Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of Cloud Based Mayhem. In some ways this is kind of an emergency episode. In case you were asleep at the wheel for the last 40 days, you may not have seen what went down in Pakistan recently. I'm sure most of you did. But Aaron Durogati went over there with a few friends and the purpose of the mission was to just have adventures. And they were using their paragliders to get up into super high terrain in the Himalaya and then ski and mountaineer and ice climb. And I'm kind of a troll of his, so I was watching all this stuff go down on Instagram. Went out to U.S. Nationals and boom, on next contest I see that he has done a 285K.
A 285K FAI triangle in the Himalaya by himself.
Apparently the end of that was pretty scary, which you'll hear about. And then the whole world went, what? And then two days later he went even bigger, 312K FAI triangle. So I pinged him on WhatsApp and said, my God dude, what in the world just happened? You've got to share your story. And he called me right afterwards from the Islamabad airport at 4 o 'clock in the morning. And I had just waved. I landed at Gol in Chelan after a really fun day of flying. And he just had me in stitches. It was unbelievable. And so I said, man, we've got to record this. So here you go. Here is Aaron's journey, 40 days in the Himalaya. The biggest mountains in the world, having some proper adventures.
Enjoy. Enjoy.
Aaron, you called me a couple days ago from the Islamabad. I was in the airport. I had just landed at Gol at the Nationals. And man, I hung up the phone and everybody's going, God, who was that, man? You sounded really excited. You know, I'm one of your biggest fans. I've been following your last, this crazy adventure you just had in Pakistan. And so I kind of knew what was going down. And then at the end you had these two monster flights, which we'll talk about. But let's start at the beginning. What was the mission? What was the mission of this thing to begin with for those who aren't like me and followed you like crazy? Because your videos of this, you know, just stuffing it into these coals and skiing pow was, man, what an epic adventure.
So what was the, I know this was your first time to Pakistan, right?
Yeah, it was the
first time. Yeah. And it was all, I mean, did you, you didn't go over there, I don't think, specifically to send these big flights like you did at the end, right? It was all this kind of mixed route stuff.
Yeah. Actually, I start for Pakistan with a very open mind and with the idea of doing combos with the glider and the ski. And then, but I didn't have a specific goal because I didn't have been there before. And so I don't know the place and I don't know which weather we were going to get. So I was just going for an adventure and. Yeah. I was just living somehow day by day, what the weather and the condition and my body let me, let me do.
And where, where did you have a base? Where, where did you start from?
Basically, actually, I was not alone. We was like four. It was me, Fabi Bull, which is a super strong alpinist climber. And in the last three years. He is. Spending really a lot of time of flying and his level is amazing. Good for flying such a short time, but it's short in matter of years, but it's he already collect a lot of flying hours. So he's quite experienced already. And he has been in Pakistan already last year with the French is with Antoine. And so he know the place.
And then was. He was. We will see him. It's a British climber working as a mountain guide in Chamonix, which gets really into paragliding as well. And then it was Jake Holland calls, which is also like a very, very good pilot with the other on the alpinist skiing. And he does professionally. Yeah. Video video maker is his job. So he was taking footage and recording the things. And basically, yeah, I decided last year to to spend these about 40 days, bit less than 40 days in Pakistan.
And yeah, as I say, at the beginning, I was just wishing to have adventure there and see what's possible to do. And yeah, as I say, at the beginning, I was just wishing to have adventure there and see what's possible to do. The the the mountain see the place and take the best out of it.
And were you up in the Hansa Valley, where you kind of where Antoine and a lot of these in Tom and have kind of made their their base? Is that is that is that just the logical place to be?
Yeah, exactly. We was in Karimabad exactly, which is in the Hunza Valley north of Gilgit, which is the, let's say, biggest town in the area. And close to basically the Skardu and the Baltoro Glacier, very close to Nanga Parbat. So K2 actually just above Karimabad is the Rakaposhi. It's the biggest mountain. It's 7800. Then it's Ultar. It's Hunza Peak. Just behind the Baturasar Glacier, Hesper Glacier.
It's just somehow this Karimabad, it's some in a way you can you can make comparison with Chamonix. Just yeah, I would say at least 10 times bigger for the way you can go in the mountain. Okay.
And did you spend quite a bit of time there just in the beginning? I know you guys had really bad weather to start off with, right?
Yeah, basically, we arrived there and it was the end of May. Some a group of three French guys was there before us. They had really poor weather somehow, like in the Alps in the spring. So, you know, you can have some amazing good days. But as well, you can have a lot of precipitation and bad weather. So that was the situation when we arrived. Also down in the valley was quite cold and it was having snowfall almost every day.
So at the beginning, actually, we was I mean, me, I was not disappointed because I like also to hike. But the very beginning was really bad. We couldn't fly. And yeah, you know, after like one week, 10 days of always really unstable weather, you start to be a little bit wondering if it's going to change. But from the other side, I think it was just perfect because we did from the very beginning a very good acclimatization. So we hike up on the very first we did. It was. It was 4300 meters.
There was like a kind of a hut for the for the farmer with the animals. And we went to sleep up there. So the valley floor, it's like 2000 meters. So it's quite interesting. You have like valley floor on 2000 and then you have mountain basically 8000 meters high. So the gap, it's huge, which is way more different than in India. Yeah. Has been. There was also 7000 meter plus mountain. But the valley floor was already 7000. So actually doesn't feel so big. The old stuff in Karimabad, the Hunza Valley, it's exactly the opposite. You are basically on the ground on the valley floor and then you can go really, really high.
