Thank you.
He's got a lot of risk and flying huge triangles in the Alps. He's from kind of the Kimsey region, which the X-Alps goes through every year. And I always see him kind of ping up on those huge days on X-Contests. So he gets after it, but he's also got a real job and real family and so doesn't have all the time in the world. But he's managed to take a very methodical approach to flying and done really well with it for a long time. He's never had an accident. Talk about that and why and some of the reflections he's had over the years on getting good, going big and staying safe. So I think you're really going to enjoy this talk. I did. We talked a lot about the Olympics, too, which was a ton of fun.
The only bit of housekeeping I have is as we get into the travel season for those in the Northern Hemisphere and I guess Southern Hemisphere going to the Northern Hemisphere to fly is the insurance scheme. And I think that's a big part of the reason why we're still in the middle of the pandemic. And I think that's a big part of the reason why we're still in the middle of the pandemic. The article I have on the website, if you go to cloudbasedmayhem.com and just put in the search term insurance, I am constantly updating that with recommendations. I'm, of course, no expert, but as I have pushed for years and years that we need to have proper coverage in case things go pear-shaped. A lot of our fellow friends who have gotten hurt, especially overseas. They don't have the right kind of coverage. You can quickly run into the six figures and be real painful for family, friends.
You know, we see a lot of GoFundMe kind of things to try to get people home. So don't let that be you. Don't think it's not going to happen to you. Better to just be covered and prepared. It's literally the cup of less than the price of coffee a day kind of thing to get yearly coverage. And this is not just domestic insurance, but travel insurance. And repatriation insurance, evacuation insurance. So I make recommendations there and tell you why. And it's worth going through it and figuring it out, especially before you go off to a World Cup or go off to a competition or just go off to fly and have some fun. Hope you're all having a good spring. There's been some big flights going down lately.
I'm envious. I've been building a house. I've been flying too much. So I'm watching it and getting ready for summer. So. Hope you're all having a great one. Enjoy this really fun talk with my friend, Daniel Turkis.
Daniel, great to have you on the show. I've been really excited to talk to you since we chatted down at the World Cup in Columbia, which was, man, that was fun. And you ended up having a pretty good race. And so we're going to talk a lot about paragliding and comp flying and all that. And I'm going to enjoy the view out your window here. It sounds like it's dumping over there, which is great. I know the Alps needs more snow as we do, but I wanted to start off with the Olympics. You were in Salt Lake for the Olympics and snowboarding. So tell me about that. You know, I had pretty big aspirations as a ski racer and trashed my knees when I was 17 and then 18 again. And that all ended with that. But how did you make the transition and how was it? How was it being in the Olympics? Congratulations.
Thank you. I mean, it's a pretty long time ago. In fact, it's pretty much 20 years. I was going to say it's a 20 year anniversary. Exactly. Yeah, it was 2002, Salt Lake. Well, where should I start? First of all, thanks for having me. I really enjoy your podcast, too. I listen to them regularly on long drives. Regarding the snow, in fact, I don't need it anymore. It's paragliding season now. You know, skiing is over. Yeah, I think it's a bit strange here, the weather. But it will disappear quick, I think. Yeah. Anyhow.
Well, where should I start? I was skiing like you. Yeah. And quite a lot because of my parents were skiing. And then when the snowboarding popped up, I was a skateboarder and also windsurfer. Now more the kitesurfer and always outdoor sports. And then I made the switch to snowboarding. And somehow I was pretty good. Probably also because of my gymnastics background. I also did gymnastics when I was a kid. Yeah. And then, in fact, I first I had a sponsor like from our local shop where I was living back then. And then I was like, yeah, I'm now having a sponsor. So I had some, you know, gear for free. So probably I should do some comps. And that's how it all started. Right. And it was pretty tough because in the beginning, well, I was a skater.
I was a student. I had no money. So I slept in my car.
Dirt bag.
No heating, of course. Right. Yes, exactly. Classic dirt bag. But I somehow enjoyed these comps. And then at first was park and then the pipe riding came up and, you know, and it was still ISF. So International Snowboard Federation. And I kept getting better. So I went from regional comps to German to European. And then suddenly, oh, I'm qualified for the World Cup. I did in total. I did for four years of four seasons World Cup tour during my studies. In fact, I studied mechanical engineering. And this is
all was it pipe? Was it free ride? You know, now now there's a lot more events than what you had even back then. But what's what was what was your specialty?
It was well, first it was park, but then it kind of transitioned to pipe. Okay. And then in the beginning, I was also doing. Some border cross races and big air. So anything basically that came along while you were there already anyways, I never did any slalom or giant slalom. Okay. Stuff like that. You know, with the hard boots, I was always, always a soft boot rider. Okay. Border cross. Yeah. Okay. That you have some, some, some gates to pass. Right. Yeah. And then I kind of was here and the first two years I couldn't travel. I couldn't afford. I didn't have. I didn't have proper sponsors to travel overseas. So the first two world cup years were kind of in Europe, you know, everything you could reach with the car and sleeping in the car there.
And for me, it was like, okay, I want to snowboard, you know, and that was, that was cool. And then I started being better and better. And then I saw, Oh, this is maybe the ticket to see the world. You know, that was a bit of a driver, you know, because I always had like a bit of a travel each and I wanted to see the world. Yeah. And that's basically how it evolved. Yeah. And then I had a sponsor and then I started traveling, you know, proper sponsor. I, then I also made the transition to the ski Federation and because my sponsor went bankrupt as well, a long story, but to make it short, it got better and better and better. And then, um, it was for me to ticket to see the world. So I was in Japan twice. I was in Chile. I was in, um, you know, it's in Lake Tahoe and in Vancouver and on the East coast.
And it's been a great time then. Um, I was already close for the Olympics in Magano in 1998, but I couldn't make it. And then, um, I thought, okay, yeah, well maybe Salt Lake. Um, but it was also really close to be honest. So I really literally qualified in the last possible comp in the last possible run.
Whoa. That's some pressure.
It was me and another guy and, um, we were in the finals and I was second. And he was first. So I had to go, it was reverse order in the last one, two final runs. Right. So you both disappeared in the woods, you know, trying to focus. And I had a really, really, exactly. Yeah. The pressure was really on. And then, um, I did a really, really great run. And I think I finished the comp in the top five or something. And he slammed, he fell.
Wow. That was it. Meant to be meant to be.
Yes. Um, yeah. And then I went to Salt Lake city and that was really cool because, um, okay. Olympics, you know? I mean, that's still, I think for any athlete, it's the, the comp you want to be at, right? It's bigger than worlds or European championships or whatever.
Yeah. That's the mountain.
