Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of Cloudbase Mayhem. We are keeping the X-Alps streak alive here with my good friend Hansa Rizmanek, who raced in five Red Bull X-Alps starting in 2007 and ending in 2015, which was my first. So we take a walk and a fly down memory lane in this one with Hansa. He's now a meteorologist, has a couple kids, he's been doing these really cool tandem bivvies with his elder son. You've heard I had him and his son, Martín, on the show a little while back. They had another big adventure, big bowl bib adventure in the Alps this summer, which was really cool to watch. Had some good weather and flew the long ways.
But yeah, we go. We go back and hear about the highs and lows of his X-Alps exploits, being third in 2009 and all kinds, all the crazy things that happens in that race. So I think you're really going to enjoy it. Before we get to it, as we dive into December here, I've got a few things of housekeeping, some fun stuff. The first is fear injuries. We're getting ready to launch.
And a kindle. A cool version of my book, Advanced Paragliding. This is one of the chapters in the book. And we want to sample and find out more about fear injuries, how it affects performance and a bunch of other things. So if you have had one, can you jump on my website and just zip me an email and we'll reach out and dive into these a little bit more. Something we want to understand more. Because it's a term, I think, that's maybe not very well understood. It's certainly something we've been talking about the last couple of years on the show. I don't know if it came from paragliding or something else. So trying to find out more.
The other is, many of you got back to me about this podcast. It was one of our most popular with Hannah Jane Williams. She's a postdoctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute. And she was studying soaring birds. And had some pretty interesting take on that. But she was not a pilot. And so has been reaching out to pilots and using them to grab data and putting instruments on paragliders to grab data to help them understand more how birds do and why they do what they do. So the podcast was great. It was very educational. I loved it. And Hannah just reached out to me very recently and wanted me to tell all of you that they have a podcast. And I think it's going to be a spot for a paragliding based PhD position that they've just opened up.
I'll read you this. The position will investigate all the things we spoke about in the podcast. But with the main question being how valuable is social information for flight performance and competitive paragliding flight. So she wanted me to share that with all of you. It's going to suit a pilot with an interest in modeling, computational biology, or aerodynamics. So if you think that's something you might be interested in, there's a link in the show notes for this one. Just go to the website and pull up this podcast with Hansa. And there's a link there and you can find out all about it. And you can find out where to reach out to Hannah and see if this would suit you. Sounds really cool. And finally, I'm leaving in a couple days for the Superfinal.
But I wanted to let you all know about a very cool mission that Miguel and I are working on. And his team at Elastolombre is putting together up in Nayarit right after the Superfinal. So I think the Superfinal wraps the 17th. On the 18th, we're going to get on a plane in Tucumán, which is just outside of Valle, and fly up to Nayarit. It's up by Puerto Vallarta. And fly the mountains there. It looks really cool. And apparently the flying is epic. There's been some cool videos going around on that. And some pretty heavy hitters going up there to fly. So it's a three-day kind of thing. It's a kind of semi-comp just to explore the area and see if this is something that would work for us for future endeavors down there. So another sister site to Valle where we could do big comps.
So they will supply retrieve. I don't know if retrieve, but at least getting up to the launch. And so this isn't a fully organized thing, but it's something that if you're down in Valle or you're down in Mexico this December, definitely take a look at that. And I will also have the link for that in the show notes for this one. I'll be posting that on social media and stuff as well. But the area is called Nayarit. The flying looks epic. And you know Miguel and his team, they put on a good show. It'll be awesome. So it'll be a lot of fun. So if you can make it, come on down and join us. And enjoy the show with Anza. This was a special talk. Hope you like it. Cheers.
Anza, great to have you back on the show. We had some technical difficulties. I know tech is not your thing. You're a meteorologist and a pilot. So that was kind of a funny reminder. We're going to be talking about tech in this show going back to 2007. I remember in the 2015 one, you were still using your little Garmin thing. So I think you're more a fan of paper maps than all the tech. But good to have you back, bud. And good to see you here. And I'm excited to talk some X-OPS with you with another one of our guests. I'm going to be talking about the first one right around the corner.
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And it's going to be, I think, in the last eight editions, the first one that neither of us are in. That's right. That's right. We'll both be spectators.
Yeah. We've been there for quite a bit more than a decade if you put the two of us together. Yeah. Okay. So that's my first question. How hard was it for you to watch your first one and not be in it? So how hard was 2017? Because I'm right around the corner for the first one. I'm already starting to get a little bit jumpy about that.
You know, it was not too bad. But thanks to, like, we've had a podcast about this. But basically when I started doing my own little private X-OPS with my son on the tandem with Martin, we were doing our very first one. He was eight. And we were doing our very first one as the 2017 was going on. So we occasionally checked into it but actually didn't follow it religiously. Like, we didn't. I wasn't, you know, at work behind a computer and frantically checking the X-OPS. Just
frothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually a good inspiration for me watching you and Martin doing these awesome trips. I mean, I know we're going to get you guys back on for this last one because you guys covered some serious ground. That was amazing. But your first one was when he was eight and my little one's five. And she just got her tandem kit from Nate. You know, he's not flying much. So he just got her harness actually yesterday. So I'm prepping, man. I'm going to be following in your footsteps.
Excellent. Excellent. Yeah. It's an awesome. It's just, you know, I can't.
It's the one thing I look forward to most every year now is doing these hike and fly self-supported trips with Martin.
Would you ever go back to the X-OPS? Or has this filled the void?
I think it's. Momentarily filled the void. But, you know, inspired me tremendously was seeing Ogi Sawa in his 60s. I know. And that just blew my mind, you know, because I remember. I remember he had a disqualification. It might have been 2013, I believe, maybe even 2011. And he had an airspace violation super early on. And and he was. Yeah, he was 50 or just over 50 at that time. And I was like, oh, man, that's got to be his last one. He got disqualified on day two. I think it was I think it was 2011. There was they got really strict for a moment there where they disqualified with no no no buffer. No
time penalty years. Yeah.
And it was super cool to see him back. And it was good to see him kind of still hang in there. You know, like, I mean, he was obviously, you know, wasn't top 10, but he was I mean, he was for a 60 year old. That's that's amazing. Oh,
dude. I mean, he and I were going neck and neck trying not to get eliminated at the end. And in this last one with with my terrible start and he was making some cool moves. And, you know, we had a you know, I haven't communicated verbally very much with Ogie, but he at the party afterwards, he gave me this look. And I think I gave the one back that was, you know, because the weather in this last one was really sketch. And and we gave these look of each other. That was just, man, I appreciate you. You know, it was kind of both ways. It was, man, we were fighting back there and we both hung in there. So it was that was pretty cool.
