Welcome to the Cloudbase Mayhem and happy holidays. It is upon us. My, how time flies, right? Finally getting some snow here in the Rockies. It's been an incredibly dry, strange, warm fall. As I understand it's been in a lot of places. We're finally getting a little bit of snow and my mind is on skiing, but this one is all about really cool adventures with a wing and a packraft and a lot of vision. My guest today is Keith Forsyth. He makes his home up in the Pacific Northwest and over the last bunch of years has been putting down some really incredible lines in very, very deep terrain. These are big treed areas with very few places to land out.
Those of you that saw the Rockies Traverse with Will Gadd and I kind of like that, but even denser. So a lot of high mountain lakes, some of the prettiest places on earth, in my opinion. But he, I didn't know this, he's also put together some really amazing lines up in the coast range up in BC and using the packrafts to get out or sometimes just connect to the next place to fly. And also across the Olympics, which I didn't even think it was possible to fly in the Olympics. So some very inspiring stuff. Keith got his start, as you'll hear, in skydiving and then speed flying and base and wingsuiting and has given most of that up to just fly. He's got some really cool lines with a paraglider and bivvy and a whole bunch of whatever he can carry on his back and putting together some really cool adventures.
He's also an instructor and has been helping Henzie out with SIVs the last few summers, also up there in the Northwest. And I think you'll find this pretty inspiring. It certainly was for me. I want to get out there and do more of this. He used to do tons of this baby stuff and life has gotten in the way. But I'm pretty inspired after talking to Keith to doing this. I want to do more. And if you're still looking for something for Christmas, head on over to cloudbaseman.com and go to our shop. Pick up any of the number of things there. We've got some cool Patagonia t-shirts, some new trucker hats, and of course my book, Advanced Paragliding. Or if you support the show in 2026, you can find the link there to go to Patreon, our Patreon page and support.
If you support at $3 or more a show, which is an
option there, and just pack it away. So about a cup of coffee a month. That's all we're asking for. Then we'll send you a t-shirt or a trucker hat, among me. In support of the holidays and support hopefully your favorite show. It really does go a long ways and it helps keep us on the air ad free. Hang on tight. This is a fun ride. Enjoy. And Merry Christmas.
Welcome to the show, man. I appreciate your time. I thought I'd be talking to you up in the Pacific Northwest, but you're down in Salt Lake. What are you doing down there?
I'm down here working for a friend for a little while. Just taking a break from the Northwest and enjoy some skiing down here during the winter. Yeah, thanks for having me on the show.
Yeah, you bet. I've been jealously and enviously following your pursuits up in the Northwest the last few years. Maybe before we get to some of these very cool lines you've been throwing down up in that terrain. Tell everybody, what's your background here? I was just reading up on you this morning. You've been flying about 10 years. How'd you get into all this and how did you get into this kind of niche of flying?
Yeah, so I got going in air sports back in 2011, initially with skydiving. And it's kind of a slow start there, but a few years into that, got pretty excited about it. Started working in skydiving for about five years. And while I was doing that, started doing some speed flying and base jumping as well. And there wasn't until later down the road where I kind of discovered paragliding and just realized it was a unique tool to use in the mountains, more so than speed flying in some circumstances. And once I kind of got my first taste of thermaling, I was all in and been pursuing that for the last seven or eight years. Do you still do a ton of speed flying? No, I actually stopped speed flying about five or six years ago. Why?
Yeah, that's a good question. A lot of that had to do with the amount of margin and just saw a lot of accidents and had a lot of friends close to me have accidents and had a lot of close calls myself. And I just found that to keep it stimulating, the amount of margin that I was consistently like, it just wasn't enough there. So slowly backed off of that and eventually I found it was just a better idea to stop doing it entirely.
Interesting. I heard that. You know, speed flying has been an interesting, I don't know, journey for me. I guess, you know, I really have enjoyed it on skis, but I'm not great at it, I guess is what it comes down to. It's kind of like mountain biking for me. I think I'm better than I am. And I've had some really bad accidents mountain biking. And I finally decided a couple years ago to just quit, just not do it. And I miss it. I really miss the uphill. I miss the exercise part of it. But I was tired of it putting me in the hospital. I've been lucky with flying hasn't put me in the hospital. But with speed flying, it's interesting to hear the margin thing. It's kind of the same reason I enjoyed doing some base, but I could kind of see the writing on the wall.
Is that what it was for you? Is it just, okay, this is going to end poorly?
