Greetings everybody and welcome once again to the Cloud Based Mayhem podcast. You've got Miles this week because Gavin is out in the Nevada desert as part of a massive search and rescue effort for a missing pilot. He'll be back in a couple of weeks and hopefully with a good story to tell. But in the meantime, to fill the gap, we're revisiting one of our most popular episodes ever, an interview with acro legend and XC hero, Pal Tackett. Pal has been around the sport for a very long time, has been groundbreaking in developing some of the world's most astounding acro moves, has loads of good stories and a lot to teach us. So we hope that you'll enjoy it. Have a listen, learn something and stay safe everybody. Thanks.
Let's do it. Pal, so awesome. We've been trying to do this for a while, but I think you're the first person in the world I've met that's actually busier than I am. So thanks for making the time. It's kind of funny that I understand you're in Indianapolis. Let's start with that. What are you doing? You're in the wrong part of the world.
You might say that. I'm here for the Red Bull Air Race for the final stop of the 2000. As you might know, I'm performing paramotor demos at most of the stops since a few years. So it's the last one of the season, but I'm only here for six days. You know what? I knew you did all these demos and you did the performing, but I thought it was acro without a motor. I didn't know. So are you doing like full acro stuff, but with a paramotor? No, not really. You know, most of the... These events take place under quite some of the most restricted air spaces in the world, close to some pretty big airports. So the ceiling is quite low.
And I usually basically my show time is 10 minutes. So and that includes takeoff and landing. So there's no time to to climb out high for, you know, doing radical stuff. And I'm I'm usually just doing some basic aerobatics. And pull a long streamer and use my smoke and do ground spirals, do food dragging. And, you know, these areas are quite large. So I have to do some some here, do some there, you know, visit the different spectator areas. And what 10 minutes are gone pretty quick. OK, well, for those those who are listening and I want to get into the more recent history stuff, because I know since the X-Alps, you've been extremely busy.
And yeah. Oh man.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh
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man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Catch everybody up that may not be familiar with your history. Okay. Well, I'm 32 now, and I started flying when I was 16. I come from Hungary, Budapest, so quite a flatland country. And somehow got into acro pretty quick and put all my efforts and motivation and money into progressing as fast as possible, just out of pure passion. And, well, powered by this, I ended up competing in the World Cups, which I won three times, twice in solo and once in synchro, and finished once second.
I mean, quite good results. But then I kind of pulled out from that in 2011. But, you know, I was always, as well, a very passionate cross country pilot. But, you know, you never really saw me on the top of some high-level podiums, which is probably because I didn't really put so much time and effort into competing yet. But, as you said, I competed in the Red Bull X-Hubs twice. Most of the people probably don't even remember I did it in 2009 and finished eighth. And did it again with you this year.
And, well, I invented some of the latest, well, it's not really latest anymore, because since then a lot of new school stuff came in, in aerobatics. But basically I invented the foundation of nowadays new school acro flying, which was some new... connections, some... basically a new style of performing certain things. And the Sfera, Cork and Joker and Cowboy and Booster and this kind of stuff. And with Gabor Casey, we did the Infinity Tumbling in tandem in 2010,
which was quite a feat.
And what else? I also did, which nobody knows. Because it never actually got published. It's one of those projects that kind of disappeared in the archives. But I have a Guinness World Record in Tandem Infinity Tumbling, which happened in 2014, I think, in Argentina.
Did you go out of a balloon for that? Oh, from a helicopter. Ah, tandem. That was it. Yeah. Wow. Your passenger must have been thrilled. Yeah. Yeah. Did you de-bag or did you... It was a she. She. Wow. Yeah, yeah. And how did you guys exit the heli? Did you de-bag? Yeah, yeah. We de-bagged. Okay. Wow. That must have been exciting.
It was with Squash Falcon. She's a British... Oh, yeah. You've probably heard of her. Yeah. She covered... She did
a lot of stuff.
She did a nice story for Sidetracked with me on the last X-OPS in 2015. Ah, yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah. She's fun. Oh, wow. That's amazing. So how many did you get in the tandem record? Officially 140.
Amazing. Did she vomit all over the place or did she do okay? Ah, she did great. She did awesome. I mean, after the landing, she had to lay down for half an hour, but... That's not bad. Otherwise, she did awesome. Wow. Anyway, I will probably just publish the raw footage, so at least it's online in a way. Yeah. Well, what I would like to mention as well is I'm the creator of JustDuckRow.com, which is basically the largest website about aerobatic paragliding. It's already 11 years old.
And I'm quite proud of it. And I'm still working hard to develop it. It's just kind of tricky. I mean, there's a lot to do on the side, but I'm still really motivated to keep pushing this further. And despite that Facebook basically overtook all these community sites in a way. But I'm still working hard. But I still didn't give up hope. And actually, it's quite popular still, and lots of videos, and the forum is running. Yeah, of course. Everybody follows it. I mean, that's interested in acro.
So 16 years, so just after 2000, you started flying. When did... Yeah. So what was the catalyst to get into flying, being from Hungary and Budapest, like you said, and the flatlands? And then when did it become... When were you like, wow, I could make this my job? And when did
it become...
When did Red Bull happen? So three questions there. Sorry, too many, but... I got into, I mean, this kind of crazy activities already before that, like skateboarding and rollerblading. And then somehow I got into caving. So that was the first real passion, going down into caves and do proper tours. And I did that for four years, quite intense. Like I could say pretty much every week. And from there, I got into paragliding, which is quite funny. So from going underground to go up and touch the clouds, like...
Subterranean to overterranean. I don't even know what the other word is. But so basically in Budapest, where I grew up, there is this flying site, pretty much, just... On the board on the edge of the city. And you could time to time see people hanging up there like little mosquitoes. And that's how I started to... My attention turned to it. And the internet was quite new thing, but there was already some videos and some information about it. So I did some research. And then as well... While caving, I got to know some of these guys, pilots.
And then I got into a course and I got hooked like instantly, like most of us. And then basically, the way towards becoming professional was kind of unplanned and natural progression. Basically, I just wanted to fly as much as I could. And then I finished school. But luckily, I didn't actually get into university because my notes were not very good that time. And so I could not go through the... I couldn't enter without an additional exam. And the exam was quite high level.
