Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. A couple quick bits of housekeeping. In the last show with Laurent Barella, I talked quite extensively about insurance. This last couple weeks, I have done a whole lot more research and been on the phone a ton with GEOS, Dog Tag Extreme, which is one that's been around for a long time, but they're now underwritten by a completely different company that was Seven Corners. And now it depends on where, what country you're getting that from. And then also Global Rescue and IMG Signature, which are the two, that kind of combo package that I've been recommending for the last few years. If you go to my website, put in the search term insurance and then click on the article unscrambling insurance, are you sure you're covered for a lot more details.
I've just completely updated that and put in a flow chart for, you know, kind of decision making what you're doing, where you're going, and what you might need. So that's all been updated. The brief of that is, if you hit your SOS on your spot, or your inReach, that activates GEOS. Most people when they just go in and get an account with inReach, they're going to be able to get an account with GEOS. If you hit your SOS on your spot, or your inReach, that activates GEOS.
Most people when they just go in and get an account with inReach, they're going to be able to get an account with inReach, that activates GEOS. They will come and get you no matter what. So GEOS is search and rescue. So this is very, very important. If you land somewhere and you need help, it is much better to use your SOS button on your device than it is to hit your SOS on your spot.
If you land somewhere and you need help, it is much better to use your SOS on your spot. There's many like global rescue that covers rescue, but not search. Those are two very different things. So hit the button. But if you don't have really good health insurance or any other type of insurance, then you're going to have to use the global rescue. you don't have Helivac or some kind of thing covered in one of these other options, you might get hit with a very big bill, unless through GEOS, if you get what's called their high risk benefit. This is again, something you can read about on my website. You can read about it on GEOS. It's $179 a year. There's also an extreme package that you can get that covers Medivac,
which kind of combines some of these travel insurance and medical insurance options like dog tag and like IMG signature. But anyway, at least get that $179 option. Once you get it through GEOS, you can attach it to your device, whether that be spot or inReach. So if you hit that SOS, you're covered. And what could be $150,000, you know, helicopter evacuation bill is going to cost you nothing. So it'll cost you $179 a year. So that's step one. Step two, you need travel and medical insurance. And that's often very difficult to do. You need to have a lot of money in your savings account. And that's often very different than rescue insurance. So rescue by rescue, I mean, evacuation and repatriation in terms of, you know, if you need a major back surgery and you got to get home or you want to be recovering with your family and friends instead of, you know, Timbuktu, then that's what you're going to need something like global rescue for.
So you'll read about that on the website. Then you also need a travel insurance. These are two very different things. So these accidents that have been happening lately in very remote places like Pakistan and India, these folks had travel insurance, but they didn't have evacuation insurance. In other words, they didn't have a way to get home. And that's very, very important. So something like global rescue is 329 bucks a year. It's less than a dollar a day. And it covers this as a $500,000 cap. That's plenty, but it also, but it also is, does not cover travel and medical. That's a different thing. So you'll, you can also just get it for the length of your trip. So it's less than a buck, buck a day. It's just a no brainer. Make sure you get that. Now, travel insurance.
This has been very difficult to navigate through. And these insurance companies, like I said previously, they keep moving the bar on us, but IMG signature does not have exclusions for paragliding and hang gliding. It is a cheaper option, but has really good caps, really good coverage, a hundred thousand for medical. So say you need a medical procedure, where you can get it for a hundred thousand for medical. So you can get it for a hundred thousand
But so, that is in my opinion your best option still. However, that does not cover you if you get hurt in a competition. So, this competition's been a gray area, but they have now defined that for me, and I'm not very comfortable, uh, advocating for IMG Signature if you're going to a comp. It's possible that they could cover it because you're not seen; you're probably not going to be seen as a professional athlete, and there isn't prize money. so that kind of removes the competition from it. But if you want to be safe, and I recommend you should be safe, then get the Dog Tag Extreme. Now this is available in different ways depending on where you're from. You know, there's a Dog Tag UK, there's a Dog Tag US, but it's available to people from all over the world going anywhere.
The nice thing about Dog Tag is it kind of has global rescue and travel insurance coupled together. So it is quite a bit more expensive. But again, this is on my website, go check it out. You can get it for just the duration of your trip. You can get it for as much as 180 days at a time. So you can travel for six months on that. And it covers all the extreme stuff. It doesn't have any exclusions for free flight activities. So a good one to know about. The other bit of housekeeping is our store. You'll hear at the end of every show, I always talk about how you can support the mayhem. One of the things I don't mention is clearly there is our store. We have these awesome new Patagonia t-shirts that have the Cloudbase Mayhem logo and fun stuff on the back.
We just got a big new load of those. And then we always have recaps, trucker hats that are really cool. Every single one's totally unique. So another way to support the podcast, if you will, just go to the website and check out our store and get some cool swag. Thanks. Enjoy the show. My guest today is Chris Gursky. Chris Gursky. That name should be familiar to just about everybody. I can't imagine many of you did not see the video that went viral that he took of him hang gliding for his first time ever in Interlochen and did not get clipped in. It is terrifying to say the least, but he hung on and made it back down to the ground. And this is his story. Enjoy.