Yeah. I just saw the trajectory of progression was really reducing the margin like continuously over time. And yeah, just didn't really see it sustainable long term. And you still jump it? I still skydive every now and then, but I stopped base jumping around the same time. Still something I'm thinking about maybe doing again someday. But at the time, it's just there's so many interesting things to do that it's hard to stay consistent in all of it.
Was part of it, I mean, I don't know if that was a transition or it's cold stop. But was part of it just in disguise? Discovering thermal flying and the possibilities? Was part of it just discovering in a sense that, oh, there's more potential here?
Yeah, I'd say that's one aspect of it. Because before speed flying, base jumping, I used to do a lot of skiing and backcountry skiing. And I think just with the air sports, you're able to start exploring a bigger portion of the mountain in a way. And then with thermal flying, you're taking that to the next extent of able to cross an entire range.
Yeah. Yeah. Just the growth of potential, as you mentioned, is quite interesting.
And so take me through a little bit, you know, and feel free to deep dive on this if it's worthy of that. But it's how you really, I think, pretty quickly locked in on these kind of pretty expeditionary-based bivvies. Or did that take a while? Take me through your XC kind of progression in that adventure.
Yeah. So it happened pretty quickly. It happened pretty early on. And I think that's just partially the nature of flying in the northwest where I live.
Most of the things are pretty hard to get to. And with speed flying and hike and fly, I was starting to explore, like, some of the bigger peaks there that sometimes take a couple days to hike. So already through the hike and fly stuff and speed flying, I was already doing the multi-day camping on the way in. And with paragliding, it just felt like a natural transition of continuing that backpacking. So I was getting more into the cross country, just being comfortable in that terrain over time. I think it really helped open it up of being comfortable landing in these backcountry areas where maybe hiking the next day out wasn't that big of a deal. And it kind of, over time, like, helped prevent what I kind of call ground suck or car suck. Well, not what I call it. It's pretty common. But just being comfortable in that terrain, having the supplies with you, I think just kind of alleviates that pressure.
To really end up back at the car at the end of the day.
Are you planning these with kind of anything more than a start?
Yes. Yeah, that's a good question. I definitely piece together a lot. So in the Cascades specifically, there's just not a whole lot for landings. Once you get closer to the crest of the mountains, just with the amount of trees we have, very deep valleys and kind of small towns. Tight creeks coming down from these glaciated volcanoes.
So a lot of that initial puzzle and planning is really trying to open up and find where can you go while still maintaining some margin. And I think a saying that I heard early on that I really liked, actually Jeff Shapiro told me this, was with track climbing, it's like if you can place really good gear, you can try really hard. And then I think that actually, like, transfers into paragliding in a way. Is if you can find your outs, like have ways to fly out of a valley system, have a high alpine meadow, all of a sudden you can start flying and trying these more technical lines that may have a smaller chance of actually making it work. But you have your out, you have that protection in a way.
So that's where I kind of start my planning is just understanding where there's margin and where there's these outs along the way. And then waiting for those days that, like, the weather patterns change. Correlate to make that happen.
These outs that are along the way, are you talking about you're finding these on Google Earth and kind of laying it all down in advance? Or are you talking about reading it on the fly? You know, like Will and I did on the Canadian Traverse. We just started and started going. And there were often times where it just, whoa, we must climb now. And
we must climb now. Right. Yeah, I'd say there's a bit of both. And I think one that you didn't mention is I spent a lot of time hiking out there and actually going and getting feet on the ground in some of these areas to make sure, like, what might look like an out on Google Earth is there's times where I was like, oh, that's certainly going to work. And then just to be safe, I'm going to go look at it. And sure enough, it's like these
timber cuts,
three foot boulders or timber cuts on a on a sandbar or just something is like, oh, wait, there is no way I could land here safely.
The timber cuts. We should describe that. You know, I mean, you're in a part of the world that there's a lot of timber operations. And I hadn't seen that kind of thing, you know, up front. I remember the first day going up to launch with Will. He was he said, you know, hey, everywhere you see that looks like a good landing, I promise you it isn't. It's going to suck if it's a if it's a clear cut. You just cannot go in there. A if you do pull it off and land, you can't get out. So so those listening, it's you can imagine clear. I mean, these are huge dug for stands. I mean, they're massive trees. And then then they go in and clear cut them. And it's just it's nasty. Right. I mean, these are they're terrible. But from the sky, they look pretty good.
You know, you're just surrounded by a sea of trees everywhere. And then there's this whole area that's a nice little square. Looks pretty decent. Then you get down close and it's just awful.
