99. The 2019 Red Bull X-Alps (Installment 2) - Chrigel Maurer

Hi there everybody. Welcome to episode 99 of the Cloud Base Mayhem. We are getting very close to that magic hundredth episode. I am working very hard on the book, this kind of Tools of Titans. We don't have a title yet, but working with Hugh and Ed at the magazine, at Cross Country Magazine, and this is going to be fantastic. It's been really fun going through the old shows and kind of grabbing all the great nuggets from all the fantastic pilots and people we've had on the show over the last few years. So stay tuned for more information on that. This show is the second installment of the interviews I did right after the race with a bunch of the Red Bull X-Alps athletes. In this one, we're going to talk to Tom DeDorladeau, Cody Mittanck, Patrick Poncanel, Eduardo Garza, and Chrigel. So we get a really good taste of what things were like at the very front of the race with Chrigel, of course, winning his sixth and all the way to the back, fighting not to get eliminated with Cody.

And there's some great stories here of Gus Frontz and all kinds of fun stuff. I think you're going to really enjoy it. And we also get to hear some really cool thoughts from Chrigel on how the race could be more competitive, maybe a big shakeup for the 10th edition, which would be 2021. And also just how having all the turn points this time, adding all those turn points while it took us through some fantastic areas of the Alps, it made it quite a bit less interesting both for us as athletes and also for the fans to watch. It made it so we couldn't be very creative with our routes and made it really hard. We had to catch up. So some interesting thoughts there. Before we get to the show, I guess we've got some kind of somber housekeeping. I don't know if you'd call it housekeeping, but you know, the bell curve of accidents always goes way, way up in the summer.

And unfortunately this summer has been no different. There've been a ton of fatal accidents around the world and several back home in the States. And some of them are just like they always are people making silly mistakes, which is just. You know, a bummer. It's, you know, you've just got to make sure you check your head, you know, things like forgetting to strap in. We had a guy who jumped out of a paraglider and had forgotten to have his base rig on, you know, it's just stuff that we're human. We make mistakes and it happens and it causes a lot of pain. And so we've just got to make sure that we're checking our systems and checking our head. Like Jeff Shapiro said way back in number three, this one flight that you're about to take is the one flight that you're about to take is the one flight that you're about to take is the most important flight of your life.

The accident I want to actually talk about though, is a mutual friend of actually Jeff and I's and many, many other people that just happened in the Sierras. And, you know, we don't know all the details that he was flying with a couple other people that day, but basically went into a pretty windy lee area, very, very low where he didn't have any escape. He went into a kind of a Canyon without, you know, where he really needed to climb and obviously did not get the climb. And what we assume is he had two reserves. One was deployed when they found him. And so we assume that he had to deploy pretty low and he hit his SOS. Obviously probably went in real hard, hit his SOS. And, but by the time search and rescue got in there, he was no longer with us.

And, but looking at his track logs, we were able to kind of figure out that he had made a mistake that I'm seeing over and over and over again. One is that, you know, these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these are huge risks involved with that, of course. And I think a lot of people, you know, Jeff and I talked about this one accident in detail in the last few days. And, you know, what he's seeing is, is a lot of lower outer hour pilots that have a shitload of talent, you know, men and women that have a ton of talent that are confusing, uh, luck with skill, you know?

So it's my, my analogy is like backcountry skiing. You know, when you go out backcountry skiing and you've got a really kind of sketchy avalanche hazard, you know, slab problem or something, and you, you don't really ski, you ski something probably a little bit more dicey than you should on a particular day. And it doesn't go. And you get back down to the car and you think you've made really good decision-making in the backcountry. And really you were 1 % safe at, and 99 % super dangerous. It was right on the edge of going and, you know, it could have put a bunch of people on an avalanche and you got out and you don't, you know, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't really get the feedback from that. And we've got the same thing in flying. You know, if you, if you take a deep line and it works out, then you take another deep line and it works out and you keep doing it.

You, you think you're getting better when really you're just getting lucky. Um, you know, so if you're, you know, a pilot that's at 500 hours, you need to be realistic and understand that you're still a total puppy. If you're at a thousand hours, you know, you might, you're just starting to figure it out. And to emulate, emulate pilots who have thousands of hours, you know, the Kregels and the Russ Ogdens and people have done so much SIV and so many hours and, you know, chase them and, and, and go into these areas where there's, there isn't any margin. You're asking for trouble. You know, you haven't built up the foundation. You don't have the skills to take a collapse low. And, but mostly it's just totally unnecessary. This is what makes me really sad about this.

And I, I see a lot of pilots

that have a lot of experience with this and they're not really

doing this is that they, you know, because it's the most logical and kind of easy place to be is right on the terrain. You know, there's going to be thermals there. It's also way messier there and you don't have any margin, but mostly you don't need to be there. You know, you can be way out front, use a lot more bar, fly a lot faster and straighter, but you're also, if something goes wrong, you've got a lot more margin. So, you know, usually out front, it's not always the best line, but most of the time out front, it's a place where thermals have gotten a lot more time to kind of gel and get nice and get a lot smoother and they're not so sharp. You know, when you're right on the terrain, it's like flying in the flatlands right off the deck in a dust devil. You know, the thermal hasn't had time to really gel and get nice.

None of us like flying in air like that. So, yeah, this was really a bummer because this pilot really didn't need to be where he was. Now he was in the Sierras and, you know, you're getting pretty tall out in the Sierras. So hypoxia could have been a factor. A lot of things could have been a factor, but, you know, like Jeff said, and like you've heard Nick Greece say on the show, fly the day and not your desire. And like Jeff said, you know, no line is worth not coming home from, you know, that's not a sustainable way to fly where you're going into a place and you're, you're thinking about using your parachute as the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the only way out rather than a last resort. So, um, and just a warning to everybody to fly at your skill level, the experience and the knowledge and the hours will come.

You can't rush it. Uh, you, you don't, it's just, you don't need to be competitive, uh, when you're, when you're learning and the learning in this sport takes a lifetime. And I go back to Alex Roby again, we heard about how he's doing. He's monster flights by flying on perfect days. He's taking very, very little risk. He's flying days that aren't going to OD that don't have a lot of wind. They're perfect days. And like Santa Croce said in his podcast, the good days will come. There's no reason to go out and push on the hard days. And so that's just, just a warning. Uh, you know, I see a lot of pilots jumping up to a much more spanny, um, weren't demanding wing way too early.

And, and pushing it way too early when they haven't built up the foundation, be honest with yourself, emulate the pilots who don't have accidents, who, uh, come home every day and are having the most fun. That's what this podcast is all about. And I also want to own up to something that Jeff pointed out was that often on this show, uh, myself included, and some of the pilots that I've, uh, had on the show kind of glorify that deep line, but know that that, comes from thousands and thousands of hours of practice and training. And, you know, a lot of the people I have on the show, like the show today are X ops pilots. These are some of the best pilots in the world. So they know the risk, they understand, uh, the hazards, they know how to get out of bad places.

They've got the experience and that experience is often gained from making mistakes. And we've all gotten lucky that we, you know, we've had, we haven't had a lot of consequences. They've been in inconsequential mistakes where we go, wow, that's

not going to

work.

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these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these

these these let's get into this show uh Tom de Dorlodot cody patrick eduardo Chrigel some fantastic stuff here we're going to start it off with tom who this was his seventh X-Alps but his first time to make it into monaco he was the last one in he clearly really really upped his game he and i were racing pretty close to one another for most of the race until i kind of faltered day eight but he had a great race and brought in a professional trainer and just totally changed his approach this year changed his team so we're going to hear about how all that went here's some great stories from cody who was having an epic battle at the back but made it a long ways and had a great race uh patrick van von kennel who of course we we knew he was going to do well we had a great talk with him on the podcast before before the race uh so we get to hear about some of the battles that he went through eduardo garza who had a terrific race another rookie in this lineup uh he was kind of right in the middle of the pack who was chasing hard he was really tenacious had a fantastic time as well and so you'll hear the kind of the joy that he had in this race and then the always amazing Chrigel enjoy

tom welcome to the show i uh it's it's so awesome to talk to you i i'm sorry i missed you guys in monaco i just i didn't want to deal with that heat after dealing with so much heat i wanted to stay in the mountains so i imagine i i watched the

show and i was like oh my god i'm so excited

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these just did a phenomenally good race so my my first question for you is uh you know obviously you're very practiced at this you've been doing this a long time but something in your game was different this year and i'd love to hear what it was because you were you were really on form yeah i think well thanks very much for i mean it was it was um i'm super happy to be on the show again and uh and to share a little bit of my experience with uh with everyone um yeah this of course something changed i think uh you know i've done the race six times before and uh and i knew i was coming back um you know when i actually two years ago i thought that i'm never gonna do it again that's it uh i leave it here and then um this year we had a baby and i thought this is the perfect timing to just stay home a little bit focus on training and spend some months in the and you know for the last uh 10 years a little bit like you you know i've been traveling everywhere around the world and the exalt was one of my adventure but was i never totally focused on it like i should have um and so every time i was a little bit short you know a little bit short not far from monaco not far from a good position but never quite made it and um and this time i really changed everything i trained professionally with a professional trainer um i really worked on the gear i spent a lot of time in the alts and i think this is key um spend uh two months in the alts with my van traveling around and checking the route checking the turn points then i trained with um hiking and flying quite a lot um and and yeah i think it all came together you know this time it kind of worked and as you know also you kind of need a little bit of luck um you need to be at the right place at the right time and and take the opportunities and uh because i've had other race where i think i was a little bit more focused on the race and i think this is key um i think this is um strong and ready but uh one day and one mistake can make a whole difference so um this time i was in the right place at the right moment with the right people i think and uh flying in teams at the beginning and finding my way um and then yeah it worked out i actually even was hoping to get a better result because i was playing fifth six seven eighth you know and in there but then at the end what was really important for me was to get to monaco so the last two days i was flying in the right place and i was in the right place and i was in the right place and i was flying a little bit more conservative uh trying to get everything out of the flights and really get to monaco instead of really fighting for a position because my dream was really to make it to monaco so well yeah congratulations and yeah you know it was i had those last days were so stable i had plenty of time to walk and and watch tracking and stuff and and uh you know my my mistake day eight really really cost me because i got stuck in the on the eiger side and and i couldn't chase you guys into in a chamonix and it was pretty clear that i was going to be in the that that monaco was no longer in the cards so i had some time to watch and man there was a heck of a battle going on i mean really actually at the end it was even for third and fourth you know because patrick really reeled in benoit and and and paul there that that whatever day 10 and but you guys were having a heck of a battle around mona visa cheval blanc it was awesome to watch

