Greetings, everybody, and welcome once again to the Cloudbase Mayhem podcast. You've got Miles this week because Gavin is out in the Nevada desert as part of a massive search and rescue effort for a missing pilot. He'll be back in a couple of weeks and hopefully with a good story to tell. But in the meantime, to fill the gap, we're revisiting one of our most popular episodes ever, an interview with acro legend and XC hero, Pal Tackett. Pal has been around the sport for a very long time, has been groundbreaking and developing some of the world's most astounding acro moves, has loads of good stories and a lot to teach us. So we hope that you'll enjoy it, have a listen, learn something, and stay safe, everybody. Thanks.
let's do it
Pal, so awesome. We've been trying to do this for a while, but I think you're the first person in the world I've met that's actually busier than I am. So, uh, thanks for making the time. It's kind of of funny that I understand you're in Indianapolis. Let's start with that. What are you doing, man? You're in the wrong part of the world, uh.
You might say that I'm here for the Red Bull Air Race for the final stop of the 2017 season. As you might know, I'm performing paramotor demos at most of the stops since a few years, so it's the last one of the season and, uh, but I'm only here for six days.
You know what? I, I knew you did all these demos and you did the performing, performing, but I thought it was, uh, acro without a motor. I didn't know. So, are you doing like full acro stuff, but with the paramotor? No.
Not really, you know. Most of these events, uh, take place under quite, uh, well, some of the most restricted airspaces in the world, close to some, some pretty big airports. So the ceiling is quite low, and I usually, basically, my, my show time is 10 minutes, so and that includes takeoff and landing. So there's no time to, to climb out high for, you know, doing radical stuff, and I'm, I'm usually just doing some basic aerobatics and pull a long streamer and use my smoke and do ground spirals to food dragging and, and you know, these areas are quite large, so I have to do some, some here, do some there, you know, visit the different spectator areas, and, uh, where the 10 minutes are gone pretty quick, okay?
Well, the for those, um, those who are listening, and I, I want to get into the more recent history stuff because I know since the X-Alps you've been extremely busy, and before we started recording here, you, uh, you were telling me you've got some land down in Columbia, and you and your girlfriend are going down there. So we got a lot to talk about, but, um, you know, for those who have had their head in a hole for the last 15 years, um, can you give us the, you know, the pal tech? It's like a resume, you know, you, what you put down on, on paper, maybe hit some of the high points because, you know, to me at least you're, you know, your, your history is really acro, but you're, you know, twice now you competed in the X-Alps, but catch everybody up that may not be familiar with your history, okay?
Well, I'm 32 now, and I started flying when I was 16. I come from Hungary, Budapest, so quite flatland country, and somehow got into acro pretty quick and and and put all my my efforts and motivation and money into progressing as as fast as possible, just out of pure passion and, uh, well, powered by this, I I ended up competing in the World Cups, which I I won three times, twice in solo and once in synchro, and uh, finished once second, and I mean, quite good results, but then I I kind of pulled out from that, uh, in 2011, but you know, I was always as well a very passionate at cross country pilot, but you know, you never really saw me on the top of some, some, uh, high level podiums, which is because probably because I, I didn't really put so much time and effort into competing yet.
But as you said, uh, I competed in the Red Bull X-Files twice. Uh, most Most of the people probably don't even remember I did it in 2009 and finished eighth and did it again with you this year. And, well, I invented some of the latest. Well, it's not really latest anymore because since then a lot of new school stuff came in, in aerobatics. But, but basically, I invented the foundation of nowadays new school acro flying, which was, um, some, some new connections, some basically a new style of performing certain things, and and, uh, the esfera, cork, and joker, and cowboy, and booster, and and this kind of stuff, and, uh, with Gabor Casey, we did the Infinity Tumbling in Tandem in 2010,
which was quite a feat.
And what else? I also did, which nobody knows because it never actually got published. It's one of those projects that kind of disappeared in the archives. chives, uh, but I have a Guinness World Record in tandem infinity tumbling, which happened in 2014, I think, in Argentina. Um, did you go out of a balloon for that? Oh, from a helicopter? Ah, yeah.
Wow. Your passenger must've been thrilled.
Yeah. Yeah. Did you do that or did you, did you, it was a, she,
she, wow.
And how did you guys exit the heli? Did you D bag?
Yeah. Yeah. We D bag.
Okay. Whoa. That must've been exciting.
I was with squash Falcon. She's a British. dish uh you probably heard of her yeah
She, she covered, uh, she did a nice story for sidetracked, uh, with me on the the last x-ops in 2015. Ah, yeah, nice, nice, yeah. She's fun. Oh, wow, that's amazing. So, how many did you get in the tandem record, uh?
officially 140
And, uh, how did we vomit all over the place? Or did she do okay? Ah, she did great. She did awesome. I mean, after the landing, she had to lay down for half an hour, but, but that's not bad. Otherwise she did awesome. Wow. Then, uh, anyway, I will, I will probably just publish the raw footage. So at least it's, uh, it's, it's, it's online in a way. And, um, yeah, well, what, what I would like to mention as well is I'm the, the creator of justacro.com, which is basically the the largest, uh, website about aerobatic paragliding. It's, uh, already 11 years old, and I'm quite part proud of it, and I'm still working hard to to develop it.
It's just kind of tricky; I mean, there's a lot to do on the side, but I, I'm still really motivated to to keep pushing this further, and, uh, despite that, Facebook basically overtook all these community sites in a way, but, but I still didn't give up hope, and actually, it's quite popular still, and lots of videos, and, and the forum is running, yeah.
Of course, everybody follows it. I mean, that's interested in acro, um, so 16 years, so just after 2000, you started flying. When did, you know, when did, so what was the catalyst to get into flying being from Hungary and Budapest, like you said, in the flatlands? And then when did it become, you know, when did it, when were you like, wow, I could make this my job? And when did Red Bull happen? So three questions there. Sorry, too many. I
Got into, I mean, this kind of crazy activities already before that, like skateboarding and rollerblading, and then somehow I got into caving. So that was the first like real passion, you know, going down into caves and and do like like proper tours, and I did that for four years, quite intense like, I could say pretty much every week. Um, and from there I got into paragliding, which is quite funny. So from from going underground to go up and and touch the clouds like
subterranean to overterranean, yeah, the word is, but
So basically, in Budapest, where I grew up, there is this flying site, pretty much just on the board on the on the edge of the city, and you could time to time see people, you know, hanging up there like little mosquitoes, and that's how I started to to my attention turned to it. And, you know, the internet was quite new thing, but there was already some some videos and some information about it. So, um, I did some research, and then as well, while while caving, I I got to know some some of these guys, pilots, and then I got into a course and I got hooked like instantly, like most of us.
