Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the CloudBase Mayhem. Went all the way across the world for this one to talk to my good friend Wally. Well, we did it by internet so I didn't physically go across the world, but Wally is an instructor and comp pilot down in Oz, in Bright. He's been instructing down there, kind of made it his thing back in 2010, learned how to fly in 2004, which you'll hear about in the show. But he and I know each other from a lot of comps over all the years and he's a very accomplished comp pilot and a lot of fun. And we dug into all kinds of topics on this one, comp tactics and strategies and instructing and learning and being a beginner and mindset and much stuff. I think you're really going to enjoy it.
Something I have not done in a while is the top of the show tip. And I wanted to do it this time because there was an incident in Chelan, the very last day of Nationals. You know, they had the Matty Sr. and his incredible crew out there. They did the Ozone, you know, C class or below comp the week before Nationals. And Chelan can be pretty feisty and they didn't have a single incident. So that was awesome. No reserve tosses, no accidents. And then Nationals, same thing. Until the very last day of Nationals. And I just wanted to talk about what went on there. And this is totally I didn't see any of this. This is just from what I heard. So this isn't picking on the pilot at all. It's just just something to kind of keep in mind.
I think it makes for a good tip because from what I understand, the pilot launched and had a very small cravat, about 20 percent of the wing. And I actually heard this on the radio. We were kind of getting ready for it. I think it was the start of above launch. And somebody had said, just fly the glider, fly the glider, you know, the hours fly it straight. And just a reminder that on most gliders these days, you can fly straight on with a lot of the wing gone just by, you know, careful weight shift and maybe a little bit of opposite break. And, you know, this is all things you learn in SIV, which is really important. But, you know, maybe it was the stress. Being a comp or whatever.
Maybe it wasn't a very good headspace, but the pilot flew away from the hill and then totally overreacted and leaned really hard, apparently, and a lot of break on the flying side and spun it back into the hill the opposite way. So just remember, these are things that we're told when we're first learning. But, you know, you got to get away from the hill before you ever do. Anything. And you can fly a very partially open glider straight without a lot of stress, without a lot of work. And, you know, again, these are things that are better learned in SIV. But in the heat of the moment, you know, you got to remember, get away from the hill and then solve the problem. And from what I understand, this problem was solved totally incorrectly.
He just totally overdid it and massively overreacted. And, you know, the result wasn't great. He's going to have, sounds like pretty full recovery. But, yeah, you don't want to do that to yourself. We always, you know, there's a lot of accidents in the sport, but we hate seeing the ones that are so easily preventable. So keep that in mind. Fly the glider. Get away from the hill before you do anything. Let's get into this show with Wally. I can't say his last name. I actually asked it in the first bit of the show. So I'll let him answer that one. But please enjoy this really fun talk with a good buddy of mine, Wally. Cheers.
Wally, this is fun. I haven't seen you in a while, man. We've all been in COVID lockdown for way too long. I think the last time I saw you was at the World Cup down there. Or maybe it was at the Nordic. I can't remember which one went more recent.
Nordic Open, I want to say. Yeah,
in Macedonia. Yeah, that was cool. I want to get back there.
It was fun. Yeah. I definitely want to go back there. Yeah. That was a
fun place to race.
One day.
Yeah. It kind of reminded me of Rol de Nio. You know, you got the mountains on each side and the valley. You got to get from one side to the other. I really enjoyed it there.
Good to, I think in any race, good to have that option and not just stay on this ridge and burn up and down this ridge like a mad person. But, you know, you can go by the ridge. You can go by the flats. You can pick and choose. I liked that too. It's always good to have a bit of choice and a task. Yeah, I
liked that too. You know, the gaggles would split up. And you'd be like, oh, are they doing better than us? What's happening over there?
That was really quite fun. Trying to pick them out in the distance.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Hey,
my first question is an easy one. How do you say your last name?
Acci Diacono. Oh,
smokes. Where are you guys from? What's the origin, the imagination of that?
Dad's Italian. Emigrated here in the early 60s with a lot of other people. Yeah. Met an Australian lady. And I'm still here. Yeah. Yeah. It's a Sicilian name too, so.
Right. Right. Yeah. Good. Excellent. It's good to see you, man. You got a hat on. This is reverse. Usually it's cold here and warm there, but I guess you guys are coming out of winter.
We are. We are. It's slowly starting to warm up, but it's nice to see the sun again. It's always the case at the end of winter. Just go outside and sit in the sun and get warm. Yeah. Not today. It's raining and it's wet and it's miserable. Do
you guys fly all winter there? Or is it as you just write that off?
We do.
We tend to get low pressures and tend to dominate. So in a fortnight, you'll only get two or three flyable days, but they're special in that you're flying with snow on the mountains out the back. They're bitterly cold, as you'd expect.
It's more of a social affair where you arrive at launch at 10 and you swan around in the sunshine for a few hours and take off for a half hour thermic flight. And then the day is done. And you go home at three. So it's more social than anything else, but it's still good to do. Yeah.
Feather time. There's some good skiing in your parts too. I think not many people know that. But what do you consider yourself? A mountain pilot or a flat lens pilot? Do you get out to Daniloquin and send it with the flies or do you tend to stay in the mountains?
I tend to stay in the mountains. I like mountains. Always have. Always been a mountains guy. Our mountains are not quite as... Yeah. Mountainous as the rest of the world's mountains, but they're still our mountains. They're very fond of them. Once in a blue moon, I'll go out and have a bash in the flats. Again, it's usually more of a social thing. I'll go out with a group of buddies and we'll do a five or six day safari around the place. Yeah. But most of the time it's in the flats and I live so close to the main flying side around here. It's literally a kilometre away. So I live at the base. Literally live 300 metres from the landing paddock.
Oh, I like it.
It's when it's, when it's, it's a little bit of a stretch. It's that close. It's hard to, it's hard to justify a four hour drive. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And we're going to talk about your school and instructing and comps and stuff. We were just chatting. We had some problems with the audio there. The last time I thought the last time I saw you was the world cup, but you're right. It was at the Nordic open. Wasn't it out in Macedonia?
