Hi
there, everybody. Welcome to the Cloudbase Mayhem. This is your host, Gavin McClurg. We're doing another walk and fly down memory lane, this time with Gaspard Petiot. He and I both were rookies in 2015. He competed again in 2017 and 2019. So, had three great events. In 2017, he was actually leading for a pretty short stint, but he was out in front of Chrigel, I don't know, day six, end of the race, and then unfortunately broke his wrist. But as with all the others, there's some great stories here, a lot of laughs, and we had a lot of fun with this one. And a tiny bit of housekeeping in this one is that my book, Advanced Paragliding, is now available in an e-format.
So, it's available on Kobo, Google Books, Kindle, and you can get it through xemag.com forward slash shop. You'll find it there. The book is in three different volumes. They're 10 bucks a piece, so cheaper than the real book, and you can take it with you wherever you go. If you've been wanting to read Advanced Paragliding, or if you just want to have it on your phone, then that's the way to do it. Again, xemag.com forward slash shop. Huge thanks to the cross country team for making this all happen. Please enjoy this walk and fly down memory lane with Gaspard Petiot. I think he was France. Oh, so many French. He was France, too. But anyway, incredible pilot, really fun human being, and we'll enjoy it.
Cheers.
Gaspard, awesome to have you on the show, my friend. It's like we were talking about before we started recording. It's been a minute. I haven't seen you in a while. What have you been up to? Before we get into the X-Op stories, what's life been like since the last I saw you in 2019?
Well, it's been... I had more time to do some things I wanted to do, something I wanted to do. I wanted to try. I spent a lot of time, three years sailing, and also taking more time with my girls because my girls are growing now. They're 11 and 12, so they can practice sport with me now. It's a different story, but it's fun. Do they fly? Not alone yet, but we usually fly, the three of us on the tandem, and we do a lot of small adventures like rock climbing, and then we take off from the summit, or we can cross country ski and then fly together.
We do small adventures all together. That's fun. Neat.
And you did a big trip last year to the States, right? Where all did you go?
No, not two years ago. Three years ago, I've been to... Oh, is it that long ago now? I went to Canada.
That's right. I've done a great trip over there, and I flew a lot, but we also hiked a lot with the girls. We saw a bunch of animals, and we traveled. It was really fun. Did you get a van? Did
you get kind of an RV?
Actually, I was really not really good at preparing the stuff. I rented a big car, but when I got to the airport, they gave me like a sport car, like a Mustang racing car. So we traveled with this sport car. But it was fun, though. We went all the way through Canada with this, and we had a bike on it, so on the carbon... It was a carbon design sport car, but we put the bike on it, and then a paraglider bag, and every kind of stuff over it. It was fun.
And the sailing, where did you go? Three years, were you sailing around the world? Were you keeping it more local? What were you doing?
When I ended 2019, I was kind of tired. Paragliding was all my life for 10 years, and I wanted to try some sailing. So I have a lake just near my house, so I started competition sailing on a small A-class catamaran, like a race boat. And then at the same time, I had a friend who... He was sailing like long distance races on the ocean and on the Mediterranean. So I've sailed with him for several races, like a tandem. They're like six or seven days races, long distance.
And also my brother, a really good paragliding pilot that helped me for the three X-Ups, he traveled
from France to crossing the Atlantic and then back, so I had the opportunity to fly a bit with him. So I made a lot of sailing, and it was fun.
This is an interesting thing that so many of us are sailors. What do you think? Damien Lacaz was doing a big one this last year with his family. Tom Ladoix has obviously done a lot of sailing. Paul just bought his boat. He's planning on doing a bunch of sailing with us. his family, and there are others. What do you think the—what do you think the connection there is? There's a lot of, you know, I—I get the kite surfing and the foiling, that's very flowy sport like paragliding is. But, you know, sailing was something I didn't—I got into sailing way before I got into flying. I was a sailor for a long time, but it's an interesting connection, yes.
I think the main connection for, for the four of us, that you've said it before, is that um, the main difference between sailing and paragliding is that you can bring your family with you.
and in a
paraglider. It's not that easy, so it's easy to share an adventure. You can bring a lot of gear, you can go on beautiful places, and you can share the idea of, um, of traveling with the elements, but together as a family. And that's, that's the main difference I think is
This something you've been doing for a long time? Yeah, I've been doing a lot of things for a long time. Take on as a is a big family endeavor. In the future, would you go, you know, offshore, or maybe do a circumnavigation, or you know, live on a boat for a period of time?
Um, I guess not, because um, uh, after three years of sailing, I, I decided to stop a little bit, uh, for two main reasons. The first one is that it's very, uh, complicated to sail. It's very expensive, it's very, it's a lot of gear, a lot of research, and a lot of things that I've been doing for a long time, and I've been doing a lot of repairs, a lot of um, logistic, and I'm not really, I don't really like it, I mean, that much. Um, the second reason is that my wife is not really fond of it, so that's a big one, the main problem. So we usually, um, I think we will continue to sail like, uh, I don't know, several weeks per year, but I'm not, I don't think we, we will travel long distance, I mean, long periods, because she's not fond of it.
So, forget it, she's more, she's more into um, climbing summits and, uh, I mean, light climbing and fast climbing, climbing, okay? And you are as well? Yes, before, uh, prior gliding, I was um, an alpine guide, so, uh, I was into um, rock climbing and um, mountaineering, and I'm kind of coming back to this because um, I really like it, and my, my, my children loves it too, so we're starting to climb ski again, and of course paragliding, but we we do many things and it's and that's fun in
my mind, you're—you're always, you've proven in your three xops campaigns because your knees, you know, you've got worse knees than I do. And you know, I always, I've always tried to be patient with you on the ground, but there are times when we've been together—not many, you're usually out in front of me—but where I just, I can't, I gotta leave them, I can't go that slow. And yet, you just do so well in the race, and that's, you know, you've proven your, your flying capability. You, you've told me privately that a lot of that's your brother; he's very good at kind of routing you through the sky when he's on the ground and, and kind of helping you out with ideas and stuff, which we'll, we'll talk about. But you're not someone that I see, you know, really
Chasing the World Cups and all that stuff. Where, where does the... is it talent? Is it... is it because you're dedicated privately? Uh, where does it come from? And that's a hot seat question, but uh...
