Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the CloudBase Mayhem. Went all the way across the world for this one to talk to my good friend, Wally. Well, we did it by internet, so I didn't physically go across the world, but Wally is an instructor and comp pilot down in Oz, in Bright. He's been instructing down there, kind of made it his thing back in 2010, learned how to fly in 2004, which you'll hear about in the show. but he and I know each other from a lot of comps over all the years and he's a very accomplished comp pilot and a lot of fun and we dug into all kinds of topics on this one. Comp tactics and strategies and instructing and learning and being a beginner and mindset and much stuff. I think you're really going to enjoy it.
Something I have not done in a while is the top of the show tip And I wanted to do it this time because there was an incident in Chelan, the very last day of Nationals. You know, they had the Matty Sr. and his incredible crew out there. They did the ozone, you know, C class or below comp the week before Nationals. And Chelan can be pretty feisty and they didn't have a single incident. So that was awesome. No reserve tosses, no accidents. And then Nationals, same thing until the very last day. And I just wanted to talk about what went on there, and this is totally—I didn't see any of this, this is just from what I heard, so this isn't picking on the pilot at all. It's just, just something to kind of keep in mind.
I think it makes for a good tip because, from what I understand, the pilot launched and had a very small cravat, about 20 percent of the wing, and I actually heard this on the radio is we were kind of getting ready for the start of above launch and somebody had said, "Just fly the glider, fly the glider." You know, in other words, fly it straight. And just a reminder that on most gliders these days, you can fly straight on with a lot of the wing gone just by, you know, careful weight shift and maybe a little bit of opposite break. And, you know, this is all things you learn in SIV, which is really important, but, you know, maybe it was the stress of
Being a comp or whatever, maybe it wasn't a very good headspace, but um, the pilot flew away from the hill and then totally overreacted and leaned really hard, apparently, and a lot of break on the flying side and spun it back into the hill the opposite way. So just remember, these are things, things that we're told when we're first learning, but, um, you know, you got to get away from the hill before you ever do anything. And you can fly a very partially open glider straight without a lot of stress, without a lot of work. And, you know, again, these are things that are better learned in SIV, but in the heat of the moment, you know, you got to remember, get away from the hill and then solve the problem.
And, um, from what I understand, This problem was solved totally incorrectly; he just totally overdid it and massively overreacted, and you know, the result wasn't great. He's gonna have, sounds like pretty full recovery, but uh, yeah, you don't want to do that to yourself. We always, you know, there's a lot of accidents in the sport, but we hate seeing the ones that are so easily preventable. So keep that in mind. Fly the glider, get away from the hill before you do anything. Let's get into this show with Wally. I can't say his last name, I actually—she asked it in the first bit of the show. so I'll let him answer that one. But please enjoy this really fun talk with a good buddy of mine, Wally. Cheers.
Wally, this is fun. I haven't seen you in a while, man. We've all been in COVID lockdown for way too long. I think the last time I saw you was at the World Cup down there. Or maybe it was at the Nordic. I can't remember which one went more recent.
Nordic Open, I want to say. Yeah,
in Macedonia. Yeah, that was cool. I want to get back there. it
Was fun, yeah. I definitely want to go back, yeah. That was a
fun place to race.
one day yeah
It was, it was, uh, yeah, it kind of reminded me of roll the neo, you know? You got the the mountains on each side and valley, you got to get from one to one side to the other, and I really enjoyed it there. Good.
To, uh, I think in any race, good to have that option and not just stay on this ridge and burn up and down this ridge like a mad person. But, you know, okay, you can go by the ridge, you can go by the flats, you can, yeah, you can pick and choose. I like that. It's always good to have a bit of choice in a task. Yeah, I
like that too. It was, you know, the gaggles would split up and you'd be like, "Oh, are they doing better than us? What's happening over there?"
That was, yeah, that was really, that was really fun. Pick them out in the distance and, yeah, yeah, yeah, hey.
My first question is the easy one: how do you say your last name?
achi diakono oh
Smokes, where are you guys from? What's... where's the... what's the origin of that?
Dad's dad's Italian, um, emigrated here in the early 60s with a lot of, of other people. Um, yeah, met, met an Australian lady and I'm still here. Yeah, it's a Sicilian name too, so right.
Right, yeah. Good, excellent. It's good to see you, man. You got a hat on? This is reverse; usually it's cold here and warm there, but I guess you guys are coming out of winter.
We are, we are slowly starting to warm up, but it's, um, it's nice to see the sun again. It's always the case at the end of winter, just go outside and sit in the sun and get warm. Yeah, not today. It's, it's raining and it's wet and it's miserable. Do
you guys fly all winter there or is it – you just write that off?
We do. We tend to get low pressures and tend to dominate. So in a fortnight, you'll only get two or three flyable days. But they're special in that you're flying with snow on the mountains out the back. They're bitterly cold, as you'd expect.
It's more of a social affair where you arrive at launch at 10 and you swan around in the sunshine for a few hours and take off for a half-hour thermic flight, and then the day's done and you go home at three, so it's more social than anything else, but it's still good to do.
Feather time. There's some good skiing in your parts too. I think not many people know that. And what do you consider yourself, a mountain pilot or a flatlands pilot? Do you get out to Daniloquin and send it with the flies or do you tend to stay in the mountains?
I tend to stay in the mountains. I like mountains, always have, always been a mountains guy. Our mountains are not quite as mountainous as the rest of the world's mountains, but they're still our mountains. They're very fond of them. Once in a blue moon, I'll go out and have a bash in the flats. Again, it's usually more of a social thing. I'll go out with a group of buddies and we'll do a five or six-day safari around the place. Yeah, but most of the time it's in the flats and I live so close to the main flying site around here. it's literally a kilometer away. So I live at the base, literally live 300 meters from the landing paddock. So when it's that close, it's hard to justify a four hour drive. Yeah.
And we're going to talk about your school and instructing and comps and stuff. We were just chatting where we had some problems with the audio there. I thought the last time I saw you was the World Cup, but you're right. It was at the Nordic Open, wasn't it? Out in macedonia yeah
My, um, my buddy Alex and I went out for literally four weeks of back-to-back racing, and yeah, that's where you rocked up for the Nordics, which is our last week, and we'd done three weeks before that. Yeah, it was pretty intense. That was, uh, it was good fun, though. But yeah, good place, Macedonia. Yeah, that was a great fun place in my heart.
