Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. Sat down with Ellie Egger, who's from Austria, and she's in the X-Alps this year as a rookie, but it isn't her first X-Alps. She supported Simon and actually Aaron both, I didn't realize that, but in the 2017 race and supported Aaron, who was his kind of main supporter in the 2019 and 2021 race, handled all of his navigation and strategy and mapping and getting him to launches and all that kind of thing. She's a mapping expert, and that's what she studied in university. She's also a paragliding instructor and been in the game since the tender age of 14, I believe she said, and she's been at it ever since. So she's getting ready for the big show herself.
She'll be competing this year as a rookie. And so we talk about her training and preparation and what she learned from doing the support role, and talk about her kind of her mapping expertise and navigation. And she has the tech totally dialed, so that's certainly not one of her worries. But we talk about it all. We talk about competition flying, and she was down here for the Superfinal as I was. And we recorded this here in Mexico just a few hours after I had the chat with Aaron that we put up last week. And we hope you heard that one. Some great stories there. But it was a great experience. Obviously, because we're here in Mexico, there's some little bit of sound in the background. But for the most part, it wasn't too bad. So I don't think that'll cause any problems. But wonderful chat. It was a great gal. And it was fun to kind of get into her brain and dig around a little bit with this massive endeavor she's undertaking.
Please enjoy. Cheers.
Ellie, welcome to the CloudBase Mayhem Sit. And I don't get to do these live. That often. That's really kind of nice to do. But we're just wrapped up the Superfinal. Crazy 10 days of racing. And I'm sure you're excited to return home and get back to training.
Yeah, for sure. Thanks for being here. First of all, we had a really nice time here in Mexico right now. Tough flying, but I really enjoyed it. And yeah, for sure. Going back home in the snow, some ski mountaineering to do. It's really looking forward to it. And
you were just telling me before. We started. We started recording. You're near the Dachstein. You're near the start of the race. That's where you live.
Yeah, exactly. I'm living quite on the foot of the mountain at Ramseham Dachstein. Yeah. And so I'm like in the center of the mountains. It's really awesome there. So super nice site for flying, ski touring, running, hiking, biking, whatever you want to do in the mountains. It's awesome there. For
those who don't know, you know, they know the name because you're competing in the X-Alps, the biggest race in our sport by far. Coming up this year and you've supported Aaron twice. I just had him on the podcast last night. That'll be released here shortly doing the memory lane thing with Aaron and you supported him twice, which we'll talk about. But give us a brief rundown of your flying history, how you got into it and how long you've been doing it and how you got involved with Aaron and supporting and all that.
Actually, it's quite a funny story because I'm usually from the south of Austria, so from the flatlands more or less. Okay. And so it was for hiking. I
was hiking
holidays with my family and there you could do like one kind of face today. So some parading for free. And I was like, I want to do it. I want to do it. And I was 14 by that time. And so my mom said, yeah, okay, you can do it. And I, yeah, first time getting in the air completely hooked. So it was awesome. And then I was like, I want to go on. I want to go on. And mom was like, yeah, yeah, you can do whatever you want, but you have to pay for it yourself. And with 14, it's kind of a bit
of a. It's a bit
of a challenge to earn money. Can you fly at
14 in Austria? Is that, what's the legal age? Is there a legal age? Or you do it?
Yeah, you can start with 14, but you only get the license with 15 or 16. Okay. Yeah. So, but I could start it with the courses. And so actually I started to talk to the flight school owner, Anna. And I was like, I really want to do it, but I don't have money. And so she was like, okay, you can work in the office for some hours and so you can do the course. And that's how I got into paragliding. Wow. And like doing some office work and doing some flights and doing some office work. And that went on for two years until I had finalized my license. And yeah, finally now I'm still in the same flight school working as a paragliding instructor there now. Really? Yeah. Um, actually now I even got part of it. Like now I'm on the bossy side.
You're
a party owner?
Yeah. Wow, nice. So really nice. So this is your job. Yeah, it's my job. Your job is
flying. It's flying. And instructing in tandems?
Um, yeah. I don't do so much tandems. I have a license, but I think that's something the boys can do. And I enjoy mostly cross country flying and teaching. And I just started with safety trainings. So like doing the SOS. Oh, okay. Teaching. Teaching, yeah. Oh, okay. Over the
water? Over
the water. We are based in Italy at Lago di Itovo. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really nice spot. Much more quiet than Lago di Garda. Yeah. Which is just close by.
And good vertical? I haven't heard of this place.
Um, it's, you have about 700 meters above the water. Okay. So yeah, it's actually pretty nice. And the thing is you drive up by car. So you're kind of independent. You don't need the cable car or anything. Oh, wow. So that's. What's the
name of it?
Lago di Itovo.
Okay, cool. Something to put on people's map. Yeah. It's
kind of secret spot still. Yeah. But it's super beautiful. We
really lack SIV sites at home. We really lack, you know, gondolas and that kind of thing. We just don't have the infrastructure that the Alps does. But it's been tricky. We do a lot of towing
over the
water, but it's expensive and it's tricky. So it's, there's so many places in the Alps that are good. But I've done Garda a bunch, but I didn't know about this one. I'll have to check it out.
Yeah, it's pretty nice because there are less people. But yeah, you have to kind of organize with someone because you need a car or a driver. Yeah. So if you just go alone, it's easier on Garda. Or if you want to train acro and you need like, I don't know how many meters above the water. Yeah. You better go to Garda, but for normal SIV stuff, it's super nice. Have
you found by teaching it, has it helped your own SIV, your own abilities? Does that, is it really correlate?
Yeah, I think so because you have to think twice about what you're doing and how to explain it. And each time there is some new students asking a question. And so you have to think about the question kind of differently. And so you have to rethink about stuff and aerodynamics. And of course, you have to do all the maneuvers by yourself to be able to teach them. Yeah. And so it's a good training because yeah, with the competition gliders, which I normally fly, you get kind of lazy of doing all this stuff. Yeah, no deal. So in the last two years, we started doing SOS for the German and the Austrian league for the competition pilots. And so I did the same stuff. So you're doing it on
CCC wings. Yeah.
