Hi there, everybody. Welcome to episode 99 of the Cloudbase Mayhem. We are getting very close to that magic hundredth episode. I am working very hard on the book, this kind of Tools of Titans. We don't have a title yet, but working with Hugh and Ed at the magazine, at Cross Country Magazine, and this is going to be fantastic. It's been really fun going through the old shows and kind of grabbing all the great nuggets from all the fantastic pilots and people we've had on the show over the last few years. So stay tuned for more information on that. This show is the second installment of the interviews I did right after the race with a bunch of the Red Bull X-Alps athletes. In this one, we're going to talk to Tom DeDorladeau, Cody Mittanck, Patrick Poncanal, Eduardo Garza, and Chrigel. So we get a really good taste of what things were like at the very front of the race with Chrigel, of course, winning his sixth and all the way to the back, fighting not to get eliminated with Cody.
Uh, and there's some great stories here of gust fronts and, yeah, all kinds of fun stuff. I think you're gonna really enjoy it. And we also get to hear some really cool thoughts from Chrigel on how the race could be more competitive, maybe a big shake-up for the 10th edition, which would be 2021, and also just how having all the turn points this time—adding all those turn points while it was a, you know, took us through some fantastic areas of the Alps and made it quite, quite a bit less interesting, both for us as athletes and also for the fans to watch and made it so we couldn't be very creative with our routes and made it really hard to catch up. So some interesting thoughts there. Before we get to the show, I guess we've got some kind of somber housekeeping. I don't know if you'd call it housekeeping, but you know, the bell curve of accidents always goes way, way up in the summer.
And unfortunately, This summer has been no different. There have been a ton of fatal accidents around the world, and several back home in the states, and some of them are just like they always are, uh, people making, uh, silly mistakes, which is just, uh, you know, a bummer. It's, you know, you've just got to make sure you check your head, you know, things like forgetting to strap in. Uh, we had a guy who jumped out of a paraglider and had forgotten to and have his base rig on, you know, it's just stuff that we're human, we make mistakes, and it happens, and it causes a lot of pain. And so we've just got to make sure that we're checking our systems and checking our head, like Jeff Shapiro said way back in number three, "This one flight that you're about to take is the most important flight of your life." Uh, the accident I want to actually talk about, though, is a mutual friend of actually Jeff and I's and many, many other people that just happened in the Sierras, and you know, we don't know all the details that he was flying with a couple other people that day, but basically went into a pretty windy lee area, very, very low, where he didn't have any escape.
He went into kind of a canyon where he really needed to climb and obviously did not get the climb. What we assume is he had two reserves. One was deployed when they found him, and so we assume that he had to deploy pretty low. And he hit his SOS. Obviously, probably went in real hard, hit his SOS, and uh, but by the time search and rescue got in there, he was no longer with us. And but looking at his track logs, we were able to kind of figure out that he had made a mistake that I'm seeing over and over and over again. Uh, one is that, you know, hungry, competitive, younger, or lower-hour pilots are kind of trying to chase the big numbers. You, you know, we talked in the last show with Alex Roby about all the benefits of X contest and there are a ton.
But one of the things it does is, you know, it turns what we do a lot more into numbers and you start trying to go for scores and go for big distance. And there are huge risks involved with that, of course. And I think a lot of people, you know, Jeff and I talked about this one accident in detail in the last few days. And you know what? He's seeing is, is a lot of lower outer hour pilots that have a shitload of talent, you know? Men and women that have a ton of talent that are confusing, uh, luck with skill. You know, so it's my, my analogy is like backcountry skiing. You know, when you go out backcountry skiing and you've got a really kind of sketchy avalanche hazard, you know, slab problem or something, and you, you don't really ski, you ski something probably a little bit more dicey than you should on a particular day, and it doesn't go, and you get back down to the car and you think you've made really good decision making in the backcountry, and really you were one percent safe and 99 super dangerous.
It was right on the edge of going, and you know, you could have put a bunch of people in an avalanche and you got out, and you don't really get the feedback from that. And we've got the same thing in flying, you know? If you, if you take a deep line and it works out, then you take another deep line and it works out, and you keep doing it, you, you think you're getting better when really you're just getting lucky, um, you know? So if you're, you know, a pilot that's at 500 hours, you need to be realistic and understand that you're still a total puppy. If you're at a thousand hours, you know, you might, you're just starting to figure it out, and to emulate pilots who have thousands of hours, you know, the Kriegels and the Russ Ogdens and people have done so much, much SIV and so many hours and, you know, chase them and, and, and go into these areas where there's, there isn't any margin, you're asking for trouble.
You know, you haven't built up the foundation. You don't have the skills to take a collapse low. And, but mostly it's just totally unnecessary. This is what makes me really sad about this. And I see a lot of pilots doing this is that they, you know, Because it's the most logical and kind of easy place to be is right, right on the terrain. You know, there's going to be thermals there. It's also way messier there, and you don't have any margin. But mostly, you don't need to be there. You know, you can be way out front, use a lot more bar, fly a lot faster, uh, and straighter. But you're also, if something goes wrong, you've got a lot more margin. So, you know, usually out front, it's not always the best line, but most of the time out front, it's, it's a place where, uh, thermals have gotten a lot more time to kind of gel and get nice and get a lot smoother, and they're not so sharp.
You know, when you're right on the terrain, it's like flying in the flatlands, right off the deck in a dust devil. You know, that hasn't, the thermal hasn't had time to really gel and get nice. None of us flying, like, flying in air like that. So, um, yeah, this was really a bummer because, uh, this pilot really didn't need to be where he was. Now, he was in the Sierras, and you know, you're getting pretty tall all out in the Sierras, so hypoxia could have been a factor. A lot of things could have been a factor, but you know, like Jeff said, uh, and like you've heard Nick Greece say on the show, "Fly the day and not your desire." And like Jeff said, you know, no line is worth not coming home from. You know, that's not a sustainable way to fly where you're going into a place and you're, you're thinking, thinking about using your parachute as the only way out rather than a last resort.
So just a warning to everybody to fly at your skill level. The experience and the knowledge and the hours will come. You can't rush it. You don't need to be competitive when you're learning. And the learning in this sport takes a lifetime. time. And I go back to Alex Roby again. We heard about how he's doing these monster flights by flying on perfect days. He's taking very, very little risk. He's flying days that aren't going to OD, that don't have a lot of wind. They're perfect days. And like Santa Croce said in his podcast, the good days will come. There's no reason to go out and push on the hard days.
And so, it's just, just a warning, uh, you know, I see a lot of pilots jumping up to a much more spanny, um, more demanding wing way too early and pushing it way too early when they haven't built up the foundation. Be honest with yourself. Emulate the pilots who don't have accidents, who, uh, come home every day and are having the most fun. That's what this podcast is all about. And I also want to, of own up to something that Jeff pointed out, was that often on this show, myself included, and some of the pilots that I've had on the show, kind of glorify that deep line, but know that that comes from thousands and thousands of hours of practice and training.
And, you know, a lot of the people I have on the show, like the show today, are ex-alps pilots. These are some of the best pilots in the, the world, so they know the risk. They understand, uh, the hazards. They know how to get out of bad places. They've got the experience, and that experience is often gained from making mistakes. And we've all gotten lucky that, you know, we've had, we haven't had a lot of consequences. They've been inconsequential mistakes where we go, "Wow, that was really close." But remember, this one flight is, is the most important flight you're going to take. So keep it safe out there, everybody. I know we hammer safety a lot on this show, but like I said, there's been a lot of accidents and it's been rough on families and friends and it's been rough on the community.
So let's stay safe. Let's get into this show. Tom de Dorlodot, Cody, Patrick, Eduardo, Chrigel, some fantastic stuff here. We're going to start it off with Tom, who this was his seventh X-Alps, But his first time to make it into Monaco, he was the last one in. He clearly really, really upped his game. He and I were racing, uh, pretty close to one another for most of the race until I kind of faltered day eight, but he had a great race and brought in a professional trainer and just totally changed his approach this year, changed his team. So we're going to hear about how all that went. Here's some great stories from Cody, who was having an epic battle at the back, uh, but made it a long ways and had a great race. Uh, Patrick van von Kennel, who of course we, we knew he was going to do well.
We had a great talk with him on the podcast before, before the race, uh, so we get to hear about some of the battles that he went through. Eduardo Garza, who had a terrific race, another rookie in this lineup, uh, he was kind of right in the middle of the pack. He was chasing hard, he was really tenacious, had a fantastic time as well. And so you'll hear kind of the joy that he had in this race. And then the always amazing Chrigel enjoy tom.
