Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. And a couple of quick things of housekeeping here. The first is, many of you know, I'm a Cortel dealer and been getting a lot of requests lately for harnesses, the new Cannibal and that kind of thing. Just a heads up that Cortel is not alone here, you know, coming out of the whole COVID thing and all the supply chain problems. If you're wanting a wing or a harness or anything, pretty much across the brands, as I understand it, the wait times right now are really, really long. So be thinking about that. If you're hoping to get something for this summer, you're probably already too late. So just be thinking about that. And whoever you get your gear from, reach out and get stuff, get in the queue, get in the line.
Because I know a lot of people are pretty disappointed. They're not going to be able to get their stuff for comps that they have this season and that kind of thing. So. So that's just the nature of the beast right now. The other thing I wanted to mention Skysight. We did a podcast with Matt, the main developer there, quite a while back. And I have been using this platform a lot more lately. And it's just absolutely terrific. So I just wanted to give them a little bit of a shout out. Their models are fantastic. We used them a lot in the X-Alps. And I've been thinking about them lately. Because my guest today is Benjamin Kellett down in New Zealand. He makes these incredible films. Go to the show notes to find all the links. But look them up on YouTube.
He makes these amazing films about his bivvy trips down in the Southern Alps, down in New Zealand. And really good instructional stuff and amazing audio. He's a terrific filmmaker and editor. So the talk I had with him is great. But you'll hear in the show we talk about SkySight quite a bit. And it's one of the forecasting tools he really relies on down there. So check it out. SkySight.io And let's get into this talk with Benjamin. Benjamin came onto my radar because of our editor, Miles Connolly. And said, hey man, you've got to check this guy out. He's doing some really cool stuff. And I looked him up on YouTube and got sucked into the film vortex that he's been making there.
Right deep down in the rabbit hole. And his films are amazing. They're really fun. And he's obviously putting a ton of effort into it as kind of a passion project and kind of just sharing the stoke of paragliding. So as you'll see in this show and as you'll see in his films, he's a very consummately optimistic guy. And he's incredibly stoked on the sky crack and having a lot of fun. So we talk about his gear and his how he forecasts and how he approaches bivvy, how he got into it and where he's going. And it's a lot of fun. So enjoy this talk with, actually, I was going to say Kiwi, but he's not. He's a Brit, but he's been down in New Zealand for a long time now.
And enjoy this talk with Benjamin Kellett. Cheers.
Benjamin, great to have you on the show. I'm really excited that our editor, Miles, put me onto you because it sucked me into the down the rabbit hole watching all your films. Fantastic stuff, man. And I've been in that side of the game. Not as much in the creation side like you have, but I know how difficult that is. And I understand you're doing all your own editing and we'll have the links up, obviously, in the show notes to your films. And so our listeners can go and watch what you've been doing down in New Zealand. But fantastic stuff and really excited to talk to you.
Oh, thanks, mate. Thanks for having us on. And yeah, I mean, you don't know this, but you've been my hiking companion for many years now. And yeah, what you're doing is amazing. So, yeah, I'm really stoked to be a part of it. So thanks for having me on.
Oh, wicked. Well, you know where I thought we'd start because I don't know it. Tell me your history of flying. How'd you get into this? How long you been doing it? And when did you start making the films?
So I couldn't really tell you why I started paragliding. It was kind of just one of those things that just happened. You know, like I think I just had some. Yeah, I did know absolutely no research. I hadn't really no idea about it. I didn't know you could fly cross country or any of this stuff. In the beginning, I just thought it was sled rides. You know, so I mean, it was seven years ago living in Queenstown and obviously there's a lot of tandem flying here. So I see them flying off the gondola and all of this. And I think I just had like, you know, I had the spare 250 bucks one day and I needed a new hobby. It's summer. So I go out to Flight Park, which is our local spot and did the intro day. The intro day, they just sort of teach you to launch and land. You know, it's just an introductory. And at the end of the day, they go, well, if you come back tomorrow, you can fly off Coronet Peak.
I'm like, oh, well, I'm going to do that. I'm going to come back and fly off the Coronet Peak. That's going to happen. And then that just totally got me. And throughout the rest of the course, yeah, I just, you know, just learned more and more and more. And they told me, oh, you can do this. You can do aerobatics. You can fly long distance and you can access these cool places and you can go up to the cloud and like, oh, well, this is, this is me. I'm, I'm set. This is wicked. But yeah, like I learned in New Zealand, I'm originally from the UK, so yeah, some might pick up. I've got a bit of a. Congral accent at times. Uh, yeah, I moved here when I was, yeah, yeah. I moved here when I decided to start saying yeah, nah, yeah, nah, and stuff like that. That'll be why. But, uh, I, yeah, I moved here when I was 19. So I've been here knocking on 11 years now. Um, I originally came here to snowboard.
Um, but you know, so skateboarding led me to snowboarding, snowboarding brought me to the mountains and, and, and the mountains gave me paragliding. Um, but yeah, yeah, full, full blown home. Now I
recognize. Coronet peak, right. Right. Off the. Bay. Back cause that, when I was young, I was really into ski racing and that's one of my fondest memories was skiing Coronet peak. Do you guys remember, do you remember, uh, one of New Zealand's most famous racers? A guy was a guy named Simon. Why Rootney was on the national team for a bunch of years, just a mad skier. He was insanely fast. And, uh, I got to follow him down Coronet peak years ago, a bunch of air. It was fantastic, but I wasn't a pilot then. And that's what struck. Me in your videos was I, you know, I, I wasn't a pilot when I was in New Zealand, it was a long time ago, but it was, uh, you can top land anywhere. It just looks terrific for what you're doing for vol biv and for multi-day assaults on the mountains.
I didn't realize that. I mean, I, I've, you know, I saw Nick name and stuff and I I've seen people doing these, you know, really cool South to North traverses kind of thing, but I didn't realize the terrain was so I, I, I always think of New Zealand. I mean, I, I always think of New Zealand as being treed and, and wet.
Um, it depends which side of the divide you're on. Um, but yeah, certainly the west west of the divide is very wet and we get predominantly the weather coming from the west and it also dumps on the west coast and it's a bit of a jungle out there, but east of the divide, which is most of the island is, is totally fine. I mean, there are some areas further north where you've got some more pine trees, um, and there are some areas where there's some beach trees, but certainly the Bush line sits up at like 1500 meters. So even where. There is trees and stuff. You, you, you can totally land top land and camping, keep going. The only thing that holds us back is the weather. I mean, at the end of the day, we are a mountainous country. That's just sort of risen out of the sea. So it does get complex at times and, uh, you can get some gnarly sea breezes and things like that. And we don't often get really long stretches of good weather, but certainly there's some like three or four days and that it's just, it's just brilliant.
Yeah. It is really a great place for, for Volpit, you know, and I think, I think New Zealand will naturally. Like sort of breed Volpit pilots, because in order to do, um, good distance here, you kind of have to fly into terrain that requires you to be prepared to stay out for a few nights and, you know, so if you want to do some big cross country, start getting the gear and thinking about it, even if you're not inclined to do Volpit in the first place. And before you know it, you're doing Volpit and you're having the best time and he has a really good crew and the scene is growing here massively, which is really exciting.
That's really exciting. So there's, there's more and more pilots every year. It's it's, it's. Growing sport in New Zealand?
Exponentially, like, well, say, say specifically with vol biv. So yeah, we're increasing pilot numbers, but what, what's really happening and especially, you know, we can thank COVID for this a lot is that a lot of people have got more spare time now. So we've, we've got a lot of tandem pilots that work here and a lot of people that work in the industry and a lot of people who fly that maybe got full-time jobs, but with all that extra time now, and you know, New Zealand's been locked off to the rest of the world for, for a couple of years, you know, been a bit of a hermit. So the tourism industry has died and everyone's just got this extra time and everyone's just sending it out the back. It's great. So the level of pilot is exponential. So, you know, if you, if you go back, um, uh, Tim Percival, he put, um, he's, um, he's on the comp committee here.
He put a really interesting article up in our, our magazine airborne, and he's comparing statistics of our community year on year and the distance in which everybody's flying. And, and it's just, it's going through the roof. Everyone's just improving and skilling up and having a blast. So, yeah, yeah. It's pretty exciting to see. It's pretty exciting to be a part of. And yeah, the community's in really good health.
Did you get into vol biv pretty quick then? So, you know, you go up to Coronet Peak the next day, you fly and then start realizing the potential pretty quickly. Cause I was the same way when I first flew, I thought you just launched off the mountain and landed at the parking lot. I had no idea. It wasn't until I saw the X-Alps that I went, wait, what?