yeah it was super interesting because you you could see it i mean every every two years the level goes up a little bit you know and people come and they are better prepared and everyone is fast and so i would say that i mean Chrigel somehow and i said it already is is from another league yeah it's is somewhere else he's above you know but but then uh from there you know like if you look at uh paul um benoit and all the other guys it was everyone we were always fighting together and one would go in front and then another one and then depending on if you had a good day or if you catch that last term of the day you get in front but um it was so intense and and um after chamonix the day um you didn't make it across uh near and you stayed near diego we had a really hard time fighting with stability and then we got to to um to chamonix with gaspar and i was lucky to be flying with gaspar at that point because he knows all the area super you know he knows exactly what to do so um and the next day i could catch up with uh with patrick and so we were there um front of the whole crew and fighting kind of for fifth position you know and really thinking okay there's something now it's it's happening you know three days before the end it's kind of really good place to be but but then this heat uh killed us you know and arriving in saint-hilaire i walked 40k straight in 37 degrees i was i was you know destroyed and and then the next day i started making mistakes and i really think at some stage i was pushing pushing pushing pushing so much the race i never really took the time to set back and say hey now i need a bit of rest so i can fly better tomorrow or i can be smarter

um you know i i think at some stage i should have you know slowed down slowed down a little bit and i didn't and and that's where i hit the wall at some stage i i was just too tired and and i started making mistakes during the flight uh when i arrived in monte viso i was not sure that i did the cylinder so i started to hesitate went back you know this kind of stupid mistakes you only do because you're tired yeah but it's interesting to see that after 1200 kilometer um to see that we all get there more or less at the same time you know it's quite quite crazy six seven pilots at the same time um and i was i told gaspar i remember i said to gaspar you'll see gavin will be with us up there tomorrow so because we were already thinking okay uh the top 10 is almost secured uh but then you realize like some of the guys in the back they're they're incredible pilots they've done monaco before and uh so anything can happen in this race as you can see it's like yeah i just but i think this time people were flying so fast also like the pace was just i i i just was was blown away you know like it it had you know in 2015 i made mistakes that like cost me almost a whole day and you could keep you know you could still be in the race you know in this race you're done that you're just over

you know it was it was incredible just how fast even on the in those middle days where there was no thermals it was just rain and thunderstorms and you know but everybody kept moving you know it was just really still very fast everybody's out the door at five and done at 10 30 and and it was true really really phenomenal i i'm very impressed with what what's happening with the level yeah it's going to be interesting to see what happens in in two years or so and see see how i mean it all depends on the weather and i think this year was so intense the first three four days uh with good flying weather and big big distance flown and but um for me what really also changed this year is my uh my attitude you know like before i used to i remember in the race before if i made a big mistake i kind of couldn't go over it you know like it was like a negative and oh shit i made a mistake and this is not gonna work and

i'm even in big stability when i landed down and thinking okay and i have to go back up and everyone is passing flying above me um i was i don't know how but really positive all the time like i i could really stay smiling and laughing and having fun and not take it too seriously and i think that was a game changer to really stay positive and have an attitude of uh just okay no no big deal let's keep going let's stay positive was that a conscious decision before the race started or is that something that just you know age and having a baby and just maybe you're just different it's probably a little bit of both you know in one side i knew this is something i had to work on um and also this year i changed my team so i i took a different team that i used to be to to have a different vibe you know and to start from scratch um i mean the team that i had was always great and i was always happy to share those moments with my friends and stuff but this time i really build a team thinking okay what do i need who i need what kind of profiles who's going to work with me you know and who is going to be wise enough to understand how i work and i really work on the team um and then and then i knew i had to work on myself you know i knew i had to change my attitude and also uh it it goes i was having this discussion with paul uh paul bauer before the race and he said uh it was his his uh way of

thinking but he said um now i have to think that it's possible to win i have to come for the win because if i don't come for the win then i then there's no need to come i mean it's and i and i won't give my best if i'm happy with the second or third place you know yeah so and then i it kind of changed something in me also i thought this is true um i have to come for an echo you know and i have to come for to give my best and i i'm not just coming to participate and i'm not going to be uh satisfied if i just and and so i really it's kind of changed my mindset and uh and physically i think i was so much better prepared than you and i'm not going to be satisfied if i just and and so so i didn't suffer so much i was enjoying much more um i like that you got a professional trainer you know that i've i've had that for all three and in ben you know ben and he's my supporter in the race as well but it's just and it makes all the difference because that's one thing you can shelve that's one thing you don't have to think about anymore you know you know you're going to be ready you just got to do the work yeah exactly so uh what was your best day what was your worst day um that's a good question i think

i think my my best day was the last day because you know i was i woke up and it was i was still 155 k's from monaco and really it wasn't clear that i was going to make it you know i i wasn't sure they were saying that the day was going to be amazing but um it was not clear and so i i climbed to the top um for a glide down to reach simon and then climbed again and was on takeoff for simon and actually the day wasn't that good we had strong uh west wind west wind and uh and it was destroying the terminals the first terminal i got was amazing i thought this is going to be easy it was i went up to 3800 meters and thought this is it we're getting to monaco and then after that nothing 2002 2003 fighting against the wind and it was really a struggle to get to monaco so when i landed 40k away from monaco i opened my cell like i checked my gps and i said okay this is going to be a long walk but i'm going to make

super stoked but um so i think that maybe it was the best the best day because i would have been i have to be honest with you i would have been very frustrated if i didn't make it to monaco this time because i i never did it you know and so for me it was really it was important it got personal i had to finish this um so it was really really good day but altogether also the day of conplats um when i landed on top of conplats i got lucky i i was one of the first to land on top and so i could catch up with the guys who landed a little bit lower and had to climb a hike up to to the top to sign i really landed one meter from the sign board signed and took off again and so i was flying with benoit with paul um from three to six seven we were all there and uh like four or five pilots and they were flying fast and and it was really good to be flying with the group because you know a group of five talented pilots we went really fast and i remember looking back and saying that the conditions were getting worse and worse and worse and thinking okay for us it was good you know we were kind of closing the doors behind the door behind us you know so uh i remember thinking this is not going to be easy for those who follow and and it was just a matter of maybe an hour of difference you know but we could escape in front and that was a really good day but then i made that mistake and it was broken i made me land and then uh the next day i could catch up but

yeah i mean it's when you look at the race um 10 days later you see how many mistakes you made and what could have been better and stuff but at the end of the day you know we all did our best in uh and and you play with what you have tom you've done it seven times now you made monaco um i'm sure you've got some really good advice for for you know someone thinking about doing the x-ops that's never done it again what would be you know like the one precious piece of advice you would give them you know if they're thinking about doing it what would you what would you pass on to them

michail I think, you know, well, I think the most important is to just spend as much time as possible in mountains. And I do think that it's really a mental game, this whole thing, you know. And that's why people like you and people who do a lot of adventures and they go out and they spend time in difficult conditions and stuff, they can cope with it. You know, they can cope with the stress, with the mental, you know, game and stuff. You know, if some people would say, oh, just go spend some time and do some comps and fly long distance. I don't think this is the best advice. I think really what is the best is to take your backpack, to go with your glider and get lost in the mountains and spend days hiking, flying, make some, you know, volume and in difficult conditions and sleep outside and get hurt a little bit.

But I really do think that when it comes to the race, then you feel confident out there. The physical challenge is still there. But mentally. Mentally, you can cope with it. I think that. And I think what you need is experience at the end. So experience, you only get it by practicing. You have to spend a lot of time out there. You know who I think of when you say that is Nick Nanens. You know, I think that's kind of all he does. He travels the world and he does it out of a shoelace and he just bivvies everywhere he goes. You know, he's been in so many mountain ranges. And, you know, even in this race, he had a really bad start and he was way off the back. And I kept telling my team, just don't count him out. He'll catch up. He always does. You know, he'll just keep moving and he'll do it with a smile.

And like nothing really phases him. You know, he's always just. Yeah, true. Just chomping along. And yeah, no, that's really good advice. I like that. What's the most critical or vital support you receive from your team? This could be a one case scenario or just overall like, oh, my God, I couldn't do it because of this.

Yeah, well, I think, you know, it was interesting when we crossed, for example, to the Rhone, we had to go above Glacier. And I think for me, I mean, it's like you. I spend a lot of time in the high mountains in Pakistan and stuff. So I feel very confident. But I was really happy to have someone with me, you know, being on the rope and just didn't have to think about it. You know, and I have I had two really strong guys in my team. That's where. Sometimes hiking in front of me, helping me carrying water and extra extra stuff, food or a little bit of electronics and stuff. And that really helped to have those those guys really positive mindsets, motivated, smiling, the good joke, you know, the good moments. And I think really that was the game changer this time.

It was the the attitude of the team more than really something that they did. But the whole positive attitude and, for example, and I speak about the moment when we crossed to the to the room, we had to go above. The glacier street, as in 200 meter, we went to the huts. We had really bad weather, but but we did everything like kind of having fun, enjoying laughing about it, you know, not taking it too seriously. And I think the attitude really makes a difference. And they could really cultivate this positive attitude the whole way. I think that's that's the best. That's really where they were great at. Yeah. Tom, the final question is just what? Fan experience or locals experience along the way, you know, because people come out and do the most wonderful things for us.

What was the one that really stood out?

It's a good, good question. You know, not this time, but I remember from the last editions and I think this is a good story. There's a woman that's in back in 2009. I think she was I met her in front of our door on the way from Marseille to Mont Blanc. To Chamonix. And the path goes just in front of our door. And she she came out. Now, what do you do there and here and blah, blah, blah. And she offered me some iced tea, like really homemade, you know, lemon and ginger and really good. And then two years later, in 2011, I came again. And there she was waiting with following a life tracking and waiting at the same spots, you know, and hey, here I am again in this year.

She sent me a message saying, hey. If you're landing in Martigny, your iced tea will be waiting for you. And I flew above it. So I sent the message. Not this time, but thank you. Thank you very much. Anyway, you know, and I think it's cool. You see that more and more people are following the race and trying to help. This is really, really cool. And also, I saw a lot of solidarity between the teams. And I really appreciate that. We can keep a very good spirit and, you know, fair play and people helping each other, you know, even if it's not. Your team. So Simon's team has been helping us. Gaspar Pichot. Every time I would meet them, they would propose some water or something to drink, something to eat. So we could really cultivate between the team.

The team's a really cool atmosphere. And I think this is important also for the spirit of the race. So really appreciate that. Couldn't agree more. Tom, always such a pleasure, man. And I wish you and your family well. I know you've got some great adventures planned on the boat. I hope to see you.

