Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Cloudbase Mayhem. Summer has fully arrived. Some big flights going down over in Europe and here in the States, and I'm sure other parts of the world. I haven't been in the game too much with this house build going on, but getting excited to go to Chelan in a few days for U.S. Nationals, and that's about the only housekeeping I've got this week before we get into the show or some event stuff. The X-Beer is coming up, always exciting, and then the Dolomite and a bunch of others over in the Alps, so have to keep our eyes on that. The X-Lakes Challenge up in Scotland is taking place. I think it's in Scotland. Yeah, X-Lakes is in Scotland. I'm a jockey's neck of the woods.
That's taking place this weekend, so some exciting things going down. Super excited to watch the X-Beer this year, see what happens there. Some big names in that one. And the X-Red Rocks is now totally overbooked, and that's been pretty exciting to get all that put together. So that's scheduled for the end of September. We've got Aaron Durogati and Paul Gushelmauer and Tom de Dorlodot, Tanguy Renaud-Goud and Patrick von Cannell, a bunch of legends from the X-Alps and other places coming, so that should be a lot of fun to have all that talent on this side of the pond showing us how it's done. And the Red Rocks Wide Open is another U.S.
Nationals event and pre PWC, which Logan and I are running, and that is filled up real quick right from the beginning. We've still got a few spots. We're keeping up with that. We're open for foreign pilots, so keep an eye on that one as well. That's September 10th through the 17th. It should be a lot of fun to go racing in such spectacular country. So fun things happening in the future. Hope you're getting some. This talk I did quite a few months back. I'm still digging through some of the episodes I recorded this winter as I was getting ready for this house building. I wouldn't be able to record nearly as much, which has been true, but is with Leander. Leandro Estevam Montoya. I hope I'm saying his name correctly, but Leandro and I had a great talk about Vivi flying down in Brazil.
That's not something you hear about the records all the time and all the great comp flying they've got in Brazil. Brazil's obviously got tons of great flying and lots of amazing pilots, but I hadn't heard too much about Vivi, so Leandro reached out to me and shared with me his website, which is in Portuguese, which I don't speak, so I couldn't find too much. There that I could understand, but it was clear that there's a whole group of folks down there getting after it with Vivi. We had a really cool chat about Vivi flying in Brazil, the possibilities, what's been tackled, what's left down there, which is tons, and just shared a lot. He shared a lot of information about how they do it, gear, and how it goes down in Brazil.
He's got a really cool website, hike and fly.com, Tara Mabuse, dot BR with tons of information. And that's what they're all about is just sharing it all, trying to get more people to come down to Brazil and have cool adventures. So that's what this talk's all about. Having adventures. Hope you enjoy and hope you're having a great summer. Cheers.
Leandro, it's good to see your smiling face. I was, I'm excited to have this talk with you. Cause we don't do enough talks with Brazilians. So thanks for reaching out and thanks for telling me about all the hike and fly and bivy stuff you're doing down there. You know, everybody here's Brazil. They haven't been there and knows about the Sertal and all the records that have happened there over the decades, but we don't know too much about hike and fly. So I'm excited to have this chat with you.
Amazing. Amazing to be part of your show. We follow you in. We're in networks and also the show. We heard the show from some, who kind of there in Saladini and other Brazilian pilots. We are excited to see as well, the participation on X-Alps. So it's a pleasure to be here and share a little bit about the hike and fly in Brazil.
Yeah. So tell me where, where are you and where is the hike and fly going down? And, you know, Brazil is like the U S huge country. I know you've got tons of fantastic flying sites, you know, the world cup's going to be happening in Baishu here. In a few days and a place that looks just amazing, but I've only flown the Sertal. So where are you and, and orient people to the type of flying that, that happens where you are?
So they, I'm based in that to buy up. It's a seat near Sao Paulo around the one hour from Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo, you know, it's a big center in Brazil. It's not to Buenos Aires. It's some, but we, and the hearing in that we build it, not only me, I'm trying to be here as someone talking by a team, we have a team doing this kind of hiking fly in Brazil. It's not all about me for sure. And the Dubai has a small pole and small place where there is an, an school, a paragliding school that's becoming a specialized on hiking fly. So the professor, he's also training the 11, the students, the new learning paragliding guys.
