Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. We've had a lot of accidents lately, and one of the things we're seeing on social media again and again and again is this pilot was hurt. Unfortunately, they didn't have enough insurance or the right kind of insurance, which is totally understandable. It's a very nuanced space, and they keep moving the bar on us, and it can be very tricky to get the right thing, and it really depends on where you're from. It depends a little bit on where you're going. But if you go to my website and just put in the search term "insurance," there's a blog article I have. Really researched this, I've worked with IMG, Signature, and Global Rescue on this very thing. There are other options; from what I can tell, they're all pretty similar. This one I know works.
You can get the combination of the two in just a few minutes for just your trip, or for the year, cost less than a buck a day for Global Rescue. But there's a lot of confusion with what's what, what do I need? And there's a, you know, very common theme is, oh, it's A, too much money, or B, this isn't going to happen to me. We got to get over this. It happens to the best of the best and it happens to everybody else in between. If you are in a different country and you pound in hard and you need this, It's going to fall on your family or community to get you home if you don't have it, and that's just totally irresponsible. You can't do it; you've got to get this stuff, and you're going paragliding on the other side of the world, especially if you're going to remote places, if you're going to India, if you're going to Pakistan, if you're going to China.
There's a lot of places you can go where you're going to need a heli evac, and those are expensive no matter where you are in what country. So, two things, and you can find the link to this; it takes you to the place where you can get them both right from my website, cloudbaseman.com. Go to the insurance, read the article, follow the links. Please, please, please get this. We don't want to be spouting about this on social media; it's not good for the sport, and we also don't want to be putting our families in this, these terrible situations that are already really stressful enough. So, briefly, the the difference between the two travel insurance slash medical insurance is medical. You know, covers lost bags and flight delays and all that kind of stuff, stolen stuff and that kind of thing, but it also covers medical if you need a medical procedure where you get hurt.
So, you know, you're down in Columbia, you snap an ankle, you got to go get surgery. Yeah, you got to get it before you get home for whatever reason, that's going to cover that. Those usually have a cap; different ones are different. The IMG Signature is a hundred thousand; you can burn that up pretty quickly, obviously, but if you have the other one and you're not totally unstable, you can get home for a surgery. This is the other one, is the one that to me is in some ways even more important, and that's Global Rescue. This works in any country; it's 329 bucks for an entire year, but you can also get it for just your trip, so it's very cheap. That will get you home, uh, back to your hospital where you live, which is nice for your family and your community to help you through your recovery, of course. So, you want to be able to get home. That's where, uh, if you've got something real unstable or if you need a bad surgery and you got to be transported by private charter or helicopter or something, the dollars go; you're in six figures in no time.
So, that Global Rescue has a five hundred thousand dollar cap that's going to cover almost everything. It's going to cover search and rescue. You can even link your inReach. You can't do this with Spot because you need two-way communication with Global Rescue, so you can call, you know, you can activate Global Rescue with a cell phone or satellite phone, but you can also activate it with your inReach because you've got two-way with their inReach. So, when you're more than 100 miles from home, you can, you set that up with your inReach and just activate, uh, Global Rescue with your inReach. So, pretty handy. There again, this is all on the website. This isn't a thing. Please don't be that person that doesn't get this. If you're traveling to go paragliding, this can happen. It happens all the time. It happens to every level of pilot. I see it over and over and over again, and it's super tragic if you don't have the coverage.
The coverage is really, it's very cheap insurance. So please get it. If you have any questions, reach out to me via the website and I'll send you more information. But it's on the website. Thanks. I was contacted recently right after the X-Alps by a pilot in Switzerland who really recommended I sit down with Laurent Barella, who runs the VercoFly. They just did their 11th one in August. Chrigel, of course, won again. And, uh, Amazing Race, that the Eiger Tour that Michael Witschi, who I raced with in 2015, modeled his tour, his race, after. So, this is a hike and fly race that, uh, you stay in the huts at night. Yeah, this one, the Verico flies on, in, you know, takes place in the Rhone and up and down the Rhone.
It's an awesome race. If you haven't seen the videos for this, check out the show notes for this, for this episode, and watch those videos. There's one by Chrigel that's just awesome, that really shows why he's so good at what he does. And there's also a general one from, you know, they had drones and they had a, you know, they did a really good job filming this, this edition of the race. So, go check that out. They had really good weather, high base, a lot of flights. So, so, yeah, there's this race is judged on the number of huts you get to. There's eight, and you could do it any way you want. There's no set course, and it's also judged by three. You're supposed to get three flights a day, and that's... It's kind of judged on X contest distance. So, of course, you get more a better score for an out and back or an FAI. Awesome concept.
There's no supporters. So it's kind of like the no bull X-Alps. Really dig this. I really, really, really want to do this race. I've been watching it for years. Chrigel did it on a tandem for many years. And then he decided, no, I need to win this. So, of course, he's won the last couple, I believe. But anyway, this is a great episode with a really passionate pilot pilot who has just kind of devoted his life to flying. And there in Switzerland, he's an instructor. He has some great advice for newer pilots, both just in general and also those that are kind of thinking about getting into this whole hike and fly game. So yeah, a lot here, some fun stuff and a great race that I encourage you to check out. So please enjoy this talk with Laurent Rella.
