Paragliding is kind of like that, like, that super hot girlfriend, you know what I mean? You're so psyched about her, you know, and she's so, you know, she's so hot and amazing, and you're just like, oh, I just want to spend so much time with her, and you know what I mean? And, like, climbing's become more like, you know, like, where that, eventually that hot girlfriend, if she's actually an awesome person, eventually you, like, fall in love with her, and you get married, and you have this, like, long-term relationship, and it's, you know, obviously it's not going to be like, oh my god, we just have to bang 24-7, you know what I mean? I mean, it's going to become like, it's going to become like, oh, a couple times a week is enough, and like, you know, but the love is deeper.
Some funny words from Cedar Wright, he was on last week's podcast, if you missed that one, go ahead and grab it, it's really excellent. Welcome to the Cloud Base Mayhem, another episode of the Mayhem,
where I deconstruct excellence in human flight, try to get the best pilots in the world on here, whether they be hang gliders, paragliders, what have you, and find out what makes them great. This show is... This
is fantastic,
it's with my great mentor and friend, Nate Scales, we sat down at the house here, and did it once, and realized my recorder was all screwed up, and it was a real honor to do it again, because he has just got the most amazing stories. We get into all kinds of fantastic stuff here, his one really sketchy reserve toss in the valley, his long history of comps, and flying with guys like Robbie Whittall, and Chris Santacroce, and Othar Lawrence. And a lot of legends over the years, we talk about his 2007 ex-Alps campaign, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I think you're going to really enjoy this talk, and without further ado, Nate Scales.
Hi Gaff, how's it going? Great man, how are you? Good. Good to have you on the show, I've been really excited about doing this for a long time, and let's just jump right into it. You have a pretty interesting and long history in paragliding, can we start at the beginning? Yeah, I started... In the spring of 1991, I was working in a ski shop in Sun Valley, Idaho.
A guy came into the shop and asked one of the guys I was working with if he wanted to try paragliding, and the guy said, no, no, not at all. And I was listening to the conversation, and I said, I'd really like to learn paragliding. Your hand up. And he said, okay, and he took me down to the park in town. And he showed me what a paraglider was, at that point it was a rock climbing harness and an 11-cell glider, and we practiced an inflation, and the next day we walked up Timber Gulch, about 400 feet, and he launched me off the hill three times, and the day after that we went up Greenhorn Gulch, which was about 1,200 feet, and I flew down and he said, now you know everything about paragliding.
I know, you should go to Salt Lake City where they know a little bit more. You tapped his potential. Yeah, I tapped his knowledge, but from the first moment, I was so excited. That first day I went into, after flying, my roommate worked at Atkinson's, and we went into, I went into Atkinson's, and he was a checker, and across the store I just screamed,
I flew, and flew!
So I was pretty... Pretty immediately hooked at the very beginning. Right, and then you, you were saying you moved to Salt Lake like the next day? Yeah, so the next day I went to Salt Lake to see if I could get more of this paragliding. I bought the glider off of my instructor. What was the name of the glider? Condor SP-11. An 11-cell glider, that's awesome. Because it had 11 cells. The last good cross country flight I had in the way. Wood River Valley this summer, hitchhiking home, I started talking to the driver, and it was his glider that I had bought, Vance Hanawald. Unbelievable, 25 years later. 25 years later, I meet the dude. Wow, that's amazing.
So I went to Salt Lake, there were people flying at the point, it was nothing like it is now, but, you know, every day somebody would come out to fly, and I thought, this is, this is awesome. It was like Santa Croce around then? Totally. Really? Yeah. He was my first friend. Right. He was charging as hard or harder then than he is now. He was the man, you know, was and still is the man. It was pretty fun. Yeah. Nobody believed he would, he would live. He was 18 or 19. He lived in an RV, and he did exactly what he wanted, and nothing but what he wanted. Right. And there was another school there.
Fred and Claudia Stockwell, and I went to them, and they were looking for an instructor, and I said, well, I think that I would be a really good person to be an instructor, because I've just learned, and I understand what all these people are going through. And I've got three days. But they agreed to give me a job and a place to live, and I came back, and I, that weekend, I moved out of my house here, and I moved into Utah and made... I'm paragliding my life. So I moved down there that first summer. I taught for them. I lived with them. I flew every day. And that summer, instead of there being a Superfinal, there was the World Cup final.
It was the last event of the year, and that year, it was in the Owens Valley. So in the Owens, I saw cross country done proper, and I was trying to go to college at that time. So I went back to Salt Lake. Salt Lake, and went to the University of Utah, and flew around.
There was a lot more cross country going on with hang gliders at that point in the game. So I learned to fly hang gliders, and went down to Flagstaff, and driving through Flagstaff, there was a magnificent sky. And then driving into Flagstaff, I saw there was a college, so I went to school in Flagstaff for a while, thinking that I could learn to fly cross country. And go to college. Did poorly at both of those for a little while. And then, somewhere during that time, I had the good fortune to meet Robbie Whittall. Legend. Yeah. And Othar was around then, and I... God, that must have been like 93 or 94.
Robbie moved to the States. I moved back to Sun Valley. Othar moved to Sun Valley. And we had... That was really... That was really fortunate, because it was just... It was right after Robbie's crest, you know? He'd just... He'd become the first person to win the Hang Gliding World Championships, and the Paragliding World Championships, and he was really good. He was designing gliders for gin.
For a while, he was... He then transferred to Firebird. I went and worked with him at Firebird for a spring. That was really fun, and it was... Where was that? That was... It was in the Tegelberg in Germany. You know, so... Did you fly quite a bit in the Alps, then? No. No, uh-oh. We flew the Tegelberg a little bit, and we flew a site in Austria called Bach. Okay. That I'm sure people know of, but I have a picture of it in my mind. I bet it looks nothing like I remember. Yeah. Because it was just after Robbie's crest. We would do a lot of flying. We never flew cross country. Huh.
We lived in Sun Valley, and we never flew cross country in Sun Valley. I mean, it's something that... I got to hang out with Othar again this summer, and we were talking about it for a while. We never flew cross country here. Wow. We went all over... It just wasn't on your radar. You just didn't know? And it was big, and it was scary, and we were with Robbie, and he didn't want to spend the day flying cross country, so we would go fly, and then we'd land and do something else. And so, you know, he taught us about comp flying, and he took us around and showed us how to have a good time, and it just kind of progressed, you know, and I kept coming back to Sun Valley, and I was aware that it was good, and...
