Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. In some ways, this is kind of an emergency episode. In case you were asleep at the wheel for the last 40 days, you may not have seen what went down in Pakistan recently. I'm sure most of you did. But Aaron Durogati went over there with a few friends, and the purpose of the mission was to just have adventures. And they were using their paragliders to get up into super high terrain in the Himalayas. and then ski and mountaineer ice climb and I'm kind of a troll of his so I was watching all the stuff go down on Instagram went out to U.S. Nationals and boom on next contest. I see that he has done a 285k FAI triangle in the Himalaya by himself.
Apparently, the end of that was pretty scary, which you'll hear about, and then the whole world went, "What?" And then two days later, he went even bigger, 312 K FAI triangle. So I pinged him on WhatsApp and said, "My god, dude, what in the world just happened? You got to share your story." And he called me right afterwards from the Islamabad Airport, four o'clock in the morning, and I had just landed a goal and in Chelan after a really fun day of flying, and he just had me in stitches. It was unbelievable, and so I said, "Man, we got to record this." So here you go, here is Aaron's journey, 40 days in the Himalaya, biggest mountains in the world, having some proper adventures.
Enjoy Aaron.
Uh, you called me a couple days ago from the Islamabad airport. I was—I had just landed at Goal and, uh, at the Nationals. And, man, every—I hung up the phone and everybody's going, "God, who was that?" Man, you sounded really excited. Um, you know, I—I'm one of your biggest fans. I've been following your last, uh, this crazy adventure you just had in Pakistan, and so I kind of knew what was going down. And then, at the end, you had these two monster flights, which we'll talk about, but let's start at the beginning. What—what was the mission of this thing to begin with for those who aren't like me and followed you like crazy because your videos of this, you know, just stuffing it into these coals and skiing pow was, uh, man, what an epic adventure.
So, what was the—I know this was your first time to Pakistan, right? Yeah, it was the first time. Yeah, And it was all, I mean, did you—I know you didn't go over there. I don't think specifically to send these big flights like you did at the end, right? It was all this kind of mixed route stuff, yeah.
Yeah, actually, I start for Pakistan with a very open mind and with the idea of doing combos with the glider and the ski. But I didn't have a specific goal because I didn't have been there before. And so I don't know the place and I don't know which weather we were going to get. So I was just going for an adventure and yeah, I was just living somehow day by day what the weather and the condition and my body let me let me do.
And where did you have a base? Where did you start from? basically
Um, actually I was not alone. We was like four. It was, uh, me, uh, Fabi Buhl, which is a super strong alpinist climber, and in the last, uh, three years he is spending really a lot of time of flying and his level is, uh, amazing good for flying such a short time, but it's short in matter of years, but it's he already collect a lot of flying hours, so he's, uh, quite experienced already and he has been in Pakistan already last year with the Frenchies with Antoine and, uh, so he the place, um, and then was, uh, Will, uh, Will Seem, it's a British, uh, climber, um, working as a mountain mountain guide in Chamonix, which gets really into paragliding as well.
And then it was Jake Holland-Coles, which is also like a very, very good pilot with the all-rounder, alpinist, skiing, and he does professionally video, video maker is his job. So he was taking footage and recording the things. And uh, basically, um, yeah, I decided last year to, to spend these, uh, about 40 days, bit less than 40 days in Pakistan and, uh, yeah, as I say at the beginning, I was just wishing to have, uh, adventure there and see what's possible to do, the see the mountains, see the place and take the best out of fit and
Were you up in the Honza Valley? Were you kind of where Antoine and a lot of these in Tom and have kind of made their their base? Is that is that where is that? Just the logical place to be? Yeah,
exactly uh we was in karimabad exactly which is uh in the honza valley north of gilgit which and the Baltoro Glacier, very close to Nanga Parbat, so K2.
Actually, just above Karimabad is the Rakaposhi. It's the biggest mountain. It's 7,800. Then it's Ultar. It's Hunza Peak, just behind the Baturasar Glacier. um, Eastberg Glacier. It's just somehow this Karimabad, it's some in a way you can, you can make a comparison with Chamonix, just, uh, yeah, I would say at least 10 times bigger for the way you can go in the mountain and
Did you spend quite a bit of time there just in the beginning? I know you guys had really bad weather to start off with, right? Yeah,
basically uh we We arrived there and it was the end of May. A group of three French guys was there before us. They had really poor weather.
Somehow like in the Alps in the spring. So, you know, you can have some amazing good days, but as well, you can have a lot of precipitation and bad weather. So that was the situation when we arrived. Also, down in the valley was quite cold, and it was having snowfall almost every day. So, at the beginning, actually, we was—I mean, me, I was not disappointed because I like also to hike, but the very beginning we couldn't fly. And yeah, you know, after like one week, 10 days of always really unstable weather, you start to be a little bit, uh, wondering if it's gonna change.
But, uh, from the other side, I think it was just perfect because, uh, uh, we did from the very beginning, uh, a very good acclimatization. So we hike up on the the very first we did it was, um, um, 4,300 meter. There was like a, um, a kind of a hut, uh, for the for the farmers, uh, with the animals, and we went to sleep up there. So the valley floor, it's like 2,000 meter, so it's quite interesting. You have like valley floor on 2,000 and then you have mountain basically 8,000 meter high. So the the gap is huge, which is way more different than in India, where I have been.