So that's pretty nice. And it keeps you good in the air. So it keeps
you tuned up. Yeah. We needed that this couple of weeks. Yeah. Never seen so many hits.
Never before. I mean, there was a lot of,
there was an incredible amount of mid-airs, but also just a lot of hits. Oh
yeah. I
saw one of the, one of the NIVIAC pilots going out to the Menarche's the other day. I've never seen a hit like this. His wing just turned into a rope.
Did you see that one? I did the orange one. I saw an orange one. It was the same, you know, the
team one that we all had, the green and pink, the teal and pink, whatever. And I can't remember, it wasn't Tanguy or Tim. I don't know which, I don't know who it was, but the glider just, he was right in front of me coming out of a thermal and his glider just turned into a rope. And then when it came back out, it was like a bomb going off. It was just, holy smokes. I'm going over here. But yeah, there was a bunch of them. Yeah. Usually, I don't, we don't see that much with the CCC gliders these days. I don't, you know, in comps, you just don't see people taking hits that much. But man, there was a lot this week. Oh
yeah. It was quite rough air. But I was actually happy that we are all like pretty good pilots. Yeah. Because if you imagine a lower pilot's level here, that could have ended worse. So.
Yeah, you know, I come down here for the Menarche every year and there have been Menarches where there are a lot of incidents. Yeah. Mostly reserves. Thankfully, very few. Yeah. If people were thorough, they're usually okay. But there have been comps here that are just mayhem.
Yeah. And
it was really like that. It was just interesting to have it like that in a Superfinal. Yeah. I wouldn't have expected that.
No. Me neither. But it was like, on the first few days, I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on here? Like, there's a rescue. There's a rescue. So, okay. I just don't want to get a problem in here. Totally.
Totally.
So, instructing. Is that, will you keep that going right up until the X-Alps? Or are you going to cut and just do nothing but training? You've got a lot of experience with the X-Alps supporting Erin a couple of times. I'm curious about your path between now and the race.
Actually, like training, I will do side to working. Yeah. Because as I'm kind of self-employed, it's more easy to manage. And I'll spend a couple of weeks down at ETHEL for teaching. So, it's always like. More or less four and a half days teaching and then two and a half days off. Yeah. So, but even on these days, I can do like the basic training I'm doing right now. So, like, I have like a full plan, training plan. Do
you have a trainer?
Yeah, my supporter. She studied sports. And so, she made me like a full plan. And now she's like, each day I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do. She's like, why didn't you do that?
It's nice to have somebody to be accountable to, isn't it? Yeah. And
I was like, you have to do nothing today.
That's most of the time what she's saying. Because I'm like, I want
to do
something. And then the weather is good and I just want to run up the mountain. And it's like rest day.
Rest is really, I've learned that. Rest and recovery are really important. More than you think. You always think, I need to be doing more. I need to be doing more. But you got to give your body a chance to recover too. Yeah. How did you tie? Well, before we get to that, how long have you been flying comps? So
I started competing in 2016. And so in December 2016, I went down to Portugal in South Africa for the Western Cape Open. And that was like my first big international competition, 100 pilots and so many good ones, you know. And that's where I met Aaron. Because I was down there with Paul Guschlbauer and Stefan Gruber. And they were competing at the next edition, 2017 in Ixhops. And so they were kind of talking to Aaron and I was just, yeah. Were
you thinking back then that something that you might want to do someday or not yet? That wasn't really on your radar.
Not yet. It was too far away. Like kind of all these guys flying so good and so far on the mountain. And I was just like happy to kind of get to know them and to learn and stuff. And yeah, just being there, I kind of got in contact with Aaron. And so like on windy days, one day they took off. And Aaron had like crazy. A lot of ballast. And so he was kind of lifted and sit back on his ass more or less. And he couldn't stand up again. And that's how I got in touch because I just helped him up. And so down at the landing, he was like thanking me. And actually at this time, I think we ended up drinking some gin tonics. Nice.
And so we kind of got in touch. And yeah, it kind of ended up being a really nice friendship. Cool. So as I was in Graz studying at that time, I also was in contact with Simon O 'Connor. And he asked me if I would help him with navigation in 2017. And so actually it was two and a half times in Ixhaz. And that's how Aaron found out that I'm kind of good with navigation. So that's why he asked me in 2019. Or actually he asked me in 2018 if I want to be his supporter in the next edition. Because
he's not very technical. He would say that about himself.
No.
I wouldn't really call him technical. No.
He's more fly by the seat of your pants kind of guy.
Yeah. No, he's a lot of things, but he's not the tech guy. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would say that first about himself as well. Yeah, let's talk about that mapping. That's what you studied in school?
At university. Yeah. I was a programming school. So technical college for programming first. And that's what I went to school for. And then at university, I studied geodesy. It's like the science of measuring the earth. Okay. So everything about GPS, navigation systems, and maps, software. So whatever you can need for planning a route. I'd love to
see your Ooty screen. What do you fly with?
I don't know. I actually don't have an Ooty. Now on the drift, I wouldn't even know where to put it.
It fits. I've got my Ooty in my phone. Okay. It works like portrait mode. Yeah, I didn't think it was going to work, but it works. Yeah, portrait mode. It works pretty good. Okay. So what do you use?
I'm mostly flying with XCTrack.
Okay. Just phone?
Just phone.
Oh, okay. And
I have like a XTracer. Yeah. Very well.
Okay. And you have a camera? Yeah. I still like to see your screens.
It's fascinating. So things like, I would imagine things like airspace are just a piece of cake for you. Natural. Natural. Yeah. Oh, that would be a dream. It's not natural for me at all. I'm always just, oh, terrified. I find the side, I've never hit airspace in any of the X-Alps and a lot of people do, but I use Fly Sky High because I'm an Apple, but the side view is a miracle.
Yeah. You
know, where you can see it. Yeah.
But that's really nice. But
until I had that.