Yeah. Yeah. And that was cool because there was like a half stadium basically built around the pipe, loads of people and you could choose your music and, you know, like it was a cool event. That
Olympics was beautiful. And it was, you know, they, they did a really nice job. And it was, it was a, it was an amazing event. The whole thing that, that Olympics was this. Have you been
there or did you just follow because you just followed it too far? No, I was, I
was sailing then I was sailing around the world. So I actually didn't even get to see that much of it. But, um, but it was, you know, I, it was, it was weird watching Beijing this year, you know, Salt Lake really kind of lined up better for winter mountain sports. You know, that was, that was kind of bizarre in Beijing. Yeah. I agreed. It looked cold this year too, man. Yeah. It looked miserable. Holy moly. But what, what, so just, I mean, we got to talk about paragliding, but the, the, that experience, um, can you, can you summarize it? I mean, does it still just leave a huge mark on you? It must've been amazing to be part of, I mean, the Olympics. It's, ah, it's a dream.
And in fact, it left a mark because I still feel my shoulder.
Did you crash in it? Did you get hurt in the Olympics? Yeah.
In fact, it was a bit unfortunate. I mean, it was very unfortunate. Um, and while no illusions, I wouldn't be winning them. Right. But I thought, okay, I can be in the finals. You know, I mean, I was an amateur, right. I was studying at the same time and engineer having getting an engineering degree together. And, um, so in fact, I got injured before the comp and not in the half pipe, but playing volleyball after training. Yeah. You know, take to a bit of a cool down. And in fact, you know, I went up to blog and my, my trainer as well, and he jumped on my foot when landing. And so my ankle was fucked one day before the afternoon before.
Yes. Oh, but I sure didn't want to give up. And of course I wanted to do it right. And, um, so I got fixed up as good as you can with tape around the, you know? And, you know, we're not gonna make it happen. painkillers and everything and it was kind of okay i could ride but um and i could also do all the years landing forward like you know not goofy yeah so not i was riding goofy but not backwards like so landing fake the other foot forward yeah because the pressure and the transition it was already super perfect then right i knew my ankle it's tough so i can't take it pressure probably so i avoided this last trick all the time training so i could ride yeah long story short um it was a switchhawk and flip so you know one one flip and two spins basically that's what it was landing
landing fakie and then um my ankle couldn't take the pressure and smack full on on my shoulder dislocated my shoulder and i thought i just had caught the edge you know because it felt like it and then yeah my shoulder was fucked too and my ankle and you had two runs to qualify but i didn't want to give up and you know i had chosen highway to hell from acdc
imagine in utah with the mormons right highway oh they would have been psyched where people just yeah yeah and i was flying high and it was really good and i you hear you know it goes silent and you hear while you're in the air really high and you hear the crowd i didn't hear the music i heard the crowd funny enough i heard the music before the run but in the run i heard the crowd i went up for the second run with more painkillers and then same thing smack again on the same shoulder yeah and then um well i rehab and everything but six weeks later i was in japan for the next world cup and um yeah so i finished that season basically and then i was fifth in the world ranking which wasn't too bad but you know i had to finish my engineering degree too and then i thought okay maybe it's a good time to you know call it a day and um then i finished my career basically um because i wasn't going to go for another four years you know i was already 27 and which is pretty old for you know a half pipe snowboarder you have to yeah
be able to take some impact how
about sean white this year what was he 36 or something i mean it was the the the poundings that i mean the the height and the this it's just such a magnificent thing to watch but i mean they're doing that on ice i mean that basin pipe was just right i mean and it is regardless it's all it's ice no matter where it's just it's hard because you guys are riding it so hard and it's they shape it every day and it's freezing every night and it's just like you know you're 30 feet above the ledge you're what you're 50 feet off the bottom of the pot it's hardcore it's yeah you don't as long as everything you're just broken you
know you just shatter oh that's what i mean you need to take impact and uh it's okay as long as everything you land smooth in the transition right if you're if you push off a little bit too much boom flat yeah or if you push a little bit too little you land on the table right or even worse like just not enough and that's why it's called to disaster right one foot on top and one foot on and it's precision yeah and i also remember in finland also pure ice and you have to go and fly five meter high you know so yeah that's like when when
you when you watch that kind of so i we have a big pipe here at the local hill we've got the big hill and then we've got a little hill where they've you know they have they have the park and the pipe and you know really good athletes come and train here because they've got good snow and they've got good shaping and all you know i don't know anything about that but uh you know they've they've got a really good ski team here too alpine i was always alpine i never did any tricks and i always kind of sucked in the air i wasn't really that good at any of the stuff that you did and but when i watch what's you know this was a long time ago i'm almost 50 you know so this was back in the 80s and early 90s and you know but when i watch these kids now 14 15 16 17 i can't even believe it i i mean i i watch that and go god was i even close to that good you know it gives me kind of the it gives me kind of the creeps i mean the speed and the energy and man it's awesome
like any sport of course it evolved too so basically they're just adding another flip you know and another spin since the time you know when i did it so the level definitely evolved and like the young kids are charging but also you know the the whole training conditions got a lot better and even more professional you know we didn't have these airbags where you can practice your tricks into just didn't exist right right so now you have a bit more of safety to practice you know and of course also back at my time the good guys you know they had all some gymnastics background like me or um diving like um or diving you call it like that right yeah um and um right so that you knew okay this is how i'm in the air you know so that you could do all the tricks but basically we would practice in in the summertime during the summer camps when the pipe was slushy then the impact wasn't so hard right
yeah but it's not like going into balls i mean i mean even even back in your day i mean red bull was building sean his own pipe you know it's pretty hard to go up against a guy that's got his own oh no not
yet sean was a little so he showed up in one of the last comms and was a little kid okay
it was like all right i thought i thought that was his first yeah
he was just coming in right right okay yeah there was a canadian guy called mike michael chuck maybe you have heard about him like that sure of course terry harkinson had just basically retired and sean white was just coming yeah that was i mean now it's
it's got to be a little bit of a change i mean it's it's got to be a little bit of a change like the you know the the people coming into the x-ops for the first time and Chrigel you know one seven in a row i mean you're just you know they're a different level right so you've got two i mean right off the bat here you've got two things that to me add up to just whoa you've got these huge building blocks to be an awesome pilot engineering how many people have we had on the show or how many people do we see in this sport that are engineers it's just over and over and and then flow you know you're obviously a big time flow athlete and a lot of flow history with you know Will Gadd always said that when he when he sees people coming from flow sports whether it be even mountain bike riding but but you know surfing skateboarding snowboarding any kind of flow activity kayaking big one then they just get really good really fast at paragliding and i've often thought it's not just the flow it's the flow of the sport and i think that's a really good example is you know we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're
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I started flying 1997. So at the time of the Olympics, I was already flying for five years. Okay. And I always liked flying, you know, no matter which kind of thing it was, with the snowboard, flying, with the surfboard, hitting the waves, with the windsurfboard, right, flying. Yeah. And kickers and everything. I always loved it. Yeah, but I was a pilot already, and I kind of combined it also, you know, spring training in Davos, for example, you know, first snowboard, then go down to the parking lot, my house, my car. My car is my castle. You
got your skis, your glider, your windsurfboard.
