Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. We're going to roll with these X-Alps stories for a while. The one with Chrigel was very well received and I'm such an X-Alps junkie, It's really fun to hear these stories and behind-the-scenes stuff that most people have never heard of, and trying to dig into each of the years with some of these athletes who have done it a a bunch of times and find out what what went on and how things went down—the good, the bad, and the ugly. And our guest this week is Tom de Dorlodot. Other than Toma, he's done it more than anyone; he's done it eight times, and he's in for this year, and it's ninth. So we go way back to 2007, and they've only been around since 2003, so he just missed the first three, and uh, find out about what what it was like when they used to use paper maps and had no tech and no GPS and much different communications.
And it was in a lot of ways much more of an adventure and not so much a race where the athletes would wait for one another and do it together and carry a lot more gear, and that didn't really change big time until Chrigel came onto the scene in 2009 and really started pushing the lightweight thing. So this is really fun to go back that far and listen to Tom's stories, and along the way as we go through each of his each of his races, we get into some really good advice that he has, and just some of the takeaways and some of the things he's seen, and the way he thinks about safety and how things are changing now that he has a couple kids. And yeah, I was fascinated to talk to him just to find out how he stays motivated to do these over and over and over again because it's quite a big thing, these campaigns.
Please reach out if you're digging these, let me know, and there's a whole bunch more people I can sit down with, but you know, X-Alps is very special to me, and if the general audience doesn't find these as intriguing, we can skip around and do some more normal shows too, but we've got a bunch of folks lined up for more of these. And if you like them, let us know. Appreciate it. So without further delay, please enjoy this Exalbs talk and this walk and fly down memory lane with Tom de Dorlodot. Cheers.
Tom, what a pleasure, man, to see you here. You're a lot more clean shaven than I am, but you're in your new place. And is it Fajal? Is that how you say it in the Azores? I visited there by boat many years ago.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we are now in Fajal. We just moved into our new house. Congratulations. Yeah, it's a pleasure to talk to you too, man.
Yeah, it's been a while, but I'm excited for your family and a new place. And are you both, I know you speak everything, but do you speak Portuguese as well? Is that just part of the repertoire?
Man, we are, yeah, we're learning to speak at the moment. It's still pretty basic, but we speak Spanish so we can kind of understand, you know, what they're saying. But the funny thing is that my son, Jack, is only—he's about to be four years old—and he goes to school. He's been going to school for two months and he already speaks Portuguese, so he's going to teach us. I think it's crazy when, when they're so small, they learn so fast. And um, but uh, yeah, we, we understand most of it and we have, uh, really good friends there also. I mean, the paragliding community, uh, in Diaz Horas has been super welcoming also. It's like you have a family everywhere every year you go, yeah. And um, being a pilot and so, um, yeah. And and there, there's a flying site, uh, 500, you know, 500 meters from my place, so I can take off there in the morning, fly on the east faces of the island, and then land, uh, in the, in the backyard.
So it's, it's beautiful, really enjoying it, yeah. And
Will you be there for the most part up until the race? Is that where you'll be doing most of your training? Or, I know you're heading off for the Alps, I think tomorrow, but is that something like that was more of a work trip? But is, is, is this where is this home kind of year-round? Yes.
This is going to be home, uh, year-round, I think. It's, uh, I mean, it's not the perfect place to train because, uh, it's still pretty small islands, and you know, the flying conditions are, are good. There's always a place to fly, but it's not like you can fly long distances or stuff. But, but in terms of physical training, this is perfect because, um, you know, there are trails everywhere. People do a lot of running and hiking there, so I can train. I can cross the island. You know, there's a trail every year called the Blue Trail, the Azores Blue Trail, where you can run distances up to 65 or 100k. So we have trails everywhere, so for just to go out and run, it's perfect. And the weather, it's pretty, pretty good all year round, you know? So it's never really cold, um, but I will for sure organize a few trips to, uh, to the Alps.
I'm planning also to sail to the Canary Island this, uh, this winter and train more in the Canaries, and then I'll go to the Alps for sure for some ski touring and mountaineering and flying, uh, because this is the place to be, I guess. Um, probably in, in May, uh, early May, I'll move there with my van and live in the van for like a month before the race. Yeah, I
I love the food there. I, as I'm hearing you talk about the Azores, I always think about the sardines—crazy about their sardines. Yeah, delicious. And it, and it's such a culture that's based around the ocean, which I also love. Most of our time was spent on Sao Miguel and where a lot of the pilots live. And what a community too. I mean, they have that big bash every August and it's a fantastic place. I'm jealous.
Yeah. And it kind of, it feels a little bit like Europe 30 years ago. Like it's, you know, everyone knows each other. It's a small community. In our, in our island, there's like 15,000 people, so everyone kind of knows each other and, um, and and so it's, it's really cool. Like, we made really good friends and there are, uh, local farmers. Everything grows on this island, you know? So we, we have a project of, uh, growing some, uh, some, some fruits and vegetables and stuff and, um, you go down to the sea, you can, you can go spearfishing or fishing, catch a fish, uh, you know, put it on the fire. Uh, the meat is great also because they, they have cows and they're grass-fed all year round and stuff. So it's, it's, um, yeah, quality of life, uh, being out in nature every day and, uh, close to the ocean and we thought that it was a good place for, for our kids, you know, basically.
So that's, that's pretty much why we moved there, um, and I, I still travel a lot, so I, um, it's a good place for me to come down and just, you know, land and sit back and, you know, just take some time for me to, to be with my family and quiet and, and yeah, so we, we really enjoy, I mean, uh, I'll be able to tell you more about it in a few months because I've only been there for, for, uh, just a few months, but I love it. It's beautiful. Yeah.
Uh, congratulations. That feels good to have a place. Um, well, Hey, we're going to take a walk down memory lane, Tom, with your ex house. We just did this with Chrigel last week, and I'm going to do this with, with more of you who have, uh, done a bunch of these races can sit down with Hansa next week and do this. So what I wanted to start with before we get into your, your first, which was 2007, no one's done it more except Toma. So, uh, you're, you're next in line with eight. This will be your ninth. I think I have that right. And, uh, but before we get into that 2007 race and, and hear your stories of, of each of your events, which I know is going to be taxing on your memory with having done eight of them. but I wanted to see, you know, usually this time of year is, you know, when I'm starting, I'm not doing this one, so I'm not doing it this year, but usually this time of year, I'm well into the training pretty hard.
And I've been just kind of thinking this year, you know, not doing it, um, how difficult it would be to motivate, to, you know, get that fit again. You know, I, I think some people like Chrigel and those, they just kind of stay fit because Cause they're doing so much hike and fly racing, but you know, you're spending a lot of time with your family and sailing and the search projects and a lot of other things. And so with the, with the race on the horizon and it being your ninth, do you have any trouble with getting ready or getting motivated? Do you worry about much going into it from the physical side or is it, you've done it so many times, you'll just, you know, you'll be ready.
I think it's a, it's a really good question. And it's, that's very interesting because I mean, everyone has, you know, has a different way to see to look at things, but um, for me it's like it's every two years, you know, and it, it feels like every two years I start to train again, um, you know, a year before the event, and then after the race I take some month off and I don't do anything, and it also helps my body to recover, you know, I never got injured like in training or anything like that, you know, and I don't feel like Like I still feel pretty fresh after so many years doing it. And I do think that it's also because I take a little bit of time to just do nothing. But I mean, professional athletes will tell you now it's better to train all the time and stuff. But I'm not sure about that.
You know, it's good to also disconnect and do other things or maybe focus more on the flying or go on other adventures and change your mindset a little bit and then come back and start to train again. But in terms of motivation, and it's difficult, I would say, of course, Some days you're are super motivated because the weather is great and you have a good friend to go train with, or so, so you're having a good time, you're in a good mood, you want to train, uh. But many days also you're not motivated and you just want to stay inside or do something else, and that's where discipline comes in and routine, you know, um. And with the years I've, I kind of understood how to work that out, like I, I need to just set a plan and also have people looking at my training, like have a professional trainer, um, and and work on my discipline and my routine.
It's like, okay, every day wake up, go for your run, do your uh meters, you know, go train, go flying, um, and and work on the routine and and so I organize my trainings with friends. I say, okay, on Wednesday I go cycling with this guy, on Thursday I go running with my wife, on Friday I do something else. I'm, I'm trying to keep, you know, busy and motivated. But having said that, you know, some of the races where I came the strongest physically and really well trained were maybe not my best races. So, you know, it's not only about being fit and strong and physically prepared and trained. It's also in your head and the strategy and your team. And it's so many things that you have to work on. So some, some athletes, I think, maybe focus too much on training, uh, when actually there's a lot more going on in those races, as you know.
And so, um, so we will see this year, I approach it a bit differently, I think. I, you know, you're, you're also, uh, you have, um, you know, also a daughter and, and you, you know, like, it's for me, I, I want to spend time with my family. I, I want to work on other projects, I want to do other things. You know, I'm not a monomaniac, I'm not 100 on Excel. You know, Excel is part of my life and part of my career, but this is, I'm not, I don't wake up in the morning only thinking about Excel, you know, even if I love the adventure and I love the whole, the whole thing and the race and stuff. So I'm going to be training and I'm going to push myself as much as I can because I love it, but, uh, but this is not for me the most important thing, if I should put it that, that's what this way means.
Yeah, how
The optics going into, you know, say, the 2023 race changed because of your family and and children compared to in the past. Has it has it just mellowed your view? Has it has it changed how you approach it? I mean, I know in the last race, you you're always, I think you you make very good decisions and you're you've always been more, I think, conservative than than some have with your eye on the long game. You know, if you if you get hurt, you make a bunch, you know, you don't have the long game, and so you know, in this last race, there was definitely a lot of really hairy weather and you chose to, you know, sit it out sometimes or walk down, or you know, it was just beyond your your comfort level from what I understand.
I was way behind you at that point, I was just, you know, getting the messages, but is that is that because of the family, or is that just who who you are? No,
I think there's two things. I think the first thing is that my approach to competition has changed. I like to, I like to compete, you know, because it's fun and I like the adventure and I like to be with my friends out there and I, I'm there for the adventure. But if I really think about it, like to just go there to try to beat someone and be the strongest somehow, I don't know, know why it doesn't make sense anymore, you know? I, I guess it's, it's an ego thing, which I understand and, and you know, people want to be the first and the fastest and the, it's cool. I mean, we all approach races with different, um, state of mind and, and mindset. But I used to be very competitive. I used to compete and I used to always compare myself to other pilots and I used to try to be the fastest and the highest and this and this.
But then now I realize, okay, well, it's great, but Does it really matter at the end of the day? And the answer to me, it's no, it doesn't really matter. I actually, I don't give a shit. And so this is the thing. It's interesting because I wake up in the morning in the middle of the race and I want to push myself and I want to have big flags and I want to enjoy my day and stuff. But I don't really care if I'm in front of someone or behind someone. One, you know, there's always going to be a winner, there's always going to be a loser, um, but does it really matter so much? And I think it's, it's, um, we have to think about this because the whole society works like this, you know, it's, it's all about competition, who's got the bigger car and the biggest house and the biggest whatever, um, does it really matter?
You know, what is it? Is it more important than, you know, have beautiful experiences or, you know, have a nice conversation with, with, with one of the other athletes or meet some people on the way or discover new areas or learn things about yourself? You know, so for me, it changed in a way in the last years, I cannot tell you exactly when, but, but I, I can feel that no, I'm not into, you know, this ego thing anymore of trying to be, you know, the best and the first and, and, and, maybe I was never built to be one of those guys, you know, know, um, so that's one thing. And the other thing is, for sure, the risk, um, it's dangerous, man, this race, and we've seen people doing crazy things, you know, and, and I've, I've seen it with my eyes, some guys almost kill themselves in front of me, you know, and, and they do, they do this and, and it's just to maybe gain one position in the ranking, um, and, and I'm like, why would you do that?
