Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. Got a really fun show for you today. We had a lot of laughs with this one. And there's also just a ton of good content with my great friend down in Valle, Stefano Salgado, who is an amazing culinary trained chef. And so I love him just for the food alone. But he and I have been on the task committee for ages and ages every year at Monarca. And this year, he and his lovely wife, Natalia, were part of the support crew for Tanguy for the X-Alps. So I saw him a bit over in Europe. And it was really fun to see him just handle all of that and get his perspective on what it's like to be on the support crew and what he saw and the madness that is that race.
So as you all know, if you listen to the show regularly, you hear me talk about the Red Bull X-Alps quite a bit. It's one of my favorite topics. But this one was really fun to just get it from his perspective. But we also get into the work he's been doing with Nick Greece and Julian Garcia, the head of the French team and the coach for the French team for a very long time. I've gotten to know Julian quite well over the years. And he's, of course, been on this podcast. But he has been offering these trainings at various competitions. Well, this might have been the first one. The first one for outside of the French team was down in Valle for the Monarca this year. So they did a few days of training before the race and then during the race. And it was pretty much just Julian's show.
And they did a lot of game theory. I got to fly with them once before the comp, which was fantastic. But kind of putting control theory into place and not just talking about it, but going out and trying all these various things to show those. Of us who are slow to figure this stuff out, how it works. And it was awesome. And it was awesome to see their students put things in place and get it figured out. So we talk about that and also talk about his PWC win a couple of seasons ago down in Brazil. Might be. I didn't research this, but we were both thinking he might be the only North American that's won the World Cup.
That's probably ridiculous. I'm sure there's others. But. At least in recent memory. And so, yeah, he just had one down at Andradas in Brazil and won that World Cup. And Julian was there feeding his headspace and giving him tactics every day. And he basically just followed it. And what do you know, he won the World Cup. So we talk about that. Just the mind space required and how you want to approach competitions.
Obviously, you've got to have the skills in place to begin with, which is definitely something that Stefano has had forever. But like me and many others, kind of flies like a cowboy and gets out front and presses really hard. And sometimes that's not the way to win. So we get into all these things and had a lot of fun. And it was I've been wanting to get Stefano on the podcast for ages. And we finally did it. And you get to receive all the benefits from that. Enjoy.
Hey, buddy. How are you? Hey, how's that? How's
Baie? Baie is great. Delivering every day. High cloud base at the moment. Have you been flying much? Not at all. I'm a chicken now. I'm old.
Yeah, you said you said we've been chatting a little bit lately, talking about wings and that kind of thing. You said you're not super motivated right now. What's the is you just more motivated, more, more motivated to go sailing with with Nat and Cook? And what are you motivated for right now?
No, I'm motivated. I'm motivated in flying, but with all these things about new rules and everything, so I'm kind of waiting, I'm expecting like an expectation to see what's what are the new rules coming out for the new gliders and to see what's going to happen with the with competition with CC competition. I think I'm going to do a couple of open class SRS, like zero class competitions this year. We have one in Tapalpa in November, so I'm excited about it. And maybe go to Europe and do some in Europe this year. So I think the CCC open class competitions for me this year will be very few, just Monarca in Valle.
And I think we might have a PWC. That's what the words say in the end of the year. Cool. So if that happens, well, for sure, I'm going to put my ass to train and be 100 % ready.
Yeah, we got a few things I want to chat with you about for sure competition. And, you know, you've been working with Julian Garcia, the French coach, you've been pulling him into your, your business with Nick with guiding and you guys did a really cool kind of comp training before and during the Monarca, which I got to do with you guys one day, which was really interesting. And you guys kind of did these kind of a war game, I would call it. But scenario where it was really neat and war is not the right word, but it was, it was really cool to just not just talk about, you know, control theory and stuff, but go out and test how these things work. So definitely want to get to that with you, but I'm excited to talk to you first about the X-Alps.
You, you and I both have our hats on here. Yeah. We got to see each other not nearly enough during the X-Alps. Yeah. You were doing my thing. You were doing your thing. You were supporting Tangi's team and the French team and you were cooking. You had your own vehicle. You're with Natalia. I'm sure it was a blast, but we had this funny kind of interaction at the end of it when we were at the lake at the finish. And I remember you and Natalia just being kind of blown away by the whole thing. Destroyed. Yeah. You were destroyed. You were exhausted like everybody is. But also I think it'd just be fun to hear your perspective. You know, because I've had a lot of athletes on the show talk about it over the years, but not many teams.
Well, it's, it's very interesting to look at it as a, as a supporter and also as a pilot, because once you understand what's happening in the air and once you understand like what more or less the kind of routes they're taking and also your job as a supporter in the ground, it makes a very fun mix of understanding the competition on the ground every single day. You know? Yeah. A lot, a lot of, of us that we've watched the Excels in the past years, we've looked through the computer and like, yeah, this is what these guys are doing. But there's a whole world behind the athlete that is happening for that guy to be able to start at five o 'clock in the morning and to be able to run during the whole day and be in a hundred percent like physically, mentally.
And also the, the motivation of the team, how they, The energy of the team is managed, how every little member of the team makes a very important job to be able to produce this effect on the team, on the athlete. And it was very interesting analyzing, for example, how Kriegel's team was in the camp before starting the camp, how they were eating small pieces of very energetic foods during the whole day to be able to build up reserves in the body. And then how these rookies, they were coming and they were asking their other.
