Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem and a special one for you today. Before we get there, though, a little tiny bit of housekeeping. In conjunction with the release of this show, we will be putting out about the same time or within a few days, working on that one right now. But we did a follow-up show with Calef, and we call it the 201 show. The first one, the bonus show that we did, was really built for pilots who were just leaving the nest. This one is now much further along, so you're starting to thermal and deal with turbulence and flying XC. And this one has a lot of great topics as well. Barbecue, bowling, and baseball.
Spook early and often. What is turbulence? How to map it. The way of the butterfly. Fly, and a lot more. I really like how Calef thinks about flying and teaching and mentoring. He's got a really cool thing going on out there in the Northeast. Really stoked community. So these are his concepts, sometimes his own, sometimes taken from other places, other books and other things he's read and seen. But they're great concepts that are really fun to explore, and that's what we did. So I think regardless of where you are on the learning spectrum, we're all in some place in the spectrum. It's some really valuable stuff there, so keep an eye out for that one.
That's for subscribers, and as always, you don't have to do anything to be a subscriber of the show. Hopefully someday you can support it, but if you can't, that's totally fine. Just send me an email, and I'll set you up with a lifetime subscription, and you can have access to all those bonus shows. We're trying to put out more of those. These days, and it's a lot of fun to create these for different aspects of where you are in your own bit of flying. So huge thanks to Calef for putting so much thought into these and making them happen and sharing the stoke and the knowledge.
This show is with my good friend Paul Guschlbauer and our continuing series of taking a walk and fly down memory lane for the Red Bull X-Alps. Of course, we just had the 20. 23 Red Bull X-Alps, and that was lightning fast. Paul has now done eight of these. He started in 2011 when he was truly a pup flying, and that one went really well because the weather was terrible. But he also talks about how poor of a pilot he was. He was pretty brand new to the sport and decided, yeah, this looks really cool. I want to go on this adventure. And he did, and he did well, and he got third, and that led to a Red Bull sponsorship, an athlete sponsorship. And a lot of other stuff. He's very good at working the sponsorship angle.
But that also put a ton of pressure on him to do well and perform well in the 2013 race, which didn't go nearly as well. And really struggled both mentally, well, mostly mentally, physically, he was still a beast. So he talks about that, and we go through each event all the way up to the most recent, which was a furious thrash through the X-Alps. The fastest it had ever been done. And we talk about that, just the level and how things have changed with gear and training and the professionalism of the team and going from, you know, mandatory just one supporter to as many as you want. There's been a lot of changes in the race over the years. But the biggest one is just how fast athletes are capable of doing it these days.
So we had a ball with this. It's a long one, but it's, gosh. I love this race, as you all know I do. And I know these talks about the X-Alps aren't everybody's cup of tea, because it's really one very extreme end of the sport. But it's pretty fun to see what Aaron and he are doing with the Vonderbird and just the explosion of hike and fly around the world, including my own race here, the Global Rescue X-Red Rocks, which we just had, which was a hoot. So I think you'll enjoy it. It sounds like this is... It sounds like the future of the sport, which is really exciting. So enjoy this crazy, very fun, very entertaining talk with Paul Guschlbauer.
Cheers.
Paul, we've been talking about doing this for an awfully long time. It's finally coming to fruition. But nice to see you and nice to have this chat with you about taking a walk down memory lane with
the X-Alps. Yeah. Hey, Gavin. I'm happy that we finally make it happen. And it's good to talk to you again. It has been a while and I'm happy about your invitation to your podcast.
Yeah, it
sounds like you've
got a podcast now going with Aaron with the whole Vonderbird thing, which I've been watching very closely. Aaron was just here. He defended his title. He won the Global Rescue X-Red Rocks and was shredding and he was really sick. I was impressed that he was able to perform that well when he was so sick. But he told us all about it. He gave a presentation here and he told everybody. It sounds fantastic. You and I were just talking about it before we started recording. So I wish you guys the best of luck with that. That's a lot of fun. Yeah, it
would be an honor for me if I can at some point interview you for the Vonderbird Hike and Fly podcast. Well, now you've got all this professional gear. We've got to put it to use,
man. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it's great. It's great. One more time to get the chance to put this set up here because I only did three podcasts so far. For our podcast. So I have to get used to all this gear here. But then, yeah, I'm sure this will be nice. Where are you guys putting
it out? Just for listeners of the mayhem here who may not be aware of it. Where do they find it?
It's basically everywhere. So it's on Spotify. It's called the Vonderbird. All these channels. And yeah, you basically you put in a Vonderbird Hike and Fly podcast and then we show up.
Well done. Oh, wow. Wow. I'll put it in my.
Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, guys. If you if you listen to that, the first one was with Pál Takáts and second one with a young guy who just started Hike and Fly racing at a Vonderbird event. And yeah, it's really cool. Cool stories. And yeah, looking forward to do some more. Cool. And of course, the third one now with Aaron talking all about what Vonderbird actually is and what we want to do. Cool. Well,
it's some good vision there. And yeah. It's neat to see it come to fruition and nice to have another platform other than the X-Ups. I mean, there's lots of Hike and Fly now all over the world, but it's cool to see what you guys are doing. It's a really great concept. It's similar. I mean, ours is a three day race. It's a stage race. But I think you and I and Aaron all share the same vision of, you know, we need something that's a building block. And it's also something that's accessible to everybody, not just the elite of the elite, which is really what the X-Ups are. And so it's fun to see it happen. And it's fun to see so many people that are just getting into the sport, finding a love for it and exploring nature and being able to do it regardless, really, of their skill level yet.
Yeah. I mean, the point is like over the years and we will talk about what I have experienced in the next couple of minutes, I guess, with Hike and Fly. I don't know, like apart from the X-Ups, Cross the Alps. Well, more times than just that. I think it's now 10 times that I went all across back and forth the Alps and then also in the Himalaya and wherever. So and what I figured out is like a successful Hike and Fly athlete or person who really can perform well is somebody who is very much in the moment of what he does and is able to, you know, not only exhaust himself to the max and not being able to, you know, to think clear anymore.
It's exactly the opposite. It's like keeping this perfect balance with your body of being still there, you know, being able to see birds, clouds, feel the wind and all this, still be hiking fast and then take a good decision of when is the right moment to take off and all this. So this is very much in tune with nature, what we do here compared to, you know. Running a marathon on the road has nothing to do with nature. So it has only to do with your own limits, maybe, but nothing to do with the implementation of yourself in nature. And this is the key. And this is why I personally think Hike and Fly is just an amazing sport. Of course, not everybody in the world will probably fly some white and maybe that's also good to promote the sport and its specifics and values and all this.
Yeah. This is really important. And it's a very good example for a thing where we in tune, get in tune with nature again. And I think it's a very important thing. Yeah.
And it's, I mean, there's, I love the saying that the, in the X-Alps, what's so addictive about that and just Hike and Fly in general is the places you find yourself are just frequently, totally absurd. You just, I would never be here if I was just roaming around or even just Hike and Fly. Or if I was just. If I was just hiking and flying, I wouldn't be here because you're there at crazy times of the day and night and just all the things that go together, especially with the weather, you just find yourself in remarkable places doing remarkable things. And like you said, you're, it is quite a unique, I mean, I don't know what other sport would be close to it. Maybe biathlon where you're, you know, you're going really hard and then you've got to totally dial it really fast into a completely different.
You know, you're, you've got to go flow state. You've got to turn the heart rate way down. You've got to be thinking and strategic and you can't just be grinding it out. You know, you can't just go, go, go like you do in an Ironman or even a Tour de France or something. You can't, that's not the game. That's, you'd fail miserably. Yeah,
exactly. That's exactly the point. It's exactly the point. And what you just said about the places you find yourself suddenly, you know, like at 9pm landing. After still being like, having flown an 8, 9, 10, 11 hours till, I don't know, like, like things I can't even, like moments that I can't even describe right now. And what is it? Like it's, it's this, in the end, that's pure adventure. It means that you're in a space where you would never go to, like in a normal life. You
would never,
yeah. It's like the adventure definition for me. But you can't,
you can't replicate it if you're not in a race environment. You know? Replicate, yeah,
I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's just, it's that you get, like in, you get a chance to get out of that comfort zone that you, it's so hard to live every day. And we are striving for safety all the time. Everything we build, everything we do is just like, let's not change anything. Let's stay the same. But then suddenly that, that is what happens. You're suddenly changing because you have to. And then you experience the craziest, coolest things ever. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you said that you, you wouldn't be able to describe it, but now we're going to ask you to.
So your first was 2011. And you talked about this on one of our earlier, earlier podcasts. What I find so amusing about it is, you know, you really, you were more a mountain biker and professional athlete in mountain biking. And then you, you were pretty new at the paragliding side of things. You know, and, but you'd seen, you'd seen the race. I don't know if that was 2009 or seven, but you'd seen the race. Okay. I'm going to do this, but what cracks me up is, you know, you, you weren't the pilot that, uh, you, you probably even should have been. Right. Is, do I have that right? 2011, you talked about, you know, your experience level, you were fit, but your experience level from the flying side was what, just a couple of years. Right. Or was it even that?
So this, the comparison to this year's EXOVS is the best. Yeah. Actually to describe it, if with what I've been and in my flying or where I've been in my flying in 2011, if I, if, if this would have been this kind of EXOVS, as we've seen it this year, I would probably maybe made, you know, like not becoming last, but like second last. Might've been eliminated. Because might've been eliminated, probably eliminated because that's, that's what it was like back then. I was a paragliding beginner, like absolute beginner compared to all these guys, um, that were there, but I, I prove, I have proven before that I can, you know, do these standard cross country flights, 200 kilometers plus, I was still young.
I mean, I could, I was safe because I was a test pilot, but I was not able to fly in the Alps without like, just like, like that, like we are flying now really. Like all day long in all these conditions, being able to adjust to that. So that has definitely changed. I was able to fly back then I was safe, but I was compared to the others. Um, that was the difference. I was really strong. I was really fast. I was really strong. It was really tough. I was, um, just, and also super dedicated. So that was something I think the other guys missed because paragliding pilots is nothing bad about paragliding pilots, but paragliding pilots is still paragliding pilots.