But not from a cross country standpoint. It was more just... It was a cool place. It was a cool place. You could fly paragliders. And the hang gliders were flying cross country. No way. We used to have hangies here. Yeah. I always forget that. You know, Chris... Chris Kastner flew from Greenhorn to Smiley Creek on the day of his wedding, like, 40 miles, and it was, like, the coolest thing anybody had ever done in his hang glider, so we were... We knew that it could happen, but we weren't doing it. Hmm. And then Hansa started coming here to fly tandems, and in the usual Hansa way, he started pushing it, and we became aware that cross country was possible. Was this late 90s?
Yeah. This must have been mid-90s. Mid-90s, okay. 96, 97, 98. And we started flying cross country, and then we started seeing, and we started learning, and it started getting better. And now, after 20 years, it is so fascinating, because now we're learning. I mean, I feel like maybe just this year, I think Farmer gets all the credit for it, can't fly roads. Yeah. We have to fly over the mountains, because that's where all the lift is, and holy shit, if we're just learning this now in 20 years, imagine what we can learn in the next 10,
20 years. It's magnificent. Yeah. Yeah. And so, let's rewind, because we're going to talk a lot about the Wood River Valley, because this place is badass, but rewind a bit to, like, so, you know, you saw across, cross country, you got super into it, you came back to Sun Valley.
When did it all start clicking for you, in terms of, like, when did the distance stuff start happening, and how, like, I know comps have been a big part of your history, and, you know, is that more recently, or is that, was that happening all back then, because you saw the World Cup, like, right off the bat. Yeah. I pretty quickly realized that competitions were fun. Mm-hmm. Super fun. Mm-hmm. You know, I... I didn't know then, now, how much I know that you learn at a contest. I've used this quote before, but they've got to be, they're these super smart people, you know, that can figure out how to fly cross country, but they're crazy enough that they're willing to fly cross country.
It's a really good combination of people that are crazy enough to jump off the side of a hill, and smart enough to get a paraglider. Safely to the ground, two, three, four, five, six, seven hours later. And give me some names. Who was around back then? Ah, let's see, Urs Hari was there on the brand new Adele Superspace. Okay. In a full, like, downhill ski suit, because we didn't have pods then. Yeah. Let's see, from the U.S., John Bouchard was good. Santa was good. Bobby... Bob Schick from Salt Lake City was good.
Robbie Whittall was there. And Olivier, the designer from... Niviuk? From Niviuk was there. No way. He was like an 18 or 19-year-old kid. Awesome. I got to hang out with him, but to see people doing it proper was so awesome, and so fun, and they were good, and they weren't scared, and competitive enough that, you know, they want to push each other. You know, I think, I think in the U.S., we're really lucky that it used to be super competitive. When I first learned to fly, there was, there was two, it was fascinating, there was two camps. There was the Adele camp of Greg Smith and Robbie Whittall and Dave Bridges and Othar and myself, and then there was the John Yates.
John Yates' pro-design camp of Josh Cohn, Zach Hoisington, and, and it was pretty funny. At that point, it, it wasn't, it wasn't friendly. If you saw one of the other guys on the side of the road... Really? You would drive right on by, give them the bird, throw a beer in their head, no problem.
You know? Really? Yeah. It was interesting. Well, I think of paragliding as just this incredibly, you know, the, the, everybody's really concerned about everyone and, and everybody's helping each other out and... Not even a little bit back then. Wow, so different. Um, you know, and so we've seen that morph a lot, but the competitions were always fun. You know, there's no, there's no other group of people I know that want to get together and go hard for a week, you know, charge. There's, there's no waiting. Mm-hmm. You know? Everybody knows the truck goes up the hill at nine, the window opens at noon, the starts at one, there, there's no dicking around. And so, for me, the, the competitions were really, really fun.
Um, it was a good place to go. It was... And
a great
place to learn. Yeah, a great place to learn. I, because I had Robbie as a mentor, I, I learned to fly pretty well and in those beginning contests, I, I did well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a camera. I love this. And I, I took more bad pictures than anybody. I, I could have won several contests if, if I hadn't taken pictures of my thumb, of my knee, pulled out the camera and watched all the batteries just rain to the ground, pulled out the camera, took the picture, let go of the camera and watched the knot that I had tied come untied in the camera. Just fall. Just fall away. It was, it was so soul crushing, but, and where, where, where, where have you flown comps?
You know, we used to have contests in Telluride and Aspen and Chelan. God, the good old days. Oh man. It was so... If anybody's out there, please run contests in Colorado. Please. Oh, it was so, it is such spectacular flying. In 96, I graduated college and that winter. I went to World Cup, I went to the World Cup in Brazil, was magnificent, was fun. It was a party. The flying was good. The food was good. The music was good. The girls were good. Everything was good. And then we went to Venezuela and it was really, really bad. The flying was bad. The food was bad. The hotel was bad.
And the memories, everything there was really bad. And then from there I went to Europe and worked. I worked for and with Robbie, who was the chief designer at Firebird at that time. And so I got to learn about trimming gliders with him. You know, he would test the gliders and then when all the testing was done, I was the inexperienced guy to see what would happen when they released the gliders to the masses. Okay. So that was... You were the masses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was really fun. Yeah. I got to learn a lot. I got to learn a lot. I
got to fly
all over Europe. I got to hang out with Robbie. I got to be at Firebird. Yeah. That was really neat. And this was kind of when Robbie's was... What year? Was that kind of his... Was that when he was winning everything? That was 97. So that was after his heyday. Okay. You know, I think in 98 was when he introduced the serial class. He was still good. And if... You know, at that point... Yeah. Yeah. Anything he wanted to win, he could. Yeah. But he had way more important things than winning on his mind at that point. Right. Okay. And then I liked the Wood River Valley in the summer, so I came back here. And so here then, is that Hansa, Othar, or is that that time frame?
