Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. Well, with the race barely two weeks away, I thought we should get somebody on in the race. And I reached out. This is actually several months ago that I reached out to Maxine, but we just recorded this a couple weeks ago. Maxime Pinot, I think, probably gave Chrigel the best run for his money yet of his six wins. And certainly an incredibly talented pilot. Got second in the X-Period the year before. He just won the Borners to Fly last week and actually beat Chrigel. So I think if Chrigel's looking over his shoulder at anybody, it's probably going to be Maxine. There is a lot of talent in the race this year.
It always gets faster and faster every time. And more and more teams are more polished. And the depth of talent and skill this year is deeper than it's ever been. So there's certainly others who could give him a big run for his money, too. But Maxine's definitely, I think, the top gunner for first place. And the one Chrigel's going to be most worried about. Not that Chrigel worries about anything. But anyway, so I reached out to Maxine, and it wasn't so much about the X-Alps. I reached out to him because I wanted to talk to him about a blog post that he put up that was circulating on Facebook and stuff that came out just about the same time. He did the podcast with Malin Lobb that was all about SIV and training and maneuvers and that kind of stuff.
And this wasn't in response to that. He just happened to put it out about the same time. And it wasn't rebuking anything that Malin talked about on the show. They both live in Annecy. I'm sure they're friends. But this was basically, you know, yes, SIV training is super important. We should all be doing it. But the reality is very few people can. It's expensive. It's time-consuming. A lot of people don't have a place where they can train that's very convenient to where they typically fly, especially those of us here in North America. It's pretty hard to find training, certainly over the water, that you can do SIV training. So, yeah, it's expensive. It's tough. It's, you know, the last thing a lot of people want to do when they have their two or three weeks or four weeks off a year and go travel to fly is spend a week doing maneuvers over and over again.
So, the write-up. That he did, I just thought was really good. And it was about, well, that would be great, but most people can't. So, what do we do? How do we still be safe? And it was basically just by making better decisions. Keep your glider open and make better decisions. So, you know, one of my real mentors and a guy I was flying with this weekend, Nate Scales, has been flying for 30 years. Has had, I mean, he threw his reserve once. And then one very minor injury to his wrist. But chased it really, really hard for an awful lot of time. And he's never done any SIV. So, I'm not saying that's the way we should approach it. I think SIV is very important, as we talk about a lot on the show.
And it's real critical.
But it's maybe not for everybody. And some people just can't do it. So, this is kind of the response to that. But we also get into how to climb better, how to thermal better. He did, he's already done two 300K plus. Flights this year. Won a big monster FAI back in late April before Europe's been getting pounded by snow since then. But he's had a couple of huge flights this year. He, Maxine, came out through the French Juniors program, which we've talked about quite a bit on the show. Charles Cazot and others that we've had on have come through that program. Very jealous of that over there in France. But an amazing pilot. Really fast on the ground. It's going to be fun to race with him. And I'm really looking forward to that. And this is a great show. I think you're going to enjoy that as well.
I wouldn't say this is housekeeping, but I have a story for you all. I think you'll find entertaining. This weekend, Saturday, Sunday, and actually today, looked really epic. The highest bases we've had here in Sun Valley, well over 18,000. And light winds and things look pretty good for some big flights. So, Saturday, I packed up all my bivy gear and O2 and hiked up one of our kind of lower launches here, Sun Peak, and pinged off. And I'm going to do a really nice flight back over the Bacton Trail Creek and top landed back there with some elk. And I just couldn't resist. There's all these elk cruising around and I top landed and hung out for a bit and then relaunched. And I was kind of approaching Saturday as an ex-Alps day to just do some top landing and train and go scout some things that I've been wanting to look at for a while.
And had a really nice day. Had a nice afternoon flight. Got up really tall and cruised around in the piles and our beautiful mountains and lots of snow still around. And I think that's it. And, yeah, it was pretty stunning. Really cold, but really stunning. And then landed down in a place called Copper Basin and spent the night in a campground. A couple people actually gave me a ride in their car to the same campground and had a nice dinner with them. And it was a very nice evening. Really, really cold. And then the next day, yesterday, Sunday, went up and it took me a while. It took a couple hours to find a good launch. It was kind of southeast facing. It was maybe just before 11 a.m. And felt really good about the day. Everything looked good. There was a little bit of wind coming over the back that was just kind of katabatic, I think, coming down off the snowy fields above me.
But I had a good 30 minutes to suss it out as I was getting ready and kind of double-checked everything and just felt really good to go have a good day. Launched and kind of flew down the ridge a while. There were some little bubbles, but not much. I didn't even turn. And then had a friction knot in my upper cascades on my brakes. And kind of gave it a hard yank and it just popped the line. But it was just one of the little brake lines off the top cascades. So, no big deal. Flung a lot with that. So, I wasn't too concerned about that. And took a hard left turn, kind of crossed this little canyon. And the next area was all just sage and totally wide open. A couple trees, all southeast facing. And I thought, okay, well, for sure I'm going to get a climb here. And if I don't, I'll just top land, slope land, and walk up a little bit and relaunch when it's on.
And then I got in some pretty weird sinky air, but moderate. Nothing too extreme. I didn't think too much of it just as I was crossing the canyon. And then started feeling a little bit more wonky. And then took a huge hit. Not a frontal, just took a big collapse on the right side of the wing. And at the time, I was 38 meters AGL from looking back at the track log. So, I was very, very... I was very low, barely over 100 feet off the deck. And my instant thought was just reserve immediately. And I identified the handle. I have a front mount. I was flying the Calibri and my Peak 5. And identified the handle and went to throw it.
And instantly went into an auto rotation. I kind of looked up right before I went to throw it just to see what was going on. It was one of those hits where you just know it's really bad. And I looked up and the right side was... Totally cravatted and it was a big one. And of course, as soon as I looked up and saw that, I started into a pretty radical auto rotation. And because I had just done all this SIV training, more acro training, but I'd just done four days with Dylan Benedetti out in California over the water. And just been doing a ton of stalls out there. I was pretty concerned about throwing the reserve into the wing in an auto rotation. I knew that I had one chance. I knew that I had to get this reserve out and deployed immediately or I was going to be in bad shape.
And so I stalled the flying side, the left side of the wing pretty much immediately. And was kind of actively piloting in a kind of a deep stall configuration. But I was still rotating slowly. And the next rotation was going to be basically into the mountain. So I tried to just consciously
think about it. And
I tried to
just consciously
think about it. Keeping my hands low so it wouldn't restart and hucked. And I hucked it really, really hard. Saw the bag fly off. Saw the reserve deploy. Looked down and it was probably one, two pound. And I didn't actually even feel the reserve slowing me down. If it's a 100 kg round and I had all my bivvy kits. So I was way over that. And those don't bring you down all that slowly. Anyway. You know, that's my X-Alps stuff. So would have really liked to have a bigger reserve for sure. And a square for sure. And, you know, looking back, I think when I first took the hit just instantly, that would have been the place to throw.
And like I said, I looked at the handle and I was reaching for it. And then I just didn't like the configuration I was in right after that. But I think if I had just immediately thrown, I would have had probably, probably a much softer landing as it was. I hit incredibly hard on my left side. And the only thing I thought about as I was going in was, wow, this seems really fast. And keep your arms in so you don't break them. And just kind of, I just kind of tensed up to take the hit. It didn't sound very good when I hit, but luckily it was mostly dirt. My left hip hit a bit of a rock. And so that's just kind of bruised. Although I don't really bruise. You can't see the bruise, but I can certainly feel it. And it was very. Very thankful that I had a proper first aid kit. I took 800 milligrams of ibuprofen pretty much as soon as I got out of my harness.