Yeah. Why? Um, my buddy Alex and I went out for literally four weeks of back-to-back racing and yeah, it's where you rocked up for the Nordics, which is our last week. And we'd done three weeks before that. And yeah, it was pretty intense. That was, uh, it was good fun though, but yeah, good place. Macedonia. Yeah. That was cool. Fun place in my heart.
Incredibly cheap. Super. I really liked the flying. It was, it was quite similar to, to roll the Neo more on. It was, it was more spicy in a, in a good way. Um, but you know, it had the, had the flats and it had the mountains kind of ringed it on both sides and you could, uh, the gaggle would often split. You didn't really know it was, are we, do we make the right move or do they make the right move? It was cool. I had that a lot. It was cool. And
yeah, I'm a, I'm a big fan of seeing tasks with, with decisions. So a huge fan of that. I feel, I feel like, uh, a lot of the time we could task setting, you know, there's decisions to be made and there's things to think about with poor task setting. It's just follow the leader and, and, and then it comes not a decision on cross country flying and, and racing. It's more just how fast can you push the bar? Mm-hmm. How good are you in the super? Gaggle of a hundred people. And it is, it is racing, but it's just, I like to have to think about it. So that's, that's the fun part for sure.
What is your history of flying? Give it, give us the, the one page resume of your, how did, how'd you get into all this and how'd you become an instructor? And yeah, is this, is this how you're making your living these days?
Yeah. So, so I started to fly in 2004. Okay. Um, my uncle had learned to fly a few years before I did. And. Yeah, got into the sport through him and he just made an offhanded comment one day of like, you've got a bit of time and you've got an uncle that doesn't use his glider very much. Maybe you should get your license. So I did, um, didn't really think much of it at the time. And, and, you know, it was, it was excuse the cliche, but it was a decision that changed my life. Not that I knew it then, um, flew for a few years intermittently and, and probably a little dangerously to start with in terms of without. Um, much supervision or on sites that I shouldn't have been flying with.
Were you also, were you in Bright back then?
No, no. So I grew up in Southern Queensland, 2000 kilometers from here. And then I moved to Victoria. Well, it was six months after I learned and found Bright about 12 months, 18 months later. And my first trip to Bright was like, whoa, yeah, this place is special. And so, yeah, been coming back ever since. And then, oh, 10, 12 years ago. Moved here. It's now, it's not just my life. It's my life as well. So there. And did you
move there to fly and then you created the school or what did you move there with the intention of, okay, well, I'm going to make this my life.
No. So I moved, I moved here to fly. Um, I'd been coming back for summers and flying my little tail off all summer long while I was a student. And then, um, I arrived here to live here. And, uh, a friend of mine, another instructor, he gave me a job as a, as a tandem bunny. So I did that for a year and then I decided, actually, I think, I think I want to teach people this and I've come from a background of education, outdoor education. So, uh, understanding and managing risk was the outdoor part and then anagogy and pedagogy and teaching kids and adults. And yeah, so it was a very natural progression to go into instruction. Mm-hmm. Um, and teaching and yeah, that was 2010.
So I got my, you know, started my apprenticeship, uh, with Alpine Paragliding and yeah, slowly worked, worked through the instructor qualifications and yeah. And it was, it was, I knew very early on once I started instructing, like, yeah, this is, this is a pretty fun, like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not making myself rich, but it's a good lifestyle. And I'm outside doing something. I love. So. Mm.
Does it, you know, you often hear that, you know, the best way to kill your passion for something is to make it your business. Doesn't sound like it's done that to you at all. Do you, do you, do you find that it frays your, your love of just XC and just sending and being a pilot?
Um, yes and no. And this is something that I've had to grapple with over the last, especially for five years, um, less so in the last one or two, but, uh, there was two or three years in there where, yes, I think it did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I still feel the passion, but it made me, it made me question it well and truly. And I had to come up with a few strategies to ensure that that passion was, you know, re ignited and, and I feel now pretty comfortable about it. You know, I know I'm about to come into the season and I know there's a lot of work ahead, but I'm also really excited about all the other things. You know, I don't, I don't get that excited about going to work, but I do enjoy it. So, um, yeah, there's been, there's been a lot of little, little lessons on the way in order to, to maintain that. enthusiasm because it's you know that's to me that was actually really sad it was about three years ago i was like i feel like i'm not enjoying this as much as i used to and as i said i've come out of that now but um yeah that was it was a sad moment for me like oh maybe i've overdone it and i've seen a lot of instructors who get to that point where they just don't they don't fly themselves they just don't go out on a solo go they'll go and fly a tandem because there's money involved and they'll be on the hill but then they just do not fly a glider for themselves ever and it's i did i saw that i'm never going to i need to put things in motion to make sure i keep keep this enthusiasm up and yeah and
when did you get into comps i
did my first comp in 2011. okay um yeah i rocked up and thought i reckon i know what's going on here i'm pretty good i'm not i'll do well and i was humbled so humbled as we all are in our first company as
we are in our 20th comp sometimes yeah yeah yeah
it's um it was interesting watching the the Superfinal unfold a couple of weeks ago i looked at a couple of big names that are usually always at the top of the list and then looked at some of their social media posts afterwards and i think exactly that you do comps long enough you don't you don't beat yourself up about it sometimes you're on game and your head's in the right place and everything's right and all the decks line up and sometimes you're just not it's it's it's maybe has nothing to do with your gear or how you're flying for the week it might just be your head you know it's ten thousand elements to a comp and it's so easy to get something wrong and i think at the end of the confidence you don't beat yourself up that you know have destroyed everything and it's the end of the world you just go well there'll be one next year or next week or yeah yeah
um just have confidence that that that that that that that that
move on with it yeah
that's yeah i in some ways i kind of cursed myself with comps because i had some really early luck it was complete luck i thought saying oh gosh i must be really good at this but i had a couple comps that went really well right off the bat and and then i realized you know no matter what you got to put in the time and you got to put in the hours doing all the comps and god i've blown so many comps and it's just you know yeah and i feel like now the my approach to it's much healthier because i i don't care i realize and you see it with like you said you see with the guys that are so good and then you know everybody blows it and that's just part of