That's what they did really nice with XCTrack. Yeah. With the side view and you know, okay, if I just, I can just glide under and so that's pretty, pretty nice. And yeah, but I know what you're talking about because during the last X-Alps, I was like calling Aaron on the phone, hey, you need to go right because there's airspace just in front of you.
Yeah. He had some dicey, that one by three meters. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was either, and then the second one when he hit where it was basically, okay, I go in the trees or I hit the airspace. Yeah.
And actually that was, you couldn't say it's my fault because actually the airspace isn't there because like from the legal side, this airspace can't go into the mountain.
That was tough.
And so it was me telling him, you were right as long as you're staying close to the mountain and when you're lower than 600. And
we've all flown underneath that airspace. I've flown that LeCarno airspace so many times like that. You just stay 50 meters off the deck and then you squared under it and that's how it works. Yeah. And that's really frustrating. Yeah.
That's how it is. And the problem was that I knew it because I'm like instructor and I'm working a lot with airspaces and I didn't even think about that. It just made a TMA running straight into the mountain because that's illegal. Yeah. It's incredibly
frustrating. Yeah. So
when Aaron was like on the phone saying, yeah, Ellie, I hit the airspace. I was like, no way. How can you? You stayed in the mountain. And so I was like, all right, send me the track log. I'll take a look at it. And so I checked the track log and he was really like swooping through the trees as low as kind of possible. And it was like, okay, but you're within these 300 meters above ground, so no problem. And I told to the race director and he was like, yeah, that's a good argument. And so I thought, or we thought, okay, it's fine. And so the next day we got the penalty. So that was really frustrating. That'd
be heartbreaking. Yeah. And so you supported him in 2017, which he had the bad wheel and was having a great race, but had to bail out. I remember hiking up with you guys. It was a day two after the first terrible day with all the rain and then day two. Yeah. On
, I think he hiked up. Yeah. And he was
barely moving. Yeah.
He was like in kind of crutches more or less. So I was actually at that time in Simon's team, but there were like so many people going up with Simon. So I was like, is it all right if I just go with Aaron? They were like, okay, just go. And that's how I ended up going up with Aaron. And at that time I was not really fit. So it was really kind of frustrating because he was like jumping more or less on one leg and he was still faster than me.
Note to self, get more fit for the next one.
So that's where I recognize. Wow, he's a beast uphill. He is. The steeper, the faster he gets. Yeah.
He's really a gazelle going up hills. It's remarkable. So what are your kind of main things you can share with the audience about being a supporter after doing those two? Imagine one would be that you must feel much more prepared going in as an athlete, just knowing how that world works. Because as we know, doing the race, it's so critical. The team is incredibly critical. Yeah. And they're kind of behind the scenes, but they're doing a lot of the work, a lot of the really exhausting work, at least in my experience. But for me, I don't really see what they do that much. So I know they're doing a lot because I land and boom, this is where you're going next.
And I don't have to make any decisions. But what was your role? How did it evolve over the two different campaigns? And what were the... Give us some highlights and low time. What are the really great things about it and what are the hard things about it?
Yeah. So as you said, the supporters are the men or girls behind the scenes you never see. But you really shouldn't underestimate the work they're doing because it's one thing that everything is prepared when the athletes is back on the ground, like dry shoes and new clothes and something to eat, something to drink, a place to sleep where you can stay without being pushed away by the police. Yeah. And you can't just sit there and watch the police in the night. But what I mostly did for Aaron, I was like the navigation guy and I did all the weather checks and like searching for takeoffs and planning all the routes and like optimizing, okay, it's better to go up there, fly there, top landing again, hike up again. So he more or less got like, as soon as he landed, he was working with the Suunto watch and I just had the app on my phone.
So I uploaded the track on my phone. Yeah. Yeah. And
then he decided
to sync it and he had it on the watch like instant. Yeah. So it was. So you were planning
the next launch. You would look at the weather and the wind and the aspect and okay, it's going to take him an hour and a half. So we want to be west facing whatever in the afternoon and you'd find all that.
Yeah, exactly. Go here. Okay. Exactly. And I also made like a plan for the day with like flying wise. So where are the good thermals, which route we're going to take or what he's going to take. And like more or less. I would say the brain behind so that he just can focus on flying and running. Yeah. And more or less I'm doing the decisions. And so that was actually one of the best moments in 2019 when he was just landed. I said it like, okay, that's your next track. Just go. And he started, he just went and like after, I don't know, 45 minutes he called me and I was like, everything's all right. Yeah. Yeah. I just understood why I'm going there. It's a super nice plan.
So that was one of my highlights during the race because it just, it just did it. He didn't even think about it. And then after one hour he realized why he was doing what he was just doing. Right. So it must
be really rewarding to, you know, you must be under a lot of stress and you know, a lot of pressure and to put them in the right spot at the right time and that kind of thing. And when it works, it must be a thing of beauty, you know, he's crushing, you know, I'm sure there's a lot. I mean, I distinctly remember, you know, the, there, there have been many times in our campaigns where we're just having one and the, and it's so fun. And then, you know, the last race we had the worst start ever and nothing was going right for the first three days. And you start to feel, at least for me, I started feeling not bad for myself, but bad for the team because it wasn't their fault. They weren't making bad decisions. It was just, I wasn't putting it together. And, uh, and it was just, oh, it's heartbreaking.
Yeah. When it just doesn't go right, but it doesn't go right for everybody at some point.
Sooner or later, you're going to make mistakes and that's what you, if you have a good team, I think that's what you can minimize quite a bit. Um, if like the, the team works and it's, that's like a bunch of individuals put together on their, um, yeah, small space in the camper for two, three weeks, uh, under pressure. So you have to find people who, who stand it. Because it's one thing to be out having fun together, but if you have to work together and yeah, as you said, there are times where nothing's working out. So everyone is getting grumpy and you have like a cow and the other one is like, needs everything to be ordered like properly. So it's kind of, you have to take care of whom you're going to take in the team.
So
talk about that. How do you, how do you have your team put together already?
More or less. Yes. And how
did you decide? How did that pan out?
Um, actually like my main supporter, Nadine, she's like a really good friend of mine and we kind of take the same way. So we don't need to talk much. We know what the other is thinking about. So that's. And
she's a pilot or not? Yeah.
