Hi
there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. All right, we're going to be in the throes of the Red Bull X-Alps here for a little bit. Just got off the phone, I guess you'd call it, the podcast recording with Simone Oberhauer. I was surprised to, for some reason, didn't totally remember this, but Simone's first race was in 2017. I thought it was 2019, but he's now done the Red Bull X-Alps five times, and he's spent just about a decade pursuing this, along with a number of other races. He's done the X-Pyr a couple times, or at least, and the Dolomite Superfly, and he teaches paragliding. He's got a business with Tommy Friedrich, another Red Bull X-Alps pilot, and he's never done worse than sixth in all of his five campaigns.
Pretty remarkable. It was third, again, on the podium this year, second time on the podium, and had what he called the best race yet. Of course, the weather was pretty good, but it also had some pretty dicey stuff. You guys all saw the storm at the end of night number one, and the crazy fern on day number two. So we talk about his highs and lows, how he picked such a great team. Those guys all had a blast. He had a really good team this year, and a couple of them have been with him since the beginning. But, I mean, it's good. We get into how we can make the race better from the organization side, and all the turn points and the via ferratas. He's got his viewpoints on that. Why he keeps coming back to it, even though he's certainly checked the box and cracked the code on this race.
And we talk about risk and just life in general. I had a blast. Simone is just universally regarded as one of the kindest people. And sportsman in the race. He's always just such a pleasure to be around. He's always smiling, always happy. He has a really terrific attitude, and you can tell he's just loving it. A lot of fun to be around. So it was great to get his take, as it's all still fresh. It's only been a couple of weeks since the end of the race, and it sounds like he's pretty excited for 2027. Enjoy.
Simone, awesome to have you back on the show. You just reminded me. A little thing with you and Chrigel and the Salewa athletes in 2019. I thought it was 2017. It's easy to lose track of time. But good to see your smiling face after a few weeks. It hasn't been that long, hasn't it? July 24th. So we wrapped up about three weeks ago, and you did it once again in incredible style. I was actually just going through your races since 2017 was your first. You got fifth that year. You haven't been worse than sixth, which is incredible. I mean, it's kind of funny that Aaron had never been better than sixth, and then he won this year. So he really put together a hell of a race, but you've always put together amazing races.
So let's start there. You and I talked about this a little bit, you know, when you got to the raft and we chatted a bit, but your attitude is famous. Everybody talks about what a great attitude you have. What do you chalk up your success to in this, you know, the toughest adventure race on earth? Because you've had a hell of a run.
Definitely. Yeah, I'm quite happy with how it went, especially this year. This was for sure my best race. I never was able to really focus that much on my, let's say, on my career. On my line, on my decisions, on, on, on those things that good. So, yeah, I'm really happy with this year, but yeah, what, what keeps me this attitude is maybe from the beginning, from the start, I never tried to focus that much on, on the positioning, which was very hard in the beginning because I just told myself, yeah, no, it doesn't matter.
And, and, but for sure, the first time you start it accepts you. You get like, you're smashed into this big race and, and the risk management you've thought about in advance is, is like completely, um, gone because you're like, you have to push and you have to go. And, and yeah, that was like the first, the first except it was like the first two days, 2017. I think you, you were there too, huh? Two 17. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It was, we
just walked the first day. The weather was terrible. Yeah.
The, the terrible North fan on the second day and I did some horrible decisions there and I, I even wanted to, to, to quit. So really, yeah, that was very close for me. I really, I really thought about it because, because I, because of the risk. Yeah. I took off in, in way too, too much wind for me at that time. I, I was way above my comfort zone and, and then I. I, yeah, I just kept on walking. I had my girlfriend with me and she said, Hey, let's, let's just walk some meters and, and look tomorrow. And, and the next day, uh, was a very good flying day and I could like focus on myself again because I said, okay, I don't matter about ranking or anything.
I just try to find my, my, my line and my, my spirit. And this kind of worked. And at the end, I was, uh, at the end of the third day, I was third and, and then I, I, I thought, okay, now I know how it works, how it's working. And then next day I was, I was in the middle field again, around 15th again. Okay. Oh, shit. Okay. I don't know. It was up and down and up and down. And in the end it was fifth place and I was super happy and it was just a real big adventure. And I really, it
was the toughest, the 2017 definitely was the toughest for my body because we walked so much. It was.
Yeah. The weather was terrible.
Yeah. And the, the, then we had to, to, to go to, through the flatlands of Turin.
That was so tough. I always thought that's, that's the nicest part to fly there. And yeah. And then we had to walk there. But yeah, I always tried to. Um, enjoy the race kind of,
that's
your secret,
just to do. Yeah. Yeah. But it's hard. It's of course, it's hard to enjoy, but if you think about it, um, you, you're training so much, you're, you're putting so much energy in advance into this, in the organization, in the preparation for this race. So there goes so much in it. And then the race day comes and a lot of people then. Um, let's say, uh, yeah, they, they just see the race and okay, I have to perform. I have to perform and I think, okay, I did so much and now it's time for me to, to show what I can for sure. And I want to show what I can, but I really also have to enjoy this because I worked so much for it.