the deal and the nature of comp too is it doesn't necessarily have to be seven out of seven tasks that you blow you only need to blow one or two and all of a sudden you drop a long way down the rankings yeah exactly it's not not forgiving ftb
helps it helped that a lot but even then it's still you know yeah it's it's a funny game it's a really fun
i love it funny guy but it's a beautiful one though isn't it really a beautiful
game and i like the uh you know i'm going to turkey air next week for the for the world cup and you know since the x-ops i haven't really been that motivated to fly and i like it because it's just there for you you got the rides you got the power so you know you're you're there to fly it's just they make it all so easy so you don't have to decide much you don't look at the weather you just just go fly it's pretty cool
there's a there's a lot to be said for that and uh you know i mentioned before that i live very close to a flying site that's that's that's convenient yes but when you live this close to a flying site and you have your local competition here i always do worse than all the other cops you just you're distracted you've got you know there's there's other things going on you're tied up with the comp in some way and it's when you go you know you leave home you go and have a somewhere different as you say that's your focus you're there to fly you you know you're removing anything else from your mind and that's that's what you do i
had i've got a really
cool inbound cat here mate
yeah oh cool hello kitty sorry um i had a really cool flight i'm at a week a little over a week ago with two of my mentors legends nate scales and matt b shirley called farmer and and uh you know they've been in the game since forever and you know we we had this beautiful big xc flight is seven hours and it was really cool and it's pretty deep and we landed and i said you know what guys it's so interesting that you know we we ended up taking quite a deep line at the end of the day that worked it was good and we had clouds that help us out and but in the beginning of the day we took this line that we always take and and uh and i said you know if we'd been in a comp and a bunch of people were like oh my god we're gonna be in a comp and we're gonna a bunch of people came out here creagle comes out here he would have crushed us today and you know why because we did what we always do because we know it works but we don't we weren't flying the terrain we weren't flying you know because to fly the train you got to go way deeper really leaving the roads here but it was it's what you would do if you just came here if you came here and you took off you would show us how to fly this place you know what i mean because it's this is our place we know how to do it but we don't really know how to do it because because you know it's i and i I think that happens a lot in comps.
You go to Macedonia, you don't know anything, and somebody fresh just crushes it because they look at it with open eyes.
Yeah, they're not predetermined. As you say, a predetermined route of, oh, we go here because that's what we do. I've seen that in the Bright Open over the years where a visiting pilot comes and does something and it's like, that makes total sense. Why haven't we been doing that for years? But that's just how they fly it. And we, the locals, think, oh, we know how to fly this area. That's
very interesting.
Yeah. Yeah, there's deeper
psychology going on there. It does happen.
You're in Oz. It's a long way from other places to go to comps. Is that typically how you do it, like what you and Alex did? You'll kind of just go, okay, well, it's going to take a month and bang out a few because otherwise it's got to get really expensive.
Yeah. Yeah, it is. That is about the only way. That's the only way to do it. Unfortunately, we, I say we, Australian people are literally in, you cannot leave the country. Yeah. It's very hard to leave the country at the moment. I know Nick Baines did get out for the X-Alps, but there's all the problems with getting home. Yeah. Yeah, okay. This year aside and recent years aside, that's typically what people do. We go out for, especially you go to Europe and you spend two months floating around. You put as many comps as you can in that time because to go, just to jump over the border to do a quick comp is just not financially viable. It's too far and you do need to put a few comps in your calendar to go.
Then that gets tricky too, especially if you're traveling with families and loved ones. Yeah.
What have you learned in all your comp experience that you could share in terms of results, getting there, getting there? Getting better? What you've learned over the years that adds up to just having more fun?
Having more fun. Yeah.
Because it's all well and good, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. To say, you know what? Results don't matter. I know, but we all do have egos. It is more fun to do well. For sure. Like I said, we were talking about, I don't kick my helmet anymore. When I bomb out, it's like, whatever, whatever. Big deal. It's just a comp. I used to, but now I really, I can't honestly say I pretty much don't care, but pretty much, I totally.
Yeah. No, I don't know. I'd be the same. If I did poorly in a comp, I'd be disappointed. Yeah. I don't think I'd beat myself too much up about it. What has helped in that regard? I think number one is sheer quantity. When you've only done one or two, then yes, you do care very much. When you do them for a long time and you know there will be another comp, then that's probably a big part of it. You know that there'll be another one. So - Yeah. You leave this one behind and you go again. The other thing for me was two things. One, not necessarily looking at a result for my satisfaction, not my satisfaction, but my confirmation that I've done all right. I remember there was a point where I was right on the verge of actually starting to figure some things out with comps.
I say that because I know I still haven't figured things out. Yes, I feel like sometimes I have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think
that's the first time I
realized, geez, I didn't know much back then. So anyway, I was at a comp where I was just on the verge of figuring things out and I'd been lent a glider to fly, which was an ENB and I was flying an ENC at the time. So it's like, oh yeah, why not? Whatever, I'll go flying. And I didn't do particularly well in the results, but I remember reflecting on that experience and saying, actually, I was doing quite well up until this mistake on that day. And then, you know, you look at the next day and went, oh, I was - I was leading the group for all of that and then stuffed up here. And then I guess I took the positives out of it, you know, definitely found the negatives and went, this is where I stuffed up and this is why I stuffed up. This is the decision I made for sure. But looked at all the positives and went, I was doing a lot of good things here.
And I guess I just told myself, be patient. You're doing a lot of good things. If you can get rid of a couple of bad things, then all of a sudden, you know, you'll have a little bit more success with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was very big in my mind with comps was when I think I've stuffed up, I've got left behind, I've dropped a gaggle or two. I don't know when it was, but that understanding, that knowledge of - it's actually pretty easy to catch up. So I remember originally it was like, oh, I've made a mistake and I've got left behind and the group is so far in front that I'm never going to catch them. And then somewhere in there, I could actually make a couple of good decisions. And I'd be like, what? I'm rolling into goal with everybody else. Yeah.
