Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloud Base, ma 'am. Just got off the phone with Steph Davis, climber, base jumper, wingsuiter, trail runner. She chases it hard out there in the desert. She lives in Moab, has had a fascinating, interesting life. She was a musician and a pianist and then went to law school and chased a PhD for a little while, but just fascinating, contemplative, very cool person. I met her originally out at a Garmin ambassador thing a couple years ago, and I've been wanting to get her on the show because, as I've promised to you, we're trying to reach out to people that are beyond the kind of paragliding spectrum that we typically talk to. Steph does fly, and so does her husband, but she's much more interested in climbing rock and jumping off them.
This is a great one. I think you're going to get a lot out of this and really enjoy it. We dive pretty deep into just life and adventure. I think you're going to enjoy this show. So, very brief housekeeping. We just got delivered yesterday a whole big box of brand new Cloud Base, ma 'am, trucker hats from Patagonia. So, these are very, very cool, and I'll have those up on the store shortly. So, if you're looking for some cool trucker hats, have a look on the website here in a couple days, and I'll have that all live for you. And the other one is insurance. We have updated the insurance article for travel and for accident insurance, especially when you're out of the country or more than 100 miles away from home. The article on the website, when you just put in the search term insurance, it's called Unscrambling Insurance.
Are you covered? Have a look at that. I've just updated that. We're working more closely with GEOS, who are the ones that are activated when you hit your SOS on your spot or your inReach. They have very similar coverage to the coverage I've been talking about with Global Rescue. It's not quite the same, and Global Rescue is a little more padded and has a lot more with it, but you could also go the GEOS route when you travel. And so, not just for SOS when you press that button, but for EVAC insurance and repatriation and getting you home, and then also some updates with the travel insurance, with having comps covered and that kind of thing. So, go check out that article and ping me on whatever platform you'd like to use if you have any questions.
But let's get into it for now. Please enjoy this conversation with a very fascinating person, Steph Davis.
Steph, so excited to have you on the podcast. I have been pretty myopic. I've been myopic about interviewing a lot of paragliders, so I'm excited to interview you and talk to you about your wonderful, fanciful world of jumping and biking, climbing, and also free flight, but free flight in a much more, I guess, extreme way than what we typically talk about. So, welcome to the mayhem, and thanks for sharing your time. Yeah, thanks for having me. Cool. And you're in Moab now, right?
I am, yeah.
That's my first question. Why Moab? Why has that been your center, your base?
I came through Moab, let me think. I was a college sophomore, and at the time, I was at Fort Collins at Colorado State University. So, I came to Indian Creek to climb, because Indian Creek is this huge destination for crack climbing. And I didn't really stop in Moab so much, but I loved Indian Creek. And then, when I was out of school and just basically... It became a climbing bum. It was the best place that I could think of to be, so it became my base at that time. I wasn't really jumping. This was like 20, 25 years ago, something like that. But then, when I started base jumping, as it turns out, Moab is also a world destination for base jumping.
And, I mean, really everything. I'm pretty big into trail running. If you like river sports, mountain biking, it's kind of like this place where you can do all of these. You can do all of these great activities. And it's getting a lot of tourism now, which is affecting the town and how the town feels. But it always has been that kind of small-town vibe, too.
I've always just had such a fast... I went to CU in Boulder. And so, when I was a climber back... I got into climbing back just out of high school and into college. And it just captured me. And so, I chased it probably way too hard for a while. And so, we would take these long road trips out to Moab. For like... One day of climbing and go all the way back. But I was also a big... Well, I am now a huge fan of Edward Abbey. And the way he writes about that place is just... It's such a special area. Have you flown here in the LaSalle? I haven't. And that's ridiculous. I haven't actually flown in Colorado. I mean, I know you're in Utah. But every time I've gone down that way, I always get hung up around Virgin and Zion.
And I just don't keep going. And I should. You know, there's a lot of... Guys are doing flights and girls are doing flights from like Monroe Peak, down by Monroe. And also, like from Innsbo. And they've landed in Moab. You know, they've flown all the way across, you know, most of Utah and gotten to you. And so, I'd love... That would just be such a cool flight. But no, I haven't. I need to.
It's pretty cool. I mean, there's a pretty small paragliding community here. But people are motivated. And people are doing pretty cool stuff up in the LaSalle. So, not doing like big cross-countries out of it. But just having a good time flying around those peaks. So, if you're ever just passing through, it would be a fun thing.
And don't you guys have that... What do you call it? It's like a turkey boogie?
Yeah. It's Thanksgiving time of year. And a lot of base jumpers just kind of like flock to Moab. And it's just... Good word. It's loosely
organized. It's Thanksgiving and flocking. That's a great word.