I, I am, I think, um, I, it comes from the fact that I didn't have a lot of time to, um, to train and, um, and I had my way of training was, uh, a family training. I was always, uh, we usually spend the summer with my whole family and my wife is, um, uh, she, she bikes because she practiced triathlon, so in the morning she would bike to a path in the ops and then we would, um, have lunch with the kids at this path and I would have to take off there because I had no choice. I mean, I, the only way to fly was to, to take off on any path. It's not the kind of flying, flying where you're free, so it's, it's really similar to the exhausts in a way that
really accurate timing to fly, because we had to meet at four o'clock for, um, for, uh, switching with the kids at the lake. So you have to take off on a special place, and you have to land on a special place at the exact time, so you can go wherever you want. And sometimes I would go on really ugly places, but I knew I had to come back and on a certain timing. And it taught me, um, this idea of, uh, make it whatever happens, and this idea of, uh, of being able to respect a certain timing. And this is really helpful later; it helped me a lot because at the exalt, it's exactly the same. You don't really choose to take off, and you need to be on that exact ridge at this timing, because if not, I mean, the sun won't be at that time, or the the valley wind will be too strong, or and it and it's I think this, uh,
this way of flying that taught me, uh, day after day, uh, this, this timing stuff and this, this, uh, and, and it also taught me that it's, uh, it's not going fast, going fast, it's not about pushing, about pushing fast. It's most of the time, going fast is about thinking and, and taking time when you need to go up to the thermal, to the top of the thermal, because this one is really important and glide really well on that one, because this one is really important and it's not about really important, but maybe the, the next 40k's you can push hard because it's, it's not, uh, really, I mean it won't, it won't bother, it won't make difference. And then while all this just thinking about being at the right time, at the right moment, this is what, what, uh, what really helpful for me, I think, because I'm not, uh, I've, I've paraglided, I've, I've also practiced walker paragliding just for fun, but I'm not really good at paragliding, I'm not really good at paragliding, I'm not really good at it because it's about flying with others, flying in groups and, um, and I'm not really used to it, I really, I'm really used to flying alone on dirty places
dirty
places I like that. And where is home, um?
This is another, um, really important question because I moved, uh, I moved, uh, several in several towns lately, and so I had the opportunity to fly, fly on different, uh, area and different spots. I, I have lived in the really high mountains; I've lived, uh, on the pre-alps, I've lived on the north of the Alps, south of the Alps. So I've, I've met really different kind of style and different kind of conditions, and this helps too. And now I live in Ex-leban, which is a town between Annecy and Grenoble. It's just near Annecy on the south part on the lake, and it's, um, it's, it's a soft kind of flying because it's pre-ops; it's, it's not in the high range had
You done other hike and fly races before the 2015 race, yes?
This is a really important question because, um, I learned many things, uh, in, uh, for the Ex-Ops, uh, practicing races before Ex-Ops, I've done, uh, a really interesting race that called that is called Air Tour. That is a really interesting race that is called Air Tour, which is a race near Grenoble, and it helped me understand, uh, all the tricks, all the, um, mistakes that you can do, and, and this is why I probably didn't make that much mistakes in the, in the Ex-Ops, you
said before we started recording again, before we kind of rewind the clock here, but you said before we started recording that each of your three races—2015, 2017, 2019, which you had great results in all three—were very different. What did you mean by that? You said that you had great results in all three were very different. What did you mean by that? Well,
on the first excelps, um, well
on the first excelps, um, well, on the first excelps, um...
I was here to to discover. I was here to fly a lot but I wasn't... I was not expecting any results. My only goal was to reach Monaco and and do my the best I could. It worked really Well, and we had a um it worked really
well and we had a
Second exap on 217, it was totally different. The idea was to be efficient and to fight with the best, so the idea was to fight in the front and, uh, so I was more into, I was more accurate, more prepared. I had, um, a really, um, uh, fast wing and really, um, powerful win win wing and, um, yes, I was, I had prepared everything to be fighting with the with the first top leaders and since in 217s, I, I ended injured at the end of this race, um, I didn't know if I would come back.
Uh, I was like, I was kind of, um, I knew that after this race, I, I couldn't do much better than that. I was, uh, it was hard to beat, um, the best of the the race. And uh, I came back in '219, uh, to end this experience with, um, with, um, a race that would, that I would, um, control, that I would, I would be proud of. A race, uh, that would bring me to Monaco the last time, and in the right way, and not—I was not, uh, I knew I was not the best pilot, but I wanted
last time before saying goodbye to this marvelous adventure, so
You knew going into 29, and I remember you telling me this before the race that that was going to be your last, yes.
I, for me, um, I was, I, I've never thought about doing exhausts, um, more than two or three times, um, because I, I didn't want to, to be, I wanted to be a full-time, a full-time investment. I wanted to be fully into it, and I know that if I, I know myself, if I, if it's the project is a really long time project, probably, um, my level would, would not be, uh, strong all the time. I'm not, uh, committed; like, I have plenty of other things that I want to do. My girls need me also for other things, so I knew I had few opportunities, and I wanted to, uh, I wanted them to be really, uh, really strong, but still in 2021, it was hard for me not to apply.
I
Imagine, you know, I didn't apply this year and I'm starting to get the, uh, you know, I, I'm curious, your girls, if I have the math right, we're kind of four, five, six, somewhere right in there for the first one. You know, my little girl's five now, and that's—that was a big part of my decision to not compete this year and other things, you know, 50. The race is getting, I mean, back in 2015, we could make it mistakes and still, you know, be in there with the with the top guys, and now I don't find that that's the case. You've just, you got to be on, and it's, it's a different race, it's just faster, which is great, it's—that's super exciting. But, so, but a big part of it was just the time required. It doesn't sound like, you know, it sounds like you're—you had a more relaxed approach because you had to, it was just practical to spend time with your family.
So, two questions, it seems like that is maybe a little bit more of a challenge for you, but I think it's a little bit more of a challenge. Approach that really helps, I'm sure it would help a lot of people, including myself, to be maybe not take it so seriously and be more relaxed as I was in 2015, because I had no, I, my only objective there was to not get eliminated. I had no idea, you know, and get to Monaco. Of course, we all have that objective, but I didn't have any expectations, and I think that's a really good thing. But, so that's one question, and the other question is, how has have things changed for you with your daughters getting older from the 2015 race to the 2019 race, as they, as they become became adolescents? How did that affect your approach, um?
Well, for sure, during the races, uh, having the girls was always, um, it was always inside your head, uh, when you take some risks, and especially when you fly against the wind, so you have to think about it. And then sometimes you, you are, uh, hungry, you are about yourself because you, you, you've taken risky decisions, so, so it's, it's kind of, uh, there's, there's like a voice telling you that this is wrong and you should be careful. And then, so this is a kind of a small problem that you have to take, take into account, um, when they were small, it was easy to, to, to train because I could share half day with my wife.
