Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. Got a great show for you today with Galen Kirkpatrick, a good friend of mine who has been at this game for a bit and has come all the way up through various aspects, SIV and towing people and instructing and now guiding. And she's also been pretty fiercely competitive on the competition circuit. She did her first World Cup with me not too long ago in Axaray in Turkey. Had a pretty crazy mid-air there, but actually had some great results in that one. And this last year has just taken off. She's up in the stratosphere. She's just doing so well at these competitions.
Beginning with a couple of comps right before the Worlds this last year out in Brazil in the Pan Ams. And I think the British had some great tasks there and then had a pretty interesting incident, not in the sky, but on the ground, getting ready for the Worlds. And she would call it kind of a nervous breakdown. So we get into that and the outcome of that and working with Maxime Bellemin and as their coach at the Worlds and just creating kind of a whole new paradigm shift, A whole new she calls a lore around her flying, and the results have been impressive. Since then, she was third overall, and Chelan behind Russ Ogden and Matt Henzie.
She won the Red Rocks wide open, which put her in first place. Us net, she's our new U.S. national champion, a new precedent there. And then she was just third down at the Monarca last month again in the overall, so she's... she's had some amazing results and is flying shit hot, and really has been impressive and inspiring to watch. So we get into all of that. Now it all started out in Santa Barbara, getting into flying and then getting into instructing and then getting into SIV and acro and all the things that have gotten to where she is. But mostly that's the mental switch. And we talk a lot about that. Great conversation with a great gal.
Wow. A lot of what this one, and I know you will too. Enjoy.
Galen, finally, how long have we been trying this for four or five, six years before you were famous even?
Oh, yeah.
We've been trying to get together for four or five months since the
Red Rocks. We have a lot to talk about, especially with your last year with just the new national champion. You're wearing your medals there, I love it. Uh, so we'll talk about how you got to this place, but let's let's dive into some background first. How did you get to this place? What was the—give me the give me the resume version of Galen's flying career getting to this year.
Yeah, I, um, I started in Santa Barbara about six or, I guess it was seven years ago now. So I actually did a one-day lesson with Andy McRae up in Bozeman, and I was like, Andy, when am I going to get back here and learn how to fly properly? And he was like, you know what? You should just go to Eagle. It's close to where you live. And then two weeks later, I was signed up for the P2 program. Was it
just the instant hitch? What was the catalyst? Why did you want to get into it in the first place? Was it just looking up in the sky or was this something you'd always wanted to do?
You know, I've always wanted to fly. And I got really close a couple of times to doing my private pilot's license. and I'd always dreamed of free flight. I just thought it was the coolest thing, but I was never on the right position in my life and financially, and so I was 27 at the time, and it was just like, this is the time, it's now. I got a... I wasn't super happy in life. I was living in downtown LA, and I wasn't being outside much, and so it was just like a way to connect with this new medium and be out and nature and totally thrilling. And when
you did the first stuff in Santa Barbara, which is a nice place to learn, you know, it's beautiful and the ocean and the mountains and the communities amazing there was just instantly I love this or was it scary or how do you remember those first days?
Yeah, no, it was instantly incredible. I was like, I was working like kind of a stressful high demand job so I felt like in a life sense I was really keyed in and Yeah. And it was, it was just a place for me to use that energy. And I had incredible instructors and, uh, yeah, it was just instantly, I was like, wow, this is incredible. There wasn't really much fear starting out. Cause I didn't really know what I didn't know, but that came, that came along
as it does. And I know the answer to this, cause we were just talking about doing this show a couple of weeks ago down in Columbia, but at some point you transitioned. You're one of the few, there's not a lot of people I think in the sport who also make their living from the sport. You are one of those people. When did that happen? When did you throw away old life and begin new life?
That happened about a year. And so I, I learned in Santa Barbara and spent a couple months like traveling up to Santa Barbara on my two weekends off every month and trying to get like thermic flights, and I ended up on a Columbia tour with Eagle paragliding my first winter, like three or four months into flying, and I was like, "Wow, this is incredible." I definitely, I'm very afraid, and I need to like become an expert at this. Listening to your podcast was really helpful while I would be stuck in LA traffic. And so I kind of made the plan my first week in Columbia to work my job for another year and then quit and spend like five weeks in Columbia.
Wow. So it happened, yeah, about a year, a year and a half. And you dove in hard. Yeah.
And you began teaching at the training hill, right? You got into teaching, and then towing, and working with Dylan, and talk about some of that stuff because I know it impacted a lot with the pilot you've become. You know, you're—you spend a lot of time still do acro, you know, and training acro, and and all that.
Yeah, I am... well, I was really gifted to have incredible P2 instructors. I have Mitch Riley and Dylan Benedetti, also Brian Howell and, um, Kevin and a couple guys, but especially, especially Mitch and Dylan, being such experts, it was super inspiring because I got to see what was possible in the sport. So yeah, I started working for Rob at the training hill, just driving the van. And I was super afraid to instruct because I didn't really know anything. And I was like, gosh, if I say the wrong thing to someone, it could be, you know, devastating for them. And so eventually Dylan sort of like forced me to start instructing people. And he tapped me me to come out to the lake. And I have some experience on boats.