I would have a hard time calling it organized. But it's just basically like people know that at that time of year, a lot of people come to town. And you set up that crazy net thing, right? Where you walk out there and then just drop through? The slackline people do that. So, then at the same time, it's funny because it started... Years ago, it was really loose and casual. It was Jimmy and Marta. Apex Base used to be Vertigo. And they just would have Thanksgiving dinner at their house for like the 10 or 15 friends. That would come to Moab. And they called it the turkey boogie. And then from there, it's kind of expanded into this just concept where a lot of people come. And then the slackline people kind of got in on the same thing where they started having this big event at the same time of year.
So, it's just... Yeah, there's a lot going on
at that time. So, let's imagine you come over to a party. I'm throwing a party and you come over and there's a bunch of people there that haven't heard your name or don't know you. And they ask you... Hey, nice to meet you. What do you do? How do you answer that? I
always kind of flail when people ask me that.
It's funny. I think partly because I do a lot of different things. And partly because it's sort of a weird career in a way. So, it's like not one of those easy things where somebody says, what do you do? And you say, oh, you know, I'm a nurse. And then you can move on. Right. Right. And then this opens this entire can of worms where people are like, what does that mean?
So, sometimes I'm kind of like, usually they... Well, it depends on who you're talking to. Actually, it's funny you said that because I was just at the dentist. And the dental hygienist goes, what do you do? And I said, well, I'm an athlete. And he goes, what does that mean? And then, you know, you have your mouth open. Right. And so... Yeah, I'm like, well, this is sort of a tough conversation while you're cleaning my teeth.
Well, and then finally, I just said, you know, I'm a climber and I do a lot of marketing. I was just trying to keep it short because I was getting my teeth cleaned. But, you know, but again, it just depends because a lot of people that move in our communities, you know, everybody knows exactly what that means. If you say that you make your living as an athlete, but when you get out of these sports communities, people just aren't as familiar with that as a job. And so, and there's different aspects, right? You know? There is the marketing side. There's being an influencer. I also have my own businesses on different levels. So a lot of times it just depends on who I'm talking to as to what I think that they would relate to or might find a little more relatable because it's usually because we're having a conversation.
So I didn't know about your life outside of being an athlete. What are the businesses?
Well, I run my own climbing events in Moab and I've done that for the last 10 years now. And so that is my business. Um, I always bring my sponsors into it because it's great for them too, but it is my business. And so it's basically running events.
Okay. So that's like what Rebecca does here with Rebecca's private Idaho with her bike, you know, with her, her gravel thing.
Oh, I don't know it, but it's probably, I would imagine it's about, yeah,
I think that's a huge part of her, you know, just personal success is, is, is running these events.
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. I have to check that
out. I don't, I didn't know what she was doing with that. That's cool. So that's okay. Um, if you don't mind me asking how much, like how, how do you divide your athlete side of things and influencer side of things with events? You know, what is it? 60, 40, is it 90, 10? Well, I also have
gotten into public speaking. Okay. And so that's another, I would call it another arm of my business. And so, because they're all very different. Um, some level and they all feel different niches for me, um, from a business perspective and kind of from a personal perspective. And so to me, the way I see, um, the way I make a living is one side is being an athlete ambassador, influencer, you know, however you like to title that or whatever the deliverables might imply. And then the other side is my clinics. And then the other side is public speaking.
Okay. And do you have a manager or are you doing all this on your own? I
don't have a manager. Um, that has been sort of a challenge over the last years by far. Um, and so pretty recently I started working with a friend who is an, he's an agent manager, but since I'm so established and I have created so much of the stuff that I'm kind of dealing with on my own, it's a really nice kind of synergy where basically if I have something that I don't think I can handle in terms of negotiation, I can handle it. Um, I can just pass it off to him and then if he has something, cause he has a bunch of other clients that he kind of manages full time. If he has something that comes through his carousel and he's like, Oh, this would be a great fit for stuff, then he'll call me.
So it's really, really nice because the problem I've had in the past looking to potentially work with a manager is that typically people want to manage your whole everything for you. And I've been doing this for a really long time and I have a lot of relationships that I don't think would work if I tried to hand them off to somebody else. And so I've never been able to say, Oh yes, you know, take control of all my contracts, all my relationships. Um, I've just haven't really felt able to do that. So what I have going on with Matt is super nice because it's just a very, you know, it's kind of like a one by one type thing.
I always like, I always compare kind of what we do. And you're doing a different level, obviously, but for a long time, I dated a gal named Jody MacDonald, who's a very, very talented photographer. And it was really interesting to watch her work because so much of the work was at the computer and not so much. It was unbelievable how much editing, I mean, it was like 90, 10 of just marketing and getting stuff out there and making the contacts and editing and just editing it over shooting. Yeah. It seemed backwards to me.
