Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the CloudBase Mayhem. I have a few things of housekeeping before we get into this one with Philip Zellner, who just broke the record and then broke it again, actually, after we had our talk, out in India with a couple of monster FAIs. So that's what this show is mostly about, but about Acro and a bunch of other things. But before we get to that, a couple of things housekeeping. First is the show with Russ Ogden and Nick Greece. The spring tune-up has received a ton of, a lot of praise and a lot of thanks and a lot of gratitude from folks for that one. So if you haven't checked that out, make sure you do. There's tons of great information, especially as we dive into spring flying here, where things tend to be a little rowdy and we tend to be a little bit rusty. So thanks again to those guys for so much good information.
If you haven't heard it, check it out. The other one is I got a lot of feedback from people. People on the show with Nicolay, who had the incident in Chamonix and had to throw his reserve after breaking some A-lines. And some people reached out that said that they had experienced, not on that wing, but had experienced various gear failures. And some of them could have been really heinous, especially Neil Michaelis had the XR7, you know, that had the recall a little while back. And also got kind of pinlocked. Trying to throw his reserve. And luckily that mostly worked out. But it brought to my attention that there is sometimes, not frequently, thankfully still, but there are gear failures.
And we need to be certainly on top of recalls, which do happen from time to time. And also paying attention to our gear. I mentioned in the show that one of the times I threw my reserve, the handle just popped off the bag and I was amazed. And when I sent it back, the manufacturer was amazed and claimed that it wasn't their bag, it wasn't their handle. Although it was their handle, but it wasn't the sewing job that they had done. And I had a listener ping me that said that's insane, that I didn't notice that. And yeah, I guess it is. So just confirmation that we need to be checking our gear and paying attention to things. Certainly lines are susceptible. I had a pretty wild incident.
A bunch of years ago on a wing that I'd put in the ocean quite a few times because we were doing a lot of towing with the boat and then flew in beer and had a weird parachutal incident where it was later determined that my wing was just so out of trim and because of all the salt water. So these are little things that can be big things. So there you go. Check your gear. I think the takeaways from that one are still pretty on. The other important thing is the insurance space. Something I talk about quite a bit because I think it's so important. As Miles, our editor, says, not having insurance is like flying without a reserve, which I totally agree. That space has changed pretty radically as of late. Garmin, as you know, bought out Geos a couple years ago, but Geos has still offered their insurance and their high risk benefit and they're basically very similar coverage of kind of Medjet.
But all of that insurance now is gone. When you hit your SOS, it still notifies the IERCC. They will come do the search and rescue, but the insurance side of it is gone, except for the SOS, when you hit your SOS, you can still get the high risk benefit, so it's called the same thing as it used to, but it's through Garmin and it's quite a bit more expensive, unfortunately, it's $299 a year, but there is an exclusion for paragliding and hang gliding if you hit your SOS and you're partaking in free flight, you could be up for a massive bill, so make sure this often falls outside of your standard insurance package. Because there's a search component of it. And then many people, you now can, if you have Global Rescue or another repatriation kind of service like that, you all know I'm a big fan of Global Rescue, they're fantastic and I'm constantly getting emails from people who have used them and have really good feedback about that and it's all worked out, so I think they're the best out there in terms of repatriation, getting you home if you've had something happen.
You can put in the SOS notes that you have a Global Rescue membership and in theory, the IERCC will notify Global Rescue, but this is still a massive gray zone, it depends on who you talk to at the IERCC, it depends on who you talk to at Garmin, so by far the safest bet is to still have that high risk benefit, even though it's $299 a year, that's pretty cheap insurance in case you have to use it. The other thing is that when you press your SOS. On a spot, they no longer fall under the IERCC, they're having to, I don't actually even understand, I haven't looked into it closely enough, but yet another reason to have an inReach, but spot is also kind of in a gray area now, if you hit that SOS, they're trying to use their own emergency services, so I think that's a little risky right now.
There is a flowchart on the article on my website, if you go to cloudbasemaham.com and just put in the search term insurance, you'll see the article. I've just updated everything. There are these changes and more, and then there's a flowchart at the bottom of that that kind of steps you through, if you're still confused, what you need, depending on what you're doing. There's also potentially a new insurance arm, one of the offerings from IMG, I have always recommended IMG Signature, but that hasn't covered competitions. They now have one that maybe does, and I don't have that in there yet because I'm still doing some research, but stay tuned for that.
Philip Zellner is my guest today. He's a pilot from Austria. If you're an ex-contest junkie like I am, you have seen his name pop up again and again. He's constantly breaking records. Long-time acro pilot and tandem pilot. He flies tandems all summer at his business to roll air in Austria and then takes off for the winter and just chases it, and that's what he was doing when we had this chat. He had just broken the India FAI record, 234K, a monster out in Imbir, and then two days later. Unfortunately, after we'd already recorded the show, he broke it again, went even bigger at 255. So this is all about his flight and his experiences and his signature ground spiral tip drag and just chasing it.
He had a record, I'm not sure it still stands because I think it got broken this season, but out in Valle and he has a lot of fun and goes for it pretty big and was very interesting to speak with. So enjoy this chat with Philip Zellner, who just broke. He broke the FAI record in India, and check out those previous shows, and thanks for listening. Cheers.
Philip, it's nice to be speaking to you just about 48 hours after this monster flight you just did. Congratulations, man. That was wicked to see, 235 FAI, the new record in Imbir for FAI, and what a route, man. Way out past Dharamasala and then way deep north of. Manali looked like you were well above 18 grand. It looks at a couple of times that must have been just stunning. It seems like these big ones go down in the spring, but congratulations.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, it was very nice to fly this big three angle. I mean, I did already last year, but then Kubo come and make like 500 meters more. And I know I come this year also. And. Yeah. Yeah. And I say, okay, this will be my new project this year.
Nice. You know, I was talking about this just the other night, right after you'd done it with a good friend of mine who's been following you on social media for a long time. And the first thing he wanted me to ask you is, is this all you do? Just go around and chase big flights because you've been putting down a lot of these. You've got that signature wingtip drag at the end of your flight, which obviously from your acro training, which we'll get into. But tell the audience. A little bit about your life. What are you, what are you kind of, what are you doing these days to pay for all this and, and how it seems like you're chasing it pretty hard.
Yeah. It's like, uh, more or less, I have a tandem company since five years now. And before I was also flying tandem, so when I was flying like, um, 2009, I start. And then after two years, the teacher who told me who showed me flying, he was asking me if I want to work for him. I make all the license and everything. And then I was working for him. Now I have my own company. So I'm working in the summer and in the winter time, I take my time off.
