Thank you.
X-Alps. We wind it back to his first in 2013, where he had Chrigel in the sights for a little while. And then we go up through all of his campaigns through the last one in 2021 and talk about his preparation and what's going on for his next one in 2023. As you can hear, the bell's in the background. We recorded this sitting next to one another in his apartment last night. And there is, we're in Mexico, there's music, so a little bit of background noise, but I think it's pretty good. I mean, this won't be too bad. And Miles always does this wonderful job of cleaning things up. So, yeah, enjoy these crazy stories. There's a lot of them. Pretty, pretty, pretty entertaining stuff. And, yeah, don't try this at home. Cheers.
Aaron, neither one of us really crushed the Superfinal, but it's nice to see you here in Mexico.
Yeah, nice to see you, too. And as I told you before, this Superfinal was not so good for me.
And after today's bomb out, I was really, really sad. And then I went for a hike and fly. And then during the hiking, I was pushing. And then when I was flying, I realized, OK, you don't have to be sad because you can't be like middle or so, so good. You are either good or really, really bad. This time I was really, really bad. Well, no
one else can say they've won it twice. What, you twice win? Yeah, I was
twice first, one second, two times twice fourth, one time six. And then 100. And this time I think about 80 or 60. I don't know.
It's all or nothing with you, man.
Kind of. But anyway, it's sad. When? When it comes to the low, it's ugly. It's ugly. Yeah.
There's always a point in these competitions where I think, what the fuck am I doing? Why am I even here? Why am I wasting my time? Then you win and you're like, yes, this is the best thing ever. I want to do nothing but this. Exactly like this. Yeah. It's like life. It has its ups and downs. Yeah, it is. So I got to see you maybe at least that we talked about this, but we haven't talked about it on the podcast. I got to see you at the XC. It's Red Rocks coming off Pakistan and the Dolomiti and some phenomenal results this year. In my view, you're stronger than you've ever been. I don't know physically, but you just seem like you're really at a prime point. Maybe not at the Superfinal, but you're going into your sixth X-Alps.
I think I have that right. And you've talked before that the X-Alps has always been the one that you really haven't totally cracked the code. Now, in our perspective, you've done really well, but for sure, you're the kind of guy that wants to win. And we're going to kind of rewind the clock. And as we've done with a few others now, I'm calling it a walk and fly down memory lane in the X-Alps. So take us back to 2013, your first. How long had you been with Red Bull at that point?
It was just a year I entered in Red Bull. Okay. And it was the year I won the first Superfinal. Yeah. In Red Bull. In Rodanillo. In Rodanillo. Yeah. And so I went into the race without having much experience in hike and fly race, but I was already physically quite strong. Yeah.
Flying wise, I was for sure good, but definitely the hike and fly competition was something new for me. In a way, I feel a little bit the pressure of... Doing good because, you know, you come from being the World Cup winner and you go on the X-Alps.
Yeah. In the end, I didn't do bad because I managed to reach Monaco and be, I think, in seventh position. But I learned super a lot in that X-Alps. At the time was Renata. Yeah. My supporter, which is basically my wife. And a very good friend of mine, Ondra, which is now racing this year.
That's going to be great.
And yeah, we was completely lost. We was really lost. And it was at the time still the time with no really good phone, smartphone. So the navigation was totally different. It was still on maps. Yeah. So we navigate on maps. And yeah. And it was probably the most adventure X-Alps I did. Since 2013, it becomes for me more professional, more knowing what's going on, what you can do better. And actually, I had really up and down in this race as I'm usually having on the X-Alps.
You know, I remember, not to butt in, but I watched that one. I was glued to it. So I was starting to think maybe 2015. And the first day... And then the Chrigel flew so fast. I mean, that was where I think the whole world went, this guy can get him. And then he had that move off the Zugspitze.
No, it was before Zugspitze. So basically, he took off a little bit in front of me. And we fly the Pinzgau Valley, which is kind of highway. And I was flying good. I was flying quite fast. But then when it came to cross the Innsbruck Valley, going to the Karwendel, basically, Chrigel managed to be like, I guess it was like 20, 30 minutes in front of me. And that just made the race. That was the race. Because I had to land. I mean, I remember really like it was one minute ago. I had a blitz from a thunderstorm, maybe a couple of hundred meters next to me while flying.
And then, okay, I say, okay, fuck it. Now I have to land. And Chrigel jumped. Just went through this mortar before me. So probably wasn't that ugly. But for sure, it was not also pretty. And yeah. And then basically, he was again one day in front of us and was doing another race. And he
made that Zugspitze move the next morning. Remember, he did that 30K. Wasn't it off? No, basically,
he was on the Zugspitze that evening. Did he take
off the morning, though?
I don't remember if he took off in the morning or in the night. But anyway, we was in Innsbruck. Because then I was there as first, but stuck. And the other came. And from there on, you can go. So the pack get closer. Then I remember I was, yeah, it was super cool. I did the Zugspitze by hiking with Tommy, with Coconair. Yeah. And we arrived on top. And we was, I mean, we was walking in the snow till the hips. And it was, we was totally destroyed. And. And we arrive up and we eat like French fries and Wiener Schnitzel and all these things. And it was raining as well. And then I say, okay, fuck it.
I will not walking down the Zugspitze. So I'm going to fly whatever the weather is. And it was at least not a thunderstorm, but it was heavily raining. And so I say, at the time I was flying Boomerang. And I tested. I was the test pilot of that glider. I know it's flying also by. Very wet and rain. So I took off. And I remember while flying, I was totally wet, totally wet. It was like to be down a shower. And then I point like one ski slope on the direction I want to fly. And I say myself, okay, don't touch the brake. Don't touch nothing. Just go on the full bar till one meter on the ground. And then you release yours. You're done. And like this, it went. So I land safe on a.
Like one third of. The ski slope and next by was a hot. So I was totally wet. The glider was wet. Everything was wet. And I went into this hut, which was close, but the owner was there and he opened me and, uh, and, and I say, yeah, can I please try my stuff? And he said, what the f why you are flying, what you are doing. And I remember he helped me to, uh, upside down the glider and take out the water. I had liters of water in the glider. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. good flight and a strong day. And then again, the down. The day after I broke my glider and I was second in the morning and in the evening I was 12 and like kind of 80, 90 kilometers behind the second. So like really, really bad. And then took my first night pass. And remind us of the weather
because that was the year Chrigel did it in like six days. He kind of got out in front of you guys got douched. Yeah,
it was like so, so exhaled. It was not super good, not super bad for the back. And then basically I remember I also took the night pass in Swiss and I walked the whole night, really the whole night. And the funny story. It was that I was hiking on the Alpenpass above Decentis.