Like, why would you take off in the middle of a thunderstorm when you can just sit here and live another day? You know, and, and you'll have other days to fly and, you know, and it's a, so we've seen accidents, we've seen people getting hurt, but we also, we also have seen many very tricky and very shitty situation where they just saved themselves, you know, in the very last moment because they were lucky and because they have a lot of experience, obviously, but, but I'm like, Like, does it really, you know, is it really interesting or is it what we want to show to the world also and to the people who follow the race, you know, that we can just go and fly in any conditions and take risks and just don't give a shit about our lives, you know. And now that I have kids and I feel that I'm responsible for them and I want to be there for them, you know, when they grow.
And so I had my share, my fair share of accidents. You know, I broke my back once. They broke my foot. I had accidents during X-Alps. You know, so I've been through this. but now I think about it differently, and I just think, okay, risks management is important to me, I and you know last time I think maybe I could have gained a few places in the ranking, maybe get into the top 10 if I had risk more, but then okay, oh, I'm number eight instead of being number 11, great. And what? And I risked my life, so for me it's more about telling a good story and sharing, Sharing it with friends and learning things that I can share later on and, you know, just learn to be a better pilot and learn to be a safer pilot and also try to convey this message to the pilots who are following us.
Because a lot of people are looking up to the Red Bull athletes and to the Red Bull League Souths athletes. And we have a responsibility somehow to show the way and show that you can be, you know, you can do big flights, but you can do it safely. Uh, you can prepare yourself to do those flights, and that sometimes we should all leave our ego aside a little bit, you know, and just say, "Hey guys, take it easy. What matters is to have a good time." You know, let's forget about the kilometers a little bit, let's forget about the speed, you know, let's just enjoy flying, you know, um, and and and that's important, especially now in a world where it's all about social medias and, you know, the track and records and stuff. I think it's interesting to, so maybe step back a little bit and see it differently. But that's my point of view only.
And I'm happy to see that some guys like Aaron Kligel and the guys in front are really pushing. And their competitiveness is really inspiring everyone. I don't want to criticize anyone. I'm just saying that I'm in another place at this stage of my life, I think.
Sounds like a pretty good place. Well, let's go to a completely different place. Because this, uh, you've been at this a while. 2007, first, how old were you? And, and remind everybody of the route, because you, you didn't start that year where we start now, and, uh, certainly didn't end it where we end now. Uh, so take us back, and, and as I said before, the top of the show, what we'd love to hear is, you know, and this is gonna be taxing on your memory, but you know, a really high point, something that you remember that was just a beautiful experience, and maybe be the opposite of that, which often when you look back, the bad ones are, are high points too. You know, the mistakes are great things, but maybe something you remember from that race that, uh, it was, it was tough, yeah.
I mean, this, this was, um, uh, one of my, uh, yeah, one of the craziest, uh, moment of my, my paragliding career. Career was to take part in the first Red Bull X-Ups. It was in 2007, 2007, and I was, I just turned 21 years old, so I was, I was pretty young, um, and, uh, and I remember when I, when I subscribed, I thought, I'm just gonna subscribe and, you know, just to, to be there and to, to let them know that I exist and so maybe in two years they'll take me, you know, they'll, but I didn't really expect to be selected, to be honest, and so, but, but it was fine to me like, I, I was competing in, uh, in the Belgian championship. I was doing a nice flights and I, and I had a good level and stuff, but you know, it was, I had been looking, I'd been watching the DVDs of the 2003 and 2005, uh,
uh, you know, races and, and those guys were my heroes, you know, and I was super young. Um, so there I received an email one day, um, and saying, Hey, Tom, you're selected for the Red Bull League. So I was like, Whoa, okay. That's something. thing, and so I had, I had no sponsors at the time. I was, I was paying everything myself. I, um, I had a small company. I was doing, uh, I held photographies with with a paramotor and, uh, on Saturday morning I would go from door to door, knocking at the doors and say, "Hey, I took a photo of your house, would you like to buy it?" And that's how I was making like my pocket money, if I can say, and, um, and and so I, I raised a little bit of money with that, but I was on such a low budget, like I think, I think I did the whole race with 1,500 euros or something like that.
I was sleeping in my car. No, I didn't have a van. And it was a super small van, like a post office van, like the small one. So I had to sleep with the doors open in the back and I was getting wet every time it would rain. And my supporter, I kind of told my supporter, hey man, can you come and help me? Just have to bring me food once a day or something. The rest of the day, you can stay in the campsite, you can go to swimming pool, you do your thing, you know. I and so my supporter will say goodbye in the morning, and I, he would go and visit villages and towns, and he'd go on on his little cultural trip, you know. And in the evening, he would come back and give me food. So I, I remember, I remember being in the line at the supermarket to buy food.
I was, I was standing like I would make, I would be in the line to buy an ice cream in Italy and wait for 15 minutes so that it would be my turn to get my ice cream, you know, because I had no food. I lost 11 kilograms on that race in 10 days. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. You should see the photos. It's crazy. I remember Michel Ferrer took a photo of me, and I looked, like, so skinny. One day in Merano Valley, I almost blacked out because I didn't have food for so long. I was hiking in the fields, and my supporter was not coming. And so, um, but you have to think, I mean, we had no GPS's at the time, we had no smartphones, um, we had paper maps. We didn't know shit about the Alps, like we, we were really like trying to find our ways, but we would stop in villages and say, "Hey, how do we go to the top of that mountain?" and then maybe someone will take us.
I remember traveling a lot with Julian Weft, he was one of my best mates on this race, the French pilot, super talented, one of the best pilots in the world, and and we, and we one day we got lost in above, uh, I think above Bolzano, we got lost and we walked for like hours and hours and hours, like really the whole afternoon, and then at the end of the afternoon we came back almost to the point where we started five, five hours before, and it started raining. It started raining and we opened, um, an umbrella, and we had one umbrella for the two of us, so we were the two of us, two rebel athletes, like rebel exiles athletes, sitting just, you know, below the umbrella. And some days my supporter would, didn't find me in the evening, I had to knock on doors and sleep, you know, some locals ask, "Hey, can I sleep in your, in your house?" So that was, that was my first experience, but it went, it went really good.
Like, can you imagine that? The first day of the Rebel Exiles in 2007, because we didn't really know, we were not prepared. We had my supporter came with a McDonald's menu for in the evening and say, "Hey Tom, here I found this McDonald's, French fries, burger," and, uh, yeah, we, we were just so inexperienced. I mean, now I can say it, you know, it's, it's been 20 years almost, but I didn't have, I didn't have, um, at the time, I don't think I had enough experience to, to take a race like this. But it was, it was pretty much the sand for most of the field. I mean, those guys, like, I remember that year, the, the Russian guy came with a backpack that was, uh, around 20 kilograms, um, and I remember in showing his backpack to the race director, Steve Cox, and Steve said, "Okay, that, that's a good joke, but can you show me your flying gear?" Now, and the Russian said, "This is my flying gear, you know," like, and, and it was like, "No, but do you, do you have anything, uh, you know, like lighter?" And he had a Gradient SR7 that was maybe seven kilograms and a Woody Valley harness that was 12 or 13 kilograms.
He was 20 kilograms backpack, and his point was, his point was, "No, no, but I fly better with this, you know, high performance harness and a lot of weights or bigger glider." And it was, it was his, the way he was, you know, like there were people like that in 2007, you know? So, um, so it was a different game, it was a different race. We would fly with sleeping bags with a little gas stove to be able to cook in the mountains when we would land, um, you know, some, sometimes someone will sit on the mountain for one day without even moving, waiting for the next day to be better, to get better weather, you know? So it was a different approach. And then from there, it only went faster and faster and faster. But, but the race was, I was doing really well, I was in the top 10 for the whole race, so for being so young and, you know, so inexperienced, uh, it was good.
I didn't need to sleep much, you know, because at the time it was 24/7, so we didn't have, uh, to stop by night, um, and, and that was, that was crazy. But, um, and, but after the race you
started at the Dachstein, right? And then didn't you go down to the Marmolada? You went down to Italy, and then where?
Yeah, then I back up the switch man, I don't exactly remember, but but we had, yeah, I think at the time with like four turn points or something, it was so much easier. And some people would go south and some people would go north, and you, you would never see them, you know? Like, it was, it the distances between the athletes were huge. But yeah, we went to, we went to Marmolada. I remember flying with, uh, with Vincent Sprangly, uh, going to Marmolada. Vincent was flying a harness without back protection, like extremely light. And I remember when he prepared his, his thing, he also went to super and he took the smallest rescue parachute ever built, like X-X small, like extra extra small, that if he had to throw it, would have break his back for sure. He had no back protection.
And it's just when they ask, "Hey, do you have a rescue parachute?" "Yeah, it's here," and he was like, like really super small. And, um, and and we were all using like, uh, uncertified helmets, like we had bicycle helmets, you know, like extremely light that if you crash, you, you wouldn't be protected. Um, and and no one gave a shit about it. We were all flying prototypes and and gliders that didn't even exist on the market, you know? So it's, it's, it's good, it changed, you know? And now it's a lot safer, and you know, the organization, everything is a lot more, uh, organized. And but yeah, we went to Marmolada and I remember like the weather was, was crazy. We, we flew quite fast, uh, but still, it was taking a lot more days. We, I think that race lasted like 13 days or something.
Um, and and sadly I had an accident towards the end, like, uh, I was getting close to, to Mont Blanc and my glider, glider collapsed and I crashed. I was on full speed bar, very close to the ground, but the glider collapsed. I crashed and I broke my, uh, my hand. And, uh, I wanted to continue. I said to the organization, yeah, it's okay. You know, I have just put a cast in and I'm just going to continue, but they say, no, no, no, you cannot fly like this. Um, and it was good. It was a good decision because the next day I woke up and my back was blue and, um, it was good to, to go. So, um, and and from there I never stopped. I went 2009, 2011, 2013, 15, 17, 19, yeah, and you had all the races.
We'll get to these. You've had a couple other injuries with their X-ops related, but okay, so that was great. Start, Tom, I remember, I remember that was Nate's, that was Nate's first and only X-ops in 2007. His supporter was his, his wife, and their, I think, I think Ripley was two years old and, uh, uh, and Nate's dad, that was, they had, they had a camper van that they rented and the daughter hated Nate's dad. They didn't like each other at all. And, uh, and she would, you know, he would call her at some point, you know, sometime during the race and say, Hey, you know, can I, can you bring me a sandwich? And, and his wife would go, Nate, we're at the pool, you know, we we'll see you tonight.
And, and then every night to find him, she would have to call Red Bull headquarters quarters and find out where he was because they like you said because they didn't have gps or they didn't have the tracking yeah yeah just totally give the name
of a village and say, and say, "I am waiting at the church of this village," you know? And and of course, we had no, we had no extra batteries, you know? The phones were ran off, you know? And and I mean, it was good that other teams were around, and and it was a lot more, uh, I mean, it's still the case, I think teams are still helping each other a lot, but at the time, it was really like, you, you should, you, you needed to count to be able to count on on other teams, because if not, you would just die on the side of the road, you know? So the teams were would always stop and say, "Hey, do you need water? Do you need food?" and stuff, and but after a while, you wouldn't see anymore anyone, you know? Like, people would sit here and there and being lost, and it was, uh, it was a bit messy, um, but But very interesting.
Way more of an adventure than a race, it
seemed like, back then. I mean, it seemed a lot more... And, you
know, yeah. And at the time, I was really short on money, you know. And so, I remember when I talked to... It was my first sponsor, basically. I got a glider for free from Gradient. They say, hey, we want to support you. And so, I was like, okay, great. But I was just in between two sizes. And so I thought, well, you know, for the excels, because it's, it's um, I'm light, my harness is going to be light and stuff. I'm going to take, uh, you know, I should take a smaller glider, but for the rest of the year, it's better if I have the bigger size. So I just thought, okay, I'm just going to take the bigger size and and I'm just going to take ballast with me. And so here I was
Because you know, I couldn't afford to have two gliders. So, so here I was, I had a—I had those—those bags to, you know, like the shower, um, the showers that you use, you—you fill the bag like a black bag with water and it's a shower, like a camp shower. Basically, I had one of those in my harness, um, in my back when I was flying. And, and as I was losing so much weight during the race, you—you know, I had to put more and more water and, and still I felt really light. And so on the first day on the taking off on Dachstein, I was on top of the Dachstein and the wind was blowing super strong. And I'm like, I'm here. I need some ballast. So I'm starting to fill my, my harness with, with a little bit of water and then snow inside the bag.