Welcome to the show. I, uh, it's, it's so awesome to talk to you. I, I'm sorry I missed you guys in Monaco. I just, I didn't want to deal with that heat after dealing with so much heat. I wanted to stay in the mountains. So I imagine, I, I watched the some of the party online. But, uh, first off, dude, congratulations. Seventh time, uh, uh, and, and, and you, you got to Monaco and you did it in style, man. This was a hard race. I found, I found the pace was just unbelievable. And, uh, I was quite close to you a couple of times, but then I had a pretty bad day, day eight and really lost you as you guys made it into Chamonix that day, but, uh, you just did phenomenally good race. So my, my first question for you is, uh, you know, obviously you're very practiced at this.
You've been doing this a long, long time, but something in your game was different this year, and I'd love to hear what it was because you were, you were really on form.
Yeah, I think, well, thanks very much for, I mean, it was, it was, I'm super happy to be on the show again and, uh, and to share a little bit of my experience with, with everyone. Um, yeah, this of course, something changed, I think. Uh, you know, I've done the race six times before and, uh, and I knew I was coming back. Um, you know, when I actually two years ago, I thought that I'm never gonna do it again, that's it. Uh, I leave it here and then, um, this year we had a baby and I thought this is the perfect timing to just stay home a little bit, focus on training and spend some months in the alts and, you know, for the last, uh, 10 years, a little bit like you, you know, I've been traveling everywhere around the world and the exalt was one of my adventure but was I never totally focused on it like I should have.
Um, and so every time I was a little bit short, you know, a little bit short, not far from Monaco, not far from a good position, but never quite made it and, um, and this time I really changed everything. I trained professionally with a professional trainer. Um, I really worked on the gear, I spent a lot of time in the alts and I checking the route, checking the turn points. Then I trained with pogu shubauer, um, hiking and flying quite a lot. Um, and, and yeah, I think it all came together. You know, this time it kind of worked and, as you know, also you kind of need a little bit of luck. Um, you need to be at the right place, the right time and, and take the opportunities and, uh, because I've had other race where I think I was strong and ready but, uh, one day and one mistake can make a whole difference.
So, um, this time I was in the right place at the right moment with the right people, I think and, uh, flying in teams at the beginning and finding my way. Um, and then yeah, it worked out. I actually even was hoping to get a better result because I was playing fifth, six, seven, eighth, you know, and in there but then at, at the end, what was really important for me was to get to Monaco. So the last two days, I was flying a little bit more conservative, trying to get everything out of the flights and really get to Monaco instead of really fighting for a position because my dream was really to make it to Monaco. Well,
congratulations. And yeah, you know, those last days were so stable. I had plenty of time to walk and watch tracking and stuff. And, and, uh, you know, my, my mistake day eight really, really cost me cause I got stuck in the, on the Iger side and, and I couldn't chase you guys into, into Chamonix and it was pretty clear that, that, that Monica was no longer in the cards. So I had some time to watch, and man, there was a heck of a battle going on. I mean, really, actually, at the end it was even for third and fourth, you know, because Patrick really reeled in benoit and and and paul there that that whatever day 10 and but you guys were having a heck of a battle around monte viso cheval blanc it was awesome to watch yeah
It was super interesting because you, you could see it. I mean, every, every two years the level goes up a little bit, you know? And people come and they are better prepared, and everyone is fast. And so I would say that, I mean, Kligel somehow, and I said it already, is from another league. Yeah, he's somewhere else. He's above, you know. But then from there, you know, like if you look at Paul Benoit and all the other guys, it was everyone, we were always fighting together. One would go in front and then another one. And then depending on if you had a good day or if you catch that last thermal of the day, you would get in front. But um, it was so intense. And and um, after Chamonix, the day um, you didn't make it across uh near and you stayed near Diego. We had a really hard time fighting with stability, and then we got to to um, to Chamonix with Gaspar, and I was lucky to be flying with Gaspar at that point because he knows all the area super, you know, he knows exactly what to do.
So um, and the next day I could catch up with uh, with Patrick, and so we were there um, in front of the whole crew and fighting kind of for fifth position, you know, and really thinking, okay, there's something now, it's it's happening, you know, three days before the end, it's kind of really good place to be. But but then this heat uh, killed us, you know, and arriving in Saint-Hilaire, I walked 40k straight in 37 degrees. I was I was, you know, destroyed. And and then the next day I started making mistakes, and I really, really think at some stage I was pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing so much the whole race. I never really took the time to sit back and say, "Hey, now I need a bit of rest so I can fly better tomorrow," or I can be smarter. Um, you know, I I think at some stage I should have, you know, slow down, slow down a little bit, and I didn't.
And and that's where I hit the wall. At some stage I was just too tired, and and I started making mistakes during the flight. When I arrived in Montevideo, I was not sure that I did the cylinder. So I started to hesitate, went back. You know, these kind of stupid mistakes you only do because you're tired. But it's interesting to see that after 1,200 kilometers, to see that we all get there more or less at the same time. You know, it's quite crazy. Six, seven pilots at the same time. Um, and I was, I told Gaspar, I remember I said to Gaspar, "You'll see, Gavin will be with us up there tomorrow." So because we were already thinking, "Okay, uh, the top 10 is almost secured," but then you realize like, some of the guys in the back there, they're incredible pilots.
They've done Monaco before and, uh, so anything can happen in this race, as you can see. It's like, yeah, I just... But I think this time people were flying so fast also. The pace
was just – I just was blown away. Like it had – in 2015, I made mistakes that like cost me almost a whole day and you could keep – you could still be in the race. In this race, you're done. You're just over. It was incredible just how fast – even in those middle days where there was no thermals. It was just rain and thunderstorms, and you know, but everybody kept moving. You know, it was just really, still, very fast. Everybody's out the door at five and done at 10:30, and and it was really, really phenomenal. I, I'm very impressed with what, what's happening with the level, yeah.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens in, in two years or so, and see, see how—I mean, it all depends, depends on the weather. And I think this year was so intense, the first three, four days, uh, with good flying weather and big, big distance flown. And but, um, for me, what really also changed this year is my, my attitude. You know, like before, I used to—I remember in the race before, if I made a big mistake, I kind of couldn't go over it, you know? Like, it was like a negative and, "Oh shit, I made a mistake and this is not going to work." And this time, even in big stability when I landed down and thinking, "Okay, now I have to go back up and everyone is passing flying above me," I was—I don't know how—but really positive all the time.
Like, I could really stay smiling and laughing and having fun and not take it too seriously. And I think that was a game changer, to really stay positive and have an attitude of, "Just okay, no, no big deal, let's keep going, let's stay positive." Was that a
conscious decision before the race started, or is that something that just, you know, age and having a baby and just maybe you're just different? Yeah,
It's probably a little bit of both, you know? In one side, I knew this is something I had to work on, um, and also this year I changed my team, so I—I took a different team that I used to be to to have a different vibe, you know, and to start from scratch. Um, I mean, the team that I had was always great and I was always—was happy to share those moments with my friends and stuff, but did I really build a team thinking, okay, what do I need? Who do I need? What kind of profiles? Who's going to work with me, you know? And and who is going to be wise enough to understand how I work? And I really worked on the team, um, and then and then I knew I had to work on myself, you know? I knew I had to change my attitude and also, uh, it—it goes, I was having this discussion with Paul, uh, Paul before the race and he said—said, uh, it was his his, uh, way of, um, of thinking, but he said, um, now I have to think that it's possible to win.
I have to come for the win, because if I don't come for the win, then I—then there's no need to come. I mean, it's and I—and I won't give my best if I'm happy with the second or third place, you know? Yeah, so and then I—it kind of changed something in me also. I thought, this is true, um, I have to come for Monaco, you know? And I have to come for to give my best and I—and I'm not just coming to participate, and I'm not going to be satisfied if I just – and so I really – it's kind of changed my mindset. And physically, I think I was so – I was much better prepared than before, so I didn't suffer so much. I was enjoying much more.
I like that you've got a professional trainer. I've had that for all three. And Ben, you know Ben, and he's my supporter in the race as well. But it's just – and it makes all the difference because that's one thing you can shelve. There's one thing you don't have to think about anymore, you know? You know you're going to be ready, you just got to do the work. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, what was your best day and what was your worst day?
