Hi
there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Cloudbase Mayhem. Got a great show for you today with World Cup and German team pilot Daniel Turkus, who's had an amazing career, including competing for Germany in the 2002 Olympic Games in Salt Lake City in the halfpipe. We talk about his approach to risk and flying huge triangles in the Alps. He's from kind of the Kimsey region, which the X-Alps goes through every year. And I always see him kind of ping up on those huge days on X-Contests. So he gets after it, but he's also got a real job and real family and so doesn't have all the time in the world. But he's managed to take a very methodical approach to flying and done really well with it for a long time.
He's never had an accident. Talk about that and why. and some of the reflections he's had over the years on getting good, going big, and staying safe. So I think you're really going to enjoy this talk I did. We talked a lot about the Olympics, too, which was a ton of fun. The only bit of housekeeping I have as we get into the travel season for those in the Northern Hemisphere, and I guess Southern Hemisphere going to the Northern Hemisphere to fly, why is the insurance scheme continues to change? And it's been a hard thing to kind of pin down the article I have on the website. If you go to cloudbasemayhem.com and just put in the search term insurance, I am constantly updating that with recommendations.
I'm of course, no expert, but as I have pushed for years and years that we need to have proper coverage in case things go feel pear-shaped. A lot of our fellow friends who've gotten hurt, especially overseas and don't have the right kind of coverage, can quickly run into the six figures and be real painful for family, friends. You know, we see a lot of GoFundMe kind of things to try to get people home. So don't let that be you. Don't think it's not going to happen to you. Better to just be covered and prepared. It's literally the cup of it's less than the price of coffee a day kind of thing to get yearly coverage, and this is not just domestic insurance, but travel insurance and repatriation insurance, evacuation insurance, so I make recommendations there and tell you why, and it's worth going through it and figuring it out, especially before you go off to a World Cup or I'll go off to a competition or just go off to fly and have some fun.
Hope you're all having a good spring. There's been some big flights going down lately. I'm envious. I've been building a house. I've been flying too much. But I'm watching it and getting ready for summer. So hope you're all having a great one. Enjoy this really fun talk with my friend, Daniel Turkis.
Daniel, great to have you on the show. I've been really excited to talk to you since we chatted down at the World Cup in Columbia, which was, man, that was fun. And you ended up having a pretty good race. And so we're going to talk a lot about paragliding and comp flying and all that. And I'm going to enjoy the view out your window here. It sounds like it's dumping over there, which is great. I know the Alps needs more snow as we do, but I wanted to start off with the Olympics. You were in Salt Lake for the Olympics and snowboarding. So tell me about that. I had pretty big aspirations as a ski racer and trashed my knees when I was 17 and then 18 again, and that all ended with that. But, uh, how'd you make the transition? And how was it, how was it, uh, being in the Olympics? Congratulations, thank
You, I mean, it's pretty long time ago. In fact, it's pretty much 20 years. I was gonna say it's a 20-year anniversary exactly. Yeah, it was 2002, Salt Lake. Um, well, where should I start? Um, first of all, thanks for having me. Um, I really enjoy your podcast too. I listen to them regularly on long drives. Uh, regarding the snow, in fact, I don't need it anymore. Let's start closing down. And I'm more like it's paragliding, you know? Skiing, skiing is over. Yeah, I think it's a bit strange here, the weather, but uh, it will disappear quick, I think. Yeah. Um, anyhow, um, well, where should I start? I was skiing like you and and quite a lot because of my parents were skiing and um, and then when the snowboarding popped up, I was a skateboarder and also windsurfer, now more the kite surfer and always outdoor sports.
And then I made the switch to snowboarding and somehow I was pretty good, probably also because of my gymnastics background. I also did gymnastics when I was a kid. Yeah. And then, in fact, I, I first, First, I had a sponsor from our local shop where I was living back then. And then I was like, yeah, I'm now having a sponsor. So I had some gear for free. So probably I should do some comps. And that's how it all started. It was pretty tough because in the beginning, I was a student. I had no money. So I slept in my car.
Dirt bag.
No heating, of course. Yes, exactly. Classic dirt bag. but I somehow enjoyed these comms, and then at first was park, and then the pipe riding came up, and you know, and it was still ISF, so International Snowboard Federation, and I kept getting better. So I went from regional comms to German to European, and then suddenly I, "Oh, I'm qualified for the World Cup," and then I did, in total, I did four, four years of four seasons World Cup tour during my studies. In fact, I studied mechanical engineering, and this is
All was it? Pipe was it? Free ride, you know? Now, now there's a lot more events than what you had even back then, but what's—what was—what was your specialty? It
Was well, first it was park, but then it kind of transitioned to pipe, okay? And then in the beginning, I was also doing some border cross races and big air, um, so anything basically that came along while you were there, already. Anyways, I never did any slalom or giant slalom stuff like that, you know, with the hard boots. I was always, always a soft boot rider, okay? Yeah, okay. That you have some, some, uh, some gates to pass, right? Yeah. And then, uh, I, I kind of was here, um, and and the first two years I couldn't travel. I couldn't afford, I didn't have proper sponsors first to travel overseas, so the first two World Cup years were kind of in Europe, you know, everything you could reach with the car and sleeping in the car there.
And for me, it was like, okay, I want to snowboard, you know? And that was, that was cool. And then I started being better and better, and then I saw, oh, this is maybe the ticket to see the world, you know? That was a bit of a driver, you know, because I always had like a bit of a travel itch and I wanted to see the world. Yeah. And that's basically how it evolved. And then I had a sponsor, and then I started traveling, you know, proper sponsor. And then I also made a transition to the ski federation, and because my sponsor went bankrupt as well, it's a long story, but to make it short, it got better and better and better. And then, um, it was for me the ticket to see the world, so I was in Japan twice, I was in Chile, I was in, um, you know? So I was in Lake Tahoe and in Vancouver and on the East Coast.
And it's been a great time. Then I was already close for the Olympics in Magano in 1998, but I couldn't make it. And then I thought, OK, well, maybe Salt Lake. But it was also really close, to be honest. So I really literally qualified in the last possible comp, in the last possible run.
Whoa, that's some pressure.
It was me and another guy and we were in the finals and I was second and he was first. So I had to go, it was reverse order in the last run, two final runs, right? So we both disappeared in the woods, you know, trying to focus.
And I had a really, really, exactly, yeah. The pressure was really on and then I did a really, really great run. And I think I finished the comp in the top five or something, and he slammed, he fell
Wow, that was it meant to be, meant to be? Yes, um...
Yeah, and then I went to Salt Lake City, and that was really cool because, um, okay, Olympics, you know? I mean, that's still, I think, for any athlete, it's the the comp you want to be at, right? Yeah, it's bigger than Worlds or European Championships or whatever, yeah.
That's the mountain town.