So by hiking fly stuff, we'll have a nice place here to hike a mountain about one hour hiking to have a really nice takeoff, a good local flight zone. And so it's nice. So what's by is one of the important place for hiking flying Brazil, but for sure, it's not the build built as one is not the most beautiful one where it can do hiking fly near Sao Paulo in a spirit of Santa in Baixo Gondou. We just have been there. Uh, we just was there. A few weeks ago, amazing place to do hiking fly and be walk trips. But the point is the point that we are trying to show with this scenario of hiking fly began in Brazil around the 2014 2012. Some guys were doing that was doing that in 2008,
but in the country, the paragliding sport developed together with the hang gliding. So everyone was flying from nature from conventional takeoffs. Those ones, when we reach by the car, so we had a lot of more things, really nice place around 2,400 meters. We don't have really high amounts, but amazing place from our country without being explored by paragliding in this new generation of our around 2008, 2012, 2014 began to explore those, those mountains. And I was part of this, this team, let's say this group of pilots doing that. It was a really a, a pleasure. So what you buy, it's one place. But you can do it in by show going to a full governor, Valadares and, and,
and Sarah Daman, Chiquita. It's another spot between some follow here. Joneiro Minas. We can go through this place and I could give more details.
So is it when, when you mentioned those places, those are pretty well known flying sites. Is that because the, is it, I haven't been to any of these places. I've only been to the tower. It's really, really dry. Are these places that are pretty jungly? Are they, you know, is it, or can you hike up and, you know, pretty much in the tops of every mountain has a, has a possible launch or is it really treed and you would have to do some work to create a launch there?
Man, you just touch the exactly points. Those play most of the hiking, fight race. They are challenged is to find the takeoff place. Okay. And when you are trying to do BIV adventures, we have to be really aware about each place we could take off because you have to connect. Those ones, we, it's not easy to, we cannot just hike enough because there is a lot of, there are a lot of trees and we will not be find a place to take off. But those places I mentioned, let's say we have really well, no places for flying Brazil. I have Basho, but do we run a door, Valadares, et cetera. In these places, we have a trail, not the conventional road car, but we have a trail where we can hike up and start the adventure.
I start the hike up.
I can
fly in a conventional, traditional takeoff. But beyond those, you can find really nice place beyond Basho. One do the same, uh, Hugh in the same mountain. Let's say you have another spots to take off and connect for a BV, a BV trip. Uh, we just need to be aware that it will be, uh, uh, let's say high grass. Sometimes the grass is really high and sometimes you have really whole, whole rocks. And those are dangerous. For the lines. Oh, but you can, but it's, it's, but it's possible to find those places and connect, uh, uh, the, this place. So to an adventure, I'm beginning to talk about those very well, very knowing place, very no place because everyone knows about that, but we can, there are another mountains.
Uh, amazing to, to explore. Do
you know what the longest kind of BV in terms of distance and days has been?
Yes. It was just done by a colleague, a really amazing pilot. He's his pilot in a no, a no mega X-Alps. His name is Lucas. And he flew from the top of his spirit to Santo until the bottom. He flew for six. His adventure. It took 16 days. And doing the adventure, he had to pilot supporting him on the beginning. So they began in three, but two of them has had no, this challenge. They were there just for fun. And, and Lucas was really for the challenge. And he had the support from his wife and the distance was, he gets, he gets really bad conditions. So he had to walk around 430 kilometers and he flew around 250.
So the total, Oh, that's a lot of walking. Yes, man. It was a lot of bog.
But this guy, he flew a lot. He's a really amazing pilot. One of the best hiking, flying guys here in Brazil, for sure. More flying than hiking because we have a stronger guys for hiking, but he got his bad luck, bad luck in the weather. So you get,
if you had better weather, could you, could you reverse those numbers? Could you fly, you know, 500 K and walk a hundred K or something?
Yes, for sure. For sure. Because he already did more than 150 K kilometers in the region flying. And those, that's a good marks for a region, the, for a speedy to center region. And it could reverse the numbers. The good, the good news regarding flying speedy to center for hiking fly or big walk inventors are you can connect the, the taking the takeoffs. That's a, yeah, that's that. I think that's simple for someone coming from Europe because you don't have to mind that too much. You, of course you have to have in mind in that better where you're going to take off, but you can, you can try to take off from anywhere, almost anywhere. But in the spirit to Santa and here in Brazil, we'll have to have those spots in mind.
So if you, you, you next takeoff could be around 50 kilometers from you. So you have to do a, at least a good flight for the kilometers. It's a good flight for us. And the hiking 10, 10 kilometers to reach the next point. Okay. If you, if you fly, if you fly just 10, you have to walk 40. There's no, or you have to go back and start again. The next day in the same place, you began the day earlier. Forgive my
geographical ignorance here, but the spirit of Santa is one of the states of Brazil.
Yes. It's one of the states already in the Southeast, but just below the Bahia and in the spirit of something you have a bash of one do near it. You have a governor, but more or less in the same latitude, you know? So it's a, yep. Okay. Yeah.
Wow. And so when he did that whole trip, 14 days, was he, did he have a lot of land or ground support or was he trying to be pretty selfish? Self-sufficient or let me ask a different way. Are there lots of little towns and villages where you can get, you know, plenty of food and water. So you don't have to carry that much, or are you really quite remote and you have to be pretty self-sufficient?