So basically, yeah, we start on the
leaf. Must be so striking. Yeah.
So we start to sleep the first night on 4300 and then then on four or five or four, six. And then again, or something like four, two and then up to four, five and then on 5000. I don't remember exactly, but I think we spent all in all about 10 nights between four and 5000 meter. And yeah, I think that was really important for me because I had experience in altitude. But last time when I was going high, I got also this mountain sickness because I did a very bad acclimatization.
I was thinking I am good and strong and I get really punished from the mountain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was a little bit more clever, also a little bit older. So this time I took my time and it worked out really good because I actually didn't want to use oxygen a little bit for an ethic way and a little bit also because it's just something more which you have to carry, which you will have to care about, which you will have to fit into the harness. And I want to be. And I want to be like free, free from this from this bottle in a way. So I had the chance to to to go oxygen bottle from basically through an American guys who has the oxygen bottle there, Brad Sanders.
But I basically didn't didn't use it. And I think I have it in my room. And after I don't know, two weeks or after I finished my acclimatization and I felt like I'm good, I just give it back to Manzo, which is the driver, the historical driver. He has been in touch with all the paraglider, which has been in Hunza Valley, and he's caring about the things there. So I give this back because Tom might need it for his project on the. On the ball tour. And so I was free of these and I felt really good. And the first flight actually I did, it was 200 kilometer flight with almost 40.
Actually, it was like a 40 plus average speed. So and I went up on for 7000 meter, 7000 something.
And I felt good. My body was good on that altitude. And from that moment on, I realized, OK, I can fly big here. The reason why that day I didn't flew bigger, it was because it was really nasty. It was really a lot of wind. It was coming some some storm. And so I went landing after 200 kilometer. But there in that day, I realized I can fly big there if I will be. I can fly big. And I was really keen to take the the.
Somehow also the risk and the commitment you have to take to go really big in Pakistan. So basically on this 200 kilometer flight, I realized that the place give the chance to fly big.
But at the same time, right after this flight, the weather turns to be again unstable. And so. And so. So, yeah, I went back to do combos with ski.
And the other very interesting thing is that in Karimabad, there is some culture of flying in matter that there was a pilot flying there in the early 90s and of the 80s. And it was used to take off in a place called Eagle Nest, where you can get there more or less by car.
And that was the other very interesting thing that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that happened that And so we find a place where we could took off already at nine o 'clock, ten to nine, but really low, like 2,900 meters, just 400 meters above the place we used to sleep. And this place was magic. It was working every time we went there. It was very little altitude, but you take off, you fly to east exposed little cliff where we saw all the time the birds terminating.
And then from there, you connect on a big wall, which you go up by soaring. And then from there, you fly towards Ladyfinger and then you get a good altitude by five, five and a half. Later in the days. From there, we reach already 6,000 meters. So, yeah, all to say that the very first part of the trip was acclimatization and more mountaineering stuff. Then switching for like combos with the paraglider, using the glider to go up and ski and also slip up. Still, we in the middle part of the trip, we were still slipping up to keep the.
Acclimatization. And then, well, and then I get really sick and I was super lucky because I get sick when the weather was terrible. And so I didn't lose anything, but I was so sick that the night I was in the tent at 5,000 meter and I get so bad, I probably was never so bad in my life. Or at the moment. I didn't felt I had another. So bad night in my life.
Is it food, food poisoning? What did you get?
I think food poisoning, but in combination with. Uh, probably altitude because I didn't eat any different than the other guys, but I'm definitely more sensible on my stomach. And, uh, already in the morning after the dinner, I felt not too good. But. My mistake was that, uh, sometimes. At home, I don't feel so good. And then I do some sports and I get better. And I was wishing to have. In there. And, uh, so I, I start for this hike up to 5,000 meter to sleep up. My idea was to spend two nights in the mountain with the bad weather, because anyway, I couldn't do anything else.
So I was thinking, okay, download some. Podcast and, uh, I was ready to sleep. Two nights in bad weather up in the mountain. But, uh, basically when I arrived close to 5,000, I already vomit the first time. Then we decided with my friends to put the 10. And from there on, it was a horror. The all night really. Switching between vomiting, uh, uh, shaking from the cold and vomiting and not getting air from, from, um, I would say. I was not vomiting anymore because I didn't have anything in my body, but the body was still want to. Ajax something. So it was horrible.
Uh, so bad in a tent too, when you have to get up and go somewhere and, uh, it's the worst.
Oh, well, I didn't go anywhere. I vomited the time. Oh my God. Yeah, no, it was really ugly. It was definitely ugly. And..........
..