And, and, uh, the world kind of seems like your oyster. You put down a big one and in VIA, if you, do you kind of have things mapped out in the, you know, in the summer when you're not doing tandems or you, are you deciding on the, on the, your travel plans for the winter? Or you just said you've been to beer every year for maybe 10 years. Is that. Kind of just a normal stop.
Yeah, this is like, I like to fly Bivouac and for the winter or for October, it's very nice time to be here. And now I've already lots of friends here to hang out with and fly Bivouac and enjoy the life here. So it's a good place to fly in October.
It's so reliable. I've, I've only been twice and it was a long time ago, 2009 and 2011. It's a special, special place. The, the, the kernels. And I was out there with Eddie and Jim and. Yeah. And John and, and those guys, but it's a, it's, it's a very special place. Have there been any difficulties with the, the last time I was there, there was a bunch of problems getting to launch and there was a lot of kind of bureaucratic stuff going on. Is that all resolved itself?
Yeah, actually it's not a big problem anymore. I mean, last year they had some tandem accidents and then they locked for two months, the flying, but it was in the springtime. It was actually when I did the record. It was this, uh, uh, two 72 record was the second day when it was open to fly here in beer, the
flat triangle that you did. Yeah.
The flat triangle, what I did.
So you just did this, you did, did this flight, you got really tall a couple of times and two, two 35 FAI is, is there quite a bit more on the table, do you think, or is, are you guys kind of maxing it out at that size? Yeah. How good was this day? Was it pretty good?
Yeah. It was a pretty good day, but, uh, I think it should be possible more, of course.
Always, always.
Yeah. I mean, it's the performance of the glider getting better now and yeah, I think there will be more in it because, uh, I think at least you can fly nine hours now this time and I was flying eight hours. So
another hour, another 40 K 45 K or something. What was your, I didn't look at that. What was your average speed of the flight?
Yeah. Uh, it was like 30 Ks point something.
Ah, okay. So fast, but not totally screaming the w what is your, what is your philosophy on? I just know that a lot of people will be questioning or wondering this. What's your philosophy on glider choice for making these big triangles in really tall terrain? You know, I remember John Sylvester used to always say that he liked to bring it back. You know, I think back then when I was flying with him, he was flying the addict. And just because the, your, your ground speeds are so high when you're flying really tall, you know, rather than flying a, an Enzo or a CCC glider, do you think it's important to back it down a little bit?
Uh, for me, actually, I fly another Zeno because, uh, I just saw this in the beginning, you know, they make good advertisement and lots of people bought them.
Yeah. Put, put the best pilot in the, in the world on the Zeno and then go win a world cup. That was, that was pretty good.
No, and, uh, I, I know the first one was already good. And I thought like second one is also good. It's, I like it very much also.
What are you flying for a harness?
I fly the Woody, Woody Valley GTO light.
And is that what you're bivvying with too? Is it the Zeno 2 and the Woody Valley or do you kick it down to lighter gear for bivvy?
No, I do it with the same gear actually. Before I was flying with the Skywalk X-Alps, um, four. And now I got the Zeno 2, but I will see how I do with, uh, when I do all the bivouac, because still my Skywalk glider is good and yeah, uh, of course the Zeno 2 is a little bit more difficult to take off. Now you have a little bit more heavy material. So the Skywalk is a little bit easier to take off. So it makes, if it's the, the places are really tricky to take off. I think you have a little bit easier point with it.
Do you do any kind of. Internal compensation for when you're flying in higher terrain. I mean, one of the things that struck me is so amazing about beer is the, the places you can stick your glider because there's so little wind it's, it's really amazing. And as opposed to, we get, we get that kind of height here where I'm from in Sun Valley, but we're always dealing with wind. And so we really have to give ourselves a lot of margin, but is, are there, are there things you're calibrating when you're going from the Alps to beer and just in terms of safety? Risk margin, any speed, any of those kinds of things?
Yeah, of course. I mean, if you fly higher gliders, they are much more faster. You are in a, like, if you go in a bad Valley, no, there is a lot of wind and you have, of course, a little bit more safety. I feel like for myself, but, uh, I mean, it's can be also like, if you stay in the front reach, it's not that windy, but if you go back in some other valleys, like when I was flying in the Jamba Valley. Really not now in this flight, but on the, what I did last year, the two 72, that was also quite windy. It's not always like there is no wind. It's like in the springtime, it's getting picked up more. The wind picks up a little bit more. Does,
does Valley wind is Valley would more of an issue too, in, in, in beer in the spring.
Yeah. Valley wind getting much more stronger than in the autumn.
Ah, okay. Interesting. So. Uh, and, and is that just because the, the mountains are sucking harder or is that a, is that a pressure gradient kind of thing?
I think it's because of, uh, like, of course the terminals getting more strong. I know sometimes you have like 10 meters clamping, so all the air, what's comes because of the terminals goes up, all the air have to flow also. And that's why the Valley winds are stronger.
Have you flown in the Hansa Valley? Have you flown much in Pakistan as well?
No, I never flew there, but I would like to, but this is always, um, the time when I'm, when I have to work at home, I have to prepare in the, yeah, exactly for 10 times in May. I have to prepare all my work, like make advertisement and yeah, be around and prepare everything for the season. So that's why it's difficult. But of course, one time I will, uh, take my time off on this day and around this month. And then I will go there.
Yeah. That Aaron Durogati flights out there last year were just outrageous. Really makes me want to go. Well, I have Tom and those guys there. It's just, it's, you know, it's big terrain. It's beautiful.
Yeah. Everyone is telling me, Philip, you should go to Pakistan.
Before we go to your history in, in, in Acro, I just wanted to find, you know, and also before we leave this big flight that you just did, you mentioned. Three or four days before that you were going to do it, that it looked really good, you know, the weather was lining up and that you thought you had a chance and then you went and pulled it off, uh, tell, tell the, tell us about your kind of preparation, both in forecasting and mental prep and gear prep. What were, what were the things that led up to making this flight possible?
I mean, of course I always look at the weather forecast, but the weather. The weather forecast here in India is not that good than in Europe. So
there's not much, but still,
uh, uh, actually when I see it's a good weather every day, stay on the takeoff and I try, just try every
day when it's, when you have a good window.
Yeah. If you have a good window, you go and try. Otherwise you fly just another year. You don't go for this, what you make a project out of it, then you go for other distance. No.
What are you using for? Four? Casting tools.