Their team's like, what should I do right now? And it was like, it's almost 12 hours from the start and you're still asking what you should do. So it's very interesting of looking at the whole perspective from the very, very experienced teams to the rookies. And us, I think we knew it was going to be hard. We knew it was going to be a challenge. But I don't think we even we like we thought maybe from the 1 % of what. It's going to be really yet at the end. It was it was like over our expectations, we had to drive. We were starting to drive at 6 o 'clock in the morning and we're ending to drive at 6 o 'clock in the afternoon and the us, we were in charge of food.
So we had to we had to to go to the supermarkets while they were flying, but also an interesting thing for me was that because of my my competition. Background and flying background, I was able to not help them in the strategy, but to be able to be communicating with the team in a certain way that that my information was taking in a certain way. And and it was a very, very nice team that we we made with the team and then and all the other guys and see also how like the supporters, the runners. The people that that the porters that take the food and the water up to the mountain, we
have one one of the guys one day we like I remember with Nati, he he run with with Tangi up a mountain and when when he came and land and we pick him up, he was completely yellow. He looked like parts in some yeah, he was crazy. He was like in full ketosis. I don't know how you said in English and the and and you could see like. Dude, you really need to eat something right now, if not, you're you're going to you're going to break. Wow. So, yeah, it's a it's very interesting to be able to look and normally I'm the one competing in in regular cross country competition. But now I was in the other side and I was like, see, this is not paragliding. This is nothing that we've seen before.
These guys are like aliens.
How you guys had a really big team. What was that like from a man? Management perspective, because it seemed like when I did tie in with your team, which wasn't very, very often is, you know, sometimes you just end up with teams a lot and other times I hardly saw you guys. But how was that from a management perspective and just managing all the different vehicles and people? And well,
food wise was kind of hard because we had three different vans and I had the food in one van. So most of the days in the morning I would prepare breakfast for everyone. Yeah. And I would prepare some kind of snack or sandwiches to give the other guys and to have Tanguy with with snacks and also like he it's also very hard to cook for Tanguy because it's like cooking for a five year old kid that doesn't like to eat like my nephews that they eat. They eat more things and like they're five years old and super picky, right? He just likes
fast food and stuff. Oh, I can't. What a shame.
Yeah, he likes very picky. But in the other hand, you have, for example, team. Yeah. And Pedro, that the team likes, he's he's a foodie man. That guy is like he should write a cookbook and then and then Pedro, the other one of the other supporters, that guy, he's like he's crazy about tacos. So every day he's like, is this going to be taco night?
Yeah. So it was it was super fun. Just one day I was not able to deliver. Food myself to the team. We were coming down to Locarno and, you know, we are used to to American like this, like Western roads that they're big, that a car can fit. Yeah. And we were driving these like not 20 foot van. So it's big. So so I don't know, 20, 19 foot. I don't know. And the and we're driving up the mountain of Locarno from Locarno going up to the mountain because supposedly Tanguy was going to walk off and we're going to fight. And then he was going to go to the next landing that it was like more towards.
So I don't know. And but there was a storm coming and I'm not used to driving these type of roads. So we go up with Natalia and he's like, what's going like, how are we going to go down this road? And they're like, you're turning and one road, one one wheel is in the hill and the other one is falling down. I mean, like then there's a truck coming down. And I like, so we arrive up to the mountain, like shaking like this with Matthew and it's like, OK, we made it. And then we arrive with Tim and they're like, no, he's not going to stop here. He's going to go and eat over there to the next day in the next year. Shit. And then there was a storm coming down, like coming down the valley. And I thought that he's like, either we go down right now or we're not going to like we're not coming down this road.
So we drove down.
This was the day that had the. Huge, massive overdevelopment, right? And Tanguy had taken that crazy line all the way to the south of the Alps, into the Rhone and came back around. He had a really good day that
day. I think so. Yes. Because there were two very big overdevelopments. One was coming down to Locarno and the other one was with where he got sucked by the cloud. What's his name this day? Yeah, Tim Malonghi. Tim Malonghi. Yeah. That was crazy.
The day
he quit. Yeah. And but this day. He, Tanguy, he went up while he was he was driving up. So so we spoke with Tim. OK, I'm going to drive down. So I'm right at the landing when he arrives and I can have like hot food and ready food for him. No, I go down the mountain in the middle of the storm. It was not nice. And suddenly they call me, hey, he's not going to fly because of the storm. You need to go up again. I am not going up that road again. So.
I went to the bottom of the mountain. I cooked everything. I called an Uber and
this girl from like meet your like Eastern Europe. I don't know where comes in an Uber with ferry wheels and like like these like domino things hanging from the like. It looked like a very pinky Uber. And I look at her and I tell her, have you ever been up there? And she's like, yeah. OK. So I gave her the bags and we delivered food to the top of the mountain and we slept in the bottom of the mountain. That was the only day I was not able to be. They were not very happy. But yeah.
How about Natalia? Did she I mean, you guys had just gotten married in March. Yeah, she almost divorced me. That's going to say that's an odd vacation, man.
Yeah. Honeymoon. What are you going to do in your honeymoon? We're going to be chasing. We're
going to be chasing
Red Bull athletes around the Alps, driving for 12 hours a day.
But every time I saw her, she was laughing and having a blast. Did she like the experience of seeing it? Was it kind of just mind blowing? Was it boring? What do you think?
I don't think she would do it again. Yeah. My wife, I don't think. No, I think I would do it again because I like these kind of things. Yeah. But the the the. The. The hardest part is that you're in expectation all day long. So like people say, oh, you're driving in the middle of the Alps. No, you're driving. You're you're going to every single parking lot in the middle of the Alps. Yeah. And waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. No, that's that's really the life of a supporter in when you're cooking and then you're driving and you arrive and then you have to cook very fast. And many times like Tangi or Tim or I like. I don't know how many kilos the team. Lost during this company, but I had to be chasing him with a ball and like be stuffing food in his mouth.
