Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. We are keeping the X-Alps streak alive here with my good friend Hansa Rejmanek, who raced in five Red Bull X-Alps starting in 2007 and ending in 2015, which was my first. So we take a walk and a fly down memory lane in this one with Hansa. He's now a meteorologist, has a couple kids. He's been doing these really cool tandem bivvies with his elder son. You've heard I had him and his son, our teen, on the show a little while back. They had another big adventure, big bowl bib adventure in the Alps this summer, which was really cool to watch. Had some good weather and flew the long ways.
But, yeah, we go back and hear about the highs and lows of his ex-Alps exploits, It's going to be in third in 2009 and all kinds, all the crazy things that happens in that race. So I think you're really going to enjoy it. Before we get to it, as we dive into December here, I've got a few things of housekeeping, some fun stuff. The first is fear injuries. We're getting ready to launch a Kindle version of my book, Advanced Paragliding. This is one of the chapters in the book, and we want to sample and find out more about fear injuries, how it affects performance, and a bunch of other things.
So, if you have had one, can you jump on my website and just zip me an email, and we'll reach out and and dive into these a little little bit more. It's something we want to understand more because it's a term I think that's maybe not very well understood. It's certainly something we've been talking about the last couple of years on the show. I don't know if it came from paragliding or something else. So trying to find out more. The other is, many of you got back to me about this podcast. It was one of our most popular with Hannah Jane Williams. She's a postdoctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute, and she was studying soaring birds and had some pretty interesting take on that, but she was not a pilot, and so has been reaching out to pilots and using them to grab data, and putting instruments on paragliders to grab data to help them understand more how birds do and why they do what they do.
So the podcast was great, it was very educational, I loved it, and Hannah just reached out out to me very recently and wanted me to tell all of you that they have a spot for a paragliding-based PhD position that they've just opened up. I'll read you this. The position will investigate all the things we spoke about in the podcast, but with the main question being how valuable is social information for flight performance and competitive paragliding flight. So she wanted me me to share that with all of you. It's going to suit a pilot with an interest in modeling, computational biology, or aerodynamics. So if you think that something you might be interested in, there's a link in the show notes for this one.
Just go to the website and pull up this podcast with Hansa, and there's a link there and you can find out all about it, and you can find out where to reach out to Hannah and see if this would suit you. Sounds really cool. And finally, I'm leaving in a couple of days for the Superfinal, but I wanted to let you all know about a very cool mission that Miguel and his team at Elastolombre is putting together up in Nayarit right after the Superfinal. So I think the Superfinal wraps the 17th. On the 18th, We're going to get on a plane in Tucumán, which is just outside of Valle, and fly up to Nayarit, up by Puerto Vallarta, and fly the mountains there. It looks really cool, and apparently the flying is epic.
There's been some cool videos going around on that, and some pretty heavy hitters going up there to fly. So, it's a three-day kind of semi-comp just to explore the area and see if this is something that would work for us for future endeavors down there, so another sister site to buy where we could do big comps. So they will supply retrieve, I don't know for tree, but he's getting up to the launch. And so this isn't a, you know, fully organized thing, but it's something that you're—if you're down in Valle or down in Mexico this December, definitely take a look at that. And I will also have the link for that in the show notes for this one. I'll be posting that on social media and stuff as well, but the area is called Nairi. Flying looks epic, and you know, Miguel and his team, they put on a good show.
It'll be awesome, so it'll be a lot of fun. So, if you can make it, come on down and join us. and enjoy the show with Honza. This was a special talk; hope you like it. Cheers, Honza.
Uh, great to have you back on the show. We had some technical difficulties. I know, uh, tech is not your thing; you're a meteorologist and a pilot, so that was—that was kind of a funny reminder. We're going to to be talking about tech in this show, going back to 2007, I remember in the 2015 when you were still using your little Garmin thing. So, uh, you know, I—I think you're more a fan of paper maps than than all the—all the tech, but good to have you back, Bud, and good to see you here. And I'm excited to talk some X-Ops with you with another one right around the corner, yeah.
Yeah, thanks for having me. And, uh, it's gonna be, I think, in what, in the last eight editions, the first one that neither of us are in, huh? That's right. That's right. Yeah, we've—we'll both be spectators, yeah.
We've been there for quite a bit more than a decade. If you put the two of us together, yeah, that's okay. So that's my first question, uh, how hard was it for you to watch your first one and not be in it? So how hard was 2017? Because I'm right around the corner for that one. I'm already starting to get a little bit bit jumpy about that. You
Know, it was, it was not too bad, but thanks to, like, uh, we've had a podcast about this, but basically, when I started doing my own little private X-ops with my son on the tandem with Martin, we were doing our very first one. He was eight, and we're doing our very first one as the 2017, uh, was going on. So, uh, we occasionally checked into it, but actually didn't follow it religiously, like I wasn't, you know, at work behind a computer and frantically checking the X-ops, so just
Frothing? Yeah, yeah, that's It's actually a good inspiration for me watching you and Martine doing these awesome trips. I mean, I, I know we're gonna get you guys back on for this last one because you guys covered some serious ground. That was amazing. But your first one was when he was eight, and my little one's five, and she just got her, her, uh, her tandem kit from Nate. You know, he's not flying much, so he, I just, we just got her harness actually yesterday, so I'm prepping, man, I'm gonna be following in your footsteps.
Excellent, excellent. Yeah, it's—it's—it's—it's an—it's an awesome, it's just, you know, I can't—I can't, um, it's the one thing I look forward to most every year now is doing these, uh, uh, these hike and fly self-supported trips with—with Martin would
You, you ever, would you ever go back to the ex-alps? Would you do, or is this filled the filled the void I
think it's momentarily filled the void, but you know, inspired me tremendously was seeing Ogisawa in his 60s, I know, and that just blew my mind. Uh, you know, because I remember, I remember he had a disqualification, it might have been, uh, 2013, uh, I believe, maybe even 2011, and he had an airspace violation super early on. And, and he was, yeah, he was 50 or just over 50 at that time, and I was like, "Oh man, that's got to be his last one." He got disqualified on day two, I think it was. I think it was 2011. There was, they got really strict for a moment there where they disqualified like with no, no, no, uh, buffer, no
time penalty years out
and uh it was super cool to see him back and it was good to see him kind of still hang in there, you know, like, I mean, he was obviously, uh, you know, wasn't top 10, but he was, I mean, he was for a 60 year old. That's, that's amazing.
Oh, dude. I mean, he and I were going neck and neck trying not to get eliminated at the end. And in this last one with, with my terrible start and he was making some cool moves and, you know, we had, uh, you know, I haven't communicated verbally very much with Ogie, uh, Uh, but he, at the party afterwards, he gave me this look and I think I gave the one back that was, you know, cause the weather in this last one was really sketch. And, and, uh, we gave these look of each other that was just, man, I appreciate you. You know, it was kind of both ways. It was, man, we were fighting back there and, and we both hung in there. So it was, that was pretty cool.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, it could be something as, you know, when I'm in my early 60s, I might throw in an application and see if they take me. If they do, I'd love to do it again.
It's pretty fun, as you know. Well, and we're going to talk about the fun that you had and maybe some of the not fun that you had. But we've done a few of these now, a couple of them now with Tom and Chrigel. And so, you know, the theme, we talked about this before we started recording. But we're going to rewind the clock to actually the first one that I watched as well was 2007. I remember that very vividly. I was up in Scotland sailing and we were trying to get internet wherever we could. And we had clients on board who had no idea what the race was all about. And Bruce and I were just, oh, we got a while. We sail for an hour. We got to get back to the XL, see what's going on, watch Hansa and Nate. But take us back to 2007. You're going to share with us, and you could certainly share more, but share with us a memory that maybe wasn't captured in the race or that wasn't in a story or one of the videos, but something that still strikes you now is just a really good moment and maybe a not so good moment.
