Well, hello there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. Before we get into this one, I just want to apologize for the long gap. I have, those of you who follow kind of what I'm doing, know that I did a big expedition across the Alaska Range, the Alaska Range Traverse. I think we're calling it Under the Midnight Sun with Dave Turner. It took 37 days to complete. I had to go on solo after Dave had to leave day 32, I believe, because he had some other commitments in Europe. And let's face it, it was just going really slowly. So he had to bail. He had a bunch of other stuff he had to attend to. I continued on alone, got some fantastic weather, and ended up finishing it pretty quickly with some good flights at the end. This podcast is not about Alaska.
I just wanted to let you all know that I'm back safely. Thank you for your patience in waiting for the next episode. I'm now back in Ketchum. After Alaska, I zipped over to Europe, did some quick training with Ben and Bruce, my ex-Alps team. As we're planning on doing that next year. And I'm now home for the rest of the summer. So we're going to be able to bang out some more of these podcasts.
Rafael Saladini. I met Rafael this year down in Mexico at the Menarca. The guy is just full of brilliant light and energy. He has had an amazing year. It's not often you get to talk to somebody who's just won a PWC task out in Portugal. As well as flown 500K this year. The boys down in Brazil, we talk about his chasing the world records. We talk about his world record back in 2007 that broke Will Gads. We talk about all kinds of things. His early career with a bunch of accidents. Leaving the sport for a long time. Coming back to it. Having great mentors. And just how he has excelled. You guys are going to dig this.
Rafael, I mean it's amazing how poetic Rafael is. In a second language. I've got to go visit him. I've got to get in there with this guy. Just super inspiring. Wonderful human being.
So I'll leave it at that. Without giving you too much. Enjoy this episode. And without further ado, Rafael Saladini.
Rafael, we have been trying to get together since the Menarca in Mexico. It is so awesome. I have been so excited personally to talk to you about all the awesomeness. Some things you've been doing lately. Thanks for coming on the Mayhem. I'm really excited to sit down and have this chat with you. Even though you're... Where are you in Brazil?
Hi, Gavin. It's a pleasure to be here with you. And with all this audience that loves paragliding also. I'm in Brazil right now. In Rio de Janeiro. In my hometown. So I just came by to visit my family and my friends a bit. Before jumping towards the northeast. The east of Brazil. And try to build up another expedition. Maybe another world record is going to be done this year. Let's see.
Cool. Well, actually, before we get into the world record and where you're going. And we're going to be talking a lot about that. That must be an exciting place to be right now. With the Olympics descending on you. What's Rio like right now?
Rio now, it's getting ready. There is a lot of pessimism. With the event. Because I don't know what happens in people's mind here. But I'm not this kind of person. I'm really optimistic. As people had bad thoughts about the World Cup. About many events we've hosted here. At the end, everything is sorted out. Everything works. And our government is struggling to organize the security part. And we're just... We're just getting ready, you know. And as all the Brazilians, we're just going to be ready at the last minute. But at the end of the event, I'm sure everybody is going to be happy.
And it's going to be a very nice atmosphere. And the Brazilian way of life is going to be in this Olympics for sure. Yeah, you guys...
I do know this about the Brazilians. You guys know how to throw a good party. It's going to be a fantastic event. And hopefully all these concerns that people have about security. They're just going to be... You know, it'll just be overshadowed by the glorious event that the Olympics is. I'm pretty excited about it. Pretty excited to watch it. Rafael, so the two main things I really want to talk about is the world record last year. An incredible team effort you guys put in with that. And then also your recent task win on the last day in Portugal. But I think, you know, a lot of our listeners probably don't know a ton about your history. And actually, I don't as well. I was just Googling you before the show. And there wasn't a whole lot of information.
Well, a lot of the information was in Brazilian, so I couldn't read it. So I would love to just... Can you give us a kind of a synopsis on how you got into flying and the catalyst that started you into flying and kind of how you've gotten to where you are today?
Yeah, for sure. When I was 14 years old, my father decided to make... A hang gliding course. And I went with him to a school here near Rio de Janeiro. But in the first day, he quit. He thought it was too dangerous for him. But at the end of the day, I had already touched a hang glide. I was really amazed with the sport, with the atmosphere, with the pictures I saw. This was back, I think, in 1996 or 1997. And then the sport... The sport was in my head. And my cousin and a friend of mine, they started three years, four years later, paragliding. And I decided to follow them.
I was a minor. I had just 16 years old. So I could not actually start the sport because here in Brazil, we have a law that you should just start when you're 18. Even though I found an instructor that he decided to teach me. And I just started like that. I had to actually go to the tech. I had to take off here in Rio de Janeiro, which is really controlled by, you know, the federation. I had to go in the trunk of the car.
That's from where my nickname comes from because all the Brazilians, they call me Sardinha, which is sardine, the fish, because I used to go up in the car, in the trunk of the car, like a sardine can, you know, so people would say, ah, you look like a sardine inside this trunk because I'm big, I'm tall. And people, you know, decided to... To call me like that. And it's a horrible nickname, but that's the way they call me. I love it. I love it.
I was really irresponsible. I was not... I was trying to follow my cousin, Rodrigo Monteiro, because he was already a PWC pilot, a guy that was going already to try to break records in northeast of Brazil. And I just grew up... I was grown up with him together. So as a cousin... My bigger cousin, I tried to follow him. And I suffered many accidents. I was like the type of the guy that would take off and people would put their hands in their head and say, oh, my God, it's him. You know, he just took off. Be aware of him, you know. After a couple of accidents, I finally could actually suffer a big, important accident that changed my life.