..............
snow so after i had to walk on a moraine to get lower and then eventually the weather was still ugly but i say myself okay i have to fly because i will not manage to get down i was like 20 times lower than the guys and even this felt to me like super hardcore i went like 10 minutes walking walking 20 minutes staying 10 minutes walking and like this i decided to take off and and yeah i survived the flight which was not that horrible also not that nice and managed down the valley uh called mansur which picked me up on on a jeep and uh and then i spent i think three days in the not moving basically and and i think this cost me life about five kilos something like this after this i was looking really something like after ixal
and yeah without
without the smiles oh
my god that sounds miserable and then the funny thing was that as soon as i start to feel better the weather start to be better as well and so basically uh i had one day where i was like so okay good and the day after i went for flying and i fly this 285 um and then from there on start like a session of really good days and big action from my side like the 285 which was actually a 300 but on the very last thermal on hisper glacier i it was a really good day and i was like oh my god i'm so happy i'm so happy i'm so happy i'm so happy the day was already sunset and i was on 5000 something meter and i was expecting to close the triangle easily but i get really splashed down from the from the katabatic wind from the glacier and my tactic was at the beginning i stayed to the mountain then i say okay i will go in the middle of the valley because normally you get this very good lift when from all side it's sinking air but not it was just a flight ratio one two two and a half something like this and in the end i land in a super ugly place now in a gorge with the river below and on the side the slope was maybe 50 degrees and yeah i kind of managed to land safe on before getting in really trouble down to the river so i land a little bit higher and then while i walk i walk back to the i walk couple of hours to get out from there which was already night and uh yeah then i i got to the village and and then i did one day rest and
and then the day after i think or two days after i went for for uh best combo i did there or the most scenery let's say on pulmi tower i ski a super nice uh slope and then i managed to take off on the end of the the slope and and then fly out the flat glacier but then it was still early in the day so i say okay why not i took a thermal and i went to ski for the second time so i did two laps
so
what are you what when you're doing the combos what gear is that compared to were you on i saw pictures you were on your X-Alps kit more or less well your X-Alps wing and then a woody valley harness for the big flights but what were you doing for the combos yeah
so for the combos it's i learned a lot from fabi actually because he had the experience from last year in pakistan uh with the setup so i'm flying combo many many years here in the alps but uh i was not used to fly really long and for some combo it was flying like two hours one and a half hours so basically the harness just to get up yeah uh or to get on the place sometimes was some little cross cross country flight to get from the from the place you want to skip uh so basically i had a string harness i had two option i have like a string harness and i had a string harness and i had a string harness and i had a string harness and something like a little bit more um structure than a string harness from woody valley which is called transalt 2 and the prototype of a string harness from woody valley and the very interesting part is that when you fly on the string harness and you have a backpack the backpack it's very uncomfortable to to have it on yourself so what we basically do it's to put like express so this which is used for climbing the webbing with the carabiners
on the carabiners of the of the harness and then you click the carabiner of the Express basically on your shoulder spread of the backpack so once you take off and you are comfortable that it's not too turbulent or whatever you just take out your hands from the from the shoulder strap of the heart of the backpack and then basically the backpack slide below your uh seat and then the the backpack it's just hanging below you and you don't have it anymore uh on yourself so you don't have to wait anymore and the additional plus is that you can easily take the ski from the side of the backpack and put your ski on by flying because you don't want to land in steep terrain without ski and in general you don't want to land on Glacier without ski for the privacy so with this system
you basically take the ski put the ski on and go landing wherever you want
so you're you're taking off normal foot launch with the skis kind of hanging off your back and then they're hanging beside you when you're flying and you you click in yeah basically you're taking off with your ski boots yes
yes yes definitely
oh wow so so it's full 80 you know standard Alps AT gear for you know what you tour in
yeah yeah exactly okay
and you're gonna be putting those out
mountaineering backpack uh on the side of it are my skis and inside everything I need so like uh I was used to have uh an ice crew uh my ice axe crampons and some little food some bar and some stuff and uh once in the air um yeah I let slide basically my backpack below my ass I think when you see the video of my it may be easier to understand so when you fly then you have the backpack below your ass and then you you take your ski and you clip first the front bar and then the difficult thing is to clip the the yeah the behind thing and to do that I have like um
a foot stretch which I use also for flying like the guys are using in Acro to hold the feet and like this I'm pressing my keyboard there and and then I get clipped in it sounds more difficult that what
it's not that bad because I yeah in your videos you're you know you're landing up in these coals and stuff with skis on and I wasn't sure how you were accomplishing that I've never seen that done that's a that's a cool that's neat
yeah it's it's really it's really good it's some technique I used a little bit different already on the tiger tour the winter edition um because the guys there I think I was the only one taking out ski and be able to really uh use the speed bar um so basically I can take out ski put in ski in the air um yeah
wow
wow are you using like the Dina fit you know uh toe pieces that just have the two little you know the two kind of the standard for for the toes on the on the ski boots you know that like the really sharp little clips yeah