So I didn't get it twice. I wanted to learn geography because that was the only thing that I could think of it. The only thing that would... You know, interest me enough. Yeah. Yeah.
And then basically, you know, how it works in our business. So basically, then, you know, I was young, I was talented, I was pushing and try to learn as fast as possible. And people saw that and then, you know, things started to happen. You know, I got cheaper gear. And you know, I bought my first equipment. I bought my first equipment already at a better price. And then the next wing was even at a better price because the dealer of Hungary, you know, basically sponsored me with a dealer price, which was awesome. And then, you know, we figured out quite quickly.
I mean, I say we because it was basically Gabor and me and some other youngsters, but especially Gabor and me. We were pushing somewhat harder than the others towards this direction. And we figured out that, you know, well, if we do this right, then we actually don't have to spend so much on equipment and we might even be able to travel or at least travel cheaper. And this is how it started. And luckily, this was quite, I don't know, a natural progression towards... Getting our first sponsors. And which actually happened through an event, a crazy little acro competition that my friend organized in Hungary back in 2004.
Overground it was not really well, it was a contest, but it was more like a meeting where that very few acro pilots that were... Doing some acro at least in Hungary were basically meeting up and doing all the crazy stuff overground from towing. And we somehow, we won that competition. We both ended up being first somehow with the same score. And that led to our first sponsor, which was a Hungarian like closing sponsor. And Red Bull was the co-sponsor of this event with, well, basically nothing more than a tent and some cans.
But it's how they already kind of knew about us, but it only came later as we were kind of, you know, kind of too shy and kind of not really trusting ourselves to actually go there and ask, hey guys, I'm into Red Bull. Hey, do you want to sponsor us? And we were like, yeah, let's do it. So we were just, we knew it's too early. So we were waiting for the right moment and waiting for the right way to approach them. And this happened only a few years later. Actually, it happened four years later in 2008, where we got our first contract. And obviously for that, we already had to lay down some results.
We got little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little And I might have this wrong, correct me if I do, but it seemed like for you there was this moment or time in your career and maybe – and I definitely want to talk about your action in 2012. Maybe that was because of that. But when did it – I feel like anyway that your career has really transitioned from really – from the World Cup scene and competitions and really pushing the acro and creating new tricks to – you're still really young.
But I see you now as more kind of like the Raul of the sport where you're maybe judging more or you're more – Yeah. It seemed like you got – in some ways, it seemed like you got bored of it. Is that true or no? Yeah, totally.
The accident itself was a very unfortunate thing. But what only my close friends know that at that time, in that moment, I already decided to leave this lifestyle, to stop competing. And actually, you know, winning again in 2011 because I really – I had a desire to repeat the overall World Cup victory from 2007 once more. So basically, in a way to prove myself that, you know, it was not just a one-time thing, but I can repeat this if I wanted to, which I did.
But then I wanted to leave it there. And I didn't actually announce this publicly because, I don't know, for whichever reason, I did not. But then came the accident. And, you know, I guess it's quite obvious for most people just looking at these events from one after the other and then seeing that, you know, I'm not coming back to compete and stuff. So it's probably – everybody thought that, ah, for sure, you know. He doesn't want to compete because he's whatever, not good enough anymore or he's, you know, he's not the same old pal or whatever, which is for sure I'm not the same old pal.
I mean, how could you be after such an event? But, I mean, my close friends all know that that was not the case. So I already actually decided to quit, like, in the moment when I held the trophy in my hand, basically. In 2011. Yeah. But then came the accident. And, obviously, I'm not going to publicly say, ah, you know, I decided to quit after the accident. I mean, that would be – that would be probably even worse option to communicate that. And, anyway. Well, let's talk about – I never actually talked about this before or in any way publicly. So it's quite funny.
And what was the other question? Yeah. So you are totally right. So definitely my career has changed. My way of seeing things as well changed. I'll be all honest for sure. I'm, in a way, not that crazy youngster anymore. And for sure, the accident was more of a life-changing experience. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I had to question many things and rethink many things. But it has nothing to do with the fact that I stopped competing. It has way more to – so basically, the lifestyle of being a World Cup acropilot is quite intense.
And it involves a lot of training. And most of it, if you really want to get good and stay good. The training possibilities restrict themselves to a very, very few places in the world where you got to spend like at least two months a year just training hardcore and keep pushing. And then, you know, the worst that with the current judging system and the current competition, it's still, you know, not necessarily the best who's going to win. But sometimes, you know, it's the best who's going to win. Sometimes, you know, it's the angle of the sun. Too much subjectivity. Yeah. Way too subjective.
And it's just kind of very disappointing when – and, you know, both ways. Like it could be on your advantage or your disadvantage. I mean sometimes I myself even got like higher points that I deserve. But then again, other times, I got lower points than I deserve. So it's – it's – yeah. It's really, really difficult. I mean I'm not judging those who actually do this truly really difficult job, you know, giving points instantly, watching the maneuver and one after the other and then the landing and, you know, there's a lot happening and it's really hard. So respect.
Any sport that's judged is just really tricky, you know, gymnastics, ice skating, you name it. It's just tough. Yeah. And there's always going to be people that like it and don't. That's tricky. Exactly. Exactly. And then there comes, you know, on the other side, if you go cross country flying, it's like it's super objective. You have your GPS track. They download your track log and that's your performance. There is no – Yeah. There is no way, you know, to cheat or to change. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, it's again a very complicated calculation how the results come out but the best guy is going to win. Yeah. Yeah. So before we jump into XC, I know there's people that, you know, I need to ask you some questions about acro for those of the listeners that either want to get into it or into it but I think we should talk about your accident.
What happened in Zermatt in 2012? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing is, you know, you just competed in the X-Alps, which is kind of the epitome of, to me at least, of the sport, you know, not the acro side of things, but, you know, you're not an unbold person and, you know, to come back from that, you know, this wasn't a sprained ankle. This is a major accident and, you know, so I – you know, unfortunately, you know, we participate in this sport that hurts a lot of people. A lot of people get hurt. And so I, you know, one of the main questions I get from our listeners is, is how to come back and they're not the physical side, the mental side. So maybe kind of fold all that into your action. I think there's a lot of learning people could get from that.