Yeah. Yeah. So 97, 98, Othar was here. I mean, a lot of people don't realize that I think the Wood River Valley has probably had more national champions. Yeah. Than anywhere else. Othar was national champion when he lived here. Dave Bridges was two times national champion when he lived here. Farmer was national champion when he lived here. But I don't know of any other flying site, maybe with Josh, all of Josh's wins, but he doesn't have a home site. Yeah. Right. Yeah. In 2007, I got to go to the ex-Alps in Europe, and that was magnificent. It's... Tell me about the ex-Alps. That...
The ex-Alps was wild. It was cool. It was... Because you were there with Hansa. Yeah. Is that his first? No. That was both of our first... Both of your first. Yeah. My first time. My only time. His first time. Yeah. And at that point, it was a really different race. Yeah. It was an adventure more than a race. Mm-hmm. You had guys like Urs Locher, who did it in sandals. Yeah. You know, and he got to the end, and he was so disappointed that it was over, because all he wanted to do was fly home.
Alex Hofer won that year. He won the ex-Alps in a harness that he had won World Cup races in. So we had... It wasn't exactly the technological... No. We had the lightest weight gear, but it wasn't anything like today. Yeah.
I mean, my harness was heavy, and I was like nine. Yeah. It was crazy. It's just, you're carrying nothing now. Nothing. It was such... And I went in such a different way than like you went this year. Mm-hmm. My supporter was my wife. We had a year-and-a-half-old baby in the car.
And somewhere along the line, I thought it would be a good idea to bring my dad to be the babysitter, but my year-and-a-half-old kid hated my dad at that point in her life. Yeah. My dad smoked cigarettes. My wife hates smoking. His temper is like this long. He would scream at people. My wife was furious. I would leave in the morning, and they would go to the nearest pool for the day.
Yeah, a little bit different, I think. She would come and look for me in the afternoon or evening to see if I needed some help. She would bring me some food. She didn't have a cell phone. We didn't have radios. Quite often, she would call the Red Bull organization and ask where I was.
Okay, just for hilarity's sake, you've got to tell me about walking into Grimmelwald. So... God, these are some pretty funny stories. It was the middle of the race, and I had hyped up the Grimmsel. The night before, taken off on the... It's important to tell everybody, too, that this was before we had the mandatory rest. You guys could go as much as you wanted to go whenever you wanted to go, right? Yeah. Yeah. All night long. So I'd had... I'd gotten some information to get up to the top of the Grimmsel the night before. The pass before the Grimmsel. There's the Grimmsel and the Furka. Furka. Yeah. So I'd gotten some good information that if I walked on the train tracks...
I wouldn't have to do the switchbacks that the road goes up. Well, the reason the train tracks are so flat is because it goes to a tunnel. And you're not allowed to use tunnels in the XLs. So at like 2 in the morning, I get to the tunnel, and I'm like, holy shit. I have like 3,000 feet to walk up a dewy, wet, steep, grassy slope to get to the camper. So I had a big night that night. Yeah. I got up to the pass, slept for maybe an hour, got up in the morning. I did not want to walk down the Furka and then up the Grimmsel again to get in because we had to go to the Eiger that year.
Oh, okay. Yeah. So I walked down onto the boulder field. I was on this massive boulder field. It was pretty much unlaunchable. But it was for sure that I was going to launch. There was no question about it. And there was two old Swiss couples, and I speak no Swiss German, and they spoke no English. But I was able to communicate, okay, if you guys could hold my glider up, I can jump across the tops of the boulders. And I jumped across the tops of the boulders and soared in the morning. Didn't go down. Made it across the Furka and down into... Into the valley there going towards... That's a nasty valley, towards Interlaken.
Yes, exactly. There's a nice town there. Lots of big power lines everywhere. Power lines and lakes and nasty. So I landed. I shouldn't have landed. And I walked all day. And I walked up into Fyrst, and I was coming over. This is now the next day. I've been walking for a day and a half, and it's hot. And I'm tired. And I come into Grindelwald, and it's Swiss Independence Day. And who the Swiss have ever claimed independence from, I don't know. But it was rad because I'm coming over the pass, and I'm walking down into Grindelwald. And there's a full moon coming up over the Eiger.
And there's fireworks going off everywhere. And it was one of those cool ex-Alps moments. And I get into town, and it's like 2.30. And the bars are getting out. And I'm not unpleasant, but I'm exhausted. You're smashed. Yeah, you're smashed. And this pack of like four dudes comes out. And they see me, and they come over, and they can tell that I'm different. And they start talking to me, and then they start picking on me. And they start pushing me. And I've got my pole on. And I've got my glider bag on. And I just drop my poles. And I'm like, come on, fuckers. Let's go. Me and all of you right now.
I have nothing to lose. You kick the shit out of me, and I'm out of this fucking race. Let's fucking go. And they looked at me like I was the craziest person they had ever seen. Which you were. And they walked with me for like 100 yards. And that was the end of it. And it was the last. They were impressed. Yeah. It was the only time since the seventh grade, the closest I've ever come to getting in a fight.
I love it. I love it. It was my one exit out of the race. It was interesting. You know, when we were going through all the training and stuff and talking about the X-Alps, you know, I talked about it endlessly with you to get advice and stuff this winter. It was such a different. Your experience was so much different than Will Gad's. You know, when I did the Rocky Suburbs with Will, every day he said, don't. Don't do it. Don't go do it. Don't go. He hated it. Yeah. He hated that race. And I would say to anybody that has any interest in the possibility of the adventure to do it. I just thought it was the most terrific thing I've ever done. It was incredible. There's only one way to get to that place, you know. Exactly. You will get to that place. Yeah. And there's no shortcuts.
Yeah. You know, and that place is magnificent. You just have to do it. It was magnificent. Magnificent. Let's rewind a little bit. I want to talk about, you know, of course, your big flight here and we'll fast forward to that. But accidents, you had a massive blowout here that I want to hear about because that's pretty terrific. And then have you ever been hurt? No. I've broken a wrist. Okay.
I've hurt my knee a little bit in Aspen crashing once. But no. Knock on wood. Uh-oh. Yeah. And you had, tell me about your blowout here. You've only thrown once. Yeah. Okay. What about your reserve? It was on the R10 at the beginning of the two-liner. It was that first year of the R10. And it was a north day here in Sun Valley, which we've learned is a little bit bumpy.
And it was post-frontal, which makes it a little bit windy and bumpy. And I was flying north. I'd left the Wood River Valley and I was in the Sawtooth Valley and I was trying to get up to Stanley.