What happened? So that realization that when you think you're a long way behind, you're very often not. It really is only a couple of minutes. And if that next group gets stuck for a couple of minutes, you've caught themselves up. You caught them up and it's, yeah, it was just a realization that sometimes you're not as far back as you think you are.
Do you have any kind of headspace you try to get in or any kind of mantras when you're flying or any kind of - Yeah. When you're flying, you have a good comp and you go, okay, how do I repeat that? How do I take that to the next one? Is there anything, any kind of, I don't know, seance you do? You roll the dice?
Yeah. There's a few things for me that work well. First thing is I need to have all my personal affairs in order before I start. Turn the business phone off or I give it to Clara, my partner, and she deals with it for the duration of the competition. Make sure all my... I don't have any personal affairs. I don't have any bills to pay or anything like that. There's no life worries as I go into the comp. I usually spend a few hours, an afternoon in the days leading up, just relaxing and focusing on me to get myself calm. I mentioned this before we started recording that going from instruction to competition is a tricky thing. That's why I take that time.
Mm-hmm. To give myself time just to get myself in the flying head space. Then on task days, I've got a very simple mantra that I run through my head and that is start well, no original thoughts, and make goal. I know that sounds simple. Start well. If you're in the start group, and again, you don't have to be the highest person right at the edge. Even if you're in the group, you started your day well with everybody. If you're starting low, behind, all of a sudden, you've got to catch up from the beginning. No original thoughts actually came from a group of us that came from Gareth Carter and
Curry Ellis, mostly those two. This was we're racing as a group. You don't need to, from the first glide of the day, go out and win the day from the first glide. Play the game for 80 % of the race, and then the last 20%, you make your move. No original ideas. Original ideas, discard them, was pretty much that. You've got this great idea, 10 % into the task, that you're just going to run down that ridge and smoke everybody. No, no, stop. Just check your thinking there for a second.
Putting on a handbrake in your mind, not to fly slow, but just to reach. Recheck your original ideas of, this is going to be amazing, but no, no, no. Just think about that.
Then the make gold, and that's the classic one. Everyone knows that one, but sometimes you need to dig deep. I
think that that one's one that I lost the plot on for a while. You just get in this racing headset and push, and push, and make a move. Remember, you make a move and land before ESS. Your points suck. Yeah. You've got to get the goal. They do. They do, don't they? You've
just got to
get the goal. You've got to make that work.
I see this with the consistency thing. The really consistent pilots. Luke just won three tasks at the super finals. I guess this doesn't always work, but you don't have to win tasks to win the comp.
No, you don't. That's actually one of my mantras, just come second. Yeah. I mean that. If I'm trying to win tasks, which I don't do very often. I'm not a task winner. Occasionally, I'll pull one off, but my attitude of come second is if you're trying to win tasks, then maybe you might be pushing it to take too many risks. My mantra of come second, I hope I don't come second. I hope I win it for sure, but my mantra of come second is take enough of a risk to be
successful. I hope I don't be consistent. I'll rephrase that. Take enough of a risk to do well, but don't be too conservative that you're going to come 15th every day. Yeah, come second, come second, come second. That's what I aim for. Usually, the person that comes first is different. Yes. Usually. Right, right,
right. Do you pay attention to who's who? Do you let who you're with in the gaggle influence you over maybe somebody else? Or do you let them influence you? Or is everyone just, they're all just gliders giving you information?
No, I do take a very keen notice on who's who. I've actually got a pretty good memory on remembering who's who as well. Part of that is not, I guess towards the end of the competition, then who's who in terms of where I need to place for the day, that's important. But that to me is the last task of the competition. I need to be in front of this person. Therefore, I'll take a bit more risk, for example. Yeah. I think the who's who for most of the flying is more of a, what's this person like? Is this someone that I want to go out with just the two of us? Is this person going to help me? Is this person someone that is just a bit too impetuous and goes too hard and very often puts himself on the ground?
Is this someone that I can utilize their psychology, the way they race, the way they train, the way they think against them? If I push a little harder now, I'm going to watch this person push themselves very, very hard to be in front of me. And now they're going to be down there in front of me helping me out. So I use them a little bit that way and I'm still learning that. But I do take notice of who's who. Yes and no. If I don't know them, just a glider in the sky. If I do know them and I know, especially know their personality, then yes, I'll most certainly take notice of who that person is. So I can. I can utilize their mindset for my advantage. Sounds funny.
What's the best tip you've ever gotten from the Aussie squad? I know you guys have the kind of team thing or Kari or Alex or anybody that you've raced with. Can you think of a tip that's really been kind of a, whoa, that helped?
The best, I guess, a bit of advice that I got given was from Guy Anderson. I was having a chat. I was talking to him.
I was talking to him about the!
!
I was talking to him about the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,
um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um We've stuffed up. We've made a mistake. We figured out what it was. We've let our emotions go on that particular thing. And then going to with Adele's thinking, what next? What do I need to do now? I need to get high. I need to catch up with the group. That's all I need to worry about. I don't need to worry about the rest of the race. I just do that one thing. And then once I've done that one thing, then I move on to the next one thing. It's a lot easier to compartmentalize than a whole race in one.
Yeah, I've said this before on the show, but I read a ton of sports psychology books going into this X-Alps, just trying to work on the whole mental game more than in the past. And you see the same things in these books over and over and over again. And one of those is very much, you're going to make mistakes. You got to take the mistake and throw it in the trash. Like you said, learn from it and get rid of it. Think about the best athletes. And the world in baseball, basketball, they miss all the time. They got hung up on that. They would just go to hell. If you're a 300 batting, if you got a 300 batting average, which means you get a hit three out of 10 times, you're world-class.