Nowhere to sleep, but you got a lot of shit. Equipment in the car was worth a lot more than the car around it, right?
As it should be, dude, as it should be. That's right.
Yeah. So snowboard. Snowboard in, glider out. And so I kind of combined it already back then. Yeah.
Wow. You were pretty young then, because you said you were 27 when you kind of retired in Salt Lake. So you were early 20s when you were flying. You got here pretty early.
22. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. When I started.
Tell me about that phase, you know, those first five, you know, when you're training for the Olympics and stuff, but you're also piloting. What was that period of your life like? In terms of the flying side, learning it, you know, if you went, if you could go back to that time, would you change anything?
No. No, I don't think so. I mean, I didn't do the standard progression maybe in flying either. Right. So I started flying and then I had all this outdoor sports background and, you know, I knew where I am in the air, you know, and where my arms and legs and, you know, like this. This motion control. Just good self-awareness. Yes. And the flight teacher back then quickly realized that I must have some talent. Right. So in fact, the fifth flight already, he was like, oh, we forgot our radio. Well, you, Daniel, you can go without. It's fine. You know?
And then I kind of started.
He right away recognized you just had a better, you had better perception. You had better understanding of what was happening.
Well, it seems like at least. Right. I felt like, OK, I'm a beginner. And of course, I'm aware. And you need to be aware. What's your skill level? What's your skill set? Where are you? Right. And then what kind of risk or is it risk? Right. Is it the perception? So if I hit a kicker with like, you know, 80 kilometers an hour, your jacket flapping, you know, and you go like really flying 30 meters over the kicker and doing some spinny flippy stuff, you know, an outsider. Would go like fucking nuts. Right. But for me, it was like, no, I'm in control. I know how to handle this. I know how to do it. You know, I know my risk of injury is limited because this trick I done several times. You know, I hit the kicker first straight, of course, before I do any tricks to get used to the kicker and stuff.
And new tricks you would practice into soft snow or powder or whatever. Right. So.
And I was aware, OK, I'm a beginner here. But then. You know, I started already soaring. The wind was right. The conditions were good. All the other pupils were launching below me. I was watching them, you know, without the radio. And then the guy started waving at me that I should like kind of fly out, fly out, you know, like we're done for the day. I was still soaring back and forth. Wow. This is great. Exactly. Working out perfectly. But then. And then it was, of course, kind of exciting that, you know, I went exploring. Where I have. You know, like where I was snowboarding. OK. New mountain. New launch. New landing. New conditions. Kind of, you know, figuring it out. That was, of course, exciting.
But maybe going back a bit. And then I did like my 50 flights. And then I went straight to an SIV. And then I did this SIV also with the same guy. And he was basically a bit of a mentor then because he knew I didn't have money. And, you know, so he always kept giving me some tips. And, you know, so that helped with my progression. And so I did this whole SIV, full stalling, everything. And then I was done with the SIV. And then he was like, yeah, OK. If you like, you can upgrade now. I have a high performance glider here. You know, like if you want to buy it, you can have it. I'm like, really? You know, so I stepped up from like a one to two to a two to three back then. So basically going straight to an E &D. And I'm like, really?
Yeah, yeah. You can handle it. And then I was like, OK. I'll go up here. And that was then over ground already. And he taught me full stall is the reset button, right? I'm like, OK. I'm going up here. I'll do some full stalls, OK? Can you watch me? No? Oh, I handle it. Give me some feedback. And then I went up. And it wasn't best enough. Flew out. Full stall. OK. Went fine. Another one. The three landed. He was like, yeah, look good. And then we made the deal. And he sold me the glider. And then he was like. This is the glider you're going to learn flying with. Properly. Right? Wow. Wow. And since
then. I guess, I mean, for you, for somebody that's really good at aerobatics, SID must have been really boring. Oh, geez. I've done that.
I'm not doing an infinite yet. It wasn't boring. And the infinite didn't exist. It was just when the SUD was also founded. I remember then watching this SUD. On. On tape. Basically back then. Still. Right. No internet. Nothing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so the SUD was just invented, you know, and I was like already flying for three years or so. So what we did were wing overs and spirals and more wing overs and a stall or a spin and stuff like that. Right. And I kind of continued all the time with maneuvers for fun. Right. But I didn't find. I never found it boring. It was always exciting. Right.
Because I knew consequences. You need to focus here. Right. And then of course. Yeah. So did you already fly to the Pinskow Valley? You know, like, no, I haven't like, what do you need to do? And so, you know, so I got into cross country flying. As well.
Were you living, were you living there again in the Northern Alps getting near where you are? Cause you're near Chemsee now. Is that where you were back then too?
During, I studied in Erlangen, which is close to Nuremberg. Which is like two hours north of Munich.
That's where I grew up and I studied and everything. I couldn't afford to move anywhere else to study. So I just stayed home and did everything from there. But once I had finished my degree, it was clear for me. I wanted to be Munich or further south. I wanted to be needed to be closer to the mountains. And that's what I did. And then I was like Southeast of Munich, Southwest of Munich. And so since six years, I'm living where I'm living, which is the closest. To the mountains yet, but always south of me.
This is probably an impossible question, but I'd like to get your take on. If you could, if you could look at what's made you a really successful pilot now and compare it back to then. Which piece of the pie means more? Is it the engineering or is it the flow? Is it the, is it the sport background? How do those two mix in terms of your, your becoming a world-class pilot? Good question.
Neither maybe, honestly speaking. Yeah. I mean, surely there are elements of it, right? So that you have the, maybe a bit of an analytical mind and that you can reflect on what you have been doing and that you can visualize, you know, that comes from the sports that you have been doing a lot outside in the nature. You kind of can read, you know, we had to, you had to read the mountain when free riding or, you know, like. You need to read the elements when surfing or windsurfing or like you mentioned kayaking. Right. And I think that definitely helped, but finally it was just the pure fun. Okay. And maybe also engineers like to optimize everything.