And I came from a world where, uh, eight hours of endurance training a day, five days a week, or let's say five to six hours was normal, you know, and there were not many paragliding pilots, or I would say at least in the except zero that would do that.
Yeah, it was Tom and Chrigel both talked about that. I mean, even from my own experience, my first one in 2015. When I showed up to the pre-week in 2015, I could pretty much write off half of the people just from the fitness side. You could just look at them. I'm okay. They're not trained that they're going to start failing day six, day seven, day eight. And it's just not that game now. It was, it's yeah.
It's a different, it's also a different kind of training. It's not training like you go and say, well, now I'm training for half a year or a year and then you fit, you know? Fit to run up your local mountain in, in a good time. That's also fit, but it's not X-herbs fit. X-herbs fit means there is years of building up this like strength and, uh, resistance. And, and that makes, that makes it possible to perform like that in a race like 2011, like this year was different this year. I mean, everybody saw it. We flew together for more than 1000 kilometers. Because this was not a very necessary part to be able to have this resistance, uh, to go for 10 days or in 2011, it was 14 days.
The race was 14 days for, I think, not even 800 kilometers. And basically we ran the whole thing. I did a lot of gliding. So gliding was good, crazy launches and all this, but I was just able to, to keep going. All the time, I was never stopping. I never had problems. I never had blisters. I mean, I had blisters, but I never had blisters like other people had, and I never suffered from these kinds of things. So that was why I became third in the Red Bull League Seps 2011 out of nowhere. Were
you, you weren't a Red Bull athlete before the race, right? That's how you got with Red Bull, correct? Cause you, you were a third and everybody went, what the
hell? Who is this guy?
Yeah, no, I was not a Red Bull athlete. I was, I was good. I mean, I was, uh, performing well in all these existing, um, hike and fly races that have been, that existed back then. Um, all these border race things where I like, I won the overall class. I won the, um, red, uh, Red Bull Dolomiten man, uh, paragliding category and all this, but that was mostly because I was just strong and I was very dedicated. Like if I, I wanted to win something, I went really into the topic. Like for example, the Dolomiten man, I said, okay, why do people win as well? They run fast, but they can use any glider they can use back then that you could just use any glider.
So, um, I was working for not even, I think half a year at Skywalk. And I said to Arne, the boss of Skywalk, I need to build a glider for Dolomiten man. And he said, yeah, what do you need? I said, I need a 11. I need a poison. That was the ENT. And the, I think he didn't even realize what I was doing anyway. We, we built this glider. I took it. I went to the race. I think I flew it once before and I won because I was just flying faster than all the other guys and the weight balance. Well, anyway, we were getting off topic, but that was how I got to the, to the Red Bull X-Alps. And then actually, and this is some, this is a topic that I'm talking a lot about in my talks also. That I. I give, because it was a really, really first time, um, decisive moment in my career to see what happens if you, if you not follow your own, like dream anymore, which was back then was like, I want to be part of the Red Bull X-Alps.
I want to take part in this race. This was my absolute dream. And it wasn't like a always conscious dream of like, I have to do this and this. Now it just happened because I wanted it. And I went, I got to become a test pilot. I became this and this and this. So things have just aligned in a way that I ended up after four years of paragliding in the Red Bull X-Alps. And then, um, and then what happened was because I was good, Red Bull came in and my mind said, well, the only thing they could want from me is obviously that I win this race now, but for me, the story was totally different. What my, what I really wanted from my heart was taking part in the Red Bull X-Alps. Which I have already done and that's it was in a total conflict between, well, what a cool chance to be a Red Bull athlete and getting all these possibilities, but then having the pressure.
So the next edition was really tough for me. I became, I came in ninth, I think in the end in 2013, and I was really struggling all the time. It didn't feel as good as the first. It wasn't an adventure anymore. It was, it was a really tough. Time for me, this race and, and, and then I moved on in 2015, I was out of the crisis basically again, but the reason was just, um, that I understood, okay, what, what everybody was fascinated about was that with, with the dedication and the goal of you want to go to the X-Alps, then it's possible to do it in only a very short period of time too. Like I could make it in four years and this is actually the story that I'm telling is like, I can.
You can go to, you can reach a goal in very short time if you really want this. And if you really ride on the path and then I, I had, I changed, it changed and it was not on this path anymore. And then I had to change something again, which was like going to Alaska, doing all these adventures again, doing this things that I love to come back in 2015, like super relaxed, super strong again, you know, improved flying confidence and all that.
Was, was the, so it sounds like, was the. The, the big difference was mental. You were still very fit going into 2013, but it was, there was too much pressure. There was too much. Okay. Well, I didn't, I got third last time. Now I'm Red Bull, all this other stuff, all these opportunities, sponsors, that was just too much pressure to, to place well, to not have an adventure. Is that right?
Yeah, absolutely. This is right. This is right. And this is, this is why I'm, why I'm so dedicated also to, to sharing a lot more. Yeah. Than just. Just the, the hard fact stories, because it's all the mental part, you know, like all this, this is really interesting for me to understand when do you perform well and how do you perceive your performance also, because now in this year I was 13, I think, but I don't care. I had a super cool race. I was super happy with my performance. I didn't ever exhaust myself over the limit. I was just had good flights, you know, and if I'm, you know, second or. First, I mean, first is something we don't talk about, right? Because like this place doesn't exist for anybody else than just one person, but everything between second and, and, you know, 15 or last or whatever is cool.
If you, if you liked it, like you did it. How
have you, that's, I mean, that's a really interesting thing. How have you made that change in yourself and embraced it? Because that's, that's quite difficult to do. We all have egos, you know, we, we, you've, you've tasted success. Really more than anybody in the, in the history of the race, you've had three, sorry, four third places, even on the podium four times, which is remarkable.
But how, how do you release that? I've next time I got to do better next time. I got a place better next time. I need the results. Is it age? Is it just because you've got the maturity now? Is it because you've got your kid? Is it, is it the risk? What is it? What, what have you been? Able to do there?
Um, well, I can, I can, I definitely think to understand it, it took a lot of years, so age is definitely a matter here, but just as like Matt, there might be young people listening to this and, um, I can, I can give this advice to, to people. Any, any way is it all, all starts with acceptance, you know, like you, you basically, you just accept the fact that you like it in a different way or you like it the way you like it. And not, and not the pressure from outside, somebody tells you, well, you're only good, you, you only good when you're first, well, you enjoy being, doing an adventure there and not, the goal is not to win only, but still you like, like in my case, for example, I like the, the, the, um, shape of a race, like the, the, what a race gives you, you know, it's a little bit of extra pressure is out of people and all that.
And of course I want to be good. But I'm not the person a hundred percent dedicated and I must win because otherwise I will not be happy. It's just not like that. And I accept, I accept that. And I accept what, what is there. And then I can start from there. I think this is how everything also personal development starts is with, okay, first of all, okay, this is what it is. I cannot, I cannot start fighting. It's that's also how you, you can describe flow in a good way. It's like a water flows through the river. Or also like the air flows around the rock in our sense, like it will not start fighting with the rock, you know, just flow around or something and that's it. Like you, it will not go there and say, no, I'm not going to move on because it's rock, like really a damn rock.
And I'm so, so I think that I love this comparison and I think it's an important, um, step. And then from there you can still decide how your life needs to be, to be. I mean, that's in the end more important than struggling all the time because you're not first.
So 2013, if you want, I mean, typically we've kind of shared a high and a low from each race. And if, if something stands out from 2011, go for it. And if not, I think you've already kind of described 2011 and mostly it was, it was running. You were super fit. You just went for it and you had a really good race. Right. But if you, if you want to go more into it, go for it.
Yeah. I had a, I had a good. I
had a good,
yeah, I had a good race. Um, I, I can share one story, which is like the, the most impressive story. And that also gave me a little bit of more respect even back then. Um, which, which I liked in that, in that way, because, um, well, first of all, we had only one supporter. And back then my girlfriend was my supporter and that was by itself a crazy story because I remember her, you know, like I'm on the mountain. It was mostly raining. It was basically raining every day. And I remember one, at one point being up there and waiting just for that little window when the rain calms down a little bit. I mean, we were flying every day in pouring rain, like that one story comes to another now, but I remember that one moment when, when I was on this mountain and I call her and, and she's crying in the van because she cannot do anything.
And she's just so. Well, and then she's like, I'm going to sleep now. I cannot stand this anymore. Just do whatever you want. And then I flew down and I remember exactly how, how that was, how that was going and the flat. And then I remember Chrigel saying, yeah, when there's so much water in your glider, a good thing is to, you know, like get break the glider. You cannot do that anymore now because the gliders behave differently, but go on the brakes. So the glider goes backwards. And then with that, with that speed, like all the water comes out. And I remember exactly on that day I did that. I broke break and the glider, and then like a waterfall in front of me before the landing, because that makes it safer.
The gliders were really different. I mean, and we can't, we can jump to 2019. I, I, I, I landed on the first day because of rain in the river. And that was a really, really scary situation back then. The gliders were just made. They were made in a different way and they were just flying in the rain, which is fine. And now there's another challenge that is also, you can also handle it, but you have to handle it differently. Um, anyway, that, that is, that is like, that is the one story I can share from 2011. And then the other story, which I wanted to start with was we, we hiked up, um, we went to Dachstein and then towards the main reach of the Alps to. Towards Großglockner, which is a turn point.
And it was a super Föhn day. And I mean, it was my first DxAlps and I was together with Chrigel. I was first on the third, on the second day. And we were hiking almost a hundred kilometers on the second day. I think like really far down Dachstein and then into that valley, or was it 80 or 90? I mean, it was really far and we got up, um, on the next morning to this other side of the Alps and there was the south wind. So strong. I have a video of this and I had it in one of my talks. Maybe, maybe you've seen it years ago. I don't know, but it was so, it was so strong that I basically like, not in my wildest dreams, I would think about taking off there and I'm there with Chrigel and I'm just basically hiding from the wind and, and he stands there and looks around.