Like, yeah, so, yeah, it was it was the it was interesting when
when you maybe at the time or since then, what what's what was the kind of most surprising thing was what was the thing that was that you weren't prepared for that you were just kind of, whoa, I had no idea it was going to be X. That fast or that kind of pace or.
There were many times that because the Alps are these huge, massive, like we like you guys know, these massive like chains of mountains that you don't have a lot of connection roads between the like crossing from side to side of. So even if if the athlete was 40, 50 kilometers away, but he was in another system, another valley system, you had to drive like six hours to go around the mountains and go to him. Yeah. So. Yeah. The point of of like the point of my job was to and that was my stress was to be able to be on time every single time he would land. I would have some some kind of food for him. No. And the and I tried to make like I made him gnocchi and I made him pasta and I made pasta every single day.
And now they eat these weird things. You know, these these Frenchies, they are they they they're very. Famous for their food around the world. But these kids like to eat something called a banana.
Yeah, that it's basically you grab a banana, you smash it and then you you make like scrap like very soft scrambled eggs, like like very mushy scrambled eggs not cooked all the way. Yeah. And they just like grab and pound that supposedly is like super big in the fitness world and it's full of calories and energy. And.
So, yeah, they had to be like, if banana, banana, banana.
Oh, God.
Yeah. Oh, FF. Okay.
Got you. Oh, man. Yeah.
Eggs with banana. And so, yeah, cooking that at four o 'clock in the morning every single day.
That was, I think, the hardest of everything. I was like, dude, like you have a trained chef with you, like or like you can or like you want French toast, you want pancakes, you want waffles, you want like like you want a. Like a burrito. What do you want? Like, no, no, no, no. Shit. Okay. Oh, cool. Done.
So much talent put to waste there. But I mean, if you I wish I was still doing the race because if you could have been on my team, I just wouldn't have even raced. I would say, you know what, let's just. Yeah, we
would just say we would just like grab a nice lake and. Just
hang out at the Han and come and let everybody go. And we just. Yeah,
just don't be the last one. So the race continues.
Yeah, exactly. Just stay ahead of the last place. That actually be a fun goal to not get eliminated. Yeah, I
just don't want to get eliminated, but that's it.
But you would do it again. And I think you'll do it again. Yeah, it's pretty wild, isn't it? I've never experienced another event that's like it. It is. It is amazing.
Yeah. I spoke to the organizers about making the Red Bull XL Taco truck. Yeah. So instead of cooking for one team, I could go and cook for everyone and be chasing like you do when you go and chase with pizzas and you go with everybody chasing, like do the same, but like having like this little taco truck chasing the athletes and just like and you can feed tacos to the athletes and to the crowd and it would be nice.
It'd be cool to have a culinary channel. That'd
be really fun. Yeah, and it's it's it's it's. It's nice to see because every single team has their like they grab a big ball like plastic ball and they just like add stuff and they're just like running and eating off a ball like that.
And I understand there's a there's a time issue, but at the end you could see like there were teams that they were resting a lot and they would be arriving at the same time as the teams they were hurrying up like these night passes, for example, they don't work. Yeah. They like the next day they're so tired, like they don't they don't like their performance. The night pass
works works against you for sure. Yeah. I was amazed. One of the things that that I never saw when I was racing that I saw this time that I was quite impressed by. I mean, if I ever did the race again, I would try to emulate it more. But the last day, the day Chrigel. And Lars and Simone and Aaron made it in on their way to Laramoose. I took off with those guys that morning and they had about 70 K to go to Laramoose and then they had to land and then hike back up again and then finish the race. So they had a big day. I think they had to fly, you know, 250 K or something that day. So, I mean, I had a big day, but when I got I got up to the launch before anybody arrived, Simone Simone was the first one up there.
And back in my day, I would have been antsy. I would have, you know, had all. Shit ready to go and been just waiting for the first little puff of wind and taken off and probably blown it and bombed out because I was it was always just such a race. It was I was in that mode of you got to go. You got to just kind of keep moving. It's so fast all the time. And they were up there just laughing and telling jokes and goofing off. And they were in no hurry at all. And, you know, when I would have, I would have definitely taken off a half an hour before they did, but they were, they were really casual. They were crazy. They knew they were going to have a race later in the day, but they knew that between there and Laramoose, they were all friends. They weren't going to race. They weren't going to fly fast. They had to get there, not bomb out, not waste any energy.
They were, they were veterans. They were, they were taking their time and they, they looked fresh as daisies. You know, they just, they didn't look tired and it wasn't, the weather was great this year. It was not representative of a typical X-Alps. So, I mean, they, they only really had the two bad days. And so, yeah. So they had flown. A lot. So they weren't worn out, but it was just interesting to see that veteran presence, you know, that, that kind of mindset of, of incredibly being incredibly calm.
I think that's, that's a, what's the name of the guy that won is the Italian. Aaron. Aaron. I don't, I don't, I think that's, that's really what the last, the last day of the X-Alps. You could see the X-Alps.
He flew like it was the last day of the Superfinal and he had to win that day. And you could see his track just climbing and gliding, climbing and gliding, climbing and gliding. And he was, he was not taking times and crossing valleys to try to go to the mountains and cruise around. That, that guy was just like hauling ass. Like he wanted it bad. Like if it would be like. Like 150 kilometer tasking on any other day of a cross country competition. And I think that was a big difference in the mentality of the last day between Aaron and the rest. Chrigel is also a great XC competition pilot, but Aaron, I think that's where he was above the rest in exactly that day.
