Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of Cloud Based Mayhem. Got a big one for you today. I was thinking this last week, you know, I need to do a walk down memory lane with some of the X-Alps pilots who have done it many times. You know, these memories fade for the fans and for the athlete and their teams. And wanted to sit down with some of these folks and take us back through the races. Kind of their best and worst moments. Stuff that probably isn't on live tracking that many of you don't know about, and me. So, the first I sat down with is the Eagle, Chrigel Maurer. Not much needs to be said in the intro about Chrigel. He has won seven. He's never not won.
His first was in 2009. He is preparing right now for his eighth. And he is always the man to beat. So, please enjoy this wonderful and make you smile walk down memory lane with Chrigel Maurer and his seven X-Alps campaigns.
Chrigel, good to see you. And welcome back to the show. I had no idea for a show with the X-Alps coming up. You're eighth. You've won seven. And my wife said last night, do you think someone could beat him? And I said, no, I don't think so yet. But I thought it'd be really fun to kind of take a walk down memory lane with you. You know, these things fade as we go by. You know, it made me think about my first in 2015. But I thought we could go back with you and revisit, you know, maybe a high point in the X-Alps. Maybe a high point in the low point from each of your races. And if you could, if you could set it up for us a little bit, because even the fans have probably lost some of the memories about what the route was back in 2009.
And and what the weather was like in general. Of course, all the races have, you know, but I know, for example, in 2011, the weather was pretty, pretty tough. And Tomo walked a ton and did pretty well. But set it up for us a little bit. Hi again. It's good to see you. And let's just let's take a walk down memory. Lane with you with your X-Alps as you head into your eighth.
Yeah, thank you very much. It's a it's a great idea. Thinking back, it's always nice because it's already a long time when I start the adventures. In 2009, we was really new in this adventure sport. For me, the team sport was new. And yeah, then then we started the X-Alps for the first time. I remember it was not sure. That we can even do one or two days because it was so big and and I was so unsure how I can walk. I was sure that they can fly well, but but to fly well, it needs a it needs a good strategy to be on the right place. So it starts really hard. And I really made a big mistake at the first day.
I lost my mobile phone and all the life tracking was connected with the mobile phone. So there was no life tracking on my part. And my support, Thomas, he was not know exactly where I am. And finally, we was really lucky that someone phoned my phone. He called the number. He was on the top of the list. And this was Thomas. So he got an information about my phone. And then he was driving back to the phone and he he catched and everything was good. When I was back with the with Thomas, I was sending all the right on the all the life tracking data. So I was sending all the right on the all the life tracking data. So even I do not need the backup. So it was very lucky.
But it's showing us how an adventure works, how it's a difference between a competition and an adventure. And I think it was the best the best thing or the best mistake. What can happen to show me this? And it was the first day on 2009. So yeah,
that could be tough. I lost my phone on the second day of the twenty. Seventy. And oh, it was a nightmare for about 30 minutes just wandering around in the bushes. How telling my team, please just call my phone, call it over and over again.
I
think finally it was it was good to continue and to to make day by day. And we had a good strategy already to to make the day report and to learn from our mistakes. And finally, this gave us. Oh. Oh. Always new ideas how we can manage ourselves.
And what were you what were you flying wing wise and harness wise then? Because the we heard that you were really the first one that really pushed the lightweight. You know, before 2009, people were carrying really heavy kit and you showed up. I think I have this right. You showed up with with quite light gear. I'd love to know how light was it compared to now? And and what were you flying?
That's right. In 2003, Kasper Henne was the winner and he carried 16 kilo. And then some manufacturer starts to build light gliders when they use the light cloth, but they not have a light construction. So the gliders come down from six kilo to four and a half. Maybe. And then in 2008. I was selected and there was test pilot with advanced. So I was able to to push the construction in lightweight and we build a new prototype, which was three and a half kilo.
Which was very light for this time. And finally, the the construction was light and and also the clothes. And then in 2011, there was not a big advantage. 2013. There was the new route. And then in 2011, there was a new rule to have certified gliders, certified harnesses, and it makes the equipment a bit heavier again. And then with 2015 with the two liner, that was quite heavy for this time. And the three liner was down to three kilo already. So in total, it means in 2009, it was with eight kilo quite light compared to the others. They had nine and a half to ten or even more.
And in 2015, there was already less than eight kilo with the with the certified gliders. And my lightest harness was 2013. There was a special one which was certified, but really light. Not know so much comfort, but it was working just for the for the adventure. The glider was light and and I guess that we can come to this weight.
In this years, there was several manufacturer that built very light gliders. Now they have also light harnesses, rescues and good back protection system, which makes the equipment more and less six kilo. The minimum equipment means the fly equipment. Also, the helmet is 400 gram already. The backpack is 400 gram, but six kilo. It's quite light.
Yeah, it's amazing. Obviously, it ended in Monaco. Then, but did it start in the Dockstein in in 2009 or was were you back at the Mozartplatz? That Mozartplatz in
2009, there was the first time they started the Mozartplatz in Salzburg City. Then we went up to Geisberg and then direction south to Watzmann. This is the high mountains in Berchtesgaden. And from there, it crosses all the Alps to the south.
So to Kronplatz. And this crossing was quite hard because it was still in the snow. So the border was in the snow and I spent a half a day walking in the snow. So it was a hard entry in a competition. And it was the last edition, which was without night break. So we had to walk or we were able to walk all the night without sleeping. And for me, it was sure that I have to sleep. At minimum, we said four hours. Most of the days, it was more than four hours. But I slept every night compared to the others. There was some athletes that was not sleeping so much.
And there was really on the edge after some days.
Was that rule change a suggestion that came from you and others after that race? Or was that something they were contemplating anyway? That, you know, they go on. They didn't have the night pass back then. You could just go for it. Yeah, there
was. In analyzing, the organization saw that we was the leader after nine days with the most of rest time. And then they realized that it's more fast when the athletes can rest or the team can rest. And to have more safety, they bring this rule to stop to sleep. And in 2013, there was even more rest time. Up to five and a half hours. And 2015, there was the first edition with the night pass.