well actually I you know the invented uh I didn't use a bindings from Dina fit I used the one from uh ski trap uh which is the only bindings which is a different system so all the bindings the skit ski touring building a ATK or Dina fit or whoever else has the system that um the pin once you go to lock they they close and they close uh at the same time left and right together um the ski trap it's done different it's the one most of the guy use also in the Timo workup and you have to press it and then it doesn't make a click but it's just by releasing he's closing and left and right they work uh uh alone but it I I was the only one having the ski trap Bobby has some ATK bindings and it works as well I think in my opinion that the the ski trap it's a little bit easier easier but then the only let's say issue I have that my bindings it's super hard to get in the the heel because I have uh yeah bad experience with the weak binding and I don't want because I risk my life already by steep skiing quite a lot with opening bindings so I have a building which is really hard to get the heel in um that's why I need this uh this uh webbing uh on the footstrap to to press myself into the in into the uh behind part of the building and
then what kind of snow conditions were you getting are you guys digging pits is it pretty high avalanche risk was it proper powers skiing or was it just kind of more for the adventure I mean was the skiing that was that that that that that that good or was it kind of sloppy and um you know more of an adventure skiing uh
we had actually everything we had uh super good snow like cold powder um and we had like spring snow like fear and we had also like this uh wet bit heavy warm uh old powder so we had a bit of everything but in general i would say the quality was middle to high definitely not bad anything that is key was bad snow and
you were so if i got this right so you're taking off around 2 000 meters and you're you're kind of combo ridge soaring thermaling benching up you know flying some xc to get up into the 5 000 and higher how how long are the runs you're i mean are you skiing back down to kind of valley base or how much snow what was what were the kind of snow levels in terms of the elevations were
these huge long
coolies you guys are skiing the
snow line was uh quite high it's like about uh 4 000 2 to 4 400 4 000 was the the the the lowest i think um so there was not long run so it was i think the longest like a thousand meter but uh yeah but there was it was not really about how long you ski but the quality and the the all things together you know like uh one of the line i ski with fabi it was on ultra glacier
and there basically we landed on not really tiny but like a kind of balcony uh because the the big slope was uh below some huge sterra so i decided to land on the side quite covered by some rock uh we landed there actually after i don't know like 10 minutes we are packing the stuff a huge avalanche go down so actually we will have landings in the next 10 minutes and then we will go down to the next 10 minutes and then we will go down to the next 10 minutes and then we will go down to the in the slope we might have been dead so we are there actually happy that the avalanche went because normally after one avalanche you are safe so making our way to the slope and then ski this slope really really nice and amazing scenery and then this uh this uh like slope ended on a flat or quite flat glacier uh hanging over a thousand meter cliff so you can't anyway ski for there you know and so basically we took out the glider again and and take off again and that day we fly to the other side of the valley to barbara peak and then we went skiing really nice powder and that day i landed i top landed exactly on the on the summit of this mountain probably just a little bit below and then we had amazing powder skiing on the upper part of the mountain and then we went skiing on the upper part of the mountain and then we went skiing on the upper part of the mountain and then we went skiing on the upper part of the mountain and then an amazing fear on the lower part so what you want more in life that's
just unbelievable you you said there's kind of a culture of flying there for for many decades and obviously there's a huge culture of climbing and mountaineering but what about ski touring were you running into other people that are you know making turns in this in this part of the world it's not something i've heard of there much if at all
yeah actually there are some french guys uh which uh have skin in this area and uh anyway when we was there um the so the racaposhi it's the highest mountain just very close to harimabad and then it's the dirham it's a 7 200 meter and this mountain was uh already few few teams tried to ski down from uh dirham but they deemed because of uh avalanche risk and stuff and just now uh leo uh leo and another french guy i don't remember exactly how he calls they went for dirham and leo was the freeride world champion five years ago before and they they went for for dirham and i think they they ski down four days ago or something wow
so it's not much done but some some guys have skin there and the french guys last year the the the group of antoine it was francois it was
fabi and i don't know the others they was also there doing combos and they ski so like on barbara peak it was king definitely and this line which we did me and fabi which i was just thinking about that probably no almost for sure no one has been there before on pulmi tower maybe the french guys was king this line before i like one month before i was there not really in a combo way or let's say they fly inside they made camp and then they was in some couloirs there i don't know exactly which one but maybe also the one ice key so
i mean still very few people but there it's
it's being done aaron when you're when you're um you know before you went did you put a ton of research into you know lines that you know did you have a lot of lines laid out that you you know really wanted to ski if you had the right conditions you know just looking at google earth and maps and that kind of thing i'm just i'm not aware of what kind of resources you have but i'm just i'm not aware of what kind of resources you have but i'm not aware of what kind of resources you have but i'm not aware of what kind of resources you have but you know i wouldn't imagine there's an avalanche center putting out daily i wouldn't think maybe there is but uh you know putting out daily condition reports and that kind of thing or is it the kind of stuff are you just getting there and you're kind of on sighting depending on the day and you're just so it's just kind of red pointing everywhere you're just okay we'll we'll try this today yeah
exactly like
okay i
didn't go high basically didn't even watch google earth where karima is
okay so you have you have some success with the combos you get sick as hell and uh it's awful and then you have this this 285 which you know you put up on x contest and the whole world went holy shit are you kidding me that sounds like kind of a dicey end but before we get to the the next one that you know that you had a day and you're like oh my god i'm gonna go to the day off and then you had the really big one then you and i talked about this the other day uh when you when you called me from the airport but give people some perspective who haven't been to the himalayas yeah what are the what are the main differences between flying in the alps is it is it stronger is it scarier is it uh you know what paint the paint the setting for us because obviously we all know it's huge i just can't imagine what your brain was trying to process you know and the altitudes of course are really high but i'd love to just know i think people would love to know you know is this a place that if you you know are a pretty skilled pilot what should you be what should you know before going to pakistan what can you expect so