Um, that's a good question. I think, I think my, my best day was the last day because, you know, I was, I woke up and it was, I was still 155 k's from Monaco and really it wasn't clear that I was going to make it. You know, I, I wasn't sure. They were saying that the day was going to, to be amazing, but um, it was not clear. And so I, I climbed to the top um for a glide down to reach Simon and then climbed again and was on takeoff with Simon. And actually, the day wasn't that good. We had strong uh west wind, northwest winds and uh, and it was destroying the thermals. The first thermal I got was amazing. I thought, this is going to be easy. It was, I went up to 3800 meters and thought, this is it, we're getting to Monaco.
And then after that, nothing. 2002, 2003, fighting against the wind and it was really a struggle to get to Monaco. So when I landed 40k away from Monaco, I opened my cell phone, like I checked my GPS and I said, "Okay, this is going to be a long walk, but I'm going to make it." I was so happy about it. I'm really super stoked. But um, so I think that maybe it was, was the best, the best day because I would have been, I have to be honest with you, I would have been very frustrated if I didn't make it to Monaco this time because I, I never did it, you know? And so for me, it was really, it was important. It got personal. I had to finish this. Um, so it was really, really good day. But all together, also the day of Conplats, um, when I landed on top of Conplats, I got lucky.
I, I was one of the first to land on top and so I could catch up with the guys who landed it a little bit lower and had to climb a hike up to, to the top to sign. I really landed one meter from the sign board, signed and took off again. And so I was flying with Benoit, with Paul from three to six seven, we were all there, and like four or five pilots, and they were flying fast, and it was really good to be flying with the group because, you know, a group of five talented pilots, we went really fast. And I remember looking back and seeing that the conditions were, were getting worse and worse and worse, and thinking, okay, for us it was good, you know, we were kind of closing the doors behind the door behind us, you know? So, uh, I remember thinking, this is not going to be easy for those who follow, and and it was just a matter of maybe an hour of difference, you know, but we could escape in front, and that was a really good day.
But then I made that mistake, and then I made me land, and then, uh, the next day I could catch up, but But yeah, I mean, it's, when you look at the race, um, uh, 10 days later, you see how many mistakes you made and what could have been better and stuff. But at the end of the day, you know, we all did our best and, uh, and, and you play with what you have.
Tom, you've done it seven times now you made Monaco. Um, I'm sure you've got some really good advice for, for, you know, someone thinking about doing the X ops that's never done it again. What would be like the one precious piece of advice you would give them? You know, if they're thinking about doing it, what would you, what would you pass on to them?
I think, you know, um, well, I think the most important is to just spend as much time as possible in mountains. And I, and I do think that it's really a mental game, this whole thing, you know, and that's why people like, like you and people who do a lot of adventures and they go out and they spend time in difficult conditions and stuff they do, they can cope with it. You with the mental, uh, you know, game and stuff, you know, if some people would say, "Oh, just go spend some time and do some comps and fly long distance," I don't think this is the best advice. I think really what is the best is to take your backpack to go with your glider and get lost in the mountains and spend days hiking, flying, make some, you know, volume and in difficult conditions and sleep outside and, you know, get hurt a little bit.
But I, I really do think that when you, when it comes to the race, then you feel confident on there. Um, the, the physical challenge is still there, but mentally you can cope with it, I think that. And I think what you, what you need is experience at the end. So, experience, you only get it by practicing. You have to spend a lot of time out there. You
Know who I think of when you say that is Nick Neynens. You know, I think that's kind of all he does; he travels the world and he and he does it out of a shoelace and he and he just bivvies everywhere where he goes. You know, he's been in so many mountain ranges and, uh, and you know, even in this race, he had a really bad start and he was way off the back and I kept telling my team, "Just don't count him out, he'll catch up." He'll, he always does. You know, he'll just keep moving and he'll do it with a smile and like nothing really phases him. You know, he's always just, yeah, true, just chomping along. And yeah, no, that, that's really good advice. I like that. Um, what's the most critical or vital support you receive from your, your team?
This could be a one-case scenario or just overall, like, "Oh my god, I couldn't do it because of this."
Um, yeah, well, I think, you know, it was interesting when we crossed, for example, the to the Rhone. We had to go above glacier, um, and I think for me, I mean, it's like you, I spend a lot of time in the high mountains in Pakistan and stuff, so I feel, feel very confident. But I was really happy to have someone, um, with me, you know, being on the rope and just, just didn't have to think about it, you know. And I have, I had two really strong guys in my team that were sometimes hiking in front of me, helping me, carrying water and extra, extra stuff, food or a little bit of electronics and stuff, and that really helped to have those, those guys really positive mindsets, motivated, smiling, the good joke, you know, the good moments, um, and I, and I think really that was the game changer this time.
It was the attitude of the team. More than really something that they did, but the whole positive attitude. And I speak about the moment when we crossed to the Rome. We had to go above the Petersgrad Glacier. It's 3,200 meters. We went to the hut. We had really bad weather. But we did everything like kind of having fun, enjoying, laughing about it, you know, not taking it too seriously. And I think the attitude really makes a difference, and uh, they could really cultivate this positive altitude the whole way. I think that's—that's the best. That's really where they were great at, yeah.
Tom, the final question is just, uh, what fan experience or locals experience along the way? You know, because people come out and do the most wonderful things for us. What was the one that really stood out, um...
That's a good, uh, good question. Um, you know, not this time, but I remember from the last editions, and I think this is a good story. Um, there's a woman that's, um, in two back in 2009, I think. Uh, she was—I met her in front of her door, uh, on the way from Marty to Mont Blanc to Chamonix, and uh, the path goes just in front of her door, and she—she came out. Now, what? What do you do there and here and blah, blah, blah. And she offered me some iced tea, like really homemade, you know, lemon and ginger and really good. And then two years later, in 2011, I came again and there she was waiting with the following a live tracking and waiting at the same spots, you know, and hey, here I am again.
And this year, she sent me a message saying, hey, if you land in Martigny, your iced tea will be waiting for you. And I flew above it. So I send the message, not this time, but thank you, thank you very much anyway. You know, and I think it's, uh, it's cool. You see that more and more people are following the race and, uh, and trying to help, and this is really, it's really cool. And also, I saw a lot of solidarity between the teams, and I really appreciate that we can keep a very, uh, good spirit and, uh, you know, fair play and, and people helping each other, you know, even if it's not your, your team. So, uh, Simon's team's been, been helping us, uh, Gaspar Pichot, every time I, I would meet them, they would propose some water or something to drink, something to eat, so we could really cultivate between the team, the team's a really cool atmosphere, and I think this is important also for the spirit of the race, so really appreciate that.
Couldn't agree more, Tom. Uh, always such a pleasure, man. And I, I wish you and your family well. I know you've got some great adventures planned on the boat. I hope to see you, you out in Salmiguel here in August at the festival. A little plug for them, that's going to be awesome. And, uh, nice. Congratulations, man, really, from the bottom of my heart. It was just awesome to watch, and I was so happy for you. And I, when I was at Cole de Lazard and saw you walk in, I was just thrilled for you, man. So, congratulations again, and on, on just an epic race. You really kept it together the whole time. That was, that was, that was really fun to watch. And, uh, you're, you were in a troupe of incredible pilots there, and I was happy to see you guys make it.
So, yeah, job well done.
Thank you, man. Thank you. I appreciate it. And I hope I can come to the States soon and get some flying down with you there.
Yeah, for sure. And some ski touring in the winter. Don't miss the winter. It's special. You would love it. You would love it.
Cody Mittanck, Team USA3. He and I spent quite a bit of time together, as we did with Willie, who we'll hear from later. and the run up to this race, did some training together, uh, about the week before the pre-race week, uh, had some really interesting, uh, stories and epics and some tough early days, uh, and, but held it together. Uh, their team had a lot of fun and I think you're going to enjoy this talk. Cody, thanks for so much for coming on the, uh, mayhem, man. It's, uh, it's good to hear your voice. I know you're out at us nationals already, uh, moving on to new things. Um, we We talked a little bit before we started recording about how you're feeling. It sounds like you're feeling pretty recovered after the long slog through the Alps. But congratulations on your first ex-Alps.
I know it was a big battle there at the back for a while. You had some pretty hard days, especially the one that looked like leaving Kronplatz. But it's still an epic adventure. Yeah, man, congratulations.
Yeah, thanks. Thanks, man. You had a lot of hard days. I don't even know where to start with all those.
Yeah. Lots of, lots of stories there, lots of mistakes, um, but a lot of really good flights too. So yeah, it was an adventure, definitely an experience that I wouldn't trade and I'm glad I did it in the end. So this was the sketchy, maybe you're going to ask what the sketchiest part was. This is the sketchiest part of the whole race for us. I think we, we waited till one thunderstorm passed. Um, and, uh, you know, our plan now is to, is to still try to just either start hiking, um, up the Brenner towards Innsbruck, um, or try to fly. And so, um, you know, we, we hiked up to a, to a launch and we waited for one thunderstorm to pass and they seem to be sort of tracking, uh, more to our, to our Northeast and, and not coming up the Brenner where we were at.