Laurent, it's so wonderful to have you on the Cloudbase Mayhem. I was thrilled to to get this email from a friend of yours just recently recommending to get you on the show because I've been, I've been watching the VercoFly. And of course, uh, Chrigel, the master who I've raced with now three times. And, uh, I see him at the beginning of the race and then I never see him again. And it sounded like it was kind of the same at the, at the VercoFly. So I can't wait to talk to your, talk to you about your race and what was the kind of catalyst for, for making that happen. And, uh, I'd love to come over and actually compete in it maybe one of these days. So I'm excited to hear about that. But I thought before we get into the VercoFly and your race and how you put that together, just by talking a little bit and introducing the audience to you and your history and how you got into all this.
This, I before we started recording, you were telling me that, uh, your wife has been very kind to let you, uh, kind of let let paragliding take over your life. So, how, how is, how does paragliding fit into, uh, who you are and what you do, hey?
Paragliding, I started paragliding in 2001. Uh, I was, I was living in Geneva at that time and just looking at the salew that the mountain just, just behind Geneva and looking at the paragliders flying down. At that time, I was more into, let's say, mountaineering, not high mountain, but walking in the mountain. And it really pissed me off to walk down. And the idea was to fly down. And I had a look at the school, a paragliding school in Geneva. But then I found a flyer in a bar in Nanda, in Valais, Where I come from, I come from a valley in the Swiss Alps, and the flyer was saying, "Okay, you can start flying quite rapidly, easily." And I called the guy, and this guy convinced me to start, and I started to fly, uh, nearly simultaneously with the my first child coming.
Wow, so and, uh, yeah, so it, it started to be really like, uh, like a drug, uh, like, uh, I've been addict quite, quite rapidly. And I was living in Geneva and a certain time I had to choose if I wanted to stay in Geneva or maybe go to the States. That was an idea at that time. I had a job that I could move to the States, but as my first child was coming, uh, I say, no, okay. I stay in Geneva and I found a job in, in, in Valley, actually, where I come from and, uh, that's bring brought me closer to paragliding sites and I even choose to live in Vercorra, which is a small village in the mountain, uh, where I can fly down to my job.
So yeah, paragliding a lot, a big impact on my my life when
You, when you kind of discovered paragliding in 2001 and you had your, your child coming, for that, you know that your first child was the, was the risk of paragliding something you really knew about already? I mean, did you know that this was something that, uh, you know, could, could, uh, could get, could you could have an accident or something worse? Did that play into the conversation with your, with your wife, or did that play into how you approached flying, well?
I for sure I knew that there is a risk doing paragliding. If you are in the air, uh, there is, yes, there is a risk. I knew that, uh, but I was, let's say, used to to this, to those risks, because I was doing also motorbike and other stuff like that. Uh, and I think for me, risk is part of the life. Uh, you have to to minimize it, but you, for me, honestly, it's more dangerous to to drive a car and drink and and smoke and and the risk is less direct, but there is a risk also. And I prefer the kind of risk linked paraglide, and there's other other risks that are less clear.
I don't know if I'm clear, you
Said it? You said it perfectly. Your, your kids then are, uh, I guess the first one's 18 or so. Do your children, do you have more than one? How many kids?
I have two. I have my... my son is 19 and my daughter is, uh, 16, will be 16. Um, the... the boy started to flight quite early and he made like 60 flights by himself, but he was... he was 15 or something like that, 16 years old, and then he stopped. Uh, he has other priority in his life than paragliding. Paragliding in where I live is for... for the fathers and mothers.
I know we've got to fix that about this sport, too many
People are flying, and the children are thinking that it's mandatory for them to fly, which is not the case, right?
Right, right, of course. Yeah, this is a... this is a problem in the sport. It's my patient.
not not their patient, yeah.
we're not attracting enough youth to the sport either you know when you go to a comp or something it's you You know, it's guys like us. It's not the young kids anymore.
So tell me now, do you live in Valais now or where do you live now?
Yeah, I live in Valais, in Vercors, a small ski resort in the middle of Valais between Sion and above Sierre. I don't know if you can see where it is, not far from Montana, Zermatt, really in the middle of the Alps. Yeah,
so just on the north side from Verbier, right?
I would say on the east side of Verbier, same side of the valley, on the left side of the valley, but a little bit toward the German part of Valais.
Yeah, okay. And so tell me, let's get into the VercoFly. So that's why it's called VercoFly, because it's the village you live in, I guess. So you, is it, is it, is it, does it model a bit? And I'm sorry, I did a little bit of research on this, but, uh, you know, I, I didn't find too much in English. So, and, you know, of course, cause I'm American, that's all I speak. Right. So, but, uh, the, the, it seems like it's modeled similarly to the Eiger tour to Michael Witschi's correct. It, it, it goes around the, uh, the huts. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. But if I if you want to be fair with VercoFly, Michael Witschi came to the VercoFly and asked me if he could do the same. Right.
Right. Yes. It's the opposite,
in fact. Right.
You started it. You started it. Yeah. It's just brilliant. So so the turn points are are the huts.
