Thank you for watching. I'm now recording this opener a day before the U.S. election, so I have no idea what's going to transpire there, but hopefully we will all get through this chaos and life will go on. But this episode is all love and light. It has nothing to do with politics, of course, and I hope you enjoy it. Ferdie van Shelven, Ferdinand van Shelven is from the Netherlands. He's, until pretty recently, lived in the flats. And which is amazing to watch him compete in the X-House. He's competed four times. His first was in 2011.
He's never done worse than seventh. Squeaked me out, beat me, and it just got me in the final day of the 2015 race. And then he did not compete last time in the 2019 race. He was hanging out with Tom de Dorlodot and some of his other friends and wanted to just see what it was like to sit on the sidelines. But he did not compete last time in the 2019 race. And so he decided he couldn't do that again. And he's back for his fifth in this one in the 2021 race. So this episode is mostly about the X-House, but also about how he's been able to pull off such extraordinary moves and do so well being from the flats. You see, he's grown up in the Netherlands and now he lives in Sion and makes snow and in Verbier in the mountains of Switzerland.
So he's in much. Better positioned to train and fly in the mountains. And so I'm sure he'll be even a sharper weapon coming into this one. So, but always a fan favorite takes incredible lines as an awesome attitude. His supporters, his wife and Cole, and they just had a little baby. He's got a five month old at home now. And so we talked a lot about risk and how that's changed his approach and yeah, just how he, how he, how he's. How much he loves the X-House. And as we dive into the 10th edition of the X-House, I thought it'd be fun to have them on the show. So I had a lot of fun with this one. It was always great to sit down and chat with 30. I love this dude.
We had a chance to train together quite a bit before the 2017 race and a awesome guy. So enjoy.
Pretty so cool to have you on the show, man. I appreciate your patience and putting this all together. And I didn't, I didn't know that you lived in Sion now. You're a, you're a Swiss resident. What's it like being in the Volus?
Yeah, it's, it's changing. It changed a lot compared to Belgium where I used to live before. Like, yeah, it's great to be in the mountains and be able to, to train and, and fly and do all the things that you can do in the mountains. And it's, yeah, it's a big change and it's, yeah, I like it.
I understand you're, you're working on the snow guns, your snow making. Was that something you, you learned in Switzerland or did this, is it something you brought over from, from Belgium, Netherlands and that area?
Yeah, of course. It's not really into Belgium stands to try to make snow and everything.
They make ice rinks, I guess.
Yeah, yeah. Well, there are a few like tiny. Ski slopes, but when I was a kid, I was really fascinated by snow. And so when I was younger, I was trying to make all these snow guns in my garden, try to make snow in the garden. And then around, I don't know, when I was 18 or something, I went to France and worked there one season in the skiing area. And I really liked it, but then I had to work. Well, I didn't have to, but my family. My family had a business in Belgium and some people left and then they needed, well, they didn't need me, but I felt like I was needed. And then I decided to move back to Belgium and work for them a few years.
And then when I came back to Switzerland, I thought, yeah, maybe it's a nice job. You're always outside. And I thought, yeah, why, why not try this? And so now I'm, how do you say? The. How do you call this? The chef for the guy who runs the snow cannon. So the manager, the manager. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's nice in three years time. It's a, it's pretty cool. Yeah.
I know that, you know, historically you've been at the sport of paragliding and flying for 25 years or something. Is that right? You've been at this thing that you've been at it a long time, but it, right. You got into this when you were really young, right?
Yeah. When I was. Yeah. Right. Around 10, I think 10 or 12. Yeah. Uh, my father, uh, was, well, started to paragliding because he always dreamed of it. And then they had this outdoor sports company and then they did like, uh, yeah, beginner courses for paragliding just to get a sense of what paragliding was. And then, uh, I always said, can I go with, and, um. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, I would, you know, just fly on the, on the flat, on the flat part. And then my father would hope me that I wouldn't fly off too far. And then, and then I was when I was 12 or so, I think I really started, um, flying from, uh, in the Alps and then, then back in Belgium from some small hills and everything.
Yeah.
Yeah. How did you get the, how did you get the mountain experience that you brought into your first ex-Alps? And, and. 2011, were you at that point, were you a pretty experienced mountain pilot or were you just kind of winging it?
Yeah. It's really weird. When you live in the mountains now, you think like, how the hell did I, how the hell did I do it? You know, because like all these crazy winds, you get like phone and everything. You don't, well, you've heard about it when you live in Belgium, but you don't really understand how it works and everything. And when you live here, like people are actually always talking about this. Yeah. And, and, and they're always busy with this. And then when I used to go to the Alps, I would just look on like some standard, uh, weather forecast and then look if there was any wind or something and then, uh, it looks fine. And then I was just offline. And usually it worked pretty well.
I mean, sometimes you, you make these crazy ideas about this phone wind and everything. And then of course. At a certain point, it can be quite tricky and dangerous, but, uh, I remember once during one X-Alps, I, there was quite a lot of north phone, but I flew like 50 Ks. It was a bit turbulent, but I was on the lee side of the, yeah, the, the, the mountain and then coming out of the valley, uh, towards Lake Como. I think it was all the sudden like this wind coming down from San Morito.
And then I was, all of a sudden I was turning more to the right, crossing the valley and all of a sudden I was flying backwards and I thought, what's going on here? And then looking down and I saw the cornfields like going, they were almost flat, you know, because there was so much wind down at the bottom. Like, oh shit. So then I turned around and flew back a little bit from the valley I was coming from because I thought, yeah, well there it was fine. So it should be fine. And then. At the end, I landed flying a bit backwards, but it was still manageable. And then some local pilots from Italy, they came in and said, are you crazy? Why are you flying with these conditions? There is 80 kilometers an hour wind in this valley. And, and, uh, yeah, but it was just because I didn't, I didn't know actually, but I still flew 50 K.
So, and, and I landed.
Yeah. That's a win in the X-Alps. That's a good day.