And so we waited, we saw two of them do that same thing on that pattern. And we thought, Okay, we're probably safe. And um, so we had, we got the sun popped for a little bit and we, we launched. We had some thermals, um, going off on this ridge we were on, flew to the end of the ridge, so we're flying into the Brenner now and, uh, took a light thermal and we're sitting in this thermal and I'm watching this, this next, uh, thunderstorm moving towards us, just slowly tracking towards us, and it's coming right up the Brenner Pass at this point, um, and so, you know, I'm trying to get as much high as I can just to get over and into the pass and find a place to land. Um, so we, we left that thermal, started going into the Brenner, um, got fairly low and then picked up, um, this really, really broken lift.
Initially, I'm thinking it's a thermal and I'm like, "Yeah, maybe I can actually get up a little bit further and, and maybe make light to the, uh, gust from that airspace, save myself." Yeah, saved myself a little bit of hiking. Um, and, and as I started taking this up, I was actually, um, so Brian, my supporter, was just behind me and he came in below me at that point and landed. Um, and, uh, and I, I, you know, tried to take the, this thermal up, up too high. I was really getting higher than I should have at that point, realizing then that it was, yeah, it was, it was a gust front. It was, was in a gust front. It was actually, this thunderstorm was sucking, so it was actually pulling, um, from, from Innsbruck, like the direction of Innsbruck, it was pulling all of this air up the Brenner Pass and, um, within, within a matter of a minute or so, now I'm in winds that are gusting to, uh, to 30, 35 miles an hour and I'm in this really tight spot.
There's, there's power lines everywhere and, you know, there's, there's that gorge and the Brenner Pass, um, and yeah, it had a backwards landing, um, pretty sketchy, pretty sketchy. When I finally got on the ground, turned around and this, this thunderstorm was just, it was massive and, and, uh, yeah, really strong winds and within maybe 10 minutes or so, um, that's, that had stopped and the winds switched direction and, and then ramped up to just, you know, the same speed that was the customer that was now coming through.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was pretty gnarly. That was definitely the sketchiest part.
You put up this funny video right around then on Facebook. I didn't get to see it. Ben and Revis told me about it, but you were like kind of tired. Tired, obviously. You were like, "Man, I feel like I'm in this terrible feedback loop where, you know, I make the same mistake over and over again because I get rushed and I try to, you know, I try to make moves and then I screw it up because I'm rushing, and then I rush harder because I screw it up." It sounded like I know...
Everybody's, yeah, everybody. I've been talking to people here and they're all just like, they're like, "I watched the video and I just felt so bad for you." Yeah, I went back through and watch those again. And I'm like, I, I, I definitely was coming off maybe a little more depressed or, uh, I don't know, fatigue than I really was, but I, I certainly was feeling that I was feeling like I was in this positive feedback group where I was making these bad decisions and then that would put me on the ground. And then I would just, you know, I would be even more fatigued and then make another bad decision and just couldn't seem to get out of that. Yeah.
The guys, guys that did really well too, they, they talked about, uh, you know, how much, how much this race is a thinking thing. I mean, it's that's the number one thing. I mean, do you, everybody sees on live tracking that it's the, you know, it's the physical and it's the strategy and it's the, you know, it's the instruments. I mean, there's all the things that go into it, but and the number one is like, you just gotta think, you know, you really, and it's hard to think when you're tired, you know, it's that, that, that really is where it is.
Your patience. That's, that's what I've found is that because I had fallen behind, I was so far behind. And like you said, when we were, before we started recording, it's like, if you, if you fall behind, um, it's almost impossible to like, to, to catch up, you know, you land midday and you lose a hundred K on everybody. It's you, you start thinking about it and you're like, there's just really no way I can catch up unless they make a huge mistake as well, which they're not likely to do. Right. So I have to now get really creative And I got to take a new line or I've got to really fly fast. You know, I've got to make up the time in the air. And, and then, so that I was trying to do that. I was trying to fly fast, um, trying to make up that, that hundred, 150 K a, and, um, I, you know, without the patience that I needed, uh, with, you know, like running low, being fatigued, whatever, I was just, yeah, I couldn't, couldn't pull it off.
So, and then I just landed again and again. And, uh, and then we found ourselves in that situation. It was like, wow, we're going to get eliminated. If we, if, if I don't pull off a big flight here, we're, we're in the elimination zone. Um, you know, in, in four days, we're going to get eliminated. It wasn't right then. We were never right on the chopping block, but we were thinking in terms of, you know, finishing the race. That was the, that was the primary goal was to do the full 12 days.
Knowing now what you know, if you could rewind the clock and change anything about your preparation, what would it be?
Yeah, I was really surprised that physically I was fine. I was totally fine. The doc was coming around and checking people out. He checked out my feet and he's like, wow, your feet are perfect. It doesn't even look like you've been hiking on them. Um, um, and that was, I owed that to a lot of, uh, the advice that you gave me to bring a, um, another, uh, shoe that was a size bigger. And I, when you told me that I was like, yeah, there's, I just can't even imagine my feet swelling an entire size. And I almost didn't do it. Um, but I was like, yeah, I'll bring, I'll bring one pair. That's, that's one full size bigger. And that was key. I ended up actually using that, that bigger size. Um, anytime I was doing the long pavement hikes, cause that's when my feet would swell.
And, um, I ended up being just fine. So I, I had, I, during training, I realized that the toe socks were the best option to prevent blisters. And then also this, uh, this running, um, loop that you, um, put on your feet. So that kind of helped with friction and, and, um, yeah, the combination of those, those things. Um, I had, I had no blisters at all and no problems at all with my feet. Um, and the physical side too, man, I just, I surprised myself cause I thought that was going to be, I thought flying, I was going to be able to, you know, hold my own. And, and, uh, but I was really worried about the physical side cause I had never done anything of that magnitude, you know, um, every day pushing it that hard. I mean, there was, there was that, that day that we, um, um, hike Titlis, that was a, um, a 15,000 foot vert day.
Um, and then, and, and we, I, we did, so basically I did the, I did about the same stats as, as Chrigel did, except for I only made it to Chamonix. So I basically was, I was going way off course and I was turning a lot of circles.
What about other aspects of the race that – I mean nutrition is huge, but what about like when you say like you started to hit your stride, could you have hit that earlier if you had known X? You know, like what, what was the, what was the thing that was like, uh, you know, whether team or mapping or instruments or, you know, what, what was something that was like, man, I wish I had done more preparation for that.
I think if I, I think it was, um, it was a combination of a lot of things, but it was mainly that I, I just, if I had had a month or two flying in that area, um, cause I, that was the first time I'd ever really seen any of those, any of those lines from the air. And so I think if I had at least had a few flights, I would have started to feel more comfortable, um, flying, flying those lines. Um, yeah, cause like I said, right off the bat, our, our, our mistake that set us, set us back was just not, not knowing what launch to be at. Um, I think if, if we had been, if we had known that area around the grind a little bit better and knew that that, that the launch, um, you know, actually to the North was the one to be at that morning, um, then that could have changed, completely changed the race for us.
It
was – this one was interesting for me because the – you know, in 2015, you know, the – we made a ton of mistakes, you know, just like you did early on and, you know, came out of the – we had a great start but then some really bad days went way back. And, but because we had these long distances between turn points, I had, I had a really magic day, day eight that just pole vaulted me from, I don't know, 18th to seventh. And, and, you know, we got to Monaco and, and I think that skewed my reality of, of what it is. I was like, you know, convinced that, wow, I mean, I, I got, I got eighth in my first X-Alps, you know, it went really well. And I thought, oh God, if I, if I really train and, and fly a lot in the next few years, like I could really be competitive here.
And what I underestimated, I guess my answer to that first question underestimated was just how good everybody's getting. There were a number of times in this race even where lack of local knowledge really hosed me. If I had just known how A, B, and Z works coming into this valley system like the guys that are ahead of me do, then I wouldn't be on the ground. Exactly. It's
amazing how much that makes the difference. And that's what I was talking about that day that I had flown. In the evening, I launched and I was flying just past Murin. We'd been in that area. That was the only area we really actually did some recon on because we flew into Geneva and then drove through there and got a couple of little flights in that area. And so I knew I knew that Neeson was the place to be for the next morning. And so I knew I had to get there. So I, you know, I could see I needed the side hill here and then we could hike up and then get a morning sledder down and then hike and be, you know, ready for, you know, be at the top of Neeson by 930, 1030 and and be ready for the day.