She would train in the morning, I would train in the afternoon, and we would switch like this. And I could spend half day with my girls and it would, I mean, it was okay. And the more they grow, the more they wants to do things. I mean, they, they can run, they can hike, they can ski, so they want, they want to share the stuff, they want to do things, and you want to share things with them, uh, I mean, I, I, I enjoy, I really enjoy to spend time skiing and to, to, to train climbing. So for me, it was clear that the more, the older they, they would go, the, the more time I had to, to, to give them. And, and that's why I knew that my, my window for the except was quite, quite short.
What are your goals now for
paragliding uh
My goal in paragliding? I don't have any goal in paragliding. No, uh, I, I, I have to say that for three years I almost, I didn't fly. Most didn't fly. I didn't fly. Uh, I, I, I totally, I made a big break. Uh, and now I've sold my boat and I'm, I'm starting to fly again. Uh, but, but I'm not expecting, uh, for now I'm not. I don't have any expectations because I don't have, I don't have that much time. And, um, maybe later when the girls will go away, I'll probably start again. Probably, I have, I'll have some more, uh, some more objectives, some more targets, some more objectives.
But now it's, it's, it's not, um, I have some small, like, small ideas, but it's, I'm, I mean, it's not like, uh, huge objectives, but it's not my time. It's, it's their time now. I'm, I'm, I'm here for, for them, for the girls. Good for you. Okay?
Well, let's go back and relive a little bit for the 2015 race. Each race is dictated by the weather, of course. The 2015 race, the route was the Geisberg, as it always is, down to the Doxtein, which we had an amazing first day. It was very hot, but really good flying, and uh, you and I were out in front, as I recall. And and we made it down to the Kimsey, and then from there we went to Lermous, and then down to the Brenta, and then up to the Matterhorn, and then around Montreal, and then down to the Doxtein, and then down to the Doxtein, and then up to the Mont Blanc and to Annecy. We had some fun flying into and out of Annecy, and then down all the way down to Pay, down to Monaco.
And 2015 was was dominated by wind, and we had a lot of heat and big storms early in the season from, you know, heat lightning and heavy, heavy rain at night from just being, being so hot, uh, including in the prologue, which I believe 2015 was the first year
Incredible amount of wind. We there was a lot of injuries, a lot of accidents, a lot of withdrawals. It was a very, you know, I think for you and I being rookies, it was a good, you know, "Wow, this is what this is all about," because you, you, you just got used to it and you just kept doing it. But looking back, there was some—there's a lot of wind, a lot of lee flying, and a lot of pushing into wind. We were, we mostly had westerlies and we were, we were heading west, so some pretty dicey stuff. But you and Antoine and Aaron had an amazing battle for, for fourth, uh, down at the end. You were, you were just hanging on to Paul and, and Chrigel, as I remember, and, and Sebastian Huber—that was his rookie year, and he really had one.
I think he got second, didn't he? So yeah, there's a little recap of how the race was. But you and I had some fun together early, and then you got out front and never saw you again. But I see you smiling. Uh, what was a highlight from that race? And what was maybe something you would have liked to change, um?
The um, the highlights, uh, for me, it's, it's, it's, uh, like you say, it's, it's weird because on my memories, I only keep the good memories. Isn't that funny? Isn't that funny? That's why we keep doing it, that, uh, yes, as you said, the wind was, uh, was really strong, and I remember some landings, uh, really scary landings. Um, I remember, uh, one of my worst memory of paragliding was on, on Simplon Path. I was, um, I, I was thinking as, uh, as a pilot that, um, if the wind was strong, I would, I could, I could, um, be safe landing on the, on the top of a mountain.
I would be safer, so I went on Simplon Path, and, uh, I made this huge mistake because all the, the west wind of Switzerland would, would go in that path, and, and I was just at the right, really the right, or the wrong place. I was on the hill, and the wind was just, was just pushing me up the mountains, like, like a soaring, but, but, uh, but, uh, not soaring, but going backward, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna jump over the mountain and scratch myself in Italy over there, and I stayed like, like, uh, fighting against this wind, uh, for about a year and a half, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna jump over the mountain and scratch myself in Italy for about 30 minutes, and, uh, wondering where I would end this, uh, this, this, this, this very moment, and, uh, and yes, for me, this, this, this is a really strong, um, souvenir, and, uh, this, I, I didn't know what to do.
I was pushing the bar and couldn't move, and I was looking, uh, turning my head, I was like, oh, no, please, please, please, I need help, and I don't know, I had, and this, for this fortunate thermal that came and helped me to get out this place and saved me, just, um, this was, um, yeah, I forgot, I had forgotten this, this, this, uh, moment, but now that you speak about Ween, I can remember the, the hell I was in, and, uh, and it was, and I survived this, I survived this, but at this very moment, I was really, really scared, and I, and I remember that when I landed, I was in the, I was like, oh, I love to walk, I love to walk, and I walked all the night, all the, all the afternoon, I walked, and I walked, and I could probably fight fly again this day, but I, I was mentally destroyed
So yes, it was a hard race and, uh, and it's the wind was really strong. I
Believe that was probably the day. If you were pushing into the Simplon, that was the day I was back with with Tom and Ferdy back getting in, trying to get into Bellinzona, and that was when Tom went in the tree and had be helicoptered out. And uh, the German pilot Michael dropped out of the race, and Toma, I believe that same day was the day that he had the terrible accident. They never published, they never talked about that, but he, he basically had his face ripped off, uh, landing backwards in really strong wind. And that might have even been the same day Michael Witschi went in the lake. Now, no, Michael Witschi went to lake, yeah.
Because we landed, that was the day before when Michael Witschi landed in the lake. I landed like 500 meters next to him, so we would... I was almost dying. I was, I was um, flying backward over um a wedding, a wedding feast, and the people saw me like going... like the wind threw me over the wedding, and I landed between two um, two uh, buildings in the middle of of a town. And I, I survived this again. I didn't know how, but which Vichy 500 meters in the front land in the lake? So yes, I had several memories, and uh, and um, those, those two were really, really bad.