I broke my hip. I broke my left hip. I broke my right foot and my right arm.
I almost exploded like a tomato, you know, in a takeoff in the countryside of Brazil. So then I stopped. This was back in... This was October of 1999. And I stopped. I was really traumatized. And I came back just in 2003 because my cousin and my friend, they put pressure on me to start again. And I started. So... But I started. I started committing probably the same mistakes. I suffered some little accidents also again. And I don't know what happened to me. But I think it was like a divine illumination or I don't know what happened. I just... When I was like two years of flying, maybe 2005,
everything clicked, you know, in my head. I stopped to do... To commit stupid mistakes. I stopped to think that I could... I could manage every situation. So since then, I've never had any accidents flying. Just, I mean, reserve parachute, which is really, I mean, normal for a guy that is flying competitions in high level and speed in full speed and having cravats sometimes. So I had just one sexually reserve parachute in competitions. So that's pretty much my story. I started again in 2003. With my cousin as my mentor. And after him, I just switched my mentor to a really good instructors.
After Rodrigo, I jumped to Marcelo Prieto, which is a guy that actually... I mean, the guy just broke the world record again.
In that time, he had already broken 400Ks in Texas. Actually, in the same day, Will Gadd broke the world record. He was there also flying. So the guy had... He had a lot of experience. He taught me everything about big cross country flying. And basically, I jumped from nice mentor to nice mentors. You know, I just jumped from one to another. And that's why I could get a kind of shortcut to develop myself really fast. Because a guy that started in 2003 and break a world record in 2007, it's just like, I don't know, four or five years. And I... I could just manage to do that because I had nice people in my surroundings with good knowledge, with the will of sharing this knowledge, of actually adopting me as their student, as their, you know, the guy that is supposed to replace them, the guy that is supposed to maintain their knowledge alive.
And after that, Frankie Brown also.
And another Brazilian good pilot here also. And when I started to compete back in 2006, 2005, I was already surrounded by the best Brazilians in the sport. And I think this made a hell of a difference in my life because I saw many guys that started in the same time as me. And they could not develop themselves because they were not surrounded by the right people. And I think this is one... one of the most important things in this sport, especially because it's a life-risk sport. You cannot... you cannot commit big mistakes as I used to do. And seeing and watching and observing the best ones, you see how they behave, what is important, what is not important,
what you should do to keep yourself safe, to keep your head in the ground, to not being, you know, how can I say? Don't fall in this mistake, which is to... it's an illusion that you are like a superman, that you are better than you actually are. So basically, I just kept my feet in the ground following the right people here in Brazil. That's pretty much my story, my beginning, you know. And after 2007, I was with the Brazilian team trying to break records in the Northeast. And this made my whole story in the sport, you know. There's a lot of things
there. That was a really good history. If you don't mind, I'd love to go back.
You hit on quite a few things that I get a lot of questions through the podcast from pilots that want to know things. Because I have a similar history in terms of the mentor thing. I surrounded myself with guys who were just so much better and they were just so giving of their time. And kind of like you, I think I was very aggressive in the beginning. Maybe I'm still aggressive, but I'm very aggressive. And they would constantly try to kind of bring me back to have your feet on the ground and not have this superman syndrome. Like you said, I really like that. How did you surround yourself with those guys? And is that really a Brazilian thing?
Because I agree with you. I think the mentor side... I mean, certainly talent is a big part of it. And you have a lot of talent, clearly. But to go from probably those guys were seeing this kid that was having all these accidents and making really silly, stupid mistakes. And maybe we don't want to even teach him. He's a firecracker. How did you kind of break into that going? I'd love to hear more about that transition, both mentally, but also from the mentor side. How did you recover from those accidents mentally?
For me, it was really hard because when I started to fly, fly again in 2003, I was really traumatized. I had a lot of fear. I still do, actually, when I'm speeding close to the ground. I'm not the type of pilot, even though I'm competing in a high level, every time that I'm really close to the mountain or close to the floor, I remember my injuries, my situation over there, and I don't want to live that anymore. So that's really fresh in my mind still nowadays, 13 years after. My transition was not so easy because nobody wanted to have a bad student on their side, as you said. What I did, I just decided to train and train and train.
I was like, by that time, when I started again, I was like 20, 19 years old. Actually, 21. And for me, I had plenty of time to train. So I started to go to every single competition that I could. I went to Mexico a couple of times with Frankie, and I definitely followed the Brazilian League also a lot. And with my serial glider in that time, I used to fly a Sigma-6. And with the Sigma-6, I started to actually take nice decisions regarding navigation during the tasks. And then I would actually, be like a rising star in the serial class.
And that, I think that's pretty much what gave me these credentials to actually knock on the door of the good guys and say, hey, man, you see, I'm trying to learn. Could you please help me out? And I think, of course, this is a Brazilian way also to do when you're among friends here, we really want to share things. And Brazil, Brazil is a country that is really amazing for cross country flying. Like US, for example, we do have big communities hidden in the middle of Brazil that nobody knows, and they don't compete. They just want to fly and have fun. They have this really familiar environment. They bring kids and family to the takeoff, and they really live the flying lifestyle.
And they don't care about competitions, about titles, about anything. They just want to, you know, live the lifestyle, fly, and have fun. And there is this little city in Brazil called Araxá, which is in the same province of Governador Valadares, which is Minas Gerais. Araxá is a city that you can fly more than 100Ks in 360 degrees. They have flights of 200Ks, a flight of 300Ks. So it's really nice to fly during the spring. And we have a very nice community over there. And that's pretty... That's pretty much the place that gave me the credentials to become a good cross country pilot because I spent all my springs over there.