Because the rest was regular XC, XC, X-Alp conditions, you know, where you had to be reading everything. But the last day was very marked, was like a couple of turn points. You had to be, and Aaron just kicked their asses like, like instantly. I
think Aaron's, Aaron's mindset, that race. Cause I, at Locarno, when I tied in with him, he top landed up there, the place you're talking about, you were with Tanguy. And I was running along with him as he was running to the turn point. And I said, Aaron, what's your, what's your mindset? What are you thinking about right now? And he looked at me like I was an idiot. And he went, what's my mindset is to win, you know? And this was. Yeah. I guess that was just the day before. I mean, they were really hauling ass at that point, but yeah, I mean, he was in that mindset. And I think that last day it was, Hey, I've got to take the riskier line here. I can't take the obvious down to the South. And cause that's way further. I got to take the, especially for him, the riskier line, because it, it demanded navigating a lot of airspace and Aaron sucks at airspace. He hates airspace. No, they, they just went around.
Yeah. Yeah. But he had to go, you know, to stay under. That one and make the crossing across the Valley. That's tricky airspace through there. And he just decided, okay, I have to go this way if I'm going to win, you know? So he was willing to gamble, which was cool to see.
Yeah, no, no. It was, it was great to see that last, that last, uh, that last day it was like, because it was, it was like watching a very intense Superfinal task. No, like you had these pilots and also. Griegel had a big disadvantage. Advantage with his gear, his gear, his gear. Like, I don't, I don't remember what's the name of the Canyon, but they were like doing sled rights in the morning. And it was a little Canyon with power lines and they had to fly from the top of the Canyon and we're sitting in the middle of the Canyon and you could see the performance of the glider. Perfect. It was like testing the glide of a, of a, of a, oh, from
Tracy may add that day
too. I don't, I don't know. Coming out. So they were, they were flying and you could see, I don't fly. Flying and then you could see, and then griegel when he landed, when he took off, he was like, yeah, he was gliding. Okay. But he landed maybe like two kilometers short of the other guys though. And that's what he
always talks about. I mean, his magic over the years has always been making two kilometers on everybody all the time. It's just these little bits, little bit extra flying, little bit, extra fast, little bit extra one more little move, you know, and with the, when the weather is good and to be on gear, that is less. I just. Me, he, he, he didn't, it wasn't stacked up for him this year, which was cool to see. Yeah. I mean, it was great to see air and just throw down.
Yeah. Since the first day he arrived to the top of the mountain, where in the top of the gondola, where the first takeoff is and everybody arrived, this guy just came in, put his pants down. Like his winner was all over the place. And he was like, he was like, you know, a dog that comes to a post and pee on the post and say, this is my territory that mother fucker did. I was sitting with him. With Natalia looking at the takeoff and suddenly I was like, okay, we're going to have a show. Okay. Oh, okay.
He just went like full on. Okay. It's his territory. It's his competition since the first day. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah.
See, these are the stories you don't hear on Instagram. That's great. Yeah. Uh, cool, man. Well, Hey, let's switch gears. I want to take us to Brazil. So yeah. Couple years ago. It was two years ago now, right? When you won. Oh, three years ago now. Okay. Uh, where was that? Was that Castelo?
It's breaking. Where was that? Where was it in Brazil?
Andradas, Brazil.
Andradas. Yeah. I've never flown there. You won, you won that world cup. So we're talking about mindset. We're talking about anybody who's flown with you knows, you know, you fly very, you're, you're, you're very bold. You're very. Very cowboy, uh, you know, you, you, you love, you love to lead out a ton. You, you fly your own lines. No, what was the mentality there in Brazil? It, you know, it's, it tends to be softer. It's not like VIA, right? It's not strong,
not, not Andradas. And what happened really is that I am Mexican, but my mother is, I'm also French because of my mother. No. So thanks to, to that. And because it's the language barrier. And everything, it's easy. I, I've been training a lot with the, and talking a lot to the French team and I became very, very good friends with the Julian Garcia, the coach of the French team. And in that specific competition, Julian came to Andradas and it was only Julian, Artur, uh, and two other, two other pilots and, and, and that's it. No. So I was able to participate more normally.
Uh, uh. I'm there. I'm just listening. I don't do a lot of questions. I listen and that's it. Right. I try not to interrupt a lot. And the, you're talking about
Julian's briefings every day that he does. Yeah. Okay.
So that, that time he was able to coach me more personally than, than the rest of the times I was in competitions with them. And I think my best position before that one was like 70 something. And the, so I said, okay, I've been flying for that time. I've been flying for 20 years, 20, 19 years, I don't know, and I've never won a, a world cup and these guys telling me how to win a world cup, I think I'm going to shut up, listen, and do what he do, what he says. So I did, I, I, I did every single day, what he told me to do, he, he was like, you need to do this. This is a strategy. This is how we're going to fly every single day.
I had him in the back of my head, just like reminding me what to do and surprise. I won the world cup that
easy, that easy. So you just had to basically box up how you normally do throw that away. Not,
not, not completely. Okay. But I had a great glider. It's, it's the only glider sitting inside my house that doesn't see any, any humidity or anything. It's right there.
That's the magic glider.
Yeah. I've never going to sell that glider. It's going to stay with me forever. The rest of my life. So I had a, I had a very good glider. I had a very good trim on the glider, completely the opposite of all these new trims. People are doing like super, super aggressive. And the, I spoke to Ross at the time. He was like, no, because of your weight, because of everything you should in the place, you should trim these and these and these like that. And the, so I was, I was feeling that I, I had a huge advantage in the climbing. Hmm. So you trimmed it kind of slow instead. Yeah. I trimmed it. I trimmed it very slow in the middle, very close to zero, then a little bit faster on group two. And then as fast as possible on group three, completely the opposite of what they're doing now that they go very fast in the middle, then slower in group two and as close as possible in group three to avoid the tip collapses.