No, I did in this adventure, Lucas had support from his wife and Shelly. He's also a pilot and they pass through a lot of small village and they didn't, they didn't propose to be full Bivo active. So they expand some night, it's in the hole. Okay. That's that, that was the, their challenge. The challenge was to cross all the distance, just flying and hiking, but they could stay in the small cities, et cetera. That's a, so that's what they're, they're, they're specifically challenged, but we had all their adventures here in Brazil. For example, we have a big trail around 60, 60, 600 kilometers. And we made part of it around 400, 400 kilometers, just walking and Bivo walking.
And it's called a transman ticket. It's near on big mountains in Brazil, in between Minas, San Paulo and the spirit of Santa. Those mountains have around 200 for 2,400, 2,700 high. And you same adventure. You can connect the peaks taking off and then you will be able to find these malls cities, but you have to have food for it. See, at least two days because you can land in a really jungles on, you know, really a wild zone. And it's important to have something to, to eat for sure.
For the listeners who are hearing you and getting excited about coming to Brazil, but that haven't flown there, what are the main differences or what would you need to be aware of between doing a BV trip? Say if you've done one in the Alps where, you know, logistics are really easy and there's, you know, there's, you can hike or not hike. Cause there's, there's lifts and cable cars and to every launch you know, there's good access to weather and sell how what's, what's different about Brazil in terms of how you prepare, you know, in other words, could I just come to South Paulo and meet you and have my kind of typical BV kit and, and figure it out? Or is it, is it really require quite a bit more planning?
No, it's a really, really fair and good question. I got, I answered the same for some friends who had more experience flying in Alps than me. I have just some, a few, a small experience flying over there. What I can say in what I read in your books and the books about that, but so the main difference is on hiking. It's here. You, you got in your kit, you can have same kits. Okay. You can have any small tent. Probably we will find some, some, rain. So it's important to be prepared for some rent. Um, and, uh, but we, we don't need to have so, so warming clothes. So it's warming here.
Even flying, you will reach 3000 meters from level C. So it's not so cold as it is in Europe. So we can hike with a light light mess, man, light, light, heavy. And, but you have to pay attention in other, in other stuff. They hiking here probably to be more or less wet. It's, it's humid, but you will see you hiking in the jungle. Probably in the most of the place you have a jungle, you'll see butterflies, two canals, a lot of birds. It's a lot of more life than hiking in the, that I can, I can say for sure. And some snakes is important to be aware of all the snakes and try to pay attention about that. And, uh, and so the regarding the hiking, you'll be, it'll be really fun to, to hiking here, amazing places to see, but a lot of nature, a lot, a lot of nature, sometimes some animals on the taking from the takeoff side, he or takeoff is our more a brother.
The rock is a brother. It's very important to take care of the lines. Yeah. Sharp. Yes. Thank you. Uh, sometimes the grass is high and, uh, it's, we, everything is more a little bit wild. It's important to be aware to be tough for you to be easy, right? Maybe.
Like
a warm Alaska. Yeah.
Yeah. Really? For you, I have impression you don't need to change anything, but just to give an overview to the pilots, the pilots, but then regarding flying, uh, we are conditioned. There are most of the time are not so strong because we are below that. That's part from in Northeast Brazil. When the guys beat the records, the condition is really strong and the wind is strongest ever in our region. The wind is not so strong and the condition is more moderate. Uh, and the, and the guys find here from now, sometimes they get, uh, worried about the wind. They, they feel on the takeoffs because it's different from knobs, but the, you don't need to care too much about that because we don't have valley wings.
So most of the times the wind is stronger on the takeoff, then in the landing zone. So, so that, that's what that means is good to take off easily to take care of all the lines, do it. Uh, really nice take off. Uh, it's good to have that wind. So it's good to have that in mind, but from the general point of view, a guy coming from Europe to do a big walk by here, you don't need so many clothes. You find a lot of water. Most of the mountains will have a water because the, the, the jungle around it. And it to be warmer. Uh, also the, the people leaving when you landed, you will still be to race. You still, uh, a different kind of, so they will come to you. They will compliment you. They say, Oh, I'll come from there. What is this?
How it works? It's that one people. If you learn the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the name of my colleague is living in, in Switzerland. And she comes to have a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a lot. She drunk beer a lot because just embrace the hair. Come on, where from come on the people are so nice in Brazil. Yeah. Yeah. That, that you notice for sure the difference, the main difference you can, you can, you'll find it here. Uh, and yes, probably you eat for free if you learn the net, we had the guys learn the name, the marriage place, then the smart, the parties, and the day participating the part of this kind of use to, uh,
the different kind of, person. It's not so common to see paraglider landing in these different places here. We don't have so many pilots.