There was also a 7,000-meter-plus mountain, but the valley floor was already 7,000. So, actually, it doesn't feel so big, the old stuff. In Karimabad, the Hunza Valley, it's exactly the opposite. You are basically on the ground, on the valley floor, and then you can go really, really high. so uh basically yeah we start on that kind of relief
Must be so striking, yeah.
So we start to sleep the first night on 4,300 and then, uh, uh, then on four, four five, four, four six and then again, or something like four, two and then up to four, five and then on five thousand, I don't remember exactly, but I think we spent all in all about 10 nights between, uh, yeah, four and five thousand meter and, uh, yeah, I think that was really important for me because I had experience in altitude, but the last time when I was going high I got also this mountain sickness because I did a very bad acclimatization.
I was thinking I'm good and strong and, and I get really punished from the mountain and so this time I was a little bit more clever, also a little bit older, so this time, I took my time and it worked out really good, because I actually didn't want to use oxygen a little bit for an ethic way, and a little bit also because it's just something more which you have to carry. which you will have to care about, which you will have to fit into the harness, um, and I want to be like free, free from this, from this bottle in a way.
So I had the chance to, to, to got, uh, uh, oxygen bottle from, um, basically through, um, an American guys, uh, who has the oxygen bottle there, uh, Brett Sanders, uh, but I basically didn't, didn't use it and I think I, I have it in my room, um, and after I don't know two weeks, or after I finished my acclimatization and I felt like I'm good, I, I just give it back to Manzur, which is the driver, uh, the historical driver, he has been in touch with all the paraglider which has been in Hunza Valley and he's caring about the things there.
So I give this back because, uh, Tom might need it, uh, for his project on the, on the Baltoro and so I was free of this and I felt really good and the first flight actually I did, it was a 200 kilometer flight with almost a 40, actually was like a 40 plus average speed, so and I went up on four, on seven thousand meter, seven thousand something, um, and I felt good, my body was good on that altitude and from that moment on I realized, okay, I can fly big here.
The reason why that day I didn't flew bigger, it was because it was really nasty, it was, uh, uh, really a lot of wind. It was coming, um, some, some storm. And so I went landing after 200 kilometer. Um, but there, uh, in that day, I realized I can fly big there. If I will be, uh, keen to take, uh, the, the somehow also the risk and the commitment you, you have to take to go or really big in Pakistan. So basically on this 200-kilometer flight, I realized that the place gives the chance to fly big.
But at the same time, right after this flight, the weather turns to be again unstable. And so, yeah, I went back to do combos with ski.
And the other very interesting thing is that in Karimabad, but there is some culture of flying in the matter that there was a pilot flying there in the early 90s, end of the 80s. And it was used to take off in a place called Eagle Nest, where you can get there more or less by car. But because we had this really bad weather, or bad, let's say, unstable weather, we figured out that for us it would be better to use the very early morning to do our combo because yeah, mostly around noon it was unflyable anymore and so we find a place where we could already at 9 o'clock 10 to 9 but really low like 2,900 meters just 400 meters above the place we used to sleep
And this place was magic. It was working every time we went there. It was very little altitude, but you take off, you fly to a east exposed little cliff where we saw all the time the bird thermaling, and then from there you connect on a big wall which you go up by soaring, and then from From there, you fly towards Ladyfinger, and then you get a good altitude, like five, five and a half. Later in the days, from there, we reach already 6,000 meters. So, yeah, all to say that the very first part of the trip was acclimatization and more mountaineering stuff.
off, then switching for, uh, like combos with the paraglider, using the glider to go up and ski, and also sleep up. Still, we in the middle part of the trip, we were still sleeping up to keep the acclimatization. And then, well, and then I get really sick, and I was super lucky because I get sick when the weather was terrible, and so I didn't lose anything. But I was so sick that the night I was in the tent at 5000 meter, and I get so bad, I probably was never so bad in my life, or at the moment I didn't felt I had another so bad night in my life is
It food, food poisoning. What did you get? I
think food poisoning, but in combination with, uh, probably altitude, because I didn't eat any different than the other guys, but I'm definitely more sensible on my stomach. And already in the morning after the dinner, I felt not too good, but my mistake was that... But sometimes at home, I don't feel so good. And then I do some sport and I get better. And I was wishing to have stayed there. And so I start for this hike up to 5,000 meters to sleep up. My idea was to spend two nights in the mountain with the bad weather. Because anyway, I couldn't do anything else.
So I was thinking, okay, download some podcast. cast, and I was ready to sleep two nights in bad weather up in the mountain, but basically when I arrived close to 5,000, I already vomited first time. Then we decided with my friends to put the tent, and from there on it was a horror the whole night, really switching between vomiting and and shaking from the cold and vomiting and not getting air from, from, I was not vomiting anymore because I didn't have anything in my body, but the body would still want to eject something. So it was horrible.
That's so bad in a tent too, when you have to get up and go somewhere and it's the worst.
Oh, well, I didn't go anywhere. I vomited in the tent. Oh my god, yeah, no, it was really ugly. It was definitely ugly, and I was just wishing the next day to have some decent weather to at least fly down. I had my little glider and done because I didn't have any power anymore. I felt like even lifting my arm was like a mission, but of course, the weather was terrible, so it was not playable. So from there, we ski down like, yeah, a little bit, but not too much because the site we went skiing was not much snow.