So I dropped into the toe tech job really well. And spending all that time at the lake, watching people, you know, do stuff to their wing and just being surrounded by paragliding was, you know, I was immersed. So it was really helpful. You know, it wasn't necessarily time flying, but it was time. I'm thinking about paragliding, watching and visualizing and imagining
I've asked quite a few. We've had a bunch of SIV instructors on the show over the years: Dylan and Jockey, and many others.
And I'd love to get your take on that, from both from being in the boat, just seeing so many people go through the the sequences and the systems and and getting stuff out of it, and also just just your own take, because I know your own flying has been dictated a lot by acro and overcoming fear. And I thought before we before we move into this, last year that's been phenomenal in your comp season, I'd love to just get your take on that, because it's still, it was it was really interesting for me to hear. I've heard this from several SIV instructors that it's not really necessarily for everyone, and I find that pretty interesting, especially for flying cross country.
You
know, I can see that angle that it's not for everyone. I suppose the way I would think about that is that it's everyone has their own personal risk tolerance or risk tolerance as an expression of self. And so some people are comfortable, you know, not really knowing what they need to do. And maybe if they're flying a passively safe wing in a really limited set of operating conditions, that's okay. Personally, I feel like having some standardized set, and this probably comes from, you know, having Dylan as a mentor of mine, but having some standardized set of things that people know, for example, the idea of requiring SIV for a P3 or P4 introduces, I think, a control to what is otherwise kind of maybe a Yahoo or loose cannon sort of sport.
And so I think that's valuable. Certainly with my own clients, I want to know who they did SIV with and what they've done at their experience with SIV. And for me, I was super afraid for a really long time. And so I shunned the idea of being an acro pilot, but I was like, I need to spend all this time here to become a safe cross country pilot because I'm really afraid. So I need to get this experience so that I can trust myself so that I don't spend all this mental energy while I'm trying to fly cross country, dealing with the lack of trust in my skills. So spending all that time at the lake, there was a couple occurrences that I experienced that could have ended up in a reserve toss and didn't.
And so I credit all my time at the lake for that, Dylan's mentorship and watching all those wings and watching what people did wrong, hauling people out of the water after they had had done the wrong thing, and so by having these experiences where things didn't go super well, or my wing didn't stay open and then handling it the proper way, or the mid-air that I got into was another good example of that. You know, I just sort of did what I had practiced in my head a whole ton, and so that, that experience gave me confidence going forward that I would, you know, do the right thing if, if something happened.
Galen mentioned the mid-air there, we'll put some color on that. That was it, I believe it was your first World Cup, correct? In Turkey, in Aksaray.
It was, yeah, yeah, really.
Good week, and I don't know if that was the last day, second to last day, or something like that, but it was, uh, wild. And somebody caught it on video. It was pretty hairy and really windy. It wasn't over when you hit the ground. I don't think I've ever seen a harness that dirty. That was really impressive. That cannibal was brown. My
Water, my water bladder burst that day just randomly. I was trying to shift weight around in my harness, so I put the drinking water underneath the seat, and when I landed, it, three liters of water exploded everywhere. So then, as we were getting dragged across the field, it all became mud. So yeah, I was like, in mud as I was was trying to unbuckle and stop the dragging. It was, yeah, it was kind of, it was a whole nother thing.
I'm not sure if this is a perfect tie, but you were just, you said some things that made me think of something I heard in a previous podcast you did with an actual client of mine at one point in time, back when I ran the boat business, but tell me about willful ignorance. You had some really good things to say about that on that show, which I thought were very applicable to what we we do?
Willful ignorance. Yeah, let's see. Well, I feel put on the spot here now. So I mean, I think people don't necessarily want to think about what they're not good at. For example, this is a risky thing we're doing, like just like boats or mountaineering or anytime you go put yourself in a unforgiving environment, you're some level of prepared and hopefully you're very prepared. You probably think you're very prepared, but it's—and certainly having confidence in that environment is really important. But I don't, I don't know, I guess you know, we're, we are, we tell ourselves that things are going to be okay, and we're probably less likely to look at our weaknesses or things we could improve on because that might take away from confidence.
Does that sound, or do you know I...
I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I one of my favorite people to follow on on social media, which I try not to do too much social media, but I really like following Will Gadd because he he uh, it's not just "hey, look at me." Every every post he does on there is some kind of technical skill to learn about ice climbing, which I'm not an ice climber, but I I still find it fascinating, but he always talks about risk, and I've said this on the show before. One of the things he taught me literally – I mean the day before we did that Rockies Traverse with the Red Bull film up in Canada, I didn't know well. We met the day before we went and did that, and so he was on the way to the first launch was kind of, who is this guy?
He likes to know who he's doing stuff with, and we had just met. And so he had pinned me right away as someone who was way too optimistic. He hated that about me. And he said, you know, Gavin, I'm not even the guy that thinks that the glass is half full. I'm looking for what's going to break the fucking glass. And and I thought, "Wow, man, you're really negative." And it's not negative, it's—it's this, it's the opposite of willful ignorance, you know? He—he looks at these places like you said, you're putting yourself into environments that are that have risk and just inherent in them, and he's looking at what's going to go wrong here.