You know, we tend to remember not so good moments as good moments anyway as time goes by. But tell us about 2007.
Yeah, 2007.
Definitely, I always start with the worst. The worst was just the evening before the race. I had a dinner. dinner and and after that dinner I went with a few of the pilots and and Dave, my supporter, went and we just had a dinner and I remember like walking back and across this bridge I already got sick and I threw up dinner. I was like, "Oh man, there goes 13 euros." I just threw up and that was, that was the least of it because then that night, uh, you know, I got, I got the runs guns and I didn't sleep very much and in the morning it was just both those things continued and it was, this was the last where last of the xops where they didn't start out of Saltberg, we actually um took a gondola about halfway up the Dachstein and then there was um, it was and you know we were based out of uh near Hallstatt uh and it took the gondola halfway up, halfway up the Duckstein and then uh at about a thousand meters to hike up.
So for most people that was like an hour, hour and 20 minutes and I started there was a little bit of a downhill, hit the bottom of the downhill and threw up again and then it was just a crawl because I had like no energy in me. It was, it was you know, I never know exactly what happened but um, I think something I ate the, the, the day before and you know my most likely culprit is a piece of salami that floated in the, the cooler and some melted ice water and maybe picked up something off the side of the cooler maybe and maybe, maybe it was something totally different but I picked up some pretty bad bug and you know I was like, "This, this was terrible." I was basically, you know, as I was hiking up, crawling up to the Duchstein, I was watching these guys fly.
I was feeling really strong wind flushing watching down, down the Duckstein, the side I was walking up and I got there, it was too windy and basically they arranged uh for the race doctor to come up there, check me out and um that I could spend the night at the Duckstein lift station um and the hottest thing Gavin is there was some, there's one other guy from Turkey so
had everyone else already flown everybody?
flew off. Yeah, I was, was basically, well, I wasn't quite last because there was this guy from Turkey who wasn't sick, but he, he got in there on flying merits, but he was terribly out of shape because he, he got up there maybe just slightly ahead of me, and it was by the time he got up there, it was too strong for him to fly. So him and I, we called it the Dutch Nine prison because it was basically a locker room. Um, we got told we could stay there. Um, I know the, I remember the race doctor came and, uh, I think gave me a little bit of, uh, IB drip, just, uh, to get my, get me a little bit rehydrated. Um, but yeah, we then in the morning it was locked, so we couldn't get out till I think six or seven in the morning, and, and then it was blown over, blown from the north, so the wrong way, so had to hike down 2,000 meters.
So everybody got off that day and basically had to hike down for 2,000 meters.
Then towards the end of the day, I saw the race doctor again. And he was saying, I can give you antibiotics, but I have to ask you to quit the race. I said, well, no, don't give me antibiotics. I'm not going to quit the race. I'm happy to be in it. and there's a slight chance that I might not be eliminated because there's this Turkish guy who's not moving very much. I kind of passed him that day despite him not being sick. And I think he basically, after 23 kilometers, he gave it up. I mean, I think it's a fluke. He just called it. He just called it, yeah. But he might have – I forget exactly whether he called it or whether he stayed in place. I don't know if that was being respected at the time. but kind of long story short on that is slowly, slowly I started getting better, but it was like four days before I was feeling myself again.
Luckily, on day three, I managed to have a good flight. It was only 50 kilometers, but it was the longest flight of that whole X-Alps, but it put me uh seventh from last, which gave me a little bit of a buffer, not by much, but a little bit of a buffer from, uh, being eliminated because that was the... so back, you know, back in '07, we, we could hike all night, every night. There was no sleep rule, no rest rule, but it was the first year that the elimination rule, uh, was instituted. So, ah, they didn't have that before. They didn't have that before. Yeah, they didn't have that in '03 and '05. So this was the first, the first year that got, um, that got put, put in there.
But, um, luckily, yeah, I got that, that third day saved me. And it was, it was, you know, it was one we had to cross the crest of the Alps from the north to the south, and I remember just It was one of those days where the... you're not getting much above crest level, so you're kind of, you know, thrumbled up to a spot where I'm just kind of sloshing against it, and there's just wind, kind of sloshing, sloshing, sloshing, and finally, and one of those sloshes that you got a little, little bit of lift, was able to clear the crest and then get into the the other valley and then, you know, continue with the flight, uh, that down the valley and gotten across the crest, and it was just... it was that was kind of the felt like a really miraculous save, so that's that was that was really
crux is what
a way to start oh to be so sick after all the preparation and training and I have to ask you, so, I mean, this was just the third one. How big of a deal was it in 2007? Was it still, you know, the biggest thing going in paragliding? Were you just blown away to be in it and be there? Or was it still kind of a budding race? race i
Think he was transitioning to something really big. Uh, I mean, I actually didn't get in on the first round, but they kept, uh, like six sort of wild cards or standbys. And it was Nate got in on the first one, and I was like, "Okay, well, you know, he didn't—he'd done the Dolomit Man or some, uh, one of those races, so he had—he had done something else in Aspen, so he'd done a few little things where, you know, his name was there." And you know who you know who really, uh, got me in there? I mean, obviously Dave Dave Handing was trying hard to get me in, but he asked Will Gadd to write me a, a short little thing of support. And in back in the day in Sun Valley, we, the Dave Bridges Memorial race, and, um, you know, I raced Will Gadd up, uh, a Baldy, and kind of that, Will Gadd at least kind of knew of me a little bit.
And he, he just wrote a really short, like, three-sentence recommendation email that said it'd be, it'd be fun in the kind of sick way to watch Nate and Honza go at it, you know, just to have two, two people from the Sun
valley boys yeah
And uh, so yeah, so it was when I got in there, that was—that was super cool to to get in there. Then, then I had this scary incident where I thought I'd be eliminated immediately, which would have been just embarrassing and just just bummer. And yeah, but then it got, you know, then it got better. This race, Gavin, they didn't have, um, well, it was, um, there wasn't a like a maximum number of days. There was, it was two days after the first guy makes it. Um, Alex Hoffer took 14 days to make it. Was only 850 kilometers, so it just tells you how this, how the speed has changed, right? So, 850 kilometers, Alex Hoffer makes it in 14 days, so on day 15 he's finishing, which is giving everybody, buddy, 16 days to to to keep, right?
You know, to on day 17 is when it's done. So this was the longest one I've been in, I mean, more than half a month. And yeah, that's crazy. So it allowed for a tremendous amount of time, uh, to sort of claw my way back through through the through the pack. I mean, I was, you know, and Nate had a super good start. I remember just passing through places like near the Marmalade and I was like, "Man, Nate was here 48 hours ago." There's just, there's like no way I'm ever gonna catch Nate. And then, uh, by day 14, or 15, I managed to catch up to him and, uh, we, we hiked in the evening and then Lisa made us some breakfast burritos in the morning and we hiked, uh, you know, through about noon the next day and, um, unfortunately, his feet were really in bad shape, uh, man.
His stories of his feet, he took his his shoes and cut them up, cut the sides of them open. Yeah, those feet could hang out of them. Oh, they sounded mangled like mine in 2015, yeah.