But because I have natural ballast with me, I can do it the opposite. Yeah.
Yeah. That's why every single time I hear about these equalizers and these, I was like, dude, it's like, stop inventing shit. Just come with me. I'll adopt you for a couple of months and I'll make sure you fly the right size glider.
Okay. Hand up for that one. I want that. Just to eat your food. I don't care how much weight I gain. Perfect. I'm in.
So, so Brazil was that Brazil. And also I think I, the, my, my way of flying. It's very. I, my advantage, I can say is that I, I think I can read the lines quite good.
So, uh, especially it's a place where there's huge convergence, huge, like 20 kilometer line convergence. And he had to be, you have an airspace on top. So you have to be very, very careful of not getting sucked into the airspace because they're at those conversions are atomic. And, uh, so I was able because of the, also the place I live in. I, and it's, it's not that smooth here. It's a little bit turbulent. I was able to, to speed up all the time in the convergence and then yeah, fly fast. And then we had couple of the Brazilians that they had the pressure of being locals that they were leaving always on the bottom.
So the control theory that we've been working a lot with the, with Julian. Uh, we were able to apply it perfectly and there's not that much, for example, in Monroe, you have a lot of, uh, laterality. So your angle of control, it's very difficult than what Andrada sees. And rather as you don't have that much laterality, it's more, you have these convergent things. So the pack gets, uh, compressing to a certain line. So if you have an advantage in the climbing, you have an advantage and then. Yeah. I, I'm fast because I'm fat and, uh, it gives, uh, so that way I could, uh, I could control them very, very easy every single time.
And I think once you go above the same pilots over and over and over and over after the second day, they dream about you know, every time they, yeah. Every time they, they look at you, they, they go. And it's, it's exactly what you want them to do, you know, it's exciting, like, but you have to be calm and done by the hook.
Yeah. Yeah. You have to, you have to keep your brain turned for me in that position. You got to keep your brain turned off. You get, don't get excited. Don't, don't think too much. Just stay on top. Just stay on top. Don't take any risks. And
that's, and that's exactly what we're doing now that we're talking before with, uh, with Julian. No, we, we were able to convince him to start, uh, coaching and spreading the love to, to other people. And, uh, we partner up with him and we've made, we've been making very good progress in this partnership. And, uh, we did, uh, the first clinic in Monarca. I think, uh, it came out pretty good. We had third place overall. We had first team first place. We had first and second in women, first and second in cereal and, uh,
that's it. Yeah. So we still need to win the overall, uh, in the clinic, but, uh, I think it came out pretty nice.
What, what can you say to this audience, which is a big audience, uh, just in terms of the generalities. I mean, I was talking to Matt Beechinor farmer was over here the other night and I was sharing. With him, the experience I had with you guys that day where, uh, it was, it was kind of control theory, but it was, you let Pete go five minutes first. Pete's flying lights out right now. He's flying really fast. He attacks he's he's often, you know, lead gaggle. And so Julian set it up that he would, he would leave. We, you set a course, you set a task and he would leave five minutes before. And then the rest of us would, it would, how long would it take for the rest of us to chase him down? And it was one. Climb. It was, we got him, we got him in the first climb and then, and then you reset it again, where I think you and Manuel and Pete and Violetta, maybe a couple of hours, then more people got to leave early.
And then the rest would chase. And it came out exactly as we, as he predicted. And we all thought would right. When there's one person, you're going to get them. In other words, it doesn't make any sense to go be a rabbit. You're going to get, you're going to get, you know, you're going to get chased down.
Yeah. Well, I think more and more and more, like if, like if we put an example as a, by like racing in bicycles, no, like tour de France, La Vuelta, Giro, all of those, you see how the gaggle, how the peloton stays together. And maybe you have one or two that they run away. They, they, they go, but they're, it's very hard for one of them to win the whole stage. They go more like for very specific wings during, during the race. And most of the times the winner. So that race in the tour and the Giro and all of that comes from the peloton and it's a little sprint at the end. No. So it's more or less that same theory in the, in paragliding, which is have tiny different budgets in research and technology as a cycling world.
Yeah. A little bit.
No. And so it's 10 miles, 20 miles think better than one mind. It's, it's been a long time since, uh, a cowboy has won any big competition in, in, uh, in the world. It's very hard to win a competition by winning every day. No.
So it's faster. You can cover more terrain. You can climb, you can climb better gliders are gliding more or less the same nowadays. You don't have these huge difference in gliders. So in back in the day where you had these gliders, that there was a lot of difference in the glide and the people escaping. And you were on those gliders. Then that is strategy of flying by yourself would be different because every single glide you will be winning advantage. I think now the, for me, the difference it's more in the climbing and how fast you can climb. Then then the rest, because when you're gliding, even if you're by yourself or you're with a group that with a group, you can cover better lines.
You can see how they, how the other gliders are moving. You can adjust. Just your line and, and, and glide better. Uh, it's more like when you're mapping thermals and you're with a group group that you can climb fast that you're 10, 15 pilots and you can climb fast. Then you can chase the pilot in front of you faster that it's climbing only by itself. No. So it also depends a lot in, in the place, all strategies change depending on the, on the area you're flying. No Monroe. It's a very, very, very weird, specific, uh, place to compete that we're not used, many of us, we're not used to, to flying those kinds of conditions.
We're more used to places like via or places like the apps or anything. It's very different errors. No. So the strategy changes the threat. The base of the strategy is the same, but you need to adapt that strategy to different conditions. And that's exactly what we did with the, this one. This first clinic we had, we were, we had the, the chasing the rabbit, not based on, then you had to be the king of the king of the air that you had to out, climb everybody. And you had to be on the start above everybody. No. So you have to climb, climb, climb, and you had to be on top. And as soon as you were on top, you had to leave the thermal and go in the bottom of the thermal and then climb again and be on top again.