That what's—what's—what's possibly going to kill me? What can—can I eliminate from this equation that gives me better odds? You know, what's going to break the glass. And, um, it was a huge mind shift for me that I still struggle with, but it's an, it's, I think it's an important mind shift. You know, this whole, I think when you were talking about in the podcast, you were talking about that, uh, this thinking that it's not going to happen to you as is bad thinking.
Yeah. Well, it's, it's also self-protective. I mean, I can credit my my instructors, you know, Dylan and Mitch, especially kind of knowing or hearing stories that you can die or you can get super injured if you're not careful. And I crashed into a tree in Parma Park on my first mountain flight. So by the time I got to the LZ, I was super gripped. I just didn't have the capacity to make wise decisions anymore. And I object fixated on a tree, tree hit the tree, kind of fell through the entire tree, landed on the ground with my wing above me, and I was fine. I didn't even have a bruise; I had a little scrape on my arm, and I landed right next to a barbed wire fence, and I...
so that was this experience which, right off the bat, I, um, like, kind of when I came down from the adrenaline of that, I was like, "Oh, that could have been so awful, and I could have died." And so, you know, I, I basically thought about that a lot and it made me reflect on my, my life on the ground. And it made me reflect, uh, really, uh, objectively on my own flying skillset and who I was as a person and how I undertook risk. And so that was, that was a formative thing going into pursuing expertise, immersing myself in the sport and And I certainly encourage, you know, my clients, anyone,
P2 students, whoever, to think about that, you know, I think it's addressed non directly a lot. It's like, oh, if you just had a breakup, don't go flying. I think it's worth zooming out a little bit and thinking about like, you know, what's going on in your life? What things in the past have you done that make you better at managing risk? What's your experience with that? What are times in any aspect of life that you've just been careless because you don't want to do that when you're flying, hopefully?
Yeah, in that same conversation, I've got an arrow that goes down that that kind of thinking leads you to two things. One, reducing risk as much as possible. And so with you, that was, you know, immersing yourself in instruction, SIV, making this your life, uh, learning as much as possible, you know, trying to get a grip on this fear, maybe through increasing skill set. Do I have that right? Yeah. And then two, you said you should be happy in life. You, you very often do this, you draw, draw, you, you're, you parallel from piloting and from the sport to your own personal life, which I love this about you, that you, you tie it all together.
And I think often we kind of keep it in, sometimes we keep it in two separate boxes. We all pursue this, I hope, because it's fun and it makes us happy, and that's why we should be doing it. But even in my mind, it's, it's, it's often kind of two separate things, you know. One of them is pretty intense and, uh, you know, I, I have often felt like I use it as an escape, and I know that makes you go, "No, we shouldn't be doing that." I've heard you say that we shouldn't be using this as an escape. Talk about that. There's some fun stuff there. Yeah.
I mean, I don't want to tell, unless you're paying me. I don't want to tell other their people what to do. Like, I just sort of, you know, I think people are just going to be themselves. And I don't, I don't want to concern myself too much. Like, I have to shut out the noise of, you know, what people think you should do. But yeah, I think it's different for everyone. But for me, it seemed obvious to, you know, Use the lessons you've learned in life and apply them to flying, and likewise use the lessons you have in flying and let them apply to your life with some caveats, of course. But like, if you're just—if you want to get good quickly, or being excellent is important for you, I don't know that seeing it as an escape from life is the way to do that now.
Now, certainly I have a joke where I'm like anyone who's gotten good at flying really quickly is running from something or is like, you know, avoiding something on the ground. And I think that's that was certainly the case for me in some capacity, but and perhaps for you as well. But I think it I don't I don't think it's one or the other. I mean, flying is still somewhat of an escape for me. You know, there have been times in my career where I feel like flying is easy and simple and being on the ground or living life is difficult. And then other times when like being on the ground and living life is really easy and putting myself in that place of being present and performing a skill set is really difficult.
difficult, and yeah, I... I think it's just good to be aware of that. And... and at the... the basis of really good piloting, I think, is self-awareness. It's not that hard, you know, flying a paraglider. There's only, you know, three controls: you press the speed bar, you pull the right or the left brake, but putting all of the things it takes to like do cross country or fly acro or even just fly at the ridge safely, you know, that's difficult. And so you need to, I think, be really aware of yourself and what patterns you have and when you shut off and what you do when you get stressed and even how you relate to other people, you know.
When did you get into comps? um
I started doing comps maybe two and a half or three years into flying, kind of like with acro. I wasn't trying to be a comp pilot, I was just like, "This is going to be the most efficient way to learn cross country." And yeah, so I did a sprint race at the Applegate my first year. It was just, just thrilling. Chris Garcia and I, we were working at Eagle together and we, uh, went up and did the demo days and then we, yeah, we did the sprint comp and it was totally a thrill. Good.
place to start? And when did you decide? And it was that kind of a natural progression. When did you decide to become national champion, uh?
You know, I have a, uh, I have a habit of questioning myself a whole lot, um, and maybe a problem of lacking self-belief. And there was something that, uh, that Rob Sporrer said said to me a year into my comp flying, uh, maybe, and he was like, "You know, you could be incredible, uh, someday." He might have said, "You could be national champion or world champion or something." He's like, "But you need to start having an ego for me." That, that was like risky. I was like, "Oh no, no, you know, I don't, I'm not arrogant, I don't have an ego." But I, I think it was through a really good performances sometimes in tasks and being encouraged to keep going and needing to like prove something to myself that I could do it, that yeah, that sort of led to that.