Yeah, so, so you know, he, despite him having such a strong start, he was, you know, he by the end, he was suffering pretty bad. So I had to, I had to leave him, uh, and keep, keep pushing and managed to, uh, almost catch up to Erlich Jessup. So I, you know, squeaked into, uh, the top 10. I got got into ninth that year after all that. So it was, but it was, you know, it was a very, it didn't seem so super crazy paced. I mean, there was, there was the, you know, we'd march long into the night. We'd kind of, the habit was you go to about 1 a.m.
till you're just super tired and then wake up with the sun at six-ish. So you're kind of doing these five-hour nights. Uh, but it somehow, it was a little, you know, it was kind of, at least waking up with the sun was really, uh, really good that year. Um, and we really had no idea what we're doing. I mean, we came in there blind. I came in there with a map that was like one to five hundred thousand. It was a roadmap, you know? I, I'd Google Earth flown over the place a bunch of times. I was like, "Wow, there's a lot of mountains from here to there," you know? And I tried to print a few print screens of like what I saw on the Google Maps on the route, but I was, I was really like, I'm just gonna have to kind of take this day by day and see what happens and
I mean, in the air, you weren't flying with a phone that had the next waypoints and all the stuff like we do now. Is it were you just often, I don't know where
I am, we just
fly that we had way
We had waypoints on some big, uh, you know, I think it was one of those fly techs they gave us something that we had to carry—a big brick—and that that gave us the waypoints. Uh, we had our phone, but basically, but
Those are the main waypoints. Those are just the, oh.
Yeah, oh yeah, we had no, no waypoints for the day or anything like that. I mean, it was, there's a whole different approach, I mean, and to me it seemed much, a much more organic approach where once you know, once I got off launch, uh, there was my game. There was like no communication with the supporter, like the flying part of it was totally my, my game. The only thing, once I remember calling Dave on a, it was a really good day approaching the Swiss border, and I called him from the air because I just really needed to check if there was like a, a ceiling over us because it... It was just such a good day. We're getting to like 3,800 and I just need to know, is there a ceiling? Like, can I, am I going to get some kind of violation, even though it didn't look like an area where they told us about airspace, but I just, I just wanted to ask.
So that's the only time I like that we communicated in the air.
That's amazing. That's amazing. And I mean, for navigation on the ground, is it literally just the, the, the one to 500,000 map you had? You didn't have, were you using any kind of GPS? We had
an E-TREX, like an E-TREX GPS. We had some maps that we kind of gathered along the way. I mean, we had a little bit of a budget, so Dave would kind of sprint ahead and just buy the local topo maps.
But we were just kind of making do as best as we could. Luckily, the Sion area, since there was the Eiger turn point, That, uh, you know, the way I approached, uh, Martini and all that was from north of that whole valley that's got the Sion airspace, so I didn't have to, um, I didn't have to really deal with, um, with that. I just kind of came in from this diagonal. If you kind of took a diagonal from the Eiger, uh, towards Martini, uh, I approached that and just landed up. You know, it was still, it was in the evening, it wasn't super crazy. I've had some much crazier landings like past Martini. This was upwind of Martini, and it was, of course, windy, but it wasn't, it wasn't a crazy, uh, crazy windy situation there.
That, that time is
There a moment, or a day, or something in the race that just still really stands out as as a really special moment that, you know, a kind of a high of the race, uh
I, I think of that, of that particular race, uh, like I said, the, the first, the first actually, my first proper, proper, uh, exceed flight on day three, that, that really, that really saved it because that, you know, it would, that made her break, it would have, would have, would have, you know, if that hadn't succeeded, I might have been facing elimination, uh, possibly. So it was, uh, it was, you know, and, and I launched and I started sinking out, of course, so it made it extra sketchy. I was like, "Oh man, oh man, oh man, I got, you know how it is, you get, you get below, you get, you get the grassy areas up top, you get the grassy areas in the bottom, but you got the, that middle tree layer, and there's not always landing areas there.
So once you drop below that, you're kind of committed to the valley if you, if you keep sinking." And it was, uh, yeah, just got, you know, into the tree area, but managed to thermal out and, uh, and, and save it. So that was, uh, I think that's still the most of the crux, yeah. The the what really stands out, I mean, a
Lot of days, that's all days hiking, hiking through the rain, hiking, you know, just hiking late, late into the night, um, but, uh, but that, I think, that stands out, uh, stands out the most.
You know, this is going off topic here a little bit, but uh, I don't think this will hold true this year now because the numbers will shift. But the last time I did a check, maybe this was 2017, 2017, or maybe 2019, it was over half of the U.S. uh participants in the ex-alps that had ever done it had kind of cut their teeth in Sun Valley. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.
I wouldn't be surprised, really.
Fascinating, you know, it's you and Nate to start off with, but you know Will Gadd dad, you know, uh, uh, you know, myself, Mitch, Willie, um, I'm missing some, but pretty remarkable, that's kind of an interesting thing, yeah.
Well, Sun Valley's been such a great training ground. I mean, I think I always said, if—if you get comfortable with Sun Valley, uh, you know, you're—you're ready for the Owens. And that's the Owens is only a—I think—thing like that is one—one layer or one—one level higher, uh, obviously Midsummer Owens, but, uh, you know, I think—I think, you know, once—once you get comfortable with Sun Valley, a lot of stuff doesn't seem that—that crazy anymore.
that's true
okay so 2009 it was a really good one for you third place uh take us back to 2009 Yeah,
so 2009. So I still had Dave Henning as a supporter. We knew a little bit better what, you know, what we're getting into. I think we had more than more than two pairs of shoes this time. time, uh, we had some, uh, you know, let's see, with um, let's start with the worst on that one, the worst. So we got off to a good start, we got off to a good start, I think, uh, by the time we got to the marmalada area, um, I was, I would say I was, um, almost
maybe fifth, fourth, fifth, it was really looking good. And then, um, before getting to Bolzano, um, yeah, no, no, I know what, actually it was a two-part deal. It was the first, the first day was not very good, and we all flew just a little bit off the Guysberg side hill, landed, uh, and then all ran downhill because everybody's excited, Toma's running, and we're all, okay, we're gonna run with Toma for a while. And I just did, did not, that was not good for my knees because I hadn't trained, uh, to, you know, do a lot of running with that backpack. So I, I damaged my knees a bit, and they were really starting, that damage was starting to kick in by about day four, and even though I was doing pretty well around fourth, there approaching Bolzano, it was too, um
too windy to fly down into there, and so it was about a I I don't know, 4,000-foot or 1,200-meter hike down into Bolzano, and I hiked it all backwards because my knees were hurting, but they didn't hurt hiking backwards.
So that was like the remedy there, but what I didn't realize I was doing with that move is I was totally screwing up my Achilles heel. So then I got my Achilles heel that starts getting all swelled up and basically tendonitis of the Achilles, And there I had to slow down a bit, and suddenly I, you know, I'm back to like 10th, and it was only thanks to some really good flights after that that I was able to, um, kind of stay back in the game. The knees got better on their own; the Achilles tendon kind of kept, kept bugging. The race doctor would like put shots of some homeopathic injections, and there did they... They didn't, you know, maybe helped a little bit, but, uh, um, yeah, it was, it was, uh,
thanks to the flying, I think that it, that I, that it helped, um, you know, help me stay up front. And then, um, it was a year, a lot of people had, you know, airspace violations. Um, uh, I think Helmut from Austria had, uh, got eliminated. Toma might've gotten eliminated. I think that was that was a year they were being very, very strict. There was I think it was all or nothing. I think there wasn't a penalty, just elimination. And so I would say at least two or three or maybe more got eliminated. And then Martin Miller, Martin Miller from Switzerland, who would have won in own 07 had he not had
a violation. But back in 07, they gave a 48 hour penalty. So he had, you know, he hit the sea on airspace and that let Alex Hoffer get first and Toma second in 07. martin miller was doing well but then he flew into some box canyon and broke his ankle and
So he was out, and I know if he'd stayed in there, uh, I'm like 99% certain he would have passed me at some point, because he sometimes, sometimes he'd have a little bit of a rough start, but then the second half he would often just jet through the, you know, standings and all, all the way up top. So, so he's come back, yeah? So he's, he's real good, but he got, he got hurt. And then towards the end, maybe day eight or nine, it was suddenly appearing that, you know, it was this race for third between Aiden Toast from England, um, and, and, and myself. And Aiden was a runner, not quite of the caliber of Toma, but he was definitely a runner.