Chris, I am super excited to talk to you today. Welcome to the Mayhem. I think just about all of our listeners, I'm sure have seen the video and if they haven't, I'll have it up on the, in the show notes, but thanks for coming on the Mayhem and thanks for sharing your story.
Well, thanks for having me. I'm glad to go over the story again.
Yeah. And you're, you're back in the States, I guess.
Yes. Yes. After our successful second flight.
You had, okay. So I saw Jonathan sent me a link to your, uh, that you were going to go back over and do it again. So that's, that's happened.
Yes. Yes. That was, uh, two weeks ago.
All right. And that went all that you, you, uh, you got clipped in and everything.
Yeah. No hospital visits this time.
And what, so let's start there. What was that like? Was that, were you just shaking like a leaf or were you pretty calm about the whole thing? I
think my wife is more nervous than I was. She was totally freaking out thinking I was going to have some, uh, you know, P PSTD or whatever that is there. Yeah. Yeah. A little PTSD. PTSD. There you go. And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, you know, staring down the same, you know, hill that I left the first time strapped to a hang glider was probably the hardest point to stomach. But, uh, you know, I was ready to roll and we just, uh, I just went with it and it was fantastic. Was
this a kind of getting on the horse kind of thing or you, you know, to go to the same place there at interlock and the same launch, was that, is that really, uh, that was part of the plan from the beginning? Like, listen, I just got to do this right from the same place and get it right.
Yeah, it was, uh, you know, a weight was lifted after I, after I did it, but just going back to the same exact spot, you know, I think helped help with that. Um, My I've been offered to go on flights, I mean, all over the world
by people,
you know, I was offered by the the world champion hang glider. uh, wanted to fly me in the Dolomites and, you know, all the local places wanted me to go with them. And, you know, it just worked out that we, we got a chance, uh, due to the, uh, tourism board of interlock and to, uh, go back to Switzerland and do it all over again, have our vacation that we set out to do in the first time.
Yeah. And, uh, when did that happen on your first vacation? Was that like day one?
Day one of our first vacation.
Okay. So, Hey, um, like I said, at the top of the show, because this is a podcast and it's long form, uh, I know you've given a lot of interviews that have probably kind of brushed over the sequence of events, but give us the full play by play. Uh, the video is of course, just terrifying and you are an animal, dude. I don't know how you hung on that long, but I want to know just, uh, you know, like, were you guys talking to one another? Give us the whole, give us the play by play. What happened?
Well, my wife was, uh, paired up with another pilot and, uh, she, uh, the pilots were setting us all up, you know, beforehand, uh, getting our safety harnesses on and everything. And, you know, it pretty much, it was a conversation talking what they're doing, what we're doing next. And, you know, we, we, I practiced running with my pilot and my wife did the same. And, And, you know, before you knew it, my wife and her pilot were just sailing away. She was the first off the hill.
So, you know, we, we, I said, I took my GoPro up to the back of the glider and, uh, we got underneath and we got, you know, uh, the pilot was doing something behind me. It was my first time I've never been hang gliding. So, You know, bad me that I should have paid more attention to what was going on around me. Yeah, that's not
your responsibility.
A little jet lagged and, you know, first day of vacation. And it was just, the scenery was fantastic. And so, you know, we lined up and we're ready to go. And he's, uh, he just says, you ready? Let's go one, two, three, run, run, run. And supposed to run until your feet leave the ground. Well, as soon as my feet left the ground, I just sunk straight down. Gravity was taken over and I was trying to figure out what the heck is going on. And, uh. You know, it didn't take me too long to figure out that the only thing holding me in the air or on the glider was my hands.
Oh man. And was, were you guys talking at that point or did he obviously realized right away what had totally thrown his balance off? I would imagine. And, you know, his CG and everything must've gotten all wacko.
Yeah. He, um, there wasn't a whole lot of talking going on. I was just trying to figure out. If I did something wrong, you know, there's the bar that you flipped down to put your feet on. I'm thinking, Oh, maybe I, maybe I need to drop that and put my feet on it. That'll level me out. And, you know, I didn't know what was going on. So there wasn't a whole lot of talking. I think he was trying to figure out what had happened and what he needs to do next. So there was just a few, uh, you know, words here, hold and hold here and, you know, and not much after that.
So what's going through your head when you're, you know, clearly too high to jump. Yeah. Did that ever, did that ever hit where you, was that just, you know, that, that was, that happened long ago, you know, was, was that ever, you know, when you were 10 feet off the ground, were you thinking like, Holy cow, should I, or were you just too confused?
Yeah, I was too confused. I mean, there was 10 feet off the ground was probably two seconds into the, into the flight, you know? So, and a lot of people on the video commented, how can we didn't jump off right away? You could have just jump it off. But. How would you know?
Yeah. How would you know? I can't imagine doing that.
The view from the GoPro too makes it look like it's a lot less than it is. So, you know, by the time we're going over this little farmhouse, it's, you know, well above a little farmhouse, which is pretty high. Yeah. That hurts. Yeah. So it was either a broken wrist or broken legs back and whatever else.
After all these, after all this time, is it hard to talk about it? Does it bring back weird memories or is it, is it, uh, I, you know, I lived through that and it's, I don't know, is it cool or is it scary?