And, uh, then basically the way towards becoming professional was kind of unplanned and a natural progression. Basically, I just wanted to fly as much as I could, and and and then I I finished school, but luckily I didn't actually get into university because my notes were not very good that time, and so I could not go through the, but I couldn't enter without an additional exam, and the exam was quite high level, so I I didn't get it twice. I wanted to, I wanted to learn geography because that was the only thing that I could think of, it the only thing that would, you know, interest me enough, yeah, um...
And then, basically, you know, you know how it works in our business. So, basically, then, you know, I was young, I was talented, I was, I was pushing and try to learn as fast as possible. And, and people saw that. And then, you know, things start started to happen. You know, I got cheaper gear, and you know, I bought my, my, my first equipment already at the better price. And then the next wing was even at a better price because the, the The dealer of Hungary, you know, basically sponsored me with a dealer prize, which was awesome. And then, you know, we figured out quite quickly.
I mean, I say we because it was basically Gabor and me and some other youngsters, but especially Gabor and me were pushing somewhat harder than the others towards this direction. and we figured out that, you know, well, if if we do this right, then then we actually don't have to spend so much on equipment and and we might even be able to to travel, or at least travel cheaper, and and this is how it started and uh luckily, this was this was quite uh, I don't know, a natural progression towards getting our first sponsors and um, which actually happened through an event, uh, a crazy little acro competition that uh my friend organized in Hungary back in 2004
overground it was not really well it was a contest but it was more like a meeting meeting where very few acro pilots that were doing some acro, at least in Hungary, were basically meeting up and doing all their crazy stuff over ground from towing. We somehow won that competition. We both ended up being first somehow with the same score. score and uh and that led to our first sponsor which was a hungarian like closing sponsor and red bull was the co-sponsor of this event with
Uh, well, basically nothing more than than than a tent and and some some cans, uh, but it's how they already kind of knew about us, but it only came him later as we were kind of, you know, kind of too shy and kind of not really trusting ourselves to actually go there and ask, "Hey guys, I mean to Red Bull, hey, do you want to sponsor us?" So we were just, we knew it's too early, so we were waiting for the right moment and waiting for the right way to approach them and um, and this happened only a few years later, actually. It happened happened four years later in 2008 where we where we got our first contract and and obviously for that, we we already had to lay down some some results in in in in international competitions and and right there they could already see that, you know, this is this is getting serious and uh
And well, in 2007 I won the solo world cup already, so it was becoming quite serious. So that's how they got in 2008.
So, pal, I might have this wrong. Correct me if I do. But it seemed like for you there was this moment or time in your career and maybe – and I definitely want to talk about your action in 2012. Maybe that was because of that. That, but um, you know, when, when did it? I, I feel like, anyway, that your, your career has really transitioned, you know, from really, you know, from the World Cup scene and competitions and really pushing the acro and creating new tricks to, you know, you're still really young, but I see you now as more kind of like the, like the Raul of the sport, you know, where you're, you're, you know, you're, you're maybe judging more, or you're more, um, you know, it seemed like you got, in some ways, it seemed like you got bored of it.
It was that true, or is yeah?
yeah totally um you know It's the accident itself was, uh, was, was a very unfortunate thing, but um, what only my close those friends know that at that, at that time, in that moment, I already decided to, to leave this lifestyle, to, to stop competing in that way, and actually, you know, winning again in 2011, because I really, I had a desire to, to repeat the, the overall World Cup victory from 2007, 2007, uh, once more. So basically in a way to prove myself that, you know, it was not just a one-time thing, but I can repeat this if I wanted to, which, uh, which I did, but, but then I, I wanted to leave it there.
And, um, I didn't actually announce this publicly because I don't know for, for whichever reason I did not, but, um, then came the accident and, you know, I guess it's quite obvious for, for most people, just, just, uh, looking at these events from one after the other and then seeing that, you know, I'm not coming back to compete and stuff, so it's, it probably everybody thought that, uh, ah, for sure, you know, he doesn't want to compete because he's, whatever, not good enough anymore, or he's, you know, he's not the same old pal or whatever, which is, for sure, I'm not the same old pal. I mean, how could you be after such an event? But, um, I mean, my close friends all know that, that, that was not the case.
So, I, I already actually decided to quit like in the moment when I hold held the trophy in my hand, basically in
2011 yeah
But then came the accident, and obviously I'm not gonna publicly say, "Ah, you know, I decided to quit" like after the accident. I mean, that would would be, there would be probably even worse, uh, worse option to communicate that. And, uh, anyway, I never, I never, I never actually talked about this before or in any way publicly. So it's quite funny. And, um, what, what was the other question? Oh yeah. So you are, You are totally right. So, uh, definitely my, my career has changed my, my, my way of seeing things as well changed. I'll be all honest, for sure, I'm, I in a way, not that crazy youngster anymore.
And for sure, the accident was, was more of a life-changing experience that, uh, you know, I had to question many things and, and, and rethink many things. But it has nothing to do with, with the fact that I stopped competing; it has way more to, um, so basically, the lifestyle of, of being a World Cup acropilot is quite intense, and it involves a lot of training, and most of it, if you really want to get good and stay good, the, the training possibilities restrict themselves to a very, very few places in the world where you gotta spend like at least two months a year just training hardcore and keep pushing.
And then, you know, the worst that with the current, um, judging system and the current, uh, competition, it's still, you know, not necessarily the best who's gonna win, but sometimes, you know, it's the angle of the sun, too much subjectivity. Yeah, way too subjective. And, and, and it's just kind of very disappointing when, and, you know, of both ways, like it could be on your advantage or your disadvantage. I mean, sometimes I myself even got like higher points that I, I deserve, but then again, other times I got lower points than I deserve. So it's, it's really, really difficult.
I mean, I, I'm not judging those who, who actually do this truly, really, really difficult job, you know, giving points instantly, watching the maneuver and one after the other, and then the landing, and you know, there's, there's a lot happening, and, and, and it's really hard. So, so any sport
That's judged is just really tricky, you know? Gymnastics, ice skating, and you name it. It's, it's just tough, you know? There's always going to be people that like it and don't. That's tricky, exactly, exactly.
And then there comes, you know, on the other side, if you go cross-country flying, it's like, it's this is super objective. You, you have your GPS track, you, you they download your track log, and that's your performance. There is no, yeah, there's no way, you know, to, to cheat or to change, yeah, obviously it's again a very complicated calculation how the results come out, but the best guy is gonna win, like, yeah, so
Before we, before we jump into XC, I know there's, I know there's people that, that, uh, you know, I need to ask you some questions about acro for those, those of the listeners that, that either want to get into it or into it, but I, I think we should talk about your accident, um, what, what happened in Zermatt in 2012? Because I, the other thing is, you, you know, you, you just competed in the X-Alps, which is kind of the epitome of, to me, at least in this sport, you know, not the accurate side of things, but you know, that, that you don't, you're not an unbold person. And, and, you know, to come back from that, you know, this wasn't a ankle, this was a major accident. And, you know, so I want, you know, unfortunately, you know, we participate in this sport that hurts a lot of people, a lot of people get hurt.