So after, I had to walk on a moraine to get lower, and then eventually the weather was still ugly, but I say myself, "Okay, okay," I have to fly because I will not manage to get down. I was like 20 times lower than the guys. And even this felt to me like super hardcore. I went like 10 minutes walking, 20 minutes staying, 10 minutes walking. And like this, I decided to take off. And yeah, I survived the flight, which was not that horrible, also not that nice. and managed down the valley, uh, called Mansur, which picked me up on on a jeep and, uh, and then I spent, I think, three days in the bed, not moving, basically.
And, and I think this cost me like about five kilo or something like this. After this, I was looking really something like after the rickside and and yeah without
without the smiles, oh
My god, that sounds miserable. And then the funny thing was that as soon as I start to feel better, the weather start to be better as well. And so basically, uh, I had one day where I was like, "So okay, good." And the day after, I I went for flying and I fly this 285. And then from there on start like a session of really good days and big action from my side, like the 285, which was actually a 300. But on the very last thermal on Hisberg Glacier, it was already sunset and I was on 5,000 something meter.
And I was expecting to close the triangle easily, but I get really splashed down from the from the katabatic wind from the glacier, and my tactic was at the beginning I stayed to the mountain, then I say, "Okay, I will go in the middle of the valley," because normally you get this very good lift when from all side it's sinking air, but not, it was just, uh, flight ratio one two, two and a half, something like this. And in the end I land in a super ugly place, now in a gorge with the river below, and on the side the slope was maybe 50 degrees, and yeah, I kind of managed to land safe on before getting in really trouble down to the river, so I land a little bit higher, and then while I walk, I walk back to the, I walk couple of hours to get out from there, which was already night, and, uh, yeah, then I, I got to the village, and and then I did one day rest, and And then the day after, I think, or two days after, I went for the best combo I did there, or the most scenery, let's say, on Kulmi Tower.
I skied a super nice slope, and then I managed to take off on the end of the slope and then fly out the flat glacier. But then it was still early in the day, so I said, okay, why not? I took a thermal and I went to ski for the second time, so I did two laps.
so
What are you, what when you're doing the combos? What gear is that compared to were you on? I saw pictures, you were on your X-Ops kit, more or less. Well, your X-Ops wing and then a Woody Valley harness for the big flights, but what were you doing for the combos, yeah?
so for the combos it's I learned a lot from Fabi, actually, because he had experience from last year in Pakistan with the setup. So I'm flying combo many, many years here in the Alps, but I was not used to fly really long. And for some combo, we was flying like two hours, one and a half hours. So basically the harness... Just to get up? Yeah, or to get on the place, sometimes was some little cross cross country flight to get on the on the place you want to ski. So basically, I had a string harness; I had two option. I have like a string harness and something like a little bit more um structure than a string harness harness from Booty Valley, which is called Transalp 2, and the prototype of a string harness from Booty Valley.
And the very interesting part is that when you fly on the string harness and you have a backpack, the backpack, it's very uncomfortable to have it on yourself. So what we basically do is to put like an express, so this which you use for climbing, the webbing with the carabiners, um, on the carabiners of the the of the harness, and then you click the carabiner of the express basically on your shoulder spread of the backpack. So once you take off and you are comfortable that it's not too turbulent or whatever, you just take out your hands from the from the shoulder strap of the heart of the backpack, and then basically the backpack slide below your seat, and then the the backpack, it's just hanging below you, and you don't have it anymore on yourself, so you don't have to wait anymore.
And the additional plus is that you you can easily take the ski from the side of the backpack and put your ski on by flying, because you don't want to land in steep terrain without ski. And in general, you don't want to land on glacier without ski for the travesty. So with this system, you basically take the ski, put the ski on and go landing wherever you want.
So you're taking off normal foot launch with the skis kind of hanging off your back and then they're hanging beside you when you're flying and you click in? Yeah. So you're taking off with your ski boots?
Yes, yes, yes, definitely.
Oh, wow. So it's full AT, you know, standard Alps AT gear for, you know, what you tour in.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Okay. So basically
it's like a mountaineering backpack. On the side of it are my skis, and inside everything I need. So like, I was used to have an ice screw, my icex crampons, and some little food, some bar, and some stuff. And once in the air, yeah, I let slide basically my backpack below my ass. I think when you see the video of my might, it may be easier to understand. So when you fly, then you have the backpack below your ass, and then you, you take your ski and you clip first the front part, and then the difficult thing is to clip the the, yeah, the behind thing.
And to do that, I have like, um, um, a foot strap which I use also for flying like the guys are using in acro to hold the feet, and like this, I'm pressing my keyboard there, and and then I get flipped in it. sounds more difficult that what it's
Not that bad, uh, because I, yeah, in your videos, you're, you know, you're landing up in these coals and stuff with skis on, and I wasn't sure how you were accomplishing that. I've never seen that done. That's a, that's a cool, that's neat, yeah.
It's, it's really, it's really good. It's some technique I used a little bit different already on the Eiger tour, the winter edition, um because the guys there, I think I was the only one taking out ski and be able to really, uh, use the speed bar, um so basically I can take take out ski, put in ski in the air. Yeah.
Wow. I did it.
Wow. Are you using like the Dynafit, you know, toe pieces that just have the two little, you know, the two kind of the standard for the toes on the ski boots? You know, like the really sharp little clips?