I laid there for a long time just to let the adrenaline kind of ease off and make sure, you know, okay, feel your toes, do some checks that I could when I was kind of in the harness and kind of balled up. The reserve was just flying over my head because it was pretty thermic and there was some wind coming up the ridge. And so I sat there for quite a long time to just kind of chill out, make sure everything was okay. Crawled out of my harness. Slow, you know, sat down for another five, 10 minutes, took, took 800 milligrams of ibuprofen knowing there was some pretty solid pain coming, started to feel pretty good at the back was okay. It was a bit worried about the pelvis because that's, that took the main hit when I, when I landed, but wasn't real sure. And then moving around was pretty tough. And so I got out the inReach and messaged quite a few people, my wife and others, a good doctor friend of mine just to let him know.
And he's like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So I thought, okay, well, I'm pretty confident I can self-rescue and walk out of here. It was like a kilometer and a half to get back to the campground from where I was at that point. I was pretty close to it. So not a big deal there. And, but I didn't want to carry my gear and really heavy pack. And I didn't want to deal with that. So did a whole bunch of inReaching for a while, then brought my oxygen back out and started sucking on that just to kind of calm down even more. And then, uh, went up and packed the reserve away. Packed the wing away and gotten some shade, but beneath the tree that was pretty nearby and, uh, just waited for the posse to show up. And so huge thanks to Nate and Farmer and Willie and Brian for rallying together and coming out and, uh, and hiking with me and hiking my stuff out.
And then I went immediately to the hospital a couple hours later because we were on the other side of the pioneers, which here in Sun Valley is quite a long ways away from town and went into the hospital. And just to be safe, they gave me a CAT scan and I don't have a scratch on me. I'm super bruised and very, very sore. And today has been kind of hard getting around, but all in all, everything went as good as you can possibly hope. And I just wanted to share the takeaways. I think at least for me were, I think there's three things that really helped the outcome. One, all the training I've been doing, certainly that helps with the durability. It helps you be able to bounce and take hard hits like that and hopefully get lucky as, as I did.
And the second was having the inReach, you know, after the pound, there's no cell service out there that just changed my world. I would have been in totally in a self-rescue situation. I guess I could hit the SOS, but it meant I could talk to my doctor, uh, my friend who's a doctor and I could talk to my wife and through messaging, obviously, and then rally the crew and give them my lat and long and position, all that stuff. So. That was, that was really terrific to have that. And yeah, having the oxygen certainly helped. That was, that was, that helped ease things. So I think it's, this is four things. And the fourth thing is, is the SIV training. Um, I've done a ton of it over the years and tons and tons of stalls and stuff. This was really an acro course that I just did with, with Dylan Benedetti. And he's actually who I interview and he'll be on the next show in a couple of weeks, just as the race starts, the next one that comes out.
But that was really terrific. And. I like to think I would have done the same things before this training, but it certainly helped me really understand what was going on from A to Z, you know, the whole thing, just the, the height awareness, the time awareness, the, the situation that the wing was in, what it would take to fix it. Then knowing I didn't have enough time to do that and just reacting, I think for the most part, pretty much the right way. You know, there's obviously more to every accident like this. But there was definitely this support of70 cetera team that, that was as good as And I and it's a, I know what's happens very often that happens before bac I've thought a lot about, well, what was my head space in before, long, those four minutes from lunch to hitting the deck, you know, I feel pretty confident that. You know, I wasn't tired, it was feeling really good.
I was really psyched about the day. I didn't see any red flags in the sky or the wind or what was happening. And, uh, pretty. Pretty reasonable terrain. It was certainly. Uh, I. I think well within my skill level, I think I got a combination of kind of katabatic wins and a real ripper and was just very low. So wrong place at the wrong time. I will keep thinking about that. If I come up with other something else, then I'll, I'll bring it up. But yeah, I just wanted to share that pretty wild day, pretty short, intense flight. I remember having a four minute flight that ended like that, but it all worked out. So yeah, one more, one more coin comes out of the luck jar. Let's get into it. Let's enjoy this. Enjoy this wonderful talk with a friend of mine and incredible pilot and someone you'll be watching a lot here very shortly in the X-Alps, Maxime Pinot.
Maxime, it's a, it's a real treat to talk to you. I've been following your incredible flights that have made me really jealous. We haven't had weather like that over here this year, but you guys got that magic last week in April. That seems to be the thing, the last few years. So congratulations on a couple of 300s. You had that wicked one out over the flats and then a big, huge FAI that must've been quite thrilling. I saw your videos and pictures and beautiful. It's that time of year when you got all the snow in the mountains. And so congratulations there. And, and thanks for coming on the show.
Yeah, thank you. Hello. Hey, that
looked, that looked, that looked really fun. I thought Maxime, maybe kind of a fun place to start is just to talk a little bit about the race coming up. We've been, we've all been yo-yoed all over the place the last kind of month and a half with, you know, okay, is it going to get delayed? Is it going to get canceled until next year? I don't know about you, but I have found that quite hard to adapt to with all these unknowns. How has your, how has your training been going and how has that been affecting you and your team?
Yeah, it was a very strange year. Yeah. It was very difficult, mostly during the winter because we knew that it would be tricky still with the COVID situation. And it was very difficult this year when you had maybe a little less motivations because of, of the, of being tired or something like this. It was sometimes difficult to push more. And maybe it was even more important to have the team behind you because not knowing what will happen is it's really difficult for long preparation like the X-Hubs.
Yeah. I have found the same. Do you have the same team as you did in 2019 or is it new?
Yeah, exactly the same. So it's, I'm really lucky with this because everybody looks really happy with the, with the race again and they know what to do. So it's, it's comfortable.
And what do you think about the, the route? You know, you're there in Annecy, you and I had a little quick discussion that, you know, we we'd heard through the grapevine before we, before we knew the course, or at least before I, I knew anything about the course that it was going to be a big change. I didn't anticipate this. I just thought, you know, maybe a different main waypoint instead of Mont Blanc or something, but what do you think about the course?
Actually, I was a bit like, yeah, I didn't know what to think about it before we, we knew the course because it's, yeah. And the, the thrill is also to go to, to Monaco, but I quite like it quite a lot. I think it's quite interesting. And I'm, yeah, I'm happy because to have done it in 2019, because if it was my first time, I would have been quite disappointed, I think.
Yeah. I, I, I have no, no love for, for Monaco. So I was, I was pretty thrilled to, I know that's not a very sustainable attitude. You want to get there, but in 2015, I got there and I wasn't very impressed. It's awful hot. It's awful. A lot of,
a lot of people, a lot of people,
concrete down there. So it's, I, I quite like that they're, they're keeping us in the Alps. I think it's going to be really fun. Really. I think it could be very hard if we don't get a good flying weather, it'd be tough, but it's at least it stays in beautiful places the whole time.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Monaco is not, you know, not the best place. So yeah, for sure on this, on this side, it's, it's way nicer and, and I really like it also. And, but just, yeah, I think starting in Austria and finishing just right on the sea was, was nice, but, but for sure it's, it's new thing and, and yeah, it's exciting also. So I have no problem with the, with the new routes. Yeah.