But I had also extraordinary memories. For example, one memory, I was fighting with uh, Aaron, and we were um, trying to find a clue to um, to to cross um, uh, a special point near um, near Lake Lake Major, Major Lake. I don't remember the name of the place, but we couldn't um, we couldn't reach the place because of the breeze, and we didn't know how to do it. And and we crossed, and we saw a paraglider like um, a beginner, a small red wing, and the wing was shouting at me like, and I was... It's like, oh, this guy is really happy to see us coming from the Ixops. And I tried to cross this valley by using...
right side, and then I was totally destroyed on this, this, this um, my, my, my idea was stupid. And then when I came back, uh, I could see this paraglider and he was shouting at me, and I could hear the voice later, and he was like, "Follow me, follow me." And then he showed us, me and Aaron, he showed us, uh, the way. I mean, he was like, uh, I don't know, I, he had like a beginner wing, but he showed us the way, the way to cross. And Aaron had done exactly the same mistake, and at the end, this, this little guy showed, showed us, uh, the way to cross. So, so it's like we had magic memories together with Aaron, because this, uh, without this guy, I think we could, we would have land maybe 10k before or 20k before that.
was down in the Maritimes. That was after Annecy, when you're pushing south, I assume. No, no.
It was, uh, it was before, it was, uh, after, uh, Berlin Zona. I don't, I don't remember the place, um, before coming back north to, um, to, to, to reach the Swiss, Swiss valley. Um, we were fighting against the breeze coming from Lake Major, Major Lake, and, um, and we didn't know the place at all. And, ah, okay, okay, gotcha.
That's right, we had Saint Moritz as a turn point, didn't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
That makes sense, okay? And he and and and this guy, I mean, he he totally changed a race, and it was fun because he was he was just a normal guy, and I think he enjoyed it, I mean, to to share this with us. It was it was it was cool, cool, uh, cool memory. But I mean, we have plenty of the of those memory. I remember, uh, uh, fighting with Aaron when we flew over um the places I knew really well, uh, in in the French Alps, and uh, we would we would share the flight with Aaron and Antoine for 10 hours, uh, you know, whole the whole day together. We flew over and and it was like magic. We were we were racing, but it was like a family, like a friend, uh, a friend flight, and it was it was magic.
I
Remember sitting on the pass into the west end of the Chamonix valley, and you guys were all heading up to the—I believe you all three were together that morning. Maybe one was slightly up at the—going up to the Brenta, you know, the top of the gondola or the tram there, and and getting ready to fly. We had a great day to Annecy, and it was, you know, the forecast was for crazy strong north fern, and I was sitting on the pass. Ferdy didn't even try to fly; he just walked off the pass and walked down into Chamonix. And but you guys were going up, and I kept telling Bruce, you know, they see something that we don't. They're—they're going up to fly, it must be okay. And and he kept going. I don't know, north fern and Shaman and Passy's fine, but in Chamonix it's really dangerous.
And and I kept saying, "No, but the—the sky looks okay. I think the forecast is wrong." And it was—it was an amazing day. And but I think if you guys hadn't been there, I also would have walked. But I kept saying, "They know something that we don't, Bruce. Let's just—let's just sit here and watch." And as soon as you guys took off, I took off. And and it worked. It
was great yes
Sometimes the forecast is
Wrong sometimes, the forecast is wrong.
or scary yeah
Sometimes, sometimes you, you, you don't know that it's, that it's dangerous, and you take off and you, and it works. Sometimes it's because you're stupid, or, and you don't have the information that you try it and it works, but, and sometimes you'd better have the information. Once, it was funny in this race, I was, um, I was, uh, before, um, Madonna, before the Brenta, before Madonna di Campiglio, we had a really strong storm. I was before Aaron Durogati and I, we hiked to, um, to a summit, um, and we wanted to glide and to fly to Madonna di Campiglio, and we were here and we had this terrible storm with really strong winds. I was like, we were at the top and it was windy and we were waiting and waiting, and then Aaron arrived and, uh, with his supporter and, uh, and it was really, really, uh, windy and, um,
reporter that he's competing, uh, this this year, he's Andre, Andre, yeah. And he's and he told Aaron, "Okay, let's take off." I mean, uh, I propose you to go down 50 meters down and we take off. And we're like, "Those guys are completely crazy." And they they start to go down and we were like, "Those guys are gonna kill themselves." And five minutes later, they took off like in in uh, totally, I mean, it was hell, it was crazy. And and it worked, I mean, and they they took off and then they they directly glided on the lee side of it. I was like, "Those guys are crazy." And and it worked. And I had a lot of French guys that were here to to watch the race and they're like, "Sometimes we spend..." They were usual paragliders and they say, "Uh, sometimes we spend two two hours analyzing the conditions before takeoff." And those guys, they don't care, they just take off.
And they're like, "Oh, yeah, they're not gonna let us go, yeah, Aaron."
I mean, Andre is obviously with all his acro background, is is an amazing pilot, and it's going to be interesting to watch him in the race. And I got to see Aaron this year after his exploits in Pakistan, this this summer, which were extraordinary. He came and did you know we have this three-day hike and fly race here called the the Global Rescue X Red Rocks, and man, he's operating at a high level. I mean, he's always been fast up mountains, you know, he's really a gazelle up going uphill, you know, has knee problems like you and I do, and so the flats are not his favorite, but wow, he's moving fast right now. It's just extraordinary. I think he's really preparing well. I think he's going to be one, watch you know, the X-Ops has always been, he's done very well, but for him, it's not very well.
He he'd like to, you know, obviously he wants to win, he wants to be up there in the top, in the podium, and he's had trouble striking that balance, but he's, I think this, he could be very dangerous, yeah.
He has improved a lot. Uh, yeah, I saw him in 215, 217, 219, and he has improved a lot of his different skills, so he's going to be—he's every, every race, he's better, yeah.
2017 was marked by a lot of bad weather. I think it was the first time in the race that no one flew one day. I know Chrigel said that in 20, the first day we all walked up to the Geisberg and it was so wet, I ruined my phone, and we all walked off the Geisberg and walked all day, which, uh, again, for you and I, is pretty hard to do. That was a hard day. And then it was earmarked by this—the second day, you had an unreal flight and showed what was possible flying in really strong fern. I, you and I have talked about this, I watched, you know, I walked all night, which was a mistake, and then I was in that canyon to the south that you all, you know, Chrigel took a different route there, but you launched on the north side, hopped over the spine of the Alps, and I watched gliders coming down that canyon and I got on the phone with the safety officer saying, "You better get a helicopter in here, someone's going to crash." It was wicked dicey, uh, you know, Ben Wall went in the trees and, yeah, any, but, but some of you had a had an amazing day and, yeah, and then it was a pretty exciting race and I think, I think it was a pretty exciting race.