And it was like two, three in the morning and I was doing everything by my own. I was walking alone because the time I didn't have someone walking with me. So I was walking and I was super tired. And and then I start to see down in the valley some I don't know, some guys was there with some fire. And then in my brain, like this. Fire to walk. I don't know how it calls in English. And then basically in my brain, I don't know why I was so tired. I start to think those guys should be some satanic clip.
And then I was super scared.
I was super tired. I start to run.
Like two or three in the morning. But what the fuck? Doing Swiss people around with fire in the night. That was super, super, super scary.
And then it goes on and on.
And then I think two days after I did the biggest flight of my X-Alps. I think I did a 240 kilometer flight. I remember that. Yeah. And that flight was really amazing because I was super tired. And I remember. remember very well that by crossing um verbier i was falling asleep like the the old time and like i really tried to kick myself and shout to to be awake and the old transition but i managed to keep awake and once i managed to get on a face it was like i don't know any name but it was a big mountain rocky face so i was expecting strong thermal i enter in the thermal and i was quite close to the to the cliff like maximum 100 meter next to it then i fell asleep
as you do
so yeah and then it goes on and on i was completely lost in south of french and then another funny thing happened was the day before i managed to get in the goal i was in the isola valley and it came a thunderstorm so i managed somehow to land backwards high up on 2000 meter on a mountain and i'm thinking okay good i'm gonna wait here and we'll see and i find a little hut uh of uh you're on the
french side of on the french french
side of uh shepherds and uh i enter in this hut just to cover i mean to don't be down the rain and the thunderstorm and i'm there chilling out and and then i start to hear like dogs and i think what the fuck and then it came like three four dogs like these uh sheep dogs super angry on me and i was thinking okay they're gonna eat me they're gonna for sure eat me and i was like basically on the inside the little hut but it didn't have a door and the dogs they basically where the door should be and they are barking on me and i'm inside and i'm just shaking and there's nobody there it's not no no one's house yeah yeah it's like not even a house yeah okay and so i'm thinking okay they're gonna eat me for sure they're gonna eat me oh fuck and and then like for sure this was like a couple of minute situation and then someone i mean the shepherd came and take out the dogs and it was not a shepherd man but it was an old woman like 70 plus maybe even 80 years old and she take out the dogs and then we try to communicate me in italian and she in french and and i was trying to explain that i came with a paraglider from austria and so yeah that was 2013 how did you break your glider basically i
i did my first flight and it was like a fun fun day and uh it wasn't going so good so i decided to land but i was still high uh i land uh two-thirds of the mountain but it was really windy and gusty i put down my glider landed safe but then i was close to a a vent and then it comes a gas really strong and i wasn't able to to to put down my glider so it dragged me a little bit it went over the vent and it was this vent with the iron spine oh and and it just an avalanche
vent no
no the one for for the cows oh man yeah barbed
wires yeah
yeah and then basically i had a huge hole and many little holes uh and then what i did i think yeah i fly down in the middle of the mountain and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die down in the valley and then with my supporter we kind of stick it together yeah i didn't change the glider i finished the excerpts with that glider well i think we used uh meters of ripstop and yeah and then i fly with it
oh my gosh yeah okay so that's some good highs and lows and that was that was the no what what year did they start and you started at the uh you didn't start at the dockstein no no i started helping helping helping helping
helping helping helping helping
Okay. Okay. But you made it that year and it's seventh.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. The first six apps, I made it to the goal. Yeah.
Okay. 2015.
Yeah. 2015. My first with you. Yeah. It was this super shitty day where we was together. Yeah. Yeah. That was the low. Yeah. Oh my God. Terrible. I
got to remind people. So Aaron and I, we walked off the, the Kimsey. Yeah. And remember, uh, Gaspar flew a couple hours later and flew over all our heads. You had a pretty good day still, but I had a wicked bad day that day. Holy smokes. But you and I, we, we, we got to our, we, we did that little flight across the river and we got with my supporters cause yours weren't around and, uh, you, you peeled the bottom of your feet off. It wasn't that day. And it was later, later in the race, I saw some video where you literally peeled the bottom, but it was that day that screwed up our feet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Completely toasted from that day. Remember when you lost your, your Garmin thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As we were climbing up that mountain. I lost the Garmin
and it was no water, super hot. Really hot. Yeah. Really hot. That was terrible.
Okay. So that, was that the low of that race?
Yeah. That was the low and about 2.15, I think it was the XR with a lot of wind. A lot of wind. And I remember a kind of a high was like, um, my flight from Chamonix. Yeah. Basically. From the Brenta. Yeah. The day before I, I, I pulled the night pass because I want to be in Chamonix the day after, but I managed to get on Chamonix by, by flying basically. And so I decided to don't use my night pass and I rest. Yeah. So in the morning I hike up like the classical, uh, the Brenta. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I took off there and it was the next turn party.
It was ANSI. Yeah. And that was a straightforward, like, I really liked this area and I fly good. Make it to the, to the turning point ANSI. And then I took off again. And I remember the forecast was really wind, but they say, yeah, maybe on the big, big mountain, it will be kind of okay. By it was not really okay. I mean, it was, we was me, uh, Antoine and Gaspar flying together. Yeah. And I remember we always liked. Um, turn before every phase and wait, like flying backwards to get like the wave flying backwards over the peak and then turn again with the wind and go on. Punch it. Yep. And we did these a couple of times.
And I remember I was on radio with my supporter, which was on the Gallipierre. And I asked how strong is the wind? And they told me, well, it's so strong that you don't have even to think about landing. Just keep on flying till midnight because it's no way to land. It's nuking. So anyway, I passed the Gallipierre and at least, you know, when you are in the shit, if you are with someone else, it's, you feel better. And anyway, we keep on going, keep on going. Just the ugliest thing I had maybe overall, it was that, uh, on one of those big phase, I did like I was doing before. So I turned myself. Um, facing the wind flying backwards and waiting to, to climb on the face, but I didn't climb basically.