I know. And then there was funny because Toma, he was flying also, uh, also from Belgium. He didn't really knew either. And then, but he was flying on the, on the other side, like on the north side. And, uh, actually that day we flew quite a bit and then we, a bit later on, we, we found each other again and we gained quite a few places that day because like all the other guys didn't didn't fly because it was, yeah, fine. And you were not. I was not supposed to fly, but actually it was fine. So yeah, sometimes it can help you. And sometimes, uh, it's nice also not to know everything and just feel or look at the sky and, and, and do whatever you think is good or something like this.
I think.
Yeah. And this is, I mean, this is definitely some of the things I really want to talk to you about probably just a little bit later. Cause I, I, you seem to have a really good feel for. Following your instincts. Maybe, I don't know if you'd frame it as kind of flow kind of entering flow channel, but you've, you know, you clearly have a real gift for flying, but for, for this race as well, you know, your, your first race was 2011. You've competed four times. This is, this will be your fifth. You're you've been top seven and in every race you snuck me in the 2015 race, which I'll never forgive you for. Yeah. Yeah. You put a good move on me that second to last day. And I was actually, I, I don't know if you and I ever talked about that, but it was, you know, I was sitting under this chairlift, basically contemplating that I just nearly died in, in, I'd gotten stuck in really bad value wins and didn't really recognize it.
I was in the Lee and, and, uh, and I just, the last report I'd gotten was that you and Nick were, were grounded and you were way behind me and I didn't really have to worry about you. And then my team didn't have internet. And that whole. The Vars area and whenever that another town South there is. And, uh, and you had crossed the Valley quite, it made a quite sexy move and crossed the Valley to the better side and the West facing side and just flown right over my head. So I, I would, I didn't know any of that. I was just sitting on the ground. And when I found out I was so furious, I just thought, Oh, got to catch him. I've got to catch him. So I had a really nice flight that evening. And then I ran all night trying to catch you. And I, I just imagined that I could. But you're also very fast on the ground and I never even got close.
I remember they told me already then, but, uh, yeah, but it's also, I mean, I always wonder why I end up so well, because, uh, of course I do train a bit and, and, and everything, but, uh, it's always about decisions, you know? And like that day, I thought I was flying on that same side as you, I was flying on this East faces. And then all of a sudden. And I thought, yeah, well, you know, and there was this wind coming from the awesome. And then there is this so planes flying on the, on these West faces there. And then I thought at a certain stage, uh, well, and it was, I don't know, around one o 'clock or something that I've done certain stages would cross to the West faces. And also because of this value.
And then I, when I crossed to the West face, it was like super windy. Also at this side, there was like a. I got stuck there and then like, I couldn't get around the corner on a mountain because the wind was going. Yeah. Not really the right direction. And so then I walked just, I don't know, maybe 500 meters to, to get across a rich. And then I was on the other side and it was like super windy. I thought if I was, I wasn't in the race, I wouldn't have took off. But then I thought, well, everybody has seen this video of Chrigel where he takes off and then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shot in the air. And then I thought, well, probably it's going to happen the same. And then afterwards I'll be fine. And so then I tried and then, uh, yeah, it was a bit the same.
Like I, I took off there and then I got up, I think 1500 meters without, yeah, making one turn or not going backwards or forwards. And then just, I went up like this 1500 meters and then all of a sudden there was less wind on the top. And then I could, yeah, I started flying again forward. So yeah, actually it was quite easy. But a bit scary at the same time. And I got the same thing. So the first you have this valley coming from Brianson and then afterwards is this other valley from the river. And there I got exactly the same thing. Like I was flying, I was super high. I don't know what the ceiling was that day, but I think 4,000 meters or something.
And then I got in the lee side of this mountain in front of me. I was full body. I was pushing and I think I was, I only had one K to go and I don't know, maybe a thousand meters above this mountain. And then I just went down minus 10 meters a second until I just flew over this, this stuff, but maybe two, 300 meters above it. I thought if I don't make it, I end up in one of those crazy valleys in the back there. And I really didn't want to. So I was really pushing, pushing, pushing. And then I hit the wind. I was flying in front of the mountain again. And then the same thing, I went up again, 1500 meters straight up. And then afterwards it was fine again. And then I was flying towards, yeah, Calderfax and everything.
And there, there was a bit better, but it was a crazy flight. And then I remember at the end, like having all this wind, there was this valley going towards the sea. And then I thought there's probably going to be as much wind as this valley. So I don't want to land at the bottom.
The Isola Valley. Yeah, that, that is in training that night when I landed, uh, chasing you, it was very mellow, but holy cow. In training down there, I had some days that were terrifying. That canyon just funnels all that wind off the Mediterranean. It's just really windy.
That's what I thought. Yeah. But then like my supporters were way in the back because we flew so much that day. So I couldn't ask them if there was any wind in the valley. So I landed like really stupid in one of those side valleys instead of landing on the other side. I landed on top of a mountain or something, but I thought, okay, well, I'm pretty close to the, to the end. I'll just land somewhere in the side valley and then I walk all night and then I'll be in Monaco tomorrow. But when I walked back towards the main valley, there was like zero wind. And I could have flown maybe 20 Ks further. I don't know, like if I would have flown straight, but then I just landed in one of the side valleys just to prevent myself. And I was already been so scared by all this wind in these valleys.
So then I was just hiking and then there were two following me all night. And yeah, it was pretty funny. And then I remember like falling asleep while walking towards the beginning of the day. Like when the light just came up, I was really falling asleep while walking. And then Nicole was, my wife was telling me, I don't know how you do it. I'm falling asleep all the time. And you can just keep walking.
You know that at some point that night, about five o 'clock in the morning, I came up to you on the side of the road and I started talking to you. I was completely hallucinating. I just, I mean, you were still 12 K ahead of me or something, but I was completely asleep. I was walking just like the dead. It was like I was a dead person. And I kind of opened my eyes. Or maybe they were open. I don't, you know, but you were sitting on this bridge. And I walked up and I was like, Ferdie, do you want to come in? And I just, you didn't exist.