I've got

Sal Miguel here in August at the festival. A little plug for them. That's going to be awesome. That would be nice. Congratulations, man. Really, from the bottom of my heart, it was just awesome to watch. And I was so happy for you. When I was at Col de Lazard and saw you walk in, I was just thrilled for you, man. So congratulations again. And on just an epic race, you really kept it together the whole time. That was really fun to watch. And you were in. You were in a troupe of incredible pilots there. And I was happy to see you guys make it. So, yeah, job well done. Thank you, man. Thank you. I appreciate it. And I hope I can come to the States soon and get some flying down with you there. Yeah, for sure. And some ski touring in the winter, man.

Don't miss the winter. It's special. That would be nice. You would love it. You would love it.

Cody Mittanck, Team USA3. He and I spent quite a bit of time together, as we did with Willie, who we'll hear from later. And the run-up to this race. Did some training together about the week before the pre-race week. Had some really interesting stories and epics and some tough early days. But held it together. Their team had a lot of fun. And I think you're going to enjoy this talk. Cody, thanks so much for coming on the Mayhem, man. It's good to hear your voice. I know you're out at U.S. Nationals already moving on to new things. We talked a little bit before we started recording. Yeah. You're feeling pretty recovered after the long slog through the Alps. But congratulations on your first ex-Alps.

I know it was a big battle there at the back for a while. You had some pretty hard days, especially the one that looked like leaving Kronplatz. But it's still an epic adventure. And yeah, man. Congratulations.

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, man. A lot of hard days. I don't even know where to start with all those.

Lots. Lots of stories there. Lots of mistakes. But a lot of really good flights, too. So, yeah. It was an adventure. Definitely an experience that I wouldn't trade. And I'm glad I did it in the end. So, this was the sketchy. Maybe you're going to ask what the sketchiest part was. This is the sketchiest part of the whole race for us. I think we waited until one thunderstorm passed.

And our plan now is to still try to just either start hiking up the Brenner towards Innsbruck. Or try to fly. And so, we hiked up to a launch. And we waited for one thunderstorm to pass. And they seemed to be sort of tracking more to our northeast. And not coming up the Brenner where we were at. And so, we waited. We saw two of them do that same thing on that pattern. And we thought, okay, we're probably safe. And so, we got the sun popped for a little bit. And we launched. We had some thermals going off on this ridge we were on. Flew to the end of the ridge. So, we're flying into the Brenner now. And took a light thermal.

And we're sitting in this thermal. And I'm watching this next thunderstorm moving towards us. Just slowly tracking towards us. And it's coming right up the Brenner Pass at this point. And so, you know, I'm trying to get as much height as I can just to get over and into the pass. And find a place to land. So, we left that thermal. Started going. Going into the Brenner. Got fairly low. And then picked up this really, really broken lift. Initially, I'm thinking it's a thermal. And I'm like, yeah, maybe I can actually get up a little bit further. And maybe make light to that airspace.

Saved myself a little bit of hiking. And as I started taking this up, I was actually. So, Brian, my supporter, was just behind me. And he came in. And he came in below me at that point. And landed.

And I, you know, tried to take this thermal up. Up too high. I was really getting higher than I should have at that point. Realizing then that it was. Yeah, it was a gust front. It wasn't a gust front. It was actually. This thunderstorm was sucking. So, it was actually pulling from Innsbruck. Like the direction of Innsbruck. It was pulling all of this air up the Brenner Pass.

And within a matter of. A minute or so. Now, I'm in winds that are gusting to 30, 35 miles an hour. And I'm in this really tight spot. There's power lines everywhere. And, you know, there's that gorge in the Brenner Pass. And, yeah, I had a backwards landing. Pretty sketchy. Pretty sketchy. When I finally got on the ground. Turned around. And this thunderstorm was just. It was massive. And, yeah. Really strong winds. And within maybe 10 minutes or so. That had stopped. And the winds switched direction. And then ramped up to just, you know, the same speed. That was the gust front that was now coming through.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was pretty gnarly. That was definitely the sketchiest part.

You put up this funny video. It was right around then on Facebook. I didn't get to see it. Ben and Revis told me about it. But you were like. Kind of. Like, tired. Obviously, you were like, man, I feel like I'm in this terrible feedback loop. Where, you know, I make the same mistake over and over again. Because I get rushed. And I try to, you know, I try to make moves. And then I screw it up because I'm rushing. And then I rush harder because I screw it up. It sounded like. I know.

Yeah. Everybody. I've been talking to people here. And they're all just like. They're like, I watched the video. And I just felt so bad for you. Yeah. I went back through and watched those again. And I'm like. I definitely was coming off maybe a little more depressed. Or, I don't know, fatigued than I really was. But I certainly was feeling that. I was feeling like I was in this positive feedback loop. Where I was making these bad decisions. And then that would put me on the ground. And then I would just, you know. I would be even more fatigued. And then make another bad decision. And just couldn't seem to get out of that.

Yeah. The guys that did really well, too. They talked. They talked about, you know, how much. How much this race is a thinking thing. I mean, it's. That's the number one thing. I mean, do you. Everybody sees on live tracking that it's the. You know, it's the physical. And it's the strategy. And it's the. You know, it's the instruments. I mean, there's all the things that go into it. But. And the number one is like. You just got to think. You know, you really. And it's hard to think when you're tired. You know, it's that. That really is what it is. You know.

Your patience. That's. That's what I've done. Is that. Because I had fallen behind. I was so far behind. And like you said. When we were. Before we started recording. It's like. If you. If you fall behind. It's almost impossible. Like. To catch up. You know. You land midday. And you lose 100K on everybody.

It's. You start thinking about it. And you're like. There's just really no way I can catch up. Unless they make a huge mistake as well. Which they're not likely to do. Right. So I have to now get. Like. Really creative. And I got to take a new line. Or I've got to. Really fly fast. You know. I've got to make up the time in the air. And then. So that. I was trying to do that. I was trying to fly fast. Trying to make up that. That 100. 150K. And. I. You know. Without the patience. That I needed. With. You know. Like. Running low. Being fatigued. Whatever. I was just. Yeah. Couldn't. Couldn't pull it off. So. And then. I just landed again. And again. And. And then. We found ourselves. In that situation. It's like. Wow. We're going to get eliminated.

If we. If. If I don't pull off a big flight here. We're. We're in the elimination zone. You know. In. In four days. We're going to get eliminated. It wasn't right then. We were never right on the chopping block. But. We were thinking in terms of. You know. Finishing the race. That was the. That was the primary goal. Was to do the full 12 days.

Knowing now. What you know. If you could rewind the clock. And change anything about your preparation. What would it be?

Yeah. I was. I was. I was really surprised. That physically. I was. I was fine. I was totally fine. It was. Yeah. Like the. The. The doc was coming around. And checking people out. He checked out my feet. And he's like. Wow. Your feet are. Are perfect. You know. Like. Doesn't even look like you've been hiking on them. And that was. I owed that to. A lot of. The advice that you gave me. To bring a. Another. Shoe. That was a size bigger. And. When you told me that. I was like. Yeah. There's. I just can't even imagine. My feet swelling. An entire size. And. And I almost didn't do it. But I was like. Yeah. I'll bring. I'll bring one pair. That's. That's one full size bigger. And. That was key. I ended up actually. Using that. That bigger size. Anytime I was doing the long pavement hikes. Because that's when my feet would swell.

And. I ended up being just fine. So. I had. I. During training. I realized that. The toe socks. Were the best. Option to prevent blisters. And then also. This. This running. Loop. That you. Put on your feet. So it kind of. Helped with friction. And. Yeah. The combination of those. Those things. I had. I had no blisters at all. And. No problems at all. With my feet. Awesome. And. The physical side too. Man. I just. I. Surprised myself. Because I thought that was going to be. I thought. Flying. I was going to. Be able to. You know. Hold my own. And. But I was really worried about the physical side. Because I had never done anything. Of that magnitude. You know. Every day. Pushing it that hard. I mean. There was.

There was. That day that we. Hiked Titlis. That was a. A 15,000 foot vert day. Yeah. And. And. And. And. We. We did. So. Basically. I did. I did about the same. That's. As. As. Chrigel did. Except. I only made it to Chamonix. So. I basically. Was. I was going. Way off course. And I was turning a lot of circles.

So. What about. What about other. Other aspects of the race. That. That. I mean. Nutrition's huge. But what about. Like. You know. When you. When you say. Like. You. You started to hit your stride. You know. Could you have hit that. Earlier. If you had. If you had known. X. You know. Like. What. What was the. What was the thing. That was like. You know. Whether. Team. Or mapping. Or. Instruments. Or. You know. What. What was something. That was like. Man. I wish I had done more. Preparation for that.

I. I. I think if I. I think it was. It was a combination. Of a lot of things. But it was mainly. That I. I just. If I had had. A month or two. Flying. In that area. Because I. That was the first time. I'd ever really seen. Any of those. Any of those lines. From the air. And. So I think if I had. At least had a few flights. I would have. Started to feel more comfortable. Flying. Flying those lines.

Yeah. Because. Like I said. Right off the bat. Are. Our mistake. That set us. Set us back. Was just not. Not knowing. What launch to be at. I think. If we had. Been. If we had known. That area around. The grind. A little bit better. And knew that. That. That the launch. You know. Actually to the north. Was the one to be at. That morning. Then. That could have changed. Completely changed. The race for us.

It was. This one was interesting. For me. Because the. You know. In 2015. You know. The. We made it. A ton of mistakes. You know. Just like you did. Early on. And. And. You know. Came out of it. We. We had a great start. But then some really bad days. Went way back. And. But because we had these long. Distances between turn points. I had. I had a really magic day. Day eight. That just pole vaulted me. From. I don't know. 18th to 7th. And. And you know. We got to Monaco. And. I think that skewed. My reality. Of what it is. I was like. You know. Convinced that. Wow. I mean. I got. I got eighth. And my first X-Alps. You know. It went really well. And I thought. Oh God. If I. If I really train. And. And fly a lot. The next few years. Like I. I could really be competitive.

Here. And. What I. Underestimated. I guess my answer. To that first question. Underestimated. Was just how good. Everybody's getting. There. There were a number of times. In this race. Even where. Lack of. Local knowledge. Really hosed me. It really. You know. It really. Like if I had just known. How. You know. A. B. And Z. Were. Works. Coming into this valley system. Like the guys. That are ahead of me. Do. You know. Then I wouldn't be on the ground. Exactly. You know. And I. It's just.

No. Exactly. It's. It's. It's amazing. How much. That makes the difference. Because that. And that's. That's what I was talking about. That day. That. That. I had. I had flown. In the evening. I launched. And I was flying. Just past. Murin. I. I. We had been in that area. That was the only area. We'd really actually. Did some recon on.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because we. We flew in. Geneva. And then. Drove through there. And got a couple little flights. In that area. And so. I knew. I knew that. Neeson. Was the place to be. The. For the next morning. And. So. I knew. I had to get there. So. I. You know. I. I. I. I could see. I needed the side hill here. And then. We could. Hike up. And then get a morning. Sledder down. And then hike. And be. You know. Ready for. You know. Be at the top of Neeson. By 930.