It's amazing. Well, and I know, you know, cause you, I think you do almost exactly what I do with probably some variations, but it's crazy that to me, when I think of what I do for work, it's not the sports that I do or the training that I do. If I only did that, I don't think I, that would not lead to me being successful from a business perspective. And that's always the irony. Cause I think sometimes people look at you from the outside and they think, Oh, look, she gets paid to climb and base job. And, um, it's absolutely not. It's very paid. Exactly. And to, you know, foster relationships and, you know, provide services and do all the things that are not the going out, climbing and jumping part.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I'd like to get your take on this. Well, first, when did you figure out that this could be a lifestyle? Did this kind of just organically happen out of college? Or was this, uh, something that you were, you know, from when you were 10, you're like, I'm going to be a professional athlete. I
didn't really do sports as a kid and I wasn't brought up in a family that actually valued athletics at all or outdoor activities. So I grew up in the East coast and pretty kind of sheltered suburban lifestyle, um, professional parents, uh, that really believe in education.
God forbid. What? Yeah. Which is, you know, those things. Things are all great, but, um, there was definitely a lot of, you know, a lot of great things I got from my parents, um, or just a really strong sense of discipline, um, serious work ethic, um, being very conservative in your lifestyle, by which I mean like living under your means, not within your means, um, all these things that have really served me very well in climbing and in life, but none of those things were brought into like the outdoor realm. So when I started climbing, I was 18 and it was just something I had, I didn't know anything about it at all. Um, especially, you know, this is in the early nineties. Was that
the move to Fort Collins? Was that what kind of, was that the catalyst was just being in a new place, meeting new people?
Oh no. I started climbing in Maryland. I got taken out for a day and, um, it was real small. So people were kind of desperate to find people to climb with because we didn't have the climbing gyms and the media and stuff like that. It was just this kind of weird fringe. So I just totally fell in love with it. It was something really different for me. And then that precipitated me moving out to Colorado because I, again, we didn't really have the climbing gym scene back then. So if you want to climb, you had to actually go get out where the rocks were and Colorado was making a lot more sense. So I transferred to Colorado state university and then did a master's degree there. And that kind of just got me out of the East coast.
What was your master's in?
In literature. Oh,
fascinating. Do you do a lot of writing?
Yeah, I do. Um, I especially did a lot, um, in the last, I would say a couple of decades. And when I wrote my second book, I, that was kind of a big push because I hadn't done such long form stuff in a while with all the blogging, um, and social media. And nowadays I feel like, I think like a lot of people, I, a lot of my writing is, you know, I almost feel like it sounds like ridiculous to say this, but is geared more towards the social media format. So I'm not doing, um, anything more long form right now. Even my blogging has really dropped off recently. Just, it's kind of like the first thing to go when I get too busy. Right.
Sure. Well, I want to talk to, that's a world that I'm fascinated by. And I definitely want to talk more about your business, but so when you were, but let's just, let's get to that. At that point, when you were back in Colorado and, you know, you got really into climbing, when did it kind of hit you that like, okay, instead of literature, I'm going to be a climber in
Maryland. And I was actually majoring in music at that time. I'd been, I had been, um, a musician my whole life and was really serious about it. And I was a pianist and I, in my mind, I thought that's what I was going to pursue. When I started climbing. Everything just kind of blew up and got really derailed because I just wanted to climb so much. And so I, um, I quit piano, I quit music and I changed my major to English because I also really liked reading.
That's just kind of what made sense at the time I was on scholarship. So I wasn't going into debt for this. Um, and then, yeah, when I, when I went out to Fort Collins, I, I really loved, I loved school actually. And when I got my master's, I was the teaching assistant, which meant that, um, my tuition was being paid and I was teaching writing. So I was taking courses to learn how to teach at the same time. So it was kind of this really cool, um, dual experience. It really, to me, it was so much better than just getting the English degree because I was also learning how to teach. So I was enjoying all that at a ton, um, going to school, teaching, climbing, and it was this really great balance. Of everything. And when I graduated, uh,
I guess the expectation on my family was that if you have a master's degree in English, you that's, you know, you're going to do something else. And so I applied to PhD programs, um, I almost went to salt lake to get a PhD in American studies at university of Utah. I was very close to doing that. Um, but instead I just kind of. Honestly. I kind of panicked and I had also been accepted to a bunch of law schools and I, I spent the summer climbing in Estes park. I was really happy. I was waiting tables. It was great. And then, um, I was like, oh my gosh, I, I got, I can't just not do anything. And so I started school in Boulder, Boulder law school, um, after just, you know, the summer after the master's degree and within a week, I just thought, you know, I, I can't do this.
I gotta go climbing. And so I made this pretty big leap and started living in my oldsmobile and climbing and without really a plan.
Ah, you became a dirt bag.
I became a dirt bag. Yeah. And so that, that was kind of what it was. It was sort of like, I was in this nice little fairy tale where I could go to school and I could be respectable and I was teaching and you know, everything was great and that was working really well with climbing. And then. And then when that was over and I kind of had to move forward on a different plane, it just wasn't letting me climb. Like I wanted to climb and I kind of had to make that choice and it was, it was real scary. Um, but that's what I did. I
imagine your parents were, weren't exactly thrilled either.
No, this was a really hard time for everyone.