And, and then for me, this, this works like this approach and, and then I don't look at, at the. The numbers too much and just, and I'm just happy to, to be there because it's not like something you, you, you take for granted to be in a race like it's, it's for me, it's I'm really happy to compete with the best in the world and yeah, so maybe I just try to see the positive things and, and maybe that's my, my secret word, but for sure they're not, not, not just like on the good things for sure. So tell
me more about in this race, when we first started recording there, you said that this was the one where you were really able to fly your lines and that was really special. It, for me, it was kind of the opposite in, in my first was 2015 and because I really didn't have any clue where I belonged in that 32 people. And yeah. You know, getting third in the prologue was this huge boost in confidence that really helped. I think that was the first year they had the prologue. So that really helped me. But I think in a sense, because I had no expectations, I was able to fly how I fly and, and that worked really well. Um, I w I wasn't so worried in my mind about if this didn't work or if I blew this line, it just, I
don't know why that did, that wasn't a factor. And then it became a factor in the, in the future races because in 2015 I did quite well. And then I had expectations and then I had in a sense pressure and that made it worse. And I never really got better with that. Yeah. We do all the training, but I guess what I'm trying to say is my, I never really got back to flying my lines to flying how I fly. It was because it became more follow the leader as they add more weight. Waypoints, but also it became, God, if I go 15 K off course line here and follow the obvious sky, which you do as a pilot is a good pilot, but I would start thinking, what if I fuck this up?
What if I screw this up? It's going to be that much more walking. It was really hard to get more in flow. I felt like I was more in flow the first time than I ever was. I mean, I had moments, but you seem to. Stay more in flow. Yeah. I'd be curious to hear how, why this year was, why was it so special?
Why, why was it so special? Because everything worked so well for me. You know, sometimes the things, the things just, you, you take decisions and they work and then you, you get into a flow. But I definitely also had a great team this year. This was, they, they worked really well. They had a good spirit, they were motivated and that's, that's something that pushes you a lot. If you, if you have good friends with you and that's friends, that's really good friends. Simon is, is there since 2017, since my first race. And Moritz, my main supporter, is there since 2019.
They, he's, he's always had a role in, in, in my life. And so they, they know how it's, how the race is and they know if they are worried about things or like,
let's say if they're a little frustrated because I'm maybe 30 kilometers now behind the leaders and, and things like that, they don't let me, let me feel it. That's, that's something very important because for me, this time when I, there was some, some time. Sometimes I was, I was behind a bit, like 30, 40 kilometers, but I never saw it as a problem for me. So it, it was never, oh shit, I have to, I have to, I have to catch them, I have to catch them or something. I just saw, okay, what possibilities do I have? How, how looks my fastest line to get there?
Somehow I, I could concentrate on, on, on, on my, really on, on my flying, like I would fly at home. Like I would go cross country flying at home, completely free and intuitive. This just worked out.
One time I did a big mistake because I, I was feeling like very free and thought, ah, this is a, this is a good line and it's, it's a little detour, but it could work very fine. And then in the end it worked, it was a shit line, it was, but this, this things happened, they happen often. But, but that's, except they never, everything is working. This is, this is, um, for sure, but yeah, it was definitely the team. This was very good team and, and they had, they did everything right. But we, we, we didn't, we haven't been that much luck with, with,
let's say the, um, the health of my team because in the first night, um, there was. There were like four or five teams at Platzwiese in the Dolomites parking and my, yeah, let's say it like this. I, I heard in the night, two o 'clock in the night, 3am around, and I heard a door from a van opening and closing. And then I heard somebody throwing up for at least half an hour, like really hard. Oh, it was, it was. And I thought, ah, that poor, ah, that poor guy and, and then I thought, wait, was
the door at my van? And I, I opened the, the, the latch and like looked down because I'm sleeping in the roof tent and looked down and, and saw there's only one person laying and, and, and it was my main supporter Moritz and he looked me up and said, shit. And I said, oh shit.
It's Mogli, my physiotherapist and, and he had, he must have eaten also something not that good. And he was partying two days before the race a little bit and he was just, yeah. And then we had, we were like, oh shit, will it, will I get it also? Because in, in, you, you cannot, um, like guarantee somebody in this race. Yeah. And he was really not feeling good, but he knew I needed him because, um, he's like really good physiotherapist and he's so, we need him in the team because he's just, yeah, um, spreading good vibes all the time.
And yeah, after, after three days he was back on his foot and he was able to, to, to, um, support me again. Like really on the mountains and doing everything. Yeah. So yeah. Well, I'm super thankful for them briefly,
uh, I mean, not to be that brief, but how many people on your team and what are the roles and how did you choose your team this time? Obviously you've had, you know, the two, the two you just said have been with you mostly since the beginning, but talk about that a bit, because I imagine a lot of people listening, this is a dream, right? Maybe, maybe someday I'll be able to compete in the Red Bull X-Alps. And I think it's important. The team is obviously so critical, uh, you know, kind of the unsung heroes and you had a really good experience. How did you, how did you put it together? What does everybody do and, uh, and what are the roles?
Okay. Yeah. Um, so let's start with the main supporter. That's Moritz Kampermüller and he's a very good friend of mine. I, I met him before, just before I started flying. So we. So we, we have a very good friendship going on and we did a lot of adventures together. So he knows me in extreme situations. When did you start flying? So that's like very, okay, 2012, 2012 and he didn't start flying. Um, but I think it was 2017 or 2018 around when I was the first X-Alps and then he realized, this
flying looks really nice, what I'm doing. And, and then he had a little injury at his finger. And then he said, I cannot climb at the moment because he was climbing a lot. Can you teach me how to fly? And I said, okay, let's go. And I sent him to the flying school, which I own now. And then he started the basic course and then I took him, let's say under my wing and, and, yeah. Then I teach him a lot and then he started to enjoy it really a lot. And then he put a lot of effort in it. So he, he knows how to fly. He really knows how to fly big triangles and, and he's very fit and yeah, he knows how the game, how the game, um, is going at X-Alps.