Yeah, I got two night passes on that one with the prologue. And I learned that that isn't necessarily a good thing.
It's a hard decision to choose it and then to make the best with and not to push too much to be damaged.
Yeah, we pushed too much in a rainstorm the first night. And then the night pass, it slaughtered me. It was a terrible decision. But, okay, so you lost your phone. What about a really good memory from 2009? Maybe that actually is a good memory. But do you have something that when you think back on 2009, your first win, that was still something that makes you smile?
Yeah, for sure. It was good to have this shortcut direction Zermatt. We were directly on the Zermatt. We were on the Monte Rosa south face or east face. We climbed 2000 meters up past the glacier. And on the glacier, we made this start with the rope, this towing start. And the helicopter was with us filming this start. And for us, it was always a good example to speak about teamwork. So I have a mountain guide bring me up to the glacier, pull me in the air because the glacier was flat. And then I fly direction Matterhorn. And continue. And he had to walk back, walk down to the car, driving all the way above the passes.
And this shows really how in this race the teamwork is working. And when we had this experience, we always think about how we can make this or how we can create a situation like this to help each other with different skills. And then it helps us many times in different races.
I think you said this on a previous show, maybe, or maybe I asked Thomas this actually when we were working together last year. But how did you and Thomas connect for
that first time? I met him just seven months before the race because I was looking for a mountain guide. He was in studio, so he was not so free to train and to make good preparation. But finally, he was enough motivated to work with me to see what's working in the practice. With the athlete from his know-how from the studio. And finally, it was the best what can happen because we start to work quite constantly and seriously. And then he learned how to support. And finally, he was the only one supporter I bring. And he was driving the car all day and he was really on the edge like me too.
But we was managing. And for sure it was. No social media work. It was not so much fans on the road. So it was someone so many things less to do in these races compared to now.
But we was really, really on the border. And it was a good experience. And we was really learning from each other what we need, how we work. And for sure that we not communicate good enough. Because communication is always difficult when you are tired, when you are stressed. And since then I have started to learn how to communicate better in difficult situations. And he too.
I was going to ask you something. Somebody the other day asked me, hey, does Chrigel ever get angry? Does he ever get upset? You know, you see pilots in World Cups and that kind of thing get really pissed or kick their helmet. Do you get angry? When you make a bad mistake? Or is it just part, you know, you let it roll off you pretty easily? No,
I am really focused on performance. My luck is that I do competitions since a long time. So I started in 2000. And I had a really hard time when I was in the PWC in 2002, 2003. I was really pissed off. And I made a lot of noise outside. But finally there was a... A time of learning and to understand that paragliding sport is working differently. And that I have to accept things. And when I started the adventure races, the hike and flight competitions in 2009, I was already old. And that was managing me by myself quite good. So that helps me to look seriously from outside.
You mentioned before we started talking that you are right. Thomas is going to support you again. He will be, I guess, your main supporter. But you are trying to find your new team. You have changed your team quite a bit over the years with Xpear and Dolomiti. And I often see new people that I have not seen before. Do you think that is important to... Or is that more important than just keeping the same core team? Because I imagine you could have the same. You know, people would love supporting you and would do it over and over again. Kind of like Thomas has done. You guys had a big break there for a couple of races. But what is your philosophy on putting together your team? Yeah,
I really try to keep the supporters. But in an example, Thomas, he started working with his company. He was a father in 2015. He had two kids. And the time is always the problem. So spending so much time for training and preparation. And then for the race. It is not always easy. And then there was... Sometimes it was... Or until 2014 or 2015 we worked together. And then in 2016 he was complaining because of the time. Then I started working with Tobias Stimmler. And then he grew up and he started to work differently.
He was in India and travelling a lot. So I was looking out for a new team. And it was changing like this. But for my philosophy it is to have people who are motivated to work with me. To learn something in this way of adventure and paragliding sport. And I really like to share them all my experience. And they come with me to the competitions and try to do the best and having fun. And in 2020 Thomas said, Okay, my family is working well. The company is increasing. So we can start training for the next X-Helps again. And so in 2021 he was with me again.
And for the next edition we are looking forward. And we need more people because there are so much things to do. And with a team of three or maybe four with the other car. It looks for us really working well. So we continue like this. And now we look for people who are motivated and spending time. Because the preparation and the three or four weeks competition is quite a lot. Just for the holiday.
Yeah, it is a huge commitment. Okay, 2011. I know the weather was bad. But maybe you can tell us briefly what the route was. I was watching you guys from Scotland in this one. I was sailing up in Scotland that summer. And that's when I got really interested in it. So I remember this race quite well. But Hansa and Thomas, it seemed like it was a lot of ground game in 2011.
Yeah, because the route starts heading to the east first to Dachstein. And then back to the west. And it was a hard entry. Because there was a strong south wind. It was Fern. And I remember there was Ogisava with the Boomerang. Boom 8. It was really performing well. And in the Fern he had really big collapses. But he was managing well. He was first in the first day. And then the second day we spent all day on the road. Together with Paul Guschlbauer. I walked 95 km. And on day three, we were completely destroyed. And then we had to cross the main ridge.
Direction Dreizhime. Dreizhime in Dolomiti. And then on day four I had to walk again all day. It was horrible weather. And then day five I spent in a small flight. But then I made a big mistake. And from outside it looks like a big magic move. But for me it was hard to realize that I made a mistake. I flew after Meran. Direction Martell. Instead of the Stelvio pass. And I wanted to cross the Stelvio pass, Bormio. And then direction Zermatt. And instead I was one valley too early in the south. And Thomas told me when I was landed.
That I am staying in the wrong valley. I had to walk back. And say no it's not possible. I want to continue here. So there was a big discussion. And I was really frustrated. Because I realized that I was wrong. I was navigating by paper maps. So there was no GPS.
And like this we made mistakes. And finally I was really frustrated. But then after a while we found a new solution. We found this way to the Kasati hut. This was a small hut on 3000 meters. And we were going to the Kasati hut. And the weather was horrible. It was snowing and foggy. And we were able to catch the hut before the night.