Have they, have they come around?
They have. I mean, first of all, my older brother. He, um, he's a doctor, so that helps one good one. He's also a skier and a paraglider and a base jumper, but you know, he's, he's a lot more, he always stayed on track. I guess. Yeah. So he, he at least wasn't stressful and, um, and yeah, for, for my parents, it was really tough. Um, I mean, it was tough for me too, especially in the beginning. Cause again, you have to wind the clock back. This is 1995. There is no, um, free solo, the movie, there's no, um, constant media with extreme sports. There's no climbing, going to the Olympics. There's no sponsored climbers making a living.
It wasn't like that. And so being a climber met, you had to go be a dirt bag. And that part was just, you know, obviously think of yourself as a parent, that part was just really hard to deal with. And then. Yeah. Yeah.
Climbing has danger attached to it. And I was also pretty quickly getting into this big expedition phase. And so I was going to Pakistan and South America and again, we didn't have internet like we do now. So I would just literally disappear for like two or three months out of the year or actually a season. And so, and I wasn't really living anywhere permanent, even when I came back. And so, yeah, I think as a parent, it was probably a nightmare, especially parents with my priorities.
Tough question, but do you miss those days?
Yeah, I do. And so many levels. I mean, there are really ways in which I don't, because I remember very well what it was like to be just hanging out in the back of my truck and then, you know, it's a rest day and it's very boring and you've read all your books and you've written in your journal, you did your laundry and took your shower and you still got like 10 more hours till tomorrow. And then, you know, also just thinking like, what am I doing with my life? I, wow, you know, I just walked away from my entire life path and I don't know where this goes and that's kind of scary and stressful and, um, you know, will I ever have a house to live in? I doubt it.
I don't have any money, you know, I, I really don't miss that part of it. Um. What I do miss is the reason I did that and the trade off was just the absolute focus on what I wanted to be doing. And literally a hundred percent of my life was directed towards climbing. And it was also a really nice moment in time where we didn't have cell phones and we didn't have internet. And so every few rest days I would take my calling card and go to a pay phone and call my parents. Or, you know, or I would send postcards to people. So I, I miss that pace of life. And I think that, you know, they always say there's no going back because yeah, I mean, I wouldn't go back to that time of my life right now for many reasons, but that life is also gone because you can't escape the fact of global connection.
Now you can't just disappear in Patagonia because if you go to Patagonia, your cell phone works and people expect you to answer emails. Yeah.
And I think we all miss that. I was asked a question when we were touring with North unknown, when I was in Telluride, I was asked a question by the audience. We did this kind of panel thing with Timmy O 'Neill and stuff, and I just flailed, you know, and the question was basically like, how, how do you deal with the fact that you have to be a content provider that you have to be doing, you know, does that take away from the experience, you know, when you're going across Alaska and the answer is of course, yes, of course it takes away from the experience. It totally changes it. It totally, you know, you can have a really good attitude about it, but it's, it's, it's not something I've figured out, you know, it's not something I figured out that like that balance between the nineties and now I think something we all miss because I used to read a lot more books and it's just, I just feel like my job now is never done.
I just constantly have, you know, God, I gotta do another Instagram, whatever. It's just, I don't know. I. By the way, when I, when I'm asked, what, what is my question here? When I'm asked from people, you know, Hey, like I want to get into being a sponsored athlete. My answer most of the time is like, you know what, I think it's better to just get a job and then go do this stuff, get a decent job, you know, that you like, that you can be passionate about and that you can, you know, that, that allows you enough time off that you can just go climb or do whatever you do without any of that. I don't know. I mean, I often feel like. I work much harder at the content side than I would if I just had a job.
Yeah. I think it's really hard to achieve the balance. Yeah. Um, and I, I think that, but I think that's true for a lot of people in life. Sure. And so I think it's, yeah, because it's, everything is so nonstop nowadays and I think our culture in this country is very focused on working. Yeah. And succeeding. And then not just that, I think that we are very insecure in this country because we don't, we don't think that there are systems in place to help us with things, um, like healthcare or childcare or, um, you know, pensions, things like that, like that doesn't really exist.
And so I think that because we have so little feeling security, it's, it's really difficult to say. Oh, you know, now it's time to stop and I like where I'm at and things are good financially and I'll do the other things because none of us really know what's going to happen at any time. And honestly, I almost think it's harder to be in a traditional job and dealing with those feelings because, um, I think when you've lived pretty lean and you know how to be a minimalist and there are things that you prioritize a lot more than, um, maybe, maybe more material things, you do have that security of like, Hey, I know how to do that.
Yeah. That's it. That's a really good point. I mean, I think that, you know, it's, it's really a good thing to understand. I mean, let's put it this way. Pretty much the most joyful I ever was in my life was when I had nothing to lose. When you're living at that level, um, there's not a lot to worry about, is there?