I got to know the best pilots of the city. I'm actually the godfather of a son of one of them. And I would live there for three months every season. And that's where I could meet and straight and get my relationship with Marcelo Prieto much closer. And Marcelo Prieto saw a potential on me. And he adopted me and brought me for the first time in 2006 to the northeast of Brazil as a student, as a guy that has a promise, has a potential to actually join the team he was wanting to form, you know, to try the world record again.
And that's pretty much from where I got this transition, you know, struggling, training, competing, learning, and actually not convincing, but showing my results to good guys that actually decided to adopt and share their knowledge with me. You know, that's pretty much what happened. Take me through
some of that training. When you look back and you were kind of adopted by Marcelo and he was assembling this team and, you know, started to really work on, on training, breaking the world record. What were some of the things when you look back where there are kind of some aha moments, where there's some things that in your own toolkit that really needed repairs, you know, some things that you were obviously doing wrong or was it just simply a matter of hours and flying more?
The thing of flying in northeast of Brazil and these huge distances here in Brazil, because we don't have the wind. In South Africa, we don't have the window of Texas. We don't have, Brazil is pretty much a place that you have 12 hours to fly. And by that time, we were able to fly nine, eight hours and 30 minutes. So that's the jump of the cat. I'm not sure if you have this expression in English, but the jump, the pretty much the thing that actually triggered the whole thing is the teamwork. And, you know, I think that's, you know, when I was training cross country flight with Marcelo Prieto in Araxá, he taught me the basic things of cross country,
lines of disturbances, how to read clouds, how to use cloud streets, how to position yourself during the flight, how to actually read the forecast, to actually know if it's a potential day or not. And that's pretty much the basic training he taught me. I cannot tell you what I was doing wrong because I was not doing it. I started to do with them. So I just learned the right way to do it, you know, because I was not doing it before. I was a student. I was a guy that has flown maybe 70K, 90K. And the first time I broke 100K barrier, I was with them already, you know.
So I was actually sucking this knowledge from them, you know, getting this knowledge from the best source we have here in Brazil. And this training of 2006 in northeast of Brazil, I think this, for me, was the trigger that triggered the whole thing in my life because actually he saw a potential on me to join this teamwork, you know, this thing to, for example, if we have like two, three pilots, you don't need to talk in the radio. You don't need to communicate yourself with nobody. It's... We train together. It becomes like a flying organism, you know. We don't talk to... We don't say a word in the radio. Okay, let's go. Okay, to the right. Okay, to the left. No, no. We don't say nothing.
We just fly, you know, together. And it's like a flying organism. It's automatic. And this is a matter of training and training and training and training together, not alone. It's completely different than flying a gaggle in PWC, for example, or in a competition because when you're in a competition, you're not flying. When you're flying in a gaggle, you're competing against everybody. You want to make sure you are in the best position. You want to make sure you're higher. You want to make sure you're faster. But to fly in a group, in a team, actually, it's not like flying in a gaggle. In a team, you have to fly in the same pace of your fellows. If you have a better position, you have to use your position to help them going first, showing the lines first.
So you have to change. You have to change the chip. You cannot fly in our team in the same way we fly competitions, you know. And that's pretty much what I've learned back in 2006. That's what he teach me. He taught me because I was committing some mistakes, like using him. And he would say, hey, man, you're using me too much. You're not supposed to use me. You're supposed to help me. So if you're higher, go first. Open wider.
Fly 50K. At most, sideways, you know. So use this advantage, these little advantages you have, to help the team to fly faster. Because at the end of the day, that's going to make a hell of a difference. And are
you guys spending quite a bit of time? So, you know, after a day that maybe doesn't work or there was a mistake or somebody bombs out, are you guys spending quite a bit of time, you know, discussing it and figuring out where you went wrong? And or... Yeah. And in the air, you know, I mean, to the wider world, that three people went the same distance in the world record is just so cool. I mean, the style of that is... Because, you know, we're programmed as humans to be like in the PWC, at some point you break away and you do it on your own. I mean, for you guys to have that kind of diligence, is this something you really discuss?
Or is it really just part of... Not the programming, but just, I guess, just the love for one another?
Marcelo Prieto and Frankie Brown, they've been competing against themselves for, I don't know, since 1995 or 1996, something like that. And they just got fed up about racing against each other, you know. The concept of flying together, it was created, I mean, in our point of view here in Brazil for the Brazilians, by Marcelo Prieto and André Fleury. André Fleury is a very famous tandem world record breaker. The guy has, I don't know, eight world record of open distance in a tandem. And he's a guy that tried with Marcelo Prieto for many years to actually try to take off as early as 6.30, you know, to break this barrier of taking off at night, at 8.30, and widening or making our window more longer.
So now, instead of taking off at 8.30, 9, and flying until 5.30, we're actually taking off 6.30 and flying until 5.30, which makes a hell of a difference in the whole concept of flying here. So they created this style of flying together as a team, helping one another. However, André Fleury, he was more into tandem records. And Marcelo got a bit alone. And Frankie started to fly with Sol paragliders back in 2006 and 2007. So that's when they could join, you know, they could actually join forces.
