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Bye. Enjoy this talk with Nuno. I really did.
Nuno, so good to have you on the show. I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on The Mayhem. I think you're the first pilot we've interviewed from Portugal. So I'm really looking forward to this. And there's been a lot of requests for you over the years. And I've been following you and we've had quite a bit of contact over the social medias and stuff, but never had a chance to chat. So welcome.
Thank you, Gavin. It's a great honor to be on the show. I've been also following for a while, Mayhem. It's amazing the pilots you've been interviewing and sharing their vision and their stories. And yeah, it's a great honor to be on the show.
Yeah. Well, thank you. Before we started recording there, you were giving me a little bit of your background. I understand you live close to Lisbon and you were telling me kind of about the flying there and stuff, which I definitely want to hear. But I understand you've been at this game quite a long time. You've been flying for half your life. So how long is that?
Yeah, I started quite early. I was 17.
Just after my father, who always been an addict or very interested in aerial sports. After his military service, he was a paratrooper and he kept on going in aerial sports with skydiving. And just following general aviation. And suddenly there was this sport where you could just jump from a hill. You wouldn't need to fly off the plane. So this was really the early days of the sport, like early 90s. I don't know. And we were kids, me and my brothers. And we naturally followed his steps and we started flying as soon as we could.
So, yeah. It's a long time. I've been ever since chasing the good weather and chasing the clouds and go doing some competitions. But a lot of XC around and yeah, traveling the world a bit, meeting people, discovering cultures. Amazing. You know, I think that's what keeps us, no? With the paragliding thing.
Yeah. So let's see. You started when you were 17. And you just said you're 40. Right? So you've been, yeah, you've been at this for more than half your life. Yeah. Yeah. And does your family still fly? Do your brothers still fly?
Yeah, they do. I'm the oldest. My second brother, he's actually also really good pilot. Although now he's taking a break because family issues. He has three kids, three small kids. So not devoting as much time as before. We've, we've been doing a lot of things. We flew a lot together. I think we developed, um, we, yeah, we grew up our, as a pilots together. And um, my younger brother is, uh, actually a professional pilot in the military. He's an air force pilot, but they also, uh, flies paraglider, um, since early age. And every now and then he gets these, uh, glider off and goes for some soaring and, uh, uh, close to the place where he lives.
Just by the beach. So more, uh, kind of more relaxed flying, uh, not doing competition or XC, but he's the real pilot in the family.
Wow. Cool. Uh, well, I want to talk to more pilots like that to see, you know, the kind of crossover, some of the commercial pilots we've spoken to have had, you know, their, their training is they get a lot better, I guess, training that I think we do at the, you know, because they, that's just so adamant. That's what I'm saying. They can't have accidents. So they, they really, we did a show on this TM threatened air management that I had never even heard of. And I'm surprised a lot of that stuff isn't brought into the fold with hang gliding and paragliding. So I'm sure you've learned a lot from him.
Yeah. We share a lot of experience. That's for sure. That's for sure.
I didn't, I didn't tell you I was going to answer the or ask this. So it's kind of hard to do it on the spot. But when you think back at your. You're 23 years of flying now. Do you have a flight that still just really stands out? Just something that, oh, that one.
Yes. I mean, several. It's hard to condensate such a long time in just one single flight. But, you know, like maybe the longest I've flown or, I don't know, maybe the most successful while competing. Winning a World Cup task is always something. Or breaking 300 Ks from your home spot is never done before, never repeated. So it was just a perfect day. So that's kind of memories that stick out. But yeah. For sure. There's many more. I remember the early days, the first time we flew, the four of us together, like my two brothers and my father all the time.
All at the same time. It was kind of emotional.
Yeah. The first time I won this. Well, first and only. I've done it only once. But winning a World Cup task after 100 Ks and beating the world's best pilots out there really makes you feel somehow. Special, no? So these are the ones that stand out. Yeah.
When was that, Nuno?
That was back in 2012, I think. Yeah. One of my favorite places in Portugal is actually a quite famous place for championships. We had the European just two years ago and a couple of World Cups there, a World Championship way back in 2003.
This, I think, was 2012 or 13. I'm not sure right now. But mainly a perfect day in the area. It's known for sometimes quite tricky conditions. But when it's good, it's really good. It's like you have these convergence lines. You can go full bar cruising everywhere. And it's then jumping out of the convergence line. And you have to shift gears. Slow down. Slow down a bit. Then go full on again. And yeah. Closing 100 K triangle. Landing in the town or close to the lake. There's a quite nice lake nearby. This is one of my favorite places, as I said. And yeah. Winning at home, if I can say so, was really special.