He could run And uh, so we had this back and forth over a few days where he would always outrun me, and then I would outfly him, and then he would outrun me. And we had this long one where we both ended up, you know, we tagged the Matterhorn the same morning. We both kind of, more or less, flew out, uh, in towards, uh, that afternoon. And then we had 80 kilometers up the valley towards Martini, and he just started running, and I was like, "Oh man," and I just walked. And I walked all night, and I walked into Martini the next, you know, the next morning, and up to the, uh, that the Cola Foreclaw that's above Martini. And luckily, it was too windy because I was just not having pulled that all-nighter. I was like, I was not feeling in any flying shape at all.
And I think, um, Aiden gotten himself a little bit further towards Chamonix, but he was having a hard time with the wind and wasn't able to fly. But somehow, in the meantime, that that day that we were both not able to fly, Evgeny from Russia managed to kind of hop, uh, just hop, hop over from, uh, Zermatt area like towards Verbier and just, just stayed deeper in there and was able to, um, to make his way. And suddenly, we were all more or less in the Shamboni area and the evening two days prior to the, to the last day, because this was, you know, Mauer had made it, uh, so we had, uh, those,
you know, the 48 hours had already and we're all within about five kilometers of each other and Then the next morning, we start making our own moves, um, and you
know, we I remember hiking, uh, and basically hiking up to cloud base. It was just too early, so taking a little nap, which, which is always a good thing in the x-ops if you're, if you're on launch early and you can manage to take a nap, which by the end, and like the final days, like days, you know, nine, 10, 11, it doesn't take much to, you know, any, any stopping of movement basically has you napping. Like it doesn't take, it's not an effort to take a nap. It's an effort to stay awake. So, so taking a little power nap before the flight really helped just, just to kind of get my head straight. And then it was a combination of, I think almost nine hopper flights for the most part. Um, and I remember at one point seeing afghani fly by, but continuing down into a very stable valley, so I side-hilled, uh, and just with a bunched up glider, hiked up maybe not even 100 meters, and waited.
It was, you know, cloud base wasn't much above us, and had to wait, basically, time thermal cycles, and go a little ways along the ridge, and, uh, got through a little coal, and side-hilled again, and basically then had to pull out my map. And this was still looking at an old etrex garment and a big paper map, trying to make sense of where I am, where's what my next move is. And luckily, luckily, I knew this area a little bit, because it wasn't, you know, um, we're basically now between, uh, we've rounded, we've rounded Mont Blanc, and we're all in the same game of just, you know, go as straight a course line towards Monaco, because nobody's going to make Monaco.
It's impossible, so you're just, you're just trying to go straight down the course line, and, you know, get, get as much distance, and, um, managed to, uh, at the right time, basically fly into the air, uh, near Borg San Maurice, and cloud base at that point had risen close to a thousand meters, so it was like top of lift was now 2700 meters or so. I was able to fly all the way up, uh, to Col de Zarine, and, and actually, I think, yeah, I had to land up there, walk a little bit, and then was able to sort of launch on a shoulder and fly, you know, southward into the next valley and just keep hiking.
And then I was doing my math, because I knew, I knew Aiden could run, and I was, but he, he kind of missed the window there a little bit, um, and didn't get into a great, like, end of the day flight and up the whole valley from Borg San Maris to, to Coldasaring, and that was the crux move, um, so you know, I walked, I remember walking in till 3 a.m. that night, uh, because you know, there's no, no rest rules, and I knew the guy could run, and I knew, you know, we still had till at least, uh, you know, 11:30 the next day, so I didn't want him catching up because I managed to and
Did you know exactly where he was? Was live tracking, you know, something you could pull up on your phone, or Dave could? They could
And I think I, yeah, I was getting enough information from, from Dave and via phone to know that he was, was about 25k as the crow flies behind us. But oh yeah, I was doing good. I knew I couldn't start running forever, but I knew he could, uh, so, so I was, uh, and then I heard he was like going up into the mountains to try to take some shortcuts. So even though I'd gotten a bit of a head start, I wasn't taking it for granted, and I just kept, kept going and going. And, you know, I had to ended up taking like a little one and a half hour nap, and then flew down. I think now is technically in Italy, um, and had then there was a, you know, in that morning there was about 1500 meters to hike back up and over another pass, and got to that pass with a few minutes to spare, managed to launch and was basically airborne when the time ran out.
But, uh, that managed to put me into third and, you know, the honor of standing next to Hoffer, uh, and Mauer, um, was, you know, that was Mauer, Mauer's first win, uh, Hoffer, you know, uh, Hoffer barely made it in, uh, within the 48 hours, which was, uh, you know, it just showed him like that, that definitely, you know, Mauer was coming onto the, the scene that year, oh nine, and God, his
first one too, his
First one, he just, just, yeah, just blasted through it. I mean, just really dominated, yeah? So that was, you know, you know, I was just, I remember being super, super tired, uh, as they're doing the countdown on the boat for the podium finish. But, uh, yeah, it was, it was unexpected in my, in my mind I'd never, you know, you know, Dave kind of said, yeah, yeah, we're going for podium this year. I was like, yeah, sure, dude. I just, I just, I wasn't feeling it. So it was, it was, it was, you know, a combination of, of some good lucky flights and other people's misfortunes. And it's, you know, something that just, you know, it was a fluke, but it was, it was, it was, it was an awesome feeling to stand with those two guys.
I mean, looking back at it now, Now, short of Casper Henry, they're the only two guys that have ever won the X-Alps. Right. So to stand with those guys on the podium was a treat. That definitely was a treat.
I'd forgotten that Hofer got second in that one. That's right. And then didn't he, after, he was training for the, was it 2011 when he broke his back? Yeah. Yeah, 2011
is when all those, you know, the rods, the black sheep technology and all that, those carbon fiber rods came on the scene. And it was still, I think at that point, it was still, I think it was still open class. I don't think they made every glider be certified, but it was, I'm
trying to think if that was, that might have been. know, no, no, I know. And I think it was 11 that all that was coming on the scene. Uh, a lot of people, a lot of people are getting on those at that time, right?
Right, yeah, I want to say he was flying that the R10, maybe, or like, yeah, the foggy man, yeah, yeah.
but I know a lot of people were getting hurt. That was kind of like, I remember just, uh, yeah, there's just a lot of people were getting getting hurt on those, but that that came on the scene, I think, more in in 2011, okay?
So, good, good transition. 2011, that was, uh, the first year we saw Guschlbauer, who's also had a pretty epic run. Yeah, he got himself
into, yeah, on his first one, there into third place. I remember that I
Think that's what put him on team, Team Red Bull, yeah. And, uh, yeah, and the weather was pretty brutal in '11, right? Wasn't that the bad weather year? Yeah.
I'm trying, I'm trying to, uh, let's see, I remember that was the first time we had, uh, the Tri Chima, um, uh, turn point, and so yeah, like, worst for that year, once again got off to a decent start. And then this time, I think I got myself either hypothermic or something, but hiking up to the Tri Chima, you know, I got super cold, uh, but I, I didn't, I had like still a sweaty shirt. It was windy and cold, but I wasn't fully acknowledging what was happening. So I was, I thought I would just, you know, often I would just, you know, no big Denali got a wet shirt. I'll just keep hiking and it'll evaporate and everything will be fine. I remember taking a phone call.