Uh, made your blue windy windy have actually four different kinds of, and then you look all of them and then you make your own decision, which one could work on. Yeah.
Are you flying with any kind of, are there any winds talkers in that whole system? Are you flying with any kind of a, uh, wind app in the air, you know, wind alert or something windy would work too. I guess, uh, that while you're in the air, is there anything you're checking in real time?
No, not really. I just go always up a fly and check what's going to happen. And if I feel good, I just go for it. And more, the more important thing, what to have is, uh, what I really like to, I have always my tent with me, my sleeping bag, all the things that I'm like, yeah, I can survive for a couple of days. So if you have to land somewhere, then there is no problem. No, either you hike up somewhere. And then. You look for a nice takeoff again, and you could keep going or you can survive there in the backside like this.
Tell me more about just difference of what your approach between, you know, flying a big FAI in the Alps versus beer, you know, there, you know, for example, there's for a long time, there's been this really tricky thing with the in-reach, you know, because the India doesn't allow satellite devices.
And I mean, I know that. I think everybody's. Still using them as just something you don't want to have in your bag and your carry on kind of thing. But the, is there any other kind of thing you, you would re you really take that's very different because, you know, in the Alps, we've got access to care and food and water, literally everywhere. You don't really have to think about that stuff very much.
Yeah, actually I'm not making big FAI or a big, uh, flights in Europe. I had to do some, but not on the. The best is I still have to work also have to get somehow money, but, um, yeah, like, as I said, my backup is actually my bivouac gear and that you carry food for one week. I always have with me, this is the biggest backup backup, what I see. And also when I see people flying in the backside, even if it's just the next reach after, after Hanuman, just behind the takeoff, I always tell them. If I see them without flying the tent and stuff, they should put at least something now that you can survive there because the access is very difficult.
If, if, if you go more further to the glacier, then can be, if you land there, you have to hike maybe one or two days, you know? Yeah. If just something happened with the landing, you twist your ankle, you will not hike the whole day. So you need something to survive there.
Right. Yeah. You're not just a helicopter away from, from salvage out there, especially on that. Back ridges. And I mean, it's a whole different, you got, you go from front country to really deep, really quick.
Yeah. That's, I think it's the most different, uh, about Europe now. Of course in Europe, we will also find some lost places, but here they're definitely easy. Just you fly 10 kilometers back, then you're already in the lost place.
What was your, what was your cloud base on the big day and were there a lot of clouds?
Um, actually. There was not so many clouds to come when I come back from Manali, then there was some clouds and I went up to five, seven.
We flying with O2.
No, I'm not,
do you get hypoxic at all or do you feel pretty good?
No, I feel pretty good. I hike a lot here in the mountains. I love to hike as well. So I acclimatize myself always. And yeah, I fly on five, seven without problem. I think even the highest, what they did was last. Yeah. Last year was, um, 6,550, even with two harness.
Uh, how cold was it? Must've been freezing.
No, it was fucking cold.
It was very cold. Uh, like, uh, if I feel like my glider was not moving too much, uh, I released the brakes and then I just start to shake my hands all the time because. I feel many times I didn't feel my fingers. So you're also, you have to take care. No, if you don't feel it and then you put the blood inside when you turn your hands, pain that it's not starting too much pain, you know, so you do a few, you move your fingers for a few times and then you put it up again and you wait and then, yeah, everyone, I guess, have his own techniques like that.
Yeah. Oh, it's brutal. The, the, are you flying with kind of over mitts, you know, are you flying with kind of down over mitts over your gloves or, uh, what's your cold management system?
No, I got from Salewa, the big, uh, down gloves where they have the Tirol wool in it. They're pretty good.
Okay. And they're mitts, mittens?
No, I don't have mittens because, uh, I like to, I like to. Take
a wrap.
Yeah. Take a wrap on the line. So that's why that's good.
And gloves are good enough, huh? Yeah. Well, you just said not quite shaking and gloves.
Yeah. And you know, they are hard. I was trying guys.
like you said, the, the acclimatization helps, but God, I struggle with that. It can be so cold. I've, I've learned over the years too, that the more, the more I do it, you know, the more I really, really freeze my fingers, the, the, the less. Well, they work every season. You know, I've had, I've had some seasons where I've, I've gotten them so bad in the spring that, you know, it'll be three or four months later before I get the feeling back all the way to the tips of my fingers. You know, I'll have a couple in the middle that are just kind of dead from the first knuckle down.
Yeah. It hurts a lot, but yeah, this is the hard moment where you have to go through. No, it's,
it's worth it. You'll, you'll warm up eventually. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Otherwise, after you fly to the hot springs and get your fingers warm.
Yeah, there you go. Philip, give us your history a little bit. You started flying in 2009, you said?
Yeah, I started flying in 2009. And like the teacher teach me, he told me in the second day that I have a talent for that.
And yeah, then after I've. Who
was your instructor?
Otto Kahn.
Oh, okay.
He actually just died. Um, one, one months ago. Yeah.
What happened?
Yeah. He got some cancers and stuff. And if I, I mean, we know already that it will happen because he was suffering already for a couple of times. So it was not like a big surprise like this, but it was a nice guy. I liked him very much. And yeah, at least the memory stays now.
So he, he kind of recognized you had a talent.
Yeah. He told me in the second day. Philip, you have a talent for, for that, for paragliding.
Okay. And
then at the beginning, because of my friends was all flying, um, a world cup for acrobatic gliding. And then they show me and they teach me a lot, how to do and what to do. And I remember in the beginning, we was only flying straight outside to the landing and we just make a collapse, right? Collapse left, uh, front collapse and everything like this. So we was practicing in the beginning a lot with different. And
you said you did your first full stall at 50 flights after
50 flights, my first full store, even when, uh, the other guys just, um, cleaned the flying school and then they found the book and then they told me, Hey, it was written 50 after the 50 flights you did, or the 50 flight was your first full store. So I even didn't remember.
Give us a basis. What 2009, how old were you?
Um, 2009, I was 20 years old.
Okay. Okay. 32. Yeah. Maybe even when I
started in 2008, I guess it was, okay.
33. So you're 33, 34, 33,
33, 33.
Okay. And so you got into it. The, so the kind of, that was the acro the beginning where you, were you also XC flying or was it just mostly acro early on? No,
in the beginning was more the acro. Um, actually. I was only focusing on acro because I liked it. I had lots of fun when the glider was doing some strange thing above me and yeah, some people were scared, but I was always feeling comfortable and yeah, I liked this very much after like, uh, one year I was making already Helico and we was flying in Oregon. Yeah. We make a road trip with the friends there and yeah, like this, it keeps going.