Because there was the new rest time at 11. And then we were really lucky that the next day was flyable from the hut. From 3000. And I was really in a good position. Because the teams in the south was in stable air. The teams at Stelvio pass in the north was in fern. In strong north wind. And I was really in the middle. And I was able to fly more than 200 km in this day. And I flew all the way to Zermatt. But then on the way I hit the airspace in Ticino. By one meter. Finally it was one meter with three different tracks. In four different programs calculating. And the worst was more than 10 meters inside.
And the best was one meter. But one meter is one meter too much. And I was spending one day. There was 24 hour penalty in Zermatt. And it was a hard lesson. But finally it's the rules. And my luck was that the flight in the day before was so good. So efficient. That I could stay in front with the rest day. And I was able to recover from all these hikes we had on the days before. I was really happy. I was really destroyed. And I was able to recover from all these hikes we had on the days before. And I was I think it was in the first time in my life. Really on sitting down. And I was sure I have to stop the race. Because my legs was damaged. And with this rest time.
Or this day off. I was able to recover. I recovered good enough to continue walking on the day in Zermatt. And then I was flywheel a bit. So it was an unbelievable experience to realize that even at the point you not see how to continue, somehow you can continue and you can make it to the end.
Is that the one where you wrote your name in the track log?
Finally, yes, because we were in a lead in France. We were south of the Bonnet Pass and the weather was horrible this afternoon. It was my birthday and then we were calculating the chance to finish the day or the next day. And the forecast looked good to fly the day after. And so I decided to stop in the afternoon and we waited there for hours. We were sleeping in the afternoon, it was raining. And then we tried the live tracking because the live tracking, it's the best thing with the X-Alps, what they do.
And finally, we were trying the new precision of the new live tracking and it was really good. So we walked on the grass and hiked this hello. And you can clearly see at the live tracking the hello. But it was my birthday and the day after it was flyable and I could finish the race first. And it was so, so good experience.
We're jumping ahead a little bit here, but I need to ask, is that of the seven wins, does one of them stand out more? Did any of the seven mean more than the others?
No, I think the first was really the best because I really want to win and I was unsure how it works. The second was more in a lead, so I was really in a comfortable situation. It was not really a race after. And the third one was even better. I had the biggest advantage ever, almost 300k.
And yeah, for me, always when I won a competition, the first, it was the most important. And after I was like an extra. So it was the same in PWC, the same in Swiss Championship and so on. And for me, it was always the challenge to win first. And then. And then to the afterwards, I really enjoyed the competition, but the win was sometimes not as special as the first one.
And I think in 2011, that was when Tomo was second. Yeah, he was
running all the rest and he was walking for 85k in eight hours and more than a thousand meter uphill. And he was arriving running and I was so impressed about him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in the beginning, I was together with him in the hotel and he was not able to walk at the table. It was hard to see this.
He's a glutton for punishment. He's back again. Okay. 2013. I also remember this one really well because I was starting to think about it at that point. And wow, the weather was amazing. You finished the race in a little over six days. Yeah, but the
fast one. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about that. That was, I remember the first day you guys flying down the Pinsgau. You and Aaron and I think you made it all the way to the Zugspitze that day.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And finally, I was really lucky because I was just crossing the mountains of Karwendel and there was a thunderstorm coming and I was just passing and for Aaron, it was not able to pass. So I had a bit of an advantage. I was able to pass the first day and then I was flying really good all day quite far and finally I flew from Solden to Grimselpass. That was for me unbelievable. And then I was already at home. There was a turn point at home that was really emotional because I arrived just before noon and there was a lot of friends and my family and I really was happy to arrive at home.
And then it was really hard to leave because everything was perfect. I had a good lead, but I realized the conditions are good. And the next was Mont Blanc and I was really unsure how to fly there because it was so far. No, it was Matterhorn and then Mont Blanc. And then I start and I tried to fly along the mountains, which I know were not that far away. I was not sure if I was going to be able to fly well, but that it wasn't a flight was so successful. I was not expecting in the evening. I was in the south of Mont Blanc. I was on the wrong side of the big mountain. Everybody expected I made a big mistake and we had the plan to fly around and going north of the Mont Blanc when I was turning around.
So finally, it was a really good tactic. And well, I was able to fly. It was a big surprise for some of the followers. And for us, it was just nice to have this scene before and to try and to believe that it works. And finally, the lead was really big.
That was where you went to Chiavenna and up the back side, I mean, the south side and around. Oh, that was amazing to watch. So that was the plan?
Yeah. Yeah, because this is
when you were really, really cold, right?
Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible. Flying almost on 4000. That was minus. And I remember I landed on zero or 200 meters sea level. There was 36 degrees. So the difference between zero or minus one on 4000 and plus 36 on the ground, it was huge. And I flew all the way south from Mont Blanc in this height and I was really freezing all the time. But for me, it's normal to freeze because when I push. I'm on the ground. My body is recovering and I always having cold. I can wear all the jackets I have. It's not working. My fingers are cold. And so I know how it works. But by moving and shaking hands, normally it works well.
The the. I might have my years wrong here, but in 2013, was that wasn't that also when you took off from the FERCA and had a really scary flight? Did basically to your house?
Yeah, I had a short a short stop at FERCA, but then I flew just until Grimsel Pass. There is normally strong north wind, the Grimsel wind, and then I rest on the pass for two or three hours until the wind it's degrees to fly to the north. And then and the next day I flew home. To Interlaken.
So it was. It was a long flight from Sultan to Grimsel Pass with a small stop at FERCA.
And was it was was that the one that was really scary? Didn't you have a really scary flight that you when you landed? You were pretty shaken up. You told me. Yeah.
Was that 2013? It was this. Yes. Because at the. Oberalp pass before the wind was really strong. Thomas told me with the message. It's more than 70 on the pass. I was 1000 meters above, so there was not so windy, but I was with strong backwind. And then at FERCA pass, it was not so much wind, but they saw the wind at Grimsel. That's why I landed on the FERCA to. To breeze and to think about what I do and to be sure what I do, because I was really pushing all the day. It was cold. I was I had not too much to eat, to drink. And after. If you see this. Problems in front, it's stressful for sure.
