Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. My guest today is Celine Lorenz, the only female who competed in this year's Red Bull X-Alps. She was a veteran. She competed for the first time in 23, but hurt her foot before that race even started. So had a tough race in 23, but hung in there as long as she could. And then this year, she had an amazing race and was a lot of fun to tie in with her at various points during the race and her wonderful team. We talk about how she chose her team and put that team together and how much fun they had. You all saw the footage, I'm sure, from her incredible adventure. I think it was day four or day five between DeSantis and the Neeson when she tried to make the same move that those in front of her had done over the Grimsel and didn't pull it off.
It was pretty strong lee that day and ended up on the wrong side of a river and contemplated having to get a helicopter because she was told from one of the local refugio owners that, oh, it's really beautiful down there, but you're never going to get out. But she did get out. There was a drone pilot in there from the organization who was able to capture a bunch of that. But she certainly got the gold for the wildest adventure in the race. You know, all. The athletes and all the teams are going to have some pretty wild adventures in the ex-Alps. And but hers was really remarkable and pretty, pretty wild to watch and to hear about. So we talk about that. We talk about risk, how she got into all this, how she trained differently this time around.
She's getting ready for the world right now. So life's moving along quite quickly. She was in her van when we did this and heading down to France to start training for the for the world. And then we talk about twenty seven. She's already getting excited for that. So happily for all of our all of the fans, we're going to be seeing Celine again in twenty seven and just a pleasure. And she's just got such a fabulous attitude and tell she and her team we're having so much fun. And we jump into all the aspects of what this race is and what it meant to her and what it means to fly like a woman. She put out a. Really cool post about that before she got started, and I just found her and her team very inspiring and a lot of fun, and it was great to observe from from the outside.
And this is a little more of the inside. Look, enjoy.
Celine, thanks for taking the time to sit down with me. Looks like you're traveling. You got your great little van there, and I'm excited to talk to you about your race and flying and life. How are you? Thank
you so much. Thank you so much that I can be here. I'm great. I'm now on my way to France with the van. And yeah, I'm also looking forward to talk with you now.
Is van home always or no?
Quite a lot. Yeah, I'm spending a lot of time on the road and a lot of time not at home. So, yeah, it's something like home. Yeah,
you you do tandems typically in the summer with Ernesto and those guys in Garmisch. Is that right?
Yeah. And now, like last summer and this summer, it's a bit less because always the slots where I block for tandems, it's always shit weather. But normally in summer, I either teach a bit and fly tandem.
How did you get into all this? I don't know your back story that much. You and I had a quick chat before the twenty three race and, you know, you told me about your your boyfriend, that crazy accident. So I know a little bit. But how did you get into all this?
Well, like no one of my family and no one of my friends in my childhood was flying, so I never really had a like a contact with that in the beginning. But for my eleventh birthday, I got a tandem flight as a present from my mom and because we were living close to Kirsten and it's always full with paragliders. So, yeah, I got that for birthday present as a surprise. And it's funny because. I think two or three weeks ago, I rewatched the video from my first flight and it was so cool. And I yeah, like this really sparked everything like this. Put yeah, it was just crazy, this feeling for me. And from that moment on, I collected every cent, every euro I got into my hands to be able to do the license when I was 15, 16 to be able to finance a license and my first equipment.
Because also at this. Time, I was working a lot already at the refuge of my mom. She has a refuge in the Alps and I always help there on the weekend. And I put a little box on the counter so that like with Celine's paraglider and so that people could put like some sense of yours in. And as soon as I had collected everything for your passion, yes, yes. And as soon as I had all the money, I went into the paradigm school. Like. With a bag full of like small money and I was like, here, I want to do my license. And they were like, are you sure you don't want to be like, have a look for one or two days to check it if you like? And I was like, no, I mean, yeah.
And then it all started and I just spent all my time in a paradigm school. I, I in the school, like in my real school, I said, I'm sick to be able to be on the training hill to fly. And yeah. And it was since then, how old are you now about flying? I'm 26.
26. So 15 years ago, right? Yeah. That's right. No,
no. 10, 10 years, 10
years. Okay.
10 years. I, I start like since 10 years, I'm flying my own, but 15 years I'm yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you were super, and you were living there in Cosa and you're in the, you're in the Kimsey zone. I mean, what a perfect place. I mean, what a perfect place to learn how to do this doesn't get much better.
Yeah, it's perfect. It's a very good area
to learn. Yeah. And then when did you get involved with NIVIUK?
With NIVIUK, I'm since 2022. Yeah.
Okay. And was that. Yeah, it
started 2022 and then. And
that was because of PWCs and racing? I mean, it wasn't for high compliance, right? Yeah.
Yeah. In the beginning.
I was a super fly in that year with the climber already. And then I also started to fly competition with the peak and yeah, and then everything came up. Yeah.