Incredibly cheap super, I really like the flying. It was, it was quite similar to roll the neo more on it; was it was more spicy in a good way. But it had the flats and it had the mountains that kind of ringed it on both sides and you could, the gaggle would often split. You didn't really know it was, did we make the right move or did they make the right move? It was cool. I liked that a lot. It was cool.
Yeah. I'm a big fan of seeing tasks with decisions. I'm a huge fan of that. I feel like a lot of the time with good task setting, You know, there's decisions to be made and there's things to think about with poor task setting. It's just follow the leader and and and then it becomes not a decision on cross country flying and and racing; it's more just how fast can you push the bar and how good are you in the super gaggle of 100 people? And it is, it is racing, but it's just I like to have to think about it. That's that's the fun part, for sure. What
Is your history of flying? Give it, give us the the one-page resume me of your: how did you get into all this, and how did you become an instructor? And yeah, is this, is this how you're making your living these days, yeah?
So, so I started to fly in 2004, okay? Um, my uncle had learned to fly a few years before I did, and yeah, got into the sport through him. And he just made an off-handed comment one day, like, "You've got a bit of time, and you've got an uncle that doesn't use his glider very much; maybe you should get your license." So I did. Um, didn't really think much of it at the time, and you know, it was, it was, excuse the cliche, but it was a decision that changed my life, not that I knew it then. Um, flew for a few years intermittently, and, and probably a little dangerously to start with, in terms of, without, um, much supervision, or on sites that I shouldn't have been flying with, were
You awesome, were you right back then?
No, no, so I grew up in southern Queensland, 2000 kilometers from here, and then I moved to Victoria more than six months after I learned and found Bright about 12 months, 18 months later. And my first trip to Bright was like, "Whoa, yeah, this place is special." So yeah, been coming back ever since. And then 10, 12 years ago, moved here. It's now, it's not just my life, it's my livelihood as well. So yeah, and did you
move there to fly? And then you created the school, or what? Did you move there with the intention of, okay, well, I'm going to make this my life? No.
So I moved, I moved here to fly. Um, I'd been coming back for summers and flying my little tail off all summer long while I was a student, and then um, I arrived here to live here, and a friend of mine, another instructor, he gave me a job as a as a tandem and bunny, so I did that for a year, and then I decided, actually, I think I think I want to teach people this, and I've come from a background of education, outdoor education, so understanding and managing risk was the outdoor part, and then anagogy and pedagogy and teaching kids and adults, and yeah, so it was a very natural progression to to go into instruction and teaching, and and, yeah, that was 2010.
I started my apprenticeship with alpine paragliding and, yeah, slowly worked through the instructor qualifications. And, yeah, I knew very early on once I started instructing, like, yeah, this is pretty fun. Like, yeah, I'm not making myself rich, but it's a good lifestyle and I'm outside doing something I love. love so
Does you know, you often hear that, you know, the best way to kill your passion for something is to make it your business. Doesn't sound like it's done that to you at all, do you? Do you, do you find that it frays your, your love of just XC and just sending and being a pilot?
Um, yes, and no. And this is something that I've had to grapple with over the last, especially for five years less, so in the last one or two. But there was two or three years in there where, yes, I think it did. It didn't kill the passion, but it made me question it well and truly, and I had to come up with a few strategies to ensure that that passion was, you know, reignited and I feel now pretty comfortable about it. You know, I know I'm about to come into the season and I know there's a lot of work ahead but I'm also really excited about all the other things. I don't get that excited about going to work but I do enjoy it. So, yeah, There's been a lot of little lessons on the way in order to, to maintain that enthusiasm because it's, you know, that's to me, that was actually really sad.
It was about three years ago, I was like, I feel like I'm not enjoying this as much as I used to. And as I said, I've come out of that now, but um, yeah, that was, it was a sad moment for me like, oh, maybe I've already done it. And I've seen a lot of instructors who get to that point where they just don't, they don't fly themselves, they just don't go out on a solo guide. They'll, I'll go and fly a tandem because there's money involved, and they'll be on the hill, but then they just do not fly a glider for themselves ever.
I saw that and thought, I'm never going to. I need to put things in motion to make sure I keep this enthusiasm up.
And when did you get into comps?
I did my first comp in 2011.
Yeah, I rocked up and thought, I reckon I know what's going on here. I'm pretty good. I'll do well. And I was humbled, so humbled, as we all are in our first comp, buddy.
As we are in our 20th comp sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was interesting watching the Superfinal unfold a couple of weeks ago. I looked at a couple of big names that are usually always at the top of the list and then looked at some of their social media posts afterwards. And I think exactly that. You do comps long enough. You don't, you don't beat yourself up about it. Sometimes you're on game and your head's in the right place and everything's right and all the ducks line up, and sometimes you're just not. It's, it's, it's maybe has nothing to do with your gear or how you're flying for the week; it might just be your head. There's, you know, it's 10,000 elements to a comp and it's so easy to get something wrong, and I think at the end of the comp, as long as you don't beat yourself up that you know destroyed everything and it's the end of the world, you just go, well, there'll be one next year or next week.
Yeah, yeah.
i mean just
move on with it, yeah.
That's, yeah, I in some ways I kind of cursed myself with comps because I had some really early luck. It was complete luck. I thought, saying, "Oh gosh, I must be really good at this," but I had a couple comps that went really well right off the bat. And and then I realized, you know, no matter what, you got to put in the time and you got to put in the hours doing all the comps. And god, I've blown so many comps, and it's just, you know, yeah. And I feel like now the my approach to it's much healthier because I, I don't care. I realize, and you see it with, like you said, you see with the guys that are so good, and then you know, everybody blows it, and that's just part of
The deal and the nature of comp, too, is it... it doesn't necessarily have to be seven out of seven tasks that you blow; you only need to blow one or two and, all of a sudden, you drop a long way down the rankings. Yeah, exactly. It's not... not forgiving, ftb.
helps it, helped that that a lot, but even then it's still, you know, yeah, it's it's a funny game, it's a really fun
I love it's a funny guy, I do love it, but it's a beautiful one, though, isn't it really? It's a beautiful
Game, and I like the, uh, you know, I'm going to Turkey Air next week for the, for the World Cup. And you know, since the X-Ops, I haven't really been that motivated to fly. And I like it because it's just there for you. You got the rides, you got the power, so you know you're, you're there to fly. It's just they make it all so easy, so you don't have to decide much. You have to look at the weather, you just, just go flying. It's pretty cool.