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it could be something as a, you know, when I'm in my early 60s, I might throw in an application and see if they take me. If they do, I'd love to do it again. But it's
pretty fun. As you know, it's well, and we're going to we're going to talk about the fun that you had. And maybe some of the not fun that you had. But we've we've done a few of these narrow, a couple of them now with Tom and Chrigel. And so, you know, the theme we talked about this before we started recording. But we're going to rewind the clock to actually the first one that I watched as well was 2007. I remember that very vividly. I was up in Scotland sailing and we were trying to get Internet wherever we could. And we had clients on board who had no idea what the race was all about. And Bruce and I were just, oh, we got a while. We go. We sail for an hour. We got to get back to the X. I'll see what's going on. Watch Hansa and Nate. And but take us back to 2007. You're going to share with us and you can certainly share more, but share with us a memory that maybe wasn't captured in the race or that, you know, that wasn't in a story or one of the videos.
But something that still strikes you now is is just a really good moment and maybe a not so good moment. You know, we tend to remember not so good moments as good moments. Anyway, as time goes by. But tell us about 2007.
Yeah. 2000 2007.
Definitely. I always start with the worst. The worst was just the evening before the race. I had a dinner and and after that dinner, I went with a few of the pilots and Dave, my supporter, went and we just had a dinner. And I remember like walking back. And across this bridge, I already got sick and I threw up dinner. I was like, oh, man, there goes 13 euros. I just threw up.
And that was that was the least of it, because then that night, you know, I got I got the runs and I didn't sleep very much. And in the morning, it was just both those things continued. And it was this was the last where last of the X ops where they didn't start out of Salzburg. We actually. Took a gondola about halfway up the Dachstein. And then there was it was and, you know, we were based out of near Hallstatt and took the gondola halfway up halfway up the Dachstein and then at about a thousand meters to hike up. So for most people, I was like an hour, hour and 20 minutes. And I started there was a little bit of a downhill hit the bottom of downhill and threw up again.
And then it was just a crawl because I had like no energy in me. It was. It was, you know, I never know exactly what happened, but I think something I ate the day before. And, you know, my most likely culprit is a piece of salami that floated in the cooler and some melted ice water and maybe picked up something off the side of the cooler. Maybe and maybe maybe it was something totally different. But I picked up some pretty bad bug. And, you know, I was like, this this is terrible. I was basically, you know. As I was hiking up, crawling up to the Dachstein, I was watching these guys fly. I was feeling really strong wind flushing down, down the Dachstein, the side I was walking up.
And I got there. It was too windy. And basically they arranged for the race doctor to come up there, check me out and that I could spend the night at the Dachstein lift station. And the oddest thing, Gavin, is there was there's one other guy. From Turkey.
So had everyone else already flown? Everybody
flew off. Yeah, I was basically. Well, I wasn't quite last because there was this guy from Turkey who wasn't sick, but he he got in there on flying merits. But he was terribly out of shape because he he got up there maybe just slightly ahead of me. And it was by the time he got up there, it was too strong for him to fly. So him and I, we called it the Dachstein prison because it was basically a locker room. We got told we could stay there. I know the I remember the race doctor came and I think gave me a little bit of IV drip just to get get me a little bit rehydrated. But yeah, we then in the morning it was locked. So we couldn't get out till I think six or seven in the morning. And then it was blown over, blown from the north.
So the wrong way. So had to hike down 2000 meters. So everybody got off that day. And. Basically had to hike down for 2000 meters. You know, then towards the end of the day, saw the race doctor again. But he was saying, you know, I can give you antibiotics, but I have to ask you to quit the race. I said, well, I'm not. No, don't give me antibiotics. I'm not going to quit the race. I'm happy to be in it. And there's a slight chance, slight chance that I might not be eliminated because there's this this Turkish guy who's not moving very much here. I kind of passed him that day, despite him not being sick. And I think he basically after 23 kilometers, he he gave it up.
I mean, I think so. Just call it. Just called it. Yeah. But he might have. I forget. I forget exactly whether he called it or whether he stayed in place. I don't know if that was being respected at the time, but kind of long story short on that is slowly, slowly. I started getting better, but it was like four days before I was feeling myself again. Luckily, on day three. I managed to have a good flight. It was only 50 kilometers, but it was the longest flight of that whole X-Alps. But it put me seventh from last, which gave me a little bit of a buffer, not by much, but a little bit of a buffer from being eliminated because that was the so bad. You know, back in 07, we we could hike all night every night.
There was no sleep rule, no rest rule. But it was the first year that the elimination. Rule was instituted. So they didn't have that before. They didn't have that before. Yeah, they didn't have that in 03 and 05. So this was the first the first year that got that got put in there. But luckily, yeah, I got that third day saved me. And it was it was, you know, it was one we had to cross the crest of the Alps from the north to the south. And I remember just it was one of those days where the you not get. You know, you're not getting to the top of the mountain. You're not getting much above crest level. So you kind of, you know, thrumble up to a spot where I'm just kind of sloshing against it. And there's just wind kind of sloshing, sloshing, sloshing. And finally, in one of those sloshes that you got a little bit of lift, was able to clear the crest and then get into the other valley.
And then, you know, continue with the flight that down the valley and gotten across the crest. And it was just it was that was kind of the felt like a really miraculous save. So that's that was. That was really crux is what
a way to start. Oh, it's to be so sick after all the preparation and training. And I had to ask you. So, I mean, this was just the third one. How big of a deal was it in 2007? Was it was it still, you know, the biggest thing going in paragliding? Were you just blown away to be in it and be there? Or was it still kind of a budding race? I
think. I think it was transitioning to something really big. I mean, I actually didn't get in on the first round, but they kept like six sort of wild cards or standbys. And it was Nate got in on the first one. And I was like, OK, well, you know, he didn't. He'd done the Dolomite Man or some one of those races. So he had done something else in Aspen. So he'd done a few little things where, you know, his name was there. And, you know, who, you know, really got me in there. I mean, obviously, Dave, Dave Henning was trying hard to get me in. But he asked Will Gadd to write me a short little thing of support. And in back in the day in Sun Valley, we see the Dave Bridges Memorial race.
And, you know, I raced Will Gadd up a Baldy and kind of that. Will Gadd at least kind of knew of me a little bit. And he he just wrote a really short, like three sentence recommendation email that said it'd be it'd be fun in the kind of sick way to watch. Nate Hansen go at it. You know, just to have to keep people from the Valley. Yeah. And so, yes, it was when I got in there, that was that was super cool to to get in there. Then then I had this scary incident where I thought I'd be eliminated immediately, which would have been just embarrassing and just just bummer. And yeah, but then it got you know, then it got better this race. Gavin, they didn't have. Well, it was there wasn't like a maximum number of days. There was it was two days after the first guy makes it.
Alex Hoffer took 14 days to make it was only eight hundred and fifty kilometers. So just tells you how this how the speed has changed. Right. So eight hundred fifty kilometers. Alex Hoffer makes it in 14 days. So on day 15, he's finishing, which is giving everybody 16 days to to to keep, you know, to on day 17 is when it's done. So this was the longest one I've been in. I mean, more than half a month. And yeah, that's great. So it allowed for a tremendous amount of time to sort of claw my way back through through the through the pack. I mean, I was, you know, and Nate had a super good start.
