Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloud-Based Mayhem. We've had a lot of accidents lately, and one of the things we're seeing on social media again and again and again is this pilot was hurt. Unfortunately, they didn't have enough insurance or the right kind of insurance, which is totally understandable. It's a very nuanced space, and they keep moving the bar on us, and it can be very tricky to get the right thing, and it really depends on where you're from. It depends a little bit on where you're going, but if you go to my website and just put in the search term insurance, there's a blog article. I have really researched this. I've worked with IMG Signature and Global Rescue on this very thing. There are other options. From what I can tell, they're all pretty similar.
This one I know works. You can get the combination of the two in just a few minutes for just your trip or for the year. It costs less than a buck a day for Global Rescue, but there's a lot of confusion with what's what, what do I need, and there's a very common theme is, oh, it's A, too much money, or B, this isn't going to happen to me. We got to get over this. It happens to the best of the best, and it happens to everybody else in between. If you are in a different country and you pound in hard and you need this, it's going to fall on your family or your community to get you home if you don't have it, and that's just totally irresponsible. You can't do it. You've got to get this stuff, and you're going paragliding on the other side of the world, especially if you're going to remote places. If you're going to India, if you're going to Pakistan, if you're going China, there's a lot of places you can go where you're going to need heli EVAC, and those are expensive no matter where you are in what country.
So, two things, and you can find the link to this. It takes you to the place where you can get them both right through my website, cloudbasedman.com. Go to the insurance, read the article, follow the links. Please, please, please get this. We don't want to be spouting about this on social media. It's not good for the sport, and we also don't want to be putting it through�� our families in these terrible situations that are already really stressful enough. So briefly, the difference between the two, travel insurance slash medical insurance is medical, you know, it covers lost bags and flight delays and all that kind of stuff, stolen stuff and that kind of thing. But it also covers medical if you need a medical procedure where you get hurt. So, you know, you're down in Columbia, you snap an ankle, you got to go get surgery.
You got to get it before you get home for whatever reason. And that's going to cover that. Those usually have a cap. Different ones are different. The IMG signature is $100,000. You can burn that up pretty quickly, obviously. But if you have the other one and you're not totally unstable, you can get home for surgery. This is the other one is the one that to me is in some ways even more important. And that's Global Rescue. This works in any country. It's $329 for an entire year, but you can also get it for just your trip. So it's very cheap. That will get you home back to your hospital. Where you live, which is nice for your family and your community to help you through your recovery, of course. So you want to be able to get home. That's where if you've got something real unstable or if you need a bad surgery and you got to be transported by private charter or helicopter or something, the dollars go.
You're in six figures in no time. So that Global Rescue has a $500,000 cap. That's going to cover almost everything. It's going to cover search and rescue. You can even link your inReach. You can't do this with Spot because you need two way communication with Global Rescue. So you can call, you can activate Global Rescue with a cell phone or satellite phone, but you can also activate it with your inReach because you've got two way with the inReach. So when you're more than 100 miles from home, you can set that up with your inReach and just activate Global Rescue with your inReach. So pretty handy there. Again, this is all on the website. This isn't a thing. Please don't be that person that doesn't get this. If you're traveling to go paragliding, this can happen. It happens every day. It happens all the time. It happens to every level of pilot.
I see it over and over and over again. And it's super tragic if you don't have the coverage. The coverage is really, it's very cheap insurance. So please get it. If you have any questions, reach out to me via the website and I'll send you more information. But it's on the website. Thanks. I was contacted recently right after the ex-alps by a pilot in Switzerland who really recommended I sit down with Laurent Barella, who runs the Verco Fly. They just did their 11th one in August. Chrigel, of course, won again. And amazing race that the Eiger Tour that Michael Vitchie, who I raced with in 2015, modeled his tour, his race after. So this is a hike and fly race that you stay in the huts at night. This one, the Verco Fly, takes place in the Rhone and up and down the Rhone.
It's an awesome race. If you haven't seen the videos for this, check out the show notes for this episode. And watch those videos. There's one by Chrigel that's just awesome. It really shows why he's so good at what he does. And there's also a general one from, you know, they had drones and they had, you know, they did a really good job filming this edition of the race. So go check that out. They had really good weather, high base, a lot of flights. So, yeah, this race is judged on the number of huts you get to. There's eight and you could do it any way you want. There's no set course. And it's also judged by three. You're supposed to get three. Three flights a day. And that's kind of judged on X contest distance. So, of course, you get more a better score for an out and back or an FAI. Awesome concept.
There's no supporters. So it's kind of like the no bull X-Alps. Really dig this. I really, really, really want to do this race. I've been watching it for years. Chrigel did it on a tandem for many years. And then he decided, no, I need to win this. So, of course, he's won the last couple, I believe. But anyway, this is a great episode with a really passionate pilot. Who has just kind of devoted his life to flying. And there in Switzerland, he's an instructor. He has some great advice for newer pilots, both just in general and also those that are kind of thinking about getting into this whole hike and fly game. So, yeah, a lot here. Some fun stuff and a great race that I encourage you to check out. So please enjoy this talk with Laurent Rella.