Yeah. Well, actually, I used... You know the Dynafit invented? I didn't use the bindings from Dynafit. I use the one from SkiTrap, which is the only bindings which has a different system. So all the bindings, the ski touring bindings, ATK or Dynafit or whoever else, has the system that the pin, once you go to lock, they close. And they close at the same time, left and right together. together, um, the ski trap, it's done different. It's the one most of the guy use also in the team of workup, and you have to press it and then it doesn't make a click, but it's just by releasing he's closing and left and right, they work, uh, uh
alone but
It, I was the only one having the ski ski trap. Fabi has some 80k bindings, and it works as well, I think. In my opinion, that the the ski trap, it's a little bit easier, but then the only, let's say, issue I have that my bindings, it's super hard to get in the the heel because I have, uh, yeah, bad experience with, uh, weak binding, and I don't want because I risk my life already by steep skiing quite a lot with opening bindings. So I have a building which is really hard to get the heel in, that's why I need this, this webbing on the foot strap to to press press myself into the, into the, uh, behind part of the building.
And then what, what kind of snow conditions were you getting? Are you guys digging pits? Is it pretty high avalanche risk? Was it proper pow skiing or was it just kind of more for the adventure? I mean, was the skiing good or was it kind of sloppy and, um, you know, more of an adventure skiing? Ian?
We had actually everything. We had super good snow, like cold powder.
And we had like spring snow, like fear. And we had also like this wet bit heavy, warm cold powder. So we had a bit of everything. But in general, I would say the quality was middle to high. Definitely not bad. Anything that I skied was bad snow.
And you were, so if I got this right, so you're taking off around 2,000 meters and you're kind of combo ridge soaring, thermaling, benching up, you know, flying some XC to get up into the 5,000 and higher. How long are the runs you're, I mean, are you skiing back down to kind of valley base or how much snow, what were the kind of snow levels in terms of the elevations? yeah
these huge long
coolies, you guys are skiing the
snow line was, uh, quite high. It's like about 4,002 to 4,400. 4,000 was the the the lowest, I think. Um, so there was not long run, so it was, I think, the longest like a thousand meter, but, uh, yeah, but there was, it was not really about how long you ski, but the quality and, uh, uh, the whole thing together, you know, like, uh, one of the line I ski with, uh, Fabi, it was on Ultra Glacier, um, and there basically we landed on a, not really tiny, but like kind of balcony because the big slope was below some huge Sarah so I decided to land on the side quite cover by some rock we landed there actually after I
Don't know, like 10 minutes we are packing the stuff, a huge avalanche go down, so actually we will have landed in the slope. We might have been dead, so we... We are there actually happy that the avalanche went, because normally after one avalanche you are safe. So making our way to the slope and then ski this slope, really, really nice and amazing scenery. And then this slope ended on a flat or quite flat glacier hanging over a thousand meter cliff. So you can't anyway ski further, you know. And so basically we took off the glider again and take off again.
And that day we fly to the other side of the valley to Barbara Peak. And then we went skiing really nice powder. And that day I landed, I top landed exactly on the summit of this mountain, probably just a little bit below. And then we had amazing powder skiing on the upper part and then an amazing fear on the lower part. so what do you want more in your life that's
Just unbelievable. You said there's kind of a culture of flying there for, for many decades, and obviously there's a huge culture of climbing and mountaineering, but what about ski touring? Were you running into other people that are, you know, making turns in this, in this part of the world? It's not something I've heard of there much, if at all.
yeah actually Actually, there are some French guys which have skied in this area. And anyway, when we were there, the Rakaposhi is the highest mountain, just very close to Karimabad. And then it's the Diran. It's 7,200 meters. And this mountain was already a few teams tried to ski down from Diran. but they didn't because of avalanche risk and stuff. And just now, Leo and another French guy, I don't remember exactly how he calls, they went for D-Run, and Leo was the Freeride World Champion five years ago, I think, before.
And they went for D-Run, and I think they skied down four days ago or something like that. Wow. So it's not much done, but some guys have skied there. And the French guys last year, the group of Antoine, it was Francois Ragolski, it was Fabi, and I don't know the others. They were also there doing combos and they skied. So like on Barbara Peak, they were skiing, definitely. completely, and this line, which we did, me and Fabi, which I was just thinking about, that probably, no, almost for sure, no one has been there before, uh, on Kulmi Tower, maybe.
The French guys was king this line before I, like, one month before I was there, uh, not really in a combo way, or let's say they fly inside, they make camp, and then there was some couloirs there. I don't know exactly which one, but maybe also the one I ski.
So, yeah, I mean, still very few people, but there it is.
It's being done.
Aaron, when you're, you know, before you went, did you put a ton of research into, you know, lines that, you know, Did you have a lot of lines laid out that you, you know, really wanted to ski if you had the right conditions, you know, just looking at Google earth and maps and that kind of thing. I'm just, I'm not aware of what kind of resources you have there. You know, I wouldn't imagine there's an avalanche center putting out daily. I wouldn't think maybe there is, but you know, putting out daily condition reports and that kind of thing, or is it the kind of stuff, are you just getting there and you're kind
It's kind
of on-siting depending on the day. So it's just kind of red-pointing everywhere. You're just, okay, we'll try this today?
Yeah, exactly. Okay. Basically, I didn't even watch Google Earth where Karima Bhatt is.