And so I, One of the main questions I get from our listeners is how to come back. And not the physical side, it's the mental side. So maybe kind of fold all that into your action. I think there's a lot of learning people could get from
that. Sure. It was a speed riding accident and I flew with six square meter, which is now we know that it's too small. so the top guys the very like super top guns the the most hardcore pilots they Even they don't fly a six, I mean maybe one meter bigger or two meter, but um, that's just too small and and and too fast and um, and just super sensitive. But the problem was not actually that, but it just, long story short, it didn't give me the amount of lift I actually needed that moment, that moment because I was not fast enough because I, I just made like three flights with it, that was maybe the fourth, and and I didn't have the lift to to jump a cliff and I basically crashed with the rocks just before the edge of the cliff and that, you know, made me lose the balance and probably, probably just by losing the balance that the wing basically just went out of position and, uh, and then I fell.
And then, I mean, I remember everything, but the thing is the glider just somehow disappeared. I can't exactly explain why or what happened. Probably it collapsed. And, and, but the thing is that I basically free fall down. And that, when I say I free fall down, I know I free fall down because I do base jumping, and I know that, you know, how that feels, accelerating from like, close like zero, you know, going into the free fall, and uh, that was, that was it. That was exactly it, basically. The, the sound of acceleration, that wind speed, that was exactly the same when you jump over cliff, so, and that was, that was pretty, really scary.
And, and uh, I can't be really sure, but I think it was probably like a 20 meter fall, I would imagine, because I mean it was quite a long fall and, uh, and when I look back to the cliff, it looked quite high too, but I couldn't see the the exact proportions. Were you were you you
already hurt from hitting the end of it before you went off, do you remember or no? Uh,
I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. Maybe, but but definitely not seriously. So, um, the serious injuries came from creating a huge crater in the snow, which I was lucky enough to hit with my butt first somehow, and but that's that basically compressed my vertebras a couple, and and on the way I broke my my my my my leg in the open fracture, and well, I basically bruised like I bruised all my body like crazy, you know?
I I basically not that that moment, but, but, um, I, I didn't feel much that moment because obviously adrenaline was taking over, but, uh, but when I woke up from coma two weeks later, then, I mean, I could still feel like pain everywhere, all my ribs and my, what What do you say? The bottom of your butt. Yeah. Yes. And, well, the worst thing of the whole thing is that I also suffered a head concussion. And that actually led to the next day and led to an increasing pressure in my skull,
which for that reason, They actually put me into artificial coma to basically shut my body down and put it into standby, and luckily they managed to to handle this through medication only. But, but during the artificially induced coma, I also got the lung infection, which is it's then becoming a really life-threatening situation. So your your body is already in a shock from all the multiple injuries, plus the head concussion with that extra pressure, plus you are in a coma, plus you have a lung infection.
That was really, really, uh, a dangerous combination and, uh, well, thank God I, I somehow woke up. Uh, and it's insane, but I woke up on my, on my birthday. So basically, I, they, after a while, when, when, when they saw that I actually started to, start to do better, so they, they took away the medication to try to wake me up, but I didn't come back. Like, I opened my eyes, but I was not there, you know? It was like, uh, and, and, and that was where it started to become really scary for, for my beloved ones, because they, the, they died, maybe brain dead, or doctors then.
Well, no, no, no, but, but at that moment, the doctors, like, didn't know anymore, you know, what's gonna happen. So it could be that, that they couldn't say anything, you know, if, if, if I'm, you know, I may wake up tomorrow or come back next week or come back in a month or, or never. Oh, geez. And, uh, so, and then again, the longer you stay in coma, you know, the more damage you're probably gonna suffer, the more, uh, skills you're gonna lose. And so basically, they told my family, you know, well, you know, we can't be sure when, when I, when I wake up, if I wake up as a, as a two years old, like, or I can't speak anymore or I can't do this.
So, uh, I can imagine. So I'm, I'm, I'm really sorry for, especially my family and my girlfriend. Back then, she went through quite, uh, difficult times, obviously as well, but now and and and, you know, it's crazy, but I, I kind of believe in these kind of things, like, um, a higher power, which I, I would never call God because in I don't believe in that stuff, but But God only, I mean, those different gods are only creating death and war and suffering in this society.
But if there is God, it should be some different power, like more, I don't know, universal or whatever you want to call it. But, uh, so anyway, like many, many people, like probably hundreds, or if not thousands of people, were, uh, thinking of me and, you know, praying, and not only praying in those conventional manners, but in basically any, any way, so, you know, calling for the energy of the universe and and and and all that stuff and and I, I tend to believe that this could have been the reason why I, I, I returned this exactly on my birthday, which is so cool.
So basically, that, that probably That day, that moment, so many people were, were thinking of me and, you know, wishing that, that I was there and back and and and I lived. So I mean, it could be
So I was, I was pretty cool. That's amazing. Do you, do you think there's, so I want to ask you about when you know, like, coming back to flying, but um, do you think because you got hurt the way you did, you know, flying a six meter wing, I know this is impossible because you didn't get hurt flying, but do you think if you'd gotten hurt like flying a normal paraglider, would it have been different, different coming back I
Could be, could be, but I mean, there always should be a difference between, you know, getting hurt and getting hurt, and uh, I mean, it's hard to—it's hard to think of a—of a situation, what would be—if, you know, would be—if, if, but um, I don't know. I, I really don't know, but for sure, getting hurt with something, you know, you are not, like, you know, necessarily on the top of the gaming. Like, I, I did some speed riding, but I was not top of the game, and I'm not really a good skier either, so I can somehow comprehend more why that happened.
And obviously, if I, I know, let's, let's say, you know, Alejandro Rodriguez, the, the small brother of, of Felix and Raul, died from doing a misty flip low over ground and then twisted up and entered a spiral and, you know, had no time to, to sort it out. So, and, you know, a misty flip was something he did like thousands of times, thousands of times. Yeah, and okay, I know he, he did it with the glider. He was not—he didn't knew it very much. So, again, there is, you know, that point of, okay, that was probably the glider. He didn't know, he was probably not supposed to do that maneuver that low, even though he did it thousands and thousands of times with another glider, and, and, and doing it, it low and stuff.
But, but you can still kind of find A reason why, why it happened, because of a different glider, because that different brake length, because the different behavior, that was something something just a little bit different that, that made that, that small difference did
You, you was there? Um, was there thoughts when you started kind of coming back and realized you were going to be okay? And you know, obviously tremendously horrific rehab and stuff, you know, coming back from something like that, but it was their thoughts of was flying different for you? I mean, was there thoughts of, "Man, maybe I shouldn't do this," or maybe your family, or, or was it just a matter of kind of overcoming the accident and getting back to it as soon as you could?