Tell me about, you know, the, when I first, my first couple of trips to Brazil were sailing oriented. I sailed up the coast and past Recife and up to the Caribbean. I did a solo trip there a bunch of years ago. And this was before I started flying. This was a long, long time ago though. But it was, I started it. We, I started near Santos or in Santos, so near Sao Paulo. And then, and it, at least in the ports along the coast, you know, security was a pretty big issue then. It was, you know, a lot of it was, didn't feel very safe. And you hear that a lot from some of the Brazilian pilots when I'm, when I'm traveling in other places, they always talk about the certain areas.
Are not, not very safe, but I've never experienced, you know, in the Sertão, you didn't have to worry about that. It felt like to me at all. My experiences were just like what you're describing, just incredibly friendly people in these little villages. And, you know, but that Sertão isn't really near any big population centers, but tell me about the security of going through these areas. Is that a big deal? Do you have to worry about it? Or do you just have to kind of, kind of be smart? It's a
really, really hard question. And yes, the security is a problem in our country, most related with the big cities. But of course we have, since we have poor, really poor people, we have a distribution, rather income distribution, one of the worst in the world. So you have people trying to do your way to find your own stuff. I'm not justifying, I'm just telling that it's an unsafe country regarding security. Yes. In these small villages, it's important to pay attention, but most of the
other villages that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, that are on the other side, trips in in europe and if i was with doing it with a girl i should be a double attention because it's different kind of danger and if i was a girl doing that alone i probably are going to try to have someone with me from a male guy if you are a big guy as you etc it's easier to manage this kind of of risk but we don't have mention of people being stolen in this kind of uh adventure most of the time you you get yeah don't really don't really don't but it's important to be already in the big cities tell
me about the season when when would be the best time to come because i know there's good flying in brazil year round but what would be what's the best time to come yep and actually what what area would you focus on you know so for for me if i was just getting get on a plane and come down there and do some bivy what would be the area of the country that you would focus you know you would point me to and what time of year
an amazing question uh i would like to say serra da mantequera that's the hill a lot of mountains near sao paulo hill in minas gerais because it's my preferred place but it's not the best place to do bivy trips it's one off but it's really challenging a lot of rent even an entire year so and hard to take off hard to connect the takeoff the best place for bivy trips today maybe we can discover other places in the following years but still uh espirito santo and you can do it in uh in the regarding the time zone the best the best time is in the between april and june let's say in june it's our our it's winter so the conditions will be really soft so it will be hard to do long flights
and if you came in january or december february the conditions are really hot but you have a lot of rain at the afternoon the the the clouds every day and the the development is really quicker here than in europe they cause they really develop really really fast sometimes you can get some in some traps so between april maybe march for experience of guys march and before may could be march in june could be the best option also in october november it's good as well because we are in after the winter we are coming back to the summer so it could be nice as well there's
so many you know paragliding is really big in brazil and there's so many really good pilots what do you chalk that up to is that is that the community pushing everyone or you know is it is it just because there's there's
flying or is it the the place and the conditions you know is it i always think of the uk they won the worlds this year they don't have great flying in the uk it's it's pretty challenging there's a lot of rain um you know but they get really good because they can fly in those conditions that are pretty average or low average even you know they get really good at at flying in really light conditions when there's just tiny bits of lift and you know that they create historically have created very well-rounded pilots and that's something i see in brazil that there's just i
think what do you chalk that
up to
yeah but it's it's hard to answer that and i came to paragliding in 2014 so i'm still learning uh how it is this stuff but what we can see is in most in the cross country pilots they they are really competitive pilots and in brazil there is some kind of feeling that's my opinion right i'm not in space but i could say give some examples but we as brazilian they all we are really competitive and we want to be the best in the in that stuff not the best in the entire world that's impossible the best in your group uh let's say about wine if you are a wine someone who drink wine in brazil the best the most sold wine most than 60 70 is the strongest one so no one no one expand time with the the other kind or the nuance of the friend no it's the strongest one so if you are going to fly paragliding probably they will they will try to evaluate regarding the classes in the paragliding they will jump from one to another as soon as possible and they try to reach the distance so if the game is the cross country and distance you try to do the best the distance the longest flight ever every day and you go to the guy to the places where you you will be able to fly the longest flight ever and you will be able to fly the longest flight ever be able to do that and etc and i had to make my flying kishada because it's a big the most formal place to do distance and this kind of and so that's part of our culture to do the best to push the best to try it's more related competitive of course not everyone is like that i'm just doing some stereotypes archetypes but here in our community of our hiking fly we try to avoid that kind of competition we try to still enjoy the that kind of competition that other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other other afraid about some hard takeoffs or highly landing place.
So we try to keep it more or less safe. And we can do good flights, 50 kilometers, 60 kilometers. We are on seat as a really amazing, good flight. Maybe we can change that mindset in the near future. But we try to do this balance between risk and performance. But I think Brazil produce good pilots because that competitivity in the pilots, each small group has his own competitive, and these guys try to do their best. We really enjoy to do the best. It's some kind I can see over here. Like I said about the wine, but that could apply in a lot of other stuff.