And if I had known that that's those sort of things and all the other areas, um, it would have really helped us. Yeah. Yeah. But that, and that was, so those were the big mistakes that I made is just, we didn't know where to be. We didn't know where, um, where to actually be for a good, um, you know, to, for a good start for that day. Um, and yeah, that's, that just, that just takes, you know, flying that area and knowing that area, uh, Um, but it's, yeah, like you said, living there would definitely help. But I think even just training there for a season or two, um, would be really useful as well. Um, and I, I mean, going into this too, I didn't, I was, I had no, no dreams of, of beating Chrigel.
That was not even, I didn't even entertain that idea. We, I, I, I, all I was hoping for, because I honestly, I didn't know that I could even survive it physically. I was just hoping to, um, to be middle of the pack. That was, that would have been a really good scenario for me. And I was hoping to, um, to just, just survive the full 12 days and to, um, to get past Mount Blanc. Um, turns out that, you know, I did survive the full 12 days and we got to Mount Blanc. Um, it just happened that, um, you know, actually everybody was so freaking good And so fast that we, we did that, but we were still at the very back.
Yeah. There's, there's no redeeming needed, man. You just competed in, in the hardest thing there is in my opinion. I mean, I know there's a lot of hard races out there, but, uh, you did great, man. You crushed and, uh, you did have some Epic days at the end. I was watching closely and cheering you guys on. So, uh, but Cody, thank you, man. I appreciate it. And, uh, and I wish you well there at U S nationals. I hope you guys get some good days ahead and, uh, can't wait to fly with you again and just get back to what we do, which is, uh, flying in the Rockies and trying to go big. So, um, but appreciate it, man. And, and again, congratulations.
Okay. And next up we have Patrick Von Cannell. Uh, his mentors are Chrigel and Chrigel's brother, Michael. I was, I've always said Michael, but I think it's Michael. And, uh, he's a test pilot for advanced. You've heard him on the show. He's big, he's strong. He's an amazing pilot. He and I flew pretty much all day together, day two, and then, uh, launched together in Ashaw and made some good distance, uh, that evening. He's a terrific athlete. He did. He had an amazing race. I wasn't able to reel him in there at the end, but he came in, he came in eighth place, I believe. And, uh, just an awesome first effort. It's going to be really exciting to watch him in the future. So enjoy this talk with Patrick.
Yeah. The fan thing is neat. That's really cool. people come out and give you food and fruit and water and yeah
Exactly. Maybe one situation was very special, and with the weather in the beginning was really nice, and then there was three days in Switzerland where the weather was quite bad. It was flyable, but but not thermals, and and but then we saw—or I think for everybody was the same—we saw that a good window is coming, nice weather is coming after these three days. So I was really looking forward, um, to to the nice weather, and then finally we had this nice weather, but it was so stable, no thermals, and we left Switzerland land, and it was really, really stable, and we couldn't
manage the distance, so this was really hard for me, for the mind to to push forward, because it was nice weather and it just looks, it was looking very good. And then I was thinking all the time, "Ah, maybe the the others in in front front or in the back of me can fly and I can fly." So this was very hard for, yeah, stressful for, for my mind. And this one, I didn't expect it, uh, so much that, that, uh, it's so stressful.
Yeah. I, I really struggled with those last three days with the stability. I, it was, It was like incomprehensible, almost. I'd never seen weather that stable, actually, and so hot. And I, I think the same thing. I, you know, I those three days in the middle that were stormy and lots of rain, and you know, but in retrospect, they were for me, at least, a lot more fun because you could hike and fly and like piece it together and still make distance, and at least it was cool, so so it was nice for walking. And then in that heat, it was just, you, you would hike, you know, 2,500 meters and fly and not hear a single blip on your Vario. Crazy.
It's just unbelievable. So yeah, that was, I agree. That was, that was a really tough time. And I
think it's like a special because you were thinking, oh, when we managed these three days, so it's, it's looks better. but then actually, it was better, uh, than before, I think. This point was very hard to to for for our head, I think. Yeah, yeah.
I agree. Um, what was your biggest mistake of the race? Yeah,
I think the biggest mistake was in the end, maybe 80 or 90k before the goal. I was trying to catch Benoit and Kuschelbauer to to fly straight, or it was—it was one thing to to to catch Benoit and Kuschelbauer, but it was also for me the safer way, and I flew out straight this valley and from Saint-Hilaire from a little bit after the last turn point and the
whole group flew more in the south so from there they I managed to fly closer to Pile and I flew out this valley and in the end, in the beginning was very good, it works well and then I was thinking, oh yeah, it's good. And then finally when I got to the end of this valley, there was a big corner, the valley makes a big corner, and there was a lot of wind, a lot of sea breeze that makes very stable, and so it was finished with the terminal and I had to land.
So it's around 30 K before the goal, and the guys, they was behind me, they took the route in the south and they overtook me. Um, it was Gaspar Butio, Simon Oberauner, and Manu Nubel, so
Um, I lost a few places, but for me, you know, it was a mistake, but not a really big mistake, because it was when I managed to fly out the whole of this valley. Maybe the chance is here to catch
Yeah,
I mean, you've got to give it a shot, don't you, you know, for sure. And I
was thinking, I want to try something other, and it was also for me, the safer way to, because the main goal was to reach Monaco, so it was a little bit bad, and now it was a mistake to fly out this valley, but yeah.
That doesn't sound like too much of a mistake, but it was a little bit of a a mistake it just sounds like you were you know you were trying to do what what made sense and it didn't you know it's paragliding sometimes it doesn't work and
I think there are, what, there was a lot of small mistakes, and but not big mistakes that we was on the end, maybe 50k, 50k behind. And as someone, it was just small mistakes that makes small difference. But with some points where he was very lucky, we managed to catch or to make it better.
What
was your best day and what was your worst day?
Yeah, actually, when I looking back, one of the best day was was when we flew together to, uh, where was that? Yeah,
that was
Great, it was in the beginning was very tricky, and then we meet us in the air, and so it's very nice to fly together, yeah.
that was that was really fun Fun and easy, nice flying, wasn't it? It was great. No wind.
I was thinking it will be quite hard to fly to Osho because of this Irish wind. Yeah. But it was quite easy and it was really nice flying. And then the evening flight from Kampenland was really nice to fly to Hochkrönig and then direction to Kronplatz. But the worst day, maybe it was the last day, because we went up to the takeoff.
The weather forecast was looking quite good. So the weather forecast said that we have thermals from 10.30, around 11 o'clock. Then we was on the takeoff at 10:30, and there was quite a lot of backwind, and we was waiting there maybe for two hours, and I, I get quite nervous on the takeoff because I was thinking I have to fly, otherwise I didn't manage to to reach Monaco and
Then I took off, not with a good feeling, and I managed to fly to Schwalblasch, to the last turn point before Biele. Then it was really hard to make the decisions where I have to go and which route I have to take. I was not very comfortable in the air. I was thinking quite a lot what what should I do what is the best and this was for the head really um it was really tough for me if
You could rewind the clock to this last year preparing for the race, would you do anything differently than what you did knowing what you know now? Yeah,
Maybe one thing that I will do a little bit different is to start earlier with with the long walks, um, because I started with the first, uh, long walks in March, okay? And after the second one, I had, um, some pain in my knees, and then I had to to rest, or yeah, to be very careful until the race start because of my knees that they recover
as much as possible. So, I think for the next time, it will be better to to start earlier and maybe a little bit slower, yeah? And with with this long walks to to be, I think there I can prepare better, yeah.
You know, with my... I have really bad knees and, uh, you know, Ben, Ben is my trainer. He organizes all of that, but he, uh, he really recommends, you know, a not running. You know, he's running, it's just so hard on your body. But also, like, we usually start kind of mid-September and, you know, the walks then are like 10k, you know, really short, and they're not like really fast. You, you know, they're, they're short and they're mellow and, uh, no pack. And then you just very slowly build up, you know, and I, I have known I have very bad knees, but I have no knee pain and I haven't had any knee pain in any of the races. So I think it's, that's a good idea to start, you know, and do a lot of the mobility stuff rolling out on the balls.
