Thank you for watching. We're in pre PWC, September 10th to 17th, so be on the lookout for that. Registration opens April 1st. We'll be on Air Tribune. And at the end of that month, September 29th through October 1st, three-day stage race and kind of the style of the Eiger Tour and Barracuda Fly and Dolomiti, but an each-day stage race. So each day is its own race and it's scored cumulatively. We had the first one of those this last September.
It was a huge success. There's awesome prize money in the pro category. We've got pro and adventure category, 65 pilots roaming around one of the most beautiful places in the world in the Rockies, throwing down hard. And I'm excited to announce we've got a whole bunch of the XLs legends joining. Patrick Von Cannell, who was second this year, is given a presentation Wednesday night. Paul Guschlbauer and Aaron Durogati are both given presentations Tuesday night, legendary Red Bull athletes. And, well, I'm excited. Paul's done it six times, the XLs, and Aaron's done it five times and a whole bunch of other races, of course. And who else do we have? Tange Rino-Gude, who has the current most meters climbed in a single day and flown down 13,340 meters or something crazy.
An absolute beast and won at the UAE Hike and Fly Championships. Tim Roches, a longtime PWC pilot and Niviuk test pilot. And we've got some other ones joining, which I'll be announcing in the next show. So some other really big names. So this is exciting. And check it out. It's going to be a lot of fun. And that's xredrocks.com. You can find more about that and the application for that race closes April 20th. So a couple of dates coming up that are a lot of fun. This show is with my buddy Steve Bramfitt, who competed in the X-Hops this year for the first time. Had a crazy wild race, as everybody did, with the nutty weather and a pretty gnarly accident near the end of that, which really slowed him down, I think, the day before the end.
So he's building a house right now in Interlaken, a tandem pilot there, and does a lot of wingsuit base jumping. And a very interesting individual. Really good acro pilot. Amazing cross country pilot, obviously. And had a really good race this year. So we talk a lot about the X-Hops. And we had a lot of fun with this. And talked a lot about risk and future and goals and just some fun stories. So enjoy the show with GBR1 Steve Bramfitt.
Steve, welcome to the mayhem, man. We've been trying to do this for a few weeks, but happy new year. And I understand you've been repairing a little bit since the U.S.A. We'll talk about that. But welcome to the show.
Hey, yeah. Cheers, Gav. Thanks for having me on the show. I'm stoked. I always listen to your show and really like it. I think it's great what you do to share the knowledge. So yeah, thanks for having us on.
Yeah, let's start off with the UAE. You were just telling me before we started recording there, I think a lot of us around the world were watching it. I was sad to not be there with you. I had to pull out right before the flight over as I'm building a place here. Sounds like you're doing the same. And we were pouring our footings and foundation and stuff, and I just couldn't get away. So it looked exciting, man. It was quite a trip watching you guys fly off the building and cool sunset session over the city and then racing out in the desert. It
looked like a lot of fun. It was, man. I really, really enjoyed it. I mean, normally it's the last place where you go for a hike and fly event or competition. You
didn't even know they had mountains.
Hey, it was cool. I had a rad time. It was like we did. It was like competition and day off, competition, day off, competition, day off. So yeah, I took my kite surfing equipment as well on the days off. Oh, cool. I went foiling with Paddle and a few of the boys. And yeah, it was awesome. It was real cool. Jumping off the building, that was a lot of fun. That looked hairy. Yeah. The first day we went up there and the actual platform wasn't down. It was just like a bunch of wooden planks. And we're like, holy crap. I think everyone has the same sort of idea. Like this is like do or die. And even when they put the board down and stuff, it was a bit sketchy because you'd be in the rotor a bit of the actual building.
So the wind would come in, blow up. And then it would kind of, so you'd have to time it right for get the right pressure in your wing before doing the leap of faith, I guess. Yeah,
it was definitely a leap of faith. I was glad that all worked out. But yeah, that looked really exciting. But then I think it was the third race or maybe it was the last one. I can't remember, but you and Eduardo both had hard days. What happened to you there?
Yeah. So that was, I think it was the third one. Yeah. It's interesting, you know, like we had the course, it was in Alfaia and yeah, it was quite a short course, but we did it twice. So it was like a run up a 200 meter hill to the takeoff. And then it was like sore and kind of climb up and out. And then take the first turn point, come back in, we had to land, sign the boards, hike back up, take off again. And then a few like hops down to the other turn sign board and then the same again. So I've got a feeling that the day it wasn't, it wasn't really juicy. It was like, yeah, I mean it was like plus four plus five, but it wasn't like, like a hard day in the ex-Alps.
Like it wasn't no big alarm bells going off saying, hey, we're going to do this. And hey, you know, this is, this is quite juicy. And yeah, coming back into the ridge after the, what was it? The second to last turn point. Um, I came in and then I was just kind of pulling myself up on the rears as I was coming on more bar and got to the top of the ridge and this three quarters bar and yeah, just had a full blowout of the wing. Everything full, full frontal from nothing. It wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't see hardly any warning signs. Like I was holding on to them before I knew it, my hands on the rears were under my ass and then let go and then ditch the brakes right down. And the whole wing was, yeah, it was gone.
Super. I was, and we were talking about this before it, uh, you don't see that much on two liners. That must've caught you as a hell of a surprise.
That's it. Yeah. That's kind of what did because I pushed, you know, way harder, lower on bar and you, you generally catch it. You're like, you box it out, like, like you're hanging on and keeping it open. But yeah, I think probably a combination of the sea breeze coming in and a bit of rota, but, um, but yeah, I wasn't high. I was like 25 meters and I knew as soon as it happened, I was like, I can't fix this. This is like, no. So when my hands were down, I had half a twist. I've been my reserve. I didn't think it was going to open, but I thought just get it out because if it does, it's going to help. Um, and I thought if I let my hands up. This all happened in like a split second. If I let my hands up, then with half a twist, it would have pitched and then I would have spiraled in and that would have been it.
So yeah, pitched and then kind of braised for impact. So you threw, but it didn't deploy. It just fell out to the end of its thing and didn't have enough. Yeah. I got to line stretch. Yeah. I was hoping maybe cause I glanced down and it was the ridge and I thought maybe I'm a bit more further out and it just, it was so quick Gavin. It was like. Boom, boom, boom. And, uh, yeah, kind of hit the ground pretty hard. And, uh, yeah, man,
I, I, I, this is a great lesson for everybody listening. I had a similar, not totally different circumstances, but you know, if you. It's instructive to keep that wing over your head at all costs in those situations, you know, to keep those hands buried. Isn't it? Cause if you'd let that wing restart. And I hope I'd be talking to you today.
Yeah. It's if it would have restarted with half a twist and that height, it would have pitched and then you would have gone in with the pendulum with a bit of spiral maybe. So yeah, I think, you know, they say in Swiss look, I'm on look like luck in bad luck. So I'm pretty stoked to, you know, I broke my back, I broke my hour one in two places. Um, yeah, it was interesting. So after I landed then. Uh, Tommy fed that it was above and he's seen it. He went to land. Um, and at the same time, Eduardo had a crash as well. So he, they were like the, the landing field, people were going to Eduardo and this was like the same time.