Yeah. Yeah. What are those people doing? Yeah. Um, it's kind of a. You know, it took me, um, a couple of times of, uh, having some pretty rubbish attempts at flying cross country that quickly put me in areas that I had to walk for, for long periods. And I thought, you know, what am I like spending the rest of the day walking out? This is a pretty cool campsite, you know, like you could probably just stay here and do it. And then you start thinking what, what really got me into vol biv as well is that there was places that I wanted to fly and they seemed really cool and, and, and, but they're quite remote. So you have to be prepared. So you just start getting the gear and, and then you go, and then do you know what, what I'm going to do today is I'm, I'm planning, I'm going to go and stay out. And, and that completely changed my mentality. Um, and that's been a big, big step for people flying cross country here is that if you stop worrying about bombing out in the back and having to walk for days and start thinking, I'm going to go and bomb out the back and go camping and it's going to be awesome.
Then you most likely just fly right through there and, you know, and you're just not thinking about it anymore. And it really changes the way we fly. And that's, that's kind of what happened to me. Um, I, I started going, I want to go camping and then those two things happened together. And then I started flying further and further and then the adventure just got bigger and bigger.
For, for those who haven't flown in New Zealand, we were talking before we started recording, you were saying about the remoteness that, you know, it's the South Island is quite a bit more remote than, than the North. But you were saying you're, you don't really ever get too far away from towns, villages.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, like you can. Quite easily, like there's not many towns and villages, there's, there's not really any public transport, there's no trains, there's no real bus services apart from the ones that go around the cities, which we have few of, um, some valleys have got roads up them, um, some don't. Some of those roads are dirt roads that only have, you know, a couple of cars coming up and down a day, but more or less, I'd say, um, with a good set of walking legs on you, you should be able to get back to at least an unsealed road within two to three days, especially if you stay east of the divide. Mm-hmm.
If
you start going west of the divide. If
you start going east of the divide,
your, your hours per kilometer start going through the roof because the bush is just so thick. Yeah, it's pretty heinous. Um, but, and there's some, there's some places like that east of the divide that I've, I've found as well. But, um, but yeah, generally speaking, two, two, two to three days max, you know, and if you decent level of fitness, you should be able to get back out again, which for me is, you know, like if I start flying somewhere like, if I muck up and I've got a week full of bushwhacking and I'm not really so keen anymore, but two days. Is enough that it's an adventure and it's exciting and that, you know, you've got that capability to get out and go camping and there's huts, there's plenty of huts around that are all, you know, some of them have spectacular, some of them got heaps of character and most huts are sort of one day's walk in between each one.
Um, so there are facilities, but yeah, for me, it's, you're, you're exposed, but not like, you know, we're not flying in Pakistan. It's, it's, um, yeah, it's exciting.
Your videos do a really good job of describing. This, uh, but how, how do you, how do you plan these trips? Are you, are you literally just launching from Queenstown and flying the weather and where you end up is where you end up or have you got, have you typically got more of an objective?
Yeah. So yeah, it's really, it's just to the weather, but in the sense that I do, I do plan the flights beforehand and I have an idea of the direction in which I want to go and which areas I think are good. And that plays a part in, um, you know, like you, you sort of take that into account on the day and it's sort of translating the forecast into what's, what's really going on. But I'll, you know, I spend sometimes, and especially, especially at the beginning of the season when I'm really hungry for it, I'll spend a lot of time planning and I'll spend, you know, days before. And I'd sometimes, I have a joke with my mates. They're like, where are you going flying? I'm like, I don't know. I haven't looked at the forecast for eight hours yet. And I'll be like, I've still got another six to go. Um, but yeah, I'll pour over it a lot because, um, you know, that's the thing. Because it's such a, it's a small island and it feels like quite a technical flying place is that some areas can be excellent.
And then just, you know, the next valley over can be quite different and not very good. So I'll pick the area that I think is really good. And on the day, just go with it and go and see how far and I'll have like a best expectations and a worst. I'll say, you know, like worst case scenario, I'm going to take off from Coronet Peak and I'm going to glide to the next mountain and we'll walk up it and I'm going to camp. Cool. That's a good trip. What's better than that? Well, the next mountain. And the next mountain after that. And then, well, what if I get to this place? I mean, I mean, you know, and you sort of start, you know, it's kind of a normal thing, I guess. But, um, plan for the, what seems unachievable and, um, anything in between is just spectacular. See how
it goes. Yeah. What are you using for forecasting?
Skyside. Yeah. Mostly Skyside. So, yeah, I've used some of the other, um, I use a bit of, bit of windy for general airflow. Um, but more and more, um, I'm just relying on Skyside, which does a pretty good job here. I mean, it's like anything. It's not completely foolproof, but it is, it's pretty spot on most of the time.
And do you use their, just their model or using, are you, do you have HR3 down there too? Um,
I just use their model. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't, I don't swap between models on that one. I do on windy. You can, it's quite easy to jump between the two, but yeah, Skyside, I just use that.
And then once you're, once you're out of Queenstown, is your cell, do you have pretty decent cell coverage where you go in these places? Or are you, are you then relying on inReach?
Oh, inReach. Yeah. Um, you get cell reception when you're above sort of two and a half thousand meters in, in most places. But yeah, as soon as, literally, I mean, as soon as you walk around the back of Coronet Peak, it's, you've got no, yeah. Even on the summit, you don't, you don't have. That's it. Yeah. Yeah.
So, so forecasting wise, are you, say you're going out for a three day when you leave Coronet, you've got, you know, pretty good forecast, but it starts to deteriorate as the days go by. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do
You have any messages?
on inReach to give you updates or are you just looking at the sky?
Yeah, a bit of both really. So I, I usually, um, we'll have a pretty detailed look at the forecast before I go. Sometimes I'll take screenshots, um, but I just usually try and memorize it. And then, but like, like anything, any forecast anywhere, probably the, um, the forecast changes and it can change rapidly. So I usually just get updates sent to the inReach that, um, uh, mostly for safety. Um, and some in some aspects towards instability and potential, but mostly like what's the wind strength on the surface, what's the wind strength up high. Um, am I going to get any gnarly sea breezes and does it look on for me to keep going? And it usually that forecast will fit inside 160 character text. That just gives me a bit of a gist.
And then with that, I'll just go with the day. But some, sometimes I'll, I'll be flying and, um, you know, just before I start falling, you know, lower or I'm thinking I'm getting nearer. At the end of the day, I might give a mate a ring and see if they can screenshot some stuff and send it to me. I've done that in the past. And that's been, been super helpful when I know I've got some mates at work, you're watching the tracker and stuff. Yeah.
Are, are you, is New Zealand really prone on the South Island, you know, on the sunny days is a, is a sea breeze effect almost guaranteed?
Yeah, not every day, but most days, um, it's a bit of a trick to try and predict which side of the island it's going to come from. It does kind of depend on where you are. And, and there's some aspects. To it that I don't really fully understand myself, um, with the, you know, high pressure on low pressure on which side of the island, but generally speaking, you can say that the sea breeze in Queenstown, it's always going to come from the South. Um, what time it comes through will vary day to day, but on the really big unstable days, you get strong sea breezes, which are gnarly if you're away from the divide, but at the same time, and this is something which is, um, I've really over the last few years, that's been a bit of a, a light bulb moment with, with my own flying. Is using those. To, to extend the day rather than the end of the day, because we get some pretty cool convergences that, that happen out here.
And a lot of those are triggered from sea breezes, but yeah, you get in sometimes in the valleys and often the valleys are quite wide. Um, so it's not overly dangerous. I mean, as long as you can land backwards in a paddock, you're pretty sweet. Yeah, you can, you can, you definitely put you on the deck if you don't use it in the right way, but we get easterly coming up through a Marama and that, and that feeds a beautiful convergence that leads up towards the Benno. How's that? Yeah, it's a pretty interesting spot.
You said that you said the sea breezes are much stronger when you get away from the divide. So they're, they're really strong out in the flats and when you're up in the mountains, they'll kind of split it.
Yeah. Well, it's sort of where the mountain, so they are strong out in the flats. Um, so you've got some areas where you kind of have foothills that lead up towards the main mountains and at the mouth of the mountains where it all starts. And again, you get them squeeze points, which aren't generally close to the divide. So my general tactic to try and avoid getting decked in the sea breeze is to just push away from the coast and get close to the divide. The closer you get to the divide, I find that the more chance you get of linking into some kind of convergence or actually weakens out. Sometimes they do come all the way up the valleys, all the way to the head, but usually by then you should be able to soar it. But yeah, there are some valleys that you'd certainly want to stick away from because they get pretty narrow, even at the mouth of them and for the length of them.