Yeah, actually, I was really motivated to get back flying and get back doing everything I love to do. And coming back flying, actually, the first time I flew again was in Canada. You know, we met at the Pemberton Nationals, the Canadian Nationals. No,
I wasn't there. No? Ah, okay, sorry.
But just before that, I actually did my first flight, and then I did the comp, which was quite fun.
Was that still in 2012?
Yes, it was in August. It was in August of 2012. Yeah, 2012, so it was still, it was quite early and um, I, that, that was, I was really happy I was told to to to get back flying and it felt like the right thing to do and it felt like the the right time. But, uh, actually in October I had another accident. I, I didn't publicly communicate because because it was just way too embarrassing for me, and the rehab from that accident even took longer than the one from Zermatt because it was basically ripping my kneecap into many pieces, and that took some time to recover, and it was terrible.
But I mean, it was—it was for me, it was way worse than like emotionally and and motivation-wise, it was way, way worse than than the big accident before, because you know that the big thing happened and you know, you know I came out, I I I survived, I I didn't die. That was—that was a big thing, and uh, and I was so—I felt so blessed to to to have another chance. And oh man, it was—it was—it was great. And and then, you know, I I basically started to do everything I I really wanted to keep doing. And um, and then I had a uh, a really bad landing, like wingsuit base jumping, and I basically like crashed into rocks with with some back wind and and I broke my knee pretty bad.
And, uh, well, that felt—that felt like extremely stupid. That felt, imagine just basically coming back from a from a life-threatening accident and then and and and after all the rehab and all the work and and, you know, while you know people questioned your mental abilities because, uh, anyway, it was kind of communicated, well, not very smart, I would say. So, my accident while I was in the coma was not very well managed from um the public point of view that that that basically, you know, I could be just a retard now because, you know, because I had a, I had a, I had a head injury, you know, I was, I was in coma and and and so on and so on.
So it was not quite clear what actually comes out of all this and, uh, and, uh, well, and then, and then I have another accident, so, So, uh, that felt really stupid and, uh, and especially the way back, the motive to get the motivation again, to, to come back from, from, from an accident. That's not life threatening, but in a way it takes even more effort to get back like health wise and takes even longer to, to leave the crotches, to, to be able to walk again, to be able to run again, to be able to bend your knees again, and you know, like all that basic stuff.
So, and and I guess that serious like, first obviously the the big accident, and then again this this stupid mistake that could have been like easily, easily avoided. Uh, I mean that that was a, that was a big, um, throwback.
Do you, do you find, I, I, you know, my first really big film project I'd done tons and tons before that, that were much smaller scale. But the first big one I did with, with Red Bull Media House was with Will Gadd on, on the, the Rockies project in 2014. And, you know, he, he'd been a Red Bull athlete for so long. Um, and he'd done, you know, he called them rodeos. He'd done so many rodeos, you know, so many big big film projects that, um, he, one of the things he talked about, you know, really rammed home because he could see that I, you know, I, at that point I was still, you know, I hadn't, I'd only been flying, I think eight years and, and, uh, I was kind of known to take a lot of risk. And I think that was one of the reasons I was able to become a good pilot fast or faster because I, I, one, I'd put a lot of time into it, but I was also, you know, probably taking too much risk, not probably.
I was, and and and will has, you know, a very—he's been at it so long that and and, for the most part, pretty injury-free, you know, like tweaking fingers and stuff, ice climbing, that kind of thing. But yeah, and he, he just kept saying over and over, you know, like, "Listen, it doesn't matter that we're making a film. Those guys can just film what they get. Just, you got to be a pilot and you, you got to be safe. And it, you know, if you get hurt for the, for the cameras, that's just the stupidest thing in the world." And I know I'm not comparing your base accident to that, but do you find that because of the profession and Red Bull and the sponsors, do you, does that Does that pressure you? Does that is there, is there a good and bad side of that?
for sure it has a good and bad side especially when you have a camera running it's it's it's it's, it's a huge, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a real safety factor. It's, it's, it's really bad for your health. If you have a camera, I mean, I mean, nowadays, nowadays it's, it's, it's, it's totally normal that everybody has a GoPro and, uh, and films everything. And, um, Um, it's a good thing because you can, you know, look back and analyze your your flight or whatever your tricks and and and get better doing so. But for sure, there's a, you know, with Facebook and YouTube and and and all this stuff going on, there's a huge push of, you know, having to bring bring out something more spectacular, more hardcore, closer, faster, better, and so on.
And for sure, this is definitely a big source of accidents, just because people overdo things. In my case, in both of the cases, it was, I don't feel like it played a big factor.
Um, I actually had cameras running in both cases, but in the, in the first case in Zermatt, I lost the camera in the crash. Um, in the second case, I have it feeling it's, it's, but it's just a big embarrassment because, um, you know, I could have done much better. I could have avoided that.
Um, but I mean, you can't blame the sponsors themselves because the sponsors actually, you know, are a good thing. And um, I would say, you know, many people ask me this, but I never felt like being pushed by Red Bull to do things that are too dangerous. Like, if it was too dangerous, then I told them, "Look, this is this, I, I will not do this. It's too risky for me," or there's just too much uncertainty, or for whatever reason, you know, I don't feel good about it. Unless they say, "Okay, okay," you know, they don't, they, they never want you, yeah? No, they don't push that. They are not stupid; they don't want to push you into an accident. It's not good for anybody, right? And uh, and they very rarely come up
With ideas, hey, you know, we we figured out, you know, you could do this or that. And I mean, especially not in paragliding, because they don't usually, they don't know, they don't have so much knowledge to actually know, you know, if you can do certain things or not. But obviously, they came up with some ideas that those were usually not necessarily doable, or just too complicated, or maybe too much risk. But you can always say no. And the other thing is, I think probably like another typical situation where it's, it's hard to say no is, you know, having a show when And, you know, you know, there are like thousands, maybe even ten thousands of people waiting to see your performance.
And, you know, you really want to perform. You have that motivation from energy from inside. You know, you want to do that because you want to, you know, it's not about showing off. It's more like, you know, showing, well, obviously your skills, your performance and obviously in a way kind of showing off. But, but basically, you want to impress the people, you want to show them you know what you can do the best. And everybody has to know his limits, and and especially the limits of, you know, the wind or turbulences or whatever. And, um, but well, many, many accidents happen during like show flying or or competitions, competitions, because people just keep, just tend to push just a little too, too much.
And, uh, it happens.