So I came closer and closer and closer, and I was still not climbing and thinking, what the fuck I'm gonna crash into the face. And so I'm there waiting and thinking what to do, what to do, what to do. And when I get really close to it, then I get the lift, but it was just enough to pull me over the, the, the peak. And then down to the other side. And then I was in the lee side of this monster wind facing towards Brianne zone and basically Italy. And I remember I was just saying myself, I want to go in Italy. I want to go in Italy.
Please, please, please. I want to survive.
And then after that, I call my, again, my supporter, which by the way, they drive down towards Brianne zone. And I said, I want to go in Italy. And they say, please tell me, tell me how much is the wind I want to land. And they told me, no, no, no way. Forget it. You're going to die. You want to kill yourself. If you try to land here, stay in the air. And I say, but I don't want anymore. I really don't want.
Were you still with Antoine and Gaspard? No, there
we split out. It actually was on drugs. Well, because at the time, uh, the supporter could fly. And it was basically, we was four of us. It was on dry. I don't know where he took off. I did. I can't remember, but anyway, he was also in that shit and he got like a super ugly collapse. Mm. Not really close to me. I saw him kind of behind me. I don't remember. Well, and I was thinking, I remember that I was praying for him to survive it because it looks really, really ugly. I
remember that story in Monaco. He was really scared too. Yeah. Yeah. So wicked acro pilot. Yeah. Yeah. You guys were battling.
So yeah. Two 15 was also tough.
I remember one of my best memories from all the races was that year when we got to Monaco and we were all at the campground that night and my, my feet were so mangled that I had a bunch of beers and then I took a whole bunch of oxycodone. So I was really off my head just, and, and listening, we were all sitting in that circle and just listening. Every single person had stories. Yeah. I had this really, I really thought I was going to die in Vars. I, I, I was, I didn't realize I was in, I didn't realize the position I was in and the Valley winds were just nuking. And so I, I land, I top landed just to try to figure out what was going on and I relaunched and it was kind of the time of the day where I didn't know if I should be the East or the West. And I went on the West side and I didn't, I was just completely hidden from the Valley winds where I was.
It was nice and calm. And as soon as I got in the air and I kept going, I would get up a little bit and get in the wind and just smack down and then push and smack down and push. And finally I got to the cold and I thought if I could just sweep through the cold to the, to the windward side, I can get out of here. And I didn't make it through. And my instrument later showed a 20 meter down and, and I, you know, when it's, when it's that strong down, you don't, you can't really steer the, the glider wasn't collapsing. I couldn't really steer. But the only thing I was trying to do was just point for one of those little snowmaking lakes. So I could land in the lake and just survive. I thought it, my only chance is to land in the water. And when I landed, it was just, oh, I couldn't believe I was alive. It was, and we were, so we were all telling these stories of, of these near death experiences.
And I thought, Jesus, this is really hardcore. Yeah, it is. It is. Was that year, was that the year you got washed out of the air by the helicopter too?
Let me think. Or maybe that was 2013. Yeah. It was 13. Yeah. It was 13. The Red Bull helicopter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was also really ugly because I got this collapse. I mean, they was in front of my, um, on the wind side, not super close, but it has to be like the turbulence of the helicopter because basically I was close to the, close to the reach and from nothing. It was even quite calm air. So, like the glider completely disappear and I make 100, one 360 and on the second one, I managed to stop. And with the second one, I will crash into the mountain. So that was, uh, yeah, it was sketchy.
Okay. And I think that, that was your, your. I was on the, also on the gin, on the boomerang. Yeah. Okay. Which one? The white and green. The first we call it just boomerang. I mean, I think it was just calling boomerang. Okay. It was a white and green and then in the two liner. No, no, it was a three liner. Okay. At the time it was the LM five already. No, I'm four. That's the ozone. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Didn't you have, you had quite a good race at the end with those three, those two guys. And then at the, you, you made some mistake that. In two 15. Were you quite close to Gaspar and Antoine at the end? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Now I remember basically, uh, we say, okay, we don't race till close to Monaco because we would just want to survive basically the Isola Valley, which doesn't have landing and whatever. So because we took off together and we say, okay, let's agree. We try to bring ourselves, uh, in a safe place and then we keep on racing. Yeah. But I think quite soon it was, it was a good day. And I wasn't pushing. I tried to stay with the other, but somehow I, I get in front and, um, yeah. And then, and then I was quite in front. So I say, okay, well now I'm pushing and then I push, push, push.
And yeah, I landed 18 kilometer from the finish from Monaco and I was thinking, okay, I'm done. I'm going to be dirt. Yeah. Because it was Chrigel and, uh, uh, Sebastian Hoover. And then it was the year that they make it by flying. Ah, Antoine and, uh, Gaspar and Paul, they all make it by flying. Okay. And I, I get there by walking. Yeah. Okay. Terrible. Yeah.
That's brutal. Yeah. An 18 K down there is longer than 18 K. Yeah. Yeah. It's a
nightmare. At least times four. Yeah. It's a long ways. And also with the navigation we had at the time, we was not so precise. So for sure I did more than what it was necessary to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
2017, your knee. Yeah. 17. It
start okay with the prologue. And then already on the first day I get problems on the knee. So. Was that? Were
the problems initiated or was it, were you having problems with your knee before?
No, no, I never had problems till that first day of the X-Alps. On the prologue I didn't have nothing. I was running thousand vertical meter down, not feeling nothing. Ah, that's
right. That was the prologue. We didn't fly. Yeah. Yeah. And you ran down. Yeah. And it got you and Benoit, a few others got pretty
hurt. Yeah. Yeah. But well, the point was that I start to race with the legs quite tired. Yeah. That's for sure. And then on the first day I was doing, I think a 90 case of yeah, running and walking, running and walking. Yeah. And then it start this crazy pain and, and till that day I never had knee problems, but it's also not that that day it was, I broke something. It was basically my life till that day. And that was the drop too much. And then basically I was not able to walk anymore. So it was. It was really interesting because I keep on race another four days, I think. And by know that I can't walk at all.
I mean, even just hiking up the mountain takes me like three, four hours, 4,000 vertical meter. Yeah. I was really in pain, but then in the air I was flying really good and I was still like on the top five till, uh, till then I had to quit the race and I had to quit the race. Because, um, I did everything good, but then I had to walk. I really had because it was this turn point in, um, uh, Kimse and I had to walk up one mountain and then I fly down from that mountain and by this hike I get more inflammation. And then it came, uh, also the physiotherapist, which, uh, it's working on the trainings.