I remember just passing through places like near the Marmolada. It was like, man, Nate was here 48 hours ago. Just like. No way I'm ever going to catch Nate. And then by day 14 or 15, I managed to catch up to him. And we we hiked in the evening and then Lisa made us some breakfast burritos in the morning and we hiked, you know, through about noon the next day.
And unfortunately, his feet were really in bad shape. Man.
His stories of his feet. He took his his shoes and cut them up, cut the sides of them open. Yeah. His feet could hang out of them. Oh, they sounded mangled like mine in 2015. Yeah.
Yeah. So so, you know, despite him having such a strong start, he was, you know, he by then he was suffering pretty bad. So I had to I had to leave him and keep keep pushing and manage to. Yeah. So I almost catch up to early Jessup. So I, you know, squeaked into the top 10. I got into ninth that year after all that. So it was. Golly. But it was it was, you know, it was a very it didn't seem so super crazy paced. I mean, there was there was the you know, we marched long into the night. We kind of the habit was you go to about 1 a.m.
until you're just super tired and then wake up with the sun at six-ish. So you're kind of doing these five-hour nights. But somehow it was a little, you know, it was kind of, at least waking up with the sun was really good that year. And we really had no idea what we were doing. I mean, we came in there blind. I came in there with a map that was like 1,000 to 500,000. It was a roadmap. You know, I'd Google Earth flown over the place a bunch of times. I was like, wow, there's a lot of mountains from here to there. You know, I tried to print a few print screens of like what I saw on the Google Maps on the route. But I was really like, I'm just going to have to kind of take this day by day and see what happens.
And
I mean, in the air, you weren't flying with a phone that had the next waypoints and all the stuff like we do now. Were you just?
I don't know where
I am. I'll just
fly that way. We had
waypoints on some big, you know, I think it was one of those fly techs. They gave us something that we had to carry, a big brick. And that gave us the waypoints. We had our phone, but basically. But
those are the main waypoints. Those are just the. Oh,
yeah. Oh, yeah. We had no waypoints for the day or anything like that. I mean, it was a whole different approach. I mean, and to me, it seemed much a much more organic approach where once, you know, once I got off launch, there was my game. There was like no communication with the supporter. Like the flying part of it was totally my my game. The only thing once I remember calling Dave on a it was a really good day approaching the Swiss border. And I called him from the air because I just really needed to check if there was like a ceiling over us because it was just such a good day. We're getting to like three thousand eight hundred. And I just need to know, is there a ceiling? Like, am I going to get? Some kind of violation, even though it didn't look like an area where they told us about airspace.
But I just I just wanted to ask. So that's the only time I like that we communicated in the air.
That's amazing. That's amazing.
Yeah. And
I mean, for navigation on the ground, is it literally just the one to five hundred thousand map you had? You didn't have. Were you using any kind of GPS? We
had an E-TREX, like an E-TREX GPS. We had we had some maps. So we kind of gathered along the way. I mean, we had a little bit of a budget. So like they would kind of sprint ahead and just buy the local topo maps. And but it was, you know, we're just going to make make and do as best as we could. Luckily, the Sion area, since there was the there's the Eiger turn point that, you know, the way I approached Martini and all that was from north of that whole valley. That's got the Sion airspace. So I didn't have to I didn't have to really deal with with that. I just kind of came in from this diagonal.
If you kind of took a diagonal from the Eiger towards Martini, I approached that and just landed up. You know, it was still in the evening. It wasn't super crazy. I've had some much crazier landings like past Martini. This was upwind of Martini. And it was, of course, windy, but it wasn't it wasn't a crazy. Crazy windy situation there that that time.
Is there a moment or a day or something in the race that just still really stands out as a really special moment that, you know, a kind of a high of the race?
I think of that of that particular race. Like I said, the the first the first actually my first.
Proper proper exceed flight on day three. But that really that really saved it because that, you know, it was that made her break. It would have would have would have, you know, if that hadn't succeeded, I might have been facing elimination possibly. So it was it was, you know, and I launched and I started thinking out, of course. So it made it extra sketchy. I was like, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man. I got you know how it is. You get you get below. You get. You get the grassy areas up top. You get the grassy areas in the bottom. But you got that middle tree layer and there's not always landing areas there. So once you drop below that, you're kind of committed to the valley. If you if you keep sinking. And it was. Yeah, just got into the tree area, but managed to thermal out and and and save it.
So that was.
I think that's still the most of the crux. Yeah. What really stands out? I mean, you know, a lot of days that's all days hiking, hiking through the rain, hiking, you know, just hiking late, late into the night.
But but that I think that stands out, stands out the most.
You know, this is going off topic here a little bit, but I don't think this will hold true this year now because the numbers will shift. But. Last time I did a check, maybe this was twenty seventeen or maybe twenty nineteen. It was over half of the U.S.
Participants in the ex-Alps that had ever done it had kind of cut their teeth in Sun Valley. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.
I wouldn't be surprised. Really
fascinating. You know, it's you and Nate to start off with. But, you know, we'll get, you know. Uh. Uh, you know, myself, Mitch, Willie, I'm missing some pretty remarkable. That's kind of an interesting thing. Yeah.
Well, Sun Valley's been such a great training ground. I mean, I think I always said if you get comfortable with Sun Valley, you know, you're you're you're ready for the Owens. And that's the Owens is only, I think, thing like that is one one layer or one level higher. Yeah. Obviously, Midsomer Owens. But, you know, I think I think, you know, once once you get comfortable with Sun Valley, a lot of stuff doesn't seem that that crazy anymore.
That's true.
OK, so two thousand nine is a really good one for you. Third place. Take us back to 2009. Yeah.
So 2009. So I still had Dave Henning as a supporter. Um. So we knew a little bit better what you know what we're getting into. I think we had more than more than two pairs of shoes this time.
We had some, you know, see with.
Let's start with the worst on that one. The worst. So we got off to a good start. We got off to a good start. I think by the time we got to the Marmolada area.
I was. I would say I was. Um.
Almost maybe fifth, fourth, fifth. It was really looking good. And then. Um. Before getting to Bolzano. Um.
Yeah, no, no, I know what actually it was a two part deal. It was the first. The first day was not very good. And we all flew just a little bit off the guys Berg. Side hill landed. Uh. And then all ran downhill because everybody's excited. Toma's running and we're all okay. We're going to run with Toma for a while. And I just did not. That was not good for my knees because I hadn't trained, uh, to, you know, do a lot of running with that backpack. So I, I, I damaged my knees a bit and there was really starting that that damage was starting to kick in by about day four. And even though I was. Doing pretty well around fourth there approaching Bolzano. It was too.
Um. Too windy to fly down into there. And. So it was about a, I don't know, 4,000 foot or 1200 meter hike down into Bolzano. And I hiked it all backwards. Cause my knees were hurting, but it did. They didn't, they didn't hurt hiking backwards. So, so, so that, that was like the remedy there. But what. What I didn't realize I was doing with that move is I was totally screwing up my Achilles heel. So then I got my Achilles heel that starts getting all swelled up. Uh, and it could basically tendonitis of the Achilles and there I had to slow down a bit and suddenly I moved me on back to like 10th.
