Hi
there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. All right, we're going to be in the throes of the Red Bull X-Alps here for a little bit. Just got off the phone, I guess you'd call it, the podcast recording with Simone Oberhauer. I was surprised to, for some reason, didn't totally remember this, but Simone's first race was in 2017. I thought it was 2019, but he's now done the Red Bull X-Alps five times, and he's spent just about a decade pursuing this, along with a number of other races. He's done the X-Pyr a couple times, or at least, and the Dolomite Superfly, and he teaches paragliding. He's got a business with Tommy Friedrich, another Red Bull X-Alps pilot, and he's never done worse than sixth in all of his five campaigns.
Pretty remarkable. It was third, again, on the podium this year, second time on the podium, and had what he called the best race yet. Of course, the weather was pretty good, but it also had some pretty dicey stuff. You guys all saw the storm at the end of night number one, and the crazy fern on day number two. So we talk about his highs and lows, how he picked such a great team. Those guys all had a blast. He had a really good team this year, and a couple of them have been with him since the beginning. But, I mean, it's good. We get into how we can make the race better from the organization side, and all the turn points and the via ferratas. He's got his viewpoints on that. Why he keeps coming back to it, even though he's certainly checked the box and cracked the code on this race.
And we talk about risk and just life in general. I had a blast. Simone is just universally regarded as one of the kindest people. And sportsman in the race. He's always just such a pleasure to be around. He's always smiling, always happy. He has a really terrific attitude, and you can tell he's just loving it. A lot of fun to be around. So it was great to get his take, as it's all still fresh. It's only been a couple of weeks since the end of the race, and it sounds like he's pretty excited for 2027. Enjoy.
Simone, awesome to have you back on the show. You just reminded me. A little thing with you and Chrigel and the Salewa athletes in 2019. I thought it was 2017. It's easy to lose track of time. But good to see your smiling face after a few weeks. It hasn't been that long, hasn't it? July 24th. So we wrapped up about three weeks ago, and you did it once again in incredible style. I was actually just going through your races since 2017 was your first. You got fifth that year. You haven't been worse than sixth, which is incredible. I mean, it's kind of funny that Aaron had never been better than sixth, and then he won this year. So he really put together a hell of a race, but you've always put together amazing races.
So let's start there. You and I talked about this a little bit, you know, when you got to the raft and we chatted a bit, but your attitude is famous. Everybody talks about what a great attitude you have. What do you chalk up your success to in this, you know, the toughest adventure race on earth? Because you've had a hell of a run.
Definitely. Yeah, I'm quite happy with how it went, especially this year. This was for sure my best race. I never was able to really focus that much on my, let's say, on my career. On my line, on my decisions, on, on, on those things that good. So, yeah, I'm really happy with this year, but yeah, what, what keeps me this attitude is maybe from the beginning, from the start, I never tried to focus that much on, on the positioning, which was very hard in the beginning because I just told myself, yeah, no, it doesn't matter.
And, and, but for sure, the first time you start it accepts you. You get like, you're smashed into this big race and, and the risk management you've thought about in advance is, is like completely, um, gone because you're like, you have to push and you have to go. And, and yeah, that was like the first, the first except it was like the first two days, 2017. I think you, you were there too, huh? Two 17. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It was, we
just walked the first day. The weather was terrible. Yeah.
The, the terrible North fan on the second day and I did some horrible decisions there and I, I even wanted to, to, to quit. So really, yeah, that was very close for me. I really, I really thought about it because, because I, because of the risk. Yeah. I took off in, in way too, too much wind for me at that time. I, I was way above my comfort zone and, and then I. I, yeah, I just kept on walking. I had my girlfriend with me and she said, Hey, let's, let's just walk some meters and, and look tomorrow. And, and the next day, uh, was a very good flying day and I could like focus on myself again because I said, okay, I don't matter about ranking or anything.
I just try to find my, my, my line and my, my spirit. And this kind of worked. And at the end, I was, uh, at the end of the third day, I was third and, and then I, I, I thought, okay, now I know how it works, how it's working. And then next day I was, I was in the middle field again, around 15th again. Okay. Oh, shit. Okay. I don't know. It was up and down and up and down. And in the end it was fifth place and I was super happy and it was just a real big adventure. And I really, it
was the toughest, the 2017 definitely was the toughest for my body because we walked so much. It was.
Yeah. The weather was terrible.
Yeah. And the, the, then we had to, to, to go to, through the flatlands of Turin.
That was so tough. I always thought that's, that's the nicest part to fly there. And yeah. And then we had to walk there. But yeah, I always tried to. Um, enjoy the race kind of,
that's
your secret,
just to do. Yeah. Yeah. But it's hard. It's of course, it's hard to enjoy, but if you think about it, um, you, you're training so much, you're, you're putting so much energy in advance into this, in the organization, in the preparation for this race. So there goes so much in it. And then the race day comes and a lot of people then. Um, let's say, uh, yeah, they, they just see the race and okay, I have to perform. I have to perform and I think, okay, I did so much and now it's time for me to, to show what I can for sure. And I want to show what I can, but I really also have to enjoy this because I worked so much for it.
And, and then for me, this, this works like this approach and, and then I don't look at, at the. The numbers too much and just, and I'm just happy to, to be there because it's not like something you, you, you take for granted to be in a race like it's, it's for me, it's I'm really happy to compete with the best in the world and yeah, so maybe I just try to see the positive things and, and maybe that's my, my secret word, but for sure they're not, not, not just like on the good things for sure. So tell
me more about in this race, when we first started recording there, you said that this was the one where you were really able to fly your lines and that was really special. It, for me, it was kind of the opposite in, in my first was 2015 and because I really didn't have any clue where I belonged in that 32 people. And yeah. You know, getting third in the prologue was this huge boost in confidence that really helped. I think that was the first year they had the prologue. So that really helped me. But I think in a sense, because I had no expectations, I was able to fly how I fly and, and that worked really well. Um, I w I wasn't so worried in my mind about if this didn't work or if I blew this line, it just, I
don't know why that did, that wasn't a factor. And then it became a factor in the, in the future races because in 2015 I did quite well. And then I had expectations and then I had in a sense pressure and that made it worse. And I never really got better with that. Yeah. We do all the training, but I guess what I'm trying to say is my, I never really got back to flying my lines to flying how I fly. It was because it became more follow the leader as they add more weight. Waypoints, but also it became, God, if I go 15 K off course line here and follow the obvious sky, which you do as a pilot is a good pilot, but I would start thinking, what if I fuck this up?