Yeah, it can be quite deceiving. And the other one that's really deceiving. It gets you off guard is like wildland burn areas where it looks like everything's cleared off from a burn. But all of a sudden, like when you do get closer, there's just like very skinny dead trees that like you can't see from certain angles. And all of a sudden there's like, oh, yeah, there's no way I could take a glider in there. Like
power poles with a bunch of sharp edges on them.
Yeah, exactly.
So you would actually go in. You've gone in in advance on foot and just backpacking and checking things out.
Yeah. And a lot of that is from when I was doing more just hike and fly. Yeah. Just spending a lot of time actually like walking all the LZs prior. And then there's times like there's a smaller range in southwest Washington called the Olympics where, yeah, it was interesting trying to fly across that and spent time hiking in from both directions to get a better understanding of what that area actually looked like before kind of going in blind.
Dude, I didn't know you did that. You've flown the Olympics? Mm-hmm. Has anybody else flown the Olympics?
No. I was
going to say I didn't think that was possible. I think
there's still a lot of potential to be had out there. But yeah, it's cool. It's not a big range by any standards, but it is a really stunning area.
And how did it work? Gosh, I would think that that would be so overpowered by the sea breeze, and that's – how did you – did you just go in there and give it a shot, or did you have a pretty good idea from looking at weather? Yeah,
so it's funny. So from Seattle, you can actually look west over to the Olympics and you often see these days with like stunning like great cumulus clouds, high bays. Totally. And then when I first started looking into it closer, I had flown – had done some speed flying on the southern end. So I started there and kind of did some days where I would just work a few moves in, see how the day would work, kind of come back out. And then I did the same thing from the north side. Where I would just start piecing together the first few pieces and then go back out. And then eventually started – yeah, I was able to make the whole transition. But yeah, it was interesting because through those previous trips, little by little, you start to build that kind of mental picture or that model of what those weather patterns are.
And it was really interesting because it is such a small range and surrounded almost by like three sides by water. You get a lot of draw. So like as you go from the south to the north side, those – the lower weather patterns shift dramatically. And just having those previous trips was quite telling and made the whole experience a lot more comfortable and almost fulfilling as a whole instead of just going into it blind and just like sending it. I try to avoid that mentality as much as possible.
And is there a style rule to how you operate? Is there – what am I trying to say? Is there a way you go into these that's – like the Olympics. OK, I'm going to connect this in a certain way. I'm going to start here and end there in a certain way. Are there any kind of – is there any kind of structure?
Yeah. It's interesting to think about. So it's kind of a side note. But what I find interesting about participating in like a few different types of sports, I think each community has a really unique like mindset or approach. And I think they transfer and like you can pull things from sport to sport. So like when you first mentioned like a style in which you go about it, I think climbing is one where there's just – there's this decades-long debate of just like alpine style or climbing style. Yeah. Or like
the life-saving type of thing. But there's
just so much discussion around that. And maybe there's more discussion happening now in paragliding of like how should you go about it? And in base jumping, I think it was something that is kind of lacking initially where it does kind of have a bad reputation and potentially seen as reckless. Yeah. So I think all this to say is like going back to paragliding, just trying to do it in a way that feels like there's – you're maintaining some level of margin and understanding the very thing. at hand um which there's always stuff that like you don't know you don't know and that takes time to learn but trying to gather that as much as possible ahead of time yeah
I don't know if that fully answer answers your question or not, yeah.
No, it does. I, I was just kind of thinking, you know, when you take on an objective like the, like the Olympics... uh, I gotta ask you about launches and stuff. I mean, are you, are you flying with a machete or a chainsaw? Or how are you finding places? I mean, I've spent quite a bit of time; I used to do a lot of paddling out there. It is okay, thick, really thick. Yeah, yeah.
So a lot of those, um, high alpine meadows actually have, like, there will be these high—the high alpine lakes—and a lot of them have kind of small grassy meadows next to them. So it's an interesting style of flying because you're never that high above the terrain, but if you get low, like, the first thought should be like, "Oh, I need to land soon." Um, and it's kind of a funny mentality because, like, all of a sudden, like you mentioned, you probably spent a lot of time down in the bottom of those creeks. Like, yeah, it's—it's dense. Like, there's—there's nowhere to land. So, um, as long as you kind of keep that mentality of like, "Land high, land early," there is options along the way. Yeah.
I was kind of thinking more, you know, so when, when you have an objective, I mean, and you've put together some big lines in the Cascades, you know, up to the Canadian border and stuff, is there, uh, okay, I'm gonna fly a certain percentage of this, or is it just I'm gonna start see how far I can get on this trip? I've got two weeks, kind of thing. I mean, is there a, uh, I haven't, I haven't, I don't feel like I've fulfilled my mission unless I've flown a certain part of it, or all of it, you know? Are you trying to connect the whole thing in the air, or does it just not matter?