Yeah, and that was cool because there was like a half stadium basically built around the pipe, loads of people, and you could choose your music, and you know, like it was a cool event that
Olympics was beautiful, and it was, you know, they they did a really nice job, and it was, it was a, it was an amazing event. The whole thing, that Olympics was, have you been?
there, or did you just follow? Because you just followed, not too far away. No, I was I
was sailing. Then I was sailing around the world, so I actually didn't even get to see that much of it. But um, but it was, you know, I was... it was weird watching Beijing this year. You know, Salt Lake really kind of lined up better for winter mountain sports. You know, that was... that was kind of bizarre in Beijing. Yeah, I agreed. God, it looked cold this year too, man. It looked miserable. Holy moly, but... But what, what, so just, I mean, I, we got to talk about paragliding, but the, the, that experience, um, can you, can you summarize it? I mean, does it still just leave a huge mark on you? It must've been amazing to be part of, I mean, the Olympics, it's, ah, it's a dream.
And in fact, it left a mark because I still feel my shoulder.
Did you crash in it? Did you get hurt in the Olympics?
Yeah. Yeah, in fact, it was a bit unfortunate. I mean, it was very unfortunate. And while no illusions, I wouldn't be winning them, right? But I thought, okay, I can be in the finals. You know, I mean, I was an amateur, right? I was studying at the same time, an engineer, getting an engineering degree together. And so, in fact, I got injured before the comp. And not in the halfpipe, but playing volleyball after training, you know, for a bit of a cool down, and in fact, you know, I went up to block, and my, my trainer as well, and he jumped on my foot when landing, and so my ankle was fucked one day before
the afternoon before, yes. And but I still didn't want to give up, and of course I wanted to do it right. And um, so I got fixed up as good as you can with tape around, you know, and painkillers and everything, and it was kind of okay. I could ride, but um, and I could also do all the years landing forward, like, you know, not goofy, yeah? So not—I was riding goofy, but not backwards, like so landing fake, the other foot forward, yeah? Because the pressure and the transition, it was already the super pipe pick then, right? I knew my ankle, it's tough, so I can't take it pressure, probably. So I avoided this last trick all the time training so I could ride, yeah?
Long story short, um, it was a switchhawk and flip, so you know, one—one flip and two spins, basically. That's what it was landing
landing fakie, and then um, my ankle couldn't take the pressure and smock full on on my shoulder, dislocated my shoulder, and I thought I just had caught the edge, you know, because it felt like it. And then, yeah, my shoulder was fucked too, and my ankle, and you have two runs to qualify, but I didn't want to give up, and you know, I had chosen Highway to Hell from AC/DC. Yeah! Dude! Nice! Awesome!
That's my warm up for paragliding still.
Imagine in Utah with the Mormons, right? Highway to Hell. Oh, they would have been psyched where people just, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I was flying high and it was really good. And you hear, you know, it goes silent and you hear while you're in the air really high. And you hear the crowd cheer while you're flying. I didn't hear the music. I heard the crowd, funny enough. Really? I heard the music before the run, but in the run I heard the crowd. Oh, what an experience. I went up for the second run with more painkillers and then same thing. smack again on the same shoulder, and then, um, well, I rehab and everything, but six weeks later I was in Japan for the next World Cup and, um, yeah, so I finished that season basically, and then I was fifth in the world ranking, which wasn't too bad, but you know, I had to finish my engineering degree too, and then I thought, okay, maybe it's a good time to, you know, call it a day, and, um, then I finished my career basically, um, because I wasn't going to go for another four years, you know, I was already 27, and which is pretty old for, you know, a half pipe snowboard, you have to be able to take some impact, how
About Sean White this year, what was he? 36 or something? I mean, it was the the the poundings that I mean, the the height and the this, it's just such a magnificent thing to watch. But I, I mean, they're doing that on ice. I mean, that Beijing pipe was just, I mean, and it is regardless. It's ice no matter where. It's just, it's hard because you guys are riding it so hard and it's, they shape it every day and it's freezing every night. And man, it's just like, you know, you're 30 feet above the ledge. You're 50 feet off the bottom of the pipe. It's hardcore. It's, man, just one slip up, you're just broken.
You know, you just shatter. Yeah, that's what I mean. You need to take impact and, uh, it's okay as long as everything you land smooth in the transition, right? If you, if you push off a little bit too much, boom, flat. Yeah, or if you push a little bit too little, you land on the table, right? Or even worse, like not just not enough, and that's why it's called to disaster, right? One foot on top and one foot down, and it's precision. Yeah, and I also remember in Finland, also pure ice, and you have to go and fly five meter high, you know? So yeah, that's like when you
When you watch that kind of, so I, we have a big pipe here at the local hill. We've got the big hill, and we've got a little hill where they've, you know, they have, they have the park and the pipe, and you know, really good athletes come and train here because they've got good snow and they've got good shaping and all, you know, I don't know anything about that, but uh, you know, they've, they've got a really good ski team here too, alpine. I was always alpine; I never, never did any of the tricks, and I always kind of sucked in the air. I wasn't really that good at any of the stuff that you did. And, but when I watch what's, you know, and this was a long time ago, I'm almost 50, you know, so this was back in the eighties and early nineties. And, you know, but when I watch these kids now, 14, 15, 16, 17, I can't even believe it. I mean, I, I, I watch that and go, God, did I even ever, was I even close to that?
Good. It gives me kind of the, It gives me kind of the creeps. I mean, the speed and the energy, and man, it's awesome.
like any sport, of course it evolved too, so basically they're just adding another flip, you know, and another spin since the time, you know, when I did it. So the level definitely evolved, and like the young kids are charging, but also, you know, the the whole training conditions got a lot better and even more professional. You know, we didn't have these airbags where you can practice your tricks into, just didn't exist, right? Right. So right now you have a bit more of safety to practice, you know, and of course also back at my time, the good guys, you know, they had all some gymnastics background like me, or um, diving, like um, boards diving, you call it like that, right?
Yeah, um, background and And, um, so that you knew, okay, this is how I am in the air, you know, so that you could do all the tricks, but basically we would practice in the summertime during the summer camps when the pipe was slushy, then the impact wasn't so hard.
Right. Yeah. But it's not like going into balls. I mean, I mean, even, even back in your day, I mean, Red Bull was building Sean, his own pipe. You know what I mean? It's pretty hard to go up against a guy that's got his own pipe. Oh no, it wasn't? Not
yet. Sean was a little kid. so he showed up in one of the last comms and was a little kid okay
It was like, all right, I thought, I thought that was his first, yeah.