Laurent, it's so wonderful to have you on the CloudBase Mayhem. I was thrilled to get this email from a friend of yours just recently recommending to get you on the show because I've been watching the Veraco fly. And of course, Chrigel, the master who I've raced with now three times. And I see him at the beginning of the race and then I never see him again. And it sounded like it was kind of the same at the Veraco fly. So I can't wait to talk to you about your race and what was the kind of catalyst for making that happen. And I'd love to come over and actually compete in it maybe one of these days. So I'm excited to hear about that. But I thought before we get into the Veraco fly and your race and how you put that together just by talking a little bit and introducing the audience to you and your history and how you got into all this.
Before we started recording, you were telling me that your wife has been very kind to let you kind of let paragliding take over your life. So. How does paragliding fit into who you are and what you do?
Hey, paragliding. I started paragliding in 2001. I was living in Geneva at that time and just looking at the Salève, the mountain just behind Geneva and looking at the paragliders flying down. At that time, I was more into, let's say, mountaineering. Not high mountain, but walking in the mountain. And it really pissed me off to. To walk down. And the idea was to fly down. And I had a look at the school, a paragliding school in Geneva. But then I found a flyer in a bar in Nanda, in Valais, where I come from. I come from Valais in the Swiss Alps. And the flyer was saying, OK, you can start flying quite rapidly, easily.
And I called the guy and this guy convinced me to start. And I started to fly. And nearly simultaneously with my first child coming. Wow.
And yeah, so it started to be really like a drug. Like I've been addict quite, quite rapidly. And I was living in Geneva. And at a certain time, I had to choose if I wanted to stay in Geneva or maybe go to the States. That was an idea at that time. I had a job that I could move to the States. But as my first child was coming, I said, OK, I stay in Geneva. And I found a job in Valley, actually, where I come from. And that's bring brought me closer to paragliding sites. And I even choose to live in Vercorin, which is a small village in the mountain where I can fly down to my job.
So, yeah, paragliding a lot. A big impact on my life. When
you when you kind of discovered paragliding in 2001 and you had your your child coming for that, you know, that your first child was the was the risk of paragliding something you really knew about already. I mean, did you know that this was something that, you know, could could could could you could have an accident or something worse? Did that play into the conversation with your with your wife or did that play into how you approached flying? Well.
I for sure. And I knew that there is a risk doing paragliding if you are in the air. There is. Yes, there is a risky. I knew that. But I was, let's say, used to to this to those risks because I was doing so motorbike and other stuff like that. And I think for me, risk is part of the life. You have to to minimize it. But for me, honestly, it's more dangerous to. To drive a car and drink and smoke and the risk is less direct. But there is a risk also. And I prefer the kind of risk linked paraglide and this other other risks that are less clear.
I don't know if I'm clear. You
said it. You said it perfectly. Your your kids then are, I guess, the first one's 18 or so. Do your children. Do you have more than one? How many kids?
I have two. I have my my son is 19 and my daughter is 16, will be 16.
The the boy started to fly quite early and he made like 60 flights by himself. But he was he was 15 or something like that. 16 years old. And then he stopped. He has other priority in his life than paragliding. Paragliding in where I live is for. For the fathers and mothers.
I know we've got to fix that about this. Too many people
are flying and the children are thinking that it's mandatory for them to fly, which is not the case.
Right, right, right. Of course. Yeah, this is a this is a problem in the sport. It's my vision,
not their vision.
Yeah. We're not attracting enough youth to the sport either. You know, when you go to a comp or something, it's, you know, it's guys like us. It's not the young kids anymore.
So tell me now where do you still do you live in in Valais now or where do you live now?
Yeah, I live in Valais in Vercors, a small ski resort in the middle of Valais between Sion and above Sierre. I don't know if you can see where it is. Not far from Montana, Zermatt, really in the middle of the Alps. Yeah.
Just so so just on the north side from Verbier, right?
I would say on the east side of Verbier. Yeah. Same same side of the. Valley. The the. Yes. On the on the left side of the valley, but a little bit toward the German part of Valais.
Yeah. Okay. And so tell me, let's get into the Verco fly. So that's why it's called Verco fly because it's the village you live in, I guess. So you. Exactly. Is it is it does it model a bit and I'm sorry, I did a little bit of research on this, but, you know, I didn't find too much in English. So and, you know, of course, because I'm American, that's all I speak. Right. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the the it seems like it's modeled similarly to the Eiger tour to Michael Vichy's, correct? It goes around the huts. Yeah,
exactly. But if I if you want to be fair with Verco fly, Michael Vichy came to the Verco fly and asked me if he could do the same. Right.
Right. Yes. It's the opposite.
In fact, right.
You started it. You started it. Yeah. It's just brilliant. So so the turn points are are the huts.
Exactly. And there is a reason behind that. Everybody knows the Red Bull X-Alp, of course, started in 2003 for the first edition. And it was nearly the only I can fly race that people knew at that time. Do you mind if I make a little bit history for the back of life?
Yeah, of course. It's okay. More better. Yes, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
the first
I can fly race, it was in south of France. The race is was called still exist. The trance was it's. Yeah. The dorm use. Yeah. Okay. Don't I don't know if you heard about this race. Of course. Yeah. It's it was created by Delphine P at that time. And it was a nice concept where you had to ought to walk or to fly. But the idea was to fly as much as possible. And that would give you more points than walking. So it was a lot. A lot of strategy. You had to stop when it was not flying and move only when it was flying. And you had to reach different. You had a starting point and and finishing point. And you had to reach this finishing point.