It doesn't sound that good, though, does it? It
doesn't sound that good. No, it doesn't. But yeah, we should all follow more of Adele's advice. She's really good at all that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, I think that that is a big one because, you know, the best bomb out.
And it's not an easy thing to teach oneself either.
No, it's not.
It really isn't. It takes a lifetime.
Still working on it. We are still working on it.
Yes. And we always will be, for sure. What's your favorite place to go fly? If you could leave. I know COVID has been really tough in Oz to go out and do. But if you could go anywhere right now and go to a conference. Just go fly. See where would you go?
Probably the place that I like racing the most. And partly because I know I'm no good at it there.
Slovenia. Just had a mind like told me in Slovenia. Yeah. The first time I raced there and flew there, I fell in love with it. And it's just a magical, magical valley. So much happens and so much happens fast there. And I remember the first time I went there. I was doing a serial car. And that was just a race that I have ever driven before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that
has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened
before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened before that has ever happened hundreds of kilometers or miles. You just, you know, everything's small and compact. It's arena racing. And those places, to me, I really enjoy because you can explore, you can play. Even if you're not racing there, it's just, you know, oh, today is the day that we're going to fly the back ridge. So we go and fly the back ridge. Yeah, good one. So Slovenia, I think, and I like Slovenian people.
Yeah, again, it's so beautiful. The Soka River is just, man, every time you fly over it, you're just going, did I take some drugs today or what happened? It's so beautiful. It's a
neat country. It's more vivid than it usually is, isn't it? Yes, it's just amazing. Yeah,
I haven't raced there. I've flown there a bit, but if I haven't raced there, I'd love to. I think that'd be really cool.
And the Slovenians, so yeah, obviously they, you know, the Slovenians are a very small nation. They do pretty well in the world stage of paragliding. Yes. They're always, their nation's somewhere in the top 10 of that, I'm certain. Yep, always. I think Tolmin's one of the reasons for that. And then just down the road, and this is one of the reasons it's such a good place for competitions, is Liak and Liak, you know, with their funny little accent. They're always a very special place, very special place. And it really is, you know. The rest of the Alps is in torrential rain, and there's a task happening at Liak. And so to go and spend a week somewhere and go racing with a group of buddies, I'd say, yep, take me there any day.
Mm-hmm. You've made this. This, your lifestyle, living your livelihood, does free flight, does it make your life better or worse when it comes to relationship, other things? I know, you know, Mark Watts, when I had him on the show, I said, you know, what would you do differently if you could rewind the clock? And he, I give up fucking paragliding. Yeah, he was very adamant. Yeah, he was adamant that that's what he would have done differently. But, yeah. Have you any kind of scale in between those two extremes?
I don't think I could pitch my life without it. It's such a big part of my identity. No, I couldn't live without it. Sorry, Gav. And to be honest, that worries me sometimes because, you know, I've seen a few incidents and accidents, and I've had friends that are, you know, not doing so well because of incident accidents.
And it does worry me what would take place. What would it take for me to stop this sport? And that's a worrying thought. It's probably the thing that keeps me safe a lot of the time as well. A healthy step back from the edge of unnecessary risk. But couldn't imagine life without it. My wife very often says, if I'm getting a bit grumpy, she's like, rightio, get your gear, get in the car, going up the hill. You need to go and get your feet off the ground. Yes, dear. Thank you, dear. Is she a pilot? She's right. She's dead right. No, she used to be a pilot, but same. She had an accident. And she's got lifelong body issues with that, feet and back. And, yeah, so it's close to home. It's always there. Yeah.
But she's a lovely woman. She's super understanding. And she knows that flying is pretty important to me. And she supports that. And, you know, sometimes she's a bit saddened that she doesn't fly anymore. But there's other things in life. And I think that's what we're all about. So.
Do you, this is an impossible question. I hate this question, but we're kind of on this theme. Why, you kind of answered a little bit there, but I'm making, think even harder about it. Why do you fly? Could you, could you put it in? Can you articulate that?
I guess it's changed over the years.
Now, yes, yes. It is a little bit part of my identity. Lollipop. I think I'm probably the guy that flies a lot of people like, oh, you're the guy that flies. Yeah. That's, that's not the reason I fly. That's, that's sort of probably what everyone else thinks. I think when I was new, it was that unbridled freedom. Like I can go anywhere.
Now, now I think the thing that I love the most is the learning process and the, and the journey. Remember, I remember when I was 200 hours, I thought, geez, I do this pretty well. And then when I got to 500, I went, holy crap, I knew nothing back then. And then we got to a thousand, I went, whoa, I knew nothing back then. So, you know, and, and I think I'm, I'm in love with that, that the, the ever, ever changing nature of it all. And, and just moving on with that. And, and I guess, I don't, I don't identify myself as solely an instructor. Yes, I am an instructor and that is my job, but to, to then nurture that and see that in others, that's, that's actually pretty nice for me as well.
Yeah. Let's switch over to instructing. Do you, do you, do you follow a particular system, you know, like APPI or that kind of thing, or is it, or is Australia, how does it work in Australia?
So yeah, in Australia, we, we operate all our endorsements and training under Sports Aviation Federation of Australia, SAFAA. All the qualifications go through them. So we send the paperwork off and they process it. Looking at the requirements, I'd say, especially the license. The license course, the license qualification called a PG2. I would say that is absolute bare minimum for somebody to get safely into the sport. And not that we say this directly to our clients, but it really is. You now have enough knowledge to go out and hopefully not hurt yourself. That's, that's what we're after. And, you know, you know, that, that first hundred hours, 200 hours, that's just super critical.
You know, you don't know what you don't know when you're new. And so many people either leave the sport really early because they don't have the support around them and don't have a bit of understanding. Or they scare themselves because flying, doing something they didn't even know was an issue until the thing came up. But yeah, so everything, everything runs under SAFAA. And, and yeah. The, the way you run a course with a school is subjective to that individual.
We do the requirements plus some other things that we think are important and necessary. It's really, it's really hard to tell what other schools are doing.