So, yeah, he got in a June buggy, um, with this other guy and came up and, uh, got round, got to me and then kind of took it from there. So, yeah, it was really interesting. So, so we asked they, um, the idea was to get an air ambulance cause I knew my back was broken or like it felt pretty hard. Um, I checked myself, my feet, my legs, like I didn't have any tingling and I've had a few knocks before. So I was like, yeah, I'm not badly broken. Like I can feel everything like self-assessment and then, uh, yeah, like an hour and a half, a few hours went by and this, this other guy came and he says, yeah, it looks probably not like the air ambulance is going to come. Um, and to navigate over, over this train at night, it's, it's quite tricky cause it's, it's quite hostile and steep.
And then he says, and also nighttime, the snakes come out.
Yeah. So that was like, that was like, okay, all right, let's try and like scramble. Yeah. It was like 200 meters to this kind of track. And as long as like I had a Tommy on one side and Abdullah. Hello. I'm the local pilot. Um, they were so like, as long as they took my weight on my shoulders, then we kind of like got to the June buggy and then lay down there. Then it was down to the tunes and the ambulance was waiting on the road. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. It's a tough end to a cool event, but it sounds like everything's going well. This is what a month, little over a month later now, something like that. More than that, I guess. But, uh, you got, you, you got medevaced back. Yeah. And you're back home in Interlaken.
Yeah. Yeah. That was real cool. Um, so I was in there for a few days and then with the insurance, so I got, um, rega app and that's like a local Swiss insurance. It's super. It's like 40 bucks a year. Every Swiss pilot, every Swiss person's pretty much got it. And yeah, they came to pick me up a private jet, flew me back straight to burn straight to Inch Patel. Um, the painkillers in Dubai, they're not really that good. The ones that gave me, it was like, um, paracetamol and IV and this other one. And, uh, yeah, the ones back in Switzerland, I think is on morphine and ketamine and I was, I was flying.
Yeah. It was true. Good to be home. Yeah.
That a good segue into your life a little bit. You're a Brit, uh, but you're living full time now in Switzerland. And how, how long has that, how long has that been there?
Uh, in Switzerland? So now just, I think a little over 11 years or 12 years now. Yeah. Yeah. Back and forth. What do you speak German? Uh, a little bit, a little bit. It's, it's really hard to learn Swiss German here cause everyone speaks really good English, but, um, it makes it. And generally, you know, uh, all the clients are American or Chinese Arabic with the tandem. So yeah, I can get by for sure with, uh, Swiss German, but, uh, definitely got to do some more work on it.
And did you, did you move there originally for the tandem work or was it the, was it jumping?
It just kind of fell into place. Um, I came here originally cause when I learned flying back in New Zealand, um, I wasn't, so I was, I was only interested in flying acro like tandems and cross country never really appealed to me. It was just like, I seen this guy from the gondola do these spinny things. I was like, man, that looks super cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then this, this guy, his name's Craig, Craig Taylor. He, um, he kind of took me under his wing and, uh, you know, I learned super quickly then I think two months of having a license. I was, I was flying off the gondola trying to do, uh, yeah, helis and stalls and stuff like had a real quick progression, not one that I'd recommend. Um, and a lot of those kind of naysayers was, oh, you know, and looking back, I fully get it now.
And Craig was like, Hey, if you're going to do this. You know, these are the golden rules, which you've got to do and, you know, stick with these, you know, wind drift and altitude and things like that. And, um, and then, yeah. And then he says, you got to go to Laota, there's a place called, called mirror and that's the place to train and do laps. And, um, yeah, I was working as a RAF guide in New Zealand and I said, can you RAF there? And he's like, yeah, yeah. There's a place called outdoor interlaken and then contacted them, got a job and then went there for the season. And then back and forth for quite a few seasons, back and forth to New Zealand and back. And, uh, and yeah, I thought, wow, New Zealand is beautiful. Like I lived there in a heartbeat, but it's, it's so far away is one thing.
And, uh, here in Europe and the Alps and Switzerland, yeah, it's a rad place to live. It's, uh, my gardens. Do you,
is it, uh, I mean, I know interlocking gets a lot of expats and, uh, you know, it's a pretty touristy place. A lot of people go there for, you know, it's just, it's incredible. Grindelwald and Mirren and the, the Eiger and I mean, everything is there. It's just awesome. Awesome. Flying, awesome. Jumping all the things that I know you'd love to do paddling. But is it, is it hard living in a, in another country? That's, that's not your own, you know, do you feel like a Swiss? Do you feel you've been absorbed into the community or, you know, I've always felt like when I'm living somewhere else that you're always coming. I'm kind of an outsider, you know?
Yeah, I know what you mean. Kind of like the biggest thing I miss, I guess, is the native tongue. Just, just kind of like the banter, the Kiwi banter, just have a good sort of yarn, but now it's, they're, they're awesome here. They integrate, you're really nice. And, um, yeah, I mean, obviously I miss my mother tongue, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's super nice. And the cool people and quite soft on the inside, hard on the outside, but as soon as you get to know them and the. They're real nice.
Hmm. Steve, you and I had a good chat down at the British a couple of years ago, or was that three now? I can't remember if it was right after the 2019 race, I think.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think so.
Yeah. And you, you had, I didn't know this, but you had gotten into that one. You'd gotten wild card or the invite kind of late. Right. Do I have that right? And then, and you decided, yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not going to do it. Was that right?
For the, for the.
For the 2019. The 2019 race.
Yeah. Yeah. That was the combination because like I bought my house here at the same time and I wasn't super fit and just had a lot of other things going on inside my life. Um, so yeah, I applied to get in, um, and then I got in and then I couldn't really give it 110%. Um, so yeah, I talked to, uh, what's his name? The mid director. Uh, Christophe. Christophe. And he was fully cool with it and understood.
Hmm. So the, I, I remember, you know, talking to you on the way up to launch that day that, you know, you were, you were asking me a lot of questions about the race and, you know, you were clearly, you had it on the docket for the future, you know, for 2021, which you did. And we'll talk about, but you were, you were, as I was going into 2015 race, man, what am I taking on here? And you, you know, you seemed pretty concerned about it. You know, just, can I do it? Am I ready as you know, all the things that I think all rookies have. Um, I'd love to know what, what about the race met the reality, you know, the expectation, what about it was, oh yeah. You know, um, versus cause you had, you'd done the Iger, you had done some other hike and fly races going in.
I went into 2015 having done none. That was, that was my first hike and fly race was the X-Alps. So I didn't have any, just, I had no idea where I belonged, you know? Yeah. Am I going to get eliminated right off the bat or am I going to do okay? Uh, I was terrified going into the first one and I I'd love to know just what, what of the race was. Yep. I was kind of ready for that. And what caught you by surprise? What was different about the race that you didn't anticipate?
Um, the tiredness, like I knew from the expert and stuff that like you get tired after like day four or five, but I think that was a thing that was super hard to go with. Like after. Day six, seven, you, you just a zombie a little bit and then you kind of warm up and get going. Um, yeah, but I mean the whole thing was just such a ride adventure and, uh, yeah, just going and seeing the places where you see. And, uh, I think the anticipation before doing it, you kind of like, uh, am I good enough, you know, am I going to be eliminated the first summer? Am I ready for this? You know, have I got any. Right. Doing this race and then yeah, just with the previous races and you kind of say, okay, I did this, I did this.