Um, it's somewhere in the middle, but I would say it almost leans to like... I'm pretty open to where it ends up. I think what appeals to me most, Cascades, is flying and finding little pockets that I haven't quite seen, um, yet. Instead of like, I've never been one for chasing distances, um, although I think it is, it is fun and it's like a great way to develop skill over time. But like, I'd rather fly 10 kilometers over like a really cool-looking range, then turn the other direction just to get 50 or whatever, right? You're more into the aesthetic. Yeah, yeah. So like, I'll definitely like, if I see a good like cloud street forming one way, or a peak that just looks stunning and I just want to go look at it, I'll deviate for that.
And, um, so yeah, I kind of let the the trip unfold. Um, let's say in the Cascades, I do have an understanding of where I want to go, and that's generally going back to that other point of just there's ways there's kind of ways you have to work around it to maintain some of those landing options along the way. Um, and I think just over the years of doing more and more flying in that area, I start to get a better understanding of like how you can connect some of those um those features, how
Are you, are you a solo kind of guy? Are you doing this with other people? A
bit of both, yeah. Um, I, I definitely enjoy doing it with other people, and if I had to choose, I, I more often than not would. Um, but yeah, it's one of those things, like if it's, if people are busy, I usually don't let that stop me, or try not to. Are
You are, you pretty, are you taking these on just by weather windows, or are you kind of, are you, are you more locked into certain times because of work, or is the kind of thing where, okay, I've got a three-day window because I mean the Cascades are not known for great deals of long windows of good flying, you know, do things change up there real quick as they do here in the Rockies? So, how do you, how do you approach that side of things?
Yeah, I've been pretty fortunate the last few years where I've really shaped my work to allow a lot of flexibility during the summer to, to chase those good weather windows, so
It pops, and you go and just see what comes together. So, yeah, exactly. Are you—you know how many, how many days can you go? And and remind everybody who hasn't been up in the in the northwest West, you know, can you resupply or are you packing and that's, that's it? You've got that amount to, to survive on. Yeah,
that's a good question. Um,
are kind of places you could resupply once you get away from the crest, but generally in the Cascades and the Coast Mountains, you take what you need.
So honestly, even if I'm just going for a day flight, more often than not I'll pack at least an extra day's worth of food, just because it's pretty easy to accidentally land somewhere and have a full day hike out. When I'm doing some of the longer trips, I'll usually pack about seven days worth of food. What
Does that look like, um...
Yeah, so um, once you start getting seven days' worth of food, the pack gets pretty heavy. I mean, you know this, uh, yeah, probably better than any anyone. So, it's really a lot of—it's just freeze-dried food, um, a lot of bars. Not—not the—doesn't necessarily taste the best, but it gets you by. Yeah, um, and yeah, um, say as far as most of the kit goes, I try to keep it pretty light with like a really minimalist bivy kit, um, sometimes bring the stove, um, but yeah, you don't really need much when you're just out hiking and backpacking, so so
tent, or a bivy sack, or what do you—how do you—I mean, you—you get a lot of rain up there, or are you really isolating these to when you know you're—you're pretty good shape in terms of staying dry and you just sleep in your wing? Yeah,
Um, usually do bring a tent. That's a good question. Um, just, yeah, ideally stay in your tent, and then when you're out hiking and backpacking, you can do the better weather windows. But with the unpredictability of weather, and a lot of the best days that you have in the Cascades and Coast Mountains, and I guess mountains in most places are kind of those days that are right on the verge of overdevelopment, so um, yeah, rain is always a potential, so bring the tent. And then what I've been doing for most of the summer trips is, um, I just kind of have a modified concertina bag that I use to kind of consolidate the wing, and then that's the sleeping bag. Um, so that helps a
lot of people with the
cut down on weight quite a bit, oh
So you're, you are just sleeping in your wing, yeah?
but using the tent as well for the rain protection, and I got you, um, yeah
Okay, so sometimes a stove, sometimes not. I imagine there's plenty of stuff you can make a fire with, although I guess it's sometimes pretty wet, yeah.