What if I screw this up? It's going to be that much more walking. It was really hard to get more in flow. I felt like I was more in flow the first time than I ever was. I mean, I had moments, but you seem to. Stay more in flow. Yeah. I'd be curious to hear how, why this year was, why was it so special?
Why, why was it so special? Because everything worked so well for me. You know, sometimes the things, the things just, you, you take decisions and they work and then you, you get into a flow. But I definitely also had a great team this year. This was, they, they worked really well. They had a good spirit, they were motivated and that's, that's something that pushes you a lot. If you, if you have good friends with you and that's friends, that's really good friends. Simon is, is there since 2017, since my first race. And Moritz, my main supporter, is there since 2019.
They, he's, he's always had a role in, in, in my life. And so they, they know how it's, how the race is and they know if they are worried about things or like,
let's say if they're a little frustrated because I'm maybe 30 kilometers now behind the leaders and, and things like that, they don't let me, let me feel it. That's, that's something very important because for me, this time when I, there was some, some time. Sometimes I was, I was behind a bit, like 30, 40 kilometers, but I never saw it as a problem for me. So it, it was never, oh shit, I have to, I have to, I have to catch them, I have to catch them or something. I just saw, okay, what possibilities do I have? How, how looks my fastest line to get there?
Somehow I, I could concentrate on, on, on, on my, really on, on my flying, like I would fly at home. Like I would go cross country flying at home, completely free and intuitive. This just worked out.
One time I did a big mistake because I, I was feeling like very free and thought, ah, this is a, this is a good line and it's, it's a little detour, but it could work very fine. And then in the end it worked, it was a shit line, it was, but this, this things happened, they happen often. But, but that's, except they never, everything is working. This is, this is, um, for sure, but yeah, it was definitely the team. This was very good team and, and they had, they did everything right. But we, we, we didn't, we haven't been that much luck with, with,
let's say the, um, the health of my team because in the first night, um, there was. There were like four or five teams at Platzwiese in the Dolomites parking and my, yeah, let's say it like this. I, I heard in the night, two o'clock in the night, 3am around, and I heard a door from a van opening and closing. And then I heard somebody throwing up for at least half an hour, like really hard. Oh, it was, it was. And I thought, ah, that poor, ah, that poor guy and, and then I thought, wait, was
the door at my van? And I, I opened the, the, the latch and like looked down because I'm sleeping in the roof tent and looked down and, and saw there's only one person laying and, and, and it was my main supporter Moritz and he looked me up and said, shit. And I said, oh shit.
It's Mogli, my physiotherapist and, and he had, he must have eaten also something not that good. And he was partying two days before the race a little bit and he was just, yeah. And then we had, we were like, oh shit, will it, will I get it also? Because in, in, you, you cannot, um, like guarantee somebody in this race. Yeah. And he was really not feeling good, but he knew I needed him because, um, he's like really good physiotherapist and he's so, we need him in the team because he's just, yeah, um, spreading good vibes all the time.
And yeah, after, after three days he was back on his foot and he was able to, to, to, um, support me again. Like really on the mountains and doing everything. Yeah. So yeah. Well, I'm super thankful for them briefly,
uh, I mean, not to be that brief, but how many people on your team and what are the roles and how did you choose your team this time? Obviously you've had, you know, the two, the two you just said have been with you mostly since the beginning, but talk about that a bit, because I imagine a lot of people listening, this is a dream, right? Maybe, maybe someday I'll be able to compete in the Red Bull X-Alps. And I think it's important. The team is obviously so critical, uh, you know, kind of the unsung heroes and you had a really good experience. How did you, how did you put it together? What does everybody do and, uh, and what are the roles?
Okay. Yeah. Um, so let's start with the main supporter. That's Moritz Kampermüller and he's a very good friend of mine. I, I met him before, just before I started flying. So we. So we, we have a very good friendship going on and we did a lot of adventures together. So he knows me in extreme situations. When did you start flying? So that's like very, okay, 2012, 2012 and he didn't start flying. Um, but I think it was 2017 or 2018 around when I was the first X-Alps and then he realized, this
flying looks really nice, what I'm doing. And, and then he had a little injury at his finger. And then he said, I cannot climb at the moment because he was climbing a lot. Can you teach me how to fly? And I said, okay, let's go. And I sent him to the flying school, which I own now. And then he started the basic course and then I took him, let's say under my wing and, and, yeah. Then I teach him a lot and then he started to enjoy it really a lot. And then he put a lot of effort in it. So he, he knows how to fly. He really knows how to fly big triangles and, and he's very fit and yeah, he knows how the game, how the game, um, is going at X-Alps.
Yeah. How it works. So there's Moritz and then there's, um, my physiotherapist. So this is. This is Mowgli, who was sick. Um, I met him, yeah, also, I think he was in 2021 was the first time in 2021 that he was with me and it, it was over a friend, um, and he was like looking, I think for, I was looking for a physiotherapist and then we got in touch and we met and there was like really good chemistry. He was such a nice guy. Yeah. And I thought, ah, cool, this could work really well. And then at the race he was full on fire and always there and yeah.
What is your physiotherapist doing? Are you getting massages and stuff at night or what, what, what are they, what are they taking care of?
Um, he, he's gotten not the approach with massages. It's not his thing. Sometimes I wish I got a massage, but he's more like, um, he's, he's spending me a lot. Yeah. And, and, um, pushing trigger points at the muscles and he, now he really knows my, my body and my, my problems. Sometimes I get some knee problem and when I get this knee problem, I just look at him and say, I feel my knee and he, ah shit, okay. But um, after 10 minutes it's gone and most of the time it's gone for the whole race. So this, um, I, I just can trust him 100%. Yeah. And that's worth so much because he really knows what to do to, to keep me fit.