I did well in that race while in this race and just trying to, I think self-confidence, I think more of the reason the first time, but I didn't do it as well. Cause I wasn't, I wasn't ready or I was doing it for the wrong reasons. I was doing it to kind of like in my head to, to prove to myself. And then this time around, I did it more because I wanted to do it and, and see the Alps and, and. And do it with my team and have a fun adventure.
Yeah. You seem like your approach was, was just that it was, uh, I don't know, it did from the outside, you know, we didn't get to spend any time together during the race, but from the outside and, you know, watching the wrap up video and stuff, it seemed like your approach was very much. You know, let's just have one, let's have a good time. I've been watching your daily, you know, you've done these, uh, video posts of each day. And. The first couple really struck me. Yeah. Is, you know, God, he was just having fun and it was really working for you. You know, you were in the top 10 there. You were, you had a, you had the total opposite of my, I had a terrible start and, uh, just, we just couldn't get our act together. And it wasn't the team. The team was awesome. It was just, as I've said before, I was really out of sync with everything.
It just seemed like I was constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time. And after watching your videos, I've questioned, like, maybe I was just taking it too seriously. Just putting too much pressure on myself. You know, you were doing a ton of filming and, and just seemed like you were having a good time. And it seemed like that was really working.
Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. I mean, I think one thing that affected me. Which you found out during the race was if I would know where the people were in front or behind, and I was asking my team, like I was such and such, then my flying would kind of go worse. But, and then we found that after a few days and then, um, and then I just said, I don't want to know where they are. Um, or who's in front or who's behind. I'll find out in the evening. And then the less information that I had from them, the better I was flying, the more kind of decisions I was making, not based on who was in front or which line such and such tech, um, yada, yada. And yeah, that, that, that helped me a lot.
What, if you could have done something differently in prep, what would it be when you look back on it? Or if you've had a talk with your team, Mark and Ollie. And the boys, um, what did you guys blow or miss? I think
that one, which is a good one, like not to, uh, for me, the team were awesome. Like they, they did so much behind the scenes that I didn't see. And if there was like problems behind the scenes, like I wouldn't know about them. Like if it was from whatever, from not getting fuel or food or, um, it was just like, okay, Steve, such and such, this is where you're going to hike. Now go up there. Enjoy. Have fun. That's the course line. Yeah. The prep, it was really good, man. I had such a good team, you know, in the expo, um, a few years back, I just had Tom Payne and it's, it's too hard just for one supporter and one, one athlete. Um, so I really learned a lot from that race was saying, right, I need, you know, the, the, um,
drive into the guy's driving to have a rest, you know? And this is kind of like leapfrog the whole day. So everyone stays charged. Um, and that, that worked really well. You know, I can, I think, yeah, I've participated in the X outs, but it was kind of a team that kind of made us get to where we got.
Hmm. Yeah. The, the team dynamic is, is crazy good in that when you got a good team, I think I like that more than anything else. Right. There's a lot of things to like about the race, but man, you laugh a lot. And that's so good. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. What has it been like for you on the backside of the race? Yeah. You know, since then, is it, are you thinking a lot about the next one? Are you, uh, is it, is it hard to kind of, I've, I've had a hard time after all of my races in the post, just kind of, you know, you're, you're living at this insane level for a whole bunch of days. I mean, then life doesn't get much better than that and pretty hard to match.
Yeah. I mean, like I've, I've heard on your podcast about this and, uh, I was prepared for it, but what I wasn't prepared for was to be, you know, I had a thought after the race, then I'd, um, I'd keep training and do the Aga tour and, and, and keep this kind of like level of fitness because yeah, it's the fitness I've been in my life. And it was a super cool journey getting there, but, um, I got injured on the, I think day 11. So after the, uh, after the race, I couldn't, I was hobbling, you know, I couldn't move. So. I just had to, uh, rest and not move so much. So that was, I think it was harder because I couldn't get out and, and, you know, run and keep fit and start work tandems again. It was like, everything's went to a complete stop and it was like, you're used to this super high level of like, boom, boom, boom, go, go, go.
And then it just stops and it's like, Whoa, okay. This is, this is, uh, this is where we are now. This is life. Did you
get help with the training? Did you, did you get a trainer and.
Yeah. Yeah. So just do
it on your own.
I got a Ben, Ben seven. He was Kruger's original trainer and he did me like a proper training plan with the craft training and the first and endurance and then building up and then the tapering. And that was awesome. You know, that was like as fun as the race, maybe not quite, but just having this progression in the body and just getting fit and fit and fit and having time to train was. This. I, the whole prep to it was an adventure. Yeah. It was a lot of fun.
What was the, what was the accident at the end? I've heard a little bit about this from one of your supporters, Mark Simpson, but, uh, sounded pretty intense.
Yeah. So, um, it was grand. We took off, we like, we had a long high the day before through a Austin Valley because the weather was super bad. And, um, yeah, we took off from, uh, just up from. I was still in one of the Hills and was flying across it was round about 20 kilometers before Domodossolo. And I was leapfrogging quite a bit with mama new ball during the race. And then, um, yeah, he was like, I think five K in front or 10 K in front. We're always kind of jumping each other and the cloud cover came over. So I thought I'll come in and land here. Uh, I'm a hike up to, to the top of the rich. I forget the name of it.
I don't know what the actual device was called. And when I,
were you, were you trying to get up into the Machinaga Valley? I think it was, yeah, it had that big, you know, almost had a road back there. It was a pretty cool, um, world war two.
Uh, not a road road, not for cars, but for that's it. You know, it was a proper, yeah. Yeah. Zigzag coming into the back of the Machinaga Valley. Yeah. Cause I was there. Yeah. Right. I looked for that. I know what that's
I taught.
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sick you threw up
yeah was it a laceration no it was just a real hard impact um so like it picked me up and dragged me down and then i whacked my leg on the side of a boulder or something i'm not too sure um and i was sure it was broke i was like i'm done that's it and then yeah i kind of got my breath together pulled up my um compression shorts and had a look and did some pushing and well first i told my team i was like yeah i've had a crash it's not good yaddy yaddy and then my tires was like okay should we call for like an um air ambulance and i was like no no no do not call just just yet um and then yeah like i had like 10-15 minutes and then stood on it i was like okay it's not broken i've just i've just battered it um and yeah it turned out it was a big like hematoma i'm a i'm a right thigh which was yeah yeah so so you were but you were able to
keep going
so yeah that's where that's where one of the adventures started so by that time the team were already around in so they had to drive like yeah like it was like two hours back around to where it was and then um i managed to pack my wing inside my harness and then kind of hobbled down i think 200 meters down took me like an hour and a half like super not moving fast and i knew like i've seen this hut on maps and i was like okay that hut's cool i'll stay there the night i'll see how bad it is and then if it's really bad overnight then i'll have to pull it out and i'll have to pull it out the race and uh i'm going down to this hut and then ollie and mark come up and they meet me around about i don't know a few hundred meters before the hut and then we go down to to this hut but it's like a private hut and we were looking around for keys and stuff i'm like ah you know because if i went down to the valley floor it's like an extra thousand meters or something thousand five hundred yeah then that would be me me done i'd have been out at the race so there's no way that i could get back up the next day and
um yeah that's a story so yeah ollie and mark look around for this key and then uh we can't find a key and ollie comes around with this rock and he's like oh i found a key in the shape of a rock i found a rock in the shape of a key so yeah we how can we say we we entered well ollie entered into this into this private hut and it was perfect there was beds there uh kettle food i was like this is spot on, I'm saved. We'll spend the night here. We'll leave like a hundred bucks, a hundred euro and like a note saying, hey, sorry, broke into your hut. It was an emergency. Yoddy, yoddy. So it was all good. It was getting a bit dark. And then we hear this motorbike
and Ollie's like, this guy's coming up towards the hut on a Charles bike. He's got a helmet. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's coming towards us. And we had the lights on inside the hut.