And to land and to think about it's always a good option.
Is you is you tick off these ex-alps? You're certainly not old, but you're getting older and you're, you know, got kids and the whole thing. Does your does your approach to risk? Is it changing as the years go by? I found that after I had my daughter, this this last one, I don't know that it affected how I flew or my approach. But it was definitely something that was on my mind was just that this this last one, we had a lot of Fern. We had a lot of wind like we did in 2015, but also the bad weather. There was there was a lot of times where I felt like it was just pushing it. I felt fine in the time of doing it, you know, but after the race, I thought, geez, that's that was quite a bit of risk.
Yeah. Yeah. I realized that. I. I think my best years was 2012 to 14, 15. And because I was really focused on flying and pushing always in cross country in testing. And then I start to fly less because I spend more time with the family. While flying or while competing, I really focus on flying and not thinking too much on family. But but in training, I think more and more about. I think more about serious training and risks in training. So. To risk less in the training makes sense, but then my experience, my feelings are less in the competition.
And then it's very important to not trying new things in the competition, keeping all the experience from the trainings. And this is a hard border. And I know, for example, for next year, I have to really to train a lot. To push the limits. But because of becoming older and smarter, it's really hard. Yeah.
Okay. 2015.
This. This would have been your 9, 11, 13. This is your fourth one. 2015.
Yeah. Finally, I switched back to Advance. Advance had the first certified competition glider. And I was really motivated with this OXA1. And I was together with Thomas. And we made the special move to bring an electric car as a supporter car. So to have the challenge to support by full electric car. This nice race, which I had to walk or to fly. So we say the strategy is that I go by muscle power, wind power. And Thomas, the supporter, starts with the electric car. And I go by electric power. And for us, it was a good challenge, but also good motivation in the preparation.
To learn how to manage all these tactics things. To bring not too much things. So we had a lot of compromises with the small car.
And finally, it was a good focus and motivation to see how it works. Or can it work? And for sure, everybody was smiling. Also, the organization was smiling when we bring the electric car. And four years later, we had an electric car too. From Audi, the e-tron. It was an official car from the organizer's sponsors. And I think we were really fresh in this electric power. But it was a good motivation for us. And also for our partners and sponsors. And finally, we started the race with a lot of unknown.
With a lot of challenges also on the ground. But we were really lucky that the first day started really good, fly-wise. We flew more than 150 km in the first day. And it was already at the second turn point in the evening. Nobody expected it. And it was a good motivation to start the race with this flight. Yeah,
that was an amazing day. I landed that day down on the river just this side of the Chiemsee. I think I was in fourth. And I was so excited that I dropped my gloves and my earpiece. And I ran towards the river because I thought, I got to get to the top and get off with those guys. And I was so excited and a rookie that I left a trail of stuff behind me. Like your phone thing with the 2009 race. I learned a lot that day. Okay, wait a minute. Slow down. Check your stuff. It's a long race. It doesn't all happen today.
Yeah. And finally I was walking with Paul. Yeah, it was really nice. It was the first one. He went quite north in Germany in the flat. And for me it was an unknown area. And at this day, at the second day in this race, I made a mistake. I was pushing too much, flying alone. And then Paul caught me or he overpassed me. So it was a good learning. And then I was focusing on my own and keeping my own pace and moving more smart. And then it continues like this. And with the electric car it was working. And finally it was nice.
Then crossing from Germany all the way to Italy, to Milan. And further on. To Brenta. It was really nice. I was together with Sebastian Huber, a German. He was new in the... He was also a rookie this time. And he was really pushing hard on the ground. I thought already it's maybe his turn. But finally flying afterwards to Monaco made the change. It was really face to face until Anssi. And on the last day I was making a little difference. But it was a hard race with him. And I realized that new faces coming in.
Yeah. I wish we could still see him in the race. He kind of came in and did his thing. And that was it. But yeah, he was strong that year. And then that was also the year late. As you and Sebastian were heading to Monaco, Paul made quite a nice move. It looked like it was going to be a really nice move. He kind of stayed west to the Grenoble side. And had a nice flight. But in the end you guys got him.
I don't really remember the last last things. But there was the night pass. The night pass was new. And Paul, he... I used it at the beginning. So I didn't have it anymore. And Paul brought it in. And he made a good walk in the night. He could catch up the first group. And then he was really in a good position. Then he entered. And Sebastian was second. So it was really... In the end it was a really hard race. For me it was different to 2013 when I was really in the lead. And I was really happy that I made it. And there was the year which was... I think the most people or the most athletes in goal.
It was more than... 18. 19 or
something. Yeah, it was a lot. Yeah.
That was cool.
Yeah, that was the first year. I think they changed the 48-hour rule. Yeah. It used to be 48 hours. And so I remember that being our goal. Is that I have to get in within... And we did. We got in. So in the old rules I think our team would have been the last ones in. But then that year was the one they changed it to 12 days. And so a lot more got in. That was fun. That's true. That was the year I decided I didn't like Monaco very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Not friendly at all with Monaco. No. It was emotional. It was nice to arrive at the sea to swim. But after it was always a bit hard to have this cut from the adventure into the city. Yeah. And it was... Yeah, it was crazy to come back into the reality.
Yeah. It was very anticlimactic I found just being in the concrete. In the concrete jungle and hot. Oh, so hot. Really hot, yeah. Always. There were a lot of accidents that year. I don't know if you remember, but Toma had a bad one and Tom DeDorladeau had a bad one. There was quite a few withdrawals. Did you have any really borderline situations, any scary situations with the wind?
In 15, the problem was the windy days. So there was a lot of windy days with the fern. I remember when I crossed from the south of Switzerland towards Engadin. There was the Korvatsch, it was the turn point. And there was... The forecast was clearly that it comes fern. There was the day when Toma landed and he was blowing away with his glider and he had crouched his face. Vici was with the collapse and the rescue landed in the lake. So he was blowing above the lake after the... During the reserve. And the lake was really cold and there was no boat to rescue him.