Sure. It was a speed riding accident. And, and I flew with six square meter, which is now we know that it's too small. So the top guys, the very like super top guns, the most hardcore pilots, they, even they don't fly a six. I mean, maybe one meter bigger or two meter, but that's just too small and too fast and just super sensitive. But the problem was not actually that, but it just, long story short, it, it didn't give me the amount of lift I actually needed that moment, that moment, because I was not fast enough because I, I just made like three flights with it.
That was maybe the fourth. And, uh, and I didn't have the lift to, to jump a cliff. And I basically crashed with the rocks just before the edge of the cliff. And that, you know, made me lose the balance. And probably just by losing the balance that the wing basically just went out of position. And, uh, and then I fell and then, I mean, I remember everything, but the thing is the glider just somehow disappeared. I can't exactly explain why or what happened. Probably it collapsed. And, and, but the thing is that I basically free fall down. And when I say I free fall down, I know I free fall down because I do base jumping.
And I know that, you know, how that feels. And I know that I was just accelerating from like close look zero, you know, going into the free fall. And, uh, that was, that was it. That was exactly it. Basically the, the sound of acceleration, that wind speed, uh, that was exactly the same when you jump over grief. So, and that was, that was pretty scary. And, and, uh, I can't be really sure, but I think it was probably like a 20 meter fall. Yeah. I would imagine. Cause I mean, it was quite a long fall and, uh, and when I look back to the cliff, it looked quite high too, but I couldn't see the exact proportions.
Were you, were you already hurt from hitting the end of it before you went off? Do you remember or no? Uh, I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think so. Maybe, but, but definitely not seriously. So. Um, the serious injuries came from creating a huge crater in the snow, which I was lucky enough to hit with my butt first somehow. And, um, but that's, that basically compressed my vertebras a couple. And, uh, and on the way I broke my, my, my, my, um, my leg in the open fracture.
Um.
Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.
Oh my god.
my say the bottom of your butt yeah yes and well the worst thing of the whole thing is that I also suffered a head concussion and that actually led to the next day and led to an increasing pressure in my school it's called school school which for that reason they actually put me into artificial coma to basically shut my body down and put it into standby and luckily they managed to to handle this through medication only but but during the artificially induced coma I also got the lung infection which is it's then becoming a really life-threatening situation so your body is already in a in in a in a shock from all the multiple injuries plus the head concussion with that extra pressure plus you know you are in a coma plus you have a lung infection so that was that was really a dangerous combination and
then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then then they took away the medication to try to wake me up but I didn't come back like I opened my eyes but I was not there you know it was like and and and that was where it started to became really scary for for my beloved ones because hey the they died maybe brain dead or doctors then well no no no but but at that moment the doctors like didn't know anymore you know what's gonna happen so it could be that they couldn't say anything you know if if I'm you know I may wake up tomorrow or come back next week or come back in a month or or never
and and then again the longer you stay in coma you know the more damage you're probably gonna suffer the more skills you're gonna lose and so! basically they told my family you know well you know we can't be sure when when I when I wake up if I wake up as a as a two years old like or I can't speak anymore or I can't do this so I can imagine so I'm I'm I'm really sorry for especially my family and my girlfriend back then she went through quite difficult times obviously as well but how and and and you know
it's crazy but I I kind of believe in these kind of things like a higher power which I I would never call God because in I don't believe in that stuff but because I mean what God God only I mean God is the only God that I can trust and I don't believe in that stuff but because I mean what God God only I mean God is the only God that I can trust and I feel little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little
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little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little So anyway, like many, many people, like probably hundreds or if not thousands of people were thinking of me and, you know, praying. And not only praying in those conventional manners, but in basically any way. So, you know, calling for the energy of the universe and all that stuff. And I tend to believe that this could have been the reason why I returned exactly on my birthday. That's so cool. So basically that probably that day, that moment, so many people were thinking of me and, you know, wishing that I was there and back and I lived.
So, I mean, it could be.
So I was pretty cool. That's amazing. Do you think there's, I want to ask you about when, you know, like coming back to flying, but do you think because you got hurt the way you did, you know, flying a six meter wing? I know this is impossible because you didn't get hurt flying, but do you think if you'd gotten hurt, like flying a normal paraglider, would it have been different coming back? It could be, could be. But, I mean, there always should be a difference. I mean, you know, getting hurt and getting hurt. And I mean, it's hard to, it's hard to think of a situation, what would be if, you know, would be if, if, but I don't know.
I really don't know. But for sure, getting hurt with something, you know, you are not like, you know, necessarily. Oh man.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. ground and then twist it up and enter the spiral and you know had no time to to sort it out so and you know a mystically was something he did like thousands of times thousands of times and okay i know he he did it with the glider he was not he didn't knew it very much so again there is you know that point of okay that was probably the glider he didn't know he was probably not supposed to do that maneuver that low even though he did it thousands and thousands of times with another glider and and and doing it low and stuff but
but you can still kind of find a reason why why it happened because of a different glider because that different brake line because the different behavior that was something something just a little bit different that that made that that small difference did you was there um was there thoughts when you started kind of coming back and realized you were going to be okay and you know obviously tremendously horrific rehab and stuff you know coming back from something like that but it was their thoughts of was flying different you know for you i mean was there thoughts of man maybe i shouldn't do this or maybe your family or or or was it just a matter of kind of overcoming the accident and getting back to it as soon as you could yeah actually i was i was really motivated to get back flying and and and get banged to get back doing everything i i love to do and uh coming back flying actually the first time i flew again was in canada you know we met at the pemberton nationals the canadian nationals no i wasn't there no no ah okay sorry but just just before that i actually did my first flight and and then i did the comp which was quite fun um was that was that still in 2012 yes it was in august it was in august 2012 so it was still it was
still in 2012.
it was quite early and um i that that was i was really happy i was stoked to to to get back flying and it felt like the right thing to do and it felt like the the right time but uh actually in october i had another accident i i didn't publicly communicate because it was just way too embarrassing for me and and and and the rehab from that accident i i didn't really i didn't even took longer than the one from Zermatt because it was basically ripping my kneecap into many pieces and that took some time to recover and it was terrible.