Anyway, this guy gets up there, man. And he's got this blue machete on the back of his bike. And he's like, this is my hut. This is my hut. You're broken to my hut. We're thinking, oh man, this guy's pissed. Like he's super, super angry at this point. And Ollie, this guy, hey, he can sell water to a duck. He's like, oh yeah. Ollie's the
one you want on your team in those situations. Oh
man, he, yeah, he's like, you do Charles riding. Oh, you've got like a Charles Scottish badge on your bike. You know, you do competition.
Completely redirecting this guy. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I do Charles. I, but you broke into my hut, you know. He really wanted to be angry. And he's got this machete in his hand. I'm like, oh shit, man. I can't move. I'm going to get chopped up. And I'm inside in his bed and he's looking in like, oh man, what's this guy doing in my bed? Oh, man. Oh my gosh, man. You guys are
Goldilocks. You've just taken over.
And then anyway, he's talking to him. He's like trying to deescalate the conversation as much as he can. And then he says that we're in the X-Alps and this. And he's like, and then he's like, ah, X-Alps, okay, yeah, yeah. He says, I know Gusche Bauer. And I was like, and then he's like, oh, cool. He's like, yeah, he stayed in one of my Airbnbs two years ago in the race. Ah.
Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. We showed him on the live tracking and he was okay. Then he came in, he turned on the gas, he turned on the water and he was fine. We give him a, we give him a Red Bull cap and a semi euros for the door. And he was, he was fine. He was happy. So, yeah, it was really good to have Oli and Marlon. That's
hysterical, man. That's amazing. Yeah. That's, that's where you want Oli on your team. You know, you're right. He can sell water to a duck.
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And then from there, then, then we said, okay, we'll, we'll spend the night, see how bad it got.
I phoned my brother cause he's, he's a paramedic and told him what I had. So like my legs, the whole, my legs, the size of my upper thigh. And then he said, yeah, just keep checking on it through the night. See, see if it gets worse. Cause he was scared of like bleeding. I forgot like a ruptured vein, a ruptured thing in there.
And then, yeah, it was. It was all right in the morning and then I could kind of hobble hobbled up to the, to the, to the top of the ridge and it was all in snow and then took off and then it was tricky. I couldn't push, I could push bar, but just on the one foot. So it was really hard to push bar and then yeah. And hard to walk. So I wanted to try and stay in the air as long as I could, but crossing over Dom Dussolo is like super strong wind. And then landed on half bar kind of going backwards and then landing hobbling. And yeah. Hey, yeah. Every day was an adventure.
Yeah. The tell me about Andermatt. Uh, all he said to ask you about how in the world did you pull that off? There was wires everywhere. I'm always nervous of Andermatt cause the big wind generators and you've got the Arollo coming in and whatever the one from the north coming in. And, uh, it can get pretty spicy in there, but you have a story to tell from that. Yeah.
I've always said in Switzerland, there's, there's one place where I don't want to land is Andermatt in, um, Vassen because it's just cable galore. And, uh, yeah, I ended up landing in the middle of Andermatt going under and over cables. Like it was tricky. Like I came and then there was strong, like north Furnipai and it was like the strong south wind. Yeah. Down low. Um, so the first time I tried to go, I just got completely, sorry, a strong south wind of pine north low. Um, I've got smashed by, by the south wind and then it come back and then landed on the, not quite sure where it was hype back up. And I thought, well, I'll try it again, but I'll first go low with the north wind and then try and climb up into the south and then soar up and keep going.
And yeah, it didn't work. I landed like right in the middle at the bottom with all the, the road. And the river and the cables and the cable alarm was like this singing when I was going down and I was like, yep, I know. So there's another one.
Yeah. How do you, what do you mean your cable alarm? You've got something in your device that has all the, all the Swiss cables.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like on X, X, XC tracks. And then it shows you like most of the cables, uh, in Switzerland. Yeah. Not all of them, but kind of most of them, uh, which is really handy. It doesn't have all of them on like some of the old hay cables. Yeah. Um, but then, Hey, it was also really funny after that we had to hike up the pass and I was hiking with Matthias and exactly the same time there was this Chinese tour group of like 200 people. It was ridiculous on this single track. And I was like, this has gotta be a joke, man. This time into like a Matthias. He's going in front and he's like, move out of the way. I'm just coming behind him. And these people are super pissed. I'm like, no, wait, you're tired.
You know, I was like, ah, and, uh, yeah, he kind of like battered through like a way. And then, uh, I followed him and then we climbed to the top and then. Can fly and landed fish.
Tell me about flying off Mont Blanc and you know, you're, you're having, it sounds like you were having this pretty good battle with Manu. And Manu is the king of the comeback, which we saw again this year, you know, I was with him. And, and deal day one in the literally the back, uh, and he ended up really rallying in and having a great race and the game ended up fifth. But, uh, you do, you flew off Mont Blanc, uh, that your team lost you. And. He, all he said, he camped under a tarp that night and a thunderstorm. And he said it was the best night of the trip.
Yeah, it was also, I mean, it was quite coming around after the Don't Dosh to Mont Blanc. That was ridiculously strong winds. That was, yeah, it was so windy that I landed and it was going, I was going, I was on full bar going backwards at probably 10, 10 K an hour. And it was real tricky because there was the airspace. So like you had to thread the needle next to it and yeah, landed. I was happy to be on the ground at that point. That was before actually Mont Blanc. And then. And then we hiked up to the top and it was like. It was a full lightning storm. And Manuel was, I think a little bit in front of that point. And, uh, then took off after that, we went to the top of the hut and had had like Rosti in there and some food and then the storm kind of passed over, but it was still like gusting 70 K it was super strong.
Then we hiked down and, uh, and took off in the Lee somewhere and flew down course line. And. And then we, we lost all comms with the team then, because it was quite like in the middle of nowhere. I thought, well, I'll, I'll keep walking course line because yeah, the, the team will see me on the live tracking. And, uh, yeah, it was right at the back of this track in the middle of nowhere. I thought, well, I'm not gonna go too much further because this is the end of the road. So I'll just, I'll just wait here. And then yeah, in half an hour, the team were there and we spent the night there. It's super rad.