So I had to walk up to the training center from Red Bull and he look at bit of me and say, look, it doesn't make sense. You follow the race because some, somehow you have also to walk even just a little bit, but a little bit, you will have to walk and, and this it's now too much. And so I quit the race. Yeah.
And then, uh, those knee problems stuck with you for a while.
Yeah. Yeah. That was exactly the drop. A little bit too much. But, uh. But as I say, it was not that I broke myself on the X-Alps. I mean, I'm, I'm a skier and I live, live my life fully. And even at the time I was 30, I had a knee already like a 70 years old, the man. And since that was trying many, many things, actually everything, uh, to get better. I had to change a lot in my life. I have to change. Uh. The training I had to change, uh, many things I like to do. I didn't do it for a while. Like of course running, but even like on skiing, I had to be really careful.
I couldn't jump any cliff anymore.
Um, I stopped, uh, going with the long board, which I like a lot downhill of course. Yeah. Uh, but then through the years I kind of figured it out and of course a lot of help of good people. Uh, especially. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. interesting story because basically that year from Red Bull they sent they organized one of the most famous doctor in Austria for the knees which surgery and they care about many workups here and and I got an appointment to him and basically he watched my MRI and he watched not even five minutes on me on my knee a little bit and he asked me what I'm doing I say I'm a professional athlete and exhalts and I can fly and skiing and stuff and he say well I think that was it uh he did yeah he say whoa really straight like he told me like that was it look for uh look for another job really yeah yeah whoa I was the best one and he was one of the best yeah so yeah at the time I had a really big low yeah it was really hard to get uh up again from this also because everything I like to do it was it was getting not possible to do anymore like I wasn't able even to compete on uh normal paragliding competition because I was not able to push the speed bar anymore in the in the very bad period of this story I was really in pain I was like from a zero to ten I was constantly on five to six so it was all the time like I couldn't walk uh stairs and I mean I could walk but with pain and and I was in this loop of pain I was tough it was really tough and I was actually thinking that I mean it was a very realistic option that I'm gonna make a protest on the knee which will means okay it's over yeah for for being an athlete yeah right and and then yeah and then it was interesting because one of the doctor of the training center which is not specialist of knees he just say okay now let's give one more try we try to do um uh strength training and build up muscle and then I did that for uh three months and really I kind of uh my pain becomes the half really and then and then it was step by step like I was still being between three from zero to ten about a three and then I was still being between three and then I was still being between three and then I was still being between three and then I was still being between one more year to be on two one to two and now yeah now I'm mostly basically since that or after one year I start to write every day I really write every day what I do and how much pain I feel so I can look back and uh and see okay this week I did so and so and so this kind of stuff and and the pain increase increase and I'm not so much pain I'm not so much pain I'm not so much pain I'm not so much pain I'm not so much pain I know okay be careful I know okay be careful I know okay be careful you have to take out these things or do you have to take out these things or do you have to take out these things or do less less less and anyway now in the last year and and anyway now in the last year and and anyway now in the last year and that's that's that's for sure one of the reason why the last for sure one of the reason why the last for sure one of the reason why the last hike and fly season was for me amazing hike and fly season was for me amazing um first of all from the result but also um first of all from the result but also um first of all from the result but also from the feeling from the feeling from the feeling I was mostly between zero to one so So it means I feel my knee, but it's not a handicap.
Right.
It's just totally tolerable. Yeah. I've seen a lot of the videos you posted training in your garage. I think it's your garage. Yeah. And it's the same stuff that Ben – I mean I had knee pain for 20-something years. I've had nine knee surgeries and I have no cartilage in either knee. And he – when I decided I wanted to do the 2015 race, that was the biggest thing. I could barely walk off a curb. Sometimes I would walk off and it would be fine. Sometimes I would walk off and it would do this weird thing and it would seize up and it was really painful. And he trained all the pain. I haven't had any pain since the first race because it was the same stuff you're doing. It's all the strength training and mobility and stretching and rolling all the time. I just spend so much time doing that and it was – the strength training seemed to just solve it.
Yeah. It can compensate for all the joints. I think everything I did, it helps a little bit. But because I have been also – I was in the US. I get the injection there. I have been doing probably something like 50 plasma infiltration in my knee where normal people does three in them life. Okay. I did about 50 probably. What is that? They take your blood. Okay. Oh, centrifugal. Yeah. Centrifugal. Yeah. Okay. And then it's blood split between plasma. And something else, which I don't know. And then they take this plasma and they put it in the knee. Wow. This I did – I started doing it in Verona.
Because after this famous doctor in Austria, I find the equivalent in Italy. And I went to him and I say, well, this doctor say that. What do you think about? And he say, no, you will race. And so – You like
him. I
decided to believe in him. That's an easy choice.
So I did a surgery as well. And then he start with this plasma stuff. And then I keep on doing this plasma. I was in Austria on the training center of Red Bull. And yeah, what else? Yeah. I was thinking to go to Lourdes. You know Lourdes? No. It's where the mother of Jesus appeared. Oh, Lord.
Please, God. Save my knee. That's great. Well, OK. So let's go to 2019. Because in many ways, from an outside perspective, 2019 was the race that I was just blown away with what you did. Because we had that walk together, as we often do early in the race. And you were telling me that you're whole – you had an alpinist supporter. You had a team that year. You changed your team. And you said, I'm not walking. I'm going to do the whole thing as an alpinist. I'm going to camp high and I'm going to fly this whole damn thing. And you basically did. Yeah. It was really a cool approach. And you told me at the end, you got to Monaco and you told me at the end, you walked 19K or something on the road.
No, 40. 40. Yeah. That's just unbelievable. I had a lot of days where I did more than that, just in a day on the road.
No, I did a really good job. I did a really good X-Alps.