And realistically, I think I told myself I could be national champion after the world championships last year because I, I did the best flying of my career. I wasn't super consistent, but a couple of days, I stuck with the lead gaggle all day. And even on the famous, I think it was Task 8, where Maxime and Honorin escaped and the rest of the lead gaggle bombed out in between power lines in a big row of trees. I was like, I was right there with those two guys and they kept drifting and I just made this one little decision that was wrong, but I was like, okay, I, I can hang with them.
I can do this. If I can do this here, I can go. So I just told myself that it was possible. I made a joke to someone, I was like, well, I'm just gonna go win the national championship, and I forgot about it. And then he messaged me after I had and he was like, oh, it looks like you did a good job, and I was like, oh, oh my gosh, I, I had some delusion that it was possible. And I think that we talked about that
down in Columbia that you think it's important to, you know, delude yourself every once in a while. That's all right.
If you don't believe something's possible, then it, um, it definitely isn't you, you don't want to have a bunch of expectation around it. But on my first task finished the first time I made goal, I had been, this was in Applegate and at the sprint. And I I had this big cascade right over the mountain. And I was with the lead gaggle. And I cascaded down like 1800 feet or something and managed not to throw my reserve. And then I was behind and I was like, all rattled. And I was like, What do I do now? And then I flew into the thermal, which had violently ejected me, you know, 2000 feet above. And I started thermaling again. And I was I was like, you know, I was like, well, it's still possible for me to catch up.
And in fact, and maybe I wasn't telling myself that I was just like, well, I'm here to fly the task. And so I was a couple of minutes behind and I saw the lead gaggle make this poor choice. And so I was able to get higher and just glide straight to goal. And I think I got second that day, or something like that, after being five minutes behind in the last 75 or in the last 25 of the race. And so I realized, it's like, it was possible, you, you know, it's, and that's what made it such an intriguing game to me, is because something can happen that's not ideal, falling out the back of the lead gaggle, and then it's still possible for you to go like win the task potentially, you
You had a really interesting experience that I'd love to dive into that, in in some ways, timeline-wise, at least. It kind of predicated the success you've had this year. Uh, you went over to Spain before the world's this year, so that was basically a year ago now, right? Uh, and and uh, you wanted to warm up at the—I don't know if that was a pre-PWC or PWC or whatever it was—but some event in Spain. You're going there to warm up and take it from there. Uh, you had a pretty interesting experience, I
Was there on the warm-up day, it was a World Cup, and I was training the submarine. I kind of told myself that I needed to do this race to get used to the submarine before, kind of to train for the World Championships, and um, so I felt obligated in a way. And also, I was coming off of of the two comps in Brazil last April where I had done the best flying of my career to the point, but I was inconsistent, basically. I used two or two and a half drop days each comp, and and especially the second one, the World Cup, the last day I was in really good position in the overall rankings, and I just, I put so much pressure on myself that I totally messed it up, and I was so hard on myself, you know, landed and cried and just felt awful.
And so basically, Those experiences, the last time I had been racing of like doing the best, but also putting myself under so much pressure, colored that flight on the training day in Spain, and I launched, and I was in this new position, and the submarine all bundled up, and there was just a sea of olive trees, not very many landings, and and I basically just like, couldn't fly. I mean, I could go in circles. And I think I went and tagged the first turn point or two. And then I was just like, I cannot do this. And I landed and just completely broke down. Yeah, I mean, I call it a nervous breakdown. But I don't know people that have other sorts of nervous breakdowns might say, well, that's not a nervous breakdown.
But But I basically just, yeah, I couldn't hold it together. I was looking at tickets home. I was thinking, gosh, I can't be part of this world's team. I don't even want to fly. I didn't want to look at a paraglider. I've organized my life around this for so long. And I can't even, it was awful. So yeah, some friends came and talked me down. And I was staying in a cave. And it was like an Airbnb cave. And I couldn't stand up, and I was like, and it was dark and there was no windows, and um, they were like, "We're gonna bring you with us, like, you come stay with us." So I, they stole me away, brought me to an olive plantation house that they were living in, and they, uh, and I just stayed there for four days and I didn't leave, and I dropped out of the race, and I, I watched the race come overhead, and and I remember looking up and kind of giggling and being like, oh, I recognize that person and that person.
But having no, just being completely estranged from the concept of pilotage.
And yeah, it was really alarming and, you know, kind of terrifying. But being inside, sitting on the couch, I was reading like a book a day. And I just sort of like, I just couldn't be in a position where I put pressure on myself. And and I was putting an undue, unfair, unreasonable amount of pressure on myself. I wasn't having any fun.
And how do you how do you course correct?