And then a few stones, I put a few stones in my harness, which is really something you should never do. And then I took off and I, I started flying backwards because my glider was a bit too big, you know? And so I was looking down at Dachshund and I was thinking, okay, I'm, I'm gonna be the stupid pilot who flies backward above, above Dachshund because the wind is too strong and maybe gonna break my legs or something. So I pushed the, I pushed the speed bar as much as I could and slowly, slowly, slowly I started to cover distance, but it really took, it took ages to get out, you know? I was super high, but it took ages to escape from this place and, yeah, it was very scary and, and it was funny at the same time. And when I, when I arrived in, uh, at the end of the race, my glider was really way too big for me and for my weight, so I should have, for sure, I should go for the smaller size.
Isn't Tom... isn't that the one that, uh, isn't that the race that Vincent Sprungley? That was that amazing footage of him being launched with a rope. It was... that was that 2007, remember? On the text, it was really windy and somebody held, held him with a rope and he, you know, until he got away from him. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's... yeah, I think, I think it is. Yeah, he took off from the top. Yeah, we went down a little bit and took off a little bit lower, and I think, yeah, that's... that's what happened. Yeah, that was sketchy, man. If you... if you look at the footage of those years, first of all, like, the gliders were prototypes. They were... they were sketchy gliders, you know? Like, and um, and and those guys, they're just, uh, you know, on, on the edge all the time and pushing, pushing. Actually, I was there with when Vincent hit a cable. I think it was that year he was flying and he didn't see a cable; he hit the cable. Um, but yeah, Vincent was also a really good friend. I spent a lot of time with him. Um, and and you know, at the time, the life tracking system was not so, so good, you know? It was not... nothing like what we have today. And I remember one day we...
we went to sleep like somewhere near, near a village, and it was a quite a big wall just next to us. And then my mom calls me and says, "Hey, why do you sleep in the middle of the cemetery?" And actually, the life tracking was showing us right in the middle of the cemetery, you know? But like, a big one. So, why would you sleep there, you know? And it was... it was, but Vincent was a really nice traveling companion and a really good pilot, but he was taking a lot of risks. He was really cool. I can't
imagine flying that thing without Without any back protection or reserve? Nothing, yeah.
Okay, so 2000. He didn't even have a cocoon. He didn't have a cocoon. He had just a line, a paragliding line. And he was flying like that, super light, like no cocoon, nothing. And he was flying fast. He flew like flights of 180Ks, which at the time was something, really. Wow,
amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So 2009, uh, you go back for more. That was Chrigel's first year. I don't remember much from 2009 cause I was flying then, but the first one I really watched very closely was 2011. So tell us about 2009.
Yeah. 2009 was also extremely interesting because at the time still there were no limits. Um, you know, you could, you could run all night long. And, um, and so I had been In training, my sleep, you know, I could really go for 22 hours a day almost. Like I was sleeping three hours a day or something. I had only one supporter. It was at a time where we would only have one supporter in our teams, you know, everyone. No one had teams like what we have today. We have six, seven guys, two or three cars, you know. We would have one car and one supporter. and so my supporter was a really good friend but he was more tired than I was because I would never sleep and I had this technique, it was really funny we had a bit more like a bit more logistic with us and I had one of those two seconds tents, you know, like from Decathlon, the tent that you throw and it opens and so we had one of those tents in the car and when I would need to sleep, I would just
open it next to the road and just crash. And I remember I was following, uh, Andy Frutcher was the Italian, he was a strong guy, and I was following him and I was—I would fake, you know, in the evening, late at night, I would just throw the tent next to my car and there the Italian would come and drive nearby and see the tent and and they would say to the handy, "Hey, Andy, Tommy's went to sleep, you can stop." You know, because he was maybe one or two kilometers in in front of me, so Andy would stop, you know, and I would just kind of sneak around the tent and start walking again. So, but we would always wait for him to to set the tent, you know, and we would do that three or four times because, of course, someone will call him and say, "Hey, go again, Tommy's—Tommy's on his feet, Tommy's hiking again, you know, keep going." So he would—he would go again and we would do that like all night long, throwing the tent and just laughing at the Italians and until the moment moment where he would just, you know, crash and stop and say, okay, this is it.
And, um, but, but my, my, uh, strongest memory in 2009, and it's, this is one of the strongest memory I have from, from all the examples that I've took part in. It was with, um, Julian Wirtz. Um, we were near, um, Zermatt and actually I flew out of Zermatt the day before. So I was, I was already in the Valleys Valley, you know, in the big valley, and I was going towards Mont Blanc and I was in the 10th position and then Julien was, maybe I think he was like 30 kilometers in my back, you know, behind me, and the weather was horrible, so I was like, okay, this is it. I have the 10th position, no big deal, you know, this is good. Um, I'm happy to be in the top 10, that's it.
But then I don't know how we did it, but in the morning the sky was gray, you know, like it was almost raining, and he took off and flew 30ks. I don't know, like, don't ask me how he did it, but he did it. He flew in those really crappy conditions and landed two kilometers behind me, and there we were all super motivated to, to be, you know, I would, I wanted to keep the third position and he wanted to get into the top 10, so he started running after me and we are in the Valleys and it's flat and it's 100 kilometer of flats, basically, like maybe not 100, but I think into Martini it's like 50 or something, so we start going for 50k and we, and we run and we run we run and all day long, and at the end of the day, maybe around five o'clock in the afternoon, I call him because he's a good friend and I'm like, "Hey, Julia, how are you doing, man?" "Yeah, good." "And you?" "Yeah, yeah, good." We tried both kind of faking it, you know, like we were, we were all struck and, uh, both of us were super tired and I say, I, I try something and I say, "Hey, what do you think if we, you know, what about we stop for an hour, you know, at the same time we get some rest, we, we maybe we eat something, you know, we change shoes and suck, you know, and socks and whatever, you know, we take an hour and then we go again?" And he says, "Yeah, let me think about it, I call you back." So I'm like, okay, I think he's gonna accept, you know, it's a good deal.
We both stopped and, and we, and we, and we take a bit of rest, you know, and then he calls me back and say, "Hey, Tom, yeah, I'm gonna get you, man. I'm feeling, feeling strong, you know, I'm not gonna stop. You're, you're gonna, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna die." You know, it was really like, it was playing with me, but it was so fun. And then I started to say, "No, man, no, no, you're not gonna get me. I'm gonna run faster." But like we were both laughing at each other, but we were going right, and so we start running again and I was so exhausted that night that I fell asleep walking. I, I crashed on the road, like I fell to my face, you know, boom, I almost, almost broke my nose. But I kept on going. I kept on going all night long. And then we arrived above Martini on the call.
I think it's called the Fort La Paz or something. One of those. And I'm on top there. And it's 8 in the morning. And I'm like, shit, now I'm going to fly down. But he's going to be here at 9.30 when the first thermals come. And maybe he gets a lift and then he flies above me. But I cannot wait for him here. It was just the wrong timing for me. So, I fly down, I pack my things, and I start to run like crazy. And then I see him an hour later flying and getting close to me and catching up with me, you know. And I'm like, no, you know, in the very last moment. The race would stop at 10 or something because it was 24 hours or 48 hours after the first one. So, we had one hour left and he landed just maybe 500 meters behind me.
But my bag was packed and I was full on, you know. Know, it was my last breath, until my last breath. So I kept on running and running and running, and then he called me and he said, "Hey Tom, you got it," and he was—I remember he was crying, you know, he was crying, and he said, "Tom, you have this correlation, this is—you have the death position." And there, I don't know what happened, but my brain just shut off and I fell, um, on the side of the road and I couldn't stand up anymore. I couldn't walk. My supporter had to come and carry me to go all the way to Chamonix because I—I just had covered and we had covered 120 kilometers in one push, non-stop, with the backpack. So we were smashed. I think it's still the record now of the longest distance ever made in 24 hours in the exhaust because it was just non-stop.
I mean, no, it's not possible anymore, but and and and this is one of my strongest memory because you realize that your limits are way, way, you know, way behind what you think it is. Yeah, way behind. Yeah, that's super interesting about excels, but I—I couldn't walk for three days, I think, after that running so fast and, you know, with backpack and everything, but it was still one of my, uh, yeah, one of my strongest memory and and I went into the top 10 that year also, so it was good. I
Think, one of the greatest buzzes of the race for me has has been, and this has been in all of them at some point, is is you have these moments where you cannot believe what your body is doing. You cannot believe that it can keep going. And most of the time, you feel good doing it. You're okay. You know, you're just charging and charging and charging. And you think, God, how is this possible? It's a real buzz. I mean, there are times where it just hurts. but uh boy that's an addictive thing when you when it's just keep going it
is, and what's interesting is if you like only talking about sleep, for example, if you, if you sleep three hours a night for the next four days, and even if you do nothing and you stay at home sitting in your couch, you know you're going to be exhausted. But for whatever reason, you're in the x-hubs and you just go and wake up in the morning and you're fresh and you go for it and you just want to go for more, and it's, I think, there's the adrenaline, the kick, the love of adventure, the whole, the whole community is kind of carrying you also, you know, like, and pushing. But, um, but it's extremely interesting and, and I think it's, um, it's also because you've put so many hours, um, preparing, and it's a long process, and so your mind is prepared for this, and your, you know, you, you know what you're here for, and, but, uh, but, but this is interesting, this is really the x-ups difficult, difficult moments.
It's, it's something that I always use during my, you know, when I go through difficult times, even during the day, you know, whatever happens, I always think about those moments like, okay, remember the time that you hiked 120k with, with your back, or remember the day you, you cover, you did 6000 meter positive, or, you know, those kind of days that we think we were not able to do those things, but we, we are, and we all are. That's, that's the interesting part is that we can, can all do this, everyone can do it, training and preparing and, and, you know, putting the energy into that, and so, yeah, the limits are way beyond what we think, and that's very interesting, and that's what the exiles showed us, and, and, and also if you look at the history of exiles, because we're going down memory lane now, it's, it's interesting to see that the whole sport also has evolved.
We, if you tell me in 2007 that you can cover all these things in eight days, you know, a few four years later, I would say, "Ah man, impossible." And now we're covering more distance, a lot more, because in 2007 it was 800 kilometers, um, now we are 1200 kilometers or something, it's just crazy, and we're doing it faster. So, uh, it's, uh, yeah, it's quite incredible the
level of professionalism, I mean, even from my first, which was 2015, which we're not even two yet with you and and now it's... It's remarkable how much faster everything, you know, like you're talking about the logistics and the apps. I mean, we've got apps to handle everything that you didn't have in 2007, you know, for everything, for our supporters to know where we are and to communicate. And I mean, we've got everything at our fingertips and, but all the teams are using it and it's, it's remarkable how fast it has gotten. That's amazing. I always say, in 2015, you could make big mistakes and still totally be in the game. You could make moves and it just seems like that window evaporates a little bit more with every race.
Mistakes just cost and it's pretty hard to get it back.
Yeah, I can give you an example. In 2009, I was supposed to fly... I was getting into a valley and I was supposed to fly left, and I went right. So I was flying in the wrong direction, really, like for at least three or four kilometers. And then I... I got a message on my phone, you know, saying, "Hey Tom, um, why, why are you flying this direction?" And I was sure I was, you know, I was going the right way, but... but it was just not, and, and you're so tired. And at the time we didn't have those apps and we were just on paper maps, paper maps. I was, as I was just saying, it was the first Garmin GPS with, you know, very basic maps. And so we were trying to figure it out, but it was really the beginning. Now you have everything on your iPhone and, and it's incredible.
And as you say, the communication system, I mean, even things like WhatsApp to send your position on the moment, or to communicate it with your team, or you know, all the different apps that we use, it's, it's a game changer for sure. Yeah, that's a lot more, a lot more easier, even like, uh, yeah, if you, if you need to find a food or whatever for the team, I mean, you know, um, but, but what's been interesting in, in those years, is that also no one knew about X-Alps, you know, you would, we were going through towns and no one would ever come and see you, you know, no one knew like, what is he doing with his backpack, you know, and And now, everywhere you go, there are some locals that want to hike with you or show you the way or fly with you or bring you some food and stuff.