There's a, there's a lot to be said for that. And, uh, you know, I mentioned before that I live very close to a flying site, and that's, that's, that's convenient, yes. But when you live this close to a flying site and you have your local competition here, I always do worse than all the other companies. It's never the local, it's never the local boy that wins. You just, you're distracted. You've got, you know, there's other things going on. You've tied up with the comp in some way. And it's when you go, you know, you leave home, you go somewhere different, as you say, that's your focus. You're there to fly. You, you know, you're removing anything else from your mind. And that's, that's what you do. I
had I've got a really
cool inbound cat here, yeah.
Oh cool, Hello Kitty. Sorry, um, I had a really cool flight. I'm at a week, a little over a week ago, with two of my mentors, legends Nate Scales and Matt BeSure, we call him Farmer, and and uh, you know, they've been in the game since forever. And, you know, we, we had this beautiful big XC flight is seven hours and it was really cool. And it was pretty deep and we landed. And I said, you know what guys, it's so interesting that, you know, we, we ended up taking quite a deep line at the end of the day that worked. It was good. And we had clouds that help us out. And, but in the beginning of the day, we took this line that we always take. And, and, uh, and I said, you know, know, if we'd been in a comp and a bunch of Europeans, a bunch of people came out here, Chrigel comes out here, he would have crushed us today.
And you know why? Because we did what we always do because we know it works, but we don't, we weren't flying the terrain. We weren't flying, you know, cause to fly the train, you got to go way deeper, really leaving the roads here. But it was, it's what you would do if you just came here, if you came here and you took off, you would show us how to fly this place. You know what I mean? Cause it's, this is our place. We We don't really know how to do it because, you know, and I think that happens a lot in comps. You go to Macedonia, you don't know anything, and somebody fresh just crushes it because they look at it with open eyes.
And they don't, yeah, they're not predetermined. As you say, a predetermined route of, oh, we go here because that's what we do. I've seen that in the bright open over the years where a visiting pilot comes and does something and it's like, that makes total sense. Why haven't we been doing that for years? but that's just that's just how they fly it and and you know yeah we the locals that think oh we know how to fly this area that's
That's very interesting. Yeah, yeah, there's deeper psychology going on there. Does
happen, um, yeah, you're
You're in Oz. It's a long way from other places to go to comps. Is is that typically how you do it? Like, what you and Alex did, you'll kind of just go, okay, well, it's gonna take a month and bang out a few? Because otherwise, it's got to get really expensive of dirt, yeah.
Yeah, it is. It that that is about the only way to do it. Um, unfortunately, we we say we um, Australian people are literally in, you cannot leave the country. Um, yeah, it's very hard to leave the country at the moment. I know Nick Names did get out for the X-Alps, but you know, there's all the problems with getting home. Yeah. Um, yeah, okay. This year aside, and recent years aside, um, that's typically what people do. We go out for, especially you go to Europe and you spend two months floating around and you put as many comps as you can in that time, because to go, you know, just to to jump over the border to do a quick comp is just not financially viable. It's too far. And yeah, you do need to put a few comps in your calendar to go, and then you know, that that gets tricky too, especially if you're traveling with families and loved ones.
Yeah, what
Have you learned, uh, in all your comp experience, that you could share in terms of
Results getting there, getting better. You know what? You've learned over the years, that adds up to just having more fun, having
more fun yeah
Because it's all well and good, isn't it, to say, you know, what, results don't matter? I know, but we all do have egos. It is more fun to do well, for sure, and you know, but I like, I said, like we were talking about, you know, I, I don't kick my helmet anymore, you know, when I bomb out, it's like I now, whatever, whatever, big deal, it's just a comp. I used to, but, you know, now I really, I can honestly say I pretty much don't care, but pretty much, not totally.
Yeah, no, I don't know, I'd be the same. If I did poorly in a comp, I'd be disappointed. Yeah, I don't think I'd beat myself too much up about it. What has helped in that regard? I think number one is sheer quantity.
When you've only done one or two, then yes, you do care very much. When you do them for a long time and you know they will, Another comp then, that's probably—that's probably a big part of it, you know, that there'll be another one, so you leave this one behind and you go again. Uh, the other thing for me was two things: one, not necessarily looking at a result for my satisfaction, uh, not my satisfaction, but by my confirmation that I've done all right. Um, I remember, I remember that there was a point where I was right on the verge of actually starting to figure some things out with comps, and I say that because I know I still haven't figured things out. Yes, I feel like sometimes I have, and and then in five, ten comps' time, I'll realize, "Geez, I didn't know much back then." So yeah, anyway, um, I was a—I was at a comp where I was just on the verge of figuring things out, and I'd been lent a glider to fly, which was an A & B, and I was flying an ANC.
At times, it's like, "Oh yeah, why not? Whatever, go flying." And didn't do particularly well in the results, but I remember reflecting on that experience and saying, "Actually, I was doing quite well up until this mistake on that day." And then, you know, you looked at the next day and went, "I was leading the group for all of that, and then stuffed up here." And then, I guess, I took the—the positives out of it, you know, definitely found the negatives and went, "This is where I stuffed up, and this is why I stuffed up. This is the decision I made, for sure." But looked at all the positives and went, "I was doing a lot of good things here." and I guess I just told myself, be patient. You're doing a lot of good things. If you can get rid of a couple of bad things, then all of a sudden, you know, you'll have a little bit more success with that.
The other thing that, the other lesson that was very big in my mind with comps was when I think I've stuffed up, I've got left behind, I've dropped a gaggle or two. I don't know when it was, but that understanding, that knowledge, it's actually pretty easy to catch up. So I remember originally it was like, I made a mistake and I got left behind, and the group is so far in front that I'm never going to catch them. And then somewhere in there, I could actually make a couple of good decisions and be like, "What? I'm rolling into goal with everybody else. What happened?" So that, that realization that when you think you're a long way behind, you're very often not. It really is only a couple of minutes, and if that next group gets stuck for a couple a minute, so you caught themselves up, you caught them up.