That was stupid. Taking a phone call from the States and sitting there in that wet shirt and towards the end, like getting cold and not even thinking rationally. I could have easily pulled out a wingtip of my paraglider and wrapped it around myself. And it just, I just wasn't, I wasn't thinking straight. You know, I remember at the base of the hill, Dave's all, you want your jacket. It was a, you know, 250 gram down jacket, super lightweight down jacket would have made all the difference. I was like, no, no, don't need it. I'm, you know, want to go super light. But, uh, yeah, I got up there and I was like, okay, well, I'll get up here and have some warm soup. I had like a little sip of that soup and I could tell I was going to throw up. And then, and this was kind of embarrassing because I had, you know, I had a big plastic bag, but it wasn't in a—it's one of the few times I slept in a, in a hut.
It was on top, but the dry chima hut, and there's like 20 people in this bunk room, and I remember getting in there around, you know, midnight and just throwing up. And it was just, uh, is, is not just embarrassing, but it was also, you know, I woke up the next morning just feeling just absolutely terrible. And, um, yeah, Dave said basically I'd bonked, I just kind of overdone it and just kind of, yeah, yeah. The next morning we got, uh, we got going kind of slowly. It was like I'd made it up there, I think, fourth or fifth, but By next morning, before it got flyable, another five or six pilots got there, so that whole like any big lead advantage had, uh, had quickly evaporated.
Then it was just about like flying, you know, out of the Dolomites and, uh, working my way towards Morano and, by, um, let's see, it was the day after that we got to Morano and I just remember like getting to Morano, landing in this really nice like overgrown old garden of berries and fruit, which was really nice, but also finding out that... But by now, Maurer's already in Zermatt, which is just, you look at the map and you're like, holy shit, he's just so, so far ahead.
And they still hadn't implemented a minimum time rule. So we're like, wow, this race is going to be over and we won't even get to play very long because that year only Maurer and Toma, I think, made it. Yeah, that's right. Um, so but what I do remember on that one, um, and just to back up a little bit...
Let's see what this is. No, that would have been—that would have been 13, okay? So this is—that would have been 13. Yeah, it's funny, Gavin, it gets to be—it some of it gets to be a bit of a blur, you know? You try to do, yeah.
it all
mashes together, yeah, yeah. I mean, I used to—to tell you the truth, I think up up to the first three, I was able to like, in my mind, replay it day by day. I'd have to carefully think through it, but that's sometimes an exercise I did if I couldn't fall asleep. I was like, "Let's let's replay the x out," and I'll replay them, and I had up to three of them. The, you know, I was able to replay them kind of day by day, but um, now you try to like think back on each individual one and what exactly happened in each one. It's—it gets to be, uh, it gets to be a little hard to to tease it apart, yeah.
Totally, they—they kind of glom together and you get—you get days from, oh, that—that was in 2017. Oh, wait, no, that was 2019. I—I have that all the time. I do the same thing to go to sleep sometimes and relive it, but you relive it wrong. Yeah,
Yeah, what I need to do is, um, there's—there's a fellow, I forget his name, he was in the '09, I believe, uh, X-Alps, uh, the British guy, and he kept meticulous records of the track logs, um, uh, Tom Payne, Tom Payne, yeah, pain, yeah. So, yeah, I need—I need to send him an email one day and, uh, get—get the track logs of—of my, you know, of my five, five Xops. I'd love to superimpose it all in one map, just have different colors, you know? That'd be really great. And if you go ahead, he
gave that to us. Um, he didn't have all of them, but he had back to 2009, when I was getting ready for the first one, my first one in 2015. We got all those from him. I wonder if I still have them somewhere, but there, we use those as kind of training, just because I, you know, just to see how you all did it, that you know, how do they, how do they do this race? Because I was a rookie and I was clueless. Remember how much I called you? How do we do that? How many shoes should I have? All those kind of things. So yeah, he, he still does. He, he keeps meticulous notes on all that stuff. It was, he was very resourceful and
You know what was, what was actually I was going to say back in 07, even though it was very old technology, I think it was two minute tracking intervals. It made for much more realistic flight distances because after that, when they got to much higher resolution tracking, they never, you know, it always thought they could have found a programmer that would put like a low pass filter and actually take out your circles and take out, you know, if you, if you, if you did it every two minutes, you'd get a much more realistic distance flown. If you count every circle and every thermal, it always said, well, this guy flew 400 kilometers today. You know, something crazy I know
And I've often wondered if the—if the audience understands that, because it's, you know, and they'll—and they'll actually put it out, you know, in the posts, you know, "Chrigel flew 280k today," you know. And you're going—wait, no, yes, I mean, not even Chrigel did that.
Yeah, so I think it might be a, you know, they're pushing big numbers to make it sound interesting and to the, I guess the majority of the audience are non-pilots that are not critically looking at this, but it, you know, it screwed everything up like when you're looking at the proportions of like actual distance flown, the distance hiked, because distance hiked, that's that's real distance hiked, you know, even at like whatever one minute intervals, two minute intervals, you're not moving that far. But, but when you start, you know, counting every circle, it's it it totally totally skewed it, but so that that in in some ways the old technology of every two minutes made it much more realistic for for distances, I never thought about that, but but still kind of reminiscing a little bit on 2011, by then, you know, being the third time going through some of these, uh, places, it does start to be a trip down memory lane, and what's really cool, cool is you go over certain places and you're like, you know, man, last time I flew through this within minutes and now I'm trekking through it, you know, over hours and vice versa, uh, you know, right?
So it's just, uh, it's it's it's it's it's definitely, but it's good, it's cool because like the places are kind of like your old friends as you pass through them, uh, yeah.
and you see See them in new ways. Just, yeah, it's, like Nate always says, you know, there's, it's a special way to see it because you would never see it in that way recreationally. Absolutely. You get to places in the race and fly in conditions, not necessarily even bad conditions, but just, you know, those morning glory fights, flights where you'd never normally even be out of bed. Yeah, yeah. You know, just crazy 10 minute sledders that are just, you know, you're the only person in the world seeing that right then. You know, it's just those moments are incredibly special. Yeah.
And then I think anything to save a hike to the side hill landings, the craziest places to side hill it, even on an active like, you know, little asphalt road that's on a basically cut in a cliff. But it's, you know, you either land there, you look for traffic and you land and you bunch up your glider real quick, or you're going to be landing way down there at the bottom and have 200 meters of extra hiking. And it's just, you do anything to save, you know, not, not having to sink out or not landing lower than you need to.
And the, and the, and the number of times that I have carried on with the flight with no options, because you just, it's going to work out. You get into this headspace where there will be a landing. We're in the Alps, you know? There's going to be, I mean, I've flown down these river canyons that are just proper, you know, V canyons with, you know, basically flying down a river with surrounded by trees going, "Yeah, it's going to work out," you know, just flying past a beautiful LZ that, you know, I could have definitely landed in, but nah. Oh, I, you know, if I keep flying, I'll get another kilometer out of this.
Yeah. Yeah. Or some of the, some of the, I mean, you know, it's, it's hard to remember exactly which one it was in oh nine or not, but there was one memory that really comes to mind. It was, it must've been, uh, I would, I would say maybe oh nine, but I remember there was the airspace of Sion this, this, this time I'm coming. No, it would have been 11. I think it would have been 11 because in 2009 we hiked all that with Aiden. But 11, it was basically threading a needle. You have a 45-degree cliff face. You've got cloud base above it. And then you've got off to the side is airspace. So you've got like a very physical thing, the cliff side,
this kind of ephemeral but thing you don't go into next to a cliff, the cloud base above you. and then this invisible thing, this human-made airspace wall, and it was basically threading a needle through that. Like, do you, because if you, if you, if you start sinking out too much, you're either forced on a very steep cliffside landing, or you're going to sink down into the airspace anyway. It's like a triangle, and then if you, you know, go too high, you're in cloud. And threading the needle through that, that was, that's one memory that always sticks with me. That was just just like, you know, you kind of, you get through that and you're like, yes.