At one point, I don't want to spoil 2017, but at one point you were leading the race well into the race down at the guard at turn point, you were out in front and then, sadly, you had a hard landing. So, but the the race course was was longer than it had ever been, I believe, and hopped back and forth across the spine of the Alps more than it ever had. It was a pretty exciting course and then a lot of wind at the end, but anyway, that that race was dictated by storms and thunderstorms and rain and gust fronts and quite a bit of wet weather, well.
For me, this race, um, it was, um, it was, it was the perfect race for me. Um, the, the first day was, was horrible because I couldn't, um, run on the flat, so I ended, uh, I was the last one on the at the end of the first day. I was pointing at the last position and, uh, it was kind of scary, but I knew, um, that every, that a lot of making a mistake because, um, I knew that we'll have, we would have a north wind, and when you have some north wind, uh, it's always better to be before the spine than after the spine. I mean, because, uh, the fun is always stronger when he comes down after the, after the, the, the, up, so I knew that it, it, if, if I could fly, uh, the north wind would, would help me to, to come back
And I, you could, that's I knew that you, you could not, I mean, you could probably not take off on the south side because of the this down, this downwind coming down. So, uh, actually taking this day, taking, uh, taking off on the north side was really calm and sweet. We had really tiny conditions on, on the north side, and, uh, and, uh, the idea was to take as much altitude as I could so that, uh, when you, when you jump over the, the spine, you, you survive the, you know, the wave going down. And, um, and, uh, I knew that, uh, 50ks from the spine, maybe I could find some normal conditions, so I had to survive those 50ks, uh, of downwind.
And, uh, and it worked, it worked. I mean, luckily, uh, it worked perfectly, and I had this incredible flight, uh, almost to the, to the turn point of Mongart, so it was, um, incredible. It was an incredible way to, to begin the race, uh, to, to, to start from last, from last to second. And, uh, yeah, and after that, I, I was into the race and I had Luckily, I had this chance that every day was flyable, so I could, um, I could, you know, um, play the game. Because if it's right with my knee, I couldn't with, um, rainy day, I cannot really play the race; I couldn't play anything. So with good flyable conditions, I could play the game and the day, and like this, I could reach, um, I could reach, uh, Chrigel bit by bit.
But I, I reached Chrigel, uh, because he, he was not on the really good timing, and I was on a good timing and coming into
garda yeah
And I reached Regal, but I reached Regal, uh, getting tired, so that explained maybe part of, probably the fact that I got injured. I, I, I've never been, uh, as good as Chrigel, and I will probably never be as good as he is, but it was fun to, to, I, what I realized in 217 is that I understood the way he played, the way he, he, he, he, he thinks, the way he, he reads the, the forecast, and I understood, could feel things, and that's, this is, was this is, this was really interesting. And the main difference between 215 and 217 is that, uh, I could understand the timing is that at the beginning of the day I could tell my crew, uh, at 215, I will be there at, at three o'clock, I'll be there at five o'clock, I will be there.
I could plan the day, and I could, um, and this changed, changed really a lot of things because when you can plan the time when you will be, uh, landing and where you will be landing, then you can, it's easy to, it's better, it's, it's easy to get to go faster because how did you
Do that. How did you—how were you able to map it so well in your mind, how it would happen? Well,
Totally, 215 helped me a lot and, um, and and then after, after that, when you fly a lot, which was the case in 215, I, I really flew a lot. I, I also competed to the, to the International World Cup, um, in Brazil and in, uh, so I, I really flew a lot on different style, so I was really confident of what I could do and I, so I could, I was able to say, "I can fly 30k per hour, 25k per hour today, and I think I can reach here, I will land over there, and then I can hike this bus and I will take off over there." So I could plan my day, and this was the main difference, and this is why it worked pretty well.
But I have to say that the end of this, uh, race was really tricky and the bad weather was, was horrible. The, the terrain, I mean, the Italian side of the end of this race was really difficult, and I think I can say that the end of this race was really difficult, was horrible. And I, I have to say that if I didn't break my wrist, I, I could never win the race because it was, the end of the race was too tricky, not, not to, not as flyable as, as I needed to, to be to win, to win or to keep going with Chrigel. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Yeah, totally. I mean, just to remind everybody listening, what—what was unusual about that race is what—what typically happens is that the leaders are often, which is Chrigel, will get out in front of the bad weather and and and will have better weather than those in the back. And in this case, I was in the back, uh, early, and because of it, that terrible mistake early on, and and then the weather for the leaders actually got worse. Not, you know, going through Garda and all that, it was still pretty good, but once they got up to kind of the Matterhorn, the the wind was, you know, on the—on the prognosis was purple, yeah. I, which I—you don't very see that often. And it was—it was what you had to walk, and they were doing a lot of walking.
And, you know, that was where Chrigel famously got blown out of the mountains going 100k an hour and had to land out in the Italian flats and go around the airspace. And yeah, he talks about only making 18k or something that day and still won, but it was—it was pretty brutal at the end. And where for us coming into Garda then and and making the turn and heading was actually really flyable. It was really nice and in good conditions, and so you could make, you could close the gap. You weren't going to catch anybody, but you could close the gap, which was nice. It didn't happen that often, but
but it, people must understand that we got the during those those races, we we keep flying, landing, flying, landing, and flying, landing. And when Chrigel does that, he flies, he makes a perfect landing, then he takes off perfectly, and then he flies again. When I do that, I fly, then I literally crash, then I hike up, and then I take off as I can, and then I crash again. And then I, so at the end of the day, it's it's hard for me not to get totally destroyed. You see, it's not it's not a perfect, uh, Chrigel, and I mean Chrigel, but you can also say Patrick von Kennel, for example. Those guys, they control whatever they do.
It's it's beautiful to watch. If you could see us at the at the back, it's not the same. We we're not that precise, yeah.