Not the first, but having flying the more on the on the way. That was that was a transom was and it wasn't I think in May 2009 and I really enjoyed this race. It was it was really new for me because I was just making cross country and never really thought about I can fly race except looking at the exact. And I say that very nice. I have to do something similar in my region, but I don't want to to have an assistant, someone that come and follow you and give you the food and the tent and everything that I for me, it's it's it's. I don't like that. I prefer to do alone and don't bother someone else just to follow me.
And so I thought about it and I realized that around the place where I live, there are many ads and we can rely on those ads for the food for the night and also for the security. So the ads and if you have ads, you don't need assistance. So I say, okay, I have to make a race. You think that that's not in my region. And that that that was the beginning of this race and the race. Yeah. Vako fly, which is a race toward the ads.
And do you do you set the course? Because I kind of watched the Eiger tour this year because I just finished the X-Alps and I was I was pretty tired. My feet were pretty trashed, but I really wanted to go do it. And but then my feet were weren't in good enough condition, so I couldn't do it. But the the I watched it a bit and it seems like they they made it. So you make the course the morning of the race, depending on the weather. Is that how you do it?
No, that is the second point in Vako fly. I wanted a race that is possible even if the weather is not good. Okay. So it's a race that you can do by walking or flying. And the concept changed a lot during the time. Uh, from the first edition to the 11th edition this year, we had 11th Vako fly already. Yeah.
But the difference between I get to and Vako flies I get to you have. Um, no. If you want to have to follow a track, but one at two or three and so on, and you have to go in an order for the Vako fly. You have eight and you can catch them when you want, depending on where you are. What is your strategy? So you don't have to follow a pass. That's really give a lot of fun. For the participant, but it's very complicated for the person looking at the, at the race because they don't understand where the, what the guys are doing. But the,
it's hard for the fans, but it's brilliant for the, for the, for the fans. It's a
nightmare. You don't understand what's going on in every direction, everybody differently, but for the, for the participant, it's quite nice. And the idea is to make the ranking. First, you have to be.
So if you, if you did, uh, eight, uh, uh, you will always win someone who did seven or six. So first, even if they
do it faster, but if you get, it's the number of huts. Okay. It's
not interesting. You have to do all the ads, but what we make the difference is not because most of the good pilot, we do all the eight. What will make the difference? Is how many kilometers you have declared during the four days you have to declare your flight on X contest. And every day we take for each pilot, the three longest flight, and we some the points and at the end, uh, it's a number of kilometers that has been flown during the four days that will make the difference.
Hmm. Okay.
So it's based, uh, you have to make the eight. Uh, we rely on the earth. So the security for the food and everything, but then you have to fly as much and as far as you can. For example, this year, uh, Patrick from kennel pedal flew until under mat, which is a hundred kilometers away from the vehicle flies just to make a long flight because the weather condition was so nice that he has been able to fly long way out and back to the huts.
Ah, brilliant. Okay. So it's, so it's that combination of. Yeah. So
it's a number
of huts and distance in the air. What do you mean by you have to declare your distance before? So he had to, No, no, not
before, not before. Oh, okay. At the end of the day, you just upload your track on X contest. Okay. And it will give you the points and we collect the points to make the ranking.
Okay. And do you get
extra points? It's very important for the pilot to think where they are at what time to make the best flight possible. Uh, because as you know, an FIA triangle will give you more points. More points than a straight line. So you have to think of what kind of flight you will do during the day, but this is a job of each pilot to be in the better position for nice F F F a triangle to declare more kilometers, more points.
So one of the things I didn't really understand about the, the Iger tour. So it'd be the same for, for years. And you know, that time of year, the huts are really busy. How, how do you, uh, do you just re do you just block off a number of rooms at all? Eight huts for the course of the race?
We do that at the end of August, normally between, yeah, between 15 and 30 of August 30th. And normally it's okay because we do the race. Uh, the pilot will sleep in the arts on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So at that time of the year, it's okay. And then we book, uh, we, we have a collaboration with all those arts. And we booked some places for our pilots. So we know that even if all pilots will reach the same at the same day, they should find the bed. But normally, uh, you have five, 50 pilots and they will spread in all the field. So you, you have some that are more interesting in terms of positioning for the next day for the, for the, for flying.
So you know, you will get maybe 20, 25 pilots in one. So I,
I have a lot of listeners that, you know, are inspired by races like yours and borns to fly. And of course the, you know, the X-Alps, because it gets all the media attention and everything. And they say, how do I, how do I get into hike and fly? How do I get into Bivy? What would be your recommendation for lower our pilots, uh, who, who want to participate maybe someday in the Verco fly? Yeah.
To participate in the Verco fly, you have, you have two categories. Uh, the category one is like, uh, let's, uh, we say competition category. And for that, you have some, um, criteria to be accepted and they are quite high. Uh, those criteria, you have to be a mountain guide or a paragliding instructor, or have been, have been participated to like an X-Alp or finished. Uh, I think that's a good question. Uh, you have to be in the, in the, uh, let's say it's, uh, maximum intense position of a recognized I can fly race. So we put, we put the bar quite high, the level to, to enter in competition mode.