He was just coming in, right? Right, okay. Yeah, there was a Canadian guy called Mike Michael Chuck, maybe you have heard about him? Like that? Sure, of course. Terry Harkinson had just basically retired and Sean White was just coming. Yeah, that was... I mean, now it's
It's got to be like the, you know, the the people coming into the X-Ops for the first time, and Chrigel, you know, one seven in a row. I mean, you're just, you know, they're a different level, right? So you've got two, I mean, right off the bat, here you've got two things that to me add up to just, whoa, you've got these huge building blocks to be an awesome pilot, engineering. How many people have we had on the show, or how many people do we see in this sport that are engineers? It's just over and over and over again. And then flow, you know, you're, you're obviously a big time flow athlete and a lot of flow history with, you know, Will Gadd always said that when he, when he sees people coming from flow sports, whether it be even mountain bike riding, but, but, you know, surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, uh, any kind of flow activity,
kayaking, big one. Um, then they just get really good, really fast at, at paragliding. And I've often thought it's not just the flow, it's the, it's the way your brain handles risk. You know, you're, you're doing a trick, like you said, that's got so much precision and a little bit of screw up means a broken shoulder, broken collarbone, broken leg, you know, high consequence, right? Right. So I, I'd love to hear, were you, were you piloting back then? Were you, were you, were you a paraglider at all? Had you started it when you were, you were? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I started flying 1997. So at the time of the Olympics, I was already flying for five years. Okay. And, and I always liked flying, you know, no matter which kind of thing it was with the snowboard flying, with the surfboard hitting the waves with the windsurfboard. Right. flying, yeah. And um, or kickers and everything, I always loved it. Um, yeah, but I was a pilot already and I kind of combined it. Also, you know, spring training in Davos, for example, you know, first snowboard, then go down to the parking lot, my house, my car, my car is my car, you get
your skis, your glider
nowhere
to sleep, but you got a lot of shit equipment in the car was worth a lot more than the car around it, right as
it should be dude as it should be. That's right.
Yeah, so snowboard in, glider out, and um, so I kind of combined it already back then. Yeah, wow.
you were pretty young uh then Because you said you were 27 when you kind of retired in Salt Lake. So you were early 20s when you were flying. You got to be pretty early.
22. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. When I started.
Tell me about that phase. You know, those first five, you know, when you're training for the Olympics and stuff, but you're also piloting. What was that period of your life like in terms of the flying side, learning it? You know, if you could go back to that time, would you change anything?
No. No, I don't think so. So, I mean, I didn't do the standard progression maybe in flying either, right? So, I started flying and then I had all this outdoor sports background and, you know, I knew where I am in the air, you know, and where my arms and legs and, you know, like this motion control. Just good self-awareness. Yes. And the flight teacher back then quickly realized that I must have some talent, right? So, in fact, the fifth flight already, he was like, oh, we forgot our radio. Well, you, Daniel, you can go without. It's fine.
And then I kind of started.
He right away recognized you just had a better, you had better perception, you had better understanding of what was happening.
Well, it seems like at least, right? I felt like, okay, I'm a beginner. And of course I'm aware, and you need to be aware, what's your skill level? What's your skill set? Where are you right? And then, what kind of risk, or is it risk, right? Is it a perception? So, if I hit a kicker with like, you know, 80 kilometers an hour, your jacket flapping, you know, and you go like, really flying 30 meters over the kicker and doing some spinny flippy stuff, you know, an outsider would, would go like, "He's fucking nuts," right? But for me, it was like, "No, I'm in control. I know how to handle this. I know how to do it." You know, I know my risk of injury is limited because this trick I done several times.
You know, I hit the kicker first, straight of course, before I do any tricks to get used to the kicker and stuff, and new tricks, you would practice into soft snow or powder or whatever, right? So, and I was aware, okay? I'm a beginner here, but then, um, you know, I started already soaring. The wind was right, the conditions were good. All the other pupils were launching below me; I was watching them, you know, without the radio. And then the guy started waving at me that I should, like, kind of fly out, fly out, you know, like we're done for the day. And I was still soaring back and, yeah, wow, this is great, exactly working out perfectly. But then, um, and then it was, of course, kind of exciting that, um, you know, I went exploring where I have been, you know, like where I was snowboarding.
Okay, new mountain, new launch, new, new, new landing, new conditions, kind of, you know, figuring it out. That was, of course, exciting, but maybe going back a bit and... And then I did, like, my 50 flights and then I went straight to an SIV. And then I did this SIV also with the same guy. And he was basically a bit of a mentor then because he knew I didn't have money. And, you know, so he always kept giving me some tips and, you know, so that helped with my progression. And so I did this whole SIV, full stalling, everything. And then I was done with the SIV. And then he was like, yeah, OK, if you like, you can upgrade now. Now here I have a high-performance glider here. You know, like if you want to buy it, you can have it. I'm like, really?
You know, so I stepped up from like a one to two to a two to three back then. So basically going straight to an E &D and I'm like, really? Yeah, yeah, you can handle it. And then I was like, okay, I'll go up here. And that was then over ground already. And he taught me a full stall is the reset button, right? I'm like, okay, I'm going up here. I'll do some full stalls, okay? okay, can you watch me? No? Oh, I handle it. Give me some feedback. And then I went up and it wasn't best enough. Flew out, full stall. Okay, went fine. Another one, the three landed. He was like, yeah, look good. And then we made the deal and he sold me the glider. And then he was like, this is the glider you're going to learn flying with.
Properly, right? Wow. Wow. And since
then. I guess, I mean, for you, for somebody that's really good at aerobatics, SID must have been really boring. Oh, geez, I've done this.
I'm not doing an infinite yet. It wasn't boring and infinite didn't exist. It was just when the SUD was also founded. Like I remember then watching this SUD on tape basically back then still, right? No internet, nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the SUD was just invented, you know, when I was like already flying for three years or so. So what we did were wing overs and spirals and more wing overs and a stall or a spin and stuff like that, right? And I kind of continued all the time with maneuvers for fun, right? But I didn't find, I never found it boring. It was always exciting, right?
Because I knew consequences, you need to focus here, right? And then of course, yeah. Yeah, so did you already fly to the Pinskow Valley? You know, like, no, I haven't. Like, what do you need to do? So, you know, so I got into cross country flying as well.
Were you living there again in the Northern Alps, getting near where you are? Because you're near Kemsie now. Is that where you were back then too?
During, I studied in Erlangen, which is close to Nuremberg, which is like two hours north of Munich.
That's where I grew up and I studied and everything. thing. Um, I couldn't afford to move anywhere else to study, so I just stayed home and did everything from there. But once I had finished my degree, it was clear for me, I wanted to be Munich or further south. I wanted to be, needed to be closer to the mountains, and that's what I did. And I was like, southeast of Munich, southwest of Munich, and so since six years I'm living where I'm living, which is the closest to the mountains yet, but always south of me. This
is probably an impossible But I'd like to get your take on, if you could look at what's made you a really successful pilot now and compare it back to then, which piece of the pie means more? Is it the engineering or is it the flow? Is it the sport background? How do those two mix in terms of your becoming a world-class pilot? it good question and
Neither, maybe. Honestly speaking, yeah, I mean surely there are elements of it, right? So that you have the maybe a bit of an analytical mind, and that you can reflect on what you have been doing, and that you can visualize, you know, that comes from the sports that you have been doing a lot outside in the nature. You kind of can read, you know, we had to—to, you had to read the mountain when freeriding, or you know, like you need to read the elements when surfing or windsurfing, or like you mentioned, kayaking, right? And um, I think that definitely helped, but um, finally it was just the pure fun, okay? And maybe also engineers like to optimize everything, so I also like to get better at stuff, right?
It's just fun, a good journey. So you know, like, what can I train next? Where are my gaps? Okay, this is maybe from the sports background where you say, okay, which is, I wouldn't call it like a training plan. But you say, okay, I maybe need to practice my wingovers more, you know, or I want to fly bigger distance.