Yeah. Cool. Maxime, we did this little, you know, I reached out to a bunch of the athletes and teams right after the last race. And I, we, you and I had a nice chat about that. And I believe I asked you this question because I kind of asked the same questions with everybody, but I I'd like to ask it again after, you know, you've had almost two years now of pondering and thinking and, and coming back to the race, you were, you were certainly you, you gave Chrigel a hell of a run there in the last one and coming in as a, as a rookie and you'd done really well in the X-Pyr. And you're certainly one of the main favorites going into, to this one. I'm just wondering after you've had more time to think about it, what has changed?
If anything in, in your run up to this race in terms of physical training or scouting or any of the things you've learned, or maybe the, the, the technology, uh, what, you know, in terms of apps you're using or what has, what has changed for, for team France this time around?
Yeah, quite a lot actually, because, uh, on the physical side, uh, I really dig, dig different things. Like, uh, I have a new trainer, but, um, yeah, I was keep, I kept training during the two, two last years, quite a lot. So, um, yeah, not to lose any, anything from what we did. And also because I know that I'm quite young in the endurance sports. So giving two more years is, is a lot finally. So, um, and in more in the details, um, I've done quite the same preparation during the autumn. Uh, with a lot of volume, but quite low intensity is just to, to build a good base, but then it was quite different because, uh, I decided to find a new, new trainer and I was quite training on my own during autumn.
And then I just met with, uh, Matthew Jack, maybe, you know, him is like, uh, four times the world champion in, uh, in, uh, skimo ski mountaineering. Sure. And, uh, he gave me a good contact with, uh, another trainer and, uh, we have really good relationship now with, uh, his name is Emilio. And, uh, yeah, we, we changed quite a lot of the preparation I'm doing during the winter. We had quite a lot of intensities also. I'm doing quite a lot of, uh, excessive, excessive skiing. So it's one of the, the thing I'm doing a lot during the winter, which is very good for the shape. And, um, and then, uh, we went back more on volume during, uh, February and March and during April, I really, we spoke a lot about it because I wanted quite a lot of time to fly, uh, because I know how much it's important in the preparation.
So we went back to intensities. So, so I had more time to fly. And, uh, and now the last leg is, uh, is, yeah, we have two, two more weeks of quite high volume of training, and then it will be mostly tapering.
And do you spend quite a bit of time in the gym? Do you do much strength training as well?
I don't do, I don't do so much. I do, yeah, maybe mostly core training and also specific training, uh, for the legs on the, on the home trainer. So on my bike, so with, uh, with low repetition, but I, I strength. So. So it's the main thing I'm doing on the strength side, because, uh, I must say that I'm, I don't like it so much to be at the gym. So yeah, I'm doing probably the minimum, but, uh, on the other hand, I'm, I'm quite a lot outside and it's what I like.
Maxime, speak to me a bit about how, how you approach the race in terms of goals. I had a quite interesting, I've had quite an interesting few years thinking a lot about flow. And, uh, you know, you, you, you do a lot of comp flying. I know you were all geared up for the worlds, which got canceled in, in May. I was hoping to fly with you there, but you know, in 2015, things went pretty well for us. Uh, and I, I, I thought, you know, I going into 2015, I really had no idea if I would just be eliminated right off the, I just had no idea where I would sit. I hadn't done any big, I'd done a lot of hike and fly and a lot of mobile, but I've, I'd never done anything like the XL. And so, and I wasn't, you know, quote unquote, an endurance athlete of any kind.
So I, I really had no idea and things went pretty well. Uh, and, and so I really went into 2017 more with, uh, too much finishing goals. You know, I, I want a place here and I, I, I, in a sense, didn't put enough weight on the process. I still trained really hard, but I think I put too much pressure on myself and then in the race. I made a couple of very bad early mistakes that were all flying related. Uh, and, and it really, you know, as often happens in the race, the weather gets you in the back of the pack and that was it. And so I working with Thomas there, hello, you know, Chrigel supporter, I I've learned to change the goals and, and change the process and think differently about things, but how I'm wondering how I'm trying to get to mindset with you.
How. Do you want, where do you want to be mentally on June 20th? How do you, where, how do you, how are you going to approach each day?
Yeah. When I'm looking back to my best performances, most of the time there is a kind of, um, yeah, I don't, I would say like, um, I'm quite distant from the goal. Uh, I feel that I'm prepared because I'm the preparation is the key for sure. So I, I give everything in a preparation. I'm focused, but I like when the event is coming to be quite distant from it. It's a bit strange, but if I'm fully focused on it for sure, I will, I will just do bad. It's quite strange, but if, if I'm obsessed with it every day and, uh, just until the race it's, it's not working for me, it's, it's because it's key.
I have, uh, most of the time I can put a lot of pressure on myself. So I prefer to know that I'm doing a good preparation, but try to just to, yeah, enjoy the, enjoy the preparation, but don't think about the results. Yeah. Because if I do so for sure, it's bad.
And Maxime, what does your preparation look like in terms of the course? I, you, you posted something quite a while back where you were, uh, you were kind of studying the, the, the valleys and the, the flow and the valley winds. And that's this kind of thing. I had an interesting talk sitting next to Chrigel in 2015, right before that race started, where he's, I said, Hey, how is it? I'd been over in Europe for a month and a half, almost two months actually, before the race started scouting and learning the course and going around. And I was surprised to hear him say that he doesn't scout at all. Uh, he doesn't, he doesn't like to have a preconceived notion of now. I don't know. I'm talking about in-person scouting.
I don't.
I don't
know what he does in terms of Google earth and, and routes and skyways and X contest and all that kind of thing. But, uh, you know, he didn't, he didn't like to go three weeks before the race and look at one of the turn points, for example, because it's very different weather. There's more snow. It's, it's just, it's not what he's going to see on the actual day. And he doesn't want to have any, any preconceived notions about how to get through an area. He wants to do it on the day that it happens. And fly that weather, which I thought was pretty interesting. What, what's been your approach to scouting and learning the course?
Yeah, I don't go scouting for sure. Uh, yeah, nothing last, uh, in 2019, it was the same. Um, and, uh, I think I'm really more efficient just walking on the maps on Google earth and everything, just thinking about all options. Yeah. Just, just we're trying with, uh, my imagination and talking with Jeremy, what we can do and take a diff different scenarios. And, um, we are very much efficient like this and, uh, and I, I don't see the point to go in person on the places, uh, because, uh, it's a lot of, yeah, you lose a lot of time for me in the preparation because it costs also also a lot.
Yeah. Some money. If you go for one week. And, uh, and as you said, like in 2019 now, maybe, maybe this year there is even more snow. So, um, it's a complete load, a load of time for me. So yeah, I don't go scouting for sure. Yeah. But I, I spend quite a lot of time on the maps. Um, like, yeah, I would say at least two hours a day and just being really, yeah, really, um, like close. Right. From the race, like really friendly with it, I would say, or, uh, I don't know the word, but yeah, intimate with the race and, uh, and just try to think all, all the options.
Yeah.
Well, you have a, I'm sorry, I have to just, uh, you know, I'm so fascinated with the race. I'll, uh, we're going to switch topics here in a bit, but just a few more about the ex Alps. Do you have, you know, if you're, if you're say it, the Han and calm turn point or any of it doesn't matter, and you're going to the next one, would you have potential, uh, routes already preloaded into your phone? You know, it's just to give you reminders when you're in the air or are you just flying the sky just to the next way point? You don't have any of that in your phone.