Pal in the last, usually this is a question I ask right at the end and we're not at the end. I got a lot more stuff I want to go over with you, but you know, your two accidents in 2012, um, you know, looking back from when you started to fly in 16, I like to ask this question, like, you know, what would you say, you know, imagine you're a 50 hour pilot, But, you know, imagine you're back at that first year, you know, what what advice did you maybe get and didn't follow or what advice do you wish you would have gotten? In other words, what would you have changed? You know, when you look back at your flying career, what would you like to impress on people that are maybe just getting into the sport or maybe dealing, you know, kind of locked into intermediate syndrome, you know?
Well, it's a good question. I think I can't really say I would have changed something because basically I was just following my instincts and following my passion and it took me down this road. road. And, uh, it was obvious that, I mean, accidents can happen and probably will happen, which I mean, I had two, two accidents earlier, uh, breaking first, like quite low airtime pilot. I broke my arm like stupid, like super typical beginner mistake, small landing place. I misjudged, uh, you know, power lines came, I stalled out, so quite typical stuff.
And then, and then I broke my ankle from a ground spiral over high grass. Uh, I knew these things can happen, and I mean, I took this in consideration, but I really just, I had this, this, this... This crazy motivation to, you know, learn more and keep progressing and and and just do more and more and more, and um, that was kind of natural for me. And and uh, I just I just did everything I I had to do to to feed this this these needs. And, you know, this is different for everybody. I mean, some some older gentlemen might be just super happy to, you know, glide down in in in in in calm air and then, you know, drink a few beers and and and talk about it a few hours and still be really happy about what they experienced and and and be totally satisfied.
And this is, I mean, in a way, different for everybody. And I think the most important thing is just that everybody, you know, finds what's his thing and what makes him happy. And and and it's, I mean, not everybody needs to to get into competitions and and fly 100k cross country or or do acro or do whatever. It's uh, it's it's it's a personal preference who who uh wants to progress more, who is happy with with, you know, just gliding down or or soaring on the beach. And this is really beautiful about paragliding that you have so many different styles of flying, so many different you
know ways to to enjoy, but but for for those guys who you know are happy about you know just gliding down and basically do those very they consider safe activities, that's probably I mean, they are probably in way bigger danger than the guys who are pushing like hell, because those who are pushing hard, they they progress to to a higher level and they um have a higher routine. They are, you know, even though I believe, even though they are flying more and they, you know, that's a good point, they might they're training might risk might risk more, but they are much more in training and so they can uh avoid those dangerous situations or they know what to do when they get into one and and and the low low airtime pilots, even though they feel like, ah, you You know, I only fly the weekend or, you know, just a few times in a year or so, but they are actually the ones being in, in, in danger because, because,
well. We talked
about that on a, a recent show. I was reflecting on that after the X-Alps that I think a lot of people, you know, see, see the, the, the people competing that is really daredevils and, you know, and taking really huge risk and. Wow, that's true. It's true. You're right. But I, but at the same time, I feel like, you know, I think there's a lot of pressure on the weekend pilots because, you know, maybe they only have one day, one day or two days a week and the forecast isn't as good, but they, you know, they try to fit it into something that's, that's not right. You know, they try to make the day work on a day that's above their, you know, and you don't, you don't have the flexibility. flexibility, I think you know, when you're a full-time pilot or you really have a lot of time, you don't have the flexibility to just walk away as easily.
I think there's a lot, in some ways, there's pressure on them.
And, uh, and again, they don't have the routine as well to say no, because they just, they are there to fly, and they, they want to fly because it's the only time of the week they can. And, well, that's when shit hits the fan, yeah. And, but as well, they, you know, I believe those guys, I mean, it's okay, you know, nobody, not everybody has the privilege like us to, to, to live out of flying and, and to live for flying in a way. And, uh, but people have to realize that there is, there is a lot to, to learn and practice even without actually going to fly. So I think those, those who don't have the time to go flying, but still, I'm sure that most of the people would have the possibility even after work, even, you know, if mountains are not close by, but even just go out to a field and do ground handling, because that's, in my opinion, that's a very, very key practice and the very base of glider control.
And you can learn flying without actually, you know, getting airborne and being in safety on the ground. Obviously, accidents can happen there too, if you, if you, if you go on the limits in higher winds, but but this is this this will actually teach you active flying on the ground and this is as well Well, something I will express in my upcoming instructional video that, you know, there is a lot to learn through ground handling and people really extremely, extremely underestimate this. And, and, you know, it's, it's, I think it's really, really bad that, um, nowadays the practices, well, the schools obviously get as many students.
Get you certified, get you through the
school, get you the rating. Yeah,
exactly. So now, so now, uh, instead of teaching the basics in the basic course, which is for me like ground handling, so in especially in the Alps where you don't necessarily need a reverse launch for taking off, because as soon as you have that amount of wind on launch, that you could reverse launch, it might already not be the beginner conditions to fly because you either have strong thermal or you have phone or just you know front coming in and strong wind on takeoff, so you should not be flying anyway. But, but I mean, that's that's just terrible, terrible thing that that you know, basically the ground handling became a different product.
Ground handling course became another product they are selling like some kind of advanced technique for, you know, like bullshit, yeah. So, 100 and uh that's
This is what's cool is, it's uh, I, I hope we're changing the tide a little bit with that, just with this podcast. You'd be amazed how often ground... we actually did a whole podcast on ground heling, but the uh, you know, the... it's, it's cool that the top pilots, but especially the acro guys, of course, because you guys are just dance with your wings on the ground, have really rammed that home. And so hopefully we're, yeah, but anybody can do that. Everybody should do that. Everybody should do
That absolutely everybody should do that, even the old guys. Obviously, you don't have to be like jumping and and whatever, you know. There's there's a lot, a lot to learn. Ground handling, I have my still a lot to learn ground handling because, you know, I'm not the best at it. I'm it's okay. I I'm safe enough for for most wind conditions to take off, basically most places. But uh, yeah, anyways, yeah, it's a difference, yeah.
I'm glad you, glad you bring that up. Okay, we're gonna transition to cross country here in a sec, but for the, for those that want to learn, um, acro, uh, where, what are the? I saw a really cool post the other day by Theo the Blick about, you know, that recommending that, um, uh, you know, if you're getting started in acro, you should start on a really nice B. You know, don't, don't get a freestyle way, don't get an acro wing. So, oh yeah, talk about, talk about, you know, what, what should people be, you know, where should they go, what should they do? Um, maybe, maybe talk a little bit about SIV as well, and then we're, then we'll transition cross country, okay?
So then, um, I take the opportunity to do some advertisement, so perfect. So, uh, well, it's, um, it's, uh, the biggest, biggest ever project of mine, uh, that took, or it's still taking like three years since the beginning, and it's still not finished due to basically problems with the personal I've been working with, and because it's a huge project, so it's ending up being four hours long, and it's gonna be called Master Acro, and it's, well, it's about learning acro, especially the basics, from from spiral dive to asymmetric sat and helicopter, and, uh, I'm glad you brought this up with Teo, and I, I didn't read this, but I'm really glad that, that Teo told the same thing, because that's exactly what I will be communicating through these videos.