I
was going to say, because that's quite unusual, isn't it? I mean, it's almost never the local hero that wins. Because they have such an imprint on what. Works and what doesn't. That, you know, it's hard. It's hard to be creative. And when new pilots come to town, they often, you know, because they don't know it as well, they can make some pretty fancy moves. So that that must have felt really good.
Yeah, definitely. And in fact, the next day or the previous day, I don't know, I totally messed up. So it comes to this conclusion. Yeah. The local pilot, maybe sometimes you're too much. Um.
You know, you know the place too well that you think, OK, this direction or the thermals there, they never work. And not knowing this is it might be an advantage. Definitely. Yeah.
You know, when you look back on that day, when you think back on it now, was there anything particular that you feel really helped? You know, anything you've been trying to access again, maybe a particular mindset or, you know, is it just things? Just went right that day.
Um, you know, at a certain point in my flying, we with our national team were having some mentorship from someone outside of the paragliding world, but with a really big experience and not just in life because it was an elderly lady. But professionally, she was dealing with like personal issues. She was a professional development group, dynamics and stuff like this. And she she really brought something that we could I mean, the whole team, not just me, use in paragliding. And this was if I can condense it to just just a couple of bullet points was just like realize what you're doing.
Understand why you keep doing it. And be totally aware of where you are, who you are and what's your fears. What do you fear the most? What do you want the most? So as soon as you if you are true to yourself and you can answer these questions, you you really leave what's restraining you from flying your best. You leave it on the ground. And whenever you take off, you're you're really making the best of your flying. And at the time I was really developing somehow. And this really, you know, meditating a bit on these questions.
And from time to time, everything came in place and I could really do well. That's when I some when when this period happened, I finally won my first championships. Even got some good success. I brought in some international big events. And this this task I was mentioning the World Cup was maybe the pinnacle of all that. So you're just it's what people really like many times when they say they're in the zone, they're just flowing. You know, everything comes together and everything comes out really naturally. You don't even question why.
Why learn the ground? You know, already for sure that you'll have a good one. And things just happen naturally. I think that that's what makes it for a successful competition or XC flight or flying in general.
What this lady is, she was kind of like a coach, I gather. And did she what kind of exercises did she give you or encourage you to do? Can you be more specific about what that kind of. Sure. Like.
Well. Like relaxing. Really.
Letting go of any. Any. How to say. I'm.
I'm. Sorry. I like the English word for this. Like any. Stress. You might have. Some. This. Dance. Feeling. That you. You. Have. While on. The. Ground. Still. even before taking off. Like once I made this test using a heart rate monitor during a whole flight, and I realized the highest peak of your heartbeat is just before taking off. So you're just there, standing on takeoff, and just anticipating this rush, this adrenaline for the flying, you have the highest peak before taking off.
So this is just mental. And if you can acknowledge this first and realize that you're somehow stressed or worried or tense, and you can really work on it, you'll be much more at ease, much more focused, much more relaxed somehow. So some exercises we like. One thing I learned from this period was how to visualize. Like you're still on the ground and you have a task, or you're going for a long XC, you studied the meteo, so you know what to expect. You should study the maps of the area you're going through, or if it's a competition, you know the turn points you'll have to tackle.
So one of the key things is to visualize. To go through it on a mental process in advance. So when you're actually flying it, it's just materializing something that your brain already anticipated. So it's done. It's already done. You'll just have to go through it. And this visualization thing, it really works. I mean, for me, it helped me. It worked. Also, the relaxing thing, how to breathe, how to focus.
And there are some exercises that really help you. Breathing is one of them. It's known that many top pilots you'll see on a takeoff, just before people start to take off, everyone has its moment of somehow isolation. You know, you'll see some guys putting their headphones and just listening to some music. Some other guys are just reading a book or some other guys are just laughing loud. It's a way to somehow get your stuff together, like really relaxing on your own way to isolate yourself from what's distracting you. Yeah. And these are some of the stuff we were doing at the time.
You mentioned when we were just talking before we started recording that you kind of went through that. It sounds like that was kind of the period where you were really performing well. Has that changed now? Was that kind of the peak? Or have you been able to maintain that?
I think I can maintain that, but I don't even think very much. About it now. It just comes out naturally. You know, you for a while when you discover something new, you really try and do this breathing thing and visualizing you close your eyes. You really anticipate what you're doing and you should really focus on this. You're I don't know you or you take extra care with the with the food. You're having the day before and during the flight you keep hydrated and stuff. And after a while this kind of becomes natural comes you absorb it as your your your regular routines and somehow how I feel it is that right now.
It's so natural that I don't even think about it. So maybe I even by not thinking about it. Maybe I lose a bit performance because I don't take it so seriously but things. Still come out naturally, you know, you you switch to to a different level. I would say when things really become the standard like you do this Nuno.