So he was really lucky to swim by himself to save himself. And finally, I think it was just because of many windy days. But also there was rough conditions. Aron told me he had heart collapses because it was so rough. And my son... I was stuck in the wind, in the fern by myself in Ticino. When I flew from the Engadin valley crossing by foot to Ticino valley, I launched with easy wind. But when I crossed to the main valley from Gotthard to Ticino,
I spent 2,000 meters straight away down. Without any meters in front. So it was just too windy. It was more than 50 in gusts 60. And it was not efficient anymore. I spent after all evening walking and was lucky to have no wind the next day to fly continue to valleys. I think there was always hard days because when it's too windy, it's easy. When it's raining, it's easy. When it's flyable, well, it's easy. But the days which are at the border, when it's windy, when it's foggy, when it's raining a little bit,
then it's always difficult to have the good decisions. And I think 2015 was one of the most difficult years because of these unsure days.
Yeah. Are you surprised there's not more accidents?
I think so. I think with the selection of the athletes, the organization brings a lot of safety in. And the athletes are really trained. They also train more hard than for other competitions. Then we bring gliders which are a bit easier than the comp wings. Most of the athletes, they fly high-aspected wing. And in the adventure, they fly easier wings. So it helps. And for sure, we are pushing, but we also know the limits from the trainings. So if there is an accident, if there is a problem, pilots normally react even better than others.
You can see this clearly in the across scene. So when they train the tumbles and they fall into the canopy, most of the cross country pilots, they give up. And they come back. And they crash without the rescue. And the acro pilots, they fall into the canopy and they go out and through reserve. So they're really focused on these accidents. And they can solve the problems often good. And I think it's the same with the adventure athletes that they know quite good what to do in strange situations. And that's why the accidents are not so often. Or if there is an accident, it's more or less good.
Okay, 2017, number five. Another really pretty terrible year for weather. I think just you and Benoit got in that year, if I'm right. And Paul was close.
Let's hear about 2017.
Yeah, for me, it was the first edition without Thomas. So Tobias Stimler and Bruno Petroni was with me. So it was a new challenge to learn. And we learned from each other how it works. It was the year before. And 2016, we were together in the XP race. It was working already well. And I switched to Skywalk with the new glider, which was working very good for this time. I was really happy. Finally, the route was new. It was even more long as every edition. It goes more and more long. And I understood to... To finish in these 12 days, it could be difficult. Especially the turn points really in the south, Monte Baldo.
We heard that it's really stable often. And it's windy and not easy to cross. And yeah, it makes it really interesting. I was a bit frustrated that it was not more in Switzerland. So we managed Matterhorn from the south.
And finally, it was heavy. We were heading directly from Matterhorn to the goal. So there was no normal route over France. And it makes a lot of new thinking. Finally, we were managing well.
I was able to fly until Monte Baldo with a nice flight. And then back to direction Switzerland, crossing the Gino. It was really nice. And then for sure, the decision on the last part to fly direction France or stay in Italy, direction to Reno and the flat. It was really difficult. I expected always to fly to the west, following the good mountains. But exactly when I was there, there was a thunderstorm. And that was really not efficient on this day. And I had... Heading back to... To Rhea, Turin. And I realized that it could be really difficult with the flat.
But it was a new challenge. And I made it as always. I was taking this decision. Looking forward. Make next step. I remember Benoit was walking on one day 113 kilometers. It was unbelievable. And I had to walk 75 in this flat until then. The next mountain. Which was the Gomeo Pass. And it was completely like a new challenge. Like a new adventure. And for me it makes even more motivated than maybe 2015. And finally we was really close. And I was able to fly to the beach again.
And for me it was so nice feeling to fly from far. Arriving in the evening at the beach. Have a swim. It was so emotional. It was so nice. And I was really in a lead. I could see that Benoit is close. But too close to catch me. And I was really starting relaxing and enjoying. Even before I was in the goal. And we was inviting directly there in the house. Someone was inviting us. And we all with the team. My mother was there. My
father was arriving.
And we stayed there in the evening. Spent the night in the house. And it was so nice. And then the next day was just walking a little bit. But for me it was the year which I had the most problem with my knees. Because the first day in this race we had to walk from Salzburg. Over the Gaisberg all the way to Wagrain. And this was for me it was more than 80 km. I remember Toma Goconea was running more than 110 km. Because the first day was just from 12 to 10. So it was a short day. And he was more than 100 km running. And for me this 85 was already too much.
And the knee was starting hurting. And never recovers well. So I was all the race with pain. 10 days painful. And this was for sure for me the hardest race ever.
Has that been any kind of a problem since? Your knee? Is there any kind of recurring thing? Or is that just from that overuse of the first day?
Yeah, it's because of overload of the first day. Because of this 85 km running and hiking. The muscle was with a strong tension. And then it makes the tension on the knee makes it worse the days after. And then it starts to be painful. I don't know the name exactly in English. It's a...
Tendonitis or something.
Yeah. It's a run in the knee. They say. Yeah.
That was the one too. I remember watching you on live tracking getting blown out of the mountains. In that thunderstorm down south. I can't remember the name of that town south of Araya. And you were going like 100 and something km an hour. And there was airspace right in front of you. We talked about this on another show. But you even going even flying that fast. And what a must have been pretty scary air. You went around the airspace. Yeah. I think I would have just flown right through it.
Yeah. This was really strange because I was hiking up, flying down this day all the day. And then at once there was a thunderstorm coming. I was resting for 30 minutes under all the wind. And then I saw a rock.
Afterwards it clears up and it looks quite flyable. And I wanted to fly more west into the mountains to finish on the good flying mountains. And I took off in nice conditions. But from the west the next storm came. And when I flew I realized that it starts to be really windy. Then I wanted to go down to have less headwind. I spiraled down for 600 meters. And after the 600 I realized that it's even more wind down there. And then it was really good to have this plan B to rescue in the flat. I realized with the airspace it will not be easy or for sure not efficient.