Yeah. It's just the culture. Yes. I didn't really know that
about Brazilians. I guess it makes sense. It's not fair to say that as a generic stuff, but we can see that in the guys. Because everyone pilot in a paraglider, it's all right. Someone with... Not pretty weird. Yeah, pretty weird. Yeah.
We're all odd ducks. Yeah, for sure. Just out of curiosity, do you know how many pilots there are in Brazil? And I know that how do you define a pilot? Is that one flight a year? But do you know how many registered your organization?
What's that?
We have an organization, a country organization, a federal organization. It's an association from the pilots. It's called CBVL. I don't know how many of them are active. I can say from our local club. We have a local club here in Atibaia. We have around 300 pilots flying in here near Atibaia. But we are really near Sao Paulo. We are the most near place to fly in Sao Paulo. So we have a big number of guys because they... But in Brazil, it's hard to say, Gavin. I should avoid to give you that number because probably it would be wrong. Yeah. But I can say we are not a real big market for paragliding, for paraglider in the world.
That I can say for sure. And a good thing is that we have South Paraglider here. The companies are in Paraglider. They are producing it in South Brazil. And that stimulates a lot the export in Brazil. Probably if we didn't have the South Paraglider, it should be even... Even less pilots, number of the pilots. But it's hard to say to me. Maybe 5,000 pilots, maybe 10,000. I cannot say honestly. Sorry.
Yeah. That sounds probably pretty similar to the States. Do you feel like it's growing? Do you feel like paragliding is becoming more popular? Are the numbers increasing or does it stay? Because here in the States, it doesn't. It stays kind of the same. There's lots of people learning, but then lots of people quitting. Yeah. So the overall number stays pretty same year after year.
What I can say is the hiking and flying is taking a lot of attention because when we are in flight, flying takeoffs, a lot of people pay a lot of pilots. They really enjoy to see the small pack paraglider, the light paraglider. So they really get... We still have those guys flying with... We really have the equipment. A lot of us are flying with those. So the hiking and flying, it's growing between the pilots. And also we are taking attention from climbers and people doing hiking and trekkers. They're moving to paragliding because today it's easy to fly a paraglider. Let's say if we're not going to do a traverse, etc.
It's not so complicated. The equipment is already more secure than 20 years ago. That's what I mean. It's more easy to join the sport today than 20 years ago. It was a lot more dangerous from our point of view. But the sport itself, it's hard to say if the number is increasing. We don't have really trustable statistics in Brazil. Even the association, some guys don't like the association that much. Other ones, they love the association. And the number, if you are associated, then you will be there. But you... You can be a not active pilot anymore.
Leandro, tell me about, you know, with hike and fly. When I first got into bivvy, this is a long time ago, we used to talk about that it was, you know, in a place like the Alps, you don't have to make it hard. In other words, you can land in the valley. You know, you don't have to top land. You don't have to do a lot of the things that are sometimes required in what I would call more of a kind of sexy bivvy where you're never, you know, you only have the initial hike to the top and then you stay high. And you pick a time in the day before it's really died off and you can, you know, stick it in in some tiny little place and camp there and basically stay high for the duration of the trip. But that requires quite a bit more skill because top landing is, of course, more risky and harder to do.
When you said there's a school there near where you are and there's kind of a big push or, you know, it's pretty welcoming to get into bivvy. How what is your what are you guys telling the newer people? How do you how do how do people how should people start flying bivvy? Mm
hmm. We are today for the students, they hike and fly or bivouac trips. They are more for three days only, most of the time, three days only. And they most of them hiking up at the more at the afternoon or at the morning they spend the day on the mountain, let's say, and they pass the nights. Sorry, let's say the classical one they hiking up at the afternoon so they expand the night on the mountain in the takeoff. They can bivvy there after they took off at the morning, most of them around 10 a.m., 9 a.m., before they can turn strong conditions so they can land in the valley, not in the European Valley.
We call it valley, but it's more flat land and landed over there. They pack everything and they they go to the next mountain. They eat something. Sometimes they eat on the city. Sometimes they eat what they have and we go to the next mountain. That's the classical bivvy trip for the students. So in the so they don't try to do landing in the takeoff, top landing. They don't do top landing. And. And if the conditions are strong, they don't go. Sometimes they don't go. But most of them are really good pilots, but they are starting on the bivvy so they can manage that when they are doing when we are doing the or let's say hardcore or when they are trying to explore new place.
So it's a few pilots, three, sometimes four. And then that's conditions we set a line of possible takeoffs for the next day. Sometimes they are good. Sometimes they're not. That's. Good. And we try to do top landing. We we we really try. Sometimes we can do it. Sometimes we don't. And most of the time you have to hike the next day because the the land to do a top landing in this kind of mountains, you have to have a high base. We don't have mid mid zone land top landing.