Yeah, I will. I will, uh, well, um, I'm really working hard and creating files so I can use them in the air. Um, yeah. With the, with the old options. But also like some, uh, some trails and, um, some takeoff, every takeoff we can find. So it's on my phone already and they can, yeah, it allows me to, to take a really faster decisions in the air. So yeah, I like to, yeah, to do it before. And uh, because, uh, yeah, you can improvise really well when there is a lot of preparation behind. And, uh. Sure. Sure. Because if, if you, you are in the sky and, and just thinking about in terms of air condition for sure at one moment, it will not be enough.
Hmm. Do
you have a weather team? I know a dedicated weather person, you know, sitting behind a computer feeding you information.
We are working on it. Last year it was like you, it was Laurent Valbert, uh, was working with us and, uh, yeah, we are still wondering what we will do this year. Uh, we, we don't know yet because, um, it's cool sometimes to delegate some work, but sometimes it's very cool also to do it yourself because, uh, so yeah, I'm still at the moment, the weather, I have one or two people in mind and, uh, but I, I'm not sure at the moment what I will do. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Ditto. Um, cool. Well, switching gears here a little bit, Maxime, I don't know, the timing of this was, was kind of interesting and I'm not, not even sure you're aware of it, but we did a podcast several months back with Malin Lobb who lives there in the same zone as you do. He's an instructor for Flyo and, and you, you circulated, uh, uh, a blog post kind of thing, um, that was, that came out about the same time and it wasn't refuting at all anything that Malin had said that the advice we heard from Malin was all terrific, but it was, it was kind of the, in a, in a sense, the other end of the spectrum, which was, yeah, it would be terrific.
And if, if I'm not paraphrasing this right, correct me, but you know, it would be terrific if all of us, you know, had the money and the time and the ability to do a ton of training, you know, a ton of SIV training and training over the water and learning everything that Malin talked about that's, that's can be so important. But the reality is very, very few actually do, you know, unless you're on the French team and you have, uh, plenty of time and money, and this is kind of your job that that's just not the reality for the great majority of pilots in the world. And so you're, you were saying, you know, the emphasis should be on just better decision making and keeping your wing open. Can you, can you dive into that a little bit?
Yeah. I'm also an instructor, so I have a pretty good idea, which, well, yeah, how much time people have if flying in how much money also they can spend for it. So, um, yeah, when I, when I, I saw like articles just about, yeah, you just have to do acro and do cross country and you do, I can play and everything. It's not the reality as you said. So, so yeah, for sure. The, um, I think, um, we, we have to be. Be more practical with people and, uh, for sure, SIV is a, is a very good tools and that's not the question, but I've learned like that then during the years that, that the volume of flying is very, very important in quite different conditions and it gives the pilots like, um, a good feeling with the air.
And that's way more important in my, in my opinion, because learning, I think when you are able to, yeah, to say, okay. This place, it can be tricky. It can be turbulent before you, you just actually get there. You are already in a mode that you are, you are activated. You are like ready to, to fight if it's not good enough in the zone. So, and you are already in, in the mode, like if I took a collapse, it's because it's because of this or it's because of that. Yeah. It's more, more important. Yeah. To, to. To be really comfortable in the air and to, to think about the, the places you will get in.
It's the only thing and just, would it be turbulent or not? And, uh, and I'm ready to fight if it's not a good place, but, uh, yeah, just to de-analyzing of the condition is the most important for me.
Do you have, do you have any kind of tricks or strategies for dealing with irrational fear? And what I mean by that is, you know, we have this. You have this fight or flight response for, for many people that, you know, when you get in a tense situation, uh, many people just can freeze up or get really scared and we all experience fear. Uh, and certainly in the ex-Alps, we were usually, although last year was, was quite mellow, uh, for most, but, you know, usually we're dealing with a lot of wind and we can, like you say, we can get ourselves in spots that are pretty tense. Do you have anything you specifically do? Uh, for, for dealing with those moments?
Yeah, for sure. One, one of the thing, the most important for me is the volume of flying, uh, when I'm not flying enough, and it was maybe the case before the experience, 2008, 2018, I was really bad in the air. Maybe, yeah, I was feeling very, very bad because I didn't feel enough during spring. So, um, at the beginning of the, of spring. Uh, condition, um, I'm flying quite a lot. Like, uh, in April, like I flew like 70 or 80 hours this year. So, um, so yeah, that's, that's quite a lot for me. And, uh, that's really the base for me. It's like building endurance.
It's, uh, when you are running, if you don't run enough, for sure, you will not last during long runs. It's the same in flying. So you have to sometimes go. Even if you will not do 200 K 300 K, just go flying because the two or three hours you will do, it will, it will count in your, uh, in your volume. And at the, at the end, for sure, it will make a big difference.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. This is a hard thing, I think, for many people to explain, but talk about gliding. You put out, you put out a great video on thermaling recently. That was, that was terrific. But. I find that teaching someone to glide is, is tricky. It's so instinctual, but what, what are you thinking about when you're take, take me through the three parts of, of kind of flying that thermaling, gliding, and planning. It take me through how you kind of approach each of those aspects.
Yeah. The thermaling, um, it, it's also quite, uh, for me, it's really related to, to volume because thermaling must be really like, yes. Yeah. Really not automatical, uh, in the end, because it's the moment where you plan what you will do next. So it's, I see really a big difference for myself at the beginning of the season and middle of the season, I can thermo without thinking too without thinking in the middle of the season. And at the beginning, I'm just wondering where is the core and everything. So, so I just need a good volume too, to be really comfortable in. thermal and one of the things which is very important thermaling is is to have the eyes everywhere so i think to find the right clue for your for your positioning is really important and for sure the most important then is to have a plan before you get to cloud base or to the top of the thermal because if you just hit the cloud base before before just you made your plan in your plan you are really late so so yeah i'm trying to to collect the information when i'm climbing so i'm collecting the information for me is the altitude of of every layer so i try to to make like a sounding of the of the air mass when i'm thermaling which yeah at which layer is better which layer is is quite
yeah is less good and um also the wind and the inversions and everything i try to have as many as many parameters as i can and then i can do a plan before i eat cloud base and then the gliding mode is of course there is a part where you plan in thermal so you try to you will go you try to yeah to draw the line between you and your and your goal or the next thermal and you try to to find the right placement regarding the wing the wind the clouds and everything because if you just go straight most of the time that's not the most efficient even if it can works very well but uh it's not always the the more efficient and after there is also in the gliding there is something really important is to be relaxed because uh most of the people they they are just a bit fighting with the wing and they are not completely relaxed in the harness and most of the time the pilot gliding the best are very relaxed they can let the wing just fly and it's it makes really huge differences in the end also choosing the right speed is also very important
using your speed bar correctly yeah
using the speed bar also to control the pitch but also just having the right speed i know myself i'm sometimes a bit too i go a bit too fast most of the time so i try to work on it because after i'm showing the thermal to the others so i try to also to find the right balance yeah that's that's it so yeah i having the the right the right speed is quite important so i
i wasn't planning on it but i'm trying to do it i'm asking you this but because you talked about speed uh i we i did a podcast recently with Robbie Whittall and as we were nearing the end actually i'm not even sure this was in the show it was just we he and i were having a chat and he said you you know you know why creagle's getting you guys right and i said well yeah for all the reasons robbie what do you mean there's a lot of reasons there uh and he said no when it's when it's on he's cracking he's he's really flying fast when it's that kind of a of a day i mean he's really flying fast when it's that kind of a day i mean you of anybody knows how to fly really fast but i have found it incredibly hard in a race like the X-Alps to not be somewhat conservative even when i know you shouldn't be if you know there there are days where you don't have to be that conservative but the the penalty for for bombing out in the X-Alps is quite a bit higher than a comp or something where you know really it just doesn't matter that much i mean you might you're not going to get the score but you know comps come and go or the X-Alps is something we work so hard at do you have i don't know have you thought about that is that something you're you've changed in terms of training or your mental approach coming into this one