for me like the flying itself in term in terms of uh strengths of the thermal and uh turbulence it's uh very comparable you can compare it uh quite one to one to flying in the alps in the spring by by strong conditions so um i spoke with uh brett sanders who has way more experience than me there and he think the place it's quite easy to fly i mean like the thermal the thermal are not turbulent and stuff like this to me i think at least the flight i'm not sure if it's going to be a good flight but i think it's going to be a good flight i had there was for sure more on the strong side uh of of uh alpine day but but it wasn't like nasty or or really bad uh definitely the altitude give you a little bit an extra speed but these you don't really feel like i didn't felt that my reaction has to be really faster or
to me the flying himself uh the sportive side of flying was quite similar as flying in the alps what is really different in pakistan is that you are really by your own and the commitment you take sometimes it's not the old flight but there are some parts where you have to make this step let's say in the dark um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um to high alpine experience you will probably not survive the the next hours because uh the glacier are huge and the the the things related to the glacier are big as well like uh travesties xerox stuff like this so to me it's more it was more this like the real adventure side of going in places where you know more or less that uh every decision you take it's gonna make your more or less your future so in the good and in the bad way so i don't i didn't feel like i was flying on full on risk like uh i i felt like i i was having quite a buffer because i
still want to go back home you know um but yeah i think the dimension there it's really big and you feel uh really small yeah this this is more the thing when
you when you woke up and you know the weather starts getting better when you woke up you'd had the 200k flight that was the weather was bad and then you you you woke up this day i don't know if you saw it but you saw it coming in advance you know if you oh okay but did you have some kind of a plan like that in mind or did you just start flying and then suddenly it was one of these things where okay this day is giving it to me on a platter i have to take advantage of it and you know and it all came together i guess what i'm saying is how much of it was planned versus how much just happened i mean because 285 you know even in the alps that takes that takes some planning you know you know you and i tried it in anthels that day you know you you got to think about the launch and the time and the the route and you know it's a lot of ground to cover
yeah it was not much planning to say um for sure i did for myself some turn point to i was like scouting maps looking at the maps the orientation of the valleys and uh
making on my exit exit track some turn point to have an idea more or less where to go but mostly i was uh actually flying the sky and actually both big flight i did actually i did three flight quite big which i'm quite proud of and uh and i change uh plan by flying so by flying i see different the sky better in one direction and i follow i follow the sky and i follow the mountain i can see because actually i'm still not very good in planning and so i tried to plan a bit but uh but it was yeah mostly following my flow of the day um and about the weather really um there we are we are in the middle of the day and we are in the middle of the day and we are in the middle of the day and we are in the middle of the day and we are in the middle of the day already from the beginning we decide to or decide not that we decide but we find out that we have just to open this the eyes and look the sky uh how it developed and i was really happy with myself because there was also days where i didn't went flying uh either combo or stuff um because i had this feeling but to me today it's not good because i'm not good at flying i'm not good at flying because i was looking at the clouds i was looking at the sky and i say i don't go flying and in fact for example those two days also the other guys went up on the takeoff but then they didn't fly so it was it was more yeah the forecast was was not a real forecast in a way
really so
it's really just kind of just looking up and deciding if this is the day
yeah kind of yeah kind of this yeah i
mean are you know i would think that mountains that big you know even on the on the low wind days you know like you said with with the glaciers being so big and the valley system so long and so massive the where you know where valley winds a big issue you said the katabatics could i would think would be really strong sometimes but um what were what was the wind like to to deal with
well like um so we find out the rules which fabio already knows from the year before that once on rakaposhi start to um uh pouring some rain or snow it's immediately time to go land immediately because it was like 10 times stronger than a strong wind day in the alps um that was like that that was like that that was like that that was like that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that and seeing in real time what's happening down in the valley.
But generally, on the good days, like the days I fly big, it was not much wind. It was not even much wind on 6,000 meters plus. And yeah,
the glacier does wind, but in the afternoon. So you will have to find yourself in the good place in the afternoon. So if you are higher than this cold air, which is pouring down, you are fine. If you get in this flow, you are really in a bad situation. And that was the key of my 312-kilometer flight because actually it was in a way similar. But in the end, I decided, I had to fly a parallel valley where the glacier was a little bit lower. And thanks to this, I think I managed to close the triangle because the fly of the 285, I got this bad experience.
And so on the 300-something, I fly another valley where the glacier is just way lower. And I didn't get any katabatic wind from it. And I fly all the way back to Karimabad.
And I'm like, how do
you deal with what's in your head now going forward? I can't imagine what's in your mind. The bigness, what you've just seen, and the style that you saw. Because you did both these flights by yourself. You saw the mountains of Pakistan in a way that really nobody has. I mean, people have flown there. And seen bits of it like you have. But I don't even know what this question is. It's how I can't imagine what's in your mind now. I mean, you saw something that is just totally remarkable.
And I'm sure very hard to articulate.
Yeah. Well, I feel myself super lucky to have this chance. And, yeah.
To have done it a little bit also, how to say.
Yeah, happy with myself that my brain and my willing bring me so far.
And also quite proud of myself in a way. Proud. Yeah, in the other way, maybe it was a little bit stupid. But as I told you already. Actually, the big flight I did after my crash, which I had. And it was quite amazing doing this flight with the pain I had. So, I really want.
Let's talk about that again. When was the crash and what happened? Basically, the day.