And, you know, if you do a lot of that, it just keeps the joints lubricated and the muscles supple, you know? yeah so patrick it sounds like uh you've already made this this decision but uh will you do it again yeah
It's, it's really hard to say at the moment. And two days, the the Eiger Tour, it's a fly race here in the Alps. We'll start, and then there I see how motivated I am are at the moment. And yeah, then after I will, will see, um, what's going on. And on the end of the year, I think I want to make the decision. And of course, when I do it again, I want to, to prepare, um, same or a little bit more than this year. But at the moment, it's, it's too early to, to say something.
I'll ask you a question that I haven't with the others, but your your teammate and countrymate who I spoke to earlier today, Chrigel, you know, once again, he for me personally, I think everybody he's so inspiring. He's so good at this. And once again, he proved just how good he is at this. I mean, I think he probably had the toughest competition he's had in his six races this time with Maxine breathing down his neck there for those first few days. But I don't see that it's possible that any of us can ever touch him. You know, somebody like yourself who's big and strong and young and, you know, obviously really, really talented obviously has much more of a chance than someone like me.
But you know, do you see that? Uh, can anybody take Chrigel? I
Think this year we saw with Maxim that he can follow Chrigel, but it was—it's from the outside—it was looking Chrigel is is like maybe in the comfort zone, and and Maxim is pushing really hard. And yeah, I think Maxim will prepare also really hard and come back strong and then this year. But yeah, Drickle has now so a lot of experience, and he can stay so cool in really important decisions, and I
will say it's gonna it will be really hard to to to make it better than Crickland. At the moment, I don't know someone that can make this.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Patrick, I wish you the very best at the Eiger Tour. I was actually thinking about coming over and joining you guys, but I don't think my feet are quite ready. That last night of walking all night in the heat really damaged my feet. feet. They're fine now, but they're, uh, you know, I held up so fine for the race until that heat just sucked it out of me. But anyway, I'll be watching the, uh, the live tracking and wishing well on you guys and say hi to Michael for me. And it looks like a terrific event. I hope to come over next summer and do it, but it was just awesome to fly with you day two. That was so much fun. And, uh, and it was awesome to watch you do so well in the race, But congratulations with getting to Monaco, and and uh, I wish you all the best, and I hope we get to share some thermals in the very near future.
Yeah, thanks a lot, Kevin. Congratulations to you as well. Thank you, and yeah, from my side as well, it was—I really enjoyed the time to fly with you. It was really great, and I think we was a really good team, and together we managed to to fight to uh to our show. It was was really important there, yeah. And yeah, it will be great to see you, uh, see you back here in the Alps.
Awesome, I can't wait.
Eduardo Garza, T-Mexico one, coming off an awesome result in the 2018 X-Pyr. He was a rookie this time and fought super tenaciously, came in right in the middle of the pack, which I know he was psyched about. He's got a great story about getting caught in a Gus front, that's a little hair hair raising for sure. Enjoy Eduardo, hey, thanks for coming on the mayhem. I really appreciate it. We got to spend a little time in Verbier right after the race, which was really special and probably probably should have done it then rather than now when you're you're back in Boston and our lives are moving onwards, but I'm sure the race is still very fresh and, uh, man, it was a good, it was a good race with you and we were we were very close to each other quite a bit and, uh, congratulations, man.
I, I, uh, I know it would for both of us would have been much more awesome to get to Monaco, but still a valiant and, uh, epic effort, especially for your first one. And so, yeah, let's just start off with congratulations, absolutely.
Thank you, Gavin. Uh, certainly was a race to remember for us. It was, uh, difficult some days, a lot of fun other days, but the experience—the experience was amazing. And congratulations to you, too. You were pushing like a beast every single day. We're like, "How can we catch up to this guy?"
Yeah, it was a beast mode was required in this one. God, it was, the pace was incredible. I know I've—I'm sorry, listeners, I keep saying that with every, every, uh, every athlete we had on here, but man, it's the pace was insane this year.
It was, yes. Certainly it was. I think that was my biggest takeaway from the race. All the teams were really well prepared. Everyone was pushing relentlessly every single day. If you hadn't done 30K by 10 a.m., you were falling behind. Yeah,
totally. It was impressive to watch. It was really incredible and hard those last days with the heat. Jesus, that was hot and tough work. But I prefer the stormy, gust front, thunderstorms any day and the rain and all that over that stuff at the end. That was a brutal way, at least for me, to end. I didn't like that stuff much.
Yes, exactly. I think I would go 50-50 with that thunderstorms and heat just because at the X-Pyr, actually, we had most of the days, at least my first time, It was very, very hot and really gets to you, but you know, you just push through. And yes, it's gonna be, gonna be very difficult on the body, but on the thunderstorm side, we actually got in a few situations during this race that were pretty gnarly. And yeah, so survival mode pretty much turns on
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, tell, tell, tell everybody, one of them give, give... what was the the worst, well...
the worst this time, and I was thinking about all the differences between the x-period and the X-Alps. Uh, you know, being in a thunderstorm is, is bad anywhere, you know? It's, it's one of the worst-case scenarios, and when a thunderstorm just appears on top of you, you're trying to dodge the others and you say, "Yeah, I'm clear," but then one appears on top of you. It's not only anywhere, however, I think in the Alps is even more dangerous just because of the topography, yeah.
of course
you know, the thunderstorms, yeah, the valley
systems and everything, you just... man, they can get you from every angle. Exactly,
and they can be channeled, so the air, the gust rooms are channeled. It can be channeled towards you, and that's exactly what happened to us after tagging Lermos, going to Davos. You know, there's, there's two valleys, right? One is the direct valley through Galtur, yeah, and the other one was the squall valley. So, I believe that you took the squall valley, and I was flying with Judah, and he took the same route. They said, "You know what, next day might not be that good for flying, so might as well take the direct route." Well, that thousand mistake, because I went just to go through. We were at, uh, probably 22, 2300 meters, so I was planning to just do a glide and then walk the night, and then early morning just flying to the boss.
But what I hadn't realized is that the dark end of the valley was approaching way too fast, so I said, "Well, I'll land, I'll just walk through the thunderstorm and then just, just, just continue my way." But, uh, once I started getting lower in the valley, once I started getting to probably 2000 or 1500, I saw that my forward speed was decreasing rapidly, so from 50 kilometers an hour went to 30, to 10, to 0, then to minus 20, then to minus 40. I was going backwards at 40 kilometers numbers an hour push you full bar. Oh, I, I remember looking down, I know it was, it was one of those situations where, uh, the race goes into, into lowest priority and you're in survival mode, you know
I, I remember looking down and I said, "Huh, those bushes seem to be moving a lot, but..." But they were not bushes. They were 100-foot trees, you know. So at that point, my brain starts just trying to come up with ideas of really not getting hurt. And the first thing that I think is just landing where I am. But then I see the trees bending just at my altitude. They were bending 45 degrees. I'm talking big, big trees. And there's no good landing zones in that valley because it's so narrow and so full with houses. You know, there's a lot of development. Uh, I even remember, uh, flying on top of the street, probably 20, 30 meters above the street, trying to make a cycle landing happen, and there were cars stopped, people getting out of the car and just pulling out their phone, just trying to record whatever was going to happen.
I was like, "That's not a good sign."
So at that point, I said, "You know what? My only chance of getting out of this one without being the morning news is getting high again and landing as high as possible, even if I had to go back 10 kilometers." So, you know, I've had a lot of people ask me, "What happened that day? Because you went forward, then went back 10 kilometers, and then you stay there?" Well, I... it was not a lot of my choice. I... I was just going back because I couldn't penetrate. But at this point, I was just trying to find any bridge or any rock that was jutting out into the valley flow so I could get up again. And I actually found it. There's like a bend on the valley. So I found this huge spine that I could soar on.
But I was soaring at 10 meters per second.
Yeah, man. Man, so I'm going up, up, up, and once I reach 2500 meters or 2600 meters, I think the the forward speed starts increasing, but I know it's gonna get worse because now I'm feeling the raindrops on my wing and I start hearing them. You know, it's not, it's not a good sound, so I just turn back at that altitude and land at 2600 meters. Uh, I don't remember the name of the mountain.
what is the one that that it's pretty much at the beginning of landek, so you can take the squall route or you can take the culture route, so it's right, right on the edge, so I landed, packed in five minutes, and and just went and get some shelter at the at the lift station because Because it was getting early. The thunderstorm was approaching. And fortunately, I was able to land fine. And the most amazing thing happened afterwards. So I'm there waiting for my team. There's this person who arrives and says, Hey, you Eduardo? He's like, yeah. He's like, oh, I brought you some hot tea, some watermelon, some bananas, and some other food.
I was like, what? So people were watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that was the, I think one of the coolest things in the race is that people are, you know, live tracking you and they just want to help. They just want to meet the athletes, you know? So that was super cool. Actually.