Is there is there anything were you in kind of any were you doing any kind of routine to get to a kind of access flow on a regular basis back when you were learning about this? I mean now you're saying now it's coming just more naturally. But was there anything you were doing when you were learning how to do it that people can.
Yeah. Yeah, I remember it really worked for me to activate or to calm down depending on my mood and my stress levels. I would say the music I would just put my headphones on and listen to some calm relaxed some music that would act like an anchor to me like I could relate some songs that are. That would take me to my safe place, you know, or to bring back some good memories from from moments where I would feel really really well really the flow and I would use this to to recall the same the same feelings.
So we would even call it like that anchors. So because they really it really has a powerful effect and with me it worked like if I. Yeah. Would feel that I was too stressed. I would put on some song that would make me feel calmer on if I would feel that no, I need to activate. I'm too lazy here. I need to get pumped up, you know, so I will put something else more like I'm a heavy metal guy fans. You can imagine the kind of kind of song that I would listen to. But it worked for me and with different kinds.
So I would suggest everyone could find their own like what's your favorite song when you that takes you back to a perfect moment. Everything was flowing or he brings back some really good memories and just put them put it on just before you take off. You'll see that you feel really good while flying. And
what about when you're in the air? One of the things I've been struggling with lately is is that I'm thinking too much because I, you know, before I launch I'll be thinking about okay. I want to be really observant, but I also I think I'm falling out of flow quite often when I'm flying because I'm trying to be smart. I'm just trying to fly smart. I'm trying to, you know, observe everybody else and think about the different lines. And you know it rather than just, you know, my best flying is always on autopilot. You know, when you there's a lot of crime that Adele has talked about this a lot. I've been emailing her back and forth a ton because she's done a lot of work on flow.
But you know, you have to kind of put the thinking part of your brain aside.
Yeah, I agree with that. I'm also kind of analytical rational guy, but I prefer to study and to think about. Stuff when I'm on the ground. If you overthink when you're flying, you're going to mess up. I feel it like you should more like follow your gut like, you know, don't don't calculate too much before making a move. No, if you have like a feeling like something tells me I should go there. Don't think why why should I go there and not the other way? No, just go. Just go. Just do it. And the most. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because you your your.
It's not your brain that knows too much. It's yours. Your own self. It's your like trust your intuition. Just let it a good a good friend of us. A good friend of mine, a great pilot, Portuguese pilot. He he already passed away, but he was one of the. The greats out there used to say something like this, like. Getting in the flow, that was his definition somehow. It's when you stop flying and you start being flown, you know, so it's just it's just the bigger thing that flies you. It's not you who's flying. You are flown. So it's I really can relate to this.
I it's when you just follow your intuition. You don't over thinking. I
think probably the prime one of the prime. There's many of this, but one of the prime examples of that would be like Manfred Ruhmer and hang gliding. You know, I think that just the decades that he's been able to dominate like he does and all the other pilots say that about him all the time. He just seems to constantly make brilliant moves that they don't. Others don't see. And I think he's just. Yeah, his intuition, you know, and and not worrying about it.
Yeah. Other thing that I noticed is something you mentioned. Others don't see. This is very important to being observant. I've had a couple of task wins in situations where I realized first, then other pilots. What was going on ahead? Like, especially when you when you're when the conditions are changing, like you're having. A tougher time struggling, going through a more stable area. And suddenly you see in the distance a small cumulus cloud coming up and then disappearing. So definitely something is happening ahead. And if you realize this before anyone else, you have the advantage because you can go full speed to this area and, you know, go over the inversion layer.
Or get the advantage just by making the move first. So being observant is really important, really important. And also knowing or realizing when you can really shift gears from slowing down and taking it easy and just surviving a more difficult area to a difficult part of the day. It can also happen on longer flights or I don't know. Cloud. Cover. Put some shade on the way and conditions shut down for a while. So knowing when to shift gears, it's super crucial. Like suddenly everything is booming again and then it's time to go full speed.
No, don't don't don't don't wait.
What do you think it is that separates, you know, I mean, I've given this a lot of thought, especially lately. I mean, it seems to me that. At that top level and at the world championships level and the Europeans and the World Cup, you know, that the skill level difference in terms of technical skill. I bet, you know, between the top 50 pilots is maybe a couple percent percentage points. It's very small. I mean, most of these pilots are really good at, you know, most of the aspects and they all know the same information. You know, it's like Russ Ogden said. I don't know. I think he said it on his show. You know, Chrigel, you know, a four-year pilot knows the exact same thing that Chrigel does. He's just executing everything better.
But when you look at I was just down at the British in January and it was surprising to me to see guys of pilots that had done really well the year before.