I've gone and worked with a few different schools and I think that's, as an instructor, that's really important to go and work with another school. Because they'll give you ideas of things. You know, an analogy to explain pitch control, whatever. That can be really important. And also things that you go, hmm, yeah, I don't actually like the way they do that. Good to know. So, you know, any, any instructor should be critically reflective enough to look at their own, their own processes and adapt and change them based on what other people are doing and the best practice at the time. We still, we still, there's still a lot of instructors that, you know, they're not going to be able to do that. And so, you know, I think that's, that's a big part of the reason why we started teaching 30 years ago and haven't changed much in 30 years.
And that's a worry. That's a huge worry. You know, the sport's changed a lot. Why are we still teaching, you know, something that's that old? I think being up to date and with your finger on the pulse of the sport and especially the equipment is, is pretty damn important.
What, what, what, you kind of talked about it there a little bit, but what makes a good instructor? You know, what, who, what's the best instructor? What kind of personality, what kind of person is, is built for it? I
think if we all reflect on how schooling and think about the teachers that were the good teachers, I think there's a common theme and that is that they care. I know that sounds, that sounds very simple, but an instructor that cares both for the safety and for the, the understanding of a student is going to be a good instructor.
And that includes that student that has a strong sense of confidence
that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have
confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that they have confidence that somewhere in there and going, oh, I've just had enough of this. And, you know, it's just another groundhog day of the same over and over again. So, yeah, I think having different elements within the instruction, so you're doing some tandems, you're doing some coaching, you're doing some, you know, training of new students. Doing a lot is quite important because, you know, you're keeping yourself fresh and you're thinking about it.
Doing the same thing over and over and over and over again is, one, you're going to get complacent and, two, you're not everyone has a lack of compassion. But, you know, if you're doing the same thing over and over again, then you've done it 55 times. The student's done it once. They're going to pick up that this person's really not into this and that's going to translate as not good instruction coming across because it doesn't seem personal and doesn't, you know, the individual feels like they're not cared for. And, yeah, I hope that answers your question a little bit. Totally.
Totally. In all these years of instructing, 11, I think now, you get all these beginners through and you said, you know, this is something I've grappled with a lot when I think about new people getting in. You know, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know at 500 hours. You don't know at 1,000. There's still, there's all these stages we go through where I'm constantly going, good God, I'm stupid. I can't believe I didn't know that. You know, I'm constantly learning. And, but what should specifically beginners avoid? What are some of the things, if you could just pack up all that knowledge you've got in your head all these years and put it in somebody, I realize that's too many things, but if there's a couple just big ones that you see beginners make that they should just steer clear from.
Yeah. Yeah, I guess going at it alone is by far the biggest one. And I say that. I think I've learned a lot from experience. I went in alone to start with, and that was just so the wrong way to go about it. It really was. So not, not going at it alone, using the collective knowledge of the community to, to aid you in your progression. This is where it gets tricky. This is where it gets tricky though, because you know, you can say, go and talk to an experienced pilot, but a lot of, a lot of pilots want to just explain things for the sake of explaining things. So what I'd say is do your research. Go and find the pilots that actually are experienced and will give you good advice for your level. And then go and talk to them opposed to just go and talk to someone that has a qualification that looks like it's fancy.
But how would a beginner know who that person is? Yeah, here
within lies the issue really. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that's a really hard question. And I do see that I'm a little critical when I see someone who I don't think is, you know, a good pilot. I think it's like a, in Australia, we have safety officers who do exactly that. When, when a club signs someone as a safety officer and I think, whoa, that person was a safety officer. That's, that's bad news because, you know, being a good pilot and I use my inverted commas, my fingers there, being a good pilot doesn't necessarily mean, means you fly well, great. But it doesn't necessarily mean you understand conditions. Yeah. And the emotions that a new pilot's going through.
So you understand conditions for a new pilot. So seeing, seeing a lot of good pilots say, oh, you'll be totally fine. It's great conditions. It's great conditions for them, but it's not for a new pilot. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a hard question to answer because, you know, how, how did, does a new pilot find that correct person? And yeah, really hard. And, and with a lot of good intentions from more experienced pilots. Sometimes those good intentions go wayward because they just haven't thought about it for, for someone who's at that point in their flying career, you know, they've just finished their course. Of course, they're not going to deal with strong ass thermals in the middle of the day. But yeah, don't think I've quite answered your question there, but it's, it is, it's a tough one.
It's a really hard one. And I think this is, this is probably the, if, if a nation has a certain, you know, certain way of dealing with this, then I'd really like to find that out because, you know, the, the, the recipe in a lot of the world I feel is people get their license. And then the first 50, 100 hours they're blundering around the dark trying to figure things out and trying to figure out who to listen to and, and getting conflicting bits of information from two experienced pilots and then trying to figure that out. And so, yeah. To, you know. The result is they either leave the sport because they don't know what's going on or they have a scare or an accident. Sorry. So it's, it's a, it's a tough one.
It's a really tough one.
The, the, it was actually in Macedonia. We had dinner one night with the Swedes and there was a whole bunch of them there because it was the Nordic Cup, of course. And they were telling me that their method is it's really club based. So if you come up through the club, you're going to get a lot of good stuff. And you get to a certain level and you get pretty good. Then the club basically pays you to go on a trip to Annecy, you know, or somewhere that's pretty close, but, you know, kind of a flying vacation for a week. And you're kind of the defacto instructor, you know, so you get to go, you're getting this free trip. So you're vested in kind of working because you're getting this great trip to Annecy, but you're, you're there to mentor.
Not necessarily instruct. Those are, they're kind of different. The students, the new people on the club. And so it's this rolling thing you roll through and you, and it's expected of you. If you come up through the club, then you're expected to, because it is different. Like you said, you know, there's a point where, okay, I can't be your instructor anymore. You're not paying me anymore. And I have to instruct, you know, but we need mentors, don't we? And one of the questions I get all the time. Well, how do you find mentors? You know, if you're not kind of an extrovert and out there, you know, in the community and making it happen, it can be hard to get.