Exactly. And there is a reason behind that. Everybody knows the Red Bull X-Alp, of course, started in 2003 for the first edition. And it was nearly the only I Can Fly race that people knew at that time. Do you mind if I make a little bit of history for the back of life?
Yeah, of course. It's okay? More and better, yes. Absolutely.
In 2009, I participated in my first I Can Fly race. It was in south of France. The race was called, still exists, Trans-Dromoise. Yeah, the Dormeuse. Yeah, okay. I don't know if you heard about this race. Of course, yeah. It was created by Delphine P at that time, and it was a nice concept where you had to either walk or to fly, but the idea was to fly as much as possible, and that would give you more points than walking. So it was a lot of strategy. You had to stop when it was not flying and move only when it was flying. And you had to reach different – you had a starting point, and finishing point and you had to reach this finishing point not the first but I think flying the more on the way.
That was the Trans-Dormoise and it was in I think in May 2009 and I really enjoyed this race. It was really new for me because I was just making cross country and never really thought about I can fly race except X-Alp looking at the X-Alp and I said that's very nice. I have to do something similar in my region, but I don't want to, uh, to have, um, an assistant, someone that come and follow you and give you the food and the tent and everything that I, for me, it's, uh, it's, it's, I don't like that. I prefer to do alone and don't bother someone else just to follow me. And, uh, So I thought about it, and I realized that around the place where I live, there are many huts, and we can rely on those huts for the food for the night and also for the security.
So the huts, and and if you have huts, you don't need assistance. So I say, okay, I have to make a race using the huts that are in my region, and that that that was the beginning of this race, and the race, yeah, VercoFly, which is a race toward the huts, and
do you set the course? Because I kind of watched the Eiger Tour this year because I had just finished the X-Alps and I was pretty tired. My feet were pretty trashed, but I really wanted to go do it. But then my feet weren't in good enough condition, so I couldn't go do it. But I watched it a bit and it seems like they make the course the morning of the race, depending on the weather. Is that how you do it? No.
At the second point in VercoFly, I wanted a race that is possible even if the weather is not good. So it's a race that you can do by walking or flying. And the concept changed a lot during the time, from the first edition to the 11th edition this year. We had 11 VercoFly already.
But the difference between Aigatou and VercoFly is Aigatou, you have, if you want, you have to follow a track, huts one, hut two, hut three, and so on. And you have to go in an order. For the VercoFly, you have eight huts, and you can catch them when you want, depending on where you are or what is your strategy. So you don't have to follow a pass that really gives a lot of fun for the participant. But it's very complicated for the person looking at the race because they don't understand what the guys are doing.
It's hard for the fans, but it's brilliant for the athletes. Exactly. For the fans,
it's a nightmare. You don't understand what's going on. Because who's winning? In every direction, everybody differently. But for the participant, it's quite nice. And the idea is to make the ranking, first, you have to do all the huts. So if you did eight huts, you will always win someone who did seven or six huts. So first, half the huts.
Even if they do it faster, but if you get, it's the number of huts. Okay, got it. Faster is
not interesting. You have to do all the huts. Ah, okay. But what will make the difference is not the odds because most of the good pilots will do all the eight odds. What will make the difference is how many kilometers you have declared during the four days. You have to declare your flight on X contest and every day we take for each pilot the three longest flights and we sum the points. And at the end, it's a number of kilometers that has been flown during the four days that will make the difference. Basically, so it's based, you have to make the eight huts. We rely on the huts for the security, for the food and everything. But then you have to fly as much and as far as you can.
For example, this year, Patrick von Kennel, Pedal, flew until Andermatt, which is 100 kilometers away from the Verco flies just to make a long flight because the weather conditions were so nice that he has been able to fly a long way out and back to the huts. Ah,
brilliant. Okay, so it's that combination of number of huts and distance in the air. What do you mean by you have to declare your distance before? No, not
before. At the end of the day, you just upload your track on Xcontext, and it will give you the points. And we collect the points to make the ranking.
Okay. And do you get
extra points by… So
it's very important
for the pilot to think where they are at what time to make the best flight possible. Because as you know, an FIA triangle will give you more points than a straight line. So you have to think of what kind of flight you will do during the day. But this is a job of each pilot to be in the better position for a nice FAI triangle to declare more kilometers, more points.
So one of the things I didn't really understand about the Eiger tour, so it would be the same for yours. You know, that time of year, the huts are really busy. How do you, uh, do you just, do you just block off a number of rooms at all eight huts for the, for the course of the race?
We do that at the end of August, normally between, yeah, between 15 and 30 of August 30th. And normally it's okay because we do the race, uh, the pilot will sleep in the huts on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So at that time of the year, it's okay. And then we have a collaboration with all those huts and we booked some places for our pilots. So we know that even if all pilots will reach the same hut the same day, they should find a bed. But normally you have 50 pilots and they will spread in all the field. So you have some huts that are more interesting in terms of positioning for the next day for flying.
So you know you will get maybe 20, 25 pilots in one hut, but not more.