Yeah. She, she's a pilot. She did a couple of hike and fly races, uh, in Austria and yeah, it's just always super lot of fun for her. So will
she be charged with what you were doing for Erin?
Uh. Or will you,
will you do that on your own? Cause you're. No, I
can't like during the race, I, I want to think as less as possible because I think the more tired you get, the worse the decisions are you're taking. So I want to have someone taking this part for me. So it's mostly going to be Nadine and probably also Julian from, um, he's, I'm still working on it. But he's, uh, he said he's may, might help me from home. Like doing the navigation. Doing words? Um, no, during the, the exhalts. Ah, yeah. Yeah. I'm doing like the navigation stuff and checking the weather and stuff from home. So that will be pretty nice, but let's see how it works out. So we're going to test it in, at Easter.
Yeah. We do like a four days exhalts simulation kind of thing.
And he'll feed you the weather and that kind of thing and the route and all. Oh, interesting. But do it from home. Yeah. Okay. In the, in the race too. He wouldn't be with you. Yeah. Okay.
Now that's the plan for now, but let's see how it works out. So
will it just be you and Nadine as a team?
Ah, no, it's going to be another, um, girl, Verena. She's like osteopath and a really good friend of Nadine. So actually, um, I don't know her that well. Yeah. But she's, Nadine said she is really nice. And actually the supporters are the ones spending time with each other. I'm somber anyway. Yeah,
that's true.
So that was. They have
to get along. They have to get along. They
have to get along. And that's what I asked Nadine that she picks, um, someone she won't have in the team. So it works well. Yeah. And the other one is, uh, I worked with him together on Aaron's team, uh, before, uh, Daniele, um, he's coming as well. And Marius, he's going to be like the supporter of the supporters, like taking care that they have everything they need.
And how did you decide this year? Okay. Now I want to do it. What was the, what was the kind of, was there a. Stepping stone that you wanted to reach when you were, when you were supporting Aaron, were you, you know, in the 2017 race where you starting to think about it or not till the 2019 race and where you, how, how did you decide, okay, I've cleared whatever hurdles there are to, I think I'm ready. I think I can do this.
I started thinking about competing in, already in 2017, like being there on the road and seeing like, Hey, that's actually what I want to do. I want to hike, I want to race. I want to want to fly and want to push my limits. And. Then when Aaron asked me in 2017, I was like, I'm ready. And then in 2018, I was kind of like, uh, really proud of myself that I got asked to be Aaron's supporter. And so that was pretty nice for 2019. And after 2019, like during the race, I was like, okay, in 2021, I'm going to sign up. And then we like hiked the night, the last night on 2019, uh, addition up to PAU. And on this hike, Aaron asked me if I going to do it again in 2021. And I was like, of course I will do it. Yeah. And I was like, I had other plans, but now I said yes.
So I'm going to do it again. As a supporter. As a supporter. Okay. Yeah. So that's how I ended up doing it again in 2021. And after 2021, we decided that, um, we're not going to do it again together. So that was for me. So all right now it's my time.
Yeah. Okay. And tell me your age.
I'm 27.
27. So you started flying 14, uh, got more into it when you got your license. Yeah.
And then
in 2016, you started competing. Yeah. Okay. So you've been at it 10 plus years, 12 years. Um, what's the most, what's the one thing about the race that makes you the most nervous right now? Wind. Wind.
Yeah. Um, because I'm a very lightweight person and that's the thing I'm most worried about that. Um, because I'm always on the weight when I'm flying, uh, on this, uh, hiking trail. It's always a little bit hard to fly stuff. Yeah. And if it gets windy, it's just the worst you can do being too light on your glider and not enough speed. And, and it can get windy. You've been to Wallis, so. It can get
very windy.
Yeah. So that's the thing I'm most afraid of. Okay. Um, but let's see, I'm talking with Niebuhr and we're trying to find a solution for that problem.
Yeah. So
let's see.
The climber's awful nice.
Ah, he is. But. It's an amazing wind. I'm half the climber too now. Yeah. But it's, yeah, the weight range is 60 to 78 and with the hike and fly equipment, I'm at 62. Really?
Yeah. You are tiny. Yeah. That's tough.
Yeah. Just a little leaf in
the wind.
So yeah, my supporters have to be fit because probably they're going to have to carry some ballast for me. Yeah. Even during the race. So that's, but actually that's, uh, drawing contra there as well because, oh yeah, it's better to fly even heavier, but during exhaust, you sometimes have to land the places you better don't have any ballast at all. Yeah. So. And
a lot of the, a lot of the real moves are made on the really light days. Yeah. And that's, so it can kind of work out in your favor that you can, you can load up when you need it when it's gnarly and on, but when it's, when it's just those little milky stuff in the morning where you're just trying to get an extra couple K, it's nice to just be light and go. Yeah. So yeah. Well, we'll see. I know Gaspar was way underweight on his, one of his campaigns. And I remember him being really nervous about it and in some ways it didn't work so well, but in other ways it really did. So in the end it was kind of, it's all right.
Um, but nothing else, not results or what are your, what are your goals for the race?
I want to be able to come home and say that I did a good race
and you just gave it your all. Yeah.
And I want to still kind of be friends with my supporters so that we have a good race all together. Yeah. Of course it's, it's a race. I'm a competition person, so I also wouldn't fly in the Superfinal. So of course I'm going to do my best, but the focus isn't on the wrestle. It's more about my own personal goal to do a good race and be every day at night to be able to say, okay, today I did my best and I did the best. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. with them kind of near the end. And just all of us had, you know, we were all on cloud nine, we were in Monaco and it was amazing. And, but then hearing all this was a real kind of, I went to bed that night thinking, well, we are really insane people. And you saw it firsthand in 2017, the weather was pretty wild. And then 2019 was lovely. There was not much risk there, but, and then 2021 was awful and really scary. Does, I've heard you're a very aggressive pilot and you're, you don't, it doesn't seem to bother you too much, but it's, how much does that weigh on you?