And before the, the 23 race, what was the, was the X-Alps always on your radar when, you know, was this something that was, that fascinated you from the beginning and you were working towards, or was it more? Oh, I think I should just do this kind of. Yeah.
It was like when I started paragliding in 2015 and the paragliding school, there was always like, it was at around the time of X-Alps. There was always the live tracking of the X-Alps in the, in the room. And we were always like, it was already there when I started paragliding in that summer. And there was like, oh, it's crazy what they do. And it's, it's crazy. It's unreachable. And I never thought that I going to be part of that. And for sure I, it would have been cool. Like I thought for sure it can be cool to be part of that, but it was like something where I thought I can never reach that. It's too far away.
And then, yeah, now I'm was in the X-Alps already the second time. It's crazy. Crazy.
It's so cool.
Yeah. And you, I
don't know that many people know this about you. I, I certainly didn't. I know you've got a huge background in acro, but you, you know, whenever I tied in with your team, both times last time, but especially this time I spent more time with your team and you, you know, on days that weren't great. You're like day two, that kind of thing. You know, when I asked them how, you know, how's she doing? How's her head space? You know, what's going on? And they always say, it's great. It's awesome. And then she's, and you are just, yeah, I've, I've got the, I mean, you're a very confident pilot. Is that your acro background or, I mean, you didn't seem, I have very often seen athletes in these races who have been pretty overwhelmed and you never seemed overwhelmed.
You seem like that was, this was just your jam. You were digging it.
No, for sure. It's also, it gets mental in situations like this. And day two of this year's edition was, it was tough in some moments. Just after the takeoff, I had a really sketchy situation, just close to a rocky face. And there I was really quickly, like it was very short or how do you say, I don't know. I was really thinking like, I just stopped. I was, it was really, really close to the, to the wall. The way I got a collapse. And, but I managed and I had a little cascade, but it was okay. And there was like, okay, now I just look for a safe landing.
And then I would just like breathe a bit and I found the focus again. And then I went around the corner. I was like thinking like, where am I now? I'm fully on the Lee. Okay. That's, that's why this happened. And then I could explain for sure. It was also maybe. Awesome. So the phone was not the best moment to fly, but I could found like, I could, I know why I had wasn't the situation. And then I just went to the good place. I found a good time. And then I breathed a few times and then it was all good again. I found the focus again. And then I was like, yeah, it's all good. And it feels good. And then I continued and then I found the focus and it was really good.
I mean, you just, I
don't know. For sure. I think also the Acro helps for sure. If you know how to handle a wing and a lot of situations for sure that helps.
23, you had a disappointing early exit cause your foot and I'm curious what you learned from that, what you changed going into this one is it certainly seemed, I was just talking about this with Simone who just did his fifth one and you know, coming in as a rookie is super, it's just so much, I mean, there's so much anyway as a veteran, but there's so much, uh, I imagine, you know, there's lots of things that you could go, yeah, I would do that differently. But what was, how did you approach this time, this addition differently than the first time?
On the first time I really like, I really trained too much because I was always like comparing myself with all these kids. And I knew that I'm not like body wise and on my feet, not that strong then as the guys. So I was really comparing too much, even if it, if there's no room for comparison. Um, but there I trained too much and I had already some pain in my hips on the last exercise because it was a bit over and over training. And I also broke my back six months before the start of the race. Oh, I didn't know that. What happened? No, it was a compression break. It was not with metal inside, but at a compression break.
And this, this was all adding, like I was, yeah, not in the best shape for the 23. Um, how'd
you break your back? What happened?
Um, I was flying with the echo wing and I'm not also not on a really good day and it was a bit bumpy. And then I just came in for landing a bit in the lee side and it pushed me down a bit. And it was just a lot of sink. And I thought, oh yeah, I can break it. And I didn't went out of the harness completely to, to stop the impact with my legs. And I was like crashing with the, it was nothing. Yeah. So
it was minor, but it still affected training and stuff. Do you, do you use a trainer or do you do it all yourself?
Yeah, I have a trainer in Innsbruck. Okay. Oh,
great. I find that helps
a lot.
And for
this time. Yeah. Yeah. And for this time I changed that. I also listen more to my body. If I feel like something is a bit hurting, I just put a break and listen more to my body and don't come into overtraining. That was a big focus of myself to not do too much, to be really in, in everything I can give for the race.
Right before. I can't really remember the exact timing of this. I don't know if it was before the prologue or for the main race, but I was following your feed and I don't know how much of that is you doing that or you had a media person. I wasn't sure, but you, you had a post that said fly like a woman. What does that mean to you? I loved that. But what does that mean? I mean, it's gotta be intimidating. I would think, you know, it's you and all the guys in this race.
What does that mean to you?
It means to me. To, to like also try to empower a woman to fly and to, to that, to empower them if they want to do something that they should go for it and that they, yeah, should just, um, believe in themselves and also try new things. And if they want to try something tricky, because some guys say like, ah, but you think you should do that? They should just go and do it. Hmm. Even if they are a woman, you know what I mean? Okay.