So I have a lot of listeners that are inspired by races like yours and Born to Fly and, of course, the X-Alps because it gets all the media attention and everything. and they say, how do I get into hike and fly? How do I get into bivvy? What would be your recommendation for lower hour pilots who want to participate maybe someday in the VercoFly?
To participate in the VercoFly, you have two categories.
One is like, we say competition category. And for that, you have some criteria. To be accepted, and they are quite high, those criteria. You have to be a mountain guide or paragliding instructor, or have been having participated to like an exile, or finished in the, let's say, it's uh, maximum intense position of a recognized I can fly race. So we put, we put the bar quite high, the level to to enter in competition mode. And this is because of the responsibility that the organizer have when they do this kind of race; you have to be able to prove that your participants are specialists in that domain in case of accidents.
So if they are specialists, you are not responsible. If they're an accident, it's, it's bad, but it's like that. You need high level pilots not to be responsible and You have the other category, which is we call it adventure, but there is no ranking in that category and we collect the point and everything, but there is no ranking and less pressure on the competitors. And that's also a question of responsibility, because in Switzerland, if you organize this kind of race, what make a race to be considered as dangerous?
It's if you have a ranking and and some rules that put your participant under pressure. So if you have no ranking, you are less responsible in case of accident. So it's a bit strange, but when you organize that, you really have to think if you're responsible or not in case of accident, because when you have 50 person in the mountain like that, it's a nightmare and really put a lot of pressure on the back end of the of the organizer in case of accident. And we have to we have to reduce that to the minimum possible. So having no ranking remove some pressure because you don't care if if you are in front of this guy or not, and you will not take stupid decision just to, to win one position, you understand.
And, and, and, and the pro like, uh, like a paddle or crack regal or those guys, they are, they know what they do in case of, yeah, they are, they are responsible.
And you said it's 11th edition. So you do it every year. Yeah. And do you, is this something you just do because you're so, you're so passionate about it or is it something are you able to uh make some money doing it or do you have enough sponsors that kind of fund it or is it something you can
No, no, really, it's because of it's a passion. Um, honestly, uh, we we don't, we don't do money with Sparklefly. We lose a little bit of money every year, but the the idea is to, it's more communication process. Yeah, we use VercoFly to also to for newspaper and even TV that they speak about us, they speak about Vercoran about Twister. It's a market, it's a marketing event for us. We have sponsor that help us, but no sponsor that give us money, so we have to, we have to ask the participant to pay what they cost basically, and it's quite expensive because we have three nights in Hutt, we have one night
in Vercorin, we have all the dinner all the breakfast, we have the security tracking system and everything so the registering fee is quite high for the pilots it's 425 Swiss francs that make a little bit less I mean, $400, something like that. It's quite expensive.
That covers your nights in the hut too?
Yeah, everything. So the pilots that come and pay that will pay nothing else. It's all included, I mean. He will pay if you want to drink something, alcohol, or just for midday, for the lunch at midday. He will have to buy some food in the hut. But we provide everything from the night, the food in the evening, the breakfast, everything.
And there's 50 participants. That's the max? That's what you cap it at?
The first edition, we were 18. And this year, we were 50. We have been up to 60. 50 is a good number. And how many
are in competition versus adventure? Half, half. Half, half. Oh, really? Okay. Okay. Wow. It's just, it's such a cool concept. It's fantastic. You're the film.
it's
mostly, I believe it's mostly Chrigel's footage. The film on your website is no
no
no
no it's a big mix Chrigel is maybe I think you have seen the one that last 15 minutes something like that. Yeah. The long one that the film that we do during the race and we, that we show to the pilot at the pilot dinner last day. So it's really a film that is done quickly during the race. But if you look, Chrigel is only maybe five minutes on the film. We took pictures and Moyes from everyone. We are two guys with cameras, with drones, and we make pictures from everyone. It's
just brilliant. Ah, it's beautiful. Beautiful, it's really a really, really nice film. And I mean, some of, uh, some of the top landings are, you know, you're like, "Oh, that, that's got to be Chrigel." They're
Just so, so there is, maybe you are talking about the movie that, uh, Krieger did? Well, I saw
one that I thought it was like five minutes, but it's, uh, that's Krieger one.
that's okay only krieger one you should see the other The other one took a camera on his, um, on his, um, helmet and he filmed every, I think landing. Yeah. It was five minutes. You, you, you should see the other one from the Verco flights more every, every person. And we have, uh, we have like drones and we have very nice, nice pictures. It's quite long because it's made for the pilot at the end of the race.
Oh, I can't wait to see it. Yeah, no, I didn't see that one then. I saw, I saw Chrigel's. You
saw the one from Chrigel, which is really impressive because Chrigel is using the, this kind of landing, um, I don't know in English, how do you say it? Just straight on the, on the slope.
Yeah. We call it fly on the wall. Like the hang gliders used to do, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. Which we use a lot more than before because Chrigel is giving, uh, yeah, some, we can see doing it. So we want to try, but you don't have to land every time like that. Chrigel is really pushing very hard on his landing.
I mean, you watch that and you go, yeah, okay, that's why he wins the XLs every year. He doesn't
have to do that at the Verco flight every time. The reason he's doing that is because he wants to declare three flights a day. So, if sometimes you have to to end the flight before to start the second one, for example, if you make a triangle and once you have done the triangle, you have to land to declare this triangle. If you go for another flight and you don't land before, it will make only one flight and you will lose point. You understand? I understand.