Okay, so you have some success with the combos. You get sick as hell and it's awful. shuffle and then you have this, this two 85, which, you know, you put up on X contest and the whole world went, holy shit. Are you kidding me? It sounds like kind of a dicey end, but before we get to the next one that, you know, that you had a day off and then you had the really big one. Then you and I talked about this the other day when you, when you called me from the airport, but give people some perspective who haven't been to the Himalayas. What are the, What are the main differences between flying in the Alps? Is it, is it stronger? Is it scarier? Is it, uh, you know what, paint the paint the setting for us, because obviously we all know it's huge.
I just can't imagine what your brain was trying to process, you know? And the altitudes, of course, are really high, but I'd love to just know—I think people would love to know, you know, is this a place that if you, you know, are a pretty skilled pilot, what should you know before going to Pakistan? What can you expect?
So for me, like the flying itself in terms of strengths of the thermal and the turbulence, it's very, You can compare it quite one-to-one to flying in the Alps in the spring, by by strong conditions. So, um, I spoke with, uh, Brett Sanders, who has way more experience than me there, and he think the place is quite easy to fly. I mean, like the thermal, the thermal are not turbulent and stuff like this. To me, I think at least the flight I had there was for sure more on the strong side, uh, of of, uh, alpine day, but but it wasn't like nasty or or really bad.
Uh, definitely the altitude give you a little bit an extra speed, but this you don't really feel like I didn't felt that my reaction has to be really faster. Or to me, the flying himself, the sportive side of flying was quite similar as flying in the Alps. What is really different in Pakistan is that you are really by your own and the commitment you take sometimes it's not Not the old flight, but there are some parts where you have to make this step, let's say, in the dark.
Yeah, that's more the challenge.
Because landing, let's say you land in an easy place. Maybe you walk a couple of days or you will have to find another takeoff or wait a day for taking off again and get out of it. But there are also places where without a middle to high alpine experience, you will probably not survive the next hours because the glaciers are huge and the things related to the glacier are big as well, like pravacis, xerox, stuff like this. So to me, it's more, uh, it was more this like the real adventure side of going in places where you know, more or less, that, uh, every decision you take, it's gonna make your more or less your future, so in the good and in the bad way.
So I didn't feel like I was flying on full-on risk, like, uh, I, I felt like I, I was having quite a buffer because I didn't want to go back home, you know, um, but Yeah, I think the dimension there, it's really big and you feel, uh, really small. Yeah, this, this is more the thing when
You, when you woke up and you know, the weather starts starts getting better. When you woke up, you'd had the 200k flight that was, the weather was bad. And then you, you, you woke up this day. I don't know if you saw it coming in advance, you know, if you—oh, okay. But did you have some kind of a plan like that in mind, or did you just start flying and then suddenly it was one of these things where, okay, this day is giving it to me on a platter, I have to take advantage of it? And you know, and it all came together. I guess what I'm saying is, how—how much of it was planned versus how much just happened? I mean, because 285, you know, even in the Alps, that takes some planning. You know, you and I tried it in Anthels that day. You know, you got to think about the launch and the time and the route.
And, you know, it's a lot of ground to cover.
Yeah.
It was not much planning, to say. Say, um, for sure I did for myself some turn point to. I was like scouting map, looking at the maps, the orientation of the valleys and, uh, making on my exit exit track some turn point to have an idea more or less where to go. But mostly I was, uh, actually, actually flying the sky and actually both big flight I did. Actually, I did three flight quite big, which I'm quite proud of. And and I change plan by flying.
So by flying I see different the sky better in one direction and I follow, I follow the sky and I follow the mountain I can see because actually I'm still not very good in planning and so I tried to plan a bit but it was mostly following my flow of the day. And about the weather, really there, we already from the beginning we decide to or decide not that we decide but we find out that we have just to open this the eyes and look the sky, uh, how it developed.
And I was really happy with myself because there was also days where I didn't went flying, uh, either combo or stuff, um, because I had this feeling. But to me today it's not good because I was looking at the cloud, I was looking at the sky and I say I don't go flying and in fact for For example, those two days, also the other guys went up on the takeoff, but then they didn't fly. So it was more, yeah, the forecast was not a real forecast in a way. Really? So
it's really just kind of just looking up and deciding if this is the day?
Yeah, kind of. Yeah, kind of this. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, I would think that mountains that big, even on the low wind days, like you said, with the glaciers being so big and the valley system so long and so massive, were valley winds a big issue? You said the katabatics, I would think, would be really strong sometimes, but what was the wind like to deal with? ask
Well, like, um, so we find out the rules, which Fabio already knows from the year before, that once on Rakaposhi start to, um, uh, pouring some rain or snow, it's immediately time to go land immediately, because it was like 10 times stronger than a strong wind day in the Alps. So, once on this mountain was getting some precipitation, it gets super crazy strong wind down in the valley, like amazingly strong, like even, I mean, part of the dust, but almost the stone, the little stone was flying.
So, so this was a thing we would learn from the beginning by looking at the sky and seeing and seeing in real time what's happening down in the valley.
But generally on the good days, like the days I fly big, it was not much wind. It was not even much wind on 6,000 meter plus. and um, and yeah, the glacier does wind but in the afternoon, so you will have to find yourself in the good place in the afternoon. So if you are like higher than this cold air, which is pouring down, you are fine. If you get in this flow, you are really, you are really in a bad situation, and and that was the key of my 312-kilometer flight because actually it was in a way similar.