So I also like to get better at stuff, right? It's just fun, a good journey. So, you know, like what can I train next? Where are my gaps? Okay. This is maybe from the sports background where you say, okay, which is, I wouldn't call it like a training plan, but you say, okay, I maybe need to practice my wing overs more, you know, or I want to fly bigger distance or. But finally I also, I devoured basically everything flying. Right. And I think it's a lot of a mind game. In fact, it was one Finnish guy telling me back then snowboard competition, you know. It's all a mind game and he's right. He was right. Right. I mean, we're all good snowboarders. So the, you know, the last final bit is your mind.
I read books, you know, about weather, about, you know, about everything you can have and then go flying a lot. And then if you combine these two, yeah, then you get a better pilot.
That's a really good transition to comps, Daniel. You, you and I talked quite a bit down in Columbia, just about your history at 15th in the world or something right now. You've, you know, you've had, you've had a lot of comp experience, you know, at, at the world cup level, what you hear a lot is for the most part, let's call it, you know, in, in, in Columbia, this was certainly true. Cause it was a very, very high level world cup, the technical ability, you know, in other words, the climbing ability and the gliding ability is pre is within a few percent, you know, from, from in, in the, in the most, in most of the pilots it's, it's within a few percent. Right. So that difference, you know, the winning or the top 10 or, you know, being consistent is here.
It's up, it's up top. It's in your head. It's the strategy. It's the little things. What can you tell the audience about, you know, some of the tips and tricks and things that you've learned or things that focus on, you know, over your last 20 something years of experience when it comes to comps that, that have consistently helped you in results. Maybe
I also need to rewind a bit here because my comp comp experience like classic central comps, 150 people meet or a hundred or whatever, right. At one place and do this thing that we love so much to do is only 10 years from my now 25 years of flying. So before I was kind of the more, the long, some Eagle style, you know, big cross country. So I was doing the online contest, right. Being also multiple German champion. There was a time when I was really, really into this. Right. And I flew some triangles and, you know, then I heard later that some people started calling it, you know, my name, the triangle, the Turkish triangle.
And I was like, Oh, really?
I, I'm a, I'm an ex, I'm an ex contest junkie, buddy. I've been watching your name for years. I think I've even, I've even reached out to you on X contest a few times with trying to get banked. You know,
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Chinese Chinese and then Intal and then Piztal, Kaunertal, Edstal, you know all these valleys so I can tell you all the way to the main Alps ridge and back so I think the biggest back then was like 275 FIA which I did
and so you know then I've been a couple of times German champion I was like yeah okay and now you know so what are we going to do now and and I thought okay maybe I go back to I tried a central comp long long time ago before that you know and I was it was all raining and I was like why would you do that you know like you take your precious holidays to sit in the rain and I was like nah and then we went to Mexico in fact for a holiday and said let's combine it you know I knew there was a Monaco Open and that was my first comp basically like 10 years ago more or less yeah okay wow
that would have been about my first comp probably yeah
it could be in fact I think we you were there I've been twice in Valle and I remember one time we definitely shared a ride to the takeoff and we're having a chat on the ride I don't know which one it was if it was the if it was the first one or the second time I've been in Valle it could be the first one in fact
yeah
yeah that I think that was my first was 2012 maybe it was 2013 was my first but I haven't missed it since I mean well obviously COVID I've missed it but Monarch is special I
agree it's one of the best for me with Columbia for sure Columbia is like you know a softer Valle de Bravo type flying but to answer your question so learning number one was okay you're the lonesome eagle and you're really good at it but in a comp you must be a really really really fucking regal style lonesome eagle but even he stays with the group right so stay with the group is maybe one of the learnings that I learned rather early and it was pretty stressful for me in the beginning to fly with so many people right especially and it's still stressful especially when it's close to the terrain and it's ugly terrain like in DeSantis like cliff face and too many people and you know there is not a lot of room for error
right so I find that still stressful and then I still would fly away for safety reasons basically so that is one it's really really hard to be better by yourself rather than utilizing the swarm intelligence right so that was definitely one learning the other basic I think that is really really important um is you must be able to control your wing the wing you fly no matter what wing it is but um people coming into comms and you know for example the Enzo is flyable for a lot of people but is it really controllable when the shit hits the fan for them you know are they able to control it so that is really I think very important and so when you go to some Chabre open or you know like these newcomer comms or also cross country flying whatever you do fly the wing you are comfortable with and you are in control you know because then you have the mental capacity to focus on everything else
you have capacity to observe what's the weather doing what's the wind doing where's the sun you know like all the cross country flying but also what are the others doing you know why is this guy breaking away what does he see that I don't see you know all these things that add up
or what or what does it or what doesn't he see yeah sometimes it's the opposite who is breaking away
right yes who is doing it who is doing it that's a big one so is it Jansen or is it so exactly I think this is this is really really important and with what I what do I mean with wing control I mean finally if you really simplify it it's all pitch control angle of attack control so the only job you have is to keep the angle of attack in the right window not too big not too small right too big stall too small collapse or frontal so yeah and for that I think every pilot and I also when I sometimes I give a talk you know and ask when should I step up I say okay
you need to know your stall point ideally you can stall the wing smoothly and go enter a nice flyback your reset button flyback be able to spin the wing ideally 180 degrees so that you can basically oh something is ugly here you know I need to quickly turn around which is almost impossible on the aircraft we fly but yes 180 degrees spin so stall point again on one side it's stall point so many accidents happen because people try to squeeze their wing you know around the corner and they stall it they spin it on one side so that is important and then I add to it you should be comfortable flying
ideally full speed collapses on your wing frontals or side collapses best is both and when you're comfortable doing all that on the wing you fly and then when it starts to be boring then you can consider stepping up
so when you have that totally down if that just doesn't even get your heart rate up then you might be ready
yeah but I mean that's of course unrealistic because also my heart rate still goes up when I go stalling and I go stalling a lot because I want to keep current with my practice so in winter time or no thermal time I go stalling
and are you doing that over the dirt or over the water but yeah
so you just go
off your local hill and just get the only SIV I
did over water was this very first one after 50 flights
wow really so everything since then has been over dirt I
don't recommend it to be honest just to be very clear I do not recommend it to the standard pilot population to do it like this but once you are comfortable stalling I think you can do a lot over dirt and I was pushing my limit but this is also maybe I think a good advice for everybody push your limit but push it slowly slowly slowly gradually right and back then it wasn't standard to have two rescues so I had one and then you're okay I have one rescue and so I better not use it I don't fuck it up you know so I would go stalling when I felt comfortable and the conditions were good and everything but I always had wings kind of like I always had high performance wings right in the beginning I wanted to have a wing that could do both that could go like cross country but you could also have some fun with it doing some maneuvers nowadays I have a freestyle wing for that with aqua harness and also two rescues but I never needed my rescues in 3,000 hours of flight 25 years I never threw my rescue because of need of a rescue no never
