147. Special Red Bull X-Alps Podcast - Salewa athletes

Hi there everybody, welcome to another episode of Cloudbase Mayhem and a real special one for you today as we just had the prologue here at the X-Alps and the main race kicks off Sunday. I thought it'd be really fun to sit down with my teammates at Salava and do little short snippets on a whole bunch of different topics, how they're feeling, their prep, how they take care of their body during the race, and good story stuff that, you know, stuff that happens when they're exhausted, stuff from the past races. And so you're going to hear from Paul Guschlbauer, this is his sixth race, and of course he broke his foot skiing back in April, but he charged hard today and he's feeling pretty good.

You're going to hear from Aaron Durogati, 2013 was his first, so this is his fifth, and of course he destroyed his knee in 2017. And I think he was second to the top today, and then had a pretty wild ride through the prologue, but man, he's fast on the ground. And then you're going to hear from Marcus Anders, this is his second, he had a really good race in 2019, until he got hurt kind of late in that race. And then the great, of course, Chrigel Maurer, and his thoughts on going into his seventh with Thomas Therrillo, who's our supporter for the first four, and a whole bunch of great stuff there with the Eagle. And then Simon Oberrauner, who lives right here in Austria, and this will be his third race. And then Tommy Friedrich, the youngest ever in the X-Alps, and got third today in the prologue.

So obviously one to watch, really strong, comes from the school who taught Simon Oberrauner and Paul Guschlbauer. I think when Paul competed in his first, and he was pretty young back at the time, Tommy was just nine years old. So this was a blast, we had a lot of fun this afternoon putting this together for you. I thought it'd be really fun to drop this right before the race. So enjoy this talk with a whole bunch of the Saliva team, Saliva team, X-Alps athletes. Didn't interview me, I'm also on the Saliva team, but there's plenty here to digest and enjoy. And yeah, the race is Sunday, hope you're all watching, enjoy.

Paul, nice racing with you today after, it's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while, good to see you. Good to see you. You had an injury. It's been a while back and this is, you know, people know about this, but how do you, how do you feel? How was your leg?

Yeah, I had really super mixed feeling coming to this race. When I broke it pretty much exactly three months ago, I thought, okay, that's it. That's my season. That's, I never, I never broke a bone before. Right. So I was like, okay, this is over. But I did everything I could for recovery. Of course, everything I can is like a different thing. And it's like interesting to say that because you can't do anything the first week. So you got a cast and I was just sitting around, but then after that, I got, I started moving pretty fast again, a little bit faster than the doctors recommended, but it was like just on the edge of too much and not too early and too late or not too late, but in time.

And so, yeah, it worked out. It's, it's now in normal day to day life. It's painful. It's pain-free and, uh, on the climb today, it was first time since four months that I pushed a little bit or three months that I pushed a little bit harder and, uh, it was, it was okay. It's, um, it's still, still okay. I'm looking at it now and, and it's not swollen really a little bit compared to the other side, but. When

we ran into each other the other day, I hadn't seen you in a while. And you said that you seem to be in a really good headspace for this race. You said, Hey, there's this time, there's no pressure. I don't care. You know, if it, if, uh, I think I can get to the Geisberg and we see after that, but if it, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. That's maybe, maybe that's kind of a nice place to be.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely a good, good time. I'm having a good time. That's, that's true. I like my glider. I like flying. I like being outside and doing what I, what I love. So this is the race is what I love. And, and then, um, of course today when the prologue started, I was like, okay, that's racing again. Yeah. I'm full on. Yes. And then, and then obviously, um, um, I missed it. Uh, the first time also I wasn't in the front, like, and, and that's right away was like, okay, I could have done better. And although I could be only happy, I could be only here and be happy to, to be in the position I came in and that I'm here at all.

When you first had the accident and there was the, oh man, I may not be able to do this. What was that like? Cause you know, I told you I had a pretty bad crash two and a half weeks ago. And the first thing that went through my head was, oh, there's no way I'm not going to be ready for this. And

I was like, okay, I'm not going to be ready for this.

And it was kind of a strange sensation. On one hand. I just thought, well, who cares? I I'm alive and you know, I'm okay. I'll, you know, recover from this, but was there a, was it, it was that kind of hard? Yeah. When I remember the situation

right now, I can remember it pretty clear and I knew that I was falling down. I was like thinking, does it hurt? Does it hurt? Yeah. It hurts. It hurts. Um, that would be really bad if it's broken, that would mess up my whole thing. And what, what am I going to do? And I said,

I don't know. I

still have those thoughts in my head and, and honestly, I was never thinking of not doing the race. I was always like, okay, it's still three months. Somehow it will work. I mean, my body always heals fast. Great.

It's going to work. It's going to work. You're still young. Yeah. Well, I'm also getting older.

There are super young guys around here that are performing really well. So the pressure is rising for the old

guys. Well, we're going to, we're going to talk later on to Thomas and Simon. And we were laughing. We

were laughing

on the way up to the photo shoot the other day that their combined age is my age. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was at the Red Bull XF's

first time. He was nine years old.

Oh my

God. And

I was young when I did my first race. Yeah,

you were

young. Yeah. Oh my God. That's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, so, um, you had, you had the injury, but I wanted to, one of the questions I wanted to ask you was just how, how did you change your preparation this year? I mean, obviously with the injury, you just had to work around that. But, um. I know you were working with Thomas, Thomas Thurlow, um, as I have been as well, but is this your sixth? Sixth time in the race. Yeah. Just wondering if, you know, from the last one, 2019, if there was a big, okay, this is something I'm going to do differently in anything physical, emotional. Well,

there have been so many things that changed. Like I got a kid now. So I had, I had to deal with that as well in general life. It gets just like life changes when you get older, like I'm getting like growing up a little bit. Um, so of course things changed and what changed, uh, mostly for me or what, what, um, yeah, the general feeling that I have is like, things have to be becoming more professional, like more focused. Okay. Everything I do, I need to, to set a time for it and do it and then do the other things. And then like be more organized because there's just too many things I'm doing right now. Just a lot. Um, just a lot. So, so, so I was actually, after the last race, I was thinking to be really focused on it.

Like to, to, to set goals, like to go to the training and do that and that and that. I never done it before. I was always training. Like I was feeling like, okay, it's a nice day and go outside. I was always training a lot. I'm not saying I'm not training a lot. But now, um, now it's

a lot.

I was just thinking, okay, I'm going to, I want to do more things. I want to take care of my kid. I want to do a film production. I just got a first television show that I produced myself. So I'm kind of proud of it. Yeah. That was really cool. And also a lot of work. And I knew that everything is possible to, to do it, but you need to be really structured, like well organized. And, and that's, that was what I did. And I think I, I did really well. I had a very good preparation in the beginning. Like the whole, whole first, or I don't know. I think it was the first or second half or, um, yeah, second half of 2020, I was already really focusing on the race and everything went really, really well. I did more, um, like force, like with weights, I've never done that before.

And I've done like really, um, planned endurance training and stuff like that. And then somehow I thought, okay, this is maybe, maybe, maybe something wants to tell me that this is not yours. Cause I used

to drive it.

Yeah, no. At first I had Corona for three weeks and I got it pretty bad. So it was like out for of training for more than three weeks. And I fought okay. That's it now. Okay, this is the break I needed. Now I'm going to focus. Did Magdalena get it too? Yeah. The whole family, even George, the little guy. Oh no. Really? It was really scary. Yeah. But, but it, I mean, Magdalena had it like three days and I had it three weeks. So it was a difference then. Anyway, after that I thought, okay, now. Now is the time to really focus now. Now I'm going for it. And it took like three or four weeks after that where it was really good training, like perfect. Everything was running perfectly. And then just on a small little afternoon training where I was already thinking, maybe I shouldn't go train anymore because I'm tired, blah, blah, blah.

Weather was bad. I broke my foot then. So

it was like... It's always the last round of the day.

Yeah, what's going on? Why do I try to do it really well? And then it comes totally different. So this was definitely different.

Have you found, since having George, and because I had Fallon for years, have you found your approach to flying, has that changed anything? Has it changed your risk, your ability to push? No,

it hasn't. I was always trying to be safe all my life. I was really trying to avoid... situations that are out of control. And so I'm still in the same kind of feeling when I fly. Sometimes it happens to me that I think about George, for example, when I fly, which usually doesn't happen because I'm very focused as soon as I launch. But it doesn't make a big difference. It actually makes me happy that I can show him that there is other jobs than sitting in an office all the time. And so I...

I just do

it and it's part of the game that there's a risk compared to other things. Sure.

Have you ever experienced bad pain in any of the races? Anything that's really stopped you or slowed you down? Because you haven't, you've never had to fold. I don't believe, right? You've always gone. Yeah.

I mean, that was, I think this is my biggest advantage that I have. Like this, my body's really stable. I hardly get blisters.

Small ones, but I never, never had big problems with that. Do you have to do anything

special to take care of your feet? I

use a, it's like a Vaseline cream. Like a glide or something. Like a cream. And I, whenever I feel like there's an itching spot, I put it on. Yeah. And this works for me.

Just the, so it's like a lubricant.

Yeah. It's like a lubricant, but it's called, that was, who was that? One of the... It accepts athletes in 2011, forgot his name. He's also writing in the XC magazine. Hansa. Hansa. Yeah. He was super cool. He came to me before the start and he's like, here, this cream, this is called brave soldier. Brave soldier. And he gave it to me and I used it since then every race and it works perfectly. I don't get any blisters. I mean, it could be the shoes, the combination of shoes and cream, of course, Salewa shoes fit really well. Do you use the,

do you use the kind of lower drop, like the ultra trains or do you use the, the drop lines, like a lot of cushion? A little cushion.