Yeah. How it works. So there's Moritz and then there's, um, my physiotherapist. So this is. This is Mowgli, who was sick. Um, I met him, yeah, also, I think he was in 2021 was the first time in 2021 that he was with me and it, it was over a friend, um, and he was like looking, I think for, I was looking for a physiotherapist and then we got in touch and we met and there was like really good chemistry. He was such a nice guy. Yeah. And I thought, ah, cool, this could work really well. And then at the race he was full on fire and always there and yeah.
What is your physiotherapist doing? Are you getting massages and stuff at night or what, what, what are they, what are they taking care of?
Um, he, he's gotten not the approach with massages. It's not his thing. Sometimes I wish I got a massage, but he's more like, um, he's, he's spending me a lot. Yeah. And, and, um, pushing trigger points at the muscles and he, now he really knows my, my body and my, my problems. Sometimes I get some knee problem and when I get this knee problem, I just look at him and say, I feel my knee and he, ah shit, okay. But um, after 10 minutes it's gone and most of the time it's gone for the whole race. So this, um, I, I just can trust him 100%. Yeah. And that's worth so much because he really knows what to do to, to keep me fit.
Let's say it like this. Yeah. So there's okay. And yeah, we, we have a very good friendship also. So this is, um, yeah, very important part. And then there was the, the second car and there was Simon, um, who supported me, um, 2019, 2021. Um, 2023, um, as main supporter, but, um, this year he said, I, I don't want to be the main supporter. I want to, because I have some other things going on and yeah, I want to step back a little bit and say, Hey, no, no problem. Um, but I want to support you like not main, but I want to come with you.
And that was, that's very, that was very nice from him because he knows also how the race is going. And so I have two cars with two, um, people who really knows what's happening in the race. So this is, this is super important. And then there was Dario who has a very small one man production firm with video and, and he did document the whole race. And he did a really great job. And. It's the first time I had somebody really for media and for, for documenting it. And this worked super nice. And I met him at some smaller races in our area, the, the border races in Austria, maybe, maybe you know them.
It's like, I can fly conditions, 33 hours. And he did there some videos and I was talking to him some, some times and, and then I thought, it would be very nice. If I had. Somebody for excerpts. And then I just asked him and he was like, oh yeah, man, sounds nice. And then it went on and we took more and he said, yeah, cool. I think I could imagine coming with you. And then he just came and he fitted perfectly into the team.
Who's doing your weather. Have you got a, are you outsourcing weather to somebody else back home and feeding it to you? Or is it somebody on the team that's mobile with you?
Yeah. It's who is doing most of the weather. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's quite nice. And, and there was one, one other person that was Stefan who is who learned flying, flying and like two years ago from in our school with us. And he's kind of an adventurer, full adventure guy. He's very often in Africa and with his, with his small bladder, maybe, you know, bladder, the, the, the, the small, um, four times four, um, vehicles, he's driven it from Graz, Austria to, um, I guess now it's, it's not the whole of Africa, but he's still, um, like expeditioning with this small thing and preparing it on the go.
And, and so we had somebody who is very also in, with a worry, um, with a lot of experience in adventure. So this was very nice. And yeah, he also did fit in the team. Just perfect. And so, yeah. So five,
five supporters, two cars, two vehicles.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. One with roof tent and one, one summer mobile, which is like, um, yeah, California, but made by other firm. And yeah, this worked really cool. So one, one was a Toyota. He loves it. Yeah. This, this work like one time we really had to, he looks set to work up the hill. Yeah.
Yeah. So what is your, I'd be curious to hear about your training? Um, I mean, again, briefly, but, uh, you know, when does it kind of officially start if it ever does, or are you just always training and then how have you changed things from in 2017 was your first you'd been flying for five years, I guess. Right. You have five, six years. Uh, you know, it's almost a decade now you've been competing, you know, so how old were you when you started? and yeah how has that shifted how what does your training look like i
think it the training evolved just just naturally um in the beginning it's it's hard to train for a race which you haven't been racing before so i just thought okay i do a lot of adventure um flying like bivouac tours and just being outside and trying to experience different weather conditions so that was my approach and the border races which are like 33 hours competitions with a lot of hiking most of the time sometimes more than 150 kilometers and so your body learns to to deal with long days on the streets that's something really important for because it's not always like this year and the two years before was also very good but that's not for sure that's not granted to fly a lot like this so your body needs to to be able to handle a day of walking that's just you really need to be able to do this and so that's what i knew and i also knew from 2015 when i was with with paul um i was supporting him um
like it was i think maybe maybe a month before the race or even closer to the race he he asked yes simon do you think you would you would like to join me it's like oh wow yeah sure let's do it and then suddenly i was joining paul for the xs um and there i experienced what xls is like wow and i saw that the flying is the the biggest part and that's where where the where the group divides if you're able to stay in the air and use it whole day so i knew i have to train just flying and keeping in the like keep flying even when when the conditions get like slow and you
think you're not doing a lot of progress you just need patience and patience patience patience sometimes to keep flying to top land to wait to put out the tempo to the speed to go slow and give the weather the chance or the thermal and that's something i i learned a lot and tried to train a lot to to keep patient and okay there will be there will be a window there will be a possibility that's just something i um i always have in my flying from yeah this was it was always a little bit of my my style to to be patient to keep flying to yeah just spend a lot of time in the air and that's what worked during xops all the time do you have a
trainer or do you have somebody you're kind of accountable to in training? for the okay no
you just do it on your own no no i just do it on my own yes yeah yeah what
would be you you you supported paul in 2015 imagine being a supporters i've never been a supporter so but i when i watch it now as i have the last two you know the last two editions and seen it kind of from the other side i wish i had it seems like you really learn a lot uh but for those listening who are you know maybe they've done like the board air other smaller hike and fly races uh but they've got their eyes set on x-ops what are what are say three things that you think are really important to understand about the race or to prepare what are the what are the kind of key things because like i said you you unlocked it right from the beginning you you seem to have unlocked the red bull x-ops code in a sense
you
yeah um okay so what are the the three most important things like for the athlete or for sure the the most important thing is is is is you as an athlete have to know
your strengths your strengths let's say it like this you're where where are you good and if it's flying then it's maybe this is the the the crucial crucial thing about about x-ops you just really need to be good at flying um so the flying training is the most important part this is where most of the energy should go don't try to plan everything in advance because you can't um train for the unexpected or train the adventure a little bit like this i hope it's understandable but
you you you cannot plan the whole race in advance it won't work and there will be there will be situations where you don't which you have never experienced before and then you need to listen to your feeling because you know how to fly otherwise you wouldn't be there you wouldn't be at the x-ops and then you have to to trust your body to do your thing and then you have to trust your body to do your thing senses or you have to be able to see what the other people in front, if you're not in front did and you have to understand it. So you have to also to understand other lines. So you have to be able to watch other people flying and take the advantage out of that.