Uh, and this is because of the responsibility that the organizer have when they do this kind of race, you have to be able to prove that you. Participant. Uh, specialist in that domain. In case of accidents. So if they are specialists, you are not responsible if they're an accident, it's bad, but it's like that. You need a high level pilots to, to not to be responsible.
And you have the other, uh, category, which is, uh, we call it, we call it adventure, but there is no ranking in that category. And um, we collect the point and everything, but there is no ranking. Oh, great. Less. So
you have to be responsible on
the competitors. And that's, that's also a question of responsibility because in Switzerland, if you organize this kind of race, what make a race, uh, to be considered as a dangerous it's, if you have a ranking and, uh, and some rules that put, uh, your participant, uh, on the pressure. So if you have no ranking, you are less responsible in case of accident. Hmm. So it's a bit strange, but when you organize that, you really have to think if you're responsible or not in case of accident, because when you have 50 person in the mountain like that, it's a nightmare, uh, and really put a lot of pressure on the back end of the, of the organizer in case of accident.
And we have to, we have to reduce that to the minimum possible. So, um, having no ranking, remove some pressure because you don't care if you are in front, in front of this guy or not, and you will not take stupid decision just to, to win one position. You understand? Hmm. And, and, and, and the pro like, uh, like a paddle or crack or those guys, they are, they know what they do in case of, yeah, they are, they are responsible.
Hmm. And you said it's 11th edition, so you do it every year. Yeah. And it, do you, is this something you just do because you're so, you're so passionate? Are you ever too?
Are you ever too? Are you ever too? Are you ever too? Are you ever too?
Are you ever too? of life to also to for for newspaper and even TV that they speak about us they speak about Vercorin about Twister it's it's a market it's a marketing event for us we have sponsor that help us but no sponsor that give us money so we have to we have to ask the participant to pay what the cost basically and it's quite expensive because we have three nights in arts we have one night in Vercorin we have all the all the dinner all the breakfast we have the security tracking system and everything so the registering fee is quite quite quite high for the pilots it for four hundred twenty five Swiss francs that may be a little bit expensive but it's a good make a little bit less than four I mean why four hundred dollars something like that it's quite quite expensive
that covers your your nights in the hut too yeah
yeah everything so the pilots that come and say that will pay nothing else it's it's uh it's um all included I mean he will pay if you want to drink something yeah yeah of course or just for the for for midday for for the um the lunch at midday he will have to buy some food in in the but we provide everything from this yeah the night the food in the evening the breakfast everything and
there's there's 50 participants that's the Max that's where you cap it out
um the first edition we were 18. yeah and this year we were 50 we have been up to 60. 50 is a good number and how many how
many are in competition versus Adventure half half half oh really okay yeah wow it's just such a cool concept it's fantastic you're the film it's mostly I believe it's mostly
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it really a � � � � � � � � � � � � �� �� � � � � so it really a a film that is done quickly during the race. But if you look, Chrigel is only maybe five minutes on the film. We took pictures and Moyes from everyone. We are two guys with cameras, with drones, and we make pictures from everyone. It's
just brilliant. It's beautiful. It's really, really, really nice film. And I mean, some of the top landings are, you know, you're like, oh, that's got to be Chrigel.
So maybe you are talking about the movie that Chrigel did. I saw
one that I thought it was like five minutes, but it's... That's Chrigel one.
That's only Chrigel one. You should see the other one. Chrigel took a camera on his helmet, and he filmed every, I think, landing. Yeah, it was... Five minutes with Chrigel. You should see the other one from the Verkhofer. It's more every person. And we have like drones, and we have very nice, nice pictures. It's quite long because it's made for the pilot at the end of the race.
Oh, I can't wait to see it. Yeah, no, I didn't see that one then. I saw Kriegel's. You
saw the one from Chrigel, which is really impressive because Chrigel is using this kind of landing. I don't know in English how they say it. Just straight on the slope. Yeah,
we call it fly on the wall. Yeah. Yeah. Hang gliders used to do, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. We use a lot more than before because Chrigel is giving, yeah, some, we can see him doing it, so we want to try. But you don't have to land every time like that. Chrigel is really pushing very hard on landing.
He's, I mean, you watch that and you go, yeah, okay. That's why he wins the XLs every year. You don't
have to do that at the Verkhofer every time. Sure. The reason he's doing that... Yeah. The reason he's doing that is because he wants to declare three flights a day. So if sometimes you have to end the flight before to start the second one. For example, if you make a triangle and once you have done the triangle, you have to land to declare this triangle. If you go for another flight and you don't land before, it will make only one flight and you will lose points. You understand? I understand.
Yeah. So that's why... That's why in his films... So he has to land
at the best place. And the best place is most often the highest place on the flight. So he land at 3000 on the slope like that, switch on, switch off the GPS and start again.
Right. That makes sense then because in quite a bit of the footage, he obviously was taking off from exactly where he had just landed. Yeah.
Okay. Got it. That's the reason. Okay.