But what?
Well, tell me about your kit. I, we should have prepared this in advance so you can look at a list or something, but maybe you've got it memorized, but what, what, what's your typical kit and be real detailed about, you know, when you go off for three, you know, your, your typical kind of triangle bivvy.
Yeah. Okay. So, um, I, it does vary, um, as it probably does with everyone, but, um, you know, like if I'm like, if I'm going for like three sort of three days, obviously in reaches a mass, like I wouldn't. And, and that's one of the things and that, and just, just as a side note, that's something that, um, that has really changed in the community here and probably, um, internationally as well is that the, the respect of using something like that and how important it is to use it. So me personally, if I get to the top of the mountain and I don't have my in reach, I don't go, it's just too much of a, you know, I slapped myself on the wrist, but I go back. But anyway, yeah. So in reach and then I'll, I'll, I'll fly with a tent. Uh, I've got a two, two man tent. It's a big tent. It weighs a kilo.
Um, it's an ultralight tent. It's a big Agnes, but it's got plenty of space inside. This is one of my more luxury items. I've definitely spent a bit of weight on having a nice tent. And I'm with you, man. I like a big
tent. I like to be able to sit up and totally. Yeah. I
dig it. I want a house. Yeah, exactly. I, it's my Chateau Chateau. Yeah. I, I like to have my gear out. I like to be able to pack up my gear inside my tent. I like to sit in there and make food. And, you know, like for me, it's about having a good time. So if I'm not having a good time, I'm like, what am I up to? I'm suffering. I'm getting covered in like mildew and condensation and, you know, it's just, I'm drying gear out and I can't, it's hard. So, yeah, I, I spent a bit of extra weight on the tent. I take a sleeping bag, um, sometimes, um, mid to late summer, I don't bother. Cause wrapping up in the glider is absolutely fine. Um, and sometimes you just don't need it. Uh, and, uh, yeah, thermo rest or what, like a inflatable mattress, a lightweight inflatable mattress. Yeah. And then what else do I take?
Yeah. You take a stove or you just, you
just make fire.
No, no. I take a stove. I take, I've got one of those tiny, um, BRS, you can get them on Ali express and they weigh 28 grams and they just screw to the top of a, uh, butane, you know, the little gas canisters. Yeah.
MSR has one of those too. They're great.
Yeah. Super. They weigh nothing. And to be honest with you, like I bought it three years ago and I was expecting it to break, you know, almost immediately cause it's pretty fragile, but it's lasted this whole time, which is incredible.
Yeah. Yeah. I've got the same one. Those are great. I've been using it for years. Yeah.
So I use that and, um, I've got a little 750 mil titanium cup. Um, and I take with me food wise. Yeah. It kind of depends on the mood sometimes. And sometimes I don't take the stove. I just take like wraps and cheese and salamis and things. But, um, more often, especially this season, I've been taking, uh, instant mashed potatoes being my go-to super cheap, super easy. You don't have to wait for it to cook. And I just throw Brie in it and salami and. And pesto and things like that. Um, yeah. And noodles and, and, and things like that. But I just really like having a hot meal and I'm out the back, you know, it's something to do and it's enjoyable. So yeah, I like taking the stove. I can make coffee and, and, and things like that.
Yeah. I often find on bivvies, you know, you can do the little morning sledder, but you can also just sit there for four hours, let it warm up and have a really nice time. You know, if you've got your espresso, you know, your little thing for making some coffee and you got a little book or some podcasts or whatever downloaded, then I don't know, I like chilling.
Not, not, it's not very often that I'll make a sled ride in order to walk up the next hill. Like I'll totally opt for, if I have to, if I'm, if I slope land the day before and I land halfway, I'll use that morning to walk to the top. So I've got the best chance and then I'll chill at the top and, and make breakfast and stuff like that. But if I'm already on the top, I'm just going to kick it and, you know, make some food and yeah, enjoy myself. Yeah. In terms of, in terms of other kit. Yeah. Floating. I use the XC Racer. I take a lot of power. What I do for power is mostly I'm just going for sort of two or three days. So I just take power banks. Um, I don't really run the solar too much. Um, I have done it a bunch of times, but for me, like, I mean, if I was going for longer than three days, I'd take it, but here for New Zealand, especially to get more than three days of flyable weather in a row, usually you'll get three good days and then you'll get three bad days, um, and by that time, usually I'd check out, um, I've had my fun.
Um, so I just take power banks and, but to be honest with you, because all the camera gear, especially like last season, wasn't so bad because I wasn't running a 360 camera, but this, this year I do about 10,000 milliamps per day. Um, and that's just cause I run a 360 for the whole flight. Most of the trips. So that's,
that's, you got that plugged in. You're not, I mean, it's the, the cameras plugged into your battery bank the whole time.
Totally. Yeah. It would do maybe an hour and a half without the power bank. Um, but it, it just chews. Through power like it's, um, yeah. So you're using one of
those kind of anchor, 10,000 milliamp battery, you know, lithium battery.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So you'll go,
so you'll, you'll take three or four of those with you on a trip.
Yeah. So I've got one 20,000 and a 10,000 and I usually take that if I, if I've got solar, then some, and then I'll take like two tens, um, but, um, yeah, it's, um, yeah, it's a bit of weight, a bit of weight there just in batteries, but then it's a bit weighting the camera gear too, you know, like there's. There's definitely at least a kilo of, um, of camera gear.
Let's see. I want to ask you about all that, but if we hit all the gear, any, do you take. Rain stuff. Uh, I'm trying to think of anything,
tarps. Yeah. So I, sometimes I take, yeah, based off the forecast, if I think it's going to rain or sometimes I start and it's raining because I'll spend a day hiking before. So I'll take a poncho. I've got one of those ultra light ponchos. It just goes, it sort of goes over the bag as well. So I don't have to have a bag cover too. Um, I find that just keeps my gear. Air dryer as well. Cause even with the bag cover, it just sort of runs down your back and then goes through the harness through that, the backpack. Um, so I just use a, I use a poncho. Um, but sometimes a lot of the time I didn't need to take it. I don't pull that. Yeah. And, and, and some, and that's probably with all that, all of that stuff with sort of three days of food, um, the way I sit on the range is about a hundred percent of the range and for here, I found. The flying, um, being right at the top end is, is pretty nice.
I quite like that. Um, for, but personally, I. Optimally like 75%. So if I'm not planning, uh, uh, a night out, if I'm not going camping, then the gear, the kit sort of reduces and I stopped taking as much luxury items. You know, I might ditch the stove and just take muesli bars. I might, you know, ditch the sleeping bag. Sometimes I ditch a tent cause I know there's huts. Um, and that's more for just when I'm cross sort of cross country flying, but I'll have a baseline of gear that I'll always take, but I know that, you know, I'm not in my, maybe not going to have the best time, but it's going to be enough to keep me, you know, warm at night. And. I'm able to walk and things like that.
Trekking poles.
Yeah, I love them. I need it. I need all the help I can get really. Um, so I can't,
I can't even walk without trekking poles anymore. And what about how, how do you handle navigation? What are you using for mapping and down? Are you downloading maps in advance or what are you doing for that? What kind of stuff do you have on your phone?
So there's a really great app here. It's called the NZ Topo 50. And, um, I'm pretty disappointed to find out that it's not an international because it's really great. It's just a topographic. I've never heard of that. Oh, it's really, it's really good. Um, if anyone's coming to New Zealand to do bivy flying or cross country flying, download that app, it's about two gigabytes. Um, so it's quite a large app, but it basically has, um, it's the whole of the South and think the North Island just completely downloaded and you can zoom in and it tells you where all the walking tracks are, where all the huts are and all the contour lines and rivers and Bush and everything. It's, it's really good. Um, but I mean, that's when I. I'm on the ground and sort of trying to find the best way to hike places. And I'm sort of scoping outlines for missions and things like that.
I use that a lot. Um, but to be honest with you, I also just spend a lot of time, um, outside of flying, studying the areas and, and, and getting to know the terrain. And, um, yeah, my, my mates take the piss out of me a lot because I know the names of most of the mountains. And it's because I hear that
in your videos, geez, man, this guy knows every single little pimple.
Yeah. It's funny. I dunno, maybe I've, I've got some level of autism or something. I, I dunno, like I'm just somewhere on the spectrum in terms of geography. And, uh, I dunno when you're really passionate about something and you, and you, and you love something a lot and you, you know, I spend probably a little bit too much time looking at maps and dreaming up flights, then you start learning all the names and it's, um, yeah, I get a bit excited in the videos and I start naming everything I can see, but yeah, it's, um, I, I, I learn the area.