My my highlight reel in the 2021 race was just a series of crashes. I basically just crashed my way all the way across the Alps, and I thought at the end, I thought, looking back at it, I thought, you know, it's a good thing I'm a wombat, because that's unacceptable. This was not pretty at all. I just kept crashing, you know? I started doing the whole from watching those guys' videos of their whole upwind down down, you know, upwind downwind, sorry, downwind uphill landings. You know, I started seeing Maxine doing that in Annecy. Oh, I really need to start practicing that. And thank God, the first 50 I did was in the snow, because they weren't landings, they were just crashes. And then I started to try to deploy those in the X-Alps, but I
I mean, I can do that when the conditions are okay, but most of the time I land on the lee side and the wind is is going down when super strong, and I'm I want to land on the rocky and I know I have to land it here because if not the worst, the the the race is over, so I have to land it right there and it's rocky and the wind is totally strong and it it's not landable, but I have to do it, so I literally crash. I I'm not precise enough and and with the when you're tired it, I mean, you're you're not as accurate as when you are sure fully recovered. How
Did you break your wrist? What happened? Well,
That's strange, because it wasn't on a crash; it was on a really easy landing for that. This is always what happens when you have an accident, it's always on the easy stuff. But I was landing on a small, um, in a small hill because I wanted to hike up just a little bit. And on this hill, the you had a small road and a house with a little brick wall, like a one meter wall between the garden of the house and the road. And I was landing really smoothly, and I was landing really smoothly, and just at the moment I would probably put my feet on the ground, a huge thermal blew this hill and it, and it took my my left side of the wind, the wing, and it just like bubble, like, uh, I don't know how to call that in English, but like a strong, uh, little bomb, and it's just, um, made me fly a little bit and I swung, uh, onto the wall, but it really smoothly, but the wall is kind of strong and, uh, and I broke my wrist.
Yeah, well, I imagine
I imagine that was the low point of the race, or not? Was there... was there something else that was lower? Well,
It was a low point, though. Uh, I had a low point the day before. I was, I, I, it's, it was really strange. I got stuck onto a hill because of the breeze, um, when I was leading the race for about five minutes, maybe. Uh, I took a different option. A Chrigel took right and I took left, and my option didn't work. And, um, uh, I didn't, I didn't, I should have land and start, I mean, and to go up, uh, up, and because we had a great inversion, so you had to fly really high, and I should have learned to keep high, but I wanted to fight a little more, and I got stuck, uh, on the, on the hill inside the breeze.
So I, it was impossible to go up again because of the wind blowing everything, and I stayed there for probably two or three hours trying to, to pinch this breeze, and it didn't work for the whole day. So this was, uh, probably more annoying than the, than the, than the next day. And the next day, well, it was for sure not really fun, but, uh, uh, the first thing I, I told myself is, "Okay, man, it's just a wrist. It's, it's not a back, or it's not, uh, it's, it's not a big deal. So just, uh, okay, keep calm, and it's okay."
Yeah, well, what a—what a race did we? I—I can't remember. Did we—was your highlight the day getting down to Titlis, that—that second day, or was there something else that we missed, a real high point from the race now?
the high point, the high points of the race, and the—it's the high point of all the excels for me. It's a marvelous flight from Lermos to, uh, no, from, um, Kimsey to Lermos, and, um, it was a fight against, uh, west window, so against the wind, and it was really technical. So it was probably my best flight ever, um, technically, and I could reach Lermos at the end of the day with all of my friends, all my family, and it was like the sunset going. I mean, it was a perfect day, uh, and I remember it, uh, I will probably remember it all my, all my, all my life because it's, it was, it had everything. Uh, the fly against the wind, uh, the, the good vibes with the team, um, the turn point at the end, the, um, the fact that we were going into the timing to reach Gregor, so we had everything.
It was incredible, this
Was okay. Now I'm starting to remember this. You were in the air. Was that the year with you were in the air with Willie, uh, or is that 2019? I'm getting my... No, that was 2019. Okay, we'll come to that, because you made a move in 2019. That was unbelievable. That was you. You approached Lermos from the south, and, uh, yeah, we'll get to that. Okay, so, okay, so, yeah, you're in second place, break your wrist, and, uh, you were, you were fighting at the front, man. We were all, that was, I think, the whole world let out a sigh of, oh no, that day in 2017, you were having an amazing race, and then, okay, so let's jump to 2019. 2019 was again weak, was weak.
Yes, I know you, you, you're, you're one of your low lights is going to be your wing choice. I remember that, but it was, uh, yeah, it was 2019, was incredibly stable and hot at the end. Unbelievable! We, of course, had the—oh my gosh, I'm the angle, angle bird, torn point, the uh, the only one that Chrigel top, you know, he was the only one that top landed, and you hugged the sign. That was a highlight. Yes, yes. And uh, I'm sorry, before I said Titlis, before I met tree glove, but yeah, so the Titlis turn point was, was incredible. And the middle of the beginning of the race was, was great weather. The middle of the race had lots of shade and not many thermals, but we had no fern in that race.
We had no wind, and it was by far the easiest conditions I had raced in, and in all my X-Alps campaigns, especially compared to 2021. but it was, you could just go up anywhere and launch, and and it wasn't very, I would say 2019 was not very dangerous, uh, and it had some, but it had this obscenely hot, and god, that was miserable, where you'd hike, you know, 2,000 meters and it would be the exact same temperature at the top as it was in the valley bottom, and there just wasn't a burp of a thermal unless you got really tall. That was when people landed on top of Mont Blanc, when all that was going down, and recall a couple of your flights being just
absurdly awesome, and down through the Maritimes, you had a really good one with, uh, Manuel. You guys, you guys had a really good day together, and then we just had him on the show and he talked about that being very special. You had an amazing one, kind of a... you were, I don't believe you were much up in the front, you were kind of in the back early. I was in the back. Incredible flight. You went from the back to third going into Laramouse, do I have that right? Yeah.
Well, on this um edition, I... it was really hard for me because, um, um, I'm probably not the best, um, pilot when it's really weak, and I had a wing that was really small, so it was hard to keep up at the beginning. And I probably made mistakes, too, so at the beginning I was really at the back, and, uh, fortunately we had two good days, of one really good day for me, from, um, from Kitzbühel near Laramouse, near, uh, near, um, Kimse, uh, to... we had to go back, um, to the Dolomites, and then back up to Laramouse. And, and, um, I was in the good timing, uh, to try another, another option, uh, on the west side of, of the, of the...
I mean, you had two main, you had two options, uh, either on the, on the east side, and so it was an, an option really good for the morning, in the morning. And you had this option crossing the, the Ozal, um, mountains, uh, on the west, and since I was really at the back, I, I, I, I like to try other stuff, and it was the perfect timing to try it, so... And I remember, I was this, I was with your friend, with the American Willy Willy, and I told him, "Come on, let's go," and he didn't, he didn't want to come, and he got stuck.
there for two days. That was the end of his race. In some ways, he got shin splints, and I said, "You were with Gaspard and you left him, you idiot." Uh, but you know, just to paint the listener a picture, so when we, you know, I was in pretty good position that day flying from we'd gotten Kimsey the night before. I was with Paul and and a bunch of the guys. We were, we flew, we had a beautiful day to get over the spine of the Alps and top landed chrome plaques. I was on the ground for less than five minutes, relaunched, was heading north, uh, up to Moringan. So I took the traditional route. So that's east of, uh, Insbrook, or sorry, uh, interlocking, no, say Insbrook. And as I was heading north and you all were still heading south, the sky was big.