Like I know there was a lot of people like me that had done really well the year before and then just got smoked this time. And, you know, and you see that all the time, even at the World Cup level, you see, you know, you see that luck plays a hand and in other things. But you also see there are some pilots, you know, like Russ Ogden and Julian Wurtz, and there are some pilots that are just always in there. What do you think separates them from the rest? They are
consistent in their performance. I think it's also cyclic, no? We all go through ups and downs in our life. And this relates to your flying. Well, I must say this again. He was a great mentor to me. The same guy who I mentioned before, he also had a saying that I would never forget. Like, you fly the way you live, and you live the way you fly. So what does it mean? That your daily life, your social life, your family life, it reflects on your flying. So if you're stressed about something at work or things with your girlfriend are not so easy at the moment, it reflects.
So it means you're on a low or you're not in your best shape as you've been maybe last year. And it reflects on your flying. Sure. So I really... I think it relates. So I would say the pilots who are more consistent are... I mean, we could make a poll and test this out. I'm sure we would get these kind of results. Maybe they're the ones who are really mentally stable. They're not going through hard times emotionally or something like this or whatever. But also...
As you say, I also agree. It can be kind of luck. Maybe just the conditions were not what you're expecting. But mostly, I think it reflects your current state of your living, your daily life. I
also noticed something that there's... The pilots who have been at it a long time, and they've worked at it, and they've trained. Right. Right.
I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance.
I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I
think it reflects on their performance.
I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. I think it reflects on their performance. really well still. I agree. Do you feel like that's kind of happened with you because you've been at it so long that it's just, you know, you've done it enough that, okay, I've been here, I've seen that, I know how this works.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. It comes to a point when it becomes natural. You don't need to focus very hard on, oh, okay, so now I have to really relax because I'm tense, I'm going to take off, it's going to be a very hard race. So what was the exercise this
lady taught me 10 years ago? Ah, I need to breathe and just really imagine how is it going to be the thermals on this last, very last turn point and then, you know, you don't think about it. You're so relaxed, at ease with it that it just becomes natural. It comes out really, it's part of your nature.
You've been at this game a long time. What are you excited about these days?
That's a good question. As I said before, I really love XC and I fly quite a bit in my area all along the country because, okay, Portugal is not that big country, but we already, we have a lot of new routes almost. So we fly a lot into Spain and what excites me these days is to really study new possibilities because
I mean, I went all directions possible. Maybe at a certain point I had all the records from the main takeoffs in Portugal. I mean, the longest flights, but as I said, as well, we have a nice bunch of pilots, really good pilots, motivated with this XC flying and we're figuring out where to pull out the next big one. And the next big one being a 300k flight in this area, which is quite something because the solar window is not so big. So our flights, our big flights, you can't do it from May to the end of August, September maybe.
And on the best days you have like seven and a half to eight hours maximum. I think I've never flown more than seven and a half. And during these seven hours, I want to make the most out of it. So this is what motivates me right at this moment is to go big on my backyard.
Last year after the X-Alps, I was watching Revis, you know, one of my supporters went down and flew the pre PWC in Spain. I can't remember where that was. But the week before that, there was a Spanish,
I don't think they were towing, but I think they were pretty sure they were punching out over the flats. But it was like an open distance contest. Were you part of that? Because they had insane conditions. It was like a week and they just kept doing these 200 plus flights every day. Yeah.
Yeah. I was not there, but I followed and I know the area more or less. Yeah. 280. I think that was the biggest one from Francis. Francis Reina. And yeah, totally, that's the kind of flying we have here. The Iberian Peninsula is quite dry and quite hot in summer months.