This is a, this is an, I find this interesting. I think it's. Most people won't, but are you boots or tennis shoes?
Boots. Yeah. Boots. I'm boots. And I, to be honest with you, I think that's probably, um, it, it's sensible for the terrain that, that we have here. Cause we don't have any trails really like there's some trails down in the valley floor, which could be suitable for sort of trainers, but, um, even those, a lot of the times you, you end up at a bog and you're gonna go through the bog and then you got wet feet and, and you know, you're hiking up through tussock and you're getting stuff in. Yeah. Yeah. And shoes. I've just been boots. Yeah. And I find them nice for top landings as well.
Do you bring, do you pair, bring a pair of real lightweight sandals or something with you just so you can get your feet out of the boots at night and stuff? No, it's pretty nice to walk around barefoot.
Totally. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I just take the boots off. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Okay.
This'll, this'll make you upset knowing how much work you're putting into your editing and all that kind of thing. But all the big films I've done, we've always had a sound engineer take care of what you're doing really well. How are you getting such good sound?
Oh, thanks. Um, yeah, no, I just, I just run a lapel mic. Um, it took a bit of playing around, uh, just, uh, um, like a lap. Oh really? Yeah. So I'm out of the GoPro. So I have the, um, this kind of helps with the editing too. So, um, uh, the GoPro on the helmet, I've got, uh, it's a mic adapter, um, that you can buy from GoPro. And then I run a road lapel mic from the helmet cam down the shirt and I've got it on the chair. And it's got a wind fluffy on it, like a dead cat. And whenever I want to sort of do some narration or talking, I just turn on the camera, do some talking, have a look around, turn it off. And then when I go to edit later, I chuck it all in with the 360 footage and it matches up and yeah. And a little bit of magic in premiere, a couple of clicks, but it's, it's the, the real trick is using the lapel mic.
Um, cause it kind of sits on your chest. It's really good. Your sound is
amazing, man. It's like, it's like you're talking to your audience. And that's something we have struggled with, but that's great. Yeah. Fantastic. I forgot to ask you wing and harness. That was the last bit of gear.
So I've, uh, I'm flying the zeolite GT, um, so lightweight two liner, um, which I totally love it, you know, like, and, um, yeah, um, it's super solid and it's, it's got the performance that you can push into wind and I feel really safe on it. And yeah, it's a really great glider, easy to launch and land. That's, I think actually the most important as well is that, that you can put it into tight spots and get it out tight spots. So, yeah, I'm really happy with that. The harness, um, I was using the OZM and, uh, for, uh, you know, five, 600 hours. Then I did, um, the, uh, over the last season I did the F race, um, which worked really well. I was, you know, like, and for, for what it's designed for, which is essentially the ex Alps, it's quite lightweight anyways, 1.5 kilos.
I thought I was going to destroy it in the first month, but it actually. Yeah, it held up really well. So that was great. And I had enough storage and that was cool, but now I've got the BB one, um, which is ozone's new harness specifically for bivouac blind. And I'm pretty stoked with that. It's takes all for me, it takes all the boxes. It's got a ridiculous amount of storage and it seems clever enough that it's when all the storage has got this huge storage in the back and it's all side loaded. So you can inflate the back protection, lie the glider on its side and just keep throwing stuff in until you can't get it in anymore. And yeah, it's inflatable back protection. So. It packs down really small, um, really small pack volume and it, and it weighs two kilos. So yeah, I've only just got it. I've been flying it for a week or so, but so far pretty stoked. Yeah.
Wow. That's really nice. That's always one of the things that makes me worry about baby gear is when you, you know, typically you take the pad out to make all the room and then, you know, of course you're, you're taking on some risks there too. So it's quite nice to have an airbag solution.
Totally. And, and I think that's the future. You know, like, especially for the bivouac and things like that, cuz like you say, typically everyone just takes the foam out and you just put the sleeping bag and things under, under the seat where all the soft bit is, but, um, well, I've managed to get all my kit into this and had still have full back protection. You could, if you wanted a thicker sleeping bag, you can still do that. And then you just inflate the rest of the space. So I think for this style of flying inflatable back protection, I think is the way forward.
I, in one of your videos, you were, I don't know, day two or something like that. And you were, you were, you know, you'd, you'd spent the night and then the next day you rocked up at some comp that was going on. I thought that was really neat that there was, you know, it's, ah, I'm gonna go see what's going on with these guys. Are you a comp pilot as well?
No, not really. I, competition's a tough one for me. Like I, I, I enjoy the city. It's more of a social event really for me. And, and that's, um, it's great. It's great fun. Don't get me wrong. I really enjoy it, but I, I need to be careful sometimes cuz I, I am a little bit competitive and I wanna be, find myself motivated in the right ways. When I find myself motivated too much by the competition, then I kind of, sometimes I lose the buzz a little bit, but, um, yeah, I mean, I, I've done a few comps here and there cuz I really like racing, racing your mates is heaps of fun. There's nothing better when you're side by side, you're full bar and you just shout at each other. Like that's, that's awesome. I do, do really love it. But there, there's some sides of competitions that I'm not, I'm not too stoked about, but it's, um, that day was, that was just, I was just trying to make the most of the weekend, I guess.
And, ah. Yeah. I kind of managed to. Yeah, that was cool.
That'd be fun. Yeah. Hey everybody. Yeah. Um, the, you know, I haven't watched all your films, but I watched quite a few. Most of the time you're, you're solo. I mean, you're, you're often talking about, okay, well I've, I've, I'm missing, you know, somebody that this guy was here and I don't, I can't see him. I mean, obviously you're taking off with other people, but are most of your missions pretty solo oriented?
Yeah. I'd say nine, 90%. Yeah. I'm not very good at flying with other people sometimes you just get excited and fly off. But, um. Yeah. I often share the hike, you know, walk up together and share the drive and you know, everyone sort of flies off in different, a lot of people have got different objectives and uh, you know, sort of different levels of flying and, um, but yeah, most of the time it's on my own, but sometimes we do fly together and camp together and it's, and it's pretty awesome. We just did a really cool trip. Actually, one of my favorite missions this season, we, we just took off from Coronet Peak and the objective was just to stick together. Um, we had a group of four or five of us and, um, we just wanted to stick together. No matter how far we went, if we can fly 30 Ks, that'd be amazing, um, but just go as a group camping. And that was actually a really memorable trip. So yeah, maybe more, more of that to come.
What's your bivvy season? When does it start? When does it end? You know, for people listening that are just stoked and want to come down for a couple of weeks, what would be the most reliable time of the year?
Uh, the most reliable I'd say sort of mid, uh, sort of January through to end of February. I mean, it is still reliable in, in, in March as well, but obviously the days are starting to get a little bit shorter. So the potential is a little bit less, but there's, and it starts to get a little bit more stable, but, um, there's still some excellent days to be had in March. Um, the, so yeah, the longest days are obviously around the solstice, which is, um, the 21st of December and those are our biggest flights, but December, it can be a bit of a wild month. The last few years it's been largely unflyable. Um, it starts getting thermic in sort of September time and, uh, October you can get some pretty, pretty exciting flying in as well. And then, and November, but it really starts getting good sort of mid to end December.
Um, if it's not blown out, you know, January is the best, I think.
The island itself is, you know, it's, it's not huge, um, but the, but it, there's a lot going on. I mean, in terms of geography and like you said, the West and the East and, um, how much, and I know that there's, there's been quite a few people that have done kind of the island bivy, you know, the, you know, covered the Southern Alps, I guess, South and North. Usually is they, are they usually going South and North?
Oh, a bit of both, mostly South to North I think. When
you look at the map and you're sitting in Queenstown, is there just massive sections that haven't been flown or is most of the South Island kind of, you know, the, the flyable stuff has been done?
Yeah. I mean, there's areas that have been flown more than others. Most of it has been flown, but there certainly are still large areas that no one has flown, um, or at least not on any. Yeah. Any sort of track log in the last 20 years. That's mostly because of its, um, inaccessibility and, um, there's just nowhere to land or take off. So is that the West side? Yeah. There's parts of the West side, um, and the South and the deep South and the fjord. Um, there's areas that are pretty much with years, almost like suicide flying, but, um, but there are areas and especially, um, just North of Mount Cook where only a hand, you know, not many people have flown. They're pretty lucky. You know, there's some people that have flown through there. They're on these, on these trips and Nick Nick's obviously, um, an OG who's been in most places and, um, there's a few others, but yeah, um, there's a lot of it is, is still unflown and, or very rarely flying, you know, you get though that app, what's that app, you know, in the cross country, um, planner where you can have the sky tracks and you can look at sky tracks and see where, where people have been.