I was completely hallucinating at that point. I was out of my mind.
Actually, I saw you and then I told you, just get some rest, man. And then I get locked in front of you.
Oh, that was crazy. I actually had a really proper kind of breakdown. The next day, we got some beta from a friend in Australia that said, hey, somebody has flown this little hill, you know, that, you know, and maybe you could, you were nearly in pay at that point. But, you know, maybe you could climb up this and squeak it in there. And I was so wrecked. And we climbed. And, you know, it was like 100 degrees that day. It was torture. I hate Monaco. And I climbed up this thing and it was like three hours for, it wasn't a very big climb, but I was just smoked at that point. And my feet were mangled. And I got up to this launch and it was kind of windy from the sea.
Like the sea breeze was just starting to set in. But you could see all you had to do was, and that, you know, you got that really tight airspace there, but you could see all you had to do was go back, like go away from pay and follow the terrain back. And it was kind of a U mountain. And it would have brought me over onto the ridge and pay. And then, you know, there was clouds and it was real obvious what you would do, but you, I would have had to fly away from pay to do it. And I couldn't force my, I could just couldn't do it. I was like, there's no way. So instead I did the dumb thing and I just pressed into the wind towards the ocean and flew. I think I flew like five kilometers, you know? So I, so I climbed this big mountain for nothing and then flew five kilometers and I landed in this kind of like sewer river. It was really, really big. It was really filthy and really dirty.
And, and, and then realized, you know, when I brought it up on my phone, I still had, you know, by the Red Bull tracking, it was like three kilometers, but I had to walk like 14 kilometers, whatever it was, you know, cause it's up this windy road and tons of vertical gain. I had to go way up. And I looked at that and I just, in my mind, I thought I can't, it's not possible. I just can't do it. So Bruce pulled up and I just said, Bruce, I, I can't make it. And he said, oh, so what are you going to fucking do? You're going to, you're going to quit the X-Alps when you're 14 kilometers away. And he's like, he basically kicked me out of the car. He said, get going, you wimp. But you just, it's, it's crazy. The place that, that, that race puts you in mentally is, is really something else.
Yeah, no, no, for sure. But it's true that this last bit, yeah, it's, it's terrible. Like all these windy roads and nothing goes to, yeah, nothing goes straight. And then there's all these sparkly bushes everywhere, which really, yeah, it's terrible.
Yeah. We got, we got shredded going through that. There's a, there's a section where everybody else went to, but we, I don't know if we lost the trail or it's just like that, but Ben just got shredded. It was, it was, you know, just, he was kind of just grabbing these vines and yanking them out of the way. It's, it's, it's torture back there. Well, what was it like to sit out 2019? Yeah. You were, you were with Tom that first day. I got to chat with you a little bit in the car as it was raining and we were all walking at that point.
But I've all, you know, one of the reasons I signed back up this year was I just thought, God, it'd be torture to watch. Was it hard or was it, was it kind of fun to take a break?
No, it was actually quite, yeah, it was fun to see it from another point of view because you, when you, when you're in, well, of course I always see it as a, as a, as a, as a, as a big deal. Like it's a, it's a big thing to do this race, but when you're in it, like it doesn't matter. Well, when you, when your alarm sets off at three o 'clock in the morning or whatever, you're like, shit, there we go again. But then you wake up and then you start walking or you try to in the beginning and then after a few steps, your muscles, how do you say, like get loose a bit and then, and then all of a sudden you're walking again and then the day starts and then until 11 and then yeah, you go to sleep again and, and then you just keep doing that for two weeks and then you're, if you're lucky in Monaco, but like when you see it from, from like when you can take the rest, you know, when you're not in the race, like, uh, yeah, you hike up a mountain and then you fly a bit and then you think, yeah, well, it's fine for today, you know, I've done enough.
And, but then, and then I was with Toma and then he said, okay, just come with me. We'll hike up this mountain again and then we'll fly from there. Okay, fine. And then you do one more and then you see at six o 'clock already for me, it's fine now, you know, and then they still have to hike.
So you felt a lot of sympathy, I guess.
Yeah. You really think, wow, this is just crazy, but you're so much into the adrenaline of the race that you don't really notice the performance that you're achieving. Like it's, uh, it's crazy when you see it. From the outside, you really think, uh, it's crazy what, what you guys are doing. Actually, you don't, well, I don't notice it when I'm in the race anyway. Yeah. Really saw that from, from, from the outside like this, the, it's really something special. It's quite amazing.
Did you miss it?
Uh, yeah. Well, of course at some point I was doing some flights and then sometimes I, I did some stupid things. You know, even when I was just following the race, I thought, luckily I'm not in the race now, otherwise I would have been pissed or whatever. But, uh, no, yeah, of course I missed it, but it's different, you know, when you're not really in the race, you make other decisions and yeah, it's just not the same. And of course, yeah, I missed it. Otherwise I wouldn't have done it again this year. But yeah, you know, the feeling like every time when you finish this race, you think, I'll never do it again.
And then after a while, you know, you're like, oh, I'm not doing it again. And then after a year, you suddenly think, yeah, it's quite nice. Let's do it again. What's the hardest
thing for you when it comes to the race? Uh, if you take the whole thing, the, the, the training from the very beginning to the very end, what's the hardest part?
I think the week before the race.
Just the anticipation or the nerves?
No, because it just takes so much time. Oh God. Yeah. God, it is awful. It's crazy. On the stunt side and everything. No, I don't know, but it's also kind of nice. Well, it's nice, you know, like all the guys from the X-Alps, like almost all of them are competitive, but also really friendly with each other. So they, yeah, like we are chatting now, it's, uh, it's like that with every pilot and that's a nice thing about the race, but yeah, there isn't really a thing I hate. The only thing when I finished the race and I'm really, well, my worst experience was in 2011 there. I was really, we hiked so much during this race and then I think I was still young and just pushing my body to, to whatever my body could do.