I mean, for me, it was way worse than like emotionally and motivation wise. It was way, way worse than the big accident before because, you know, that big thing happened and, you know, I came out, I survived, I didn't die. That was a big thing and I felt so blessed to have another chance and, oh man, it was great.
And then, you know, I... Basically, I started to do everything I really wanted to keep doing and then I had a really bad landing, like wingsuit base jumping and I basically like crashed into rocks with some backwind and I broke my knee really bad. And, well, that felt like extremely stupid. That felt... Imagine just basically... Coming back from a life-threatening accident and then... And after all the rehab and all the work and, you know, while, you know, people questioned your mental abilities because, anyway, it was kind of communicated.
Well, not very smart, I would say. So my accident, while I was in the coma, was not very well. So I was able to manage from the public point of view that basically, you know, I could be just a retard now because, you know, because I had a head injury. You know, I was in coma and so on and so on. So it was not quite clear what actually comes out of all this. And...
And well... And then... And then I have... I have another accident. And so... That felt really stupid. Yeah. And... And especially the way back, the... To get the motivation again to come back from an accident that's not life-threatening, but in a way it takes even more effort to get back, like, health-wise. And it takes even longer to leave the crutches, to be able to walk again, to be able to... To run again, to be able to bend your knees again, and, you know, like, all that basic stuff. So... And I guess that serious, like, first, obviously, the big accident, and then, again, this stupid mistake that could have been, like, easily, easily avoided.
I mean, that was a big throwback. Do you find... I... I... You know, my first really big film project, I'd done tons and tons before that that were a much smaller scale, but the first big one I did with Red Bull Media House was with Will Gadd on the Rockies project in 2014. And, you know, he'd been a Red Bull athlete for so long, and he'd done, you know, he called them rodeos. He'd done so many rodeos, you know, so many big film projects that he... One of the things he talked about, you know, really rammed home, because he had a lot of experience. He could see that I, you know, at that point, I was still, you know, I hadn't... I'd only been flying, I think, eight years, and I was kind of known to take a lot of risk, and I think that was one of the reasons I was able to become a, you know, good pilot
fast, or faster, because I... One, I'd put a lot of time into it, but I was also, you know, probably taking too much risk. Not probably. I was. And Will has, you know, a very... He's been at it so long that... And for the most part, pretty injury-free, you know, like tweaking fingers and stuff, ice climbing, that kind of thing, but... Yeah, yeah. And he just kept saying over and over, you know, like, listen, it doesn't matter that we're making a film. Those guys can just film what they get. Just, you gotta be a pilot, and you gotta be safe, and, you know, if you get hurt for the cameras, that's just the stupidest thing in the world. Oh,
yeah, yeah.
And I know I'm not comparing your base accident to that, but do you find that, because you're in
the industry, because
of the profession and Red Bull and the sponsors, does that pressure you? Does that... Is there a good and bad side of that? For sure, it has a good and bad side, especially when you have a camera running. It's a huge... I mean, it's a real safety factor. It's really bad for your health if you have a camera running. Yeah. I mean, nowadays, it's totally normal that everybody has a GoPro and films everything, and it's a good thing because you can, you know, look back and analyze your flight or whatever, your tricks, and get better at doing so.
But for sure, there's a, you know, with Facebook and YouTube and all this stuff going on, there's a huge... There's a huge push of, you know, having to bring out something more spectacular, more hardcore, closer, faster, better, and so on. And for sure, this is definitely a big source of accidents just because people overdo things. In my case, in both of the cases, it was... I don't feel... I feel like it played a big factor.
I actually had cameras running in both cases, but in the first case in Zermatt, I lost the camera in the crash.
In the second case, I have it filmed, but it's just a big embarrassment because, you know, I could have done much better. I could have avoided that.
But, I mean, you can't... You can't blame the sponsors themselves because the sponsors actually, you know, are a good thing. And I would say, you know, many people ask me this, but I never felt like being pushed by Red Bull to do things that are too dangerous. Like if it was too dangerous, then I told them, look, this is... I will not do this. It's too risky for me, or there's just too much uncertainty, or for whatever reason, you know, I don't feel good about it. And they say, okay, okay. You know, they don't... They never want you... Yeah,
they don't push that.
No, they don't push that. They are not stupid. They don't want to push you into an accident. It's not good for anybody. Right. Sure. And they very rarely come up with ideas, hey, you know, we figured out, you know, you could do this or that. And I mean, especially not in paragliding because they don't... Usually, they don't know... They don't have so much knowledge to actually know. Sure. You know, if you can do certain things or not. But obviously, they came up with some ideas that those were usually not necessarily doable or just too complicated or maybe too much risk. But you can always say no. And the other thing is, I think probably like another typical situation where it's hard to say no is, you know, having a show when you know.
You know, there are like thousands, maybe even 10,000 of people waiting to see your performance. And, you know, you really want to perform. You have that motivation from... Energy. From inside. You know, you want to do that because you want to... You know, it's not about showing off. It's more like, you know, showing well, obviously your skills, your performance and obviously in a way kind of showing off. But basically, you want to show off. You want to impress the people. You want to show them, you know, what you can do the best. And everybody has to know his limits and especially the limits of, you know, the wind or turbulences or whatever. And but, well, many, many accidents happen during like show flying or competitions because
people just keep just tend to push just a little too much. Yeah. Oh man.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man.
did you maybe get and didn't follow or what advice do you wish you would have gotten? In other words, what would you have changed? You know, when you look back at your flying career, what would you like to impress on people that are maybe just getting into the sport or maybe dealing, you know, kind of locked into intermediate syndrome, you know? Well, it's a good question. I think
I can't really say I would have changed something because basically I was just following my instincts and following my passion and it took me down this road. And it was obvious that, I mean, accidents can happen and probably will happen, which, I mean, I had two accidents earlier,
breaking first. Like quite low airtime pilot, I broke my arm, like stupid, like super typical beginner mistake, small landing place. I misjudged, you know, power lines came, I stalled out. So quite typical stuff. And then I broke my ankle from a ground spiral over high grass. Uh, I knew these things can happen and, and, I mean, I took this in consideration. But I really, I had this, this, this crazy motivation to, you know, learn more and keep progressing and, and, and just do more and more and more.