And then he like walks away 10 meters with Thomas Derriere back then. And I see them talking a little bit and I, I'm just standing and standing. I'm sitting there with, with Sarah, my support, and we look, and we can't believe that he takes out his glider and takes, takes off. Like it was like the most incredible thing I've seen, really.
There's only one, um, uh, situation that was that impressive. Um, I think of it, thinking of it now, and that was in 2019 when, um, Patrick von Koehnl landed in a, in a, with this accelerated landing. Against like in a little spot where it was hard to land, that was the same kind of impressive next level kind of thing back then, because he just implemented that. But back then with Chrigel, that was cool. And if I haven't seen him again, of course, on the whole race, because he was gone and he won with, I think back then also with two days. Is that the
one didn't tell me get second in 2011 because he basically ran the whole way like you did, I guess.
Yeah, it was, it was, it was cool because in. In 2011, there is, it was still, of course, going to Monaco, the race, and there is this last valley basically leading out to Monaco. It's about a hundred kilometers. And I, um, was, was with Toma in that valley and I was in front of him because I flew over him and at night in the evening, I remember that clearly into this valley. Is that the Isolo, Isolo valley? Yeah, yeah, exactly. The Isolo. Isola valley. Yeah. And yeah, I think it's Isola valley. Yeah, exactly. And then, and then I started running and suddenly Toma comes and he just runs past me and I'm like Toma, it's still 90 kilometers.
He doesn't even turn around. He just runs to goal and he's like five hours ahead of me running to goal or not even five hours because next day I flew to almost to the goal. Yeah. I almost flew to the goal. Yeah. I was just missing nine kilometers and he made it to goal just a couple of hours before. Yeah. Wow. Amazing.
Yeah. What a beast.
Cool to talk about this right now. I'm, I'm getting into all these situations. Everyone, everyone I've talked to has said that
it's, it's neat. It's cool to go back and, and relive these experiences. You think they're gone, but they're still up there somewhere. They're in the, they're in your matter somewhere.
Yeah, I can tell. Maybe that's a good point. I shared this also because in 2011. My expectations were, I get to Mont Blanc maximum, that's all I can do probably. So my, all my plans, all my preparation, and I've never been to Mont Blanc, never been past Mont Blanc in my life before. So that's how far I planned. And then suddenly I find myself at Mont Blanc in second, third position together with Thomas Coconier and I'm like, okay, what am I going to do next? And then back then we didn't have these possibilities to, you know, have. Everything on the phone and just follow each other with just, you know, like you see the track live basically with two second delay now or one second delay and you just fly with the other guys.
But back then we, what we did is we looked at the live tracking and we, we took a GPS and I told Sarah that she should try to redo the track of Chrigel in front of me and put it on my Garmin, which is that big Garmin thing. A big brick. And then all I did was follow Chrigel's line without knowing what, where I'm going or whatever. It's just like, okay, that must be the best option. And so, okay. He took off here, right? I call her like, did he take off here? Yeah, he took off here. Okay. I take off. That was
crazy. That's awesome.
Okay. So now 2013, I didn't know that that was such a hard mental year for you. So, but for those. Listening to just review it a little bit. It was, you guys had kind of a tailwind. It was incredibly good weather, especially for Chrigel. It started getting worse and worse for those behind him. But until this year, that was the record. I think he finished in six days and something hours way ahead of second place. And then, but I, I remember the first, it was down to the Dachstein. It was, it was down the Pensgal up to the Zugspitze. It's a, then I get a little bit more foggy, but the, the weather was, was really good. And there was actually an east kind of a, a light tailwind for the first few days and a lot of sun.
Do I have that right?
Yeah, that's right. And the, the problem was really, I mean, in my flying, I wasn't much better than in 2011, you know, honestly. And also my glider was shit. It was really shit. And I didn't feel good with it. And it, yeah, but I. I made it, you know, I have to be honest that back then also, of course, at Skywalk, there was nobody helping in this direction. It was, you know, like 2011, my glider was even worse, but it didn't matter that much because the weather wasn't good. So, so in 2013, my glider wasn't good and it was very light, but it didn't fly well.
And yeah, like you said, the weather was really good. Yeah. There were a lot of really good pilots. And obviously that threw me back from the beginning. I remember in Binskau, I was washed down in the north wind, in the valley wind at this one pass there. And so then I was standing on the ground while everybody was already flying to Zugspitze. That was more than a hundred kilometers further on this, on this day, on the second day. So that was really depressing. And, and. Thinking of it in the end, um, that's another learning, um, total over planning, like finding security in like finding security in planning, no room for creativity.
This is what happens if you, if you make really, really detailed plans and think that this and this will have to happen like that, there is no room for creativity. And that what happened is what happened to me. Um, I, I knew, okay, I go up here. I glide to there. I go up there. I glide to there. And that's what I did. Exactly. That's what I did. So the cross country was there. Flying possibilities was there, but I didn't fly cross country. I just did hike and fly because that's how I planned. And I was still fast, but of course much more exhausting and much less, um, yeah. Speed. I can
sympathize so much with that because that's exactly my experience in 2017. You know? Uh, in 2015, I had no expectations. I had no idea where I belonged. Uh, I had, and so I just was going purely for the adventure. Just, I didn't know if I was going to be eliminated or if I could do, I didn't care. It was just, I was just in the X ops. It was fantastic. And then when it went well, then of course the next year was all the pressure. It was all the, okay, well if I plan more and strategize more and I wasn't open to the sky. I wasn't open to the observations.
Yeah. It's, it's, that's, that's, that's of course exactly the point. Like the more, the more freedom you have and you know, you can rely on your skills and you can handle every kind of situation, then you'll be able to, you handle the situation according to what is given for you on that typical day. But if you think, no, today the plan was to do that and that, then you live like in a in a psychological way, thinking you live in your head and not in, in the moment. Like you, you're, you're ahead of yourself or you're in behind yourself. You're
not adapting.
You're not in flow.
You're not doing what you know what to do. Exactly. You're fighting against who you are. Yeah. And it,
by the way, this, this also happened to me and just as an example, I, I, I chose to do one of the biggest challenges you can do, flying a Piper Super Cub, which is an airplane.
It's a
single engine, small airplane that flies 130 kilometers per hour from Alaska to Patagonia. If you think of that challenge to plan it, you will have to give up the project because it's impossible to think of every where you will be landing to plan everything ahead. It's just impossible. So in the end I came up with just, I think four points that need to be safe. My airplane, my airplane skills, basically my personal piloting skills, money. And, and the goal. And that's it. And then I can handle every situation that will come. Yeah. Basically. Leave it spontaneous. And maybe Spanish. That was another point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that's how it works. What
was a, what was a memorable, really bad, the worst time in the 2013 race? Was there, was there something that stands out that's just, man, that day was brutal.
That's not a, it's not a, it was not actually not a, um, day, like, like, for me, it was a flying thing. It was that my team, I did it with, with Sarah again, um, and we could use a second supporter. That was the first time we were not supposed to only have one supporter. And that was her brother. And, um, at some point she, she calls me in the race and says, yeah, um, actually is really sick. He needs to go to the hospital. He has a lot of, he has a fever and he can't do anything anymore. And also she doesn't feel well. And they didn't really communicate that with me before. So I, I just knew when it was really bad already.
And so my team was basically, I had the feeling I was not, I was not able, I was not in touch with them. They tried to hide that from me. And so that connection wasn't good anymore. And basically my team fell apart a little bit. Of course they, they pulled through, you know, Sarah was really good. She, she tried to help, but that was, that was also. That's being insecure. Also this was a big issue. And I think that was the most memorable, worst moment when suddenly you hear like, okay, well my team is not there anymore. Basically.
Did he, was he able to come back to, or was it just Sarah that was able to continue on?
Uh, no, he, he came back. I think it wasn't that bad. I don't, I still don't know exactly what, what happened there, but what it, what it, what it really was. But, um, just. Yeah. Just too much pressure, too much, everything.
The team thing. Well, before we get to 2015, the team thing is really interesting to me. It's really interesting, especially for those of you who have done it a whole bunch of times because there seems to be, you know, Aaron took a totally different approach this year. He didn't want pilots on his team. He didn't want anybody with any experience. He wanted to make those decisions and just to shake it up, you know, he's felt like he's been close a bunch of times in the, in the ex-alps, but he's never really been able to have the race that he wants to have. So he wanted to just totally shake it up. But you know, Tom very frequently has just completely changed his whole team and done it with somebody, you know, a whole new group of people. What is your, you know, what's the, for those listening who are maybe thinking about doing the ex-alps for the first time, what's the secret sauce there?
What, what are you looking for in your own team after doing it all these times? What, what works? What's. Yeah.
I think, I think since, since 2015. Um. I
have, um,
I have, I have Werner, Werner Stüttl as my main supporter. And this is for me exactly what I'm, what I'm looking for and what it is, is this dedication. I mean, now, I mean, we've done it so many times that of course now that gets also a little bit of, you know, like, uh, we're getting older, we have other things to do, maybe feeling to it, but, um, but this is like he, when he's, when we start this race, I can a hundred percent. Know that he wants us or me to move being able to be able to move as fast as possible through the Alps. And that's our goal. And like he would do everything for that. He, he had to, can't even describe where I have, I would have to think of a situation where, where this shows, but like they're that you just need somebody that you can trust a hundred percent.
And that. I can. Well, the main point probably is that he can put his own. goals and his personal goals aside and just be your supporter because he thinks that that is the most important thing in that time very cool and
you guys had a bunch of experience together and
You cannot buy, sorry to say that, but you cannot buy that with money. It's impossible. Like, this is not—this is like this amount, maybe it exists, and maybe, maybe some athletes will have it at some point, this kind of money. But, um, this is not—this is also not what it should be. It should be some—it should be real dedication. Um, yeah, and that's, I think, really important.