We're so. So was your, your first big kind of road trip training place or Ganya, is that why you, is that why you cut pretty comfortable with training over the dirt or was it, were you already pretty comfortable with that point?
Um, actually I was already comfortable table to fly everything above the ground, just like my first full stall. I did above water, but all the other things, um, I learned above ground. How
many times have you thrown your reserve?
My throw it now five times.
Really? That's it for an, all that acro training. Just. Just five times.
Yeah. If, uh, if, uh, one time was like, I just, uh, practice if I liked the rescues or not, because I, we backed up, we backed the reserve and then we tried and one time I land hard with a normal around canopy. And then after I bought the Rogalo, because I feel like maybe this is more safe. So actually this was very funny and Otto told me. Yeah. But if. If you are not, if you're flying normal outside, you will not throw the rescue, you know, and then I click out. So I click out one of the side and then I throw the, throw the reserve. It was very funny.
Wait, wait, you, you unclipped one side before throwing the reserve?
Yeah, exactly.
How does, what, what happens? I've never seen that.
How you go down fast, very fast.
You kind
of do a base jump.
Yeah, I just remember it was just like the glider was above me was like, just like, yeah, but I was already prepared. So I had already the rescue handling the, the hands, so it's not like.
Ah, okay. Let's talk about that a little bit. What should people be flying with? Uh, should we all be using quick outs on our XC gear? What's your setup?
I fly actually with normal carabiners on the setups. Okay. Because, yeah, I mean, it's the same with acro paragliding. When you throw the rescue, mainly, I feel like you're faster if you put your glider in, then you're open and do this unclipped safety and then open the, the click outs. I feel like you're much more faster. You're just, in the moment that the rescue open, you just grab any line and you're just traveling and get everything done. You're just, in the moment that the rescue open, you just grab any line and you're just traveling and get everything done. What you can catch now.
And what about steerable versus unsteerable? Are you always using a Regalo design? You're always using a steerable?
Yeah, I was always using the steerable or mostly, especially for acro, because you sink less. So, and you land very nicely or I land a couple of times very nicely with this rescue.
What'd you think about Kevin's video in Organia?
Ah, yeah. Yeah, funny video. That was
scary. Holy moly. That was crazy.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's very scary now if you fall into the glider or even in the lines.
You ever been gift wrapped doing your infinity training and stuff? That ever happened to you?
Actually, I had a similar situation than Kevin and got the Malamons. I was flying Twisted Infinity. And then I was, it was already started to be like, I was not sure to go to flight. And then people say, ah, let's go fly. And I was like, my mind was not for flying. So I just come with sandals and I was flying Twisted Infinity. And I remember I untwist and then was like, should I exit or not? And then I went a little bit on the break and then just the glider stopped under me and I fall in the lines. And then I was not in the beginning, I was pulling the lines away to, to catch my rescue handle.
And yeah. Um, it's just, I throw the reserve and just open and I stand on the ground.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Holy shit. So same thing as Kevin, but without the video sounds like, yeah,
I mean, there is a video here from Instagram, but it's from far away and the guy stopped to film because he's not like I gonna be dead. So he stopped to record.
What was the, you have any kind of fear injury or anything? Anything from that? Was there any, was it harder to fly after that? Or did it spook you or were you just pissed at yourself?
No, not really. Because I know which mistake I make. No, it was like, you're not sure, should I exit or not? And this was the mistake. If you know what mistake you make, I always feel like, okay, this was the problem. So I think people only get scared if they don't know what is the problem. No, if you don't know what is the problem, then you get scared and you don't trust your stuff anymore.
We were talking about this in the last show that it seems like if you're kind of in a flow state, it doesn't seem to be very scary if you really, you know, because things happen so slowly when you're in flow state where you're, you understand, you know, you can visualize it as soon as it's, it's happened and two days later, immediately or anytime it's, you know exactly what happened. It doesn't seem like people suffer from fear from that. It's, it's when it's just chaos and you can't put it together.
Yeah. And the life is anyway dangerous. Yeah.
Yeah, you go
on the road, there can be many problems.
Yeah, sure. Are you, are you still training pretty serious acro these days or is it more, you more focused on XC?
No, no, I'm more focused on XC. I still like to fly, but I am not flying a lot, but maybe I thought like, maybe I will go to another place in the winter, maybe to fly acro. If I'm in Mexico, I think it's good to fly there, so next year I will bring my gear to Mexico and fly there also a little bit more acro.
Where would you do acro training in Mexico?
I think in Valle de Xupioco, eh? That is also strong. Just over the piano
there? Just get up high and over the, over the LZ out in front?
Yeah, I think so. I will try to do it that.
It'd be fun to watch. You don't see many people doing acro there.
Yeah, I know. There is not so many people flying acro. But I think it's also a good place now, I mean, you have strong thermals, so it should be possible to thermal with the acroglide a little bit high up and to somehow like yoyo flying.
I know a lot of people listening are thinking, oh, wow, man, training over the dirt, but that's, you know, that's what we hear from all the best acro pilots. They're all training over the dirt. What, what, what's the difference, what do people need to be thinking about if they're, if they're going to train over the dirt? What's the, what's the rule that you live by?
Yeah, I mean, if you practice a new maneuver, it's, I think it's much more better. You just started with the altitude, no? And as low as you get, you make the maneuvers what you already know. So, and always keep a backup that you don't do anything under a hundred meter. And then I think, or even if you're maybe in the beginning, you say 200 or something like this.
But I think this is more or less. How I started to do everything. So when Adam was trying a new maneuver, I say, okay, make it in the beginning when I have thousand meters, I start with the maneuver, what they don't know. And then after I practice with the other ones.
If you were going to get into paragliding now, or maybe, you know, your, some of your tandem clients are super excited and they want to get into flying. What would be the progression you would recommend? Because we've seen lots of pilots. Like you, you know, uh, Pal Takats an honor for Shaska and, you know, guys that start off flying a lot of acro and then switch in a sense to XC. I don't know that you see a lot the other way around, or at least I can't recall. I'm sure there are, but there, what would be the, I mean, it seems to me having the acro background must really help you to be a better XC pilot, just from the confidence level alone. But if you were going to.
You know, some young gun comes up to your school and decides, Hey, I want to become a pilot. What would you recommend? What would be the, what's the best way to become, to get to 200 hours and then a thousand hours? Let's say, yeah,
I mean, um, it helps a lot now to do in the beginning, the acro stuff, I feel like even all the good, um, XC pilots should even know how to handle a full stall. This would be even the basic for my way of thinking. Because if you have any problem, you can salute, you can make many solutions with the stalling, if you're not scared from it, you know.