You know, the point was, I didn't know if I will be in the race one day, two days, three days. Every day was a gift because I didn't know what my knee will do. And definitely, I know that I can't push on him. I can do vertical meters. That I did a lot. But even just walking, not running – running was not an option at all. But even walking on the flat on Aspen. Aspen was as well not an option. And the only time I had to do it, it was to Santillers. And it was like a 21-kilometer push and that was it. And then I did a couple of two-kilometer here and three there and whatever. Right. There's
that great footage of you walking out of the Geisberg, you know. Yeah. Dead last. And then you were still one of the top – to the top. I mean, as soon as you get to the hill, you're just a lightning bolt. But you
walked out
of the Geisberg. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. guys of the organization so i mean not he saw me i asked him where do i have to go and he sent me basically to the cable car because he was thinking i'm not racing i'm just like a tourist there you know so i'm i'm getting to the cable car station and i say to another guys where should i go now where is the path and he said but are you an athlete i say yeah i'm yes and he said but you are wrong you can't take the cable car you have to go the other way i said what the fuck the other guys told me i have to go here so i did like another kilometer more and then i keep on walking all the asphalt street and then we get finally on the ski slope quite steep and there i start to push and i was i think six seven yeah yeah yeah yeah
you beat me into the top of it that day
you fucker yeah like up here i'm strong yeah just i couldn't walk on the flat but um i mean i think i was really lucky because the weather of 219 it was the best weather yeah we could have in the matter no no never wind and if it's gonna was raining it was just some light rain it was not thunderstorm
anywhere anywhere
that year anywhere you were you could take off i think that was the biggest luck i had to be in this situation with my need that i had to do this approach of not walking but from the other side having the weather which give me the chance to do the race like i want to yeah and actually till the very end again i was like fighting for i think second third third or fourth place something like this and in the very end i fuck it up like i'm normally doing because i decided to take a route which didn't work and uh and then yeah and then i had to walk you
told the story before actually
yeah now i have a funny story about that night because again i didn't want to walk on the asphalt yeah so ellie which was my supporter and she will be on the X-Alps next year as an athlete ah that's right yeah yeah i'm interviewing her in the morning i told her yeah make me a route where the shortest and it can be up down whatever anyway i have like a strategy for the down because walking down was as well not the
same way
an option for me yeah really not even a hundred vertical meter yeah it was not an option yeah so i basically walk everything up and on the way down i have crutches
what yeah we had we had in the camper we had crutches
that is awesome i was told it to my i
was told it to my
to my supporter be careful with this no one has to see them
okay well that was the year you've already told the story of the you you were flying through lagrave which is one of the most beautiful places in the world i i also had an amazing flight through there it was od and stuff but at that point i didn't care anymore and but it was you were watching youtube videos to stay away but do you have any more do you have a a high from from 2019 did you remember like that that was it was really special but
i think that 2019 it was all in all like a good time like we often stop early uh one of the best place ever i stopped it was on the arab easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier
easier easier
easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier easier
on the plateau and we slept there on the camper with uh the view of the mont blanc like amazing and basically i was already on the takeoff means i wake up like at 8 30 yeah i wake up at 8 30 i had a massage from tazio and i walked like 20 minutes and i was on the takeoff downside that that day was super stable so super stable so normally the arab is you don't do one turn not not even one you just stick on the on the face and you just fly straight to something there and that day was like a sauna yeah it was like up and down and doing hike and fly like to get to something there and in the very end i had to walk this 20 21 kilometer i
had an experience there i was a day behind you guys here we we we and i walked up to a perfect launch i had got three or four flights getting out of chamonix and getting down to this place and we we were putting we were packing snow onto our balls and onto the back of our neck it was so hot and it was the same it was 100 degrees in the valley and it was 100 degrees at the top of the mountain it was incredible i've never seen anything like that in the haze and
it was just it was i think it was santiller valley was about 40 degrees and i remember that night i slept so bad and that's why it was the the flight after was the one i was again i don't
know youtube videos falling
asleep and i started to watch youtube videos to to stay awake because it was really super hot like it
was incredible yeah that was it for me that was the worst weather of all the ex alps because it was just we got to this launch at 3 p.m it was perfect and i didn't get a single blip all the way to the valley floor and then i walked 40k to st alere it was just it was it was just torture i landed and went i can't believe i just did all that work yeah to do it was a sauna oh it was a sauna yeah that was brutal okay so 2021 the first time we don't go to monaco it's the out and back and uh you were having one you were really in there
yeah in 2021 i was already good on my knee yeah so again the strategy changed a bit because i could walk who's
your team
uh bruno so this mountain guide which would be my my supporter so on the next ex-alps it was ellie yeah which would be an athlete on the ex-alps and that's pretty cool
that two of your supporters are gonna be in it this year
that's really cool and then it was daniele which is a photographer and it was tazio and it was the year of the lamborghini so yeah my supporter was uh uh driving quite a fancy car and i don't know if
you know this but tazio supported me in 2015 for a few days it was
great yeah it was awesome and yeah the 2021 um it start okay like actually the very first day i was the beginning very good then kind of average i spent the first night uh in a tent again uh to be up yeah high and then keep on going quite good yeah
i was like i was like a little bit uh towards
uh zookspitze i think i was third fourth something like this uh then i had the first super ugly flight from the zookspitze i mean not the zookspitze but there was yeah um yeah there i was flying i think it was the record of my speed i had 110 kilometer an hour geez uh and not in the stratosphere no no it was not storm it was just wind um i was like i
was like i was like i was like
150 meter over the ground and i was flying 100 k's in hour so that was quite sketchy um in the
end valley yeah yeah okay
and but there i i basically it's this pass fern pass going down to the in valley and i fly this valley out and this wind just pushed me out but on the other side you had a mountain so again i turned myself before the mountain facing the wind flying backwards getting before the mountain i was catapulted in this in the stratosphere and i remember that was also quite funny because at the beginning i was super low and i was scary and then i was getting too high i was scary as well
and at the same time when i'm there and climbing with four or five meter and not seeing an end of climbing i'm seeing towards my home place merano and i'm thinking what the now i turn and i go home i don't want anymore
but then yeah probably you see this video in the end then i landed in the valley flying backwards it was quite a viral video of my flying backwards and blah blah blah but i survived it when i landed i take like a 10 snooze and i say what the now i don't fly today for sure anymore and i chill a bit and then i'm gonna walk then the day after was one of the best day for me at the aesthetics helping i took off with the idea i'm gonna do a hike and fly towards st anton and it turns uh out that i land in sweden
you're trying to get to santas yeah okay yeah yeah i was the
first uh to get incentives and i was the only one doing by flying but where i took off actually was funny i really took off with nothing thing because I was thinking I'm going to just glide down and I take off and, and I had a thermal, so I, okay, let's make this thermal up a little bit. Then I go forward and another thermal, I'm thinking, okay, start to be cold, but okay. I make that one too. And then I, no jacket, you've got nothing, nothing. Just get your speech. And then I'm going to some tantrum where I was supposed to walk there and taking off from there and I'm passing some tantrum. I'm thinking, what the fuck? So I'm calling my supporter.