Um, usually you can do fires, um, or the—I mean, a lot of those, a lot of the flying season here starts to overlap with fire season, where we get a lot of wildland fire. So, you—that's later in the season, sure. Um, but with the freeze-dried food, uh, if—if you're really trying to cut weight and don't bring the stove, you just end up cold soaking it, where it's—it's kind of mushy, but um, gross. Yeah, you're still getting the calories, at least. And yeah, there, it's not my favorite, but there's times when you're like packing extra gear, like climbing or pack rafting gear, and then you're just—you start cutting out every bit of weight that you can, are
you more focused on fat or protein, or you know, I mean a lot of the freeze-dried stuff is, you know, it's pretty tasty, but there's not a lot of calories, you know, um, what do you, what do you bring? It, are you a Nick Neynens kind of guy? You just put five pounds of cheese in your bag and call it good?
Yeah, uh, usually start with a block cheese and salami, that's always a good go-to. Yeah, and throw that in the freeze-dried meals, usually like spruces it up a little bit. And, um, a lot of bars when it starts to get trying to get more like the calorie dense, um, kind of low pack volume. It ends up just being a little bit more, a lot of bars. What
What wing and harness are you flying, yeah?
So I'm flying the the zeolite two and the bivy one, okay?
Any do you? I'm not familiar with that harness. Are you pulling the—is there—is that a foam protector? Do you pull that out and use that for space, or how do you have plenty of space? So...
It has the under-seat storage compartment, and then an inflatable bag that goes around that area. Um, so I generally try to pack all the soft goods, um, like tent. If I have a pack raft, I'll put that underneath there, um, any extra layers, and usually the food—anything that can take an impact in kind of the event of a crash. Uh, ideally like, yeah, you're not having the circumstances, but you're always planning around the worst-case scenario. Um, and yeah, just trying to keep the, uh, all the heavyweight items as low as possible and close to those connection points to, to minimize any impact to the handling of the wing and
What pack raft are you using? I
have the uh cocapelli nirvana and
What's that about five kg, something like that? That
Sounds about right, once you start getting all the bits and pieces and the paddle together and
Okay, so you're always flying with that, or is that something that... okay, this is a—this is a very particular objective. I'm going to try to get to this headwater type thing.
Yeah, that one's definitely more specific. And in the Cascades, I haven't done much of that; most of that is up in the Coast Mountains, um, just with much bigger valley systems, um, and much more friendly, friendly rivers. Because, yeah, it sounds like you've done some paddling in the Northwest, and most of the stuff in Washington is not, not very friendly when it comes to pack rafting, steep
and choked, and so Coast Mountain, you mean up in BC? Yeah,
exactly yeah yeah
So you're doing much of that up there? Oh, wow, cool. Yeah, that's incredible.
Uh, it's kind of embarrassing, and the only time I've ever flown Pemberton was when I was about 10-hour pilot. I did a little sledder there one time and did a really bad ground spiral into the ground, you know, trying to be fancy. No, I mean, I didn't crash or anything, it was just, I was a 10-hour pilot, what do you expect? I was a moron. Uh, but wow, what a beautiful area. So where, where are you, uh, again? We probably have to orient the listener to this zone. Where are you going? Are you using the kind of the standard launch there in Pemberton and then heading which, which way? And how are you coming out? Yeah,
So, um, Pemberton, to give those an idea, is southwest BC, a few hours north of Vancouver, so just north of the U.S. border. Um, so there's a lot of incredible flying and a great flying community in Pemberton itself, and a few launches right in that valley. And then a lot of the flying we're starting to do there is heading west or northwest, um, up along the, um, the coast to, yeah, up through some of those inlets. And it's really interesting because, like, once you get maybe 50, 60 kilometers north, maybe a little bit farther, there's still a lot of unflown and really unique flying to be had.
And as far as like vol biv potential, it's significantly more friendly than the Cascades, some of the, the ranges in, in the United States, why? Is that, um, just for some of the bigger terrain, there's a lot more alpine tundra, um, so a lot, a lot more, a lot friendlier, uh, higher landings. Okay, yeah, above tree line, exactly. Um, some of the river systems are much larger, so there's more significant, uh, sandbars to land on. Um, the only downside, when I say more friendly, it's more friendly from a flying perspective, but it does, it is actually significantly more remote than, than a lot of the stuff in the U.S. Um, you have some old logging roads, um, and some of the inlets are still active logging areas, so there is, there are communities here and there, but there you come across them a lot less frequently.
And how are you figuring out the riverside of things? Is this again just scouting it all out on, on Google Earth and putting it together? Are these, these established kayaking runs? And, you know, there's, there's guidebooks on them and stuff. And, you know, you just got to get to it.