Your, uh, your signature move, your kind of tail, your tip drag at the end of the flight is, is that the ground spiral? You see a lot of people mess these up. What's the best way to learn a really consistent ground spiral like you have? What's the, you know, what's the progression there? The sequence? The sequence there that you don't end up pounding it in, because that's, that's out of reach for a lot of pilots, you know, doing it consistently and well.
Yeah. In the beginning, probably it's the best to make it even more height. No, you say like, um, I will exit maybe 10 meters above just to get used to, to, to get closer to the ground. Of course, um, the next thing is if there is snowy fields would be even the best, you know, even if we get closer one time order, you get every day. You try more closer, more closer, more closer. And if something happened and you have a meter snow, that is not, not a big deal.
So I, I started working at these really pretty hard a few years back training for one of the X-Alps. I can't remember which one, but I got pretty good at the tail, you know, the, the dragging it on the ground and coming out nicely and all of that working. The thing that I never really figured out very well was the orientation from when I started it, you know? And, and, and do you know what I mean? In other words, where I would end up, you know, you see the guys Chrigel and these guys doing it over water where they're dragging their tip and they're way out over the lake and they're able to, you know, very smoothly come back in and come in over the ground. But for me, it's the orientation. Do you have a trick for that in terms of, okay, I'm starting and I'm, and I'm facing north. Is this just micro adjustments all the way down or is it, do you have kind of a, okay, this is going to take a certain amount of time and this is.
How steep it's just always something. In other words, where I come out of this, the ground spiral is, is always pretty much a mystery. So that either worked out really well or, Oh, I'm going the wrong way again. I'm going downwind instead of upwind. You know what I'm, you know what I mean?
Yeah. But, uh, this, I also have sometimes, I mean, the mentally it's works out, but sometimes, you know, sometimes it's the ground, not completely flat. Sometimes you have more window, you have more speed, you take more faster. Sometimes you just make. One turn in the spiral and then you go for a deep touch. So you have less energy. So there is, uh, many things what works together.
Yeah. Okay. More practice.
But I also cannot say a hundred percent that, uh, I've relaxed it exactly at this point.
Okay. Well, that's good to know because sometimes you watch these videos, geez, they did it perfectly again, but it's, it's good to know that even you can struggle with that kind of thing.
So did you compete in acro for a bit?
No, I was never. Okay. Competing. I'm, um, I'm not doing to, to compete. I just do it because I like to do it.
Future goals. Tell me about, you know, you've, you've, uh, you just nailed the one in beer. Do you have other places in the world where you want to chase after this next season?
No, actually, I don't know. Um, I mean, for sure there will come something new. I feel like, but, uh, I cannot tell a hundred percent. I mean, like, uh, um, To me, sounds interesting. Also, I can do near on this places to look what's going to happen there. And yeah, I will see.
Is, is, uh, is it the big flights or is it the bivvy or something else that keeps you really motivated? You know, I think, I think we all at a certain stage in our flying, you know, it's, it's nice to have goals or it's nice to have something that really keeps you intrigued. You know, you've, you've sounds like you've done a lot of everything. You've got the tandems, you've got the acro background, you've got the XC and, and, you know, these, these big FAIs, is there, you know, when you, when you think to the next five years of flying, what, what has you the most excited?
I think the most exciting to me, it's like the bivvy flying. I liked this very much. Even like, uh, last year I crossed, I crossed, um, Nepal and India, like 1,300 kilometers. And I was there completely. I was there completely alone for, um, yeah, 13 days, 12 days, 13 days. And this, I really enjoy to be there. And even if I'm alone, I really enjoy to be alone there and make my own decisions. And it seems like it's works out very well.
Yeah. I can say from, from, from doing a couple of big bivvy trips with, with other people, because of the filming with Red Bull and stuff, it's the, even though the dynamic was really, really good. It was really good with my partners. It's, it can be really difficult with other people just because the, especially in the Alaska one, there's, there's a lot more weight on the decision making, you know, if you, if no one's ever wrong. And of course you're never going to go, oh man, that was a terrible decision, but it's, you know, when you decide, okay, we're going to hike 3000 meters up through this brush and it doesn't work out and you're carrying really heavy kit. It's, you know, you just feel worse. Whereas when you're by yourself. You get to own all the decisions. And I often find that that's, you know, it's a totally different kind of experience, but it's, it's quite special.
I don't know. It's the decision-making is easier, I guess, if you're a confident person, it just, you don't have to worry about it.
Yeah, exactly. I also feel like when I go for like the big three angle or for something big, I'm like, when I'm alone there, I'm, I know what I know to do and I know my skills. So that is not a big surprise now, but if you take some other people with you or somebody is flying with you, you don't know the skills of them. And as you said, you may be not on the same level. So yeah, that's why I'm really enjoy also to fly. I mean, it's also very nice to make some people with my friends and stuff. But if I go for the big things, I always go alone.
Any big lines you're looking at for bivvies?
Yeah. As I said, you are, I think. Yeah. Do something
down the Andes?
Yeah. This would be nice, but yeah, I never know, you know. Yeah.
Antoine's done some really neat things down there. I think it seems to me the tricky part with both Chile and Argentina is just the winds, especially as you get south down into the Patagonia region. I think that can be quite, quite difficult to forecast as well as just deal with. It seems like the wind can be your, can be tricky.
Yeah. This, I heard also that in these places are lots of wind and yeah, but anyway, you have to check it out and to see if it's possible or not in the end.
Yeah. There's, there's so many, if you being, spending all this time in beer, have you ever looked at stuff in Tibet or in China?
Yeah. There will be even many nice lines, I guess, but it's very difficult with the permissions, I guess, as well. I never tried, but. I can imagine China, you know, very strict, I guess.
Yeah. I think, I think Hoffa's the guy to connect with there is, I think he's living there now and it'd be interesting to see what he thinks. How about Mongolia? Is that something you've had your eye on?
No, I never thought like, but as I said, I never, never know, you know, but the only, the thing is I only have time in the winter time. So it's means like from October. Oh yeah. Of course. Till May and the beginning of May, I have to be at home for preparing for my company for tandems.
Do you instruct too, or is it just tandems?
No, I just do tandems. I like to control by myself.
If you're on the radio and you have to trust that the people who are flying, I saw already many bad things and I'm like, oh no, I don't gonna do that.