Well, you know, Evan and Emily, that's who rescued me. They, you know, basically I was chatting with folks on the team. I was trying to still go to the world's maybe not fly. I basically did a ton of self-reflecting in that space that wasn't flying. I mean, I needed to get my head straight on the ground. We as a team had hired Maxime Bellemin, who's like kind of my flying guru. I love his books and just the sort of approach mentally and preparation that he takes. And uh, so I, I called him up and he gave me some tips, but really it was opening myself up, being vulnerable with someone that I really respected that basically forced me to self-reflect and be, be like, oh, I am a good pilot.
I am doing this for fun. I am a safe pilot. And I put way too much pressure on myself. So I need to be realistic with myself. I had answered this questionnaire that he had sent us prior to working together. And I had rated myself really low on a bunch of fundamental skills, and he kind of challenged me on that, and he said, "You're definitely not a three out of five on thermaling. Like, what? What is that?" And he actually called me delusional to say, like, to assess myself as three out of five, and that was super helpful because I—you know, I mean, there's the delusion believing you can win, but there's also the delusion believing you're not good enough.
And or you don't have skills. And so he challenged me on that. He was like, why? Why did you say three out of five? And I was kind of like, I came up blank. And I was like, because I have a lot more to learn, because I want to leave room for improvement. And, and he's like, if you were at a three out of five, it would, you know, you, you wouldn't be saying that, you know, if you can keep up with the people you can keep up with, you're not a three out of five. So you need to be realistic so that you can go out there and express yourself and do what you're capable of doing. You need to have self-belief. And so I hid from the world for another four days and interlocking. And then I grouped up with the world's team and I basically changed my whole...
I was like, "You know, I'm gonna go out and fly. I've done all this work to be at this point, to qualify for the world, and I'm gonna go out and have fun. And I'm gonna ask myself at every point, 'Am I having fun?' And how could I be having fun? Would it be more fun to be on the ground?" That created the biggest change in all of my flying because I had to be accountable to myself and decide, "Yes, this is fun. I want to make the fun decision here." And and only once, I mean, when I instituted this, this process of asking myself if it's fun, I was like, "Gosh, it might mean that I'm just like not flying the task.
I'm just going to go land." And since then, um, I had one task, uh, it was at the worlds where I was in this nasty spot I shouldn't have been and, uh, the guy right next to me threw his reserve and and I was like, "Ah, you know, this isn't fun. I'm not having fun." And so I just went landed. And it was this really excellent experience for me because usually when I land in a task, I would beat myself up and I'd be be like, "Oh, you made this mistake and this mistake," and I would obsess over what I could have done differently or how I could have performed, uh, my skill set better. And there I just was there, and I was looking up at the pilot on the mountain in the trees and I was like, "Well, I am here on the ground, but I'm fine.
I'm having fun. I'm in France at the worlds and I could be there, but I'm not." And so I sort of created the safe space for me, for myself. And I was like, well, that's what it is. And then after that, yeah. And since then, I've been able to, I'm not actively doing it so much anymore, asking myself if it's fun. I'm just, it's part of my preparation. I just realized what is going to be fun and, and what about flying is fun and it's being with all my friends and it's performing a skill set and expressing myself and the beautiful views and, and, you know, and I don't, I don't need to beat myself up.
Flying has to be especially, uh, competition flying, task flying. It has to be an emotionally safe place for me, you know? If the—if the worst possible scenario is me beating myself up, because the real worst, worst-case scenario is getting really injured or dying, but if the worst, you know, possible scenario is me being really, really hard on myself and I can't go out and be creative and have fun and get to look over at my friends and, you know, do thumbs up or hoot and holler at them, so I kind of completely changed my mindset and like Maxime encouraged me to like, I have a confidence now.
I believe it's possible. I believe that I can go win a task or I can keep up with the best pilots. I'm
curious, when he asked you that and you rated yourself three out of five, too low, was that because it would have been arrogant to put what you you really were? Or did you really not believe that you were?
I, yeah, so it was delusional to say I was three out of five. And, and basically, and this is sort of this new concept, but there's a aviation aphorism, confidence is an asset and arrogance is a liability. And so I think, I think actually a lot of people in general, in life and in flying confuse confidence with arrogance. And so they're not going to be confident. So yeah, I would have answered four or four and a half out of five. But that felt like a I was shortchanging myself. So I was saying, Oh, there's only this little bit of improvement. And sometimes I'm only three out of five, like, that last task in Brazil, I was maybe a one out of five, like, I just couldn't hang.
So, yeah, I felt like it would have been delusional or excuse me, it would have been maybe arrogant and it would have shortchanged how much I had to learn. But, yeah, I've I've stopped doing that. I've stopped confusing arrogant or confidence with arrogance because I'm not an arrogant person, but I aspire to be a more confident person. it
Sounds like there's, I mean, there's a few things here that actually, and some of this isn't for me, it's from you. And we talked down in Columbia a week and a half ago, but you, you talk about you kind of created a new story for yourself. It's a new, new lore. I love that word. And you've also mentioned safety quite a few times, but more emotional safety. Uh, you know that you, I think you also said that you feel like comp flying is actually really safe. It's a really safe thing for you to do if you've created, you know, once you created this new story, is it, do I have that right?