So ignore the chatter. Go with, go with your, what you feel on the inside. Yeah.
If they feel good. Yeah. Yeah. They should go for it.
Hmm. I like that. You, I got to spend a really wonderful hour with your team in St. Moritz. I think you had just left. You were heading back up to launch and I talked Teresa into having a beer. You, they weren't supposed to, but we had a really nice afternoon together. How did you choose your team? How did the, you know, she's not a pilot. I guess you guys went to school together in Innsbruck. She is lovely by the way. My gosh. Uh, what, what does, uh, how'd you choose your team and was it, how was it, was it different than in 23?
Uh, yeah, it was a bit different. The only one who was already in there in 2023 was Tim, Tim Ungewitter. Um, but I really kept an eye on this time that everyone is super motivated. And I, that I also know them personally and that I already have a connection with them. So we can also handle stressful situations when it gets tricky, when everyone is tired and pissed maybe. And so it's better to handle that if you already know the person a bit, I think. Um, and I really kept an eye on that. I have really motivated and good people for me. And with Teresa, she's an angel. Really? She's from heaven. Yeah.
I met her. Yeah. I met her in Innsbruck. Um, when I, I, we had a co-location there together, she studied and I did my, um, uh, like I was working as a pastry chef in Innsbruck and yeah, it was a really good time. And yeah, she's just such a good person. And I really wanted to have her in my team. Like she called me like, yeah, I'm not flying. But. And I'm planning my holidays for this summer. And do you think it's like, can be an option that I'm part of your team? And I was like, yeah, for sure. I was so happy that she asked me. And yeah. She is an angel. I'm
really grateful
for everyone. You could just tell her energy
is just, I just wanted to wrap her up every time I saw her. She's so lovely.
Yeah. Yeah. And it was for everyone in my team. I really like, I'm super grateful and everyone is good in their own stuff. And we were just, it was like a puzzle. It was really good.
Take, take us through. Cause I, I, you know, these are the unsung heroes, right? And when I talked about how important it is with Simone and as a former athlete, I know how important it is. It's these people are so critical to your success. Who, who all, how many did you have and what were their roles?
I had five supporters with me. It was Tim Ungewitter. He was the main supporter. Um, he was there to like have the overview. He like wasn't like with the routing, he was looking for the weather and that was his main job. Then, uh, I had Noé Cour, a Swiss guy. He was also, he was so good. He was routing a lot and he was hiking with me and kicking my ass on that.
He's a really good hike and fly athlete. Isn't it? Right?
Yeah. Cool. You say
it differently than I would say. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Wow. Oh, he'd be, he'd be fantastic.
Yeah. He's the best. Yeah. Then Anton Zürke. He was also like, he was mainly also running with me and hiking and being my Sherpa.
And then I had Daniel with me also. He was there with the camera and, um, doing content and for social media. And Teresa, she was a physio and the good soul team in cooking and yeah.
Morale. She was there with the truck.
Yeah. Yeah. And then Tim and Teresa both were also driving the cars and yeah, it was very good. And I also had, um, Raynald in Switzerland. He was doing the meteo for us every evening. We had a, every evening we had a meteo. Just who gave us a big overview of the weather and of where we were and what could be the option for the next day for the route where we go to. And yeah.
How was that? Did you enjoy that? Did, is it, did it help?
It helped. Yeah. Because we spend less time to have our like forecast for the next days. Um, it was cool to have it, but for sure the weather is always like where you are now and you look outside. It's always a bit different than in the forecast. The forecast is still the forecast, but it was good to have, it was good to make a, already a plan for the next day to have like a little overview. Yeah. So it was helpful. Yeah.
I didn't have one in, in, in 2015, which was my best year, my first time. And then I learned that, uh, Gaspard Pettio had, had one and it was a guy that had done it since the very beginning. He'd done it for some teams since 2003, Laurent, and he was amazing. And he worked for meteo France. He lived in Chamonix and really understood the race. But how you process that information, I think is really, you know, in, in 2017, both Gaspard and I used him and Gaspard used it to his advantage. And for me, it didn't work at all. It was, it was really interesting because it would put, well, it's supposed to be like this in my head and it removed what I'm naturally good at, uh, which is reading the sky and doing my thing. And it, it, we, we did it again.
In 2019. And then I didn't do it in 21 that not, it doesn't have anything to do with the results, but it was, it was interesting because I, I actually didn't enjoy it. I, it didn't work for me. And that was, I think probably my own weakness, but, uh, yeah, I kind of liked, I liked it better when my team was doing it, you know, cause they know me really well and they know how, when I, I tend to do better when it's nasty. And so when it's nasty, they would, you know, they wouldn't say directly, it's going to be nasty, but I could just tell. And it was, um, you know, rather than having the forecast, it just sounded impossible. Uh, anyway, it was, it was, that was an interesting thing for me, but because I just talked to Simone yesterday on the podcast, this is kind of fresh in my mind, but you know, he's done so well, all five, he's never, he's always been sixth or better.