And the area had burned the year before. You were over the white clouds. Yeah. I was on the white cloud side of the valley and the area had burned. And I flew back in and it was a super strong day. You know, it was middle of summer. It was post-frontal. And it was really strong. And I found the thermal. And I was turning left. And I was trying to core the thermal. And I just kept getting the first turn I got bumped out of the core. And so I elongated my circle a little bit, you know, and adjusted it. And the second turn I got pushed out of the core again. And so I adjusted my circle.
It
was a
ripper. It was a really strong climb. Yeah. Super-duper strong climb, you know. I mean, the surrounding air was going up at, like, I had eight on my averager. Cool. And when I'd hit the core, you know, even for those three or four seconds on my 15-second averager, it could bump it up to 12. Cool. Screamer. Yeah. It was really, really strong. And the third time I adjusted and I buried the break, you know, so that hoping I could stay in the core. And I'm sure I spun it a little bit. Yeah. And it broke back. And it shot really hard because it shot the energy of the spin and coming out of the corner or out of the core.
And it shot super hard. You were probably spinning the same way as the, yeah, okay. Yeah. You know, so I'm coming out to the left. And I spun it left. And the thermal was going behind me right. And it shot super hard. So hard that it pulled my break knot up into the pulley. Holy shit. And just stuck. And so I fell through and swung through. And it broke back behind me because I was in really strong air. And it surged again. And because my knot was stuck in the pulley. I couldn't input.
And I didn't think to grab the bees. And it collapsed out in front of me. And I fell through. And it shot. Now we're on the third shoot thing. And it went way out in front of me. And then it just propellered. And as it propellered. Out in front. Out in front. As it propellered, the lines just started going. And I was like. They were breaking. Yeah. Holy shit. Lines were just popping. Because those lines were so small. And there was so much tension as it's propellering out in front of me. And I was like. I don't have that move.
So I threw my rescue. And for any of you who's thrown your rescue. This is going to sound dumb. But that second of deployment is forever. Yeah. And I've always heard. You need to grab your bridle. But I don't know what kind of harness these people have. So I'm reaching behind my head. Trying to grab the bridle. And the glider is going batshit crazy out in front of me. And the forest that I'm over is burned out from the year before. And I was high. Just a bunch of steaks. Yeah. You know. I was probably at 12 when the episode started.
And you know. I probably threw it above 11. Yeah. A long time. Yeah. To look down. But by the grace of God. I came down. And I'm not even religious. In this area. The size of like a two car garage. That had no nothing. Oh my God. On the side of the hill. And I landed soft as could be. Reserves work. Reserves work. Yeah. And walked out. Probably walked for four hours to the road. And the first car that passed me. Once I got to a road. Drove me. Unbelievable. And so. What was the aftermath of that like? Like if you.
Did that change anything for you? Did it freak you out? Or have you been through. These are maybe two different questions. Have you been through a time where it's been like. Yeah. I'm not into this right now. Yeah. For sure. So to answer that question. Because I've spent a lot of time thinking about this lately.
I
think that what we do. And what we do in paragliders is push it.
And that's what we enjoy doing. And it's super duper fun.
But the risk is massive. You know.
I think it's kind of fucked up. Because the more I think about it. The reward is. Is inconsequential. You know. So. So. But yeah. There are times when I feel. What? The reward is inconsequential. So the reward is not enough to justify the risk that we're taking. Or it is. It is. It is. But what is the reward? You know. The reward is that smile at the end of the day. You know. The reward is being at cloud base on the Idaho Montana border. And knowing that you're the only person in the sky for a hundred miles. Um. You know. What is that reward beneficial to humanity?
Ah. Okay. I see what you're saying. No. But. But it's pretty special. Is it maybe what I live for? I'm unfortunately afraid. Um. So. Yeah. Did that make me step back a little bit at that point? Have there been times where I've stepped back massively? Um. And that's a pretty personal thing. Yeah. And. And I. You know. I. I think it's really hard. I think as. As beginners. People.
They don't have the timeframe. Or the patience. And. And the risk is really big. Um. And then as intermediates. They still don't have the. The timeframe. Or the patience. And I. I think I'm really lucky that I've played this game for a little while now. And when it. When it feels good. God. It is so good. And if it doesn't feel good. You know. I'm not smart enough to. To say that always. But I think that I. I'm aware to stop and say. Hey. Today's not my day. You know. It's. I. I'm not on like I need to be. To do the things I want to do. Is that. We're. We're getting a little bit ahead of where I wanted to be. But I. I want to hear this anyway.
Is that. One of the reasons you've. You know. You were. You. You've. You know. Flew an R-11. You've been flying ice peaks. You've been flying comp wings for a long time. And. We love flying comp wings. They're different. They're a different animal. But this year. You. You. You backed way off. You were flying a mentor in the beginning of the season. And now you're flying a Triton. You know. I don't think you've flown a B or a C in probably. What? A decade? Yeah. Yeah. More. More. Fifteen years. Fifteen years. Is that part of it? Is that. Is it because.
Are you just. Have you just decided you want to be more safe? Or. Have you decided. It's just.
What have you decided? Why? Because they are different gliders. They're
different animals. They
are different gliders. Um. You know. When Russ Ogden came here. For the last World Cup. And gave his talk. We were all on. You know. Comp gliders. Myself included. Which by the way. I'm going to cut in here. There. That talk. For all of you who are interested. Is on. Uh. My website. Cloudbasedmaham.com. It's a 45 minute video. I just. Got super lucky to turn a camera on that day. It is amazing. It's. A must watch. So check it out. If you want to. It's fantastic. And he started. He talked a lot about these gliders. You know. Comp gliders. And. And how on your game you have to be to fly a comp glider.
And I. Our comp gliders. Paragliding. Is dangerous. Are comp gliders any more dangerous. Maybe a little bit. But for the level. You know. I'm a middle age. Middle class. White guy. I've got two kids. And a wife. I would like to go paragliding every day. But it doesn't happen.
So I. I think to stack the odds in my favor. I am a little bit safer. Flying. A. Certified. Glider. You know. And do I think. A certified glider. As opposed to a comp glider. You know. I. I think. I think today's comp gliders. Are. Super. Duper. Hot. Um. Everybody I know. Who's flown a comp glider this year. Has crashed them. You know. Or thrown a rescue. Or. Or come down hard. Is that bad? No. You know. It's back to that. Risk and reward. That we were talking about earlier.