And it's, yeah, it was, it was just a realization that sometimes you're not as far back as you think you are. Do
You have any kind of, you know, headspace you try to get in, or any kind of mantras when you're flying, or any kind of, um, you know, okay, you—you have a good comp and you go, okay, how do I repeat that? How do I, you know, how do I take that to the next one? Is there anything, any kind of, I don't know, seance you do? It, you roll all the days, yeah.
There's a, there's a few things for me that, um, work well. First, first thing is, I need to have all my personal affairs in order before I start. I turn the business phone off, or I give it to Clara, my partner, and and she deals with it for the duration of the competition. Um, make sure all my, you know, I don't have any bills to pay or anything like that. There's, there's, there's no life worries as I go into the comp. Um, I usually spend a few hours, you know, an afternoon, uh, in the days leading up, just relaxing and focusing on me, um, to, to get myself calm. Um, and I mentioned this before, before we started recording, that, uh, going from, from instruction to competition is a tricky thing, and that's why I take that time to give myself time just to, to get myself into flying headspace.
And then on, on task days, I've got a very simple mantra that, that I run through my head, and that is, start, well, no. No original thoughts and make goal, and I know that sounds simple. Start well, like if you're, if you're in in the start group, and again you don't have to be the highest highest person right at the edge, even if you're in the group. Um, you've started your day well with everybody. If you're starting low behind, all of a sudden you've got to catch up from from the beginning. Um, the no original thoughts actually came from from a... there's a group of us that came from Gareth Carter and Carrie Ellis, mostly those two.
Um, this was, you know, we're racing as a group. You don't need to, from the first glide of the day, go out and win the day from the first glide. You know, play the game for 80 of the race, and then the last 20 you make your mood. So no, no original original ideas, original ideas discard them, was pretty much that. You know, you've got this great idea 10 into the task that you're just going to run down that ridge and smoke everybody. No, no, stop. Check your thinking there for a second, so you know, just, just, you know, putting on a handbrake in your mind, not, not to fly slow, but just to, to recheck your, you know, original ideas of this is, is going to be amazing, but no, no, no, just, just think about that.
Um, yeah, and then, and then the make gold, and that's, that's the classic one, everyone knows that one, but you know, sometimes you need to dig deep. I
think that that one's one that I lost the plot on for a while and and you know, you just get in this racing headset and push and push and make a move and remember, you make a move and land before ess, your points suck, you gotta get the goal. They do, you just gotta get the goal, you know, you gotta make that work. And you know, you see it, I see this with the consistency thing, you know, that the really consistent pilots, you know, I mean Luke just won three tasks at the Superfinal, so I guess this doesn't always work, but you don't have to win tasks, no.
you don't no that's that's actually one of my mantras has come second, yeah, and you know, and I mean that like, Like if I'm trying to win tasks, which I don't do very often, I'm not a task winner, occasionally I'll pull one off, but my attitude of come second is if you're trying to win tasks, then maybe, maybe you might be pushing it to take too many risks. So my mantra of come second, I hope I don't come second, I hope I win it for sure, but my mantra of come second is take enough of a risk to be consistent. Well, no, I'll rephrase that. Take enough of a risk to do well, but don't be too conservative that you're going to come 15th every day.
So yeah, come second, come second, come second. That's what I aim for. Do you? And usually, usually the person that comes first is different. Yes, usually, right? Right.
Um, do you—do you pay attention to who's who? Do you—do you let who you're with in the gaggle influence you over? Maybe somebody else, or is everyone just—they're all just gliders giving you information, um?
No, I do take a very keen notice on who's who, and I've actually got a pretty good memory on remembering who's who as well. Part of that is not, I guess, towards the end of the competition, then who's who in terms of where I need to place for the day—that's important—but that to me is the last task of the competition. I need to be in front of this person; therefore, I'll take a bit more risk. For example, the the who's who for most of the flying is more of a, what's this person like? Uh, is this is this someone that I want to go out with, just the two of us? Is this person going to help me? Is this person someone that is just a bit too impetuous and and goes too hard and very often puts himself on the ground?
Is this someone that I can utilize their their Their psychology, their the way they race, the way they think against them, you know, if I push a little harder now, I'm going to watch this person push themselves very, very hard to be in front of me, and now they're going to be down there in front of me helping me out, so I use them a little bit that way. And and I'm still learning that, but um I do take notice of who's who, um yes and no, if I don't know them, just a glider in the sky, but yeah, if I do know them, and I know, especially knowing their personality, then yes, almost certainly take notice of who that person is, so I can, you know, utilize their their mindset for my advantage. Sounds funny, what's
The best tip you've ever gotten from, you know, the Aussie squad? I know you guys have the—the kind of team thing, or Carrie, or Alex, or anybody that you've raced with. Can you think of a tip that's really been kind of—I thought, whoa, that helped.
The best, I guess, bit of advice that I got given was from Guy Anderson. I was having a chat to him, one Brit Open, two pearls of gem from him, pearls of wisdom, I should say. The first one was just that old saying of a memory of a goldfish and letting go of what has just happened. Um, you know, we—we all make bad mistakes and bad decisions while we're racing, and it's too easy. And I remember this, early on for me, it was—was, you know, you'd make that bad decision and then the rest of the day I'd be in this negative headspace where then you'd—you'd make a bad decision and then you'd throw a hail mary to try and make it up, then you'd throw another hail mary and another one, and all of a sudden you'd find yourself on the ground.
Um, so here's—here's you. And it was more than just that sentence, but we had a good chat about it of, you know, just learn to let that go and move on. And, yeah, easier said than done, you know, especially when our emotions involved with it. But, yeah, so that was a big part of it, just learning to go, yep, I stuffed up. I acknowledge that. This is the emotion that I'm feeling that is associated with that. Let it go. What's my next job? And um, another person that was helpful and that was Adele Honte. I met her in Macedonia as well, and and her very simple saying, "one thing at a time," and I guess they go hand in hand.
So we've stuffed up, we've made a mistake, we figured out what it was, we've let our emotions go on that, that particular thing. And then going to with Adele's thinking, "What next? What do I need to do now? I need to get high, I need to catch up with the group." That's all I need to worry about. I don't need to worry about the rest of the race. I just do that one thing, and then once I've done that one thing, then I move on to the next one thing. It's a lot easier to compartmentalize than a whole race in one, yeah.