But finally, I also, I devoured basically everything flying, right? And I think it's a lot of a mind game. In fact, it was one Finnish guy telling me back then, the snowboard competition, you know, it's all a mind game. And he's right. He was right, right? I mean, we're all good snowboarders. So, you know, the last final bit is your mind. I read books, you know, about weather, about, you know, about everything you can have. And then go flying a lot. And then if you combine these two, yeah, then you get a better pilot.
That's a really good transition to comps, Daniel. Daniel, you, you and I talked quite a bit down in Columbia, just about your history at 15th in the world or something right now. You've, you know, you've had, you've had a lot of comp experience, you know, at, at the world cup level, what you hear a lot is for the most part, let's call it, you know, in Columbia, this was certainly true because it was a very, very high level world cup, the technical ability, you know, in other words, the climbing ability and the gliding ability is pre is within a few percent, you know, from, from in, in the, in the most, in most of the pilots, it's, it's within a few percent, right? So that difference, you know, the winning or the top 10 or, you know, being consistent is here.
It's up, it's up top. It's in your head. It's the strategy. It's the little things. What can you tell the audience about, you know, some of the tips and tricks and things that you've learned or things that focus on, you know, over your last 20 something years of experience when it comes to comps that that have consistently helped you in results maybe
I also need to rewind a bit here because my comp comp experience, like classic central comps, 150 people meet or 100 or whatever, right, at one place and do this thing that we love so much to do, is only 10 years from my now 25 years of flying. So before, I was kind of the more lonesome eagle style, you know, big cross country. So I was doing the online contest, right, being also multiple German champion. There was a time when I was really, really into this, right, and I flew some triangles, and you know, then I heard later that some people started calling it, you know, my name, the triangle, the Turkish triangle, and um, I was like, "Oh, really?" I
I'm, I'm an X, I'm an X contest junkie, buddy. I've been watching your name for years. I think I've even, I've even reached out to you on X contest a few times with trying to get beta on certain parts because you know that pin scout zone really well. But yeah, it's, you've sent some huge ones through there, yeah.
Yeah, that one was like this triangle was in the Garmisch area because I was living closer to Garmisch back then. And I always said I'd rather fly far than drive far, you know. So I wanted to do it from where I live. It was like starting in Garmisch and flying all the way, you know, to Bregenz almost to the Lake Bodensee. And then Intal and then Piztal, Kaunertal, Edstal, you know, all these valleys. So I can tell you all the way to the main Alps Ridge and back. So I think the biggest back then was like 275 FIA, which I did. Oh, beautiful, magnificent. You know, then I've been a couple of times German champion. I was like, yeah, okay, now, you know, so what are we going to do now? And I thought, okay, maybe I go back to, I tried a central comp long, long time ago before that, you know, and it was all raining.
And I was like, why would you do that? You know, like, you take your precious holidays to sit in the rain, and I was like, "Nah." And then we went to Mexico, in fact, for a holiday, and said, "Let's combine it." You know, I knew there was Monarca open, and that was my first cop, basically, like 10 years ago, um, more or less. Yeah, okay. Wow, that
would have been about my first comp, probably, yeah.
It could be. In fact, I think we—you were there. I've been twice in Valle, and I remember one time we definitely shared a ride to the takeoff, and we're having a chat on the ride. I don't know which one it was, if it was the—if it was the first one or the second time I've been in Valle. It could be the first one, in fact. Yeah, yeah.
that I think that was my first was was 2012 maybe it's 2013 was my first but I haven't missed it since I mean, well, obviously COVID, I've missed it, but an ARC is special.
I agree. It's one of the best for me with Columbia, for sure. Columbia is like, you know, a softer Valle de Bravo type flying. But to answer your question, so learning number one was, okay, you're the lonesome eagle and you're really good at it. But in a comp, you must be a really, really, really fucking regal style lonesome eagle, but even he stays with the group, right? So stay with the group is maybe one of the learnings that I learned rather early, and it was pretty stressful for me in the beginning to fly with so many people, right? Especially, and it's still stressful, especially when it's close to the terrain and it's ugly, like in DeSantis, like cliff face and too many people.
And, you know, there is not a lot of room for error, right? So I find that still stressful. And then I still would fly away for safety reasons, basically. So that is one. It's really, really hard to be better by yourself rather than utilizing the swarm intelligence, right? So that was definitely one learning. running, um, the other basic, I think that is really, really important, um, is you must be able to control your wing, the wing you fly no matter what wing it is, but, um, people coming into comms and, you know, for example, the Enzo is flyable for a lot of people, but is it really controllable when the shit hits the fan for them?
You know, are they able to control it? So that is really, I think, very important. And so when you go to some Chabre Open, or, you know, like these newcomer comps, or also cross country flying, whatever you do, fly the wing you are comfortable with and you are in control, you know, because then you have the mental capacity to focus on everything else you have capacity to to observe what's the weather doing, what's the wind doing, where's the sun, you know, like all the luddy, luddy, luddy for cross country flying, but also what are the others doing, you know? Why is this guy breaking away? What does he see that I don't see, you know? All these things that add up.
Or what doesn't he see? Yeah, exactly. Sometimes it's the opposite. Who is breaking away,
right? Yes, who is doing it? Exactly. Who is doing it? That's a big one, so is it, or is it... um, so exactly. I think this is, this is really, really important. And with what I—what do I mean with wing control? I mean, finally, if you really simplify it, it's all pitch control, angle of attack control. So the only job you have is to keep the angle of attack in the right window—not too big, not too small, right? Too big, stall; too small, collapse or frontal. So yeah, and for that, I think every pilot—and I also, when they, when sometimes I give a talk, you know, and ask, "When should I step up and say, 'Okay, you...'"
Need to know your stall point. Ideally, you can install the wing smoothly and go enter a nice flyback. Your reset button flyback be able to spin the wing, ideally 180 degrees, so that you can basically—oh, something is ugly here, you know—I need to quickly turn around, which is almost impossible on the aircraft we fly. But yes, 180 degrees spin. So, stall point again, on one side it's stall point. So many accidents happen because people try to squeeze their wing, you know, around the corner and they stall it, they spin it on one side. So that is important. And then I add to it, you should be comfortable flying, ideally full speed.
collapses on your wing frontals or side collapses. Best is both, and when you're comfortable doing all that on the wing, you fly. And then, when it starts to be boring, then you can consider stepping, stepping up, so
When all, when you have that totally down, if that just doesn't even get your heart rate up, then then you might be ready
Yeah, but I mean, that's of course unrealistic, because also my heart rate still goes up when I go stalling, and I go stalling a lot because I want to keep current with my practice. So in winter time, or no thermal time, I, I go stalling and
Are you, are you doing going out over the dirt or over the water? But yeah,
So you just, you...
go off your local hill and just get the only SIV I
Did over water was this very first one after 50 flights?
Wow, really? So, everything since then has been over dirt, I...