Okay. Are
you landing the top? Are you landing the valley? Okay. And sometimes so you have to have a high base. You have to climb a lot. You have to manage to do. We did it really amazing top landings already. And we are at the flush. You just fall down amazingly miserable sometimes and have to most of the time you have to hike again in the next day. Okay. That's the common stuff. And we try to do part of the hiking at the beginning of the night. So we can't let's say one third of the the way we are at the. We did yesterday night so we can be already far away from the small village. So we know smaller is we don't need to be. We avoid to be the train stations or in the in the city itself.
Most of the time we try to find another place. Grass place. We land. We come to there and then we finish the hike in the next day.
Are you typically going south to north? That's just what I have in my mind. Because you're down in Sao Paulo. But here is it north south east to west? What's the kind of typical line or are you mostly trying to do out and backs? You know, would you start near where you are and go north a couple days and then back south or what's kind of the predominant?
Nice. We have a predominant with Northeast Northeast wind here in Brazil. Okay. And most of these mountains even in Espirito Santo and Rio de Janeiro and also between here the general and Sao Paulo. They they you can fly. We not is wind. Okay, and we are at try to do heading with had had with from the south south west to Northeast and sometimes from the Northeast to do this. But a good line here could be we began in the mountains in these mountains and around you have let's say it's sea sea level. You have a few and to a plateau and after that another up you go.
To the are these mountains. We are talking about it. I had a much care for example and we try to begin in the middle of the mountains and reach the ocean that reach the ocean. So we are flying to East not sure if my life but they're playing to it. And so we begin in the high and we can try different peaks after that. We take we jump from the high place to another one. We flying this on and after that we can fly to the to the beach. It's not easy. But it's amazing. It's not easy because again because the trees because they just have a few taking off zones. But one of the most amazing hiking plant leads was in this way. So we did me and my friend. We did a hundred fifty kilometers flying and we walk around less than 10 kilometers because we were able to do a top top landing but two guys from the group they did in today.
So they flew around 60 in the first. Day and in the second day almost 90 and they could reach the ocean. That'd be special. Have some fish. That's always a special and most of the time when you reject and you have that clouds low called because the ocean is 800 meters below than the let's say the the terrain when you began. So we have the clouds are below you. So you reach sometimes 700 meters above those clouds and you have to go down. You have a lot of flu. It's really really amazing. I can share some images with you. It's amazing. And for experience pilots. It's not that hard. It's hard to us because we are be the experience but it's it should be amazing.
But that kind of venture many guys in Brazil don't do this many pilots don't try this. That's why it's important to to have a website showing the route showing the easiest food how we can begin. It's good. Your website has all this kind
of information. So listeners could get on there and kind of do some study beforehand before coming.
Yes, but it's always the new stuff is always a little bit outdated because I'm not able to update it as we are doing. But yes, there is a lot of information over there. The roots to hike up etc. But you need a lot of help on this. We have just a few a few tracks over there. A lot of more work should be done to fulfill that. It's more like a. Collaboration for another pilot to have pilots in South doing hiking flying this kind of ventured in South in a week, etc. And some of them are sending the tracks to the website and we try to keep that. But someday we expect to have a lot more a lot more tracks or routes over there easy to guys to follow. And if you need to put it in English as well, that's our fault.
What
what apps are you using for mapping and topography and roads and that kind of thing? And then what? Briefly lay out your your kind of typical instrument package or you just flying with a phone and you're in a fly sky high. I mean, sorry, in an app like fly sky high and then a small Vario. Is that kind of it?
We would try to keep we each one has their own barometer. Some of them have maps out there. No others don't have maps. But we had we do is we use a lot of Google Earth. Even it's it's easy to use Google Maps as well. We have been using set maps. Yeah, it's one good to take a good trail. Yes. And some guys have a specific apps in the mobile phone for flying. I don't use those. I use the just the barometer because I ran no more or less the mountains and the lines that have that in mind. But for someone coming new, they could take advantage of those you you you said or Google Earth to work good as well. Yeah. Because you can download the offline maps.
Is that is the self
coverage pretty good? Are you guys able to, you know, create a telegram group or something to stay in touch with one another? Are you mostly relying on in reach?
We are relying on regarding you mean regarding the one pilot to speaking with her. Do we have WhatsApp groups? Okay. Well, we contact more within WhatsApp groups. My the guys are really collaborative and that way and everyone loves to share their rules. It's that. We compete to do the best one. Instead, most of the time when someone starts at some kind of adventure, the others provide a lot of support and providing info, giving them tips regarding. We didn't spoke about that. But regarding the landing zones, we don't have those kind of cables coming down from the mountain to the valley. Those ones who took the tell the bleak and other guys in the X of really risk ones. We don't have this kind of.
But we have small cables in the landing zones.