We get a lot more help from the locals than we used to get before we didn't get any help. No one knew about X-Hubs. Now, I mean, there's a high chance if you go into a village somewhere in Austria and say, hey, I'm doing the X-Hubs, I'm pretty sure that someone will open it. They'll have your picture on their phone
as you walk up. Yeah, exactly.
market yeah okay
2011, you were, uh, is Toma ran that one? Pretty much. He was, he was second, I think. Only two people got in Chrigel, and then Toma, and the weather was awful. That was, that was a tough year, wasn't it?
Yeah, the weather was was really horrible, a lot of rain, um, and, uh, I, I was starting to get good at hiking all day long, you know? I, I had a, I was, we were starting to also understand how to train physically better, so every, all the athletes were getting stronger and, and getting closer to, to what Coconia was, was doing to what Toma was, was doing at the time, um, we would hike all day in the rain, so that was, that was really hard. Yeah, I remember that, that year, and, um, what I remember also, it was, um, it was interesting because, um, at the end of the race, I think that you're my brother was my supporter, um, and he didn't know anything about paragliding, like he had never heard of paragliding, we, he was about to get married, and we thought, well, this is, this is a cool experience, this is something we should do once in our life, you know?
Do it together as brothers, and, and so let's do it together, and, uh, but, but I remember like we even to open my glider on the ground, you know, on top of the mountain, you couldn't do it, like it would, it would do it upside down, and, you know, because you didn't know anything about flying, so that was, that was, was interesting, um, but yeah, we, we had a really, a really good race, um, the, the end of the race was really hard for me, I remember because we were flying with, uh, with Clement Latour, and we were quite in good position, I think we were five and six, or something like that, or seven, um, and we arrived in Baltimore, um, and the clouds were covering the top of the mountain, uh, the ridge, and so we couldn't cross to the other side and fly down on the other valley where, where everyone was like all the other pilots fairly, and all those guys, they were just down there, so we landed on top, and I decided to land on top and start to hike, and, um, guys, like I think it was Honza was, was way behind us in the morning, but he decided to go through a national park, uh, and we as because Clement is French, and, and I know many French pilots and stuff, we said we have to go around the national park, at the time it was not forbidden by the race, but it was still, you know, a little bit down the edge, and he was forbidden by the authorities, and I don't know on that took the risk and flew above us, and, and got into the top 10, um, and then Clement took off and flew into the clouds, um, and then I was there, and I was like, I just don't want to fly into the clouds, and so I was sitting there and couldn't fly, and then the wind got too strong to fly down, and then it was the race, the end of the race, so there I was 11th instead of 10th, Onza just flew over me a minute before the end, like it was really two minutes before the end of the race, so he got into the top 10, like the very last moment, and, and for me at the time, I was still on low budget, so I was really trying to be into the top 10, because it would help to get a little bit of money to pay for the race, and, uh, so it was, it was that those years, you know, and, and then I had to walk down 2000 meters, and it was the race was done, it was finished, but I had no other way to go down, so I walked three hours more, when everyone was celebrating and stuff, it was really hard, but, um, but an amazing experience, and on the first night, I, I went into it was, I landed near the Dachstein, and, um, and on the first night, my brother couldn't find me, he couldn't find me, and he was, I think 11, 11 p.m.
or something, and he couldn't find me, he couldn't find me, all the, the access Taxes were closed and stuff. So I just went to a house and I knocked at the door and some drunk guys opened and they were like three or four guys, like hunters, I think. And they were totally wasted and they start to sing and, you know, like, okay, this is not going to work. Thank you. They gave me a little bit of food, but then I found a place to crash and I slept basically in my glider, you know, on the side of the road and wait for the next day to go to Dachstein and really, really difficult ones, um, but one of the thing that I my best memory for sure, um, in this race was when we arrived next to, um, it was close to the Marmolada, I think.
The Dolomites were still, it was still a turn point in, in Italy, and, um, I was with, uh, Michael Gebert, I think. No, I'm sure I was with Michael, and we were a big group of people, like between number six to twelve or something. We were all together, um, on the takeoff in the morning, and we were on the good timing. The takeoff was beautiful stuff, and then I looked at Michael, and we, we were looking at the Trecime, you know, those three big pillars, you know, those mountains, and we were like, "Wow, that would be a dream to take off there, you know, but you, you have to hike maybe an hour more, but that would be something, man, to take off on the, on the foot of those mountains." So we start looking at it, and And I was like, let's go, man. Let's just go. So we kind of discreetly, you know, we didn't say anything to the others.
We kind of disappeared. And we started to hike fast. And we arrived at the foot of those pillars. And it was funny because we were both sponsored by Volkswagen, by Gradient, and by Peak Performance at the time. So we were, like, dressed exactly the same. Like, we had the same logos on our gliders. We had the same gliders. We had the same clothes. It was funny. And um, we even looked the same little bit, so we were there and we're like, "Okay, let's go now." And we took off and we got so lucky because the the rest of the group was in the shadow and they couldn't get out, and we took off and we went like skyrocket into like to cloud base directly. We flew above the trecime, the view was amazing, and then we we flew away and we left them maybe 80, 80 kilometers behind.
At the end of the day, we were number five, maybe number five and six or something, so we were really good position. Just because, you know, for the beauty of the of it, you know, just because we wanted to to see this pre-chimia from above, it was—I really loved that because we decided to do it not for—we could have just stayed with the other saying, "Hey, we're a big group, we'll play all together and stuff," but we didn't. It was not even a better takeoff, or at feast it didn't look like, but it's just we wanted to do that, and the experience was amazing, like soaring on those big pillars and then fly out, and we landed in Balzano, I think this this evening. And then we we got out and the next day we were way in front of the others, so that that was a good, yeah.
do you when you're kind of reminiscing and thinking back on these does it does it make you you think of a, a headspace or a place you, you have found mentally that really works in this race? I mean, it seems like more, um, you know, I know one of my failings in the race has often been that I'm trying too hard. You know, I, I, I forget to be a hike and fly pilot and I, and I think too much about course line, but I just, you know, I get in this mode where I, I, I almost, I almost forget that I know what I'm doing.
In other words, I'm not in the zone. I'm not in flow. I'm fighting it instead of just letting it go and letting it work out.
Yeah, this is very interesting because that's what I've learned from Ferdi. Ferdi van Schelven is one of my best friends. He's this kind of pilot who takes his own decisions and he does his own thing. and he works on intuition and instinct and some way it's kind of magical, but you know, it takes decisions and it works, and he does things differently and it works, and you always look at him like, how did you pull that out, you know? And it just doesn't follow the crowd, you know? And and so I, I used to be a follower, like I used to kind of look at the French guys that I knew, better I would in my first race for, for sure, in 2007 and 2009, I would just look at nationalities. I would say, "Hey, we're in Italy, let's look at what Andy Frutcher is doing," you know?
We are in France, let's look at what the French guys, or we are in Germany or in Austria, I would always do like that because they knew someone who knew someone. The paragliding schools were around, you know, helping and stuff, so even some of the guys, I remember Andy Frutcher once even stopped his life tracking in the morning so that we couldn't see his secret takeoff, you know? So they would do things like that. I mean, he knows, he knows, I know, and we know he knows, and so but, uh, but, but it was, it was this kind of of things, you know? So but, but then I've learned from Ferdi, um, that we, it's always better to take your own decision, and if you make a mistake, that's your own mistake, you know? And that's your problem, and you cannot find any excuses, and I feel better like this too now, and and so now I just, I try to do my own thing, you know, and take my own lines and decide for myself.
And even though, even with that mindset, I can see that sometimes I get influenced and most of the time it's by my team and your team, you know, they are on the ground and they want you to be fast and they think they have a better idea, which is sometimes it's true, but sometimes you should just do your thing, you know, and by doing your thing, you learn, maybe you make a few mistakes, But then you improve, and then you can come back stronger, and then you can always reflect on it. And so now, this is the way I see it: I, I just work on, I try to get in the zone, as you say, I try to get in the flow state. Um, and I, and I try to listen. And one of my strategy now is, I always say, "If you want to be fast, you have to go slow." Is we have to think a little bit more, you know? Sometimes you want to rush into a new move, next move, you know, you're like, "Okay, let's, let's not lose time, let's go, let's go, let's go." But if you take five minutes of your time to just sit, you know, and really think about what is the best option, and you know, measure a little bit what the pros and cons, and then it makes a difference.
And at the end of the day, those five little minutes that you've lost just thinking a little bit better about the next move, it makes all difference, for sure. You know, it's interesting to hear you say that. I used to go influence too fast, yeah.
it's interesting to to hear you say it's often influenced by your, by your team. I, you know, we just had Aaron Durogati out here for the X Red Rocks and after the, he just dominated, he was incredibly strong. And after the race, he and I got to spend quite a bit of time just chatting and he, he, he's had a big year and he did the huge flights in Pakistan as you did. We haven't even talked about that, but he, you know, he had a big, big year in Pakistan and he's had some really nice results. And he was saying that, you know, for him, the X-Alps has really never gone that well. Now for most people, it would be very well. He's, you know, he was sixth and seventh and I mean, he, but, but he hasn't won and, you know, he's very competitive.
And he was saying that he feels like that one of the reasons is that he's He's always had people on the, on his team who have been pilots and he, this year, he's going to have a team with no pilots. He, he want, you know, he'll have a mountain guide. He'll have strong people and he'll have the supporters that he needs. But, um, he, he wants to make, he just wants to be uninfluenced by others and not that they're not, that it's even a bad influence. He just feels like he performs better if, if the decision-making is all his. Is, and it's interesting to hear, you know, and it makes sense for me to even contemplate an xops without a pilot on my team, but it, it does make sense.
I, I, I like that philosophy, and that, you know, it
Does make sense? We all know what we're doing, and not only, yeah, yeah. And then there, there are, you know, pilots and pilots. I, I have, you know, some pilots in my team for next year, but, but they know, they know what they know. And they, you know, the problem is, you know, we, we've been through this. You know, we, we know exactly what it is and what it feels like. And, and sometimes people would say, "Yeah, you should go," because they're so excited, but it's dangerous, or it's windy, or it's not as good, or, or maybe you should just wait five minutes because it's going to get better. And, I, I really try to, you know, really, um, rely on my intuition. Um, intuition, it's, it's not some sort of magic, you know? It's based on your experience. It's all the experience that you gather through the years.
And then when you get into a certain situation, you have that feeling, that gut feeling, that says, "Hey, this is a good situation, you've been through this before," you know? Or the other way around, you have a bad intuition because you've been through this situation and, it's last time, it didn't end well. So it's experience, it's based on experience. And maybe I would think that you, you're the most experienced in your team because you're there and you're the athletes and, and you've been through those races before. And so I think to rely on someone who maybe has been flying for three or four years, he's super motivated, he's got lots of ideas and stuff, but maybe he doesn't have the key for the next move and you shouldn't pay too much attention to him. And I've done it many times. In 2007, I remember this guy who told me, hey, I'm the local champion.
I've been flying in this area for many years. I'm going to show you a takeoff. I flew a 120-kilometer triangle from here. You're going to love it, blah, blah, blah. He took me to this place. I hiked for one hour following this guy thinking he knows everything. He's probably the guy to follow. And then I arrived on the worst takeoff I had ever seen. The wind was from the side. It was impossible to take off. They surrounded by threes. And then I looked at this guy and I thought, well, I don't know him. I've never heard of him. I don't know who he is. Maybe it's just a friend of another athlete and he's telling me stories, you know, who knows? I mean, I, I would think that that's not the case, but, but you know, who knows? You know, and, and here you are, you've been training for it for two years and you're there, and you follow the first guy who comes with a good idea.
This is ridiculous. This, this was my mistake for sure, you know? And it happened to me many times. Those guys that say, "Hey, I know the way to the takeoff," and then they get lost on the way. Like, "Do you really know where you're going?" "Yeah, yeah, I've been here before." And then you take twice as much time as the other one who's following you. So it's something that I, I think you should trust yourself first and then trust your team, but take your own decisions always. And I think for Aaron, this is for sure. This is a, this is true. And I think also I've talked to Aaron a lot about this because we were quite close friends and, and it's also like the pressure because he's won everything, you know, he's, he's, he's one of the top pilots out there, probably top five pilots in the world for sure. And, uh, and Aaron is, as you know, it's got a lot of pressure.