That's important in a race. It's always. You always have to also watch your opponent a little bit. Not all the time. You're not allowed to be just focused on them because then you lose the focus on yourself and then you're not in a good place.
So focus on your flying and try to yeah then the second maybe try not to plan everything at once. Plan the turn points because that's where you have to be on the ground and where you have to get airborne again. Or have to move on. What's the third? Find a good team that supports you because they want to support you and not because they want to. It's very important to have the team that really let's say likes you and wants to support your mission.
And wants to support your mission on this X-Ups. And maybe the fourth thing would be don't have big expectations because they are putting you on the ground. That's very important. On my first X-Ups my main supporter that was Christoph. I started flying with him together and we always like to talk about everything and philosophy. All things and everything. And this one evening the whole team was together and it was a big team in 2017. And sitting there, Domi was there. I think he was 16 or something like this. And then
Christoph said, okay now I want everybody to make a guessing how much chance
Simon has to win the X-Ups. To beat Greedy.
How much chance do you think Simon has? And everybody should have read a number on a paper. Yeah. And then okay. Let's start. And then it was like 70 % and Domi said yeah. 90 % chance that he is beating Greedy. I was like yeah. Maybe 50. I was like I was like. Maybe this could happen but I was totally stupid number. And then he said okay now I tell you what I've written on the paper.
And he was like 2.5%.
He was like no chance. And that was completely right. That was completely right. Because Greedy really knows what he's doing there. And he was so good prepared compared to me for this race. You
don't know what you were preparing for yet. I mean the first time it's just there's a lot. Yeah.
Yeah. That's just there's so much to learn and to see.
I was like okay in the beginning and then I started thinking about it. And I said yeah. I think he's kind of right.
Because Greedy knows to I wasn't I was far away from from being able to to be faster than Greedy. Yeah. Definitely. And that was that was kind of a nice thing that happened. He always is like he likes those those shocking approaches. Yeah that's great. I like that. Let's talk
about Greedy because this was this was a big one wasn't it? You know eight eight time champion. You and Lars and Aaron got him in the end. It was kind of you know I took off with you guys that morning heading to Laramouse. It was still anybody's race at that point. Pretty thrilling end. He's always kind of crushed those eight you know in a sense. It hasn't really been close.
He was the oldest in this race which was interesting. You know that I mean he's only 42. That's not old for an endurance racer but it's you know so anyway first non-Swiss you know there's there's a lot of there's a lot we could talk about here but there's a lot of incredible storylines but it was interesting because I mean right from my first one in 2015 that's always the talk you know in the week before the race. This is the year that Kriegel's going to get beat. This is the year and I've always got yeah no no way. No I mean and especially I think you know last year with his big X-Peaks expedition I just thought God he's still you know that's a realm now that another realm that he is going to dominate in.