How do you find them? Yeah. Yeah. I think that, that sounds like, that sounds like it's, it's a cultural thing within their organization. It's expected from when you start that you are going to, once you've got to a certain level, you will mentor other pilots. And I think that's. As long as that culture is instilled and it'll take many years, let's say if Australia adopted that, it would take a number of years to get that.
Wally, Will Gadd talks about, you know, the, the flow process and both the, you know, Adele Hanti's, you know, Chicks at Mihai's flow and also flow sports. So kayaking and mountain bike riding and, you know, any kind of thing where there's, you know, not climbing, you know, flow sport. So paragliding is very much a flow sport. Are there, I imagine you being in the mountains there in, in bright, you partake in other things other than flying. Do you have any other sports that you feel like have really contributed to your learning this sport? And cause Will always talks about, you know, when he has friends that come from climbing, cause he's such a climber that, that get into it. He's always quite a bit more worried about them as opposed to a kayaker or a surf.
You know, cause they're. Yeah. They, they deal with energy in different ways.
Yeah. Yeah, sure. I guess you, you talking about the literally the you're working with an environment. Yeah. Gravity in a way. Yeah. Yeah. And, you
know, and, and just, you know, whereas climbing's just, just, you know, moves and technical and strength and ours is really using the energy of the universe to power us along.
Yeah. Yep. So yeah, I do, I do get into lots of different things actually in the, in the mountains. It's a beautiful thing about Brighton. This area is it's quite a playground things like mountain biking and I've got a good buddy who used to race mountain bikes quite seriously and, and flies paragliders at a very high level as well. And he has said that too, that, you know, when he goes out on the trails for a mountain bike ride, he's actually doing a bit of flow training in the
mountains. And
that, you know, he tries to make everything as smooth as possible. And he relates that to especially gliding the gliding part of our game, you know, thermaling is a little bit different because we're adjusting as we go. But the gliding and the getting the flow and staying on the, the lifty line. So he, he, when he goes for a ride, he feels it's a, it's a training exercise for feeling that flow and going home. Remember Mads Syndergaard saying as well that. Yeah. And we, we, as pilots, we do our best flying when we're not thinking about it too much. And I know when, when people are brand new, they're probably part of the reason they can only fly for a couple of hours at a time is because they are rationally thinking about absolutely everything.
And after some time when you don't need to think about, you know, your, your pitching of your wing, you just, you just do it automatically. And it's, you know, that's comes autonomous in your mind. And all of a sudden you're not thinking about. All the minor things you were just, you know, using your subconscious, your brain's just functioning and you're going exactly going with the flow. I'm pretty sure that's the reason Felipe called his, his company float lighters, because exactly that, that beautiful feeling you get when, when you feel like you're in timing with, with the natural environment, be it, you know, a water water down a river or, or the clouds in the sky. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not something that comes quickly.
And I think that comes once you have a good body of skills and knowledge and especially flying your aircraft as well. So the skills part and, and then, yeah, you turn your mind off a little bit and just do the subconscious thing and be sure, you know, sometimes you do need to bring yourself into the present and be rational about what's going on. But yeah, that's probably easier said than done. And we, we as humans probably consciously put ourselves in the conscious arena because that's what we feel we're in control of. But I do, I do think that's wise advice from Will to, you know, to, to learn, learn to flow with what, what you're feeling and going along around you.
Do you, not to take us to a dark place at all, but. Yeah. And that would have been a lot better if that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you.
And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you. And that would have been a lot better for you.
And that would have been a lot better for you. Yeah, it's a tough one. It's tough because it is still a risk sport. Anyone that says that it's not a risk sport is not being truthful.
It's over. I guess now I have taken a big step back from the edge of risk. I didn't ever think I was standing right on the edge of the precipice there, but I know now that I don't need to take a big risk in order to fly big lines or do flights that I'm really quite proud of. I don't feel like I need to take those risks. I feel like you've got to wait for the conditions to do it so you can't force it. I guess that's probably it. You're not forcing it.
You're not just sort of, no, I'm going to do this flight because I'm going to do it. Today is my only day off, so I'm going to do it. No, you're just like, well, no, it's not going to happen today. Clouds aren't high enough. Wind's in the wrong direction. Too gusty. Whatever. Not going to do it today. So stepping back from the edge, I don't think that's easy when people are new because they're keen. They're really eager. They've got almost something to prove of like I want to feel like I'm good at this sport, therefore I need to, you know, get in the air as much as possible and I'm going to take this risk. And it's a terrible thing, but you fly for long enough, you do see incidents and accidents.
And it's a terrible thing because it saddens everyone, even if it's just a bad landing and a sprained ankle, and that's a great outcome in the nicest way possible. You never want to see people get hurt. And sometimes that's really, especially, you know, going back to instruction and mentoring, that's really hard to portray to somebody who's new that, you know, just chill out. Like you don't need to be flying in these conditions. It's beyond your pay grade. And, you know, there's going to be another day that is flyable in the future. I'll guarantee you that. The mountains will still be here. Just relax. And I think everyone does come to that conclusion eventually, but no,
we're not going to do it today. I think everyone wants to see incidents and accidents. And unfortunately it does happen. And especially when you think that was totally unavoidable. That's really disheartening. And, you know, that hurts my soul to see people do silly stuff purely on a I need to prove myself or I need to fly in these conditions because this is my only day off this week and those sorts of things. And yeah, that's yeah.