Because before that, they were friends, but they could not join in the same team. Because, Marcelo would fly for Sol, and Frankie would fly for Gene. So in that season, they joined forces, and I was already with Marcelo since the season before. Since 2006, I was with Marcelo training as a team. And when we reached the season of 2007, I went alone first a couple of weeks before, and I broke the South American record alone. And then Marcelo joined me over there in 2007, like two weeks later. And he broke my South American record. And then Frankie joined the team and we started to fly together
and to actually build this concept among ourselves. Because it's not easy. You read the concept. Oh, okay. Let's fly together. Let's help one another. Let's do this, do that. But that's really easy to read. And it's really hard to do it. Because, in many moments, I catch myself competing with my fellows. Like you said, it's automatic. It's our instinct. And that's not the right way to do it. You know? And Frankie, it's really, it's by far the most experienced Brazilian pilot, and he can change the chip really easily to helping or to competing against. And he's really experienced. And me and Marcelo, we struggled more to actually change the chip.
But at the end, we managed to do it because we've been flying so many times together and so many times alone also. And to fly alone in that immensity flying just by yourself with no friends around. It's not the same atmosphere. When you reach an objective, you reach a goal and you have your friend beside you to share this experience. It's completely different. It's another atmosphere. It's another experience. You know, it's much more powerful because your memories are your memories. When you can share this memory with someone, then it becomes stronger.
You know, it becomes a story with two points of view, more enriched by details. And that's why we decided to actually make a movie also about that, that we've done in total. It was in 2007 also called Circus. And that's pretty much what's happened. You know, that's pretty much why I say that to share this experience was the best decision we've made.
What I'd love to hear. I love that Rafael and I couldn't agree more. It's just so much more special when you have the when it's not just your own camera in your mind, but everybody else's is that when you land together, it's really what is so precious. I think about the sport. Take me back. I think the wider world before we started the show, you and I were talking about the, you know, the you guys have really looked around the world in terms of finding places to set the record in Texas and Australia and South Africa and Brazil. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on on that. But also, I think the wider world who haven't done these big downwind flatland flying searching for these records, I think they under estimate.
Yeah. Underestimate really how scary it could be. It's not just flying over a desert. Tell me about, you know, some of the kind of mental things you guys have to deal with, because as I understand it, I haven't flown Brazil, but as I understand it, you really have to do a lot of low flying over some pretty sketchy terrain. I remember when Nick Greece came back from Texas because I always thought, you know, Texas sides, you know, like in my own mind that these these flat land world records are really cool. But I didn't I didn't really appreciate, I think how sketchy they can be. I mean, flying in wind is always a little bit sketchy, but certainly in the mountains, it's really sketchy where I fly. But, you know, when Nick got back from their world record attempts a couple of years ago with the ozone team, you know, he was talking about, you know, among other things, a lot of people with guns, but, you know, fences and cactus and,
you know, places that you would really not want to put down, a glider. And I think that that's similar from what I understand. I mean, I know that you guys are dealing with really windy launches, but take me through some of that side of it. I mean, is it is it something you guys head into with a little bit of trepidation, or is it just you've done it enough that it's it's just no big deal. It's about finding the right day.
The first thing that I want to say is that we were really lucky to be Brazilians because I've never flown in Australia. I've never flown. In South Africa and in Texas, Marcelo and Frankie, they've done they've flown in Texas already. And actually, they say that Texas is pretty much probably the best place that the world record if we get a magic day in Texas, then it's going to be unbeatable. However, when you compare Brazil, the Northeast of Brazil, even though this is actually a kind of how can I say a tricky thing? Uh, um, uh, how can I say that? It's uh,
it's a thing. It's really interesting because Brazil is not a safe country regarding security. If you compare, if you compare it with South Africa, Australia and the States, probably Brazil is the most dangerous countries between this for right regarding violence. But in this case of flying, I should say that probably is one of the safest ones because Brazil, the Northeast of Brazil, uh, you have paved roads all over. Uh, you have houses all over. You have really, really humble people living in these, those houses. They, they're willing to give you everything they have. They offer you food. They offer you everything they have, uh, to make your, your life more comfortable. Uh, they, they are really sympathetic with the sport because we're like, you know, angels that fall in the, in their reality and they, they, they, they got really amazed of what we do and they ask questions.
They, they, they really changed the, how do you say imaginary world or their head? You know, we really insert some new, new realities and concepts and dreams in their, in their heads. You know, when we, we, we compare Brazil with Texas, for example, uh, what, what, what Marcello and Frankie told me is that even though Texas is the best place, that's probably, probably is going to be the, the final world record is going to be there. You know, like probably we can fly right now, 600 Ks in Texas. If we get to the magic day, uh, even though it's the best place, you do have to deal with, uh, more, uh, like close farms and all fences that you cannot go with the car to retrieve the guy, a huge, uh,
huge areas that you cannot, you cannot land over there, uh, farms that are locked and, uh, and the border with Mexico deal with the police. Uh, I just saw that Johnny drew Duran had this problem this time, uh, attempting a world record over there. He was, you know, conducted by policemen out of the place he landed. Uh, and then if you compare this with South Africa also for sure, because South Africa, it's more wild, the flying over there, it's, it's higher. You take off from 1500, uh, you have more wind. Uh, it's, it, you have more wind when you're landing. Uh, and in Australia, probably say it's safe like Brazil, but it's not so inhabited, you know, uh, you don't have that many houses.
Northeast of Brazil, you have a house every 20, 30 K. So, uh, you never died there because of hunger, because of lack of thirst, uh, because of being lost and not finding a way out. You know, this, this is impossible to happen in our feast, uh, Brazil, you know, because you have paved national roads everywhere. You have houses, you have food, you have water in their houses. So, uh, I should, I should say that you should try to fly, uh, in, in Kishida once or at the SEMA to see how it's much easier than these myths that people talk about. And people like to S to scare the others away. You know, I should say, I should tell you that it's, it's much, it's, you're going to fly.