The last combo I did on the Gulmi Tower. With the plane. Which was perfect. And I skied two times this slope. And it was super great. Everything. I fly then to Karimabad. In the village. And I went for landing in a place I was landing already.
Often. So, a place I know. Any really super sketchy, dangerous place for landing. And also the day was going to die. So, it was no. No valley wind. Strong. No thermal. So, I just went for landing. And actually, the crash was not very spectacular. I just arrived. I have to land a little bit uphill. So, I slow down my glider. Let it shoot. And going for a nice landing. But probably in this moment, I got little tailwind. I guess. And so, the flare. It didn't happen as I planned. It's going to happen. And I land a little bit hard.
Definitely, if I will have whatever protector on my back, on my ass, nothing will happen. But I was without anything below myself. And I hit a stone with my back.
So, at the beginning, I was thinking probably it's broke. Because it was really painful. Really, really painful. Really, really painful. But then, I was there anyway by myself. So, what should I do? I start to pack my glider and start to walk. And by walking, I felt it was painful. But okay. So, maybe it's not broken.
And went to my room where I was staying. And the guys, they was up in the mountain. So, I was alone.
And I didn't know. I took some painkillers. And some cream. And I was thinking, okay.
Then, before going to sleep, I was thinking, what the fuck can I do tomorrow? It's going to be even more painful. But I want to fly. I want to fly. So, I decided to hang my harness on the place I was sleeping. And seeing how it's going to be to sit in the harness. Because at that moment, I couldn't sit on a chair. It was too painful. But my wish was that maybe in the harness, it's going to be better.
And, funny why, it was exactly like this. So, I sit into the harness. And it was way less painful than sitting on the bed, sitting on a chair, which was the worst anyway. And so, I say, okay. So, then maybe it's possible. But I still have to think how I will make it to the takeoff. Because it was a thousand vertical meters. Okay. With 20 kilos. But I say, okay. Now, I go to sleep. And I will see. So, I went to sleep. In the morning, I stand up. I was in really pain. But I put my backpack on. I pull all the shoulder straps that it was not touching much my lower back.
And somehow, I hike up. And I arrive up. I took one painkiller. And then I say, okay. I'm going to take off and see. If it's going to be too painful, I'm going to go landing. And if it's not too much painful, I'm going to fly. And like this, I start flying. I fly and fly. And then when it was midday and I had like 30-something average speed, I say, okay. Maybe I can keep on going. And anyway, I was anyway so far from the place I took off that in a way I have to go back. So, I keep on flying. Okay. And then I keep on flying and flying. And then I had to change my plan because the sky was looking different than what I was planning to fly.
And I find myself really low in a super high plateau where the valley floor was like about 4,000 meters. And I was 200 meters above the valley floor in completely shady sky. No sun, like zero sun. Just shadow everywhere. And I was low and I was thinking, okay, now if I'm going to land here, it's going to be at least one week walking. My back is super painful. It's going to be time to find something, something to get up. And I believe so much on this that in the shadow and fully cloudy sky, it built up like a little cloud.
You know, even when it. Everything dark. Then you see that a little things start to be. And I went to this little reach and I got the thermal. And with this, I get back on 6,000. And slowly I get out of this plateau. Then back in the main valley. And then fly to Rakaposi. And then I become really fast because in that part of the flight, my average speed went around 28 or 27. And just lose five kilometers an hour. I was just in surviving mode. But then I start to think, okay, but I can still make it on 300. And then I was not feeling any pain anymore. I was just in my flying flow.
And I keep on flying, keep on flying. And it becomes better and better and better. And then it comes this golden hours. Sun start to going down. And I'm keep on flying the fastest I can. Last thermal, it was actually. Yeah. Yeah. Five and a half thousand on the sunset. Sunset like in front of me. And with this last thermal, I took the good valley without much katabatic wind. And fly all the way back to Karimabad. That was it.
It just must have been on the ecstatic moon. I can't imagine just the emotions of all of that. Were you, after the big flight, the 285, and you know, you're doing all these flights. Without oxygen. Were you pretty wiped out? Were you tired?
No, no. I mean, after one flight, I always, after a big flight, I take one day rest.
From the 285, because actually from the 285, I come back home, I think, midnight.
Because, yeah, because I get splashed down and I had to walk. And so I was coming back super tired. Super late. So the next day I did nothing. And actually, yeah, it was this tour de force of doing the combo, crashing, flying the 300. And then the day after I rest. But then the day after, after, I went again flying. And it was basically the day before I have to leave to take the plane. And I say to myself, okay. No. Now you will go easy because you can't bomb out. You have your back, it's sore. And just go easy.
So I start with the idea of going easy. But then again, I came into this super mood where I just fly, fly, fly. But there, it's a place where it's quite commitment with jumping over a ridge. And then you have like a flat place here. And there I jump over this ridge. And I say, no, today it's not the day. And I turn back. So I just went over. And I didn't feel like good. And I just turned back. And I think that was really good. Because I think if you have to listen a little bit on yourself. And so I turned back and I say, fuck it. Today I'm not going to fly there. And I fly back.
And then I was a little bit for like a five minute without. What a plan, what to do. And then I just start again to follow the sky and a little bit the FIE sector. And I'm flying towards basically south. And then I get the first big present was to flying not really close, but close enough to see quite good the Nanga Parbat. So basically totally a different route I fly of the two other big flight I did. So I came. As close as for me possible to see quite well the Nanga Parbat. And then on the way back, flying back towards my starting place.