But in the end, I decided to fly a parallel valley where the glacier was a little bit lower. And thanks to this, I think I managed to close the triangle because the fly of the 285, I got this bad experience. And so on the 300 something, I fly another valley for the glacier. It's just way lower. And I didn't get any katabatic wind from it. And I fly all the way back to Karimabad. um
how how
Do you, how do you deal with what's in your head now, going forward? I can't imagine what's, what's in your mind, you know, the, the, the, the bigness, the what you've just seen, uh, you know, and the style that you saw, because you did both these flights by yourself. Um, you know, you saw the mountains of Pakistan in a way that really nobody has. I mean, people have flown there and seen, you know, bits of it like you have, but um, I don't even know what this question is. It's, it's how I can't imagine, um, what's in your mind now. I mean, you saw something that is just totally remarkable, and I'm sure very hard to articulate.
Yeah.
well, I feel myself, uh, super lucky to have this chance and and to have done it a little bit also, how to say, yeah, happy with myself that my my brain and my willing bring me so far and also and also quite proud of myself in a way, proud, yeah, and the other way, maybe Maybe it was a little bit stupid, but, um, as I told you already, actually the big flight I did after my crash, which I had, and, uh, and it was quite amazing doing this flight with the pain I had.
So yeah, I really want,
let's talk about that again. I afraid what, what, when, when was the crash and what, what happened? basically the day
the last
combo I did on the Gulmi Tower, which was perfect, and I skied two times this slope and it was super great. Everything I fly then to Karimabad in the village and I went for landing in a place I was landing already often.
So, a place I know, any really super sketchy, dangerous place for landing. And also, the day was going to die, so was no valley wind, strong no thermal, so I just went for landing. And actually, the the crash was not very spectacular. I just arrived, I have to land a little bit uphill, so I slow down my glider, let latitude, and going for a nice landing. But probably in this moment, I got little tailwind, I guess. And so the flare, it didn't happen as I planned it's gonna happen, and I land a little bit hard.
Definitely, if I will have whatever protector, uh, on my back, on my ass, nothing will happen. But I was without anything below myself, and and I hit a stone with my back, so at the beginning, I was thinking that probably it's broke because it was really painful, really, really painful, but then I was there anyway by myself, so what should I do? I start to pack my glider and start to walk, and by walking, I felt it was painful, but, but okay, so maybe it's not broken, and went to to my room where I was staying, and the guys, they was up in the mountain,
so I was alone, and I didn't know, I took some painkiller and some cream, and I was thinking, okay, Okay, and then before going to sleep, I was thinking, what the fuck can I do tomorrow? It's going to be even more painful, but I want to fly. I want to fly. So I decided to hang my harness on the place I was sleeping and seeing how it's going to be to sit in the harness. Because at that moment, I couldn't sit on a chair. It was too painful. But my wish was that maybe in the harness, it's going to be better. And it was exactly like this, so I sit into the harness and it was way less painful than sitting on the bed, sitting on a chair, which was the worst anyway.
And so I say, "Okay, so then maybe it's possible," but I still have to think how I will make it to the takeoff because it was a thousand vertical meter hiking with 20 kilos, but I say, "Okay, now I go sleep and I will see." So I went sleep. In the morning, I stand up. I was in really pain, but I put my backpack on. I pull all the shoulder strap that it was not touching much my lower back and and somehow I hike up and and I arrive up. I took a one painkiller and then I say, "Okay, I'm gonna take off and see if it's gonna be too painful. I'm gonna go landing and if I not do too much painful, I'm gonna fly." And like this, I start flying.
I fly and fly and then when it was midday and I had like 30 something average speed, I say, "Okay, maybe I can keep on going." And anyway, I was anyway so far from the the place I took off that in a way I have to go back. So I keep on flying and, and then I keep on flying and flying, and then I had to change my plan because the sky was looking different than what I was planning to fly, and I find myself really low in a super high plateau where the valley floor was like about 4,000 meter, and I was 200 meter above the valley floor in completely shady sky.
No sun, like zero sun, just shadow everywhere and I was low and I was thinking, "Okay, now if I'm gonna land here, it's gonna be at least one week walking. My back super painful." Ah, it's gonna be time to find something, something to get up and I believe so much on this that it in the shadow and fully cloudy sky it built up like a little cloud. You know, when even when it's everything dark then you see that a little things start to build and I went to this little reach and I got the thermal. I get back on 6,000, and slowly I get out of this plateau, then back in the main valley, and then fly to Rakaposhi, and then I become really fast, because in that part of the flight, my average speed went around 28 or 27.
I just lose five kilometers an hour average speed, because I was just in surviving mode. But then I start to think, okay, but I can still make it on 300, And then I was not feeling any pain anymore; I was just in my flying flow, and I keep on flying, keep on flying, and it becomes better and better and better. And then it comes, this golden hours sun starting going down, and I'm keep on flying the fastest I can. Last thermal, it was actually, actually five and a half thousand on the sunset, sunset, like in front of me. And with this last air mile, I took the good valley without much katabatic wind and fly all the way back to Karimabad.
That was it.
It just must have been on the ecstatic moon. I can't imagine just the, just the emotions of all of that. were you after the big flight the 285 and you know you're you're doing all these flights without oxygen were you pretty wiped out were you tired no
No, I mean after one flight, I always—after a big flight, I take one day rest, um, from the 285 because actually, from the 285, I come back home, I think, midnight because, uh, yeah, because I got splashed down and I had to walk and and so I was coming back super late. So the next day, I did nothing and actually, uh, yeah, it was this tour de force of doing the combo, crashing, flying the 300, and then the day after I rest. But then the the day after, after I went again flying, and it was basically the day before I I have to leave to take the plane, and I say myself, "Okay, now you will go easy because you can't bomb out, uh, you have your back, it's sore, and just go easy." So I start with the idea of going easy, but then again, I came into to this super mood where I just fly, fly, fly.