You should die and say, uh, is this what people were trying to say that it's scary. I mean, you've been in the Alaskan Traverse right now. It just came back. I mean, when you compare the Alaskan Traverse, I mean, uh, Northeastern Brazil is a kind of, it's almost like not exactly the same.
Well,
Rob Raphael, I, I do, uh, at some point here, I'll, I'd love to, to transition to the PWC and your, your task win in Portugal. But before we, before we do, can you take me back to that December day last year? Because you have been, uh, very Brazilian and you've, you've said, uh, you know, you were just so happy for your friends, but on the, on the five 13 day, uh, and we'll talk about your other day too, but the five 13 day you bombed out really early. Uh, take me, take me through that day.
Yeah. Uh, we were in an expedition, uh, for, uh, one month. Okay. We started to fly on October 5th and, uh, and the world record was broken in October 9th. Uh, every day until October 9th in October 5th, uh, Frankie bumped out October 7th, Marcelo bumped out October 8th, uh, Donizete bumped out and in October 9th, it was my turn to bump out. Oh man. Oh man.
What a day to bomb out. But I tell you that for me was, was the best thing that could happen to me because, uh, I mean, to break a world record, it's, I think it's a resume of your life. You know, uh, life, life is not easy. You know, uh, I stopped paragliding, uh, from 2008 until 2014 and I just came back. You know, these guys, they've been struggling going to North, so Brazil every year for really focused on the world record. They could not manage to, to get a nice year. It would be really easy and, and, and I would be really spoiled if, if I was in the team breaking the record again.
And, uh, uh, the bottom line is that, uh, I, I did not struggle. I was, I was not struggling enough to be in the team this year. And if you consider this, this organism, this flying organism that I was talking about of this, this, uh, connection that we have between ourselves this year, I was not connected to them because in 2007, I tell you, I was really connected to Marcelo Prieto and Frankie Brown. We were like a flying organism, flying perfectly fast, one helping another, no talking in the radio, really, really, really, uh, uh, how can I say, uh, uh, together, together, flying together as one organism this year, 2015 last year,
I wasn't a part of the team. I was invited by them because I'm a former world record with them. I'm a, I'm a member of the team, but in this case, you cannot enforce someone. You cannot, uh, put someone inside the team and say, come on now, this guy's a part of the team. Okay. He can be the part of the team, the theory. But when you go to the practice, the practical side, then, uh, if you're not working with them, uh, if you're using the team, if you're not helping the team, you're going to be left behind, not because they want, but that's because that's because that's the way the organism behaves, you know, uh, in a certain moment, I was just chasing them.
In, in, in the October 9th, I bumped out really early in the morning. So I, I did not have plenty of time to fly with them and checked. I realized that I was not prepared, but when we tried again in November 3rd, I think that I could fly 500 and Marcelo and Donizete repeated 513. Uh, I realized that, uh, I was not, uh, you know, uh, I was not a part of the team that year. I was just using them. I'm more, I was pretty much more like a parasite than a part of the team because I was every time flying behind, trying to catch them, you know, and that's why when we reached 300 case, I decided I'm, I'm over with that.
I'm not following them to the 500. I'm just going to make the rest of my flight alone. So then I'm going to fly. I'm going to land, uh, much happier than just follow my, my fellows the rest of the day, you know? So for me, it was really hard to realize that, but I think that's the part of life. Uh, I think we learned, we learned much more from our losses, from our disappointments, from our frustrations than just having good results, titles, and everything comes easier, you know, easy and soft to our lives. And I think for me it was the best thing because I realized that, okay, I am a good pilot, but, uh, a world record is a world record and you've got to struggle.
You need to deserve it. And in 2015 I did not deserve it. This year, 2016, if you break it again, then I can come back here and tell you, Hey Gavin, this year, I really deserve it because I trained with my fellows. I was flying already for so many competitions, preparing myself for that. But in 2015, definitely I was out of the team.
Tell me about this period then between 2008 and 2014. I didn't know about that. What was, uh, what was going on there?
Uh, I was, it was the call of duty, you know, it was two things first because I was really bored. Uh, I broke a world record. I was flying really nicely, but at the end I was flying so many hours every year that I was flying with bad humor. I would catch a terrible and start complaining that a thermal was not perfect. Uh, it was not five meters per second. It was just two meters per second and all my happiness was going towards paragliding. Uh, if I, if I would go, uh, well in a competition, I was really happy if I, if I would go, uh, bad in a competition, I would be depressed. So I was pretty much like a bipolar person following my results in the sport.
And besides, besides that I have my family, my family has businesses and, uh, they were really needing me to, to come back from this parallel universe that I put myself on. So I decided to, to help them. And, uh, I just came back to my family, my family business also to help them. And, uh, these two, uh, these were, this probably are the two main purposes. I just quit the sport for a while. And now I came back with another head, more mature, uh, putting paragliding exactly in the position that it should be. Uh, it's not my entire life anymore. It's just a part of it. So I, I, I'm pretty much thinking like a financial market, uh, guy, you know, I'm just diversifying my happiness right now.