2015, 2015 was, was my first, uh, 2015 was dominated by very flyable weather, but a lot of wind. Uh, we had a ton of accidents that year, a lot of people had to withdraw, Toma, Tom Michael Gebhardt, others. A lot of headwind, a lot of pretty scary headwind, but you, the one you were pretty close to, you had a, you had a race at the end with Chrigel that was radical, uh, very, very exciting. You actually, I think you got ahead of him at one point, right? And but it was a good, it was a good year, it was a good year for you. It was, it was very flyable for the most part. We had a lot of sun, we just got a lot of wind.
And if you remember, we had three days in the beginning that were crazy hot. Remember the unbelievable heat of the pro hottest days? And I, you know, I, I pulled my first. You and I were both in the top three in the prologue, so we had two night passes, and I made the massive mistake of using my first one, I think it was day three, going into Laramus, and about 10 o'clock at night, it unleashed a storm. I've never seen rain that heavy. I was, I was walking to Laramus on the pavement in a, in a river. It was just, it was about 10 inches deep. I thought, this isn't a good time to use my night pass, this is horrible. But yeah, uh, it was a pretty interesting year. What are, what's a, what's something you remember, maybe a high and a low from the 2015 race?
Well,
The 2015 race was definitely my race. Like, this was my Red Bull excerpts, if I could choose any of these Red Bull excerpts with it that I want to do again, and how it felt to me, and how, how went this was the race, the perfect team setup, you know, first time with Verna and the dedication that I described before, um, the friendship that evolved out of that, and then also the glider I had was the best glider, I think, um, performance-wise, we were just that little bit ahead of everybody else with that technology change at Skywalk, and um, it was still a three-liner, but it was, it could have been a two-liner, we just didn't dare to make it a two-liner back then already, and it was just, um, it was just the perfect race for me, the perfect flow, you know, I, I remember flying, for example, um, to
towards Locarno, but on the one valley to the north, I don't like, um, I don't remember the name of the pass right now, there, but um, you know, Creaky just ahead of us, um, ahead of me, maybe maybe an hour or two hours ahead, and super strong wind, and still, you know, I could just take off and keep up with him. He could, he was not, he was not getting away, you know, and that was just cool. And I mean, now we get, we get, we all get closer to that, um, this year, this year's race, and he had a, he had the same kind of difficulties he had back then with me, I think, and with, with these, um—
difficult weather conditions. Um, that was just right for me; I could, I could just handle it. And that, in that year, and
Uh, a low point. You, you gotta tell about your flight down and through Grenoble and all that stuff. That was, that was pretty amazing, but it was, that was the year, right? I mean, you, you kind of by the live track and you got ahead of him, didn't you, at the end?
Um, I wasn't... I think I was. Well, I was ahead, but the way up right now, okay? Now, it, now the stories come up again here, you know? Good, that took a little bit. I was just now in the, you know, in the overall flow situation of how it went, but of course, there was this, definitely this low point, and maybe that made it that exciting for me and that memorable too, because um, getting to Grenoble, getting to honestly, which was a turn point. I, I cut the corner like I did, I think, in 2013 already, or in 2011? Well, that was in 15, so maybe no, that was the first time I did it. Another time, I think, later on in the year, so I think that was the first time I did it. Another time, I think, around, but back then I cut the corner basically around.
I went to the south of after Matterhorn, which nobody did before, and then went um over the the small St. Bernhard bus, I think. And then came from the backside of Mont Blanc, around Mont Blanc, and that was something that, um, nobody has done before. And it, it actually works just amazing because the thought is, you know, in the morning you have this outflow of the valley and I took off on this pass and I glided just forever in the right direction. And I, it basically is like a present, you know, you cut the corner and then you get this present in the morning of flying 20 kilometers in half an hour towards like where you want to go. And, and you, you seem to be in the totally wrong spot at the wrong time, but this just like that changes everything if you do a move like that.
And anyway, that, that made it possible that I could, um, fly inside the mountains earlier than Chrigel could outside because he chose, chose a line outside and, um, so he couldn't take off that early, and I was already flying for two hours, and then he had to leave Annecy because otherwise I would have caught up with him, and he just managed by an hour or something to fly away before I came there and took off again and What he did then, he flew into the high mountains. Actually, he changed the system again because first I was in the high mountains and he was in the and and he was in the lower mountains, and then he flew into the high mountains. I thought, well, I mean there is this perfect line, and I was actually influenced by by Clément Latour from 2013, who did this line.
He's a local there, and he flew outside. He came second in 2013, and he flew on that, good on one of those good days, he flew very much on the outside, like around through
Saint Hilaire and, um, all the
Yeah, West, exactly. And on, yeah, exactly, and on there, and and so in 2015, I thought, well, this, I remembered this line, and and and I saw Chrigel going in there, well, perfect. I just go, I just go there, and I will have a chance to fight with him, um, because on the same line, I thought, well, I will not be able to catch him, you know, which hindsight, that is a that was the mistake, you know, because is hindsight the right word? I mean, this is just okay, looking back. Yeah, so so what I did, I flew in those mountains, and it was working really, really well, and as you said, I was even like looking just on the tracks, I even caught up with him, and I was in front, and then suddenly like everything switched, and the wind got super, super strong.
and I was scared to death, being blown around like a leaf in the flatlands, having basically no way of trying of of even sticking to my path. I was just like blown out into the into the flatlands, and I was really like, okay, I just want to land and not die. It got really bad, and the next day, um, also I have I remember that really well because I did a lot of talks, and there's this situation of with this one clip in there like the the leaves are just flying and the the wind is blowing, and I I had no chance to fly anymore out there. I was just outside, and um, so on that day before when this happened, I was obviously in the second position or fighting for the first one, and then on that one day I was basically stuck, and this we we had an advantage of one day I was in or Chrigel and I were in front one day, a full day in front of the German guy, I forgot his name, who came second then.
And then all the other group of Aaron and Antoine and Gaspar, exactly. So, obviously, these other guys were flying in the mountains and they were catching up really quick. Like on that one day, I went from having a chance to win, a little bit of a chance, maybe. I mean, it's Chrigel, right? We know that. But there was a little bit of a chance to, I'm sixth now. And there was more than a day of a gap between. So, we were fighting. We were... Basically, making one day of head, of being ahead and then losing it within one day.
So, I was basically like on the position. I mean, I moved forward. But anyway, so I was fighting really hard to get to a good point. And actually, yeah, you know, being on the mountain next to all these other guys, you know, just so Chrigel. And one more guy wearing gold. But place three, four, five, six were still possible. And although I was taking a night pass and I was walking like really all night to get to this takeoff in the morning at like nine, I wanted to be there. And I never slept more than, I think we did a rhythm of like 15 to 20 minutes and then hike again 10 kilometers and then 15 to 20 minutes.
And we pulled it off. And the next day, I remember taking off and being able to just deliver my flight. And this is why maybe this XF was so memorable for me. Because even after all this, I didn't get distracted from these other guys. I just flew down to like three or four kilometers before pay, before goal. And in like, I think 10 or 15 kilometers before goal, you know, you get out to into the sea breeze there. And I remember Aaron being next to me and just, he sees the goal and he's like, okay, now the final glide starts.
And he's like, and he just lands.
That was really funny. I have to talk about that with him. He just lands and then. And then obviously he starts running. And if you want to do it flying wise, you really have to fly patiently. You have to find your way through that headwind. And I did all that. And just a few kilometers before goal, I remember that my supporters told me, you know, Aaron is running like crazy, but you can't, you can't measure this because the roads go like really windy. So he actually had still four hours of work ahead of him. But it looked like. He caught me now. And so they called me and then they, they kind of made me a little bit crazy. So I took a wrong decision in the end and I landed in a foreign bush, you know, like really long.
And I had one in my leg, you know, we pulled it out afterwards and my glider was stuck in this. And I even have a helicopter video of this because it was obviously just two or three kilometers, four kilometers air distance from the goal. But anyway. I had to pull this glider out and I could have flown to goal for sure if I just take more time. But anyway, they go totally crazy and say, yeah, now you have to run and you have to run. And my backpack, that was also the year when a week before the race, I saw my own backpack, super lightweight. Like it was, it was just like paper thin, like the 27 gram material I took the whole, and it was just falling apart.
So we basically did a. A piece of rope around, wrapped around the rope so I can have it on my back. First, I was just carrying like that, but on my, in my hand, but then we figured out because of these, all these turns, it's still seven or eight kilometers to goal and not just three on the direct line. So we started, okay, we need to pack this up and we, the backpack all broken apart. And anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm running like crazy to goal and make third place. Although. All these competition, um, just came up in the last day because of that one mistake of getting into the exposure of this crazy wind
crazy down and up at the same time. I mean, I remember that I don't think people appreciate those roads down there. I remember I, I tried so hard to get ahead of Ferdy because I thought I really was ahead of Ferdy the day before. And I got caught in this crazy wind. I think you and I talked about it in, in Monaco that the night. And, and I was really as close that I've ever come to dying paragliding. I really thought I was going to die. And, uh, and then, and so when I landed crashed more or less, uh, you know, holy cow. I'm okay. I thought we had really bad sell. This is back in Vars. And I thought that Ferdy and Nick were so far behind. And the last report I'd gotten was that they were both on the ground. So, okay.
I can rest. I'll launch again when the wind backs off and everything will be fine. Well, he flew over my head and I was so angry about it that I was just convinced I could get them. And I, you know, the solo Valley you're talking about. I flew, I landed at eight 59. I had this amazing flight, but I was still 19 K behind them. And I mean, my mind, I thought I I'll run, I'll get them. I'll get them. And of course I did it. But the next day we learned about this little launch that was just across from pay. One of those ridges that goes, that's facing south towards the med and I flew and I. I was terrible. I was so exhausted. I couldn't make it work. And I just bombed out. And when I bombed out, it was, you know, on the live tracking, I was three K away from pay. But the walk was 14 K and 3000 feet of gain.