A little one. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of the high, high shoes. I feel unstable with it a little bit. So I prefer the low ones. And also I try to not hike on the, on the, on the flat anyway, my strategy was, was always, and will always be to hike up straight. Yeah. I like up straight. Yeah. I need to

get better at that. Last question, three most critical pieces of gear when you think about the race, what are the things that, and this could be technology. I mean, obviously we can't do it without the wing, but the, you know, what are the, what are the three things that, man, I gotta have this in my bag or that, that just, this has to work, right?

Yeah. I mean, right now, when you ask this question, I can think of like 10 things. All of it, pretty much everything we carry. Yeah. I mean, it's basically everything. We carry makes sense. It's not that we carry things that don't make sense that we have to say that. Um, but, uh, but of course, I mean, everything that makes this kind of racing possible is what we need. It's the shoes to run. I mean, we can walk half naked. It would be fun to do it naked, actually, but, but I would always wear shoes, but I would always wear shoes because then I can walk longer, but any other thing that you don't really need it. Um, and then of course, backpack with you. Yeah.

I mean, the only thing for me that I can really use is, like, the thermals, like the Swift

glider, whatever, like all this stuff and the better and lighter it is, the cooler it is. And then something, I mean, I mean, this is really like that thing to get anywhere nowadays is just your smartphone. Yeah, everything is on there. Everything. It's incredible what you can do with it. Yeah. If I think of 2011 or even 13. One of those races. We were like, I was always carrying a paper map and I was always having a hard time imagining how the mountain looks. And now I look on Google Earth or whatever FATMAP program, and I just can see it and I see the trail and I know exactly how it looks like. So it's really great.

You mentioned FATMAP. What do you use for mapping? We love FATMAP, it's great. I love the slope angles. Yeah,

so FATMAP is definitely there. But for planning, I use the Suunto app in combination with the watch. This is great. It works perfectly. You can just mark a trail. So you have the navigation

in your watch?

Yeah, and then you just hit the button to share it with your watch and right away you have got the track on the phone, on your watch. So it's super easy. I use it all the time.

So you're not going on your

phone, you're just going through this. For every day I go outside and train, if I want to, even if I'm in an area that I know really well. I look at the phone first for two minutes and do whatever I want to do. I plan it, got it on my watch and I go for it because as a backup, because suddenly you miss a turn, you're not sure, you don't have to take your phone out, you just want to look at the watch.

Okay, you'll have to get me up to speed on that.

Yeah, and you have in the big, I have to mention that I know we're already talking for a long time, but you have all these routes in there that people hike a lot. So it's like it collects the data. So it's all open source. Yeah. Open source, so it has all the used trails in there, not only the trails, so you can see what people use, which is actually the ones that you want to use and not the ones that are getting overgrown or something. Okay, you'll have to show me some of that stuff because

I just got the suit today, so we'll figure that out. Paul, thanks and best of luck in the race. Of course, I'm excited to be back here with you to do it again and I can't wait to see Magdalena and George and thanks, man. Appreciate it. Yeah,

it's really cool to do it in person. It is. Finally. We've done that. Yes, finally. Finally. Thanks. Thanks,

bud.

Aaron, fun racing with you today. You had a little bit of an epic.

Yeah, it was basically everything which could go wrong, it went.

Good to get that out of the way now. It's good to get that out of the way now in the prologue.

Yeah, in a way, yes. But to see the positive things of today's race, it was that since very long I was not doing a kind of vertical race because for me, the first hike up, it was like a running competition, which in the end it was, And I had really fun, and my knee was good, and I came up there a second, and I felt really strong, and I was happy to be second because I want to have Maxim in front of me to take off. So everything was really, really nice. And yeah, the bad thing starts once. I took off because normally this was for me like the easy part because it's like a normal paragliding competition where I used to be normally good.

Yeah. But there I really, I mean, it probably was a mix of today. I can say a bit unluck because I took off and Maxim was terminating on a weak thermal. So for me, it was clear. Okay. It's work. It works. Yeah. So I took off. Yeah. And nothing, it was nothing for me. So Chrigel and the two other guys, which took off a minute after me or something like that, they got this weak thermal and me was the one not getting. Just a bad timing. So basically I landed a hundred meter or 150 meter below the takeoff. Then I hike up again. I took off again.

Then I catch the thermal. I was in a little gaggle. I was in a little gaggle with you and there I was flying quite good when you left with Nicola. For me, I was climbing in a good, I had like two and a half meter. I was not thinking it was good to go. That's why I wasn't good to

go. Yeah. That was, that was a bad note to go. That was stupid.

Yeah. Well, it's stupid. You can't say, but the point was above us was building the cloud and I saw it and where you was going, it wasn't cloud. No clouds. So for me it was. A good idea to make maximum altitude as long it keep two meter and as long, uh, when it becomes less than two, I started and then it was a bit below the cloud I had. So when I arrived on the other side, I was higher than you. I could control you and, but then it happened the next bad thing. So I did a turn point because in my eyes I did it. But actually when I was going to the goal and I was five kilometer, four kilometer on 2000, something meter, they told me that you don't, I don't have done the, the second turn point.

Right. So then I fly back to the second, I fly back to the third and then I fly in the goal. So basically I did the prologue twice. It's just good practice, Aaron. It's good.

These 50 meter cylinders have got to stop. My God. We'd say that every year to Christoph. And

anyway, I mean, uh, three meters, they say it's. It's out. Really? Yeah. Oh man. That's quite, uh, that's

pretty tight. Yeah. Whatever. It's just a prologue. It doesn't matter. It's, it's, it's the warmup. Um, Aaron, I wanted to ask you, you and I have this habit of spending some time together early on in the race in 2015, you and I were at Ashow and we walked down off the top with some others and, uh, we had a nice little flight across the end Valley. I don't know if you remember that you've done so many races, but you and I both had a lot of foot problems in 2015. I remember you, there was a video of you like ripping the bottom of your feet off at one point. It was hot. Remember those first three days of the race were really hot and, and just humid. And I'm wondering if there's, if you, from that experience, how do you take care of your feet now? Cause I know it takes people out of the race every time blisters.

I have really bad feet. I really struggled with blisters and I know some people just don't.

Well, I, um, try. Many, many, many things, uh, in the last years and especially in the last two years, not only because of the exiles, but in general, because I mean, I'm, I like to be in the mountain and I spend a lot of time, uh, I have some complicated, um, feet because, uh, I was ski racing and, uh, till, till I was 18 and I have, uh, uh, on the behind part of the, the feet, like an over bone. So it's like, yeah. I mean, who was skiing with, uh, lunch, uh, the ski boots knows what I'm talking about.

So because of these, um, uh, I, I get always some problem and I have really to work, uh, to find solution. And in, in the end, the. The bad. Best, uh, option I find because I try, of course the compete, uh, uh, blister free, um, how they call this to patches. Yeah. Yeah. And those are not bad, but the problem is if you get trouble below them, you can't take it off because when you take it off, you will really take off your skin. Yeah. So these, I find quite quickly out that it's not such a good solution. At least. For me.

So then I was, uh, trying with, uh, many different kinds of cream, but basically fat creams, which works, but still not the best for me because, uh, once you have a cream, it's fat and you will sweat and you will have more humidity. So what I do, if you, you will see in the race for me, if we've meet, I have, um, Boro talco, this white powder. Yeah. And I use. These every hour I put these because it's a lubrificant. So wait, you, you take your shoes and socks

off and put it on your feet every hour.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's quite easy. I opened the sock and I put it in. I have like, uh, uh, it's like a talcum powder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And

so that keeps your feet dry.

Exactly. But at the same time, it's a lubrificant. Okay. Actually in the bike race on dry, they use it on the chain. Okay. It's a, I've heard about this. It does like. Yeah. Uh, it does like a vaseline cream, but it's dry and that's for me the best solution. And of course, if I can, every one and a half hour doing this, then I'm going without problem. And this is one part, the other part, what I do on shoes, I work on shoes, us on the ski boots shoes. So I warm with the guys who does it professionally. I warm the shoes, like the ski boots. And I make always the mark, the places I have trouble.

And then we, uh, um, press, press it out. So exactly like the same you do for ski boots. Sure. I do in each of the shoes I use. And, uh, there are shoes which goes better other, which, uh, after, uh, 10, 20 trainings goes back, but then you can do it again. So. Yeah. The combination of all those things give me now quite good result. How many shoes do you have for the race? Uh, yeah, I have many. Yeah. I have really many. I think, uh, I mean, my main shoes are 15 plus I have, uh, another 10 shoes, so it's 25 shoes.

Yeah. I tell people this and they go, wait, what? And yeah, that's what you need.

Yeah. Well, so you're switching them out constantly. You're constantly switching them out. Yeah. It depends really. On the hike. If I, if I hike steep, if I hike in the flat on which speed, basically with my knee, I don't plan to run at all, but it's a big difference if you go in the flat and you walk and you hike, I use, uh, you, uh, walk or you run. So I use different shoes for six, seven kilometer an hour or 10 kilometer in hours. And are you,

those shoes you got. They're really thin. Are you going, is that, are you, do you go in with kind of no padding or very little padding with all your shoes and like a no drop shoe or do you have, I

have four vertical, so like steep stuff I use, uh, not, uh, cushioning shoes or very little and, uh, for walking in the flat, like six to seven case in hour, I also don't use much, um, cushioning and if I will have to run, then I use cushioning.

Oh, okay. So,

because the point. Is when you have, uh, when you walk and, uh, and you have your backpack, what happened if you have a very cushioning shoes, like a Hawker, for example, or a Nike, um, your feet, it's also going down in the shoes because it's cushioning. And then you will have maybe one or two millimeter moving your feet into the shoes, which can, uh, at least for, with my problem here behind it can. Make this inflammation. If the shoes it's harder, then it stay, your feet stay always on the same level and you don't have this problem. And then you have to find the balance with the knee and the joint. So a little bit cushioning, but not too much.