I had the option to do like a little bit of detour, but safe and for sure easy to fly or to fly towards the really big mountain Rakaposhi and Dira. Where it's one saddle on. I don't remember, but. Not too high where I could jump over and coming back in the valley of Karimabad. But the downside of this option was that if I will fucked up, I would land in a place. Crazy wild. And and so I have these two boys. Should I do? Should I not? But then I say, yes, for sure. You have to do it. So I went for it. I arrived to Dira.
And there are Kaposi. And that was below. Way below. The summit. But I felt like that. I have good chance to pass over the saddle. And I went for it. And of course, I didn't pass it. And then it was like this moment with really, really scaredness because below me, it's like huge. Massive place here. Full of just.
Travises. And. And I know if I will not find a. Thermal now, I will land there. Plus, I will also miss the plane. That was for sure. I missed the plane. And and then, yeah, I got again like a very weak leaf, like the weakest of the the old man. And I thermal this like gold and I make it just enough to pass with maybe 50 meter over the ridge and being on the other side. That was maybe. Yeah, maybe. Maybe was the biggest emotion of the old trip passing this ridge. Wow.
And that fly was, let's say, just 230 kilometer. But it was full of emotion.
Wow. So that was the last one. So after the 312, there was another one. Yeah. You're insatiable.
Didn't you ever want to just go to the valley and drink beer and call it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Well,
in Pakistan, you can't drink beer.
Of course. Yes, that's right.
So 40 days. It sounds like the adventure wasn't over even when it was supposed to be over. It was quite an epic even to get to the the the airport where you called me. Where do you take it from here, man? Is I'm sure you're back with your family and they're very happy to have you home. But. How do you how do you deal with the I've been calling it lately the mirage of success, you know, that that, OK, we've finally done as much as we need to do and we can back off. But I know that's not your style. So what's what's next?
Well, now I. Yeah. Actually, what's next is to get to get in shape and not having pain in my back. Once I come back home, I straight to the doctor and luckily he say I'm like crazy lucky that I didn't go my back because it's I have like half of my back. It's black, black and violet.
So really hard. Yeah. So, well, the first thing it's now to get to get. It again. But in my head, it's now full on competition mode because I want now to compete. And the very next thing, which I don't know, I really hope I can do. It's the competition I organized with Paul together. I can fly saliva. I can fly trophy, which is in my home plate. And it's. It's my race. So this is going to happen now in two weeks, the 16th of July.
And then I'm going to I'm going to prepare myself for the Dolomiti Superfly and then to the Chamonix Mont Blanc Air Tour. And then I'm really looking forward to come in your place to compete and compete. We're looking
forward to your talk. I can't wait. I'm sure. I'm sure you've got something already put together, but I hope you show us some of this Pakistan footage. Yeah. Yeah, for
sure. And we're at the Dolomiti Mall. And then and then I'm going to go back on the on the classical competition. And I really would like to to win a third World Cup Superfinal. And this year it's going to be in Mexico. And I think I like the place quite a lot.
Yeah, it's fantastic.
I can't wait to race with you there. That'll be great.
Yeah. Let's say now I'm I'm switching totally now from the adventure mode, which was from the beginning of the year till now. Even though I did some competition like just before Pakistan, I was in Slovenia. I did super nice competition. Not crazy high level. But it went really good for me. I won it. But I love to compete in Slovenia. I love to compete in Dolomiti. And but part of this, I was more in adventure and combo mood. But now basically, yeah, the second part of the summer is for me now. Competition. And.
Yeah. Let's see.
I wanted to ask you just one more thing about Pakistan. We jumped off to there to the future. But bring us back to Pakistan. You mentioned the other day when we were chatting that those the two days, the two big ones in the weather was good, but it wasn't great. You felt like, you know, there's there's much bigger potential there to be had. And talk about that a little bit.
Yeah. So I'm sure that the days I was flying, there was really good. But it was not perfect days because on the 285, I had a very slow beginning and then a fast middle and end part on the 300 kilometer flight. I had a very good start. Like the first one third of the flight was really fast. But then I get basically I. Yeah. I could bomb out three times. And my I was in surviving mode for more than two hours.
And then towards the end was again fast. And I make 312. So I'm quite sure that in a good day, in a really good day with with experience I have there now. I could really go for a 350 to 370. Yeah. Just for a 300 kilometer. But at the same time, what I was also saying also with the friends is. The question is, if really Pakistan is the place for going record or it's better to go in Pakistan just not looking the numbers and going for adventure, and then the numbers comes anyway by themselves.
so I don't know if it's right to I mean right it's not the right word but I don't know if if it's really makes sense to speak about 350 370 or even 400 kilometer in Pakistan because it's a it's a place for adventure I think and and not only for thinking like for example for me Brazil I have been twice and I flew the 500 kilometer which was a goal of mine and there really it was just about number for me it was sure the flying himself it's cool but I was there because I want 600 I mean the first time I won 500 and I did it but then at the second time I won 600 and and I was not much looking about the beauty of the flying and the place but more about the number so maybe for me I want to keep I don't know if I will go back in Pakistan but but maybe I want to keep this place at least with the idea to keep it for real adventure flying combos and not for chasing numbers.