And I just started crying. I thought it's not possible. It's right there. I could see the fucking thing. It's not possible. It's so, and
it's super hot. It's
a hundred
degrees. It was
just, no, it's not. This,
this area is a struggle, but it, it was like really now how it is right now, the race is also fine, but this was a special thing, you know, going to Monaco and having this final challenge of all these bushes where you cannot land, where you cannot take off, where it's super hot, where the roads are like, like you said, like 10 kilometers for a two kilometer distance, straight line distance and stuff like that. It was.
It was
a really cool part of, yeah, it was
tough. I mean, it was, it was always fascinating walk, looking at the track logs of how Chrigel would do that swim upstream thing down there. It was, you know, just consistently he'd fly in there and it was, that's a rough go. I had this, yeah,
in the, in 2000, in 2011, um, that was, I mean, in 2009, he was the first one to really fly to goal. That was something people were talking about that afterwards. Like how, how did you do it? Is this impossible? Everybody thought it's impossible to fly against the sea breeze to the sea. It's not possible. And then he tried to explain that, you know, we talked about it and he said, yeah, well, you're, you're basically just finding that line where, where it's lee side, but it's, it's possible because of the thermals and you, that's the line you have to take. And he just figured it out, you know, like he just didn't expose himself to the wind, to the headwind. He just flew where it's just lift and not headwind.
And, and this is, this is what we learned over the years. Like the flying has improved in that way a lot. Like things like that, the imagination we have, or at least that's how I see it has changed from, okay, there's a headwind. It's not possible to, okay, which way can I go to make it possible? Where is that? Where is it possible? And it is possible. There's always a, there's always a way we just have to figure it out and this will develop more. We'll get better in this kind of way of flying. It doesn't, it shows also, of course, in, in further flights, but it's, it's a, it's also a different way of flying this kind of cross country flying in, in areas that you don't know with winds that you cannot see.
It's just like, it's a development, like towards becoming more like a bird, but of course being really far away from it, but you know, and this is, this is what Chrigel did. He did 10 years ago already. So of course he's ahead, still, he's still ahead, but he understood back then what we understand now. This
is a good segue to 2017 because I remember he, he, that was his whole principle there. I learned in 2015 at the media event, sitting next to him at the hangar that he didn't scout. And I thought that was, cause I, I would, I had been there for a month and a half scouting and I said, wow, really? You don't, you don't scout? He said, no. Because. Yeah. The race is different when we start in a week than it was back in May. It's not the same. The conditions aren't the same. And I don't want to have any preconceived notions about what works versus what doesn't. And in 2017, he's, he didn't scout. He never does. And, and he was, but he asked a lot of the athletes who had scouted about the guard at turn point. How do we get to the guard at turn point?
And everybody told him it's impossible. You can't do it. There's too much wind coming off the flats. The flats from Venice, it's, it's always south and we're going dead south. It can't be done. And then of course he did it, you know, because he just didn't want it.
Yeah. Because that's, it's actually what we said before. It's exactly what we said before now described in Krieger's words. You don't want to be, you don't, you don't, you want to be free in your head for all the possibilities and being able to perceive the moment and not being saying, you know, it's not possible anyway, and your head keeps telling you it's not possible. It's not possible. And then you're not even able to see what the chances that are there, that is, that is all, that is it. And if we learn more and more about that, then we can, like the best example for me is like you, you, for example, checking the weather, I check the weather in the morning to see, to take a decision, do I go up the mountain or not?
But once I'm up the mountain and once I'm flying. Really? Really. I mean, of course, some weather changes might be interesting to know, but in general, I don't need to check the weather anymore because I, I see everything. I see any change. I see clouds developing. I see every, if I know that there is, if, if my supporter tells me, okay, the weather says there is going to be a thunderstorm at this and this time and this and this location, my whole thing will change to the negative for sure. Because I will be always in. My head, you know, there will be a thunderstorm. This is dangerous. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Stop, stop, stop, stop. But if I'm just flying there and I see a big cloud developing, I can still take the decision.
Well, this cloud is too big for me. And then I land, you know, or I feel a headwind or even, even a, a gust front, even with that, you can, you can, you feel it. It's, it's going to be there and you will be able to feel it. And then you can take, you can do something in that moment. And that's. Of course, super fast changes. I don't say everybody should do that because you need to be able to react really fast and take the right decision really quickly. That is a matter of experience, but, but being always preconceived, I think that's the right word, um, with everything. And, you know, being, you know, this could happen and this could happen is basically fear. Then it's fear based and fear. What is fear? Fear is always just a thought.
So you're thinking of it. And then. It, that's not a, that's not a positive, um, way of thinking out of fear.
2017, just to review. So people, it was much different weather than 2015, uh, especially early. There was a lot of thunderstorms, a lot of cloud, a lot. I can't remember if the fern was really bad that year. Uh, I don't remember, but I remember a lot of thunderstorms. Only two people made it in. Although you were. Basically. On the beach, you had another really good race. And third, this was the first time we really saw, you know, Ben was incredibly fast ability on the ground. And we had that crazy blow out of the mountains that Chrigel had, you know, he was going a hundred and something kilometers an hour getting blown out into the flats and the Italian flats. So the end was brutal, uh, especially for those in the lead, which was interesting for those in the back.
It was kind of one of the first times where you could. You know, the weather in some sense was, was worse for you guys out front once you got to Matterhorn, cause it was so windy and it was, it was pretty, pretty tough flying those last couple of days. But do you have a recollection of, of a great memory and a, you know, a good day, a bad day kind of thing.
It's good. It's good that you just summed up the whole race a little bit because you said 2017, what happened? I was like, what? I don't, I don't know. I don't know. It wasn't 2017. I have no idea. That was the day you
took the Southern lakes route. That's where you crushed it. Right. That was amazing. Exactly. That was awesome.
That was, that was, that was a lot of good things in 2017, but, um, let's start with the bad or not with the bad, uh, with a learning process. I, I, I chose to go, um, because I know that I'm, I'm not a very structured person. I like to be, you know, in, I call it in my flow and being able to, you know, just navigate. My life and everything, like I want it, but I, I thought I need somebody in my team who puts a lot of, gets a lot of structure in there. And so I, I put that, I had that person with me. Um, and that made that, that made a good learning, you know, again, for, you know, you cannot, you cannot plan, you cannot plan. Like you said before, you cannot plan everything.
That's what he did. And we, and that was another step towards. I need even more. More freedom, more freedom in my races. Um, but that's just that that's just one point. Um, on the other hand, um, I managed a good compromise in planning and still being able and free to, to decide on a point. So, so it was, it was a very intense learning race, a very, a change, a changing kind of race. So 15 was kind of my race, surprisingly well, You know, back from 13, where there was the low point, finding the freedom again by, you know, going my way, which was actually going to Alaska and flying an airplane and going in full adventure mode. And, and then having a good race in 2015 and, um, in 2017.
Yeah. The field became really strong, lots of young guys. Simone Oberana was there for the first time, for example, and, um, really strong flying and a good back and forth for me. Um, in the race, and in, and then we came down to where also a decisive part of the race this year was happening, that's Lake Como and Lago Maggiore, or Lago Como, Lago Maggiore, very big races, uh, big lakes, sorry. Um, and I decided on a, on a non-thermal day to go straight over the lakes, basically, which allowed me to do hike and fly, you know, hike up, fly over the lake, like up, fly over the lake, and like that. I came from a position, I think, like somewhere in the top 10 to the third position, I think, if I remember that right.
Um, and, and that was cool because the other guys were in, in the, um, in a valley, Sondrio valley, where you can just run, because just as a, as a, as a little calculation thing, like you can run up a thousand meters and glide 10 kilometers in the same time, basically. That you can run 10 kilometers in the flat, so, so there's no point in a straight valley with just mountains on the side to hike up a mountain and then fly. I mean, you can do it for fun, but it will not give you an advantage, except if you get a little bit of a thermal or something. And, and so that, the point is, you always need a mountain in front of you that you can go up straight in the direction you want to go to, and then fly down in the direction you want to fly to.
It's an advantage again, and I chose that line that was like that, so I could always hike up a mountain in the direction I wanted to go and then fly, and that, and that's how that's how I got a little bit of an advantage again. So that was cool. I have a nice video, on a nice vlog of that, except on my YouTube channel. I think it's called "Lake Hopping," if you want to look for it on YouTube on my channel. And that, that is, that you had a great vlog, you did.
A vlog every day of that race, and they're amazing. I saw your talk here when you were in Sun Valley, and you showed a lot of that. It was just beautiful. But that, did that, did that lakes move was that something that just occurred to you on the spot, or was that something you had in your back pocket thinking beforehand? Yeah,
That's what I had in my back pocket. This is what I wanted to say, so it was a good mixture between having those plans in my back pocket and knowing, okay, if the chance is there, I will be able to do it. And that's what happened there. I compared to, like I said, 2013, when I only had these plans and I wasn't able to say, okay, today is a different day, I don't need the plan, I just go, like it comes. And then two more interesting stories there. I think in 2017 was when, when we came towards the turn point from the south. Um, yeah, that was, that was interesting because there was a lot of north wind. I remember that. And like you said, the wind was getting really strong, and I remember for the first time take being able to do what, what we do now.
Like I described it before, the first time being on the, on the, on the most, um, inside part of the Mattohon valley of the, um, from the south. What's this called? Not the other one? Yeah, yeah, so bad with names.
Corval, Corval, yeah, yeah, south side of the matter, or yeah?
It will come, it will come. Anyway, I'm all the way tucked into the big mountains; they are coming from the east, and the turn point was put in a way so it was a little bit in the middle of the valley. And so my plan was to go to the turn point and then just fly out, and and it wasn't possible; I would have landed if I go just straight to the turn point. So what I did, and that, and that was really the experience and the and the development of my own flying style. I went there and I crossed to the other side of the valley, all way away from where I wanted to go. I wanted to go basically south, but I had to go northwest to be able to be in the lee side to find a thermal there and fly out the valley in the thermal line.