I, I, uh, I've said this before on the show, but I read a ton of sports psychology books going into this X-Alps, just trying to work on the whole mental game more than in the past, and that you see the same things in these books over and over and over again. And, and one of those is very much, you're going to make mistakes. You got to take the mistake and throw it in the trash. You know, like you said, learn from it and get rid of it. You know, you think about the best athletes in the world in baseball, basketball, and you know, they miss all the time. They got hung up on that. They would just go to hell. You know, I mean, If you're a.300 batting, if you got a.300 batting average, I mean, which means you get a hit three out of ten times, you're world class, you know.
It doesn't, it doesn't sound that good though, does it? It
Doesn't sound that good? No, it doesn't. But yeah, I think, yeah, we should—we should all follow more of Adele's advice. She's really good, all that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, I think that—that is—is a big one because, you know, the best, the best bomb out and
It's not, it's not an easy thing to to teach one's self either, no.
it's not
It really isn't. Still working on it. We on, I guess, still working on it.
Yes, yeah, and we always will be, for sure. What's your favorite place to go fly if you could leave? I know the cove has been really tough with in in Oz to go out and do, but if you could go anywhere right now and go go to a comp or just go flag, see where would you go? Um, probably
the probably the place that I like racing the most, and and and partly because I know I'm no good at there, um, Slovenia. I just had a mind like told me in Slovenia, yeah, the first the first time I raced there and flew there, I fell in love with it, and it's just a magical, magical valley. So much happens, and so much happens fast there, and I remember, I remember the first time I went there, I was doing a cereal cup a long time ago, and I thought the normal thing you did was you fly along and you take a thermal and you glide to the next one. Didn't didn't realize until much later, like, no, people don't stop, no.
You don't stop hammering, you don't stop in Slovenia, you just punch, um...
But that, that just, uh, just a beautiful playground. Uh, the Saint Andre les Alpes is a bit similar in that it's, you know, it's small, it's compact. Everything's, you know, we're not, you're not trying to go hundreds and hundreds of kilometers or miles. You just, you know, everything's small and compact. It's, it's arena racing, and, and those places to me, I really enjoy because you can, you can explore, you can play, even if you're not racing there. It's just, you know, oh, today is the day that we're going to fly the back ridge, so we're going to play the back ridge. Yeah, good fun. So Slovenia, I think, and I like Slovenian people. Yeah.
Again, it's so beautiful. The soka of rivers, just... yeah, the time you fly over, you're just going... I take some drugs to there. What happened? It's so beautiful. It's a
neat country, more vivid than it usually isn't, it yes, it's just amazing, yeah
I never, I haven't raced there. I've flown there a bit, but I haven't raced. I'd love to; I think that'd be really cool. The
and the the slovenians uh so yeah obviously they you know the slovenians are a very small nation they do pretty well in the world stage of paragliding I think, you know, they're always – their nation's somewhere in the top ten of that, I'm certain. Yep, always. I think Tolmin's one of the reasons for that. And then just down the road, and this is one of the reasons it's such a good place for competitions, is Leac and Leac. You know, with their funny little accent, they're always a very special place, very special place, and it really is. You know, the rest of the Alps is in torrential rain and there's a task happening at Leac. And so to go and spend a week somewhere and go racing with a group of buddies, I'd say, yeah, take me there any day.
You, you've made this your lifestyle, living your, uh, livelihood does free flight. What does it make your life better or worse when it comes to relationship, other, other things? I know, you know Mark Watts, uh, when I had him on the show, I said, "You know, what would you do differently if you could rewind the clock, Lucky?" I give up fucking paragliding. He was very adamant that that's what he would have done differently. But any kind of scale in between those two extremes?
I don't think I could picture my life without it. It's such a big part of my identity. No, I couldn't live without it. Sorry, Gav. And to be honest, that worries me sometimes because Because, you know, I've seen a few incidents and accidents and I've had friends that are, you know, not doing so well because of incident accidents.
It does worry me what would it take for me to stop this sport and that's a worrying thought. It's probably the thing that keeps me safe a lot of the time as well. A healthy step back from the edge of unnecessary risk but couldn't imagine life without it. But my wife very often says, if I'm getting a bit grumpy, she's like, Radio, get your gear, get in the car, we're going up the hill, you need to go and get your feet off the ground. Yes, dear, thank you, dear. Is she a pilot too? She's right, she's dead right. No, she used to be a pilot, but same, had an accident.
Yeah, got lifelong body issues with that, feet and back. Yeah, so it's close to home, it's always there. But she's a lovely woman and she's super understanding and she knows that flying is pretty important to me and she supports that. And sometimes she's a bit saddened that she doesn't fly anymore, but there's other things in life there really are.
This is an impossible question. I hate this question, but we're kind of on this theme. Why, you kind of answered a little bit there, but I'm making think even harder about it. Why do you fly? Could you... could you put it in? Can you articulate that I...
guess it's changed over the years, um, now yes, yes, it is a little bit part of my identity, um, wally, the guy that flies a lot of people, like, oh, you're the guy that flies? Yeah, that's, that's not the reason I fly. That's, that's sort of probably what everyone else thinks. I think when I was new, it was that unbridled freedom, like I can go anywhere.
Now I think the thing that I love the most is the learning process and the journey. I remember when I was 200 hours, I thought, geez, I do this pretty well. And then when I got to 500, I went, holy crap, I knew nothing back then. And then when I got to 1,000, I went, whoa, I knew nothing back then. And I think I'm in love with that, the ever-changing nature of it all and just moving on with that. And I guess I don't identify myself as solely an instructor. Yes, I am an instructor and that is my job. But to then nurture that and see that in others, that's actually pretty nice of me as well.
Let's switch over to instructing. uh do you do you do you follow a particular system you know like APPI or that kind of thing or is it or is australia how does it work in australia
Um, so yeah, in Australia, we we operate all our endorsements and training under Sports Aviation Federation Australia sapper. Um, all the qualifications go through them, so we send the paperwork off and they process it. Uh, looking at the requirements, I'd say especially the license, the license course, the license qualification called PG2, I would say that is absolute bare minimum for somebody to get safely into the sport. And not that we say this directly to our clients, but it really is; you now have enough knowledge to go out and hopefully not hurt yourself. That's that's what we're after. Um, and you know, you know that that That first 100 hours, 200 hours, that's just super critical.