So, uh, and also like the, the stability of your ankle, the more, uh, cushioning shoes you have, the less unstable, the less stable they are normally. So, yeah. It's I, I really tested, um, I have this big luck that I can test those things on the Red Bull training center. And I test many shoes on the, on the, how it calls this, where you walk the track. Yeah. And then we, oh, the treadmill. Yeah. The treadmill and there you can measure, um, how long stay your feet on the, on the ground, how it's the, uh, the rolling.

If it's going inside, outside, and you can find out which shoes fit the best for you. And it's something very, uh, I mean the shoes, which is good for me might be bad for you. So I think, um, to find the optimum, it's just trying and be really open, uh, mind and really try different things. Like what I use also very, uh, quite a lot. It's, uh. Five fingers concept. So like

the toe socks.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, because they're awesome because these make a much stronger, your feet, you get more stability. Oh,

you're talking about the shoes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The toe socks. You are not sure that's what they're called, but yeah. So there's no padding on those. No, it's

just the little, uh, um, V Bram stuff below and you have the finger, the five fingers split it. And, uh, it. It gives you a lot of, um, strengths in the feet. It's they, they recommend you to use it as a training instrument. So, uh, you don't take them and you go for a 10 case. Yeah. You go for, uh, 20 minutes, one hour, one and a half and little by little, your fear kept use, but it was very interesting. This story to tell you that when I have my very bad time on the knee, um, I was using. In my head was, okay, I have knee pain. I should use big cushioning shoes to reduce the impact and interesting wise, I start to use the, the five finger.

So Bart foot shoes, basically, and I had less pain. So I was going on the Hawker shoes and having pain and taking a shoes with zero, nothing below my feet. And I was not having pain. And the reason why is that when you walk on a shoes, which. Doesn't have any cushioning, you will put your front feet first and the amortization start from your feet and then you will never put your, uh, how it called this bone. Yeah. The heel bone, the heel strong on the ground, because you know that you don't have nothing below you, but if you have three centimeter of, uh, uh, Sean, uh, infinity react, whatever, you, you, you go on your heel.

And this. This create actually more impact than if you, if you walk, like the, the, the human was built to walk.

Yeah. Right. So born to run that, that whole, that whole concept and that whole book, that's been kind of the rage for, for a while now. But yeah, you sound like there's a book I just read that was 600 pages about how to take care of your feet. And it was interesting because it just said over and over and over again, that every single person is different. And every. Race is different. You could get something that really works really well in one race and the next race, it doesn't work at all because of humidity, heat, whatever. Yeah. I mean, I hear a very

nice sentence from a very experienced guy who developed the ski shoes from Technica and, uh, he say like you have a hundred people and you have 200 different feet. And if you think about it, it's really

true. That's true. That's true. Yeah. Each, each one's a little bit different size. And yeah, that's crazy. I wasn't planning on asking you this, but it, it occurred to me today watching you go up that mountain again, you're insanely fast up mountains. Um, can you give, I know your training program is huge, but can you give a condensed version of how, how do you approach, you know, when do you start training for the X-Alps and how do you get the speed that you end up with now? When it comes to the prologue and it comes to Sunday, how do you. Peak, how do you get to the point where, because you are really fast going up mountains and you, you have to do that, especially with your knee. Now, I think the last time when we did this, we had the last show, you said in the last race, you walked like 19 miles or something on pavement or 19 K on pavement, the whole race.

Uh, no, it was less. It was, uh, 60.

Really? Yeah. Jeez. It's amazing. So how do you, how do you train for the vertical?

Well, that's, uh, something I really. Like to do, I really like steep and, uh, when I was doing also ski touring race, I really like the steep race. So for me, it's, uh, you know, like you have like a body, which, uh, maybe easily muscle and I have a body which works quite good on, on steep. I think this is something I just have it. Yeah. And, um, I mean. How you train for. The X-Alps it's a, it's a question I can't answer because, um, it's not, I never start a specific training for the X-Alps my whole life. It's a training for the X-Alps in a way.

And, uh, I can tell you like during the winter, I do more like the endurance things with the projects and with the things I'm doing. So I'm out in the mountain on the ski for six, seven, eight hours and ski

touring, ice climbing. Yeah. And

then when, when it comes to April, uh, let's say end of March, beginning of April, it's the, the, this, uh, uh, transfer time where I still go a bit skiing, but I also put the shoes on and as soon as I put the shoes on, because also I really like it. I go for vertical, uh, training and, uh, yeah. But it's not like maybe. You think I have, uh, a program, I have to do this, this, this every day. So these are more into the, the, the power training on the power training. I have, uh, I have my plan and I do five to four to five, uh, um, training a week, uh, lifting weight.

And do you, do you have a specific trainer or I know you have the Red Bull X-Alps training center, uh, which we all go. We get tested. That was an awesome facility, but do you also work with a trainer too?

Yeah, I, uh, I have basically on the training center of Red Bull, there is a trainer which follow me and many other athletes too. And in Marano, I have, uh, in my hometown, I have a trainer which is working with me. And, uh, as you know, with my knee problems, um, I was really not thinking I, I can get again, good, I was having some really. Really bad, bad time. So really, um, where I was thinking, ah, that's maybe over, you know, like over in, in sense of everything, like going skiing, going like one and a half years ago, I couldn't push the speed bar. So I had, uh, Christian Biazzi from Woody Valley build me a speed bar with five steps because I push it on the left one, on the good one.

And I hold. On the right one, I push it on the left, holding on the right one. So for each step I have to, so at that time I was thinking, maybe it doesn't look, it doesn't look good. They all think, but, uh, of course I was lucky that I lucky. And at the same time, I didn't give up. And, uh, then it comes the idea from one of the doctor to say, okay, Aaron, we try already many things. Now we try to be. We try to build up muscle, even if you go in pain in the training, we have to build up muscle and I work really hard on the basic. So squat, uh, pistol, squat, leg, press, uh, lecker, uh, all the behind, uh, uh, chain getting your structure back together.

And for example, this muscle, the, the vasto medialis, I almost didn't have it anymore. Yeah. I doesn't look, I do a lot of weight. Yeah. Because I'm still kind of skinny, but I, like I say, I do four to five training a week in the gym. And also watching your video, it was cool because basically, uh, you, you do quite similar as I do and just on you, you see the result and on me, I see the result by, by, by not having pain, but not by looking stronger.

I mean, that's how Ben solved my, I have, you know, I've had. I

have nine

knee surgeries. I had, you and I have the same background with ski racing and everything. And when I first started thinking about the ex-alps, he'd seen me ski. He knew I didn't have stability problems, but I had, I'd had pain, really bad pain for 20 years. It was hard for me to walk off a curb. And I just thought there's no chance. And he said, no, no strength training. We can, we can. And since the 2015 race, I haven't had any knee pain. It's amazing. Well, for me, you had a lot of different, but it was like, I was

from a scale from zero to 10. Yeah. I was a long period on five to six and still now I, I, I write it every day. How much is my pain? And it's, uh, from zero to one, it's always, you know, I, I, I, but that's not a pain. You feel it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's there. Yeah. Right. But in a way it's maybe also good because it's, um, I know it's there, but it's not a pain. And so. If I can't. If I can't get into the idea, running a hundred kilometer on the asphalt, this thing, remember me, you know, it's not a good idea and I just don't do it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Aaron, you told a really funny story. The last time I had you on the show after the 2019 race where to stay awake between St. Hilaire, kind of through the La Grave area, you started watching YouTube videos. I was cracking up the other day as Tom, the door loader and I were having fun, a really fun chat about the tired times. You know, when you're just exhausted. In the race, the funny things that happen, you, you see things and you talk to people that aren't there. Do you have another one like that, that you remember from one of the races?

Yeah, definitely. In 2013, my first X-Alps, um, I put the night bus, uh, in Swiss and I was really walking through the all night and it, it, there are a couple of funny story. So first during the night bus, I'm walking basically on, on a bus. I think the Alpenpass. And I start to see some light, maybe down in the valley, 200 meters, some fire, like, um, and this, this fire was moving and, and I was walking alone at the time I did every day, all X-Alps alone. I didn't have a supporter, which was working with me. So it was, I don't know, one o'clock and I start to think, what the fuck it has to be some satan, satan crew, you know?

And I get really scared, I'm thinking, what these guys, they have to be some satanic group in my eyes. How do I get through?

So even though that was really tired and, and really on the end, I start to run.

And it was nothing?

I don't know. I run.

And I even didn't turn myself. I just run as long as I can. And then like, when I was really not able to run anymore, I turn myself and I look behind and I didn't see this light anymore. And I say, oh, good.

There

was probably never anything there. Yeah.

And then basically, uh, the next day, actually. I. I fly very good. I went interlocking and, and I didn't fall asleep, even though I was really tired. But the day after I took off from the Leschenpass and I had to fly to the Matterhorn and the next turn point was Saint-Hilaire. And I remember really well, I was really tired. And when I was crossing Verbier, I was really falling asleep, but I was at the same time, not falling asleep because I was concentrated to find the way. And so I'm flying, flying and thinking about the thermal, but tired. And then when I hit the thermal and I was like 50 meters next to the rock, I fell asleep.

Perfect timing.

I'm failing asleep in a strong thermal 50 meters next to the cliff. You know,

it's crazy. I can't believe we do this. It's crazy. Yeah. Aaron, thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and see you and have you on the show, of course. And I wish you all the best in the race and glad your knees feeling better. And, uh, can't wait to see you out there, buddy.

Yeah. Nice. Thank you very much, Kevin.

Thanks buddy.

Markus, thanks for coming down and doing a little show for us here. I haven't had you on the podcast before, so I've been looking forward to talking to you, but congratulations on the prologue today. How'd it go for you?