That's really cool. That's, that's actually my last question. So we've done, uh, you've already answered the last one. Uh, yeah, good story, man. It's interesting too, cause the, you know, in my experience and the experience of the other, the other athletes I've spoken to who have done, you know, other races in the past as well, well, this was the mellowest of the races, you know, like wind wise, weather wise, it was just, it was, you know, for the most part, pretty tame, but there was these, you know, there were, there were a lot of thunderstorms in that middle section of the race day four or five and six or whatever, five, six and seven, I guess that, uh, you know, if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, it was mean it was, it was grumpy. And, uh, yeah, A lot of people did get hit by that, and then, and then that always makes me think about, you know, this race in general, and you know, like the day, the day we got to Crone Plots, uh, and you know, I top landed and relaunched immediately, and it was really deteriorating fast, you know, and I was, I was, I was actually thinking about the people behind me, thinking like, "Man, I would not want to be later than this," and because the north was still pretty good, and when I got back over the spine, it was, you know, like behind me there, there was already lightning and lots of stuff dropping out.
And I thought, God, you know, but if I was back there, I'd fly through it just like everybody else did, you know. But if we were just flying, you know, you and I in the Rockies or anywhere in the world on a day like that, you'd go land and go swimming.
Oh, absolutely. You
would never do that, you know.
But you know what? You were talking about the people behind you. Well, I think I saw you going to Mayrhofen. Yeah. So I was right. I was behind. And I remember seeing Kronplatz from the distance, and I turned to my left, which is the east, and there's this wall of rain just coming down, just pouring. But then you have on the west, sun feeding everything. So it wasn't that bad from that perspective. The problem was the darkness on the south. So probably one kilometer, or not even one kilometer, probably 600 meters south of Kronplatz, where the Dolomites really start. It was just so dark, so I said, "You know what? I don't think it can get any worse than this." And then, at that moment, I just see lightning, like hitting the rocks, and super nasty.
Like, "You know what? It can get worse." Yeah, yeah, and
i thought
to myself, I have to go there and land. I have to sign the board, and then I have to to do a little chat, and then I have to launch, and then I have to huff it to towards Innsbruck or towards Solden, because the the path towards Mayrhofen was actually now in rain by that point. So I was like, you know what, in a normal day I wouldn't do this. I mean, I would see everything happening happening around me, and I I would go straight to land, but obviously, you're racing, and number two, you don't want to walk or hike more than you need. So, yes, I guess the race really pushes you to make that tough decision. However, I would have to say that while in the air, I was at 3,500 meters because the day was just exploding.
I looked at the radar, and I saw that the thunderstorms would actually be contained, let's say, south of Kronplatz. So that's why I made the decision just to head land as quick as possible, and then just get out as quick as possible, just because the rain was going to be maintained and contained, and also the thunderstorms from the south were going to be in the same place or moving from west to east, I should say. That's
a good point to have that. I think that's one of the aspects that a lot of people with live tracking don't either see or know that we're utilizing as much as we are as the technology. You know, I mean, there wasn't any time in the race where I didn't have Revis, you know, a phone press away where I could, you know, like that day flying towards Davos, the one you were talking about, you got in the gust front and I chose the south line because the north line was, you know, clearly blowing up and it was a big sell over Davos. And he's looking at all these on the radar and the hectopass, wherever it is, for the depth of how big these things are, and just feeding me constant information in the sky where I could— I still did top land at one point, just because I was like, dude, are you sure?
Like this looks bad, the stuff I'm flying into. And he was like, yeah, we're going to get ahead of you and if it gets bad down here on the ground, we'll let you know and you could slope land high. And so I kept forging on. And at one point he finally did. He was like, okay, now, you know, we had light wind and I would now classify the winds as dangerous and we're getting heavy raindrops and, you know, you need to slow plan. And, but it's, you know, that, that information that your team provides is just, or that you can just dial into in the air. If you're good at that stuff, like you are, then, you know, it's just so incredible that we have that at our fingertips and it's so, you know, you really need to use it. Well, hey, that leads me to the first question really is what – when you look back at the last year and you've done the X-Pyr twice.
You and I both have the same trainer and Ben Abruzzo as Willie did and I think physically that worked out really well for all three of us. But what, if anything, did you underestimate?
Underestimating. I think I should have spent more time in the Ups. Definitely. On the physical side, Ben, you know, he's just amazing. He knows exactly what you need, and I never felt that I was out of shape for anything. Even getting to Switzerland and doing two monster hikes per day and then having to walk afterwards, it was a non-issue. At the end of the day, my body screamed, stop. You know, you have to recover. So I do feel that, well, at night I was not able to move sometimes, but by the morning, you know, if you get good rest, at least from 12 to 4, I mean, we woke up at 4.30.
At 5 o'clock, I was ready to go for another, you know, 50K. I think we averaged 48 kilometers on the ground per day. So by the next morning, I was always fine. So physically, physically I was fine, and kudos to to Ben, he's awesome on the flying side. On the XP, for example, there is a very well-defined flying route you can take. Some variants, but that won't be that significant, you know, in the Alps, for example. For example, flying from Eiger to Mont Blanc, there were so many routes. You could cross to the Sion Valley in Ardenboden, or you could just go to Martigny, or you could take the north route through Samoens, and it all depends on the weather and, well, if you really know the route or not.
So that was our first time flying in that area, and, well, fortunately, we were able to devise a plan. And while you mentioned technology, this was a day with very strong west wind.
So I was in communication constantly with my team just to see where the wind was less strong. And they gave me the perfect information. They said, you know what, go through Chamonix. Instead of having 35 kilometers an hour at 2,500 meters, you have half of that or less in Chamonix. So I made myself, you know, I, I, I just, uh, went quickly to Shawnee and that worked perfectly. Um, but again, there's so many routes that you can follow. And if you are not that well versed in the area, it can be, it can be very difficult to spend two weeks scouting.
Two weeks is nothing really. If you want to scout at 1,138 kilometer routes, we scouted just due to the weather in May, mostly it was France. So we scouted 20 percent of the race, but we were able to cover 80 percent, meaning that many of the areas were completely new to us.
Eduardo, what was your biggest mistake?
From a strategy point, I think that not flying early enough. My mistake, and that's all on me, Because I sometimes decided to take lights and then hike up again when I should have waited 30 more minutes or 45 more minutes for the day to start turning on and then slowly but surely make your way through the course. You know, this happened when we were crossing, uh, the criminal bus that day turned on at probably 9:30 a.m. and at 8:45, close to 9, I was doing a glide to where I, I think you were there. We were in Hoi Salve and I glided south like towards the Bilco and I was on the ground and I start seeing this clouds just pop everywhere and very high.
It's like, oh my goodness, this is gonna be another speed hike of, uh, 1500 meter in ascent and five kilometer total. So, uh, I was late. I didn't start at 10:30, for example, or 10 o'clock. I started at 11:30, close to 12, and that's why we got in province and crumpled. So, yeah.
You missed 40, 40k on the table there. That really hurt. Best day, worst day, one...
of the last days when we flew from, uh, Lank, and we got to close to Albertville, close to Guinea, on our tours on way towards Saint Helena. That was, that was actually a pretty good flight because the wind was so strong. I was with Judah Cody, and he has a bigger glider, and he was able, able to penetrate and take a route north. I couldn't follow him. It's like, you know what? This is not going to work for me. I'm going to sink out. I have to figure it out. So I started going to the big ridges on the south, so I was shielding myself from the wind on the big ridges and, and pretty much just flying the lee all day. And I get to this area, I had never flown the, the area of the Diablorette, so I get to this, uh, to this huge ball.
It was just amazing, amazing ball, where I said, you know what? Let me go back, let me take a few pictures, and then continue the course because it's so awesome, uh. And then we flew through Chamonix and landed in Ugina, and then we started walking, uh. But those two days, definitely the best, um, worst day you know, we didn't have, uh, a bad day per se, but I would have to say that they were the thunderstorm in Galtour just because because, well, we lost 10 kilometers that we had done forward, then we had to go back, and then I couldn't move because the thunderstorm wasn't on top of us. So I lost – or we lost probably 40 kilometers just because of that thunderstorm.
Yeah, it sucks to get pinned. I got really pinned in 2017 and bombed out leaving Lermous and hiked up in the best part of the day. And we knew it was going to OD. And by the time I got to the top, uh, my my team was out of cell network and they couldn't find me. A launch, they were stuck in the mud and so I I had two choices: I could go left or I could go right. And we knew there was a launch up there because it's all treed on top of this, that's that kind of island above impst and, uh, under the airspace there and I, we, we knew there was a launch up there because Toma had used it in front of us and I, I could have turned right or left and I went left and the launch was to the right. And so by the time I got high enough to get up kind of above the trees where there was kind of a launch, it was already od 'ing and dumping on me and so I had to run back down to the hut.