But there, it it's a place where it's quite commitment with jumping over a reach, and then you have like a flat place here and there, I jump over this reach and and I say, "No, today it's not the day," and I turned back. So I just went over and I didn't felt like good and I just turned back, and I think that was really good because I think if you have to listen a little bit on yourself. And so I turned back and I say, "Fuck it, today I'm not gonna fly there," and I fly back. And then I was a little bit for like a five minute without a plan what to do, and then I just start again to follow the sky and a little bit the fie sector, and I'm flying towards basically south.
And then I get the first big present was to flying not really close, but close enough to see quite good the Nanga Parbat. So so basically totally a different route I fly of the two other big flight I did. So I I came as close as for me possible to see quite well the Nanga Parbat, and then on the way back, flying back towards my starting place, I had the option to do like a little bit of detour but safe and for sure easy to fly, or to fly towards the really big mountain Rakaposhi and Dira where it's one saddle on, I don't remember, but not too high, where where I could jump over and coming back in the valley of Karimabad.
But the downside of this option was that if I were fucked up, I would land in a place crazy wild. And so I have these two voices. Should I do, should I not? But then I say, yes, for sure you have to do it. So I went for it. I arrived to Dhiram Rakaposhi and I was way below the summit. It, but I felt like that I have good chance to pass over the sudden, and I went for it, and of course I didn't pass it. And then it was like this moment with really, really scaredness, because below me it's like huge massive glacier full of just, uh, crevices, and and I know if I will not find a thermal now, I will land there.
Plus, I will also miss the plane, that was for sure. I don't miss the plane, and and then, yeah, I got again like a very weak lift, like the weakest of the the whole month, and I thermal this like gold, and I make it just enough to pass with maybe 50 meter over the ridge. And being on the other side, that was maybe, yeah, maybe, maybe was the biggest emotion of the whole trip, passing this ridge.
And that fly was, let's say, just 230 kilometers, but it was full of emotion.
Wow. So that was the last one. So after the 312, there was another one. Yeah. You're insatiable.
Didn't you ever want to just go to the valley and drink beer and call it good? Well, in
Pakistan, you can't drink beer, ah?
Of course, yes. Uh, that's right.
Um, so 40 days, it sounds like the adventure wasn't over even when it was supposed to be over. It was quite an epic even to get to the the the airport where he called me. Where do you take it from here, man? Is uh, I'm sure you're back with your family and they're very happy to have you home, but uh, how do you, how do you deal with the—I've been calling it lately—the mirage of success? You know, that that okay, we've finally done as much as we need to do and we can back off, but I know that's not your style. So what's, what's next? Well,
Um, now I, yeah, actually, what's next? It's to get, uh, to get, get in shape and not having pain, uh, my back. Uh, once I come back home, I, uh, straight to the doctor and, uh, luckily he say, I'm like crazy lucky that I didn't go my back because, uh, it's, I have like, uh, half of my back. It's black, black and violet.
Yeah, yeah, so well, the first thing it's now to get, uh, to get fit again, but, uh, in my head, it's now full-on competition mode because, uh, I, I want now to compete and, uh, uh, the very next, uh, thing, which I don't know, I really hope I can do, it's the competition I organized with Paul together, this High Can Fly Saliva High Can Fly trophy, which is in my home place, and it's my race. So this is gonna happen now in two weeks, the 16th of July, and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna prepare, prepare myself for the Dolomiti Superfly, and then to the Chamonix Mont Blanc Air Tour.
And then I'm really looking forward to come in your place to compete and compete. Yeah, we're
looking forward to your talk. I can't wait. I'm sure you've got something already put together, but I hope you show us some of this Pakistan footage. Yeah, for
sure. Incredible. And then I'm going to go back on the classical competition. And I really would like to win a third World Cup Superfinal. And this year it's going to be in Mexico. And I think I like the place quite a lot. Yeah, Valle is fantastic.
I can't wait to race with you there. That'll be great. Yeah,
let's say now I'm switching totally now from the adventure mode, which was from the beginning of the year till now. Even though I did some competition, like just before Pakistan, I was in Slovenia. I did super nice competition, not crazy high level, but it went really good for me. I won it, but I love to compete in Slovenia. I love to compete in Tolmin. And, uh, but a part of this, uh, I was more in adventure and combo, uh, mood, but now basically, yeah, the second part of the summer is for me now competition and, yeah.
let's see
the, I wanted to ask you just one more thing about Pakistan. We jumped off to there to the future, but bring us back to to Pakistan. You, you mentioned the other day when we were chatting that, but the two days, the two big ones, the weather was good, but it wasn't great. You felt like there's much bigger potential there to be had. Talk about that a little bit.
Yeah. So I'm sure that the days I was flying, there was really good days, but there was not perfect days. Uh, because, uh, on the 285, I had a very slow beginning and then, uh, a fast middle and end part. Um, on the 300 kilometer flight, I had a very good start. Like, uh, the first, uh, one third of the flight was really fast, but then I get—basically, I, I could bomb out three times and my, I was in surviving mode for more than two hours.