Well,
nice way to nail the 2011 highlight.
20, and let me know if we should move on. Yeah, let's go to 2013.
2013 was new crew. I had Jesse Williams and Louis Rosinger. Juror, and um, it was, um, let's go to the worst day, because I always like to start with the worst day. Worst day? Oh, yeah. So, back in 2011 was the last time I made 10th, last time I was in the top 10. So that was that ended, uh, 2011. And 2013, a lot of things changed. Now they're saying, "Okay, Mauer is is moving so fast, we're going to put in a minimum everybody gets to race for 12 days rule," which was cool. Um, so we all knew that we'd actually get to, you know, fly for maybe more than nine or ten, or however many days it was, but it just seemed like, you sure that was 2013?
I believe 2013, yeah.
I thought they'd institute instituted that in 2015. No, no, no, he was—he finished that in 2013. He finished in six days or something. It was crazy.
Yeah, and and that's I remember we got to, we got to race for 12, yeah? Okay, yeah, they instituted that was in instituted in 2013 because I remember 2013, like in 2015, marking some of the same spots as 2013. And what, um, made the big difference for me was, you know, it 2013, the weather got bad at the end, but... But it was, it was day 11 and I'll tell you the story, man. We, so we start super early. We're in, we had the Saint-Hilaire was a turn point, like where the Saint-Hilaire, that, that festival is. And so it had to, in the morning, usually, you know, the, the program was I'd start hiking a little bit, then they get some breakfast ready to catch up to me.
I'd probably shed some clothes as I'm getting ready for the uphill hike. And so then I do this, you know, we go through that whole routine. I hike up to the santiler launch
And I realize that we don't have the bag of clothes; like, we kept most of the clothes in this big blue IKEA bag, and there's two nice down jackets in there, all the speed sleeves, all the, you know, the x-ops, everything, and we'd left it by the side of the road at like, you know, 5:30 a.m. or something, um, and about two hours ago, and it was, yeah, they went back, they drove back, it was gone. I remember trying to get them to like plaster some posters or something, some like lost clothes flyers. I remember on my blog, I was, you know, trying to remember my French, I was like, "Like," j 'ai perdu mes vêtements.
Si quelqu 'un a vu mes vêtements, est-ce qu 'il peut me téléphoner? Like, I was like, please let me know. I was like, really? Like, just missing my clothes. And it was, even though I had a really, the flight off Saint-Hilaire was just a long morning sledder, but it ended really cool because it was just clearing a bar. And there's not many barbed wire fences. It's mostly like electric fences or nothing. But there's a barbed wire fence. I cleared it by like a half a foot on the other side that let me get into a field and save myself from hiking up from the very bottom valley. But that was, you know, that was a little consolidation of the fact that the forecast was that it was going to be bad, stormy for the next couple of days.
And, you know, try as we may, we just we got to I think we got definitely got the closest I ever got. I think we got to within 90 kilometers, but um, you know, it was, it was the first, it was the first time I hadn't made top 10 and all, I was 11th and all top 10 made it to Monaco with this 12-day rule, so I was like, oh, I was like, it, like, it felt like it slipped through my fingers, just like, you know, we were given a finite number of days, it was no longer dependent on the fastest guy because Because, you know, being within 48 hours behind Maurer just seemed to make Monaco completely impossible until they implemented this 12-day rule.
And then to kind of felt like, you know, then you start to question every move along the way. You know, where did you screw up? And it's one of those, yeah, you're just evaluating it. But, you know, the best, I don't know, it was fun. It was at least, you know, even though this was approaching, the day approaching, trying to get to Saint-Hilaire. But on the Arby's chain by La Clouse, the coal by La Clouse there, got to pass a French guy in France. So that was, you know, one of the pilots. I made it from 12th to 11th. You know, it was a small consolidation, but at least you know I remember, I remember Chuck, uh...
emailed me, uh, or sent, you know, whatever on the on the on the chat. He's like, "Hey, you just passed a French guy in France," so that was, you know, at least, at least a little something and, uh, consolation, yeah. And then, and then I remember in that specific one, you know, some, uh, the day approaching the, um, uh, let's see, which would, uh, we had Inter, yeah, we had Interlaken. So we had Interlaken, so we went by the Eiger. So approaching, like, getting into Interlaken, flying into there, and there's just this big cunim over, uh, over the Eiger. So, you know, kind of skirting well away from it, but it was just like, just, just amazing lift in that whole area, the whole valley.
And then, and, you know, trying to get as close to interlock and doing these into wind, in the lee, uphill landings. And I was starting to get really cocky with those. You know, just I was like, well, you got to land it. Not going to land at the base, not going to hike from the bottom. And I'm not going to I'm not going to make it over the crest. I'm not going to punch up wind, but I'll land into wind. and just basically like, you just basically fly it right into the hillside because it's flushing down the hillside and just kind of carry enough momentum and flare hard enough, uh, and land into that. And and that was that on that one, it worked out pretty good. So, uh, it wasn't until 2013 where I think that, uh, no, 2015, um, where
Uh, where I started to, uh, you know, I think I overdid it with that and, uh, you know, it's 2015, so as we move to that, so I'm still got Jesse and then Pavel from the Czech Republic was my other supporter and they just keep adding more. I mean, you probably notice they just keep adding more and more turn points. I mean, there's probably a finite limit once you get like to 10 or 12, but if you go on the Wikipedia page and you look at like what was it was, you know, in 2003, I think they had to go north to Verbier and then to Monaco.
Yeah, exactly. They had two. It
made it so clear cut, you know.
Yeah, I think in 20, I can't remember, it was either 2017 or 2019, there were 13 turnpoints. Yeah. It
was just like, what? Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy how it's evolved. I know, I know before, I think it was the 15 where a bunch of people like violated interlocking airspace. And at that point, Red Bull wasn't really caring about it too much. But then I think they, the Red Bull got a big talking to where they basically had to like, if you guys better enforce airspace. And that's, that's when things got really strict, you know, in 07 and even more strict in 09. And you know, that's—that's one of those things I think is also a fluke. I mean, I—I tried my best and managed to avoid ever getting an airspace, uh, violation, and you know, I'm—I'm very happy about that because I—I saw the people who—that—who got hit by that, and especially the years where it was just all or nothing invalidation—I mean, elimination.
It just, yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I could see their world is momentarily just crumbling because you're just putting all this effort into that just to be told, "Oh, you nicked this invisible wall and now you're cut, you're gone." So you know, there's a few times I got really worried that I might have maybe nicked something that I didn't quite notice, even like the first day over the Geisberg on one of the one of the X-Hops. I remember it was like, I might have drifted. Did I drift too far towards Salzburg ago now? Like, I wasn't quite sure. Oh,
The stress of the airspace, yeah, yeah, I know. It always dings people too, and that was one of the things that I kind of held on to in the last race because I had such a terrible start and I was really fighting at the back, and you know, but it was, it was interesting. It was kind of, it was in some ways I wouldn't say fun, but it was, it was kind of interesting being there because I'd never had a start like that, and it was, you know, like you'd said in your 2007 race when you started really sick, it was, it was just a different kind of way to be optimistic, you know, because you know that people ahead of you are going to make mistakes, you know, people are going to get hurt, you know, people are going to hit airspace. Um, you just got to hang in there, yeah, and it's, you know, it's going to work out. You're not going to win, but, but it's, and that's, and that was true, that did happen.
Um, but yeah, so 2015, this is my first, this... This was your last, uh, you made it to Monaco, but, uh, we had a, we had a cup, we had a really cool day together, uh, day eight or something after, uh, the turn point down in the Brenta. Yeah. Yeah.
That was the, what was that? They called it the Sema Tosa or the, yeah.