Yeah, a bit of both. Um, so kind of going back to that question you asked earlier of like, how much of it's planned ahead of time, of like, I need to end up at point B, or how much of it is kind of figuring out on the go? Where a lot of the trips in the coast mountains introducing the packraft is really interesting because it, uh, it actually in some ways like increases the margin or in where you can fly, because all of a sudden you have this secondary tool to actually cover a ground and get out of the mountains, um, where otherwise if you try to travel some of that area by foot, you just be spending days bushwhacking. Um, so the, yeah, the the packraft has kind of a multi-purpose tool. Not only is it quite enjoyable, but yeah, allows for transportation.
So when looking and kind of planning what rivers to use, a lot of it is trying to figure out which ones are reasonable to packraft, so generally we're looking for stuff like class three and under, um, and like portaging anything more than that. And, um, so if there's like multiple rivers in a row, we try to gather as much research as we can on each of those. Um, so then, yeah, if we have to use any of them, we kind of have an understanding of what we're getting into and
Are you, are you flying in? Are you putting caches in, or anything? Or, uh, is this still just what you can carry on your back? Yeah,
just what we can carry if
You, how many? How many if you had many multi-day outs?
Um, yeah, so a lot of the trips in the Coast Mountains are about a week long, okay? About usually about six or seven days, so
What, like three days of flying and three days river kind of stuff, or
Yeah, it's, and some of them, the really fun ones, are you're going back and forth where you're able to get like a couple days in the air and then like spending a couple days on the river and then you're, you spot, and then you're flying back in and pack that back out and just like going back and forth between the two as the weather allows, maze.
Balls, are you? You've got a background in rivers, right? You're, uh...
I'm quite new to it still; I've only been pack rafting about three, four years, but
You don't have white water experience. You don't have like hard show experience, though. No.
It's funny, I started pack rafting before I started white water kayaking, and I've been trying to, as I have free time, I've been trying to spend more time in a hard boat just to gain more experience from that side of things, sure.
I, I'm amazed with pack rafts. Uh, I haven't done any, you know, flying with one and using one in that way, which I'm, I'm dying to do. I'm going to have to do that. I'm going to have to do that. I'm, we've got some really cool potential around Idaho, of course, for that. So it's on, it's on the radar for sure. But my, my background really for a long time was, was rivers and done a ton of kayaking. And, uh, when I started doing some of these pack raft trips, they're just insane, uh, boats. They're, they're just insane. They're incredible. I've got a buddy that's, that I do a lot of this with, who's an IFMGA guy, and his background, he's a mountain guy, you know, it has no river background. And we've run really tough stuff, uh, with, you know, he's had, he's got very little experience, you know, so it's kind of fun because he can guide me in the mountains and I can guide him on the rivers.
And, you know, they're just incredible. They're, they're, they're incredibly tough and durable and light, and you can put so much stuff in them, and they're, they're easy to portage. I mean, what a, what a cool tool this is. A really neat thing, I think. That's, it's gonna really open up, while we're seeing it already, and what you're doing, and, uh, what Ty's doing up in the mountains, and what you're doing in the mountains, Alaska, and, uh, it's, God, what it just kind of blows up the possibilities, hasn't it?
Yeah, no, it's just pretty cool what you can do with them, yeah.
And you just don't have to be really that great of a paddler to get down, you know, pretty technical stuff. I mean, they're very forgiving, and they're very easy to get out and get back in, and you know, you can wet enter, and they're, they're, they're pretty amazing craft. Yeah, uh, so what's on your radar after doing, you know, what's, what, what do you get excited about?
Yeah, I think what I'm kind of looking forward to and excited to explore more of is just keep diving back in into the coast mountains. Um, I'd like to do some trips up in Alaska; I've yet to actually be up there. And yeah, I know you spent some time up there, and it just from everyone who's been up there, it just sounds incredible big.
In a good way, really big. Yeah, that's mind-blowingly big. Uh, and you're working with Henzie, you're doing some SIV. You're, you're, are you running the boat or running the, uh, the winch? Yep.
Exactly. Um, yeah, so I've been helping Henzie with clinics the last five or so years, on and off. Uh, mostly driving the boat, yeah, winch operator. Um, yeah, and it's been a really, really interesting experience and been learning a lot from them. Um, it's really been enjoying that are
You getting a lot of time to do a bunch of SIV on your own, as I mean, for you as well? Yeah.
Especially the first few years, uh, I was still quite keen and getting up as much as I could. So yeah, during most clinics, I would, I would be able to get a handful of toes in. Um, what
Do you learn in there? What's that? What's been kind of the... some of the, I don't know, give me three big takeaways from just being on the water, seeing it over and over and over again. What do you... what are the... what... what are the most important things that come out of that kind of training, uh, and being around that kind of training so...