Like my mind would just keep saying, okay, just keep going, keep going. But then it really took me like half a year, I think, to, yeah, to recuperate or how do you say this?
Yeah, recover.
Recover, yeah. It really took me like so much time that I thought, boy, this can't be good for you, you know? But I lost, I don't know, I think 10, 10 kgs during this race. Whoa. Yeah, it was like I didn't eat well or wasn't really prepared for everything, but it was crazy. Like I think in the race we had three days where we hiked, well, like one day more than 100 kilometers. And in two days, around 95 or something, I think I walked 850 kilometers that, that. Oh. It was amazing, yeah.
Do you have any, have you historically, do you have any foot problems?
Foot problems?
Yeah, like blisters?
No, not really, no. Like the, the, well, the last race I did in 2017, because it was so hot in this, in Italy, I was like, oh, I'm going to die. And, but, but yeah, there I got some problems. I got like, like tibia. I don't know. Oh,
yeah. Shin splints.
Yeah. Like I was really infected. And, and then one of my chilies was also really bad at
the end. Ouch.
But I think it was just because of the heat.
But mainly I'm doing fine with that. Only like during winter when I start ski touring and I always get some blisters on my heels. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to die. And then once they are gone again, then, then I'm fine. But no, usually I'm quite okay with the blisters. Yeah.
How has your approach changed between 2011 and then going into the 2021 race? I mean, obviously you've got all the experience, but did you have, do you have different goals now than you did? And what were, what were the goals?
Yeah. So I remember in 2011, my goal was to finish in the top 10 or, you know, in the top 10. And I was like, I'm going to die. And to reach, well, my goal, I don't know if it was a goal, like I hoped that somehow it was possible because I was really thinking that I wasn't up, you know, for this thing or what I would try, but I didn't really know what to expect or anything. And then, so I remember I studied the course until Chamonix, like I thought if I reach Chamonix, I would already be really happy. And then I remembered like it was two days before the race. Before the end of the race, I was in Chamonix and then I thought, shit, I haven't looked at the maps any further than this. And then I really didn't know where to go.
So yeah, then I was kind of asking to John Chambers, where are we going now? And he said, yeah, we'll go up here.
So yeah, I just thought if I reach Chamonix, I would be pretty cool. And then I ended up at the Col du Galibier on the, yeah, like the race. I finished over there because we already reached Monaco two days earlier, I think. I don't know.
Yeah, I think only, only he and Toma got in that year, right? Was that the 2011 year?
Yeah, it could be. Yeah.
Yeah. Col du Galibier is a nice place to end. That's beautiful.
Yeah, no, it was nice. Yeah. So that was my first race. And then the next one I thought, okay, let's do it a bit better. Like, especially for the nutrition, I thought I should, yeah. Yeah. I should have some, shouldn't lose so much weight during this race and then, yeah, more proteins to recover and more, yeah, I think I only lost like three or four kilos during the 2013 one. So that was more acceptable.
And has Nicole supported you in all of them?
No, no. Like in 2013, she came, but towards when I reached France. Oh no, a little bit earlier, like in Zermatt, I think she came.
But then I think you were already flying then in 2013.
No, I didn't. My first was 15.
No, so she, no, that year, like 2013, I flew from like the whole valleys actually. So I flew from Lufthansa all the way to Zermatt and then I did the same thing going to this back country to Chamonix. I
remember that really distinctly on, I was watching that race really closely. You made some wicked moves through there. You were, you were really fun to watch that year. That was, that was, that was an AYN 2011, but you, you had some really cool lines.
Yeah. Well, that was like a bit of luck as well. You know, I reached, I reached the, Zermatt and then I, and then I saw the cloud base was really high. And then I saw Manuel Nubo, I think. I don't know if it was that year. I think it was the year or the year later, but he was catching up on me and then, no, I think it wasn't that year. Yeah. Cause his first year
was, was, was my first year too, was 2015.
Yeah. Yeah. So that was the next time. But so the first time was with Alan Durogati, I think. And then like we both kind of saw there was, it would be the, the, yeah, the best, the best way to go. And then, yeah, so we picked that line and it was really nice because you, at the end, it's way shorter. It's shorter than the other one. So, so yeah. And then I ended up in Chamonix that night and then I saw Nicole from Chamonix and she followed us to Monaco. And then in 2000, well the next race, 2015.
Yeah. She also followed me a bit, I think there. Yeah. And then in 2017, she was my supporter. And now she will do it again. Yeah. So you
got to tell me about that. What's that like? I, I, I just can't, I, I love my wife to death, but I can't imagine doing a race with her.
Yeah. Well, I'm quite lucky. Like Nicole, she really likes the whole race and everything. And she likes all the, well, like also all the, the other pilots that are in the race and all the social or the social network around it. And yeah. And she's, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Like the, the, the first race is, I was a bit scared, you know, to, because then yeah, our relationship was quite young and, and, and I was also with a supporter, which had a quite a strong, how to say character. And then I, I didn't think they would match with Nicole's character, you know, like it would be difficult during the race. Yeah. Like she always told me, I want to go with you and, and support you and everything.
So like in 2017, I was still a bit before the race. I thought, yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure if it's going to work, you know, because like you're saying, it's not always easy when you're with your wife or, but then at the end it worked really well. Like, uh, yeah, like everybody had his task and then not the end of when, yeah, we didn't really fight during the race or whatever. So it was, no, it was pretty cool. And it, of course it's, it's quite nice. It's that the, yeah, the person who loves you most follows you during the race and supports you. And at the end there was a great experience. And so now we got a kid this year is now, uh, five months old.
Oh, congratulations. I didn't know that.
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's going to be more challenging this year to prepare for the race as well because it's, uh, yeah. Yeah.
That's time consuming. So will he come, will he come with you guys? I guess so. Or do you have grandparents or something?