So that was another example of what. We did. Another one was that we were not, another game was we were not able to attack the peloton, the gaggle. If you were the one on top, you could only attack the gaggle. If you were the one in the bottom. Okay. So we could train how to control and how to control and how, how this rotation is all the time. No. What I thought was
interesting about that as Stefano was the, was kind of the marrying that. With the Brazilians in their, their distance records, because that's, that's what I learned from Donna's that day. So when we were down in Texas flying together with Cody and we were, we were trying to break the world record. He had this whole thing where if you were at the top of the, you were the top of, and there's only a few of us, it's not a big gaggle. There's only a few of us, but if you were at the top, the bottom person had to lead out that they, they were the person that had to take the risk. It wasn't the top person. It was the bottom person. But in a competition setting, am I wrong? The, the bottom person must lead out, right? If you're in a weaker position, that's how you get back to a stronger position.
But do you do that without being in control of somebody? Isn't Julian's thing? You always have to have somebody under control.
You have to have somebody under control. And this was a game we were playing to understand that control. Okay. So there's a, the thing is that let's say you, you, you make a polar, no, you make a little triangle and you're on top. And then there's another guy in the bottom. This guy would go here, but this guy has all of these angle of control over him. As your control line starts flattening, like for example, this guy start goes out and then it starts going up and up and up. But you're still here climbing, but you're in a very weak thermal. And there is a moment where your line of control is flat. That's when you fuck up.
Yeah. Yeah. You should have moved. You should move. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. So you need to, it's, it's very, very, it's not very complex at the beginning there. He starts talking about all these numbers and things and that, and he's like, shit, what is he talking about? But it's we're flying paragliders, man. We're not fucking sending rockets to the moon. Like.
No, it ain't, it ain't rocket science. Right. So I always tell the people. Yeah. I always tell people if I can do it, man, believe me, you can do it for sure. No.
So.
So what is that was, was your win in Andradas when you look back on that, it sounds like the conditions were the, the wing was great. You had a great wing, great trim, great conditions for you. You know, you. You know how to fly convergence.
But was it because he was in your ear? What was it? Was it really actively flying different or was it a matter of you being able to fly your strengths and not, not play to your weaknesses? Were you able to remove your weaknesses, which, which I would, which I would say it was kind of like Manuel, you, you and Manuel love to go for it. That's been my weakness for 15 fricking years. I can't seem to learn this. You know, I just, I love to put the gas on when I'm in. In a good position. It's very hard for me to back off and be reserved and stay in control. Like I'm in the position I'm going, you know? Um, but I imagine that anyway, what do you think?
I think, I, I think what I, what I did specifically is to put my old me inside a box and leave it in the hotel. And just, I had, I had the skills for flying that doesn't change, but I just, I was like, okay. I, I, I really want to go to the, I want, I want, I really want to do this with this guy. I have the chance to listen to him. I have the chance to get trained by him to get coach and the, so I'm just going to listen and see, see what happens. No. And the, and the, and it worked, it worked. And another example, one of the guys that was in our, in our clinic, this, uh, winter in Monarca, Pablo, Mexican guy.
He went to Columbia to do the Columbia tour competitions. He, he ended up, he like, he, he never finished in a, in a top competition. He never finished in the podium, no? He won the C-Rail class in the British Open. Wow. That's a big one. First competition, first competition after the clinic. Wow. That's awesome. Okay. Okay. So, so it, it like, if, if it's, if you are, how do you say is the, if you obey the rules, if you analyze the rules, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you pilots think that debriefs should be done right after flying no should be done you and you finish the day of the of the competition and you should go straight to a computer and to a map and spend your whole afternoon looking to the map analyzing every single turn no and he explains that that it's a
lot of our sport it's it's feelings and it's a euphoria and it's your your state of mind in the moment so if you analyze your your flights and you analyze your data with that rush of adrenaline inside your head you will not do it correctly okay and and that's for example why i think krieger in the ex-alps and these in the ex-alps and these aron duragotti german italian they kicked everyone's ass all day long because they have cold blood inside their bodies and they can analyze every little thing without feelings no happy emotion exactly emotion kills performance
yeah so so this is something else that was very interesting of working with julian how how after a flight you put that emotion down and you make an objective analyze analysis of the of your of your performance and then you have a briefing with him the next day or he sends a little like work on this work on that work on that no so it's it's also very interesting the pre and the post that's for example when we do the clinics we do four days before the competition then we do all these games no and then during the competition we wake up we go to take off we have a briefing okay we explain the task we do everything we fly and we don't talk we we we go have lunch whatever but then he spends all afternoon and most of the times all night because he needs to to analyze 10 12 tracks and he goes turn by turn he's like it's incredible how he does it and he
the next morning he gives his briefings to like individual briefings or or group briefings depending on what what the situation is and it's great to understand without emotions without the in a very objective way how or where you did good or you fuck up no it's like the same thing happened with us in the in the ex-alps with the with the tangi there was a point where we're going to the last turn point in the south i don't remember that one close to the
maritime alps i don't know yeah and they thank you went to the other valley and he fuck up so we had we had a talk i spoke to him to julianne that that day even if he was coaching the other guys and i spoke to him and was like how how what should i tell these guys and he was like well now you have to they have to understand that they you have to celebrate every single win every like don't look at the other guys and you have to understand that you have to celebrate the cross objective no and that things happen also in cross country competition you have to like every single time you have like in a in a in one task okay i want to be on top of everybody that's my first win so celebrate your first win okay i want to be on gliding i want to be in the middle of the pack on top of everybody controlling everybody that's your second win so you have to be winning you have to be motivating yourself by controlling this and once
start feeling that you can do it that you can control the rest i for example i start laughing in the air i'm like oh you're fucking up oh you're pushing too much oh like oh i am sorry for you because i'm normally the one pushing a lot in front i'm fucking up but