And this was a really like for me personally a changing point, as I said, Creaky did this in 2011 already and in 2009, and also um, yeah, yeah, he, that's that was why he's so good, you know, he's that one step ahead. But I remember really clearly that day When, when I took that decision, okay, now I need to go with the flow of the air. The flow of the air goes that direction, I take that, and then I fly out and I make it to the point I want to go to, but in a total like roundabout way, going around, you know, like 20 kilometers more, but still going there. And, and so that was, was really amazing, and I remember that moment really well, although maybe, you know, it was not for any, for the outside viewer, or for anybody, it was probably not that special, but for me, it got really stuck, stuck, it stuck with me.
And, and then of course comes this flat part where the fastest line was just a hundred kilometer run, and I remember exactly was the same day of what, of the story that I just told you, I land in the flat after a good day, and um, really land like also like five minutes to nine, like perfect timing, perfect glide, 20 kilometer evening glide out into the flat, and I land, and then my supporter comes and says, "Well, now it's a hundred kilometer to your next takeoff, okay?" Good, so I thought, I'm going to sleep now. And then, no, it's a hundred kilometer to your next takeoff. And so, yeah, we make a plan.
Night pass, everybody takes the night pass, and we run. You know, like what I always do is like make a real, a plan, like 10 kilometers running, 10 to 20 minutes of break, and that move, that goes on and on and on. And that's, that's how you get through. And then you will be there. And that's also an interesting story, and it's a little bit, it's a little bit secret story. But anyway, we get up to, um, that one pass like leading again over the mountain because we cross, we go across, and then we have to go over the Alps again one more time to go to Monaco, basically. And there's a long pass leading up there, and we
have to go to the Alps again, and then we have to go to the Alps again
And um, Chrigel took the same way, and also Benoit, um, was already there, um, that day in the morning, so he already flew to goal. And and I was in third position, and I was really, really tired. And back then, we, we started trying, you know, different things, for example, ayurvedic stuff, you know? So, so food changed, like, and some oils, you know, every day I get some ayurvedic oils on my body and so calm down. And for me, it worked really well, so I really good experience with that. But there was this, this girl with me besides, um, um, my girlfriend back then, and as a supporter, and they took care of this kind of stuff, and she was like, "Yeah, let's try this, maybe this makes it better." We put some of this oil in Paul's ears, and so she puts the oil in my ear and I get totally like I was
It's a strange story; I've never told this story to anybody. And so I hike after, like, being already totally in a delirium. The delirium gets really, really bad, and I'm just like, hiking, hiking. I don't see anything anymore, and I'm like, totally bad. And then just like, like, we were planning to still make an evening flight from the pass towards Monaco and then run again over the night. So I hike up the the pass, and it gets really late, and we're like, okay, I will not be up there before five or six in the evening. So, well, motivation is really low, and I remember I go and I stop, and I, I want to pee, and I pee, and then boom, total clearness, like, like the clear, like the clearest vision of the world again.
I'm totally there. It was, I don't know, such a weird experience. But, um, I still don't know what kind of oil it was. It was like a some ayurvedic oil with some like, um, mushroom oil. I don't know, I don't even know what that was. I have to, to figure it out, but that was impressive. And then I was totally fit, and I run up the last 1000 meters to the takeoff, and and take off, and I start soaring around, and I'm like, okay, it's not gonna work. Like, I'm flying against the valley breeze. I'm gonna land straight on the bottom of the pass. And I see my supporters driving away down the pass on the on the side of Monaco, and I'm like, well, it's not gonna work anyway.
I top land and I top land and I instantly fall asleep.
And they're like, "What is happening? Where is he?" So they come back, and then it was like seven or something. I get into the van, fall asleep right away. Like, they take me in the van, I, I eat something, and I sleep until five in the morning when we can start hiking again. And, and this guy I took with me, I started before talking about him, he was very structured and he had this plan ready. And if we had only time till 11 a.m, that the limit was 11 a.m, then the race was cut off. So I had, I had there was another 100 kilometers to goal, and basically I had time to 11 till 11, or 80 kilometers to goal or something. And he made a perfect plan. You know, you have to run from 5 a.m. to this point, then you glide down, you run again.
I think the plan was involving 4,000 vertical meters, and I don't know x kilometers of running, and I say, "You know, you know what? Doesn't mean that much. I don't want to say the F-word, F you. I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna do my own thing." And then something really cool, really, really cool happened because I, I start hiking at six, you know, taking it easy, looking at the Google Earth, and this mountain with a slope facing north because it was very strong north wind, of course, in the morning outflow of the mountains, you know? And then a north phone situation implemented itself. So I'm on this place, and at 7:30 or something, or 8, 7:38, I take off and I soar, and I basically soar and soar and soar, and I keep soaring towards Monaco.
In the morning at 7:30, and by 10, by 10, the thermals start kicking in and everything turns around, and I get it mid-air. I'm soaring, switching to the south sides, taking the thermals, and at 11, when the, when the, when the cutoff is there, they tell me, "Okay." My supporters told me, "Okay, because of some festival in Monaco, there's an airspace in the one, and some kind of launch is closed or something, something like that was going on." And I'm like, "You know, guys," f that
I'm just gonna land on the beach and I made it to the sea, you know the slogan of the Red Bull, except this glacier to see. And for me, this was the perfect experience, like I knew I flew from, I flew almost 100 kilometers from 7 in the morning till 11 and land on the beach. It was ending, for sure, one of the most, most impressive flights of my life, and I think like, this is, this is what is possible. This is possible. You can go and use that flow of air that changes all the time, and you can be there and just use whatever is there and make it, make it till 11 from the highest points of the mountains to the sea. Super cool, of course. The rewards were like, he didn't make it, you know, we didn't fight enough, whatever.
I landed on the beach, yeah.
That's a man. That's an awesome ending, fantastic. Okay,
2019, they're thinking of it now. Really cool, thanks for reminding me of this. I haven't thought about that for a while. That was
Not that ending I had. I was, I ran a marathon the night before and the next morning just to stay ahead to get 13th or something. Just, what am I doing? This is so stupid. But, uh, so the 2019 was an interesting year. It was, I in all my xops experience, there was no radical weather. I know there were some, I know that I heard a story from Eduardo that he was in a pretty bad gust front and, uh, you know, there were certain, there's always some bad weather, but I don't remember ever walking up anything and not being able to just instantly launch the the the. In some ways, the race was defined by the crazy stability and heat of the last few days where, you know, tons of people top landed Mont Blanc.
I think, uh, Toma got to six thousand something meters around Monta Visa, which was one of the turn points. So it was, it was a pretty interesting race and the last one that went to Monaco, yeah.
That was, I remember that really well. That day, when the the high cloud base was there, um, things developed. The sport developed. Patrick von Kenel was also there, you know, young people that fly really, really well that have different style suddenly appear and and they're there. You know, we are all there around Mount Visa, a group of, you know, six or I don't know a number, but but a lot of people flying after all these days very close to Monaco together and um, I the day before, I remember I had a really, really good and but very tough flight against very, very strong south wind, um, out of Briancon, I think, to Briancon there from the pass out.
Like, I, I remember I've never, I think I've since then never been flying in Monaco. I've never been flying in Monaco. I've never been flying in fighting that much against wind, flying against wind. That was my most impressive flight against wind for myself, you know, like always pushing full speed bar, getting around the corner, soaring up, pushing again. Very impressive, very cool for myself, like my, my personal feeling, and that put me, I think, in, in, in the third position again or something. So I felt quite comfortable of being of having pushed that way and we get to Mount Visa turn point and I remember going up to that pass, and then that the radius was just there. So I think, okay, I'm just gonna soar up, fly to the radius, and come back. But what I didn't get, what I didn't understand, or just I didn't have in my overview of things, was that by flying over this pass to the other side into the radius, I was, I was um overflying or changing the side of the the Alps, like I was basically going from the north side of the main ridge or the west side, and then I was flying to the other side of the Alps, and I the main ridge of the Alps to the east side of the main ridge of the Alps.
And this always involves a change, like every time there is different air mass on the one side, on the other side there's always um different kind of flying situation. And so um when I was, so I was back down, I was down there suddenly, and the other guys, they went one valley um more to the to the east or north, but they stayed on the on the
east side of the Alps, and I was flying to the east side of
the west side of the main ridge of the Alps and take the turn point from there, all flying. So I messed up again, which is kind of a standard in my, I don't know what, like I like it that way. Or I said before, acceptance is the first point to be happy, I think so. I have to accept that this is the I take, and so I'm in the leading position and suddenly everybody flies past me again and I have to walk midday to over the pass, basically back to the other side of the Alps, and the other guys up at 4500 meters or something flying above me. But I didn't really understand that it's that kind of a day. It was still not, I couldn't still figure it out because on the ground it was super strong, super windy, and I needed to find a takeoff and I took off and I flying, I was flying out a little narrow valley
And there was no way to make it out, and suddenly I look up and I see these little, little dots above me, flying over me, and I'm like, "Fuck, this is not like I thought it's unflyable." That day, it was super strong wind in the valleys, and I say, "Okay, I have to get into the air." So I hike up on the really, like, the most sun-exposed side on the valley side, and I say, "Okay, my there's only one goal right now is to make altitude, to get up as high as possible." And I start turning, turning, turning, and it goes up and up and up, and I'm like...
I don't know what to do again, and then all of a sudden I'm
at 4,000 meters and I'm like, okay, my, we have these skywalk harnesses, have this air protection, you know, and because of the less pressure, outside pressure, this thing blows itself up and I'm sitting in there with my back like that. I'm like, okay, I must be really high. I get really scared because I think this thing is going to explode and super crazy situation. And you remember, so like somewhere around 4,500 meters, I say, okay, it's enough. Like there's no point in going higher. And like you said, Toma that day, he went super high and I said, it's enough. It doesn't, it doesn't help anymore because there was then there was a lot of wind also at this altitude. So the balance between, okay, I get blown in the wrong direction and then have to make it against the wind anyway.