No kidding. Orient the listener to where you're from. You said the Tyrol, but for those who don't know Austria, where is it?
Actually it's yeah, North Tyrol I live. It's close to Germany. Like if you know Munich, it's like 20 minutes, 25 minutes from Munich.
Okay. So now I'm now even, I thought I knew where it was. Now even I'm confused. I always thought the North Tyrol was, you talking like Chiemsee and the, just the North side of the Alps?
Yeah, exactly. It's North South. So it's like from Chiemsee, it's a little bit more down to the South.
Okay. A little bit more down the South. Okay. So the, kind of the Pinzgau region is your backyard. Yeah. Amazing flying highway in the Pinzgau. There's big, big stuff goes down there every year. It's a nice, nice part of the world.
Yeah. Like Zillertal is very famous valley now. If they did the 300, I think Walderdom did the first one over there.
What's your biggest FAI?
Yeah, I think it's the 230, 235 now.
That's one in
Bjerg. Yeah, that's one in Bjerg.
And that was a record, right?
Yeah. That was the record now. Yeah. I
just had Debu on the show a little while ago. He must be chomping at the bit. He wants to get out there and beat it. I love it that there's quite a gang of you pushing that part of the world pretty hard. Is it tricky coming back from Manali, coming back down South? I guess if you're staying high, you're staying out of the valley winds and everything. Is that the hardest leg?
Yeah, that's the thing. No, I started to go early there. So my first turn point was Manali. And I tried to stay high that the valley wind don't catch you. Even when I was going there, there was not much valley wind. But when I returned, because I saw some fire or there's some burning stuff down there, some smoke. And then I see it's already on. So I used to always try to stay high and keep going. Yeah.
What's the craziest thing you've ever seen in flying since you began in 2008?
Yeah. This with Kevin is quite crazy. Yeah.
That's an easy one, isn't it? That was nice.
But yeah, also, you was anyway speaking about my rescue, the harness mission. That was also nice.
Yeah. Yeah.
This was about myself. This was also very nice. I like this story. Yeah.
Yeah. Tell us the rest of it. So you un-clipped one side, you threw your reserve, then how did it all shake out from there?
Then I threw the reserve and then I un-clipped the second one and yeah, then I landed there. Oh, then it was normal. Yeah. Then it was everything normal. So it was not a big surprise. But what I was talking about was what you speak with Debo, no? Because I hear the podcast. Oh. Yeah. Is that you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Holy shit. Oh, I didn't put that together. That you were the one that landed in the river?
No, I landed not in the river. I was the guy who bring the stuff outside.
Ah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Now I got it. Now I remember. Holy cow. That was a crazy one. Holy. Holy.
I like this very much, this story.
Yeah. You know, I was just after that. Gee, I was just down in Brazil at the World Cup and somebody was more intimate with that story than we even got on the podcast and they were saying that the river was moving. He was really in a bad spot that it could have gone way worse.
Yeah. It was a very bad spot where he was and he got very lucky that he got stuck on the rock just like 10 meters before it's getting back under the ice. Whoa. And the river, when I went down there in the morning, it maybe was like one meter deep, but I went very early down there and then even when I was there for half an hour, even it's the water comes up like maybe 10, 20 centimeters more. Really? Yeah. Because of all these things is melting, you know, with the sun and yeah, it's a crazy, was very crazy place to see that somebody was landing there. I'm like, oh, luckily
they got him out with the, with the chopper there.
Amazing. I had an incident very, very, very early on. I, in fact, I think it was one of my, I don't know, the second or third XC I ever did. And the first one was maybe six kilometers. I don't even know if you get to count that, but it was down in the Dominican Republic and I got blown. I was trying to top land to pee because I had to pee so bad and I didn't really know how to top land and I didn't realize how windy it was. And I got blown over. I got blown over the back into this kind of land of the lost box Canyon. And I ended up landing in a river where surrounded by waterfalls, there was waterfalls up river for me and waterfalls down river for me. And the Canyon was so narrow that about 200 feet before I landed, I had to pull big years just to fit. It was this little tiny slot Canyon and I thought, oh, this is it. I'm dead for sure.
And I, I landed in the river and it was very slow moving and it was only six inches deep. You know? If it had been 10 feet deep, there would be no chance. And so, and then the, the exit was, was incredible. I had to throw my gear off all these waterfalls and down climb. It was amazing adventure. It was, it was, you know, and of course I'm on cloud nine cause I was alive, but I brought in my friend the next day to take photos just so she could see it. And you know, she still claimed there's no way you can't, this is an impossible place to have landed. No, I did. I promise. I promise. Nah, you didn't. I don't believe it.
It sounded, it sounded kind of like that with him. It was just an impossible place to find yourself, but he,
yeah, full on, but luckily, luckily everything goes good in the end. No.
And you got all the gear.
Yeah. Actually the glider was, uh, maybe he put 10 hours on the glider, but there was completely fucked because it was four days in the water because the weather was not good for four days. And after the four days I flew inside there and land on 4,000 and then I hiked down. I prepared, I'm been beginning, I make my camp, then I prepared everything, even a hundred meter rope with me. And there was even checking again, all the knots, what I should know and which one I have to make. And yeah, then I found that tree and the next day in the morning I went there and then I saw a tree. And then I went down with the rope and when I was down there, I was always on the rope.
I was just in case if something happened, I'm, I'm safe.
God, it was that steep.
Yeah, it was quite steep.
Wow. Amazing. That's crazy. Uh, any other, any other good stories like that from your adventures?
Um, yeah, actually when I did the two 35, when I flew to Manali, you go to the lower, we say, we call it, uh, it's actually thumbs up us. And when I crossed there, I was also like, I cannot manage to jump over this rich. I'm like, ah, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. And then you go and I just have to break my glider to break a little bit that that just can manage to go over. I was already like, should I run there? I'm like, Hey, you're stupid. You will not run on 4,000 meters. No. And then I just managed. I managed to come or jump over. I'm like, yes. And then I was screaming and it was super happy. I'm like, and now I go, I go for it, I go for it, I am on my way.
That
was, was that coming back or going out?
Uh, this was, uh, in the beginning, I think even the first one and a half hours.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. Then it was like, ah, now I'm on the way to Manali it's because this is one of the tricky points as well to go there. Especially now. This year there is more snow.
So even if you fly somewhere and more in the backside that is the valley higher, it's full of snow. So it's not working that well.