Well, I don't know. I mean, when you can. I mean, when you don't have it. When you have kids
and you don't have responsibilities, I'm talking about like the, like, like the, the comparison would be Alex, you know, pre free solo and all of that life was pretty simple. And there's no doubt that life has gotten a little more erratic and a little more crazy. And I'm sure he struggles with that too. What he's able to do with all that fame and everything is fantastic, you know, with his foundation and everything else is just terrific, but it's just more complicated.
It is. It is. But again, I think it's really easy to glamorize the, the kind of dirtbag times and, and again, there's a lot that, you know, isn't that fun when you're doing it and it is stressful in many ways. Sure. And the grass is always greener. Isn't it? Exactly. Exactly. So I, like I said, as much as I think there's wonderful things about it, there's also a lot it leaves to be desired.
Yeah. Well, good point. When, when making a jump here. Uh huh. Yeah. When did jumping happen and why?
I started skydiving initially. It was in 2007. So what are we, 20 now, you know, like 12, 13 years ago. Um, and then, you know, being a climber, living in Moab, it, it was pretty quick that I realized, Hey, you know, there's all these cliffs around here. I guess I, I guess it makes a lot of sense, a lot more sense to be jumping off the cliffs than skydiving all the time. So, um, that's kind of what took me into base jumping.
People that are listening to this have got to be, when they just heard your history of being a pianist and, uh, going to looking at PhDs and getting into law school and being a writer, and then you jump off cliffs, I have often found, uh, most of the people actually that I've met that wingsuit and base jump are so contemplative and so often very well educated. And, uh, I, I think for many people that haven't done it, or they don't know that culture are surprised by that.
Yeah.
It's, I mean, it's kind of, it's all really problem solving on some level and, you know, just like climbing, just like, I guess any sort of adventure sport, you know, mountain pursuit. It's, it's so much problem solving. I mean, don't you find that with paragliding?
Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. In fact, this sport attracts tons of engineers and something I discovered with the podcast, but also, you know, in the X-Alps in the race one day, I was walking out off the mountain with two engineers. This is so interesting.
Yeah. Because there's so much of the analytical part and that I find that part really fun. You know, I think obviously I, I, I enjoy being outside, I enjoy moving, I enjoy, um, exercising. And so that's where skydiving is always a little bit problematic for me because I have a hard time spending my whole day in an airplane hangar and sitting in a plane and going back to the hangar and sitting in the plane. Like for me, that's tough. I would rather walk up the hill. So that's kind of where base jumping is great because you get that, that kind of air sports analytical problem solving thing, but then, you know, you get to go up the hill. Also.
Sure. Yeah. One of the kind of most sobering and also intense podcasts or shows we've done was way back in the beginning with our friend, Jeff Shapiro. And this was right after Dean and Graham had died. And you know, obviously he was going through a very, you know, I think at that point he'd lost 43 friends and now it's quite a few more, uh, to wingsuiting and base jumping. Um. But, um, recently I saw a statistic and I tried to pull it up before we started chatting, but it had, you know, it was like the statistics of jumping and, and, but also many other extreme sports, you know, like paragliding had this, and I can't remember if it was a thousand hours or a thousand jumps or thousand flights, they had it kind of pared down in some way where, you know, paragliding was, wasn't great and was like 2.9 % or something, but base jumping was almost a hundred.
Have you seen this one? No. No. It, it was, I think it's for, you know, for people that participate longer than six years and I, and I don't know how that, you know, but what does that mean? Does that mean in 500 jumps a year or does that mean one? I, you know, so I, I don't know how they qualify all this. That's always the hard thing. I mean, data and statistics are always tricky, but, um, how do you, every time you go up the hill to jump, is it something that crosses your mind? Is it something you have to process? Is it something you, you have a way? Is it a way that you feel now this is, this is something I can participate in safely?
Hmm.
That's, I guess having climbed for so long before I started base jumping, I, it's, it just seems like that's mountain sports. I guess I don't, I don't feel base jumping is particularly this certain death activity compared to like when I go climbing, if that makes sense. Yeah. So over the years through climbing, I lost a lot of friends, um, in the mountains and in climbing accidents and in just life stuff, you know, as well. So I guess by the time I started base jumping, I, I didn't, maybe if I, maybe if I did no sports ever or just had never known anybody who died ever, and then I got into base jumping, then maybe it would feel more directly connected.
Like maybe I would think, oh, it's only possible to die or get hurt if you base jump. But it hasn't, that hasn't been the case in my experience.
Hmm. Do you, do you have a favorite trail running, base jumping, skydiving, climbing? Is there, is there something that's tugging on your heartstrings more these days? Well,
it's kind of neat. I, I've been doing this stuff for a pretty long time now. I started climbing in 91. Yeah. Yeah. And I've always had this approach to climbing and sports where there's certain things that I have found that I really like. And so those things always stay pretty stable and constant, but then I'll just go through phases depending on what I'm most interested in, where I am, what the season is, just who knows why really. And so they always kind of like circle round and round. Like for example, um, there were a lot of years of climbing when I was just really into big wall climbing. Yeah. And expeditions. And then there were a lot of years where I was all about Alpine climbing. Um, then for a few years I was all about L cap free climbing.