Yeah. I mean, I guess I just want to, you know, I I've flown a lot of comps in the last couple of years and I'm drawn to comp flying, I think because it's kind of structured and
not particularly adventurous. I've been dealing with enough stuff the last couple of years, like on the ground and in life that going and having this sort of going to do a sort of flying that doesn't require the like need for adventure. I mean, I love it. I flew tons in Columbia and I am excited to do more adventure flying, but it wasn't what I needed. That having a bunch of of people there, uh, around me, having everyone flying the same route, having people watching out for you, that all gave me this like sense of confidence and allowed me to like not worry about, oh, what, what could happen? What could happen?
So yeah, let's see. You asked a couple questions there. Well, I
I just wanted to make sure I had that right. I mean, I, I loved this that you've kind created a new lore for yourself, you know, a new and it, I, I always feel
People like honoring and Maxine and Josh Cohn, and you know, they, they, they've kind of, they've cracked the code, right? They, they're—there are certain myths that you turn into facts, and you, you, you like you said, when you're, when you're racing, well, it's actually quite easy. Uh, when you're in position, you're not making a lot of decisions; you're, you're, you're just in flow, you're smiling. It's, it's easy, it's kind of working out. And it seemed like this event that you went through in Spain and working with Maxime and, and coming out the other side and kind of creating a new story for yourself. Uh, you know, since then, you, you did remarkably.
We had some remarkably good days at the Worlds, you know, you got third, then Chelan behind Russ Ogden and Matt Hansy, who were both flying really lights out. Uh, and you were, I, I looked up at you the whole week. I mean, you were just in position, and then you won the wide open, uh, set an incredible precedent there, and you're our new national champion because of, our those two amazing results. Uh, it's a hell of a year, and one that, you know, most people who spend a lot of time at comps will never experience. And so, uh, my question is was there's wasn't even a question it's just this it seems like you've you've created this new model and uh the more you can share about it the better it's that's That's fantastic.
I mean, I, it's, it's, uh, you know, you, you, you did it quite in some ways quite quickly. You know, your, your, your first world cup was, uh, in Turkey. I was at that one with you. That was 21, 22. Wasn't that long ago?
Yeah. I think it was, yeah, it was fall fall of
21, right? So, yeah.
I just think, I mean, I knew having having some good task finishes, I had a one good task finish in Turkey. Uh, we were flying all day together, actually, so I guess I feel like in that, that day, I think I got top five, and I was on a serial class wing, but I, I think I just sort stumbled into it. I just had this self-belief. I had no expectation on myself. And I was like, gosh, well, these people know what they're doing. So I'm going to follow along with them and imitate and play by the rules that I learned in the books, perform this skill set. I was kind of removed from it, my ego.
I'm like, I just like, okay, I'll just go try. And then it worked out really well. And so I think that gave me this, like, sense of confidence or possibility and instilled the delusion, gosh, I can do this one day. So I can do it six and a half out of or five and a half out of seven days. And and I had a couple really good comps in Brazil, A World Cup and, uh, the Pan-Americans following that recently, or, um, following that first World Cup, and I had no expectation on myself. I was into the imitation game; I trusted myself. My ego was removed from it pretty much, and I flew really well, almost like very consistently also, and had great results.
Results, so I like, it was, I think, I, I knew it was possible, but I think I started to place all this expectation on myself, and I started, instead of zooming out, being like, "Oh gosh, what did I do that week that worked and that didn't work?" I was obsessing over each little decision, and, and so that is what led to the putting too much pressure on myself, and there was no, there was no mental power left for just going out and flying because I was obsessing, "Oh, is this the right choice or the wrong choice? Is this a high chance or a high probability option, or a low probability option?" And, and so with that sort of breakdown and feeling like super estranged from flying and then re-entering, and I, I had some good results at the Worlds, but I was tender.
I was like, each day I was like, "Like," do I want to fly today, you know? Do I belong here? I mean, I was just being so gentle with myself and just focusing on the connections I had with my teammates and the fun of it. That experience of seeing what, making it fun, and just going out and performing allowed me to believe in myself. myself, and even in the moments in Chelan and in Red Rocks, when I was like alone or had made a mistake, instead of you know, basically I just didn't care.
I was like, "Gosh, well, I, I did well at the worlds, you know, I had some good flights. I'm, I am a good pilot sometimes." And I like this, so I'm just gonna keep going, and and that freed up so much mental energy for you know, just staying in a good position, and and like it felt like this process that just reinforced itself, because if I'm going out and trying to have fun and I'm trying to have a nice finish, the best way to do that is to stay in a good position and not be stressed, not be low, make high chance options, and just kind of trust myself. And I think as much as you try to, I don't know, there's just so much feeling and intuition involved in flying and hunting cores and trying ideas or hypotheses out that I guess I felt like, or I feel like now, my flying is really creative.
I don't, I don't think you can be creative, and and artists will probably attest to this, but I don't think you can be creative if you're really afraid of making a bad product. I, I feel this with my own writing, is like I start to put things on the page and then I go, "Oh, that's awful," you know? And instead of not caring and just continuing to write, you just like stop or you feel discouraged from continuing to be creative. It's vulnerable. And so while it's a completely different sort of creativity that's required in flying, I think the same sort of philosophy applies. applies. You know, it has to be, like you said, an emotionally safe place to try and fail or try and succeed.