Uh, so he's kind of cracked the X-Alps code, if you will. He was saying one of the most important things is knowing your strengths and playing to your strengths. Chrigel talks about this as well. And Thomas Terlo, who he, who he worked with for years said, you know, it's, you have to work on your weaknesses, but you really have to play to your strengths. What are your strengths? What are you, what, where are you strong?
I think I'm strong in, um, in being like a friend of mine. She said it like, I'm like a Husky. She compared me like this. I'm not like a wind dog. I'm not super fast. I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not so fast with my legs, but I'm like a Husky. I keep on going, even if it's shit and heart, like I'm just fighting through. Yes. Even if I, if my body hurts, like I'm getting just, I'm just keep on going like a tractor.
That's my strengths. I can just bite through a lot I think. And yeah, for sure. Also my, my flying is, I think I'm confident with my flying also. Yeah.
when it's rowdy and it's on the edge, that's a strength is you're it doesn't freak you out. You you've got it. I mean, obviously paragliding is scary sometimes, but it's, uh, I think that's important to be strong in those situations because you're, it's very, very rarely recreational flying in this race.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. It is sometimes it's really scary and sketchy situations, but then, um, I think I'm good in trying and keeping the focus or getting the focus back and, um, just try to focus on the moment and to be like as safe as possible. Yeah.
Anybody who saw the race and even anybody who tuned in for very little time knows about your epic adventure, uh, heading in towards, I don't know what that, the vice horn, something horn and you know, the east of, of Iger, uh, you know, so you're over the FERCA and you're heading towards the Nissan turn point. So, uh, anyone can go back. It was listening to this and see, you know, Red Bull did a great clip on it and there's all kinds of drone footage. It was just, you had an epic, that was unbelievable. I mean, of all the people in this race, you had the greatest adventure, I would say. And you know, when, when they did the interview with you, you said a lot of things like, ah, it was shit and it was fucked. And, um, but I imagine, I imagine now that type three fun has probably changed and you're probably glad you had that adventure.
What I don't know is what happened, you know, what, did the, was it cloudy? Did you miss a thermal? How did you end up down there?
It was, um, yeah, a tricky day. Like normally it was starting quite well. I had some good thermals. The cloud base was a bit low, but I tried to get everything as what I could get. And I also, I took the route, which every guy took, um, or a lot of guys took. And, um, I went, wanted to win for the same. It was at Grimsel Pass. To cross over Grimsel Lake and then, um, continue flying to Nyssen. And yeah, I knew that, uh, Chrigel also did it a bit lower and he could catch something. And I was not that high on the crossing and I was like, okay, I keep on going.
I go for it. But I, I didn't really thought about the fact that the guys who took that route went there earlier in the day. Like on the timing, so I didn't calculate. Like, I knew that Grimsel is windy, it's known for that, and but yeah, it was windier as I expected. So, but I thought, like, "Ah, I go in the lee side because there was a very nice cloud, uh, above that ridge where I wanted to cross over," and I was like, "Yeah, I need to work. Like, this cloud is building, it looks perfect, like a, like, picture-perfect, uh, thermal cloud building up." And I was like, "Yeah, this, the lee side needs to work. It's a really good day." It was really strong also, so I was like, "Yeah, it needs to work." But the lee side was, was just flushing me down, and because I was like, "Yeah, should I go to the north and with the wind and then catch it and take the thermal?" Or I tried to decide it, yeah.
It was really bad, and I was just, see, like I just saw the lake and all like rocky and all full of trees. There's not really a track, like the track is going in the trees, so it just pushed me down. And then the moment where you already like know that you go a bit more in front in your harness, and you're really intentionally like, ah, it was really, yes, and it was just really not nice. And then I thought like, yeah, it needs to work like this clouds, and it's all right, but snow, it was really just like the deepest sound I could ever hear from the value was there, like really like, and then yeah, I was really not so nice, and I could see also the wind with the trees in the valley or with the bushes, and then I was not really thinking of
Like, not really looking for the tracks, I was just looking for a safe landing there in the valley. And I went there; it was a small little field with some beautiful purple and not purple, turquoise, um, glacier lakes. And I was like, "Yeah, it looks pretty. It looks good. It's not like, it's safe, the best place in the lee side, yeah, to land," because the other side was a bit rocky and also really windy. So I was like, "Yeah, I land there safe." And then, in the first moment, I didn't realize that it's a really shit place that I'm stuck there. And then I restarted the search to cross the river there from like a glacier river, and it was a really strong river also because it's a very huge glacier there in the back with a lot of water.