He wants to do well in this race. You know, and uh, and and when he takes things easy, like, like he goes to to other races without too much pressure and doing a thing and stuff, need to pass this um, and and he takes the right decisions, um, and I think he's going to do well this year. I'm quite confident; like, Aaron is one of the favorites for this year, I
Haven't seen him this physically strong. He's always strong, but he's, yeah, he's, uh, I think he's in the right headspace going into this one. It'll be, it'll be fun to to watch him, which reminds me of 2013. So that was, you know, you guys had banner weather in 2013. Chrigel finished in six days, even had a tailwind, which is unheard of in the ex Alps, uh, for the first, you know, all the way to Mont Blanc, there was kind of a light easterly. I don't know if you remember that, but, uh, I wasn't in the race at this point. I was completely addicted to it. And I remember watching you guys the first day, you know, from the Geisberg up to to the Dachstein and flying down the pins gal, and I mean, I think Chrigel almost made it to Laramos that day, or maybe he did, uh, but it was, and it was, it was him and Aaron going, you know, they were, they were battling out front because they're both, you know, big time comp pilots, and they were, they were going real fast.
But, uh, yeah, tell us about 2013 and in your experience, because the weather was incredible, yeah.
2013 was was incredible. It was an amazing year, um, for me it was a complicated year because I went into the race with a C glider, uh, it actually happened to me two times, no, three times in the race. So that, that's interesting. I mean, I was flying with Gradient, as you know, and it was my sponsor and I was doing lots of other adventures with them. It was, it was a beautiful brand, they had good gliders and stuff, but they didn't like the timing was always wrong, like it didn't work out, like they would have a new D glider, but then we use it for one exhaust and then maybe the second another exhaust and then I arrived in 2013 and we didn't have a glider ready, um, and so the new C glider was almost performing as well. It was the Aspen at the time, but still you couldn't keep up with the other guys, impossible.
You know, it was the first, uh, I think it was the year where the M5 came up or something, so Ozone had a really good glider and, um, so for me it was very frustrating because you're there, you are with some of the best pilots in the world flying a sea glider with you're really limited, uh, with wind and performances and stuff. I remember that on the day we took off with Kegel, actually I think it was on the second day we took off from Dachstein together and when I landed I was three kilometer behind him and I had to go around the hill to, to go and so I was not on takeoff with him that day and I couldn't keep up. So it was, it was hard, but at the same time I had a really good time and one of my best memory of this race because we were flying, we were still flying 100k every day, really covering distance, um, and, and that's the first time after 2007, 2009 and 2011, that's the first time that I passed Mont Blanc and I started to get really close to Monaco, um, and, uh, and on the very last day it was incredible because I was into, I think I don't remember exactly where, I think I was 12 or 11 or it doesn't matter, but, but we were fighting with the Polish guy, um, I don't remember his name anymore, um, Pavel, yeah, Pavel, and yeah, it's such a nice guy and so it was the last two hours of the race and he was going to be flying, so we, we climbed to the takeoff and took off and, um, he was, he arrived flying, he took, he went on another takeoff and he basically, uh, joined me flying and I knew he had a better glider than mine.
I, I had no, like, if he just stay with me he would win because at the end it just has to speed to push the speed bar, it just had to speed to push the speed bar and he would just leave me behind. So, so I knew that and he knew it also. So my only technique was I, I needed to find a way to, you know, get lost and try to leave him behind. So in one of those, I remember it was a beautiful mountain near Gap, not far from, from Gap and, um, it was very, like, it was a very sharp, uh, edge and I was flying turning into a thermal there and then I would kind of play hide and seek with him, you know, like I would go behind the, the go behind the thing and then come back and every time I would come back I could see he was watching me, you know, and he was turning, turning into his own thermal but only 200 meters away, like he was, he was in control, for sure he was in control and I was turning and hiding and then appearing again, hiding, appearing again and then one of a sudden I saw, okay, now he thinks that I'm gonna stay here and try to, you know, climb in this, in this smooth thermal, then I push the speed bar full on and I get super close to the wall and I start racing and when he realized that was already like maybe one kilometer in front, so I'm there in front and there's like maybe 15 minutes left or something, so I'm like, okay, I need to, I need to climb now and so I get another thermal and he follows me and he's catching up, of course, I mean his glider is flying way better than mine, he's catching up, catching up and then I see the time, there's five minutes left, uh, I'm one minute, one thousand meter high, I say, okay, now it's speed bar towards the goal, like towards Monaco, so I push full speed bar, I put my arms inside my harness and I'm like, okay, now we will see what happens and then he comes and gets closer and closer and closer and to be honest with you I think we were just side by side at the end of the race, like we were together, I could even, I think even, even, even flew be in front of me, but because the life tracking had two minutes, uh, delay, you know, I was showed 10 meters in front of, of him at the end of the race and so I got the position in front of him, yeah.
yeah yeah
we were like just next to each other at the very last second of the race, like we were together, and so we did a ground spiral together, we did a spiral together like glider against glider. We landed, and I jumped into his arms, and we started like laughing, you know what a finish it was? Amazing. We were, we were like super happy, and it didn't really matter like who was first or second, it was... It's just we had played this beautiful game for the last two hours and a half. We had really pushed ourselves. And flying at the end is so much better than being running on the road. And I remember Dimitri, no, it was Evony, the Russian guy. He was running on the road. We flew over him like 10 minutes before the end also. So we all passed him. But yeah, it was amazing. And then we celebrated.
And I think at the end, I was maybe 12 and he was 13 or 13 and 14. I don't know. doesn't matter, but but um, that was a really cool finish. We we we party really hard, that's amazing. I've never been that
Just made me think, I've never been in the air at the end of the race, yeah? But I've been on the ground. Or my first one, I was in Monaco, which was awesome. But the... but the other ones, I've always been on the ground. That'd be cool to be in the air at the end of the race and racing. That'd be awesome. Not even in the
last race in, in the last race I was in the air also during the race, yeah I
had just landed. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Yeah, that was—that was—that was neat. It was a neat end for, for us last time. But no, I had just landed. Oh, wow, that'd be really cool. Okay, so 2015, that was cool because we
Knew, but we, we were both, yeah, 2015, yeah. That's also an interesting year. That was your first time, right? Yeah.
That was my first. You've already done four at this point, uh, and you're still much younger than I am, but
you did really well on on your your race is there. I remember you did amazingly well.
2015 was good. Yeah. That was, you know, I, I, I'd like to have that headspace back cause I know I'm a better pilot, you know, over all these years, but you know, like we were talking about earlier, I think it helped a lot going in being completely ignorant, you know, having no idea. I literally had no idea if I was just going to be eliminated or if I could do it. I had never been an endurance athlete, but you know, so I was, I was going in with a lot of trepidation, which allowed me to be, I think, just do stuff and have fun, which worked a lot better. But there was a lot of wind. Your buddy, we saw a lot of dropouts that year. Michael Gebhardt and Toma got really hurt. You got hurt. It was a pretty radical race.
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was a radical race, and it was mentally quite difficult. And I remember you just talked about Michael Gabartou who dropped out of the race. I was there with him that day and we took off together and conditions were super bad. And again, we were both playing sea gliders. So we were quite limited in wind, you know, like when you have to push the speed bar on a sea glider, they just get stuck, you know. And so it was hard. And on one of those flights, it was very turbulent and we were flying together with Michael. And one of a sudden, I don't know why, you know, he just turned around and went to land. But he went back like maybe 10 kilometers to land in a town down there in the valley.
And I knew at that moment, I kind of felt that he was stopping the race. You know, he actually told me in the morning, yeah, I don't know why, but I don't embrace the conditions anymore. I don't feel like this is safe for me anymore. More and, um, and so I was like, "Yeah, well, you should just listen to, to what you feel and just stop," or maybe take a day off and think about it. And, and so it is, he stopped the race and I kept on going. And, um, and I was, I was catching up with the group. Um, I made a few good moves and one morning I was with Ferdi van Schelven, um, in Belinzona, in the area of Belinzona, and we were number seven, I think so, together. And, and we do really well when we fly as a team, so we were like excited.
We're like, "Okay, this is now, this is the moment for us to, to try to perform as a team," because we've been on many adventures together and know each other really well. And we were super motivated to try to keep going together during the race and we arrived on the takeoff and it was a super sketchy takeoff, very steep. Uh, it was no wind, a little bit of breeze coming up, almost nothing. And what we do with 30, when we get into those places, we, we do, uh, rock paper scissors, you know, to see who's going to take off first. And so we did rock paper scissors and he said, "Okay, I'm gonna go first," um, because he knew I could help him, you know, I could, I could hold his glider and stuff. So he went down into the face a little bit and I was holding his glider and he took off perfectly. He had a bit of breeze, he took off really nice and went away.
And, um, and so I prepared and I got everything ready and because I had seen his takeoff, I thought, "Wow, this, this is going to be easy, it looks good." Um, but I inflated my glider and for whatever reason it kind of stayed, you know, it didn't really carry me. I couldn't feel the pressure, but I felt like, "Okay, well, this is super steep, I'm just going to give two steps and it is, it will start to fly." But it didn't. I, I gave two steps and the glider kind of stayed in behind and, and kind of stole, like, entered into a deep hips tall and so I hit the rock maybe four meter below and I tumbled above the rock and then the glider got tangled into the stones or whatever. I don't know what exactly what happened, but I fell for 30 meters and my glider got tangled into rocks, half of my lines on the right side broke and the other half, hopefully, uh, old, and I went back to the wall like with my foot in front at full speed and boom, hit the wall super hard and broke my foot.
And then I was sitting on a super small edge, maybe 30 centimeter edge, sitting there with, with one, you know, like out seated and looking down and I had 200 or 250 meters of steep places like, uh, yeah, I, I should, that, that I think that was just the worst accident I ever had. I mean, I only broke my foot, which was, was nothing, but in regards of what happened, I should have died that day. My helmet was broken into, I, I hit the rock with my, with my helmet, the helmet was smashed and, um, and the crazy thing and, and that it's, it's quite, uh, quite crazy. And, and when I tell the story, people don't believe it, but I pushed the, the button on my InReach, you know, and I was one of those guys who really insisted at the time that everyone should have an InReach and I pushed on the SOS button on the InReach and so the, you know, they, they called my family because they get a message and they called my mom and they called my team.
They said, "Hey, Tom pushed on his button, what do you think we should do?" You know, we are the crisis, uh, team and for whatever reason my supporter this time, you know, said to them, "Oh, he's probably okay, he was flying with his friend Ferdy. Ferdy is still flying, Tom should be, be okay." So I pushed a second time and then my mom received the message again and she felt that something was wrong, so she called Tarquin Cooper because she had a number, his number, and she called the organization and she said, "Guys, my son pushed twice on the button, he's a professional athlete, you know, he knows what he's doing. I don't, I don't think it's just pushed on the button by misty, you should, you should send someone." And so three hours later the helicopter came with something that could have taken five minutes, you know, like, uh, they knew and they were just next door, they just thought that they wanted to think that everything was fine, so they just didn't check, which was crazy.
So, so that was a big mistake and in in it and that that was my mistake. I should have briefed my team and say, "Guys, if I push the button, just just send someone, you know, just don't even think about it." And you know, my supporter had maybe a three hours of sleep night before, and he was was exhausted and probably just didn't think properly and and also because what happened and that was hard for Ferdi is Ferdi actually flew away and never never saw me coming out of that that takeoff, and he kind of felt like "Okay, maybe he didn't take off," or he kind of, you know, yeah, I don't know what happened exactly in his head but he didn't know. But but but at the same time we were so close like and so in the evening I went to see him and I said, "Hey Ferdi, that's okay," because he he was crying, he was like, "I feel so sorry, you could have died," and I I was not even there to check and I didn't even fly back, you know, 500 meters to just see if everything was okay and I was like, "This is fine, this is a race, you know, this is okay." But but he felt so bad, that was really a hard moment for him.