And be ready for the day. And. If I had known. That's. Those sort of things. And all the other areas. Yeah. Totally different ways. It would have. Really helped us. Yeah. Yeah. But. And that was. So those were the big mistakes. That I made. Is just. We didn't know where to be. We didn't know where. Where to actually. Be for a good. You know. To. For a good start. For that day. Yeah. And. Yeah. That's. That just. That just takes. You know. Flying that area. And. And knowing that area.

But it's. Yeah. Like you said. Living there. Would definitely help. But I think even just training there. For a season or two. Would be really useful. As well. And I. I mean. Going into this too. I didn't. I was. I had no. No dreams of. Of. Beating Chrigel. That was not even. I didn't even. Entertain that idea. We. I. I. All I was hoping for. Because I. Honestly. I didn't know that. I could even. Survive it. Physically. I. I was just hoping to. To be middle of the pack. That was. That would have been a really good scenario for me. And. I was hoping to. To just. Just survive the full 12 days. And to. To get past. Mount Blanc. Turns out that. You know. I did survive. The full 12 days.

And we got to. Mount Blanc. It just. Happened that. You know. Actually. Everybody was so. Freaking good. And so fast. That. We. We did that. But we were still. At the. The very back.

Yeah. Yeah. There's. There's no redeeming. Needed man. You just competed. In. In the hardest thing. There is. In my. Opinion. I mean. I know there's a lot of hard races. Out there. But. You did great man. You crushed. And. You did have some epic days. At the end. I was watching closely. And cheering you guys on. So. But. Cody. Thank you man. I appreciate it. And. And. I wish you well there. At the U.S. Nationals. I hope you guys get some good days. Ahead. And. I can't wait to fly with you. Again. And just get back to what we do. Which is. Flying in the Rockies. And trying to go big. So. But. Appreciate it man. And. And. Again. Congratulations.

Okay. And next up. We have Patrick Von Cannell. His mentors. Are Chrigel. And. Kriegel's brother. McHale. I was. I've always said Michael. But I think it's McHale. And. He's a. Test pilot for advanced. You've heard him on the show. He's big. He's strong. He's an amazing pilot. He and I flew. Pretty much all day together. Day. Two. And then. Launched together in Aschau. And made some good distance. That evening. He's a. Terrific athlete. He did. He had an amazing race. I wasn't able to reel him in. There at the end. But. He came in. He came in. Eighth place. I believe. And. Just. An awesome first effort. It's going to be really exciting. To watch. Him in the future. So. Enjoy this talk with Patrick.

Yeah. The fan thing is neat. That's really cool. People come out. And give you food. And fruit. And water. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Maybe. One situation. Was very special. With the weather. In the beginning. Was really nice. And then. There was three days. In Switzerland. Where the weather was. Quite bad. It was. Flyable. But. But not thermals. And. But then. We saw. Or. I think. For. Everybody. Was the same. We saw that. A good window. Is coming. Nice weather. Is coming. After these three days. So. I was really looking forward.

To. To the nice weather. And then. Finally. We had this. Nice weather. But it was. So stable. No thermals. And. We left Switzerland. And it was. Really. Really stable. And we. Couldn't manage. Distance. So. This was. Really. Hard for me. For the mind. To. To push forward. Because. It was. Nice weather. And. It was. Looks. It was looking very good. And then. I was thinking. All the time. Maybe. The. The others. In. In front. Or in the back of me. Can fly. And then. I can fly. So. This was. Very.

Hard for. Yeah. Stressful. For. For my mind. And. This one. I. Didn't. Expect it. So much. That. That. It's so. Stressful. Yeah. I. I really struggled. With those last three days. With the stability. It was. It was like. Incomprehensible. Almost. I'd never seen. Weather that stable. Actually. And so hot. And I. I think the same thing. I. You know. I. I. Those three days. In the middle. That were. Stormy. And. Lots of rain. And. You know. But. In retrospect. They were. For me. At least. A lot more fun. Because you could hike and fly. And like. Piece it together. And still make distance.

And. At least it was cool. So it was nice for walking. And then. In that heat. It was just. You. You would hike. You know. Two thousand. Five hundred meters. And fly. And not hear a single. Blip. On your vario. Crazy. It's just. Unbelievable. So. Yeah. That was. I agree. That was. That was a really tough time. And I think it's. Like. Special. Because. You were thinking. How old. When we. Managed. These three. Days. So it's. It's looks better. But. Then actually. It was better. Than before. I think. This point. Was very hard. To. To. For. For. Our head. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

What was your biggest mistake. Of the race.

I think. The biggest. I think. The biggest. Mistake. Was. In the end. Maybe.

80. Or 90. K. Before. The goal. I was. Trying. To catch. Ben. Line. Kusel. Bauer. To. To fly. Straight. Or. It was. It was. One thing. To. To. To. To. Catch. Ben. And. Kusel. Bauer. But. Also. For me. The safer. Way. And. I flew. Out. And. Straight. This valley. And. From. Santilla. From. And. A little bit. After. And. Last. Turn. Point. Schwalblasch. And. The whole. Group. Flew. More. In the south.

So. From. There. They managed. To fly.

Closer. To. To. Pile. Mm. And. I flew out. This valley. And. On. The end. In the beginning. Was very good. It works well. And then. I was. Was thinking. Oh. Yeah. It's. It's good. And. Then. Finally. When I got. To the end. Of this. This valley. That there was. A big. Corner. That the valley. Makes. A big. Corner. And. There was. A lot. Of wind. A lot. Of. Sea breeze. That makes. Very stable. And. So. It was. Finished. With the. Terminal. And. I had. To land. Um. It was. Around. 30k. Before. The goal. And. The guys. They was.

Behind me. They took. The. Route. In the south. And they overtook. Me. Um. It was. Gaspar. But. Yo. Simon. Oberauner. And. Manu. Nebel. And. So. Um. I lost. Few places. But. For me. You know. It was a mistake. But not a really big mistake. Because. It was.

When I managed. To fly out. The whole. Of this valley. Maybe the chance. Is. Here. To catch. Benoit. And. Kuschelbauer. Yeah. I mean. You've got to give it a shot. Don't you? Yeah. For sure. And I was thinking. I want to try something. Other. Yeah. And. It was. Also. For me. The safer way. To. Because. The main goal. Was to reach. Monaco. Yeah. So. It was. A little bit. Bad. And. Now. It's. It was. It was a mistake. To. To fly out. This valley. But. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't sound like too much of a mistake. It just sounds like you were. You know. You were trying to do. What. What made sense. You know. It's paragliding.

Sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't work. Yeah. Exactly. And. I think. There are. There was. A lot of. Small mistakes.

And. But. Not. Big mistakes. That we was on the end. Maybe. 50. K. 50. K. Behind.

Someone. It was. Just. Small. Small mistakes. That makes. Small. Different. But. With. With. With. With. Some points. Where he was. Very lucky. We managed to. To catch. Or to make it. Better. And. Yeah. What was your. What was your best day. And what was your worst day.

Cool. Yeah. Actually. When I looking. Back. One of the best day. Was. Was. When we flew. Together. To. Where was that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was great. It was. In the beginning. Was. Very tricky. And then. We meet us. In the air. And. So it's very nice. To fly together. Yeah. That was. That was really fun. And fun. And easy. Nice flying. Wasn't it. It was great. Yeah. No wind. And I was. I was thinking. It. It's. Will be quite hard. To. To. To fly. To usher. Because this. Because of this. Irish. And wind. Yeah. But. It was quite easy. And. Yeah. It was. Really nice. Flying. And then. The evening.

Flight. From. From. Kampenland. Was really nice. To fly.

To this. Hochkönig. Yeah. I think. Hochkönig. And then. Direction. To. To.

Yeah. To Kronplatz. Yeah. The worst. They. They. Maybe. It was. The. The last day. Because. We went up. To the takeoff. The. The weather forecast. Was looking. Quite good. So. The. The weather forecast. Said that. We have. Thermals. From.

1030. Around. 11 o 'clock. Then. We was. On the takeoff. At. 1030. And. There was. Quite a lot. Of backwind. And. We was. Waiting. There. Maybe. For. Two hours.

And. I.

I get. Quite. Nervous. On the takeoff. Because. I was thinking. I have to fly. Otherwise. I didn't manage. To. To reach. Monaco. And. Then. I took off. Not with. A. Good. Feeling. And. I managed. To. To. To. To fly. To. Schwalblasch. To the. Last. Turnpoint. Before. Biele. And. Then. It was. Really hard. To make the decisions. Where. Where. Where. Where. I have to go. And. Which route. I have to take. And. I was. Not very. Comfortable. In the air. I was thinking. Quite a lot.

What. What should I do. What is the best. And. This was. For the head. Really. Um. So. It's really tough. For me. If you could. Rewind the clock. To this last year. Preparing for the race. Would you do anything. Differently. Than what you did. Knowing what you know. Now. Um. Yeah. Maybe one thing. That I will. Do a little bit. Different. Is. To. To start. Earlier. With. With. The long walks. Um. Um. Because. I started. With the first. Uh. Long walks. In. March. Okay. And. After. The second one.

I had. Um. Some pain. In my knees. And then I had to. To rest. Or. Yeah. To be very careful. Until. The race start. Because of my knees. That they. Recover. Uh. As. Much as possible. So I think. For the next. Time. It will be. Better. To. To start. Earlier. And maybe. A little bit. Slower. Yeah. Um. With. With this long walks. To. To be. I think. There I can. Prepare. Better. Yeah. You know. With my. I have really. Bad knees. And. You know. Ben. Ben is my trainer. He organizes all of that. But he. Uh. He really recommends. You know.

A. Not running. You know. He's running. It's just so hard on your body. But also. Mm-hmm. Like. Like we usually start. Kind of. Mid-September. And. You know. The walks then. Are like 10K. You know. Really short. And they're not. Like really fast. You know. They're. They're short. And they're mellow. And. Uh. No pack. And then you just. Very slowly. Build up. You know. And I. I have no. I have very bad knees. But I have no knee pain. And I haven't had any knee pain. In any of the races. So I. I think it's. That's a good. Good idea to start. You know. And. Yeah. Do a lot. Of the mobility stuff. Rolling out on the balls. And. You know. If you do a lot of that. It just keeps the joints. Lubricated. And the muscles. Supple. You know. Yeah.

So. So Patrick. It sounds like. Uh. You've already made this. This decision. But. Uh. Will you do it again?