And we searched so long, and we tried to find a path in the front and close to the lake because I thought the river is spreading there, so the energy is more spread and it's better to cross there. No, and I also already thought to swim in the lake, but was so much like currents, and I was like, "No, and it's super cold." Then we like, I then I got a call from one of the ex-alps orga. He was like, "Yeah, are you safe?" And they said like, "Yeah, you, you cannot really exit there. Are you really sure you're safe?" And I said, "Yeah, I tried to find a way." And then it was funny because then I was hearing like a drone, and I was like, I couldn't see anything, and then I saw this drone and I was just waving, and I didn't know from who it was, if it was from the orga or from a tourist or from someone, but it was funny because in this moment I didn't feel so alone.
I was like, "Oh yeah, someone sees me, yeah, yeah."
They know I'm out here.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not alone. And then, yeah, then the local guy from the refuge there in the valley called me, and he said, like, "Swiss and Swiss Dutch and Swiss German dialect," he said to me, like, "Yeah, you landed in a beautiful place, but you never get out of there again. Enjoy."
You're trapped, but have a nice look around. Yeah,
So we were really close to call the helicopter, and I was like, "No, there needs to be a way." And then we said, like, he said the only option is maybe to go all the way back to the glacier and to find a way there. And because we already also thought to climb up on the side of Murine, or how do you say that, on the side of the glacier, Murine, yeah. Um, but there was so much rock fall, so it was really bad because it was a thought to climb up the Murine and just fly over the river to the other side and land there and go out. But it was crazy, like, the rock fall was crazy. And then we just went all the way back to the to the glacier, and so really not so good because it was that my supporters then also came into the valley, and they were on the other side of the river, and the good side was the path, and we couldn't really talk to each other.
We were screaming, but it was too loud, we couldn't hear us, so we couldn't communicate. And then we tried to call, but there was no connection anymore, so we just tried to find something, and then we went all the way back. It was seven kilometers or something, and Then we found like a bit sketchy bridge of rocks and was, yeah, a bit sketchy, but we could cross it. And then, uh, yeah, we made it, yeah. And we were super happy, but it took us seven hours in total to exit that valley. Wow, and I would have never thought that. I was like, we are in the Alps, there are tracks everywhere, there's some people everywhere normally, yeah.
It's not—it is remarkable how deep it can get, even in the Alps, you know that was... did you? But it's cool, that route, the Grimsel. I don't know what we even call that, but I was up on the Neeson that day when Chrigel and, you know, Chrigel pushed in there first and then kind of had to turn around and come back out, and the rest of the group caught him up. But was that the plan for you all? I mean, I didn't do a lot of route study this time because I wasn't competing, so but when I was on the Neeson and I saw him doing that, I went, "What? What is this line?" That just wasn't on my radar at all. Maybe if I'd studied there... I mean, it's obvious, it's direct, and but was that the plan originally?
Yeah.
i was
okay i
had it in my like, I had it, but I was not sure if it works. And then the guys in front did it, but for sure it works, but the guys in front did it and it worked really well. So, okay, that was cool, yeah.
I, I, I blew the commentary on that one before that, because I thought, you know...
I was like, "Oh my god, I'm not"
They would go either back door into Grindelwald, or or stay with the feast line and then up and over at Loiker, or something. I just, I didn't have that on my radar. That was very cool, but as you proved, also not without its
Selene, uh, and you could do either 23 or 25, but give me the the ultimate best memory and the worst memory—are the high and low from your two campaigns—and maybe they could both be from this race, I guess, but whatever, whatever pops into your mind.
the worst from this uh years was on day two, where it was just with the phone on the after the takeoff of the first flight, like of the flight on day two, I was really, it was really, it was I had a really big collapse with falling in the east side. It was not good.
So that was the worst. Wait, wait, is this from when I saw you up at Sexton, that flight, or the next one?
the next
one next one, because that... that looked lovely from the sexton. Everybody that launched, yeah, this was great. Yeah, okay, no
It was actually okay. It was the second flight on, okay, day two, okay? Yeah, so this, yeah, was the worst. I could also say the landing there in the valley because it cost me a lot of time, but there I was feeling better than when I got the collapse. So, and the best moment was, I think, landing in it was really cool. It was really nice because we had a good day. My team was happy. There were some people. I had some pastry afterwards. It was a really good vibe. It was a really cool moment there, and so, oh, that
You mean going on the way out? You, you had a huge flight that day. You took off from Morano and made it all the way to Saint Moritz, right?
Yes, yes, yeah, it was a super nice day. Yeah, wicked, it was day three. Yeah, yeah.