For sure. It's something on my mind because that was after 2021 race with Aaron, I was like kind of healed from doing X-offs because during that race, I don't know if Aaron told you, but it was like 13 times. He almost killed me. He said that last
night. Yeah. I properly wrecked. I mean, I properly crashed seven times. Wow. You know what I mean? Not, they were all, two of them were, they could have gone, I could have been dead. Two of them were really scary crashes. And the other ones were just stupid, you know, fly on the wall, kind of blown, you know, just funny, but I'm like a wombat. I can hit really hard. I'm okay. But you know, the Alps is soft grass. And if, you know, if it'd been, it would have been something different, but two of them were properly just, what are you doing? It's crazy.
No, that was for sure. The hardest thing for me or being a supporter, because like you're down there and you know, okay, you send him up there and of course you say, okay, you have to take the decision if you take off or not, but then you're sitting down there in the car and you know, okay, now he's in the air and it's probably not safe anymore. And so even after the race, I woke up like in the middle of the night, dreaming of thunderstorms coming. I was able to reach Aaron. And so like nightmares, um, because it was really like a lot of tension. How do you
guys communicate? Is it just WhatsApp or something?
Um, WhatsApp or, um, on the phone directly. Okay. Just call him. Just call him. And I think I'll go with Zello. It's like a, Zello is great. Zello is great. That's what we use. Yeah. I think that works pretty well because you, you don't want to take another radio and another stuff you have to charge and it's just plain yes. So, and actually each year the mobile connection is getting better and better. So, and in case I'm really kind of in the, in the hole, I can do like offline navigation. I think I'll, I'll manage that one. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the, uh, do you, I mean, I imagine because you were a sport, I didn't know it was three. So Simon and Aaron the first year and then, and then Aaron for two. At this point, you know, I'm rewinding my own clock to, you know, getting ready to go to the race. I'm ready for the 2015 race on my own. I had done no other hike and fly races. And so I was really feeling very overwhelmed about December about now. Are you, are you, are you pretty calm about it? I
think I'm kind of calm about it because I've seen it with Aaron, like inside out. Um, so I pretty know exactly what's going to happen in the race and like all the preparation, it's, it doesn't change so much being a supporter or an athlete for me. Because I did a lot of work with Aaron in the preparation time as well. And so I kind of have like my schemes. Okay. I need the camper. I need the maps. I need the, which apps I need on the phone, uh, like the watch, what kind of equipment I need. It's like kind of known stuff, which can be good, but you also have to take care. You don't forget something because it's so natural.
But yeah. Have you done
a lot about their hike and fly racing? Zero. Zero. Yeah. Like
competing myself. I did none. Yeah. Because I signed up for a couple of them, but then Corona kicked in and then it was just bad timing because like when I was an X ops, it was an X ops. And then, um, my focus was on competitions, like normal comp flying and yeah, sometimes in summer I have to work as a paragliding instructor as well. So that really doesn't go so well with competitions because when it's good weather, you should be working. So, but yeah. So. As an athlete, I did not, but yeah, I was supporting enough.
It do you think, uh, is there any, let me try to ask this tactfully, but I'm not even sure exactly what I'm trying to say, but, uh, is, is there any different pressure on you because you're female and it's been, you know, there, there hasn't been a history of many females in the race, you know, that they're more lately and it's, people are thrilled with it. But it's, um, do you think there's any, do you put any more pressure on because you're female or do you think there is any other outside pressure?
Um, I think there's the media and like social, uh, stuff. They're more interested in you when you're a girl. Um, because it's like kind of fancy outsider or whatever. Um, so I think that's the more pressure you have as a girl. And yeah, to be honest, as a girl, you are kind of disadvantage. Uh, physically that's, you have to be honest with that one. You can train as much as you want to. I'll never be able to keep up with Aaron, uh, for example, um, not
many people can actually
a good point.
It doesn't matter how much I train. There's no way. Yeah.
I think I can keep up with a couple of guys. Um, but there will always be someone stronger. And I think it's important that you don't pressure yourself too much because I think that's. Can get dangerous if you try to do more than your couple block. And so, yeah, maybe there's more pressure on his girls because everyone is looking at us. And actually there are a lot of people like cheering for us, but there are also some voices. Why don't you do that? You're a girl. You won't be able to finish it anyway. Really? Yeah. And so people have said
that or feel that both
really both. And then it's, I'm kind of. I'm
kind of
the person. So if you tell me it's not going to be possible, I'll show you that I'll do it. I
like it. I like it. Show you.
And so that's kind of motivates me to kind of show people that they're wrong.
But yeah, I'm curious how, how it will be because I have the feeling that girls are more social, even with sharing, even like now for the race. Like, you know, I'm not sure.