Um and and he wanted to quit the race the next day because he just felt so bad about this and and I I understood. I was like, "Man, we are all exhausted and we we just we are in in another place, you know, and we we just um we don't know how to deal with all this, so it's it's too much to take." But but that evening Ferdi landed in fifth position and uh I think together we could have done also a really nice flight so but yeah, I was super scared and and that's where you see the that was a scary moment and that's where you see the experience of those guys with the helicopters and the abs, you know, they just came, they dropped someone on a on the the line, you know, he sat next to me, and then we took the glider, or what what was left of the glider, and then they put me a harness, and then they took me out and flew me to the hospital in Bellinzona, and uh, and there I was for a few days to recover.
so that was difficult year but um yeah, that's how you learn, that was a kind
place to you no
and and that's and that's the funny part pardon the story, it's that a year before I broke my back in Belinzona. And actually that's the same helicopter that came to get me and they brought me into the same hospital. And so they brought me into the same hospital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And at the time I was sponsored by Salomon. So I was dressed with Salomon stuff, you know, I was with my Red Bull helmets and with my hiking poles and my paraglider, and I came a year later, exactly, you know, dressed pretty much the same, in the same hospital again, for a paragliding accident. But on the first accident, I broke my back and I stayed for like a week there, you know, so everyone knew me and they called me the Iron Man because I had a paragliding crash, but I was still kind of okay.
And so when I came there, like, "Hey, the Iron Man is back," and I was like, "Oh, come on guys, no jokes please." And uh, so I, I knew everyone. I knew all nurses by, by their names and stuff. It's a small hospital, you know? So yeah, it was, it was the accident happened five kilometers away from the accident I had a year before. So it was, I, I had three difficult years because I had, I broke my back during the Adriatic Circle with Paul Bauer, where we went all around the Adriatic Sea. We covered 3,000 kilometers hiking and flying, and I broke my back there. And then it took a while to recover, and then we came back in spring to finish the Adriatic Circle. It was really good training for X-ups. And then I came to X-ups, and then I broke my foot.
So I went again into the whole surgery and the whole thing. And then I recovered. I started to go on expeditions again. And then I had a climbing accident, and I lost a part of my finger with a big, massive stone that fell on me. So it was like three years in a row where I had accidents. You know, I don't know if you've seen that before, but yeah, I didn't know that a missing finger, yeah, yeah, I
was i
was climbing with, um, I was climbing with, uh, you, you know him, with, you know, he's just one of the people at door, he's a Patagonia athlete, and Nicolas, and, uh, and we were climbing together, opening a new, a new line, and I'm, I'm not a good climber, like I just, I was following them and, uh, just enjoying my time in the mountains, but I had a, a bad feeling that morning, and I told them, "Hey, I don't have a really good feeling about this." And then, yeah, I was going after them and, basically, I don't know exactly what happened, but I, I tried to, you know, go over a big, big stone, big boulder, and the whole thing disconnected from the world and fell on me. It was as big as a fridge, so I almost got smashed and, um, yeah, yeah, and they just passed there a minute before, so they, they got lucky too, and I got lucky because I would, would have been below, um, and, and a minute before I took a friend, you know, one of those, uh, thing that they put into the cracks, I took it out of that stone.
But imagine if the whole thing went off with it inside, we would just have, we would, we wouldn't be there to tell the story. So it was the third year in a row that I had an accident, and there I felt, you know, I have to think about the way I, I approach risk and, and how I manage it, you know, and, and that was very interesting because, because then I went to spend some time at the APC. So Red Bull has, you might know, we have an athlete performance center called the APC. And it's a super cool place where athletes can go and train and get advices and stuff. And we have mental coaches, we have psychologists, we have doctors, you know, trainers and everything. And so I went there and I said, guys, I need to think about the way I approach risk.
And I need some tools. You know, I need to, I need to see things differently, and it was very interesting, but I think we talked about it before, maybe in the podcast last time, but it was the way you can manage risk and the way you can approach it, and he gave me a little thing that I would like to share with the pilots out there, like out there, because it's interesting. He said, when you, when you get into a situation, let's say you're getting on a takeoff in the morning, you know, there's three things you should check. One is how you feel, like, is it a good day? You know, did, did you, did you have your coffee this morning? Did you have a good night? Um, is everything okay at, at home? You know, it's kind of in your relations, uh, you know, mental check. How do you feel? Do you feel good?
Then, then the other one is the, the, the location check, like, it's, it's like, where am I? You know, and what, what, what are, are the conditions? Oh, the sky is dark, maybe it's windy, it's coming from the side to take off his teeth, you know, it can be anything, or it's beautiful and it's great and it looks like an amazing day. And, and, and what about your gear? You know, okay, I'm flying a new glider, or I'm flying a glider that I know, you know, like, let's say the surrounding, everything that surrounds us, that's the second thing that you have to check. And then the third thing is the mission. What did I come for? You know, know I came here to take off, okay? Well, and, and then what to fly? Long distance, okay? Am I prepared? Do I have enough food? Do you have all my instruments charged and stuff? And, and so by only doing this, you can see if some red lights pops up, you know, like if, oh, well, I'm actually tired, or I just, you know, my, my, my wife just left me, which I hope is never gonna be the case, but
But, uh, but you know, and or, or I've never flown this ladder, or the wind is coming from the side, but it's just, it's just a check. It takes five minutes, but it, it gives you, you know, it can, it, you can position yourself, you know, in, in the reality, and you can look around and say, "Okay, well, maybe this is not a good day, or maybe I just should take my expectations, or my mission, lower, lowered my goals today," you know, because maybe I'm tired. And, and by only doing this, it gives me a lot more, um, clarity, if I can say, you know, yeah. And it's, it's super easy, it's pretty basic. You might even think, you know, but most people don't do this, you know, they arrive on takeoff and they're just on, they get on their routine and let's take off and they hurry.
And, um, I think that's a very, very powerful tool, and, and, and it helps me to connect with my intuition, you know, it helps me to just take that moment to think and say, "Okay, how do I feel about this?" you know, and, and if, if the intuition says, hey, Tom, be extra careful, then I'm just going to be extra careful.
Yeah, I mean, I think setting an environment for our brains to adapt, you know, if you make that kind of sequence a habit, you know, you can, your brain, like you said, intuition, it's not magic. It is our collective experiences that we call our gut feeling, you know, and our gut feeling. is something we need to get really good at listening to because it's not, like you said, it's not wacky. It's a combination of fear and all those things that we need to stay alive. And I think when you have that, I like that, that you've created kind of a mental framework for you to kind of jump in, assess things real quick.
How do I feel? How does the sky look? Look, how do things look? And and what am I here to do? And it's, you know, sometimes that answer is, yeah, you can walk down, which is a good thing, exactly.
And it's, and it's just about tuning in with with yourself, you know? Like, be tuned and and listen to your inner voices and stuff, you know? And um, and and we do, when in paragliding, we we do a lot of like, you go to paragliding school and people won't tell you about these things, you know? They'll tell you about how to take off and how to land and this and that, but they won't tell you about just, let's just sit down and look at what what it is and what's happening, and you know, and you can avoid so many mistakes. And it happened many times that in the past where I took off and then you're in the air and then, oh, oh, the wind is quite strong, like I should have realized before taking off, you know? That's that's not how it should work. So it's like, okay, we have a lot of experience, so we get ourselves into uh tricky conditions and we can save ourselves, basically, you know?
We can, we can manage, um, but but it but still, maybe you get into the red zone, you don't even notice, you know? And and you do that a few times and then it's all about statistics. One day you're gonna get hurt, you know? Um, so I I think that's very interesting to say, okay? You know, just let's take a little bit of time and to reflect What's you know, and not to reflect, but to analyze what's happening around us and and just try to understand and tune in with conditions and stuff. And I do that also. At the end of a flight, I I try to take two minutes after landing because most of the time you land and then you're just happy, you want to have a fresh beer and stuff. But I I pack and then I sit down for a minute and I like, okay, how was it? Uh, what did I like? What I what I didn't like? Um, was it a close call, or did I feel safe all the way?
Maybe I should have do things differently. And I tried to just do it while I'm still in it, you know? Because if you if you wait for a few days and you forget about your experience, or you just get into a next flight and and maybe you cannot get the most out of it. So, uh, it's a mind game at the end of the day, you know? And people tend to forget about this, but it's it's just a mind game, the whole thing. Good.
Advice, I love it. Tom, uh, 2017, I remember a lot of bad weather in 2017. We, uh, you and I were, we were pretty close to each other in that race for a long ways, as I recall. Um, and, uh, we had the Garda turn point, which was tough. And, but yeah, I remember, I remember a lot of big weather, a lot of storms. But, um, that was the tree glob. That's, that's right. It was that, that was the tree glob. Here I saw the scariest flying I'd ever seen in my life. Day two, we were, I had pulled my night pass inextricably. That was a huge mistake and walked all night. And I had gotten up to that, that pass that was heading, you know, the heading down into Austria the next morning and turned around and saw Paul and Gaspard and Benoit and others fly out of that Canyon and really strong North Fern conditions.
And I actually called Jorgen, the safety director, and said, you better get the helicopter out here. Somebody's going down. It was the sketchiest flying I'd ever seen in my life. And that was when Chrigel pulled that yet again, another incredibly magic move and got all the way down to Triglav and got out that night. That was amazing to see. But yeah, I remember that. Tell us about 2017. Remember the first day? No, no one flew. I mean, that was a first in the X-Alps, and there wasn't—it wasn't. We got up to the top of the Geisberg and it was dumping rain, so we all just walked off it. We
ran down, ran down, right? I
remember that that
was horrible. Yeah, I remember that. Man, 2017 was for me one of the worst, um, but at the same time, it was very interesting. It was one of the worst because I was doing quite okay, but then, then I got a penalty time. Um, and, and there was a mistake that, um, I
mean, I was,
uh, yeah. So what happened is that I don't remember exactly. I do remember, but, um, every morning I would have, I would get a briefing from my team, you know, and they would give me the forbidden areas at the time. We didn't have so many, I should have, to be honest, it's my mistake. I should have known every area. Like now, I study every forbidden area on the way and try to to know all of them, but it's difficult, as you know. And and there's there's so many and um, and that day, we in the morning, we analyzed Chrigel's track and we thought, "Oh, this is interesting, what he did there around this mountain. I would have go straight, why is that?" But we didn't, we didn't see it. And we had this Google Earth app, and it was a forbidden area, but the color was really dark and we didn't see it, and I didn't see it, my team didn't see it.
And so it was not in my briefing, and every day I would receive a little piece of paper from my team with all the forbidden areas, "Be careful with this and that." And so I was flying and I hear the the vario beeping like doing this alarm thing, but I'm like, "Oh, I must be close to something." But there is no forbidden areas because I haven't seen it and it's not in my briefing, and I flew into it only by I think five meters, and it was a it was a zone, a military zone where the guys, the military, they train once a month, they do shooting exercises or something, so it's forbidden, but it's not like I was into a big airspace or you know you
weren't hitting CTR or something, one of
Those weird causing trouble, yeah, yeah, no, in in traffic, like nothing like that. But, but anyway, I went into it and the rule was really clear at the time. It was 48 hours penalty, so that was really hard to take because I was, was doing well. I was, I was in the top 10, I think, or and then I got, I got a call from, from the race director and said, "Hey Tom, I'm sorry, but you're gonna get 48 hours penalty." So I knew that at the end of those 48 hours I was going to be fat last, which happened actually. I, I took two days off, which was great. I mean, you're in, I had four days of racing or five days and then I took two days off. So we, we went into a small village, we put a camp, like we were, we bought some food and I slept a lot and I rested and, and there was nothing I could do, you know?
And then, uh, one other guy had also a penalty, so we, we, it was, uh, Evany and he also had the penalty, went into the same forbidden area than me, so we were both into that situation and we were, we were last. So we started to push ourselves like as much as we could and we got lucky because one guy got hurt in front and he decided not to get out of the race. He kind of said, "Hey guys, I'm hurt, but I'm just going to sit here so you can pass in front of me." It was a Spanish, um, if and so you, you're not going to be disqualified. So at the time it was Evany in the back, so I was kind of safe. But then we, and for the rest of the race, we kind of, we were fighting to avoid, uh, being the last and being, you know, cut off the race.