That was a... but that was a really phenomenal flight. I mean, you did that in like five or five and a half hours. You were cruising
Yeah, it was really cool. Yeah, it was really good. Yes, I really enjoyed that day. Yeah, it was really good, and on the 23
For sure, I don't know if I can also count the pre-weekdays in this because I twist my ankle in the preview, so this was a really bad moment of that. Oh, I forgot that. That's right, you
did that before
I just, I twisted my ankle in the pre-week. Yeah, I forgot about the shooting. No, pre-shooting. Oh god, yeah, that's just a mental
crusher, you're just going, "Oh, what have I done? So much effort, yeah."
Yeah, and one of the best moments
The 23 was when I first... I fucked up a flight from Achental towards Lermos. I had the first flight, I was really a lot of east wind and I bombed out in the intel. And then the flight afterwards towards Gamish was really nice because I just had one thermal, like I made, I think, 1500 height meters just in one thermal straight up, like in one group. And then I flew to Gamish, to my home, and there were so many people. I know, I think when I was walking through Gamish, we were like a bubble of 20 people walking through Gamish.
And yes, and that was really cool. That was a really cool moment to have all my friends there and everyone cheering and yeah, it
Was cool, is it? How much of a advantage, disadvantage is it to know it place? Yeah, it was. It was, it's, it's interesting that you know, like Aaron Durogati, this time his knowledge of a place in Morano really kind of hurt him there. You know, he, he, he decided to go to the standard launch, which was really in the lee on that day too. You know, pretty ferocious fern conditions, and yeah, it was just a bad call, and it hurt him. It didn't end up, obviously, hurting him that bad; he won the race. But, uh, you know, the people who weren't from there did what was logical. They went over on the windward side, on the other side of the valley, and you know, still strong, still pretty exciting flying, but it, it was the right thing to do.
And we see that a lot, right? We see it all the time in the World Cup. We always talk about, you know, it's never the local hero that wins; it's somebody that doesn't know the place. But how, um, I'm curious because the Alps are so big, you know, this route is so big. I mean, you can't be an expert on the whole thing. Well, maybe, maybe if you're Chrigel and run it this many times. But how much, you know, like being really knowledgeable about the Kimsey and Intel, like I'm not sure I'm saying that right, and Garmish, that area, Lermoust, does that really help you think? It really hurts.
For me, it hurts. Interesting, I'm also not a big fan of scouting your route a lot before the race because it's so much different in the race, and a valley can be so different, and it's so much different, and it's so much different in the race, and it's so different in so many different weather situations. So you can be there in the spring and scout it, and you have like super strong thing spring thermals, and then you can be there in the excels and it's or it's rainy or like a mix of whatever, and then it's completely different. So I'm not a huge fan of scouting and knowing the place very well. For me, I'm also more a fan of going somewhere and fly logical and just use what you have there at the moment.
And also on the 23 edition on Steinplatte in Austria, normally that's also like kind of a home spot, and I was also flying the
normal route, which is always flown, and where I was already flying a lot, and I bummed out, yeah. And it was hurting myself a lot also, so I really like to fly on places which I'm not really know. Like, I was not flying a lot before, because then you just take what you have at the moment, and I think you should always fly like this, but at the moment, like in the valleys, you already know it's different. What
Kind of headspace do you try to bring to the race you from what you learned in '23? Uh, one of the things I have found fascinating is, I, I'm almost kind of an historian of the race now at this point. I've watched so many years, and then I did it, and then now I'm on the other side doing the media side of things. But I, I think it's fascinating that I used to always make the argument that the reason Chrigel was so dominant was because he has so much experience in all the things. Yeah, he was an acro champion, he was a World Cup champion, you know, he, he's ferocious about his training. I mean, he's, he's got the greatest tools, right, in his toolbox, but
Again and again, we're seeing that, you know, it's not necessary to be a World Cup pilot. You know, Paul Guschlbauer has never been a World Cup pilot, Tom de Dorlodot, uh, Simone O'Browner doesn't do World Cups, and Tommy, and you know, maybe they do them every once in a while. I don't follow them that closely, but you know, it's not—I used to always think that it was really important to know how to fly really fast in the race on those good days. You know, we saw that in 2013 with Chrigel and Aaron and just stomping out front that first day down the Pin Scout, but um, that doesn't seem to be in in when I look at my own races. I think that hurt me being a World Cup pilot. I, you know, I don't do a ton of World Cups, but for the last 10 plus years, I've done quite a few, and I think what often really hurt me in the X-Ops was flying too fast, you know, was was not just doing everything I could to stay in the air and can you know, getting impatient, and Simone talked about that, that that's that's kind of his key is just being so patient and just flying really slow sometimes and making sure you stay in the air.
Anything like that for you is there is there because you're a World Cup pilot, you know how to fly really fast. You know, you're going down right now to train on your X1 for the Worlds, um, helps, hurts? Do you have to just totally shift your mindset? I
Think it's like, good if you can learn how to switch your mindset. Um, it's cool to learn in the World Cup, and with competition, you can learn to like, to you can learn better to read the air. I think because you have maybe a plan in your head, if that could work or that could work, and then you have like 100 people there, you see the air, and then you're like, "Oh yeah, could my plan work?" And what I maybe think in front, and then you have a lot of people who show you if it could have worked or not. So you learn a bit to read and faster, I think, in comps, and better than when you just go and fly alone or with your friend. Um, but for sure, you also need to shift, and that is also was a bit my problem was on this time that sometimes I was not patient enough.