Let's say it like this. Yeah. So there's okay. And yeah, we, we have a very good friendship also. So this is, um, yeah, very important part. And then there was the, the second car and there was Simon, um, who supported me, um, 2019, 2021. Um, 2023, um, as main supporter, but, um, this year he said, I, I don't want to be the main supporter. I want to, because I have some other things going on and yeah, I want to step back a little bit and say, Hey, no, no problem. Um, but I want to support you like not main, but I want to come with you.
And that was, that's very, that was very nice from him because he knows also how the race is going. And so I have two cars with two, um, people who really knows what's happening in the race. So this is, this is super important. And then there was Dario who has a very small one man production firm with video and, and he did document the whole race. And he did a really great job. And. It's the first time I had somebody really for media and for, for documenting it. And this worked super nice. And I met him at some smaller races in our area, the, the border races in Austria, maybe, maybe you know them.
It's like, I can fly conditions, 33 hours. And he did there some videos and I was talking to him some, some times and, and then I thought, it would be very nice. If I had. Somebody for excerpts. And then I just asked him and he was like, oh yeah, man, sounds nice. And then it went on and we took more and he said, yeah, cool. I think I could imagine coming with you. And then he just came and he fitted perfectly into the team.
Who's doing your weather. Have you got a, are you outsourcing weather to somebody else back home and feeding it to you? Or is it somebody on the team that's mobile with you?
Yeah. It's who is doing most of the weather. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's quite nice. And, and there was one, one other person that was Stefan who is who learned flying, flying and like two years ago from in our school with us. And he's kind of an adventurer, full adventure guy. He's very often in Africa and with his, with his small bladder, maybe, you know, bladder, the, the, the, the small, um, four times four, um, vehicles, he's driven it from Graz, Austria to, um, I guess now it's, it's not the whole of Africa, but he's still, um, like expeditioning with this small thing and preparing it on the go.
And, and so we had somebody who is very also in, with a worry, um, with a lot of experience in adventure. So this was very nice. And yeah, he also did fit in the team. Just perfect. And so, yeah. So five,
five supporters, two cars, two vehicles.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. One with roof tent and one, one summer mobile, which is like, um, yeah, California, but made by other firm. And yeah, this worked really cool. So one, one was a Toyota. He loves it. Yeah. This, this work like one time we really had to, he looks set to work up the hill. Yeah.
Yeah. So what is your, I'd be curious to hear about your training? Um, I mean, again, briefly, but, uh, you know, when does it kind of officially start if it ever does, or are you just always training and then how have you changed things from in 2017 was your first you'd been flying for five years, I guess. Right. You have five, six years. Uh, you know, it's almost a decade now you've been competing, you know, so how old were you when you started? And yeah, how has that shifted? How, what does your training look like? I
think it the training evolved just, just naturally. Um, in the beginning, it's, it's hard to train for a race which you haven't been racing before, so I just thought, okay, I do a lot of adventure, um, flying, like bivouac tours and just being outside and trying to experience different weather conditions. So that was my approach. And the border races, which are like 33 hours competitions with a lot of hiking most of the time, sometimes more than 150 kilometers, and so your body learns to, to deal with long days on the streets.
That's something really important for, because it's not always like this year, and the two years before was also very good, but that's not for sure, that's not granted to fly a lot like this. So your body needs to, to be able to handle a day of walking. That's just, you really need to be able to do this. And so that's what I knew, and I also knew from 2015, when I was with, with Paul, um, I was supporting him, um, Like it was, I think maybe, maybe a month before the race, or even closer to the race, he, he asked, "Yes, Simon, do you think you would, you would like to join me?" It's like, "Oh, wow, yeah, sure, let's do it." And then suddenly I was joining Paul for the XS, um, and there I experienced what XLS is like.
Wow, and I saw that the flying is the, the biggest part, and that's where, where the, where the group divides if you're able to stay in the air and use it whole day. So I knew I have to train just flying and keeping in the, like, keep flying even when, when the conditions get like slow and you Think you're not doing a lot of progress, you just need patience, and patience, patience, patience sometimes to keep flying to top land to wait to put out the tempo to the speed to go slow and give the weather the chance or the thermal, and that's
something I, I learned a lot and tried to train a lot to, to keep patient. And okay, there will be, there will be a window, there will be a possibility, that's just something I, um, I always have in my flying from, yeah, this was, it was always a little bit of my, my style to, to be patient, to keep flying to, yeah, just spend a lot of time in the air, and that's what worked during XOPS all the time. Do you have a
trainer or do you have somebody you're kind of accountable to in training? for the okay no
You just do it on your own? No, no, I just do it on my own. Yes, yeah, yeah, what?
Would be you, you, you supported Paul in 2015. Imagine being a supporters, I've never been a supporter, so but I, when I watch it now as I have the last two, you know, the last two editions and seen it kind of from the other side, I wish I had. It seems like you really learn a lot, uh, but for those listening who are, you know, maybe they've done like the board air, other smaller hike and fly races, uh, but they've got their eyes set on X-Ops. What are, what are, say three things that you think are really important to understand about the race or to prepare? What are the, what are the kind of key things? Because like I said, you, you unlocked it right from the beginning, you, you seem to have unlocked the Red Bull X-Ops code in a sense.
you
Yeah, um, okay. So, what are the—the three most important things, like, for the athlete? Or, for sure, the—the most important thing is—is—is—is you, as an athlete, have to know
Your strengths, your strengths... let's say it like this: you're, where, where are you good? And if it's flying, then it's maybe this is the, the, the crucial, crucial thing about, about X-Ops. You just really need to be good at flying. Um, so the flying training is the most important part. This is where most of the energy should go. Don't try to plan everything in advance because you can't, um, train for the unexpected or train the adventure a little bit like this.
I hope it's understandable, but You, you, you cannot plan the whole race in advance; it won't work. And there will be, there will be situations where you don't, which you have never experienced before. And then you need to listen to your feeling because you know how to fly; otherwise, you wouldn't be there, you wouldn't be at the X-Ops. And then you have to, to trust your body to do your thing, and then you have to trust your body to do your thing senses, or you have to be able to see what the other people in front, if you're not in front did and you have to understand it. So you have to also to understand other lines. So you have to be able to watch other people flying and
take the advantage out of that. That's important in a race. It's always. You always have to also watch your opponent a little bit. Not all the time. You're not allowed to be just focused on them because then you lose the focus on yourself and then you're not in a good place.