Yeah, the grandparents were. Okay. We're luckily care of him. And, uh. Yeah.
And I think Tom's got one coming right before the race. His second. Yeah.
We were telling like, uh, what was it? Yeah. Before we were, we got the news that we were selected. I said, yeah. Uh, I don't know why, man. They didn't select me for the Excel. And he was like, no, why? I don't understand. And then I said, I don't know. They just said. They wouldn't select me this year. There was someone else that they took and whatever. And he was like, I'm really sorry about you. It's really weird that they did that. And then at the end I said, no, no, it's a joke. You know? Yeah.
There's, there's no, there's no way you're not getting that. You've been. You've been incredibly consistent and fun to watch your big crowd favorite. Um, yeah, I wanted to ask you about 2017. Cause it, I mean, you, you know, you, you've been top seven every time. It's not like in a way you had a breakthrough, but it seemed from the outside. I didn't have a very good race in 2017. I had made a really bad move early on. It really cost me, but the, it seemed like you kind of had a breakthrough in 2017. You just had a really solid race all the way through, even at the end. I mean, you know, again, it was one of those hard weather races and only two people got in, but you were right there and, and you had some wicked competition and some very fast people on the ground, but those kind of that the ends, the end was, was a lot of walking and running and the weather was brutal, but.
Yeah. I don't know. I think like, I don't really, I don't mind. Uh,
I don't mind walking really like in the, like sometimes it's a bit weird, but I always say to my supporters, try to convince me to fly because just sometimes I think, well, I'm just, I'm just hiking now and I'm just cruising along and, and then I'm going forward. I don't take any risks at the end of the day. I can do, I can do that for 80 kilometers and then I will. I've done 80 kilometers, but.
I don't mind the walking part. So if it, if it gets difficult, then I, yeah, I don't really care what I do mind is flying into really shitty conditions. So when I, yeah, when I get tossed around and whatever, like flying in the Lee all the time and I can manage that for, for a while, but then after a while, I think it's really worth it. And then. I'd rather be safe than sorry, if you know what I mean. So, yeah, it's not really a answer to your question, I guess, but, um, uh, yeah, I don't know.
I don't, I always wonder why I'm so consistent. Like, I really hope this year is gone. I'm going to do fine again, you know, because it's also a bit of luck. I mean, sometimes you. Yeah. You have to be well positioned in the beginning. Don't miss any good flying days. And if you do one big mistake on a, on a good day, especially now, the level is quite high. Yeah. You're, you're like all the way in the back as soon as you make a mistake. So I don't know how I do it, but it's really, it keeps, I keep amazing myself. Like I was four in 2017. And two. What's the. End like everybody, like all of a sudden got like, I remember one day I was really, um, I was going from, uh, Macu Naga.
I don't know if you know, you know, where to what was the turn point? Other side of Sam at the, the, the Italian side.
Yeah. The core Meyer.
Yeah. And then that day they expected, I think West wind, I don't know, 40 kilometers an hour. And I was really. Thinking no way. I'm gonna, you know, no way I'm gonna fly. Um, I don't want to die and I don't want to risk it flying every time into the Lee of these. Yeah. Huge riches and everything. So I thought, oh, okay. Well, I was now, I was crying actually at the beginning of the day with telling how to, how am I going to do this? It was like four times.
Yeah. Yeah. 1500 to 2000 meters, uh, Ascension like, and then the same going down because it's like all these valleys you have to cross, uh, hiking. And then I thought, how the hell, well, I can't do that. You know, I can't do 8,000 meters or vertical climate one day. It's impossible. And then at the end, I just, well, the first Ascension I had to hike and then I could fly the first one because there wasn't any wind yet. And then the. Next one, it was starting to get windier. And then I saw I back down and then hike back up at the end of the day, 5,000 or 6,000 meters. Yeah. But I just walked and then all the other guys, they, they were flying and I thought, okay, now they all gonna disappear, you know?
And, and, but at the end, like Manuel Nubo, he was really tired and got sick and stayed somewhere on the mountain. And I don't know what happened there, but. Uh, yeah, they, they, they made some mistakes or whatever. I don't know. And then I kept up with the other guys in front and then, and then, uh, some guys flew into the airspace because it was quite complicated there. So the, all of a sudden, like two or three guys kind of disappeared, disappeared in front of me. And then, and then the, the, the one day before the last day, I decided. I decided to try to fly because I thought, yeah, uh, I don't want to hike in this 40 degrees, uh, flats there in Italy.
So, and then it was flying quite well. And then I still, I still did a stupid mistake because one time was flying in the lead or like in the East face in the afternoon and it was going up, but not so much. So at the end I landed and then I lost, I think two hours hiking over this mountain. And if I just waited a bit more, I think I should, I could have made it, you know, it's just a bit more. Yeah. Peace or, or how do you say a bit more? Um, I was just tired, you know, so that, you know, just land and then hike back up. But otherwise I think I could have reached the Paul Grisham Bauer or be at the same level. I had one more mountain to cross and then I would be, and then I would be at this level and then it would have been funny because then.
Uh, yeah, it would have been another race again against him. But, uh, yeah, then I flew back out in the flats and then I hit this airspace and I start to, to walk from there. And I was just a few Ks in front of, uh, uh, Simon Oberaner. And then I called him, you know, the last day I said, okay, see him on your, I don't know. I was 10 Ks behind me, I think. Uh. What should we do? I can wait for you. And then we just drink a beer here and then we call it, uh, we call it a day. And then we finished the race like that. And for me, it's fine. Yeah. And then he said, yeah, he didn't really answer me. Like he said, I don't know.