Something like
that. Yeah. So that, that one, um, I remember, yeah, that was in, in many ways, uh, I was trying to think of what would, would, would consider worse. worst because that was, in many ways, for me a great X-Alps, even though like position-wise it was my worst ranking, 15th, but it was, yeah, with with such relatively good weather and the 12-day minimum it allowed, so many people I don't think before or since have that many people made it to Monaco and, um, but at that, uh, at that Sima Toast, at that Italian turn point, I remember, you know, we had to land, signed the board, and then relaunch. I remember relaunching and very quickly sidehilling it because I just, or within a few minutes, because I just wasn't seeing so much cloud cover, I just wasn't trusting it to fly out of there, and I figured I'll sidehill, either wait for more sun or hike a little higher.
Yet, everybody that was like coming in, signing their name, flying away, they were making, can it work? And, uh, and, uh, and I remember, uh, you know, Jesse was like, "Why aren't you flying, man?" and I was just like, hiking this long traverse looking for a good relaunch spot, and then the day was getting, you know, it was getting late in the afternoon, so by the time I relaunched, it was more of an extended sled ride, and then, uh, it was the morning after that where we met up, um, um, and didn't, who was it? Um, Dave Turner. It wasn't, yeah, I mean, didn't he fly with, didn't we all show up on the same launch? Yeah,
same launch. You and I literally launched in the same place. Uh, that was one of the spicier launches. I remember actually not because of the conditions, but you were, you just talked yourself off the cliff. I thought, okay, well he's doing it. I can do that. And, uh, for you, but you had a great fight. Dave and I both bombed. Remember it was wicked stable. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he wanted to go around, he wanted
to go around this one corner. That didn't make sense. And I just got on this one spot and I remember just staying and gaining like a foot, losing a foot, just forever hugging this little spot until I was able to climb out. And this is still even before the crest. This is before like getting there to Sunward or was it Sunward? That
was, that was an exciting day. That was, uh, you know, Tom, Tom de Dorlodot was airlifted to the hospital. Uh, the German guy bowed out of the race, uh, cause remember it had been windy. We were fighting a lot of wind that year. And, uh, that was the day Toma got really hurt. And then I think, I think that was the day or maybe the day before when Michael Witschi landed in the lake through his reserve and landed in the lake and almost died trying to swim ashore.
Yeah, yeah, there's some crazy ones in that. When that race went down, you and I were oblivious, of course. We were doing our own thing, yeah.
And then, and then after that, I remember there was a maybe one, one other staple day after that, and then you more or less caught up. And then that's when you did your deep line where I kind of, yeah, I, I carved way to the north and then flew. Um, I had like an eight-hour flight, and that was the day I think we've talked about this on another one where I got into the wave, uh, for a bit. Um, and but you managed to cut through over by Zermatt, and when I was there this summer, I was looking at that and I was like, "Wow, like how did in all this wind?" Um, I know, I know you said it was very spicy where you had to deal with, with, you know, I had to stall it a few times, but just you, you managed to push through there. Uh, Nick from New Zealand managed to push through there, but when I was, when I flew up into Tag, the Matterhorn turn point, but I just, just wasn't seeing how I just wasn't seeing the move to, to continue pushing into wind.
It seemed like one would just, yeah.
They getting out of there was, man, I, I tried so many times. I hit the turn point and I just kept pushing up into those glaciers and just getting spanked and running back down and trying again and trying again. And then Powell, the, the, the Polish guy, we both finally hooked a thermal and he was, he was, he was behind me, but you know, in the same thermal and, uh, we finally got high enough, you know, somewhere around 38 or something to keep going. And you know what was the big factor? There was communication. When I got into the SAS and then into the Zermatt and heading up there, you know, suddenly I was with all these Xops pilots and it was just, you know, it wasn't a recreational day. There was nobody else behind that day, but there was Xops pilots and I, I, and I'm looking at them thinking, Whoa, I think, I think that's so, I don't remember now that I think that so-and-so they were in eighth this morning, you know, I was an 18th.
So I was very excited. I knew that we were doing well. And then I started getting these texts from Bruce that just said, do not come back to the Rhone because everybody was going in and tagging it and going back to the Rhone and getting drilled because the wind was so strong and just landing.
Oh yeah. Yeah, I remember landing just before, like not quite out to the room, but like almost at wisp level, but just still in that valley where the Y, the upside down Y starts. So, yeah, that was, yeah, that was very funky in there. But it just, it seemed like, it kind of seemed like the only move, even though I knew I'd have, the next day was forecast to be even more windy. And I knew I'd have the endless walk up that valley, those 80 kilometers.
Oh, the death walk up the Sion Valley. yeah
yeah, but it's... it was, it was, yeah, it was. You know, I remember like once again, like, uh, Jesse was questioning, "Why didn't you... you know, why didn't you? Those other guys made it that way." Like, I just... I just wasn't seeing it. And and we didn't have the... we weren't doing the communication thing, like we didn't have a radio or necessarily calling each other anything in the air. Um, so yeah, it's... it's hard to say. You know, it's hard to say. I mean, it felt like... I, for me, felt like a... the smart move just... Just to fly back out, but obviously several people were able to push right up through there.
Yeah, and looking back and hearing the stories, I ended up confirming this with Powell a couple years ago down in Columbia. Because one of the stalls, every ridge that you were heading west towards Chamonix and Verbier, the wind was really strong. And you were high, it was fine, you were just pushing against wind. wind, but when you get down below these ridges and have to Lee out of it, um, you know, you take some spanking and, and one of them in particular, I guess I scared Paul out of the pal, pal out of the air. He just, he saw me just completely lose my glider. And he went, okay, I've had enough, you know, and went and landed. And I didn't realize this, but Michael Witschi was right below us and he had also landed just, okay, this is, this is too much.
Um, and I think Ferdy and Nick were the other two that were able to push, push through. But yeah, that was, that was, uh, that was why, I mean. And at the end, you know, after all the fighting, flying into Verbier was class one. There was, you know, the wind finally died. And, and I mean, flying into Verbier, I was texting Mike and Stew and waving at town, and it was just a piece of cake. It was, you know, but it took a while
that you're able to kind of push upwind through, because now that I've seen that terrain a couple times, it just is to imagine pushing up through it. Like when I was north of, uh, Wisp and like making my way, kind of, you know, along the north part, it made sense because I would never have to quite go into the lee, and it almost felt like a little protected, you know? There's the valley, when that was strong in the valley, then there was mid layer, that was reasonable, that you can kind of work your way and keep pushing up through, and then above crest level, it was strong again, but seemed like like going from Zermatt to Verbier, like those initial crossings, it's not like you're flying along the side of a range. You're going across, like each one is a perpendicular, like you're going to have to push into wind into its lee to get over it.
It's
interesting to think about these things too. I do. I mean, in, in retrospect as well, you know, wondering, I, I, I really don't think I could do that move again. You know, it's, it's funny how the race puts you in different head spaces. I mean, part of it was that my feet were falling off, you know, so I, the night before in Bell and zone, I landed in all this wind. That was when Tom got hurt. And when I landed, Bruce was just super fired up, you know, Hans is right there. You can, you know, you're only 20 K behind about about six people. You could go get them. And I said, I can't walk Bruce. I, I, and I'm flying like crap. I need sleep. I need a beer and I need to go to bed. I mean, it was 6 PM. There was a lot of day left and I, but I already had the idea of the next day of just going direct, but it was kind of this all or nothing, you know, it was day eight.
I I'd been, I'd had a series of bad days after a really good start. And I think it was just, I have to do something big here. I have to, You know, to make Monaco, I've got to do something. And so, I think it was just this, you know, head space that was available to me that day. And I, you know, I wonder maybe Kriegels has that head space all days. I don't know, but I, I don't know that I'd be able to do it again, certainly. Now, I don't think I would; I'd just be too scared. Yeah, you know, yeah, in some ways, it's just ignorance is blood, yeah.