So, so it's kind of neat because I think that's what keeps the longevity is the fact that like things always just kind of like change here and there. So right now it's kind of funny because for about nine or 10 years, I thought my knees were just shot from too much trail running and hiking with packs and things like that. I tore an ACL and, um, I was always having knee pain every time I ran and hiked in the mountains. And I went to this physical therapist last spring and he was like, Oh yeah, this is no big deal. Just do these four things. And I was like, what? And, um, cause I had pretty much let go of trail running on some level. I mean, I was doing it, but not really. And pretty much since then I am like full on like back at running.
Yeah. It's super exciting. So it's been like almost a year or so. So right now it's like I'm trail running like daily and it's just, I just, yeah, I just thought I couldn't anymore, you know? So that that's been super, super awesome. And I'm pretty focused on climbing in the desert right now, free climbing because it's winter and that's kind of the top season for me to do that. And so I'm based jumping, you know, a lot less, just a couple times a week right now. Like maybe three times a week, which for me is pretty little and not really skydiving because it's a winter season, but it's really, it's just based on the season. Do
you, do you base jump now just to kind of stay current? Um,
just because I enjoy it,
you know, yeah, I mean, that's always why I based jump. And when you, and you wingsuit as well, right? Okay. Is it, is there one you do more of? Yeah.
I would say because where I am right now in Moab, it's the easy, fast, like I can just go out, hike for half an hour, do a slider off base jump, boom, I'm home in an hour. So that's kind of like a really quick and easy thing. So I definitely do more slider off base jumping. There's a couple of wingsuit jumps here that are good, but they're a little more of an outing, like usually from door to door to do wingsuit jump here for me is like four or five hours.
Is if you could, you know, through the people that are listening, uh, that wanted to get into it, what, what's kind of some critical advice to, uh,
to, to base jumping or yeah. Um, and we sitting, uh, well, the sequence is generally you skydive first and do a lot of skydiving. And, but the biggest advice that I try to give to people is. Okay. Especially if you're not coming into it as like, if you're coming into it as somebody who's an alpinist, I think you kind of have this mentality already, or a rescue professional, because there's a lot of jumpers that come in and there are firefighters or EMTs or paramedics or like military or something, um, seals. They generally have the same mentality, but, but a lot of people, if you just come in from skydiving, you don't have this self-sufficiency mentality.
And I think that's really important. I, when, when I go base jumping, I have a kit that I carry, it's really light. And I carry it in a little fanny pack that I wear on my front. So it's on my belly when I jump and, you know, obviously I always have the in reach mini always. And so I just seen enough accidents and been around enough accidents that I want to, and this comes from climbing too. Right. I didn't have satellite devices at all. And when you go in the mountains, like no matter what happens, either, you're going to have to crawl out or your partner's going to have to carry you out if you're going to get out, no matter, you know, that's what you expect. So I think that's a really good mindset to bring into base jumping.
Cause I think for a lot of people that only come in through skydiving, they don't realize that, okay, now I'm going into the mountains and the back country and it's different, you know, it's. It's not country stuff. And I, I need to be prepared to deal with myself if something goes wrong or something happens unexpectedly.
Have you had an accident?
When I first started base jumping in my first year, I came into it pretty quickly from skydiving. I, I don't think I did enough skydiving. I did less than I would recommend to people I had done like less than 200 skydives. And so I didn't have great canopy skills. Right. And I had two bad landings. I had pretty minor injuries, but for me it was a really big deal because as a climber, you know, like if you hurt your pinky, it's like a really good thing.
There's no downtime in climbing. Oh
my God. You know, it was a good eye-opener for me, um, a really good reality check because I, I don't really feel I can afford to be injured at all and do the things I want to do.
And so, yeah, it, that, that kind of sent me back to. To really improve my canopy skills and really kind of just get it a little more of like, Hey, you know, you really got to be smart about this and lucky.