You don't know what you don't know when you're new. So many people either leave the sport really early because they don't have the support around them and don't have a bit of understanding, or they scare themselves because doing something they didn't even know was an issue until the thing came up. But, yeah, so everything runs under SAFA. And, yeah, the way you run a course with a school is subjective to that individual.
We do the requirements plus some other things that we think are important and necessary. And it's really hard to tell what other schools are doing.
I've gone and worked with a few different schools, And I think that's, as an instructor, that's really important to go and work with another school because they'll give you ideas of things that, you know, an analogy to explain pitch control, whatever. That can be really important. And also things that you go, hmm, yeah, I don't actually like the way they do that. Good to know. So any instructor should be critically reflective enough to look at their own processes and adapt and change them based on what other people are doing and the best practice at the time. There's still a lot of instructors that started teaching 30 years ago and haven't changed much in 30 years.
And that's a worry. That's a huge worry. The sport's changed a lot. Why are we still teaching, you know, something that's that old? I think being up to date and with your finger on the pulse of the sport, and especially the equipment, is is pretty damn important. What
What you kind of talked about it there a little bit, but what makes a good instructor? You know what, who, what kind of personality, what kind of person is is built for it? I
think uh And if we all reflect on our schooling and think about the teachers that were the good teachers, I think there's a common theme, and that is that they care. I know that sounds very simple, but an instructor that cares both for the safety and for the understanding of a student is going to, A, develop a good relationship with that student, and then, B, that student's more likely to respond to instruction and those sorts of things. And the whole learning process is going to be better. Um, so an instructor that cares, so that's not driven by financial means and is not burned out, and and I think that's that's an important thing.
I don't think one can be an instructor for 40 years without getting to somewhere in there and going, oh, I've just had enough of this, and you know, it's just another groundhog day of the same over and over again, so So, yeah, I think having different elements within the instruction, so you're doing some tandems, you're doing some coaching, you're doing some, you know, training of new students. Doing a lot is quite important because, you know, you're keeping yourself fresh and you're thinking about it. Doing the same thing over and over and over and over again is, one, you're going to get complacent, and two, you're,
not everyone has a lack of compassion, but, you know, if you're doing the same thing over and over again, and then you've done it 55 times, the student's done it once, they're going to pick up that this person's really not into this and that's going to translate as not good instruction coming across because it doesn't seem personal and the individual feels like they're not cared for. Yeah, I hope that answers your question a little bit. Totally.
In all these years of instructing, 11 I think now, Now, um, you get all these beginners through and you said, you know what, this is something I've grappled with a lot. When I think about new people getting in, you know, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know at 500 hours, you don't know the thousand are still, there's all these stages we go through where I'm constantly going, good God, I'm stupid. I can't believe I didn't know that, you know, I'm constantly learning. Uh, and, but what should specifically beginners avoid? Avoid wonder, what are some of the things? If you could just pack up all that knowledge you've got in your head all these years, put it in somebody—I realize that's too many things—but if there's, there's a couple just big ones that you see beginners make that they should just steer clear, yeah.
Yeah, I guess, I guess, um, going at it alone is by far the biggest one, um, and I say that from experience. I went alone to start with, and that was just so the wrong way to go about it, really was, um, so not not going out alone, using the collective knowledge of the community to to aid you in your progression. This is where it gets tricky. This is where it gets tricky, though, because you know, you can say, "Go and talk to an experienced pilot," but a lot of pilots want to just explain things for the sake of explaining things. So what I'd say is, do your research, go and find the pilots that actually are experienced and will give you good advice for your level, and then go and talk to them, opposed to just go and talk to someone that has a qualification that looks like it's fancy.
But how would a beginner know who that person is?
Here within lies the issue, really.
Yeah, that's a really hard question. And I do see that. I'm a little critical when I see someone who I don't think is like in Australia, we have safety officers who do exactly that. When a club signs someone as a safety officer and I think, whoa, that person is a safety officer, that's bad news because, you know, being a good pilot, and I use my inverted commas with my fingers there, being a good pilot doesn't necessarily mean, means you fly well, great. But it doesn't necessarily mean you understand conditions and the emotions that a new pilot's going through. So you understand the conditions for a new pilot. So I've seen a lot of good pilots say, oh, yeah, we're totally fine.
It's great conditions. It's great conditions for them, but it's not for a new pilot. So, yeah, it's a hard question to answer because, you know, how does a new pilot find that correct person? And really hard. And with a lot of good intentions from more experienced pilots, sometimes those good intentions go wayward because they just haven't thought about it for, for someone who's at that point in their flying career, you know, they've just finished their course, their course. They're not going to deal with strong ass thermals in the middle of the day. But, you know, it's, yeah, I don't think I've quite answered your question there, but it's, it is, it's a tough one. It's a really hard one. And I think this is probably the – if a nation has a certain way
of dealing with this, then I'd really like to find that out because the recipe in a lot of the world I feel is people get their licence and then the first 50, 100 hours, they're blundering around the dark, trying to figure things out and trying to figure out who to listen to and getting conflicting bits of information from two experienced pilots and then trying to figure that out and and so, yeah, to you know, the the result is they either leave the sport because they don't know what's going on or they have a scare or an accident. Um, so it's it's a it's a tough one, it's a really tough one. Um, the
The, uh, it was actually in Macedonia. We had dinner one night with, uh, the Swedes, and there was a whole bunch of them there because it was the Nordic Cup, of course. And they were telling me that their method is, it's really club-based. So if you come up through the club and you get to a certain level and you get pretty good, then the club basically pays you to go on a trip to Annecy, you know, or somewhere that's pretty close, but, uh, you know, kind of a flying vacation for a week, and you're kind of the de facto instructor. So you get to go, you're getting this free trip. So you're vested in kind of working because you're getting this great trip to Annecy, but you're there to mentor, not necessarily instruct.