Um, I never really reflected back that much. I, I'm kind of a moving forward kind of guy. So, you know, watching the video really doesn't bother me. There's, there's certain things that'll, you know, just thinking about some of the conversations me and my wife had after the fact that, you know, what if we switched pilots, uh, you know, what if I did? What if I did fall on our first day of vacation and, you know, and bought the farm, you know, what would she have to have gone through to, to handle everything by herself out there? And, you know, for, you know, we had a lot of conversations.
Yeah. Okay. I, I, I took you off on a tangent there. So you're, you're, you're hanging on for dear life kind of right away, trying to figure out what's going on and the pilot's trying to figure out what's going on. So that's in the first kind of, I don't know, 10, 20 seconds, I imagine.
Yeah. And then, uh, I, I, from the video aspect, I don't remember making that first right turn. I think I was just looking up, trying to see what else I can grab onto. Um, and I, it looked like we're making a big turn to maybe take a quick landing or turn even further back to the hill and landed back at the hill or something. But I think maybe because of the, the, the weight that I was putting on myself, I was pulling on the one side of the, uh, the glider caused the turn. And I don't know, I'm not a pilot, so I don't know. But then once we came out of that turn and we started heading back down the hill, I was like, this is, this is going to get hairy.
Yeah, man.
At that point. I mean, from, from the viewer's perspective, it's like, there's, there's no way this dude's going to hang on. I mean, tell me about your physical regimen. I mean, was this just adrenaline that had you pinned to this guy or, uh, I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, are you the kind of guy that can do 300 pull-ups?
No. Um, you know, I, I try to work out, uh, we do, I do a lot of, uh, uh, hand gripping. I had this little hand gripping ring. I, I used to work, you know, a 30 minute drive each way in the morning and evening. And I had this little round rubber donut. That's a hand grip. Yeah. And every day I would just squeeze that as much as I came with one hand, dry with the other hand. And I just kept switching hands. It was something I did on the interstate every time I drove in. Who knows? Who knows if that was it? Yeah.
So other than that, you know, I try to work out, but I'm not a beast in the gym or anything. I, I think, uh, me being able to, to grab on and hold on that long was, uh, just, uh, you know, adrenaline and sheer will not to let go.
And so when, when do you know, okay, there's definitely really something wrong. And if I let go, I'm going to let go. I'm going to drop. I mean, was there, was there a thought like, okay, I'm just in a weird position or it was, when was it clear that you let go your, your, your toast?
When it really sunk in is when we made the left turn back toward the edge of the hill again. And, uh, you know, I, I looked down and it really went through my head. I looked down and I'm just thinking, this is absolutely a beautiful, perfect day. And uh, the, the trees are changing colors. That's all, you know, going through my head. I live in Florida. We don't have seasons that changed down here anymore. So I'm, I'm looking at the trees and they're changing colors and it's a crisp, cool air and seeing the farmhouses. And I looked down and I'm like, this is such a beautiful day. And I'm picturing myself falling through the air. And right then and there is when I decided that that's not an option. So I just, I didn't freak out. I didn't, you know, get excited.
I just concentrated with everything I had. And just, just locked on. And that wasn't, uh, you know, letting go wasn't an option.
And was there, so after that point, uh, were there, were there times where it was like, I can't do it. I can't hold on, you know, sweaty palms or, you know, cause there's a couple of times in the video where you're, you're definitely trying to like readjust. Is that what's going on? Were you just fried?
Yeah. My, my left hand, I'm, I'm a righty, so I'm not sure where I got the strength in my left hand.
It was just latched to that bar. And uh, for some reason, I don't know if it was the winds, the motion going back and forth, but I could not get a good grip on my right hand. So I was slowly getting lower and lower on any place to hold on to on the pilot, which, you know, ended up on the, holding onto the fabric of his pant leg, which really wasn't nothing at all.
And now, okay. Through this whole thing, is he ever saying anything or was he just focused on trying to get that thing in?
I think. I think he was pretty well focused on trying to get it in. I mean, he had a hand in my harness for a while and he, by the time we were getting down further, you know, he wanted to get two hands on the bar again to actually land the thing. So he, he, he says, grab my leg and he, you know, I feel him putting his leg against me. He's grabbed my leg. And that's when I moved down and he put his hand, you know, on the bar and then he put his hand on top of mine and then back on the bar. There wasn't, there wasn't much. Conversation. I think he just said, hold and, you know, and you know, I was, I was knowing that was the only thing I had to do was what I was going to do.
What was the, what was the, what was the worst point? And what was the best point by, and by worst point, was there, was there a moment, a time where you're like, I can't do it. I'm not gonna be able to hang onto this.
I think the best and worst point were right at the end. Um, you know, I'm, um, I see the grounds coming up. And, uh, uh, that's, that's probably the best point. Uh, the grounds coming up quick. The worst point was my hand on the bar was opening. I mean, I was, I was done holding onto that bar. So it was, I was losing my grip. And uh, so it was kind of a, yeah, I'm almost there and my hand, I'm like, I'm losing it. So as soon as my feet did scrape the ground, it looks like I dropped off because of the ground. I don't have the GoPro footage, but, uh, my feet did actually scrape the ground while I was holding on and that's what pulled the rest of my grip free.