For those people. The. The risk. Is worth the reward. You know. And. Like our local pilot. Mitch. Who flies paragliders. All. Year. Round. He does. Acro. He does. Tandem. He. Every day. That's flyable. He's flying a paraglider. Do I think it's. Suitable for Mitch. To fly an R-11. I really do. Um. You know. But I. I'm not that guy. When I see. People. When I hear people. Mention. About comp gliders. I. I really think. That's inappropriate. Because. I think. For. People. Like. Mitch. Um. And I don't. Definitely. Don't mean. To put words. In his mouth. Here.
And. The guys. That are. Pushing it. On. The World Cup. They are. Looking. For that. Highest. Level. Of. Performance. They. Are. Looking. For the. Cutting edge. They don't want. An. ENB. Glider. Um. You know. They're. Not. That's. Not. Gonna. Fulfill. Them. With. What. They're. Looking. For. So. I. I. Think. To. Limit. It. Is. Crazy. Because. I. Think. That. Most. Of. The. People. That. Are. Doing. The. Limiting. Are. Way. More. Dangerous. On. Their. ENB. Glider. Because. They're. Not. As. Current. Or. Aware. Of. The. The. Conditions. The. Circumstances. And. The. Glider. As. The. People. That. Choose.
To. Fly. Hot. Gliders. You. Know. Those. Gliders. Have. A. Whole. Different.
And. Wanted. To. What. Were. Doing. You. Know. How. Are. Those. Guys. Flying. So. Far. On. ENBs. And. Now. This. Year. Flying. An. ENC. Glider. I. My. Own. Personal. Conclusion. And. It. Might. Be. Wrong. Is. That. Yeah. The. Flying. In. Europe. Is. Different.
Do. I. Invite. Those. People. That. Are. Doing. Huge. Flights. On. ENBs. Over. Here. And. Show. Us. How. To. Do. It. Yes. Please. We. Would. Love. To. Have. You. Here. And.
I. Think. You. Can. Do. Here. All. And. Having. A. Little. Bit. More. Feel. A. Little. Bit. More. Reach. To. Look. For. Strong. Bits. Of. Air. And. I. You. Know. I. Feel. That. I. Fly. In. The. World. I. Have. Decision. I. Could. This. Year. So.
Transitioning. From. Your. Big. Flight. Three. Years. Ago. 199. Miles. Deep. Into. Montana. Which. Will. Talk. About. What.
Are. Your. Your. Goals. Changed. You. Know. Back. Then.
That. That. Happened. On. A. Great. Day. And. That. Probably. Didn't. Wasn't. Your. Plan. When. You.
Launched. Off. Back. Also. Because. You're. Scaling. Things. Back. With. The. Wing. I. Understand. You. You. Still. Things. Back. A. Bit. Because. You're. You're. Getting. The. Hours. You're.
Feeling. I. My. Goal. My. Dream. Day. When. You. Went. To. Europe. And. Farmer. Was. Going. To. Texas. Was. That. Some. Day. At. The. Beginning. Of. July. I. Would. Get. The. Idaho. Record. Back. Farmer. Would. Get. The. World's. Record. And. You. Would. Make. It. To. The. Raft. In. Monaco. That. Be. Pretty. Good. So.
No. Yeah. I. Want. To.
No. I. I. Think. If. Anything. Now. That. I'm. 42. I'm. Like. Holy. Shit. I'm. A. Middle. Age. White. Guy. The. Next. Step. After. Middle. Age. White. Guy. Is. Old. White. Guy. And. My. Goals. Are. Bigger. And. More. Than. Ever. Before. I. I. Hope. That. I. Have. A. Little. Bit. Of. Experience. Now. So. That. I. Choose. To. Push. Those. Goals. On. The. Right. Day. Um. You. Know. When. The. Conditions. Are. Appropriate. Um. No. I. Know. My. Goals. Years. And. It. Seems. To. Like. You're. As. Passionate. As. You've. Ever. Been. If. Not. More. So. Yeah. I'm. Hungry. As. Ever. You. Know. I. Do. I.
Don't. Know. So. This. Is. This. Something. That. I. Think. People. Ask. Me. All. The. Time. Like. What. You. Know. And. I've. Got. A. Fraction. Of. The. Experience. In. The. Years. That. You. Do. And. Farmer. Does. And. Nick. Does. And. But. I. Keep. I. Been. Asked. I. Was. Asked. This. Morning. You. Know. How. Are. Still. So. Fired. Up. About. This. Talk. About. That. Because. It's. Just. Like. I. Find. That. We're. Participating. In. Something. That. There. Is. The. Learning. Curve. Is. Still. Just.
It's. So. Steep. It's. So. Phenomenal. I. Mean. The. More. We. Learn. In. This. Game. I. Feel. Like. The. More. We. Become. Aware. That. We. Can. Learn. You.
Like. I.
Was. Talking. About.
Learning. He.
He's. Doing. It. So. Much. Better. Than. We. Are. It. Makes. It. So. Fun. You. Know. What. We. Were. Just. At. The. Beginning. Of. The.
Learning. No. We're. Just. Learning. About. Gliding. And. I. Feel. I. Feel. Like. I'm. Just. Learning. How. To. Use. A. Speed. Bar. Really. Effectively. I. Mean. You. Know. The. Art. Art.
Of. Paragliding. Is. Now. Coming. Out. The. Subtleties.
The. Beauty. Of. It. You. Know. Is. Something. That. Keeps. I. Like. Mountains. I. Think. I. Like. Mountains. More. Than. Anything.
About. Paragliding. There's. Still. The. Whole. Alpine. Interaction. That. Is. Limitless. And. I. I. Really. Believe. That. After. 20. Years. I'm. Just. Learning. To. Fly. A. Paraglider. Yeah. Yeah. We're. We're. We're. Just. Starting. Out. It. Seems. Like. Yeah. You. Know. It's. Like. The. It's. Like. The. Beginning. Of. Something. Really. Special. The. Gliders. Are. Getting. So. Good. You. Know. And. And. The. Hand. Of. It. On. The. Other. Side. Of. That. Coin. Having. Now. Done. It. For. A. While. When. I. Do. Sink. Out. You. Know. Which. Happens. On. The. Day. You. Guys. Flew. To. Montana. In. The. Contest. This. Summer.