Yeah, the prologue was super nice actually. Um, it's, uh, the, the, the excepts mood came, came up a little bit to, to get ready for the race, to race across the ups. And, uh, it's sometimes it's kind of, to be honest, kind of annoying with all the organizational stuff, um, the gear check, glider check, uh, shootings and so on. It's a long week. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, I'm really looking forward to the race and prologue was just fun. I can up flying around with, with all. All the other excepts at leads and then seeing some, some helicopters flying around, filming this stuff.

This was the first one we've had, uh, flying since 2015, you know, 2017 was the rainy, terrible one. And then last year, you know, we, it was windy. So that was nice. It was nice to be able to fly again on the prologue. It was a fun, fast course. Last time in the, you were a rookie in the last one, 2019, uh, you were ripping with, uh, the kind of top 10 there. We were, you and I were together going into day eight and I had a terrible day and you made a really nice run down to kind of the little grove area and stuff. And then something happened that you're kind of last 18 hours or 24 hours or maybe more. Um, what happened? I, I never got to ask you about that.

Yeah. Um, well at, at the beginning we made some rookie mistakes, like pretty much every rookie is doing and everybody is telling, don't do this rookie mistake. We, we did not, uh, uh, we, we couldn't find our flow and, uh, then we messed it up at one takeoff and then it was just fine. And we were flying. And at one point we were around the top 10 place and whoa, crazy. I think I pushed a little bit too hard in the beginning of the race. And, um, after like eight, nine, 10 days, you really feel the tiredness and you're exhausted. And I, I met the, uh, uh, mistake while flying to Priya. So I, I did not really know that this area is quite stable and I got below an inversion layer.

And, um, I, I tried to break through like three times and on the same place, same time, I just could fly out, fly the inversion. And then I decided to top land, top landing was fine. Um, and the plan was just easy hike up through the inversion, take off again. Let's go. Um, and it was a great flying day. And while, while hiking up, I had really light shoes and I was checking my mobile phone, hiking up, uh, just straight, um, through some, some not, uh, not good, uh, terror to hike. And, uh, there was like a hole and I stepped into it and I hurt my ligament and it's, it got really thick and swollen.

And, um, you rolled your ankle. Yeah. Okay. Now like a sprain or something. And then we, we had like, uh, my team came to me and we had like a little bit of rest and cooling and stuff. And at this point around Montiviso, there was a thunderstorm developing. And for me, it was clear where I can fly just one time. Hiking is no option. And, uh, well, I decided to glide down into the valley before the thunderstorm, um, arrived at my place. And I said, well, if I land. I can't do anything. Just wait till the end and we called, uh, Christoph Weber, um, if we can cancel the race now. And then he said, yeah, well, if we do this, um, we, we throw out, um, because of injury.

And then we said, okay, well then we just drink coffee and wait.

Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. We'll just relax and heal.

It was kind of a sad end. Um, but yeah. Ah, you did well, man.

Yeah. You, you really did well. What, what, uh, you know, you said you made a lot of mistakes early. What are the things that you learn from that, that you're bringing to this race?

Yeah. Several times. It's that several things actually, um, the, the first mistake, we, we had a really good plan. But when, when, when you, when you go into the race and fly with, with Chrigel, Mara, Maxime, with, with you and all the legends and, uh, well, I'm, I'm not, uh, I'm flying for, well, now six years, but, uh, last exception was four years. And, um, it's kind of stupid. If you think you are smarter than the others and they go left and you go right.

But the, the, the point. The point was, um, I had before the race, I pushed too much. Um, I had some knee problems and, um, pushing in uneven terror was not the best idea. And Chrigel just said, well, he doesn't want to hike on the flats. So he goes this way and everyone was following him. And we actually had the plan to, to glide to Kuchel and Golling and just hike and would be much, much more efficient and, and better for my knee. Um, and then hike, uh, on, on steep terrain, no track. Um, and then it was like following the others to maybe get back to them.

And, um, we kind of missed one takeoff and I, I, I saw like 10, 15 gliders flying above me and I took off like three times. Topland again, because the, the, the. Right

here at St. Johan. Yeah.

Yeah. Day two. Yeah. And you passed me and you took off out of some bushes. And then I said, Hey, why don't we go up there?

I felt so bad for you that day. Cause I, you were ahead of me and you launched and then immediately landed down below. And I, and it was so hot that day too. I struggled up there though. With the

takeoff. Yeah. I blew my

whole bee cascade. I had to fly all the way to Aschau with no bees on one side. I yanked it out of the, I got so frustrated up there. I couldn't get off the hill. Yeah. Uh, but you had it worse. Uh, that's right. I forgot about that.

Yeah. But at the takeoff, I had to support who could help me out because I had like two tries and, and then it worked and I could jump, uh, uh, into the air. Um, well, and actually this was the best thing, which can happen because we were far away from the first group. There were some behind, but I just said, now we watch on, on ourselves. We look how we can proceed. And it turned out to be really good, just make the best out of the situation and we like four or five days, we ended up flying with, with Gaspar and Tom and you and Simon, uh, the gaggle between top, uh, uh, place, uh, rank five and, and 10 and, um, we,

we passed Montblanc and well, I, I told my supporters well on the valley cross. Yeah. And while it's light in, in soft terminals, uh, turning, I, I started to, to close my eyes to get some rest while flying. And, and then they said, okay, I almost fall asleep while, while eating. And then I said, okay, maybe let's, uh, take it more easy and, and, and, uh, rest two hours earlier. But I was saying, I was like, why just continue, keep the flow alive. And, um, from that point. We, we paused a little bit more and, um, I don't know, at this point, when, when I stopped the flow, it starts, it started to get really worse.

Um, I got more tired, more sleepy, uh, a little bit lack of motivation. And then, um, we started to, to push with the goal to reach Monaco, but we were like 300 kilometer away.

You got too far ahead of your mind. And if

you, if you're too far ahead, um, you, you lose the, the, the vision of, of your surrounding right at the moment. And this is important.

Yeah. You went, you went for the outcome goal instead of the process goal. And that's, that's one of the things that I try to keep relearning, especially in this race. You got to stay in the now, don't you? It's really, that's very, very important. Um, I've worked with Thomas a little bit on that, you know, Chrigel supporter that talking about, you know, you're going to make mistakes. When you make mistakes, it's the attitude is really important. You know, Oh, that was cool. I learned something from that rather than, fuck, I can't believe I just bombed out in the middle of the day. You know, you have to keep this kind of, like you said, flow. That was interesting. How will you utilize that this time? How, how will you, how will you try to stay more in flow?

Um, I, I analyzed all my competitions, um, in, uh, well, due to the pandemic, um, I, I couldn't, uh, participate in that much competitions, obviously, but we had the Dolomiti Superfly and I, I tested out something just pushing from, uh, from seven to, to, uh, 9 PM, um, all day because it's a much shorter race than the X-Ups. Sure. And, uh, the, the, the learning was if I push really hard and I focus just on going on, going straight, um, you, I, I lost the freedom of the flying and, uh, I, I kind of, I was good in the beginning, but then I, I, I didn't see other routes, which were obviously because out of the situation, much more efficient.

And, uh, but then I got stuck somewhere and. Interesting. Yeah. I, I, and then. So pushing too hard doesn't work. No. Yeah. And, um, for me, I can really keep in the flow when, when I'm, I'm pushing a little bit, but I'm more relaxed and have the time to look around, see if there are some birds, enjoy a little bit. Yeah. Um, and just feel good and do my my own stuff, yeah, if I have a plan. And sometimes plans are shittier

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But,

um, most of the situations when I had a really good competition, um, I, I just was walking on a really shitty day along the valley. And then I said, okay, maybe it opens a little bit and it started to open. And then I said, okay, let's go up. And if you look into the forecast, you don't see any flying window and then you go up. So a little bit in a valley. And then, and, uh, I think it's a better, um,

a little bit of a, it's a better competition.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and those are special. Yeah.

And that's,

that's super great. And that's for me, the, the most, uh, intense and best moments in hiking fly competitions, because you have to make the best out of it and you check the forecast and shitty days. You just see what happens. Yeah. And in most cases you make super special and cool flights. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a great segue. So last question is, what's the one thing, if you could pick one thing, that drove you to apply again this time? What was it when you thought, okay, July 1st, it's open, it's time to apply. What was the one thing that made, okay, I got to do it again?

I thought a lot about applying again. I think the most important fact was, for the first time, I did not really know what I will expect during the race, how long, two weeks. It's huge how to deal with the time and all that stuff. And at some points, we could really fly well and fly with the top pilots. And the end was kind of sad. And I focused too much on the sad end at the beginning. And I almost fell into some kind of depression because I was just focusing on the sad end.

But overall, it was just a cool experience and adventure with my team. And the thing why I wanted to compete again was, it's like an unfulfilled task. Yeah, unfinished story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't push for some ranking. I want to finish the task. I want to reach Monaco. Well, now it's Salam C. Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't make much of a difference. Sure. But, well, kind of, if you never reached Monaco, it's kind of a cool story to cross all the Alps to Monaco to the sea. Sure.

Marcus, thank you. That was great. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to racing with you again. And it's good to see you here again. And I wish you all the best.

Yeah. Thanks, Kevin, for the nice chat. Awesome. And let's have a great race. Let's

do it. Let's do it.

Chrigel, great to see you, race with you again, have you back on the show. And congratulations on the win today. That's a nice way to start the X-Alps.

Thank you, Kevin. Yeah, it was a pleasure. For me, it was a bit stressful day or I was really nervous again. Really? After such a long period without competition. So it felt good. And finally, I want really to keep calm race and to do it as controlled as possible. And finally, for me, it was possible. And I raced with Maxim in the front and it was a, it was a pleasure. And in the end, it was a small tactic difference and my glider works well finally. And so I was able to win with this, this Mordlind.