And then how'd you, how'd you get your wrist?
Um, I think when I came down, I, I put my hand down to brace or, or something. It was so, it was so fast. I don't even remember much of that. I know I tumbled a few times cause my, my forehead was scraped a little bit. My left bicep was shredded. Yeah. Uh, my shirt was shredded on that side. Uh, I knew I broke my wrist. I, my, you know, knees got scraped on the dirt pretty good. I probably flipped a couple of times. Yeah. And then when it all was over with, I just sat up and tried to assess, you know, I'm, I'm alive now. Now what, you know, and I just kind of felt a dull pain in my wrist and I looked down and yeah, it was all bulged out and I was like, well, my wrist is broken.
Yeah. But you must've been like, did you do the whole like body pat down? Like, Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. I was taking,
taking inventory, you know, everything's still here. The wrist is broken and I didn't feel anything else was, nothing was bothering me. So you know, I, I was just like, Oh God, first day of vacation. I went through that. Now my wrist is broken, you know, and that's when the pilot came, you know, unhooked himself and came running back up to me. And, uh, he was, he was like, just don't, don't get up. Don't get up. Just stay still. He thought I was going to go into shock and freak out. And you know, so I'm, I'm just, I told him, I said, I said, my wrist is broken. I says, I'm fine. He's like, just don't get up, just don't get up, just wait a little bit. It might take some time. Just, just let's let's wait a little bit. So I judge, I reassured him. I says, I'm fine.
I can stand up. I says, you know, I need to, you know, get my wrist taken care of. So we stood up and he phoned ahead. head to the the his group and, uh, I guess they sent a van out to the closest street, so we had to walk through two fields and I had to crawl underneath two electric fences.
to get to get to the road, and he's like, "Come on, the hospital's right over here. We're just get in, we'll go right over there." And I, I said, I says, "I'm not going anywhere until my wife was in his car." Right? Okay, then she at this point had no idea what, sure, she's just
having one in the sky, right? She's probably having a
Blast, well, the the footage that wasn't on my video was the empty glider sitting in the field because my GoPro was still running, right? And you can see my wife come in for a landing in the background. Oh, so they landed where you did? No, they landed in the actual landing zone. We landed quite short of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, no.
I mean, that was the one thing I saw in the video where it was kind of kudos to the pilot he did. It was very clear he was trying to get you on the ground as soon as he could, and that, yeah, you know, it would have been... I, I know there's been just unbelievable blowback, uh, for that guy, and, uh, so I guess that's what I should ask you next: Do you guys stay in touch? Did you ever have, did you ever get to talk about it with him? Did you, you know, what were, what was his side? We
Really didn't, um, I think at one point, uh, shortly after, uh, we were back, uh, he sent me a letter. It was like
I'm not sure if it was, uh, you know, something he was that he had to do per the Swiss hang gliding association or whatever, but you know, no, we haven't stayed in contact. I mean, he stayed with us at the hospital, at the ER, till I went into surgery. I told him and my wife, I told my wife, just, you know, have him take you back to the hotel. It's 11:30 at night now, and, uh, you know, go get me some fresh clothes for tomorrow, and I'm going to the surgery. It's, there's nothing you're going to do for me. He was cool; he stayed the whole time. He drove her back to the hotel, picked her up the next morning, brought her, went and got my meds. You know, he, he stepped up. I mean, he, I know he, you know, made a mistake, a near-fatal mistake on my part, but he stepped up after the fact, and you know, he showed he was a, he was a, you know, stand-up kind of guy and wanted to, you know, do everything he could do.
You know what's happened to his license, or do you know what's going on with the Swiss Federation? Did well,
We, we didn't. I was contacted by, oh, so many people. Uh, the FBI attache to Switzerland contacted me, uh, trying to get a hold of me for them and the Swiss prosecutor, you know, got a hold of me and wanting to know if I wanted to press charges and this and that and, you know, I was well past that point, you know, at that point in time. So I, I just, you know, I said it and I'm not gonna go there. I'm trying to stay, stay positive, yeah. Take the high road, you know, yeah.
Mistakes do happen. This is a bad one, but they, yeah, they do happen. And then I don't—not to fill us with more dread—but all the ones that I've heard of that have, uh, that you know, non-clippins have been fatal. Um, so there's, you know, he did some things right, for sure. And yeah, well, and you did really, you hung on, God, yeah.
I haven't, uh, I did some Google searches on my own and I, I really hadn't found anybody else that, that survived, uh, being not clipped in, um...
Were you—did you torture yourself with, you know, uh, comments and all that kind of stuff, and the interviews and that kind of thing? I—I tend to not look at that at all, and so I didn't look at at any of yours, but uh, I don't think there would have been any about you, but uh, about the pilot, I'm sure he just took a shellacking, yeah.
Uh, people get some dirt out of me, and I'm—I didn't go there. I, I stayed on the high road. I stayed positive, you know? I didn't mention names, I didn't mention even a location at that point in time. So I, I kept positive about the whole thing. I didn't want to, you know, point fingers and point blame, and there's—there's too much of that in the world these days. Every time you turn on the news, it's nothing but negative, negative story after another, yeah.