So tell me, kind of back to the question about, you know, skill building and, you know, a lot of the listeners, you know, tune into this podcast because they're trying to become, you know, better pilots. But for the, you know, kind of the ENB, maybe ENC pilots that are, you know, kind of pushing into cross country and they're starting to do their first, you know, 20, 50, 75K flights and that kind of thing. Well, how would you, because you've had this long history in flying and you did your first race down in the dorm use, hike and fly. What would you recommend for them to, to really start learning and skill building, to be able to come participate at the adventure level in your race? You know, what, what are the kind of minimum skills that, that's, that a pilot would need to, because really, you know, hike and fly, you don't have to top land like Kriegel's doing.
You can land down in the bottom of the, you know, there's ways to make it much safer, but it's still, you know, bivy and hike and fly is kind of at the extreme end of our sport, really, in terms of. It's certainly. If
you participate to the, to the adventure category, you can do it with, like you said, the skills. You don't have to be a top pilot, but what is really important is that you, you have to, you have to know what are, what is your level and not trying to do what the other are doing. And this is not a skill that you can learn. It's, it's really linked to how. You are, you are as a pilot. If you can take it softly, not, not, not, not giving too much. And that's, that is difficult in a race is not going above your, your limit. But to participate in the VAC or fly, if you choose a nice takeoff, because you will find nice takeoff everywhere, but you will have to walk a little bit more.
Maybe if you choose to land down in the Valley, you will find fields and nice landing spot. So. So you can do it safely, even with limited skills. But what is difficult is to say, okay, I will land down and I will have to walk up 500 meters more than if I land in the middle of the mountain. And I don't know how to explain it, but what is important is to be realistic for what you can do and not try to push too much, just to save some. One or two hours walk. And this is something you, it's not a skill. It's, it's a, it's a, are you, are you are quiet approach of the power gliding, which is not only.
Okay. For, I can fly, but every time you fly, uh, to be, uh, able to assess correctly the weather and what you can do or not. And the VAC offline, all. All the, I can fly race can be dangerous because it's a competition and you see other pilot doing stuff and you want to try. Okay. If he can do that, why, why not me? And that's what is difficult. But, uh, in, I can fly, I would say we do that end of August. If you want to participate, you, you mean it's, I mean, it's what you have to be able is to, to, to take. Of course, um,
uh, uh, with front wing, like, uh, I don't know in English. So we forward launch. Yeah. Yeah. For one, both sides, it's important. Both sides are also with the wind on your back because some places it's really better with no wind because we don't have a lot of wind in the mountain. Actually it's the opposite. We have sometimes backward wind and it's very important to be able to take off. With the glider. Behind you, uh, safely. And I see a lot of people that are not able to do that anymore because they don't train it. We train them more than take off looking at the wind. Not at the week. So that's just something that is going in my mind. It's not, I have seen some strange stuff, uh, with pilot trying to take off with the wind.
With the wing, uh, uh, with no wind and it was not, it was not good. So. That's one thing. Uh, of course I'd be able to land in very, um, small places. So try your accuracy when you land. That's also really helpful for this kind of race.
And for the rest, I like cross country, but, uh, I don't know what, I don't know what to say about that. Uh, like, uh, be able to, yeah, to, to assess correctly the weather to, to fly. To, to be able to, to imagine where the wind Valley are like, like when you are doing cross country. So I would not come to the back of life. I'm not able to make a, let's say a 50 K in the Alps.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's kind of the basic requirement there. And I
would not start with a back of fly. You have other races that are not in the high mountain, uh, to start because. Uh, it's always easier to land in the field than in the mountain.
And are you, are you using huts then on, on both sides of the Rome? I mean, what, what are, what, what's kind of your playing field that you're working with there?
Okay. So we have eight, uh, um, that has been chosen 11 years ago in a very strange way. I took a map and I look at their core. And I looked South. Well, the mountain arm and I say, I want to design a V on the map with the odds. And that's how it started. So the odds, if you're being them make basically a V from back. Uh, you have some, some arts on the South East and some us on the West East. Oh, sorry. Southwest. And it make a big V on the, on, on the mountains. And that's how we. I've. Changed.
The odds at the beginning and the first edition. Um, I knew personally only three odds on the eight and never been to the other one. So I discovered the other odds with the, with the first participant. That was the first edition. Now it's changed a little bit and we always, uh, we were keeping those eight as the, um,
the permanent. But we add other, which are bonus bonuses outside of the, of the field of the VARCO fly. But those are not counted as one of the eight. They are counted as point like for the declared flights. So you can make points by flying long way, but you add also points by collecting bonuses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, outside of the field of the VARCO fly.
Uh, cool. Okay. So do you get you there's, there's other turn points, if you will, or other huts that you get a bonus. Yeah. Turn
points or we call them bonus bonuses. Uh, because VARCO fly has changed a lot during the, this 11th year at the beginning, we had a lot of funny, uh, bonuses. Uh, you had to stop in a notel to eat, uh, uh, uh, thought turk. How do you say? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you had to swim in a mountain lake. Uh, you had to kiss, uh, uh, to kiss a girl in the mountain, which was owning a hut, uh, stuff like that. And you had to make a picture and send the picture. And we had a lot of bonuses like that. And it was really participating to the, to the, the fun of the race. And people were coming for that.