never wow was it was it hard for you to change from the you know the big FAIs where obviously you're still using a lot of bar to fly you know a 270 FAI in a day but you know for me still even to this day I don't use bar when I go on big flights like I do in a comp you know I mean in a comp you're just stomping all the time and was it was it pretty natural for you to speed wise and speed bar usage wise for you to make the transition from big you know to a big flight you know big XC flights to to comps because it wasn't really for me it was a whole nother learning curve of using bar and a lot of that's because here we fly we go downwind a lot you know we don't have weather to to allow for the FAIs you know we don't have the anthel set up here at all so often we're just going downwind and you just don't need as much bar but but we should probably we should the thing we always talk about is we need to be using more bar you know to go bigger and and but in a comp you're using it all the time it's just for me it's a different mindset you know when I go to a comp okay I'm using more bar
no not for me okay because make ready dictates bar so if you want to fly efficient and if you you need to bring up your average speed otherwise you don't fly 300 or whatever you know 200 plus FAI and and that's maybe also a difference because yeah okay in the beginning you know I wanted to fly from Germany all the way to Italy which I did right so with the wind basically one way I did in the beginning like everybody more one ways realizing okay the second part of the adventure getting home you know just takes also basically a lot of time almost yeah as a rule of thumb it was always okay you fly seven hours one direction you need seven hours to get home right that was like roughly the math behind it and then I said okay I prefer to do something like closed you know flat triangles or FIA triangles of course it's like the best you know FIA triangles this is what you do right if you want to be and this is the sexy one
and thus I was also pushing bar already a lot because well when it's right also in a comp you don't push that was also made a little bit more difficult but you know
we're not gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it we're gonna make it
we're gonna make it we're gonna make it staying with the gaggle, you know, having enough skills to climb as well as the gag, as the lead gaggle and, and picking decent enough lines that you can stay with them. And then phase two is, you know, yassening, I would say it, you know, is pushing. Obviously he's way beyond phase two, but I mean, but in terms of the learning side, you know, you, you push and you bomb out and you, you know, you, you, you take a little bit of ego hit for a couple years and learn how to fly fast, learn how to make your own decisions. And then you kind of start putting it all together in phase three, where you can pimp when it's the right thing to pimp and lead out when it's the right way to lead out, get the leading points, but not be overly aggressive, you know, Russ Ogden discipline.
I think he summarized it very well in the talk with you. I think it was as well. Right. Um, and I agree. So finally it is
to be, a successful comp pilot. I realized that, um, you need to be able to strike the right balance
between attack and control, slow down a bit. Right. Um, also, especially when conditions switch. So the switching gear part, I mean, there are days that are, as you said, crushing bar, you know, like all day long and then there it's climbing. So finally we all, if we all fly full bar, yeah, you can't gain anything, right? Because everybody is flying full bar. So then it's your climbing abilities and your ability. And this is, I think also very important, but very difficult to learn lines, lines, lines, lines,
Columbia, you know, you hit the shitty line, you go from zero to zero, you hit a good line. Oh, I'm catching up with the top guys, you know, like, yeah. And, and all this together makes this game so interesting, complex on one hand, but I think this complexity also makes it a very interesting game to play.
Yes. Don't, don't you feel like, I feel like often it comps there's, there can really be a lot of lemming flying on lines. Do you, do you feel that I've, I often sense that it can be pretty easy to catch up. You know, if you, if you get dropped, if you, if you blow it, you know, even in Columbia, when it's really fast, if, you know, because I feel like, you know, the, the lead gaggle will often stay so glued together in a sense that, you know, like you said, you could be, it can often be a pretty nice place to be, to be just behind that. And you can pick out a better line and suddenly, boom, you're, you're, you can kind of play a little bit of leapfrog, but I find that lines are, like you said, you can, it can destroy you and it can really hero you.
And, but I often see, you know, a whole bunch of people on not a great line and, and just not being searchy enough. I don't know that.
Yeah. Maybe it's because they just want to stay with their group, especially with, when it's the lead group. But I must also say at least on a really high level comp, like in Columbia, it was the world cup or in Gemina or wherever, you know, like we're really all the top, top, top guys come, uh, mistakes are painful. And at least for me, it is ultra difficult. I don't find it so easy to catch up because, you know, then they are smart enough in this gaggle and they spread out a bit in this. Leading gaggle. Sometimes it even splits, you know, and then I've me personally, I find it pretty hard to catch up. Basically it's only possible when they make a mistake or they have some hang up somewhere, you know, because they have to thermal something weak because they raised too much to the ground and, you know, so, but if they don't get stuck and they continue full speed, boom, thermal, full speed, boom, thermal, and they're so good and efficient.
It's important. It's possible to catch up.
Yeah. If they're being efficient. Yeah. I should clarify that. If I said easy, I didn't mean that it's never easy, but the, but the, I've just found that the, the line sometimes can be where you can really grab an advantage and I'm, and I'm not, and I'm not good at them. I'm just saying that if you're, if you're willing to stay searching, just like we are, when we climb, you can often, Oh, you know, and like you said, sometimes it's just, you got to stay with them and hammer bar, even if you're not in a good line, cause you don't want to lose them. But, but sometimes it's pretty worth just moving a little bit. This isn't a very good line. I'm going to just move.
Yeah. Especially flatlands. So I think we must differentiate here, flatland flying versus mountain flying because mountain flying, the line is the line, right? I mean, you don't suddenly start searching over the valley. You stay, you know, you stay, you know, with the model, you know, the model when you, when you paint it with honey and you turn it around, so basically you stay where the triggers are. That's your line, right? Along the ridge, basically. Or if it's ridge racing, like in Bassano or wherever. Yeah. There is only one line like, and that's it. But Columbia or Macedonia or flatlands in general, there, it can make sense to search a bit more.
And there you have more of this impact of lines. I read also now in Brazil, apparently, I also never made it to Baishu. So I always wanted to go. This is torture,
my friend, watching this comp. And they're, they're just starting day seven, actually, right now. And I've never been to Baishu. I wanted to go so bad this year and I had to cancel, but it was, God, it looks good down there. Oh, just seven days.
Yeah. I mean, similar like you, I have other obligations. I have a family and, you know, I have a job and I can't be everywhere. It's impossible. And yes, it's a torture, but I think we, we don't need to cry too loud because we've been in Columbia and it's been really great.
Yeah, it was really, it was really great. It was, yeah. It seems like too long ago. None of us have anything to cry about. Too long ago, too long ago. Well, okay. So that, that's a good transition too. You, so you did the, you know, you did the crusher big flights. That was the real focus for a long time. And I still see you doing that. I know you're still doing that now, but, but you're in your German team a whole bunch of times and you're right at the top. Right. Right now in the world. What are your goals now? You know, you've been doing the racing thing for the last 10 years. You know, I, I've, I've never, I started racing about 10 years ago as well, but I haven't done it at your, your level. I've, I've been more focused on the X-Alps and that kind of takes me out of comps for a year, but now I'm really thinking, I think I'd really like to put some time and energy into that. And at the same time, I think, gosh, is that a worthy endeavor?