And, um, that was kind of natural for me. And, and, uh, I just, I just did everything I had to do to, to feed this, this, this needs. And, you know, this is different for everybody. I mean, some, some older gentlemen might be just super happy to, you know, glide down in, in, in, in cold air, and then, you know, drink a few beers and, and, and talk about it a few hours and still be really happy about what they experienced and, and, and be totally satisfied. And this is, I mean, in a way different for everybody. And I think the most important thing, I think, is just that everybody, you know, finds what's his thing and what makes him happy.
And, and, and it's, I mean, not everybody needs to, to get into competitions and, and fly a hundred K cross country or, or do accro or do whatever it's a, it's, it's, it's a personal preference who, who, uh, wants to progress more, who is happy with, with, you know, just gliding down. And, or, or soaring on the beach. Um, and this is really beautiful about paragliding that you have so many different styles of flying so many different, you know, ways to, to enjoy. But, but for, for those guys who, you know, are happy about, you know, just gliding down and basically do those very, they consider safe activities.
That's probably, I mean, they are probably in way bigger danger than the guys who are pushing like hell because those who are pushing hard, they, they progress to, to a higher level and they, um, have a higher routine. They are, you know, even though I believe, even though they are flying more and they, you know, that's a good point. They might, they're training, might risk, might risk more, but they are much more in training. And so they can, uh, avoid those dangerous situations or they know what to do when they get into one. And, and the low, lower time pilots, even though they feel like, ah, you know, I only fly the weekend or, you know, just a few times in a year or so, but they are actually the ones being in danger because because well, we talked about that on a, a recent show.
I was reflecting on that after the ex Alps that I think I think a lot of people, you know, see, see the, the, the people competing that is really daredevils and, you know, and taking really huge risk and. Wow. That's true. That's true. You're right. But I, but at the same time, I feel like, you know, I think there's a lot of pressure on the weekend pilots because, you know, maybe they only have one day, one day or two days a week and the forecast isn't as good, but they, you know, they try to fit it into something that's, that's not right. You know, they try to make the day work on a day that's above their ability, you know, and, and you don't, you don't have the flexibility. I think, you know, when you're a full-time pilot or you really have a lot of time, you don't have the flexibility to just walk away as easily.
I think there's a lot, in some ways there's more pressure on them. And, and again, they don't have the routine as well to say no, because they just, they are there to fly and they, they want to fly because it's the only time of the week they can. And wow, that's when shit hits the fan. Yeah. Yeah. And, but as well, they, you know, I believe those guys, I mean, it's okay. You know, nobody, not everybody has the privilege like us to, to, to leave out of flying and to, to leave for flying in a way. And, uh, but people have to realize that there is, there is a lot to, to learn and practice even without actually going to fly. So I think those who don't have.
The time to go flying, but still, I'm sure that most of the people would have the possibility even after work, even, you know, if mountains are not close by, but even just go out to a field and do ground handling, because that's, in my opinion, that's, uh, that's a very, very key practice and the very base of, of glider control. And you can learn flying without actually, you know, getting airborne and being in safety on the ground. Obviously accidents can happen there too. If you, if you, if you go on the limits in higher winds, but, but this is this, this will actually teach you.
Active flying on the ground. And, um, this is as well, something I will, uh, express in, in my upcoming, uh, instructional video that, uh, you know, there's a. There's a lot to learn through ground handling and people really extremely, extremely underestimate this and, and, you know, it's, it's, I think it's really, really bad that, um, nowadays the practices. Well, the schools obviously get as many students. The school get you the rating. Yeah, exactly. So now, so now, uh, instead of teaching the basis. In the base course,
which is for me like grant handling. So in, especially in the apps where you don't necessarily need a reverse launch, uh, for taking off, because as soon as you have that amount of wind on launch that you could reverse launch, it's might already not be the beginner, uh, conditions to fly because you either have strong thermal or you have phone or just, you know, Yeah. Front coming in and strong wind and take off. So you should not be flying anyway. But, but I mean, that's, that's just terrible table thing that, that, you know, basically the ground handling became a different product. Ground handling course became another product.
They are selling like some kind of advanced technique for, you know, like bullshit. Yeah. So 100%. Yeah. And, uh, that's, this is what's cool is it's, uh, I, I hope we're changing the tide a little bit with that, just with this podcast, you'd be amazed how often ground, we actually did a whole podcast on ground handling, but the, uh, you know, the it's, it's cool that the top pilots, but especially the Acro guys, of course, cause you guys are just dance with your wings on the ground. If they have really rammed that home. And so hopefully we're. Yeah. But anybody can do that. Everybody should do that. Everybody should do that. Absolutely. Everybody should do that. Even the old guys, obviously you don't have to be like jumping and, and whatever, you know, there's, there's a lot, a lot to learn.
Grant ending. I have my seal, a lot to learn ground handling. Cause you know, I'm not the best at it. I'm it's okay. I I'm safe enough for, for most wind conditions to take off basically most places, but, uh, yeah, anyways, it's a different. Yeah. I'm glad you, glad you bring that up. Okay. We're going to transition to cross country here in a sec, but for the, for those that want to learn, um, Acro, uh, where, what are the, I saw a really cool post the other day by Theo, the Blick about, you know, recommending that, um, uh, you know, if you're getting started in Acro, you should start on a really nice B, you know, don't, don't get a freestyle way. Don't get an Acro wing.
So talk about, talk about, you know, what, what should people. You know, where should they go? What should they do? Um, maybe, maybe talk a little bit about SIV as well. And then we're then we'll transition cross country. Okay. So then, um, I think the opportunity to do some advertisement, so, so, uh, well it's, um, it's, uh, the biggest, biggest ever project of mine, uh, that took, or it's, it's, it's, it's still taking like three years since the beginning and it's still not finished due to, um, basically problems with the personnel I've been working with.