Yeah. It's. It's really hard to say. At the moment. And. Two days. The. The Eiger Tour. It's a. I can fly race. Here in the. In the Alps. We'll start. And. And. Then. There. I see. How. Motivated. I am. Are. At the moment. And. Yeah. Then after. I will. Will see. Um. What's going on. And on the end of the year. I think. I want to make the decision. And of course. When I do it again. I want to. To. Prepare. Um. Same. Or a little bit. More than. Than. Than this year. Uh. But at the moment. It's. It's too early. To. To say something. Yeah.

I. Ask you a question. That I. Haven't. The. With the others. But. Your. Your. Teammate. And countrymate. Who I spoke to. Earlier today. Um. Chrigel. You know. Once again. He. Um. For me personally. I think everybody. He's so inspiring. He's so good at this. Um. And once again. He proved. Just how good. He has at this. I mean. I think he probably had. The toughest competition. He's had. In his. Six races. This time. With Maxine. Breathing down his neck. There. For those first few days. Um. But. I. I don't. See. That it's possible. That any of us. Can. Can ever. Touch him. You know. Somebody like yourself. Who's big. And strong. And young. And.

Uh. You know. Obviously. Really. Really talented. Obviously. Has much more of a chance. Than someone like me. But. You know. Do you see. That. Uh. Can anybody. Take Chrigel?

Hmm.

I think. This year. We. We saw. With Maxine. That he can. Follow Chrigel. But it was. It's. From the outside. It was looking. Chrigel is. Is like. Maybe. In the comfort. Zone. And. And Maxine. Is pushing really hard. Hmm. And. Yeah. I think. I think. Maxine will. Prepare. Also really hard. And. Come back. Strong. Strong. And then this year. But. Yeah. Chrigel has now. So. A lot of experience. And he can. Stay so cool. In. In. Really important. Decisions. And.

I will say. It's gonna. It will be. Really hard. To. To make it better. Than Chrigel. And at the moment. I don't know. But. I'm. That can. Can make this. Hmm. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Patrick. I. I wish you the very best. At the Eiger tour. I was actually thinking about coming over. And. And joining you guys. But I. I don't think my feet. Are quite ready. I had. That last night. Of walking all night. In the heat. Was really. Really damaged. My. My feet. They're fine now. But they're. You know. I. I. I held up so fine. For the race. Until that heat. Just sucked it out of me. But. Anyway. I'll be watching. The. Live tracking. And. Wishing well. On you guys. And say hi to Michael.

For me. That looks like a terrific event. I hope to come over next summer. And do it. But. It was. Just. Awesome. To fly with you. Day two. That was so much fun. And. It was awesome. To watch you do. So well. In the race. But. Congratulations. With getting to Monaco. And. And. I wish you all the best. And. I hope we get to share some thermals. In the very near future.

Yeah. Thanks a lot. Kevin. Congratulations. To you. As well. Thank you. And yeah. From my side as well. It was. I really enjoyed the time. To fly with you. It was. Really great. And I think we was. A really good team. Yeah. And together we managed. To. To fly. To. To our show. It was really. Important there. Yeah. And yeah. It will be great. To see you. See you back here. In the Alps. Awesome. I can't wait.

Eduardo Garza. Team Mexico 1. Coming off an awesome result. In the 2018 X-Peer. He was a rookie this time. And fought super tenaciously. Came in right in the middle of the pack. Which I know. He was psyched about. He's got a great story. About getting caught. In a gust front. That's a little hair. Hair raising for sure. Enjoy.

Eduardo. Hey. Thanks for coming on the Mayhem. I really appreciate it. We got to spend a little time. In Verbier. Right after the race. Which was really special. And pretty much. Probably should have done it then. Rather than now. When you're back in Boston. And our lives are moving onwards. But I'm sure the race is still. Very fresh. And man. It was a good. It was a good race. With you. And we were. We were very close to each other. Quite a bit. And congratulations man. I know it. For both of us. Would have been. Much more awesome. To get to Monaco. But still. A valiant. And epic effort. Especially for your first one. And so. Yeah. Let's just start off. With you. Congratulations. Absolutely. Thank you Gavin. Certainly. It was a. Race to remember for us.

It was. Difficult some days. A lot of fun. Other days. But. The experience. The experience was amazing. Yeah. And congratulations to you too. You were pushing. Like a beast. Every single day. We're like. How can we catch up to this guy?

Yeah. It was a beast mode. Was required in this one. God. It was. The pace was incredible. I know. I've. I'm sorry listeners. I keep saying. Saying that with every. Every. Every athlete. We've had on here. But man. It's been. The pace was insane this year. It was. Yes. Certainly was. I think that was my. My. Biggest takeaway from the race. All the teams. Were really well prepared. Yeah. Everyone. Was pushing. Relentlessly. Every single day. If you hadn't done. 30k. By 10 a.m. You were falling behind. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It was. It was. It was impressive to watch. It was really incredible. And. And hard. Those last days. With the heat. Jesus. That was hot. And tough work. But. I prefer that.

The stormy. Gus front. You know. Thunderstorms. Any day. And the rain. And all that. Over that stuff. At the end. That was. That was. A brutal way. At least for me. To end. I didn't like that stuff much. Yes. Exactly. I think I would go. 50-50. With that thunderstorms. And heat. Just because. You know. At the. At the X-Pyr. Actually.

We had. Most of the days. At least my first time. It was. Very. Very hot. And really gets to you. But. You know. You just push through. And. Yes. It's going to be. Going to be very difficult. On the body. But. On the thunderstorm side. We actually got in. In a few situations. During this race. That. Were pretty gnarly. And. Yeah. So. Survival mode. Pretty much turns on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Tell. Tell. Tell everybody. One of them. Give. Give. What was the worst? Well. The worst. This time. And. I was thinking about. All the differences. Between the X-Pyr. And the X-Selves. You know. Being in a thunderstorm. Is. Is bad. Anywhere. You know. It's. It's one of the worst. Case scenarios.

And. When. A thunderstorm. Just appears. On top of you. You're trying to dodge. The others. And you say. Yeah. I'm clear. But. Then one appears. On top of you. You. It's not only. Anywhere. However. I think in the Alps. Is even. More dangerous. Just because of the topography. Yeah. Of course. You know. The thunderstorms. Yeah. The valley systems. And everything. You just. Man. They can get you. From every angle. Exactly. And. They can be channeled. So. The air. The gusperums. Are channeled. Can be channeled. Towards you. And that's exactly. What happened to us. After. Tagging Lermos. Going to Davos. You know. There's. There's two valleys. Right. One is the direct valley. Through Galtur. Yeah. And the other one. Was the Squall Valley.

So. I believe. That you took the Squall Valley. And. I was flying with Judah. And he took the same route. I said. You know what. Next day. Might not be. That good for flying. So. Might as well take. The direct route. Yeah. That was a mistake. Because. I went. Just to Galtur. We were at. Probably. 22. 2300 meters. So. I was planning. To just do a glide. And then. Walk the night. And then. Early morning. Just flying to Davos. But. What. I had realized. Is. That. The dark. End. Of the valley. Was approaching. Way too fast. So. I said. Well. I'll land. I'll. Just walk through the thunderstorm. And then. Just. Just continue my way. But. Once I started getting lower.

In the valley. Once I started getting to. Probably. 2000. Or 1500. I saw. That my. Forward speed. Was decreasing. Rapidly. So. From. 50 kilometers an hour. Went to 30. To 10. To 0. Then to minus 20. Then to minus 40. I was going backwards. At 40 kilometers an hour. Push you. Full bar. Oh. I. I remember looking down. I know. It was. It was one of those situations. Where. The race. Goes into. Into lowest priority. And you're in survival mode. Yeah. Of course. You know. I remember looking down. And I said. Huh. Those bushes. Seem to be. Moving. A lot.

But there were no bushes. There were 100 foot trees. You know. So. At that point. As. My brain starts. Just trying to come up with ideas. Of. Well. Really not getting hurt. And the first thing. That I think. Is. Just landing. Where I am. But then I see. The trees. Bending. Just. Just at my. Altitude. They were bending. 45 degrees. I'm talking. Big. Big. Trees. And there's no good. Landing zones. In that valley. Because it's. So narrow. And it's so full. With houses. You know. There's. There's a lot of development. I even remember. Flying. On top of the street. Probably. 20. 30 meters. Above the street. Trying to make. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A. A.

A. A.

So. So. At that point. I said. You know. My only chance. Of getting out. Of. This one. Without being. In the morning. News. Is. Getting high. Again. And landing. As high. As possible. Even if I had. To go back. 10 kilometers. So. You know. I've. I've. A lot. Of people. Asked me. What. Happened. That day. Because. You. Went. Forward. Then. Went. Back. 10. Kilometers. And. Then. You. Stay. There. Well. Well, it was not a lot of my choice. I was just going back because I couldn't penetrate. But at this point, I was just trying to find any bridge or any rock that was jutting out into the valley flow so I could get up again. And I actually found it. There's like a bend on the valley. So I found this huge spine that I could soar on, but I was soaring at 10 meters per second.

Yeah. Wow, man.

So I'm going up, up, up. And once I reached 2,500 meters or 2,600 meters, I think, the forward speed starts increasing. But I know it's going to get worse because now I'm feeling the raindrops on my wing and I start hearing them. It's not a good sound. So I just turned back at that altitude and land at 2,600 meters.

I don't remember the name of the mountain.

Wolfspitze. But it's the one that it's pretty much at the beginning of Landik. So you can take the squall route or you can take the Galtur route. So it's right on the edge. So I landed, packed in five minutes, and just went and get some shelter at the lift station because it was getting early. It was... The thunderstorm was approaching. And fortunately, I was able to land fine. And the most amazing thing happened afterwards. So I'm there waiting for my team. There's this person who arrives and says, Hey, you Eduardo? He's like, yeah.

He's like, oh, I brought you some hot tea, some watermelon, some bananas, and some other food. I was like, what? So people were watching. Yeah. That was... I think one of the coolest things. One of the coolest things in the race is that people are, you know, live tracking you. Yeah. And they just want to help. They just want to meet the athletes, you know? So that was super cool, actually. That's really cool. That's actually my last question. So we've done... You've already answered the last one. Good story, man. It's interesting, too, because the... You know, in my experience and the experience of the other athletes I've spoken to who have done, you know, other races in the past as well, this was the mellowest of the races. You know, like wind-wise, weather-wise, it was just... It was, you know, for the most part, pretty tame.

But there was these... You know, there were a lot of thunderstorms in that middle section of the race, day four, five, and six, or whatever, five, six, and seven, I guess. That, you know, if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it was mean. It was grumpy. And, yeah, a lot of people did get hit by that. And then that always makes me think about, you know, this race in general. But, you know, like the day we got to Kronplatz, and, you know, I top-landed and relaunched immediately. And it was really deteriorating fast, you know. And I was actually thinking about the people behind me, thinking like, man, I would not want to be later than this. And because the north was still pretty good. And when I got back over the spine, it was, you know, like behind me, there was already lightning and lots of stuff dropping out.