you're you're talking about staying in the present and it's really hard you know when i noticed that when you're just focused on process which i was what i loved about julian and playing that day with you guys were you know executing these games was it's it's not just talk it's it's going out and and performing and seeing the process and action but also you know when i had the good comp at Monarca couple years ago when i won it finally i was so in the moment all the time and i was just i was so stoic that i didn't let anything bother me i didn't i just the whole time it was just i just kept repeating the same thing calm and confident calm and confident calm and confident and i didn't get ahead of myself what what typically happens to me is 20 20k from end of speed i'm in great position i start thinking about i'm gonna win it uh and then that's for sure that's when i start saying you're gonna fuck it up now you yeah why did you why do you think about that you got 21k stay right here do what you've been doing doing the last 40k why do you yeah so that's i liked that about the men the mental side of what julian is that what was helping you and andradas just having that kind of regurgitation every morning you know here's what you're gonna do
here's what like i i told him like he was because first we we spoke about our objectives now what what's your objective in this competition i was like my objective is to qualify to the Superfinal i've never i i did a Superfinal in mexico i got a like and that's it no but i wanted to qualify for the next Superfinal and the i was like okay okay let's work on that so what's what you need to be you need to be top 25 okay so you don't want you you want to finish top 15 top 20 every single day and then you will qualify for the super perfect so you don't rush don't push and as soon as you're progressing and as soon as you're like okay i'm finishing top 10 top 12 top 5
every single day and suddenly like oh shit i'm six oh shit i'm fifth and then there was a point at one of the days that i was like okay i'm in the point where i can win no i had it i had it clear i saw manuel gliding in front he fuck up i saw the other brazilian going front he fuck up and then i had the chance to win and then i was like okay i can still control but i still have my old me inside myself you know i still i still have it to take it out of the box time to take it out of the box and i hold that and i uh and i won i took i took them like for a couple of minutes i think so you need you need to have that balancing in in flying no it's like
what what's what what is the kind of overall best takeaway that you see with your students you see the people that are taking the course like pablo what what what what's the main thing that gets drilled in because i i think you'd be an idiot to have raced for as long as we have and not understand at least the foundations of control theory i mean i've known i've known this for years but actually putting into practice um learn you know playing these war games i it just put it in a different light for me just listening to you i didn't even do the course but i what do you think is the main thing that's hitting home with people uh i think
i don't know just a single mind where it's different and the every everybody i don't know if i understood the the question correctly but like what what does people take off the course yeah
what's the what's the main takeaway in terms of and maybe maybe it's just totally different for every independent person because i mean i think you know early on in your career you need the technical skills to fly with the lead gaggle but eventually it becomes you know according to julian i believe it becomes much more of a mental thing i mean my weakness forever has been lack of discipline i mean ross i mean russ always said that gavin discipline discipline discipline and that's control theory isn't it i mean it's staying in control not going to be the rabbit but it's also but anyway so what what do you think is the main you know if you could do a survey after one of these courses what's the main during these
uh there's a little it's it's a little bit more challenging than it's not the same as training for example if you would be the u.s team everybody's at the same level you can talk the same language no or the french team everybody is like as good as it gets no but when you're when we're doing these clinics we have to cover all the levels of the pilots flying for example we had a little frustration with v one day he's like yeah i know about this but i want to like do it yeah but everything is going to arrive to the point and you're going to it's going to arrive to a certain understanding where you have to one you have to talk to julian specifically each day one on one and that that helps a lot these questions for different pilots the the personal debriefs with him and the because the theory is the same for everybody but then it's how do you adapt that theory to the next level and that's something for example the french
perfectly it's like you go to college and you want to fly paragliders perfect you you're at certain level they send you to the university and you choose paragliding as your sport you don't choose basketball you don't choose football you don't choose anything you choose paragliding and you have just another pilot it's not that bad it's called maxine pino he's quite okay pilot it's more or less you know yeah he's all right yeah he's all right and he's he's coaching the kids he's coaching the young kids and then you have to go to the university and you have to go to the you have in the alps you have another coach that he's also quite okay charles casso you know he's like he he kind of knows a little bit the the sport and then every everything is overseen by julian so
the structure from learning from the moment you start flying competitions to the next level to the next level to it's like baseball minor league second league like major league whatever no they they do the whole process like they like and that's that's that is the reality why they've been winning the world championship for the last i don't know 15 years i don't know when was the last time like someone from another country won in my memory yeah so and and and there is no secret there is no secret to the rule you need to work you need to train and you need to know and these are these are the only guys that they do it professionally in the world yeah so that's why with the with our company we decided with paragliding guys we decided to
with my relationship with julian with our friendship how can we grab that very intelligent brain and how can we spread that love to the to the world no yeah
i mean rising tide raises all ships right and it's
like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's i
mean it'll make everybody better uh you know there's the saying that natalia would like you know a rising tide raises all ships i mean it's going to make everybody better and i i really appreciate this what julian's doing because you know it when you isolate it just to the french team they they will also be pushed by the the swiss and the americans and the mexican everybody getting better and they'll get better you know they'll just create more and push more and and it'll make everybody better you
know manuel and his uh his words no he's he's savior's words and he says that you can be a crocodile in the pond but once you go to the ocean you're a fucking sardine exactly
exactly no so yes yeah i'm the national i'm the u.s national champion i'm the mexican national champion and yeah exactly once so once we once we go out to the real world they kick our asses like always you're
a sardine yeah