So focus on your flying and try to yeah then the second maybe try not to plan everything at once. Plan the turn points because that's where you have to be on the ground and where you have to get airborne again. Or have to move on. What's the third? Find a good team that supports you because they want to support you and not because they want to. It's very important to have the team that really let's say likes you and wants to support your mission.
And wants to support your mission on this X-Ups. And maybe the fourth thing would be don't have big expectations because they are putting you on the ground. That's very important. On my first X-Ups my main supporter that was Christoph. I started flying with him together and we always like to talk about everything and philosophy. All things and everything. And this one evening the whole team was together and it was a big team in 2017. And sitting there, Domi was there. I think he was 16 or something like this. And then
Christoph said, okay now I want everybody to make a guessing how much chance
Simon has to win the X-Ups. To beat Greedy.
How much chance do you think Simon has? And everybody should have read a number on a paper. Yeah. And then okay. Let's start. And then it was like 70 % and Domi said yeah. 90 % chance that he is beating Greedy. I was like yeah. Maybe 50. I was like I was like. Maybe this could happen but I was totally stupid number. And then he said okay now I tell you what I've written on the paper.
And he was like 2.5%.
He was like no chance. And that was completely right. That was completely right. Because Greedy really knows what he's doing there. And he was so good prepared compared to me for this race. You
don't know what you were preparing for yet. I mean the first time it's just there's a lot. Yeah.
Yeah. That's just there's so much to learn and to see.
I was like okay in the beginning and then I started thinking about it. And I said yeah. I think he's kind of right.
Because Greedy knows to I wasn't I was far away from from being able to to be faster than Greedy. Yeah. Definitely. And that was that was kind of a nice thing that happened. He always is like he likes those those shocking approaches. Yeah that's great. I like that. Let's talk
about Greedy because this was this was a big one wasn't it? You know eight eight time champion. You and Lars and Aaron got him in the end. It was kind of you know I took off with you guys that morning heading to Laramouse. It was still anybody's race at that point. Pretty thrilling end. He's always kind of crushed those eight you know in a sense. It hasn't really been close.
He was the oldest in this race which was interesting. You know that I mean he's only 42. That's not old for an endurance racer, but it's, you know, so anyway, first non-Swiss, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot we could talk about here, but there's a lot of incredible storylines. But it was interesting because, I mean, right from my first one in 2015, that's always the talk, you know, in the week before the race. This is the year that Chrigel's going to get beat. This is the year and I've always got yeah no no way. No I mean and especially I think you know last year with his big X-Peaks expedition I just thought God he's still you know that's a realm now that another realm that he is going to dominate in.
I mean, he, he and Peter, they are his partner, Peter. They've learned so much, I would imagine, you know, just operating up high and above cloud base often, and just in a lot of horrendous weather, and so this caught me by surprise. I, I, I certainly was, you know, was not one of the ones who was thinking this was the year he was going to get unseated. And there's a, there's a couple things I talked about with Tom, just a couple days ago. We were recording a podcast with Tom de Dorlodot, and we both kind of agreed that there was a couple big factors. The gear probably didn't help, you know, that he wasn't on a sub, and you know, so maybe a little bit overconfidence there. But that led him to, you know, to choose that gear because he had done, he got third in the World Cup.
Exactly. Well, May a year ago in his hometown at the Grindelwald World Cup, which I was at, and he, you know, he flew on the impress and everybody else was on a sub, but he got third. And so, I think that was probably, oh, I can just outthink this, or I don't know, I haven't gotten a chance to talk to Chrigel, I don't know if you have, but I'd love to get. Then the other thing was just the weather was pretty good this time, and it does really seem like Chrigel makes his big move. He, he, he really shines when the weather is terrible, and we didn't really have much bad weather, you know, other than that day two, but there wasn't a lot of separation that day. So we'll talk about day two here in a bit, and I want to talk to you about the storm night one because you chose a different, different way down that night.
So we'll talk about that, but I'd love to just get your thoughts. I think everybody would what happened
this year? what happened this year? Yeah, I think Chrigel did did a lot of moves to to like get away, to to push away. It's like maybe like the Tour de France at the moment where one tries to sprint away and tries to break away from the crew, and but the bellaton, the bellaton really worked great. Yeah, we always catched him, so we had him again. And maybe there was also some luck missing, and sometimes he pushed too hard and maybe too fast, and then we catched him easily. And sometimes he really had problems, and I think comparing in in thermals, he was he was not climbing that well.
That was, I guess, a big a big factor. I really have to say that you could you could feel it because Chrigel is an excellent Excellent thermal fly. When you, when you fly with him, he's, he's, he really knows how to, and how to do it good, and he most of the time also comes out top. And this time was different. Maybe I also gained a lot of experience, but you could see, okay, he's struggling to, to get away, and, and we had no problem like leading, and so he had to follow again, which is
not his thing, you know? He doesn't like that he
likes to be out in front, yeah, with yes, yeah, yeah. Normally he's, he's like, if he's in the back, then he sometimes... there were XO's races where he just, he was like two hours on a thermal day behind, and then he boom, started the turbo and was in front again. So that, that also happened, but this time he just couldn't break away, so that was the one part. And for sure, we had good flying weather, so there was not this, okay? But I think this extreme, extreme weather situation where we couldn't fly efficient, because he knows how to fly efficient with a lot of wind and maybe
We all learned to do that more, to to to use to use strong conditions like or heavy conditions like thin winds to. I think we all gained a lot of experience during X-Alps races, and now we know how it works a little bit, and where you can fly and where you should not fly, and what to expect, because it's always hard when you don't know what to expect for certain conditions, and then you cannot fly because it's if you don't know what's coming or what is the possibility of when I fly there, then you cannot fly efficient and maybe that, yeah.