No good on you for that. Was there ever any, uh, did you see Sully? Yeah.
I did, I did.
Remember the opening scene, and there's like, you know, you know, the buildings are burning and he's having this terrible nightmare about how it could have gone down. Was there any of that in your mind? Uh, was there any just like sleepless nights, or I don't know, any, any of that kind of, just, you know, cold sweats?
Not really, not really. Um, I'm, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm kind of a, you know, moving on forward kind of person, and uh, I really didn't, really didn't, uh, think about it way too much. My wife probably did; she, uh, she was scared for me to go the second time more than I was, I think. Did she go? Oh, yeah, she's, she's flown. She has two successful flights. I, I only have one right now.
So you guys both went again in interrocken, yeah?
yeah that is
awesome she
insists It's just that I went first this time.
That's so cool. And everything was perfect. There was no problems.
Oh, yeah. It was fantastic. Yeah.
I mean, that's how it's. It's almost always is, um, in the article of your second flight that no, so I read the one that you were going over again. I didn't know that it happened, um, there was mention that, you know, if it goes well, I might get into this. Where's your head on that now? Is this something you might want to pursue? I
think we both, we still both want to, we still both want to try going solo. Awesome.
You should, you should, and you both should. That's really good to hear. Is it? It is magic, and I think the odds are with you, man. Yeah,
That's what I kept telling people, you know, "You're going back again." I'm like, "What are the odds something happens again? If something happened again, I was... it was meant not to be, I guess, right?"
Uh, I'm curious about that. You had this, it almost seems like a clairvoyant moment on that first flight where you're looking around and going, "Man, this is really beautiful." That... that's an interesting... it doesn't really sound like panic hit. It wasn't really panic, it was more like, "Man, this is..." I mean, I, I, I asked that with a smile because, uh, I, I have been... you know, we're pilots, you know, you, you will have a situation or several in a lifetime of flight, and I've certainly had, had some. And it's, you know, rock climbers talk about that, you know, they can be thousands of feet up on a, on a, you know, free climbing, and, uh, and you get so in the moment and you're like, "Oh my god, I'm going to be..." That, you know, a tiny little flower is just the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.
You completely lose track, or you don't really care that you're thousands of feet off the ground. That becomes irrelevant. It's more what's right in front of you. Yeah.
I mean, coming from floor, I've lived up north in Chicago area, and you know, we had the the hills in the winter, but nothing like Switzerland. And I've been in Florida for the past 30 years, so you know, it was a beautiful sunny day, and you know, it's kind of, it's so picturesque, it's almost, you know, it boggles your mind a little bit. And, uh, you know, I that just at that one point, I looked down and I just looked at the trees and I was like, "That's absolutely beautiful. I'm gonna fall to my death here." Yes, really.
So that went through your mind as well? Oh,
Yeah, oh yeah, wow.
Was there, was there, um, because often when you're above, you know, like tree canopy and that kind of thing, was there, was there ever a thought like, "Oh, yeah, you know, I'll fall, but I could probably make it," because I, you know, people have this kind of like bird feeling when they're, when they're perched above something really high where, you know, you have this kind of like, "Oh, yeah, I could land that." Of course, yeah.
No, no, I mean if, if, if we were like, maybe scraping the tips of the trees, I could have thought for a moment that, you know, I could grab onto one of these and, you know, and then and make it, you know, because we were young, we grew up in
and let it bend over to the tree next to us. And you know, we did all that crazy stuff when we were kids, but I'm 55 years old now. I can't do that. I
Don't I don't want this to, this is, this is kind of corny, but has this, uh, changed your life in any way? Has that made you more appreciative of anything, or I don't know, approach? Do you approach risk differently, or I don't know, anything? I
Don't think I'm going to, you know, live any different than I did in my early years. I don't think I'm going to, you know, it was an experience, and now that I've really got through it, now by going again, it's, it's we're just going to keep doing what we've been, we've been doing. Uh, you know, we like to travel, we like to try something adventurous every so often. Like I said before, it was, you know, ziplining was our thing for the last several years, and so we, we tried something different this time. Oh,
Man, hang gliding is a huge step up from zipline. You're on the right track, you're on the right track. That is very cool. And why, just out of curiosity, why hang gliding, not paragliding? What was the choice there, uh?
Well, it was on my wife's deal, uh, when we, we set up a, uh, a trip somewhere. She's, she, you know, I, I go above that, I'm going to Switzerland and whatever, you know? So my wife digs into it, and she looks at all the different places we can see and all the different excursions we can do, and you know, ziplining was usually it, but she saw that and she was like, "You"
know I'm going to
Switzerland and whatever you
know, so my wife digs into it and she looks at
And hang gliding was the first one she saw, so I think she was like, "Oh, yeah, she wants to do this." So I'm like, "Yeah, okay, I'll do it." They
Are awesome aircraft. That's, that's, you know, kudos to her. You guys sound like you have a really special relationship, yeah.
We, we, I say, it sounds corny, but we, yeah, we complete each other.