And it was only thanks to some really good flights after that, that I was able to, um, kind of stay back in the game. The knees. The knees got better on their own. The Achilles tendon kind of kept, kept bugging. The race doctor would put shots of some homeopathic injections in there. They didn't, you know, maybe helped a little bit, but, uh, um, yeah, it was, it was, uh, thanks to the flying. I think that it, that I, that it helped, um, you know, help me stay up front. And then, um, it was a year, a lot of people had, you know. A lot of people had, uh, airspace violations. Um, uh, I think helmet from Austria had, uh, got eliminated.
Toma might've gotten eliminated. I think that was, that was a year they were being very, very strict. Uh, there was, I think it was all or nothing. It was, I think there wasn't a penalty, just elimination. And so I would say at least two or three or maybe more got eliminated. And then Martin Miller, Martin Miller from Switzerland. Who would have won in own Oh seven. Had he not, um, had a violation, but back in Oh seven, they gave a 48 hour penalty. Uh, so he had a, uh, you know, he hit the EC on airspace and that let Alex, Alex Hoffer get first and Toma second in Oh seven. Martin Miller was doing well, but then he flew into some box Canyon and broke his ankle.
Yeah. Yeah. And so he was out and I know if he'd stayed in there, uh, I'm like nine, 9 % certain he would have passed me at some point. Cause he sometimes, sometimes you'd have a little bit of a rough start, but then the second half, he would often just jet through the, uh, you know, standings and all the way up top. So, so he's come back. Yeah. So he's, he's real good, but he got, he got hurt. And then towards the end. Yeah. Maybe day eight or nine, it was suddenly appearing that, you know, it was this race for third, but we, Aiden toast from England.
Um, and, and, and myself and Aiden was a runner, not quite of the caliber of Toma, but he was definitely a runner. He could run. And, uh, so we had this back and forth over a few days where he would always outrun me and then I would outfly him. And then he would outrun me. And we had this long one where we both ended up, you know, we tagged the Matterhorn the same morning. We both kind of more or less flew out, uh, in towards Wisp, uh, that afternoon. And then we had 80 kilometers up the Valley towards Martini and he just started running. And I was like, Oh man. And I just walked and I walked all night and I walked into Martini the next, you know, the next morning and up to the, uh, that the Col de Fourclas that's above Martini.
And. Luckily it was too windy. Cause I was just not having pulled that all night. I was like, I was not feeling any flying shape at all. And I think, um, Aiden gotten himself a little bit further towards Chamonix, but he was having a hard time with the wind and wasn't able to fly. But somehow in the meantime, that, that day that, uh, we were both not able to fly. Evgeny from Russia managed to kind of hop, uh, just hop, hop over. From, uh, Zermatt area, like towards Verbier and just stay deeper in there and was able to, um, to make his way. And suddenly we were all more or less in the Chamonix area and the evening, two days prior to the, to the last day.
Cause this was, you know, Maurer had made it. Uh, so we had, uh, those, you know, the 48 hours. And we're all within about five kilometers of each other. And then the next morning we'd start making our own moves. Um, and.
Uh, you know, we, I remember hiking, uh, and basically hiking up to cloud base. That was just too early. So taking a little nap, which, which is always a good thing in the X-Alps. If you're, if you're on launch early and you can manage to take a nap, which by the end, like the final day, you're going to be able to take a nap. Like days, like days, you know, nine, 10, 11, it doesn't take much to, you know, any, any stopping of movement basically has you napping. Like it doesn't take, it's, it's not an effort to take a nap. It's an effort to stay awake. So, so taking a little power nap before the flight really helped just, just to kind of get my head straight. And then it was a combination of, I think almost nine hopper flights for the most part. Um, and, uh, I remember.
At one point seeing Afghani fly by, but continuing down into a very stable Valley. So I side-hilled, uh, and just with a bunched up glider hiked up, maybe not even a hundred meters and waited. It was, you know, cloud base wasn't much above us and had to wait basically time thermal cycles and go a little ways along the ridge. And, uh, got through a little coal. And side-hilled again. And base basically then had to pull out my map and this was still looking metal old E-trex Garmin and a big paper map. Uh, trying to make sense of where I am, where, what my next move is. And luckily, luckily I knew this area a little bit, cuz it wasn't, you know, um, we're basically now between, uh, we've rounded, we've rounded Montblanc.
And we're all in the same game of just, you know, flying.
And, uh, we had to, uh, get up to the top of the hill. It's impossible. So you're just, you're just trying to go straight down the course line and, you know, get as much distance. And, um, managed to, uh, at the right time, basically fly into the air, uh, near Borg San Maurice and cloud base at that point had risen close to a thousand meters. So it was like top of lift. It was now 2,700 meters or so. It was able to fly all the way up, uh, to call this Irene. And actually, I think, yeah, I had to land up there, walk a little bit, and then it was able to sort of launch on a shoulder and fly southward into the next Valley.
And just, just keep hiking. And then I was doing my math cause I knew, I knew Aiden could run and I was, but he, he cut into the. kind of missed the window there a little bit um and didn't get into a great like end of the day flight and up the whole valley from borg san luis to the cold is a ring and that was the crux move um so you know i walked i remember walking in till 3 a.m that night uh because you know there's no no rest rules and i knew the guy could run and i knew you know we still had till at least uh you know 11 30 the next day so i didn't want him catching up because i managed to and
did you know exactly where he was was live tracking you know something you could pull up on your phone or dave could they could
and i think i yeah i was getting enough information from from dave and via phone to know that he was about 25k as the crow flies behind us but oh yeah i was doing good i knew i couldn't start running forever but i knew he could uh so so i was uh and then i heard he was like going up into the mountains to try to take some shortcuts so even though i'd gotten a bit of a head start i wasn't taking it for granted and i just kept kept going and going and you know i had to ended up taking like a little one and a half hour nap and then flew down i think now is technically in italy um and had then there was a you know in the morning there was about 1500 meters to hike back up and over another pass and got to that pass with a few minutes to spare
to launch and was basically airborne when the time ran out but uh that managed to put me into third and you know the honor of standing next to hoffer uh and mauer um was you know that was mauer mauer's first win uh hoffer you know uh hoffer barely made it in uh within the 48 hours which was uh you know it just showed him like that that definitely you know mauer was coming onto the scene that year oh nine and god his
first one too his
first one he just just yeah just blasted through it i mean just really dominated yeah so that was you know you know i was just i remember being super super tired uh as they're doing the countdown on the for the podium finish but uh yeah it was it was unexpected in my in my mind i'd never you know you know dave kind of said yeah we're going for podium this year i was like yeah sure dude i just i just i wasn't feeling it so it was it was uh it was you know a combination of of some good lucky flights and uh other people's misfortunes and it's you know something that just you know it's it's it was a fluke but it was it was it was it was an awesome feeling to stand with those two guys um i mean looking back at it now they're short of casper henry they're the only two guys that have ever won the X-Alps um right so to stand with those guys on the podium was it was a treat that definitely was i'd
forgotten that that whole forgot second in that one that's right and then didn't he after he was training for the was it 2011 when he broke his back yeah yeah 2011
is when all those um you know the the those really the the rods those um the black technology and all that uh yeah those fiber rods came on the scene and it was still i think at that point it was still they might i think it was still open class i didn't i don't think they made every glider be certified but it was uh um yeah i'm trying to think if that was that might have been oh no no no i know and i think it was 11 that all that was coming on the scene uh a lot of people a lot of people are getting on those at that time right
right yeah i want to say he was flying the r10 maybe or like yeah that foggy man yeah yeah
but i know a lot of people are getting hurt i was kind of like i remember just uh yeah there's just a lot of people were getting getting hurt on those but that that came on the scene i think more in in 2011 okay
so good transition 2011 that was uh the first year we saw gushel bauer who's also had a pretty epic run yeah he got himself
into yeah on his first one there into third place i remember that was the first year i