yeah actually i'm quite i quite like the condition when it's quite bombing and the the sky is uh when we you have quite a lot of cumulus i i quite like it because uh it's what i do quite a lot and flying fast you can learn it only in world cup competitions and uh what what i'm saying to to the people who want to be performance in i can fly is to do quite a lot of comps because for sure you learn from you learn a lot from the best and what you learn in world cup for sure is is a big advantage for for the i can fly races it's it's very very important so i have no no big deal with flying fast because it's what what i like to do so most of the time my problem is to try quite slow when when it needs to be yeah slow down and uh it depends on the pilots because i would say most of the cross country pilots who are only doing cross countries they are uh really like they will not land for sure
but yeah if if they fly like 20 average and uh with the except wing flying 25 27 average is already good per hour is already good but it's a big big difference at the end of the day so for sure if it's bombing and you don't take advantage of this in yeah in like three hours you are 20k behind so yeah it's uh yeah it's not big deal for me this but it's a big deal for me but uh yeah it's the opposite way which is more difficult it's
a good problem to have i think yeah um the you you had some big flights this spring i think it would be wonderful for the audience to hear how you plan so before before takeoff rewind us back to to what you know because the last time we were going to try to do this talk uh you said yes i could do it in the next three days but one and then sure enough i think it was tuesday or wednesday you you did that so you obviously saw that coming that was friday it was several days before i think and but i i think it would be great for the listener and and go into detail what what websites what forecasting tools what are you using to identify the day and then the launch and then execution take us kind of through that
yeah yeah it's quite a long-term work because uh the weather forecast is like it's always difficult and um now i know my my place around quite well so when i see a situation you know a weather situation coming i can already say maybe there is something can happen now so i will be more focused on the on the forecast and i'm using like three or four
three or four websites like meteo blue and uh velivol and uh and some other last soaring meteo is also amusing but um i would say then that the most difficult sometimes is that most of the time these days like the the perfect day is in between one or two other days and you have to choose the best one okay you can you can give a chance to all of the them but uh it's difficult in term of time and and also of because sometimes if you fly 10 hours but it was it wasn't good enough you are a bit tired so next day it's a bit more difficult but
yeah after it's to choose the the right day and most of the time it's the first day of this period which is the best and so we gave it a try yeah it was friday and it was the good decision in the end but for sure we had a lot of lot of failure before like i remember like i remember one day last year we we saw like two very good days coming and the first day we decided to just trim the wing for the second day and the second day was was shit and the first day was just bombing so so yeah the weather forecast is uh is always and i'm also quite i'm speaking a lot with jonathan jonathan maran because he's always
in the good plans also it's the good cross country plans and he's a really good pilot and yeah sometimes we can we can speak like two or three hours the day before we are quite crazy with this so so yeah in
terms of just planning the route and deciding on the launch and where you'll go and what you'll do yeah
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we've made less last year we made we made 300 out and return and uh i i remember i spent like my all day on this on this flight so yeah it's it's kind of kind of uh of work yeah
i've had both success and failure in in that regard in a couple different ways where last summer i had a flight where I really had to get back to the truck because it was a very remote part of Utah and Idaho, you know, hardly any roads and no one on them. So I retrieve would have been impossible. I didn't have anybody to, to drive retrieve. And so I designed a, an FAI that got me back to the truck that, you know, at times I would have been way over a 24 hour walk to get back and, and it all worked out. And those, that those times are, are brilliant. But other times I've had, when I put so much planning into something and okay, this is the triangle I'm going to fly. And then that's not the day I'm given.
It can take my brain a while to switch to flying the day and not my desire, which is a saying we, I got from Nick Greece many, many years ago. Talk to me about adapting and, and, and changing the idea. Was this, was this FAI that you guys did? Was it basically what you? Mapped out? Was it, did it go down as planned? Okay.
Yeah. This, this one was really mapped because it was for the, also for the FIA record. So this one was map maybe, but we, we did also, we just go, go through all the turnpoints we plan, but we went also a bit further because the conditions were really bad, really good. So yeah, we just took advantage. I think. Yeah, totally of the day. But yeah, we, we go through all the, all the, the white points, but when it's not about the record, I, we, I always do a plan, even if it's not big cross country flying, I'm always doing a plan for the day because I don't like to be in the air and have no plans. Of course, sometimes for, for different flights, when you go flying with friends or anything, but most of the time I'm always having a goal.
Uh, just so technical goal or root goal or anything, but I don't like to go flying without planning something. So I have a, it depends on the condition, but when it's quite good condition like this, I like to stick to the plan as much as possible. But of course in the air, if at one moment it's not possible, I'm switching. Uh, but, um, also having this. Yeah. This goal in the end. Instead it's giving sometimes you, uh, an extra like motivations and, um, and you can overpass some difficulties and it's very, it's a very good training also because, uh, for sure you can't plan anything, but if you try to stick to the plan also, it can bring you really high motivation.
So yeah, it depends always, but, uh, yeah, I like to do plans. Yeah.
Yeah. The, the, the flight you did out over the flats. When I looked at the, the, the, the track log from that, you were really low most of the time. Um, was that a, was that kind of a go to no flight or was that also planned? Is it seemed, seemed kind of low odds, but, but you made it work well, but was that something you also planned or was that, Hey, I think we could make this work. Let's go out there and just see what happens.
Yeah. I think just, uh, these days, the, the thermal were quiet. Yeah. Uh, far from one another. So, so it was just between, between one, between the thermals, it was like maybe 10 K or more in, uh, in the, in the glide. So I was always going, uh, quite, yeah, I was getting low always. So low
save, low save, low
save, um, and at the beginning it was very tricky because, uh, also. Yeah. It was quite, uh, you meet at the beginning and then it improved quite a lot in the end, but also at one moment, uh, there was an airspace during like 60 or 70 K I couldn't climb over 1,300 meters and, uh, and the cloud base was, uh, one, 1,900. So for sure it was, uh, it was big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and behind me with the, with the radio and they can, uh, I think Stefan and Jonathan, they, they can call the, the airport, the little airport and they give them the, the clearance.
Just after me. Nice.
It's good to have, it's good to have those friends that you fly with.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, maybe they were playing like 40 to one hour behind me. So I nearly. Yeah. Uh. So, uh, when I knew that there was no problem with the, with the airspace, I was already 10 K before the end of the airspace, so it was a bit late for me, but, um, yeah, I actually, it's one of my strengths to, to find the thermal quite low. I know I can, I'm quite good at it. So, so I'm not very stressed in these situations.
Um, yeah. Yeah.
So can
you, can you dive into that a little bit more? What do you, what are you thinking when you're, when you're starting to get low? How do you, how have you found success with low saves with, uh, you know, what kind of mind frame do you get in? What are you doing? Technique technique wise that helps that
actually I'm, I'm a lot working with the clouds of course. And, uh, I'm, I'm always aid edging in the direction of the, the best place regarding, regardless. And after I'm working a lot of the, with the flow. So how the idea will, will flow in this place. So in the flatlands, I know that I'm very much looking to looking the forest and, uh, and the Lee side of the forest. I'm really working a lot with this and, uh, I'm quite confident in this. So confident enough that, um, yeah, I would say that. Yeah. It's a lot of, uh, perspective before I try to, to have different plans for sure.