Um, and because it's a huge project, so it's ending up being four hours long and, um, it's going to be called master Acro and, uh, it's, uh, well, it's about learning Acro, especially the basics from, from spiral dive. Okay.
And, uh, I'm glad you brought this up with tail and I didn't read this, but I'm really glad that, that, that tail told the same thing, because that's exactly what I will be communicating through these videos. It's because people went way off course people, I mean, thanks to the paragliding industry starting to produce. And, and, and market Acro products and freestyle products. So now the newcomers think that, you know, to learn Acro, they need at least the freestyle wing, if not an Acro wing. And this is obviously the biggest mistake they, they, they ever going to make in their flying career because so, and, and it's so common, it's just so common these days that, that youngsters, uh, you know, probably.
People basically after like one year of, of, of making their basic course and they, they end up buying whatever secondhand Acro wing online because, because that's what they see. That's what they see in all the videos. Everybody's only flying with Acro wings. You know, there's nobody or just, I mean, you, you can't barely see any videos where, where people do like. More. Yeah. More than just the full store, more than just the wing over with, with, with some kind of certified and, and, uh, and, and regular gliders. And that's, that's, that's horrible. So, and, and back in the days when, when I started to fly Acro, uh, I, I was lucky enough to get my hands on an aerodyne dune, which was a DHV two.
So nowadays, well, probably E and B or C probably a low end. Uh, wing and it was great, man. It was, it was actually sold as a freestyler, but it was, it was not, it still had the performance. I flew cross country. We did. I flew like even back then with my low air time experience, I, I flew like a couple of hundred K flights, hundred 40 K over the flat lands of Hungary. And, and at the same time, you know, I learned. Okay. A lot of things, basically everything, everything up to like helical to helical and tumbling and basically everything except rhythmic start and infinity.
Cause that, that couldn't do this glider didn't do it. But imagine then changing to an Acro wing or freestyling, having all that knowledge already knowing how those maneuvers go. And, and work and, and, and having the routine of performing it at least on that kind of serial glider, which is slower, safer. The break travels are longer. It doesn't shoot like a motherfucker. And, and you know, it still has the dynamic. It still has the potential to perform those maneuvers. And then you just have to, I mean, just adopt all your skills to, to a different level.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man.
Oh man. high and B three liner with a shark nose. And, you know, it's kind of a modern,
nice, you know, cutting edge, high and big glider. And, and to prove the paragliding word that you don't need the fucking freestyler. You don't need a, an acro wing. Cause all you're going to do with that is twist up, fall into the canopy and, you know, make shit. So basically, basically in my videos, in each video of, you know, presenting. So a spiral dive, a full stall wing over asymmetric spiral, and then even looping and dynamic full stall and helicopter and asymmetric. Uh,
I'm, I'm doing it all that with the, with the rush four. And then only at the end of each section, I, I,
then little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little the better with a b as well as well said because you can learn so many things and people just just ignore this fact and uh that's that's that's that's really really bad for for the safety of our sport there's a lot of crossover here isn't there like i i remember when my my like bible when i was first learning how to fly in 2006 was was Jocky Sanderson performance free flying you know and and uh and they they have they do some macro and that and then he talks about you know the whole time in that whole series that he's on i can't remember what the what the wing was back then but it was a b and uh and he talked about you know just how important it is to to you know you can do everything you can i i think what i'm saying is is there's there's a this there's the same crossover and cross country that i think people really often mistake where they start thinking you know that oh i got to get that hundred my first 100k flight or my you know my first x and so i i gotta get away with better performance and they move up too fast and they they don't have the foundation you know they don't have the i mean that's that's a topic that comes up on this show a lot is this is when to move up and and my my answers of course it's always independent for person to person but my my analogy is is kayaking you know like you don't you don't you really shouldn't go i spent a lot of time back in the day whitewater kayaking and you know that we always talked about then was that you know you don't really go kayak class four until you're nailing every move in class three you know that you you can hit every eddy you can hit you can you can you can work the river you're working the river it's not the other way around you know then you're ready for class four and then you're ready for class five but if you just go from three to six you're gonna die oh for sure you know yeah
yeah they what but unfortunately we don't have these kind of well structured rules! or well yeah guidelines and you just yeah i i there's a there's a real gap isn't there because it totally and it also really depends on where you learn you know is it is it the british is it the swiss is it the united states i mean everybody's it's a real scatter shot in terms of and like you said depends on where you learn and some schools don't they don't really have a very good place to ground handle so you don't ground handle that's just terrifying and and so so let me i mean i'm happy to i'm happy to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to feel little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little see the crazy part of it and and they don't understand that by controlling your glider perfectly in the three-dimensional space in all basically controlling your entire polar curve which people you know just control it like 99 of the people can only fly their glider in the in the positive range of the polar curve which is from minimum speed to full speed in best scenario from minimum speed to full speed but there is you can fly backwards you know you can do a tail slide the full stall you can and and and i don't even want to go any further than just full stalls and wing overs and obviously spiral dive but but but the full stalls and the wing overs are the two elementary and most important maneuvers that should be part of some kind of a basic course or some kind of a basic license that people have to master you know before whatever getting their their like certification or the second one or whatever advanced thing because most importantly obviously the full stall is your only chance in some situations your only chance to avoid throwing a reserve or avoid throwing a reserve getting into an outer rotation or you know correct uh a big collapse or uh a cravatted wing and the wing over on the other hand is is your your tool to maneuver around in three-dimensional space um on the limit basically to max out your maneuverability uh with each glider and uh and you know i i am so upset every time i see one of those thousands of crash videos on youtube because because the the reason why people crash and get hurt is because they don't have a minimum skill of glider control which when they get into some kind of a stressful situation then then of course then they they get into a lot of trouble and then they get into a lot of trouble and then they they tend to well block or or just do the wrong thing and by not being able to to uh to perform a full stall like it was the the most natural thing you know yeah like so obviously how how do you expect them to source sort out certain situations without that knowledge there is i can tell you there is no way and