So, so it was, it was really hard for me, but I could build some distance and, and cover some distance and I, I could save myself. But, uh, so at the end of the race, I was, uh, just one before last or something like that, but I was still in the race, which was, became my new, my new goal basically after I got dependent to time, but, but it's, it was hard. It's hard to like to race again in a race where, you know, you can do anything. You're not going to get to the end, which was my dream. You know, um, you're not going to do anything. The the ranking is going to be pretty bad, so you really have to to not, you know, just go home. It's hard, um, but but I couldn't go home like I should. You know, you have to do things with style and and just, uh, play it fair play, you know, as we can say.
So I just say, okay, well, this is what it is. And I, my team said, sorry, I said, okay, this is how. There's nothing we can do about it and and we kept on pushing quite hard and I was really tired at the end of that race because we really pushed and and that's where you realize that actually, because we we think about, we look at the ranking and we think, well, those guys in the back, they must be lazy. But that's really not the case. I mean, you push as much as you push in the front and the back, you know, it's, uh, uh, it's, it's crazy how fast actually it goes in the back. But sometimes you have a a little bit of bad luck, bad weather, you get into the last group and and and then you have to fight for your life and that's so intense. I would, I would prefer a hundred time being somewhere in the middle so you don't have all that pressure of being cut off the race.
You know, that's super hard to be. I had never
experienced that until my last race you know that was a series series of weird weird things happen to us the first two, three days in the, in the last race where I'd always had pretty good starts and it, you know, it was uncomfortable and I never had to think about, I've never had to think about elimination or had to deal with that until this last one. And, and, uh, I was on the chopping block for the first four, I think for at least the first three eliminations. And, um, you're like you said, it's, it's a totally different kind of racing. It's very stressful. And Nick Mainens, who had always done well, he and I were battling it out. And a couple others that were, you know, really covering ground well. And it was, you know, I just kept thinking, there's no way I'm going to get eliminated from this race.
I just got to keep doing my thing. But it was, it was really neck and neck. And then we had some bad, you know, some, some things happened that were kind of out of our control, you know, people ahead that would just quit instead of, you know, just riding it out, you know, which isn't really the philosophy of the race. And, and it was, uh, yeah, it was just, it was always intense. It was intense for quite a while. And then, you know, finally broke free of it, you know, day seven or day eight or something, but yeah, it's a
different kind of place to be. It's
scary. scary yeah
And it's, it's, it's scary and it's intense, and you tend to take more risks too, you know, because you, you kind of, you have that pressure, that extra pressure, and uh, I hated it and and, but you know, for us, that we, we know what's, what, what the race is all about, and I've seen some of the best pilots in the back, like Martin Muller one year was really almost last, and we all thought, and then the next day he flew 150k and came back into top 3, and I think he finished the race in the top, so it can change so fast, but we all know that if you have a little bit of bad luck or one wrong decision, or on the other way, if you're lucky and you make a good move
it can change the whole race and sometimes you're 5 minutes late in the evening and you just cannot fly down down into the valley, and then you lose half a day. And that happens all the time. And it's hard. It's hard to take it and to just accept it and say, okay, well, tomorrow it's going to be another day and we'll try to give our best. For me, in the last race, it felt like I was always off timing. I would arrive when the wind was getting strong and then I would catch up with the guys and then boom, it was whatever, for whatever reason, couldn't go. Or I would arrive late in the evening on a high mountain pass and not being able to lie down and have to hike down on the house at night. So it felt like it was just off timing all the time. But that's how it is, I guess.
That's how the race works. For me, 2017 was really hard, but 2019 was probably one of my best years. I was going to say, we go to 2019, we get to see
you come alive. That was your year. It was, you know, you know, all the, all these years of just slipping out of the top 10 and they're just not making Monaco and, and 2019 was, was your year, man, you were strong that year. It just charging you in the top 10 race.
I, yeah, but I have to be like, if I'm totally honest with you, it's, um, it's not that I was not prepared, um, the races before, but I, I didn't take it so seriously. Like, and I was flying sea gliders some years and it was like, but 2019 I really decided to change, you know, the way I was doing things. I prepared with a different, like, I took a team that were like really a lot more professional, if I can say, you know, we were before. It was just like, okay, let's go on a cool adventure, let's push and let's try to do something. But, but my approach in 2019 was, I could say for the first time, really more professional and I, my goal was to get to Monaco and I was really into it and I trained like hell that year. I flew a lot, I studied the route and so, and I got a bit lucky, um, you know, in the flights and the flying parts and, and it was a very interesting year because until three days before the end I thought, well, if I want to make it I need to fly 120k per day minimum.
I think I had to cover 150 a day, straight, straight lines. It was, it was, I thought I was not going to make it, you know, um, and especially when I arrived in Monte Viso, that was really hard. That day I make it to Monte Viso and I do, I enter into the turn point and out and then I'm flying out and I'm going and I received a message, uh, from a friend and from the organization and they say, "Tom, you, you didn't make the turn point." And I'm like, like, "What? Yeah, well, you just didn't, didn't, didn't get into the cylinder, you have to go back." And so I'm, I'm there soaring on a high, like, on a mountain not far from there, like maybe three or four kilometers, but I, but the clouds are getting dark and I'm like, if I'm going back I'm not going to be able to get out and, like, "Are you sure?" "Yeah, yeah, yeah." So I land and I called the organization, I said, "Guys, are you really sure?" And, uh, we talk and I lose like almost half an hour and I see pilots flying above me and, um, and then I, uh, I look at the, the fly master and he didn't have coverage.
My fly master didn't get the sim card, was not working. So what was happening is at the time when your fly master was not working, your InReach was doing the points, but of course your InReach was doing a point every 10 minutes, so that point was out of the cylinder. And then I decided to trust myself and think, well, when the fly master will get coverage, he will send the points and they, they would see that I was in, you know, fuck it. I'm going south. I took off again, but I had lost an hour and a half almost. It was crazy. So I flew out and, and, and I landed at the bottom of the Valley. When everyone landed 20 games in front, they were in a much better position for the next day. It was really hard for me. And so I landed there. And then we realized that I did do the turn point.
I, it was in, you know, Clearly, in so I was like, "Oh man, I should have just gone." That wouldn't happen anymore because we have double instruments and we check everything so well and stuff, but I started to doubt. You know, you get a call from the organization, they say, "Tom, you didn't make it. You have to fly back." You're like, "Okay." Well, you trust him. So anyway, not trying to find excuses, but but that evening I thought, "I'm not gonna make it to Monaco. This is ruined. Uh, this is too far. I only have 24 hours left. This is, this is too much." I had to fly 160k the next day and, um, and the conditions were not even great, you know? But then the next day I got lucky, the weather improved, I flew well, and, uh, and I was, you know, really super motivated, um, and I, and I entered into, uh, yeah, Monaco the next day.
What was interesting is that I arrived flying, and I had a big thunderstorm in my back, and I had a conversions, and I was flying like everything was going up, and then I saw the other guys just in front of me like the top five between I think it was six, seven, eight, and nine. They were all just, just there. I could see them, um, and I could reach them. I could go and, and go with them, but I thought, "I'm not going to make a difference if I go with them." You know, they're in front, they'll stay in front, and we're going to be running one after the other, so I'm just going to try another line. And it didn't work. I, I just went down, didn't do much, and when I landed I looked at my GPS and I saw 75 kilometer to hike to get to the turn point and I start counting hours and I'm like, "Okay, I have my night pass.
Okay, at an average of seven kilometer per hour I will do it." But I had to keep that average, so I started running and I ran for 10 hours and I arrived at one hour before the end, end of the race. Oh my god, that was very special.
Holy, yeah, I really
had to push like the whole night, the whole night after such a long race, but I knew I was gonna make it. Like, I was, I was already celebrating, like I knew, okay, 10 hours, 75k, or I have to... it was 12 hours, 75k, so I had to average seven, around seven per hour, 7k per hour. And and I knew I could do it, like, you know, running and hiking really fast, and it was downhill quite a lot at the beginning, so I was really fast and and then... but then it was up and down and up and down, and I was like pushing, pushing, but I knew I, I, you know, I had wings, you know, I... it was, I had been waiting for that moment, uh, all my life, you know? So for me, it was, uh, I'm just gonna go for it. It was very emotional. Like, I, I remember when I arrived on top, uh, I cried, you know, so happy to be there with my team and, uh, to to see Monaco from from that point of view and, uh, yeah, to make it to Monaco and being...
I was, I think it was 10th or something, or nine, I think. Yeah, yeah. But, um, it was, it was beautiful, really cool experience. And that day, Coconut flew into the thunderstorm. Stomach, Coconut flew into the storm, Strand, I was just telling you about, and he had to escape, and so he went north. He flew up to 5,000 meters and then he escaped and he went back north and flew back for the cave and landed somewhere that was... That was pretty heavy. But yeah, beautiful race. I really enjoyed it. And I think it was hard also in the same time because I was always between six, seven. I was really seven, eight into the race. And I thought maybe I could do something, maybe being six or seven or eight. But I was just happy to make it to Monaco. And that was good enough for me.
And in 2021, we got the big, huge change of not going to Monaco anymore, more, which I personally was thrilled about. I didn't like Monaco very much, but I did kind of feel for the rookies going into it because it's, it's something to get there. It's a, it's special to go to the sea, but totally different race and, you know, kind of an out and back around Mont Blanc. And, uh, you and I didn't spend any time together. Like I said, I was, I was fighting at the back in the beginning and really had a tough few days to start off with, the start off with the race, but my weather experience with the race was, was frequently terrifying, and I'd love to hear your, your perspective and, and how the race went for you, because as in 2019, you were, you were crushing it, you were really doing well, yeah.
What was very interesting for me is that, um, for the first time, I had an amazing glider, you know, uh, in 2021. So in 2019, I was playing with, with, um, the Wild from Super, but it was already four years old, the glider. So I flew it in 2017 also, and it was a good glider in 2017, but in 2019 it was already quite, uh, behind the others. And but in 2021, I had, um, an Advance, an Omega. It was the same glider as Chrigel was flying, and, uh, it was a great ladder. Like, for the first time, I could really feel speed and performance, and, and I could feel that I was, you know, fighting with the others on the same, you know, like if you go to a Formula One race with the same car as the first ones, you know, it's super.
It was very motivating for me. I mean, everyone had good gliders at this stage, but, but still, it was a, it was really good for me to, to have one of those, and, um, and so I was extra motivated. I had been flying quite a lot, and in terms of training, I put a lot of hours. Like, physically, I was, I was very strong. I think I actually have the record that no one wants to have. I am the, the athlete who walked, who hiked the most in, in 2021. I hiked, I think, 600. And, yeah, yeah, I, it, I had it three times in my short career, um, the, the record of the guy who hikes the most. But, um, but, uh, at this time, I think I hiked 650k. And I didn't even use my, uh, my night pass, you know?
I didn't use my night pass, and I was still like 40k in front of the second one, something. So it was too much hiking, but, but I, I felt okay. But, but, uh, but like you, I, um, um, my, my little daughter was, was very young. Um, it felt really important to come back home in, in one piece. I, I approached race differently for that race, and I always said to my partners and also my sponsors, I remember the guys at Advents saying, "Hey, Tom, Tom, you know, just don't go over it, you know? Like, take, take your, take it easy, no pressure, do your thing, you know? But we want to see you in, in one piece at the end, and just take it easy." And so that was, that was great. And, and, um, from the beginning of the, the race, like on the first day, I was great because it was my birthday, actually.
And so, um, we, I celebrated my birthday at the start of the race. And that day, I had a really good flight and I, one of my best memory, but that's very personal and that doesn't mean anything, but was at some stage we were in front with Perdi and with Chrigel and some other ones. I mean, everyone was around, but we were in the very front, um, near Dachstein. And, uh, and I just kind of decided to leave the place because we were in a super shitty side. I didn't like it. And I was like, okay, I'm not going to risk it. Uh, fuck this. You know, just if you want to fly in the lee side, just do your thing, but I'm going, you know, I'm leaving. So I start flying away, and I'm first with Ferdi together, and I find a term along the way, very smooth, but I, I get it, and I start turning, and there comes Kiggle because he sees me going up, and we go glider against glider into this super small and cheap thermal, and I don't know how, but, but he kind of loses it, and I get it.