You know, I have a family, I'm trying to have a kid. Now I have my, my work and I have paragliding also. How
do you then maintain the passion for something like a world record given all that? Um, I think that having the passion of free flight, uh, you know, when we first learn is just automatic, you know, like every sledder, every time we go off the hill, the, just the absurdity of it all is, is so overwhelming that it's just, you can't get enough. Um, you know, after a lot of hours and a lot of comps and you know, it's, it can be pretty hard for people to maintain that kind of passion, especially when you're chasing like a world record, just the hours and the retrieves and the dedication. Like I know when Will Gadd went through all that back in the early two thousands chasing his world records, it's just a massive amount of time and energy that you have to commit to that. So how do you, how do you maintain that passion and are you as passionate now as you were back in the day?
In 2007, uh, w w we could not, I could not even think about that because, uh, first we were just thinking about breaking the South American record. And after I broke it, uh, because a Portuguese guy held the South American record, it was three 80 and in the first flight that did three 98. So then Marcelo did 414 and when Marcelo did 414 in Brazil, then we thought, Ooh, wow, And then we went from 414 to 423. We get world record. It's just a nine case, you know, so maybe it's possible. And that's when we started to dream about it. And this dream just lasts probably for three weeks because then we managed to break it.
So, uh, it, uh, we, we had, we had a lot of, uh, how can I say, uh, uh, people were, people were really skeptical. We've, the potential of Brazil is, to to be the place to break to break world record and we've changed that in 2007 uh nowadays for me uh it's a hell of an experience still because it's not a matter just just of reaching the mark you know it's the whole journey uh that's what i just told you uh when i was talking about deserving or not the world record last year the whole journey is the most important thing you know to be with your friends struggling to be in that environment in brazilian dry lands with that people that humble people learning so many teachings from them how to be happy with simple things how to to live with such such a few resources uh the whole atmosphere of this journey of trying the world record that enchants me you know that's that's where i really feel alive you know that's where i really feel interesting about paragliding because competitions it's really nice but i i i really should tell you that i just go to competitions to evolve myself as a pilot to learn how to fly faster to learn how to handle my glider better but at the end what drives me in the sport it's pretty much this uh world record breaking attempts
because that's where i feel alive you know that's that's that's where that's what i i like it from the sport you know like you did the alaskan traverse for me it's much more interesting than going to a PWC or to brazilian nationals or to uh for the rat race or anywhere else you know this adventurous things this breaking barriers breaking the limits uh expanding our sports limits that's what drives me you know that's what makes me feel alive and that's what drives me you know that's what makes me feel alive and that's what makes me happy about our sport so
how do we transition from that kind of intensity and chasing world records um to just enjoying free flight you know as you get older uh if you keep pressing like that you know the inevitable is uh that you're gonna probably get hurt or uh you know you just don't have the reaction time and the skills and the eyesight so if you thought about that i know you're you're a lot of people that are in the sport that are in the sport that are younger than i am but uh how do you transition from kind of where you are how do you see um your career moving forward and then also maybe separate question i'd love to ask you about your best flight you know is it the 500 you got uh after the world record went down um or is it another one
yeah uh i i have just 33 years old right now uh i'm i'm the youngest ones i mean i mean the youngest one from my career i'm the youngest one from my career i'm the youngest one from my career my team uh i see frankie with 46 he he broke the record last year with 46 or 48 i'm not sure uh marcelo he's got 38 and the other guys they have more than 40 so uh i see a big horizon in front of me regarding paragliding but uh i'm not the type of person that is going to be doing paragliding for the rest of my life in this level you know uh i really foresee in the future doing tandems with my wife with my kids having fun with it because i love to fly i love to to be in the flying environment i love the friends i've made uh i love the knowledge i i've learned from the sport i i started to to observe the world in a different way and i think it's pretty much what what what i find so interesting about paragliding it's not like uh swimming
or cycling you know it's which are amazing sports but uh they don't teach you how to observe the world in a different way you know they don't teach you uh chemistry physics biology uh you know it's it's an amazing sport so i've foreseen a very nice future for sure not competing uh i'm jumping out to sailplanes also i'm starting to fly sailplanes so i'm not sure if i'm gonna completely to sailplanes as i did with paragliding but i'm sure i'm gonna be flying both of them you know
and so tell me about your best flight when you look back at your career uh was it the longest or was it was it something else my
best flight for sure it's my my my world record because uh uh i i really dreamed about it i it was a big pursuit i mean it was an objective we had it was a uh a barrier that my country had to to break also because brazil was known as a consistent flying country a country that you could take off from a foot launch uh and fly really far away but it was it was not a country that would held a world record and for me breaking this barrier with my friends uh landing exactly in the same soccer field like we've done and sharing that energy that vibe that you know it was it was really powerful for me so uh in my 500 flight i went further uh probably i don't know i must be like the fifth or the sixth i don't know the person to reach 500 k's but at the end i was alone in the middle of nowhere waiting for my retrieve just with my camera i didn't have no one to share this experience and that's pretty much
what i have now to fly with my friends if you if you tell me uh rafael uh do you want to break the record again alone i should tell you uh if i fly at least 80 percent of the flight with my friends that's fine but if i have to do all the all the way alone probably i would say that i'm going to get bored before and then for and then before you know
rafael let's talk about uh pwcs a little bit uh i think i have a similar approach to you when it comes to pwcs i use them as tools to become a better pilot don't get too wrapped up in the results um i think that can be kind of dangerous but it sure is awfully fun to do well and you just did incredibly well at the PWC in portugal you won the last task i'd love to just hear about that take me through uh what that was like i bet that was pretty incredible yeah