So anyway, I said, okay, well, I go and I catch up with these guys. Again. And in the evening, actually, I'm, I land with Patrick von Koehnel. He's already there. And all these guys are just around me and it's really cool. And we get to basically, again, the last turn point, which was one of those mountains on the outside. Yeah, south of Barcelona. I forget what
that term, white mountains. Yeah, south of Barcelona. White. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
And, and so we, in the evening, I did a really, really strong push up that mountain and, and I fly down on the other side, no idea where, where all the other guys are. And I land and I land right next to Benoit on the road. Like, oh, cool. What are you doing here? And so we, from that moment on, we basically, we're together and we're like, okay, well, let's, let's see what happens, you know, the next day. Let's try to make it to Monaco. And we hike in the morning and, you know, everybody looks at each other. What is he planning? You know, are we actually racing here? Are we doing this together? And it's like, and are we sharing our ideas or not?
And, and anyway, we take off and he knows that area really well. He's from this location there. And he knows every mountain, he has a really good plan. And I say, well, I try to follow you. And of course he pushes. And I had a problem with my glider. I had a cut in my glider. So whenever I used to accelerate, it wasn't flying well anymore. I lost like one or two glide points, not points, but like total numbers. I was really, I was just like going down. So I couldn't keep up with him. So we had to fix that. I figured it out. Sometimes you put some tape on it and supporters on the way. And so anyway, we, we raced together and we did a couple of hike and flies because as you said, it was stable. And, and then we made it on a cliff launch, really, really cliff launch.
We took off. I remember that really well and everybody thought we were crazy, but we, we made it out and we flew thermal wise really, really well. I think to almost 30, just 30 kilometers. That's my memory now, but I have no idea about the concrete correct numbers towards the goal. And it's, it's second of, um, uh, it's about, uh, so about the third place, you know, we're fighting for the third place. I think who was, who was second?
I was just, I knew you were going to ask me. But anyway, let's keep on with
the story. So we, we were actually fighting for third place and, and I, I see him because he knows it's always like, like we come back to the same point here, you know, you know, something and you think it has to be like that again. And I see him landing there in front of me on a big flat plateau and he lands and, and I come behind him and I understand I could go up in thermals higher and in flight. I just over him and I see him in front of me landing. And I'm like, well, why is he landing? He must have a reason to land. So I land with him because I didn't know where I am. I have no idea what's the best ways and he must know some secret or maybe I didn't see an airspace or whatever. So I land with him and we, we run.
And at some point we look at each other and say, well, this is stupid. You know, we basically, after, I don't know how many days we're trying to raise each other. On this. And let's just, let's just try to get to goal and not be caught up by the other guys from behind because they were pushing also. They were really coming close. As I said before, the last, the day before we were all together in the evening. But, um, and then we said, okay, let's do this together. And from there on, we were really, he was showing me the takeoffs. We were gliding together. We're doing crazy things together, really, and pushing really hard. And we decide on the way to the goal. Even if. If the organizers will try to make this different, we're going to go basically arm in arm and sign with the same time so that they cannot say anything and we will share the third place.
And that's what we did. And that was one of the best sporting experiences for me, for sure, because there was just this, this free, this freedom of like leaving behind the stress of the race and just doing this adventure together. Yeah. That was very memorable
point. And the, in the history of the race was the sportsmanship and the look on your guys' faces. You're both sunburned. And I just looked at that. That was a great way to add a beautiful moment in sport. Not just the XF, just in sport in general. Okay. Jeez, you've done a lot of these, uh, 21. That was my last one. And the 21 was, let's see, I can't even remember it now. 21, it was fiercely bad weather. In a lot of places, uh, a ton of fern, uh, a lot of very stormy conditions, a lot of reports of several accidents, uh, but also a lot of reports of just hairy flying.
Uh, I know that I, myself had some flights that were really very borderline, uh, but, and then once again, I think this was the first year that Chrigel really had a run. For his money, uh, you know, at least up through day seven where, you know, that kind of top 10 was really moving around a ton. And then Chrigel did just an unreal magic move at the end. It took a very different line and, and left everybody in the dust. But, uh, you had a, uh, another very cool experience. I remember your video at one point, one of my funnest videos I've seen in the X house was you. And you're, you're doing this, you know, to the camera talk, I think you're up somewhere around the backside of Mont Blanc and you say, yeah, so the weather this way looks pretty good, but unfortunately, and you turn it around, unfortunately, I got to go that way and it looks really bad.
That was a great
video. Yeah. It's cool that you, it's cool that you remember that because yeah, that was, that was a kind of. Not a good situation because I was up at 3000 meters and it was 9 PM and so it involved some like another very good trail and anyway, but that was just, that was of course an exciting moment. But I think the really, really, really big thing about the 2011, uh, 2021 except for me was that I broke my foot in, in March, I think, or April, May, June. Yeah. I think just like, like the.
Like the end of the
last year, so the first year, so
it was really, really,
really good.
I think.
It's like, I think it's
amazing. I think it's just, it was really, really, really good. I think the, it's just the first year that I
was able to actually get more exercise
and And the last year, like probably a year before, I
was able to go to the gym.
and do like one or two
exercises a
week. And
the last year, like
it was really,
really, really good. I mean, I'm and I'm still
a good
person these days. But, and I think that's, I think there was a moment where
I was saying that I had a bad knee, I went to the gym and
I was
like, okay,
I'm going
to do
this. Little bit of that of training, that would be good. Just hike up that, and it was fresh snow, and I hike up my classic ski tour and I ski down, and it was totally foggy and I didn't see a cliff and I fell over the cliff and and hit a hit my on my land on my foot without knowing where the ground will be, so I was just free falling and it broke, and it broke my carbon ski boot in two pieces, like it was really big impact, and that was like, okay, I'm not gonna be able to take part in this race. Um, really down, but a lot of good preparation, good physiotherapy, and I think, yeah, I don't know, one week or two week before the race we decide, okay, let's let's do it.
Could be that after one day we'll be out of the race, or after two days, and um, that would be okay. Um, we're just gonna do this. In the way that is possible, and it was the first time that I, I did this race basically without physical preparation. I was not physically prepared; I could not do anything. Like, for eight weeks before the race, I was not able to do anything. Just a week before the race, I took my, my backpack and I hiked up like 500 meters and flew down. Okay, done. And we get to the race and, and, um, and the, the, the, of course, the, the
strategy was to fly, like, really fly, like, whenever it's possible, fly and just hike upwards because that's what I can do, well, usually from experience. And, and then, surprisingly, the race was really good, but I couldn't, I never had the possibility to push, really, like, I could before. Or whenever there was like a flat day, I was not like I did before. You know, now you have to push those 30k and you just run it. Like this year, for example, with Tim, we just run 30k. Like that, back then I was like, "Okay, well I'm... I have no idea if my body breaks apart or not, so I'm not just... not gonna run, I'm just gonna hike 10 kilometer, 10k easy, and then see from there." And so this is...
this was... this was what happened. So this was why I was also not in the first, first group, but I could still keep up with the guys more or less. And then at was very decisive because, um, I remember getting to the Mont Blanc west side, northwest side, um, just an hour behind Simon over on, and he got a thermal there and flew basically straight over Mont Blanc that day, um, and in the morning of that day we had a 50k, um, uh, 40k, uh, distance difference Then it was just an hour—was it 30k? Then it was just that hour, but this hour led to him being in the end in goal, or almost 300 kilometers ahead, because that was the first time we changed also the route, and route change meant weather in the Alps always comes, or weather generally comes from the west.
So first you move through the weather, going from the east to the west, so weather passes fast; but then you move with the weather from the west to the east. So these guys that made it over Mont Blanc, so these guys that made it over Mont Blanc in the front, they were in the good weather, and everybody else was in the bad weather, and that didn't change basically because we were also, we were all basically moving with the weather. And so that was really the first time that was so, so obvious what this change in the route meant. It meant this, you know, you had to be in the good weather on the way back, or, or you're in the bad weather, and Kriegling made, made the best out of this, of course. Like, you had to be in the good, he understood that before, um, everybody else.
Always needs to learn from experience, I think.
And um, so we were like, Aaron and I and Toby. Toby, we were really fighting like from the from Mont Blanc back. Was a really, really, really tough race with a lot of wind, with a lot of experiences that were on the edge, but yeah, also interesting. And in the end, although I had this broken leg, I was, I think I came seventh in the end, so for me, total success. I had that
Grace, great race. The last day, right up until 11 o'clock, I was watching you. Uh, was it Manuel you're racing, Manuel, right? Yeah, he went on foot all night and you guys were just in very kind of different positions and just—oh, it was a cool race. You almost got him. That looked like a lot of fun. So, 23 was, you know, this is really fresh on everybody's mind, but the movie just came out, I think, yesterday. So I'd love to hear something that maybe people don't know about that happened to you or your team, or just something that's still fresh, obviously.
But, but maybe you know, because we all just watched it, we were, you know, I was there, I get to experience it with you guys, which was really fun. But I think it's a really cool race and I think it's a really, uh, you know, you, other than the obvious stuff, you know, you had the—you had the—the mistake going into Wargrind, uh, and so you were a little off the back, but then you did some great catching up and then, you know, it was—it was yet another good race. I mean, like you said, you were really happy with it at the end, but anything just kind of out outside the box that people don't know about, just
My general impression of the race was, it was overwhelmingly good from flying, like for me, like from my coming from where I where we started in the beginning from 2011, where was not a pilot, I would say, um, the development was there. Obviously, I could keep up with all these pro pilots that live like that's, that grew up with a glider, now basically that's who, who's playing in the front there, um, that's, that is good for me. I could, I could do it, I could fly with them, that was really cool. So for me personally, to see this development, I'm happy about, um, but for me was just like, I want a day of flying like that, and then a day of being having to push on the ground, you know, taking good strategic decisions, being more like in also the, the footwork adventure, basically I would
Imagine, it must have been. I... what I'm hearing from you is, it was frantic. And I mean, just, just in my role, just trying to keep up with you guys, frantic. It was just frantic for six, seven days. I... what the the market made on me was that second, the day after Crego got in, when 17 of you got in with in the same day. That... that's that's crazy. That's just unbelievable to race 1200k, which is really 2000k, and everybody gets in the same day. That just was
Uh, I mean, I was, I was six hours behind the second one, I think seven hours or something after all this time. So the performance, this is, this is where it's not
possible, no one could predict that that could ever happen. It just doesn't, it just kind of defied all the. Here's how this race works: well, not this year.