So then we, we hung up on the phone and I was like, shit, he's probably going to run. So we were watching the live track all the time. And at all, at a certain point he started running. And then. I thought, yeah, well, he's just going to run one K and it'll stop again. And then he kept running and he reads like five Ks. Uh, he was five Ks behind me. And then I thought, oh, shit. I'll just running. So then we ran. I'll take for two or three hours at the end of the race. Just to keep that fourth place. It was like. And then at the end, but I was joking. You know, it's. when I saw him I was trying to kill him but just in a friendly way like why did you do that to me
makes
me feel even more ridiculous I had the exact same situation I was way behind you guys at that point but I was Michael Gerlach and Rick Brazina from Canada and myself were coming into Bellinzona and I pulled up live tracking Michael was on the other side and he was behind us at that point but Rick had flown and made a better move on me and he was like 2k in front of me so I knew if I landed in front of him I had him and I did I landed like 2k in front of him and I packed up and I called this was the night before so we still had quite a bit of race left it was that night and then the next day until 11 something whatever and I called him and I said hey please can we just be gentlemen and you know either finish this together or you know can we just walk I'll just stay in front of you but we'll just walk we don't have to make this a race I mean I'm in 14th you're in 15th like it doesn't matter you know and he said no you know I've had fun racing let's just race and so I ran a marathon that night to stay in front of him I would just stayed in 2k in front of him the whole time and then the next morning you know we both were lined up at 5 a.m you know because we'd already used our night pass and so let's just do it luckily we didn't have to do that but then I ran another marathon the next morning and it was just like god dude please just stop
just stop running so stupid it's crazy it's a crazy race well that was it but that was a great result and well back to the goals thing how do you you know from these four races you've had and in this kind of decade
I really thought okay let's train a bit more and then I did some serious flying in spring and being in the Alps really helped me also to get a bit more ready like every time I was coming from Belgium I always came to the Alps and I thought well I was a bit impressed you know the first few days yeah a bit impressed by the mountains and the rock faces and everything and actually living here in Switzerland I mean where we live yeah there are quite some high mountains and it's quite impressive sometimes so when I this time when I when I was in Austria I was thinking oh it's almost flatland you know like I had it all the other way around you know it's
there are nice green grassy hills and it's not so impressive so that really helped I mean it was psychologically it was much nicer this way
and also physically I managed to train a bit more so I was I was pretty good I think in 2017
and at least before the race I thought I might have my chances
and so that was good and then this year of course I'll try to do my best again but yeah as you know with a small kid it takes a lot of time I'll try to train as well but I don't want to overdo it as well you know so yeah I'll just do my best and then see and see what happens fly as much as I can and train as much as I can but it will be a bit less I think than than in 2017 yeah one
of the things that I've had a really hard time with in in all the races and I recognized this after the 2015 race you and I made pretty similar moves that day eight you know going into the Matterhorn and really jumped but a lot of people I went from eighth to seventh and I know you made a big jump that day too which really kind of saved I mean I it wasn't looking like I was even going to get to Monaco but that that's been that was a good day for me but I've had a lot of days where I really struggled with flying what I know is the right way to do it because it's way off course line and I start thinking about well what if I what if I don't do it what if I you know it's going to add 20k of walking and that kind of thing you don't seem very I mean again I I can't watch you in the race I don't know but I'm more judging from the 2011 and 2013 races when I when I got to watch you but you seem to be able to
maybe not take it so seriously you're able to make moves that in the air that that really work and not get bogged down into that
it's not it's not fear of death but fear of blowing it you seem to be very confident when you need to be confident I just
take the route whichever I think for me is best you know like I'm not I hate it or like at a certain stage it became where did Chrigel go like I I I!
I I
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
I on that day is best and then I'll just stick to looking forward and try to get to the next ridge and to this next mountain, whatever and keep going forward
that's actually what I really like about the X-Alps is that you I did some other hike and fly races which are really quick and then you have to go to one point and then hike and then do this and then go to another point and then maybe you can get some more points if you land in between somewhere it gets all really complicated sometimes and then in the X-Alps it's just, yeah, basically going from Salzburg to Monaco where you have to go through these several points but, yeah, it's going from one point to the next and I'll just, yeah, decide whatever is best and I always made these judgments myself like I didn't trust on my supporters or of course I always ask them
about the weather that day or whatever they think was best but once I'm in the air I'm just judging whatever I think is the best thing that day and I'm not so I can't say to my supporters what the hell why did you send me there, it was really shitty or whatever, I just make my own judgment and that seems to work fine, yeah How
much are you in contact with them when you're flying?
Not, yeah
Just when I have my doubts on valley winds or whatever like then I give them a call and if I like during the end or, yeah, I got some quite some surprises during some races where I really didn't like it down in the valley so just for to ask if it's safe to land or whatever but, yeah, during the flight I don't really doubt or whatever and just make my decisions during the flight and I'm not going to, yeah How
do you think about the risk side of it for you? I remember when we were all hanging out in Monaco after the 2015 race, you know everybody kind of had a pretty special story we were dealing with a lot of wind in 2015 that is a funny thing to me about the races how different each of them have been I mean in 2019 there was no wind, I never went anywhere that I couldn't launch which was very, for me, a unusual, very different race but so it didn't feel very risky at all but, I mean we had the bad weather in the middle of the race but it was you know, everything was real obvious, you know, it wasn't like you were flying a lot of fern or, yeah, but
as you've gotten older, now you have the five month old I mean this is a question I get on the podcast all the time you know, how does your how do you approach that side of it?