And I thought, God, you know, but if I was back there, I'd fly through it just like everybody else did, you know. But if we were just flying, you know, you and I in the Rockies or anywhere in the world on a day like that, you'd go land and go swimming. Oh, absolutely. You would never do that, you know. But you know what? You were talking about the people behind you. Well, I think I saw you going to Meyerhofen. Yeah. So I was right. I was behind. And I remember seeing Kronplatz from the distance. And I turned to my left, which is the east. And there's this wall of rain. Yeah. It's coming down. You're pouring. But then you have on the west, sun feeding everything. So it wasn't that bad from that perspective.

The problem was the darkness on the south. So probably one kilometer or not even one kilometer, probably 600 meters south of Kronplatz where the Dolomites really start. It was just so dark. So I said, you know what? I don't think it can get any worse than this. And then at that moment, I just didn't like it. It was just lightning, like hitting the rocks and super nasty. I was like, you know what? It can get worse. Yeah. Yeah.

And I thought to

myself, I have to go there and land. I have to sign the board. And then I have to do a little chat. And then I have to launch. And then I have to huff it towards Innsbruck or towards Solden because the path towards Meyerhofen was actually now in rain by that point. So I was like, you know what? On a normal day, I wouldn't do this. I mean, I would see everything happening around me and I would go straight to land. But obviously you're racing. And number two, you don't want to walk or hike more than you need. So, yes, I guess the race really pushes you to make that tough decision. However, I would have to say that while in the air, I was at 3500 meters because the day was just exploding.

I looked at the radar and I saw that the thunderstorms would actually be. Yeah. Contained, let's say south of Kronplatz. Yeah. So that's why I made the decision just to head land as quick as possible and then just get out as quick as possible. Just because the rain was going to be maintained and contained. And also the thunderstorms from the south were going to be in the same place or moving from west to east, I should say. That's a good point to have that. You know, I think that's one of the aspects that a lot of people with live tracking don't either see or know. I know that we're utilizing as much as we are as the technology. You know, I mean, there wasn't any time in the race where I didn't have Revis, you know, a phone press away where I could, you know, like that day flying towards Davos, the one you were talking about, you got in the gust front.

And I chose the south line because the north line was, you know, clearly blowing up. And it was a big sell over Davos. And, you know, and he's looking at all these on the radar and, you know, the hectopass wherever it is for the depth of how big these things are. Yeah. Yeah. And he was feeding me constant information in the sky where I could, you know, I still did top land at one point just because I was like, dude, are you sure? Like, this looks bad, the stuff I'm flying into. And he was like, yeah, you know, we're going to get ahead of you. And if it gets bad down here on the ground, we'll let you know. And you could slope land high. And so I kept forging on. And at one point he finally did. He was like, okay, now, you know, we had light wind and I would now classify the winds as dangerous and we're getting heavy raindrops and, you know, you need to slope land. But it's, you know, that.

That information that your team provides is just, or that you can just dial into in the air if you're good at that stuff like you are, then, you know, it's just so incredible that we have that at our fingertips. And it's so, you know, you really need to use it. Well, hey, that, that leads me to the first question, uh, really is what, you know, when you look back at the last year and, you know, you've done the X-Pear twice, you and I have both have the same trainer and Ben Abruzzo as Willie did. And I think physically that worked out really well for all three of us. Um, but what, if anything, did you underestimate?

Underestimating. I think I should have spent more time in the Ups, you know, definitely, uh, on the physical side, Ben, you know, he's, he's just amazing. He, he knows exactly what you need. And I never felt that I was out of shape for anything. Even getting to Switzerland and doing two monster high. And then having to walk afterwards, it was a non-issue at the end of the day, my body screamed, stop, you know, you have to recover. So I, I, I do feel that, uh, well, at night I was not able to move sometimes, but by the morning, you know, if you get good, good rest, at least from 12 to four, I mean, we woke up at four 30 at five o 'clock.

I was ready to go for a night. I was ready to go for another, you know, 50 K. I think we averaged 48 kilometers, um, on the ground per day. So by the next morning I was, I was always fine. So physically, physically, I was fine and kudos to, to Ben. He's awesome. Um, on the flying side, on the X-Spear, for example, there is a very well-defined flying routes. You can take some variants, but that. Won't be that significant, you know, in the Alps, for example, flying from either to Mont Blanc. There were so many routes you could cross to the Sion Valley, Nard and Bowden, or you could just go to Martini, or you could take the North route through Samoense.

And it all depends on, on the weather. And well, if you really know the route or not. So that was our first time flying in that area. And well, fortunately we're able to, to devise a plan. Uh, and, and while you mentioned technology, this was a day with very strong West wind.

So I was in communication constantly with my team used to see where the wind was less strong and they gave me the perfect information. So they said, you know what, go through Chamonix instead of having 35 kilometers an hour at, uh, 2,500 meters, you have half of that or less. So I made myself, you know, I, I, I just, uh, went quickly to Chamonix and that worked perfectly. Um, but again, there's so many routes that you can follow. And if you are not that well versed in the area, it can be, it can be very difficult to spend two weeks scouting.

Two weeks is nothing really. Yeah. If you want to scout at 1,138 kilometer routes. Uh, we scouted just due to the weather in may, mostly it was France. So we scouted 20 % of the race, but we were able to cover 80%, meaning that many of the areas were completely new to us. Uh, Eduardo, what was your biggest mistake? From a strategy point? I think that not flying, not flying early enough, my mistake. And that's all on me. Because I. Sometimes decided to take lights and then hike up again when I should have waited 30 more minutes or 45 more minutes for the day to start turning on.

And then slowly, but surely make your way through the course. You know, this happened when we were crossing, uh, uh, criminal bus that day turned on at probably 9 30 AM and at 8 45, close to nine, I was doing a glide to where I. I think. You were there. We were in whole salve and I glided south, like towards the bill. Coal.

And I was on the ground and I start seeing this clouds just pop everywhere and very high. It's like, oh my goodness, this is going to be another speed hike of, uh, 1500 meter in a cent and five kilometer total. So, uh, I was late. Uh, it didn't start at 10 30, for example, or 10. 10 o 'clock. I started at 1130, close to 12. And that's why we got in province and crumpled. So 40 K on the table there. And that really hurt. Best day. Worst day. One of the last days for me flew from, uh, link and we got to close to Albertville, close to a Guinea on a word tours on a way towards, uh, San Gilead.

That was, that was actually a pretty good fly because the wind was so strong. I was with. The Judah according. And he has a bigger glider and he was able to penetrate and take a route north. I couldn't follow him. It's like, you know what? This is not going to work for me. I'm going to sink out. I have to figure it out. So I started going to the big hitches on the south. So I was shielding myself from the wind on the big riches and pretty much just flying the Lee all day. And I get to this area. I had never flown the area of the Abner. So I get to this. Uh, To this huge ball. It was just amazing. Amazing ball where I said, you know what? Let me go back. Let me take a few pictures and then continue the course because it was so awesome.

Uh, and then we flew through Chamonix and landed in a unit and then we started walking. Uh, but those two days, definitely the best, um, worst day, you know, we didn't have, uh, a bad day per se, but I would have to say that they were the Thunder. Thunder.

I think these are these are these are these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these these to get pinned. I got really pinned in 2017 and, uh, bombed out leaving Learmoose and hiked up in the best part of the day. And we, I, we knew it was going to OD. And by the time I got to the top, uh, my, my team was out of cell network and they couldn't find me a launch. Uh, they were stuck in the mud. And so I, I, I had two choices. I could go left or I could go right. And we knew there was a launch up there because it's all treed on top of this. That's that kind of Island above above Imst and, uh, under the airspace there. And I, we, we knew there was a launch up there because Toma had used it in front of us and I, I could have turned right or left and I went left and the launch was to the right.

And so by the time I got high enough to get up kind of above the trees where there was kind of a launch, it was already ODing and dumping on me. And so I had to run back down to the hut, had a wonderful night in the hut and drinking beer and, you know, and had a good feed and had a great sleep, but you know, 10 hours of no movement. And, uh, I just, these days in the race, you can't, your race is over. You're done. If you do that, you know, you just, you just can't get pinned anymore. You know, you just got to keep moving. And I almost got pinned this time on top of Titlis. You know, we had like a two minute window that opened up between a snowstorm and I was able to punch out, but if I hadn't been, you know, the guys in front of me would have gotten 50 K on me. And so, yeah, it's, yeah, the, the pace is intense. Well, you, you've already answered if you prepared differently, what would you, what would you do?

You'd, you'd scout. So I'll jump to the next one. Uh, will you do it again?

Excellent question.

It's the obvious one. It's the one everybody asks, but the answers have been interesting. I know it's, uh, let me just forget about the pain because, you know, and I know, you know, this, but there's no worse thing than getting up at 4 30 AM knowing that ahead of you is a day with only rain and you have to walk 70 kilometers and you're going to be wet. You're going to be cold and you just have to do it. You know, it's, it's a lot of pain. It takes, takes a lot from you just to dig deep and find the motivation to actually do it, you know? Uh, which is also, I think that I'm proud of the team because we always push that. We never gave up.

We, we were pushing as hard as we could. So we have definitely no regrets.

We left it all there. You know, we, we gave it our all and that was the result that we got in the end, you know? So let me just forget about the pain and then I can answer that question a little bit better. But, um, you know, it's also a lot of money and time, mostly if you're coming from America, just, uh, plane tickets, um, then you have, you have to stay somewhere, you know, and then all the rentals because you're, obviously you don't have a van over there, but you have to rent everything. So it's, it's a big expense. I would need to find a bigger sponsor. It's a very cool race. It's, it's, it's an amazing experience, but it's a, a question that I need more time to answer. Yeah. I find that there's kind of a hole in, in life that is hard to fill after the X-Ops.

And I felt the exact same way after the last two as well, but you know, there's so much preparation and training and anticipation and planning and, and laughs with the team and just everything. I mean, and also just, there is something very special about being supported by your team for that period of time where, you know, your whole job is just to go as hard as you can and they think, you know, and, and I don't know, it's like, it's a camaraderie that I don't easily find in, you know, in regular life. Uh, and I'm not, I mean, I'm not complaining by any means. I'm just, it's just, it's very intense and it's not just the race. It's very intense for a long time before the race. Uh, and then it just ends, you know, and in our case, it ends in a weird place.