They're kind of different. The students, the new people in the club. And so it's this rolling thing you roll through and it's expected of you. If you come up through the club, then you're expected to, because it is different. Like you said, you know, there's a point where, okay, I can't be your instructor anymore. You're not paying me anymore. And I have to instruct, you know, but we need mentors, don't we? And one of the questions I get all the time is, well, how do you find mentors? You know, if you're not kind of an extrovert and out there, you know, in the community and making it happen, it can be hard to get. how
Do you find them? Yeah, yeah, I think that—that sounds like that sounds like a, uh, it's, it's a cultural thing within their organization. It's expected from when you start that you are going to, once you've got to a certain level, you will mentor other pilots. And I think that's as long as that culture is instilled, and it'll take many years. Let's say if Australia adopted that, it
would Wally, Will Gadd talks about, you know, the, the flow process and both the, yeah, you know, Adele Honte's, you know, Csikszentmihalyi's flow and also flow sports. So kayaking and mountain bike riding and, you know, any kind of thing where there's, you know, not climbing, you know, flow sport. So paragliding is very much a flow sport. Are there, I imagine you being in the mountains there in, um, in Bright, You partake in other other things other than flying? Do you have any other sports that you feel like you've really contributed to your learning this sport? And because Will always talks about, you know, when he has friends that come from climbing, because he's such a climber that that get into it, he's always quite a bit more worried about them as opposed to a kayaker or a surf, you know, because they're they they deal with energy in different ways.
Yeah,
Yeah, sure. I guess you're talking about the literally the, uh, you're working with an environment, yeah? Gravity, in a way. Yeah, and you
know, and just, you know, whereas climbing's just, just, you know, moves and technical and strength, and ours is really using the energy of the universe to power us along, yeah.
Yep, it, um, so yeah, I do, I do get into lots of different things, actually. In the, in the mountains, um, it's a—the beautiful thing about Brighton, this area, is it's quite a playground. Things like mountain biking, and I've got a good buddy who used to race mountain bikes quite seriously and flies paragliders at a very high level as well, and he has said that too, that when he goes out on the trails for a mountain bike ride, he's actually doing a bit of flow training in that he tries to make everything as smooth as possible, and he relates that to especially gliding, the gliding part of our game, you know, thermaling is a little bit different because we're adjusting as we go, um, but the the gliding and getting the flow and staying on the uh the lifty line, so he he when he goes for a ride, he feels
It's a, it's a training exercise for feeling that flow and going. Well, remember um Mad Syndicate saying as well that we, we as pilots, we do our best flying when we're not thinking about it too much. And I know when, when people are brand new, they're, it's probably part of the reason they can only fly for a couple of hours at a time is because they are rationally thinking about absolutely everything. And after some time, when you don't need to think about, you know, your pitching of your wing, you just, you just do it automatically. And it's, you know, that's becomes autonomous in your mind. And all of a sudden, you're not thinking about all the minor things, you're just, you know, using your subconscious, your brain's just functioning, and you're going, exactly going with the flow.
I'm pretty sure that's the reason Felipe called his, his company Float Lighters, because yeah, exactly that, that beautiful feeling you get when, when you feel like you're in timing with, with the natural environment, be it, you know, a water water down a river, or or the clouds in the sky. Um, yeah, it's it's not something that comes quickly, and I think that comes once you have a good body of skills and knowledge, and especially flying your aircraft as well. So the skills part, and and then, yeah, you turn your mind off a little bit and just do the subconscious thing. And, yeah, sure, you know, sometimes you do need to bring yourself into the present and be rational about what's going on, but, yeah, that's probably easier said than done.
And we we as humans probably consciously put ourselves in the conscious arena because that's what we feel we're in control of. But I do I do think that's wise advice from Will to, you know, to to learn learn to flow with what what you're feeling and going along around you
Do you, um, not to take us to a dark place at all, but you know, you, you as all of us have, we've been in the sport for a long time. You mentioned, um, you know, Alex and and your gal, and you know, some some bad accidents that you've witnessed, seen, uh, been a part of. How do you approach risk at this point in your career? How do you, how do you grapple with, you know, that never-ending gravity, gravity?
Yep, um, yeah, it's a tough one. It's, it's tough because it is still a risk sport. Anyone that says that it's not a risk sport is not being truthful. Um, it's over, I guess. I guess now I, I have taken a big step back from the edge of risk. I didn't ever think I was standing right, right on the edge of the precipice there. But I know now that I don't need to take a big risk in order to fly big lines or do flights that I'm really quite proud of.
I don't feel like I need to take those risks. I feel like you've got to wait for the conditions to do it so you can't force it. And I guess that's probably it. You're not forcing it. You're not just sort of, no, I'm going to do this flight because today's my only day off, so I'm going to do it. No, you're just like, well, no, it's not going to happen today. Clouds aren't high enough, wind's in the wrong direction, too gusty, whatever, not going to do it today. So stepping back from the edge, I don't think that's easy when people are new because they're keen, they're really eager. They've got almost something to prove of like I want to feel like I'm good at this sport, Therefore, I need to get in the air as much as possible, and I'm going to take this risk, and and it's a terrible thing, but you
fly for long enough, you do see incidents and accidents, you know? It's and it's a terrible thing because it saddens everyone, even if it's even if it's just a, you know, a bad landing and a sprained ankle, and that's that's a great outcome, I know. I mean, in the nicest way possible, you
know you
Never want to see people get hurt, and sometimes that's really, especially you know, going back to instruction and mentoring, that's really hard to portray to somebody who's new that, no, just, just chill out. Like, you don't need to be flying in these conditions; it's beyond your pay grade, and and you know, there's, there's going to be another day that is flyable in the future. I'll guarantee you that the mountains will still be here. Just, just relax, and and I think everyone does come to that, that conclusion eventually. But um, no one wants to see incidents and accidents, and unfortunately, it does happen. And especially when you think that was totally unavoidable, that's, that's really disheartening, and you know, that hurts my soul to see people do silly, silly stuff purely
on a, I need to prove myself, or I need to, you know, fly in these conditions, because this is my only day off this week and those sorts of things. And yeah, that's yeah, trying
to trying to make what does will he has a saying for this? Trying to make the day fit your fit your desires, your desires, yeah, instead of the other way around. You know, just you know, that's it's it. If it's not what you think it is, just go swimming.
Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, yeah, something safer. Yeah, yeah.