I like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people
like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping
people like
helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like
helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people whatever and for me it's just natural to share everything
interesting yeah i had never thought about that because it is a world of you know what is it 90 something to less than 10 the the percentage is incredible in this sport and it's uh it's i've often been fascinated with just the
the emotional world that you that females must have to deal with in this sport when it just comes to that it's just it's just a numbers thing you know it must be interesting for students to show up and have a female instructor in a sport that's just so dominated by men yeah
but it's actually pretty funny because um our school we have mostly female instructors wow yeah so it's like um for example it's like malena and me johanna karen um we are just girls teaching there so it's pretty funny when our students go somewhere else then and they're like there are no girls anywhere
and because they're so used to here there are a lot of girls in our schools and so that's actually pretty nice it's
pretty how many females are in this one it's there's five uh
five who are like yeah
yeah yeah
i listened anyway so
maybe four four
yeah it's it's kinga uh lobby and me which
is great i i had a really uh interesting in some ways scary experience with laurie and fish she and i and and ogi were battling it out to not get eliminated and she sent me this beautiful text i was coming off the grins grimsel that morning i had completely taken a completely different route after uh getting to fish and it was that really strong north fern day that creagle went forever and uh i couldn't get back into the rind so i ended up landing down by and walking all the way grimsel the wrong way and so i made a bad move and but i couldn't do anything the wind was so strong i couldn't get north that day or sorry south that day at all and but that was the day or it was two days after laurie had had her incident in laramouse and she sent me a text and she said you it's you don't have to race anymore i'm gonna stop and uh i mean keep racing but you don't have to worry about the elimination i'm gonna stop uh thank you because i was really stressed about it and and i caught up with her and i gave her this big hug and she had this look on her face that i'll never forget it was just
destroyed you know she was i mean you could tell there was a lot of relief because she was done but she was also just
you know whatever happened in laramouse must have been terrifying yeah
i was actually uh kind of surprised when i saw her on the list i was too i wasn't expecting that after like being in the race and
i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die
and seeing her like so tough girl tough girl yeah tough
girl i mean it's it's so it's fascinating that it it everything depends on the weather you know the in in 2015 we had so much wind and so many accidents and so many retirements and and uh and but it wasn't terrible weather it was just windy it was just a lot of wind and then in 2019 you could launch anywhere it was just didn't matter i mean it was still hard weather we had that awful heat wave at the end
the first day it was super hot like aaron said it was
a sauna you know it was miserable but it wasn't dangerous you could launch anywhere so wind is your enemy i
think so yeah
yeah um will you try to do some hike and fly racing before the little ones before the this race uh
no i'll do some uh trade around competitions okay uh are you a
runner i
hate running but i like running i like running i like running i like running i like running i like running i like running i like hiking
but that's something you can train i i was told so yes yes
and you said you like ski touring yeah
i think
that's a perfect training yeah and you're in a good spot to do it let's talk about instructing so you've been instructor now for how long uh
i started in 2014 oh
a long time yeah um for people listening that are you know inspired to maybe someday be an x helps pilot or just to be a good pilot or to come to a Superfinal that kind of thing what would you tell them as an instructor what would what would be the things to focus on or things that you've seen that you know the couple of mistakes that people should avoid uh
i think that it's important that people um stick to themselves and that they um stay in their own learning zone that it's it's good to not always just stay at their comfort zone if you always just stay on the same mountain turmoiling for three hours you won't learn anything so you have to to go a step ahead but i think it's important that people don't do two steps at once like that they get uh afraid that they get fear because it's just too much for them so one step after the other and always uh stay curious and try new things and other stuff and it's not only about going for cross country flying but it's also going to sa way doing some maneuvers and just get more confident and
just do it and it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just wherever
the wing is because that makes you um more uh calm in the air when it's getting bumpy because you know you'll have it under control and so you you just expand your comfort zone and so you get better and better and i think one of the most important things is to talk to people because you can learn so much from other pilots or uh friends or whatever and if you ask kindly nicely there is no one saying no i won't tell you that no not in this sport no this doesn't exist no it doesn't and i think that's really important just to to share and to talk and about good things and also about bad things because everyone had these warm comments where you were shaking when you landed but it helps if you talk about it if you analyze what was going on and also think about how you could have done it better or how you will do it better the next time
so that's for me i'm doing it personally all the time when i okay i had a huge collapse what could i have done better okay not eating a bar in the middle of a five meters thermal okay that's something i can improve
that one seems pretty easy check that box
but i needed to try it twice to really understand it's not a good idea okay
it didn't work out once you tried again yeah yeah it goes has has um instructing i've always thought that i've always really stayed away from making paragliding my job in a sense i mean i guess the podcast is a job but you know tandems are instructing because i'm always afraid that it would zap me have a little bit of the passion for it when it becomes my work has that ever been an issue for you i
was thinking about that a lot actually because i was thinking the same like my initial plan was okay i'm doing like the university doing my master's and then i'm going to work as a geometer or uh civil engineer and just work for fun in the flight school for some uh days or weeks in the year but then i kind of work more and more in the flight school and i'm not only teaching i'm also doing all the administrative stuff and working in the shop and also doing like the human resources and all these organizational stuff and i realized that i really like it that's also seeing the stuff in behind that it's not just the one guy standing out there telling you what to do but all this stuff you need to have before and to make plans okay how to get better how to teach better how um to improve the skills of your students but also of your teachers because of course you're doing your instructor license and you have to like do this every two years you have to do some some courses to to kind of uh hold your license but i think that's often not enough you really have to keep on working on yourself that you stay up to date because the gliders are changing the
methods of teaching are changing and that's something really interesting for me to try to have a good quality in our school Will Gadd
told me something one time that's really stuck with me over the years that he you know famous ice climber and famous pilot and just an incredible athlete but he he told me that the when he sees people coming to this sport from other flow sports so free riding and skateboarding and surfing you know he doesn't worry about them too much but when you come from non-really flow sports see climbing or uh you know when you're not when you're not dealing with a lot of gravity I guess climbing you are dealing with gravity but anyway flow sports versus non-floss first that he he worries more about them as an instructor do you do you have people come it strikes me that
you're active especially in the Alps when you see it everywhere that people must come to your school who don't really have any athletic background and or any experience with flow sports you know they might be more academics and just want to go flying is it do you have people come that just really shouldn't be in the sport and do you does that do they just naturally go away from it or can you help steer that ship um
most of the time they find out by themselves in the first few days that it's not really their sport but pretty
quick like that normally
yes because that's the good thing about paragliding and you have at first on this training hill you have to walk up on your own and that's where you're kind of selecting no but actually it's maybe once a year there's someone you have to tell maybe it's better you don't go along with the sport but that's always pretty pretty difficult because I personally think that paragliding is getting safer and safer and instead in the right environment I think you can do it pretty safe but there are some people who shouldn't go flying on their own because they have no clue about the weather they don't know where to go they