Because I had to fly crossing the direction line or the direct line to the goal. And this was interesting. In this case it was not important anymore. I was sure to rescue and to save my life. And then I flew away with the wind. And I remember I made a screenshot on my phone with the speed of 113. And it was not turbulent. It was just windy. And I flew away for 17 km in a short time. And I landed in the flat very safe. In the sun no problem. The storm was not reaching the landing even. But I had to walk for 75 km after.
It was very expensive.
Expensive flight. But for me it was the only way to stay safe.
2019 yet again longer. But in a lot of ways nice weather. We had no fern that year. I don't remember ever having to even think about a launch. They were all. You just went up and you could launch. We had the kind of tough days in the middle of the race. And then we had that crazy sandstorm that came from Africa. It was over 100 degrees in Chamonix. When I went through Chamonix it was so hot and so stable. Which I found very challenging. But yeah. What are your best and worst memories from 2019?
It was the year they top landed on Mont Blanc. 60 pilots top landed at 4,000 feet. And they flew up to 6,000 meters. And I remember Tomas Kokonea. He flew up to 6,000 meters. It was so hot. And the thermals were so good. It was unbelievable. Myself I was. On this good day I was in the goal. I was in Monaco. It was also 40 degrees. It was horrible. But I watched on the live tracking. And I was really impressed to see the height they gained. Yeah.
For us. The race was good. Because I was with the new team. Andy Schäuble and Steffi Westerhuis gave me good support. And we were again in Switzerland. There was a turn point in Switzerland. It was Titlis. 3,000 meter peak. I was really wondering how I can reach the peak. Finally I had a good flight from Davos. From the turn point. In the good route direction Titlis. And I know the place a little bit. Not that good. But I was able to top land. And for me it was like Christmas. It was so nice. Because the peak is so hard to climb by foot.
It's so high. And I top landed in the evening. I signed. There was a storm coming. So I really could stay for more than an hour at the top. And there were some friends there. And I really spent. And joy. And I was really relaxed at this time. Because I made it. It was the middle of the race. But I felt like I got it.
Yeah. That was the winner. That was the game winner for sure that year. Top landing there. Because that's a big one to climb. And everybody else had to climb it. It's a long way up.
Yeah. This was unbelievable. And in the evening I flew down. And I was like. Many friends was joining me in the evening. And the next morning. And then I was really at home.
Crossing by foot all the valleys. It was a hard next day. Because I made 5400 meters in vertical. Just gliding down. It was my. I think it was the most I did in X-Hulps day. But yeah. It was at my home place. And I know it well. But it was not working in termling. So I had to hike. It was a really hike and fly day.
Now you're reminding me of something that was pretty remarkable that day. You took off from Davos really low. You just signed the board. Walked across. Came up a little bit. And maybe you and I talked about this. I can't remember. But I thought you had. You kind of knew. Okay. If I can make Titlis. I got to do it in this amount of time. So that. You worked it back. And tell me if I've got this wrong. But you worked it back. And decided. I have to take. I can't take any more time to get higher. Or was it just. You just felt like you could get out of there. Because you took off really low. Yeah. Right. You just benched up from low.
Yeah. It was. It was. Really hard decision. The locals say it's not working. I had to go more up. But I know that. If I want to do this 100 kilometers to the Titlis. I have to go. But I know that. With the average speed of 25. It's 4 hour flying. I have to start now. Because otherwise it's not working. And it's a lot of things. Working like this. In an adventure race. That you have. To take a bit of a risk. It's like a poker. And then. I say. Okay. I can try. If it's not working. I have to walk anyway. I spent. 15 minutes. For. Trying. Packing. But if it works. I can do Titlis. And then I really gain a lot.
And finally it works. And I think it's. It's something which helped me a lot. In the past. That I really think like this. So trying. To gain a lot. And. Finally I was in a lead of 30 minutes. Compared to Maxim. And in the evening I was one day ahead. And. Yeah. And this because of this risk. And. For sure it was a risk. But. But I also. When I'm walking up. I got the feeling from the. From the terminals. From the wind. I saw clouds. I saw birds. And finally. Gives me. A good feeling. And with this good feeling. I. I tried. With. With the really bad feeling. Or. If there. For example. Is no wind. I not.
Try. And say. Okay. Let's try. Now or never. Yeah. And. It needs the experience.
It needs a good feeling.
Because with the good feeling. And to say. Normally it works like this. But I hike higher. Then you not. Win.
Right. Right. You got to gamble. When. When the gambling is good.
Yeah. It needs this consolation. Of. Of. A good feeling. But also to. To try. And to. To have the gamble.
Before we go to 21. Because I know you got a hard out here. About six minutes. So we're trying to move through it. But. Before we go to 21. Any. Any real memorable. Mistakes. In 2019. Or problems. Or. Issues. That. Still stick with you.
I think I make many small. Mistakes. Or. In the beginning. I realized. Okay. There is. Every day. I realized that there is. Many small mistakes. And they can. Do better here. I can. Eat better there.
But. Then in analyzing. I say. Every team. Do a lot of mistakes. Every day. So. It's typical. For an adventure race. Because of. The unknown. Because of the stress. Because of the team.
Every team. Have. Problems. And. And do mistakes. And then. I think about. What I can improve. For 21. And. Together with Thomas. We start to say. Let's. Try. To do less. Mistakes. And this was a really good motivation. To say. We do something. Which is not possible. To do. Zero mistakes. We not. Can do a race. Without. Risks. So. You have to handle the risks. And the mistakes. And finally. It gives us. A good. Good strategy. To think about. What can be a mistake. At the next move. What can be. Mistakes. In the next days. And to think about. Reduce the mistakes. It helped us. To. To be more.
Serious. With us. Myself. And. To reduce. The mistakes. Which makes us faster. And. In. In general. I think. I'm really proud. About. About. Myself. Or. About. The teams. I had. That we not. Really make big mistakes. And. I also think. Because of this. We was always. Fast. Because. The others are. Also fast. In running. The others are fast. In flying. And. With this. Mistakes. They do. Maybe they got. Or they lost. A bit. The self.