Yeah. Sometimes I go on that and just go, where's no one been before. Why not? Or why can't we go there? Nothing.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's, that's pretty exciting. Anything being done on
the North Island? I haven't done it yet that there is, it's not, it's not as much flying going on up there from what I understand. I personally haven't done any flying in the North Island. Um, it's not as mountainous. Um, it's more sort of a flatlandy sort of place, but it still do get some good flying up there. Um, but I mean, if you, if you look at the, what people are uploading to X contest and that, I'd say 80 % of the flights, maybe more or all in the, in the South and the majority of them around the Queenstown, Monaco. I, I, I personally, and it's hard for me to say because I haven't done really any flying up in the North Island, but, um, I think that the best area for, for flying is in the Queenstown, Monica area.
And wait, but they have that comp, uh, what's the volcano, the, the Mordor on the North Island. What's that place called? Oh, you
put me on the spot here. I'm going to be embarrassed in front of all my Kiwi mates, let's just call it Mordor. Right. Right. Right. You
know what I'm talking about? Right.
Again, I was there before my flying years, but it's, uh, but don't they have a comp there? What's that place called? I want to call it Fongaree, but that's way farther North.
No. Yeah. That's cool. I'm going to embarrass myself. It's probably Taranaki or Taupo or something like that. Oh,
there you go. Yeah. It's Taupo. Taupo is the town. And then Taranaki. Can we edit
that? So that it sounded like I knew what I was talking about. I know. Oh, absolutely. That stays in.
It's all right, man.
You're
still a Brit. You're still a Brit. You're okay. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. But –
Because they have a – isn't that where New Zealand Nationals typically is or is it down where you are?
No, typically – Um, yeah, we didn't have it this year, but, um, it moves around. Um, I've not heard of a comp being there. Probably was, but, um, we've had it in Nelson, a lot Nelsons, a pretty consistent place for comp flying. We've had it in Wanaka as well. That was pretty exciting. Um, but yeah, it does move around. Yeah.
Hmm. Hmm. So this season is just ending, uh, for you, I guess, down there. But what's—what do you start dreaming of this winter? What are you going to be thinking, you know, where—what does next year look like? I mean, hopefully, things are going to be opening back up again for you guys and you can, yeah, escape and stuff, but
Exactly. Well, we're, we're being set free. In fact, we've been set free now, um, which is awesome. So for me personally, I'm going to be, I'm going to be off to Europe. I've never flown in the Alps before, so yeah, I'm going to go and see my family in England because there's a long overdue visit. Um, I'm really looking forward to doing some flying back in the UK. Um, it's going to be, yeah, that'll be quite special for me because obviously I've done, I've flown for years and I've grew up in England and I've always seen it as this two-dimensional place, and it'd be pretty cool to go back and fly and land in my village and go to the pub. Oh,
You're gonna love the lakes. I mean, it looks a lot like what you're flying down there, that the lakes are
and it again, you can top land anywhere; it's all just tussock and grass.
Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty stoked about that. And yes, I'm going to do a month there, and then I'm going to go to Europe and fly in the Alps and go to Switzerland and France and Austria, go see some friends. And yeah, I'm pretty stoked to go and fly there because I've heard it's pretty scenic.
Oh, you're gonna love it. Yeah, that'd be fantastic. I mean, you're spoiled, but you'll—you'll love it there. Yeah. Um, okay, I got you distracted talking about this other stuff, but I want to hear more about how you're filming. So, you've got the GoPro? You've obviously got one on a stick. Are you doing—you switching it back and forth between the kind of POV on your helmet and putting it just—you got two? Yeah.
So I run the 360 camera for the whole flight, um, that means I can use that footage for, um, hyperlapses and, um, which you get some quite nice visualizations from the cloud formations and when you're running cloud streets and, uh, and then I run the GoPro on, on the helmet and, yeah, like with the running the 360 the whole time, it's, it's definitely, um, it's a huge file size. I mean, it films at 5.7k, um, for sometimes seven, eight hours and it's, it's quite a bit of work to process all of that footage sometimes, but it out, it outputs at 1080. Um, and so I'll sort of keyframe all of that that footage in the direction that I want, and and then I'll just link it with the GoPro footage and kind of sort of do jump cuts between the two, so um, it also serves—the GoPro serves a purpose for the audio as well as um, as sort of a point of view
Is are the videos? Is this become a channel, or has this become any kind of a a money maker for you? Does it, does it help pay for your passion? Yeah,
Not, not, not, um, in the sense of my time, um, that goes into it? No, it is definitely a passion project. Uh, but I mean, it, it's, it's still a very small, small channel and, um, you know, um, it at the moment, it's just sort of started paying for the money that I put in for subscriptions on a monthly basis to, to create the videos. But outside of that, not really. It's just something that I do for fun.
Because they're really instructional, I mean, there, there's, uh, you know, it was, it was quite fun. I mean, I kind of figure I, you know, I know a lot about BB, I've done a lot of BB flying and stuff, but I really enjoyed the, uh, the pace, the stoke. You know, you're, you seem like a constantly optimistic kind of happy bloke, and so you're, you're having a really good time out there. Uh, I, I agreed with, with Miles, our editor, is that man, you gotta watch this guy, he's having a blast. It seems like you're having a lot of fun, but it's also, I appreciate the instructional aspect of it. Um, it seems to come quite natural to you, yeah.
I mean, I mean as much as I love, love flying paragliders and doing BB flights, and and that I also love talking about it, so I kind of ends up in the videos where I just end up rambling on. But um, yeah, no, I, I, I really love it. I'm, I'm really passionate about it, and when you're passionate about something, then it's quite easy to sort of put that kind of effort into stuff. And it really for me, like, it, it's awesome to see the stoke out of people, and you know, when you know some people, they, they, they take something away from it and they realize that, you know, what, this is possible. I can do that. Look, he's doing it. I can see how he's doing it. I can see the video, I know what it looks like out there. I kind of get a feel for the experience, and that, and and totally that's something that I took away from, from next videos. Um, when I was learning, like, I was watching videos of Nick flying out the back, and I'm like, "Wow, like, that's so cool.
Like, I want to do that." Like, and I, I kind of understand what it looks like, and it's not so overwhelming when you do go and do it. You're like, I kind of already had a feel for it because I've watched next videos 100 times. It's, you know, so it's, yeah, if I can share the stoke and, you know, put some fire in people to go out there and get amongst it, then that's just, that's what it's all about, really.
What are your personal goals? You, you said that, uh, with flying and, and maybe otherwise, maybe with filmmaking, yeah?
Um, I'd love to. I mean, with, with, with flying, I'd love to just keep progressing and just keep, um, I really at the moment, the, the forefront is just go and fly new places. I love flying in New Zealand, it's spectacular, but I've, you know, I've poured a lot of energy and sort of into, into flying here. Now I'm pretty excited to go and fly somewhere where I don't know the names of all the mountains, so do a bit of traveling, go and see some new places, um, fly some new spots, meet some new people, and you know, and, um, I'll keep making videos for sure, um, keep collecting, collecting footage. I'd love to keep improving the videos and the video quality, and, um, it's, uh, yeah, that's something I'd like to expand. I'd love to try and do some bigger, um, sort of expedition-style bivy flying. That would probably be the, a next personal goal for me is to try and go to somewhere that I haven't been before and just go really experience it by going for some longer trips, maybe as a part of a team or something like that, and try and capture that and present that as maybe more of a longer form video rather than just sort of short evolved big trips we
We had an email change a while back, and he said, "You know, I apologize because I couldn't, I couldn't make it or something." And he said, "It's no problem, man. I've got eight terabytes of footage to go through." And I kind of laugh. You know, we had, I think, with Alaska, we had 60-something hours, which turns into a 50-minute film, and it was, it was that kind of footage, it was that kind of file size because they're shooting with Red cameras and stuff. But man, you are shooting a lot of—I mean, eight terabyte, that's a lot. Yeah, ton of footage, it
the the it's it's mostly down to the 360 because it just, it chews data and it chews power, um, but yeah, it's a lot and it's a lot to go through. You know, I've gotten faster at it, but it still takes, takes time. But yeah, I've got, I've got plenty of videos to get through. I'm just, uh, slowly chipping away at them, but, uh, obviously give
Give the audience an idea, so for one of your five-minute films, are—or some of them are 20—and they're amazing, very, very watchable. How much, how much time has editing and goes into one of those? I
think the fastest time I did one was like one full 12 hour day, um, and still that's not bad, yeah. And then sometimes the longer ones will take sort of five days, you know, you know just, you know, and it's a—this is the, the thing, there's not a straight answer to that because it's a rabbit hole as I'm sure you're aware, oh.