You mentioned, I saw an interview with you recently that you hadn't, you hadn't gotten your glider yet. So that's, you must've just gotten it. Yeah.

We had some problem or others had some problem with the new gliders and finally we decided to, to bring the old one. Oh, so I applied the last two years with the same wing. And for me, it's a comfortable situation because I know how it works and that it works. And finally, it's good. And the differences to the new wings are not big, but it's, it's more a mental thing because flying a new competition with the new glider, it's always more motivated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But for this, for this also the day or to win the day was, was very good because after I felt better and then to be sure that I have the right equipment and, and it should works anyway because it's a, it's an adventure racing and they're really not a really paralleling competition.

So the glide is not that important in the, in the last, um, performance than, uh, for example, a park in the world cup. Hmm.

Now I might be wrong here, but it seems to me, you know, my first year was 2015, uh, which was the first year that we had the prologue. I gather that you didn't take it very seriously then, but in the last couple, you've really gunned, you've really gone hard. Uh, I know you always physically train really hard, but how important is it to you?

Yeah, I, I really like to improve my body. So I did a serious training, uh, in the last 12 years. And I'm coming more old, the recovery time needs more time, but, but I'm, I'm still can improve a little bit, but, um, yeah, maybe it's not that important to be so fit as possible or, but it's more important to be, uh, really constant in, in, um, in walking on the street and, uh, to bring performance every day because it's, for me, it's a big difference to be in a short race very fast or to bring performance

every day.

For 17 and a half hours. So, and in the winter, I really pushed the small races for, for a quick time. And in spring, I started to do the long trainings that had to walk on the flat with my glider to be ready to bring performance every day and have a good recovery. Do

you have any trouble with your feet?

Yes, I had. Uh, and it's stupid because, uh, I, I thought I'm smart after 12 years. I'm training and do the competition and I was often overloaded. So I had some problems and I know that the recovery, it's always a long and hard time. And I really wanted not to destroy myself in this spring, but there was the wings for life version. Yeah. It was a really interesting and I did it last year too. And I was really motivated to, to compare to last year and I run with my boys. They follow me by bike. Oh,

cool. They

support me. And it was. A nice day and I was pushing and I felt good. I not felt every, any problem during the 40 K run. And on the day after I realized that, uh, the leg, the Achilles, it's, it was a bit overloaded and I thought it will be good after a week, but it was an inflammation that was not good after a week. And then I was thinking about, um, to do less training. I felt that running down. For example, it's working, but flat running and uphill, it's very bad for this. So I started to do more mountain biking and took the cable car up to run down. So it was a new experience to me, but, but I felt that something is not good and, and it takes really a lot of time to recover.

And for three and a half weeks, I was not really training, uh, physically hard. And then I started to have a better recovery with, uh, physiotherapy. I, in the end, I made a ultrasound therapy to, to get more quick, healthy, and now it's, um, yeah, it was on the end. It was quite, quite tight because, uh, I'm recovered completely, uh, since 10 days. Really? So this

just, just happened. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. So it, uh, all the, my, I, I was, was, uh, break down by, by this problem and, and finally I'm, I'm fine, but, but it was, uh, yeah, a little tight. Almost. Yeah. It was very tight. Yeah. So it was a good listen, listen to, to be more smart on the next time.

Right. And do you have any trouble, Steve Bramfitt did it, you, you guys did a big walk this winter and he did a little write up about, and I was really excited to read it and there wasn't much detail about how you prevent blisters. Do you have a, do you have a special way that you take care of your feet?

Yes. Um, I, I know that it's really important that the socks and your inlets in the shoes and your shoes. Fits together. I have some inlets, they are too slippery and I have some inlets. They are too, too like glue. Yeah. And then my, my foot, my skin moves in the socks and this is very dangerous for blisters. And if the socks slippers on the inlet, then it's also bad so that this plays together. It's very important. When you say inlet,

the insole.

The insole. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. And

I have different shoes. Uh, my wife told me I have 27 shoes. Yeah,

about the same. It's a

bit special. Um, but I'm really know that the shoes are very important. Yeah. And in generally I tested all shoes in the flat on the, on the road. Yeah. Uh, on the trails, it's, it's not that important than on the road. And then it's important to, to train on the flat and a little bit climbing and a little bit downhill. Yeah. And every, everything it's on the, in the grass. Or in the off-road it's less important about the flat. Um, it's sometimes a problem for my, my fits. And finally, I also do, um, I put on Vaseline on my feet and not when it's a problem, I do it generally. Okay. So every day, uh, the Vaseline maybe works for four or five hours and then I, I have to put in on again.

Okay. And what I also do is. While walking on the flat, I change my shoes every 15, 20 K. Yeah. So it's not, um, it's not that, that I can walk differently, but that my feet are loaded differently. Yeah. And also the insole, uh, in, in, in the different shoes are different. And so I have for this race, I bring, uh, six shoes, six different shoes for road and trail. Okay. And then also, uh, mountaineering mountain shoes. Yeah. For sure. If you go really, uh, in snow. Yeah. But I think already for the road, two different shoes and for the trails, three different shoes make sense to switch.

Yeah. Because of the different load on these long days.

Yeah. What's the hardest thing you found in your six races and the X-House and then you do all the other ones too, to take care of? What's, what's the thing that's the, is there been a, a needling little, you know, you had the. The knee injury in 2017, I think, but is there, is there any, any overuse injuries or anything that's just, God, this thing's back.

In general, I was, was always, uh, with a small problems, but it was nothing that destroyed me completely. I guess Aaron had more problem after his, um, downhill in 2017. And what I do, it's a lot of gym training, power training, um, especially my legs. And with strong weights, but also with, um, with the coordination. So, uh, for example, I, I, I clean my teeth on this, on a soft ground, on a soft ball. Yeah. And to stay on the soft ground for five minutes each day. And I do slack lining, for example, and all these small moves and also running off-road, uh, for sure, it gives a good foot and leg stability.

Ankle strength. Yeah,

exactly. And this helps to, to be more resistant during the race. And I guess that in 2017, for sure, the first day was bad weather and we walked all the way. But I was not, I was too lazy with the power training in the spring. I made a power training in the winter and then I started ski touring and I, I started running and I, I put away the, the power training. So I lost muscles and also stability. Oh, and for. For this, I, I made more trainings, uh, in, in 2019 and for sure now do every week for minimum one time, one hour, really hard, uh, with weight, hard power training. Do you work with a trainer?

No, because I, I, I know that the trainer can control me and if I can control myself with a good motivation, I not need a train, but I have a good, um, connections. With other athletes. So I ask them for new exercises and what they do. And then I try it out because I think anyway, it's good to switch exercises often and to try new loads to, to get new, um, muscles. Because if you do every week, uh, always the same exercise with the same weight, it's not efficient. You

talk about cross-training the, using the softball when you're doing, when you're brushing your teeth and slack. Yeah. And, and, uh, climbing, do you feel like that's also crossing over to flying as well? Do you do other things there that are balance oriented that you feel helps flying as well?

Not really for sure. It's good to have strong legs for the acceleration. Yeah. To, to, to fly with speed all the day, but, um, with the new wings, with the B handles, it's not so important anymore. As pretty soft in five years ago. Yeah. It's softer and more comfortable. But in. In general, it's good to be physically ready to do the long flights because the concentration can be longer on the how to fly or where to fly instead of thinking about tiredness and fly with speed, I guess.

What part of the course do you think is going to be the toughest? I've heard you be quite vocal that obviously it can be pretty fast. A lot of the route is some pretty fast terrain on your neck of the woods down the Rhone with good weather. But what do you think? What's the part or parts of the course that trouble you most?

For us, we say we have three halves. So the low level is the roads in rain. And it's very easy to calculate and to walk. And the high level is the alpine where you can go up above the tree line and then you fly. And the biggest trouble we see in the medium layer, which is often the forest, hills, windy and no takeoffs and no landings. And for this, we see that the leg from Lermos until the Switzerland, Santee's turn point, it's often in this area with the mid layer. And then it's really difficult to have straight lines to walk.

And often on the hills, no takeoffs. And you have really to know where to go. If it's flyable, for sure, you can cross over easy. But if not, then it's troubling. And for me, it's also a new area. We never were so low. So. So north of the Alps in crossing towards Switzerland, and I know this area a bit, but also that there is a stable breeze from the north come in every day and it makes the flight more difficult. Sure. And after for sure, it's it's it's high up in and more easy if we have good weather. Otherwise, it's it's hard to walk for sure with the up and downs and then the south is over the west part.

It's the question about the weather, because if it's flyable, it's one hour and done, and if not, it's one day. Yeah. So there was some discussions about this one thousand two hundred K to do it in ten days. Yes, it's an average of my speed over the last six editions. But in these editions, the turn point wasn't so difficult. Sure. And now. So now it has the weather have to be better than the average in the past. And we had good weather. Yeah. I remember 2007, Alex Hofer walked to the snow in the in the Volker Pass and the supported cars with the summer wheels was not following. So it's if happened this this year, for sure, 12 days, it's not enough.

Yeah. But the most interesting part, for sure, it's after the Mont Blanc because you can choose different ways. Yeah. And the ways are not easy to switch. So if you choose. One way, for example, the south, you have to stay south of the Alps. If you go north back to Wallis, you have to stay there and you have a extra way to do because it's a longer way. But it's highway if it's liable, I guess it's faster to do it the extra way. And I'm really happy to do this part because. Yeah, I think it could be fascinating. You could have. Yeah.

I mean, there's there's there's five main ways to get through and more.

So and it's it's two hundred. Forty five K from the Mont Blanc to the Piz Palais. And in a good day, we can do it in one day. Yeah. Because it's all downwind. Downwind, I hope. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm especially focused on the on the last part of the race. OK. To come from Meran, Kronplatz back to the goal. Mm hmm. Because I think if if you are tired and you are so close from the goal, you have to know exactly what to do. So for sure, the idea, it's easy. But actually, one week before we are there, it's quite a lot of snow. Yeah, it's very

snowy this year.