Yeah, when, when I think about the training and like developing hand, like the wing handling skills out there, I think one of the biggest takeaways would be just trying to get your wing into like these unpredictable configurations and just sorting it out from there. Um, and a lot of that is just spending time on the wing that you'd like fly in the mountains. So, and if initially, like especially the first few years, I was just flying taking my old Alpina, once I had like a newer one, so I would just rag out my old one doing a bunch of toes on it. I'm trying to heli it unsuccessfully, but like I think that's just as good a practice of trying to sort it out and get flying again.
Yeah, I'd Say like, yeah, spending time of just in these uncontrolled configurations makes it so you have, I yeah, so actually that's a good question. So I guess the way I would think about that is it just allows more bandwidth to when you where you are cross country flying, um, and starting to to allow you to fly in the mountains and, um, and I think that's a really good thing. Allow more time to to think about other decisions and route planning and getting like coring the thermal, thermal better rather than just handling the wing. And I think I didn't really notice this at the time or through that progression, but I spend less and less of my time like looking at the wing or specifically trying to overhandle it while flying and it just, yeah, spending that time during those SOVs really, really benefited that.
Hmm.
I'm thinking back to these bivvy's again. I'm jumping around here a little bit, but uh, you've done a bunch of these missions. Do you have one that really stands out? And if so, why? And that—that could even be just a flight, but it could also just be an experience you had on the ground, just something that really pops, or maybe something that keeps drawing you back. You know, I want more of that experience. Yeah,
I think the the core thing that I really enjoy about a lot of them, and I'd say to take a specific one, would be it would be two summers ago. Now, one of the trips that my friend Cory and I did in the Coast Mountains, um, where we started just north of Pemberton and went up to Bellacula, um, and it's just the unpredictability of it all, like just experience after experience unfolded of just like not knowing what was going to happen next. Like, at one point after portaging, we were putting into a river and a tree, like a hundred foot tree, fell across the river, and like right as we were about to pull out of an eddy, and it's just like one of the craziest things I've seen. And then we were in another river and it was during the salmon run, so it's just like thousands of thousands of salmon, like swimming up this thing, so every time you stuck your paddle in, it would change colors, and it was just, oh
And you must have eaten well on that trip, too.
Yeah, every once in a while you'd like try to dangle, um, a hook behind the packraft and try to get lucky, but, um, and I think the other part of it is that it's just like, it's just like, it's just part that really stood out to me. A lot of those other trips is when you did start popping into these communities, just the people you'd meet along the way.
and i
think that is starting to become more and more important to me. And a lot of these outdoor sports is not only the internal community, but the external community. And what I'm starting to find is, I, I really appreciate how a lot of these outdoor mountain sports are almost act as like an icebreaker into the community that you're spending that time in. Um, yeah.
I feel like it just, it breaks down that initial barrier. It gives you a starting point, and then, and then you can get to know these people more, um, rather than just like showing up in a place and, and trying to force that react interaction, I guess.
yeah um
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, sticking with that trip up to Bella Coola, um, there's a pretty funny point where we were paddling out this river called that Narco that links into the Bella Coola, and we're like decked out, like helmets on, um, PFDs on, like packs with our extra gear on, and then we hadn't seen anyone in in a couple days, um, and then we turned this corner and all of a sudden there's like these two kids on pool toys and we're just like, "Whoa." Like, we felt like we—we felt like we were doing something pretty cool, and it's like, "Oh, we are out of place." And then all of a sudden, like, the next person we see is like a dad and his daughter on the stand-up paddleboard, and we're not really that remote.
We're
not really that remote, and we're not really that
Yeah, and he, kind of this guy, just like looks at us and he's like, "Where are you guys coming from?" So he kind of just like, "What's with..."
the helmets, geez, yeah
Exactly, and uh, so we just like shoot off like a couple things, but we were doing, he's like, "Wait, wait, wait, pull over, like we got to hear more about this." So then we start just chatting with this guy on the side of the river, and then he mentions, he's like, "Oh yeah, like we have a property down this valley, on like you can camp on our beach." So we like, they show us on a map where it is, and sure enough, like paddle another 30 kilometers or so, um, and then the next day we camp there, and like we're like, "All right, we're gonna go find this guy and walk up to his, like, find his house." And they like make us coffee the next morning, and it's just like those interactions of just like meeting these people, um, we're, yeah, are quite special, and um, I just really enjoy that aspect of it.
Yeah, that part's special. Have you ever had any of these go completely sideways, um?