Is this, is this something you really have to pay attention to before you go for spring flying? Is the, is the snow pack, I mean, do you time your trip depending on the snow pack or do you just go and, and, and hopefully it works out?
I mean, you, anyone can not change. No. I like this year. They say, everyone said it's less snow and then I arrived and it was a one and a half week full snowing. So it's difficult to say a hundred percent there is less snow, but I thought this year would be even better. And if I was thinking to do this line, what they did last year, the 272, but just a little bit more, but, uh, for the moment that is still too much snow.
I had a question for you. We're having not a debate, but we're trying to figure out. The kind of rules that, you know, the British have posted these about what constitutes closing an FAI triangle. So there's, you know, just like here, if you just do a downwind flight, it's always going to be longer on X contest because they give you three points. And so you get more point, you know, and, and, but the way we've always measured it in, in the States is it's just purely distance from launch. So if you don't. If you don't fly it directly straight line and you get, you know, you do a bit of a curve, that curve doesn't count. It's just from launch to where you land. So the same thing with FAIs, we're trying to determine, you know, because F or X contest gives you, you know, the, the 20 % bonus for if it's within, or sorry, the 20 % bonus, they give you 1.4 for a standard FAI.
They give you 1.6, if you're within 5 % of closing, but we're trying to determine, we're trying to figure out. We're trying to come up with a, I think the Brits have it that you're, you have to close it within 400 meters. So you have to be within 400 meters of, of launch or of somewhere on the track that, you know, that that's, that's the close. And that should be what we judge in a sense, an FAI triangle by rather than what S X contest gives you. Is this something you guys are talking about? Or is it something that is, is also a debate in, in Europe? I mean, is it the same? Is it the same in Italy as it is in France? Are there different ways to, to, to score an FAI?
No, actually I've never thought that.
Yeah, actually I'm not, since last year, actually I'm in to fly these big three angles or flat ones. So I'm not to focus so much on the points. I'm just looking. Yeah. But how much the flu and I just make it a little bit bigger or just fly my own line like in Mexico, I just flew a little bit more in the south where nobody was flying. And I thought like, why is nobody going there? But it's also like most of the people, they're just focusing on the same, what already happened and they are not, yeah, I like to be more inspired by myself.
I look at the map. I see, okay, I can go there. Maybe why don't go there. And then I figure out the place, but for this FAI things, yeah, I know you, if you close it completely, you know, at the big three angle, you get the 1.6 and if you don't close it, you get 1.4 then for the flat one, you get also 1.4 and I never expect if you make a turn that you will get more because the thing is to try to fly the straightest line as possible.
Yeah. It's kind of an interesting one just because of the closing, you know, if you're, if you're flying a really big FAI, the closing cylinder that X contest gives you is really big because it's, I think it's, I think I'm pretty sure it's 5%. I might be wrong on that. And there's a, there's, it's 20 % for 1.4, I think, and 5 % for the, for the close. And it's I think also it's 5%. Yeah. And that becomes really big on, you know, in a big triangle like you did, that close could be, you know, considerably long distance from where, you know, you're, you know, you're, you, you took off. And so it's something we, that, that's you know, it, it, when you start keeping track of these things, I think it's important to just have a baseline. So it's interesting. It's, I don't think we've come up with an answer here. It's just, I've been trying to ask people just to see what they're, what they think.
Yeah.
I don't know what to say.
It doesn't really matter. It's just, it's, it's kind of an interesting, it's, it's an
interesting conversation to have. Yeah.
It's anyway, also,
also the big number. Yeah. I mean, in the end, it's just numbers, no, I mean, I like to fly big things, but in the end, sometimes you make a very small flight and even the small flight, you feel much more better than you make a record or something like this. Of
course. Yeah. The, the ascetic can be way more, way more powerful or the, the conditions can be, or the ascetic or the feeling of the day can be a lot better than the numbers.
Yeah. Like I remember last year when a friend. Or one guy flew a 200 here and I said like me, I was flying 20 kilometers with some friends and making bivouac and they say, oh, you saw somebody flew this and that, I'm like, I don't care when I just enjoy life, you know, just go for a bivouac with some friends and yeah, just come back from the hot springs and sleep in Hobbiton and it was super nice. And I was like, I don't care anyway.
Okay. Well, an impossible question. Maybe, maybe you've just answered, but let's, let's end on this, but when you close your eyes and dream at night, what's the, what's the most memorable flight? What's the one that you would, we can never repeat a flight. It's always going to be different, you know, something's going to be different about it, but what's the one flight that really keeps you coming back to the game?
Yeah, I think this is this, what I did last year, the 272, because this, you fly really on the high mountains. I went to the mountains on the back ridge and I went like almost to Kashmir to the border. And this was a very nice one. This was, yeah, even everything was so beautiful. And you see on the other Valley where the Valley goes to Keelong and Udaipur and all these places, this was just amazing to fly on this high walls and super steep and narrow valleys. And yeah. I crossed behind Manimahesh and then I come on the south side, I come back on the south side of Manimahesh.
This is a very nice route. I like this very much. But of course, if you have a problem there, you have a big problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
This was, I think this was the one that Debby talked about in the podcast, correct? Just because you were, you were pretty deep, you were, you were back on the back ridge the whole way, right?
Yeah, it was pretty deep. But yeah. I think this was very nice one. I really enjoyed it a lot. And even I was not planning, even the more funny thing is I was not planning for it. I was like, just to have my own project to say, okay, I finished to cross Nepal and India.
And actually a day before I feel not so good. So I say I will land in Bir and rest, sleep by a friend and rest there a little bit because I had a little bit headache. And then the next day I say, okay, we'll go to Kashmir to the border.
And then maybe I will sleep somewhere in Jamba Valley. And then a friend of mine, he comes, he was just here for five days. And I was like, I would like to see him. So I pushed a little bit more. And then in the end, when I jump out of Chal Supas, I was looking on my phone and I'm like, Oh, 240. 240. 141 kilometers. I'm like, what is the record to 60? I don't remember. I'm like, okay, I put some more.
So actually the last, the last, uh, maybe two hours I decide, okay, now I'll make the record.
Awesome. Oh, it just happened. That's, that's amazing. Uh, man, that, that flight, I was just imagining it's nice that I've been there, you know, so I can kind of picture it a little bit, you know, I was, I was a very new pilot when I was there. So, you know, I think, I think it was the first hundred K I ever did there was just Dharma Sala and back, but I did a really, my first bivvy ever in my life was with, with Sylvester there. We, we flew up, we launched beer and went over the back and top landed above Manali and spent the night by the fire, got encased in ice. It was freezing. And then the next day, next day flew back. And when we flew back over beer, everybody was just getting ready to launch, you know, cause we were able to launch it early. I don't know. Nine, 10 o 'clock. And boosted up and came back over and everybody was just kind of getting ready, you know?