It's snowy and depends on which time on the day you arrive and which cloud base you have. And the worst case for sure is to fly into the valley in the evening with a low base. Yeah. Then you have to land on a place where you don't know what the snow it's it's it's doing. And I know that that with this running shoes, you can be stuck in a in a meter of snow. Yeah. Post-holing hell in

the summer. Isometric, isothermic and

I can be miserable. I really be careful with these situations. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because it's not until now I did six races and almost every race was was always pushing. And on this race with the snow, it can be happened that it's not about pushing, it's about safety. Yeah. Pulling back a little to arrive. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a there's there's some there's some potential overhanging hazards out there. Yeah. I mean that in general. I was talking to Thomas this morning and your team is back to the original. That's just you and him. I understand you have a media guy in the Land Rover, but

what's it feel like to be back with your your your guy here? That's got to be really exciting.

Yeah, he's he's back in the race. We never stopped our partnership, but I'm very happy that he said last summer that he's interested to do the exams again and that he will take time for this. For sure. It's the preparation time. We spend a lot of time and now these three weeks for him. It's it's really expensive for sure. But it's also good to think about the future. To to to improve our our skills by by the normal process, but also by by doing the daily life over the two years between the exams. So so it's not only about doing the race again together. It's it's also working on us in general.

Yeah. And he said the the decision to go with the really small team just got the small van. And the two member, you and I talked about this the last time that the race has gotten so fast and the teams have gotten so much faster that to do it just with one, which is what you preferred back when you did the first couple, is maybe just too much is just too much on the supporter to handle. So I'm curious, what was your decision this time? Was it more driven by Thomas? Was it more driven by you and in the decision to really just go with the one supporter?

I

felt that one car with two supporters, it's it's a good combination because they can they can help each other for driving for for the logistic and everything. And and having two cars for sure, it's it's a good option, but it helps only on some parts. Yeah. And the other I would say 80 percent, the second car, the more people it's not useful. And it have to be really really in a good balance that they are not too lazy or that they keep up the motivation all these two weeks because it's not it's not the holiday. Yeah, it's not the pleasure. It's after one week it starts to be hard. Yeah.

And and for this we have we had a long talk with with different people. And and for me, it makes more sense to keep the team small. But but I

don't think it's really efficient.

Yeah. So I know that I often have maybe some grams or kilograms more with me to be safe instead of having support. But on the other hand, it not makes me much slower. So it makes me slower for one accent. Yeah. Some minutes. Right. But it's not the problem for more days. Right. And more hours. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, and generally there is, um, I, I guess I have a better time with with one or two person instead of of a group. Yeah, and fun is important. Yeah, the fun is important, and and to talk and to enjoy, and uh, it's so so focused these two weeks so that that it's difficult to to keep or take time for for many people.

Yeah, I feel like final

Question, uh, I wasn't planning on asking you this, but when we pass Mont Blanc, we've got Orciers into the into the Rhone, or we've got Domodossola and Macadnaga, and Domodossola up around the big C, we've got Macadnaga and direct, we've got Belenzona, we've got the south, we've got all these options. When you, when are you making that call? And are you making that call? Is it something as you're leaving Denta Oceana and getting up into that zone? Your weather person, I don't know if you even have a weather person now back home, but is, is it, is it really okay? The weather's looking better and they're not going that way, or is it just you calling it on the fly in the sky? The

Most of the road, I, I go step by step along the clouds, yeah? And and do it quite, quite on a small planning, but I know that in, in the area around Mont Blanc, we have to have a better forecast for the next two, three days, yeah? And for this, I have help at home to, to understand better what's happened, and we say that when there is north wind, um, then we have better conditions in the south, but it can be too windy and too dangerous, yeah? So maybe it's more smart to go north, you're

talking about fern you when it's really, yeah, it's really strong, yeah.

Exactly, okay. And and the opposite is with south wind, so this is a big influential and, uh, in the end, it's it's a decision where we have to take, uh, quite early, and then we are in this way. But as you said, there is some some places where you can switch, where you can go from north to the south, or yeah. So I guess that that depends of the of the weather situation. We made this plan A, B, C, D, and then if you go plan A, there is another point for a new decision, and from this point, it's another play A, B, C, D. And we know this already; we read them down. We spend a lot of hours for for thinking about these options, and now I can go to the place and I can check the forecast and I can go directly to the plan we we thought, yeah.

And then it's more or less clear what it means in the next decision point, and it makes it easier, and and I can have a quicker decision, and I know the the strong points or the chances, and then know the problems. For example, the south, it's more straight, yeah, but you have air spaces, yeah. And the north is more far, but it's highway, yeah. And yeah, finally, I did all the time, uh, small steps until the point, and if it was really not clear, I followed my stomach for what I am whatever I'm feels right, yeah. It was the same in 2017.

I I made the turn point Matterhorn, and then it was straight to the south, and we could go west to France and east through Italy. Italy, they say it's a no-go because not flyable so much. And the France, French part was more long, but on this time it was really not clear how good the conditions would be in the next two days, and I didn't know what to do, and I glided down from this high call, the yeah, and uh, in the back side of Vermont to the south, yeah, and I top landed because I wanted to understand better what's happened, and I called to my Matthew guy and he says, "Ah, maybe it's 50-50."

And on the end I started and I flew, and then I had to decide how Ulster or Ibra, and then there was a storm and

Then there was a storm.

Coming towards Avosta, and I felt, okay, this is now a no-go, so you have to go left in the sun. Yeah, and this was the decision easy. And finally, I landed, and I know now to go back to France, it's an extra work. Yeah, so keep going right. And and finally, it was working. I'm not sure if it was faster or not, but at this time, in this place, it was for me easy to decide because of the storm they come so, and often, often I don't know exactly what to do. I on the end, I followed the the easiest way. Yeah,

Yeah, Chrigel, thank you. Always such a pleasure, and thank you for being so open and sharing of all your knowledge, and uh, terrific win today. Congratulations, and I can't wait to do this again with you. Thanks, uh, thanks so much, and look forward to racing with you on Sunday.

Yeah, I'm very happy, and uh, for me, it's also nice to see that you are here every two years and to keep up the motivation. And I mean, for us, I give you something

to look forward to yeah 50. yeah

Yeah, often people or journalists ask, "What you do after when you're not able to fly anymore?" And they say, "It's, it's another two or three at another 20 years that I would fly." And okay, it's 61, so yeah, I will do this for a long time. Yeah, the

next guests are simon and and thomas and combined they're my age yeah they are so young They're so young. Thomas did well today. He did great. Yeah, he flew really fast, really well. That's fantastic to see.

No, it's cool. I'm very happy to start a new adventure. Everybody knows, or everybody not knows, but they gave me the feeling that I will win for sure. But I told them, no, it's a new race. It's a new challenge. Things happen. And you have to go so careful. Yeah. And not only for one, two days. It's for all day until the goal. Got to stay healthy for a long time. It's a really bigger challenge than a competition. Sure. And I think nobody understands. I don't think so. I think it's very hard to understand.

I wasn't going to ask you any more questions, but let me ask you one more.

After six wins, do you still see this as you'll do five more? Ten more? Will you just keep doing it as long as it's interesting and challenging?

Yeah, I say as long as my body is not doing too much problems and as long as I feel a good motivation, as long as I like to do it. Because in this hike and fly sport, I really do only what I like to do. And I like to work with persons, with companies, for sponsors. I like to do the media work as well because I can share the good feelings, the motivation, and I think the most important for all the people in the world is to have a goal, to feel the motivation, to be happy, and also to reach a goal, to feel the good feeling. And yes, why not to do it again and again?

Because I can learn in the training and preparation time so much. And in the race, it's so intense, but also good. For sure, it's painful and not so... I know that they are not all days just funny days. Yeah. But in general, I think I'm happy after. Yeah. And I'm proud to look back and see what we did. Yeah. And for this, I go for the pain.

You're very inspiring. Thank you, Chrigel. And good luck. Have fun. Be safe. And yeah, see you in Zellmose. Yes. It's a long

way, but... It's a

long way. We hope. We

hope. Simon,

great to have you on the show. I've been actually meaning to get you on for a real show, and we will do that at some point because I've been really impressed with your skyrocket improvement and your last two X-Alps. You've done really well in this race. But thanks for coming on the Mayhem and sharing a little bit of your time. How did it go today?

Well, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for doing the... Thank you for doing the podcast with me. How did it go today? Today was, I have to say, I feel very good. Yeah. And it was a nice race. I really enjoyed it. Cool. And I think that's probably the best that could happen. I didn't make my first flight, my first attempt. Ah, did you have

a bad cycle? Were you one of those that had to win? Yeah, it was

such a bad cycle. You know, it's so hard. You see people like Chrigel, Tommy, Maxime, and I. Yeah, making it work. Got a nice bubble. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to join there. No way. Yeah. I just couldn't. And the cycle was over. And I had to land again, walk up again. And it was so hot. Aaron, do the same. It was hot today, man. It

was brutal.

But then it worked out great. And I had a really good feeling under my wing. And yeah, everything was nice. I got into the flow. And... Therefore, I knew I have nothing to win now, but everything to lose if I bomb out or something like this. Don't walk. No more walking.

25K course, I can fly this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. And

so easy flying. And yeah, I'm happy with that. So I can sleep half an hour more on Monday. There

you go.

That's not bad either. Hey, you

got to look at all the optimistic sides of these things, don't you? You've done really well in this race. You're quite young. I think you just had your 30th birthday. Yeah. Congratulations. But yeah, you've done really well. You seem to have the right approach. I've seen a bunch of your interviews. You're always really happy and stoked. And you seem like quite an opportunist. What, if anything, are you changing this time around? What have you learned from the last two that... And not necessarily to place better. You've placed really well. But just to, I don't know, do something different in a different way.