So, as I said, we normally have sea breeze in. So constant flow from same direction all day for some days in a row. Then when these conditions settled, you can expect 3000 plus cloudways with a nice 20-25 K tailwind. And you know, it's very safe to go even with stronger wind because as I said, it's flatland flying. The dream conditions here is when you have a lot of air. you have convergence lines so this you just go full bar no need to turn just flying straight from cloud to cloud and um yeah pushing
it do you have any advice i know a lot of our listeners have they ping me all the time with confusion about convergence and you know that when you're in it you're just you feel like a god when you're not you're getting slammed um yeah do you have any advice for especially mountain pilots i think struggle with this quite a bit because they don't fly like myself i don't fly the flatlands very much what you're kind of looking for what you're feeling you know how to read the clouds do you want to be you know the upwind side the downwind side that you do you have any kind of um things to pass along about tips for flying conversions yeah
um some i hope to remember the the most important uh or at least to to can put it in words um as i said at a certain point this becomes almost natural but uh looking being observant uh on everything mostly not just what happens on on the clouds head like uh several people refer this and it's a common statement that you you have a usable altitude so you can divide in half if you're above this half you look up you look to the clouds ahead you look to other pilots to birds if you're on the lower half you should look to the ground i would say even if you're on a higher part if you really look ahead really far away you can you should still look to the ground looking for signs and signs in flatlands can be like smoke from fires from factories from whichever whichever other uh origins or like for instance windmills we have a lot of these uh
farms no wind farms so the windmills really can be really helpful because they show you um if like if in a relatively small area you see windmills pointing different directions you can just calculate where is it where it will be the the
convergence point or some thermal releasing yeah but mainly when i'm going xc i try to be really observant of this this these small things
where's your favorite place to fly that's
a tough one as well uh i remember really i really liked mexico by the bravo because it's for its strong conditions and again convergence lines in there it works amazingly it's a amazing place for this kind of race uh so it's one of my favorite places um although i although i'm a flatland pilot as i
i mean originally no but i really like the mountains so anytime i flew in the alps i fell fell in love with with the area so i really like um
this french region close to one c it's amazing it's one of my favorite places i remember one championship in marzine a bit further north was so good it was so good to fly in these mountains
So this is one of my favorite places as well in the Alps. I remember Santanderay on the Southern Alps. It was, well, it helps that I was, I also had a successful result there in a European championship. But it's an amazing area for racing paragliders. It's not so high mountains, but it's like a racetrack, I would say. Yeah. Everything works like in the books, you know, it's perfect. So apart from my own, from my area, but here in Portugal, we have three, four really good places for this kind of flatland flying.
I would say Southern Alps, Santanderay is up for sure. Mexico, Valle de Bravo, and maybe Macedonia. We... I mean, I've just been there twice and it's surprisingly consistent and it's a mix actually. Totally flat, but surrounded with some, well, some bigger than other mountains, but it's a really good place. Yeah. So these are my favorite. Macedonia
reminds me a lot of Colombia. You have the two mountain ranges on each side of the flats and you can kind of mess around in both and man, you can get a lot of hours. I've only been once, but I was, I was really impressed with there. It's a fantastic place to hold the comps. We're, we're constantly, you know, we need to hold more comps here. And we're always like, yeah, but when and where? Because it's just so hard to get the consistency.
Yeah. Well, I've never been there, but I heard in the US, Chelan is a really good place. I would love to go there.
Chelan is maybe my favorite in the world. All those places you just mentioned. I absolutely love, I, I, I tried to never miss Valle. I love going down there every year for them, at least for the Menarca, not more, but the, but Chelan is, Chelan is world-class man. And it does, it is consistent. It's, it's one of our few places where you, you know, if you get less, getting less than four tasks would be incredibly unusual. In fact, I don't even ever remember getting less than four, but usually, usually you get seven out of seven and it's just, man, it's cool. Yeah. It's a great place to race. It's a fantastic place to race. It's terrific.
I would love to go there. I heard from several friends that it's really good and really, really exciting. I would really love to go there. You would
love it because you like strong conditions, obviously, in the places that you fly and it's, it's strong. The, the flatlands there are really wild because they have, it has this very, very soft dirt. So you can see all the thermals that you can hit. They're all dust devils. And, uh, and it's so you can see them and it's, it's, and it's crazy scenic. And you, you know, you, you, you launch off a mountain, you fly across the Columbia gorge, which is, you know, massive river. And then you go out in the flat sometimes in the last couple of years, we've also done tasks that stay in the mountains, which are really neat, you know, cause you're kind of on the edge of the Cascades there. So it's just a really cool environment to fly in. And then of course, on the, on big days, you can go a long ways. You know, there's been some, the day.
They set the distance record and a comp. I think the comp was like 226 K and they had 60 people in goal. There's a whole bunch of personal best that day, you know, Henzie, Henzie tag goal and kept going. He went 300 and something K that day.
Where do I sign up? Just, uh,
it just went live. You can sign up on air Tribune and it's, I think it's July 18th or 19th this year, which is a little bit later than it usually is that, but it should still be there. It'll be really good.
Great. Yeah. Come on over. I'd love to show you it. It's a, it's a fantastic site. So comp flying is still, you're still doing quite a bit of comp flying as well.
Yeah. I mean, not as much as I would like, because I really like to hang out with this, uh, with this tribe. No, you're all belong to, to a flying junkie community. No junkie in a good sense. I mean, of course. No. No, I really like to, to, to, to fly among friends, um, and to, to, to race. It's where you really learned it's in a comp because you can go 50 times on crossing cross country flying by your own. You'll have 50 chances to, to analyze your, your decisions and decide in the end if they were good or bad, if they were, uh, successful or not.