I say, if I top land now here, can you bring me the stuff? Yeah, it's going to take two hours. I say, oh fuck, the day is too good.
You just kept going. I keep on going. Actually, no, I have to say the truth. I top land because I had to shit.
And I took off. And then. I keep on going, keep on going, keep on going. And I make it to the Santis. And I make it to the Santis. So you
thermaled all the way across the valley? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What, early in the morning?
Yeah, I took off, I don't know, at nine in the morning. Unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. And Krieger and Patrick was way in front of mine. And they bombed, going, I think, quite close to the Santis. And just make it by flying. And I'm thinking, okay, cool. And then. Exactly like I felt, okay, this is some bad karma now came because it was too good. So I'm making the Santis by air and I have a convergence line in the direction I have to go. So I'm thinking, wow, I just keep on going, keep on going. And I see like literally disappearing this convergence just in front of mine. So I'm going and bam, disappear.
I'm going to the next one, disappear. And the next one disappear. And I'm on the ground. And then I'm starting to walk and Krieger and Patrick take off and fly just above my hand. And I'm thinking, what the fuck?
And then, well, I, yeah, I keep on doing hike and fly because it was still early. Yeah. And then I had the first very sketchy, sketchy in a way, sketchy situation that day with, I basically miss an airspace. I don't know how it calls this valley.
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in Italy, it's from zero to 100, 60, you pass, and 59, you don't pass, 100, it's maximum. And I did this exam, and I managed to get 60, like 60, not 61, and not 59. Just barely. And I remember that it was still like three weeks after, I was still asking to my friend, are you sure I make it? Are you sure I make it? And so they took, at the time it was not a smartphone, so they take a copy of this paper which was hanging on the school to show me, yeah, you take 60, you made it. The same thing was with this airspace.
Basically, I took off, it was coming a thunderstorm, and it was starting to be late. And I say, no, no, I will make it, I will make it, I don't want to sleep up here, you know. And so... And so, Eli told me, don't take off, sleep up there, we come there, you will fly for sure into the airspace. And I say, no, no, no, I will make it. So I'm taking off, being, of course, way too optimistic, and I get splashed down, and basically the airspace, it's on the valley and touching a little bit the mountain. And I'm really splashed down, splashed down, go down, go down, and in the very end, basically on the tree and the airspace, it's 100 meter, 90 meter, 50 meter, 10 meter.
And on the last corner where the airspace ends, I managed by two meters to get out of it. And landed? And landed in the valley in a field. So it was scary. But
you did hit airspace,
right, later? But way later. Okay, so keep going,
let's get to that. Yeah,
basically then... The day after, start really bad. I was sick, super sick. I don't know what I got, but I basically vomited and I had diarrhea. I was really bad. And I had a long hike in front of me to a pass. So I went super slow. Maxim overpassed me, Patrick. Krieger was already in front.
Got to this pass and then I was...
Where are
you now? I don't know.
I don't know
how it calls this pass. It's before Andermatt.
Okay, so you're still going. You're still going now. Yeah,
yeah. Basically where Theo and Nicola crashed.
Ah, okay, okay. In that valley with all the cables. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And
now I have the story of the cable. Ah, okay. So basically, first of all, I have to say I was lucky because then it came like a storm and start to rain really hard. And so no one can do nothing. And so I was in the camper and taking some tea. Try to get better my stomach and then stop rain. And I think I was with Benoit. Yeah, I was with Benoit. And we hiked like 50 meter over the pass. And basically in front of us, it was some little rain. And in front of us was totally cloud cover. And I had some turning point where to fly. Basically where Patrick and Krieger was a side valley. And I say, yeah, I would make it.
Maybe the thickness. It's not so big. I'm always quite optimistic. So I took off. And then with Benoit and then we fly, fly, fly into this valley. And then it's one little hole between all the clouds and Benoit start to spiral down. And I think that's smart, but I'm not gonna do it.
So.
Oh, Aaron, I love it.
That's what I should do, but I'm not gonna do it.
So I keep on going and then I realize, okay, I'm now in the shit. I'm totally in the fog. I don't see nothing, literally nothing. And I know that I'm in a narrow valley in the Swiss full of cable. And I'm thinking, okay, what can I do? So I start to look at my phone. And luckily I had internet connection. So I'm putting the. No, actually not on my phone, but on my. Well, on my phone, on the Naviter application, the CU. Yeah. And I'm starting to put the satellite picture and looking for fields and press on it and see which glide ratio I need to get there. So I press one and it was too much like 15 or 20.
So I press another one. I press another one till I find one to glide ratio nine. I say, okay, this should be my one. And I'm flying totally blind. Just looking at the Google maps. And okay, these nine should be good. So I'm following, following the arrow and I'm going, going, going, going, going, going, going. Okay. I should be almost here. Bang. I landed. What? You
couldn't see the whole way to the ground.
And then even worse is that basically. I land, I start to pack. I send my position. My guys make it super quickly there to me because there was a street going up and we start to walk up and little by little, the sky it's clearing up. And I see, I basically pass below one cable next to another and above another. So just poor luck. Good thing you didn't
see him.
And then, and then it was also funny because it was Benoit. Maxime. And me. And basically I think I was in the front of them. Yeah, I was, I think in the front. We have, because of course, Benoit did the spiral, the intelligent thing. So I'm actually going easy because before I was so sick, but then we see, okay, the weather it's really ugly. It's going to be a shit flight. And I say to Bruno. Yeah. I think we should take off first because if I will see them flying. Okay. I will be get scared. So we get up in the end. It was like racing to get up as first, but not because you have some advantage just because you will not see what the other will have as a shit flight.
And so like this, we race, race, race. We arrive up. I opened the glider. Bruno helped me a few things and basically me and Benoit took off together and Maxime was still not ready. And we took off. And it was like super hardcore, like going up, collapse, down, collapse, up, down, up, down. And Bruno told me after that, yeah, Maxime change a little bit the face after.