For sure it changes like not only because the five months old but also because of when you're young and people are telling you, we'll see when you get older you get more more scared about things and then you're like yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever you don't think it's gonna happen but for sure you
yeah, now I start thinking about all kind of things when I'm flying not really when I'm in this when I'm in the racing mode a bit less than when I fly for myself but because you have this adrenaline of the race and everything so you you push a bit more but for sure I'm way not that relaxed as Krigel was for example which yeah, he doesn't seem to care about anything but no, for sure this is changing like sometimes I'm flying along here, this big rock face and I think what the hell would happen if I get a collapse here and then pull my reserve and then I would be tangling somewhere on these rocks and it wouldn't make a difference anyway and then I start thinking about this but then the other day I was flying in the Swiss
well I didn't do the race but I was flying along with the Swiss open and then we were just racing from one point to another and then I was just really I wasn't even looking at the rock faces we were flying 4 or 5 thousand meters it was really amazing weather and yeah, huge glaciers and everything and you were just kind of, oh there's another guy here in front trying to catch up so yeah it's a bit of course the race helps you to eliminate a bit of those fears but of course you get them more and more you start to think more about life and everything but maybe it will help you to get there and then in 2017 I thought okay I'm going to do this race but I'm never going to take risks for myself so whenever I thought it wouldn't be good for flying I wouldn't fly after those two rainy days at the start
everybody was flying off in this fern wind and I I've seen some really bad things happening and I thought whatever happens I mean if I lose 10 places today it's better to break my leg or whatever so I was fine, I was hiking down the valley and I saw all these guys flying over me and I was having belly aches just by watching them so I thought it's a good decision and the same at Makuknaga when I was walking there I thought okay I have to do this 6,000 meters of vertical climb but whatever at least I'll stay positive this way and not feel uncomfortable in the air so yeah
that second day I walked all night I pulled my night pass right off the start which ended up being a big mistake so I was down in that canyon when everybody started flying through and I don't think I've ever seen anything that scary in paragliding that was just terrifying I mean I even called
no I forget the race director
not Kristoff but Jurgen the safety director and just said hey you better get the helicopter in here this isn't going to end well Benoit crashed but he didn't get hurt but man god that was ugly it was just really scary
well I'm 20 years old
yeah that was the end of his race yeah exactly yeah crazy does Nicole get nervous about that kind of stuff? does she see I don't know because I have this kind of agreement with my team that Revis who does all my weather Bruce in your days he's no longer with us unfortunately but they both know kind of what my limits are really well so if they figure it safe they'll put me okay here's your next launch but they don't really give me a lot of details because they know I don't want them I'll just be thinking about it all the way up to launch so they kind of know what to give me and what to hold back are you kind of calling all those shots or do you guys have an agreement along those kind of lines?
yeah that's the thing I was telling you before like all my supporters I got they they're great in supporting me but they're not the best pilots or whatever so they don't really know yeah whatever takeoff would be the best or like all these things are basically well sometimes they see on a map maybe you could go there or whatever but then I say yeah maybe but I prefer to go there so I make all these judgments myself so that Nicole doesn't really have to worry about that and Nicole isn't really worried about me either because I don't know somehow I think she trusts the decisions I'm taking and to be the good decisions and then
no she's really cool with that I mean she doesn't go like you're not gonna die today or whatever she's always really down to earth or
that's cool it's encouraging for me to hear as I think I've got about 12 years on you I'll be 49 in this next I'm 48 now but it's good for me to hear that because you've been flying longer than I have and that you have all those same reserve what have I collapsed in it because I get a lot of that and more and more I used to be much more able to handle risk and you know thought I was more
invincible of course than I do now but it is strange what the race does to your mind as I I've often felt I usually try to go over and do a little bit of training before and pretty much every year there's been some days that are just really pretty sketchy flying and they scare me to death as they should they're not really recreational flying days but that same if I had that same day in the race it wouldn't be scary at all it's weird you get in this strange and I also don't think they're actually even that risky either because you're just really dialed in and I I've had this theory lately that I wonder if our brains can only really handle so much psychological trauma and I think flying is often pretty traumatic and you know to but if you can get your mind to that next level it really is just an attitude is it isn't it it's just a different approach that for me at least the three races I've been in you get in that your brain goes to that point at the start of the race and it kind of stays there for 12 days it just kind of stays locked in where you just you kind of have it
no no for sure yeah like always the day difference in 2017 towards the other races like the other race I always felt like the last three or four days I would really be into how do you say into my element or I wouldn't be scared anymore or I just yeah felt comfortable flying like a good pilot would do yeah like Grigel flies all the time or whatever or I mean those guys are flying so much that it's just second nature I think and but I had this in 2017 I was I flew quite a lot in spring and then I was really already the first days of the race I was already you know and then I wasn't scared or I just felt okay let's fly and I wasn't worrying at all about any dangers or whatever so
yeah that makes a quite a big difference I think to be mentally strong
yeah so Fridie you and I did some training together before the I guess that was a 20 yeah before the 2017 race we had really cool flight from Slovenia from Triglav up back into Austria and but I think you as you probably know you know Grigel doesn't do any of that he doesn't he doesn't go scout the course beforehand I mean I think he scouts it with Google Earth and of course he's Grigel I mean he's flown all over the Alps there's probably not that many areas that he doesn't know but I was I was pretty curious to find out in 2015 that he doesn't you know before the race he pretty much just stays at home keeps training at home and doesn't go scout areas what's your viewpoint on that now after doing it four times and what will you do this year I
understand because you know you like for like we for example we did this flight and it worked out this way on that day but if you're there on another day with with a bit different weather you might take that same decision because he thought that worked but it might not be the best decision for that day what's important for him is that he takes the good decision on the good day so if you actually don't really know where you're going you just make your decisions on what whatever you you judge by the surroundings by the birds you see by the I don't know the clouds the the terminals whatever and I think it's a
it's always good it's it's almost always bad when locals come and tell you how you should fly because they always say oh no you cannot go there because it never works or whatever and then and then when you listen to them you end up listening to them and then you think okay I'm not going there because it's not working but at the end it might work if they just never tried it or whatever and if you think that they might be the best decision then that's what makes the difference between him and a lot of other pilots I think that he really analyzes everything for himself and then it doesn't matter for him if he's flying in the lead or if he's flying