Maybe he didn't have the the chance to break away to do to get into his and like lone reader leader role because that's what he's used to so much, and yeah, but he was chill. He was really chill, like he enjoyed the race. I
had a very special, you know, kind of personal moment that your last day when I was up with you guys, you know, and launched with you, you know, heading to Lermous. It was very instructional for me. The last two, these both, these last two have been very instructional for me because it's a different, it's so different that I can observe and and in a sense pick apart, learn
How you guys do it and compare it to what I had done in my races. And I already said, you know, one of the things that really started working against me was this whole fear of blowing it and not flying my lines, but it was really cool to see how chill you guys were up there that day. You know, I don't remember many moments like that for me in the race, you know, just so relaxed and so chill and just making jokes. And you weren't, you know, Lars launched and he was making it work and no one was really in a hurry. You know, Lars was what, 10k behind you guys and launched just before you that day. Same same air mass and same place and stuff, but
You know, for me, it was always—and maybe this was because I was never out in front—but it was always more racing, you know? More, "I gotta go, I gotta move, I gotta go." And it was really cool to see how just relaxed you guys were. I mean, Chrigel even commented on it. You and I were laughing when I was filming and I said, "What do you see about today?" "I see a lake, I see a ski area." That was so funny. But is that you?
know, was that moment did that capture a lot of how you are in the race, or was that unique? It
Depends on the day. If it's a really good flying day, you know that the decisions that are important will be made in the air, and if you go too early and you fuck it up, then you just have to run up again. And we already did the glide down. We did our work. Let's say it like this: in the morning, we did a very efficient glide down. We got ourselves in a good position, and it was—it was also really good to compare with the Tour de France.
If you, if you go, if you break out of that pack in the beginning now, because it still was a long race, then it's more likely that you do a mistake and and pump out and then you, you lost like something like this. So everybody was like, cool and chill, and checking each other out a little bit, and we knew, okay, we, we have to go to Leamos and this will like to go there. We don't normally on a good day like this, everybody knows how to fly there, and there won't be a big gap, and it will, we'll all get together on Leamos again, and then we will go up, and then the real race will start, so
That's was kind of the situation, and well, let's say how I experienced it, because I knew we, we, it's just an incredible day and it's a perfect line to Leamos and perfect south-east. And yeah, if, if we cannot fly east, then okay, then we have another problem, but this worked so well and the valley wind was not on, and yeah, it was perfect. It was like, like we say in Austria, a hammer day, yeah, perfect. But in Leamos, the racing started there. We, it started slow up the hill and slowly we, we started to push more and push more and push more, and, and then I suddenly became nose bleeding from the morning because in the morning I was, I had something in my nose and tried to
pull it out and accidentally cut it with my nail and so I had nose bleeding in the morning and but then it went away and on when we walked up and Then we got really fast. Suddenly, my nose started to bleed, very, very intense.
I didn't have anything to put inside my nose or anything. I looked at my support at Moritz and said, "Fuck, my nose is bleeding." He was like, "Oh, fuck," and I took and he took his cap, a running cap like this, and he was like, "I don't know, I only have this," and it was completely wet from his sweat. It was completely wet, and I was like, pushing it on my nose, gave him one walking stick and pushing up, and I said, "Okay, now I'm not losing them now," and kept on pushing. And on the take off, last gave me some toilet paper. I put into my nose and it, yeah, it worked. But, but there we we took off like two
minutes or something like this. It was like, okay, laying, laying out, but still in a controlled and not hectic way, because when you learn one thing at X-Ups, it's if you like go racing, racing, this most of the time leads to maybe one small mistake where you where you forget to put your barrier or to. If you have one little mistake, that can cost you so much more, so you, you always have to stay like a little calm at the take off. Okay, do I have everything? Okay, I can go. So that's a very important thing, and that's so the take off should always be calm, because you go flying, you go flying, and you just need to have everything.
So that's always for me, at least, and it was also for everybody who was at the take off there, like Aaron Das Chrigel, okay? Jill, and then we shook our hands and said, "Okay, let's go, good luck." And yeah, and then we knew it's on, yeah, and such.
A, I mean, truly a photo finish. I mean, watching you and Lars come in with about 10 seconds to one another was just—you saw how excited I was on the top? That was just unbelievable. Yeah, Simon, you had a different take. So, night one, we had that huge storm up on at the at the Sexton turn point, and you know, we're all huddled underneath that roof and it was just dumping hail and nasty. And then a brief break, no hesitation for Chrigel, and you guys all start hiking out there, and so we're all basically running out in the hail, and you know, a handful, those guys took off and they did not make it look good.
It was—I mean, we had video of that, and they ended up getting a penalty. Um, but you didn't. You—you know, Maxime had already walked down, and and you—you—you, I saw you, you looked and just kept going. You just walked, walked down. I'd love to hear Two things that decision, uh, why? But also, there was a lot of chatter this year on the social media, and I don't know how much you were aware of that, but you know, David Sessodelli had that pretty wild launch that went totally viral day two, and there was a lot of couch chatter, you know, that this—it's gotten too risky, it's gladiators versus adventure. Um, I have a very specific take on this.
I—I don't agree with any of that, but um, but I—I would love to get your thoughts. I mean, to me, it's been that since 2003, it's always been that, um, we just—we're just doing a much better job of showing everything now, not just us on the organization side, but everybody. You know, you have your own media person, a lot of the teams do. Anyway, I've asked a lot there, but I'd love to get your thoughts on this.
yeah
Um, so the first day with with the thunderstorm, um, there I was seeing everybody taking off and it looked—it looked awful, yes, because the wind was not out of the of a good direction. The terrain was was shit for taking off. I mean, even Creel ran like that—was you made it look bad. It looked like he wouldn't, he would never take off. It was like, "Fuck, what? What is this?" And and everywhere the hail, there was the hailstone before, and and it was all white. It was—it was, yeah, it was just shit. And I thought, "No, first day, except my legs are fresh." I I walked down, and then I started walking down, and then it also was very slippery.
It was really slippery to walk down in this, in this hail, and and walk down, walk down. And then I checked the conditions again and I was like, "Okay, shit, perfect wind there." It got clearer, there was no sign of rain at that moment at all, and I was like, I looked at my supporter and said, "This looks good, this looks good. Am I missing something?" And and I was like, "It was shit, you're right." It now, it looks better. And then I took off like 200 meters, 200 meters of elevation down, and then it was perfect for flying. For me, in the end, there was a little bit of rain when I landed. Oh, I didn't know! I didn't know you took off; I thought you walked all the way down.
Okay, so you just, you just walked down a little bit and then took off. Interesting, okay? Yeah.