Also, after a few years, we, we started to be more toward. Yeah. Uh, competition and we removed some of these bonuses. Next year, we might come again with some bonuses because I talk with, uh, Krieger, Pedal and other, uh, top, uh, top pilot. And they say, you should not go too far in competition. Come a little bit back to a more funny race, uh, because it's why, what we like, and we come to the VARCO fly because of the, where we can fly it's beautiful, but also because we meet other pilots every night in the huts. And it's what make this race special. You are never alone. You meet other pilots, you spend time with them. Uh, everybody explained the flight of the day and so on.
And it's really what we want to, to, to keep, and we don't want to come to a race, a pure race.
Yeah. Yeah. Are you, are you able to still participate yourself or is it just too much for you to do?
Uh, this year I did not participate. I wasn't. The race flying every day with, uh, with the other, but, um, more making Moyes. Uh, uh, but normally I try to participate. Yeah. Uh, participated to, I think seven of seven VARCO fly.
Wicked. And so because there's the huts, you're w what are the, what are the athletes carrying? You wouldn't need much, would you? Because you you're having dinner at the hut, you're having breakfast at the hut. That's all provided by the hut. And then you maybe have a couple of little snacks. Yeah. That you can buy. Yeah. I mean, like when you start the race, what, what are people starting? Well, so
when I start this race, what I take is my glider harness, uh, of my helmet and so on. You have a truck, a tracker that you have to take with you. Uh, you have some batteries, save a spare battery to, to, to load the tracker and your phone, uh, because you need your phone with your time. Yeah. And then I have really nothing. I have, uh, some dry, uh, t-shirt, uh, that I exchanged when, uh, stop, I stopped walking. Uh, and that's it. Uh, nothing really nothing, a jacket. And of course, but, uh, I have less than 11.
Wow. So, okay. So you've got, you've got a little bit of water. I mean, that's the nice thing about the Alps is you've got, you know, there's, there's water everywhere.
So it's not, uh, you. Yeah. You
can take
the water and the, and the small rivers. Yeah. Yeah. So brilliant. No, I, I carry nothing. I have like, um, for energy, technical stuff, uh, to eat in case, in case I need, in case I landed far from, uh, from a village or far from the hut, but, uh, just in case of emergency, I would say.
You mentioned that, you know, maybe, uh, when you start, you start to get into hike and fly and you're starting to think about this, that maybe the vertical fly is not the best one to start with. Uh, what are some recommendations because there there's a lot these days.
Yeah. So for the three spots, I would start with races like, um, uh, called Jura. I can fly. It's it's in the beginning of spring. It's in the Jura mountain. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, more soft. I would say it's green. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. If the weather is not good, it's difficult to fly because the mountain are not high enough. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it's a nice, very nice, nice place to start. You have, you have, uh, also Gruyere fly, which is, uh, in Fribourg. It's yeah. It's not far from where I live from, but it's also a race that is a little bit softer than, than the Verco fly.
Um, say
that again, that Gruyere, like the cheese. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a Canton like a region in Switzerland, Switzerland, Gruyere, like same name as the, as the cheese. The cheese. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fly. Okay. It's nice also.
Um, but you also can start with a one day or two day races that, uh, it's good. Also, uh, there is one race at the end of October called me a cup. I don't know if you have heard about it. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. M I double L E T S it's also in the region of, uh, Fribourg and it's one day race. It's a different concept. You have, um, three mountains that you have to reach by walking and then you fly down making some exercise like touch and go slalom and stuff like that. So it's not based on the cross country, but it's based on, um, how fast you are to climb and your skills.
So it's very interesting to start with that also, but it's, it's, uh, quite demanding. It's a trigger to win, make five more than 5,000 meters climb, uh, starting at eight and finishing at 4. PM. So it's a, it's a long race, very tough. Um, physically.
Yeah. That's, that's a big, that's a big day. We had a couple of those. It's really. Accessible.
It's it. It's accessible. It's at a period of the year where there is not a lot of thermals. Uh, so you climb up and you fly down, um, uh, using your, your landing skills and that's good. That's a nice one. Also. Hmm.
Um, a lot of people are, you know, when they, when they start flying and they start flying in the mountains are quite intimidated by your neck of the woods, cause it's really the big train. And, you know, you're Zermatt and fish and, uh, you know, you're talking the grand combine, you're talking, you know, some of the biggest mountains in the Alps. Um, how, what, what would you tell pilots that are new to your area? What, what are some of the things that they need to know, uh, to come fly in the Volus? I
would say exactly what I said to our student when they are finished their license. Uh, if you fly between June and. August fly in the morning, uh, and land before 1 PM. Uh, so you will be able to fly all the East face with nice thermal, nice condition, but not too strong in the afternoon. It can be very strong and very difficult to land in those. High mountains. And if you go down to the Valley, the Rhone Valley, you quite often have like 40, 50, K per hours, wind Valley. So. Better to fly in the morning when you are not used to it and then, uh, go for long flight,
like in fish, for example, you should not, not start flying fish for, I say all the day. Uh, you can find the morning going up to the Rhone Valley and down, but land quite early. That, that would be what I recommend, but then depend on, on your skills. Uh, if you, if you have, uh, 2000 flights, okay. The outside are like all other mountains, not sure. They're okay. Sure. But if you are, if you are new pilots, thermal can be so very strong and wind Valley can be strong. So sometimes difficult to manage. And because we have high value valleys, it's difficult to understand where the wind is going from one to the other. And, uh, it's, it's.