Oh, that is awesome! That's amazing. Well, I hope you get to enjoy this kind of new fascination together. It's a—it's a great couple's thing to do. I mean, flight is, you know, it just takes us back to being kids. We all wanted to fly, oh
Yeah, and and paragliding is not out of the question. I mean, I've I've connected with so many cool people from the hang gliding and paragliding associations, you know, around the globe, and they're so cool. And I've seen umpteen paragliding videos now, and I'm like, "That looks really cool too," so
There's the community is amazing across the board, you know. Hang gliding, paragliding, you name it, you know. Sailplanes, there's a lot of people that are doing paragliding and paragliding and paragliding. There's, there's many pursuits, uh, and they're all, you know, aviation is is pretty bitching, oh.
Yeah, yeah, the uh, the people that met us out there, uh, from the Swiss hang gliding association, the president and the director and the former president met us out there, and they were a bunch of cool guys. One was a hang glider, the other was a, you know, paraglider, and they were, you know, barking back and forth about which one's better, but you know, it's all, it's all good. It's all good. It's skiing.
snowboarding man, that's—that'll be an argument that'll go with us forever. But yeah, well, I mean, the nice thing too is you kind of have a free ticket anywhere, you know? You come out here and visit me in some valley, somebody's taking you for a ride, so
I've been offered, uh, I'm sure many different, yeah, I'm sure
That's, that's terrific. Yeah, that's, that's the, that's a bonus of having to go through that. You got free lessons, free gear, free tandems, whatever you need. The community will, will be there for you. We'll take care of you. Um, what's the most annoying question you've had to answer over and over again? I hope I haven't asked it.
Um, it's, it's generally all the same questions. Um, uh, you know, it's a lot of them concern the pilot. I mean, a lot of the comments on my Facebook the page, on the comments for that video, were, you know, what
the hell
Is is the pilot still, you know, alive? Is he still in business? Is he still? I just, you know, I just let those slides through. I'm not, yeah, from what I hear, from what, uh, uh, I've found out, we're gonna take some time to go look him up, just to, just to say hi, because you know, he did, he didn't, you know, stay with us at the hospital, and he ended up being a cool guy, but, uh, apparently he's, uh, running his own, uh, tandem business in Interlaken, oh.
Wow, yeah. He had to step out on his own to, yeah, interesting. Yeah, what does that, does that make you feel any anyway? No.
I mean, he told me, uh, you know, when we shortly after it happened, that he's, he's decided he's not, he's never going to fly again, and this and that. And I, I wouldn't want someone to give it up because of, you know, an accident. I mean, it was probably overwhelming for him at the time, sure, but you know, he's telling me stories about how when he was hang gliding, that, you know, an eagle came in, just kind of went in formation next to him, and said it was the coolest thing ever. And I'm like, you know, you can't, you can't give it up now, then, right? You know, that just, that story alone, I mean, I would love to have that happen to me, yeah.
I mean, and yeah, and it will, if you keep flying, we have amazing bird contact when we're flying. I mean, they're so much better at it than we are, and they're, you know, they're one of our best visual cues, you know, for climbing and finding thermals and finding good glides, and you know, they're, they're the naturals, but they're also so, you get, you know, when you go and fly in places like beer and India, you get these massive vultures that just come and just carve right along the side of the wing. When I was doing a, one of the coolest experiences I've had, uh, parry lighting was when I was doing this Alaska traverse a few years ago. My, my partner Dave had left and I was kind of finishing on my own, and I was real late at night and I was kind of bubbling along, and you know, the sun never really sets that time of year, but the sun was real low and the thermals were kind of easing off, and I had to get across this huge glacier, massive and, uh, and I knew I didn't have the height, but so I was kind of just, I was kind of able to maintain at the end of this little ridge before, and I was kind of, god, should I go?
Should I go? No, I don't have enough height. And I was thinking, well, maybe I should just land up here and I'll camp and I'll try to fly across in the morning when things heat up. And, uh, this eagle, huge golden eagle, came out of a tree literally right where I was, and he kind of just looked over at me, and you could tell he was like, follow him. He was like, I'm not going to, and he took me out away from the hill a little bit, and we got in this very light climb, gained, I don't know, much, a couple hundred meters, maybe 300 meters or so, and then we both flew across the glacier. It was like he knew where I wanted to go and he knew I needed help, but, uh, man, it was, it was
That's awesome. That's, yeah, that sounds so cool. It
Is, uh, all, all of it's very cool. Yeah, I mean, I, I, uh, I'm sure I can't imagine that the flack that he took, and you know, it's, it's just a reminder of those, you know, the basic things. You know, we had a couple, you know, not a couple, but the major accidents happen every year from just really silly—we call them, you know, schoolboy errors—is what that was, you know, when you just forget to clip in, uh, in paragliding, people forget to clip their, you know, their leg straps, so they launch and they just fall out of their harness, and, uh, you know, and it, it happens, and it's shocking that it happens, but it happens every year. People make mistakes, and unfortunately, you were on the wrong end of that one.
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think the only time that, you know, he wasn't with us in the, in the hospital was when he had to leave for a moment to like lose his car or something in the parking lot and, uh, that's when my wife started asking me questions because she still didn't know what happened when I was in the air. She's like, "What? What happened?" Uh, did you, you know, did you come in on an angle? Did you hit your arm on the ground? Or how'd this happen? I said, I said, "This is the closest to death I've ever come in my entire life." And she's like, "What are you talking about?" And I'm like, well, I wasn't. She had no idea. I says, uh, I, I wasn't attached and that's when her jaw hit the floor and she's like, "Are you kidding me?" Was she pissed? That guy, she was pissed.