And then, uh,
I was super tired, but I had, um, my friend Carlo and Danny for that part, because you need a mountain guide to go over the glacier. So we had the, the one car it was and Danny's car and it was Carlo and Danny. Uh, and then Mark, myself and Ollie. So there wasn't enough space to go up the glacier. There is still enough space to be inside the van. van so yeah mark mark just no ollie captain atop underneath the side of the van and then mark was in the tent in a right blizzard it was a hell of a storm yeah
it was rowdy up there i got there the next day and holy cow i had a couple of scariest flights of my life i've never taken off and stuff like that ever it was uh well yeah it's a big
mountain big winds yeah it's full on hey but the next day i seen you had a real nice flight because we i think i was the day ahead and then we had to walk through aosta valley i think i was talking with tom's daughter and like we were kind of very very close and he's having a yarn so yeah let's go up and then we'll like fly this part together and then he was he was high and i was a bit more lower down it's like okay we'll see and then we we both ended up walking um manuel tom and myself in different parts through austin it's like 70k or more yeah that was quite a long boring hike yeah
i i i don't know if you heard my story about that but we got up to the coal you know at at mont blanc where everybody did and you know you you you hopefully fly from there you're right at the edge of airspace and it was just you know it was blowing 50 to 70 it was ripping and so we kind of skied you know just foot skied off the back where there was lots of tracks obviously a lot of the people in front of us had done the same thing and we kind of got to the top of the mountain and we got to the top of the mountain got around fully in the lee and you know it's if you walk you know i could see the next coal where i'm trying to get you know that's leading to the aosta valley and you know if you walk that it's a long walk and i thought man i i gotta make this work and just try to fly over to that coal and and so you know we sat for quite a while just feeling the wind because we were you know proper in the lee and in the kind of the gut of where this wind was swirling around like crazy and
off went fine and the flight was fine but very hands-on just well and i immediately got up you know there was weird i don't know if it was a thermal because it was just totally cloudy but there was a lot of air moving around and as i got over to the other coal you know there was a big group of people down at the ground and and i forget what pass that is but it's it leads it's where everybody else went and uh and i was kind of pushing i just really read it wrong it was a really strong north wind and i was like oh my god i'm gonna have to go back to the north wind and i'm like oh my god i'm gonna have to go back to the north wind and i was like oh my god i'm gonna day so i'm on the south side and i'm expecting to take kind of a beating at the coal and so i'm pressing into the wind getting to the coal and i get over the coal with a good 300 feet you know i had some altitude and and i thought okay well now i'm gonna be on the windward side this will be better i'm now on the north side and completely read it wrong all that air that was dumping i think from the coteens valley into that one i'm talking about was flowing it was reversing the
i don't know what was going on but i just i went from 300 feet to the deck straight down with a wing completely open just just it was it was it was worse way worse than being under reserve it was just you know when you just can't steer your glider at all you've got no forward motion and it's the hand of god just coming down on you and as i was plummeting it was it was a plummet it was it wasn't there was no control over this at all and i thought okay god i gotta i gotta at least do something to hit it and i'm like oh my god i'm gonna have to do something to hit it and i'm like the snow you know like there was dirt under me and snow under me in various places and right before i hit i thought oh shit i'm not gonna hit the snow i'm gonna hit the dirt and i just fully expected both my legs to buckle the only the only thing i had in my head was just to plf and uh and save my ass somewhat but i i thought for sure this is gonna hurt really bad and this and the dirt was it was six inches of soft mud you know it had just been melted out and it was basically landing in a shallow pond it was totally soft and but the scary that what did my head in was you know i landed just nothing it was it was a non-event and then the wing almost kind of like when you got hurt the wing almost blew me off the hill it was blowing that hard down but you know towards the the aosta so i i had that in my head and i i packed up and i had this very easy hike over into another valley that's more towards the
that would be towards the that led down to the aosta and i think other people had gone that way as well and i hiked over the little coal and around into the gut and again i know i'm fully in the lee and i thought okay i'll just sit here and see how this feels and i was getting reports from my team down in the aosta of you know white caps on the little lakes and ripping and it just sounded pretty scary and i didn't really have anything to gain at that point you know you were too far ahead you know but i did have uh yael and and latcher they weren't really moving too much and i thought well you know it'd be nice to just i hadn't really had i had a really good flight out of fish and that was about it the whole race and i thought man it'd be nice to so i hadn't really given up but i thought i i don't i don't have to kill myself i don't have any you know like getting hurt or killing yourself now would be really stupid i'm not you know there's nothing to gain here i'm not getting to the goal and so i uh anyway i i sat for a long time listening to revis go man it's pretty hairy down here but i think if you get in the air you can use mont blanc as a shield you know this wind you could fly in the lee of mont blanc i think it's doable and i was looking at the clouds and
hearing these reports of the valley winds just ripping and the north fern was really real that day it was honking and i said i don't know and eventually where i was sitting it just was it was too strong and too light and too weird i thought no this this is an accident waiting to happen so i actually hiked up higher and i got more around into the lee and had by far the strongest launch of my life i've never launched in that strong winds and the flight was glorious i i made it to where you're talking about uh just on the back side of the makaknaga and just having one it was a really really good flight and the reason it ended there was some cell had dropped out in the valley you're talking about exactly and you know it was beautiful and sunny and perfect getting there it was perfect and it was totally working it was west facing late in the day i would all i had to do is just plant myself on this stuff and bridge source slash thermal up and keep hucking i mean i i felt like i had belenzona easy that day if i could have kept going and then suddenly i got to the peak height looking into the valley that leads that the one before makaknaga and i don't know how long it had been dark it had been dark for a long time and i was like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die and so i i couldn't keep going and then uh so that was that was it you know that's basically where you know we i had some little flights the next morning out of the makaknaga but um yeah it was it was glorious it was it was interesting too because it took me about an hour to calm down you know i had this crazy launch and it was just holy cow this is going to be such a battle and it wasn't that much of a battle it was just like ravis said once i got in the lee of mont blanc
uh it felt very kriegelish in a sense because it was just oh this is what he did and i was like oh he does you know he uses these big mountains for shelter and it actually you know it was really strong west with north fern on the ground and uh you know as long as you didn't go low it was okay yeah
and i think that i think day 10 and 11 they were probably the the best flyable days for where we were during the race like the condition was strong but they're like like you can do more distance because the base was quite high how
do you think about it looking back uh you know you i saw the wrap-up film you were totally stoked but looking back you know because this in my experience this was my fourth in my experience this was by far the gnarliest in 2015 we had winds that matched this one um but we didn't have the fern as much and we didn't have the thunderstorms and the hail and and the just the craziness of this one this one was pretty wild uh total opposite of 2019 is it's you know at the end were you i can't wait to do this again or were you man i don't know that was pretty on the edge