For me, the approach always was to... To make this an adventure and make it like I'm allowed to take part and I can part. I don't have to. So that was always the focus. And when I first participated and then the race started and it was like all gone. And I was like, okay. Oh, sorry. And I was like, okay, full speed and flying in conditions where... I shouldn't have been flown. And then I landed. And then I realized that. And I wanted to quit. I said, okay, that's not good. But then...

Oh, you kind of had like a coming to Jesus kind of moment. Yeah, kind of. Just kind of, whoa, wait a minute. That wasn't... That's not the plan. That wasn't. Yeah. Okay.

Just as you say, yeah. And then I have the luck that I have my best friends with me. And also my girlfriend. And then we said, okay, now let's see. Let's just walk a little bit and talk about it. We even collect some mushrooms on the way. Yeah. 2017. And then I was like, okay, let's do it easy. Tomorrow we go up there and then we look how it's going. And then I... So you

must be talking about the 2017 when we all flew in the fern. Yeah. And the really dicey day. Yeah. That was pretty sketchy. That was the scariest parry wedding I'd ever seen. And I was... I walked all that night. I did a terrible move with my knife. So I saw you guys all flying down and it was terrifying. That really was tough. And

then the next day we got a perfect east side started. And on the end of the day, I was, I think, 25th, 25th ranking. And then I was fifth. So I just had no pressure. Yeah. And that's not so easy to do. So don't pressure yourself during, during an event like this, that's, that's not, not easy, but that's my main goal because I know only then I can be good and only then I can fly really intuited, but it's really hard to do it's not easy. Yeah.

How much experience did you have when you came into your first one? I think I had about four, four years of flying. Wow. Four or five years. Yeah. A lot of people have taught, have had on the show. You know, none of the X-Tops, you know, four and five years. I just think that's amazing, but I did

fly really a lot. I flew a lot. I, it was, um, I started studying and flying together and it was, it didn't, it didn't go well for studying. So I was just flying. Yeah. I, is this your job? Yeah, this is my job. Um, the, the thing is I'm with Thomas Friedrich, Tommy Flyer. Yeah. Tommy Flyer. Yeah. Um, we have flying school in Graz together and. Which was his father's, correct? It was his father's. Yeah. Yeah.

And now we

are doing it. Yeah.

Paul was just in here and he said when he did his first X-Alps, Tommy was nine.

Yeah, that's, that's right. And

Paul was

pretty young when he did his first X-Alps. It's kind of funny because, um, we all are about 10 years or one generation each. And when I did my first flight, my first flight from the. High Hill, like 400 meters altitude difference, Tommy was there. And I think one week later he did his first flight out there and he was like super. Tiny little guy. Tiny little guy. And yeah, but you could tell that he has a very good feeling for the wing because he's doing his, all his life. He.

He's just been around it since the beginning. Yeah. I'm so jealous of that. That's, that's so awesome. Me

too, me too.

Okay. Last two races going into this one. What have you found? Physically is the most, is the hardest thing to, to deal with.

It depends. Um, if you, if the weather is good, I mean, then the physical part is, is not that hard, but then you just keep pushing harder because you have more energy. The road is very hard, but maybe not the hardest thing. Um, I think the hardest, hardest part is mentally. You just have to stay positive. And. If you. If you do wrong decisions, um, you have to prepare yourself for that, to, to have a plan if, if something bad happens, like you, you bomb out on a super day and when you're pissed off, then nothing works and, and yeah, that's, that's, that's really hard.

That's really hard. It's really hard. It's easy to say you won't get pissed off, but it's really, it's really hard. This is a, it's kind of a tough question. I asked this one with one other. Yeah. Everything. We have, and it's, it's a super light race, every ounce matters. So I know that everything in our bag is obviously we wouldn't take it if it wasn't really important, but what are the three kind of pieces of gear that you think, yeah, that one's that, that one's key.

So do you mean except of the flying equipment? Yeah. I mean,

we all have the flying equipment, so that's, you know, I think, I think it would be fair to say, okay, you gotta have the right wing. We all very much love our wing, but, but no, I'm thinking more. Little stuff that most people maybe aren't thinking about, you know, the stuff that, that is maybe more mundane in the, in the general eyes, but for us, it's actually really pretty key.

Okay. There are some things like I need the right shoes, for example, for flying, because not every shoe is perfect for, for the accelerator and, and that kind of had to stick together and, and then maybe if you want to go. Yeah. Out of the cocoon, the profile gets stuck or something like, and so, so the shoes are important for me for flying and walking and walking. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's,

do you go, do you go with like a low drop suit or, you know, not much cushion, a lot of cushion. Do you have different ones for doing different things? Yeah.

I, I, I change a lot on the road because, um, every time I feel, okay, now the shoe was maybe a little bit too soft. I changed to wear. More without cushioning and, and so I think there's the more you change, the better for me. So, so I have different, um, um, my feet gets different, um, rub

points and where, where it is. Yeah, sure.

So, but, but I, I have one thing always, um, I have one pair of shoes with me that are new. I know the shoe, but it's always like a little, a good thing. For me. So like, uh, not a surprise, but, uh, a sweet, a sweet, sweet thing for me. Like a little treat. A little treat. Yeah. A little treat for me. Um, when I have this shoe then. Okay. It's like the cushion is perfect and nice. And I, I normally don't have problems with blisters. Yeah.

Really? Oh, you're lucky. Yeah. I have a lot of problems with my feet, but it's, I think I've sorted it out after four, going into the fourth race. Last question. When you. When they opened up the application period this time. So July 1st, I think what was the one thing that was, I have to do this race again. What was the, what was the overriding? Yes. I'm going to apply again. I'm going to do it again. What was the reason why? I

guess it was the overall feeling when I stood there in Monaco and my family joined me. So my, my parents were down there. My whole team and we made it to that float, you know, and that was, we all on the beach and you're just happy here and it's such a relief to be there. And I thought about that, but I also thought about the tough things because it was very ill at the race 2019, but we kind of pushed everything through and I was so amazed what was possible.

Let's see what 2021 brings and that was, that was the

drive. It was, I get, I, in some ways, I, I mean, I love this course way more than going to Monaco. I think it's going to be a lot more fun and staying in the mountains and stuff, but in some ways we're also lucky that we've been there. And, and it's, I, I, I feel for those that are, that are new or that haven't because it's, you know, it's kind of, it's quite cool getting, you know, crossing the Alps and ending at the ocean. That is quite neat. But God, that's a terrible place. The hot and the concrete and the, oh my God. It's really tough. Yeah. Miserable down there, but Simon, thank you. And nice race today and good luck, of course, and be safe, be healthy and, and let's have some fun.

For sure. And congratulations to your race. It was also pretty nice.

Thank you. Yeah, no, it really, it all just worked. It worked. That was good. I've had a rough, we've talked about that already on the show, but I had a pretty bad crash about two and a half weeks ago and it was pretty beat up. And so today was kind of the first day where I'm starting to feel healthy again. So it was just in time. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you. Okay.

First off, nice job today, dude. Pretty good as a rookie on the podium. So fantastic work. How was it?

Yeah, just super nice day. When I think back to this morning. It was, yeah, I would never expect this. And now in the evening after this product of my first ever at League Subs, it's just, yeah, it's just crazy. Yeah. I never thought that I would be on the podium. And yeah, it was a nice battle in the end with Benoit. But yeah, I was a bit higher and a bit faster and then it was good and I could manage to get on the podium. Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. Crazy. I

was going to, in 2015, I got, we had, it was the last time we had kind of a flying race. Yeah. You know, 2017, 2019, the weather was pretty bad. Yeah. And I got third in that one. And it was, you know, when I came into that race, I literally had no idea if I was going to be the first one eliminated. I just didn't know where I belonged. And it was quite a nice confidence boost. Now you've done, you've been doing some other hike and fly races. I gather you probably weren't as, it wasn't as good. It wasn't quite as much unknown as I was back in 2015. But is it been, is it good for your confidence? Do you feel that, did that help going into the main race? Yeah.

I think it's always a bit of a confidence boost. Sure. And yeah, it's a perfect start of my, my first race and yeah, for me it's the same. So I think Ratlitz helps, it's 12 days long and there are so many factors that can go good or wrong. Yeah. So I think it's really, really difficult to, to say, okay, I have that and that expectation for the race. I think it's really important to, yeah, to, to just go there and give your best. And in the end of, at the end of every day, you see where you are and what you have done right or wrong. And after every day, it's quite difficult to, to reflect all the, all the things that happened.

Hmm. But I think it's really important to do and to see, okay, what I have done right today, what I have done wrong today and what can I do better tomorrow and learn out of your mistakes. And yeah, I will try.

How, how have you approached the preparation and kind of ramping up to this? I know that I saw the interview with you and Simon at Tarquin Dead and I know you and Simon have the school together. Has he been quite a, quite a good mentor? Did he help you out a lot with just what to expect? That was a hard thing for me is I, I really had no idea. I didn't know, you know, 12 days, it just seemed too much. I mean, it just is, will my body work that long, you know? Yeah.

So yeah, right now I have, I'm working in the flying school, so I overtook the flying school from my dad and yeah, I do it together with Simon. And I joined Simon already at the last two editions of the race. So in 2000. Ah,

I forgot

that you supported Simon. Yeah, I supported Simon. Yeah, right. Okay. Like four years ago, it was still allowed to fly together. So we were flying a lot together in the race and yeah, it was a super nice time there back then. And last year I was, so the last edition two years ago, I was also with him, was not allowed to fly together anymore. Yeah. But I was still going up to the mountain with him. Then he took off and I flew as well a bit. And yeah, it was a nice experience to see how the race is going. And I can remember when I was here at the race for the first time, it was when I was a little child and I was there on, it was the Prologue on Schaffberg.