But yeah, then, yeah, then we keep on going. It was under mud, still rain. Then I did some.
So the Cable Valley, I can't remember what the pass is really flat there. So that's where you're talking. You flew on the airplane. You
flew on the other
side where there's still all the cables. Yeah, but
we fly in a side valley. Yeah. And get quite close to under
mud. You went up into the Rhine from there. I don't know. That the Rhine is the Descentis one.
No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. No, no. We went basically, I arrived to under mud from a highway in the end. Okay. We did this shitty flight, which was really shit the first 500 meter or maybe a thousand and down in the valley was okay. Oh. Interesting. Interesting wise. Yeah. Um, and yeah, then I landed, I landed, I landed next to the highway kind of on a street anyway, and then walk to under mud. Then I did a hike and fly. Basically I hike and on the mountain and Benoit was walking on the street and in the end I took off and planned exactly again to him. But I was happy because I didn't walk on the asphalt. So it was good. Then went to the Furka.
Had this shit flight from the Furka down with this ugly, super ugly cloud, uh, coming down from the, uh, yeah. Yeah. Terrible. Yeah. But yeah, down the rain for sure. It was raining as well. Uh, then get the next day to fish was going so, so not really good, but I was always in, in the, in the leaders. Um, and then I had a very. The worst. Day in the day crossing the Mont Blanc basically. And actually in these examples, I did everything quite good. I was quite happy with my performance and I'm still happy. And I think I did just one real mistake, but I pay so much for it because I was the only one from the leaders, which didn't make it over the Mont Blanc.
Yeah. And this cost me one and a half day. Yeah. So. What was the worst? Was that
what, what happened there?
Basically I, I took off, uh, on the turn point, uh, uh, this turn point close to the lake of. Yeah. Geneva. Yeah. And then it was stable. I was with Simon over owner. Yeah. It was stable, but we was fighting and somehow I didn't fly bad getting to Samoa there. I had to do a little hike again, took off again. And then basically I didn't. I'm now I know now, since I did the, the Mont Blanc air tour, if I will have done the Mont Blanc air tour before this last X-Alps, I will not do the same mistake I did. But basically for me, there was everything new. Ellie tried to give me the direction, but sometimes me in the air, I, I, I can't understand what she mean exactly.
And, and in a way what. I think it's, it's not in my brain. I can't figure it out in the air. Yeah. So I ended, ended up doing that. What I know. And I fly the, it called the last year. Which is the only thing in this era. I know because on the past X-Alps, I always fly there. Yeah. And it didn't work. Okay. So basically it was a left or right the cheese on, I took a ride and it didn't work, but even worse was that. I, I went to the. I went to the top of this mountain and I get really big sink become before getting into it. And then I had like a soaring session.
And thinking, okay, I'm going to make it, I'm going to make it, I'm going to make it. And then bam landed. And a half an hour later, like a 10 or 15 beginners with like a glider took off and they go in stratosphere. So. I was thinking, okay, that's really too much.
That's really too much.
That's my life. It's up and down.
I had an experience in the 2015 race. When you, when you three took off from the Brevont, I was back at the Cole, just about 20 K back from you guys. And like you said, it was perfect. I mean, there was, it was so easy to fly to Annecy. Yeah. And Annecy is a place I know really well. And I flew really fast to the Brevont and I saw you guys and I flew to the air V and there's clouds and I bomb on the backside of plan Faye. And then I get eaten by two Rottweilers. Okay. And do you remember that day? There were three, 400 people in the sky. Everyone is flying around on a gliders and I'm, and I'm an ex ops pilot and I'm getting eaten by dogs on the backside. Just cussing at myself. I can. What is that? That's amazing. It's amazing. Okay.
So then you had to walk around Mont Blanc. Yeah. I had to walk. But I have
to say, okay, that day I was really sad, almost sad in a way sad, like today, for example, when I bombed really sad, but then somehow, you know, you think, okay, life it's going on and the race it's going on. And so I tried to enjoy and actually enjoy because I did basically part of the ultra trail of
the race.
Yeah. It was beautiful. Yeah. And then I came to the Italian side and was looking for a good pizza. So I find lead by lead in my motivation and, and I keep on going. And actually I was again racing hard and I was, I was happy. Yeah. I know that I will for sure not win anymore. I know that I will not get the first three, four guys because they are way too in front. I lose one and a half days, but I find my motivation. motivation to keep on racing and I'm racing, racing, racing. And then, and then I hit the airspace and, uh, and there, well, it was quite, I don't know.
That's the Locarno airspace. In Locarno. Um, I don't know anything about airspace. Eli just make everything for me. And on the takeoff, she explained me and she say that I have to fly like this. And this, but in the end end up that either I fly into this airspace or I land into the trees because normally this airspace, it's like, if you stay 50 meter next to the mountain, you can fly under, uh, HGL 50 meter or something like this. You can fly it. Yep. So like this, it's think already the airspace, but actually on X-Alps file was, uh, all the way down. And so basically. I see this, the, the instrument tell me you can go there, but on this side, I had on the tree, I either go in or land in the tree.
And I went in again for just a couple of meters. Yeah. But in the end, she has somehow karma. Like I missed one for two meters and I hit the other for two meters, but it was really no other way. I mean, when I landed, I say, okay, you want to be in the tree? No, you don't want to be in the tree. Yeah. You are safe. It's
good. All good.
So then we keep on going because it wasn't unsure if they give me penalty or not. So I keep on racing. Um, till in the end, they told me, okay, if you take the night pass, then you will get it the day after whatever. So basically I know it, that my race will end up one day before the others. Yep. And so I keep on racing. And then finally I managed to get to my home place and that was fantastic because I did, uh, uh, hardcore flying. I did a flight towards my home place. Then I arrived in my home place. It was terrible weather and I did a flight, which probably I will never do in my life with this shit wind and whatever it was that day. But it was cool because I see my place in the race and with the weather I will never
go to fly otherwise, you know? Yeah. So that day I fly super good and I end up my race. Uh, I think I was fifth or sixth, but then, yeah, then I had to stop. Yeah. Then I basically ended. Yeah. And that's, that's also like, again, karma shit. Uh, like, okay, I'm racing and going, going, going as fast as I can and take the best thermal and, and then I'm looking at the clock. It's five 30 and my race was stopping at five 30. Yeah. And, and then I'm in this valley just behind, behind Chrome. Plots. And I say, okay, it's five 30. I have to go to land and I'm going in the middle of the valley and it just climbing everywhere.