And yeah, it's worked out really well. You know, I still make mistakes. I had one finish on the Monarca that I just landed and I was super frustrated because I had been kind of fighting with Manuel all day and I had gotten stuck on the south end of Mordor. And then at At the end of the day, you and a few others, Farmer, you guys just came and flew over my head. And I was just like emotionally exhausted. I wasn't putting too much pressure on myself, but it was this emotional exhaustion from not just flying, but from kind of like fighting and being really and like trying to trying to win. So I don't see that as a failure, but I landed and I got really emotional and I was frustrated.
And so I had to just like, be like, okay, cool. Well, you still had a great finish and you had fun and you got to practice these things. And, you know, there wasn't, there was still emotional involvement and I was still really frustrated, but I wasn't beating myself up at all. I was just like, okay, cool. Throw it out, reset, you know, tomorrow I'll try again. And, um, yeah.
You're leaving here pretty shortly for the Superfinal, which we were going to go to and decided to go to.
You've had some repetition now with Chelan, Wide Open, Monarca, all really good results. results, what's the lure you operate around now going to the Superfinal? How do you find this space? How do you find this emotional space that's working so well? How do you, how do you repeat this is I have found that hard to, to this really works. Just do that again. It's not quite, at least for me, it's not quite that easy. I mean, when you're saying, you know, I love when, when you're having fun, things work. And so it's one thing to say, "I'm just gonna do this, I'm just gonna have fun," but sometimes our egos get in the way of that. At least they do with me.
Absolutely. Well, I mean, the one one thing that makes me think before I answer your question is, like, you know, what is your level of self-awareness when you have a really good, good result or performance? I felt that in Chelan, I would just hearken back to the emotional journey I went on that May of dropping out of a competition and, you know, suffering and, you know, and then coming back, being really gentle with myself, being able to perform well at the Worlds. So that was all and really recent memory. And I was like, OK, well, I'm just going to do my best to replicate that. And if I had been, I guess I think probably in Brazil, I wasn't being particularly self-aware.
And so then when I went to go fly again, I was, despite having some great results in recent history, I was unable to replicate or even fly. And so, having that added level, or higher level, level of self-awareness that I had at the worlds as like understanding myself, I just took that and I sort of replicated it. You know, I think we're all learning to be more self-aware, especially in cop flying, about our decision making, about how competitive we're being, about how we're interacting with all our other pilots, and what self we're bringing to it. You know, you just do it sort of one day at a time. And you realize it's a really long game.
And you forgive little mistakes. I did the same thing at Monroe, I was like, gosh, am I because I was like, there's a possibility that I could win the national championship. You know, I need to beat this person and do well enough. But is it even possible? And, and I was just like, okay, okay, well, I'll just be tender with myself, be really self-aware, play in this. And I had the same thing in Monarca. I was like, gosh, well, I've had a couple of good results, but can I continue it? And I just, I like kind of hearken back to this, be gentle with yourself. You belong here. You know what you're doing. And so those are all nationals levels comps.
So I think there's a a piece of foregoing expectation that's maybe easier at the Superfinal. I did my first Superfinal in Valle last year. You were there and you flew really well every day and then kind of had issues with the end. And I remember going into it with no expectation. And I think I was 40 minutes slow on the first day and then 30 minutes slow for a couple of days and then 20 minutes slow. And then I was starting to, basically, I was just, you know, building on building on what I had experienced. And so for this, I'm just, you know, I feel like I have a great six or eight or 10 months of flying to draw on.
And I was really tender and gentle with myself and self-aware during that flying, but I'm also going with, um, you know, 120 pilots that fly faster or as fast as the leaders on any of those competitions that I've done this year. So, kind of, all expectations up, just go have fun, feel privileged to be there, and trust the—like, trust the galen that got me here that qualified me for the Superfinal. She'll, um, she'll, like, you know, be there for you, and you just go out and have fun. But I've been thinking about it a ton every day. I'm just like, I'm visualizing that sort of mental process of just, you know, I'm here, I—I get to be here, so just go have fun and don't get competitive.
We're
Gonna going to do a show specifically with you all, you and and Violetta and Alexia and Jenny, hopefully before the Superfinal. So those of you listening, I'm kind of alluded to that we're going to try to make that happen before, uh, you guys get going on that race. So we'll learn more about this, but two things I want to talk about is this momentum that you women have right now and and what has has sparked that. And I said we're going to do a whole show on that, but I'd love for you to talk about it because it is really thrilling. And then the other thing I would love to talk about is, as I see you as kind of the pivotal member, uh, in our community that has sparked all this, I'm quite new to the party side of of our competitions in the U.S., uh, and Violetta to thank for that.
And at the not this wide open, but the one before, but there's kind of an amazing thing going on, at least from my perspective, uh, with the U.S. comp scene. And you know, we saw it loud and proud at Monarca, you know, with nine out of the top 10 there being U.S. pilots. That's that's pretty amazing, uh, I'd love for you to just talk about those two things as much as you want to right now because it's, it's, there, there's something happening with our community that is really exciting to be a part of. And, and I think you've been, you're kind of the leader there. You're the one that's, that's made it happen. I mean, of course it's a community effort, but it's, I really, it's, it, it has been a beautiful thing.