Trying to make what is will he has a saying for this, trying to make the day fit your goal.
your desires your desires yeah instead of the other way around you know if it's not what you think it is go swimming
yeah exactly right something safer yeah
you're going to be fine if you just go swimming well let's end this on some kind of fun ones here best and worst wing
best and worst wing
best wing look
I'm flying the X1 at the moment and it is beautiful yeah it is a beautiful wing I've been flying I've only ever flown as my own gliders gin and nibble I flew the boom for a couple of years there and although I did like it as soon as I went from the boom to the leopard then to the X1 the X1 was just like oh this is such good performance but without the workload so that was really nice I guess the wing that as I was going through my progression that I absolutely fell in love with was the Arctic 2 that that was the
Arctic 2 strung
a chord with me at the time I loved it I've still got it in the shed there I just can't get rid of it really
worst wing oh that's a tough one yeah look I'd say the worst wing is not something that I've flown a lot but it's probably I don't know if you want to publish this I really dislike sponsors it's good I really dislike Nova wings yeah and not that they're bad wings I just find them very lifeless I find them very boring
just I like a glider that has a bit of pitch and roll and tells me something and I find Nova wings as I said not that I've flown them in great quantities every time I fly them I'm just like that's pretty boring so in saying that I'm sure there is a market for people that just want a really quite boring wing so it's a subjective answer so yeah I'm not not poo-pooing Nova it just doesn't work for me so
sure it's a subjective question actually you know one person's poor another person you know we all love and hate different things I mean there's been there's been some Niviac wings along the way that you know that other people couldn't stand and I loved yeah it's
really interesting it's funny that isn't it yeah
it's super funny what's your favorite piece of equipment it could be anything your goggles but could it be something you don't even fly with I guess but what's your favorite you know the thing that you just oh this makes my flying so much better
I think I've got to just say a fly master
ah really yeah see there you go I don't I hate the fly master do you yeah we have to use them for the for the X-Alps and they do a good job with live tracking stuff but yeah I don't I've never liked that device yeah it's interesting
yeah okay I like it because it's reliable like I've had my fly master for 10 years I had one of the the navs the first navs that came out after the after the B1 versions and it's my go-to I know the sound I know how it works it's reliable as anything had it for 12 years still works
that's like my fly tech 6030 I just can't give it up that's old ancient I know I love it I still love it but it's and everybody that uses fly master loves them it's just it's never never worked for me yeah I think it's a great device great
the the other thing I've been reading recently on forums is the XC Racer and people love the XC Racer to me the XC Racer no I'm the opposite I really I cannot get in sync with it I've actually I'm about happy with it now and I've dampened it on a scale of 0 to 10 I've dampened it to 8 to make it whoa yeah I know really that's a lot of dampening yeah so I should send you my tone settings
I you know you've probably heard about this but it's I send my tone settings and I they weren't mine it was another and I don't remember who it was it was a world cup pilot because I was having the same trouble when I took it out of the box I just thought whoa hmm what are you doing to me and I couldn't core for the light I just couldn't find a core I was so used to a more averager you know and I couldn't make it work and you know there are people like I had Alex Roby on the show and he uses both he'll use you know a flymaster and the XC Racer without it dampened and he can kind of tune his ear I guess to both but I just I mean that doesn't sound that simple to me I like things simple so but this yeah I have tone settings for the XC Racer that I've given out to at this point hundreds of people and it's really really nice it they were actually built to kind of match it's actually built to match the fly the Flytec 6030 but that's the same as the flymaster yeah
okay yeah I'd be very interested in that but it's not that
much dampening I have mine at two and a half but it's but I think it's more of that in combination with the other tone settings I think yeah
I think it's a whole package it needs to go together yeah I'm more than happy to try it and test it that's good
I'll send them to you buddy thanks mate well it's great to uh great to converse with you and have a chat it's been too long I hope it's not gonna be that much longer I've got a couple clients down there in Oz and they're talking about I don't think wherever you get out of here till 2023 I hope it lightens up for you guys and you get to travel we all get to travel again start racing
again it's a very closed door down here at the moment and yeah yeah it's been really close I know I know the cats that usually go racing overseas every year every couple years we are itching we are seriously itching I
am sure you are yeah
what do you do yeah be patient is your
local comp scene been pretty good has that been okay or has that been yeah it missed you yeah
it oh look again so uh yes and no so um last year we had downgrade one from a nationals to a essentially a state level um and that lost a few people because of that but um in the trend over the last three to four years is is people want to race and people want to get out there and do that um yeah which which is good for you know I feel like a lot of people in Australia have an anti-competition sentiment so um but you know in in recent years I think that's being adored a bit and people want to get out there and and try something different and go racing and there's a lot of new pilots coming onto our racing scene which is good um we don't want to look like dad's army um a lot of old blokes kicking around right yeah
you know dad's army don't you yep
I'm one of them yeah they're not my words Gab they're not my words
well I'm uh yeah psyched to race with you again at some point here I'm sure it'll happen and uh yeah happy to happy to follow the squad down there and learn from you guys and thanks for sharing all this man I appreciate it it's always a pleasure
thanks for having me on I feel um I feel blessed I feel like uh there's a lot of big names that are out there I've been listening to a lot of podcasts over a long time and I feel very humbled that hey Gab asked me to be on it it's quite nice so yeah thanks mate good
excuse to reach out and you've got a really keen community down there and we've got a ton of listeners in Australia and so yeah I've heard
that yeah it'll
be really psyched to hear your voice well thanks buddy I appreciate it
no worries no worries see ya
if you find the cloud-based mayhem valuable you can support it in a lot of different ways you can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher or however you get your podcast that goes a long ways and helps spread the word you can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media you can talk about it on the way up to launch with your pilot friends I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way and of course you can support us financially this show does take a lot of time a lot of editing a lot of storage and music and all kinds of behind the scenes costs so if you can support us financially all we've ever asked for is a buck a show and you can do that through a one-time donation through PayPal or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out we put a new show out every two weeks so for example if you did a buck a show and every two weeks it'd be about $25 a year so way cheaper than a magazine subscription
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nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show but we feel like you should hear we don't put any of that behind a paywall if you can't afford to support us then just let me know and I'll set you up with an account of course that'll be lifetime and hopefully you'll be in a position someday to be able to support us but you'll find all that on the website all of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought Cloudbase Mayhem merchandise t-shirts or hats or anything you should be all set up you should have an account and you should be able to access all that bonus material now thank you so much for listening I really appreciate your support and we'll see you on the next show thank you
bye bye bye bye bye bye