Like literally everywhere, like two meter constant everywhere. And I had to spiral a half an hour to go land. And again, a school of German full the sky of a glider just cruising everywhere and they're spiraling down. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I'm going to land. You know,
Oh, it just crushes your heart. Oh my God. You could have just top landed
Chrome plants and kept going. I
was thinking to just turn off the life tracker and, and do it by myself. Just keep going. But I was also tired in a way when you finish this adrenaline of the, of the race and say, well, what the fuck you go tomorrow in the swimming pool. I was half an hour from one hour from my home place. Yeah. So in the end, that night. I sleep still there with the team. It took a hotter. And the day after I went to my home and I even didn't want to the price ceremony because I didn't have any taste to drive four hours. Yeah. If I'm already home, you know?
Yeah. You're home. So it's kind of neat to finish at home. Um, I got to ask. So the, so five of these, we talked about this a bit at the X red rocks when he came out for there. But, um, I think when people listen to this, they think, God, the risk that these guys are taking. Yeah. You know, the flying in the cloud and all that, how does that change for you over the years? I, I remember you and I did some training together in the 2015 race and you launched that place where we were just training. And I thought, geez, that's a risky, you know, I don't know if you remember that we were up near where Toma got.
It was
really pretty wild air and stuff. And, you know, but, uh, you seem to really thrive on that side of it. The 21, I, I had that in the, but in the 21 race, the weather was so brutal. There were so many times where it was just, you know, you're in the, for me in the air, it's okay. It's, it's not okay. It's not a recreational day by any means. It's, you know, there's lightning and all this stuff going on and, you know, I would land in two minutes later would just be, if I'd been in the sky, it would have been a serious problem. Yeah. Just incredible rain or thunder and brutal.
Well, after the last race and during, by the last days of the race, I was thinking, I was Yeah. I think we are getting, or me at least just me, I don't speak for the other, but I'm getting a little bit, uh, too much on the edge. Like I calculate with my teams, uh, mate, uh, that I had like 12 or 13, I don't remember 12 or 13 situation where I could badly hurt myself during a 12 days race. Yeah. So it's too much. I mean, not even formula one or MotoGP pilot and take out million of euros, uh, risk so much.
Yeah. So I think personally that, uh, when I'm out of the race, I try to think that it's stupid sometimes to risk so much, but the problem is that when you are in the race, you think different. And what I think. And what I hope is
that you're not going to be in the race.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't exist the weather you don't fly anymore. You fly everything. And so we had a first day really nice, safe and everything. And a second and a third day like super hardcore, like really, really hardcore. Like 60 k's of wind on 3000 meters for a paraglider. It's too much. But we fly and we were super efficient and we closed the race. It was a 400 kilometer. It was not that short. And we make it in three days, not even. Basically two and a half day. But on the Dolomiti Superfly, we had way longer race period. And at least I felt when I'm going flying, I'm fresh.
It's
something Kriegel's been pushing the organization every year, but they never do it. It's never changed.
I think we as an athlete has to do something. Because otherwise. I don't know. Well, it's, it's because you can't forbid the fly. Yeah. This it's impossible. Yeah. It's against every concept of this adventure race. But, um, otherwise another option would be just in my eyes to don't give any time. Just make it 24 hours. Yeah. And then every, every day. I think every athlete will find his, uh, best, um, resting period. Yeah. But, uh, I think.
Yeah. Excels. It's tough. I mean, it's 10, 13, the night and five in the morning and for sure, like if it's like, and that's when you're starting,
it's not, you're not going to bed at 30. You're not starting waking up at five. For
me was because I have always seen the last Excel's a doctor with me, which, uh, three, three, three people sleep easier than before.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it becomes like four hours of sleeping for 12 days. It's very little. I've often
thought, is that part of the, there's a lot of things that are addictive about the race that are just so compelling. And part of it for me has been that headspace. I can't fly like that just normally. I would land. This is ridiculous. I'm not going to fly in 60K an hour training. That would be stupid. But in the race, you do it every day. Hey, over and over and over. And it's fun. And you got it. You've got those moves. You're going to pull it off. It's weird. It's just strange. It's an incredible headspace that you get in. And then the race is over and the headspace is gone. That's really amazing.
Yeah. In a way, during the race, you are a different person. You're a different person. Yeah.
So I want to finish on looking forward to this one. You and I had a good talk about this. After you won the X Red Rocks this year, you're going to go into it with a bit different approach.
Yeah. Like this time, I'm going to have two supporters, like Bruno and another Alpine guide, which is a good friend of Bruno and becomes a good friend of mine as well,
which is Federico. And they are both flying, but they are not like competition pilots. They are not cross country pilots. They are flying. Yeah. So the approach is basically that I will have to take all the decisions by myself with the idea behind of, yeah, like I'm flying 20 years and I have a lot of experience. And in every competition so far, I want to win. I managed to win. Yeah. Yeah. But I never do normally team competition where I have a team and I have someone which can actually help me a lot.
But maybe this, it brings me also a bit away from what I am and from my ideas. And it's when I had Andra and Eli, they give me like the perfect support you can wish. But maybe I don't need this. Mm-hmm. But I'm not. Sure. So on the Dolomiti Superfly, we tried. So basically, they support me on the ground. And once Bruno give me, I ask him, give me a takeoff somewhere there and he find something. But otherwise, I was taking my decision by myself. Everything, actually. But the difference is the Dolomiti Superfly was shorter.
And let's say a half of it. I know it because it's close to my home place. The X-Alps, three-fourth of it, I don't know. Yeah. So it's going to be different.
But I want to try. So, I mean, the other ways I already try. And this way, it's something new. So give me motivation to try different. Because otherwise, I will also run out of motivation, you know, if I don't change something. Yeah. So, yeah. That's. That's it. We'll see.
What a pleasure. Thanks, Aaron. That was a lot of fun. Let's go. Let's go to the awards and show our respects there. And thanks for sharing these stories, man. That was awesome. Thank you, Kevin.
Always a pleasure. All right, bud. Thanks.
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Bye.