Yeah, so that's why he has to land.
at the best place and the best place is most often the highest place on the flight. So he landed at 3,000 on the slope like that, switch on, switch off the GPS and start again.
Right. That makes sense then, because in quite a bit of the footage, he obviously was taking off from exactly where he had just landed. Yeah.
Okay. Got it. That's the reason. Okay.
So tell me, kind of back to the question about, you know, skill building and, you know, a lot of the listeners, uh, you know, tune into this podcast because they're trying to become, you know, better pilots, but for the, you know, kind of the ENB, uh, maybe ENC pilots that are, you know, kind of pushing into cross country and they're starting to do their first, you know, 20, 50, 75 K flights and that kind of thing. Well, how would you, because you've had this long history in flying and you did your first race, uh, down in the dorm use hike and fly, What would you recommend for them to, to really start learning and skill building to be able to come participate at the adventure level in your race? You know, what, what are the kind of minimum skills that, that's that a pilot would need to, because really, you know, uh, hike and fly, you don't have to top land like Chrigel's doing, you can land down in the bottom of the, you know, there's ways to make it much safer, but it's still, you know, bivy and hike and fly is kind of at the extreme end of our sport, really, in terms of, uh, it's certainly tracing
If you participate to the to the adventure category, you can do it, um, with like you said, and be skills. Um, you don't have to be a top pilot, but what is really important is that you, you have to, you have to know, uh, what are, what is your level and not trying to do what the others are doing. And this is not a skill that you can learn. It's really linked to how you are as a pilot. If you can take it softly, not giving too much. And that is difficult in a race. It's not going above your limit. But to participate in the VercoFly, if you choose a nice takeoff, because you will find nice takeoffs everywhere, where, but you will have to walk a little bit more.
Maybe, if you choose to land down in the valley, you will find fields and nice landing spot, so you can do it safely even with limited skills. But what is difficult is to say, okay, I will land down and I will have to walk up 500 meters more than if I land in the middle of the mountain, and I don't know how to explain it, but what is important is is to be realistic for what you can do and not try to push too much just to save some one or two hours work. And this is something you, it's not a skill. It's how you are and if you can be quiet.
It's an approach of paragliding, which is not only okay for I can fly, But every time you fly, to be able to assess correctly the weather and what you can do or not. And the VercoFly and all the I can fly race can be dangerous because it's a competition and you see other pilots doing stuff and you want to try. Okay, if he can do that, why not me? And that's what is difficult. But in, I can fly, I would say we do that end of August. If you want to participate, you—you mean it? I mean it's what you have to be able is to to to take off, of course.
With front wing, like, uh, I don't know, in English, forward launch. Yeah, yeah, forward both side. It's important both side also with the wind on your back, because some places it's really better with no wind, because we, we don't have a lot of wind in the mountain. Actually, it's the opposite; we have sometimes backward wind, and it's very important to be able to take off with the glider behind you, uh, safely, and I see a lot of people that are not able to do that anymore because they don't train it. We train more the takeoff looking at the wind, at the wind. So that's just something that is going in my mind. It's not I have seen some strange stuff with pilots trying to take off with the wind with the wind
with no wind and it was not good. So that's one thing. Of course, I'll be able to land in very small places, so try your accuracy when you land. That's also really helpful for this kind of race, and for the rest, I like cross country, but I don't know what I don't know what to say about that, like be able to, yeah, to assess correctly the weather to find to be able to to imagine where the wind valley are, like like when you are doing cross country. So I would not come to the VercoFly if I'm not able to make, let's say, a 50K in the Alps.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's kind of the basic requirement there. And I
would not start with the VercoFly. You have other races that are not in the high mountain to start because it's always easier to land in the field than in the mountain.
And are you using huts then on both sides of the Rhône? I mean, what's kind of your playing field that you're working with there?
Okay. So we have eight huts that has been chosen 11 years ago in a very strange way. I took a map and I look at Vercora and I looked south where the mountains are. And I say, I want to design a V on the map with the huts. And that's how it started. So the huts, if you link them, make basically a V from Vercova. You have some huts on the southeast and some huts on the west-east. Sorry, southwest. And it make a big V on the mountains. And that's how we have
chosen the huts at the beginning. And the first edition, I knew personally only three huts on the eight. I've never been to the other one. So I discovered the other huts with the first participant. That was the first edition. Now it has changed a little bit. And we always, we are keeping those eight huts as the permanent hut. But we add other, which are bonuses, outside of the field of the VercoFlight. But those huts are not counted as one of the eight huts. They are counted as point-like for the declared flights.
So you can make points by flying a long way, but you add also points by collecting bonuses outside of the field of the VercoFly, so
There's other turn points, if you will, or other huts that you get a bonus for.
or we call them bonuses because VercoFly has changed a lot during this 11th year at the beginning we had a lot of funny bonuses you had to stop in a hotel to eat a tart a tart, Yeah, a cake, you had to swim in a mountain lake, you had to kiss to kiss a girl in the mountain, which was owning a hut, stuff like that. And you had to make a picture and send a picture. We had a lot of bonuses like that; it was really participating to the fun of the race, and people were coming for that also.