We have to pay a lot of attention to those 20, 10 meters small cable. We already have some accidents on that. Sure. In the valleys. Yeah. So they share this kind of information. Pay attention on these. Or you can land over there or better. Oh, you know, there is a trail that you can use to hike up again to that mountain. If you land in the north, in the north face, sometimes it's on time because we don't we are not so strict regarding where are the things. But it's a trail. It's it's it's important to if you're coming to have contact with someone, we would be happy to to to support to have to give a lot of people. But between the guys here, it's a collaborative. The guys are really nice. I
don't know if you're familiar with this, but there was and I wish it has a cool name. I forget the name of this, but for years and I don't know if they're still doing it. But for years there was a hang gliding. They would cross big chunks of Brazil. With hang gliders. And so it was kind of a bivy, but with hang gliders. So obviously they weren't carrying their stuff up to launch. It was supported by trucks or cars. But they would cover a lot of ground. It was it went on for a long time. Are they still doing that?
You did. There are some initiatives like that. We have a big event in northeast. I don't remember exactly the name right now, unfortunately. But it was something like crossing the Sertão. Crossing the wild zone. And there were guys with hang glider paragliding. Also some guys with a paramotor, you know, a paraglider with motor. And they were covering a huge distance doing an event with cars supporting them. It was really amazing. And with a lot of sponsorship and brands involved with that. I will remember the name to the end.
But that's up in the northeast. That's kind of up in the Sertão.
Okay. Yeah. So
totally different
thing. And really different. In our zone, we don't have this kind of. Most of the adventures are being done by paragliding because the mountains are hard to reach. Most of these mountains are hard to reach with a car. They don't have trails over there. They don't have roads over there. You have to do it with a paraglider. No way to do it with a hang glider.
Okay. Okay. What do you think the... What do you think the most aggressive objective could be? Where could you start and where could you end potentially? Is there a string of mountains? I should have looked closer at the maps before we got on the phone here. But is there a string, like a chain of mountains, the Alaska range or the Rockies that you could start at one tip and get to the other tip a thousand kilometers away or something?
Yes. One of those challenges. Yeah. As mentioned before, the Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara Tara The trail has 900 kilometers, the total trail, and it will pass through the biggest peaks, some of the biggest peaks in Brazil, because we have Pedra da Mina, to 1,700 meters, and it's in the middle of this trail.
And we have several possible takeoff points in this trail, and it will finish beyond Rio de Janeiro, above it, and you will pass through one of the biggest or most important mountains in Brazil, because we have from 10 peaks, the 10 highest peaks in Brazil, nine of them are in this hill. In that chain. Yeah, in that chain, and you can try to connect it. No one did it fully yet, but it is still a challenge. Fabio did most than half. He did more than... I don't know. I don't remember exactly. I remember almost 500 kilometers,
but he could not complete the entire zone because the conditions changed, so we had rain, so it was hard. That's one of the big challenges, but to have other ones in Espírito Santo, as Lucas did, et cetera, that's always nice.
Has that not been done because it's just really hard to get the right conditions to pull it off? There's just too much jungle, too much, or is it just because not enough people have tried?
Both of them. Both of them. It's not easy. Even for a really high experience, it could be challenging because they take in offer just a few, and you have to connect them. But in the conditions, you have to be here ready for the conditions. You can have one week, full week of good weather. It doesn't happen every month. You have to... You have to be here and try and have some luck to accomplish. I think both of them. But the view is amazing and the adventure, it's worth it for sure. We will be trying that for our entire lives if necessary to accomplish.
Yeah. Sounds exciting. Some reinforcement will be welcome. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm so glad you reached out because it just hasn't been something at all on my radar. Obviously, I've known that the flying in Brazil is incredible since I got into this sport because there's, like I said, there's so many great Brazilian pilots, and you hear about it all the time, and it's very reliable to have comps there. And then, of course, the famousness of the Sertau. But I hadn't thought about Bivy that much there, and I don't know why. I applaud you and your group, and all your colleagues that you're chasing it and making it happen. And thanks for sharing your story with us. I really appreciate it. And next time I come down there, I'm coming down with my Bivy kit.
No, please. You will be welcome, and it will be good to have a feeling from the guys from outside. Most of the time we are doing just with Brazilians. We had now the visit from Beatriz. She's from Switzerland, as I said. But it's not – we had Andy over here, but he didn't come join us in this kind of – but it will be good to have opinions from guys from outside to improve our own levels, to learn a lot with you guys, experienced guys. And we, of course, will be able to share something that we know from here, the region, et cetera, what we already did.
Leandro, we've talked quite a bit about Bivy, but you sent me an email about some kind of cool, the highest peak in Brazil. Tell me about that.