And, uh, but I'm really thinking a lot about the wind and the clouds, not much with the, with the color of the fees or anything, but very much with the, with the wind and clouds for sure.
So trying to pick up on, on cloud streets and what's happening down course line well in advance. Yeah. And constantly kind of moving that, that way towards, uh, you know, hopefully a more successful line.
Yeah. And, uh, some pilots say, okay, when I'm really low, I'm not looking the clouds anymore. And I think it's a big mistake and, uh, I'm always having an Ironman. So, so I know that some, at least looking in the right way.
Yeah. I love that. That's great. What's something. A skill. A skill or just something you've learned. From another sport. Cause I know you, you know, you do a lot of touring and a lot of cross country and I'm sure biking, all kinds of other stuff, but what have you learned from something else other than flying that's helped you become a better pilot?
Yeah. For sure. A lot. I think, uh, I'm a big fan of sports and, uh, in paragliding, we don't have so much the physical pain, but we have the mental pain. Yeah. And, uh, and I think, uh, to, to have sports just was a spot that combined both. It's also, it's also very interesting because you, you manage different things and, uh, but sometimes I read thing. Paragliding is, is a bitch with this, the mental pain, because, uh, it's, it's like very, it's something very, very like you don't find it. It's, uh, it's, yeah, I don't know how to explain to people who don't fly because, uh, sometimes they think, okay, you are just sitting in a, in a harness and you take decisions and blah,
blah, blah, but, uh, that's, that's kind of, uh, when I'm, I'm flying 10 hours or 11 hours, like the day Friday to two weeks ago or the 300 K the day after I was like, I just slept. Yeah. And, uh, so it, yeah, it's to have sometimes in sports like, uh, different, uh, issues you, you are more adaptable, but, uh, I'm a really big fan of, uh, certain sport like biathlon, uh, sports that connect to activities like, uh, in biathlon, they connect, uh, shooting and skiing, cross country skiing. And I think we can find, um.
A lot of, yeah, connection with them because they are like trying to, like trying to connect to things that are complete, completely different as we are doing also in I can fly. Uh, we are connecting endurance training or endurance sports with, uh, flying and it requires really different kind of skills. So it's quite, yeah, it's very. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, my inspiration is from this kind of sports most of the time. The, I was looking, yeah, during the winter I was looking out, they were training. So how much time they spent training for the shooting, how much time they were training with the skiing and the, and the balance is quite interesting.
One of the most valuable pieces of information I got was from Tom Payne. I went and sat down with him, you know, he did the race in 2009 and then supported John Chambers. in 11 and 13. And he told me that, you know, your group needs to have kind of a crisis management program or a, you know, a conflict resolution program. And it was, it was valuable in that we just, it was fun to think about. And, and our, our resolution was just, okay, we, we identify the mistake, talk about it, let it go and laugh, you know, just, just, you know, it had the race has to be fun. It's not worth it if it's not fun. So let's have fun with this. Um, and then this ties into, uh, one of my talks I had with Thomas Thurlow, this, this winner in the kind of preparation
is he said, think about it at some point in the race, you're going to make a mistake. And imagine in the past, one of those mistakes, you know, say you bomb out in the middle of the day, and now you've got to hustle to get back up to launch. And you're stressing because other people are pilots are in the air and they're, they're leaving you behind. You need to have a plan for that. You need to have a, you know, you need to make it a game. You need to consider, okay, how is this an advantage? How is this an opportunity right now? And it's been interesting to think about that. I'm wondering if you have, if you've thought about that, or when you think back to the last race, uh, when you've made a mistake, what's your mental approach to, to that going into this one?
And also just normalizing. Normal flying as well, you know, say on the 300 day, you know, if you had bombed out and your friends made it happen, how do you approach that?
Yeah. Um, yeah, I've done quite a lot of mental training since 2019 with a, with a friend of mine, but, uh, for during the 2019 race, it was still difficult sometimes to get back from some mistakes like, uh, or mistakes, or sometimes I would say, like, uh, different timings because sometimes timing in the XF is really difficult and, um, and, uh, yeah, I remember like when you are 40 minutes behind Chrigel and then you can, you catch the, you catch the thunderstorms and he's, he's, he's away. You have one, one day like behind after, after this little timing difference.
So this moment were really tricky, but, uh, also, uh, during the, I, I'm quite lucky to have, uh, for my best friend in the team. So, so they know me really well. And, uh, sometime when I'm not happy and, uh, I'm being like, uh, a bit annoying. So they know how to, to handle me. So it was, it was still working, even if I was not very, uh, comfortable with this moment, but we can be completely comfortable with them for sure. Um, but I learn quite a lot since then, um, because we, we worked quite a lot on, uh, on managing the emotions because, uh, I'm quite, I can be quite emotional and I'm, I, I worked quite a lot on this.
I was going to ask you how, in, in what way, when you say you're quite emotional, is that just, you're up and down, you know, you, you, you're, uh, you get pissed off and, and kick your helmet or what, what kind of emotion do you mean?
Yeah, it can be that. A few of my helmets have some scratch on them.
Yeah, it's, um, I can, uh, yeah, I would say that, um, in this situation, you, you just start focusing only on the mistake and, uh, and the idea is to, to accept it quite fast and just to, to, to be able to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to look around because most of the time, just, uh, you just keep looking at it and you don't see the opportunities around. So, so yeah, in this situation managing, okay, you are angry, but, uh, you can manage it. You don't go completely mad. It's okay to go angry, but, uh, you don't have to go completely mad and still be, yeah, enough focus on what you have to do to, to find the opportunities around.
And, uh, that was quite difficult. And it was one of my problems that, uh, during my, uh, yeah, during the competition, because, uh, what is quite interesting in the competition, normal competition, um, is that it's long competition because most of the time it's one week. And, uh, in this week, sometimes you do a bomb out and I, it was very, very difficult for me when I was bombing out the next day to be again in a good mood and, uh, and to, and to fly well. So, yeah, it was a big work I had to do.
Do you, can you, can you give us any specifics of, of how you started figuring that out and were able to kind of turn the corner? Cause I, I've had comps that have not gone that way, you know, goes good, goes good, goes bad. Can't get back to good. Yeah. Almost like falls apart, just put more and more pressure and more and more pissed off. And, uh, yeah. And I've, I've been able to recover it too, but I'm not sure I can, point to anything specific that helped.
So, yeah, I think it's quite personal for people, but, uh, me on my side, uh, we, we've, we worked quite a lot on, uh, some, uh, auto hypnosis. I think we, we do this, we say this. So we, we try to take some, some like, uh, um, good, good moments and we try to make them, uh, appear in this, these difficult situations and, um, because there are different plans because it depends on the situation, but, uh, uh, yeah, there is, uh, there is this way to do it when something is going a bit bad in the, in the, in the air, for sure.
You try to, to change the, uh, the emotion by, with this. And also when, when you are back to the ground, when you have a moment, when you can relax, we also worked on just letting the emotion flow and then you can just accept it and you, you go, yeah, you, you keep going after. And, uh, because when you don't accept some, some emotion, sometimes they just stick in you and, uh, and it's not good. So it was a big work. We did like, like, uh, on the, the Polish open last year, um, because, uh, kind of a difficult situation before personal situation.