You can always make it better, oh.
You just at some point, and I used to, I used to put a time limit on myself. I used to say, "Okay, right, once you get to this point, just stop, you know, and move on to the next one," and just try to keep improving. But um, when I'm trying to constantly keep improving, you end up just spending more and more time, and and then sometimes I'm just like, into an animation I'm trying to get perfect, but yes, it's it's a bit of a rabbit hole. Yeah, yeah, okay.
On that note, I'm going to ask you one of the survey questions that we got last year. Uh, has flying made other aspects of your life better or worse? Uh,
Well, I'm, I'm a single dude. I've got no kids, so I can't really say that the family life
i
was gonna say it might might not be able to buddy with that kind of editing
No, exactly. I mean, yeah, or maybe maybe it's just, you know, that's one of the reasons—as one of the many reasons I'm single, I'm sure—so I don't have time. But, uh, um, no, I, I, I can't think. I mean, I, yeah, my career in cookery probably suffered because I quit my job, but yeah, other than that, it's been really fulfilling and an amazing experience. So, yeah, I wouldn't swap it for anything. Are
you a chef
Yeah, I worked as a chef for about 10 years, um, which, which, wow, my
Last podcast was with a chef, that's amazing. Back to back, yeah, crazy, yeah.
Um, it's actually a not bad, and it's not bad of an industry to be in if you want to do a lot of flying and cross-country flying, especially if you work in a place that is somewhat flexible and has a bit of a bigger team and you can swap your shift around. But like, oh, you know, the previous years, I'll, you know, go out and I'll—I used to actually have such a laugh with this day, and it helps when you don't mind so if you do get the sack. But um, like taking the challenge on, if I've got work at five o'clock and I'll go up Coronet Peak and I'll try and nut out 100k triangle and get back and then go to work. And uh, and you spend the whole day and the whole from the minute you did this a few times and it was, it was really great fun. You take from the minute you take off, you can't bomb out until you make it home again. If you bomb out, you're missing your shift, and you know, you spend five, six hours flying around the back, you get back and you get to work and you're 15 minutes late.
like, oh, you guys have no idea, it
was better than yours, I guarantee it. Yeah, but
You know, like, you know, it does work even if I run out from like, because we've got a gondola in Queenstown, and if I'm working the day shift, I can, you know, sort of run out, go and do an acro lap off the gondola, and go back to work. And, you know, that's—that's actually perfect. But, um, yeah, yeah, I did that for a while, but now, yeah, and I'm flying a bit of tandem now, and a bit of a part-time job, so
the
I mean, the terrain—the terrain does look pretty tenable, you know? You can top land anywhere. The valleys look pretty nice, you know? It seemed kind of alps-esque, obviously without all the lifts, although you would at Cornet. But, you know, it seems pretty tame. But what would you—what would—what were some of the things early on that, you know, maybe caught you out a little bit? Or what would be the things that, you know, for folks that are listening that haven't yet done their first, what are the skills that you feel like are kind of baseline? What are the—what are the prerequisites before you should really kind of get into baby, if any? Yeah.
I mean, specifically for New Zealand, I'd say fitness, um, would be be the key one because you've got to do a bit of walking if it doesn't go to plan. I mean, obviously, that doesn't make a difference so much elsewhere. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know, just, just keeping the expectations low and then, you know, when you, when you, because if you have to, if you're way too ambitious, you know, I want to do 100k a day and I want to make it to here, you're missing the point of it, like, you know? So it's, it's about the trip, it's about the journey, it's about the adventure. So, um, you know, you get fired up for just doing a sled ride and going camping and then if you get a thermal, then, wow, this is just next level. Um, you know, and I'd recommend anyone who, who haven't been bivy flying before, is just take it down to its most simplest form in the beginning.
Just walk up a hill, camp at the top, and fly down in the morning. You'll figure out so much just from doing that, where you're going to be able to do it and you're going to be able to do a lot of things in the morning and then you're going to be able to do the rest of the day. And so that's where my gear fits in the bag, what I need, what I don't need, you know, all of that sort of thing. Um, yeah, I think that's a really good thing to do as this, but don't, don't try and run before you can walk, basically. Um, is a good move, but yeah, also just, and knowing where you're going, having a good idea of the terrain and the topography and which value is good, which one's bad, and having maps and an inreach if you don't have phone signal, like having the right gear. Yeah, being prepared will
You be doing a lot of bivy flying when you're in the Alps, or is this more
you know, the established sites, yeah.
A bit, a bit of both. Um, I'd, you know, I'd like to definitely going to be doing some baby flying for sure. Um, what that objective is is a bit unknown at the moment. Like, I know we're meeting a group of mates in Annecy, um, in June, and we're going to try and sort of fly east. Um, but how am I just being a bit of a paragliding tourist, you know? Like, I just want to fly to the, I want to get a Mont Blanc, I want to go to the Igo, I want to get a Dolomite, and maybe I'll just do a zigzag around with my backpack. And yeah, I, I'm really, I'm looking forward to flying some acro as well, and going and flying the gondolas over the lakes, because that's something that we struggle with here, like getting over, over water. Um, uh, is, is quite hard because we've got lots of lakes and we've got mountains, and but we don't have any roads really that go to the tops of the mountains, especially near the lakes. And we started towing recently, which has been epic.
That's been really good. But yeah, I'm, I'm really looking forward to just sort of use, using all of the facilities available in the Alps and top landing at. I've heard they've got huts that sell beer on the top of the mountains, which is just, they're everywhere. That's unreal.
Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, there's, it's very styley, man. Yeah,
So maybe I'll just take a credit card, I'll leave all the tent and stuff at home and just, you know, go live the life. It's
A pretty, it's a pretty good place to just have a credit card and have a really, really good time. I'm going to ask you just a few questions here as we wrap things up from this survey. There's people gave me a bunch of questions that I, I find just
Um, what would you like to see more of in our sport, um?
Yeah, um, you're just, well, initially more people fly like, just, just the general growth, um, you know, I don't know about you, but sometimes I, I look, I think people have, why are you, why isn't everyone doing this? It doesn't make sense to me. Like, this is incredible. Like, what's going on? Talk to people in the government, you're hitchhiking and they don't even know what it is, you know, which is, it's fun, but you're like, what? Go out and learn. And so, um, so yeah, initially that. But also, I think, um, more people get, getting, uh, better handling of their wing, uh, handling skills, and whether that be in form of acro or training or just practice, you know, like, um, you know, like getting, getting more people to be, be more in control of the glider, and I think that, that will really skill people up and give people confidence.
And yeah, I think a lot of people neglect that, which is, um, which I think is super important, you know, being able to, you know, whatever you want with the wing, fight forwards, backwards, whatever, you know, and really be sure of when you can, you know, you know when you've got to put your hands down, when you need to put the hands up, you know, you watch these, you watch videos of people having muck-ups and, you know, a lot of the time you're looking at, you're like, that's just such an easy fix, you could have just done, you know, done this with your hand, and you know, it's just a shame. And so, yeah, people do that.
Yeah, yeah, biggest aha moment you've had in flying in the last year, let's say.
Um, yeah, I guess the most, yeah, for me, in my, my flying, it'd be flying, flying convergences and understanding what they are, how to recognize them, um, is something that we get quite often here, um, and it's something that we need to learn more. Let's, it's really good spot here for flying sailplanes, um, it's a bit of a mecca up in America, and these guys, and I've started, and I actually kind of like stopped, like got this knowledge from, you know, you learn this stuff from them, but I fly a lot on airband and often I'll be on there too, and I'll be on there too, and I'll be on there too, channel, and they'll go, there's a beautiful convergence setting up here, I'm like, "Oh, where is it?" and then you, you know, and I sort of started figuring more of it out and understanding more of it, but when I can, knowing when to turn and when you don't need to turn and when, when you, when I found a convergence line and it runs for 30ks, I'm like, "Boom, that's it, we're on," and I don't have to turn and I can just keep going, and that really extends the day.