think that's what put him on team team red bull yeah and uh yeah and the weather was pretty brutal in 11 right wasn't that the bad weather year yeah
i'm trying i'm trying to let's see i remember that was the first time we had uh the tri achievement um uh turn point and so yeah like worst for that year once again got off to a decent start and then this time i think i got myself either hypothermic or something but hiking up to the tri achievement you know i got super cold uh but i didn't like i had like still a sweaty shirt it was windy and cold but i wasn't fully acknowledging what was happening so i was i thought i would just you know often i would just you know no big Denali got a wet shirt i'll just keep hiking and it'll evaporate and everything will be fine i remember taking a phone call that was stupid taking a phone call from the states and sitting there and i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna that wet shirt and towards the end not like getting cold and not even thinking rationally i could have easily pulled out a wingtip of my paraglider and wrapped it around myself
and it just i just wasn't i wasn't thinking straight you know i remember at the base of the hill dave's all you want your jacket was a you know 250 gram down jacket super lightweight down jacket would have made all the difference i was like no no don't need it i'm you know want to go super light but uh yeah i got up there i was like okay well i'll get up here and have some warm soup i had like a little sip of that soup and i could tell i was gonna throw up and then and this was kind of embarrassing because i had you know i had a big plastic bag but it wasn't you know it's one of the few times i slept in a in a hut it was um but the dry chima hut and there's like 20 people in this bunk room and i remember getting in there around you know midnight and just throwing up and it was just uh is is not just embarrassing but it was also you know i woke up in the middle of the night and i woke up the next morning just feeling just absolutely terrible and um yeah dave said basically i'd bonked i just kind of overdone it and just kind of just yeah yeah the next morning we got uh we got going kind of slowly it was like i'd made it up there i think fourth or fifth but
by next morning before it got flyable another five or six pilots got there so that whole like any big lead advantage had uh had to quickly get up there and i was like oh my god i'm gonna get up evaporated then it was just about like flying you know out of the dolomites and uh working my way towards morano and by um let's see you know it's the day after that we got to morano and i just remember like getting to morano landing in this really nice like overgrown old garden of berries and fruit which was really nice but also finding out that by now mauer's already in zermatt which is just you look at the map and you're like holy shit he's just so so far ahead and that they still hadn't implemented a minimum time rule so we're like wow this race is going to be over and you know we won't even get to play very long because um that year only mauer and toma i think uh made it um so but what i do remember on that one um and just to back up a little bit
let's see what this is no that would have been that would have been 13 okay so this is that would have been 13 yeah it's funny gavin it gets to be it some of it gets to be a bit of a blur you know you try to do yeah
it all
mashes together yeah yeah i mean i used to to tell you the truth i think up up to the first three i was able to like in my mind replay it day by day i'd have to carefully think through it but that's sometimes an exercise i did if i couldn't fall asleep i was like let's let's replay the x out and i'll replay i'm going to play the x out and i'm going to play and i had up to three of them the you know i was able to replay them kind of day by day but um now you try to like think back on each individual one and what exactly happened in each one it's it gets to be uh it gets to be a little hard to tease it apart yeah
totally they they kind of glom together and you get you get days from oh that that was in 2017 oh wait no that was 2019 i i have that all the time i do the same thing to go to sleep sometimes and relive it but you relive it yeah yeah what
i need to do is um there's there's a fellow i forget his name he was in the 09 i believe uh X-Alps uh the british guy and he kept meticulous records of the track logs um uh Tom Payne Tom Payne yeah pain yeah so yeah i need i need to send him an email one day and uh get get the track logs of of my you know of my five five X-Alps i'd love to superimpose it all in one map just have different colors you know that'd be really great and if he go ahead he
gave that to us um he didn't have all of them but he had back to 2009 when i was getting ready for the first one my first one in 2015 we got all those from him i wonder if i still have them somewhere but they're we use those as kind of training just because i you know just to see how you all did it that you know how do they how do they do this race because i was a rookie and i was clueless remember how much i called you yeah how do we do that how many shoes should i have all those kind of things so yeah he he still does he keeps meticulous notes on all that stuff it was he was very resourceful and
you know what was what was actually i was going to say back in 07 even though it was very old technology i think it was two minute tracking intervals it made for much more realistic flight distances because after that when they got to much higher resolution tracking they never you know they always thought they could have found the programmer that would put like a low pass filter and actually take out your circles and take out you know if you if you if you did it every two minutes you'd get a much more realistic distance flown if you count every circle and every thermal it always said well this guy flew 400 kilometers today you know something i know and
i've often wondered if the if the audience understands that because it's you know the and they'll and they'll actually put it out you know in the posts you know Chrigel flew 280k today you know and you're going oh
my god i'm going to
wait no i mean not even Chrigel did that
yeah so i think it might be a you know they're pushing big numbers to make it sound interesting and to the i guess the majority of the audience are non-pilots that are not critically looking at this but it you know it screwed everything up like when you're looking at the proportions of like actual distance flown the distance hiked because distance hiked that's that's real distance hiked you know even at like whatever one minute intervals two minute intervals you're not moving that far but but when you start you know counting every circle it's it totally totally skewed it but so that that in in some ways old technology of every two minutes made it much more realistic for for distances i never thought about that but but still kind of reminiscing a little bit on 2011 by then you know being the third time going through some of these uh places it does start to be a trip down memory lane and what's really cool is you go over certain places and you're like you know man last time i flew through this within minutes and now i'm trekking through it you know over hours and vice versa uh right so it's just uh it's it's it's it's it's definitely but it's it's cool because like the the places are kind of like your old friends as you pass through them uh yeah
and you see them in new ways and just yeah it's it's it's it like nate always says you know there's it's a special way to see it because you would never see it in that way recreationally absolutely get to places in the race and fly in conditions i'm not necessarily even bad conditions but just you know those morning glory fights flights where you'd never normally even be out of bed yeah yeah you know just crazy 10 minute sledders that are just you know you're the only person in the world seeing that right then you know it's just those moments are incredibly special yeah
and then i think and anything to save a hike to the side hill landings the craziest places to side hill it even on an active like you know little asphalt road that's on a basically a cut in a cliff but it's you know you either land there you look for traffic and you land and you bunch up your glider real quick or you're going to be landing way down there at the bottom and have 200 meters of extra hiking and it's just uh you do anything to save you know not not having to sink out or not landing lower than you need to
and the and the and the number of times that i have carried on with the flight with no options because you just it's going to work out you you get into this headspace where there will be a landing we're in the alps you know there's going to be i mean i've flown down these river canyons that are just proper you know v canyons with you know basically flying down a river with surrounded by trees going yeah it's going to work out you know just flying past a beautiful lz you know i could have definitely landed in but nah you know if i keep flying i'll get another kilometer out of this yeah