Don't recommend it, to be honest. Just to be very clear, I do not recommend it to the, you know, standard pilot population to do it like this, but once you are comfortable stalling, I think you can do a lot over dirt. And I was pushing my limit, but this is also, maybe I think, a good advice for everybody: push your limit, but push it slowly, slowly, slowly, gradually, right? And and back then, it wasn't standard to have two rescues, so I had one and I knew, okay, I have one rescue, and so I'd better not use it, I don't fuck it up, you know? So I would go stalling when I felt comfortable and the conditions were good and everything, but... But I always had wings, kind of like I always had high-performance wings, right? In the beginning, I wanted to have a wing that could do both, that could go like cross country, but you could also have some fun with it doing some maneuvers.
Nowadays, I have a freestyle wing for that with aqua harness and also two rescues. But I never needed my rescues. In 3,000 hours of flight, 25 years, I never threw my rescue because of need of a rescue. No, never.
Never? Wow. Was it, was it hard for you to change from the, you know, the big FAIs where obviously you're still using a lot of bar to fly, you know, a 270 FAI in a day. But, you know, for, for me still, even to this day, I don't use bar when I go on big flights, like I do in a comp, you know what I mean? In a comp, you're just stomping all the time. And was it, was it pretty natural for you to speed wise and, and, and speed bar usage wise for you to make the transition from big, you know, big XC flights to, to comps? Cause it wasn't really for me. It was a whole nother learning curve of using bar. And a lot of that's because here we fly, we go downwind a lot.
You know, we don't have weather to, to allow for the FAIs, you know, we don't have the anthel set up here at all. So often we're just going downwind, and you just don't need as much bar. But, uh, but we should probably—we should, the thing we always talk about is we need to be using more bar, you know, to go bigger. And, and but in a comp, you're using it all the time. It's just for me, it's a different mindset, you know? When I go to a comp, okay, I'm using more bar.
No, not for me, okay? Um, because um, make ready, ready dictates bar. So, if you want to fly efficient, and if you, you need to bring up your average speed, otherwise you don't fly 300 or whatever, you know, 200 plus FAA. And and that's maybe also a difference because, yeah, okay, in the beginning, you know, I wanted to fly from Germany all the way to Italy, which I did, right? So, with the wind, basically one way I did in the beginning, like everybody more one ways, realizing, okay, the second part of the adventure, getting home, you know, just takes also basically a lot of time, almost.
Yeah, as a rule of thumb, it was always, okay, you fly seven hours one direction, you need seven hours to get home, right? That was like roughly the math behind it. And then I said, okay, I prefer to do something like closed, you know, flat triangles, or FIA triangles, of course, it's like the best, you know, FIA training. This is what you do, right? If you want to, this is the sexy one. and I was also pushing bar already a lot because, well, when it's right also in a comp, you don't push that. Was also maybe a learning. I raised myself to the ground quite often in the beginning, don't
You think that's necessary, though, for
the learning yeah
probably to kind of go through that stage. Yeah. I mean, to, you know, I mean, uh, we, I've heard Aaron Durogati and some of the, some of the folks that have had a ton of success, you know, they, they all talk about going through this phase where, you know, the, the beginning step, step one, first phase is, is staying with the gaggle, you know, having enough skills to climb as well as the gag as the lead gaggle and, and picking decent enough lines that you can stay with them. Yeah. And then phase two is, you know, yassening, I would say it, you know, is pushing. Obviously he's way beyond phase two, but I mean, but in terms of the learning side, you know, you, you push and you bomb out and you, you know, you, you, you take a little bit of ego hit for a couple of years and learn how to fly fast, learn how to make your own decisions. decisions and then you kind of start putting it all together in phase three where you can
pimp when it's the right thing to pimp, and lead out when it's the right way to lead out. Get the leading points, but not be overly aggressive, you know? Russ Ogden discipline.
I think he summarized it very well in the talk with you. I think it was as well, right? Um, and I agree. So finally, it is to be a successful comp pilot, I realized that you need to be able to strike the right balance between attack and control.
Slow down a bit, right? Also, especially when conditions switch. So the switching gear part. I mean, there are days that are, as you said, crushing bar. Boom, you know, like all day long. And then there, it's climbing. So finally, we all, if we all fly full bar, yeah, you can't gain anything, right? Because everybody is flying full bar. So then it's your climbing abilities and your ability, and this is, I think, also very important, but very difficult to learn lines, lines, lines, lines, Colombia. You know, you hit the shitty line, you go from zero to zero, you
hit a good line. Oh, I'm catching up with the top guys, you know? Like, yeah, and and all this together makes this game so interesting, complex on one hand, but I think this complexity also makes it a very interesting game to play. Yes,
Don't, don't you feel like... I feel like often it comps. There's, there can really be a lot of lemming flying on lines. Do you, do you feel that? I, I've, I often sense that it can be pretty easy to catch up, you know, if you, if you get dropped. If you, if you blow it, you know, even in Columbia, when it's really fast, if, you know, because I feel like, you know, the, the lead gaggle will often stay so glued together in a sense that, you know, like you said, you could be, it can often be a pretty nice place to be, to be just behind that. And you can pick out a better line and suddenly, boom, you're, you're, you can kind of play a little bit of leapfrog, but I find that lines are, like you said, you can, it can destroy you and it can really hero you.
And but I often see, you know, a whole bunch of people on not a great line and and just not being searchy enough. I don't know that, yeah.
Maybe it's because they just want to stay with their group, especially with it when it's the lead group. But I must also say, at least on a really high level comp, like in Columbia, it was the World Cup, or in Gemina, or wherever, you know? Like, where really all the top, top, top guys come.
Mistakes are painful. And at least for me, it is ultra difficult. I don't find it so easy to catch up because then they are smart enough in this gaggle and they spread out a bit in this leading gaggle. Sometimes it even splits. And then me personally, I find it pretty hard to catch up. Basically, it's only possible when they make a mistake or they have some hang up somewhere, you know, because they have to thermal something weak because they raced too much to the ground. And, you know, so but if they don't get stuck and they continue full speed, boom, thermal, full speed, boom, thermal, and they're so good and efficient, it's impossible to catch up.
Yeah, if they're being efficient. Yeah, I should clarify that. If I said easy, I didn't mean that. It's never easy. It's, it's, uh, but, uh, but the, I've just found that the, the line sometimes can be where you can really grab an advantage, and I'm, and I'm not, and I'm not good at them. I'm just saying that if you're, if you're willing to stay searchy, just like we are when we climb, you can often, oh, you know, and like you said, sometimes it's just you got to stay with them and hammer bar, even if you're not in a good line, you don't want to lose them. But sometimes it's pretty worth just moving a little bit. This, this isn't a very good line. I'm gonna just move, yeah.
Especially flatlands, so I think we must differentiate here: flatland flying versus mountain flying. Because mountain flying, the line is the line, right? Yeah, I mean, you don't suddenly start searching over the valley. No, you stay, you know, you stay, you know, with the model, you know, the model when you, when you paint it with honey and and you turn it around. So basically, you stay where the triggers are. That's your line, right? Sure, of course. Along the ridge, basically. Or if it's ridge racing, like in Bassano or wherever, yeah, there is only one line, and that's it. But Colombia or Macedonia or flatlands in general,
there it can make sense to search a bit more. And there you have more this impact of lines. designs I read also, now in Brazil, apparently I also never made it to Baishu, so I always wanted to go. This is, this is torture.