Okay. It was in Fuschl. Yeah. And I was there with my dad on the Prologue. Oh, in 2015. Yeah. Yeah. I was also flying there and with my, I had a Scabbard Chili with a light harness and I was also hiking up there and it was like, ah, all the super good X-Hubs athletes, all the - So you've been around this your whole life. Yeah. It was the first time I was really into the race and I was following the race since I was a little child. Yeah. Really. So since I, since Paul was there for the first time and Paul was also in our flying school and when he came for the first time in our flying school, he said, okay, he wants to do X-Hubs and he was just a beginner. Everyone laughed at him.

Yeah. Then some years later he started at the race and since then I was always following the race and said, okay, I want to go there. I want to do this also. What

does it feel like to be here? I mean, can you even articulate it? I mean, you're here, you got third in the prologue. Yes.

It's pretty hard to realize it. So I came here and it's like, okay, now you're an athlete and all the people around me are, fuck, how cool is this? Now you're here as an athlete. And I said, yeah, I'm here as an athlete. Sure. Fuck. I didn't realize it yet. And then today there was the prologue and I was flying and it was just, I also didn't realize it. I realized that, okay, now I'm in third position. What's going on?

How did this work? How does this work? It was like

super nice. Yeah. Just crazy. Crazy. I can't realize it.

Tommy, your dad was very famous in this sport. He had the school for a long time. Your dad taught Paul and Simon and very sadly passed last year. I'm sorry. But he, if he was here, what do you think he'd say to you? Yeah. What advice would he give you? Not about today, but going into this race. What advice would he give you?

Yeah. So he was always the person that when I had something really special, he was the first person I called and I said, yeah, fuck, I did this and I did this. And it's like. So excited for you. He was my flying teacher and I started flying because of him. Wow. And yeah. He was really always the person. If it was a good news or bad news, he was always the person. If it was a bad news, I was always, always called him and said, yeah, hey, I did this and I did this. And for sure he would be, he would have been the first person that I would call today after the race. Awesome. They would

have been here. But what advice do you think he'd have for you? What do you, what? What advice? What advice? Yeah. It's just, you know, as your dad, he's, he's got all this experience. He's had the school, you know, you've done well in the prologue. What would he say as a, you know, as a dad? Hey Tommy, on Sunday, here's what you need to do.

Yeah. So in the end, I think, um, he was a person that I think he, he never showed it like this as a super nice, you did this super nice or you did this super good. It was always like, yeah, you did, you did good, but it was, but inside he was really super with me, you know, so he was super thrilled and, and, uh, super happy for me and with me. But to the outside, it was just, or not to the outside. So to the outside, to other people, it was always like he was super proud and, and, uh, everyone told it to me also, but, um, to me it was always like, yeah, you did good, but that's okay. Not too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Not

too much praise. Not too much. Yeah. I'm a

dad. I get that. I'm a dad. I'm

a dad.

It's not too much. Uh, but, but you did good. Ah, you just served. Yeah. Maybe you could win. No, no, it's not like this. He was, he was also proud, but yeah, but he was never like, okay, it's

super nice. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Not,

not overdo it, but yeah, just, just the perfect balance.

You mentioned it.

You mentioned it's quite hard to set kind of correct expectations. Yeah. It's

Not like you don't have any expectations.

when you don't really know what you're, what you're getting into or what it's even all about totally. Um, but what are your expectations? What are your expectations and what are your fears about the race? Whew. That's hard. So like

I said before, expectations, I think it's, it's, um, it's pretty hard to, to say, okay, I have these and these expectations for the race because it's that long and, uh, so many things can happen. And like I said before, so many things can go good or can go wrong. Like today, he was just super lucky that the the terminals were right there when we took off, yeah. And then afterwards, other people took off and then, yeah, and they had it was done, so the terminals were done, they were done for or the next cyclos were coming and, um, yeah. So I think it's not always, uh, just that you, yeah, in the end it's, in the end, you see who is the better one, who is the not the better one, yeah. But, um, but

For, for some moments, maybe you, you need luck too. So, yes, it's sometimes some something work out, and for another one, it don't work out. So you fly there, and the terminal is there, and you, you climb up, and another one came there, and then or come there, and uh, the terminal is drunk. So, so you need a bit of luck. But, um, yeah, in the end, my, my expectation or my goal for the race is, is, um, for sure to, to get to the goal in, in Salam Sea, yeah. But also to, to just give my best, and I will try to give my best, and, and, uh, yeah, keep up the good vibes. I think that's the most important thing. Stay happy, stay happy, yeah. That's, that's always my motto in life.

Also, just, just stay happy. It's not so, I think it's, it's not possible to like, you always be happy, yeah. But, uh, because if you're always happy, there is no happy or no bad anymore, right? But, yeah, but there, there's no time in, or the life is too short for, for bad vibes. So, just try to stay happy, and, and, uh, yeah, the good, good times will come again.

Like the song, yeah? Like the song, yeah. Um, last question: do you have, do you have any specific fears about the race? And that could be, uh, I don't mean scary, yeah, but any anything that's that you're worried about? Yeah, in terms of maybe part of the course or your team or your, your own preparation? Anything, anything that's just kind of needling you at night, keeping you up a little bit before the race? So, one big

Fear is, for sure, are the the air spaces and the no landing zones. There's so many, and yeah, it's every year it's getting more difficult, yeah, with the with the air spaces and not only on the exhaust route, it's like always where you fly it's it's they're getting more and more air spaces, but it itself, it's uh, it's a disaster if you if you go into one, yeah. And uh, it can be over just uh, you just don't realize that you're in, and then and then the race is over for you. So do you have

The, do you have the side view? Do you use Fly Sky High by any chance? Um, use a XT track. I use it's the track. Yeah, does it have the side view? Do you know what I'm talking about? Um, this saves me. I try to tell everybody about this. Yes, saves me in this race. So the side view is, you know, you got your map, okay? Yeah, and this has the airspace, so see like where we are. So this has the ceiling, yeah, and your predictor line, okay? So you know this is that, right? There is the the barn, the the no hunting zones here. Yeah, yeah. So if you're on, if you're on that line, it'll show. It's just you can't go through there, okay? So you'll see it there, you know, like you normally do. But this side view for me, you know, say say coming out of the Geisberg and it steps up, right? Oh man, it makes it so nice.

Yeah, I know a lot of people that have hit because of that. You know, I have to, I have to look for it's a nice thing to have, um, or free tip, but uh, yeah, because there's a lot of airspace. Yeah, sure, and it can really

can really destroy your your race, yeah, so it's an easy way to

Take yourself right out of flow, yeah, that's it.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so it's—it's really difficult because, yeah, you practice it in—in the preparation, you fly. And no, because we don't have any airspace at home, yeah.

We have, we have, yeah, you have it. We don't literally have no airspace where, yeah, that's that nice. Well, it's lovely, but when I, when my first race, I was petrified of the airspace, and now because of that, it has really helped. If I had to do it just on the fly master, no way, I can't do it. Yeah, it's not because I just don't know the fly master that well, but I have to have it visually, that where I can see it and kind of understand it, because now I, I struggle with airspace, sure.

Yeah, that's cool. I use xtdrake and it's also working quite well, and there's, um, the distances to the air spaces, but, uh, yeah, there are so many no-no flight zones because of hunting also, and no planned landing zones, yeah, that

One's weird; they've never had that before. Yeah, yeah.

It's, it's, it makes the race even more difficult, so I have a plan for this, Tommy. Yeah, we

just fly through those parts, yeah, sure, no landing, yeah.

I would say too, yeah, I

think that's a good plan.

We, we, we take all the difficult parts of the route, and then we fly through there. Yes, exactly, it's my plan too, so I, I would like to do it. So, yeah, okay. And then we, we arrive in Goal after 10 days because it's super nice for flying there. We go. So that's that. There we go, let's do it. Like, let's do it like that. Sounds good.

That's the plan. Nice job today, uh, great, great work, and congratulations, and I'm really excited to race with you and everybody else on Sunday. And if there's anything I can do to help you out, let me know, but thanks for your time. Thank you for the nice talk, if

You find the Cloudbase Mayhem valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher, or however you get your podcast; that goes a long ways and helps spread the word. You can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media. You can talk about it on the way up to launch with your pilot friends; I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way. And of course, you can support us financially. This show does take a lot of time, a lot of editing, a lot of storage and music, and all kinds of behind-the-scenes cost. So, if you can support us financially, all we've ever asked for is a buck a show, and you can do that through a one-time donation through PayPal, or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out. We put a new show out every two weeks, so for example, if you did a buck a show and every two weeks, it'd be about 25 a year, so way cheaper than a magazine subscription, and it makes all of this possible.

I do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors. We get asked about that pretty frequently, but I, for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show, I don't want to do that. I don't like having that stuff at the front of the show, and I also want you to know that these are authentic conversations with real people, and these are just our opinions, but our opinions are not being skewed by sponsors or advertising dollars. I think that's a pretty toxic business model, so I hope you dig that.

You can support us if you go to cloudbasemayhem.com. You can find the places to support. You can do it through patreon.com forward slash cloudbasemayhem. If you want a recurring subscription, you can also do that directly through the website. We've tried to make it really easy, and that will give you access to all the bonus material, little video casts that we do, and extra little nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show, but we feel like you should hear. We don't put any of that behind a paywall. If you can't afford to support us, then just let me know, and I'll set you up with an account. Of course, that'll be lifetime and hopefully, and you're in a position someday to be able to support us, but you'll find all that on the website. All of you who have supported us, or even joined our newsletter, or bought Cloudbase Mayhem merchandise, t-shirts, or hats, or anything, you should be all set up.

You should have an account. You should be able to access all that bonus material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support, and we'll see you on the next show. Thank you.