yeah or some of the some of the i mean you know it's hard to remember exactly which one it was in 09 or not but there was one memory that really comes to mind it was it must have been uh i would i would say maybe 09 but i remember there was the airspace of seon this this this time i'm coming no it would have been 11 i think it'd been 11 because 09 we hiked all that with aiden but 11 it was basically threading a needle you have a 45 degree cliff face you've got cloud base above it and then you've got off to the side is airspace so you got like a very physical thing the cliff side this kind of ephemeral but thing you don't go into next to a cliff the cliff side is a very physical thing the cliff side is a cloud base above you and then this invisible thing this human-made airspace wall and it was basically threading a needle through that like do you because if you if you if you start sinking out too much you're either forced on a very steep cliff side landing or you're going to sink down into the airspace anyway it's like a triangle and then if you you know go too high you're in cloud and threading the needle through that that was that's one memory that always sticks with me that was just like you know kind of you get through that and then you're like oh my god and you're like yes and uh well
night nice way to nail the uh 2011 highlight uh 20 and let me know if we should move on yeah let's share more from 2013
yeah because this was new crew um i had uh jesse williams and lewis rosen rosenger and um it was um let's go to the worst day because i always like to start with the worst day where's the worst day i think it's the worst day i think it's the worst day oh yeah so back in 2011 was the last time i made 10th last time i was in the top 10 so that was that ended uh 2011 and 2013 a lot of things changed now they're saying okay mauer is moving so fast we're gonna put in a minimum everybody gets to race for 12 days rule which was cool um so we all knew that we'd actually get to you know fly for maybe more than nine or ten or i've never done that before but i've never done that before i've never done that however many days it was but it just seems like you sure that was 2013 i believe 2013 yeah
i thought they'd instituted that in 2015 he finished that in 2013 he finished in six days or something it was crazy
yeah and and that's i remember we got to we got to race for 12 yeah okay yeah they instituted that was in instituted in 2013 because i remember 2013 like in 2015 marking some of the things that were going on and what um made the big difference for me was you know it 2013 the weather got bad at the end but it was it was day 11 and i'll tell you the story man we so we start super early uh we're in uh we had the santiller was a turn point like where the santiller that that festival is and so it had to in the morning
usually you know the the program was i'd start hiking a little bit then they get some breakfast ready to catch up to me i'd probably shed some clothes and i'm getting ready for the uphill hike
and so then i do this you know we go through that whole routine i hike up to the santiller launch
and i realize that we don't have the bag of clothes like we kept most of the clothes in this blue ikea bag and there's two nice down jackets in there all the speed sleeves all the you know the x-ops everything and we left it by the side of the road at like you know 5 30 a.m or something um and about two hours ago and it was yeah they went back they drove back it was gone i remember trying to get them to like plaster some posters or something some like clothes flyers i remember on my blog i was you know trying to remember my french i was like like i was like please let me know i was like really like just missing my clothes and and it was even though i had a really the flight off um santiller was just this just a long morning sledder but it was it ended really cool because it was just clearing of a bar and there's not many barbed wire flights there's not many barbed wire flights there's not many barbed wire flights fences it's mostly like electric fences or nothing but there's a barbed wire fence i cleared it by like a half a foot on the other side that let me get into a field and save myself from hiking up from the very bottom valley but that was you know that was little consolidation of the fact that the forecast was that it was going to be bad stormy for the next couple days and you know try as we may we just we got to i think we got definitely got the closest i ever got i think we got to within
kilometers but um you know it was it was the first it was the first time i hadn't made top 10 and all i was 11th and all top 10 made it to monaco with this 12-day rule so i was like oh i was like it like it felt like it slipped through my fingers just like you know we were given a finite number of days it was no longer dependent on the fastest guy because you know being within 48 hours
behind behind mauer just seemed to make monaco completely impossible until they implemented this 12-day rule and uh then to to kind of felt like a you know then you start to question every move along the way you know where did you screw up like and it's it's it's one of those yeah you're just evaluating it but uh you know the the best i don't know it was fun it was at least you know as even though uh this was approaching the day approaching trying to get to santiller but uh on the rv's chain by la clusa the coal by la clusa there um got to pass a french guy in france so that was uh you know one of the pilots i made it from 12 to 11 you know it was a small consolidation but at least you know i remember i remember chuck uh emailed me uh or sent you know whatever on the on the on the chat he's on the chat and i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like hey you just passed a french guy in france so that was you know at least at least a little something and uh consolation yeah and then and then i remember in that specific one you know
some uh the day approaching the um uh let's see which would uh we had inter yeah we had interlock and so we had interlock and so we went by the eiger so approaching like getting into interlock and there was just this big cunim over uh over the eiger so you know kind of skirting well away from it but it was just like just just amazing lift in that whole area the whole valley and then you know trying to get as close to interlock and then doing these uh into into wind in the lee uphill landings and i was i was starting to starting to get really cocky with those i you know just i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna well you gotta land it not gonna land at the base not gonna hike from the bottom and i'm not gonna i'm not gonna make it over the crest i'm not gonna punch up wind but i'll land into wind uh just basically like you just basically fly it right into the hillside because it's flushing down the hillside and just kind of carry enough momentum and flare hard enough
uh and land into that and and that was that on that one it worked out pretty good so uh it wasn't
2013 where i think that uh no 2015 um where uh uh where i started to uh you know i think i overdid it with that and uh you know it's 2015 so as we move to that so i'm still got jesse and then uh pavel sibulka from the czech czech republic was my other supporter and they just keep adding more i mean you probably noticed they just keep adding more and more turn points i mean that there's probably a finite limit once you get like to 10 or 12 but if you go on the wikipedia page and you look at like what was you know in 2003 i think that to go north of verbiere and then to monaco yeah
exactly they had two you made
it so clear cut you know yeah
i think i think in 20 i can't remember it's either 2017 or 2019 there were 13 turn points yeah it's
just like what yeah i mean it's crazy it's crazy how it's evolved i know i know before i think it was the 15 where a bunch of people like violated interlocking airspace and at that point red bull wasn't really caring about it too much but then i think they the red bull got a big talking to where they basically had to like if you guys better enforce airspace uh and that's that's when things got really strict uh you know in 07 and even more strict in 09 and you know that's that's one of those things i think is also a fluke i mean i i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i tried my best and managed to avoid ever getting an airspace uh violation and you know i'm i'm very happy about that because i i saw the people who that who got hit by that and especially the years where it was just all or nothing invalidation i mean elimination it just yeah i mean i just you know i could see that you know their their world was momentarily just crumbling because it's you're just putting all this effort into that and just to be told oh you nicked this wall and now you're cut you're you're gone right so you know as there's a few times i got really worried that i might have maybe nicked something that i didn't quite notice even like the first day over the geisberg uh on one of the one of the xops i remember it was like i might have drifted did i drift too far towards salzburg oh no like i wasn't quite sure oh
the stress of the airspace yeah yeah i know it always dings people too and that was one of the things that i kind of held on to in the last race because i had such a terrible start and i was really fighting at the back and you know but it was it was interesting it was kind of it was in some ways i wouldn't say fun but it was it was kind of interesting being there because i'd never had a start like that and it was you know like you'd said in your 2007 race when you started really sick it was it was just a different kind of way to be optimistic you know because you know that people ahead of you are going to make mistakes you know people are going to get hurt you know people are going to hit airspace and you know people are going to get hurt and you know people are going to hit airspace um you just got to hang in there yeah and it's you know it's going to work out you're not going to win but yeah but it's and that's and that was true that did happen um but yeah so 2015 this is my first this was your last my last one you made it to monaco but we had it we had a cup we had a really cool day together day eight or something after uh the turn point down in the brenta yeah that