just don't know anything but I think that's good that there are like flight schools offering like even like these trips going I don't know Italy um or in our place where we have just like two instructors even with pilots having the license but they're only flying once a year so you can't expect them to to be like really aware of all the situation so i think it's good that there are like these kind of scenarios where they can go flying have fun but in a safe environment where someone tells them okay you can fly now now you wait and so there it's i think always difficult because it's paragliding isn't like biking if you don't do it for five years you really have to start again from the beginning and you have to do it on a regular basis to be safe that's for me for me personally what i think so yeah when people say okay i'm starting paragliding like the first one two years they are mostly really really really good but i think it's a little bit more difficult because it's a little bit more really motivated but then often there comes this kind of uh no maybe i'll do something with my girlfriend or i've got kids or whatever and then you realize that they're flying less and less and that's the point where i think it's um become dangerous because they think okay i'm a pilot i have a license i i know what to do but if you don't keep on yeah you gotta keep your skills sharp how
do you feel about competitions with your students do you encourage them how do you feel about competitions in general i
think competition is a perfect playground to learn uh really really fast uh a lot of stuff but for sure you have to be able to turmoil at first before you can go to a competition because it has to be automatic that you find the tunnel and so you have the capacity to check what the others are doing and see the others in the tunnel and because that's what we are doing here we are not concentrating on our instrument where's the best climb we're concentrating okay where are the others and we're not concentrating on the best climb we're concentrating on the best climb we're not concentrating on the best climb we're focusing on the best climb we're focusing on the best climb we're trying not to bump into them and see them okay i don't know this orange light over there has a better lift so i'm going there but if you're still focused on okay which break do i need to yeah yeah yeah it's a little
overwhelming yeah
so that's what i meant with one step uh after each other because if you have like a pilot who did like his first two hours flight he's not ready for doing a competition but on the competitions you learn incredibly well and you learn a lot of
easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier
easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier hardens up yeah yeah i've never i've never used so much full bar ever i mean i i've done a lot of not a lot but i've done you know quite a few world cups and high level comps in the last few years and you use a lot of bar but this one was phenomenal yeah we were using a lot of bar full bar there was never any three quarters bar no full bar or your thermal ink that's it
yeah and yeah and then we were back at communication because if you have like 100 pilots or 50 pilots on the smaller competitions there are so many sources of information and because that's really cool about paragliding because you never stop learning and you can be like like or a beast or a philip um being on the podium here they are still like trying to improve themselves still all the time they still don't have it
totally figured out yeah they never they never will nobody ever will and
that's maybe the most fascinating thing for me in in the sport but yeah competitions i think it's really good for everyone to do some competitions um because yeah the whole environment and getting faster being like really efficient in the tunnel if you're always alone you always think that you're good um because you don't see anyone else i'm
crushing it
yeah if you're the only one you'll always be the first so yeah right and but there you have get like a mirror and all right very eye-opening yeah and that's always funny if like cross country pilots come to the first competition and they think like yeah i am oh
i'm good i'm good i'm the local hero at home yes yeah we'll see enjoy eating that dirt day after day and it still happens after all these years it's amazing um so my last article i do this column every other month for Cross Country Magazine that i kind of wrote a letter to the rookies i don't know if you saw that but uh you're not really a rookie in my mind because you've done the supporter role now um but what would you say you rattled off a whole bunch of things we were last time with you know the technology and the maps and the van and this charging and the equipment and all that but you've got a microphone here and some of the rookies will no doubt listen to this show what would you tell them in terms of uh you know a little checklist of things that you've done in the past and what would you tell them in terms of things that are you know these things are really important to be thinking about now in december you know you've got six months i
think it's pretty good if you have like your flying equipment ready pretty soon that you have like glider harness the whole setup you use at the race um as soon as possible so you feel like 100 comfortable with it and you know it inside out and the more you you fly the more you use it the better and it's the same with all the navigational aids you're using you have to do it before you have to train it even like planning a route or um like bombing out somewhere and somehow figure out to how to go home
nothing will go as planned never
so that you have to you just have to do before and it doesn't matter if you um if your supporters at the end of the world that's it doesn't matter if he's in the car 10k
it's the same because you have to communicate on on the phone or um via internet and sending routes or whatever and that's really important that both sides know like the supporter and the athlete what the other one needs and what he wants and how to do it and you
said simulation too i think that was really really key for us we always did you know a two-day simulation in january a three-day in february and we added them up they were mostly physical simulations so they were you know ben would try to model the output of the race you know and if it wasn't flyable it was just okay we'll try to do this amount of vertical and this amount of road walking and this amount in the pool it didn't have to be what we were doing you know but just the the basically the the steps that you're imagining you're doing and then you know the food the getting up at the the 4 30 going to bed at 11 the whole thing um for me it's always always a ton of mobility uh but we we we then learned that the really important thing too was to you know he would give me the route like he would in the race he lives three states away you know like you said you could totally do that but you know i think for me the my real achilles heel is like erin's is the tech stuff so my team's really good at it and they've learned that okay gavin can only process this and here's the route that's it and i know how to load it and i know how to follow an arrow and it all works you know but
yeah so that's really good advice other stuff what about body maintenance foot maintenance that kind of thing uh
i have like a nutrition expert i'm working together with
okay um
so we kind of changed my whole nutrition system which didn't work out here in mexico to be honest because like you'll
eat meat here
just tacos damn
good tacos damn
good tacos now but even here i lost two kilos again so i have to work it out are you
really trying to stay as heavy as you can yeah yeah yeah
and if i can gain a little weight it would be good because anyway during the race you will lose it yeah uh and you will need some uh spare fat to burn it and uh no but i'm not planning on getting fat i'm planning on getting stronger
what what is there a kind of nutritional you know are you kind of going keto or what what what is the what is the nutritional program uh
it's more or less i have like a plan of how many calories i should eat and how much percentage it should be proteins and minerals and carbohydrates and um yeah all this stuff and like with more or less three main wheels and two snacks in between so basically at home i feel like i'm eating all day long
um so yeah that's that's bad
like helping people like helping
people like helping people like
helping people like helping people like helping people
like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping
people like
helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like
helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping people like helping But that's what we want to do over Easter.
You must, you know, having been in the sport, you know the area quite well. But what do you think about Kriegel's whole thing that, you know, I was fascinated. I was sitting next to him at one of the media events in 2015 before the race. And I had been over there for two months scouting. Because I'm not from the Alps. I felt like I really needed to. And he said, oh, yeah, I don't scout anything. And I thought, really? You know, I know you live here, but you don't go scout other parts of the course? And he said, because if I go in May and scout it, it's so different. It has no relevance. And I don't want to have any preconceptions. And the other big one was in 2017, he asked 10 of us. You know, we'd all scouted Garda. And he asked 10 people, how do you fly to Garda? And we all said, you can't. It's impossible.