My friend watching this comp, and they're, they're just starting day seven actually right now. And I've never been to Baishu; I wanted to go so bad this year, and I had to cancel. But it was, god, it looks good down there. Oh, just seven days, I
mean, similar like you, I have other obligations. I have a family, and you know, I have a job, and I can't be everywhere. It's impossible, and yes, it's a torture, but I think we, we don't need to cry too loud because we've been in Colombia, and it's been really great.
Yeah, it was really, it was really great. It was too long ago, too long ago. Well, okay, so that, that's a good transition too. The, you, so you did the, you know, you did the crusher big flights. That was the real focus for a long time, and I still see you doing that. I know you're still doing that now, but, um, but you're in your, you know, German team a whole, whole bunch of times, and you're right at the top right now in the world. What are your goals now? You know, you've been doing the racing thing for the last 10 years. You know, I, I've, I've never, I started racing about 10 years ago as well, but I haven't done it at your, your level. I've been more focused on the X-Alps, and that kind of takes me out of comps for a year. But now I'm really thinking, I think I'd really like to put some time and energy into that, and at the same time, I think, gosh, is that a worthy endeavor?
I don't know. You know, I'm curious if, is it, is it something you're still really passionate about? Do you love it? Do you, do you want to keep pushing that side of things?
Absolutely, I love it. You like, you like...
racing i
Love racing and, um, I think I still have a long way to, you know, get better and learn. Yes, okay, I'm in the top 15 of the world, but you know, I, for example, I've never been on the World Cup podium, right? Or Europeans? Okay, Europeans, I was six and in the World in Argentina, I was nine. So top 10, also I've been at the World Cup top 10. Top 10 is a good result, right? Sure, top 10 is always good, but top three or top five is better. I just also, also top 10 in the world sounds better than 15, um, but maybe that's just a side effect, right? Um, because like you can't as, and you talked a lot about it with, um, you know, with your ex-Alps colleagues, and you know, these results-oriented goals, you know, Thomas Terria says it as well, right?
It doesn't make sense. It, you can only try to improve yourself and and your type of flying, and my goal is to become a better bird, let's say, right? Um, be more elegant, be better, be more efficient, be more in control of the wing, and be a better pilot still. And I think this journey never ends, and sure, and and I think that's also the good part about it, and flying the comps, I
I think that it's a bit different because, first of all, I haven't won them boom boom boom like, you know, like with the with the other thing. Like, if if I keep winning everything, okay, maybe it starts to to be boring, I don't know. But I don't see that happening because I still have other obligations, and I can only do as good as I can do, and I can't do so many comms so because so and and I cannot compare, let's say, to Honora who flies, I don't know, 1000 hours a year or whatever. It's his job to fly, right? Um, so I'll probably never be as good as him, but I'd like to be. And there is potential, right? I can sniff it a bit here and out there. And you know, I have my highlights, but what I also really do like about the comms is the the community.
the, it's a bit of a social aspect too, right? With it, compared to the Lonesome Eagle thing, because you meet, like, you meet the people all over the world and continues, but a lot of faces have been there for a long time, like you, right? And so I'm, I'm happy to see you, hey Gavin, you know, like, or whoever. And I mean, I don't see you much, um, like, or, or the other side of it, outside of it, yeah, right? So you just see those guys during, and you know, and you meet people from all over the world, or in Europe, and you know, I can apply some language skills here, there, you know, I speak Spanish and English and Czech, German, so it's also fun, you know, to speak with those guys, speak with those guys, and have a beer together afterwards.
And you know, it's the thrill, but then also, like, the community, and then you know, the "let's have a beer afterwards." I like it. It's
Fun, Daniel, we talked in Columbia that one of the things you're really most proud of, and you—you give talks about this, and I know you talked about it in your—in your podcast, in the—the German podcast. Um, 25 something years of flying now, no accidents. And as we started the show, you know, you're not risk-averse. You were in the Olympics in the pipe, you know, so you—you know, you—you do, you take risks. You're obviously very comfortable with risk, you know, these big flights, the 270s and stuff, in the bigger, you know, these huge fais that involves risk. You're flying in the lead. Um, what do you chalk up this—this very safe run to luck?
Maybe should be part of it. Um, of course there is, but I think it's—I try to calculate the risk, you know, um, like the risk-reward part of it, and the best way to mitigate risk, and I think I said it before already, is skill. So if you're really skilled and smart—smart, so don't be dumb, right? Um, don't take dumb decisions, right? And I, and I also had close calls, right? I mean, no doubt about that.
So that's why there was a bit of luck involved as well, for sure, but I think it's skills, like you know, in snowboarding or any other sport. Surfing, let's take surfing as an example. If you're not a good surfer, you wouldn't even dare to go out in the big conditions, you know? Like, you wouldn't even manage, because first of all, you see the waves, how big they are, and second, you try to go out and you probably don't even manage the shore break. You could just get spat out and, well, you'd
Never even get there, you never even get there, you
probably Probably, you know, will be spat out, half drunk, half drowned, right? Drowned. And so knowing, being able to assess the conditions and match them to your honest, reflected skill level. I think this is what helps you stay safe, right? So your skill level must match the conditions. You are trying to fly in and the wise decisions, um, so as I said, if it's maybe in the lee side, and I would never, for example, push bar into the lee side full on when I don't have, let's say, 100 meters, right?
Better 150, because 150 is giving yourself some margin. My threshold: 50 for the shit to happen, 50 to assess, can I fix it? And 50 for the rescue to work. But that is already like really on the limit, right? Yeah.
That's close. That's very...
Close, and okay, then it makes a difference. Is it for rocky, ugly terrain below, or is it all a dense, nice forest? And in the worst case, okay, I go down in the woods, it's not nice to be hanging in a tree. I don't want that experience, experience. But trees are your friends, right? A dense forest, you probably won't be heavily injured, so also that you must take into account in your risk calculation. But having said all that, and I knock on wood here, um, is is there is uh remaining risk? And I think we'll get to it as well, that no know which we are taking, right? But you're taking, I mean, it's called living, right?
You drive a car, there is risk. You leave the house, there is risk, right? And and so, um, yeah, but it's too much fun you
Had a... you... you remind me you had a crazy incident in... in Descentis, which... that sounded like a dicey. Everybody I've talked to about Descentis said it was really on the edge at times, uh, you know, with the lee and the wind. And didn't you have a barely cleared the ground or something when you... you had a collapse and near the cliff wall? But you talk about that... that was crazy. I...