Because then for me, then down there, it, it just looked, looked way better, and it worked super nice. I, I just took off, and, and on the way down, I, um, to when I float flew down, I just looked in the valley where I should have been walking, or I could have been walking, and where my supporters then walked, and there was like, it, it was all a big river. It, it looked like, it also looked not nice to walk there, and, and so I was, I was really happy to, to took the decision to, to fly, but of course, there it was not next to us, it was a couple of kilometers away. When, when I landed, I also heard like
far away, a thunder and things like this. And so, yeah, I also maybe could have walked down, but in that moment, I, I saw it safe, and it was for me. I didn't felt it at the top where the others took off, so for myself, I just took the decision that this is not cool for me. So I walked down, and then I saw, okay, now the conditions changed a little bit, and now I feel safe. And then I took the decision. So, in the end, it's, you have to live with your decisions. That's, that's the very important thing. And for Creedle, it looked good, and he, yeah, he also did a good flight down there. He even landed high, and then he, he even, I think, top landed somehow some, some meters of elevation.
And then this was his first move to get away from us. Um, not a lot of people recognize this, but at Platzwiese, he went up to like, he tried to fly down the pass, which is, which would have been a very good move if he could have done it, but he, he took off and he didn't, he couldn't cross the tree line and he had to land in again, and then he had to land in the completely wet grass in high grass, I think, and then he just took his glider and went straight into the hotel. Really? oh
I didn't know that either.
and man booked a room there, yeah.
Like, ah, fuck it. I take, I take a room. That's funny. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, it just, it looks like this. Yeah, yeah. And of course, then there was this day two of the of the X-Ups, which I think everybody who knows how to read weather and how to need how to read pressure difference diagrams knew that this wouldn't be an easy day. This will be, will be tough, and this will be nothing like, ok, let's go XC flying and easy. I knew that, that the Dolomites won't be that affected of the fern, but we in the beginning we still had north wind, but I flew a lot of times there with north wind and with this kind of conditions, and they worked really well.
So this was, was good flying. It was, it was not easy flying, but it was, it was possible. And then there was the, the crossing to to Meran, and there we had to land to top land at the Meran 2000. And when I was approaching, I also called my supporters to have some some wind data there, and it was like, "Yeah, there there are gusts up there, but they're not sure if the weather station is correct because"
It seems like a lot of wind there, so be careful. And then we were in a big, in a big group who, who came there. And then, at first, I think I saw Tim Malongi landing, and he was like top landing there. And, and in kind of the lee side of the lee, it was, it was like double lee, and he was landing, that looked good. And then he put down his glider, and the wind was like, you could see how he had to, to handle his glider on the ground to not blow him away. And I was like, "Oh, fuck, shit, okay, there's a lot of wind," so
I kept on looking at the others, how the the wings will behave, and so really like thinking, okay, there's the there's this one spot where the the nearest to the to the hiking trail to the Via Ferrata, and it's okay, for sure he's going for this, so Tommy also going for this, and really had like the perfect timing. There was very low wind because it's very near big gusts, and when I was coming in there was big gusts, and I was like, "Oh shit," and really this was a really like intense moment, and you you have to be in that moment, and you know that those
Gusts can come, and I was prepared for it, and I could handle the situation, and also so could Tommy, and we landed back and, okay, let's go. And I was, how will it be at the top? Yeah, because we have to climb the Via Ferrata, go down a bit, and take off again. And there, it was a lot of wind, but more linear, so it was not that gusty. So this was, this was cool. Then in Schenna, down there, you're like in a complete um wind situation, so there's, there was, there was really a lot of wind. But if you know how to handle those situations, you have to be very patient to get this to get the right timing.
You're not allowed to like, okay, spiral down on the way and just land. So I just spiraled half the way, and then I waited, and then I saw, okay, now it's a little less. And then I saw, and then I tried to lose more height and just landed, and it was easy for me there. But of course, if you get like suddenly a gust, you have to handle it again, and it's, it's kind of a tricky situation there. And then we knew there's this, this, this hill where the fern hits from the valley, and you, you will get uplift immediately. And for me, this was the, the, this was like, okay, we can do this, because the north wind will go up the Finchgau and there will also be the wind from, from Reschensee coming down, and normally this area then is, is like a little neutralized.
And it, it was like this in the beginning. We, we were even then struggling to get to, to base, to really get high, but then I somehow managed because, because I took a lot of patience in the first thermal and Chrigel didn't, and Damien and, and Christian Schuck also didn't. They just kept on racing, and then they had the top nine, and I was like, "Wow, nice, it's working so well." And I still have this ridge, and in the higher, higher layers we have north wind, and I was calling my supporters and I was like, "Hey, this could work, this could work." And then I had this one crossing, and I was aware that in the valley will be a lot of wind, but I
was at 3000 and thought, okay, I can, I can go around that, that mountain, and I will soar up again. But then, I, it was like, you're hitting like, you know, Mario Kart, the there are those accelerating stripes and there are these breaking stripes and it's like, okay, whoa.
You, you cannot push against that, that wind, and it was clear, but you had to like push to at least keep your position for, for landing. And then it was at 3000, I knew that, that I had to, to look for a landing in the valley, which is like three or four hundred meters above the sea, like at three or four hundred meters, the landing is. That was at 3000 meters, so 2500 meters of, of just going, of going really, and, and of going down, and, and you knew it when you hit the wall, you knew that you wouldn't go any further that day with flying. That was clear, so I, I
Was just, I was in the zone. I was, I was flying and I knew what was coming. I knew what I had to do and I knew it will be turbulent, it will be rough, it will be not easy. And so I constantly was checking like landing gusts, trees, everything. It was for me, it, it felt as much under control as it can get in this situation. So I had my wing, I knew it, it will be tough to keep it open, but it worked. So and then there's this video, I think from, from Paul, who did like a video from where I was like going down the the valley to my landing place and this was really the most
turbulent part, for sure. He, he scared me during this, and so when, when I saw it on the video, how it was looking, it didn't felt like this for me. That's funny, because for me it felt very under control, and it was—I could land it and I could catch every collapse and reopening it, and so that was, that was manageable for me. It was on the edge, definitely, and but I, I also, I don't really train—you can't really train those situations, but you can, you can train flying in, in, in high, in, in wind situations and through
My experience, or through the years, you—you will, it will happen to for you to to land in heavy valley winds and in this situation, so and that and this and so for me, this didn't felt like a completely new situation, so I knew what what was coming and I knew that I was able to to deal with it. The the problem is if you're under the wing and and you think, "Oh, fuck, what is this? I'm I'm stressed," and then it's getting really dangerous because then most of the time you're not, you're not like, you're not seeing anything but fear and and then it's dangerous and when you look at that video
You, you, you see what would happen if I was in this situation, like, and and oh shit, and shit, and shit, I would never do that. Oh, fuck, fuck, and I can, I can see both sides. Yeah, I can see both sides, that people are like, "Oh, fuck, what are they doing?" And but they cannot look inside me, and they don't know what I put into the preparation, into the race, and that I'm like, "Yeah, doing a lot of like, and really a lot of stuff to to handle those situations." And of course, you're not allowed to do this like all the time, and and keep pushing, and that's not what I, what I want to do.