sometimes if they would stall they would get into even bigger trouble than what they are already into so yeah i think so i i think it's terrifying that you know maybe you know if most people wouldn't even do this but maybe they'll do an SIV a year and maybe if they get the weather and everything goes right they might get three or four stalls the last day of the SIV and that might be the last time they'll ever do it you know and exactly yeah in the X-Alps i had to full stall three times one day coming out of the out of the matterhorn in in a horrific amount of wind and and like you said if it's something you're really comfortable with it's just not it's a non-event it's just nothing you lose 10 meters and you keep flying exactly exactly and and this should be you know the standard maneuver for all pilots and then we would have basically uh we would not have like probably 90 percent of the accidents with more ground handling and more full stalls it would be like the safety statistics would be like turning upside down that's great i'm so glad you brought that up well for those of you listening we will have show notes when this goes live and uh and we'll have links to everything pal's talking about and maybe it sounds like your project's not quite ready for release but when it is uh make sure we we uh we blow that up and put it everywhere thanks for for doing that yeah
yeah just i i i recently just had to fire the third guy i've been working with this project so and and the last two guys were were editors basically i already i i already pre-cut all the four hours of footage and every so basically somebody just need to go over uh correct the sounds you know the colors and some animations and basically just create a final product i don't have time to and i'm not you know skilled enough to trust my skills to okay well cool well this is a call out you be careful dude you're gonna get a lot of emails because of what you just said but yeah i'm sure they'll be now it's it's already on the way it's i don't have time for for more good good well cool well i can't wait for that okay well hey i i want to be mindful of your time but the but before you go why the big gap between 2009 and 2017 obviously you had the accidents in 2012 but you know kind of fill me in on that what was the experience of the 2009 X-Alps um and then uh you know why why come back to it thanks for asking so well i didn't come back in 2011 because after 2009 i told myself never again really but um yeah because well it was obviously it was um i the the coin has both sides i mean obviously it's it's one of the most beautiful and and and challenging and exciting but as well dangerous event you know ever organized in in paragliding and um well back then there was no um resting time
so it was it was basically a night pass every night which is now which is uh today most participants could probably not even imagine how you know it went down because because you know now like the athletes are thinking about the night pass as some um radical mysterious you know like the crazy stuff and and and some of them they don't know how to do it they don't know how to do it they don't even want to pull the night pass unless you know like super necessary because it was it was really really different style and it made it even more radical and uh but luckily they they made this new rule because well and even with this new rule that you have to to stop so long every night
but after a few days you just just whenever you know the air is calm and maybe you have a slow climb or maybe you have to be patient you you just start falling asleep so it's still super exhausting and uh yeah then came the accident and uh i i don't know it it was a combination of of many things uh probably most importantly that i kind of felt this need and and motivation to to prove! myself that you know it's still possible like i'm still able to i'm you know i'm even after all this i'm not crippled and kind of to celebrate that in a way and and but kind of also tests especially my knee because it's that i have my knee and also my ankle that that was broken so but i i was really motivated to to just train hard and get fit again and and and and test myself and i'm still able to improve little by little little by little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little little you've done a lot of you've been doing more world cups you've been doing more comps um you know was it something was it something kind of that clicked like back in 2015 or 14 like hey maybe i'll give this another shot i'm getting healthy again i'm feeling good or or was it really kind of a last minute decision no no not at all you know i i really felt motivated to do more competitions and everything but just you know before um before 2011 before i stopped the actual career it was just really impossible then the big click or well the moment uh that the big change came uh when i when i when i came to ozone in 2014 so with ozone i i i got the tool of flying the best gliders and and that really pushed me to to compete more but still unfortunately i i could not by far compete as much as i i wish to because uh the last few years most of the world cups were always at the same time or or at least a few days where we're hitting one of the air races or some other event or they would be just way too far and way too expensive and and uh
and little little didn't work out but i will really really i i still feel the same and i still want to do way more and i'm really like i'm sitting on needles to to do more than that more of that but um the moment still needs to come and hopefully it will come soon so the the the 2017 race um you know you you crushed it even regardless of the uh 48 hour penalty which must have been just brutal uh sitting there in italy and and seeing people making progress and stuff but what what was you share with me your kind of highest moment and your lowest moment of the race well the lowest moment if i may start with that was obviously uh realizing the
um the airspace violation uh which i wasn't quite sure about until uh the next day and and it upset me like it upset me really bad because i was i was doing great you know i felt really strong like physically and and i was flying really well and um and it upset me especially because of my team because of you know there were four people behind me working their ass off and and and doing a great job and then basically me doing this this stupid little mistake that
little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake little mistake little mistake that little mistake that little mistake that little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake that little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake little mistake emotional and and then i was on the way up in a whatever 1400 meter climb uh somewhere in south tyrol before maran and um and uh the first spot i i had some coverage i called my team and you know they put me on the speaker and then i told him you know sorry guys it's this sucks but you know i don't want you to to break down i don't want you to feel uh bad about it i'm sorry for the mistake but you know we're gonna just get get the best out of it still and and and um
and uh well we we are racing we are in a different race now but anyway we we're gonna keep racing and uh and that was cool then the i had a pretty strong moment i had to cry for some time and on the top on the same mountain there was uh there were like three or four more athletes and um and i was super pissed i i i took off way too early and i almost bombed out and at the end i did not but uh it was great and the positive or the the highlights for me i think i can honestly say that i think i think i i never in my life flew that well as as as during those those 10 11 days because i mean even considering that you know i was really tired and and you know it's you're not in the same mindset as if you wait for the wait for the the one or two days and then you know you're not in the same mindset as if you wait for the best days of the year and then you go super motivated to the takeoff and fresh and you know all just you know you put everything on on that day and and go full obviously you are likely to make better decisions and stuff but considering all the conditions um i mean the physical and mental load and uh and the whole x-ups thing uh i i have to say i can only i can only mention like one single mistake i know i i did a mistake i could have done better i could have flown a little bit more but but that's it like it's one mistake i can really i and and it's it's awesome i mean i i feel so crazy happy about it because because i mean sometimes the conditions were really tricky sometimes it was i mean you know standard yeah so that's yeah like like day three when when you flew over my head and i you know it was it was such a non-event you know it was like we nick and i got shaded out going in there and and then you came in and and uh you know i i bombed and that happens in paragliding whatever and and uh you know but then on the way back up i tried to take a shortcut and i lost my phone and it was it just you know it was an hour delay that turned into not getting to treat you know i launched later on with all you guys going the other way and it's just yeah i think i saw you amazing i think i saw you launching below us yeah really cross really dicey down there oh yeah