for me uh when i i broke the record back in 2007 i became a very good cross country pilot but i but but i was never a good competition pilot i was never consistent i would go well in one day bumped out another so this came back that i did since 2014 i came back more mature observing this consistency being aware that i should be more consistent and for me uh winning two PWC tasks one in in brazil and the second one now in portugal for me was really important for my self-esteem for my my confidence also to to know that i'm really able to fly well competitions also and and i was really consistent now in portugal uh in the first task i bumped out but then the second task i was second the third task i was second also and then the last and fourth task i was first so if the second task had uh valued a thousand points which which which it was not the case it just it was just 300 points valid uh probably i would be in the podium but for me inside i know that i've flown really consistent and for me it was really amazed how i changed as a pilot to a more mature more more conscious pilot that than i used to be so uh for me with PWC uh i don't care that much for the result but for me uh to have a nice result it's it's really important you know to to pursue more
in my life in the sport you know
rafael what i'd love to hear about is um you know maturity and how you've learned to you know i think you know many pilots can maybe go out and uh you know crush one day just kind of throw risk out the window press a lot of bar lead out um but it's pretty hard to be consistent uh you know day after day you know a couple of top threes uh and and a win and a task at a PWC is really hard to do uh very impressive um can you kind of just take me through uh i imagine there's a lot of maturity and a lot of hours that's involved in that but can you just take me through kind of your headspace going into a PWC these days and and um yeah tell me how you're pulling that off what
i realized is that observing my my my friends you know people that i admire uh is that you don't need to to to prove nothing to no one you know uh you don't need to to go in front all the time you need to breathe sometimes uh back in 2007 i was really immature i thought that i had to prove that i was able to lead and i i was just risky and risky and risky and in a certain point something goes wrong and then i lose the whole task uh even though in portugal i've flown really aggressive uh in many times in the tabby because portugal is is it's not mountains because when i'm in like in the alps or in the in the rocky mountains in the states when i i'm really deep in my into mountains i'm not a good pilot i i'm really scared uh i prefer to fly flatlands that's my style that's from where i come from that's where my my skills are made for uh so portugal it's it has some similarities with brazil so i was feeling really comfortable over there i was not feeling threatened by the by the environment i was feeling really comfortable with the turbulence and all that and for me uh uh even though i was aggressive flying really consistent and with the first gaggle and sometimes risking alone in front in many many moments i i i stopped after leading a while i stopped i let people go in front of me i say come on now i have enough leading points let's just thermal let's just uh get high follow now uh another person let's use now the gaggle let's let's brief you know otherwise you get tired you lose your concentration and it's it's pretty much it's for me it's pretty arrogant also to think that you're going to be able to to lead a whole task of 100ks in front of you know the best pilots in the world i think you need to share this responsibility because no there is no perfect pilot and i think uh it's just a matter of understanding that and and and actually cody mithang was a guy that uh inspired me in the last few years because i met him in a in in uh in the in in the Superfinal in mexico and i saw how he was flying he went to castello i saw how concentrated and consistent he was so for me some guys like frankie brown like andreas malecki you know like uh torsten siegel uh like uh jean-marc
brown like uh uh charles cazor these guys they really inspire me you know because i saw the consistency on them and i saw them i observed them and i see that they're not uh kids they fly not to prove anyone to nobody they fly to win and that's what i'm trying to do now even though i don't care that much but i'm trying to do it because just trying i think i'm going to become a better pilot
sounds to me like there's actually a lot of crossover between the kind of team flying you guys are doing in brazil you know when you're in the air for 10 11 12 hours where you're really letting whoever has the most energy push a little bit more but you're kind of allowing the gaggle to do the work um which is a real key component of doing well in pwc's it sounds like there's you know there's there's there's quite a bit of crossover there the strategies actually sound obviously pwc's are much shorter than pwc's and pwc's are much shorter than pwc's tasks and a lot more bar you're racing really fast but um do you see a lot of crossover between these kind of two uh in some ways very different elements but also the approach sounds pretty similar yeah
yeah uh that's that's that's actually the thing uh i have to learn right now to to do it better to use the gaggle and to risk less myself that's what i'm trying to learn now uh when we fly together uh as a team trying to break the record uh it's like uh a band of birds you know uh we we share the we share the leadership uh every thermal uh one time a person that it's really fit and not tired goes in front the others spread to the sides but a bit a bit a bit in the back and then you just uh make a uh how can i transition of leadership and we just exchange leadership the whole day so nobody gets too much tired you know and that's that's pretty much what the best uh competition pilots they do however with this new formula now if you don't actually lead for for a couple of uh especially in the first third of the task uh then if you arrive with the gaggle and go you're gonna lose precious leading points so this formula this new formula now is actually pushing people to lead a bit uh to actually make the the the whole gaggle more aggressive and i think this is pretty much this is pretty good because people are not just holding and waiting to see what the others are doing they they're actually trying to lead trying to be aggressive and trying to win the task with this strategy of leading a bit and then fly with the gaggle not just fly with the gaggle and i think this is really important and it's an evolution in our sport you know
i have to say uh for someone who speaks english as their second language you are quite the poet how you talk about paragliding is really mesmerizing i hate to cut us off as i've barely even touched on a lot of the questions i had for you um but i want to be respectful of your time we're nearing an hour here and uh i just i i've been doing this proused questionnaire for a lot of the people coming on the show and i haven't the last few times but i i went to a talk the other night by the author of the satanic verses and he talks about the prowse questionnaire so i'd love to fire you off uh some questions from that if that's okay and maybe we can get you on for if people really enjoy the show which i know they will we'll try to do uh a second one of these at some point so i'll just uh take you through this real quick uh what is your favorite word word love nice and uh what is your least favorite word hate and what turns you on and what turns you off what turns