was that what was that they called it the sima tosa or the yeah
something like
that yeah so that that one um i remember yeah that was in in many ways uh i was trying to think of what would what would consider worse because that was in many ways for me a great x-ops even though like position wise it was my worst ranking 15th but it was yeah with with such relatively good weather and the 12-day minimum it allowed so many people i don't think before or since that have that many people made it to monaco and um but at that uh at that sima tosa at that italian turn point i remember you know we had to land sign the board and then relaunch i remember relaunching and very quickly sidehilling it because i just were within a few minutes because i just wasn't seeing so much cloud cover
i just wasn't trusting it to fly out of there and i figured i'll side hill either wait for more sun or hike a little higher yet everybody that was like coming in signing their name flying away they were making it work and uh and uh and i remember uh you know jesse was like why aren't you flying man and i was just like hiking this long traverse looking for a good relaunch spot and then the day was getting you know it was getting late in the afternoon so by the time i relaunched it was more of an extended sled ride and then uh it was the morning after that where we met up um and didn't who was it um dave turner wasn't yeah i mean didn't he fly with didn't we all show up on the same launch it was yeah
same launch you and i literally launched in the same place uh that was one of the spicier launches i remember actually not because of the conditions but you were you just talked yourself off the cliff i thought okay well he's doing it i can do that and uh for you but you had a great flight dave and i both bombed remember it was wicked stable yeah because he wanted to go around he wanted
to go around this one corner that didn't make sense and i just got on this one spot and i remember just staying and gaining like a foot losing a foot just forever hugging this little spot until i was able to climb out and this is still even before the crest this is before like getting there to sunward or was it somewhere that
was that was an exciting day that was uh you know tom Tom de Dorlodot was airlifted to the hospital uh the german guy bowed out of the race uh because remember it had been windy we were fighting a lot of wind that year and uh that was the day got really hurt and then i think i think that was the day or what maybe the day before when michael vichy landed in the lake through his reserve and landed in the lake and almost died trying to swim ashore yeah yeah there's some crazy ones in that that race went down you and i were oblivious of course we were doing our own thing yeah
and then then after that i remember there was maybe one one other staple day after that and then you more or less caught up and then that's when you did your deep line and
then you did your deep line and then you did your deep line
where i kind of yeah i i carved way to the north and then flew um i had like an eight hour flight and that was the day i think we've talked about this on another one where i got into the wave uh for a bit um and but you managed to cut through over by zermatt and when i was there this summer i was looking at that and i was like wow like how did in all this wind um i know i know you said it was very spicy where you had to deal with with you know i had to stall it a few times
uh nick from new zealand managed to push through there but when i was when i flew up into tagging this the matter horn turn point but i just wasn't seeing how i just wasn't seeing the move to to continue pushing into wind it seemed like one would just yeah
they getting out of there was man i i tried so many times i hit the turn point and i just kept pushing up into those glaciers and just getting spanked and running back down and trying again and trying again and then powell the the the polish guy we both finally hooked a thermal and he was he was he was behind me but you know in the same thermal and uh we finally got high enough you know somewhere around 38 or something to keep going and you know what was the big factor there was communication when i got into the sass and then into the zermatt and heading up there you know suddenly i was with all these x-ops pilots and it was just you know it wasn't a recreational day there was nobody else behind that day but there was x-ops pilots and i and i'm looking at them thinking whoa i think i think that's so i don't remember now i think that's so and so they were in eighth this morning you know i was in 18th so i was very excited i i knew that we were doing well and then i started getting these texts from bruce that just said do not come back to the rhone because everybody was going in and tagging it and going back to the rhone and getting drilled because the wind was so strong and just landing oh
yeah i remember again i remember landing just before like not quite out to the rhone but like almost at wisp level but just still in that valley where the y the upside down y starts so yeah that was yeah that was very funky in there but it just it seemed like it kind of seemed like the only move even though i knew i'd have the the next day was forecast to be even more windy and i knew i'd have the endless walk up that valley those 80 kilometers
oh the death walk up the sea on valley yeah
yeah but it's it was it was yeah it was you know i remember like once again like
jesse was questioning why didn't you you know why didn't you those other guys made it that way like i just i just wasn't seeing it and and we didn't have the we weren't doing the communication thing like we didn't have a radio or necessarily calling each other or anything in the air um so yeah it's it's it's hard to say you know it's it's hard to say i mean it felt like i for me it felt like a the smart move just to just to fly back out but obviously obviously several people were able to push push right up yeah
it was you know and looking back and hearing the stories you know i i ended up confirming this with powell a couple years ago down in columbia because one of the one of the stalls you know just every ridge that you were heading west you know towards chamonix and verbiere you know the wind was really strong and you were high it was it was fires pushing against wind but when you get down below these ridges and have to lee out of it you know you're not going to be able to get down below these ridges and have to lee out of it you know you're not going to be able to get down below these ridges and um you know you take some spanking and and one of them in particular i guess i scared paul out of the pow pow out of the air he just he saw me just completely lose my glider and he went okay i've had enough you know and went and landed and i didn't realize this but michael vichy was right below us and he had also landed just okay this is this is too much um and i think ferdy and nick were the other two that were able to push push through but yeah that was that was uh that was why i mean and at the end you know after all the fighting flying into verbiere was class one it was there was you know the wind finally died and and i mean flying into verbiere i was texting mike and stew and waving at town and it was just a piece of cake it was you know but it took a while
that you're able to kind of push upwind through because now that i've seen that terrain a couple times it just is to imagine pushing up through it like when i was north of uh wisp and like making
my way through the wind i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this
kind of you know along the north part it made sense because i would never have to quite go into the lee and it almost felt like a little protected you know there's the valley wind that was strong in the valley then there was mid layer that was reasonable that you can kind of work your way and keep pushing up through and then above crest level it was strong again but seemed like going from zermatt towards um uh to verbiere like those initial crossings you're you're there it's not like you're flying along the side of a ranger you're going across like each one is a perpendicular like you're gonna have to push into wind into its lee to get over it and uh it's
interesting to think about these things too i mean in in retrospect as well you know wondering i i i really don't think i could do that move again you know it's it's funny how the race puts you in different head spaces i mean part of it was that my feet were falling off you know so i
did like three easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier
easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier I already had the idea of the next day of just going direct, but it was kind of this all or nothing, you know, it was day eight. I'd been, I'd had a series of bad days after a really good start. And I think it was just, I have to do something big here. I have to, you know, to make Monaco, I've got to do something. And so I think it was just this headspace that was available to me that day. And I, you know, I wonder maybe Kregel's has that headspace all days. I don't know, but I don't know that I'd be able to do it again. I certainly now I don't think I would, I'd just be too scared. You know, in some ways it's just ignorance is blood. Yeah.