But. With this. They make. Even more mistakes. And. For us. We always. Was able. To. To be realistic. And. To say. Okay. We made a mistake. But it's done. Focus on the next step. And. With this. Thinkings. We was always. Able to. To be. Quite good. In the end. Compared. To the others.
And. Speaking of. Compared. To the others. We had a tight race. Much tighter. Than. Ever before. Really. In. Twenty. In. Twenty. Twenty-one. The same length. As. Twenty-nineteen. But. Totally different route. First year. We didn't go to. Monaco. And. An out. And back. With. Mont Blanc. Which. I know. You were thrilled. About. As. I was. That was pretty exciting. And. Really. Tight. Until. The big move. That's gotta be a famous. Big move. Now. These days. I think that was day eight. But.
For me. The weather. In. Twenty. Twenty-one. Was pretty terrifying. It had all the wind. Of. Twenty-fifteen. But. Also. Just. There were so many times. Where. I would land. And. Within. Seconds. Would just be a. Deluge. Just. Incredible. Downpours. And really strong. Fern. And. Some really. Violent. Weather. For. For much of the race. Maybe. Not the first. Three days. But. Yeah. Tell me about. Twenty. Twenty-one. Because. From the. From the live. Tracking. It was. You know. The. The top. Ten. Were pretty tight. For a while. Yeah.
It already starts. At the beginning. At the first. Day. We was. Really. In a windy. Place. So. Maxime. And. Some others. There was. Climbing. And. I'm not. Want. To go. As. Close. As. Them. And. I was. Not. Climbing. And. Finally. I lost. A bit. Of. A distance. So. I was. In the back. Already. After. Some. Hours. But. In the. Evening. I managed. Quite. Well. So. I was. Quite. Good. In. A.
Position. For. To. Kuschelpauer. But. Also. Maxime Pinot. Made. A. Mistake. On. This. Second. Day. So. He. Had. A. Lot. Disadvantage. I. Could. Job.
Flew. In. A. Good. Group. And. We. Made. The.
Evening. I. Had. A. Flight. Direction. West. I. Had. A. Good. Advantage. And. Then. In. The. Next. Morning. I. Don't. Know. Why. But. It. Was.
Not. But. In. This. Evening. The. Strong. Wind. Brings. Us. Quite. Far. Direction. All. Berg. And. Then. The. Weather. Changed. And. I. Really. Was. Impressed. How. Good. The. Conditions. Was. For. Flying. Because. Forecast. Was. Always. Very. Bad. And. And. Day. Three. The. Weather. Was. Really. Bad. In. The. Morning. But. In. The. Evening. It. Was. Quite. Good. Flying. And.
We. Could. Do. The. Swiss. Turnpoint. Santis. Crossing. Direction. Fiesch. And. And. Finally. That. Was. The. Day. Which. Starts. To. Be. Really. Difficult. With. The. Wind. With. Rain. And.
Clouds. Uhm. Yeah. For. Sure. Two. Just. Two. Walk. It's. Not. An. Option. Because. If. The. Others. Fly. And. They. Do. Well. Than. They. Are. Much. Faster. So. So you always have to think about solutions to fly, but also to have enough safety, to have always a good plan B. And for me, I was really not in the flow on this day. I was always thinking with the forecast, okay, let's do this, and then the rain came earlier, or there was bad wind. I not understood what I do wrong, but it's sometimes like this. Sometimes everything works, and for me, the race 2013 was unbelievable because every plan we had was perfect all the six days.
And in 2021, the first two days was okay, but then day three, four, and five, it was not working as we expect. And to say, okay, it's like this, continue focusing, it's really important, but I not understood what I do wrong. And then when I do the big flight of day eight, everybody told me, wow, you did a magic move, how you can imagine this weather and how you can fly like this, and where you got the good information for this. And I was surprised because for me, it was nothing else than the days before. I just focused on the next solutions.
I choose an option, and I try to do my best, and it was nothing else. But on this day, it was really working well. So it was for us, it was nice. And finally, I analyzed a bit, and I was more confident to stay in the north because I know the area a bit better. And I expect to start earlier than in the south. I expect to have more options because I can stay in the north or I can fly to the south. And I think that I will be able to stay in the south if there is better conditions.
And I hear also that the French, Maxime and Benoit, they had forecast that it's good flyable in the south too. Because of the wind, maybe it's better in the south. And for the others, for Patrick and Simon, they continue in the south, so they not even came to Wallis to the north. So for them, it makes more sense to stay south. And this was my luck that on this Sunday, they will be able to fly to the north. And I think that the conditions in the south was cloudy, it was stable, and it was not really flyable. And on my side in the north, it was a bit windy, but it was crosswind. It was good thermals. It was high cloud base. And with the strong thermal and high base, I was able to fly in the end against the wind
because the wind, the south wind, was kind of firm, but it was not that strong. And typically firm, there was not above 3000. And I flew above 3000, and on this layer, I was able to fly well against the wind. And yeah, it was a mix in between choosing a good option, but also believe in myself and this option, and then to try, and then to be a bit lucky with the weather, and that I can manage more than 200k on this day, which was, I think, the most difficult flight, more than 200k in life.
Yeah, on this day, and it makes a difference in total. This was unbelievable. And we were sitting in the pizzeria in the evening, all the team together, and it was a really nice and joyful evening.
Does anything... Was it uncomfortable for you to not be in kind of a commanding position? This was the first race where you'd had other races, like you said, where you were jockeying early, but for the most part, you've been out in front. And this was really until day eight, things were pretty tight. Was that different in terms of the fun that you had with your team, or was that challenge quite nice? Was that something you quite enjoyed?
If you just analyzed the X-ups, it was new. If you analyze my race system, which I do since 25 years, it means PWC, it means cross country flights, we always fly like this and stay together all the time. So for me, it was not new, it was just normal. And sure, it was after seven days, nothing was working well, or the other did also really well. I was thinking about a hard final, and then I was really happy and relaxed after day eight.