And I mean, beautiful in a lot of different ways there, that word encompasses a lot, but it's been a beautiful thing to be a part of and to witness and to see this kind of sea change really in our community.
Yeah, well, I wouldn't call myself a pivotal member of anything because that would be arrogant.
You're a 4.8 out of 5. I'm not sure.
Yeah, I'm a 3 out of 5. With the women's team thing, it's really been Violetta who, you know, she's been a huge supporter of me. She's an incredible person. She's an incredible pilot. And we, post-pandemic, we both started just doing loads of comps. We basically were able to qualify for webcups. And so we got really close. And we've been there for each other as we figure out how to fly as best as we possibly can. And so then also with Alexia and Jenny, who are a little bit newer, or who have done less races, but are also just doing incredible on the world stage, and giving the US women maybe a little bit of a reputation, which I've heard about.
It's really cool. And I think where we're at is as we start to organize and work together, and this is just in its infancy, we all, you know, you talk about it all the time on the show of the French teamwork and camaraderie, and you've alluded a ton, and it's just a reality that there is somewhat of a cowboy nature to U.S. flying, U.S. comp flying and pilots. And so I feel like at least Violetta and I have come up through that system of where it's been sort of everyone for themselves, and there hasn't been this emphasis on working together. And, gosh,
you know, except for maybe the five or 10 best pilots in the world, everyone else and comp flying in general is, it's, you have to work together. It's, that's your ability to work together will make or break your comp flying. line, so we came up through this and and I think Alexia and Jenny also have become incredible pilots on their own. So, independently, we've found this vein of performance that we're able to tap into, and so what we're doing is trying to not replicate what the French have or what any team and Macedonia has an incredible team rapport the Germans have.
You know, we're trying to say, well, gosh, if we got here on our own, what could we do if we're working together or if we support each other? You know, if we want to see each other or if we want to share a podium together the overall podium that is what can we do to support that how can we lift each other up and and support each other. And so again, this is in its infancy. We did a couple of days of flying together. We're learning how to communicate with each other and trust each other. Yeah, it's just really exciting because each woman brings something really different to the team. We've all struggled in different ways to get good really quickly. And we've all faced different different challenges in our ground life that have led us to be able to do this, and and we all have a lot of love and respect for each other.
So it's like, gosh, if we incorporate and support each other, what what's possible? And it feels like, you know, the it's just exciting, yeah. Um, and we're excited to be on the podcast, and and then I I have the the second question you asked was that about the the parties or the sort of the U.S. comp scene being more cohesive of a community?
Maybe even more than that. Yeah. It seems like there's something that has shifted in our community that has aspired and inspired results and performance and stoke and desire. And, you know, there's for the first time in ages, there's young people coming into the sport that are really good, really fast. And, you know, there it's and it seems to me that the one bit of glue there, the stick is the parties at the end of the comp. You know, you share this pretty radical experience during the week. You know, you're all kind of throwing it out there a bit.
And then you get to hug it out for a night. And I don't know, am I putting too much on it? Or it just seems like that's a big part of the collective success.
Yeah. You know, I guess I think there's so much talk in comp flying or in task flying of working together. And especially when, you know, before you're going off to make your own decisions, you're working together with a group of people. And I think I see comp flying or test flying as a social game. Primarily, almost everyone has a similar set of knowledge and a similar set of skills. There's very little that separates that, but it's your ability to interact with others. And so I guess I think knowing that you're going to get to hang out and hug all your friends on the last night of the comp or that having that experience of of loving them, of loving the people that you're racing with and supporting them is is only going to make you better flying.
You know, it's—it's like being part of a community and having shared goals, and there's also, I think, you know, there's—there's that sort of, but, but there's also just that a lot of U.S. pilots have done a lot of high-level racing across the world in the last couple years, and so we know each other a lot better, and we know the sort of choices that we're going to make, and we feel supported. You know, if you're flying in a gaggle of people and you're fighting every single one of them, that's a lot of extra energy, and only so much can be achieved with, you know, egotistical, ruthless competitiveness.
And, and maybe that's what it takes to be a world champion, or to fly at the very best, or to get first place every day, I don't know, but, but certainly to fly really, really well, you can, you know, you don't, you don't want to be wasting energy on feeling at odds with people, and I think being yourself and, you know, letting your freak flag fly is really important. I know you're a big fan of that, um, and if, if there's anything that I serve as a pivotal example of, it's maybe just like fully realizing yourself and being yourself in the face of dissenting voices, or, or just existing, you know, it's existing as an art, and living life, life is art.
And so I'm hesitant to say this about myself. But I also, I think, or I've heard from people that they, they look up to me and being myself, and they feel a permission to also be themselves, which if you're going out to express yourself, or to express a skill set that you have, is really important. I've looked up to a lot of pilots who are very much themselves, yeah. I don't know, I think it's a mutual love and respect we have for each other and
That's a very nice place to end, Galen. You're a treasure. Thank you very much for sharing all this. I wish you the best of luck at the Superfinal with the gals. I can't wait to watch; it's going to be really exciting. You guys are all kind of hitting this incredible peak right now, which was really fun, but thank you, thank...
you so much gavin yeah uh we'll We'll miss you there, but we'll look forward to talking again.
Perfect.
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