Yeah, I was—I was almost thinking about that too, like, like, like because where, where you were in, in your flying career at the time. And then like some of the stuff you've written later, like what, you know, what, why, you know, sometimes when people are so deep, like, why did you, I think you were some article or something, you're telling some guy, why are you so deep? If it was working just fine out front, you know, totally different scenario, but like, uh, yeah, it's not always, you know, but I, I also, I also like to, when, when possible go deep, like especially on the, on the Sierras, if it's ever possible to fly, you know, from, from waltz and fly directly over Whitney and, the the true crest of the high sierras that's that's you know there's something about getting deep in there and seeing it all but but and less wind preferably yeah that's yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Less wind, for sure. Well, was the—was the highlight from that year just simply Monaco, or was there something during the race that really stands out more? Um...
I mean, I think, yeah, you'd have to. I would have to say, finally making the goal, even though once I, you know, uh, got onto what do they call it? Is it Mon Mon Mon Gros, Mon Gros, or the the one? Yeah, it was, it was somewhat anticlimactic because then there's a lot of this waiting around, like you were, once you get there, you're, uh, you can't fly down to the raft right away. Uh, they had, they, they kind of staged, uh, and you, there was these, there's so many of us, there's like these little 15-minute windows you get to go and your supporter flies with you and then, you know, so kind of have to wait around for that. And I remember getting up there and in the morning and, you know, somebody handing me a beer and somebody handing me a Red Bull and I was like, "Okay, I'll have, I guess I'll have one of each." You know, but it was, uh, yeah, it was one of those things, you kind of like, you know, it, it did put a finishing touch.
It was, you know, I, you know, I wanted to make it, I wanted to land on that raft. I'm glad they still had that raft because I heard in the future, or in the some of the future editions, they, they didn't even put the raft in the water anymore. Um, so that was cool. I mean, that was definitely something I was, you know, eight years in the making for me. Five attempts. Um, so I, I would have to say that was, uh, that was, uh, super special to, to get to, to get to land there, even though it was the worst ranking and it was, was obviously the one of the easiest years because so many people made, more than half the field made it, so it wasn't, you know, it was nowhere near as, I guess, unique or special as making podium, but it always, for all those other four editions, being not quite a goal and being told, "It's time's up, stop, get in the van and now drive to Monaco and celebrate." It was, it was super, super cool to arrive, uh, in, in Monaco.
Um, yeah, the one thing I was going to mention on that 2015 Is, I think, as I was saying, in 2013 I was getting a little bit cocky about landing in in the lee of things, just, uh, like, okay, it's flushing over over this hill and I want to go there and I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna clear it, but I'm just gonna, um, I'll, I'll, I'll land, um, um, you know, and, uh, just landed the Lee, like I was saying, well, this time I did it, uh, and it was, uh, it was really windy and it felt, it really felt like a constant stall into the ground. I know it wasn't, I know it was still flying, but there's just so much sink and it was, you know, probably kind of like, uh, 15, I guess in the 18 miles an hour, uh, where I landed and it was in, in the the lead, and luckily it was mostly grassy and took, you know, it was a really hard landing, but it was one of those.
I kind of checked myself and everything was fine, but I was thinking, man, you only get so many of these, you know, this is not the right thing to be doing. It's not worth it. It's just like, it was, it was one of those realizations. It's like, okay, you've been getting away with some of this and just kept doing it in stronger and stronger conditions, and just Just don't do that again.
At some point, it's going to bite, isn't it? I'm curious, Hanzo. Was there an overriding one thing after 2015 that was, okay, I'm done? Was it because you made it? Was it because of kids, family? Yeah, I think it was
Tommy's second kid was on the way. Tommy was born in 17 in March. And I'd kind of, I felt like I'd sort of checked off all the boxes, you know? I mean, it's like I knew it wasn't—I was obviously descending for the last four. I was descending through the rankings, so so like the the the heyday was obviously, you know, early on, giving me being able to crawl up into ninth after such a bad start, then making podium, then still like one more of holding the top 10, and then just kind of slipping through the rankings. And I could see the pace of the race was getting, you know, so intense, the professional—if that's a word, professionality, I don't know—but uh, you know, now they'd opened it up to more than one supporter, uh, you had, you know, so many people like preparing year-round, and uh, I just, yeah, I didn't have the time to invest in it.
I mean, if you, you, if I'd won the lottery and if I didn't have kids, I think I would do it again, uh, maybe even Maybe even just the lottery, you know? So if you didn't have to work, then then you could do a lot more flying, as you know. But, uh, yeah, I think I think it was a good time. It was a good time to stop. I mean, uh, it's it's, uh, you probably, you know, you you've just gone through the same thing recently yourself. Is there's there's a point where you decide it's, you know, you're not you're not getting better? It's it's getting the race is only getting just crazier, faster, madder. Yeah, and, uh, and and you just kind of you gotta, I guess it's time to let somebody else have a go at it.
Yeah, totally, Hansa. What a treat, man! That was, that was really fun. I've been smiling the whole time. That was, uh, uh, it was fun to relive those races with you. Thanks, man. Thanks for
sharing. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, it was definitely fun. I'm glad we got to race each other in, uh, in 2015. I'm glad you got to represent, uh, for another three years and yeah, we're going to see, uh, uh, how, uh, Logan and what's the other Cedar, how, how they do. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm wishing them, wishing them lots of luck. I know they're training hard. I got to see Logan shortly a few weeks ago in Carpinteria and had a really fun sky camp with him last May in the Owens. We just had just stellar conditions, like minimal wind, but good, proper May time, strong thermals. So, yeah, I think it's time to give the next generation a go at it.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, cool, bud. All the best. And, uh, can't wait to fly with you again sometime soon. Yeah.
Yeah. No, no. Thanks. Uh, thanks for having me over again for the, for this chat. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's been great. So it's always a fun walk down memory lane, looking back at all these X outs and look, look forward to flying with you too, man. If
you find the Cloudbase Mayhem valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher, However, you get your podcast, that goes a long ways and help spread the word. You can blog about it on your own website, or share it on social media. You can talk about it on the way out to launch with your pilot friends. I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way, and of course, you can support us financially. This show does take a lot of time, a lot of editing, a lot of storage and music, and all kinds of behind the scenes cost. So, if you can support us financially, all we've ever asked for is a buck a show, and you can do that through a one-time donation through PayPal, or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out. We put a new show out every two weeks. So for example, if you did a buck a show and every two weeks, it'd be about $25 a year.
So way cheaper than a magazine subscription. And it makes all of this possible. I do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors. We get asked about that pretty frequently, but I, for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show, I don't want to do that. I don't like having that stuff at the front of the show. And I also want you to know that these are authentic authentic conversations with real people. And these are just our opinions, but our opinions are not being skewed by sponsors or advertising dollars. I think that's a pretty toxic business model. So I hope you dig that. You can support us. If you go to cloudbasemayhem.com, you can find the places to support. You can do it through patreon.com forward slash Cloudbase Mayhem. If you want a recurring subscription, you can also do that directly through the website. We've tried to make it really easy and that will give you access to all the bonus material, A little video cast that we do and extra little nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show, but we feel like you should hear.
We don't put any of that behind a paywall. If you can't afford to support us, then just let me know and I'll set you up with an account. Of course, that'll be lifetime and hopefully you'll be in a position someday to be able to support us. But you'll find all that on the website. site. All of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought Cloudbase Mayhem merchandise, t-shirts or hats or anything, you should be all set up. You should have an account and you should be able to access all that bonus material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support and we'll see you on the next show. Thank you.