I was, I was, I was almost thinking about that too. Like, like, like cause where, where you were in your flying career at the time. And then like some of the stuff you've written later, like what, you know, what, why, you know, sometimes when people are so deep, like, why did you, I think you were some article or something, you're telling some guy, why are you so deep if it was working just fine out front, you know, totally different. It's a different scenario, but like, uh, yeah, it's not always, you know, but I, I also, I also like to, when, when possible go deep, like especially on the, on the Sierras, if it's ever possible to fly, you know, from, from Waltz and fly directly over Whitney and the, the, the true crest of the high Sierras, that's, that's, you know, there's something about getting deep in there and seeing it all, but, but unless when preferably, you know, that's.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Less wind for sure. Well, was the, was the highlight from that year just simply Monaco or was there something during the race that really stands out more?
I mean, I think, yeah, you'd have to, I would have to say finally making the goal, even though once I, you know, uh, got onto, what do they call it? Is it Mon, Mon, Mon gross, Mon gros or the, the one. Yeah. It was, it was somewhat anticlimactic because then there's this lot of this waiting around. Like you were, once you get there, you're, you're, uh, you can't fly down to the raft right away. Uh, they ha they, they kind of, it's staged. Uh, and you, there was these, there's so many of us, there's like these little 15 minute windows. You get to go and your supporter flies with you and then, you know, so kind of have to wait around for that. And I remember getting up there and in the morning and, you know, somebody handing me a beer and somebody handing me a red bull. And I remember I was like, okay, I'll have, I guess I'll have one of each, you know, but it was, uh, yeah, it was one of those things.
You kind of like, you know, it, it did put a finishing touch. It was, you know, uh, uh, you know, I wanted to make it, I wanted to land on that raft. I'm glad they still had that raft. Cause I heard in the future or in the, some of the future additions, they, they didn't even put the raft in the water anymore. Um, so that was cool. I mean, that was definitely something that was, you know, eight years in the making for me, five attempts. Um, so I would have to say that was, uh, that was, uh, super special. To get to, to get to land there, even though it was the worst ranking and it was obviously the E one of the easiest years because so many people made more than half the field made it. So it wasn't, you know, it was nowhere near as, I guess, unique or special as making podium, but it always, for all those other four additions being not quite a goal and being told it's time's up, stop getting the van and now drive to Monaco and celebrate.
It was, it was super, super cool to arrive, uh, in, in Monaco. Um, yeah. The one thing I was going to mention on that 2015 is I think as I was saying in 2013, I was getting a little bit cocky about landing in, in the Lee of things just, uh, like, okay, it's flushing over, over this Hill and I want to go there and I'm just gonna, I'm not going to clear it, but I'm just gonna, um, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll land, um, you know, and, uh, just landed the Lee. Like I was saying, well, this time I did it, uh, and it was, uh, it was really windy and it felt, it really felt like a constant stall into the ground. I know it wasn't, I know it was still flying, but there's just so much sink and it was, you know, probably kind of like, uh, 15, I guess in the 18 miles an hour, uh, where I landed and, and it was in, in the Lee.
And luckily it was, it was mostly grassy and took, you know, it was really hard landing, but it was one of those, I kind of checked myself and everything was fine, but I was thinking, man, you only get so many of these, you know, you just, this is not the right thing to be doing. It's not worth it. It's just like, it was, it was one of those realizations. It's like, okay, you've been getting away with some of this and just kept doing it in stronger and stronger conditions. And just, just don't do that again. At
some point it's going to bite. Was that, I'm curious, Hans, was there an overriding one thing after 2015 that was okay, I'm done. Was it because you made it? Was it because of kids, family? Yeah, I think it was, it was,
it was, it was told me the second kid, uh, was, uh, you know, on the way by Tommy was born in 17, uh, in March and I'd kind of, I felt like I sort of checked off all the boxes, you know? I mean, it's like, I knew it wasn't, I was, I was obviously descending for the last four. I was descending through the rankings. So, so like the, the, the heyday was obviously the, you know, early on given me being able to crawl up into ninth after such a bad start, then making podium, then still like one more of holding the top 10 and then just kind of slipping through the rankings. And I could see the pace of the race was getting, you know, so intense, the professional, if that's a word, professionality, I don't know, but, uh, you know, now they'd opened it up to more than one supporter.
Uh, you had, you know, so, so, so many people like preparing year round and, uh, I just, yeah, I didn't have the time to invest in it. I mean, if you,
if I'd won the lottery and if I didn't have kids, I think I would do it again. Uh, maybe, maybe even, maybe even just the lottery, you know, if you didn't have to work, then, then you could do a lot more flying as, you know, but, uh, yeah, I think, I think it was a good time. It was a good time to stop. I mean, uh, it's, it's, uh, you probably, you know, you, you just gone through the same thing recently yourself is there's, there's a point where you decide it's, you know, you're not, you're, you're not getting better. It's, it's getting, the race is only getting just crazier, faster matter. Yeah. And, uh, and, and you just kind of got to, I guess it's time to let somebody else have a go at it.
Yeah. Totally. Hansa, what a treat, man. That was, that was really fun. I've been smiling the whole time. That was, uh, it was fun to relive those races with you. Thanks, man. Thanks for
sharing. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, it was definitely fun. I'm glad we got to race each other in, uh, in 2015. I'm glad you got to represent, uh, for another three years and yeah, we're going to see, uh, uh, how, uh, Logan and what's the other Cedar, how, how they do. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm wishing them, wishing them lots of luck. I know they're training hard. I got to see Logan shortly a few weeks ago in, uh, in Carpinteria and had a really fun, um, sky camp with him last May in the Owens. We just had just stellar stellar conditions, like minimal wind, but good proper May time, strong thermals. So, um, yeah, I think, uh, it'll it'll it's, it's time to give the next generation a go at it.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, cool, bud, all the best. And, uh, can't wait to fly with you again sometime soon. Yeah.
Yeah. No, no. Thanks. Uh, thanks for having me over again for the, for this chat and, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's been great. So it's always a fun walk down memory lane, looking back at all these X-Alps and look, look forward to flying with you too, man.
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