I don't know. You know, I'm, I'm curious if, is it, is it something you're still really passionate about? Do you love it? Do you, do you want to keep pushing? That side of things?
Absolutely. I love it. You like, you like racing. I love racing. And, um, I think I still have a long way to, you know, get better and learn. Yes. Okay. I'm in the top 15 of the world, but you know, I, for example, I've never been on the world cup podium, right. Or Europeans. Okay. Europeans. I was six and the world in Argentina, I was nine. So top 10 also, I've been at the world cup top 10, top 10 is a good result, right? Sure. Top 10 is always good, but top three or top five is better. I also, also top 10 in the world sounds better than 15. Um, but maybe that's just a side effect, right?
Um, because like you can't, as, and you talked a lot about it with, um, you know, with your ex-alps colleagues and, you know, these results oriented goals, you know? Thomas Terrier says it as well, right? Uh, it doesn't make sense. It, you can only try to improve yourself and, and your type of flying. And my goal is to become a better bird, let's say, right. Um, be more elegant, be better, be more efficient, be more in control of the wing and be a better pilot still. And I think this journey never ends. And sure. And, and I think that's also the good part about it and flying the comps.
I, I think that it's a bit different because first of all, I haven't won them boom, boom, boom. Like, you know, like with the, with the other thing, like if, if I keep winning everything, okay, maybe it starts to be boring. I don't know, but I don't see that happening because I still have other obligations and I can only do as good as I can do. And I can't do so many comps. So, because so, and, and I cannot compare, let's say to Honora who flies, I don't know, 1000 hours a year or whatever. It's his job to fly, right. Um, so I'll probably never be as good as him, but I'd like to be, and there is potential, right. I can sniff it a bit here and there, and, you know, I have my highlights, but, but I also really do like about the comps is the, the community.
Hmm. The, it's a bit of a social aspect too, right. With it compared to the lonesome Eagle thing, because you meet, like you meet the people all over the world and continues, but a lot of faces have been there for a long time, like you. Right. And so I'm, I'm happy to see you, Hey, Gavin, you know, like, or whoever. And I mean, I don't see you much, um, like, or, or the other side of it, right. So you just see those guys during, and, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, you meet people from all over the world or in Europe and, you know, and I can apply some language skills here, there, you know, I speak Spanish and English and Czech and German. So it's also fun, you know, to speak with those guys and speak with those guys and have a beer together afterwards.
And, you know, it's the thrill, but then also like the community and then, you know, the let's have a beer afterwards. I like it.
It's fun. Daniel, we talked in Columbia that one of the things you're talking about is the, you know, really most proud of, and you've, you give talks about this and I know you talked about it in your, in your podcast, in the, the, the German podcast, um, 25 something years of flying now, no accidents. And as we started the show, you know, you're not risk averse, you're in the Olympics and the pipe, you know? So you, you know, you, you do, you take risks. You're obviously very comfortable with risk, you know, these big flights, the two seventies and stuff in the bigger, you know, these huge FAIs that, involves risk and you're flying in the lead. Um, what do you, what do you chalk up this, this very safe run to?
Luck maybe should be part of it. Um, of course there is, but I think it's, I try to calculate the risk, you know, um, like the risk reward part of it and the best way to mitigate risk. And I think I, I said it before already is skill.
So if you're really skilled and smart, so don't be dumb, right? Um, don't take dumb decisions. Right. And I, and I also had close calls, right? I mean, no doubt about that. So that's why there was a bit of luck involved as well. Um, for sure. Um, but I think it's skills like, you know, in snowboarding or any other sport, surfing, let's take surfing as an example. If you're not a good surfer, you wouldn't even dare to go out in the big conditions, you know, like you wouldn't even manage because first of all, you see the waves, how big they are. And second, you try to go out and you probably don't even manage the shore break.
You could just get spat out. And well, if you'd
never even get there, never even get there, you
probably, you know, will be spat out. Half drunk, half drowned, right? Drowned. Um, and so knowing, being able to assess the conditions
and match them to your honest reflected skill level. I think this is what helps you stay safe. Right. So your skill level must match the conditions you are trying. Yeah. And the wise decisions. Um, so as I said, if it's maybe in the Lee side and I would never, for example, push bar into the Lee side full on when I don't have, let's say a hundred meters, right? Better 150 because 150 is kind of my threshold 50 for the to happen 50 to assess, can I fix it? And 50 for the rescue to work.
But that is already like really on the limit, right?
Yeah, that's close. Yeah. It's very
close. And okay. Then it makes a difference is it for rocky ugly terrain below or is it all a dense, nice forest? And in the worst case, okay, I go down in the woods. It's not nice to be hanging in a tree. I don't want that experience, but trees are your friends, right? A dense forest you probably won't be heavily injured. So also dead you must take into account in your risk calculations. You're not gonna make an Chinese Chinese Chinese Chinese! But having said all that, and I knock on wood here, there is remaining risk, and I think Will Gadd said it as well, which we are taking. But you're taking. I mean, it's called living.
You drive a car. There is risk. You leave the house. There is risk. And so, yeah, but it's too much fun.
Remind me, you had a crazy incident in DeSantis, which that sounded like a dicey. Everybody I've talked to about DeSantis said it was really on the edge at times with the Lee and the wind. And didn't you have a barely clear the ground or something when you had a collapse near the cliff wall? You talk about that? That was crazy. Did I
tell you or did somebody else tell you? You told me. Yeah. You told me. Exactly. Yeah, because we're talking. Yeah, that was one of the closest calls, in fact, I ever had. And typical thing, yes, it was we were racing along the cliff, rocky faces, and there was like a shoulder. And the wind was coming like from the thermals, like on the right side kind of thing. But it was also this like kind of northerly, northwesterly.
Dumping in? Yeah.
And I believe that, you know, I came there and I saw the others climbing away. I wasn't in front front. But, you know, I saw them taking that line and I looked good. And I was like, OK, I'm just going to follow. But when I reached that kind of shoulder, it was ugly air. You know, I felt it. And I was like, ah, no, I don't like that. I, you know, release bar and I want to have more ground clearance. And so as I fly away from the terrain.
I believe. I hit like some sort of road or basically coming a sideways rotor, maybe combined. People can't see me combined with a standard classic downwind rotor. And I'm flying away. And, well, I was still maybe on half bar, but boom, you know, the terrain side of my wing collapsed, which is kind of really nothing you want to have. And so there is my another another golden rule I have. I want to have enough space. To make at least one turn to the terrain. Right. One full 360. Yeah. To have that space.