After a few years, we started to be more toward competition and we removed some of these bonuses.
Next year, we might come again with some bonuses because I talked with Chrigel, Pedal and other top pilots and they said, you should not go too far in competition. Come a little bit back to a more funny race because it's why what we like and we come to the back of life because of the where we can fly. It's beautiful, but also because we meet other pilots every night in the ads, and it's what make this race special. You are never alone; you meet other pilots, you spend time with them, everybody explained the flight of the day and so on, and it's really what we want to to to keep and And we don't want to come to a race, a pure race.
Yeah, yeah. Are you able to still participate yourself or is it just too much for you to do?
This year, I did not participate. I was on the race, flying every day with the others, but more making Moyes.
But normally, I try to participate, yeah. I participated to, I think, seven ValkoFly.
Wicked. And so because there's the huts, what are the athletes carrying? You wouldn't need much, would you? Because you're having dinner at the hut. You're having breakfast at the hut. That's all provided by the hut. And then you maybe have a couple of little snacks that you can buy. I mean, like when you start the race, what are people starting with?
So when I start this race, what I take is my glider, harness, helmet, and so on. You have a truck tracker that you have to take with you. Uh, you have some battery, save a spare battery to to your phone to load the tracker and your phone, because you need your phone with your time. And then I have really nothing. I have some dry t-shirt that I exchange when I stop, I stop stop walking, and that's it. Right? Nothing really, nothing. A jacket and of course, but I have less than 11 kilo. Wow.
So okay, so you've got, you got a little bit of water. I mean, that's the nice thing about the Alps is you've got, you know, there's, there's water everywhere.
So it's not, uh, you take the water in the, in the small rivers. Yeah, yeah, so brilliant. No, I, I mean, nothing. I have like, like four energetical stuff to eat in case I need, in case I landed far from a village or far from a hut, but just in case of emergency, I would say.
You mentioned that maybe when you start to get into hike and fly and you're starting to think about this, that maybe the VercoFly is not the best one to start with. What are some recommendations? Because there's a lot these days.
Yeah. So for the three spots, I would start with races like called Jura I Can Fly. It's in the beginning of spring. It's in the Jura mountains are more soft, I would say. It's green. If the weather is not good, it's difficult to fly because the mountains are not high enough, but it's a nice, very nice place to start. You have also Gruyère fly, which is in Fribourg; it's not far from where I live from, but it's also a race that is a little bit softer than the VercoFly.
say
that again Gruyère like the cheese? Gruyère.
It's a canton, like a region in Switzerland, Gruyère. Same name as the cheese. The cheese. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Gruyère fly. It's nice also.
But you also can start with one day or two day races that it's good also. There is one race at the end of October called Millet Cup. I don't know if you you have heard about it, no miye m-i-l-l-e-t-s. It's also in the region of uh Fribourg, and it's one day race. It's a different concept; you have three mountains that you have to reach by walking, and then you fly down making some exercise like touch and go slalom and stuff like that. So it's, it's not based on the cross country, but it's based on how fast you are to climb and your skills for landing.
So it's very interesting to start with that also. But it's quite demanding. It's a trigger to win, make five, more than 5000 meters climb, starting at eight and finishing at 4 p.m. So it's a it's a long race, very tough.
physically
Yeah, that's that's a big, that's a big day. We had a couple of those; it's accessible.
It's at a period of the year where there is not a lot of thermals, so you climb up and you fly down using your landing skills, and that's good. That's a nice one also.
Um, a lot of people are, you know, when they, when they start flying and they start flying in the mountains, are quite intimidated by your neck of the woods because it's really the big terrain. And, you know, you're Zermatt and Fiche and, uh, you know, you're talking the Grand Combine, you're talking, you know, some of the biggest mountains in the Alps. Um, how, what, what would you tell pilots that are new to your area? What, what are some of the things that they need to know to come fly in the Valais? I
would say exactly what I said to our students when they have finished their license. If you fly between June and August, fly in the morning and land before 1 p.m. So you will be able to fly all the east face with nice thermal, nice condition, but not too strong. In the afternoon, it can be very strong and very difficult to land in those high mountains. And if you go down to the valley, the Rhone Valley, you quite often have like 40k per hour wind valley. So better to fly in the morning when you are not used to it and then go for long flight like in fish.
For example, you should not start flying in fish for, I say, all the day. You can fly in the morning, going up the Rhone Valley and down, but land quite early. That would be what I recommend. But then it depends on your skills. If you have 2,000 flights, okay, the Alps are like all other mountains. They are okay. But if you are a new pilot... Thermal can be so very strong and wind valley can be strong, so sometimes difficult to manage. And because we have high valleys, it's difficult to understand where the wind is going from one to the other. And it can be tricky.
So fly on the east side in the morning to learn slowly.
You're an instructor then as well. Yes. Is paragliding now your job?