I mean, really big, huge. I mean, lightning, thunder, rain, uh, you know, to our, to our east, I mean, it looked really pretty scary. And that's when you were heading the wrong way. I mean, you were going, we were going kind of in a sense away from it, although it started getting big everywhere. They were getting it up in Laramos and that, you know, so that to, to do what you did took some cojones. I'm just in terms of weather, I mean, just in terms, but you were, I guess, heading west, which was okay, no
Because um, I landed, uh, in I was just on the just before the storms, I, I landed in um complex and in the Dolomites, it was all dark and then I could um take off again and and on the west side, um, I could see that um the cloud base was really high and it wasn't that, um, it wasn't, uh, really dangerous. I mean, it was not going into storm, so that's why I chose the cloud base and I was just in the to go west and I knew that to cross west I needed a 4,000 cloud base, so I needed to cross over the over the glaciers, so I needed a lot of, uh, so it was like a gamble, but um, it was worth the try and and I had, uh, worked a lot of maps and of all the
The Innsbruck area, which is really tricky with the, with the airspaces, and I knew that I had, I had a way to, to, to do it on the west, and it was, yes, and I, and I, and I, I remember I was on the thermal with Will, I said, "Okay, that's it. Let's try it. Let's go." That's, that's, you know, when one of my favorite pilots in the X-app, my, one of my, um, my, uh, my mentor, I would say, on my, uh, the best pilot I've ever seen on X-Alps is, is not probably Criggle; the one I like the most is, um, is Martin, uh, which is, uh, Swiss pilot, and what I like with Martin is that he tries, uh, he always tries stuff, and even if, even sometimes he, he wastes a lot of time, but he tries, and that's, that's what I told myself, let's, let's do it, let's, let's do something else, and it was really fun to try this, and, uh, and I had a great time, yeah.
So that's you took basically the the beginning of the anthel, well, the second leg of the anthels FAI, where you fly down to stersing and up over the glaciers and into the into the solden valley, and then it's just a straight north run. And once you got there, it was fast, and man, you crunched some kilometers. And I looked at it afterwards, and it was quite a short way to go. You also, you know, you didn't have to go all the way around the airspace and make the hard move over the end valley, and and it really made sense. And that that is a route that you know we fly it works, and it was, boy, that was beautiful. I mean, like you said, to make it over the glaciers, you had to have the base, but otherwise you would have gotten kind of stuck up there. But it was, that was a neat move.
But then the next day was tricky because, um, we had to do this turnpint on the north side of, um, of, uh, what's the Davos now on, on Lermos? The turnpoint is, uh, the summit, the big summit of, I don't remember the name, and, uh, you had to, I had all the Zooks bits, the Zooks bits, I had to go north of it, so I had, um, a technical ferrata to climb and then, uh, glide just to put the waypoint on the north side of the Zooks pizza, and this was a tricky, was a tricky part, and that's right, it wasn't just
Getting to Lermos, you had to get around, and you were so, you were coming in from, in a sense, the wrong side then, but exactly, yeah, but you went, you went, you got into third, so you're good at those in, in 2017, you went from last to second, and then the, yeah, these big flights, which is really neat, because one of my issues, I guess, with the X-Alps since 2015, is that the distances between the waypoints, they've been, they've added a lot more waypoints, and the distances have gotten shorter, and so it takes away a lot of that ability to do the Martin Mueller, Nick Neynens, like that too, he just goes into crazy places, or what the hell is Nick doing? And sometimes it works, and sometimes it's great, but you've proven that you can still, you know, you can still make those kind of moves, which is really nice to see.
Well, that's—that's fun for me. I totally agree. I think the more waypoints you put, the less adventure you can try, uh, but, but, um, that's the way it is, and you have to—you have to do, uh, you have to do the best with the rules. Um, but this 2019 race was, uh, was great because it was a lot into the mountains. I remember Titlitz, climbing up to Titlitz, uh, was, um, just beautiful. I mean, just, uh, nice for the eyes, and, uh, we had this beautiful summer and summit over there. We, we, we flew, we slept, uh, in the restaurant at the top of Titlitz, so I have wonderful memories of, uh, high mountaineering.
We, we also had one of my best moments, uh, sharing, um, um, a glacier traverse with Tom Le Dollodo, uh, and, um, and, uh, I forget, got his name, the German guy, um, Manuel, uh, no, the other one. Oh, the other one. No, no, that wasn't—I forgot, I didn't, um, well, but we had a great time together sharing the—I mean, the all the the crampons, um, traverse over the glacier and finding a takeoff, and all this sharing, I aspect of the race is great. I mean, we, we've shared many days with, um, with Tom. I've shared, um, beautiful flight with, uh, Manuel, um, so 219 was more about sharing and, uh, having this, uh, you know, taking, um, all the beauty of this race, uh, the beauty of the, of the, the landscapes, but the beauty of the friendship, the beauty of the flights.
So I ended this race, uh, with big smile on my face, just, um, having a great time of paragliding, and, uh, it was more than competing. It was, it was, um, and, and even at the end when we landed on the raft was, uh, we landed, uh, all the, all the, um, I mean, all the finishers together, and, uh, we had this, this moment on the raft, uh, sharing and smiling, and, and, you know, it was really, really a nice French, uh, friendship, um, experience, and that I will remember your
Brother has been part of your team all three events, and he like said a really good pilot. I'm curious, when you're—when you're flying, are you talking to him? Has he given you—are you on the phone together? Has he given you—how much is in your own instinct and your own doing your own thing versus getting help from—from your brother?
So um, in 215, he could fly with me, so we flew part of it together, um, but he's always on the van and he's really important because, um, at the beginning of this, uh, recording, you said, uh, we, I told you that I had made races before Xops and we've made the races together, and the only rules we applied together was to always land together and to always do the whole race together, which is quite hard, but we were really good at it, uh, flying as a team and, um, so I know he knows me perfectly and I know him perfectly and it's, and we can understand each other really well, so even if he's in the van and have an idea, I can feel the way he answers me, I can feel if my idea is good or if it's, if it's stupid, uh, and sometimes he calms me down because I'm a bit, uh, I'm a bit, um, dynamic, too much dynamic, I would say, I'm a bit Speedy Gonzalez and sometimes he calms me down, uh, but yes, when I have an idea and he tells me, "Okay, I think it's, it's a good idea," then it's, it's for me, it's easier to, to go fully into my idea, it's easier for me to follow my ideas when I know that, that he can, he confirms that that's a good idea.