On a comp task, you do this all the time because you're surrounded with so many pilots that you'll see it on life. If you're deciding good, if you're taking, uh, making a good assessment and really taking out the most of the day. So I really like this, uh, uh, performance kind of flying. So yeah. Comps keep me motivated for sure.
Yeah. And. And 2011, you did the X-Alps. Tell me about that experience.
Well, that was a milestone, uh, not just in the flying, but in my life as well. It was, um, I didn't, I didn't do, uh, particularly good. So I survived one week. It was really tough. The, the conditions on that year
was epically bad.
Yeah, it was really bad. The first. The first day was okay, but then we had four or five days in a row with a strong wind and rain. So while I was flying the first day, I could really do well.
Um, then actually I got a couple of penalties that got me grounded for a while and I lost a lot of time to my opponents. And, uh, I ended up being, yeah, the first day. I got, it was just booming on the Salzburg area going direction to Dachstein. And I, and I virtually went into airspace by 20 meters or something. And you got me a penalty. Yeah. But anyway, it was a really great experience, like a big achievement, like, um, I would say, um, uh, self accomplishment, you know, like.
Yeah. If you how I see it now, if it's like, if you really focus on something, you set up a goal for yourself. It doesn't matter which kind you really can make it. If you put the right motivation and effort into it. So it was a really something special. Definitely. When you say it was very hard, very hard to the preparation and the training for such a. short outcome in the end but definitely amazing experience
did you did you pull out because of injury or you were eliminated I
was eliminated in the end but I was also really having a hard time because I suffered really hard from huge blisters on my feet so I was in big pain at the time I got eliminated I wouldn't have gone much further actually so and
in the race this year watching the videos of oh it's not Hanjin the Korean pilot gosh I'm drawing a blank right now but
oh my god they were so nasty because my my feet in 2015 when I got to Monaco at the next morning Bruce literally had to put me on his shoulders to carry me to the bathroom yeah I mean my feet looked like somebody beaten on him with a hammer and they were so nasty but when I watched Jikyong's feet I was like oh I don't think mine were that bad and he just kept he kept pushing oh it's just so oh it's so much pain that hurts so
bad I remember at a certain point I was such in big pain that somehow the mind switched off from the body you know you're just floating out there you you you cannot hold it anymore and the only way to kind of go through it is really switch off your auto mode like this was really uh something that um uh you know it was really something interesting to to experience this this thing it's not uh um like I heard some other people saying from different uh events in life like you when you have an accident or a big shock or a big pain and you kind of see yourself floating above your body now I really experienced this while going on a road after you know getting into the dolomite area in uh border with Italy I was just floating above my body it's not it was not me you know it's crazy it's
Nate my buddy Nate who lives down the street from me he's a real mentor for me and been flying a long time he did it in 2007 and he always said you know there's only there's only one one way to get to that place and
he said you know you're not going to be able to get to that place and
in the ex-alps you will get to that place it's guaranteed and you know it's it's it's interesting because you know pain is something our our brains send us pain to protect us and it's trying to say okay that's enough you're doing a lot of damage stop doing this because you don't stop that's the message yeah because you don't stop I think that's when you get that separation because it happens a lot in the race where you're just it's it hurts like you can't believe and then
you're like oh my god I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die and
then it's gone because I think your brain just goes okay I obviously you're gonna keep going so I'll let you let you be calm for a little bit but yeah it was it was one of those things where every morning I'd wake up and it was just vicious you know I mean I could only walk it like two and a half k an hour for the first 10 minutes and then it'd get a little bit better and then by 40 minutes it was gone I couldn't you know and I I don't know if it was just numb you know just like the numbing took over or if it's just my brain gone okay well I'm
gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die
whatever and then I'd be normal I'd be fine all day that you know but it's yeah that's that's vicious well um other hike and flies have you done like the x-peer or anything else or have there been any other ambitions since the x house
no not really not really as I said it was quite an experience I really keep it as a one of big milestones in my life for the for the whole thing uh but I haven't done much more I can fly I I participated a couple of times on the dolomite and man though although it's a different concept but it's also fun it's like a team event and it's um yeah it's different you have a bit of running but it's just so fast and it's over then uh but no more I can fly actually Portugal being a kind of peripheral country we are really far away from the Alps or from where most of these events happen so I'm not sure if I can fly I'm not sure if I can fly I'm not sure if I can fly I'm not sure so I haven't done much just a couple of on my own um hike and fly here on my backyard going with the mini wing and stuff but just a regular weekend flying not not really participating in more events um the ex-alps was really a milestone and I keep it like that but it was also really hard the whole preparation and stuff so I didn't even consider uh applying again it's more like being there than that okay maybe if I at the time could uh have managed the kind of biggest support or a really good sponsor I would consider doing it again but this part was really high time and energy consuming to the preparation thing so I've never considered doing it again yeah