Yeah. Yeah. If you ever had to, you know, any of the accidents that you've been kind of close to, they're good friends. Is it ever been so just disorienting? If you ever had to kind of leave the sport for a while, or has it been something since 2007, you've, you've pursued pretty. uh steadfastly my
husband mario died and we were on the same wingsuit jump you know obviously that that was i mean extremely life-altering and i spent a long time just trying to figure out how to live really sure without him and how you know what to just how to yeah just how to live basically basically that was the primary problem and i fairly i guess after like a month or so of pretty severe grieving like you know don't get out of bed except maybe for a short walk in a grieving i was like hey i gotta focus on like eating food and doing things and i have to go outside and this has to happen because this is the only way you know so i started forcing myself to go climbing a little bit you every day if i could and i would force myself to go do a short base jump just because i just had to make myself do things but but it did really the idea of wingsuit base jumping felt really you know it was really hard to think about that at first because that that was exactly how he died um and i didn't really know how that was going to play out initially but after some time i missed flying and so i just thought well i'm going to do this i need to see you know i need to go do this to see if i want to do it basically do
you think we get addicted to this stuff in a way because of the escape side of it or because of just being in the moment you know the rest of life gets shed away you know thinking about this when your husband died you know that probably wasn't there probably wasn't a better way to escape at least temporarily from that heaviness oh
yeah i think that's a good question i think that's a good question i think that's a good question so again you know as a climber i mean i started climbing when i was 18 and i'm 47 now so my entire adult life that's that's what i've done and all the outdoor sports kind of are the same you know whether it's running or skiing or face jumping or wingsuiting or whatever so it's funny when we have conversations like this because people always ask me these types of questions it's always i think that the presumption behind the question is it would be normal if you didn't do these sports so it has to be this very conscious decision to do them for me it's i this these are the things i do it's you know it's like if somebody was having the same conversation with me relative to like exercise you know i would be just kind of scratching my head like of course i exercise that's what i do yeah of course i breathe air and drink water and eat vegetables i mean that's there's just things i do so it's to me it's never been this thing of oh well you know if i would not do these things then how would my life be that wouldn't be the status quo i guess yeah and
that's not who you are yeah it's something i've been trying to contemplate and answer for decades uh you know and i don't know that i have a very good answer for it it's it would be it'd be a life compromise without it for sure and you know i mean i think
it's always a funny it's a funny mindset and i don't even i think sometimes we don't even question it because most of us have grown up in a society where these things are considered maybe like extra or you know not normal or something yeah because there's a lot of things that people wouldn't nobody would have this conversation about driving a car which is bizarre
which is more dangerous yeah right yeah
and you know it's dangerous and there's a lot of negatives attached to it of course there's positive that's why we do it but we would never sit here and you know kind of contemplate like huh you know should i really be driving a car how would it be where i'm not okay but it's funny it's right it's like what we consider what our hive mind considers to be normal versus what it doesn't i guess my hive mind is the the things i do are just kind of that that would be normal i guess well
let me ask you this is an interesting one because when you know for a few years we had we had films at banff and they would always premiere at banff and my mom i'd always brought my mom because that was her birthday too so that was kind of her birthday present we always had a blast going to banff and she would sit next to me and just take my knee off when the my film would come up and i was like mom i'm sitting right here you know the ending you know i made it but um you know she's had to put up with this my entire life and she is has a really she's decades ago she accepted it it was just this is who you are i'm curious about how your parents treat it well what do you guys talk about at christmas they're
better with it now i think especially because i have been doing all of these things for so long and it's you know things have gone well for me in my life as a person and
obviously it was really hard for my parents as well as me when mario died and that wasn't that didn't go well but again these are things we all have to deal with i think in life it's not unique to me doing the sports i do i think a lot of parents are are gonna have to be faced with all of these things so but i i think they're i think they're more comfortable with it at this point i think they're more comfortable with it at this point and i think they're more comfortable they still they can't let go of wishing that i would be maybe more similar to them but um i think that's just kind of who they are on some level right
if you can if you could rewind that clock back to you know 95 when you're getting out of college you and i are the exact same age so these numbers are easy for me um would you do anything differently or but you can think about why you're still here think about that you know if you could go back and talk to that 20 year old self coming out of college what advice would you give steph
advice i would give myself would be to not worry as much about the future because i like i said i had a lot of anxiety about it and that was really hard during that time and i would tell myself don't worry about it because whatever happens you're going to figure it out and i tell myself that now yeah
that's a good one but i try to do the same stop worrying yeah
just having the confidence that you're gonna figure it out if
you can imagine 10 years from now uh what do you think you'll regret doing too much of or too little of hmm
too much of hmm gosh i hate to say this but content
but i that's probably not true it is nice to have a balance right sure and i i think that's what i craved when i was younger and that's what i was lacking was any balance and i i think i'm pretty thankful that i do have that balance so and i think i'm at a pretty good place with balance right now in terms of you know really you know i think i'm at a pretty good place with balance right now being able to say okay this is the time i'm doing this thing and this is the time i'm doing that thing and then feeling like i got to do all the things i think that's really good
you're you're climbing you know trail running i mean i'm sure it in some aspects you know jumping and wingsuiting is is quite physical in terms of you know certainly in terms of the approach yeah