But in the end, I think it comes closer and closer each edition. You could see this year in the X-Pyr, it was close. In the Dolomiti Superfly, it was really close. So the others, they are really good, coming stronger and stronger with the teams.
So in the past, it was comfortable, but in the future, it will be really hard. And this is one part I stay motivated, I think.
How old are you now, Chrigel?
I'm 40.
40, okay. Hey, before we sign off, last question, because I know a lot of people want to know this, and maybe you've covered this in your presentations, but live tracking kind of went glitchy on us in the X-Pyr, and you and Maxime are together. The night before, Rito made this incredible move. Did I have that right? Not Rito. Yeah, Remy.
It looked like you maybe kind of had it, and then you caught him the next day, and you and Maxime were flying together. And then, what did you do? I heard you top landed there, and gained some more height, and then you flew over his head, but tell it from your perspective, because live tracking kind of went down, and it was hard to tell what happened there, except that suddenly you were in goal, and Maxime was walking.
Yeah, it was really an interesting
race, and it was really a very interesting race in the end. The day when Pierre flew passing us, we were too much into the mountains, it was too windy, or I not flew because it was too much energy and too windy.
And then the next morning was really beautiful, because we also were in the front of the ridge in good windy conditions, and at 8 already we were soaring up to 3000, and it was so nice together with Maxime, and then we catch up with Pierre, and together with these two we flew quite efficient, because they are the best pilots, also in cross country, and we were pushing really good, it was good fun, but then when it got really difficult, the lines went tricky, and we went, or Maxime, he went from us, because he was in a better position, myself I was in the middle, and Pierre was really low, he was really lucky to not bomb out,
but in the end, Maxime was in the wrong way, so he got stuck, and we were continuing quite good, and then we came into the inflation of the sea breeze, so there was stable air, and I arrived on the last hill, or last mountain, this Cunigo, and I was stuck in the inversion, and Pierre came to me, and together we were trying, and I flew there for one hour, and was not climbing at a good position, but above there was clouds, so I expected that it works, but I was not able to land at the west face, because it was too rocky and too forest, and it was not able, so when Maxime arrived one hour later, he arrived maybe 100 meters higher, and it was just enough to climb, and yeah, I was a bit shocked and frustrated, and I thought, okay, this
is over, but then I flew around the mountain, and I could land there, in a small place, and I climbed for 500 meters by foot, because I saw a place where I can launch above, so I reached the place, yeah, it was a hard hour, because I realized I'm not in a good position, I have to walk, I have to push, but then I thought, when I can fly until the beach, maybe I can pass Maxime and Pierre, and I expected less sea breeze, as later I arrive, and I can fly more further, and this was my
yeah,
my thoughts in this moment, and this helps me really to focus my own, and to go step by step, and it was still more than 60 km when I launched for the last flight, it was very windy conditions, it started to be cloudy, but somehow it works, also Pierre, he landed, but he landed more north, so he was not in a good position to come into the wind, into the good conditions, makes him slower at this time, and yeah, it was really funny, because I never checked the life tracking during flying, in the races, because I focus on my own, but on this time I was really wondering what Maxime do, and because everybody watching the life tracking was killed, and it was not working,
and I contacted my supporter, they don't know at all, because they were driving, and they don't see Maxime, and so it was flying in unknown, but then it was really nice, because I was quite close to the ground in the flatland, and at once it was climbing, and I tried to climb with 0.5, 0.2, 0.8, for 300 meters, and then it was finished, and I said, okay, at least 300 meters, I can save another 3 kilometers, and then after 2 kilometers, there was a thermal of 2 meters, and it was climbing so nice, in the evening,
and it was so smooth, and it was, it already the first turn felt really good, and then I was sure I made it, I can make it, and then there was a really good one that brought me up 1000 meters in the flat, and the glide ratio to the goal came down to 13, and I almost made it to the goal, or to the finish, and it was really a nice experience, because of the pressure, because of the tactic move I made on the end, and because also, because I not see on the live tracking what Maxim does, I was really unsure where I stay, and when I landed, I was still 3 km before the goal,
and I expected that Pierre came maybe fly-wise, so he can catch me, and I was really watching to the sky to try to see him, I packed my glider, I start walking fast, and I say okay, let's finish quickly, and when I realized that I'm in front, that I can win, it was so a good feeling.
It was a cool route this year. Okay, I lied, one final question. Do you have right now, in preparing for the X-Alps, do you or any of the other competitors part of your strategy? And what I mean is, are you marking anyone in particular, and in terms of how to prepare to beat them? You know, whether that be Benoit or Maxim, those that you feel are the biggest threats, do you change anything because of them? You know, I know in a World Cup you might have certain pilots that you definitely want to keep an eye on, in terms of where they are and what they're doing, but is that the same in adventure racing, or are you just focused on you?
Yeah, what I can see clearly is that they really have good skills in hiking for sure, in flying as well, in the team, but I realize that following the leader is very much easier than staying in the lead. Because leading means you have to think about options, you have to have a decision for a good option, and then you have to try, and always to think about it will work. And this needs a lot of energy and power, and as soon I go in the back, I can just follow the leaders, because the line is the best. And these are two games, I think. And to we analyzed the races when I was in the back,
and I started to think differently, and I realized that leading is much more work than following,
but for sure they can with a good follow, they can come close to the end, and with a bit of luck they can win, for sure. Because leading is one part, and controlling is the other part, and for me in a World Cup, for example, it's the best to control close to the goal, and then to push or to make a tactic, a risk to win the day. And as closer we come in the adventure race, as more and more it goes to this tactic, to control until the end, and then to risk more to win. Mm.
Chrigel, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. It's great to have you back on the show, and it was wonderful to relive so many of those special moments. Good luck in your preparations. Say hi to Thomas. I hope you put together a great team, and I know we'll all be super excited to watch you this June. But thanks, Chrigel. Appreciate it.
Thank you, Kevin. Thank you, everybody, and see you soon at the next race.
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