Yeah. It can be tricky. So fly on the East side in the morning to learn slowly.
You're an instructor then as well. Yes. Is, is, is paragliding now your job?
Not a hundred percent. I have another job. Uh, I am, uh, we are three associates in Twister. Antoine is a founder, Antoine Lambert. He founded the school in 1998. Uh, and with Eve Gavoldi and myself, we, uh, Eve Gavoldi and myself, we joined Antoine, uh, 10 years ago. And we, we are each a third. Yeah. Um, we, we, we bought a third of, uh, of the company each, each of, of, of us, but I'm not leaving. I am working, let's say 20 % for, for the, for Twister as an instructor. I spend quite a lot of time for the VACO fly, but I have another job.
Okay.
I was going to say, how, how much time does it take? Do you have to put into VACO fly, you know, after, after the race ends and before the next race starts? So in that year.
Uh, a lot at the beginning, but we never count that because if we count that, we stopped doing it.
Um, um, uh, I would say, uh, we, we, we started the process process of, um, changing the rules and everything. We think about it just before Christmas. It takes us, let's say, 10, 20 hours of thinking. Then we send the registration. We send the mail and newsletter to have pilot registering. That's not too much. We have to find a sponsor. So it's a little bit diluted during six months. And then it takes, we are more than one, but it's two full-time person for three weeks, let's say.
Back to the instruction. Is Twister a school that teaches people that have never flown before or is it more focused on more advanced pilots or everything?
No, no, no. We start with new pilots. From zero. Really, our core business is to train pilots to pass the Swiss license. So we start with people that never flew before.
Normally, we start with a three-day courses where people that never flew before will go to their first flight. And then they decide if they want to keep flying. Yeah. Yeah. Like all the training. But we work mainly with brand new paragliders.
What are the three things maybe that you see as instructors that cause the most problems that you would like to change? What are the three things that newer pilots tend to screw up? The most common.
Difficult. Yeah. So first of all, I just want to say something. When you are in the school, normally, it's not the time where it is dangerous. There are not a lot of accidents because you are with instructors that decide for you if the weather is okay, if it's okay for your skill and so on. Then the year after you have the license, it's also okay. Because you still are really not afraid, but... Yeah. Respectful. Respectful. Exactly that word. Yeah. It's after that the problem starts. It's when you think that you have understand everything and that you can push a little bit more. So what I would like to change is make people understand that they can stay with a big glider for five years.
And learn a lot, do a lot of things with that and not jump too much towards the sea or even the D gliders. Because those big gliders are very good. You can do a lot of things with them and they are safer. So maybe not pushing the pilots to buy too early. Other, yeah, more demanding gliders. Yeah.
The other thing is I would say fly as much as you can. Never stop flying. If you stop for... You cannot progress and be safe if you fly every three months. Try to fly every week.
Year round.
Yeah. Year round. Yeah. And all the seasons are good. All this paragliding is just great because all the seasons are good. It's not only spring and summer. Winter is good. You can practice with skis. You can... Yeah. There are a lot of things to do. So fly all the year long as regularly as you can.
That's great advice.
And yeah. And yeah. It's... We have some discussions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have some discussion with other instructors and the Swiss Federation around the accident.
Because it's your question basically how to reduce accident, no?
It's difficult. As we talked before, it's very difficult to know exactly our own skills and not to go a step too far and take risks. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, if you practice a lot and you go slowly, you minimize the risk. Even if the risk is always there. But I cannot give you three advice like this. Yeah. Go quiet with your... When you change a wing and the rest are common sense. Don't fly if you have doped. If something is telling you that it's not good today, don't fly.
You don't fly. You don't care about what the other do.
Try to fly with other friends that have the same level and share with them your experience. Flying alone sometimes more difficult to progress and to fly safe.
I'm working on this book of the highlights of the podcast, listening back through them and pulling out all the really best advice and information from all the people we've spoken to over the last bunch of years on the show. And Tom de Dorlodot said exactly that. If there is doubt, there is no doubt. And I really like that because there's... I think for all of us, if we can listen to that inner voice, it's pretty clear. You just have to learn to listen. You have to learn not to ignore it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.!
And I realize that
for whatever reason, that voice is pretty loud. And if you listen to it, it's a good day to go swimming.
And I can tell you because it's really what happened to me after nearly 20 years, I was going to fly and something was telling me, it's not a good day. And I was with a friend. I told him, I don't feel... I'm not really willing today to make a long flight. I don't know if I should come. Yeah. Yeah.! And I went flying anyway, because I was with him and I had a crash and that's only big crash and something told me that it was not a day. I was tired. I should have done something else. And yeah.
Could we, if you're comfortable with it, what happened? What was the... How did you crash?
I was flying in the morning. It was in May. In the morning, not really bad condition. It was okay. And as you know, in the morning, you fly quite close to the ground to fly as fast as possible, because we wanted to make finally a long flight. And I was flying close to the cliff. And I got, I think, a big turbulence from a thermal. I don't know exactly because it was in the morning. Normally it's okay in this region. And I had a big front collapse and not able to fly again soon enough because I was too low. And I just crashed in the mountain.