I mean he he and Peter they are his partner Peter they've learned so much I would imagine you know just operating up high and above cloud base often and just in a lot of horrendous weather and so this caught me by surprise. I I I certainly was you know was not one of the ones who was thinking this was the year he was going to get unseated and there's a there's a couple things I talked about with Tom just a couple days ago we were recording a podcast with Tom de Dorlodot and we both kind of agreed that there was a couple big factors the gear probably didn't help you know that he wasn't on a sub and you know so maybe a little bit overconfidence there but that led him to you know to choose that gear because he had done he got third in the World Cup
exactly well May a year ago in his hometown at the Grindelwald World Cup which I was at and he you know he flew on the impress and everybody else was on a sub but he got third and so I think that was probably oh I can just out think this or I don't know I haven't gotten a chance to talk to Chrigel I don't know if you have but I'd love to get then the other thing was just the weather was pretty good this time and it does really seem like Chrigel makes his big move he he he really shines when the weather is terrible and we didn't really have much bad weather you know other than that day two but there wasn't a lot of separation that day so we'll talk about day two here in a bit and I want to talk to you about the storm night one because you chose a different different way down that night so we'll talk about that but I'd love to just get your thoughts I think everybody would
what happened
this year? what happened this year? yeah I think Chrigel did did a lot of moves to to like get away to to push away it's like maybe like the Tour de France at the moment where one tries to sprint away and tries to break away from the crew and but the bellaton the bellaton really worked great yeah we always catched him so we had him again and maybe there was also some luck missing and sometimes he pushed too hard and maybe too fast and then we catched him easily and sometimes he really had problems and I think comparing in in thermals he was he was not climbing that well that was I guess a big a big factor I really have to say that you could you could feel it because Chrigel is an excellent
excellent thermal fly when you when you fly with him he's he's he really knows how to and how to do it good and he most of the time also comes out top and this time was different maybe I also gained a lot of experience but you could see okay he's struggling to to get away and and we had no problem like leading and so he had to follow again which is
not his thing you know he doesn't like that he
likes to be out in front yeah with yes yeah yeah normally he's he's like if he's in the back then he sometimes there were XO's races where he just he was like two hours on a thermal day behind and then he boom started the turbo and was in front again so that that also happened but this time he just couldn't break away so that was the one part and for sure we had good flying weather so there was not this okay but I think this extreme extreme weather situation where we couldn't fly efficient because he knows how to fly efficient with a lot of wind and maybe
we all learned to do that more to to to use to use strong conditions like or heavy conditions like thin winds to I think we all gained a lot of experience during X-Alps races and now we know how it works a little bit and where you can fly and where you should not fly and what to expect because it's always hard when you don't know what to expect for certain conditions and then you cannot fly because it's if you don't know what's coming or what is the possibility of when I fly there then you cannot fly efficient and maybe that yeah
maybe he didn't have the the chance to break away to do to get into his and like lone reader leader role because that's what he's used to so much and yeah but he was chill he was really chill like he enjoyed the race I
had a very special you know kind of personal moment that your last day when I was up with you guys you know and launched with you you know heading to Lermous it was very instructional for me the last two these both these last two have been very instructional for me because it's a different it's so different that I can observe and and in a sense pick apart learn
how you guys do it and compare it to what I had done in my races and I already said you know one of the things that really started working against me was this whole fear of blowing it and not flying my lines but it was really cool to see how chill you guys were up there that day you know I don't remember many moments like that for me in the race you know just so relaxed and so chill and just making jokes and you weren't you know Lars launched and he was making it work and no one was really in a hurry you know Lars was what 10k behind you guys and launched just before you that day same same air mass and same place and stuff but
you know for me it was always and maybe this was because I was never out in front but it was always more racing you know more I gotta go I gotta move I gotta go and it was really cool to see how just relaxed you guys were I mean Chrigel even commented on it you and I were laughing when I was filming and I said what do you see about today I see a lake I see a ski area that was so funny but is that you
know was that moment did that capture a lot of how you are in the race or was that unique it
depends on the day if it's a really good flying day you know that the decisions that are important will be made in the air and if you go too early and you fuck it up then you just have to run up again and we already did the glide down we did our work let's say it like this in the morning we did a very efficient glide down we got ourselves in a good position and it was it was also really good to compare with the Tour de France
if you if you go if you break out of that pack in the beginning now because it still was a long race then it's more likely that you do a mistake and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and
so everybody was like cool and chill and checking each other out a little bit and we knew okay we we have to go to Leamos and this will like to go there we don't normally on a good day like this everybody knows how to fly there and there won't be a big gap and it will we'll all get together on Leamos again and then we will go up and then the real race will start so that's was kind of the situation and well let's say how I experienced it because I knew we we it's just an incredible day and it's a perfect line to Leamos and perfect south-east and yeah if if we cannot fly east then
okay then we have another problem but this worked so well and the valley wind was not on and yeah it was perfect it was like like we say in Austria a hammer day yeah perfect but in Leamos the racing started there we it started slow up the hill and slowly we we started to push more and push more and push more and and then I suddenly became nose bleeding from the morning because in the morning I was I had something in my nose and tried to pull it out and accidentally cut it with my nail and so I had nose bleeding in the morning and but then it went away and on when we walked up and
then we got really fast suddenly my nose started to bleed very very intense
I didn't have anything to put inside my nose or anything I looked at my support at Moritz and said fuck my nose is bleeding he was like oh fuck and I took and he took his cap a running cap like this and he was like I don't know I only have this and it was completely wet from his sweat it was completely wet and I was like pushing it on my nose gave him one walking stick and pushing up and I said okay now I'm not losing them now and kept on pushing and on the take off last gave me some toilet paper I put into my nose and it yeah it worked but but there we we took off like two