yeah it was too i flew just across the valley and then another little hop and you just you couldn't get in then it was so south and so so nasty that it was just you just missed your window and then like you say you have to uh that was my really low moment that night you know just going oh what what have i done i went from third to last almost you know and uh and but it was at the same time it's like you just have to shift your mind isn't it like okay i'm not this i'm not going to place now it's that it's a different kind of race now and then from then once i once i was over that hump it was beautiful the whole way you know it's like wow this is you just have to appreciate it for what it is you know exactly and and and this is how i came to to the race i knew there's gonna be suffering i knew it's gonna be danger and all that stuff but but i also
felt from 2009 that it's it's something really special and beautiful and and you just have to see the beauty in it and and try to you know put the suffering aside or at least like be able to to uh to make fun out of it in a way like you know to be laughing about the suffering and it's it's really difficult sometimes but but i mean you have to figure something out because otherwise it's gonna be terrible it's a long way to go so uh the the ultimate question will you do it again
no no i i don't think so really i mean no yeah so i mean i know i i i know i i said the same in 2009 and then i came back eight years later but the thing is and that's different now that
know what i learned from two ex-ops that is is the preparation the amount of time and effort and energy you put into it is is not balanced by the the result by the outcome in any way like you know it's just basically even even though when i registered for 2017 i promised myself okay well i you know you you're probably gonna qualify it's not like i register and i see if i get qualified or not i knew exactly if i register i will like most probably be qualified again so i just promised myself okay i will do this again but i will not put so much effort into it because i have shit lots of other things to take care of and you know a lot a lot of other things happening in my life which are in a way more important and my health is little little little little little little little little little little little little little little as well, more important than anything else in terms of like competition and result and fame and whatever.
So, and still, do you look back at that? Um, sorry to interrupt. I just, do you, do you think in some ways that that helped in like having, having the distractions, having, you know, not taking it maybe as seriously as for example, I did. Uh, but you don't like, I, I, I've thought about that a lot. Like clearly, you know, Chrigel takes it probably more seriously than anybody. And he trains really, really hard. And obviously he's, he's amazing and he wins. But I wonder in your case, like you, you, you may be coming in so relaxed and not really having, um, you know, expectations or pressure. Maybe that allowed you to fly. Cause I, I fly differently in the X-Alps. I start worrying about course line and I, I, I make my mistakes are because I'm not as loose.
I'm not as loose as I used to be. I'm not as loose as I used to be. I'm not as loose as
when I fly normally, you know, I'm more tight. I'm more, I'm more like, I know the move I need to make, but Oh God, if I don't, if, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'm going to be 10 miles farther walk. And so I don't do it, you know? And yeah. Um, I think there's something in what you say. So basically not having such a big expectations, I think certainly helps not to feel so much under pressure and maybe be able to make clearer decisions or better decisions and, and not to be so strict to yourself. But at the same time, I'm, I'm a super competitive person. And, and, uh, and then I, with this, I returned to my, my original thoughts that even though I promised myself not to invest so much effort into this, but I did, and I could not help it.
I, I basically like my, the last few months before, or let's say for sure the last two months, like completely, but completely the exhaust took over my life. And, and, uh, in terms of preparation, in terms of training, in terms of preparing basically everything. And luckily I, I, I was lucky enough to, to get some last minute, support and, and, and, and find the right people to, to help this journey, uh, which was again, kind of, you know, although I didn't really want it to put effort into looking for sponsors and put effort into making this professionally and put so much effort into,
you know, looking at the route and, and, and spending fucking hours studying the route and, and, and, and looking at tracks. And then, and then even, you know, drive down to, to Italy and drive down to places and look at, at certain things. But I did not so much really flying the route. That was still like a lot and a lot of, of, of virgin territory for me a lot, but, but, um, it turned out quite well. And, uh, but that's what I mean. So even though if I promised myself, no, I will, you know, focus on, on the, on the more important things in my life, I can't, I can't take it.
I can't take it easy. I can't take it that lose because that's not, that's not who I am. That's not how I work. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a major commitment. Absolutely. It's, it's, it's a major commitment. Yeah. You have, you, you at least have one, one fan on the other end of here that it's, that'll be disappointed not to see you in the race. Yeah. Cause man, you were fun to watch. That was a awesome effort. And, uh, you'll never know. Time does funny things, but, um, speaking of time, I, you, you've given me way more than, uh, your fair, way more than what I could have possibly asked for. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Uh, that's a perfect place to end.
And, uh, I can't wait to see this, this film, uh, that when you put that out, uh, we'll have to show that. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh
man. Oh
man. Oh man. Oh man.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man. Oh man.
Oh man. Oh man. Oh, surprise. Yeah, right, right. We have a different kind of baby. Yeah, right. But let's keep it private for now. Okay, cool. Wait a minute. You do have a baby. No, I don't. Okay.
I thought you were talking about your land, and then I was like, wait a minute. What? She's pregnant? Yeah, the land is the baby, the project. Okay, okay. That's what I thought. I thought, wait a minute. Am I totally misunderstanding here? You got a baby coming? No, cool. Well, yeah, I can't wait to show you mine. She's a little angel. But, pal, thank you very much, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, we should do some nice Vol-B flying. You should show me the BV style. I never actually did any serious Vol-B work. Oh, man, you'd love it. That would be an amazing project together, I think, with your project. Yeah, I mean, you have a better background than my background. I bet we could put together something pretty fun. Yeah, we just have to find the time for that.
That's the most difficult. Yeah, bingo. Yeah, exactly. That's always the crux.
Thanks very much. All right, man. Talk to you soon. Talk soon. Bye-bye. All right, cheers. Bye. Bye.
Have a great day.
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