And so here I am like really putting distance between, between Kegel and I, you know, I'm really like building big, big difference. Like, and I get to cloud base and he's 500 meters below. I'm like, Whoa. And then my phone is sending me WhatsApps. Yeah. Everyone is like, happy birthday, Tom. You just left the Kegel, the Eagle into, you know, like you left him there. And it was, it was pure luck, as you know. Like, I, I got, I got into the bubble and I got lucky. It was pure luck. It doesn't mean anything, of course, we all know that. But, but for me, it was like, it was my birthday. It was the start of the race. I had a really good feeling and it gave me a lot of confidence. I, I kind of felt, now you can just believe in yourself, you know? You just, you just did this.
And, um, it was interesting. And, and then we kept on going. But, uh, that evening, and then after we flew down to, uh, to the turn point, and, and for whatever reason, my glide was not so good. The wind was a bit shaky and, and so I landed. And then I didn't have time to make it to the pass and fly down the other side. So I went all around. And then the next day, I made a small mistake and that was very interesting. Actually, on the second day, I made a mistake that was, that cost me a lot, actually. Um, I, I arrived on a really good take. I was with, um, with, uh, Ferdi, uh, I mean, Ferdi was following me and, uh, and Laurie was with me and I'm with Laurie and I arrive on a really nice takeoff. It's beautiful, it's nice and stuff. And, but then I look at the next hill, I'm like, well, maybe it's, you know, I still have half an hour to kill because it's, it's too early to take off.
I just have time to go to the next hill. And Laurie says, I'm gonna stay here, you know? It's good enough. It's a good takeoff. And for whatever reason, I, I, I walk and I hike to the next hill and I sit there and I see it's getting, you know, good. And then I see Lori and Ferdi taking off because they had breeze and their spot was probably better. But I didn't have anything coming up and my takeoff was, was bad and I took off and I couldn't climb and I landed at the bottom and I saw those two guys flying above me just because I wanted to, you know, cover alpha kilometer more. It was ridiculous, you know? But I, I thought, okay, this is going to be, it's on the same ridge. This is going to be good anyway. Just, I have time to kill. I'm just going to walk a little bit more.
I just wanted to. And then they flew above me and they disappeared. So I ran up to the takeoff again and I took off, but I was an hour late. And then I thought like, I gave, I gave all I had. Like I flew as fast as I could and I flew quite well. And I caught up with, uh, with Perdi and Laurie. I got up with Maxime Pinault and we flew with Max and Ferdi all the way to the lake and back. And so there we were in a super good position. And actually in the evening, we glided down and we left Max behind. We took a wrong decision and we kind of left him behind. So we're like, okay, now I was with Ferdi, one of my best friends. Max Pinault was behind. We're like, okay, we just left Max Pinault behind. This is it.
And so we were pretty confident. But then I made a few mistakes the day after and built some distance between me and the rest of the teams. And then it was really hard to catch up. And I was always playing catch up, catch up, catch up and trying to catch up. And it just didn't work as I wanted to. But I had some amazing flights and I really enjoyed it. But the timing always felt wrong. We arrived at Mont Blanc, the wind was blowing like hell. All those guys flew the day before all around it. We arrived, we had to hike everything. thing, and then it was four days of hiking, and there I took the right decisions, you know? When, when we were in Monterosa, in the southeast of Monterosa, the wind was blowing super hard, like really strong, and I said, "You know what? I'm just gonna take it easy." And um, Steve Bramfitt, uh, no, first he was the, uh, yeah, Steve, Steve said, "Hey Tom, are you sure you don't go to take off?" And I'm like, "No man, it's too strong.
I can see that the trees are going like crazy and stuff." And he took off, and he broke his knee that day, um, and he was quite seriously injured. And then, uh, he was the German, um... I'm really bad at with names, right? I know it's no, it's um, it's uh, ah, maybe I don't know, like really nice guys. I feel so bad about not knowing his name anymore, but anyway, and he, he also landed that had a crash and broke his hand and um, on the same day, and I, and I felt like this is it, you know? I took the right decision not to fly, and those two guys are out of the race now, so it was just, I was gaining positions by only being super safe and just wait for, basically, for the others to crash, which is not a good thing to do, but um, they, they got in serious trouble and they, yeah, and and then the next day I flew 150k back into the group.
I was really close to, to, to the guys in front, but But, yeah, it was too hard. And it was really nice. The last day of the race, and for me, that was one of the most beautiful finishes. I will end with this. I knew about a mountain hat because I had been there with my brother years ago in 2011. And so I knew about that mountain hat not far from the lake area. And so I flew 150K that day. And when I landed at the bottom, I remembered, okay, there is this hat up there. I still thought I could do it on time to go to the pass and fly down. But when I arrived on top, it was too late. It was almost nine o'clock and I couldn't go. So I walked down to the, to the mountain hut and I knocked at the door and the woman opened the door and I just said, do you remember me?
And she said, yes, I do. Thomas, right? It's crazy. And so I was like, yeah, yeah. Well, she was following the X-sides. So I think she, she kind of looked at the life tracking, but she remembered that we We were there with my brother in 2011. And so she prepared a big piece of meat. It was nine. I decided to stop racing that day because it was no point of hiking down. It was like I would have hiked all night to just come to the point where I would have land next morning. So it was no point doing that. So I just sat there, had a beautiful steak, enjoyed my evening, sat next to the fire, read a book. It was the last day. I read a book. I went to sleep at 9 30, and and I had a full night. In the morning, I woke up at 7. I had a real breakfast; I walked half an hour to a really nice takeoff.
I waited half the morning for the wind to come up. The guys were in the back, but they, it was hard for them to catch up, you know? And they were quite far. And then I took off, and I flew the last three hours of the race, just enjoying smooth conditions, no wind, beautiful terminals, and kind of making peace with the whole situation, you know? Like, okay, I didn't have the race I wanted to have, but here I am. I enjoyed my last evening. I'm rested. I'm having beautiful conditions. I'm going to land next to my team. I'm in one piece. I was happy. I was super happy. And then I landed after the race next to the man. And that's the thing. It's like that's kind of the moments that I missed from the previous six outs. At the time, I remember we would sometimes, all of us, we would be sitting inside a mountain hut, you know, like maybe 10 pilots of the X-Hubs, you know.
On the first days, we were always, and we would share, you know, stories and, okay, let's go to sleep and tomorrow is another day. But now there's a lot more pressure. People want to go faster. Everyone's pushing. You know, I'm going to tell you a story that I, it's so funny. Like we were, I think it was in 2000, 2009. I think we were in a mountain hut, and we—it was early in the morning, it was like eight in the morning or something, and everyone gathered there. It was Alex Hofer, uh, myself, Martin Miller, we were like a group of, of pilots, maybe the top six, seven, everyone was there. It was the second day, and, uh, and then we were all having a apple soft, you know, it's like this apple juice, sparkling apple juice with big glasses, and, uh, and then comes the, the Colombian guy, um, and he comes inside the hut and looks at everyone, and he—you could feel, he felt a little bit uncomfortable, didn't really know what to do and stuff, and he goes to the, to the bar and orders a beer because, because he felt that we were all drinking beers, you know?
And so he comes with his beer and sit at the table and put his beer on the table like if it was normal, like, like if, if every one of us were drinking beer at, at eight in the morning, you know? And then we all start laughing and we're like, "Ah, this is so good." Everyone laughs, and everyone was super chill about it, but it was like, you could tell this guy came from South America, you know, and he just wanted to, you know, to be part of the whole thing, but he didn't really know how to act on it. It was so funny, and so he had a bit of beer and we all kind of shared some, and then we went off, we took off again and left. And, but, um, yeah, this is those, those moments I, I cherish the most, you know, with the, the feeling that you, the friends you make on the way, you know, the people you spend time with, the other athletes, you, you spend time with, you go through very difficult times together, you support each other, um, you take care of each other.
When you see someone going into a cloud, you try to, and, and I really love the spirit, and I think it's still there, and I think it's, it's our responsibility also to keep it alive, you know, to, to keep this spirit alive and to help each other and to share information and stuff. And I know you are in this team too. Like we've always been sharing everything we know and then the best will win, you know. This is how I see things, you know. We share everything and all the information is out there and then the best will win, you know. But not everyone thinks like that, you know. I've had some experiences. And
it's okay, you know. For the most part, though, you're right. Right. And I, you know, the hardest, one of the hardest decisions about not doing it was just missing out on that, you know, as someone who's done the race, you know, we, we know that there's, there's a whole lot of special things, right. There's a lot of things that go and it's the training and the team. And, you know, for me, it's the, the, the places that you get, uh, both mentally and physically that you, you would never get just touring the Alps and flying. You, you, You get to these very special places that are, you know, for me are going to be really hard to miss, but, but a lot of it is just the, the camaraderie and the, the getting to know people like you and, and, and all the other teams and athletes.
And it's a, you know, it's, it's a very intense 12 days that leaves its mark. And, you know, a lot of my, I don't know, trepidation with not doing it because it was a hard decision to not do another one. You know, there's all the obvious stuff that, you know, the training and the time and the money and all the things that, you know, are always tough. But a lot of it's just missing you guys, you know, just not being a part of something so special. Ferdie's quite inspirational to me because he took 2019, I believe, off. Was it 2019 or 2017? I can't remember. But he always does well. But he took the year off and then he came back. And I'm kind of hoping that he'll come back because he's not doing this one too.
I'm hoping he'll come back again. We hope you will come back.
We will hope you will come back. I'm thinking about it. Yeah, you should. You should. You know the kid. Yeah, he will be back. I'm sure. I mean, this is the cool thing about it. It's like you can always come back.
Yeah. No, it's a really special family. You know, I'm excited, so excited to watch you guys throw down again. And Tom, thanks for sharing these wonderful stories. My face is tired. I've been smiling so hard. But I appreciate it. No, thank you for
having me, man. I can see the time running. I'm like, okay, we talk too much. It's been, it's been, uh, it's because I, I cannot stop talking. I'm sorry, but um, it's been a blast. Thank you so much for, for having me and, and for spreading the, the word and, you know, like sharing with those, with everyone else. I think it's always good to, to share our, our knowledge and, and the cool thing, it's that links out to always be there. I think that there's a young generation coming behind us, you know, with, with really like, uh, super motivated athletes and really professional approaches and stuff, and we will see a lot more of, you know, those cool adventures and, and also there are new races like, uh, like DX Rocks and races like, you know, new events and, you know, appearing here and there, and that's, that's so cool to see that the whole world of, of, uh,
bv flying and uh you know racing and it's uh yeah it's really booming at the moment Yeah, it's really taken the sport to a wonderful
place. You know, it's exciting to kind of, I think of it as kind of the new frontier, but it's super exciting. It's been really exciting to watch you over the years and man, stick with it. I'm glad you're in it again. And thanks, Tom. I appreciate it.
Thank you so much. And we talk very soon then. All the best to you.
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I do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors; we get asked about that pretty frequently, but I, for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show, I don't want to do that. I, I don't like having that stuff at the front of the show. And I also want you to know that these are authentic conversations with real people. And these are just our opinions, but our opinions are not being skewed by sponsors or advertising dollars. I think that's a pretty toxic business model. So I hope you dig that. You can support us. If you go to cloudbasemayhem.com, you can find the places to support. You can do it through patreon.com forward slash Cloudbase Mayhem. If you want a recurring subscription, you can also do that directly through the website. Website, we've tried to make it really easy, and that will give you access to all the bonus material, little video casts that we do, and extra little, uh, nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show, but we feel like you should hear.
We don't put any of that behind a paywall; if you can't afford to support us, then just let me know and I'll set you up with an account. Of course, that'll be lifetime, and hopefully, and you're being in a position someday to be able, able to support us. But you'll find all that on the website. All of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought Cloudbase Mayhem merchandise, t-shirts or hats or anything, you should be all set up. You should have an account and you should be able to access all that bonus material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support and we'll see you on the next show. Thank you.