minutes or something like this it was like okay laying laying out but still in a controlled and not hectic way because when you learn one thing at X-Ups it's if you like go racing racing this most of the time leads to maybe one small mistake where you where you forget to put your barrier or to if you have one little mistake that can cost you so much more so you you always have to stay like a little calm at the take off okay do I have everything okay I can go so that's a very important thing and that's so the take off should always be calm because you go flying you go flying and you just need to have everything so that's always for me at least and it was also for everybody who was at the take off there like Aaron Das Chrigel okay Jill and then we shook our hands and said okay let's go good luck and yeah and then we knew it's on yeah and such
a I mean truly a photo finish I mean watching you and Lars come in with about 10 seconds to one another was just you saw how excited I was on the top that was just unbelievable yeah Simon you had a different take so night one we had that huge storm up on at the at the Sexton turn point and you know we're all huddled underneath that roof and it was just dumping hail and nasty and then a brief break no hesitation for Chrigel and you guys all start hiking out there and so we're all basically running out in the hail and you know a handful those guys took off and they did not make it look good it was I mean we had video of that and they ended up getting a penalty um but you didn't you you know Maxime had already walked down and and you you you I saw you you looked and just kept going you just walked walked down I'd love to hear
two things that decision uh why but also there was a lot of chatter this year on the social media and I don't know how much you were aware of that but you know David Sessodelli had that pretty wild launch that went totally viral day two and there was a lot of couch chatter you know that this it's gotten too risky it's gladiators versus adventure um I have a very specific take on this I I don't agree with any of that but um but I I would love to get your thoughts I mean to me it's been that since 2003 it's always been that um we just we're just doing a much better job of showing everything now not just us on the organization side but everybody you know you have your own media person a lot of the teams do
anyway I've asked a lot there but I'd love to get your thoughts on this
yeah
um so the first day with with the thunderstorm um there I was seeing everybody taking off and it looked it looked awful yes because the wind was not out of the of a good direction the terrain was was shit for taking off I mean even Creel ran like that was you made it look bad it looked like he wouldn't he would never take off it was like fuck what what is this and and everywhere the hail there was the hailstone before and and it was all white it was it was yeah it was just shit and I thought no first day except my legs are fresh I I walked down and then I started walking down and then it also was very slippery it was really slippery to walk down in this in this hail and and walk down walk down and then I checked the conditions again and I was like okay shit perfect wind there it got clearer there was no sign of rain at that moment at all and I was like I looked at my supporter and said this looks good this looks good am I missing something and and I was like it was shit you're right it now it looks better and then I took off like 200
meters 200 meters of elevation down and then it was perfect for flying for me in the end there was a little bit of rain when I landed oh I didn't know I didn't know you took off I thought you walked all the way down
okay so you just you just walked down a little bit and then took off interesting okay yeah
because then for me then down there it it just looked looked way better and it worked super nice I I just took off and and on the way down I um to when I float flew down I just looked in the valley where I should have been walking or I could have been walking and where my supporters then walked and there was like it it was all a big river it it looked like it also looked not nice to walk there and and so I was I was really happy to to took the decision to to fly but of course there it was not next to us it was a couple of kilometers away when when I landed I also heard like
far away a thunder and things like this and so yeah I also maybe could have walked down but in that moment I I saw it safe and it was for me I didn't felt it at the top where the others took off so for myself I just took the decision that this is not cool for me so I walked down and then I saw okay now the conditions changed a little bit and now I feel safe and then I took the decision so in the end it's you have to live with your decisions that's that's the very important thing and for Creedle it looked good and he yeah he also did a good flight down there he even landed high and then he he even I think top landed somehow some some meters of elevation and then this was his first move to get away from us um not a lot of people recognize this but at Platzwiese he went up to like he tried to
fly down the pass which is which would have been a very good move if he could have done it but he he took off and he didn't he couldn't cross the tree line and he had to land in again and then he had to land in the completely wet grass in high grass I think and then he just took his glider and went straight into the hotel really? oh
I didn't know that either
and man booked a room there yeah
like ah fuck it I take I take a room that's funny oh I didn't know that oh it just it looks like this yeah yeah and of course then there was this day two of the of the X-Ups which I think everybody who knows how to read weather and how to need how to read pressure difference diagrams knew that this wouldn't be an easy day this will be will be tough and this will be nothing like ok let's go XC flying and easy I knew that that the dolomites won't be that affected of the fern but we in the beginning we still had north wind but I flew a lot of times there with north wind and with this kind of conditions and they worked really well so this was was good flying it was it was not easy flying but it was it was possible and then there was the the crossing to
to Meran and there we had to land to top land at the Meran 2000 and when I was approaching I also called my supporters to have some some wind data there and it was like yeah there there are gusts up there but they're not sure if the weather station is correct because
it seems like a lot of wind there so be careful and then we were in a big in a big group who who came there and then at first I think I saw Tim Malongi landing and he was like top landing there and and in kind of the lee side of the lee it was it was like double lee and he was landing that looked good and then he put down his glider and the wind was like you could see how he had to to handle his glider on the ground to not blow him away and I was like oh fuck shit okay there's a lot of wind so
I kept on looking at the others how the the wings will behave and so really like thinking okay there's the there's this one spot where the the nearest to the to the hiking trail to the Via Ferrata and it's okay for sure he's going for this so Tommy also going for this and really had like the perfect timing there was very low wind because it's very near big gusts and when I was coming in there was big gusts and I was like oh shit and really this was a really like intense moment and you you have to be in that moment and you know that those
gusts can come and I was prepared for it and I could handle the situation and also so could Tommy and we landed back and okay let's go and I was how will it be at the top yeah because we have to climb the Via Ferrata go down a bit and take off again and there it was a lot of wind but more linear so it was not that gusty so this was this was cool then in Schenna down there you're like in a complete um wind situation so there's there was there was really a lot of wind but if you know how to handle those situations you have to be very patient to get this to get the right timing you're not allowed to like okay spiral down on the way and just land so I just spiraled half the way and then I waited and then