And and I didn't, I wasn't expecting like a wall of wind like this, and nobody was expecting. And and the funny thing is, everybody knew, knew that I was got pushed down, and Creedy was thinking, "Yeah, I just thought you did a little mistake in approaching the mountain." and I was like, "Yeah, I think that wasn't the right approach to this mountain." That's just boom. And he was like, "Yeah, that was boom." And yeah, so we had to land there. I mean, I
Don't know about you, I have more opinions about this, but it's to me
I don't think the race is getting more dangerous; it's just, it's paragliding, it's dangerous. It's always going to be dangerous. Competition makes people do dumb things, you know? You have decisions like you did at the end of night one, you know, "Okay, is this worth it?" But that's up to you; it's not up to anybody else to decide that. And then, without those moments, you know, without the wall of wind and the straight down and landing, it'd be less of a race for you personally. I'm imagining, you know, these are part of what makes this race, this competition, this experience, this adventure so worthwhile to me. I mean, it's so those are the moments that we
live for, I wouldn't want to do that every day. I wouldn't want to train for that too much, you know, because you're at some point your time's going to come, you know? You can't, you can't just fly in that stuff all the time. But like you said, but it's, you know, I bet you walked away from that pretty nervous, probably breathing a little heavy, you know your heart's, but you're also kind of like, yeah, you know I got it. This is what, this is why I'm here. It's not just to have the great flights, it's to have, you know, it's to piece together these hard ones, right?
Yeah, I mean flights like this, it's... it's not, if they're not happening, I'm happy also, yeah, because it's not that fun for sure, you know? There's more, more risk and involved and and we cannot see the wind and we cannot see turbulences and we can just feel them and react to them. So if you would see the air, I think a lot of we would not go flying in a lot of places, definitely, because yeah, so that's the one thing. There was this, this one saying of when we did the Dolomiti Superfly and there were, there's... it's not so much meteor on this race and and there was at
least
This kind of conditions, but we were a little more protected from the northern, and when we were landing at the next turn point, he, he did say on German, he did say, "Yeah, that would have not been needed," which means, yeah, this part was not necessary. So I would have been happy if it wouldn't been like this. So he was, he was also like on his, on his limit and flying there on the edge, and so
We knew, we know that conditions like this are flyable in a certain way, but you have to be so cautious and and so so aware of of the conditions and of what could happen in conditions like this. If you're 100% focused, it's it's like driving on a on a racetrack for a racing driver. If it does a mistake, it can have it, you have a crash, and then you you know what I mean? It's it's a racetrack isn't safe as well, and and and people go racing there, and that's the racetrack for us is the Alps and and
If you say, "Okay, we need we need rules that forbid there is this weather and people cannot fly," then it won't be X-Up anymore. Then it's a different race, and it's also cool. I like different formats, and why is there not another X-Up? And I think Paul is thinking about things, and but X-Ups is is special, and X-Ups is an adventure, and everybody can take his own decisions. I think that's very important for this race, and yeah, so and I did one mistake. I did one mistake. I really, I looked at Instagram and I looked at comments, and I saw comments from people I know, and they were like, "Oh," and I
Just said, "Okay, I have to get my phone away," and and no Instagram for me. And the next time I looked at social media was at the Mont Blanc area because my video guy, Dario, was walking with me and he was like, "Hey, did you see the last summary of the of the last day?" And I was like, "No, no man, I haven't looked at Instagram in a long time." And he was like, "Yeah, look at it what I did." And I was looking at it and I was like, "Wow, he did a really amazing job in in in putting all together." And and I was like, looked at him and said, "Wow, great work," and motivated me a lot. Yeah, but I just looked at the stuff I posted, so I think that's I think that's very
Smart, there's... there's quite a gallery out there. I mean, if I looked at all the bad comments about our live shows, then I would be so crumpled, I'd never be able to speak again. So...
It would just damage my ego too much; I would never be able to do my job.
Simone, I have a lot more questions here, but we're up to up against our time here a little bit, so I want to ask you, you've seen the race both ways, you know, forever and ever. It went to Monaco, you got to experience that specialness, and now it's the big out and back keeps getting bigger. Not so much comment on that, but I would like to hear your thoughts on how it could be better. You know, what are there things that you know, either the race organization, you know, who now I'm working for obviously, but how could it, how could it improve? And I think there's lots of little things, but are there, there are a couple big things that would make it more fun for the fans, more fun for the athletes, I don't know, safer, whatever, anything big that you're, you know, after five times, I bet you've got some thoughts on this.
Definitely, yeah. So there is, I see both sides because it's hard to organize a race like this. It really is hard, and I think that the X-Hubs is also like giving a lot for, for, for pilots like me. So they're giving me a stage to like, hey, so I'm here, I do my adventure, I do my line, and I can fly like this, or I can compete on this level. So, and so I'm thankful for this platform, but of course they also need to sell it, and there are
things where you, you say, okay, you're like putting a lot of sponsors into your, your wing, which is like your wing, and you just get the stickers and you have to put them in. That's like a thing, but okay. Then I think it's, it's, it's, you know, the life tracking is the heart of the X-Hubs and
yeah I
mean, this year was a
disaster they
Can't they? But it was... it, I heard, for me it feels like it's every year, every year people saying, "Oh, what was the life tracking?" And and and I think there's... there you need to put a lot of money because that's like, that's what the people actually are really watching. And and I don't really understand why, why they're... because there are so good solutions out there, there are really good solutions out there. And I think, I think this is something that could be improved a lot. And I think doing via Verratas on the X-Hubs is something very dangerous.