Oh, it was really an amazing adventure because the highest peak in Brazil is in Brazil. The highest peak in Brazil is in the middle of a jungle, the Amazon jungle, really north of Brazil, almost 2,000 kilometers from Manaus. That is the biggest center in the north of the country. And the adventure over there is the peak has almost 3,000 meters. And to reach there, you have to press to Yanomami, the indigenous Yanomami guy. So they are the guides for this trail. You cannot reach that place. You have to go alone or you can be killed by them because they control the zone, but they are really friendly if you come with them. Of course, they are developing a...
It's important to say that they are developing an ecotourism program. So in the following years, anyone will be able to reach this peak because they will have a company leading guys over there. But to reach this peak, you have to go one day flying, one day with a car, one day in the ship, a small ship, those fishing ships, really small, and four days walking in the jungle. Whoa. So it's a lot of adventure, a lot of people to reach there. You have... And these guys, the Yanomami, they were rich in 60s. So they are already more or less Occidental person, but they are still speaking in their idiom. They don't speak even Portuguese very well. So you still have an indigenous experience.
They cook for you. They are looking for... They are looking for animals in the jungle to hunt them. It's interesting to see. And you move from the jungle to a plateau at 2,000 meters. So you change a lot regarding the climate. You pass from a really humid jungle to a place more dry and colder. And after that, you do a final step climbing to the peak around 2,993. And no one have... No one fly... No one flew from Triglider from there until 2019.
Sorry for my English. And I had the opportunity to take off from there in January 2019. Do a flyer over the jungle because you have to fly to east. So you just take off around 3,000 meters, let's say, difference from takeoff from the jungle. Oh, nice. So it's...
10,000 feet foot glide. Oh, man.
But you don't go to the gun because there is no place to land in the jungle. So you have to contour the mountain and land behind it in the plateau because you have a plateau behind the mountain. So it was really amazing because you look to each and all sides and you see just jungles and jungles. And you feel really the exposure. You are exposed, right? You cannot do mistakes. The landing... They take off places. It's not that it's short, but it's enough. And so one guy spent 10 days over there. I have to thank God for this kind of... I don't know if I have a reason. That doesn't matter. But I have to thank God because one guy spent 10 days in the peak trying to fly in 2010. And he had no chance.
It's always covered by rain or clouds. It's impossible to take off because you have to see. And I really... God really blessed, let's say, because I climbed it yesterday afternoon. I spent one night in the rain, really strong rain. But in the afternoon, everything was clear. And it just...
Let's say a perfect wind to take off. So it was... Was it
thermic at all? Do you get... No, I did...
I took off around 7 a.m. between 6 and 7 because it was too windy. I risked to try a thermal flight. I have no balls to that.
I just... I was about to take off and do a morning fly. And it was amazing. So when I landed behind the mountain, the guys speaking... Because they recorded it, the guys speaking in their language. It was amazing. In the radio, the Indians, the Yanomami talking in the radio, oh, you need to risk with that guy because he's in the middle of there. If you don't go there, no one will be able to hear. Yeah. I should be there until today. So the guys came and helped me to get out. It was really, really nice. If we get back to there, we need to go with tumbling, gliding to bring some Yanomamis to their own village. It's possible to fly from the peak to their village and it could be a really, really amazing thing to do.
Oh, man, you blow their mind. That would be so awesome. I had a really special experience decades ago. I've been through a lot of these places. You're talking about Manaus and stuff, but I spent a few days in the jungle with a local who had grown up in the jungle. He wasn't Yanomami, but I don't remember what tribe. It's amazing to see the jungle through their eyes because for those who haven't been in the Amazon, in the jungle, you hear everything. The sounds, day and night, it's a cacophony of beautiful sound. It's
beautiful. It's
just amazing, right? But you don't see any of the stuff. To see the sloths and the monkeys and the lizards and the snakes and everything, you have to have lived in the jungle or be with a guide who can go, watch this. Then they make all these sounds and they know how to talk to all the animals in the forest. It's really a very special experience to be in the Amazon with someone who's grown up there because it's their place. They understand it. They know it. They know what they're looking at because we just see this beautiful canopy and it's hard, at least for me. I remember you don't see any of that stuff until you can see it through their eyes and they can point it all out.
I mean, for me, it's impossible either. It's impossible to say. We need to have their help to enjoy the jungle. We look and they see a lot of trees, et cetera, and the small grass and arbustes, but they know the name. They name it tree. This word tree is not there. They don't have this word as a common. They have the name of each. The generic one doesn't make much sense for them. I feel the same experience. We are born in the cities. We are unable to really deal with that environment. I also agree with you. The highest experience regarding this takeoff from the highest peak here in Brazil was not the flight. The flight was amazing.
I'm really glad, but it was the experience. I'm
really glad I got to experience
with the guys in the jungle. I completely follow you on this. I completely agree with you on this.
I'm sure. I'm sure that was really special. Leandro, thank you, man. I appreciate it. Happy flights, safe landings, and keep having fun.
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