So it was, it was the thing that planted the seed for me of just how epic bivvy I didn't, I had never done it. I didn't even have a sleeping bag. I just slept in all my stuff that I'd flown in.
Yeah. I did this also in the beginning, but then I freeze my ass off one time and then I say, okay, now I'm in pay my good stuff.
Fucking John, he, he built this fire for us and he had his tea, you know, cause he's British and he had his tea and all that stuff. And, uh, and he. He was just cozy in his nice warm bag and I, I mean, I had my down coat, I had my stuff to fly and I thought I'd be fine, but I just, my all night, all I did was just keep the fire going and just cuddle. I just circled my whole body around the fire. We just encased in ice. It was so cold. Oh God. I was freezing. Got back to beer at two o 'clock, had some lunch and went to bed.
Yeah. This is now, if you're not well prepared, I see also sometimes the people with the very sin. Yeah. A couple of days ago I did some B work flying and the hot springs and then the other guy had only the mat for the upper party, not for the feet. So I'm like, Oh, I don't have a problem that you will know it. This is the thing. What is very important for me now, if you sleep good, you fly good also in the next day.
Yeah, absolutely. The, uh, people have made so many comments about all the gear that Dave and I had on the Alaska thing. You know, that was for me. Uh, Dave left before we got done, but it was 37 days for me and I had a really, really heavy pack, but that's cause you know, you have a lot of down days. I like to, I like to enjoy life. I like food. I like podcasts. I like books. I, you know, I, I don't, yeah, I don't shy. I don't, I don't mind carrying shit. I just, I load up, I carry a lot of stuff so I'm comfortable and I can sleep well and enjoy my trip. I don't, I don't take an Alpine approach.
This is awesome. This is what I like very much. If I remember one time when I did, uh, like border cross, it's like, uh, you have 33 hours and who goes on the third furthest point and come back who wins. And I remember when I was hiking the takeoff, I prepared everything. I put music outside and then people was there and then they say, Hey, you, you bring speakers with you. I'm like, yes, I'm always flying with speakers, but you support the bring. I'm like, yeah. I don't have any support.
Of course I carry it by myself. It was like super disappointing, like, but you're carrying this big speakers.
I
think that can be, we talked about this a little bit, but I think that can be one of the more frustrating things about doing, you know, expeditions or baby trips or anything with other people is the, the. Yeah. For me, I'm never in a hurry to do them. I don't want to get to the end. I I'm not, I'm not in any desire to reach goal because I I've spent so much time just being able to do it, whether that's work or preparation or having the time to do it, or you're getting away from the family. So the last thing I want to do is race through and get done. I'm having fun. I'm having fun doing it. So if the weather's shit, I don't want to walk all day.
I do that in the ex Alps. I want to sit there and throw rocks at my shoes and be perfectly content because I'm in this beautiful place that I've worked so hard to get to. I don't want to race through it and get to the end, but inevitably when you're with, with other people, if they have, if, if they do, then that's a source of conflict, you know, it's just, yeah, anyway, that's always been a big difference with when I'm with other people doing things is they want to get it done. And I don't want to get it done. We're out there in the environment that we love. I don't want to finish.
Yeah. And even if there is a project now, if you don't finish, there is also not a big problem. No. I mean, then they come next time and try again, or, or I say you do a new one or a, like the same, they did know, um, don't do a door on Horacio did it also like, they didn't make it to the goal, what they had to know. Yeah. But they make a really nice story out of it and it looks very good. Yeah.
It's amazing. That was, that's some phenomenal flying errands too. It was just mind-blowing. It was very, I think often these, these big flights go down that way. You know, it's not necessarily, usually when I have a big flight planned, it doesn't go that way. And it's, I have a harder time than being flexible and flying the conditions rather than the plan that I've. Set for myself. I think it's often, you know, you're going to have a really big day if you just fly the sky.
Yeah. That is many times like this. Now, if you plan too much and if you too much focus on it, then it's really be not happening. No. I always feel like if you take it more easy and see, oh yeah, maybe today I will see, and then it's going to happen. No, it was like same in Mexico. I arrived there. I just remember when I drove up with Potro and then he was out. I was asking which glider you're flying and I'm like Sino 2, but then he was asking me, and do you like it? I'm like, I don't know. It's my first time I used this guy and he like, you know, there is strong condition here. No problem.
And yeah, then I missed like four, four kilometers. I missed the record in my first day in Mexico. This was very nice to me. Yeah.
The, you know, I think, I think in a sense that the. Because you were, you hadn't been there a ton. I'm sure that helped, you know, it's, it's never the, it's never the local hero that gets the records that because you pushed farther south, we're always told never to go there because of the cartels and you know, there's, there's, it gets pretty dicey on the south side of Mordor, apparently if you land. And so if you don't know that, and then you don't land, you're fine.
Yeah.
But I mean, I don't gonna go there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
That's it. Well, that's it. You're not gonna land. That's, that's the thing. There's thermals everywhere. You're not gonna land.
And I mean, I'm even thinking, even if there is all the cartels, I mean in the worst case, what they do you, I mean, I think they will not kill you, you know, I mean, and if it's like this, you're just in a bad timing in a bad place, but this can be happen everywhere. No. If you're on the road, you go somewhere, there is maybe some drunk people or there's some thing and, or somebody is driving crazy and then truck, then you're not anymore there. So if you're, I'm not thinking too much on bad things. I believe if I'm thinking of good things, good things will be happening. If I'm thinking too much, why Mexico, they will steal me. Of course, then they will steal you, you know, you attract them a little bit. Sure. This is my mind.
It's a good mindset. I like it. And a perfect place to end. Philip, thanks very much. I appreciate your time and making this happen on the other side of the world and how much longer are you there for? Are you going to get some more chances to go with this or your trip's wrapping up?
Yeah. I'm going back home in a fourth of May.
Oh, you got some time, you got plenty of time.
Yeah. A little bit. I have more. Almost a month. Oh,
excellent. Well, I'll keep an eye on you. Good luck and I hope you get some more terrific flights. Be safe over there and have fun.
Yeah. Thank you very much, Kevin. And it's nice to hear from you and yeah, maybe we'll see us one time more.
Absolutely. See you at Cloudbase, bud. That was a pleasure.
Very good. Thank you. Bye. If
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