And I've done that, and, and knowing when I can climb up the sides of clouds and, and, and I've done that a few times a season in the same sort of places, and I've started to go, like, "Ah, this is this magic thing that just gives me this 30k boost," like Sonic the Hedgehog, you know, I'm just like, zip along, and I don't have to turn. So, yeah, like understanding when I have to turn, when I don't, and using those lines, it's been a bit of a, are you
Seeing that, are you seeing these set up? Because SkySite is, is quite good at picking out convergence because they obviously, it's built for sailplanes. Are you
napping pretty well to what you're experiencing in the real world
Yeah, absolutely. And that's—that's—that's a—that's a part of, um, my, you know, pre-flight forecasting sort of plan is looking, um, not only at where the good thermals are and where they're—they're high and strong, but also where the convergence line is. And that's something to look at with the sea breeze, where it's going to come through and where they're going to set up. But, um, often SkySite, you might, you know, might not be exactly where it says it is, but it will be close enough. And it might not be there quite on time, you know, but you get an idea if there's a—you know, if they say like, "Oh, there's gonna be a big—there's a big patch here," that it's likely going to converge. Then it's usually—it's usually there and within half an hour of an hour. Um, but, um, it's—it's—it's more as well, especially for—specifically flying here, is understanding where they commonly occur, looking out for them, and understanding, "Okay, well, that's where it normally happens." And then you sort of get to the day and you see the cloud and you're like, "Oh, that's it.
Yeah, cool," and go for it. Um, yeah, but SkySite does a good job of forecasting it, which is pretty cool. And some of it are really small as well, because you get—what's quite common here is that, you know, just on one side of, um, one of the range, the air mass is completely different. You can be cruising up at 9,000 feet up the Shot Over, and then you get into the Matuki, which is the next valley behind out of the Shot Over, and it's down at five. But it's where those two meet and over those ranges is where you get some of
quite spectacular, because you're flying up at 9,000 feet looking down a cloud, but it's sort of looking at that, that imaginary line in between the two and and sky site picks that quite well.
Amazing, yeah. That's cool. Best tip you've gotten from a mentor or buddy, instructor, somebody you've flown with over the years? The thing, something you've kind of gone back to again and again? Just, man, that was good advice, yeah.
Um, I guess, um, a lot of people have told me just to slow down and, and, um, don't you know, like there's other days, you know? Like there's no need to push it on the gnarly days. If it's not the day, it's not the day, and there's gonna be. We're in this for the long haul, right? So yeah, you don't need to. I've been out, I'm pushing it on days that I probably shouldn't have been, and I had some nice flights. They've been pretty exciting and been too windy, but, um, you know, like there's, there's, there's no need to, to keep pushing it because there are better days to be had. Let's
Let's end on this one, Benjamin. Um, should beginners avoid trying?
To run before you can walk, really, I think is is a good way to put it down. Just trying to do too much too soon, um, and not and sort of skipping, uh, steps, you know? And that's—that can be hard sometimes, especially when you're flying with people that are better than you and going places that you know are really exciting, you want to go and and top landing in places that are hard to do and trying to do that before before you're capable. Um, yeah, don't run before you can walk, and there's—there's a—there's a structured, there's somewhat of a route to progression that people need to follow, and it needs to be respected. And, you know, you can't—you can't—you can't teach experience, you know? Do the hours, you know? I mean, I think a lot of people now are much better at not jumping up wing classes too soon. Um, certainly here, I think that's quite well respected.
Um, but yeah, you kind of need to take it easy in the beginning because that's when you—you're really most vulnerable because you—you
Don't know what you don't know, um, but yeah, I mean, and when you're close to the ground, that's when you're most at risk. So take it easy, like I, I broke my back last year, um, and that was, that was really stupid. It was completely complacent, um, it was the most minor of back breaks that you can get, like I managed to sort of walk away and fly out, but um, yeah, I had a pretty rough landing, and um, just trying to force it in, and when you're close to the ground, you can, you can really hurt yourself.
You're just top landing, were you on a bivy then, or yeah?
Yeah, so I was on a bivy flight, um, really nice forecast. I was pretty excited, um, I was set up to go for three days. I was in one of my favorite parts of the of the island and was planning to go and sort of fly up past Mount Kirk and I got stuck in the on the Naaman range, which is on in the Hopkins, and I decided that I was gonna, I was gonna slope land and camp there for the night, um, which in hindsight was probably not the best plan for me, but I was going to do it and I was going to do it and I was going to move because it was three o'clock and there's still plenty of day left. Like, I probably could have chosen somewhere else, but I found this really cool campsite and it was right on a cliff edge, beautiful grass, like someone had moaned it, like it was awesome, and I really wanted to land there, um, but if I didn't land there because it was on a cliff edge, then I'll be down in the valley floor and to get back up would be hours of hiking.
So I kind of forced myself into this, I pushed too hard and, um, I overshot it, um, and I, well, I was overshooting it and, uh, instead of, you know, I could have totally just gone up and slope landed and put my glider in some bushes and it would have been a pain in the ass, but it would have been totally safe, um, but I just start flapping in, I start flapping in and I'm, I'm loaded, um, I'm right at the top of the range, maybe even slightly over, and, um, and I, you know, you flap in and sometimes he just goes into little parachute or when you lose three meters and it's all good, but this time it didn't, it spun and, um, my legs went up, glider went back, and I just landed on the flat of my back, and I was back like on the top of my torso, and so skipped all the protection and just really not knocked the wind out of me.
um, so I fell from like three meters just onto my back, um, I was super winded, laid down for, for a bit, for like half an hour thinking, oh, maybe I'll just get better, I'll camp here and I'll keep going tomorrow and that slowly realization, um, didn't pan out, so I decided to, I could still fly, um, and this is a mistake and this is, if this is a takeaway for anyone, like I should have, in hindsight, should have hit my SOS, my InReach, um, hands down and if I was put in that same position again, I would have just hit it, but I was in a sort of a state of denial more than anything, like it's January, it's the middle of the season, you know, I'm having a great time and I don't want to be injured, so I kind of like refuse to believe it, so, so I'm not, so I'm not injured, it didn't happen, right?
Um, so I flew, I managed to fly off and decided I was going to fly down and, uh, go down to the road and get myself out of there. And it wasn't—it wasn't until, this is stupid because there's so much stuff going through your head at the time, I guess—and it wasn't until I took off again, then I'm in the air and I'm like, "Oh, what if I have another bad landing? I'm gonna be really stuffed, you know?" And that's—that's the reason you should, you know, like I can't, I couldn't have walked down and I could have just hit the button. And the services here are really great, you know, there probably would have been a helicopter there. And I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm gonna be really stuffed in less than 30 minutes." And they don't charge you, it's an emergency, they just take you out and take you to hospital. And it was a no-brainer, I should have done it. And luckily I had a good friend, Jesse Dew, aka the Retrieve King, came and picked me up. He drove for hours, so yeah, thanks Jesse for that.
He drove up and picked me up and I went to a hospital the next day. Yeah, funny story. Yeah, so yeah, no, sorry, I've got to put this in. I got to the hospital because I, I just had a sore back and I slept it off and I took some painkillers and I thought, well, I should go. I still pretty sore, I'll go into the hospital and I'll get it, I'll get it checked out. And, um, I walked in there and I said, "You know what? What happened, you know, I've, you know, had a hard landing on my paraglider." And obviously I've got it on video, so I show them the video and, uh, they're like, "Oh, that, oh, that was pretty. You should lie down, lie down." I'm like, "All right, I'll lie down." Like, "Do you want some painkillers?" I'm like, "Oh, no, I'm not too bad." But yeah, okay, I'll have, like, "Give me some painkillers." Painkillers. And they go, "Right, we're gonna get you an X-ray." And they X-rayed And I came, they came out the X-ray place and they come rushing in and they're like, "Don't move, pin you down." Yeah, like, "Do not move, lie down, don't move your neck." Like, and I'm like, getting up and looking around, going, "What do you mean?" But like, "Lie down, don't move." So all of a sudden I'm really worried, you know?
I'm like, "Well, what have I done?" And they go, "You've fractured three vertebrae in your back and, uh, you need to get a CT scan immediately, so just don't move." And I'm like, "I walked in here, am I gonna go out in a wheelchair? Like, what are you on about? Like, I, you know, I walk, I'm pretty sure I'm okay." And I got, got the CT scan done and they came back and like, "Oh, okay. So you, you said you broke your back before, right?" I'm like, "No." They're like, "Oh, well, you have, because one of those is old and two of them are new." Or is it two of the two are old? One, one of them's new, two of them are old. Uh, well, I'm like, I'm like, "Oh, really?" You're like, "Yeah, yeah, two of them. We had a specialist look at them and, yeah, you've got two fractured vertebrae that are, that are previous..."