It. Still. Stings. It's. Kind. Of. Like. Getting. Kicked. In. Balls. But. It's. All. Right. It. Doesn't. It. Doesn't. Bother. Me. It. Doesn't. Bump. Me. Out. You. Know. It. I. Maybe. It's. Fatalistic. But. It. Happens. To. Everybody. Yeah. And. So. You. Just.
Come.
Back. For. More. And. And. Like. Everything. In. Life. We. Probably. We. Learn. Quicker. From. Our. Failures. Than. We. Do. From. Our. Successes. Sure. And. So. You. Know.
It's. Taken. Me. A. Of. Failures. And. And. There's. A. More. To. Come. But. That's. That's. Where. We're. Learning. And. That's. All. Right. You. Know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Been.
At. This. Since. 91. It's. Probably. Hard. To. Even. Remember. This. But. What. Would. You. Have. Told. Your. 50. Hour. Self. Or. Your. 91.
I. Can't. Do. The. Math. Your. 20. Year. Old. Self. 25. Year. Old. Self. You.
Know. When. You. Were. Starting. Out. What. Would. You. Have.
Told. Nothing. Good. Comes. Fast. If. Get. Hurt. This. Game. Is. No. Fun. The. Consequences. Are. Really. Big. They're. Really. Sudden. You. Know. If.
If. Can. Live. To.
Fly. No. But. Really. Aggressive. You. Know. I. Been. Flying. For. Four. Five. Months. And. I. To. The. World. Cup. In. The. Owens Valley. And. I. Wanted. To. Be. Like. Those. Guys. And. I. Saw. Somebody. Die. There. And. I. Was. Like. Oh. My. God. But. Now. Having. Been. In. This. Game. For. A. While. You. Know. Be. Be. Patient. If. It's. Not. Good. Don't. Go. Paragliding. Scary. Paragliding. Sucks. You. Know. There. There. A. Lot. Of. Good. Days. But. You. Have. To. Wait. For. You. Know. It's. It's. Now. September. Like. Fourth. Or. Fifth. And. We. Had. Almost. No. Good. Flying. In. August. And. That's. Okay. You. Know. Yeah. It. A.
Total. Bummer.
I.
Don't. Believe. Anybody. Got. Hurt. Or. No. Rescue. Tosses. But. You. Know. Last. Month. A. Of. People. Got. Really. Scared. Trying. To. Push. It. And. Scared. Is. In. A. Lot. Of. Ways. Just. As. Bad. As. Getting. Hurt. You. Know. It's. Pretty. Hard. To. That. Head. Back. Yeah.
You. Know. And.
Wait. There's. Time. To. Push. It. You. Know. And. I'm. Definitely. Not. Saying. Don't. Push. It. But. Push. It. When. It. Makes. Sense. You. Know. Most. Importantly. Push. It. When. You. Feel. Good. You. Know. When. You're. Aware. And. You're. On. It. Yeah. You. Know. There. You're. On. It. And. You're. Not. All. This. Safety. Talk. Lately. How. We. Need. To. Make. This. Safer. I. Know. If. We. Can. Make. It. Safer. And. I. Think. That. A. Of. The. Fun. Of. Our. Sport. Is. That. The. Focus. That's. Required. You. Know. Everything. Else. We. Do. Everything. Else. I. Do. During. The. Day. I'm. Spacing. Out. And. I. Started. Something. And. Then. I. Buzz. Off. To. Do. Something.
Else. And. I'm. Day. Dreaming. Of. Something.
But. The. Reason. For. Me. Paragliding. Is. So. Fun. Is. Because. I'm. All. In. You. Know. It. I. Don't. Have. A. Of. Bandwidth. But.
To. Do. That. Because. I. Know. If. I. Make. Bad. Decisions. I. Could. Get. Hurt. Or. Die. And. That. Is.
I. Mean. To. Sound. Dumb. But. That's. Big. Part. Of. The. Fun. Of. It. You. Know. That. Is. That. Focus. That. Clarity. Your. Quote. From. The. Sierra. Safari. Yeah. People. Spend. A. Long. Time. Trying. To. To. Meditate. And. To. Present. And. We. Just. I. Just. Take. Off. And. Shit's. Okay. Yeah. I. Don't. Have. Mortgage. Problems. And. Work. Problems. And. And. Phone. Calls. That. I. Need. To. Return. I. Need. To. Go. Paragliding. And. It's. Going. To. Be. Good.
Very. Cool.
This. One. Of. Things. I. To. Ask. You. If. There. Been. Like. Turning. Points. You. Know. When. Look. Back. At. The. Last. 20. Some. Odd. Years. Of. Flying. Paragliders. Have. There. Been. Moments. Or. Mentors. Or. Times. Where. Things. Have. Been. Like. I'm.
At. The. Next. Level. This. Is. An. I'm. This. Is. Something. Was. It. The. Big. Flight. To. Montana. Was. That. Where.
There. Times. Where. You. Been. Like. Wow. I've. Kind. Of. Got. This. In. A. You. I. Figured. Something. Out. No. I. Think. Like. We. Were. Talking. About. Earlier. The. The. More. I. Learn. The. More. I. See. That. We. Can. Learn. Um. And. No. I. Don't. Feel. Like. We're. Very. Good. Yet. Yeah. Um.
So. Has. That.
Been. Some. Mentors. Yeah. Um. Robbie Whittall. You. Know. Was. A. Really. Good. Mentor. Um. My. First. Instructor. Claudia. Stockwell. She. Uh. She. Gave. Me. Some. Good. Advice. Um. Put. All. Of. Your. Flying. Stuff. Away. Before. You. Get. Fucked. Up. After. Flying.
Forgotten. That.
Um.
You. Know. O. Thar. Was. A. Really. Good. Mentor. And. Pushing. It. That. Hansa.
Hansa's. A. Really. Good. Mentor. I. Think. Having. You. Here. Has. Really. Helped. You. Know. I.