You're gonna be fine if you just go swimming. Uh, well, let's end this on some kind of fun ones here: best and worst wing.
best and worst wing... um, best wing look... um, I'm flying the X1 at the moment and it is beautiful. Um, yeah, it is a beautiful wing. Um, I've been flying... I've only ever flown, well, as my own gliders, Gin and Nibble Crilly... um, uh, flew the the Boom for a couple of years there. And and although I did like it, as soon as I went went from the Burn to the Leopard, then to the X1, the X1 was just like, oh, this is such good performance but without the workload. So that that was really nice. I guess the wing that, as I was going through my progression, that that I absolutely fell in love with was the Arctic 2. Um, that was the
Arctic 2, yeah, strung
a chord with me at the time, I loved it. I've still got in the shed there; I just can't, I can't get rid of it.
Worst wing? Oh, that's a tough one. Yeah, look, I'd say the worst wing is not something that I've flown a lot, but it's probably, I don't know if you want to publish this, Gav. It's all right. We don't
have any
sponsors. It's good. Yeah, good. I really dislike Nova wings.
Yeah, and not that they're bad wings. I just find them very lifeless. I find them very boring. Um, um, just, you know, I like a glider that has a bit of pitch and roll and tells me something, and I find Nova wings, as I said, I not that I've flown them in great quantities, every time I fly them I'm just like, "That's pretty boring." So, um, that in saying that, I'm sure there is a market for people that just want a really quite boring wing. So, you know, it's, it's a subjective answer. So, yeah, I'm not, not poopooing Nova, it just doesn't work for me. So, sure,
It's a subjective question, actually. You know, one one's person's porridge, we all love and hate different things. I mean, there's been there's been some niviac wings along the way that, you know, that other people couldn't stand, you didn't like. Yeah, yeah, it's
Really interesting. It's funny that in it, yeah.
It's super funny. What's your favorite piece of equipment? It could be anything—your goggles—but it could even be something you don't even fly with, I guess. But what's your favorite, you know, the thing that you just, "Oh, this makes my flying so much better"? I
think we've got to just say a fly master, ah
Really, yeah. See, there we go. I don't—I hate the Flymaster, yeah. We have—we have to use them for the, uh, for the X-Alps, and they do a good job with live tracking and stuff, but yeah, I don't—I've never liked that device. Yeah, it's interesting, yeah.
Okay, um, I like it because it's reliable. Like, I've had my Fly Master for 10 years. I had one of of the the Navs, the first Navs that came came out after the after the B1 versions, and it's my go-to. I know the sound, I know how it works, it's reliable as anything. Had it for 12 years, still works.
That's like my flight tech 60 30, I just can't give it up. That's ancient, I know. I love it, I still, I I still love it. But it's – and everybody that uses Flymaster loves them. It's just – it's never worked for me. Yeah. I think it's a great device. It's a great instrument.
The other thing I've been reading recently on forums is the XC Racer. Yeah. And people love the XV Tracer. To me, the XC Racer – no, I'm the opposite. Really? I cannot get in sync with its – I've actually – I'm about happy with it now. And I've dampened it on a scale of 0 to 10. I've dampened it to 8 to make it how I want it. Yeah, I know, really, that's a lot of dampening. Yeah, so I should send you my tone settings.
I, I, you know, you've probably heard about this, but it's, I send my tone settings every, and I did, they weren't mine. It was another, and I don't remember who it was. It was a world cup pilot, because I was having the same trouble when I took it out of the box. I just thought, "Whoa, what are you doing to me?" and I couldn't core for the light. I just couldn't find a core. I was so used to a more averager, you know, and uh, uh, I couldn't make it work. And, um, you know, there are people like I had Alex Roby on the show and he uses both. He'll use, you know, a fly master and the XC Racer without a dampened, and he can kind of tune his ear, I guess, to both, but that doesn't sound that simple to me. I like things simple. So, but this, uh, yeah, I have tone settings for the XC Racer that I've given out to at this point, hundreds of people. And it's really nice. It, it, it, they were, they were actually built to kind of match.
It's actually built to match the flight, the flight I'd take 60 30, but that's the same as the fly master, yeah.
Okay, very. Yeah, I'd be very interested in that, but it's not that
much dampening. I have mine at two and a half, but it's, yeah, but I think it's more of that in combination with the other tone settings, I think, yeah.
I think it's a whole package, then it needs to go together. Yeah, no, I'm more than happy to try it and test it. That's—that's good. I'll
Send them to you, buddy. Thanks, Molly. It's great to, uh, great to converse with you and have a chat. It's been too long. I hope it's not gonna be that much longer. I've got a couple clients down there in Oz, and they're talking about, I don't think wherever you get out of here till 2023. I hope it lightens up for you guys and you get to travel. We all get to travel again. Start racing...
very closed door down here at the moment. And yeah, it's been—I know, I know, the the cats that usually go racing overseas every year, every couple years, we are itching. We are seriously itching. I
...am sure you are what...
Do you do, yeah? Is your
local comp scene been pretty good. Has that been okay, or has that been kind of yeah, yeah
It, I'll look again. So, uh, yes and no. So, um, last year we had to downgrade one from a nationals to a essentially a state level, um, and that lost a few people because of that. But, um, in the trend over the last three to four years is, is people want to race and people want to get out there and do that. Um, yeah, which, which is good for, you know, I feel like a lot of people in Australia have an anti-competition sentiment, so, um, but you know, in, in recent years, I think that's being adored a bit and people want to get out there and, and try something different and go racing. And there's a lot of new pilots coming onto our racing scene, which is good. Um, we don't want to look like Dad's Army, um, a lot of old blokes kicking around, right?
Yeah, you know, Dad's Army, don't you? Yep, I'm one of them.
They're not my words, Gab. They're not my words.
Well, I, I'm, uh, yeah, it's like to race with you again at some point here. I'm sure it'll happen, and happy to follow the squad down there and learn from you guys. And thanks for sharing all this, man. I appreciate it. Thanks.
For having me on, I feel blessed. I feel like there's a lot of big names that I've been listening to a lot of podcasts over a long time, and I feel very humbled that, hey, you asked me to be on it. Thanks, mate. Good.
Excuse to reach out, and you've got a really keen community down there, and we've got a ton of listeners in Australia, really is. So, yeah, I've heard
That really, yeah, it'll
Be really psyched to hear your voice. Well, thanks, buddy. I appreciate it.
No worries, God, there is fire if
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