Yeah, yeah, so so I was, I was coming in 13th and I was still, um, just six or seven hours, I don't know exactly, but behind the second one. So that the group, the field was incredibly strong, um, always like strong. I mean, they were always kind of like matching each other, um, and but that made a difference, of course. You had to push all the time, like crazy, to be able to do that. But on that very last day, I think it was between nine or or eight and and 13, we were one group together in the morning. Like it was Aaron, it was Tommy, um, Sep, yeah, I don't remember, but like we were a big group starting in the morning, uh, doing this one last, um, main ridge of the Alps crossing flight to the goal.
And then we all arrived there, um, very, very impressive weather. Um, also the memories for me are still something that I have to, you know, like digest. We basically looked at the whole Alps from a Google Earth perspective, zooming around like this from an from a crazy altitude. Like really, really cool, like really, really cool and impressive race with with a lot of flying, um, experiences that like a on a normal, like we started in the beginning, you know, you would never experience out of a out of outside of a race like that. And I, I think the most, the most impressive overall thing, and this is, this is also maybe motivating for the listeners to what the potential.
This, this little gear is that we carry on our back, it's so impressive. Like you say, I stand there at 1 p.m. in Marquardtstein on the ground. I hike up to this little hill where this little ramp is. It's 300 meters vertical, and from 1 p.m. I start flying. I fly all across, um, Germany, basically into the bias to the Zugspitze, land there, hike 100 meters up or 50 meters up, take the glider up, fly all the way to Ischgl, and land there. Like, how impressive is that? That's like a drive, that's a—that's a five-hour drive just by car. Yeah, it's just—and this is just the nature, the—the energy that is there, we can just use it with that little bit of cloth and getting like totally exposed to nature.
We're not having any engine or anything. For me, this is so impressive. Like, I—I go, this is the Marquardtstein is where skywalk is, so whenever I drive there, I look at this and I'm like, "Wow, how cool is that?" And that was just the one. There was just the one memorable thing. Like that every day was like that, but that was the one of the most memorable. And then the other one being on, um, on, on which pass is it? Like, well, before Fisch, the one pass like 30, 40 kilometers before getting to the Fisch turn point. Stand getting up in the morning, there running up to the pass, flying down, running for 20 or 30 kilometers in the flat up to Fisch, and flying from Fisch out to Nissenland.
There hike up 100 meters, do 1200 meters vertical in 15 minutes by just flying up there, landing on the top, getting the turn point, then fly on to Mont Blanc, flying around Mont Blanc, and then I mean, I mean, what is it?
Those who are listening, who know where you're talking about, they're blown away. But that, for those of you who don't know these places, he's just covered half the Alps, basically. It's, it's ridiculous, it's insane. I mean, when, when I was up there that day at Nissen watching you guys come through, there was, I think, just before you got there, there was, it was Tommy Simone, uh, Tim Alongi, somebody else, they landed within seconds of one another on the top, literally just, and it was blowing 20k. I mean, again, what I'm, what I'm trying to speak to is the level, the level is incredible.
So you're, you're way into the race, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of k into the race at this point, they landed with within sec, you know, Tim Along, he's doing helicopters, and I, you know, of course, just being Tim, but they, they land on the top, you know, and sign the board and take off seconds. Oh, and uh, Toby was in that group. It was just, you're—you're—you couldn't even capture it. It was just, "What the fuck is happening right now?" This is—they're just coming in out of the sky. I mean, they've launched from right above Fruit again, fly up there, launch, hit the—hit the board, take off, and most of them flew around Mont Blanc dot nine, I think.
Really, one thing, one thing to recommend at this point is go on Google Maps or go on Google Earth and type in Nissen or Interlaken. Type in Interlaken and Mont Blanc and just look at, look at the mountains in between, the distances in between, and we did that basically from midday till the evening in the paraglider and
the what I also love too about the race, I mean, I in some ways, when we had less waypoints, I thought it was more interesting because you, you had, you allowed the pilots to have a lot of creativity. You know, in 2015, there was just hugely different lines being flown, which allowed for a lot of huge changes in the numbers and where people were, uh, and but it still happens. You know, Damien's flight from Nissen to the Col du Patin du Petit Saint Bernard was so amazing to watch. You know, it was so cool that basically everybody that took the more direct line that got stuck in the storm that night and in Mont Blanc and couldn't press through, Pal and a bunch of others, and Damien flew the whole thing.
I mean, he flew that line way to the north and the turn point that we had in 21 Dente Osh, basically flew over that and so creative, you know.
It was so amazing to watch, and I think it was so amazing to see that it was so
Cool, and it's neat that that kind of thing, especially in this race where everybody's basically flying together for a lot of it and using one another and thermaling together, and you know, that's just not something I've experienced in any of the races. Was, was that togetherness just, you know, five days into the race and 10 people together? It was amazing, yeah.
No, definitely the most memorable moment of 2023 was that flight. Um, first of all, to Nissen and then from Nissen around Mont Blanc, because I came there after the storm when everybody got caught there. I was there afterwards, right through, and I made it around Mont Blanc and um, over them, basically. I passed them all in the air that day and um, I remember we were Tim and I were together at cloud base, almost 4,000 meters next to Mont Blanc, and and I see this gap with like at Mont Blanc and I think, maybe it's a little bit more of a gap, but I think it's a, maybe I can just make it over there, you know, like cut that, because there's an airspace. I cut the corner and I try it and I go there to the Mont Blanc, which is this huge mountain, so you think it's closer and small and smaller than it actually is.
So, and Tim stays on the cloud base and when I come back, I'm 500 meters below him and he's still up there and I'm like, "Shit, there is no more lift." It's not 8:30 or 8 p.m. and he goes and goes and this perfect glide and I follow him and I'm like 500 meters lower and there is this 20 kilometers ahead and I mean, we had an incredible glide. He, he, I see him, okay, he will make it over, he will make it to around the Mont Blanc and I'm like, "Shit, I, I just fucked it up, sorry," because I, I used these 500 meters to check something out, work and and suddenly in the middle of the valley, beep, beep, beep, it starts beeping and I go up 500 meters at 8:30 in the middle of the valley, in the middle of everything at 3,000, at 3,000 meters, going up another 500 meters or 600 meters and then having this tailwind and flying 60 k per hour over ground, just all the way around where you take on a normal cross country day you take three, four hours of flying and work to go, go around, amazing.
So,
so cool amazing
memories paul
Uh, what's the name of the video next? You're doing another one of these?
I don't say anything about that.
we
Will see, I... I know that Tom said in an interview afterwards, he said, "If you could have weather like that, I'll do it for another 20 years. It was a special year." Obviously, you can't expect that ever again, but it was I
Wouldn't say that. I wouldn't—I wouldn't say that, um, because I like other weather, but some, some days like that I would definitely love to have again. But other days that were flyable, but there were days that were flyable and you could make a lot of distance, but it was really, really on the edge where I, I don't want to have to go flying. I better have rain and say, "Nobody's flying, we walk," um, but not the condition where you can fly, but it's not—you shouldn't, you just, yeah, that the
day, the the damien the next day that after cold like petite saint bernard when damien had his big day, but you guys all had big days, man. I was watching the the talkers on the top of the mountains; I mean, it was 50, 60k an hour. It was just so far from recreational flying. I think that's again what the live tracking doesn't always really capture, and just so sketchy.
Yeah, we... I was, I was on, I was on launch with, I was on launch with Pál Takáts that day, and I was on launch with Pál Takáts, and I was on launch with Pál Takáts, and Chrigel was on the next mountain, and um, everybody was around because that was the day when I caught up the day before, and and I remember being up there, and we checked the weather stations, and like you said, you look at the, at the, at the weather stations where we have to go, and it's 60k per hour wind, and you know, you have to go right there, and then, and then we start flying, and and you, we start flying, and and it works, you, you, you train this, and you see
Here, I'm here and it works. I'm not in danger, everything's fine. But you look on the ground and you see the the shadows of the clouds moving super fast on the ground away from the mountains, and this is—this was very, very special, very, very scary somehow. And you go on with all these guys around, and there is Pál Takáts's the pro, and there is Patrick von Kane the pro, and everybody's pro, and everybody knows what he's doing, right? And we all fly together straight into into the deep deepest mountain, the highest mountains of the Alps, with 50, 60k of north wind on the south side and
It's right, man. That's—that's what I would call be in the be be in the moment and don't think about it. You
Don't really want to think about it, because you know, at some point, it's not going to be that nice. You know, you see the trees all bent over. Yeah, you're waiting for it, you're waiting for it, you're waiting for it. But yeah, crazy Paul, thank you, man. Wow.
That was, that was the longest, longest podcast I've ever done. I hope somebody gets to this point. Maybe, maybe you can write me a personal message or in some command, hey, I listened all the way to one hour and 40. yeah
My editor keeps saying, "You gotta keep it to an hour, you gotta keep it to an hour."
And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm gonna keep it to an hour and I'm gonna"
We're an hour and 54, so we'll try to keep it under two, I guess. But Paul, that was really special. Uh, if you keep doing this, then if we do another memory lane, we have to start at 2025 because it will take us way too long to get through it. But thanks, man. That was, uh, yeah, it's great to catch up with you and and hear your perspectives and excited about what you and Aaron are doing. Congratulations there, and we look forward to seeing you, man. It's
Uh, it's always special thanks, Gavin, and I'm looking forward to an interview chat with you. Let's do it. Thanks for the invitation once again. Thanks, man, if
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