Don't. For. A. Time. It's. Always. Been. Me. Here. Mm. You. Know. And. I. Had. Hansa. Come. And. That. Was. Fun. And. I. Learned. A. From. Hansa. Um. And. Then. Well. I. Mean. In. The. Beginning. It. Was. It. Robbie. And. He. Came. Through. And. Then. He. Left. And. Othar. Came. Through. And. He. Left. And. Learned. A. From. Him. And. Then. Farmer. Came. And. Still. Here. And. And. Now. I'm. Really. Starting. To. Learn. From. Farmer. That's. Taken. A. Long. Time. Um. You. Know. Now. That. You. Are. Here. You. Have. A. Different. Outlook. On. It. And. I. I've. Learned. A. From. Watching. You. Fly. Um.
No. You. Know. A. Bell. Court.
Maybe. He's. All. Of. Our. Mentor. You.
Know. He's. Teaching. Us. About. Style.
Yeah. Which. Is. Maybe. In. Our. Sport. Where. There's. There's. No. Real. Rewards. That. Is. That's. The. Best. Thing. We. Can. Have.
This. Mentor. That. Guy. Has. More. Style. Than. Anybody. You. Know. That. That. Style. Is. Endless. And. Inspiring. And. And. Really. Really. Cool. Um. Yeah. You. Know. I.
Yeah. The.
People. Pushing. It. All. The. Time. I. Think. Are. Just. Dumb. Fox. But. People. That. Can. Push. It. On. Good. Days. And. Do. Cool. Things. Are.
You. Know. We're. At. The. Tip. Of. The. Iceberg. Cody. Almost. Flew. To. Jackson. The. Other. Day. Is. So. Exciting. To. See. That. Kind. Of. Stuff. That. Is. Really. Cool. When. We. Were. Driving. Down. To. Start. 500. Miles. Of. Nowhere. We. Were. You. As. We. Often. Do. Talking. About. Accidents. And. This. Has. Been. A.
Big. Year. That. Like. You. Know. It's. It. Yeah. It's. Dangerous. And. It's. Risky. And. But. It's. Fun. And. What. Else. Are. Gonna. Do. With. Yourself. Do. We. Belabor. This. Point. Too. Much. In. Our. Sport. Yeah. I. Still. Think. That. And. It's. Terrible. To. See. Friends. Get. Hurt.
Um.
It's. Terrible. To. See. Friends. Get. Hurt. Unnecessarily. I.
You. Know. No. Other. Sport. I. Do. People. Get. So. Worked. Up. About. Other. People. Getting. Hurt. Pick. Up. A. Skateboarding. Magazine. And. It. Doesn't. Talk. About.
Broken. Legs.
Pick.
And. The. Avalanche. Awareness. Group. Those. People. There. On. The. Forefront. And. And. Even. That. With. A. More. People. Backcountry. Skiing. Than. The. Numbers. Of.
Deaths. Per. Year. In. The. World. I. Think. That. Is. Going. To. Grow. The. Sport. You. Know. Climbing.
Climbing. I. Believe. The. American. Alpine. Journal. Does. An. Annual. Accident. Summary. That. Would. Be. Something. If. If. The. Magazine. Wanted. To. Do. That. You. Know. And. Since. We. Did. 500. Miles. To. Nowhere. There's. There's. Accident. Reports. In. The. Magazine. Anymore. There's. There's. Accident. Column. That. I. Recently. Read.
You. Know. And. Again. It's. Talking. About. Safety. But.
We're. Jumping. Off. The. Side. Of. A. Hill. On. Modified. Beds. Sheets.
Not. Kid. Ourselves. That. It's. Gonna. Be. Safe. Let's. Appreciate. It. And. Enjoy. It. And. Try. And. Get. Good. At. It. And. Give. Respect. To. The. People. Who. Are. Better. Than. Us. At. It. Um. Let's. Learn. From. Our. Mistakes. You. I've. Been. Lucky. I. Haven't. Been. Hurt. Yet.
Is. It. Coming. Probably. But. I. Think. I. Have. Be. Honest. That. It's. It's. Out. There. You. Know. In. My. Do. I. Believe. That. I'm. Better. Than. Everybody. Else. That's. Been. Hurt. No. You. Know. I've. Been. Lucky. Yeah. Is. It. Better. To. Be. Lucky. Than. Good. Yeah. Sure. I. Want. To. Put. That. In. Perspective. With. Where. We. Live. With. The. Wood. River. Valley. I. Believe. The. World. Record's. Gonna. Go. Down. Here.
I'm. Pretty. Psyched. About. Living. Here. In. A. Place. That. Could. Happen. You're. About. The. Most. Excited. Person. In. This. Valley. To. Be. In. This. Valley. But. Tell. Me. About. Flying. Here. What's. So. Special. About. It.
I. Think. We're. Pretty. Lucky. Because. You. Know. We've. Got. The. Interface. Of. The. Desert. And. The. Mountains. So. We. Have. The. Hot. Dry. Desert. And. We. Have. The. Alpine.
You. Know. In. In. The. Little. Contest. That. We're. Surrounded. By. Mountain.
There's. Roads. In. The. Valleys.
There's. Places. To. Land. Everywhere. This. Summer. This. Spring. I. Went. To. Washington. And. To. B.C. To. Go. Flying. And. It's. Terrifying. Because. Everything. Is. Forest. And. There's. Nowhere. To. Land. And. Around. Here. We. Can. Land. Anywhere. So. It. Makes. It. Pretty. Comfortable. To. Commit. To. Where. You. Need. To. Go. To. Maybe. You're. Gonna. Have. A. Hour. Walk. But. So. What. When. You. Get. To. The. Road. Hitch. Hiking. Works. For. Sure. Somebody's. Gonna. Pick. You. Up.
It's. Strong. I.
Think. Alpine. Paragliding. I. Would. Like. To. Invite. You. To. Come. To. River. Valley. That's. What. We. Want. Come. Check. It. Out. I. Think. I. Think. July. Is. The. Best. Time. Of. Year.
And. I. You. Know. I. Think. I. Think. That's. We're. Gonna. Learn. And. You. Know. Like. Like. Everything. There's. To. Me. The. Beauty. Of. Wood. River. Valley. Is. That. There's. Nobody. Here. You. Know. There's. Our. Club. Has. 20. People. In. A.
Ten. Of. Those. People. We. Alone. Totally. You. Know. You're. So. Let's. Let's. End. It. On. Your. Big. Flight.