me on is uh discoveries uh limits uh what turns me off is big cities yes
you and i have that in common uh what sound do you love and what sound do you hate i
i love the noise of nothing i love the silence you know i love to be meditating when i'm flying you know that's that's why i love huge cross country flights because i'm silent i'm silent the whole flight uh and the noise i hate the most are traffic jam you know horns cars and mess this mess that we've been driven to yes
uh humanity there was uh very little of that on the expedition in alaska i have to say that was one of the most precious parts about that whole journey uh for sure what profession other than your own uh would you most like to do and actually i should ask you what your profession is are you a professional paraglider or or uh something
else no uh i graduated in business administration uh i'm pretty much for the financial part so right now i'm just in the financial market uh uh administrating my my my family's uh stake and uh i'm i'm into the real estate market also but as an investor i'm not an engineer but i build houses and little uh little buildings also that's what i do now ah
okay so uh going back to the question then from the questionnaire uh what what uh profession other than real estate or finance would you most like to do
oof i would like to be a product designer or or uh a film director because uh i did one movie uh that that's called cyclos uh the quality of the images are not so nice because it was actually in the transition of technology for gopro and all that but it was in the uh uh we won a prize in uh in santi lerdo to vet uh in 2010 i think or 2011 i'm not i'm not sure which year it was but uh now i'm doing another movie the cyclos 2 about the world record of my guys of my friends you know so uh i i really have this little feet this little foot on the on film uh making but
nothing too serious just you know uh my own Moyes really it's not it's not amateur but people like it but it's not professional you know it's not like the red bull ones you've done you know right
right yeah of course uh you know i've certainly been at both end of the that spectrum and the production editing end of things and it is a lot of work it's really creative and fun but i'm quite enjoying just being the guy that they tell you you go fly and uh let them do all the work yeah absolutely so what profession would you not like to do i
would not i would not like to be a president of a country you know because i don't like i don't like to have enemies so i don't like the powerful positions yeah
and brazil has been quite tumultuous lately politically as of course we have as well but yeah geez what a what a miserable job
exactly so i would hate to be a politician you know yeah
god no kidding um so last one if god does exist uh what would you want him to say when you arrive at the pearly gates wow
i would like to hear that uh that if it's true that i've done a good work to make my world better before departing from the kingdom of god i would hate to be a politician you know i would hate to be a politician from it you know because that's what i i try to help people and try to make the world better than than with my attitude with my
to to deliver a world better than i i was brought into that's what i i want to hear that's what i want to hear you know because that's what's going to make my my existence more fulfilled ah
very well said my friend very well said rafael thank you so much that was a real treat uh you and i have got to spend some more time together i've never flown in brazil so that's uh that's got to be the next move i got to get in the sky with you uh thank you for answering these questions so honestly and poetically you're a you're a great human being i was i feel really uh fortunate to have spent this this time with you i've done a lot of sailing on the coast of brazil but i've never been up there in brazil i've never been up there in brazil i've never been up there in the air so uh gotta get down your way but thank you i really appreciate it thanks for your time and uh fly far be safe and uh go big buddy
thank you thank you for the invitation and i would like to invite you one day to come here to fly with us and to get to know this and lose this brazil this this myth that it's really sketchy and and i mean to fly here big distances is going to be amazing you're going to enjoy and you're going to find really easy and really uh really friendly you know so uh feel free to come around and fly with us and i hope i meet you soon uh thanks for the invitation man it's it's beautiful this work you do sharing the knowledge of everybody every good all the good pilots in the world with everybody you know thanks for doing that you're making the world better
well thanks rafael appreciate it and uh yeah buddy we'll see you on the flip side cheers okay bye bye oh
man i hope you enjoyed that what a treat that was to sit down with raf for an hour i've been trying to tie up with him for many months since i met him at the monarca uh this january knew he'd be great on the show man so many strategies and tricks and uh chasing world records and flying on the PWC there's a lot there if you're just discovering the podcast really invite you to go back and check out some of the previous episodes some real really great stuff uh some fantastic stuff on risk from jeff shapiro great stuff on gliding from matt bichner if you want to just laugh hysterically check out Nick Greece or nate scales uh interviewed a bunch of the X-Alps guys acro guys there's some real real nuggets there just thrilled that i keep getting so much feedback that people are really enjoying this uh really enjoying it on my end as well thank you so much for your donations as always all we ask for is a buck a show uh it goes a long ways to making this more and more professional upgrading the gear and i will keep doing it like i said i'm just thrilled to be doing it it's i think it's a great way to get out knowledge uh we've got isabella messenger coming up Kari Castle so we've got some great shows coming up for you soon uh again at the top of the show apologize for the delay uh in the last couple months not getting one of these out i was tied up crossing the alaska range with uh dave turner the footage from that what little i've seen is absolutely mind-blowing pretty hard you can't even really compare this one whatsoever to the rockies river same team with real water productions uh as a red bull production just man we we suffered and we flew and saw some just truly amazing things and i'm really excited to uh get this movie out those guys are banging away up in squamish on the edit hoping to get the world premiere ready for banff this november if you haven't been to banff for the film festival i highly recommend you do this is a much better thing than the world tour because all the all the world tour films get all cut down if you want to see them in their all their glory you can see them in the world tour uh go to the ban film festival first week in november it's a really they just put on an amazing festival love to see you up there yeah that's about all i got for you thanks for listening appreciate it fly far be safe have fun cheers