Uh, in fact, ending in Monaco is the worst because, you know, I, I, I have said over and over again, how much I hate that place, but you end, you know, you've just flown through the most amazing scenery in the world really, uh, in a lot of ways and had this incredible experience and you end in this concrete jungle jungle and you fly down to the raft. And, uh, and there's not one person there. I mean, there's no fans, there's nothing, there's nothing. It's, it's, we're very weird ending there. Uh, in some ways I'd rather end where we, of course you'd rather end in Monaco than where we did, but, you know, ending at Col de Lazard with just my team and there's, you know, it's, it's a, it's a very strange thing. You just did 12 o 'clock, it's done and you're, you go away and it's over. Yeah. Now you can actually get in a car and, and, and act like a normal person.

Exactly. Uh, what advice would you have for someone? Because you were a rookie this year and you, you know, you were obviously building up to this. I know you applied in 2017, uh, didn't get in and, you know, but you had these two really successful X-Pierre campaigns behind you. And I'm sure that really weighed heavily in the selection committee to, you know, for this time. But, um, what advice would you give either just like to get in the race or just, you know, to prepare for something like this for all the people who watch there, you know, are inspired? And start thinking, you know, maybe it's something I'd like to do.

You know, you mentioned the 2017, the time that I applied and didn't get in. Um, I think it was a good decision from the organization because I don't think I was prepared enough. I had to get more hiking fly races under my belt to even think

in tackling this, this magnitude of fun events. And right now I feel that I was ready and, and that's why we're able to push and keep up with very, very good teams. But in 2017, uh, I wouldn't have done it because I was just not prepared. I mean, we had done the 2016 X-Pierre, uh, but, uh, the team logistics, just the flying, uh,

aspect of it, you know, always land, land high. If you have serious, just land high and wait for it. And it opens up and you keep going. I mean, that wasn't something that I had developed or, or at least understood that well. So I needed the next X-Pierre, the 2018 X-Pierre to, to really see how other teams work. For example, we were flying a lot with Nelson de Freyman. He obviously knows what he's doing. He's done the X-Alps twice. And we were flying the whole route in the X-Pierre. And it was, uh, it was a very good experience, learning experience for me. So now I say, you know what, now I think I'm prepared for the X-Alps because if you try to make the X-Alps your first race, it will be overwhelming. It's, it's a big undertaking.

Uh, you better get the logistics, better get in, in, in the mind mindset that the hiking flyer race is with a shorter race. It can be a two day, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour, two hour. So it's only a two day race. Uh, it can be a three day or, or the X-Pierre, which it's still an undertaking, but it's not two weeks or 11 days. It's only seven days. So that would be my advice. Compare the, give it to me on a scale. What's the magnitude of the X-Pierre versus the X-Alps? You know, like, is it, is it 50, a hundred? Is it 70, a hundred? Is it 10, a hundred?

Uh, on the X-Pierre, I would say it's like 60 to a hundred. let's say okay just and i'm going by length and and also by the size of the mountains you actually have to hike in order to get to a launch on the x-peer you don't have to always hike 1500 meters to 1000 meters i mean there are lower launches just because you know the height of the mountains is normally the highest around 3000 but everything else around 2000 2500 so in in terms of physical exertion i would say uh 6200 okay okay interesting yeah that's uh yeah and great advice i think and several others have have uh you know chimed in on that as well that it's yeah i think i think the other thing that maybe nick nanan said it interesting he said that you know the if you just apply for the X-Alps to see you know like just to get the experience of applying but then you get in and you're not really ready then that might be your only chance you know you you actually they are very selective if you don't do pretty well you know we you're you get the ax then you're not going to get the invite back and uh you know so i think you really do you want to you want to wait to apply when you're ready eduardo that's it man i appreciate it thank you so much for uh answering these questions and sharing your experience and again congratulations and i do hope you'll do it again because you are a fierce competitor and i think you're just warming up and uh you're obviously fit as a fiddle and uh so yeah i hope you i hope you keep pushing and i hope we see you back in 2021 i hope i'm smart and i'll be watching you that time this time but we shall see but thanks eduardo thank you very much and finally of course we'll save the best for last creagle this was his sixth win unbelievable Unbelievable.

Just, I say this, I think, in the interview over and over again, completely inspiring. He is truly at a totally new level. Maxime certainly gave him the hardest run I think he's had yet in his six wins, but still way out there in front and still incredible to watch. Just nothing to say, but awesome. Enjoy, Chrigel.

Chrigel, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing your thoughts. I thought this would be really fun to ask a bunch of the teams kind of the same questions while it's still very fresh. It's been a little over a week now since you won your incredible sixth Red Bull X-Humps. Just remarkable, man. It's really exciting to watch you operate in the mountains and very inspiring and always incredibly humbling. So first off, just congratulations. Was this... Any more special than the other wins or is it just chalking another one up? Yeah, thank you very much, Kevin, and congratulations to you. It was a hard week for all the athletes, I think.

Yeah. Also for me, because it was a long distance, there was many turn points to sign and finally we were lucky with the weather. For me, it was more easy than other editions because there was less wind, no phone. Not too much thunderstorms. So it felt more safe at all. And for me, it was... Some days, it was really a pleasure because crossing the main ridge, the Alps, by flywise, it's always more easy and exciting. So for me, it was the goal to win for sure, but also to have the safe moves. I mean, to have always smart and good decisions.

And to move... And to move... And to move on with the safe character. So finally, I reached Monaco with all this and it makes me very proud to end a hard race, a hard adventure, without any problems, with a healthy body. And that makes me very happy. And I think it's the best one ever I did. I was just going to say, was this your favorite win? Yeah, for sure. It was the plan, but it's always different in an adventure. Yeah. So I remember... For 2017, for example, I wanted to save. And after the first day, when I covered 80K on the road, my knee was damaged. So I got an injury where I'm not getting in control until Monaco.

So the knee was all day painful and that was not the fun. And in the end, I say, okay, I end a hard race, but my knee is in the problem. It needs seven weeks. So I'm going to try to get back to the normal. So it was not so the best one. And this year, I was really careful with my body. I really have my team which controlled me. And finally, with these rules and this checklist, I was able to manage all day safe. And it makes me very happy. What was this? You know, in some ways, I mean, you're always out in front and you're always very difficult, if not impossible, to catch for the others. But in some ways... In some ways, I felt like, you know, again, this is just from when I was walking, I could watch a little bit of the tracking and stuff.

But it seemed like you had to fight harder in this one than in previous editions. Was this the hardest one to win? I mean, in the end, you were still quite a ways out in front of Maxime. But he put up a pretty good fight. He did very good. And he's a really good athlete. I know him from the PWC. He's a very excellent flyer. It means he can fly alone. Find the best core in the tournament to have a good climb. And he's very smart as well. So my tactic was to fly until Switzerland to my, for me, difficult turn point, the Titlis. And after we will see if I can improve or not. So I was quite relaxed. So when he was with me or in front of me, for me, it was okay because of this tactic.

And finally, when I... Made this turn point flyways in day four, I felt a big help because he was stuck in the cloud or because of a thunderstorm. He was not so fast at this moment. So I was maybe in Davos. I was maybe 45 minutes in the lead. And on the end, it was almost one day. So this day four, when I could land on the Titlis, it was really a pre-decision. And for me, a big help to stay relaxed.

I did a podcast with Patrick just a few weeks before the race. And he was telling me about the kind of academy, like the Exalps Academy that you've started. And you've got some pilots like him. And I think one of his supporters, I think, is also really solid. What are the kind of the main things that you're... trying to pass along to these younger Exalps pilots that really make a difference in the race? What are the kind of... What are the things you put up on the chalkboard? Like, hey, this is what you really... For example, he mentioned that one of the things that you talk about in the academy is that the little things add up.

So the speed that you pack your glider and the... If you get another 500 meters in the little... the little flights and the little glides, then over the course of 10 days, it really adds up. And I was thinking about that during the race. Like, I really spent quite a bit of time this time learning to pack my glider fast. But very often when I would unpack the glider, I'd have like a little tangle or a little... Like, it was just slowing me down. Little, little, little, little. Like one time, Patrick and I launched at the same time in Aschau. And he was in the air five minutes before I was from almost the same place because I was farting around with my glider. And I thought, gosh, this is just one little part of my game where I really need to refine.

And by the end of the race, you know, I'd figured it out. I just wasn't putting my lines back correctly. But what are things like that that, you know, in your mind, like if you could advise the community, maybe the people that are thinking about someday doing the X-Ops, what are the things that you're obviously doing better than everybody else?

Yeah. First of all, I really like to share my experience to other pilots. They like this adventure races. I mean, it's not only X-Ops. It's all about the year. They are hiking competitions. And I think there is a good community in enduring sport like marathon or in flying like Swiss League or all the leagues in the countries. But there is no really something to learn about hiking flight. So with my sponsor, Teamwork, we started this X-Ops Academy one and a half year ago. And the goal was really to motivate and to share the experience with young pilots. They like this style of hiking flight competitions.

And for sure, there was a goal to have young pilots in the future in the X-Ops. So with Patrick, he was a bit lucky because he was very good in flying already. And so there was one year of... of working together to share the experience, to have a look of all the details of the important things, of strategy, of teams, team settings, everything like this. And I think with this work, he was very fast, quite well prepared. So when I needed, for example, two editions of X-Ops, he was ready in one year. And I think it's also for the future. So it's a very good tool to have,

to share all the experience under all the athletes and to come better and better in this specific discipline, I think.

What, if anything, could you change? You know, you and I and Tom were on that kind of athlete committee that you put together, which I think was a really good idea. What, if anything, maybe in retrospect, you know, looking back at this race, if you could, if you were Ulrich and you were at the command, what would you change about the race that would either make it better or more fun to watch or more competitive, potentially? Yeah, for me, it looks really that the turn points, they fix the route extremely. And it's not, it's more a media event. It pushes the turn points, but not the interesting of the route. So I prefer one or two turn points to have a different options in between.

In generally, I think there are two things.

One is the competition characteristic. So for the competition, you have to remove turn points and there is the organizer. They have the idea for a good event for a media event. Sure. And for. Also. To make it more sellable or more visible for the, for the fans. And for this, I think it's the opposite. You have to do more turn points, but this turn points, you have to do more attractive. It means if there is like in the cycling to the France, for example, they have daily runs and then you have a start and a goal. And maybe if, if you do an adventure race with maybe three day races, it means score 200 K and then have a stop.

And then the next day you have a restart all that leads together. It makes it more attractive for the turn points. I mean, because there is a, uh, uh, arriving for the athlete, then the athletes, they stay there for maybe one day. They have time. So all the fans, they can visit and they can have a talk for selfies and these things. And then you have a restart at the next. And then all the athletes start together and then there's a new race and new, uh, for all of them, they have a new motivation because they can stay in front again. And I think it will be also more difficult to me to, to be in front because we thought that when, when we are together, the others, they can do exactly the same and they can do flying.