so what's the only way to to raise our level it's to train it's to learn from the best and to compete with the best and that's something the u.s team has the the female u.s team has done amazingly i think that's the the best example of performance and the and and the will to raise the level of a team i don't think there's a single team in the world that has raised their level as fast as the u.s women team yeah and that's a that's really an example for the rest of the world because uh yeah they've done an insane job violetta galen jenny alexia all the girls they've been like they've been raising that level like crazy let
me ask you something that's uh you know not off the record but just this is an interesting thing for us to to talk about do you think it could be maintained because you know what's what's happening there with the women's u.s team is really independently driven these are very driven women who have decided that this is what they want and and you know to do it takes an enormous amount of time money dedication you know it's different when you're the french when you can declare this as your major and go to school and this is your sport this is your sport this is your sport this is your sport this is a legitimate undertaking i mean something that i have struggled with a lot over the years is just the why you know why put all this time into it for you know no one is going to remember who wins the Superfinal four years ago no one does i mean even at that even at the highest level there's no money there's no fame there's no real glory there's nothing really any in it except personal value but you know it can can it be maintained can these women maintain this level of dedication for something that's i mean what i'm saying is in france it's legitimate this is a legitimate undertaking in life uh yeah but anywhere else it's a personal hobby really
we're we're the the only the only country in the world that is professional is france yeah the rest of us were amateurs yeah it's a we're weekend warriors really you know exactly and and and and it's it's sad to say but in in a capitalism world like the one we live in the u.s and mexico the only ones that can go that can go out and compete are the ones that have the budget to do it so it's maybe maybe there is a lot of talent in the in in the place but because there is no support you guys in the states have the the free flight foundation that works amazingly and and supports you sports a lot and you don't get us as we do you don't get shit from the government but it would
be great that like i i did an interview with a with a tv channel when when i won the world cup and i was like when was the last time mexico won a world cup in soccer i don't know never and how many millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars it's invested in that sport and they don't win shit and the same thing happens in the u.s and mexico and they don't win shit and the same thing happens to like every other athlete in mexico that it's not soccer no so it's a it's a it's a whole different topic and the same in the states but if we could get this sport recognized by our federations and we can push the same scheme that the french have in europe in france and and adapt it to ourselves
it can work a little example not not in the size of the of what's happening in france but in in mexico we have a in valle we have a school in peñon called este sky rides run by potro our friend potro that runs the hangar and the this guy he's helping all these new kids with his son andres that now he's a new gunshot in mexico and soon he's going to be the new gunshot in the world yeah that you see how he supports all these kids with gear with the knowledge with classes he takes them to take off and the only thing he demands is that you will be you will be a you need to to show me your your your how do you say your school results and you need to show me that you're going to school every day and that way i will be i will be able to show you that you're going to school every day i will give you and i will help you to fly okay so it's a little example and what's the result well andresito is kicking everyone's ass and he came out of that school no wow and the and then you have we have these new kids benja and then you have a new generation they're like 14 year old kids 13 year old kids are coming out of the same school and andres is helping them and they're starting to do go through the same steps as andres
and so it's it's it's working you know and it's working not with a lot of budget it's working with a very small budget but with that with a lot of passion and heart that's awesome so yeah and
that's kind of what they've done in the uk right with the juniors program and they they also create a lot of good pilots you know as it's it starts when you're when you're young and it's not just self funded yeah it's an i mean it's just it's it's an interesting global perspective when you kind of pull back and look on it it's you know that i think what many of us struggle with is it's not really seen as a legitimate undertaking you know like the french have yeah
i think i think what we need to do us as new as not all generations but past generations coming to a point where new generations are coming to take our place that we had it happens in every sport and we have to accept it
now our time is to help these new generations and to see the struggle we had to go through everything we want and to see how we can help these new generations have a smoother path and a more professional path no and and if we have the chance of learning from the best pilots that they're doing it and we can share this knowledge to the new generations that's that's really what we need to do you know it's like we had our time as high like i i'm not saying i'm going to retire i'm not going to let it that easy for this these fucking youngsters you know but i want to i want to help these new generations to see how can we how can we help them go further than we did oh it's like okay i i've been i'm the only i don't know if in the u.s has been a pilot that has won a world cup but i'm not going to retire i'm not going to retire i think i'm the only one in the whole continent that has won a world cup and the so yeah it it took me it took me so long to do it by myself and i didn't win shit and it took me one cup coached by this guy and then i was like oh it's that easy no so now we have pilots that they've been learning also from him they're learning about his strategy they're learning about so okay how can we help this new generation to
transmit that knowledge into this new generation and how can we raise the level of our area by creating this this this new techniques of of flying because competition a lot of pilots are like yeah but i'm a free flyer i don't want i don't care about competition perfect but this is not not only for like if you want if you want to reach source in torrey pines perfect be the highest in the pack of torrey pines and go the furthest you can go on torrey pines and so like it's not having huge goals it's having normal goals but be the best on any any any goal you can have yeah
yeah and that's what i like is really framing it in a way of of training and and yeah because otherwise you're you're you're static you know you're you're only going to get better by luck and you're not getting better by yeah really you know you got to play these games you've got to work together it was it was cool to see and i'm glad that you guys you and nick have decided to blow this up a little bit and congratulate we're doing more yeah great good i appreciate you buddy thanks man uh this was thanks a lot good a lot of good things i'm glad we were finally able to do it i miss you and i miss you need to
do new expeditions yes
please let's do it thanks stefano appreciate it thanks gavin ciao if
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