yeah it was yeah i know what you mean there were some days you're like what am i doing in the sky like heading in towards a storm from uh lemus to santis i had such a an epic flight that day but it was like during the day like i had a full-on disco dancing landing i caught it with yale and um had a real juicy time when i came into land like just keeping the wing open and then after that i could just stay in front of the weather like i did a hike up and then a few little flights and then i took off just as it started raining and then it started raining hard and harder and then it started to um what you call it hail was coming down i was like oh man i'm a vario at the same time my vario was screaming like on full bar i was like this is this isn't a good place to be stevie but um
i got out close to falkrick and uh my wing dried off and then i was in a nice like beep beep i thought okay i'm just gonna keep taking this all the way up and then flew across the valley and landed and i was freezing but all my stuff was like my wing was dry my harness was dry but i was soaking and then my team come up my team come up and see me like oh steve was like freezing my ass off i'm like oh i need some clothes like why everything's dry i'm like oh i need some clothes like no no i was like oh yeah you're soaking so yeah experience it sounded
like that flight that that flight uh eduardo talked about that you know he was with that group but you know uh
cody laurie sounds like there was some pretty heavy ptsd for some folks that day and that i got to learn almost that day a few hours after you guys had left and walked it was just i looked at the sky and went this is not this is not flying just lightning bolts
and hail yeah holy shit but it's interesting because you kind of you just get in that zone which you wouldn't you know you just wouldn't get in that zone if you're recreational flying you wouldn't put yourself in those places but uh i think like even though you put yourself in the places you kind of zoned in so much like the risk is there but it's not as high so for instance if you're flying like you know most of the day but there's a few times where you've got to be like 100 concentrated on getting over a ridge or getting through the storm or getting around the storm or something um yeah then it's more
controllable
yeah it's a it's it's a strange one isn't it i mean i i can't get there in the training you know i i purposefully have gone out on days that i know are like the X-Alps and they're just terrifying right you know i just i don't enjoy it and i just think what am i doing and then in the race you you get to this place where i just it's almost anything is possible it's a weird one it's a weird one yeah tell me about the the the disco dancing landing that sounded interesting what do you
mean so that was interesting like i caught it with yale and then um like she crossed the valley and i was just behind her and i was just like why is she crossing i was like oh because she's getting flushed by this other valley coming on that side and then as i got up then i just got in the downwash or from from this kind of valley system blowing out and up so i crossed over to to yale and then we climbed up and it was honking it was honking uh we pushed over um i don't know the name of the valley exactly and kind of just creeping forward but it's like a low like tight canyon um yale landed then and i thought i'll just try and get around the corner and climb up um but there wasn't a climb and then it was a more lower and more lower and the wind was getting stronger and stronger and there was just this this main road to kind of land on so i was like i've gotta i've gotta get to this part with no trees to to get it in there and uh yeah coming in and it was just like i filmed it on gopro but it really doesn't do it justice yeah it was super tight and i was like poof got on the ground kissed the ground i was like okay there we go this is a bit of disco dancing
then yeah just carried on walking and then did the same again
yeah it's funny then you look back at the end of the day like holy crap like it's quite a bit of distance and quite some moments yeah
yeah crazy you i don't know yeah just past that you uh get to lichtenstein we had a little tiny segment in there in lichtenstein and sounds like you had you spent a bunch of time with buddies they were mountain guides who maybe weren't very good city guides ollie said he wasn't even sure if you were aware of that you were so tired but your your team took a break your mountain guide friends took over and it sounds like they took you off yeah
yeah there was to take you very direct there was two cases yeah there was one where they were like i said that i had to go to to santa's and i'm pretty useless to my team saying hey walk that way we'll send you a track um but there was two occasions there's one where a bunch of locals come and they're like chewing you out yeah yeah we know the shortcut this way i was like cool this is the way that um gush about came and i was like cool yeah i'll just follow you i don't want to think and it was a detour by not much but probably 150 meters and um yeah probably 900 meters off off off route and then the same after that like a minute with danny and carla and it was just like a little bit of a detour ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know
ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya
know ya know
ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know
ya know ya know
ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know
ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya know ya Actually, I've got to go there and not here.
Yeah, just wasted an hour. An hour in a race with that kind of pace is a lot of time, isn't it? Yeah. They add up. It's
like, ah, damn it. The pace. A few times I was like, right, there's no one going to – I've definitely got to gain here. That was terrible conditions. And then you check back in, then you look and like, nope, you haven't gained. Everyone's got closer or right behind you or you're like, wow. The pace and the level is ridiculously high.
I'm wondering how are you thinking about that? Are you going to do it again?
I've got until June to decide.
Yeah. It's the best adventure race I've done. Like you say, you can't get there any other way. The hardest moments, they're the best. They're the ones which you remember the most. But it takes so much time. I mean, the fitness, you can get there. I think anyone really can get there as long as you have a structured training plan. But if you look at the top ten, top five, they're all test pilots. I fly tandems. That's my full-time job. I'm not out there flying every day in these conditions. And I think to have that extra kind of sensitivity, you just need to be doing it every day, day in, day out.
Yeah. It also takes, for the nine months leading up to it, it was just excels. So from a partner, Samira, as well, she was awesome with it. She was really, really good. But everything, life stops, and it's just training. And it's awesome, the ski tour and everything else. But the whole period up to it, it's cool and fun for me. But everyone in your family, it's quite, okay, it's excels. It's intense
for them, too.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a
big undertaking for a lot more than you.
But
yeah, like I say, it was the best adventure. It was so much fun. And the places you go, the people you meet bringing you food and giving you bananas and just chewing you on, the energy that you get from the people as well, it's incredible.
Do you feel like where you live, I mean, I know your job is tandem, so maybe I don't know how much pure time you get. But I know you're a super XC exploration and that kind of thing. I know you race. But do you feel like living there really helps? Going through that part of the course, was that beneficial? Going down through the Rhine and the Rhone and having that kind of be your backyard? There's always been, gosh, if the race goes through Kriegel's backyard, we're all toast. Which it really did this year. It went through an area that he knows really well. I'm wondering if you feel like that helps,
hurts? Yeah. It's an interesting question, Gavin, because I would think it would. But say, for instance, when we got to Fisht, I go to valleys when it's a good day to fly. And when we were there, it was like 10 hectopascals fun. And not the conditions I'd ever go there normally because you go there on a good day. So yeah, I think for sure it helps being in the Alps and having this in my backyard. And on a good day, I can just go and pick the good days and fly on the good days and do some nice triangles and stuff. But it was interesting. I was like, yeah, I'm in my home territory now, Fisht. And it was just like a completely different way that I've flown the valley. Like normally it's just ridge bashing down and it was just like using the lee and just climbing up with the wind.
Yeah, but yeah, for sure it helps. I think living in the Alps definitely helps.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What was the best and worst moment of the race?
Oh, that's a good one. So I think the best moment was day four. It was halfway between Kiemsee and La Mousse and we hiked up. We hiked up with Mark and it was fully cloudy. And I thought, man, today is going to be a hiking day. And then it was incredible. I could take off on the other side, on the sand.
I know that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy.
You know, that is
crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy. You know, that is crazy.