You know, there's too much wind. The wind comes up the lake, and you're not going to be able to do it. And he did. And he just said, well, I don't want to hear that. And he figured it out. I think he and Gaspar were the only two that flew in there. So what do you think about that?
I'm kind of doing the same. I'm not planning to scout anything. Because once I've seen quite
a bit.
You're just going to do sections
of the race for the simulation.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This section we will do. But as Krieger said, the problem is if you think, okay, I did the simulation there. I went on this takeoff. You're kind of spoiled. And you tend to do the same thing, even if the weather situation is completely different. Yeah. And so you're, I think, not so open. You're not really open-minded. Yeah. That's my thing. What I really do a lot is beforehand, with Google Earth, checking out different options and going through different ways how to do it. Okay, where's the pass? Could we do it hiking-wise or not? Because that's something I learned during the races. You always need to have a backup plan.
If anything goes wrong, you need to be... Yeah. Somewhere where you... Flexible. Yeah. Where you can do something. Especially when you're crossing the main ridge. I don't know if you checked Aaron's route, but it was always somewhere where there would have been a pile. In case he would have bombed, he could have just walked on the other side. Sure. Yeah. Because that's the worst thing which could happen, that you're on one side and then you have to do a real big detour. All
the way around.
So that's something I learned in the races. Yeah. And I
learned that
this is just important because you never know. And what I also learned is just stick to the straight line. Yeah. The long, big detours, it's not really worth it. It's better to just go straight, hike a bit and go straight again than to do a big detour because normally it takes so much longer.
So something that I have really struggled with, especially after 2015, because 2015, I didn't really know what I was getting into. Yeah. I had
a lot of fun and I just
had fun and I ended up having the right headspace for it because it was really windy and I like it when it's rough. I tend to do better when it's rough. And then doing well, I got to Monaco and it went way better than we expected. Then I went into the future races with more, okay, I'm going to do this well, which was the opposite of what I think my mind needed to cling onto. And so I got more, I don't know, tense, stressed, whatever. I had expectations rather than none other than just having fun. And one of the things that became, and I trained this, every year I always trained to not think, when I was in training, I was always training to fly the day, not the course line, to just
do what we do as XC pilots. But then in the race, I always felt like my vision would narrow as the days went on because the obvious move is not on course line. It's over here. That's going to work. As an XC pilot, that's totally what I would do. But if I blow that, that's going to add 20K on the ground and it starts to just compress. And I would, at times I would still pull it off, but at many times I would become a less pilot, you know, and I would be more pessimistic than I would typically be because I had this worry of, but do you think about that? Are you training that in any kind of way? Or is it just a matter of, you know,
I'd like to do it like I'm in competitions that I set myself like a task. And like, even here we have like this 60Ks of way we could choose. And that's how I want to do in the X-Alps to still have some options, but kind of have like an arrow to follow. This is the mission. This is the mission they want to go. Because even here, you saw there are so many ways you can do it. And normally the fastest is more strategic. You can go the better. And of course, if it's like just cheddar and shitty, like it was in yesterday's task, like all the right side looked like really shitty to me. So I stayed on the left going closer to the takeoff back up. So worked fine.
So for sure, you need to have this open minded. But like Simon, for example, you shouldn't tell him any route because that's completely fucking him up in the head. Interesting. Yeah. And so for me, that's pretty interesting to see like Simon doing the best thing is he doesn't know anything about the route. He just figures his own way. And Aaron like, okay, you're going from this terminal to this terminal to this terminal to this terminal. So it's completely the opposite the way to fly. And so I think I'm somewhere in the middle between those.
It must have been interesting supporting Simon because he really he came onto the scene. I mean, at least from my perspective. People didn't know who he was. And man, he's gifted at that race. He's just done so well every year. He's really and he just he's always kind of chipper and happy. And he's the
nicest person I know in the race. Yeah, very nice guy. And he's so friendly with his supporters. Yeah. He can't be mad on anyone.
That's a nice characteristic. So before this will be the last question before every X-Alps that I've been a part of in the race week, you know, leading up to the prologue and the race week. The talk of the camp is always this is the year Kregel's going down. This is the year Kregel's going down. And I always go, yeah, no chance of that. And I still think there's no chance of that. But if you I mean, obviously, everyone can be beat, including Chrigel. I don't know how, but, you know, he's won eight. He's going his ninth. To me, he's stronger than he's ever been. But do you think he can get taken down? And if so, by whom?
As you said, there is always something can go wrong in Kregel's race or someone else's race. So you'll never know. There's no guarantee. But I think there are a couple of strong people in the race who could keep up with him. I don't know if it's going to be Maxime again chasing him or if Aaron is doing a great race or Simon or I don't know, maybe one of the rookies. We will see.
But yeah, it's. XOX is for me mostly about decision making. And Chrigel is just flipping impressive on doing the right move at the right time. And as long as we are not able to be on this level, it will be hard catching him.
Yes, I agree. I was always the one in the camp going, yeah, I don't think so.
He is impressive and he's getting so much better. I mean, the thing for me at my age, I just turned 50. For me, the last couple of races were really good. I don't have a chance to stay with these younger. They're just getting better and better and better. But so is Chrigel. And he just turned 40, I think. So, I mean, he is getting older, of course, as we all are. But he's impressive. It's been really fun to watch him. Just this domination is incredible. Yeah, he's
always like this one step ahead of the others. And I think one of his biggest advantages is his mental strength. Yeah.
Professionalism. Yeah.
I mean, this whole thing, it's all oriented around winning all the time for everything. And it's very impressive. Ellie, that was great. Thanks for sharing your time. We had a big night last night. So, I know we're barely hanging on here with this coffee. But thank you so much. Good luck in your preparation. And I can't wait to watch you race this June.
Thank you. Good luck.
See you next time. Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.