There were where I was a bit too much in the competition mode from, yeah, and I was like, "Oh no, like go back into the hike and fly mode, be more patient." Scratch stay like, it doesn't matter how long you stay on this place, and you search, if you find something, you're way faster, and you're more patient, and you're more patient, and you're faster by scratching you one hour, and then you are able to cross the ridge, or you'll bump out now, and you have to work around this ridge. It's just way longer. So yeah, it's, I think it's the competition flying can help a lot to learn for, um, X-ups or hike and fly races, but you need to be able to switch, and I think that's what Chrigel is good in, like he has his tools, but he has a really strong mind, and he can
be strong with his mind and with switching the modes, what
What part of this flying game thrills you the most? What do you like the best? Acro, World Cups, I can fly, camaraderie, the community... what is it? I
Think it's the mix of everything that it's so, like, so you have so many sides of paragliding. It's for me, I think I could not just stay in comflying, I could not just be full on hike and fly, I could not just fly full on acro, and I really like the mix of playing with the air and with the wing and with, um, yeah, just, yeah, do so much different stuff with the wing in the air. It's for me, it's what's really attractive to, yeah, to do. It's really cool.
You had the minor back injury before, uh, uh, six months, I think, before 23. Have you had other accidents? No.
like, it's was the biggest what I heard on my body and flying. I never broke a bone or anything, some twisted ankle or some scratches from some bad landings, but never broke anything. What do
You, what do you chalk up that to? That safety, you, you, you know that that's pretty good. A lot of people have been pretty hurt in this sport. What, what is your approach, um, I
Always like, when it gets sketchy, I'm feeling like not really safe. Like, I'm always thinking like, okay, in the end of the day, I still want to be safe on the ground with my team in the excels or whatever, with my family back home. When I'm coming back from a competition, I'm always having the thought like, okay, I want to sit there, have a dinner with them. So, what should I do now to be to be able to do that? Or so, sometimes it's more safe to go and be like, okay, maybe I'm slower with this, but yeah. And I just really, when it gets sketchy, I try to just be in the moment and not try to stress, because when you stress and you just be like, "Oh, what the fuck?" You don't have the situation, and you just need to look around.
What do you have in which situation are you really? Like, are you in a d? Are you like, you know, how is the clouds? How's the wind? And yeah, it's hard to say, yeah. But I try to keep the focus and to always prefer to be happy on the ground with my friends than pushing a bit more to, yeah, there
Was a lot of chatter in this race on the social media side of things about the risk, you know, that it's become more of a gladiator thing rather than an adventure thing, and I think that's a great thing to do. And I'm sure I don't buy much of that, I'm gonna be honest with you, just be straight up, but I'd like to get your take. How do you, how do you manage your own risk in this race? And I, I don't know if you were privy to any of that, you know, as athletes, you guys are busy, uh, and I wasn't much either. I was hearing this kind of through the grapevine, and but then after the race I saw a lot of comments. You know, there's a lot of armchair viewers who have, who are pilots, you know, and they understand, but everything
Is seen now, it didn't used to always be seen. It was the helicopter flying around, and it was more craft, it was a more crafted message now with the teams. Like yourself, you have your own media people, everything goes out or can't, uh, and so people see a lot more. And so, I anyway, I, what's your take on all on on that side of things? But also for your own per, you know, how do you feel after the race? Uh, do you think that was too much, or you know, this is really on the edge, or is it all fine? I
Think like, I'm happy with my own decisions. I think for myself, I didn't took too much risk and I, for me, I took safe decisions because I think also in general, the athlete itself is can take decision, can take the decision if he's taking off or not. He like, the guys are very experienced and they can look in the air and they see in what they probably take off into. And but, for example, day two on the exact and also in the end of day one with the thunder, I think it was quite on the edge, um, when
you, I just saw some videos and
For me, that's maybe also, maybe it's a bit risky to say, but it's also a bit, um, how do I say it right in English? It's maybe also a bit driven by the testosterone of the man, um, who is now pushing more and, um, has the bigger balls. I don't, I'm sorry to say it in that way, but, um, yeah, sometimes I think it's also a part, for sure, and that can get very, but on the edge, and I just hope that nothing more serious is gonna happen in the next editions. But, um, yeah, for sure, every athlete is responsible for their own decisions; they can, they see in what they're gonna take off.
And if I think, if you put more rules, it takes a bit the type of like the adventure. In the end, it's the adventure race, but maybe there should be a shift in general for the pilots, um, to also say no, um, to shit conditions, because yeah, it was just shit conditions, but
What I'm hearing from you is, it's not—it's not really on the organization to control these things; it's really to fly is always a personal decision, right?