You know, that
is crazy. You know, that is crazy. turning and then cross the valley and then and then the same again there real low i just came into land i thought i'll put it on this forest path and hike up and then beep beep beep and i was like oh let's do a little circle and then uh yeah that that for me just that was a beautiful day that was like wow this is i didn't think it would be possible to move that much distance in that day and uh yeah in the evening got to la mousse just just past just past la mousse and uh yeah that was a standout moment the flight coming into la mousse that was also like super uh euphoric with the with the clouds and the storms just got in between a storm and then come around yeah that was that was super rad and yeah the worst day yeah probably the day that i got injured uh was probably was probably like the hardest and it was more it was more the thing like
i broke myself and i can't go on and the kind of like pain thinking that i've trained so hard and i've i've i've just ended it now not before the end of the race like i really didn't want to get a dnf and um that was like a hard moment to realize and then after the okay yeah i can i can keep going but just there's a day and a half to go but not so just at a real slow pace how about
the last one that you talked about it but what about scariest moment yeah
i think i think that one with uh coming to just before andamat disco dancing yeah that oh and there was lots of disco dancing moments that's the the whole every day there's some disco dancing moments i just managed to get the one on film uh andamat was super super sketchy with the cables and i think around the back of mont blanc getting blown backwards like four bar going backwards in and trying to dodge airspace flying backwards it was uh that was like man i just want to be on the ground yeah that's
never a very comfortable feeling is it no steve tell me about the the tech that you guys used during the race what worked maybe what didn't would you change anything yeah
we used the uh zello and zenly app that was really good zello was like um uh push to talk over over uh sailor and i had like a uh a button toggle on my break handle so i could just talk to the team yeah such and such and they could just feed straight back and with my headset i had aftershock uh headset
that's super good that with the buff round i could hear crystal clear and they could hear me really good.
Yeah. We'd use the, uh, we use the Zenly and Zello as well. That was, I hate Zenly as an app, but I really like it in the race, you know, using it as just all these things popping up all the time and stuff, but it's, uh, you know, that was really handy for my team because they could see my battery level, you know, so they know, okay, it needs another battery. Uh, they knew exactly where I was all the time. I didn't use it so much for them because it didn't matter, but they, it was, it was great for them tracking me, you know, faster than the live tracking and then Zello's just wicked. Yeah.
Yeah. Zenly is super good because I think with the X-outs, they've got the, that's a five minute delay, isn't it? Or something with the live tracking. Exactly. Zenly is pretty, pretty accurate.
Are you going to be planning on doing many other, are you going to keep doing a bunch of hike and fly races between now and potentially the next one? Is that still pretty hot for you? Or, you know, I don't,
I don't
know how much, it sounds like tandems are the way you make a living. Is that, does that really dominate your time or do you have plenty of time to play and do this other stuff?
Yeah. I mean, it was a bit tricky last year with Corona, but, um, hopefully this year is going to be better. Um, yeah, so mainly flying tandems and then try and get the times off to do like the short hike and flies, uh, the Bournester fly, the Agator, the Virco fly. Um, they're really good. How
much do you feel? I, I, I see you're in films. You do quite a bit of acro training still. Uh, how much importance do you put on that in terms of your training? Are you doing acro for fun mostly? Or is it really become part of your, you know, this is what I need for these kinds of races?
Yeah, I do. I do a lot of acro or in the training plan. I was doing like a two days, three days a month training acro not just with the acro wing but also you know just stall and spin an SIV with the competition wing and I think that helps heaps just to get that intuitiveness the feeling and I enjoy doing acro I don't do as much as what I used to but it's it's also in the winter it's a lot of fun to train acro because you can go higher from Mirren to Shilkrat it gives you like an extra 800 metres and it's a yeah it's a blast do
you how much are you jumping these days is that still a big part of your life
yeah I really enjoy it so after the race after I got better I was jumping a bit more did some I mean it's more the it's not just the jumping it's more the kind of get in there the whole process like with we jumped the Jungfrau and it's quite a big thing to plan with the weather as a matter of fact it's a massive thing and getting up there at the right time and then also you know taking the ropes the axes the harnesses and then the actual jump itself so the actual process to get into the jump is kind of also a reason why I do the jump like it's it's the jump's a rad place to get like to to get down
four minute flight or three minute um but yeah it's super super fun super super fun
and are you just wingsuiting or are you basing as well
uh so there's wingsuiting and tracking so uh I just wingsuit because to do both of them at a good level it takes too much time so generally it's only wingsuit base okay yeah to get to the the level it's probably it's probably one of the most expensive hobbies I've done because you know when you learn you've got to do a bunch of skydives like I did over 700 skydives and then you start with a small suit and then you work your way up in the suit and then the same when you bring it to the base environment you've got to start tracking and jumping off powerliders first and then go to barrento it's a good place to do your first few jumps and then a few hundred and then get onto wingsuits and then small small wingsuit small problem big wingsuit big problem so it's kind of like a progression which you work your way up you can go up quicker but it's way safer to do the steps
and are you still paddling quite a bit I know that that was your background
no I really I really wish I was yeah I really miss miss paddling but I should get back into it yeah I'm super keen
yeah I'm wondering where you feel like you're you and I have pretty similar backgrounds with the paddling and the flying and you know taking on these kind of crazier end of adventure and you know I guess do you do you know where that comes from the paddling no just the your your approach to risk your your love of of pursuing these types of activities that are pretty high consequence you know you're obviously pretty comfortable with it I've wondered if you ever if you've ever kind of done a deep dive on your own psyche to you know where does it where is where do you think that comes from does it come from your parents does it just was it natural was it nurtured good question it's
yeah I mean I got the kayaking from my dad and that kind of got me into boating and kayaking and I think it's you know it's some form of a drug when you look at it to with the kayaking when you you paddle in big rivers big class 4 or 5 and you know that you've got to have the skill like to get down it it requires skill and it's the endorphins stuff that it releases and I think it's the same as paragliding and jumping like it's like I wouldn't say an addiction but it's you know why do we fly because it feels good and then this kind of like progression or like how can you get the next feeling and it's just it's just feeding it a little bit yeah
I find it really interesting that a lot of us come from a paddling background and that a lot of people who get really good at flying fast are paddlers yeah seem to have the right understanding of risk it seems to be a really good fit for pilots because like in piloting we can't stop we can't hit the pause button and go you know what I need to reassess you know you're in the air you got a Denali
was going to say I think it's the same with the water because it's it's the same dynamic flow and that's the same as the boat and it's it's the flow which you get into and I think when you look at the mountain and if it's windy I just picture like a bunch of water coming over it and where's the eddy going to be where's the hole going to be what's going to so I think they kind of like translate
yeah I think they do really translate that and like you said I think that it does give paddlers have an innate ability to read the air because they've learned it from the water it does the same thing like you just said and I think probably a lot of paddlers don't even recognize that when they start getting into flying but it was you know my time sailing and my time paddling have certainly you know even though I can't concretely look at something and give you an answer you know articulated I think first you know it's embedded in who I am just all those years of doing it have really helped me like you said understand okay this is not a good place to be or this is a good place to be
so let's let's rally through some of these questions what was the biggest opportunity aha moment you've had with flying say in the last year or the last you know in recent memory you know something that really clicked that has changed your approach or your ability or how that's impacted your success as a pilot you
know the whole thing with the monkey on the shoulder and like knowing when to push and when not to push and just trying to like really listen to the monkey and when not to listen to the monkey like sometimes a push push push! because if someone's out in front or want to fly fast so more gearing down and just using using the whole day rather than just changing modes of really trying to be worked I've tried to work on a lot more not when it's coming to the end of the day just really try and gear down and a few times I was like ah okay yeah that's a bit of an aha moment