And, uh, I talked with, uh, her name is Natasha. So I talk a lot with her how to manage it. And I was really happy that, uh, the six week comps went really well because we, we just together, we, we succeeded to just, yeah. Okay. There is something bad, but you can let the emotion flow. And then in the air, you, with the little tricks, you can trick a bit your mind. And then you can let the emotion flow. And then you can trick a bit your mind and it will get better. So, um, so yeah, it's, it's kind of very interesting.
Do you use much visualization in your, in your preparation or in your lead up? I mean, in other words, do you, when you think about this year's race, do you imagine flying off the Geisberg and heading South to Wagrein and imagining the thermals? Do you, do you do any of that kind of thing?
Yeah, I think it's, uh, it's quite natural. Sometimes you just, you're just, uh, thinking about the race and, uh, and yeah, it starts, start to imagine things. And, uh, I think it's very important for the motivation, uh, because if you don't dream about it, I would say maybe it's, it's not worth, not worth it. So yeah, it's kind of this kind of dream, like it's, it's strange things, but for me, it's very good situation. And I'm sure, uh, like my, my heartbeat is increasing, increasing when I think about it. And it's a good, I think it's a good motivation because if you don't, you don't have these vibes, it's kind of, yeah, strange.
Sometimes the, maybe the goal is not, it's not what you are looking for.
Yeah. And there's, there's been quite a bit of recent data there. They've, they've studied this and it's, it seems that the brain doesn't, isn't very good at differentiating. Between the two and dreaming is the same as reality to the brain. And so if you actively dream, it's, it's, you're actually learning, you know, about
this, about the piano. Yeah. It was very interesting. Very, very, very
interesting. And they, they did, uh, one of the books I read lately on sports psychology was there were a lot of interviews with Olympic athletes who, whatever reason got hurt or, you know, sustained some kind of injury when, at a time period where you don't want to get hurt, you know, it's a very physical, something very physical. And, and then, but they just replaced the physical training with visualization and didn't lose anything. They were, sometimes they had the best results they ever had was just being, and they replaced the training with visualization.
Yeah. There is some example of this, that people coming back stronger after some injuries, like, I think about Kylian Jornet, because he was injured during the Piedra Monta, like two years ago, something like this. And he, he came back really fast and stronger. So, so yeah, I think we, sometimes we, we don't take enough consideration. We don't take enough into consideration the recovery. And, uh, when you are pushing always your body, sometimes the recovery is, uh, is the main key.
Mm. Mm. Yeah. I think, I think rest and recovery is, is radically important for all of us, especially during this, this phase. This
is maybe the main things I learned this year because, uh, like maybe, yeah, end of January, I was feeling very tired. And, uh, with my coach, we decided to, to cut like during 12 or 13 days, I think was very long. And, uh, yeah, after, before it, all the intensities is what, it was only pain. And I said to him, okay, something is wrong. Something is very wrong. So we decided to cut. And then after we went back and I was feeling way stronger. So, so, so yeah, it relaxed me with the idea to rest now, because I know that it allows you to, to step up.
Yes. Yeah. That, that's, that's been our approach as well as you, you, you, you can, you can go really hard to get to another. Level, but then you've, you've got to let your body, especially, you know, I'm, I'm older than you, buddy. It's, you know, you've got to, you got to let it recover. It's just, I went through the same thing this winter where it was just, I'm used to being sore all the time, but this was just my, my trainer's Ben. He's one of my supporters in the race. He met him last time, but I just said, Ben, I'm, I'm exhausted all the time, you know, getting the work done, but without a smile that you want to be, you want to be smiling, but on the calorie front that, when I did a podcast with Maxine Bellaman, he, he surprised me with his, you know, his research showed that we can burn as much as four to 5,000 calories in a four or five hour flight.
You know, so you, you're burning a lot of juice with your brain when you, when you did these three hundreds and you're in the air, 10, 11 hours, how do you prepare for that side of it? What have you got on board for food? How do you approach your food? And water intake, both before you do the flight and during the flight.
Yeah. Sometimes it's difficult for me, this, this side, because I'm so focused in the air that I can just like, I forgot to, to drink, to eat. So in this kind of flights, I just try sometimes to, and also because you are flying really fast most of the time. So it was kind of difficult, but I know that I didn't, I didn't eat enough for sure, because I eat like three or four, like a bar during the flight. But yeah, I have some, some energy drink in my, in my camelback, but that's not enough.
And, and it's very awesome. My coach is not flying. And sometimes it's difficult. No, it's not difficult. It's difficult because he understands, but, uh, it's difficult to, to speak with him about the, about the fatigue, the fatigue of a flight, because it's very, very like, uh, unusual to another sport. It's something different. It's yeah. It's much more about, uh, about mental, mental fatigue. Sure. And yeah, so I'm quite, I don't have any, a lot of advice in this side, because, uh, most of the time, most of the time I'm, I'm forgetting to it.
It could be hard when you're, when you're, when you're, when you got the throttle to the max and you're, you know, every glide you're, you're using a ton of bar, it's pretty hard to grab a sandwich and have a, have a bite to eat. At least for me, I don't have that move very well, but, um, Maxime, you you're an instructor and I know you do, you do, uh, your tandem pilot as well. Take us to the beginning. What, what do you impress on your students? What should they avoid? What should they focus on when they're, when they're just learning?
Um, they have to focus on their motivation because, uh, everybody is not looking for the same thing. So, so the most important to be in security in this case, to, to work on your motivation, why you are here and, uh, and what you want to do with paragliding, because, uh, it's the first thing. And then, uh, when I'm with people who want to go a bit more with performance flying, most of the time I tell them, okay, the way is long, but it's nice way. But, um, always, most of the time they want just to, just to go quite fast in the progression. And, uh, and that's not the right way to do.
Uh, even if we've now the, I'm also training, the, some young guys and it's a bit different with them, but, uh, because they are in, uh, in the structure with the pole France and, uh, and everything. So it's kind of different, but if it's people want to go to performances without, uh, without any structure, it's more about, um, yeah, make every step quite correctly because we see a lot of people thinking that paragliding is quite easy finally. And, uh, after the discovery, how much, uh, how much it can be powerful in the air. And, uh, and what I want to do with them is to avoid the moment that they are blocked by the mental fear or something like this.
Of course, in the progression, there is always this kind of thing appearing, but I also saw a lot of people just having a bad experience at quitting from paragliding. So I don't want this.
Hmm. Well, what's something, it doesn't have to be recent and it doesn't have to be, uh, you know, it doesn't have to be, uh, you know, it doesn't have to be, uh, it doesn't have to be in flying, but what's something that has come up along the way in your progression, uh, that has kind of blown your mind, you know, any kind of aha moment or any kind of, you know, coming to Jesus, just, Holy cow, that was, that was something I, I just something big that, that, that happened that has impacted either who you are or, or you're flying for the better.
Hmm. Um, yeah, it's an interesting question. I would say, uh, for sure. It's when, when I entered my first World Cups, uh, for the flying side, because, uh, you discover a new world, uh, of possibilities. Um, and there is a before and an after World Cup, uh, because, uh, you think you, you start to enter the national cone. You think, okay, I'm not so bad. And you arrive in the World Cup and, and, and in every glide you are, they are out gliding you or out firmly you or everything. So, so then you have to work quite hard to, to, to reach this level.