Yeah, it's for me; it should not be from the organization side. I'm glad
to hear you
the race you
know it would be a huge, it would not be the Red Bull X-Alps, you know, if you and no, this is my main argument, it just your
wouldn't be
the same thing; it'd be a different race, no?
Yeah, that's true. And for me, I think there should—there really need to be a switch in the brains of the guy, like of the guys who do this risky stuff, because I don't know what's like... some there were some really sketchy situations. And yeah, sometimes for me, it's for sure they're really skilled pilots also, um, but sometimes you can be skilled, but it's also a lot of luck, sure. Yeah, sometimes and
It was interesting. Uh, I had this conversation with Tom de Dordo just a week ago about this exact thing, and you know, so he was with, you know, David's launch that went super viral. He was with that group, and then he was later with some of those, you know, some of the guys that took off in Morano when it was—it was screaming. It was really, really, really strong, and uh, you know, and most of those launches did not end up going out; they were kept private. But he had them, uh, and I got to see some of them, and you know, Patrick von Cannell made it look really good, and that's just skill. It was—it was just as rowdy for him as it was for the couple pilots who did it before and after, and I've talked to those pilots too, and they've all said, "Yeah, he had better skills than than I did," but I mean, he—he just made it look easy, you know?
And uh, I think that's what every athlete has to work towards, right? You know that, okay? That this is on the edge, but I—I have this move, not—I hope I have this move, that's a very different thing. Uh, you know, I would, yeah. I would have been one of those going, I hope I have this move.
For sure, like, skills help in the situations, but um, for sure, and but sometimes also the most skilled pilots can sure have a collapse close to the ground percent, yeah? You don't know before, yeah.
I mean that the Superfinal that they had in Disentis a few years ago, you know, I heard all kinds of stories of re good pilots getting away with, yeah, you sounded like luck in some cases. So, yeah, you can still go sideways. Uh, I don't know if you've thought about this yet, still pretty fresh, but what are you thinking about 27? I'm
Thinking about 27 already, yes. And I'm already thinking of what I could change. What I awesome, I would like, um, for now I still didn't have a break and I saw summer a bit and I trained for the world championships now, but I'm already also having an eye on 27. awesome
So there was never any doubt you were, you're excited about doing it again.
For sure, like when you're in the race and it's hard, sometimes you're thinking, "Why am I doing this?" But then, yeah, I... I, yeah, I really enjoy it also. Yeah, so I'm looking forward... I don't never know, like, it's still two years. I don't know what's coming, but yeah, there's
A lot of things that make this race special, as we both know there's a lot of things. You know, one of the things that I always just would kind of blow my mind is the places you find yourself in at certain times of the day, you know, that you would just never be doing if you weren't in the race. You wouldn't be on some launch over beautiful Morning Glory at six o'clock and just the most peaceful life, you know? And I think that's what I'm looking forward to, and I think that's what I'm amazing easy, and you wouldn't be flying around Mont Blanc when it's gnarly and ripping, and yeah, just a lot of—there's a lot of things. So you, you find yourself in these amazing places, but it's also just everything else: the training and the preparation and the team and the special. But is there anything that
Really draws you back. What's the most addicting thing about this race for you personally? You know, when you're thinking about 27, what gets you most excited? Yeah,
For me, it's really, as you already said, like this moment where you would have never find yourself if you would not join the race. It's like this hikes you would probably never do, the takeoffs where you end up, and the flights you have. It's, it's just different with the xabs, and that's really what keeps me going to do it. It's, it's so beautiful, for sure. It's a lot of work around with your team, with sponsors, and with to manage everything, and before, it's like it takes all your time. Um, but to have this reward with all these nice moments also, it's, it's so huge, and this is what keeps me going. Yeah, so
Uh, sounds like more Red Bull X-Alps boxes to check for you, Celine. Thank you so much; I have really been looking forward to talk to you about this, you know, after the race, after it settled a little bit, but I so much enjoyed like catching up with you in a few places during the race and your team and what an amazing campaign. Like I said, you definitely had the best adventure of anybody, I think it was. That was awesome, uh, and amazing footage. Those of you who are listening who haven't seen that, go back and dig through it. It's really incredible to see what, Celine. What I don't remember what day that was, four or five or something, but four I guess, and
We'll stay five, okay?
Five, okay? Yeah, excellent stuff, good stuff. But good luck in your preparation for the Worlds, best of luck there. I've got the the my competition here in Utah that same time, so I unfortunately can't go to the Worlds this year. I would have loved to, but have fun and, uh, good luck, and can't wait to see you again in in '27. But I'm sure I'll see you before then somewhere along the line, but thank you.
Thank you so much for having me, and it was really nice to talk with you. Thank you so much, if
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