What. Was. What. Was. Was. On. Your. Multiple. Questions. Here. You. Know. A. Few. Weeks. Before. You. Did. That. Matt. Flew. 193. Miles. 186. 186. You. Flew. 193. Or. You. Flew. 198. Okay. So. When. Matt. Did. That. I. Was. In.
Europe. And.
That. Another. Realm. Was. That. Part. Of. It. And. Then. You. Know. In. Terms. Of. Just. Inspiring. You. Also. Was. It. Were. You. You. Know. Did. You. Set. Off. Set. Out. That. Spring. To. Be. Like. I'm. Going. 200. Miles. This. Year. Or. I'm. Going. To. Fly. Deep. Into. Montana. This. Year. Was. That. That. Was. Always. On. Your. Radar. It. Had. Been. For. Years. Or. Was. That. Something. That. Just. Happened. And. What. Was. Required. To.
For. The.
Steps. Things. I. Have. To. Be. The. Head. Space. I'm. Really. Lucky. My. Wife. Is. Really. Supportive. You. Know. So.
I. Try. To. Be. A. Scene. And. Especially. In. The. Spring. I. Really. Try. To. Be. A. Husband. So. That. We. Have. A. You. Know. I. I. Need. To. Have. A. Good. Home. You. Know. And. Make. That. A. Good. Scene. And. That. Makes. It. That. Makes. It. Really. Easy. For. Me. To. Be. All. In. And. Every. Day. I. Go. To. The. Hill. I'm. Going. As. Far. I. To. Fly. As. Far. As. I. Possibly. Can. You. Know. That.
I. Love. The. Fact. That. We. Go. Do. Something. And. Somebody. Asked. Me.
You. You. You. Get. To. Go. A. Bit. Crazy. And. You're. By. Yourself. And. Nobody. Thinks. You're. Weird. For. Me. They. Do. I.
Don't. Know.
So. Yeah. I. Got. My. Home. Life. Was. In. A. Order. And. And. She's. Super. Supportive. And. She. Understands. Completely. And. She. Really. She. Really. Inspires. Me. And.
Motivates. Me. And.
So. I. Was. You. Know. I. Was. Ready. To. Fly. cross country. As. Far. As. Possible.
You. Know. And. The. Flight. Was. Magnificent. I. Think. I. Had. Forty. Mile. Stretch. In. Montana. On. The. Side. Of. A. Cloud. Street. Between. Fourteen. And. Seventeen. Where. If. I. Got. Too. Low. I. Just. Would. Duck. Under. The. Clouds. And. I. Too. High. I. Just. Work. Out. To. The. Left. And. Just. Leave. And. Just. Glide. And. At. The. End. Of. The. Day. I. Was. In. New. Country. What. I. Now. Know. Is. The. Tobacco. Roots. But. I. Was. Gliding. Into. The. Mountain. Range. And. It. Was. Like. Six. O 'clock. In. The. Evening. And. I. Had. A. Pretty. Funny. Thought. In. My. Head. I. Was. Like. Man. Evil. Knievel. Jumps. Over. The. Canyons. But. I'm. Gonna. Jump. Over. A. Fucking. Mountain. Range.
Watch. This.
And. I. Just. Glided. Deep. Into. The. Range. And. I. Got. A. Nice. Climb. Up. Over. The. Range. In. The. Evening. Light. And. Had. A. Super. Sweet. Glide. And. Flew. Out. And. I. Landed. In. A. Field.
And. A. Lady. In. A. Pickup. Truck. Drove. Out. You. Know. Like. 50. Year. Old. Lady. And. She. Said. You're. Not. Going. To. Here. Are. You. And. Said. Good. God. Ma 'am. I. Hope. Not.
And. She. Said. What. Are. Doing. And. I. Tried. To. Explain. That. I. Had. Flown. My. Paraglider. There. From. Sun Valley. And. Because. I. Wasn't. Camping. There. She. Was. Elated. And. She. Drove. Me. Into. Town. In. The. Three. Forks. And. I. Called. My. Mom. Like. You. Do. When. You. Land. And. I. Told. Her. I. Was. In. Three. Forks. And. She. Said. Oh. Hon. There's. The. Nicest. Hotel. There.
And. I. Said. Oh. Mom. I'm. All. Right. You. Know. I. Sleep. Outside. Tonight. And. I. Up. With. Mom. And. About. A. Minute. Later. I. Didn't. Know. But. Standing. In. Front. Of. The. Hotel. And. A. Lady. Walks. Out. Of. The. Hotel. With. A. Glass. Of. Champagne. And. Says. Son. Your. Mom. Got. You. A. Room. No. Way.
So. That. Was. Really. Cool. And. Then. I. Went. In. And. I. Had. Dinner. On. My. Mom. And. Spent. The. Night. In. This. Cool. Old. Railway. Hotel. And. I. Called. My. Good. Friend. And. Ski. Partner. Christian. Nickham. Who's. Got. An. Airplane. And. I. Said. Hey. Christian. I'm. I'm. In. Montana. And. He. Said. I'm. On. My. Way. And. The. Next. Morning. He. Was. There. Nine. O 'clock. In. The. Morning. And. We. Got. To. Fly. The. Whole. Route. In. Reverse. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Well. That. Next. Summer. We. Got. Pretty. Close. We. Were. On. The. Madison. River. There. That. Day. Yeah. That. Pretty. Exciting. Well. Cool. Nate. I.
Really. Appreciate. Your. To. Myself. And. A. Whole. Bunch. Of. Other. People. Over. The. Years. If. Enjoyed. The. Podcast. As. Always. In. The. Following. The. Footsteps. Of. One. Of. My. Favorite. Podcast. With. Dan. Carlin. Hardcore. History. All. We. Asked. For. Is. A. Bucket. Show. Goes. A. Way. So. Guys. Have. All. Been. Really. Generous. With. Your. Donations. I. Appreciate. Very. Much. It. Keeps. Me. Going. With. This. I'm. Gonna. Do. It. Anyway. I. Love. It. I. Think. It's. Just. Fantastic. Bringing. This. Knowledge. To. The. Flying. World. Hope. You. Enjoy. It. If. You. Did. Please. Feel. Free. To. Share. It. With. Your. Friends. And. Family. And. See. You. Next. Time. On. The. Podcast. Cheers.