Tell you that somebody else tell you, you told me, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, because we're talking, yeah. That was one of the closest calls, in fact, I ever had, and typical thing, yes, it was. We were racing along the cliff, rocky faces, and there was like a shoulder, and the wind was coming like from the thermals, like on the right side, kind of thing, but it was also this like kind of northerly, northwesterly, and
dumping in i
believe that, um, you know, I, I came there and I saw the others climbing away. I wasn't in front, front, but, um, you know, I saw them taking that line and I looked good and I was like, "Okay, I'm just gonna follow." But when I reached that kind of shoulder, it was ugly air, you know? I felt it and I was like, "Ah, no, I don't like that." I, you know, release bar and I want to have more ground clearance and so as I fly away from the terrain
I believe it. I hit like a some sort of rotor, basically coming a sideways rotor, maybe combined. People can't see me, combined with a standard classic downwind rotor. And I'm flying away and, well, I was still maybe on half bar, but kaboom, you know, the terrain side of my wing collapsed, which is kind of really nothing you want to have. And so there is another golden rule I have. I want to have enough space to make at least one turn to the terrain, right? One full 360, to have that space.
and I needed it. And I used all my skills I had from, you know, recovering wings. And, um, but it was one of these events where everything slows down and, you know, like, I was like, okay, this is really, really, no, you need full focus. Right. And I managed to recover and I, I, I, it was really close. Right. I mean, I even touched the ground and fly away.
Whoa. So you had the collapse, it spun you towards the hill, you caught it. flew away and your ass hit the ground on the way out. I
caught it. I kind of, I kind of stole it, yeah. And my ass hit the, hit the, hit the grass. It was a grassy patch then, already, um, yeah. And that reminded me, it was a good wake-up call and a good reminder to stay with these golden rules: 150 meter above the ground, enough space to make to spin toward terrain, and no matter what your skill set it is, you might get an, you know, and read the air and anticipate, and you know, like I kind of felt, ah, it's not, it's getting ugly, and um, yeah, everything close to the terrain is dangerous.
Yeah, there... there are things that there are things that can happen to us that skill doesn't matter too much anymore, you know? If you don't have the terrain clearance, you know, it's, uh, you don't want... want to... you don't want to be relying on miracles, yeah?
But skill, I think, still helps because it makes a big difference if you impact out of a pendulum because you let your wing shoot, or you're—you're—you're—you're—um, skilled enough and aware enough that, okay, I can't recover it maybe, and I don't have enough height. Okay, let's keep the wing above my head no matter what it looks like, but no pendulum. So, and I mean, I visualized a lot—everything, you know, like I do a lot—and I never... it's not true, I threw my rescue once, um, because it needed a repack. So, and it was in winter time, man, I was scared. I would have preferred to do five full stalls rather than—and throw my rescue because I had never done it.
And so I threw my rest, I flew straight, you know, and I was like, okay, how high am I over the landing field? Okay, yeah, this should do... uh, maybe wait a little bit because I don't want to search for my container, right? Uh, no, but now I'm gonna do it. I had a steerable one and I wanted to try, you know, the steering part of it. It took me a while to position and do. Okay, now I throw it, you know? And then I threw it, and—and the steering part, I mean, there's a thing opened and I was looking, okay, my container is going this way, and okay, let's release the glider here, um, and then, okay, now we could start steering. Oh no, the ground's already here. So, yeah, it
All happens pretty quick. Uh, yeah, the the videos that uh Urs Hari puts out are are really terrific for that because he's doing it every day, just over and over and over again, and it makes you realize how much there is to do. You know, disabling the way I did the same thing with the I flew I threw down in Columbia a bunch of years ago on the Evox on a practice day, and right when I got there, everybody said, "Oh, you know, Roldanio is different this year. It's all spicy and it's it's really strong." And I had just come from Monarca and I just get out, "What are you talk? This isn't... it's not strong in Columbia." And it was pretty strong anyway. I lost my wing and when I I when I went to throw, I actually waited for quite a long time because my wing was okay. It was just, you know, it was I was too low to try to do something else, or I wasn't comfortable trying to do something else because there was lots of power lines, and so I thought, "Okay, I'm just going to fly out over the bench because I was back over the, you know, it drops away," and I thought, "Okay, I'm I'm going to fly it because there was little teeny tiny field." Otherwise it was all just forest.
And I thought, okay, I'll get to windward of that teeny tiny field. Then I'll throw, I mean, I have lots of time to think about this and I'll throw and I'll steer it in and maybe I'll just be able to relaunch from there, you know? And, uh, cause I had a steerable. So I did, I did all that. But by the time I threw and I was on the ground, I mean, I never even got to the chance of trying to, it takes a while, you know, and I was able, I just packed it up and flew out of there. It was great. It all worked out really well, but, but, uh, yeah, it's—it takes—it takes a bit of time. I mean, disabling the glider, is that's a big step, you
know, well, I have quick outs for that reason. Yeah, I think it only makes sense. That's great.
I have that with my acro kit; I need to have
That I have quick outs, I have a release system for my bar. I basically boom, and I use it, and it's—maybe we haven't talked about it—but passive safety, so that's also an important part for me. Um, so yeah, okay. Two reserves, god.
I have, I have a whole nother set of that stuff. I mean, I just haven't put it on with my, yeah.
So I have them for various reasons, right? Mainly because of the rogalo, because then it's more easy and faster to—okay, boom, then gone, right? Or you have it on one break or whatever, and then the whole system works a lot better. Number one, so put it on um second. And I use them already when I was landing backwards, you know, in howling wind. And, you know, then I just touch down. And the moment I touch down, I do bling. And my wing is completely disabled, right? I'm not being dragged through any field.
You just get rid of one? Both. When you do that? I did
both. Oh, you just let it go. Okay. Oh, wow. Well, basically, you keep your brakes, right? and then your wing is landing softly on the brakes, even in howling wind, and you can easily manage it. So that's another reason, and well, who knows, um, you have some shit going on, you, you, you, you mess up river, even a creek, whatever, you want to be able to get rid of it, yeah. And um, for, for For that reason, I also carry a hook knife, a big fucking proper hook knife, you know, with a proper handle and it cuts everything I tried. It cuts like through four layers of webbing, like butter, like, right. So I've never used it. I never, you know, but I heard stories also people coming down on rescues, you know, one almost disappeared in a crevice in a glacier.
You know, because when do you pull rescue when it's ugly and howling and really ugly, right? Otherwise, why wouldn't we need a rescue normally? And so I want to be able to cut away the rescue, um, on the other guy. I know he did, he was dragged into a ravine and he, he ended up being like, he was bandaged like a mummy top to toe, um, from just getting pulled through the stuff, yes, with
high winds so
That's another reason I think it's good to carry a proper hook knife, and thirdly, and this is I think also big danger, and that's why I think we should all be very friendly and very respectful with each other in this gaggles and a collision that is, yeah. And I, so as soon as I should have any lines around my head or neck, you know, I just take the hook knife and cut everything away, like, you know, I will go ballistic with a hook knife all around myself before pulling the rescue, yeah? Get rid of that, get rid of that stuff, this
Is the, uh, this is the—this is the one side of the sport that I, I frequently find, um, in a sense, when you're at a World Cup, you feel better about being really close because everybody's really good, but you, you know, we had a, the world cup in Turkey, this, this fall, I don't know if it was because there was, there was a lot of pilots there that had never been in a world cup. It was, you know, it was, uh, there was 30 or so spots open, I think, cause of COVID and everything else. So I don't know if it was that, but there were, it was insanely aggressive and, uh, especially before the start, which just infuriates me. And I, I, I find that, you know, we don't, We don't see gliders blowing up that much, you know, these days. It... we what we see is mid-airs, and that, that part of it is spooky.