I saw okay now it's a little less and then I saw and then I tried to lose more height and just landed and it was easy for me there but of course if you get like suddenly a gust you have to handle it again and it's it's kind of a tricky situation there and then we knew there's this this this hill where the fern hits from the valley and you you will get uplift immediately and for me this was the the this was like okay we can do this because the north wind will go up the Finchgau and there will also be the wind from from Reschensee coming down and normally this area then is is like a little neutralized and it it was like this in the beginning we we were even then struggling to get to to base to really get high but then I somehow managed because because I took a lot of patience in the first thermal and Chrigel didn't and Damien and and Christian Schuck also didn't they just kept on racing and then they had the top nine and I was like wow nice it's working so well and I still have this ridge and in the higher higher layers we have north wind and I was calling my supporters and I was like hey this could work this could work and then I had this one crossing and I was aware that in the valley will be a lot of wind but I
was at 3000 and thought okay I can I can go around that that mountain and I will soar up again but then I it was like you're hitting like you know Mario Kart the there are those accelerating stripes and there are these breaking stripes and it's like okay whoa
you you cannot push against that that wind and it was clear but you had to like push to at least keep your position for for landing and then it was at 3000 I knew that that I had to to look for a landing in the valley which is like three or four hundred meters above the sea like at three or four hundred meters the landing is that was at 3000 meters so 2500 meters of of just going of going really and and of going down and and you knew it when you hit the wall you knew that you wouldn't go any further that day with flying that was clear so I I
was just I was in the zone I was I was flying and I knew what was coming I knew what I had to do and I knew it will be turbulent it will be rough it will be not easy and so I constantly was checking like landing gusts trees everything it was for me it it felt as much under control as it can get in this situation so I had my wing I knew it it will be tough to keep it open but it worked so and then there's this video I think from from Paul who did like a video from where I was like going down the the valley to my landing place and this was really the most
turbulent part for sure he he scared me during this and so when when I saw it on the video how it was looking it didn't felt like this for me that's funny because for me it felt very under control and it was I could land it and I could catch every collapse and reopening it and so that was that was manageable for me it was on the edge definitely and but I I also I don't really train you can't really train those situations but you can you can train flying in in in high in in wind situations and through
my experience or through the years you you will it will happen to for you to to land in heavy valley winds and in this situation so and that and this and so for me this didn't felt like a completely new situation so I knew what what was coming and I knew that I was able to to deal with it the the problem is if you're under the wing and and you think oh fuck what is this I'm I'm stressed and then it's getting really dangerous because then most of the time you're not you're not like you're not seeing anything but fear and and then it's dangerous and when you look at that video
you you you see what would happen if I was in this situation like and and oh shit and shit and shit I would never do that oh fuck fuck and I can I can see both sides yeah I can see both sides that people are like oh fuck what are they doing and but they cannot look inside me and they don't know what I put into the preparation into the race and that I'm like yeah doing a lot of like and really a lot of stuff to to handle those situations and of course you're not allowed to do this like all the time and and keep pushing and that's not what I what I want to do and and I didn't I wasn't expecting like a wall of wind like this and nobody was expecting and and the funny thing is everybody knew knew that I was got pushed down and Creedy was thinking yeah I just thought you did a little mistake in approaching the mountain
and I was like yeah I think that wasn't the right approach to this mountain that's just boom and he was like yeah that was boom and yeah so we had to land there I mean I
don't know about you I have more opinions about this but it's to me
I don't think the race is getting more dangerous it's just it's paragliding it's dangerous it's always going to be dangerous competition makes people do dumb things you know you have decisions like you did at the end of night one you know okay is this worth it but that's up to you it's not up to anybody else to decide that and then without those moments you know without the wall of wind and the straight down and landing it'd be less of a race for you personally I'm imagining you know these are part of what makes this race this competition this experience this adventure so worthwhile to me I mean it's so those are the moments that we
live for I wouldn't want to do that every day I wouldn't want to train for that too much you know because you're at some point your time's going to come you know you can't you can't just fly in that stuff all the time but like you said but it's you know I bet you walked away from that pretty nervous probably breathing a little heavy you know your heart's but you're also kind of like yeah you know I got it this is what this is why I'm here it's not just to have the great flights it's to have you know it's to piece together these hard ones right
yeah I mean flights like this it's it's not if they're not happening I'm happy also yeah because it's not that fun for sure you know there's more more risk and involved and and we cannot see the wind and we cannot see turbulences and we can just feel them and react to them so if you would see the air I think a lot of we would not go flying in a lot of places definitely because yeah so that's the one thing there was this this one saying of when we did the Dolomiti superfly and there were there's it's not so much meteor on this race and and there was at
least
this kind of conditions but we were a little more protected from the northern and when we were landing at the next turn point he he did say on German he did say yeah that would have not been needed which means yeah this part was not necessary so I would have been happy if it wouldn't been like this so he was he was also like on his on his limit and flying there on the edge and so
we knew we know that conditions like this are flyable in a certain way but you have to be so cautious and and so so aware of of the conditions and of what could happen in conditions like this if you're 100 % focused it's it's like driving on a on a racetrack for a racing driver if it does a mistake it can have it you have a crash and then you you know what I mean it's it's a racetrack isn't safe as well and and and people go racing there and that's the racetrack for us is the Alps and and
if you say okay we need we need rules that forbid there is this weather and people cannot fly then it won't be X-Up anymore then it's a different race and it's also cool I like different formats and why is there not another X-Up and I think Paul is thinking about things and but X-Ups is is special and X-Ups is an adventure and everybody can take his own decisions I think that's very important for this race and yeah so and I did one mistake I did one mistake I really I looked at Instagram and I looked at comments and I saw comments from people I know and they were like oh and I
just said okay I have to get my phone away and and no Instagram for me and the next time I looked at social media was at the Mont Blanc area because my video guy Dario was walking with me and he was like hey did you see the last summary of the of the last day and I was like no no man I haven't looked at Instagram in a long time and he was like yeah look at it what I did and I was looking at it and I was like wow he did a really amazing job in in in putting all together and and I was like looked at him and said wow great work and motivated me a lot yeah but I just looked at the stuff I posted so I think that's I think that's very