it's a it's a massive undertaking
um I promised myself that I wasn't gonna go you know do some shows without talking about you know accidents and safety we've been talking about that a lot lately but I'm just curious in you know 23 years of flight have you ever been hurt or have you ever had any close calls I've
never been hurt I had a couple of close calls but but not so close actually I've been able to keep it on the safe side I once uh landed on a tree got hanged for a while because I was too low to to throw my rescue but that was it the trees were there so there are best friends you can get when you get in trouble like this but um never had any major problems that I couldn't solve in good timing so but unfortunately I've been I've witnessed a kind of quite a few uh really bad and this yeah it shakes you for sure it makes you think know what you're doing and really uh yeah get your head straight and understand why you're doing this and if you really love what you're doing then you keep it otherwise it's uh yeah witnessing an accident or seeing a friend get hurt it's really a eye-opener yeah
you know I've been working on the the book you know we're doing a with cross country magazine we're putting together a book of kind of the highlights of the first 100 shows and it's been really interesting going back and listening to them all and hearing the various different advice that we get on on this topic and the one that keeps popping up over and over again is to make sure a you ask yourself that question you know why are you know is the risk worth it and why are you doing this that's a very good question to ask and not just once but repeatedly you know all the time to kind of re kind of keep checking in with yourself but the other one is just to make sure you're doing it for the right reasons and that's that's been kind of interesting because it's it seems like well that's just seems automatic why wouldn't we be doing it for the right reasons but you know in a long career such that you've had and I've been at this now quite a long time too you do have your lulls and you do have times where you're really on it and you do have times when you're really not and it's good to check in isn't it with with that and you know where am I today where am I right now and and like you said you know When you have the different factors in your life that are affecting you, as we all have, jobs and relationships and everything else, that can play a major role.
So if you're not doing it for fun and enjoyment, then you really should be thinking about not doing it. Because what's the point?
Definitely. I recall three questions that bring you back to this self-assessment, self-awareness, if you're doing it for the right reason or not. And I can share with you and everyone else, maybe, to question themselves. Because these same questions were asked me, and it really makes you think. The first. Why did you start flying?
The second is like, why do you keep flying? Why are you still flying? And the third, which may not even be connected to flying itself, but in life in general, is what's your biggest fear? And if you have these three answers clear on your mind, maybe you're... You're aware of where you stand. And if you're doing it still with the same enthusiasm and still with the, you know, aware of the risks, aware of the passion, if you still have a passion or not. If you don't, maybe it's time to consider something else. Or if the answer to the third question is so overwhelming or not, or doesn't put you at ease with what you're doing, then maybe you should also consider.
That's the first one. The whole thing. No. And yeah, that's just, it seems very innocent, but it can be, it can really help you to, yeah, self-assessment somehow.
When I look back at my own experience, not just with flying, but life, the times I've gotten in real trouble have been when I've forced it. And I think that when you force something, you're trying. You're trying to put yourself, you know, you're square, trying to put yourself in a circle. It just doesn't fit. Yeah.
If you could rewind the clock to your 50 year, 50 hour self. So back when you were 17, 18 and learning how to fly on the coast of Portugal, is there any advice you wish you would have gotten or something you would have changed in your career of flight?
Yeah.
Not changed, but maybe be aware of it at the time, like surrender, surround yourself with more experienced pilots than you absorb the small things that you, they share with you after a day flying or just having a beer after landing and really learn from them. Because if you're a beginner. And you're just out of.
Paralyzing school and you're just by yourself, you'll take ages to get to a confidence level that allows you to really profit from, you know, to really take your your evolving as a as a pilot successfully and into a good term. Otherwise, if you're surrounded with more experienced pilots. They always have something that you can learn from that you don't have to experience it yourself because that's how to to really make it faster. This progression.
So that's my advice for a low airtime pilot. So stick with the gang. Go flying together. Don't don't stay by yourself. Go with the friends. Yeah. Just share all these things. And then I've done this mainly with my brother and we were motivating and helping each other. Also sharing a lot of what we were experiencing at the time. But I remember it was really good for both of us at the time that some older guy, very experienced pilot at the time, he would almost take us as his protege. No, these. Like. Kind of mentoring us and giving us confidence.
Yeah. Should try this lighter now. You like it. Go and do this and that and that. You have good like practice your ground handling and you'll feel at ease in the air. Don't be afraid of this. You know, so just don't be by yourself. Share things into get integrated in your local club, whatever, and go flying together. Yeah. This helps a lot.
No. Last question. How has. Flying changed your life. It's defined much of your life. Had been at this. Over half of it.