Sorry about that, and yeah, no flying for a while, but I'm like, they're like, "Have you taken some wax before?" I'm like, "Well, yeah, I guess." I mean, skateboarding and snowboarding, and you know, crash my speed wing once, but no more than I'd had to like sit anything out, but the doctor thought I was some kind of lunatic that's just been shrugging of spinal fractures and carrying on with life, you know, like it's so that was a bit of a shock, or a surprise, but yeah, funny story, yeah, yeah
I've heard quite a few like that, where you know you'll come into the hospital and you'll, you'll, people will, you know, say, "What's happened?" and they'll say, "Okay, we'll just sit over there." And then, you know, then they come running out even before the X-ray because the doctor, "Wait, what was the, what was the cause of the trauma?" "Wait a minute, they were paragliding." "No, they can't. Don't tell them to sit down, get them on there, get them lied down." Yeah.
Yeah, it's funny. I'm like, I'm glad that
worked out there's a really good, there's two really good
things that I've heard about the X-ray, and I've heard about the X-ray, and I've heard
Good lessons there. One is from my own experience. I had a pretty bad crash this spring before the X-Alps here on a bivy. I was training for the race and, and I've put this in the show a bunch of times. I don't need to redo it here, but you know, when I crashed, I was so thankful to have my first aid kit because, you know, I could, I knew it was going to be hours before I could get help and I could calm myself down. One, I had oxygen, which most people aren't going to have it, you know, we do here because we get so high, and that was nice. And then having the first aid kit...
and then having the second aid kit
Was great to just be able to moderate the pain that I knew what was coming, yeah, just to help you know keep everything calm. Obviously, the InReach was totally key, you know, I would have been completely hosed without that. Yeah, that was also a really good lesson. Um, and then the other is flapping, you know, I, I'm still just shocked when I see my 20 in 2015, I top landed at, and, and Sebastian Huber and I did the exact same thing, and I did the exact same thing and I top landed at Plan Fey, and it just pissed, you know, I just, I had just bombed out on the backside on an epic day and, uh, and climbed up really fast and launched in a bunch of stinging nettle, so I was in a bad mood and I, and it was a really good day and so I wanted to land and get away immediately.
And the first time I blew it, I was too high and went back out and tried to come back in. It was, you know, it's anybody knows Plan Family, it's that famous launch above Annecy, but it's pretty narrow. by trees, and there's a lot of wind coming in. It's directly coming in, and you know, you could do it. Back then, we didn't even know the fly on the wall move, uh, and not sure I would have been able to do that there anyway with that much wind. But you know, I've seen Maxine do it on his Instagram, where he just comes in there, just, you know, and just stuffs it. It's amazing, but man, you blow that. You're, you're in a major, you're in a lot of pain. But anyway, I forced it and spun it late, and luckily I was low enough that it was a non-event. But it's same kind of same as Sebastian Hubert did, but I think we forget when we're flapping that we're, we're getting down, you know, each progressive flap, unless you let the wing completely fly again, which you know the acro pilots are really good at, and that your, your ground speed is, is terrifyingly close to stall speed, and you, you forget that, and it's just, it feels like all that pressure is there, you know, each time, and, and suddenly that stall point, and it's usually a spin.
That's what usually gets people. That stall point is, is much different than what you know it to be, um, and I, I learned after that watching Carlucho at the Monarca in Mexico one year. You know those guys, he learned in, in Card, no, not Cartagena, um Caracas in Venezuela, and they've got to put when they—when their landing zones are usually surrounded by barbed wire, and they're tiny, and so they've got to literally come in over the top and just come in like a helicopter. And and I, I finally learned how to properly flap watching him, by he would basically completely go into tail slide. It was, it was that deep of a flap, just full stall, and you know, snap the wing way back, but then completely let it go again.
You know, just completely let it, so it's, it's, it's constantly going from not flying to fully flying before he'd hit it again, rather than these little tink, tink you see everybody do. Yeah, and they're really dangerous, those, you know. And I, I really thought I had flapping down, and it watching that video is, is terrifying because it's just, what was I thinking? You know, um, so it's really something that's so good to practice with a ton of height, and really, you know, like you're doing with acro and stuff. And I'm sure that's what caught you too, you know, you're trying to force it in and, oh, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna straight down here. And yeah, I've got to keep, we've got to keep our pressure up.
Totally like, for that whole situation, I've got absolutely nothing to blame except myself, and um, it's totally avoidable. And my approach to top landing now is totally different, and I rarely, I very rarely use that technique anymore. And and I've found alternative methods which I think are a lot better, and I think it's taking like what we see, um, Chrigel and Maxime and and Patrick doing these incredible
downwind
uphill yeah
Totally, which is really impressive, but I mean we don't have to all go full blown full full bar nose down in flying the wall landings, but use that same technique to a lesser level and it still works really well, you know? Just it's like when you're flying tandems, you need some energy to get a good flare, and if you can use the same sort of um thing when you're, when you're top landing your solo, you see at the very least holding break, this is the actually the worst top landings and the most common mistake I've ever seen in a top landing I see people do is that they're flying in with lots of break on, lots of break, lots of, lots of break, and then boom, they flare and they stuff it in and it hurts. But if you're holding break and you can just let it shoot, build some energy, pops up, flare, boom, beautiful. I mean, it's all about having a good approach, but yeah, flapping, I, I, it's a really hard thing to do, well, and it's a fine line that you run between stalling your glider and and smacking in on your back, you know, like it's
Yeah, and I think, I think that the tricky part there, too, is even if you do practice with a ton of height and you're, you know, in more of a quote-unquote controlled environment, or an SIV, or that kind of thing, you—that's different than when you add the perspective of the ground, you know, when you—when you add the ground and the postage stamp that you're trying to do it in. Then suddenly, it's, you know, you—you may have the pretty good muscle memory of doing it at 3,000 feet over, but when you're—when you do it like that, it's—it's very easy to just quickly go, "Holy shit, I've overshot like what you did," you know? Um, so yeah, it's—but that, it's a great lesson because there's so many times where we get—I've done it a million times myself—where you get fixated on a spot where you just—you've got the exit still, totally, "Fuck it, man, you missed it." Yeah.
Go again, go land somewhere else, you know? And land somewhere else. And that's totally it, and that's something that I fell victim to because I was so fixated on landing in that one spot. I wanted to land there, and I'm gonna land there, and I just completely forced it when it wasn't possible. The only way to get in there was to stall the wing, which didn't go well for me in it, and it spun. So like, just go and put it on the slope in a bush and pull your glider out; you're gonna walk away from it, you know? There's no point in forcing it, and um, it's so much better to go around, have another go, land on the slope somewhere like it's, you know, trying to put it on a flat spot where it looked cool. It's just, yeah, and that's the thing. I think a lot of people, they see other people flapping and they think, "Wow, that looks pretty cool. I should be flapping. That's that's something that we should be doing." And if you don't fully understand what you're doing, then you're gonna be flapping, and then you know it's gonna, it's gonna end.
Yeah, it's
Pretty high. It's pretty high risk. I, I have a lot of appreciation for, for wing speed, you know, as opposed to ground speed. I think that we've talked about this too, you know, when you're, when, when coastal ridge soaring pilots get into the mountains, they can often get in a lot of trouble because they're used to flying very slowly because they're flying in a lot of wind, so they've got a lot of pressure in their wing and they're flying slowly, and so they, you just forget that that relationship is not the same when you don't have the wind. Um, and suddenly, you know, well, why did my wing collapse? I was flying the same speed that I normally do. Yeah, but you didn't have the air speed. And so, um, I mean, pressure is an important thing, like you said, having that, you know, having flare authority means having energy.
You got to have energy. I think energy is incredibly important in aviation in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Benjamin, great place to end. Um, thanks for sharing that story with us. Glad that worked out too badly, and it sounds like... sounds like that was a pretty good ending for all that, and got to have some laughs about it in the hospital, which is good too.
Yeah, yeah, no, it didn't turn out too bad in the end. It was, I spent a couple of weeks hanging up in the harness at home and I was back to it, but yeah.
just more editing time.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that, that that's it. Yeah, I could do with some more of that, but no thanks, Gav. Thanks having me on, honestly, I'm honored. And um, please, if you come to New Zealand, hit me up and we'll go do some BB flying, it's just spectacular. I'd love
to man, your your videos are just phenomenal. We'll have all that in the show notes for all of you listening. Please go check them out; they're really amazing. I loved them, and uh, and have fun in the Alps and on your trip to the UK, and thanks for sharing your time, man. I appreciate it.
Thanks, awesome. Cheers, man, if
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