It's because people went way off course, people. I mean, thanks to the paragliding industry starting to produce and and market acro products and freestyle products, so now the newcomers think that, you know, to learn acro, they need at least a freestyle wing, if not an acro wing. And, uh, this is obviously the biggest mistake they they ever gonna make in their flying career because so and and it's so common, it's just so common these days that that youngsters, uh, you know, people basically after like one year of of making their basic course and they they end up buying whatever secondhand acrowing online because because that's what they see, that's what they see in all the videos.
Everybody's only flying with acro wings, you know, there's nobody or Just, I mean, you, you can't barely see any videos where, where people do like more than just the full storm, more than just the wing over with, with, with some kind of certified and, and, uh, and, and regular gliders and, uh, that's, that's, that's horrible. So, and, and back in the days when, when, when I started to fly acro, I was lucky enough to get my hands on an Aerodyne Dune, which was a THV-2. So nowadays, well, probably E and B or C, probably a low-end C wing.
And it was great, man. It was actually sold as a freestyler, but it still had the performance. I flew cross country with it. I flew like, even back then, with my low airtime experience, I flew like a couple of 100k flights, 140k over the flatlands of Hungary. And, and at the same time, you know, I learned a lot of things, basically everything, everything up to like helico to helico and tumbling and basically everything, everything except rhythmic start and infinity because that, that couldn't do this, glider didn't do rhythmic set. But imagine then changing to an accruing or freestyling, having all that knowledge already, knowing how those maneuvers go and, and work and, and, and having the routine of performing it at least on that kind of serial glider, which is slower, safer, the, the brake travels are longer, it doesn't shoot like a motherfucker and, and you know, it still has the dynamic, it still has the potential to perform those maneuvers.
And then you just have to, I mean, just adopt all your skills to, to a different glider, which is obviously, it's gonna be again, you have to relearn things, but, but then you're going to relearn things again from the basics and then build it up from there. And this is why in the Master Acro videos, I fly an Ozone Rush 4 in 95 % of the cases. Basically, I do everything with the Rush 4, which is a high-end B, tree liner with a shark nose, and you know, it's kind of a modern, nice,
you know, cutting-edge high and big glider. And and to prove the paragliding word that you don't need the fucking freestyler, you don't need a an acro wing, because all you're gonna do with that is twist up, up, fall into the canopy, and you know Make shit, so basically, basically in my videos, in each video of, you know, presenting, so, uh, spiral dive, uh, full stall, wing over, asymmetric spiral, and then even looping, and dynamic full stall, and helicopter, and asymmetric, uh, sat, uh, I'm, I'm doing it all that with the, with the Rush Four, and then only at the end of each section, I, I just quickly mention, you know, the differences, if you perform the same maneuver with an Aqua Freestyle lighter, what differences can you expect?
Because, so, I, and I build it up this way because I want the people to understand that they have to learn everything possible with a, basically, their, their, their normal wing, their regular wing, if, well, if they fly, obviously, if they fly a high performance rig, like a C or D, then better with a B, as well as, well said, because you can learn so many things, and people just, just ignore this fact, and, uh, that's, that's, that's, that's really, really bad for, for the safety of our sport. There's a lot of
crossover here isn't there like I, I remember my like Bible when I was first learning how to fly in 2006 was Jocky Sanderson performance free flying, you know, and they do some acro in that. And then he talks about, you know, the whole time in that whole series that he's on. I can't remember what the wing was back then, but it was a B. And he talked about, you know, just how important it is to, you know, you can do everything you can. What I'm saying is there's the same crossover in cross country that I think people really often mistake where they start thinking, oh, I got to get my first 100K flight or my first X. And so I got to get away with better performance and they move up too fast and they don't have the foundation.
They don't have the – I mean that's a topic that comes up on this show a lot is when to move up. And, and my, my answers, of course, it's always independent for person to person, but my, my analogy is, is kayaking, you know, like you don't, you don't, you really shouldn't go. I spent a lot of time back in the day, whitewater kayaking. And, you know, that we always talked about then was that, you know, you don't really go kayak class four until you're nailing every move in class three, you know, that you can hit every Eddie, you can hit, you can, you can, you can work the river, you're working the river. It's not the other way around, you know, then you're ready for class four. and then you're ready for class five but if you just go from three to six you're gonna die oh for sure you know yeah
Yeah, they what, but unfortunately we don't have these kind of well-structured rules or
Well, yeah, guidelines, and you just, yeah, I, I, there's a, there's a real gap, isn't there? Because it totally, and it also really depends on where you learn, you know? Is, is it the British? Is it the Swiss? Is it the United States? I mean, everybody's, it's a real scattershot in terms of, and like you said, depends on where you learn, and some schools don't, they don't really have a very good place to ground handle, so you don't ground handle, that's just, and
And so, so let me, I mean, I'm happy to—I'm happy you brought this up. And, and let me point something out. So, it's, uh, I always have to laugh when people think about acro as being more dangerous than cross-country flying, and that's really, really not true. And, and people who don't fly acro, they don't fucking understand that, because they only see the crazy part of it. And, uh, and they don't understand that by controlling your glider perfectly in the three-dimensional space, in all—basically controlling your entire polar curve, which people, you know, just control it like, like 99%
of the people can only fly their glider in the positive range of the polar curve, which is from minimum speed to full speed in best scenario, from minimum speed to full speed. But there is, you can fly backwards, you know, you can do a tail slide, a full stall. You can, and I don't even want to go any further than just full stalls and wing overs and obviously spiral dive. But the full stalls and the wing overs are the two elementary and most important maneuvers that should be part of some kind of a basic course or some kind of a basic license that people have to master, you know, before whatever, getting their like certification or the second one or whatever advanced thing.
Because most importantly, obviously, the full stall is your only chance in some situations, your only chance to avoid throwing a reserve or avoid getting into an outer rotation or, you know, correct a big collapse or a cravated wing. And the wing over, on the other hand, is is your your tool to maneuver around in three-dimensional space, um, on the limit, basically to max out your maneuverability, uh, with each glider and, uh, and you know, I, I am so upset every time I see one of those thousands of crash videos on YouTube, because because the the reason why people crash and get hurt is because they don't have a minimum skill of glider control.
which when they get into some kind of a stressful situation, then then of course, then they they tend to, well, block or or or just do the wrong thing and by not being able to to, uh, to perform a full stall like it was the the most natural thing, you know, yeah, like so obviously, how how do you expect them to source sort out certain situations without that knowledge? There is, I can tell you, there is no way. And And sometimes if they would stall, they would get into even bigger trouble than what they are already into. Yeah,
I think it's terrifying that, you know, maybe, you know, most people wouldn't even do this, but maybe they'll do an SIV a year. And maybe if they get the weather and everything goes right, they might get three or four stalls the last day of the SIV. And that might be the last time they'll ever do it, you know. Exactly. I mean, in the 2015 X-Alps, I had to full stall three times one day coming out of the Matterhorn in a horrific amount of wind. And like you said, if it's something you're really comfortable with, it's just not – it's a non-event. It's just nothing. You lose 10 meters and you keep flying.