Um, you know, she soon as he came back in, she's like, "What the hell happened?" You know, started seeing a question in him and, you know, he couldn't really explain himself. It was just, uh, he missed that one step, human error, you know? And yeah, yeah, she was when I, when I pulled up in the van, you know, before we went to the ER, she's standing there and she's, she, she doesn't drink beer, but that's all I had, so she's sipping a beer and she had a look on her face like that was the best thing. I mean, her face was lit. She loved her flight so much, her face was so lit up and you could just see it. She was glowing, you know? And, and, uh, she sees me in the van and I kind of crook my face and I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry." Yeah, come on, we gotta go. Was
it a bad break um
the, I guess, when I impacted my hand, it, it kind of blew the top of the bone outward, so I had to have a plate and seven screws put in is
it all back to normal now
It's still stiff, but you know, it's—it's good. It's good. I had the—I had to have the plate removed because a tendon was rubbing on it, and then I had to have another surgery on my left shoulder because I tore my bicep tendon from holding on to that bar for so long. Yeah, yeah.
I think I read about that. Wow. And so what I... so I had, I've had bicep tendon surgery from a mountain bike crash, a rotator cuff, and stuff. Did that, did that also require surgery?
No, no, uh, well, the—the, they, I guess the bicep tendon was just split; it wasn't tore all the way. So they, they kind of put a buttonhole in my bone or whatever and reattached it, and my rotator cuff was fine.
Okay, so let's go. Let's finish on this—this flight you just took. Uh, take me through that one. How, you know, how long was it? Was there ever any point we were like, "Oh god," or was it just like, "Okay, this is what it was supposed to be"? Uh,
We went with a different provider this time, uh, but Bumblebee took us up, and what a great bunch of guys! Great bunch of guys. I mean, I like, I posted my video on YouTube today, the updated one, and uh, I just said, "The Bumblebee guys," I said, "Uh, you know, even if I go over there and I'm not flying with them again, I just like to go hang out with them because they were just so cool and fun to be with, you know?" Um, they, uh, they made me feel at ease right away, and I think my wife needed a little more than—I think she needed some sedation or something, because she was totally freaking out. Thought I thought I was gonna have a, you know, an incident, yeah, or something from
Here's some diapers, honey. Yeah,
Yeah, so she's, uh, she's all freaked out and, you know, these guys just made it all good and we, we, uh, we all got, uh, strapped in. There was two other couples, there was another couple going, so there was four, uh, wings all together going out and, uh, you know, they talked everything through. I had, uh, uh, gang cease fly me, no way you
Had Wolfie fly you? Yeah, oh my, I don't know if you've heard his podcast. We've had him on the podcast; you were in very, very, very good hands. Yes,
Yeah, he was, uh, he was awesome. And then Toby, uh, the the bumblebee owner, uh, he flew my wife, and that's crazy that Wolfie took
You, oh, I gotta reach out to him. That's, that's terrific. Yeah, he's, he's the best of the best, man. You couldn't have been with in better hands than Wolfie.
They said they were all kind of fighting over who was going to fly me, so yeah.
That's an honor. That's an honor. And how long was the flight? Was it thermic?
It was about 10 minutes, I think. Uh, you know, we did a few tricks. It almost got canceled because it was supposed to rain the entire day.
Oh, okay. Okay, so it wasn't a big day.
no but it it cleared up and uh it was uh it It was a beautiful morning, so we took off, and we took off. It was about a 10-minute flight, so we took off, made a left over the side of the hill, and then we came through. the center of Interlochen and landed in the field, downtown Interlochen. It's
one of the most beautiful places on earth.
It's fabulous. It is fantastic.
And then did you run to the pub and grab a beer?
I had many beers in Switzerland when I was there. Good on you. Good
on you.
So have you and your wife sat down and decided, okay, let's do this? And if so, where are you going to go and when do you start learning?
It's probably going to be after the first of the year. We've been talking to a few people. Nick Greece has been talking to me on Facebook a little bit. Yeah. And he was trying to pull some strings and see who was. Who we can hook up with. And I think Wallaby Ranch is on board. And I've heard Wallaby Ranch would do it anyway, take us up again anyway. Totally. Yeah. This
is the, I guess there's some very good things about coming out of what you did. You are now connected to the best of the best. If you're talking to Nick and you're getting rides with Wolfie, you're right up there at the top, man. So that's fantastic. And Nick's a very good friend of mine and incredibly well-connected. And yeah. Runs the magazine. And so that's perfect. You're in very good hands.
Well, it seems like everybody in the organization, they're just, everybody's so cool about it. Everybody is just on board and let's do this. And everybody's so cool about it.
Yeah. Yeah. Chris, thank you so much, man. Thanks for sharing your story. I wish you and your wife all the best. I hope we get to fly together someday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope this budding fascination just grows and grows and you guys become pilots and we see each other at Cloudbase someday.