Not 100%. I have another job. We are three associates in Twister. Antoine is the founder, Antoine Lambert. He founded the school in 1998. and with Yves Gavoldi and myself Yves Gavoldi and myself we joined Antoine 10 years ago and we we are each a third we bought a third of the company each of us but I'm not leaving, I'm working let's say 20 % for Twister as an instructor, I spend quite a lot of time for the VercoFly but I have another job.
I was going to say, how much time does it take? Do you have to put into VercoFly after the race ends and before the next race starts, so in that year?
A lot at the beginning, but we never count that because if we count that, we stop doing it. Um,
uh, I would say, uh, we, we, we start the process process of, um, changing the rules and everything. We think about it, uh, just before Christmas, it takes us, uh, let's say 10, 10, 20 hours of thinking. Then we send the registration where the, we ask, we send the mail and newsletter to have pilot registering. registering, uh, that's not too much. We have to find a sponsor, so, so it's a little bit diluted during six months. And then it takes, uh, we are more than one, but it's two, two full-time person for, for three weeks, let's say.
back
to the instruction uh or is is twister a school that teaches people people that have never flown before, or is it more focused on more advanced pilots or everything?
No, no, no. We are, we, we start with the new, new pilot from zero. Then, uh, really our core business is to, to train pilots to pass the license, the Swiss license. So we start with people that never flew before. Uh, normally we start with the three-day, um, courses where people that never flew before will, will go to their first flight, and then they decide if they want to keep, keep flying and make all the, all the training, but we work mainly with, uh, brand new paragliders.
what are the three things maybe maybe that you see as instructors that cause the most problems that you, you would like to change? What are the three things that newer pilots tend to screw up the most common?
Difficult. Yeah. So first of all, I just want to say something when you are in the school, Normally, it's not the time where it is dangerous. There are not a lot of accidents because you are with instructors that decide for you if the weather is okay, if it's if it's okay for your skill, and so on. Then, the year after you have the license, it's also okay because you still are really, uh, not afraid, but, uh, yeah, respectful, respectful. Exactly that word. It's after that the problem starts. It's when you think that you have understand everything and that you you can push a little bit more. So what I would what I would like to change is make people understand that they can stay with a big glider for five years and learn a lot, do a lot of thing with that, and not jump too much, uh, towards the sea or even the D gliders because those big gliders are very good, you can do a lot of things with them and they
Are safer, so maybe not pushing the pilots to buy too early. Other, yeah.
more demanding gliders
The other thing is, I would say, fly as much as you can. Never stop flying. You cannot, cannot progress and be safe if you fly every three months; try to fly every week.
year round
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and all the seasons are good. All this, and paragliding is, is just great because all the seasons are good. It's not only spring and summer; winter is good. You can practice with skis, you can. Yeah, there are a lot of things to do, so fly all the year long as regularly as you can.
That's great advice, and
Uh, yeah, and yes, we have some, uh, some, um, discussion with other instructors and the Swiss Federation around the, the accident, um, because it's, it's your question, basically, how to reduce accident
It's difficult, as we talked before, it's very difficult to be to know exactly our own skills and not to go a step too far and take risks. So for me, if you practice a lot and you go slowly, you minimize the risk, even if the risk is always there. But I cannot give you three advice like this, uh, yeah, go, go quiet with your when you change a wing.
And the rest are common sense. Don't fly if you—if you have dropped, if something is telling you that it's not good today, don't fly. You don't care about what the other do. Uh, try to fly with other friends that have the same level and share with them your experience. Flying alone sometimes it's more difficult to progress and to fly safe.
You know, I'm working on this—this book of the kind of highlights of the podcast, kind of, you know, listening back through them and pulling out all the really best, uh, advice and information from all the people we've, we've spoken to over the last bunch of years on the show. And, uh, Tom said exactly that: "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." And I, I really, I really like that because... Because I think for all of us, if we can listen to that inner voice, it's pretty clear. You just have to learn to listen. You have to learn not to ignore it. There are days that for whatever reason, that voice is pretty loud. And if you listen to it, it's a good day to go swimming.
And I can tell you because it's really what happened to me. After nearly 20 years, I was going to fly and something was telling me it's not a good day. And I was with a friend, I told him, "I don't feel I'm not really willing today to make a long flight. I don't know if I should come." And I went flying anyway because I was with him, and I had a crash, and that's only big crash, and something told me that it was not a day. I was tired, read I should have done something else, and uh yeah.
Could we, if you're comfortable with it, what happened? What was the, what, how did you crash, uh?
I was flying, uh, in the morning. It was in May, uh, in the morning, uh, not, not really bad condition. It was okay, and as you know, in the morning, you we fly quite close to the ground to fly as fast as possible because we wanted to make finally a long flight. And I was flying close to the cliff and I got, I think, a big turbulence from a thermal. I don't know exactly because it was in the morning. Normally, it's okay in this region. And I had a big front collapse and not able to fly again soon enough because I was too low and I just crashed in the mountain.
And I had to call the helicopter and it was quite, quite bad. Um,
um, so that's, that happened. Even if, uh, if, if you fly, I fly nearly every day and, uh, that shit can happen. Um, but that day, if I had just heard to what something was telling me, I should have done something else.