Well, they, they hike. Well, uh, I think my, my strong point it's to, to find, to find a way to do it. And the, the, the route, the best route depends of the weather. When I stay alone. That's a good idea. I really liked that idea. Um, any other, any other ideas like that along those lines to, to improve it?

Hmm. There is also the question about safe safety. And, um, I feel that, that, um, the biggest problem it's the, the tiredness. So, uh, if we could have more, more sleep for sure, it's less extreme, less hard adventure race, but it makes it more safe. I think for all the teams. And, um, for example, we have this two or three days race and then it's one day rest. Yeah. And then a restart, it will help a lot also for the safety because, um, yeah, if you have a rest, you can think about something else. You can re recover your head and your body and them. Maybe. Maybe this is also important.

But on the other side, it's, it's good to have a start and who is first in, in the Mediterranean sea. Uh, yeah, for me, it's, it's both options, but on the end, I think the X ops, it's also, um, it's, it's a unique race and it's for 10 times or not for nine times. It was similar. It was very similar, but, but now maybe for the 10th edition, it's, it's good to have a change. Yeah. What, if anything? I can't imagine you underestimate anything, but, uh, you know, you've done it. You've won six times now, but, uh, looking back at this race, did you underestimate anything, anything you would have done differently?

Yeah, it was very close to the perfect one, but for sure I had some, some, um, bad luck also. Uh, for example, before Lermos, um, I was pushing too much and I, I had to, I, uh, I bombed out. So I had to walk up for another hour. So it's also the reason Maxim couldn't catch up, uh, 20 K, uh, delay. So this for sure was, was, um, over motivation or too much pushing. So this, this, um, I will, we say for, yeah, do it better. And on the other side, it was always difficult to find a good solution. Depends off the weather. So in, in, after the race.

You always, um, stay more, more smart. So now it's easy to say on which place I have to push or to wait. But in generally the strategy we have with, uh, with the team, it was perfect. And, um, I would say I tried to have the same in two years. I was going to say you, your, your team changed quite a bit this year. You had the same support you did in the X-Pyr, uh, this, this last year, but, um, is, has that been? A big thing for you to adjust to. Uh, has that been hard or was it. Pretty easy to, you know, from all the experience to train up a new team.

Because it was new. Um, we was a bit unlucky in the spring. With the weather. And with, uh, with. With the competitions we like to do. Um, there was canceling a border race. Um. My other supporter. quarter we planned to that he come he had an accident so he had to switch um three weeks before the race one person so it was not too easy it was um quite hard and we had to learn in during the race how it works best but um in generally it helped me also to stay motivated to work with them to to feel what what are the strengths of each person so it was also good to have a new experience and the new motivation for the race how much how much of the race do you put in in their hands like for example when you land or like that day you bombed out uh going to lermous are they are they totally in charge of your route and the next place you launch and they're the ones doing google earth and the medio and the weather and and everything and you're just you know you pack your glider and you go or are you really involved in those decisions as well

the the main strategy was that the team um bring all in the camperman or in the e-tron i mean the car and they bring me this as soon as possible to my landing if i like support and the other part was that they always um have a control over the race to to share uh information like new weather forecasts um new informations from the from the organization all these communication parts was very important and also when i when i uh plan the next day that i uh think with me that they give me um new route new ideas so i can choose the best for me and uh like this it works was uh uh working together but i always on the end i always take position what i like to do what was your your best day and your worst day

it always feels very good when i can cover a big distance i mean when i flew all the way to titlis because titlis for me it was the worst or the most difficult turn point i top landed and i flew down so it felt very good um maybe it was was just a good flying day but on the end i covered a difficult part and it felt us or it felt like i did very good and the worst one was um maybe when i cross at home um my my place i know very well and i was expecting a easy easy going and it was the hardest day i covered 5 400 meter uphill and on the end i was flying in the rain my glider was totally wet and we stopped at nine in a camping because i was looking for a room to dry my wing

and we stopped already at nine and my glider my gear was completely wet also the reserve i had to put out and crying and when we eat then dinner at 10 um i felt not too good because i covered almost nothing and my gear was wet and i was totally wet and i was totally wet and i was totally wet and i uh over because 5 400 meters it makes me very tired and so it's it's it's totally strange you know the the feeling about the good and the bad day um your your preparation is famous for these races and i think you i even saw somewhere that you were more fit for this one than in any previous edition which we all got to see in in the prologue uh i never felt that you in the previous prologues that i've done with you i think you were pretty casual about them but clearly this time you were you're really gunning for it and to get that second position and and fat i mean benoit and maxime are fast and and that was a breakneck pace for a prologue i mean i think we were all really fast that day but if you could if you in the last you know i know you're always preparing you always say as soon as you're done with this one you're preparing for the next but um if you could prepare differently for this specific race when you look back at the last year what would what would you change if anything it was quite good because of a lot of power training in gym during the winter and i never stopped really because i realized that it's very important for the body to have a good shape in muscle so the legs have to be very strong and i i did once in a week um gym

until the start so and during training i did a lot of ski touring also ski touring races to to have a base a good base and then in spring i start to run and this also was quite good maybe for a next edition i tried to have more competition i mean flying competition close before the start from the exams because this year i was not planning really the competitions and finally the weather was not to go so i was not planning to have a good start until the start of the good to fly cross country and at the start and not have the best feeling about my flying skills and so it's always a question of time so spending more time for the physical training or for the flying training but the next time i tried to have in the winter spring more learning training and then focus on flying and to have more playing competitions to really be ready at the race start and when you say flying competitions you're not talking like world cups and stuff you're talking like hike and fly competitions or both maybe also also world cup because in the world cup you really learn or you get the feeling to fly fast to fly uh just straight and just keep the or take the best thermals and this gives you a good average speed in the hike and fly too

one of the things i'm finding tricky and this might just be unique to me but i i kind of doubt it um you've got a couple kids and you know i have my little daughter that i had right after the last race um age is certainly a component i think i've got more than 10 years on you here but the balance i find tricky because the race requires at least my approach because i'm older and i have quite

a bit of experience with the bike so i'm not going to be able to quite

bad knees i really have to train hard physically for this race i really put a lot of effort into that because uh i i know it will pay off and i don't want to end the race because of my knee or something so um but it's also so much time and so much preparation i my next question is actually will you do it again for everybody else obviously you will so i don't need to ask that but um are you finding that you know difficult to balance with your kids you know you know obviously they know this is who you are and this is what you do but um you know it's not just the X-Alps that you do you're doing a lot of the other ones as well and like the x periods are they're all big commitments and i'm finding you know my where i am right now is like gosh i just don't know if i can put that kind of time in and also be you know a good dad um are you finding that tricky time consuming

hard or how and if and if so how are you balancing it actually i i feel very comfortable because i'm self self-employment and um flying is my life so as long i can cover my life for my family with flying i'm very proud and i i feel also still motivated to train it mean it's not a it's not a must to train it's a gift and i'm very proud of it and i'm very proud of it and i'm very proud of it and i'm very proud of it and i can share my experience during the training with other people with friends and i i set some some competitions for sure because it's also fun and it's um it's the game for for getting more media work it means um every article i can um generate with the competition it's good for my sponsors and so i i have to find the balance between family training and the competitions and um as long i i feel good that means that my body works well i like to do this and so if next year i find a good adventure and do this maybe it's xp again because the i really like and then i hope to be ready in 2021 for for the exalts again because uh

working with the young pilots um prepare them um with the exalt academy it's also a good motivation and when i feel the motivation of them they push me they they they like to do better than me maybe i can be better than now what advice would you have for you know millions of people watch the race and they watch the live tracking and you know there's lots of good pilots in the world and they get quite inspired by what they see um what main bits of advice would you give to someone who's thinking about doing the X-Alps

it's it's uh it's more than a competition um if you like to do a competition you better go to to other competitions because the X-Alps is an adventure it needs a lot of preparation um for the logistic with the team it it um it's also hard to work with the media if you do this the first time when working with all this media maybe it's um it's not going to be a good idea but i think it's a good idea to do it it's more hard than in a competition and finally it's also quite long because uh 10 days it um maybe the first two days it's fun and then it starts to be hard and on the end it's really a fight and if you like this you can do if you not really like i just say in a in a shorter competition to enjoy this is my experience but for me generally it's it's um it gives me a good motivation for the life you know if i have a X-Alps project i know it's uh starts in for example one year i can have daily motivation for my training i can optimize my equipment i can have a good time with my team and on the end it's it's just this 10 day race where i have to test where i have to the work i think and for me it's um

it's it's more from the preparation time than from the uh competition at all

what what how what how does your i haven't had this of the others but it's just something i'm feeling right now i have felt in this race and the last two as well that you know the gift and the opportunity of training for something like this and the time and the anticipation and i i love i love it the the whole process is is really just you know there's it's it's overwhelming it's consuming it's fun it's you know you get to you basically get to focus on your health for a year you know so you know what what better thing could there be and then you have this experience which is like mind blowing and and it's difficult and it's fun and it's fast fascinating and it's you have the laugh i mean i never laugh so hard as i do with my team and the X-Alps i mean we just have a really really good time

and then it's over um and both the in 2015 and 2017 and then this time it's over and you know you you have this elation and exhaustion and you know all the things that people can imagine you will have but you also for me it's it's also a really hard time there's like a you know it's it's like coming down off some really really good high um and it's i mean you're you're used to it you've now done that 60 %

of the time and then you're like oh my god i'm gonna have to do this again

and you've done all these other releases but do you experience that is that are these weeks post the X-Alps i mean for me they're the hardest weeks because there's yeah i don't know what to do with myself in a sense yeah that's funny it's for me the whole project it it looks like uh when i do the we are visualization it's like a pyramid so the the peak of the of the pyramid it's the X-Alps and everything comes together and after i am the top and the only thing i can do is to fall down so after the X-Alps race it feels like staying in a hole everything is dark and no motivation the body it's tired uh there is no power left to do something else yeah and on the beginning in 2009 and 11 it felt very very hard this first three four weeks after the race and now i'm not sure if i'm gonna be able to do it again but i'm i did a clear uh timetable what i do after the race because this helped me to stay focused so it means um the first week i do holiday with my boys then i start a little bit of training again and now i have some competitions um like the eiger tour for example and it gives me new motivation and new focus and this i really need to not stay in this hole and do nothing

yeah because as you said it's it's the preparation period close to the race and then the race it's the the most uh intense days in the year and um to feel all this uh it's it's um it's great but after it it goes on and then you have to be prepared for this Chrigel thank you very much as always i really appreciate your time your openness it was great to have those chats with you before the race and uh god man i'm so happy to be here and i'm so happy to be here and i'm so it's it's really it really is awesome to watch you work and it really is inspiring so congratulations on your sixth win of the X-Alps i know there are more in your future and uh i hope to see you again soon yeah thank you very much for you for call and for your interest and yeah see you soon

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