So maybe sometimes, I probably, you can, yeah, you probably experienced that, you have an idea during the Xops and you, you're not sure of yourself, so probably if a pilot crossed your routes, you will probably follow him a bit because you're not quite sure, and then, uh, with with this, uh, asset on my team, I could be sure of what I, uh, my ideas and trust my ideas, uh, to the very end and not, um, not be, not follow other pilots the
One theme for a lot of teams seems to be to have a mountain guide on the team. You are a mountain guide; how important is that aspect?
Well, I am a mountain guide, and one of my supporters is also one. Uh, it's important in a sense that I'm—I don't care about landing anywhere. I don't care about landing on the glacier; I'm not scared about it. So, and I know a bunch of huts, so I know that I can go up to that hut. It's also easier, uh, on the tactics because I know that I can land at the very end of the valley, and then my crew will come with crampons, and we can cross with the crampons. And then I can land at the very end of the valley, and I can, so that helps a lot. And when we share this, this, uh, crossing with the crampons with Satoma and, and, um, I forgot his name, um, I, I called, um, I called, uh, the race director to tell them that I, um, I am an alpine guide and I will take care, uh, we will, we will take care of the whole group.
So I could also help the other guys to cross this. This was nice for us. Marcus, Marcus Anders, Marcus Anders, exactly. Yeah, sorry, Marcus.
who, who kind of got injured at the end of the 2019 race? I don't believe we've done a... we're gonna wrap things up here. I know you got a hard out, but you... we... we've talked a lot about the good sides of 2019. You had an amazing race. Was there a bad... was there a down? Yes, I was
Um, I, I like, I had kind of a nervous breakdown at the middle of the race, uh, when, um, well, I made some bad choice in the middle of the race before Chamonix and, uh, and people were coming back and, um, uh, I was, I was in too much, maybe, into competing at that time and I was, um, I was, maybe, I was not really nice, I'm not nice enough with my team, I was, uh, a bit of an asshole, maybe, I could say, at that time. So that's, that's what's really not the, the best moment of this race, fortunately. Um, just after that, we, uh, we, we calmed down and we focused about, uh, about what was important in the race and, and things went much better, but I had this, this major breakdown, maybe a lot of, I was really tired and, um, I had a lot, it was the first time that many of my plans were not working as, uh, as I expected because I was really tired and I was, because I'm really used to fly in the ops, so I'm really used to fly in big conditions and strong conditions and this, this year nothing would work.
I mean, the, it was weak everywhere, even at high altitude, so none of my plan would work the way I would plan them and, and I had this huge break, breakdown in the middle of the race and, fortunately, um, because, thanks to my team and then, and my mom was there too, my mom was there too and I was really tired and I was really tired and I was really, my sister, my brother, they all, um, they all helped me a lot to, to, to, to stay confident and come back to, to end this race properly, yeah.
And that, that must have worked really well, because I remember watching on Live Track and I was walking in some miserable heat somewhere. I had a pretty hard day getting into Chamonix, and you were, you were... We're having an epic flight on the east side from Chamonix down to St. Hilaire, where you really, you spanked a lot of people in front of you. a nice move there that was yeah yeah
It was a nice, um, a nice gamble again in the middle of the mountains, rather than in the pre-alps. Another gamble, it didn't work as well as I thought, but it worked a little bit, yeah.
Well, you were able to stay high. That was the key, that was the key, and you kind of pieced it all together. Okay, final question, because I know you got to go: how hard was it, and what can you teach me about not doing it in 2021? Well, did you watch every second, or did you just totally ignore it to
Be honest, um, normally after 2017 I wanted to stop, and I came back on 219 because of my injury on 217, so it was already like an extra, an extra, um, uh, edition for me. And it was clear that I had to stop, and I wanted to stop in 219 because it was hard for the family and it was a lot of commitment. So when we, when we stopped in 219, it was clear, and I wanted to try some other stuff too. So it was easy at the beginning, but for my supporter it wasn't that easy because I, I could, uh, my supporter would just, um, you know, put my computer on the right page at the right moment just to be sure I wouldn't miss the reply, you know, on, on, on summer at the end of the summer, um, but, but it was clear on my, it was clear for me that I had to stop, and, um, and, and I had a great time watching the race on the screen, um...
Two years ago, I mean, yes, two years ago now. And um, and um, I also helped a lot of people on the phone when they came back to France. Um, I was, um, uh, you know, I was following Maxime and, um, and Laurie and many French pilots and congratulate them. I mean, it was, it was not my time anymore, and I'm really proud to see that those guys are super strong and they're doing super well. So it's, it's normal for me to, to move on and to do other things. I mean, the younglings are, are strong enough to, and probably they will, probably, probably win and beat Chrigel, hopefully at last.
I remember you you telling me in 2019, which I think was Maxime's first year, that that you really thought Maxime was the was the biggest threat. Who who is it? I'm putting you on the spot here, but who's the who do you think's the biggest threat? We saw Maxime gave him a hell of a run for his money, but Chrigel still just slaughtered it at the end. That was an incredible move, yeah.
Last year, it's for me. I didn't, I don't think Chrigel was far ahead. Chrigel had a lot of luck last year. And Maxime could have beat him easily. He beat him several days in a row. I think if Maxime, the problem if Maxime stays, uh, strong in his head, that's his main, um, it's that's the main issue. If it stays strong, he's, he think he flies better. I mean, he's, I think he can beat him, but I mean, there are plenty of great pilots on the list, so it's going to be fun to watch. And, um, and, uh, but for sure when I see, um, you know, old guys just, uh, that were fighting with me in 215, 217, and 219, I'm saying I just tell myself that it would be nice to, to share the race together, but that's it.
We have to, we have to change, we have to do other things. I agreed, agreed.
Gaspar, what a delight it was! Great connecting with you and, uh, we miss you, buddy. And, and, but love what you're doing with your family, and I hope to grab some thermals with you here someday. But thanks a lot, appreciate your time, and thanks for coming on the show, yeah.
Thank you very much. Um, it's been a pleasure, and hopefully we can travel and see you, uh, and see your little girl. How old is she? Two years? Five? She's five, and five years, I know.
Man, okay. As you know, it goes fast, yeah.
Okay, hopefully we can meet. Be great, that'd be great. See you soon.
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