And I took all the helicopter and it was quite bad.
So that happened. Even if... If you fly... I fly nearly every day and that shit can happen. But that day, if I had just heard to what something was telling me, I should have not... I should have done something else.
It sounds like the lesson there is obvious to listen to that inner voice. But did your style of flying or your approach to flying after the accident change?
I
don't know. I don't know. I think the focus was on the! I think I put even more margin. We can say that.
Margin. I've tried to fly less close to the rock. Also, when the weather conditions are not good, it's more easier for me to say no. I go bicycle or do something else. And that's what has changed. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. And I think it's good. Finally, it's good because paragliding is really addicting. We can say that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's sometimes difficult to say, okay, no. Today, okay, the weather is good. It's difficult to do something else. And now I'm able to do something else easier. I'm not saying all the time, but easier.
How,
if you found it hard to balance instructing and being part of a paragliding school and your own passion for XC, it's something I've always avoided for myself is making paragliding a job. I mean, in a sense, it is a job because I do the X-Alps and all this stuff and films and that kind of thing. So it is a job. But I've never toyed with that aspect of it, even though I love teaching. But just because I've been afraid, it's kind of like the tandem thing. I've always been afraid of becoming a tandem pilot because I don't want it to detract from my passion for flying.
I can understand that. But I have a really easy situation. I have another job for living. And in Twister, I'm making what I like, organizing competition. I'm doing tandem when I want, teaching when I want. So it's not my daily job. So I'm really doing that really as a passion. And I would never be able to do tandem every weekend, every day. I don't want to do that. It's not for me. And I know that. So what I do is I say, OK, I'm free. I'm free Saturday for flying.
If you need me at the school, if you need me, I come. If not, I do something else. I go flying for myself. But I choose, let's say, to work for the school less than one day per week. I would say two days per month. The rest of the time, I'm flying for myself. Got it. That's
a great way to balance it where you don't really need it. Because I have a notion.
Yeah. And for that, I really... For me, it's a real pleasure. I love teaching. I love making a slope training, you know, on the ground and link with new paragliders. I still love it because it's really fun to see the guys starting, trying to fly and everything. And that's still a big pleasure for me. But if I had to do that every week, it would not be a pleasure anymore. So when I do it, I do really with fun. Like the first flight, having a guy and training him to the first flight and bringing him to the takeoff and say, okay, now you can fly. And that's really I love. But I don't do that every day. I do that very...
Yeah, like once a month.
Laurent, I know you have to catch a bus and we've had this amazing talk. So we'll end it there. But I have one question that we may or may not throw into the actual show. Just because I know you're such... I'm such a fan of hike and fly and racing and you've done the Verco fly now 11 years. I'm sure like a lot of people, you watch the X-Alps. I asked this question of Chrigel when we did these kind of follow up right after the race questions. And I thought his answer was quite interesting. So I'll ask you, how could we make the X-Alps better?
For me, what comes to my mind now is because I've done some quite a lot of... I can fly races. I organize. I participate to others. And what I'm discovering now for the last three to four years is vol bivouac. So to be alone and able to manage yourself alone. You take the food. You take the cooking. And so on. And what the next step for me after I can fly is to make the same as X-Alps but with less... Again, with no assistant. To be able to find a way that people are... By their own to cross the Alps. I know it's very difficult because how to be sure that the guy will not have someone bringing food at this place or that place.
But for me, it would be more an adventure to be with less help. But yeah, it's what comes to my mind now when you ask me. I really did not think about it. If it's feasible. If it's okay. If it's interesting for the fans. I'm just telling you what now I like. It's walking and be autonomous. Yeah. Autonomous. Yeah.
I love that you're doing that with the VercoFly. A very good friend of mine, Hansa Rijmanek, who represented the U.S. in five Red Bull X-Alps races. That's what he always said. He always said, I wish we could just do it as the no bull X-Alps. And by no bull. He meant just alone, just on your own and self-supported. That would be pretty interesting. Actually, there
is a race like that that exists that is not well known. I participated last year. No, this year in March. It's called the X-Burg Challenge. Yeah. In South Africa. In South Africa. It was organized by Pierre Carter. It's a four-day race. And you can have supporters, but you can do it without. And the goal is to have a good race. They just put some food in four different places on the race. And it's up to you to go there and catch the food that you prepared. But for the rest of your time, you are alone in the mountain. If you take a tent, you take a tent. If you want to sleep outside, just in your glider, you sleep outside in your glider. And I really like the spirit of that race.
And it's something I like. I don't know if it's feasible for riders. I don't know if it's possible for people to race like Red Bull, but I like the concept.
Great talk, Laurent. I really appreciate it. I wish you the best with everything you're up to flying and racing in the VercoFly. And I really hope to participate next year. I was incredibly inspired by that film. And those of you listening will have the link up to these films and to the VercoFly website in the show notes. I highly, highly, highly recommend you go watch it. It's amazing. So, Laurent, congratulations. And thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.
You're welcome. Thank you very much, Gavin. And sorry for my English. Maybe sometimes difficult to follow, but I do what I can.
Your English is great. Fantastic. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Welcome.
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Thank you.