So yeah. I
didn't I didn't realize you said the one place would be a week long walk out potentially I didn't realize. I mean obviously when people think of the Himalayas they think of it as being quite remote but I've also also thought there's you know really a lot of villages but I guess that's not at the upper at the really high levels, you know, the really high elevations then it gets snow and ice.
As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the
As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the
As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the As mentioned before, the two big valleys and there for example it's nothing or the hisper glacier i think it's like 70 or 80 kilometers long and that's just a glacier so there it's definitely other dimension and like for example when i did the xpeer uh i took part two times 214 and 216 2014 and 2016 i i really like it the pyrenees because there was they are way more wild than the alps are so in the alps it's really rare you fly longer than 10 minutes and you don't see a house or something or a hut or a trade or something on the pyrenees you might have flown uh 30 kilometers without seeing a trail or a hut or a house or or a or a human but in pakistan you can fly really long without seeing anyone and anything and yeah
that's uh yeah i mean i just this this the the contrast and the size and the scope of uh what you saw and what you did just just unbelievable man i'm proud of you it's just incredible incredible and i'm glad you you made it safely home um you brought up the xpeer we got to talk about that because that just went down uh you were you were busy i'm sure and didn't see i don't know if you how much of that you saw but hell of a race this year uh just unbelievable they had a lot of everything they did a lot of miles on the xpeer and they did a lot of things on the ground everybody uh even Chrigel because it was the first couple days was pretty much a ground game and then uh you know they had a much different course it kind of did this this big up and around thing uh all around the big mountains and uh and man i maxine looked like he had him at the end and then Chrigel did his thing and got him and it was just god he's he's uh he really truly is uh special isn't he just remarkable uh talent there
and yeah the move he made on maxine there at the end was was uh was pretty extraordinary i don't know how he knows how to do this kind of stuff but he just taps it yeah i
didn't i didn't follow but uh i just see now yesterday a little bit of course that he that Chrigel won and maxine and uh remy yeah yeah i mean the level it's it's you know by yourself it's super crazy high and but still Chrigel uh i mean it's almost any other sport man in in all the sport which has such a long legacy um yeah so somehow it's just special what you want to tell him
yeah it's just it really is special um the other thing i wanted to ask you about is the X-Alps the application period just opened the last time we talked you weren't so sure where are you sitting now uh
still on that point i think i will do the application but uh but i i don't know like it's not honestly it's not really about the race himself but it's more about around things which will in the end make me deciding if i do or not so right now i don't know
yeah i'm for sure still willing to compete a lot and that's why i'm gonna go for the for the x-ray drops and all the other comps i do um but uh about X-Alps i'm i'm still not sure yet um
aaron thanks for sharing this all with us uh i'm sure all the people that are watching this video listening are really hoping you do uh as i am of course you're so fun to watch every single time but i get it we've done it a lot too so uh but congratulations on just an epic adventure uh you you blew all of our minds and uh it's good to hear about it just right when you come home so it's all still fresh but can't wait to see all the all the videos and all the stuff you guys produced from this just insane trip but glad you're safe buddy thank you so much for being here and i'll see you glad you're home yeah
thank you very much kevin thank you and uh yeah looking forward to see you on the dolomiti superfly no are you coming in europe
yes i am yeah we'll be there next month i'm going to be supporting ben and uh yeah it'll be a fun it'll be it'll be great fun it'll be a good time yeah we won't be racing at your at your pace but it'll be really you know i've never supported anybody so and ben supported me four times so i owe him it's gonna we'll have a blast it'll be a
lot of fun ah it's gonna be nice sure cool thank you very much thank you buddy talk soon
if you find the cloud-based mayhem valuable you can support it in a lot of different ways you can give us a rating on itunes or stitcher however you get your podcast that goes a long ways and helps spread the word you can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media you can talk about it on the way out to launch with your pilot friends i know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way and of course you can support us financially this show does take a lot of time a lot of editing a lot of storage and music and all kinds of behind the scenes cost so if you can support us financially all we've ever asked for is a buck a show and you can do that through a one-time donation through paypal or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out we put a new show out every two weeks so for example if you did a buck a show and every two weeks it'd be about 25 a year so way cheaper than a magazine subscription and it makes all of this possible i do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors we get asked about that pretty frequently but i for a whole bunch of different reasons which i've said many times on the show i don't want to do that i don't like having that stuff at the front of the show and i also want you to know that these are authentic conversations with real people and these are just our opinions but our opinions are not being skewed by sponsors or advertising dollars i think that's a pretty toxic business model so i hope you dig that
you can support us if you go to cloudbasedmayhem.com you can find the places to support you can do it through patreon.com forward slash cloudbasedmayhem if you want a recurring subscription you can also do that directly through the website we've tried to make it really easy and that will give you access to all the bonus material little video casts that we do and extra little nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show but we feel like you should hear we don't put any of that behind a paywall if you can't afford to support us then just let me know and i'll set you up with an account of course that'll be lifetime and hopefully and you're being in a position someday to be able to support us but you'll find all that on the website all of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought cloud based mayhem merchandise t-shirts or hats or anything you should be all set up you should have an account you should be able to access all that bonus material now thank you so much for listening i really appreciate your support and we'll see you on the next show thank you
you you
you
you you you you you you you