I Get it, they want to get cool pictures and stuff like this, and and they sell it not as a paragliding race; they sell it as an adventure race. That's cool to get a bigger audience, but you have to consider that in the Alps, conditions are not always right for via Verratas, and they can be not right for via Verratas for a long time. So this is something unfair for people because when there's a thunderstorm, and then who decides, is it still okay to do it, and is it not okay to do it now?
And there were some
situations really on the edge, and yeah, talk to Greedy about it. I saw the video. I think this was the, this was maybe the most dangerous situation, maybe for him, I guess, because you cannot do anything about it. You kind of have to do this, this via Verrata, and I don't think this is cool. This is so, it's not that I don't like to climb the via Verrata, that's not the issue; it's just not really safe for everybody because sometimes the weather is like this, sometimes like this. Maybe this is, this is very important, and then the
more and more turn points, you get the
More, the route is is given, so you and it will always like stop the race for a moment, which makes it a little more thrilling to watch, and it's harder to break away. So maybe that's even a good thing, but not sure. So I liked it when there were not a lot of turn points, because this was like allowing a lot of freedom to choice routes and a lot of things, and I think this was also very exciting to watch. And yeah, I guess there there are a lot of things you can improve in a race like this, and it's
important to give the
To give the pilot a good to value the pilot, that's—that's very important, I think. And, and of course, you have to to value the sponsors also, because they give the money, they give the the possibility to do a race like this. But yeah, don't forget the pilot.
Like you said, I think, very eloquently, you said I think what often gets lost in the chatter and the complaints is understanding what it takes. But you've got to get that balance right, and I think that Tom and I had pretty similar views as what you're saying here. I think we've lost—we could, we could gain safety and adventure by removing turn points and and having more, you know. I remember in 20, I think it was 2015, when Nick Namens just started going off into space. I mean, he went so far north of where everybody else did with his block of cheese and his mom, you know, and it was awesome, and he made it, he kind of made it work, kind of didn't matter.
And then you interview, "What are you doing?" I don't, I'm just having fun, you know. And it was so cool. I mean, he went like three passes north of where everybody else did. What is he doing? You know, and I Remember what was it in 2017 with the lakes and Paul's route, you know, way south?
Super cool, super nice, super
Cool, yeah. So, and I think from a spectator standpoint too, that that's really fun, and at the same time, we also understand that that's where a lot of the money's coming from, you know, in these, in these turn point sponsors. So I get it, you know, I see it now, you know, working for the organization. I'm not involved in any of that, obviously. I'm involved in just videoing you guys, but it's, you know, it's, I understand how difficult it is. It is the greatest platform, you know, it is an incredible opportunity, but I agree with you on all points there. I think you can accomplish a few things with a few little changes that help everything
Certainly, the live tracking is a good start, but Simone, I've just so enjoyed watching you and spending time with you and delivering pizza to you. That was a blast, and oh...
That was really, really, Gavin, I have to say that. That was so nice because it was, I think, 35 or 40 kilometers on the road in the rain, and suddenly he really stopped by. I said, "I have pizza for you. I heard you ordered pizza." And I was like, "Fuck no, really, man." It was really good pizza.
And more, Chrigel got the shaft. I don't know if you saw that whole video that we produced from that, but Aaron was too generous, and Aaron and his supporters took a bunch. And I looked in the box right before I delivered it; two tiny little pieces, but it was great. His reaction was terrific; it was so much fun. But, well, one more question: I'm assuming you're going to do it again, is it still too early to know or
It's a little too early to know because, of course, I have to talk to my supporters. I, of course, need them if I want to do it again, and you always have to—you have, we all have a certain energy level, yeah? And like, we have energy, and you take a lot of energy and put it into Excel, and so there are always parts where the energy is missing. That's something you always have to consider, but I think if everything is right, I would love to do it again. That's
Good to hear, Simon. Thank you, I appreciate your time, and have fun there with Tommy at your school. And can't wait to see what you do next, but thanks for your time and thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate you.
Thank you for the invitation, thank you for the good question and everything, and also thank you for the good and really cool insights during the race, because now I watched some videos of you and you were really pulling, and this is something very cool, and you understand the race and you could cover it really good, so that was very nice to see this time that this was happening finally. More, I think we need more of this, like more coverage really, and like from people who really do understand the race, because it's not easy to understand and to bring it to the people. Thank you, I love it.
It's a great
Job, I really dig it. Thanks, Simone. Talk soon, bud.
cool if
You find the Cloudbase Mayhem valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher, or however you get your podcast; that goes a long ways and helps spread the word. You can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media. You can talk about it on the way to launch with your pilot friends; I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way. And of course, you can support us financially. This show does take a lot of time, a lot of editing, a lot of storage and music, and all kinds of behind-the-scenes costs. So, if you can support us financially, all we've ever asked for is a buck a show, and you can do that through a one-time donation through PayPal, or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out. We put a new show out every two weeks, so for example, if you did a buck a show and every two weeks, it'd be about $25 a year, so way cheaper than a magazine subscription.
And it makes all of this possible. I do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors; we get asked about that pretty frequently, but for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show, I don't want to do that. I don't like having that
Toxic business model, so I hope you dig that. You can support us if you go to Cloudbase Mayhem dot com; you can find the places to support. You can do it through patreon dot com forward slash Cloudbase Mayhem, if you want a recurring subscription. You can also do that directly through the website. We try to make it really easy, and that will give you access to all the bonus material, little video casts that we do, and extra little nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show, but we feel like you should hear. We don't put any of that behind a pay wall; if you can't afford to support us, then just let me know, and I'll set you up with an account. Of course, that'll be lifetime, and hopefully you're in a position someday to be able to support us, but you'll find all that on the website. All of you who have supported us, or even joined our newsletter, or bought Cloudbase Mayhem merchandise, t-shirts, or hats, or anything, you should be all set up.
You should have an account; you should be able to access all that bonus material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support, and we'll see you on the next show. Thank you.