hiking yeah it's
great the year what non-train i mean i know you train really hard but what non-training
you're doing is you're you're you're you're you're you're you're
training thing has had the most positive impact on on what you do yeah so i'm looking at i'm thinking about that you know like visualization or meditation or are there things you do that aren't physical specific to your success definitely
visualization is a big thing that's a good thing i've always done that and being really organized funny that helps me a lot i think uh i've spent a lot of years just living a pretty like chaotic lifestyle on some levels and i always seem to have a lot going on and i have found for myself that the more i can kind of organize my physical environment and minimize it that seems to really help me focus on things and so in recent years i've kind of embraced that i think it used to happen more easily like when i lived in a truck because it was pretty simplistic you know and it was really easy to have everything around me tidy i didn't really have anything it was great
and then as i kind of went through life and you know started having houses and storage things and things you know things you need to keep and all this stuff i'd really noticed after a while that it was kind of getting to me and so i've been really really aggressive in the last few years with um minimizing and just get it continuously making sure i don't have too much stuff and that everything is very you know i mean not perfectly orderly but at least pretty well organized where if i want to just say oh hey you want to go to notch peak this weekend and we can see it it's like i grab my wingsuit rig i grab a couple of clothes and then jump in the van and it's not a big deal you can just go do it exactly and and being a lot better about keeping stuff minimal and orderly has really
i've noticed that in a weird way i think that's kind of what i was missing about being a dirtbag is the fact that it was inherently like that
so yeah just trying to be minimal trying to be really orderly because otherwise otherwise it's easy to feel like there's too much going on and then when there's too much going on it's so much harder to focus when
you think about jumping when you think about bass and wingsuiting um over here the years is there is there something that kind of pops out in that wow that really changed my life that has made me different or i don't know more something you mean the fact that i do it or no that's an experience you've had while doing it yeah that you can that you know maybe there's just collectively all the jumps or maybe there was one that just changed you as a person i
mean you know an obvious answer is the jump that mario died on um i'm i'm not the same person i used to be i'm very different in many ways i think partly because of of how mario was and who he was i i really carry this feeling of the joy of every moment loving every moment appreciating every moment and then even more so now that he's gone all
right you must have some kind of rules things that you've learned all these years and in seeing accidents
how are there things you could pass along to jumpers that listen to the show but also that are thinking about it that could maybe divert carnage
um it's it's funny because there's so many accidents in air sports and i i really feel like i feel like so many of them are easily preventable and and i think there are of course the ones that aren't preventable that you know stuff just happens but a lot of them are just very simple things like checking your equipment knowing your equipment maintaining your equipment conditions i mean you know that right conditions conditions conditions um my husband now ian he had a very bad accident almost exactly one year ago with a speed flyer and he knew was going out in funky conditions and he's an experienced jumper experience pilot.
And he made the decision to go out in questionable conditions and have an accident. And so I think that it almost doesn't matter what your experience level is. It's just having that discipline with yourself. And you know how hard that is because you're always somewhere and it's a little marginal, you know, and sometimes you've done that and it went okay. So you think it's okay. I mean, you know,
but really
I think if
positive reinforcement for negative decisions, because
you get lucky and maybe you don't even realize that you just got lucky because you think it was fine and because we can't see it. Right. So I feel like if we could just, if you would take out all of the equipment issues and the decision-making slash conditions issues, we'd be able to do it. Yeah.
I mean, that kind of sounds like a lot of ego there, isn't it? I think
sometimes it's, I think sometimes people, people really want to jump and I, I feel that, I mean, I've, I've been there and, and it's tough, you know, but I think the biggest advice I would give to people is, and this is the advice I give to myself is that when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's, when it's at all questionable for me at an exit point, if it's at all questionable for any reason, the decision is to walk down. And so that takes out that whole thing of, Oh, you know, I'm a little bit this, or I'm not sure about that. So what, and then you kind of sit there and you go in circles and then someone else jumps and it turns out, okay. You know, that whole thing, I just, my rule is if there's something that's not, there's enough, something that's not right, that I'm questioning it too much.
Then the rule is I walk down. If there's doubt, there is no doubt.
Yeah. On some level, because you know, who cares? You go jump again later. Who cares?
Right. Sure. Well, great advice.
But that's hard. It's really hard. And I know I've done a lot of jumps. I shouldn't have. Yeah,
sure. It's life, isn't it? We do a lot of things we're not supposed to do. Yeah, exactly. That's what makes it interesting.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, last question, Steph, this is just, uh, such a fun talk, but I know you've, you've got some other things. You've got to move off to, if you could solve one thing in the world, what would it be?
That is a very good question.
Just one.
If I could solve one thing in the world, it would be people hurting each other instead of helping each other. Terrific. Because that's the thing that drives me crazy about this world. Cause I feel like there's so much stuff that we can't control, like the nature stuff, but we can control the things that we are doing. And so I feel like if we just get rid of all the people doing bad things to each other and replace it with people helping each other, that would be so great. That
would be a terrific start. That'd be terrific. Steph, thank you so much. This was, uh, we, we got, got a little deep there and now that's always a good thing. And, but I just appreciate talking to you. You're just so fascinating and, and fun to watch. And I hope I get to come watch you in person, uh, more often. Here in the, in the future. But thanks. Thanks for coming on the show.
Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thanks. Have a good day. Talk soon. Bye. Okay. Bye.
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