And then, towards the end, was again fast and I make 312, so I'm quite sure that in a good day, in a really good day, with, um, with experience I have there now, I could would really go for a 350 to 370 kilometer. But at the same time, what I was also saying, also with the friends, is the question is if really Pakistan is the place for going record, or it's better to go in Pakistan, just not looking the numbers and going for adventure.
And then the numbers come anyway by themselves. you know, so I don't know if it's right to, um, I mean right, it's not the right word, but I don't know if, if it's really makes sense to speak about, uh, 350, 370, or even 400 kilometer in Pakistan because it, it's a, it's a place for adventure, I think, and, and not only for thinking, like, for For example, for me, Brazil, I have been twice and I flew the 500 kilometer, which was a goal of mine. And there, really, it was just about number for me. It was, for sure, the flying itself, it's cool.
But I was there because I won 600. I mean, the first time I won 500 and I did it. But then the second time I won 600. And I was not much looking about the beauty of the flying and the place, but more about the numbers. So maybe for me, I want to keep, I don't know if I will go back in Pakistan, but maybe I want to keep this place at least with the idea to keep it for real adventure flying combos and not for chasing numbers. numbers, so yeah, this was I
Didn't I didn't realize you said the one place would be a week long walk out potentially. I, I didn't realize. I mean, obviously when people think of the Himalayas, they think of it as being quite remote, but I've also, I've also thought there's, you know, really a lot of villages, but I guess that's not at the upper, at the really high levels, you know, at the really high elevations. Then it just gets snow and ice, depends.
on the place like in the valleys, the main valleys, wherever you land, somehow you will get a ride or you will get out quite easy. Um, but for example, from Gilgit to to the Nanga Parbat, let's say, um, yeah, there is this kind of—it's not a real plateau, but it's it's kind of an island between two big valleys, and there, for example, it's nothing or the Hesburgh Glacier. I think it's like 70 or 80 kilometers long, and that's just a glacier, so there
it's definitely other dimension and like, for example, when I did the ix pier, uh, I took part two times, 214 and 216, 2014 and 2016. I, I really like it, the Pyrenees, because there was, they are way more wild than the Alps are. So in the Alps, it's really rare you fly longer than 10 minutes and you don't see a house or something, or a hut, or a trade, or something on On the Pyrenees, you might have flown 30 kilometers without seeing a trail or a hut or a house or a human.
But in Pakistan, you can fly really long without seeing anyone and anything. and uh yeah that's
Uh, yeah, I mean, I just... this, this, the, the contrast in the size and the scope of, uh, what you saw and what you did, just, just unbelievable, man. I'm proud of you. It's just incredible, incredible, and I'm glad you, you made it safely home. Um, you brought up the X-Pyr; we got to talk about that because that just went down. Uh, you were, you were busy, I'm sure, and didn't see. I don't know if you, how much of that you saw, but hell of a race this year. Uh, just unbelievable. They had a lot of everything. They did a lot of miles on the ground, everybody, uh, even Chrigel. Cause it was the first couple of days was pretty much a ground game. And then, uh, you know, they had a much different course. It kind of did this, this big up and around thing, uh, all around the, the big mountains and, uh, and man, I, Maxine looked like he had them at the end and then Chrigel did his thing and got them.
And it was just, God, he's—he's, uh, he really truly is, uh, special, isn't he? Just remarkable, uh, talent there. And yeah, the move he made on Maxine there at the end was—was, uh, was pretty extraordinary. I don't know how he knows how to do this kind of stuff, but he just taps in. Yeah, I
didn't I didn't follow, but uh, I just see now yesterday a little bit, of course, that he said Chrigel won and maxine and Remy. Yeah, I mean the level, it's you know by yourself super crazy high, but still Chrigel, I mean it's almost any other sport, man, in all the sport which has such a long legacy, so somehow it's just special. What you want to tell him?
Yeah, it's just... it really is special. Um, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is the X-elps; the application period just opened. The last time we talked, you weren't so sure. Where are you sitting now, uh?
Still on that point, I think I will do the application, but uh, but I, I don't know, like, it's not, honestly, it's not really about the race himself, but it's more about the around things which will, in the end, make me deciding if I do or so. Right now, I don't know. I, I'm for sure still willing to compete a lot, and that's why I'm gonna to go for the for the X-ray drops and all the other comps I do, um, but uh, about X-Alps, I'm, I'm still not sure yet.
Aaron, thanks for sharing this all with us. Uh, I'm sure all the people listening are really hoping you do, uh, as I am, of course. You're so fun to watch every single time, but I get it; we've done a lot too. So, uh, but congratulations on just an epic adventure. Uh, you, you blew all of our minds, and, uh, it's good to hear about it just right when you come home, so while it's all still fresh. But can't wait to see all the, all the videos and all the stuff you guys produced from this just insane trip. But glad you're safe, buddy. Glad you're home. Yeah.
thank you very much, Kevin. Thank you. And yeah, looking forward to see you on the Dolomiti Superfly, no? Are you coming in Europe?
Yes, I am. Yeah, we'll be there next month. I'm going to be supporting Ben and yeah, it'll be a fun, it'll be great fun. It'll be a good time. Yeah. We won't be racing at your pace, but it'll be really, you know, I've never supported anybody, so and Ben supported me four times, so I owe him. It's going to be, we'll have a blast. It'll be a
lot of fun. It's going to be.
Cool. Thank you very much. Thank you, buddy. Talk soon. If
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