if you could only make one more flight this is kind of a dark question but it's interesting if you could only make one more flight where would you go what's the place that you dream about at night mostly about flying
that's a good one Gav
the Himalayas I haven't done yet I'd really like to go to the Himalayas yeah that looks super rad I'm actually planning a vol biv trip with Jeff Shapiro Mongolia this June cool so that's on the cards but I think the Himalayas that just looks when I was in Dubai I looked at Antoine Girard he's got this 3D movie thing which you put on the headset and wow man I put it on and it's incredible yeah so I really love it whoa I haven't seen that that'd be neat so it's kind of a VR type thing exactly it's a VR thing and you put it on and you just look like you're flying in the Himalayas wherever you look it's rad
yeah
he has been what an adventurous guy he has really ramped it up and he's been doing some very cool stuff I need to talk to him again on the show here's a hard one does free flight make other aspects of your life better or worse
better hands down yeah because free because you're just out there doing it seeing the world it makes me a better person if I'm blocked inside all day or I don't know working on the house then as soon as I'm out and I'm in the mountains it's you kind of open and yeah I love it
yeah this is a good one tell me how you manage and this is probably you know kind of a continuum it probably changes as the years go by but do you have kind of a mantra or a playbook for managing risk
playbook for managing risk
yeah it's you're talking about the monkey on your shoulder you know I think we all try to tune into him but is there I don't know anything more you can say about just how you how you approach risk
analysis and stuff
yeah I
think with flying yeah it's more of my gut feeling how I'm feeling and if I've got a real strong gut feeling if it's flying or jumping or then then I won't fly or I won't jump I'll be like nap and the more that I listen to my gut is generally nine times out of ten it's more right so just listening to myself more I think and like my inner feeling I really try and with flying and other air sports that's kind of the biggest thing I try and pay attention to
okay last one this one just popped into my head what do you think is the the biggest misconception from the viewing public of the ex-alps what I mean is you know people millions of people watch this race and they watch the live tracking and they get totally embedded in it and kind of sucked in what do you think is what do you think they have wrong about what they're watching you know whether it's you know are we all just total nutters are we you know or the weather yeah I don't get we don't get to watch it it's an interesting thing isn't it I don't know what they're seeing
I think with the live tracking like sometimes you go you do a detour off route and they're like why is he going that way in the sky should we be flying straight but in front of you there's a big storm or like it's all shaded over so and how hard it is like it's yeah it's it's it's pretty hard yeah
that's an interesting one because I think they all know it's really hard but it's actually harder than they think they know and I
think with the sleep deprivation that for me like I said before it's the hardest there's a few times you that I actually fell asleep like straight asleep during a flight once was in fierce and it was I got the turn point I went up and then took off and it was just this nice beep beep beep and I just kind of went to one side and just closed my eyes and then the next thing I know I was just like whoa like a few raindrops it wasn't long it's probably 20 seconds 30 seconds but I was I was gone I was fast asleep and I was like oh okay totally out yeah
I think we've all we've all experienced that that's got to be shocking to hear from you know people watching the race wait what you fell asleep but there are times I had one of those between Dente Osh and Mont Blanc sounds like kind of similar conditions just ripping wind but and the wind was coming from right where I was trying to go you know heading towards Passy and before the crossing into the Coteen Valley and but I'd learned that you know at the Dente Osh you know turn point in that coal it was just super unreasonable it was really ripping but I'd learned that if I could keep my head down kind of below the peak tops I could make these little hops and that's what I did all day I made these little hops some of them were successful some of them were not to say the least really
terrifying crash at one of them but the but going across Passy you know it had been dark for hours and it was just yeah there was no there hadn't been any sun and I got one of those like you're talking about just this tiny climb before leaving the terrain and going across the city and going across the city I found this crazy good glide you know it was just ding ding ding you know I was actually going up and I where is this it must have been a little mini convergence you know at the end of the day or something and I totally fell asleep just because I thought you know my body don't know what to do I'm just going to take a quick one here and I actually don't know how I mean it wasn't that long when I woke up I looked down I'm still over the city but just a really nice sleep
oh that felt good I want to do it again
it's always when it's weak when it's juicy then you're awake but when it's like a nice weak climb you're like oh I'll just lean I'll just close my eyes for a few minutes seconds I
don't know if you heard I did a podcast with Aaron after the 2019 race and when he was going down the between St. Hilaire and Monteviso that Le Grave heading towards Brianne he was so tired he started watching YouTube videos yeah I heard that I thought that was terrific that was good fun Steve great to have you on the show and really fun to chat with you it sounds like you're heading in the right direction with your back which is great so happy healing and can't wait to race with you in the future I hope maybe you'll be in Columbia or something this winter but good luck to everything and maybe before we close here I know you want to give a shout out to your team and maybe any sponsors so anybody we should be aware of go for it
yeah for sure so thanks without the team you couldn't do the X-Alps they did a lot of the hard work so Matthias was my main supporter Danu this like 75 year old dude we called him the godfather it's my girlfriend's mom's partner Lance Lance actually he broke his foot in just before the prologue so he remember that yeah which was and then Ollie took his place he was super good he was like the heart and soul of the party Mark Simpson he's super he was like the physio did a really really good job so yeah big thanks to those guys yeah it's mainly Advance working with Advance is a real pleasure they're
really really good to work with the wings I'm super happy with yeah they looked after me
so I lied that wasn't my last question how did you put your team together that's always kind of an interesting journey
yeah for me it was to have the have the like my mates with me and I learned I live with Mark in New Zealand and he was like yeah if you ever do the X-Alps and back then I thought no man I'm not that crazy to do the X-Alps and then I was like give him a call he's like are you keen to come this year he's like yeah definitely so he flew from America Matthias is a work colleague and I got him into flying back in New Zealand
and I've been doing most of the training with him and he's like the backbone he's done all of the planning with the food with the everything that goes along with the prep work Danu is the godfather like I said he's a 75 year old dude he's the oldest guy in Switzerland to get his paragliding license
that was cool having him you've got the young pups on the team youngish pups and this old dude to keep the balance right Lance is my best mate from back home he knows me when I'm rock bottom and knows the things to say or the things we used to do as kids when you're down with the demons you've got to have that redirection and he
was awesome and my mental coach Tony he helped me with my head to work out small goals and process the whole thing to get to the actual race and also through the race he came on a few days and kind of helped me out so yeah thanks I'd
love to hear more about that can you take a little deeper dive into the coaching the mental coaching you did with Tony and what you learned from that
yeah so with he kind of just broke it down like when I knew that I was doing the X-Alps it was like this massive boom deer in headlights sort of like uh oh what am I doing how am I going to train this is more than what I can handle and then it was talking with him and just breaking it down into small bite-sized pieces and okay if that happens then we do this or let's think of a strategy or something to work on what we need to work on work on the strengths and the weaknesses and we did lots of ski tours together and just general talking just like bringing up situations and scenarios and kind of working around more how my head can deal with it like knowing if I'm at the back and having this kind of fear inside the head how to work with that and to say well it's just a game isn't it at the end of the day it's a game and then as soon as I was working with this game approach like who cares there's a lot of other things going on in the world in this race then I'd be more relaxed with the whole flying and when I found myself getting stressed I couldn't get over this thing it's like okay option A option B
and just kind of trying to not zone in and get like tunnel focused that helped a real lot to kind of like bring it out and like broaden the view okay different options what can I do so he really helped me a lot with that
great stuff thanks bud appreciate it
nice one cheers see you on the flip side somewhere yeah yeah man that was a real
pleasure
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