So, um, so for sure it's, it's kind of, yeah, it was very strong, a very strong feeling to, to learn from the best, uh, because, uh, yeah, I have, uh, I think, um, I thought about, uh, the super five, my first Superfinal in Columbia was, uh, was very nice experience. And, uh, there was Griegel, there was, uh, uh, um, Donini and, uh, and all the legends, legends like this. And, uh, I, I was thinking, okay, I have a lot of work. And, uh, yeah, it was interesting. I was only like 20, 20 and, and it was, it was very, yeah, I have a really good memory of this.
Was that 2000, uh, see, it was the 2012 year. So does that, was that 2013? I think, yeah. Russ got second, I believe. Right. That was the fire flying.
Yeah. This one. Yeah.
That was my first, that was my first Superfinal. I'd only done one World Cup before then, but yeah, that was, uh, that was very humbling. I could stay with the guys one, thermal and then bye-bye. It was a very new pilot. It was very humbling. Very good.
It was very, very nice. Yeah. It was very good experience for sure.
Yeah. Great. Oh, fantastic. Maxime, the listeners, I'll have to piece this back together. Cause I don't think the listeners, uh, I mean, a lot of people watch the race, of course, but this is something that was, it was quite, I went back and pieced together. Avery, I've been watching the profiles for, for the, for the 2019 race to, you know, to watch Chrigel and see, cause during the race, you can't see much, uh, what's going on with the others other than they're ahead of you or they're behind you. You had a really interesting day, day three, uh, you caught Chrigel. He made a bit of a mistake going into Lamoose. You caught him, you guys hiked up together to the launch that it was kind of blowing up. Uh, you know, I was back kind of crossing the end Valley at that moment.
Uh, and you know, there was big cells your way. So I think this is one of the things that, that the viewer can't see in the live tracking. They don't see the weather that we're dealing with, but you guys had an interesting, you both took off together. You were thermaling together, you were flying together and suddenly, you know, just going before rounding the bend and going up the, I call it the land deck Valley. Cause land deck is there. I don't know what that is actually called, but, uh, Chrigel just, slope landed really quick and you kept going. And in my mind, what you did was the more logical choice because the Valley winds would have been going up the land deck Valley. It was late in the day. You would have gotten a nice push, but he landed, walked up very, very short distance and he ended up getting, I didn't look at it exactly, but on a five or 10 K on you, what did he do there?
That was what, what happened there?
Yeah, it's, it was one of the highlights of the race for me. Um, what happened is the, I outclimbed him in the, over the takeoff. I was like maybe 200 meters above him. And, uh, and it was, my decision was to, to go as fast as possible and in the, in Valley, in the land deck Valley, because, uh, the cell was coming from the West, if I remember. And, uh, and it was also, the wind was blowing quite hard. Um, like maybe 25, 30 K. And, uh, I didn't, I didn't think about even, yeah, I didn't even think to, to land because, uh, for me, it was like a very, very tricky situation where, where you have to, and also it was late.
So there was also the deadline. And, uh, for me, landing was not an option. And I decided to go in the kind of blind mode. After I was firmly on the Lee side, very strange, strange things, but it was working. And after, when I realized he top land and just after went in soaring mode, uh, before entering the land deck Valley, I think, okay, it was a very good mood move, but it was very bold for sure. And, um, yeah, for me, it was like, I don't even think about it. It's, uh, and I, after I was walking and I saw him just passing over me and he landed maybe like five minutes before the front came in.
And, uh, and it was like, if five, 10 minutes after it, and maybe it wasn't working. So sometimes you need this kind of decision. It was a very good decision, but it was so bold and, uh, yeah, still, I was thinking about it. I'm still thinking about it, but what I could have done better and, uh, probably I would have done the same. So yeah,
just different planning and was working for him for sure.
Yeah. I, you know, he talks about this, he talks about gambling and if you, if you gamble eight out of 10 times, as opposed to three out of four, even if you don't get the eight out of 10, you're going to win, you know? So, so just gamble, a lot and not with risk. He's not talking about safety and risk. He's talking about those kinds of moves. And it was just interesting on, on the Avery. I, I couldn't, I, again, not seeing the weather. I couldn't make sense of it. What you did seem to make the most sense. And it was just, I, you know, he does these moves over and over and over again. And it's, it's fascinating that, and so the next one I wanted to ask you about is the next day he won the race in my mind.
Yeah, for sure.
And he, you, so you were both together in the Landeck Valley and you, you walked a bit that morning, you know, west towards Davos, and then you both started going up your own ridges. Again, he was five or 10 K ahead of you. I don't have this exact, but he took off. Well, you were both at the, basically the same height. You were, you had clearly both stopped to get ready to fly. He took off a long time before you did. And he scraped around, scraped around real, very slowly. He didn't make much, but by the, by the time you flew, he had a good jump on you. And I'm wondering again, what, what was the, was it just, you just weren't feeling it? It wasn't on, it wasn't, you just thought it was too risky?
No, no, because we were late on takeoff and the takeoff was really bad. We just found a really bad takeoff and, uh, and we were a bit late and the, the place we were heading was quite bad actually. He was on the right place on the right takeoff, just, yeah, maybe seven or eight K in front. And, um, and I wasn't ready when the, the condition kicked off. Uh, finally, finally, uh, he landed on the way to Davos. So it allowed me, allows me to, to take back maybe 20 minutes, maybe 20 to 30 minutes. And in the end we are, I think what I was looking last time, it was like, 45 minutes behind him in Davos.
Um, so yeah, for sure he's in the right timing and, um, and yeah, this, this one, we had to push quite a lot in the morning on the flat and then at the takeoff, but for sure it was really messy on this takeoff. No, no really good place to take off. And this one was quite tricky.
Ah, this is, see, this is the thing that the live tracking and the Google just doesn't, doesn't give you.
I knew
there were, there had to be some reason. I thought Max seems right there. You can practically see him. Yeah. Why is he in the air too? Yeah. Okay.
Yes. Yeah. I was so pissed off because, uh, we were like, like walking in the, in the fucking little trees, like maybe one meters high, but, uh, we couldn't find, find any like good spot to, to take off. And it was like this during, yeah, until 1030. And what he was in there, like 950 or just before 10. Yeah. And I was so pissed off. Yeah. I
bet. I've had plenty of those. I know exactly what you mean. Um, Maxime last question. This is potentially a really hard one or maybe a really easy one. I don't know, but it's very general. Uh, why do you fly?
Uh, because I don't find any other excitement like this, uh, elsewhere. So it's the, for me, it's the best feeling in the world. You can't find anything good as, as this. So I'm flying for this because every time I'm in the air, it's, uh, it's kind of, yeah, the best thing in the world. And, uh, then, uh, I'm also like very, yeah, very interesting in the, in the performance process. And, uh, I want to know what I can achieve and how I can achieve it. And it's a very good drive. Yeah.
Maxime, it's a treasure, man. I can't wait to see you in, in Austria. I hope this thing is a go. I've certainly had my doubts, but it seems like things are moving in the right direction. And so, uh, I can't wait to see you and, and race with you and, and enjoy the Alps for a couple of weeks. It's a special treat to be able to go do this. I'm very, very grateful. So, uh, thanks a lot. And thanks for sharing all this with us. And best of luck with the remainder of your training. Stay healthy. And yeah, we'll see you in a bit.
Yeah. Thanks, Kevin, for, for the interview. Yeah. We see each other in, in the game.
Yes. Thanks.
If
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