behind other pilots if he flies behind other pilots he will judge the other pilots he sees in front of him to make the best decision from whatever he thinks to whatever the other pilots are doing but he will still make his own decision which will bring him in the lead again
yeah luckily he doesn't have to deal with following too much
not in this race but I mean in normal world jobs whatever he will he will not always be in front of him it's like I think he said it in one of his interviews like even if one of those young guys get in front of him then you still need to be able to fly in front and make all those decisions yourself because I remember flying with some guys like Benoit Utersi was flying exactly every single line that Chrigel was doing they were putting him on his GPS and just did exactly the same which isn't the right way because the day he flew there it worked but you might be one or two hours later and then it's not not the best line anymore and then I think
it's really important I mean your supporters are really important in this race but also it's the pilot at the end who needs to make the right decisions when he's in the air and you can't blame it on your supporters well at least you can't blame it either on your supporters I mean
it's your decision so you can't say why the hell did you send me up there it was really shitty or whatever so I think this is a strong point from Chrigel which makes him so good pilot yeah
reading it on the fly obviously he's the best at that Ferdi I'm going to ask you what is maybe an impossible question but I hope you can answer it when you think back to your four campaigns do you have a best and a worst experience I know there's so many of both but
do you
have one that really pops out
hmm
yeah I think the best the best was 2013 or 15 I'm not sure but it was I was in Grenoble Grenoble in English yeah Grenoble and then I made this really crazy line going south and then later on crossing back towards the main the main Alps or how do you say like like
down through Gap or something like did you stay with the St. Hilaire side for a while yeah
I flew on the so I flew this and then I flew over the flats for a little bit to go back to towards the Lac de Serre-Ponçon and then from there there was the Tour de France as well at the same time at a certain point I landed on a mountain I called my support I said yeah I don't know man it was really hard it wasn't working in the beginning I really had to fight to get up and then all of a sudden before crossing these flats I got like a thermal which I don't know some I went above the cloud base and there was another cloud base higher up and then I could cross these flats and then
I reached well Lac de Serre-Ponçon and I called my support I said it was really hard and I hope I can still cover some ground from now on but it was already six o 'clock or something and then I managed to fly over Lac de Serre-Ponçon and then yeah towards Saint André-les-Alpes and even further than that but there was already like in two hours or something I was flying like super fast there was this huge amount of backwind and in every west face that I would stumble on or almost north face I would be catapulted it was really really nice and then I ended up 80 kilometers from Monaco and there was a really great flight I think I overtook I don't know seven or eight pilots during that flight so that was really great like
I did a really nice flight then So
you overtook all the pilots that had stayed kind of deep you took the wide line yeah I remember that I remember watching that that was awesome It
was a bit of luck as well because I asked pilots in Saint-Hilaire what could I do and then in spring and they said yeah well sometimes we go we take this line and then sometimes we cross and then we go towards well deeper like you're saying and then I said okay I'll just try this line and it worked and usually it doesn't really work in summer because it's too stable so you know it was a bit of luck as well I was I just talked about this line to some local guys in spring when I was there and then and then I did it and yeah it worked great but yeah it was pretty pretty hard and I really did some low saves like where I thought
oh shit it could have been it could have gone really bad as well you know I could have finished 15th or whatever but yeah it worked out fine so it was cool
and then yeah my worst yeah landing in some crazy wind somewhere
hard to pin those down we do that a bit
yeah
like my worst also was when Thomas crashed in I think it was in 2015 when there was all these winds this east wind or I think it was yeah east we got a lot of east wind no
west no the west in 2015 was the strong west that's when he landed in the coal up there going backwards a million miles an hour
yeah and then I was already like fuck why are we doing this we have to fight so much and is it really worth it and then we took off from this place with Thomas and I was looking back with where is Thomas I couldn't see him and I thought yeah probably my eyes aren't open I don't know I couldn't find him anymore and then I thought yeah well probably something happened you know he should be there and then I landed on top of a mountain and I called my supporter I said what is happening with Thomas because he was just behind me and then he already crashed and I was on top of this mountain thinking crying as well like why the hell are we doing this I thought he was dead because we took off from
from a small ledge like we had 10 meters of grass and then there was this big rock face going down and then yeah I thought if he did something wrong on this take off I don't know what could have happened but then it can't be good you know he maybe fell down this rock face and and that's actually what happened so he tried to take off and then when he like he really had a short moment to pull up your glider and then turn around and then kind of jump off this cliff but he just jumped off the cliff with the glider a bit too much in the back and then so the glider stalled once he was in the air it wasn't actually flying yet
and then he like yeah stumbled down this cliff and luckily landed on a small ledge so he didn't fell down all the way but but yeah he was lucky there that he didn't hurt himself more than I think he just
had a small injury on his wrist or something but he finished the race there but I was really thinking why the hell are we doing this
yeah I mean in 2015 maybe that was a different year because in 2015 was when he pretty much got his face torn off I mean he had to he had to quit the race it was the same day that Michael Vichy threw his reserve but
that was still my coconut but I was talking about of course
I'm sorry yeah of course yeah yeah it's yeah you have those moments where you're like whoa it kind of resets what are we doing
next day I had this great flight from from there from the Newfoundland bus all the way to to Chamonix and then yeah and then I was happy again yeah
yeah yeah you have your ups and downs just like flying
Ferdi what a joy man I appreciate it and so psyched to see your name on the list again I knew you'd be coming back but that was great to see your name on the list again we got a lot of young whippersnappers that are going to be chomping at the heels or we're going to be chomping at their heels I guess more likely but it looks like a really well probably the strongest field yet and exciting to see what they give us for a course but really excited to fly with you again and spend some time with you again and race with you again so but thanks for sharing your stories it
will be interesting again yeah
we'll see we'll see it
always is it always is well talk again soon good luck with your training and COVID I mean obviously it's not looking that good right now for coming over even doing the race but COVID dependent we'll be seeing you in May or June see you soon yeah alright bud talk soon thanks Ferdi yeah see you bye bye stay healthy bye if you find the cloud based mayhem valuable you can support it in a lot of the different ways you can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher or however you get your podcast that goes a long ways and helps spread the word you can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media you can talk about it on the way up to launch with your pilot friends I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way and of course you can support us financially
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