And I needed it. And I used all my skills I had from, you know, recovering wings. And but it was one of these events where everything slows down. And, you know, like, OK, this is really, really. No, you need full focus. Right. And I managed to recover. And I. I. I. I. I.
I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. Ii Ii Ii Ii!!
Iii
Ii Ii Ii Ii Ii Ii and a good reminder to stay with these golden rules, 150 meters above the ground, enough space to make, to spin toward terrain. And no matter what your skill set is, you might get an, you know, and read the air and anticipate. And, you know, like I kind of felt, ah, it's not, it's getting ugly. And yeah, everything close to the terrain is dangerous.
Yeah, there are things that, there are things that can happen to us that skill doesn't matter too much anymore. You know, if you don't have the terrain clearance, you know, it's, you don't want to, you don't want to be relying on miracles, do you? Yeah,
but skill, I think still helps because it makes a big difference if you impact out of a pendulum because you let your wing shoot or you're skilled enough and aware enough that, okay, I can't recover it maybe, and I don't have enough height. Okay, let's keep the wing above my head no matter what it looks like, but no pendulum. So, and I mean, I visualized a lot, everything, you know, like I do a lot of, and I never, it's not true. I threw my rescue once because it needed a repack. So, and it was in wintertime. Man, I was scared. I would have preferred to do five full stalls rather than throw my rescue because I had never done it.
And so I threw my rescue. I threw straight, you know, and I was like, okay, how high am I over the landing field? Okay, yeah, this should do. Yeah, maybe wait a little bit because I don't want to search for my container, right? Ah, no, but now I'm going to do it. I had a steerable one, and I wanted to try, you know, the steering part of it. It took me a while to position and do, ah, okay, now I throw it, you know, and then I threw it, and the steering part, I mean, the thing opened, and I was looking, okay, my container is going this way, so, okay, let's release the glider here, and then, okay, now we could start steering. Oh, no, the ground's already here, so, yeah.
It all happens pretty quick. Yeah, the videos that Urs Hari puts out are really terrific for that because he's doing it every day, just over and over and over again, and it makes you realize how much there is to do, you know, disabling the wind. I did the same thing with the, I flew, I threw down in Columbia, a bunch of years ago on the EVOX on a practice day, and right when I got there, everybody said, oh, you know, roll the NEO is different this year. It's all spicy, and it's really strong, and I had just come from Menarca, and I just, get out. What are you talking? This isn't, it's not strong in Columbia, and it was pretty strong. Anyway, I lost my wing, and when I went to throw, I actually waited for quite a long time because my wing was okay. It was just, you know, I was too low to try to do something else.
I wasn't comfortable trying to do something else because there was lots of power lines, and so I thought, okay, I'm just going to fly out over the bench because I was back over the, you know, and it drops away, and I thought, okay, I'm going to fly because there was a little teeny tiny field. Otherwise, it was all just forest, and I thought, okay, I'll get to windward of that teeny tiny field, then I'll throw. I mean, I have lots of time to think about this, and I'll throw, and I'll steer it in, and maybe I'll just be able to relaunch from there, you know, and it's because I had a steerable, so I did. I did all that, but by the time I threw, and duh, I was on the ground. I mean, there were, I never even got to the chance of trying to, it takes a while, you know, and I was able, I just packed it up and flew out of there. It was great. It all worked out really well, but yeah, it takes a bit of time. I mean, disabling the glider is, that's a big step, you
know? Well, I have quick outs for that reason. Yeah, I think it only makes sense. Yeah, that's great.
I have that with my Acro kit. I need to have
that on my XC kit. I have quick outs. I have a release system for my bar. I basically, boom, and I use it. And it's, maybe we haven't talked about it, but passive safety. So that's also an important part for me. So yeah, two reserves.
God, I have a whole nother set of that stuff. I need, I just haven't put it on my, with my, Yeah,
so I have them for various reasons, right? Mainly because of the Rogalo, because then it's more easy and faster to, okay, boom, then gone, right? Or you have it on one break or whatever. And then the whole system works a lot better. Number one. So put it on. Second, I use them already when I was landing backwards, you know, in howling wind. And, you know, then I just touch down and the moment I touch down, I do bling. And my wing is completely disabled, right? I'm not being dragged through any fuel.
You just, you just, you just get rid of one? Both. When you do that? I did
both. Oh, you just let it go. Okay. Well, basically you keep your brakes, right? And then your wing is, you know, landing softly on the brakes, even howling wind and you can easily manage it. So that's another reason. And well, who knows? Um, you have some shit going on. You, you, you, you mess up river, even a Creek, whatever you want to be able to get rid of it. Yeah. And, um, for, for that reason, I also carry a hook knife, a big fucking proper knife, you know, with a proper handle and it cuts everything. I tried, it cuts like through four layers of webbing, like butter, like, right. So, um, I've never used it. I never, you, the, you know, I,
but I heard stories also people coming down on rescues, you know, one on one almost disappeared in a, in a crevice in a glacier, you know, because when do you pull rescue when it's ugly and howling and really ugly, right? Otherwise, why wouldn't we need a rescue normally? Right. And so I want to be able to cut away the rescue. Um, on the other guy, I know he did, he was dragged into a ravine and he, he ended up being like, he was bandaged like a mummy top to toe. Um,
from just getting pulled through the stuff. Yes. With
high winds. So
that's another reason I think, um, it's good to carry, um, a proper hook knife. And certainly, and this is, I think also big danger. Um, and that's why I think we should all be very, very friendly and very respectful with each other in this gaggles.
And then a collision that is, yeah. And I, I, um, so as soon as I should have any lines around my head or neck, you know, I just take the hook knife and cut everything away. Like, you know, I will go ballistic with a hook knife all around myself before pulling the rescue. Yeah. Get rid of it. Get rid of that stuff.
This is the, uh, this is the, this is the one side of the sport that, that I, I frequently find, um, in a sense, when you're at a world cup, you feel better about being really close because everybody's really good. But you know, we had a, the world cup in Turkey, this, this fall, I don't know if it was because there was, there was a lot of pilots there that had never been in a world cup. There was, you know, it was, uh, there was 30 or so spots open, I think, cause of COVID and everything else. So I don't know if it was that, but there were, it was insanely aggressive. And, uh, um, especially before the start, which just infuriates me. And I, I, I find that, you know, we don't, we don't see gliders blowing up that much, you know, these days, what we see is mid airs.
And that, that part of it is spooky. I don't like that. And I, and it does, it's unnecessary too.