smart there's there's quite a gallery out there I mean if I looked at all the bad comments about our live shows then I would be so crumpled I'd never be able to speak again so
it would just damage my ego too much I would never be able to do my job
Simone I have a lot more questions here but we're up to up against our time here a little bit so I want to ask you you've seen the race both ways you know forever and ever it went to Monaco you got to experience that specialness and now it's the big out and back keeps getting bigger not so much comment on that but I would like to hear your thoughts on how it could be better you know what are there things that you know either the race organization you know who now I'm working for obviously but how could it how could it improve and I think there's lots of little things but are there there are a couple big things that would make it more fun for the fans more fun for the athletes I don't know safer whatever anything big that you're you know after five times I bet you've got some thoughts on this
definitely yeah so there is I see both sides because it's hard to organize a race like this it really is hard and I think that the X-Hubs is also like giving a lot for for for pilots like me so they're giving me a stage to like hey so I'm here I do my adventure I do my line and I can fly like this or I can compete on this level so and so I'm thankful for this platform but of course they also need to sell it and there are
things where you you say okay you're like putting a lot of sponsors into your your wing which is like your wing and you just get the stickers and you have to put them in that's like a thing but okay then I think it's it's it's you know the life tracking is the heart of the X-Hubs and
yeah I
mean this year was a
disaster they
can't they but it was it I heard for me it feels like it's every year every year people saying oh what was the life tracking and and and I think there's there you need to put a lot of money because that's like that's what the people actually are really watching and and I don't really understand why why they're because there are so good solutions out there there are really good solutions out there and I think I think this is something that could be improved a lot and I think doing via Verratas on the X-Hubs is something very dangerous I
get it they want to get cool pictures and stuff like this and and they sell it not as a paragliding race they sell it as an adventure race that's cool to get a bigger audience but you have to consider that in the Alps conditions are not always right for via Verratas and they can be not right for via Verratas for a long time so this is something unfair for people because when there's a thunderstorm and then who decides is it still okay to do it and is it not okay to do it now and there were some
situations really on the edge and yeah talk to Greedy about it I saw the video I think this was the this was maybe the most dangerous situation maybe for him I guess because you cannot do anything about it you kind of have to do this this via Verrata and I don't think this is cool this is so it's not that I don't like to climb the via Verrata that's not the issue it's just not really safe for everybody because sometimes the weather is like this sometimes like this maybe this is this is very important and then the
more and more turn points you get the
more the route is is given so you and it will always like stop the race for a moment which makes it a little more thrilling to watch and it's harder to break away so maybe that's even a good thing but not sure so I liked it when there were not a lot of turn points because this was like allowing a lot of freedom to choice routes and a lot of things and I think this was also very exciting to watch and yeah I guess there there are a lot of things you can improve in a race like this and it's
important to give the
to give the pilot a good to value the pilot that's that's very important I think and and of course you have to to value the sponsors also because they give the money they give the the possibility to do a race like this but yeah don't forget the pilot
like you said I think very eloquently you said I think what often gets lost in the chatter and the complaints is understanding what it takes but you've got to get that balance right and I think that Tom and I had pretty similar views as what you're saying here I think we've lost we could we could gain safety and adventure by removing turn points and and having more you know I remember in 20 I think it was 2015 when Nick Namens just started going off into space I mean he went so far north of where everybody else did with his block of cheese and his mom you know and it was awesome and he made it he kind of made it work kind of didn't matter and then you interview what are you doing I don't I'm just having fun you know and it was so cool I mean he went like three passes north of where everybody else did what is he doing you know and I
remember what was it in 2017 with the lakes and Paul's route you know way south
super cool super nice super
cool yeah so and I think from a spectator standpoint too that that's really fun and at the same time we also understand that that's where a lot of the money's coming from you know in these in these turn point sponsors so I get it you know I see it now you know working for the organization I'm not involved in any of that obviously I'm involved in just videoing you guys but it's you know it's I understand how difficult it is it is the greatest platform you know it is an incredible opportunity but I agree with you on all points there I think you can accomplish a few things with a few little changes that help everything
certainly the live tracking is a good start but Simone I've just so enjoyed watching you and spending time with you and delivering pizza to you that was a blast and oh
that was really really Gavin I have to say that that was so nice because it was I think 35 or 40 kilometers on the road in the rain and suddenly he really stopped by I said I have pizza for you I heard you ordered pizza and I was like fuck no really man it was really good pizza
and more Chrigel got the shaft I don't know if you saw that whole video that we produced from that but Aaron was too generous and Aaron and his supporters took a bunch and I looked in the box right before I delivered it two tiny little pieces but it was great his reaction was terrific it was so much fun but well one more question I'm assuming you're going to do it again is it still too early to know or
it's a little too early to know because of course I have to talk to my supporters I of course need them if I want to do it again and you always have to you have we all have a certain energy level yeah and like we have energy and you take a lot of energy and put it into Excel and so there are always parts where the energy is missing that's something you always have to consider but I think if everything is right I would love to do it again that's
good to hear Simon thank you I appreciate your time and have fun there with Tommy at your school and can't wait to see what you do next but thanks for your time and thanks for coming on the show I appreciate you
thank you for the invitation thank you for the good question and everything and also thank you for the good and really cool insights during the race because now I watched some videos of you and you were really pulling and this is something very cool and you understand the race and you could cover it really good so that was very nice to see this time that this was happening finally more I think we need more of this like more coverage really and like from people who really do understand the race because it's not easy to understand and to bring it to the people thank you I love it it's a great
job I really dig it thanks Simone talk soon bud
cool if
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