I don't like that, and it doesn't... it's unnecessary too, but
I haven't, I haven't seen many midders, and basically the gaggles I choose to fly with, um, of course, obviously it's the good ones, right? So if I fly with the good Frenchies, I am daring to go really close with them, or with the really good Germans, you know? Um, it's cool because I know everyone is away, everyone is watching it, everybody, you know, like, um, and they react as well. I had once also in the centers, by the way, but the one previous World Cup I was thermaling together with Ferdy, you know? And and I took a collapse on the outside and kind of, oh, you know, it lifted me and kind of spun me towards words him and I was like, he was like, I, I got no worries, I see you, you know?
So he just made some space and we continued thermaling together. I didn't lose a lot of height or anything, right? But just for a second, too, I wasn't able to steer my glider where I wanted to go, right? Because of course, when you have a big collapse and it's a lee thermal and you're being punched up with six meters per second and you know half of your wing is missing, well, you're not steering so much, right? You're fixing, you're fixing, you're not steering, you're fixing it. And um, and then it of course helps when you have really good pilots around you that can also, for example, quickly spin the wing, you know, to make space for you if necessary or whatever. Yeah, sure.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's surprising when you're, when you're with the lead gaggle, how, uh, you know, nobody's, nobody's worried about too much. You know, you're, you're nice and tight on everybody and, and it's all just, oh, I love that, love that motion, you know, the motion of the birds and everybody, we're all just so in tune. I mean, everybody's trying to beat each other, but you're also just working together and, you know, you could just be within inches and it's just, no, he's got me, I got him, we're good. Yeah,
Exactly, beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah. And you know, you see the grin under his full face helmet. I mean, you don't see the grin, but you see the grin, right? Um, at least that's what I imagine. You know, I'm having a grin, and I'm imagining the other guy having a grin, and we're enjoying ourselves. The Vario is screaming, and we are going up, and yeah, you know, we got the ballistic thermal, go for it. We're
all adding wrinkles to our eyeballs and mouth and mouths every time we fly, aren't we just from the smiling and
People are not having collapses this level. People, we are not having collapses. People are in control, which is cool. It's cool to be part of it. It
Is cool. This may be too obvious of a question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. I read in the commentary when we were down at Columbia that Onoran's been on the podium in 40, I think she said, 41% of the races he's been in, which is just mind-blowing. I mean, I can't imagine there's anybody else that's even at 10. But, you know, we there's all the obvious things—what you see a thousand hours a year or whatever it is, you know that this is his job. Um, but what, what are the things that maybe aren't so obvious? You know, what, what are the things? Why is he so consistent? Because that's incredible consistency. I
Don't know, I asked him, he doesn't know. I mean, he's probably also just a really good talent, and he has a good headspace, and you know, he's observative. He's just doing less mistakes than we do, right? I mean, we all do mistakes, and the little mistakes, maybe just little mistakes, and also little mistakes add up, and so maybe he is doing least mistakes. Um, I
Don't know if I would know it, I would copy it, try to
Yeah, I think it's all the pieces, and because it's such a complex game, I think it's really hard to pinpoint it down to one thing, right? It's impossible, I think. I think he's just really good in all aspects; I mean, he's just from another planet. Maybe, maybe he's an alien, I don't know. He's putting that jigsaw together. Maybe he was a bird in his previous life or whatever. I don't know. I mean, Luke is also really good. I mean, there are many. I often. There are more. And Russ, I mean, like, you know, he shows up and he's consistent too.
Experience, surely experience is also part of it, you know?
Yeah, I was just going to say, I mean, Mean, you just threw out three names that fly almost every day. You know, they're flying in and they're testing wings and they're out, they're out on the hill almost every day. And you know, so there's no magic here, is there? It's just time, you know, and experience. Hours, hours, hours...
Yeah, hours and hours help. I mean, luckily we're not flying, even though we are not running marathon where you know you need to consistently train, train, train, or you lose your physique, right? You lose it if you, if you stop running for a week or two, like, yeah. Or you know, it about the exhaust, right? You need to build it, and it takes long, and you lose it quickly, all this endurance stuff. Um, so it's not so much the endurance that we need, right? So you can have a break for a month, and you can still be good, right? But of course, it helps. The more hours you have, the better you fly. It's these nuances, right? You have better wing control, you climb better, you feel more comfortable.
You, you climb 0.1, 0.2, whatever better than because you're so current. So surely the hours are part of the game, yeah? But there are people that maybe don't fly so many hours and still show up and, boom, you know
yeah it's it does it does seem like there's a bit of a key you know in in the game where okay Okay, you're right. The Honor and the Lukes, the Russ, they're at another level. But you do see a lot of consistency at these World Cups, race after race after race. And it seems to me that there are pilots who have somewhere along the line have gotten the key. They've gotten the golden key and they've unlocked the door. and to them like, you said it's, it's not quite like riding a bike, but it's pretty close. You know, they, they have figured out the little things that, in other words, it's not just totally create, you know? We all have good days, we all can show up at a comp and just have one and have a good comp, but, but to do it all the time isn't, isn't to me is another level.
Yeah, there are some people that are really consistent. Julian Wilts Chalcazo, you know, they're also really consistent. I mean, they—they may be not women, but Ulrich, Prinz, you know, they show up at a comp and, or Ferdi, also a very good example, right? They show up at a comp and they're in the top 10.
Well, let's say in the top 20 % for sure. Yeah,
pretty much
always. Yeah.
Daniel, what a treat, man. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we got to do this. It's good to get to know you a little bit better and also just can't wait to fly with you some more, man. And I got all fired up in Columbia and I'm building a house this year. So I'm not going to be able to do it as much, but I hope to see you in Macedonia. I will be in Macedonia. That's
where I'm going to.
I hope to too. Yes, I am. And then Superfinal, buddy. We're going to Mexico.
No more holidays. I don't have enough holidays. You're not going to Superfinal? I can't. I mean, I spent already two weeks and I have a standard engineering job. You know, I have a standard job. job I must cope with 30 days of holidays, and I must also take a few for my family at least, right? That's important. Yes, okay, that's important. I do, I'll do Macedonia, I do the German Open from the long comms, I do some smaller ones in between, but I already looked at the calendar and in shock I realized I don't have enough left for ah
It's too bad it wasn't in January; you need the, you need the flip of the year. But yeah,
Exactly, I already spent two weeks, you know, so which I I normally don't. It took me eight years to come back to Colombia.
Wow. Okay. All right. Well, like you said, we're in no position to cry about it. We're doing all right. But well, good. Well, I'll see you in Macedonia. And I can't wait. And thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it. Thanks for your time.
You're highly welcome. If
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