Exactly. Exactly. And this should be the standard maneuver for all pilots. And then we would have basically, uh, we would not have like probably 90 % of the accidents with more ground handling and more full stores. It would be like the safety statistics would be like turning upside down.
That's great. I'm so glad you brought that up. Well, for those of you listening, we'll, we will have show notes when this goes live and, uh, and we'll have links to everything pal's talking about. And maybe it sounds like your project's not quite ready for release, but when it is, uh, make sure we, we, uh, we blow that up and put it everywhere. Thanks for, for doing that. Yeah,
just, I, I, I recently just had to fire the third guy I've been working with this project. So, and and the last two guys were, were editors basically. I already, I already pre-cut all the four hours of footage and every so, basically somebody just need to go over, uh, correct the sound, you know, the colors, and do some animations and basically just create a final product. I don't have time to, and I'm not, you know, skilled enough to trust my skills too, okay?
Well, cool. Well, this is a call out. You be careful, dude; you're gonna get a lot of emails because of what you just said. But yeah, they're, I'm sure though, now
It's, it's already on the way. It's, I don't have time for, for more good, good.
Well, cool. Well, I can't wait for that, okay? Well, hey, I... I want to be mindful of your time, but before you go, why the big gap between 2009 and 2017? Obviously, you had the accidents in 2012, but kind of fill me in on that. What was the experience of the 2009 X-Alps, and then why come back to it?
Thanks for asking. So, well, I didn't come back in 2011 because after 2009, I told myself, "Never again," really. But, um, yeah, because, well, it was obviously, it was, um, I—the the coin has both sides. I mean, obviously, it's it's one of the most beautiful and and and challenging and exciting, but as well dangerous event, you know, ever organized in in paragliding. And, well, back then there was no, um, resting time, so it was it was basically a night pass every night, which is now, which is, uh, today, most participants could probably not even imagine how, you know, it went down because because, you know, now like the athletes are thinking about the night pass as some, um, radical, mysterious, you know, like the crazy stuff.
And and and some of them, they don't even want to pull the night pass unless, you know, like super necessary, because it was it was really, really different style, and it made it even more radical. And, but luckily, they they made this new rule because, well, and even with this new rule that you have to stop so long every night, but After a few days, you just, just whenever you know the air is calm and maybe you have a slow climb, or maybe you have to be patient, you, you just start falling asleep. So it's still super exhausting and, uh, yeah, then came the accident and, uh, I
I don't know, it was a combination of of many things, uh, probably most importantly that I kind of felt this need and motivation to to prove myself that, you know, it's still possible, like I'm still able to, I'm, you know, I'm even after all this, I'm not crippled, and kind of to celebrate that in a way, and and but kind of also test, especially my knee, because it's that I have my knee and also my ankle that that was broken. So, but I was really motivated to just train hard and get fit again and test myself and my body to see if I could do it again, and I'm happy.
Yeah, it's an amazing journey, isn't it? Well, did you kind of have it in mind? Because it seemed to me, and again, this might be really wrong, But it seemed to me that in the last kind of three years, you were really chasing it in cross country. You know, you've done a lot of – you've been doing more World Cups. You've been doing more comps. You know, was it something kind of that clicked like back in 2015 or 14? Like, hey, maybe I'll give this another shot. I'm getting healthy again. I'm feeling good. Or was it really kind of a last-minute decision?
No, not at all. I really felt motivated to do more competitions and everything, but just before 2011, before I stopped the acro career, it was just really impossible. Then the big click or the moment, the big change came when I came to Ozone in 2014. So with Ozone, I got the tool of flying the best gliders and that really pushed me to compete more. But still, unfortunately, I could not by far compete as much as I wish to because the last few years, most of the world cups were always at the same time or or at least a few days where we're hitting
one of the air races, or some other event, or they would be just way too far and way too expensive. And, and, uh, and it didn't work out, but I will really, really, I, I still feel the same, and I still want to do way more, and I'm really like, I'm sitting on needles to, to do more than that, more of that. But, um, the moment still needs to come, and hopefully it will come soon, so
the the the 2017 race, um, you know, you you crushed it, even regardless of the 48-hour penalty, which must have been just brutal, uh, sitting there in Italy and and seeing people making progress and stuff. But what was—you share with me your kind of highest moment and your lowest moment of the race? Well,
Well, the lowest moment, if I may start with that, was obviously realizing the airspace violation, which I wasn't quite sure about until the next day. And it upset me like it upset me really bad because I was I was doing great. You know, I felt really strong, like physically. And I was flying really well. And um, and it upset me, especially because of my team, because of, you know, there were four people behind me working their ass off and and and doing a great job, and then basically me doing this, this stupid little mistake that um, the kind of you
know destroys everything in a way, and and and I felt really, I mean, not only sorry for myself, but but but more for them. And that was, that was a really hard moment. But then, when when I figured that that, like, I got the penalty and and, you know, the shit hit the fan, and then, fuck, I I started to feel like really emotional, and and then I was on the way up in a whatever, thousand four hundred meter climb time, somewhere in South Tyrol before Milan.
The first spot I had some coverage, I called my team and they put me on the speaker and then I told them, sorry guys, this sucks, but I don't want you to break down. I don't want you to feel bad about it. I'm sorry for the mistake but you know we're gonna just get get the the best out of it still and and and um
and uh, well, we we are racing, we are in a different race now, but anyway, we we're gonna keep racing and and that was cool. Then, then I had a pretty strong moment, I had to cry for some time and And on the top, on the same mountain, there were like three or four more athletes.
And I was super pissed. I took off way too early. I almost bombed out. And at the end, I did not. But it was great. And the positive or the highlights for me, I think I can honestly say that I think I never in my life flew that well as as as during those those 10-11 days, because I mean, even considering that, you know, I was really tired and and, you know, it's—you're not in the same mindset as if you, yeah, wait for the wait for the one of the best days of the year and then you go super motivated to the takeoff and fresh and, you know, all just, you know, you put everything on on that day and and go go full.