I don't know if I would say sideways because it's
Yeah, they do. They've—there's definitely been some that have been really unexpected in the way that they've turned out, but never in like a negative, yeah, way, because I think that's part of it is just being open, sure, to how they unfold, yeah.
It's all part of the adventure. It's, I mean, yeah, any close calls, yeah.
Um, not so much with paragliding. I feel like most
flying, I had one in base jumping, um, now
I guess there's like one, a couple in paragliding that that feel like kind of uncomfortably close. Like, I think one that really stands out to me that is kind of a good reminder of, um, planning and not, not getting ahead of yourself, is is actually just chatting with this event, um, to a friend the other day. Is, I was coming out of the Satan wilderness, which is kind of the northeastern section of the Cascades, and I just spent a few days back there climbing and I was like flying back out and, uh, I could see the town of Mazama and I was like looking at my watch. I was like, "Okay, like, it's still early, like the bar is going to be open." Like, I had it all planned out for the bakery on glide, yeah. And then I just started like fumbling with my flight deck and like doing all these random things and, uh, all of a sudden, like, I see the ridge that I need to clear.
I'm like, "Oh, wait, I don't know if I have this." And I had fully deviated my flight path to a way where, like, all of a sudden, that ridge became mandatory and, uh, I just got complacent in the moment and all of a sudden as I get closer and closer, I realized, like, I don't have it by like 50 feet. And like, at one point I was thousands of feet above this ridge, so it's like a 20-minute glide that this happened over and, like, if I wasn't doing all this fumbling, I had so many points where I could have fixed that decision, um, but it waited too long and then all of a sudden I started running
and got lucky that there was a forest road that ran this ridge in parallel, um, with that, was lined with trees, but just had a few areas where you could just sneak it in between trees and put it on the forest road. And it was one of those experiences, it's like, wow, like I didn't plan to have that out there. Like, this was pure dumb luck. Um, so yeah, I'd say that's like definitely a close call that I had in paragliding a few years ago. Um, that's
A good cheap mistake, isn't it?
I, I felt incredibly lucky after that. Yeah, it was just, there's so many like, in it's always hindsight, right? If there's just, like, there's so many red flags, there's so many chances to fix that error, but just let it draw out too long started
Thinking about beer man, that's always dangerous. That's the problem, but I, I get it. That was, uh, at the end of Alaska. That's all I could think about. Oh my god, I can't wait to have a beer, and I landed in what it was close to this little town, and it ended up being dry village. Yes, you couldn't get any beer. Oh my god, 37 days, I can't get a beer, but, uh, yeah. Wow, that's, yeah, that's a good cheap mistake. Uh, last question, I don't believe you don't do much racing. Uh, you said early on that you, uh, and I might have that wrong, but I, I don't think so. Um, and then you said early on that you know numbers aren't really that motivating for you.
Uh, I think many people listening are applauding that, including me, and just, you know, that flying for the ascetic is really the best reason, but often hard. It's hard to stay away from that game. You know, we do have egos. What, what has allowed you to, I don't know, keep it more pure, yeah
It's a great question. Um, yeah, I think the numbers in the stats side are an interesting part of all, and I—I think there's a lot of growth and to be had, like growth and progression to be had through all that. So, I don't think it's bad on its own. Um, but yeah, I think once you start tying a lot of the motivation directly to that, I think that's where a lot of that potential negative negativity can come from. And I—I used to have more of that, I'd say, with some of the other sports. Like, I used to—I used to ski race. I did a lot of, or some, competing when I was wingsuiting with like wingsuit, um, and then, so I used to be a bit more tied to the statistics.
But I think just over time, I—I found that there's other aspects of these sports I find more interesting and more intriguing than—than tying it directly to those motivators of—of hitting certain numbers. Yeah, I—
like that, and I think that's a... it's a good one. We all need to kind of sit on a little bit and ponder more, uh, Keith special lines, man. It's really been awesome and very inspiring, uh, watching what you've been doing. I didn't... I didn't even know about the Olympics one. I got to go back and look at those track logs, that's amazing, and, uh, well done, and appreciate your time, and I can't wait to go out and chase some of the stuff you've been doing. It's been... it's been too long for me. That was... that was my bread and butter for a long time, and it's just been life's gotten more in the way lately, so I'm excited to, uh, pursue some of these flying objectives in a different way. Thanks for sharing your story, man. Yeah,
Thanks, I appreciate it. Yeah, hopefully we can, uh, link up for some lines one of these days. That'd be
Sweet, I'd love it. That'd be great. Cool, man, talk to you soon.
Cool, talk soon if
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