It sounds like the lesson there is obvious to listen to that inner voice, but did your style of flying or your approach to flying after the accident change?
Yes, I think I put even more margin, we can say that.
margin. I've tried to fly less close to the rock also, when it's the weather condition and not good, it's more easier for me to say, "No, I go bicycle or do something else," and that's what has changed, and I think it's good. finally it's good because
paragliding is really
Um, addicting, we can say that. Yeah, yeah, and it's sometimes difficult to say, "Okay, no today." Okay, well, the weather is good, it's difficult to do something else, and now I'm able to do something else easier. I'm not saying all the time, but easier, how?
have you found it hard to balance uh, instructing and being part of a paragliding school and your own passion for XC. It's something I've always, uh, avoided for myself is making paragliding a job. I mean, in a sense, it is a job because I do the X-Alps and, you know, all this stuff and films and that kind of thing. So it is a job, but, uh, I've never, I've never toyed with that aspect of it, even though I, I love teaching, but just because I've been afraid – it's like the tandem thing. I've always been afraid of becoming a tandem pilot because I don't want it to detract from my passion for flying.
I can understand, but I have a really easy situation. I have another job for living, and in Twister, I'm making what I like, organizing competitions. Um, doing tandem when I want, teaching when I want, so it's not my daily job. So I'm really doing that, uh, really as a passion, and it's, um, I would never be able to do, uh, tandem every weekend, every day of the, I, I don't, I don't want to do that. It's not for me, and I know that. So I, I, what I do is I, I, I say, okay, I'm free Saturday for flying.
If you need me at the school, if you need me, I come. If not, I do something else. I go flying for myself, but I, um, I choose, uh, let's say to, to, to work for the school less than, less, less than, uh, less than one day per week. I would say two days per month. The rest of the time I'm flying for myself. Got it. that's
That's a, that's a great way to balance it, where you don't really need it. Yeah,
And and for that, I really, for me, it's a real pleasure. I, I love teaching, uh, I love making a, um, a slope training, you know, on the ground, ground handling with, with new, new paragliders. I still love it because it's really fun to see the guys starting, trying, trying to fly and everything, and that's still a big pleasure for me. But if I had to do that every week, it would not be a pleasure anymore. So when I do it, I do really with fun, like the first flight, having a guy and training him to the first flight and bringing him to the takeoff and say, "Okay, now you can fly," and that's really, I love. But I don't do that every day.
I do that very, yeah, once a month, Laurent.
That's, I know you have have to catch a bus and we've had this amazing talk, so we'll we'll end it there. But I have one question that we may or may not throw into the actual show, just because I know you're such a fan of of hike and fly and racing and you've you've done the VercoFly now 11 years. Uh, I'm sure like a lot of people, you watch the X-Alps. Uh, I asked this question of Chrigel when we did these kind of follow-up, right after the race, uh, questions and I thought his answer was quite interesting. So I'll ask you, how could we make the X-Alps better?
For me, what comes to my mind now is because I've done quite a lot of I Can Fly races. I organize, I participate to others. And what I'm discovering now for the last three to four years is vol bivouac. So to be alone and able to manage yourself alone. You take the food, you take the cooking, the tent, and so on. And what the next step for me after I can fly is to make the same as XL, but with less—again, with no assistant—to be able to find a way that people are by their own to cross the Alps. I know it's very difficult because, how, how to be sure that the guy will not have someone bringing foods at this place or that place?
But for me, what it's, it would be more an adventure to be with less help. But yeah, it's what it, what come to my mind now when, when you ask me. I really did not think about it if it's feasible, it's if it's okay, if it's interesting for the fans. I'm just telling you what now I like, it's working and be, um, autonomous. Yeah, yeah, that
I, I love that you're doing that with the VercoFly. That, a very good friend of mine, Honza Richmanic, who, who, uh, represented the U.S. and in five Red Bull X-Alps races, he, that's what he always said. He always said, "I wish we could just do it as the no bull X-Alps," and by no bull, he meant just alone, just on your own, and, and self-supported, that would be pretty interesting. Actually, there
is a race like that that exists that is not well-known. I participated last year, no, this year in March. It's called the X-Burg Challenge. Yeah, in South Africa. In South Africa, organized by Pierre Carter. It's a four-day race, and you can have supporters, but you can't do it without. out, and they just put, uh, some food in four different places on the race, and it's up to you to go there and catch the food that you prepared, but for the rest of your time, you are alone in the mountain. Uh, if you take a tent, you take a tent; if you want to sleep outside, just in your glider, you, you sleep outside in your glider, and I really like the spirit of that race, and and it's, yeah, it's something I like.
I don't know if it's feasible for a race like Red Bull, but I like the concept.
Great talk, Laurent. I really appreciate it. I wish you the best with everything you're up to, flying and racing in the VercoFly. And I really hope to participate next year. I was incredibly inspired by that film. And those of you listening will have the link up to these films and to the VercoFly website in the show notes. I highly, highly, highly recommend you go watch it. It's amazing. So Laurent, congratulations and thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.
You're welcome. Thank you very much, Gavin. And sorry for my English, maybe sometimes difficult to follow, but I do what I can.
Your English is great. It's fantastic. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Welcome.
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