Obviously, you are likely to make better decisions and stuff, but considering all the conditions, um, I mean, the physical and mental load and uh and the whole x-ups thing, uh, I I have to say I Can only... I can only mention like one single mistake. I know I... I did a mistake, I could have done... done better. I could have flown a little bit more, but... but that's it. Like, it's one mistake I can really... I... and... and it's... it's awesome. I mean, I... I feel so crazy happy about it because... because I mean, sometimes the conditions were really tricky. Sometimes it was...
I mean, you know...
standard, yeah. Except, yeah.
like, like day three, when, when you flew over my head and I, you know, it was such a non-event, you know, it was like Nick and I got shaded out going in there and then you came in and, you know, I bombed and that happens in paragliding or whatever. And, you know, but then on the way back up, I tried to take a shortcut and I lost my phone and it was just, you know, it was an hour delay that turned into not getting to Tregal. You know, I launched later on with all you guys going the other way. Yeah, I think I
saw you launching below us.
Yeah, really cross, really dicey down there. Oh, yeah. It was blowing so hard. Yeah, and it was too – I flew just across the valley and then another little hop and you couldn't get in then. It was so south and so nasty that it was just – you just missed your window. And then, like you say, you have to – that was my really low moment that night, you know, just going, oh, what have I done? I went from third to last almost, you know. And uh, and but it was at the same time, it's like you just have to shift your mind, isn't it? Like, okay, I'm not this, I'm not gonna place now. It's that it's a different kind of race now. And then from then, once I, once I was over that hump, it was beautiful the whole way, you know? It's like, wow, this is... you just have to appreciate it for what it is, you know?
Exactly, and and and this is how I came to to the race. I knew there's gonna be suffering, I knew it's gonna be danger and all all that stuff, but but I also knew from 2009 that it's it's something really special and beautiful and and you just have to see the beauty in it and and try to, you know, put the suffering aside or at least like be able to to uh to make fun out of it in a way, like you know, to be laughing about the suffering. And it's it's really difficult sometimes, but but I mean, you have to figure something out because otherwise it's gonna be terrible. It's
a long way to go. So, uh, the the ultimate question: will you do it again, uh?
No, no, I, I don't think so. I mean, no, uh, yeah. So, I mean, I, I know I said the same in 2009, and then I came back eight years later. But the thing is, and that's different now, that, you know, what I learned from two X-ups is the preparation, the amount of time and effort and energy you put into it is not balanced by the result, by the outcome in any way. Like, you know, it's just basically even, even though when I registered for 2017, I promised myself, okay, well, I, you know, you, you probably gonna qualify.
It's not like I registered and I see if I get qualified or not; I knew exactly if I register, I will like most probably be qualified again, so so I just promised myself, OK, I will do this again, but I will not put so much effort into it because I have shit lots of other things to take care of. And, you know, a lot, a lot of other things happening in my life, which are in a way more important. And my health is as well more important than anything else in terms of like competition and result and fame and whatever. so and still do you look back at that
Um, sorry to interrupt. I just... do you do you think in some ways that that helped? And like, having having the distractions, having, you know, not taking it maybe as seriously as, for example, I did, uh, but you know, like I I I've thought about that a lot. Like, clearly, you know, Chrigel takes it probably more seriously than anybody, and he trains really, really, really hard, and obviously he's, he's amazing and he wins. But I, I wonder in your case, like you, you, you may be coming in so relaxed and not really having, um, you know, expectations or pressure. Maybe that allowed you to fly. Cause I, I fly differently in the X-Alps. I start worrying about course line and I, I, I make my mistakes are because I'm not as loose, you know, as when I fly normally, you know, I'm more tight.
I'm more, I'm more like, I know the move I need to make, but oh god, if I don't, if you know, if it doesn't work out, I'm going to be 10 miles farther walk. And so I don't do it, you know, and
Yeah, um, I think there's something in what you say. So, basically, not having such a big expectations, I think, certainly helps not to feel so much under pressure and maybe be able to make clearer decisions or better decisions, and and not to be so strict to yourself. But at the same time, I'm I'm a super competitive person and and uh and then I with this, I returned to my my original thoughts that even though I promised myself not to invest so much effort into this, but I did, and I could not help it.
I basically like my the last few months before, or let's say for sure the last two months, like completely, but completely, the exhaust took over my life. And and in terms of preparation, in terms of training, in terms of preparing, preparing basically everything, and and luckily, I I I was lucky enough to to get some last minute support and and and find the right people to to help this journey, uh, which was again kind of, you know, although I didn't really want it to, put effort into looking for sponsors and put effort into making this professionally and put so much effort into, you know, looking at the route and and and spending fucking hours studying the route and and and looking at tracks and then and then even, you know, drive down to to Italy and drive down to places and look at at certain things, but I did not
So much really flying the route that was still like a lot, and a lot of of of virgin territory for me, a lot. But but um, it turned out quite well and uh, but that's what I mean. So even though if I promise myself, "No, I will, you know, focus on on the on the more important things in my life," I I can't now. I prove myself that I just can't you tick the box, uh, take it, take I can't take it easy. I can't take it that lose because that's not that's not who I am. That's
not how I work, yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a major commitment, absolutely. It's, it's, it's a major commitment of your life, yeah. You have, you, you at least have one, one fan on the other end of here that it's, it'll be disappointed not to see you in the race because, man, you were fun to watch that. That was an awesome effort. You'll never know. Time does funny things. But speaking of time, you've given me way more than what I could have possibly asked for. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. That's a perfect place to end. And I can't wait to see this film when you put that out. We'll have to show that to everybody.
That, that sounds terrific. Uh, good luck with that project, good luck with Columbia, uh, and your girlfriend. That sounds like another amazing project. We didn't even get to talk about that. Very cool.
It's, it's, it's an awesome project, fantastic, but she's not pregnant, just to
yeah yeah right
Whoa, surprise? Yeah, right, right. We have a
we have a different kind of baby yeah Yeah. Right. Right. Let's keep that. Let's keep that private for now.
Okay. Cool. So wait a minute. Oh, you do have a baby.
No, I don't.
Okay. I thought you were talking about your land and then I was like, wait a minute. What? She's pregnant.
Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. The land, the land is the, the baby, the project. Okay. Okay.
That's, that's what I thought. And then I thought, wait a minute, am I totally misunderstanding here? You got a baby coming? No. Cool. Well, uh, yeah, I can't, Can't wait to show you mine. She's, she's a little angel, but pal, thank you very much, man. I appreciate it.
Yeah, we should, we should, uh, we should do some nice vol biv flying. You should show me the bv style. I never actually did any serious vol biv work, oh.
Man, you'd love it. Yeah, that would be a—that'd be an amazing project together, I think, with, uh, you know, with your background and my background, I bet we could put together something pretty fun. Yeah,
we just have to find Find the time for that. That's the most.
Bingo. Yeah, exactly.
Thanks very much. I mean, talk to you soon. Bye bye. Cheers.
Bye.
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