But I haven't, I haven't seen many mid-airs and basically the gaggles I choose to fly with. Um, of course, obviously it's the good ones, so if I fly with the good Frenchies, I am daring to go really close with them or with the really good Germans, you know, um, it's cool because I know everyone is away. Everyone is watching it. Everybody, you know, like, um, and they react as well. I had once also in the sentence, by the way, but the one previous world cup, I was circling together with Ferdi, you know, and, and I took a collapse on the outside and kind of, well, you know, it lifted me and kind of spun me towards him. And, and I was like, ah, he was like, I, I got no worries.
I see you, you know? So he just made some space and we continued thermaling together. I didn't lose a lot of height or anything. Right. But just for a second too, I wasn't able to steer my glider where I want it to go. Right. Because of course, when you have a big collapse and it's a Lee thermal and you're being punched up with six meters per second and you know, half of your wing is missing. Well, you're not steering so much, right? You're fixing, you're fixing, you're not steering, you're fixing it. And, and then it of course helps when you have really good pilots around you that can also, for example, quickly spin the wing, you know, to make space for you if necessary or whatever. Yeah.
Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It's surprising when you're, when you're with the lead gaggle, how, you know, nobody's, nobody's worried about too much, you know, you're, you're nice and tight on everybody and, and it's all just, I love that. I love that motion, you know, the motion of the birds and every, we were all just so in tune. I mean, everybody's trying to beat each other, but you're also just working together and you know, you could just be within inches and it just, nah, he's got me. I got him. We're good.
Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. And you know, you see the grin under his full face helmet.
I, at least that's what I imagined. You know, I'm having a green and I'm imagining the other guy having a green and we're enjoying ourselves. The Vario is screaming and we are going up and yeah, you know, we got the ballistic thermal. Go for it.
We're all adding wrinkles to our eyeballs and mouth and mouths every time we fly. Aren't we just from the smiling and
people are not having polyps. This, this level of people, we are not having polyps. The thermal, you know, the people are in control. Yeah. But it's cool. No, it's cool to be part of it.
That's cool. That's cool. This, this may be too obvious of a, of a question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. We, I read in the commentary when we were down at Columbia that honor and has been on the podium in 40, I think she said 41 % of the races he's been in, which is just mind blowing. I mean, I, I can't imagine there's anybody else that's even at 10, but you know, we, uh, there's, there's all the obvious things what you see a thousand hours a year or whatever it is, you know, that this is his job. But what, what are the things that maybe aren't so obvious? You know, what, what are the things, why is he so consistent? Cause that's incredible consistency. I
don't know. I asked him, he doesn't know. I mean, he's probably also just a really good talent and he has a good headspace. And, you know, he's observant. But if he's just doing less mistakes than we do, right. I mean, we all do mistakes and the little mistakes is maybe just little mistakes and also little mistakes add up. And so maybe he is doing least mistakes.
I don't know if I would know it. I would copy it. Try to.
We all would. Yeah. I think it's all the pieces. And because it's such a complex, complex game, I think it's really hard to pinpoint it down to one thing, right? It's impossible. I think, I think he's just really good in all aspects. I mean, he's just from another planet. Maybe, maybe, maybe he's an alien. I don't know. He's putting that jigsaw together. Maybe, maybe he was, maybe he was a bird in his previous life or whatever. I don't know. I mean, Luke is also really good. And I mean, there are many, I often, there are more. And, and, and Russ, I mean, like, you know, he shows up and he's consistent to experience.
Surely experience is also part of it. You know?
Yeah. I was just going to say, I mean, you just threw out three names that fly almost every day. You know, they're flying in Gordon and they're testing wings and they're out, they're out on the Hill almost every day. And, you know, so there's no magic here. Is there, it's just time, you know, and experience. Hours, hours, hours.
Yeah. Hours. And hours help. I mean, luckily we're not flying. No, we are not running marathon where, you know, you need to consistently train, train, train, or you lose your physique, right? You lose it. If you, if you stop running for a week or two, like, yeah. Or, you know, it about the excerpts, right? You need to build it and it takes long and you lose it quickly. All this endurance stuff. So it's not so much the endurance that we need. Right. So you can have a break for a month and you can still be good. Right. But of course it helps the more hours you have, the better you fly. It's these nuances, right? You have better wing control. You climb better. You feel more comfortable.
You, you climb 0.1, 0.2, whatever better than because you're so current. So surely the hours are part of the game, but there are people that, yeah. Yeah. Maybe don't fly so many hours and still show up and boom, you know?
Yeah. It's it does. It does seem like there's a bit of a key, you know, in, in the game where, okay, you're right. The honor and the Luke's the Russ there, they're at another level, but you know, when you, you do see a lot of consistency at these world cups, you know, race after race after race. And it seems to me that there are, there are pilots to have somewhere along the line have gotten the key. They've, they've gotten the golden key and they've unlocked the door. And to them, like you said, it's, it's not quite like riding a bike, but it's pretty close. You know, they, they have figured out the little things that, in other words, it's not just totally crazy. You know, we, we all have good days. We all can show up at a comp and just have one and have a good comp, but, but to do it all the time is, isn't, to me is another level.
Yeah. There are some people that are really consistent. Julian builds Chalco. So, you know, they're also really consistent. I mean, they may be, not winning, but Ulrich, Prince, you know, they show up at a comp and, or Ferdi. So a very good example, right? They show up at the comp and they're in the top 10. Yeah. Well, let's say in the top 20 % for sure. Yeah. Right. Pretty much always. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel, what a treat, man. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we got to do this. It's good to get to know you a little bit better and also just can't wait to fly with you. So more man, I got all fired up in Columbia and I'm building the house this year, so I'm not going to be able to do it as much, but hope to see in Macedonia. I will be in Macedonia. That's
where I'm going to.
I hope to too. Yes. And then Superfinal buddy, we're, we're going to Mexico.
No more holidays. I don't have enough holidays. You're not going to Superfinal. I can't. I mean, I spent already two weeks and I have a standard engineering job. You know, I have a standard job. I must cope with 30 days of holidays. And I must, I must also take a few for my family at least. That's important. Okay. That's important. I do Macedonia. I do the German open from the long comms. I do some smaller ones in between, but I already looked at the calendar and in shock, I realized I don't have enough left for.
Ah, it's too bad. Wasn't in January. You need the, you need the flip of the year, but yeah,
exactly. I already spent two weeks, you know, which I normally don't. It took me eight years to come back to Columbia.
Wow. Okay. All right. Well, like you said, we're, we're in no position to cry about. We're, we're, we're, we're doing all right, but well, good. Well, I'll see you in Macedonia and I can't wait. And thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it. Thanks for your time.
You're highly welcome.
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Bye.