Yeah. Well. A lot. Actually. Most of your free time. Your. You're. You're not thinking. Your next weekend.
Or your next holidays. It. As regular people do, I think, you're not thinking, okay, let's go and discover this new country or travel to this other city. No, you're going to a flying spot, actually, right? You take the paragliding as an excuse to fly, not the opposite.
So mainly, I think I don't speak just for myself. No, all of us that fly for a while, you get to this point that everything is around the flying. And you walk outside always checking out the birds and, oh, look at these clouds.
We
spend a lot of time wandering around with our heads up in the air, don't we? My wife is constantly just like, what are you looking at? What do you mean what am I looking at? I'm looking at the possibilities. It's up there. It's not down here.
Yeah, even like it changed my life in a really permanent way, if I can say so. Like I met my wife at the comp. So she is also flying. So we have common goals in this. And sometimes we even laugh at ourselves, even like watching a movie. And there's a very intense scene going on. And the comment we make is like, whoa, look at that nice sky in the background. And we don't give a damn about the speech or about the, you know.
That's great. Okay, well, then I lied. That wasn't my last question because I didn't know that. It's super interesting to, I'm sure, have a partner who flies. Tell me about that.
Yeah, it sure is.
You make plans together, actually. Yeah, we do. We do. We decide what's the plan for the next holidays is where are we going to go flying, no? And to have someone that understands this passion and you don't need to put it into words because she knows. Right? Like how do you explain someone who doesn't fly that you really need to go chase this cloud streak that you see at distance? There's a really good formula. I mean, you know, you have a really big forecast for the weekend, really massive day coming in. And you really need to go flying. How do you explain this to your partner that you're going to miss the family lunch or family gathering?
Because there's something really much more important than this. You don't need to explain because she knows when she's a pilot herself as well. So this is a big advantage, I would say, for couples that were both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the sharing of the same common passion somehow. Yeah. And actually, we've been actually we've been flying quite a lot together in even longer. See, I would say my wife, she became quite a good XC pilot and she really likes it. She also has some interesting.
Not just. Accomplishments, but something some really interesting events, even life changing because she had the ones like a cloud suck. She and this was very at the same time disturbing. But on the other hand, very, I would say almost enlightening or enriching in her life because she went through some some very intense moments. Being cloud sucked to up to 5000 meters inside the clock. Anyway, just just a side story we could maybe develop from this for another episode.
If you like.
Yeah, that sounds I want to hear about it right now, but I've got to run to this appointment. But that sounds crazy. Holy cow. That's that's scary.
Yeah, but she she.
She's a really good. Good day. We studied the weather together. There was no risk of over development. Just really perfect cumulus. High cloud base and stuff. We went over 200 together, both of us and some more bunch of other fellow pilots. But there was this one cloud that really had. Um, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe a stronger thermal close to base. And this one grew a lot more than the surrounding clouds. Uh, and she got disorientated. She got lost in the inside the cloud and she couldn't figure it out how to how to to to manage this somehow.
And when she finally got spit out of the cloud, she was really high. She was five. Thousand four hundred meters somehow. Hmm. The ice layer. Uh, uh, uh, in whole her wing and glider and harness. Very cold. And yeah, she mentioned to this as a.
She's she's seen the other side, you know? Yeah. It was, uh, quite intense.
Probably a bit. Probably. But she doesn't lose, uh, the, the, her consciousness. I mean, she was aware of time.
No, no permanent. I don't know. Just at the time. This, uh, the moisture just, uh, froze on her and it was quite cold, but she managed to finally come out. And, uh, yeah. Then she had a long, long, long glide down to earth and to digest all this and to, yeah, actually it was scary. But as I said, uh, um, like it's, it's the kind of events that make you question again, why are you doing this and why do you keep doing this? And your biggest fear, what is it? Is to, to get hurt?
To, or to stop living your dreams just because you're afraid of something. No, put the things on the right place. If you can find the answers for these big questions, then if you can, uh, understand why these things happen in the end, you, you, you're, uh, uh, you're okay with yourself and you or not. Yeah. It depends. So you either keep doing it or you just stop. Yeah. If it doesn't make sense.
Perfect place to stop. Nuno, thank you so much. We're going to have to get your wife on the show. I think to hear that complete story, that's a, it sounds like quite a, quite an intense day and intense aftermath. And I want to hear about kind of, like you said, seeing the other side. I can, I can relate. I've had a few of those. Um, you know, thank you very much. What a pleasure. I, I appreciate it. I really enjoyed this talk and, uh, I can't wait to go flying with you, man. We need to make that happen.
Thank you, Gavin. It was my pleasure. Hope to meet you soon. For sure.
Thanks bud. Talk soon.
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