Sounds cool. Yeah. I'm looking forward to, you know, doing a solo flight next. That'd be, I think that would be the best outcome I can do with this whole situation.
Yeah. You know what? I'll, we can end on this. People that have listened to the show have heard this a million times. I'm sorry. But, you know, I did a couple of tandems first. I've never hang glided and I need to. It's just epic. But, you know, the first couple of tandems I took paragliding, I was kind of like, eh, you know, it's pretty, it's nice. But, you know, but when you take the controls on your own, it's just a whole nother sport. It's awesome. So I think you're in for a big treat there. I mean, tandems are great too. But, you know, when you're in charge of your own life and you're the pilot in command, it's pretty awesome.
Yeah. And you know where you're going. You know where you're going to start swaying. I've seen people getting whipped around, you know, on a tandem and I'm like, you know, if I'm not controlling that, I don't know if I'd like that.
That's usually about when the puke starts.
Cool. Oh, Hey, one more question. How many people have seen that video?
It's at 9.7 million right now, but you know, there's other avenues that shared it and it's, it's gotta be way up there now.
Wow. Was there any monetization of that? Through YouTube? Were you, were you, were you a clairvoyant enough to run some ads or something?
As, as viral as it went so quickly, I was not prepared for any of that. I, I, you know, I was joking with my wife and we put that out. I'm like, yeah, for me to monetize this, I need a thousand followers and 4,000 hours of view time. I got, I got 19 followers, you know, it's mostly my family. Right. And I got, and I got no view times. It's just silly videos that I put of our vacations on and, and ended. So that first day it was at 600,000. The next day it was at 4 million. It was, I got calls from every news outlet in the world. It seemed like it was incredible. So I licensed it through viral hog. I couldn't handle every request for it. So I just licensed it through viral hog and yeah, I made a little money on that. It's not going to let me retire, but you know, it's all good.
That's good. At least you got something. How did you handle the income? How did you handle all that? How did you handle the press?
It was, it was extremely difficult. I mean, every, every message format, I had like two, three different email addresses. I do photography on the side and this and that. And it was nonstop. My phone was maxed out of messages. A messenger was going off. Every single aspect was just overloaded and I could not even start to think of replying to everybody.
Did you, did it, did it? Did somebody with the PR did you get like an agent or something to handle it or did it, you know, I should handle it. Did you, did you slowly go away?
Yeah. Yeah. It peaked, you know, the viral video peaked and then it just kind of slowly faded away. It seemed like people in the UK are still interested in the story. I keep getting calls from them. I think, I think in the U S since it's turning out to be a good story, they're not interested.
Oh, that sucks. Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. We're in a terrible place on that side of things, but wow. Okay. Well, that's, that's interesting. Yeah. And I'm glad I'll ask that one that, yeah, that must've been just crazy. We had a, an accident. I have a boat business, a kite surfing expedition business. So it's a boat that kind of slowly goes around the world. And we had a pretty, I shouldn't talk about it now as it just opens up a can of worms, but we had a very, we had an accident with a shark in new Caledonia a couple of years ago. And because it was sharks, it was, it was a shark. It was, you can imagine it just was. And, and, and I was instructed very early on actually by one of my clients who deals a lot with the press. And he just said, say nothing.
And this will die. Just don't, don't, you know, because they, they just want to glamorize this. And then, you know, so it's not good for sharks. It's not good for your business. It's, you know, just, just don't say anything. And it was crazy. It all died in about a week. Yeah. I just, I just refused any interviews and it just was gone.
Yeah. It's it's, it's, it was incredible though. I mean, just, you know, going viral that quick. No one, if no one, if you haven't had a viral video and you don't know what's going to hit you when it does happen.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would think that'd be kind of fun. Was it kind of fun or was it like, well,
you know, I was going back to work. I'm driving to work and I got, you know, the second day and talking to some guy from ABC New York or something. And then my phone's ringing again. I says, hold on a second. I look down and it's New Zealand. And I'm like, well, I'm going to let that go to voicemail. But the next one was Australia. Then London. Then, you know, it was just like, oh my God. Your phone bill must have gone
through the roof that month.
Oh my God. It was nuts. It was crazy.
And I guess by now it's all mellowed out. Is there, but you're, you're still getting some calls from the UK, but otherwise you're just a normal guy again, Chris.
Yeah. Within the last two months. I think I've had, let's see, I had a camera crew from the UK out here. They're doing a story on it. You know, one of their shows on, on the experience. So they came out and did a bunch of footage of me here. And then I had some guy do a Skype with, from Germany, like three weeks ago.
What's the most interesting question you've gotten?
Most, most of the people would say, are you really going to do it again? Are you, do you really want to do this again? Yeah. And my wife even asked me that she goes, you know, you don't have to do this. And I says, I know I don't have to do that, but I want to do it.
Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. That's cool. I love it. Chris. Thanks, man. Uh, I, I appreciate it. And this is a lot more time than most of your other interviews. I'm sure. So I really do appreciate your time and, uh, reach out to me and any of the rest of us, we will all help you out. And I'm sure you've learned, but if you need anything in this community, reach out. And, uh, I'll do everything I can to make this, uh, this dream happen.
Sounds awesome. I appreciate it.
Awesome. Thanks, Chris. Thank you.
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