Had a wonderful night in the hut and drinking beer and, you know, and had a good feed and had a great sleep. But, you know, 10 hours of no movement and uh I just these days in the race, you can't, your race is over, you're done if you do that. You know, you just you just can't get pinned anymore, you know, you just got to keep moving. And I almost got pinned this time on top of Titlis. You know, we had like a two-minute window that opened up between a snowstorm and I was able to punch out, but if I hadn't been, you know, the guys in front of me would have gotten 50k on me. And so, yeah, it's yeah, the the pace is intense. Well, you you've already answered, if you prepared differently, what would you what would you do? You'd scout. So I'll jump to the next one. Uh, will you do it again?
Excellent.
question it's
the obvious one. It's the one everybody asks, but the answers have been interesting. I
Know, it's, uh, let me just forget about the pain because, you know, and I know you know this, but there's no worse thing than getting up at 4:30 a.m. knowing that ahead of you is a day with only rain and you have to walk 70 kilometers and you're gonna be wet, you're gonna be cold, and you just have to do it. You know, it's, it's a lot of pain. It takes, takes a lot from you just to dig deep and find the motivation to actually do it. You know, yeah, uh, which is also, I think, that I'm proud of the team because we always push, that we never gave up. We, we were pushing as hard as we could, so we have definitely no regrets in terms of, uh, we left it all there, you know?
We, we gave it our all and that was the result that we got in the end. You know, so let me just forget about the pain and then I can answer that question a little bit better, but um, you know, it's also a lot of money and time, mostly if you're coming from America, yeah. Just, uh, plane tickets, then you have, you have to stay somewhere, you know? And then all the rentals because you obviously don't have a van over there, but you have to rent everything, so it's, it's a big expense. I need to find a bigger sponsor. It's a very cool race. It's, it's, it's an amazing experience. but it's a a question that I need more time to answer
Yeah, I find that there's kind of a hole in in life that is hard to fill after the x ops, and I felt the exact same way after the last two too, as well. But, you know, there's so much preparation and training and anticipation and planning and laughs with the team and just everything. I mean, and also just there is something very special about being supported by your team for that period of time where, you know, your whole job is just to go as hard as you can. And they think, you know, and I don't know, it's like it's a camaraderie that I don't easily find in, you know, in regular life. Uh, and I'm not, I mean, I'm not, I'm not complaining by any means. I'm just, it's just, it's very intense and it's not just the race. It's very intense for a long time before the race.
Uh, and then it just ends, you know, and in our case, it ends in a weird place. Uh, in fact, ending in Monaco is the worst because, you know, I, I, I have said over and over again, how much I hate that place, but you, and, you know, You've just flown through the most amazing scenery in the world, really, uh, in a lot of ways, and had this incredible experience, and you end in this concrete jungle, jungle, and you fly down to the raft, and, uh, and there's not one person there. I mean, there's no fans, there's nothing, there's nothing. It's, it's, we're very weird ending there, uh, in some ways I'd rather end where we... of course, you'd rather end in Monaco than where we did, but you know, ending at Col de Lazard with just my team, and there's, you, you know, it's a, it's a very strange thing.
You just did 12 o'clock, it's done and you're, you go away and it's over. Yeah.
Now you can actually get in a car and, and act like a normal person. Exactly.
Uh, what advice would you have for someone? Because you were a rookie this year and you, you know, you were obviously building up to this. I know you applied in 2017, uh, didn't get in and, you know, but you had these two really successful expir campaigns behind you. And I'm I'm sure that really weighed heavily on the selection committee to, you know, for this time. But what advice would you give either just like to get in the race or just, you know, to prepare for something like this for all the people who watch that, you know, are inspired and start thinking, you know, maybe it's something I'd like to do.
You know, you mentioned the 2017, the time that I applied and didn't get in. And I think it was a good decision from the organization because I don't think I was prepared enough. I had to get more hiking fly races under my belt to even think in tackling this magnitude of fun events. And right now, I feel that I was ready, and that's why we're able to push and keep up with very, very good teams. But in 2017, I wouldn't have done it because I was just not prepared. I mean, we had done the 2016 Xperia,
but the team logistics, just the flying aspect of it, you know, always land high. If you have zero, just land high and wait for it. It opens up and you keep going. I mean, that wasn't something that I had developed or at least understood that well. So I needed the next X-Pyr, the 2018 X-Pyr, to really see how other teams work. For example, we were flying a lot with Nelson de Freyman. He obviously knows what he's doing. He's done the X-Alps twice. And we were flying the whole route in the X-Pyr together. And it was a very good learning experience for me. So now I say, you know what? Now I think I'm prepared for the X-Alps.
Because if you try to make the X-Alps your first race, it will be overwhelming. It's a big undertaking. You better get the logistics, better get in the mindset that the hiking flyer race is with a shorter race. It can be a two-day race. It can be a three-day or the X-Pyr, which it's still an undertaking, but it's not two weeks or 11 days. It's only seven days. So that would be my advice.
Give it to me on a scale. What's the magnitude of the X-Pyr versus the X-Alps? You know, like is it 50-100? Is it 70-100? Is it 10-100?
On the X-Pyr, I would say it's like 60 to 100, let's say. And I'm going by length and also by the size of the mountains you actually have to hike. In order to get to a launch on the X-Pyr, you don't have to always hike 1,500 meters to 1,000 meters. I mean, there are lower launches just because, you know, the height of the mountains is normally the highest around 3,000, but everything else around 2,000, 2,500. hundred, so in in terms of, uh, physical exertion, I would say, uh, 60 to 100. Okay,
Okay, interesting. Yeah, that's, uh, yeah, and great advice, I think, and several others have have, uh, you know, chimed in on that as well, that it's, yeah, I think, I think the other thing that maybe Nick Nanan said it interesting, he said that you know, the if you just apply for the X-Alps to see, you know, like just to to get the experience of applying, but then you get in and you're not really ready, then that might be your only chance. You know, you, you actually, they are very selective. If you don't do pretty well, you know, we, you're, you, you get the ax, then you're not going to get the invite back. And, uh, you know, so I, I think you really do, you want to, you want to wait to apply when you're ready. Eduardo, that's it, man. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for answering these these questions and sharing your experience.
And again, congratulations. And I do hope you'll do it again because you are a fierce competitor and I think you're just warming up and you're obviously fit as a fiddle. And so, yeah, I hope you keep pushing and I hope we see you back in 2021. I hope I'm smart and I'll be watching you that time this time. We shall see. But thanks.
Thanks, Eduardo. Thank you very much, Gavin.
And finally, of course, we'll save the best for last, Chrigel. This was his sixth win. Unbelievable. Just, I say this, I think, in the interview over and over again, completely inspiring. He is truly at a totally new level. Maxime certainly gave him the hardest run I think he's had yet in his six wins, but still way out there in front and still incredible to watch. Just nothing to say, but awesome. Awesome. Enjoy, Chrigel.
Chrigel, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing your thoughts. I thought this would be really fun to ask a bunch of the teams kind of the same questions while it's still very fresh. It's been a little over a week now since you won your incredible sixth Red Bull X-Humps. Just remarkable, man. And it's really exciting to watch you operate in the mountains and very inspiring and always incredibly humbling. So first off, just congratulations. Was this any more special than the other wins or is it just chalking another one up?
Yeah, thank you very much, Kevin. And congratulations to you. It was a hard week for all the athletes, I think. Yeah. Also for me, because it was a long distance, there were many turn points to sign. And finally, we were lucky with the weather. For me, it was more easy than other editions because there was less wind, no fern, not too much thunderstorm. So it felt more safe at all. For me, some days it was really a pleasure because crossing the main ridge, the Alps, by flyways, It's, um, it's always, uh, more easy and excited. So, um, for me, it was, it was the goal to, to win for sure, but to also to have the safe moves.
I mean, to have always smart and good decisions and to move on with this safe, um, character. So, finally, I reached Monaco with all this, and, um, it makes me very proud to, to end a hard race, a hard adventure, without any problems with a healthy body, and that makes me very happy, and I think it's the best one ever I did. I
Was just gonna say, is this it? Was this your favorite win? Yeah,
For sure, it was the plan, but it's, uh, it's always different in an adventure, yeah? So I remember 2017, for example, I wanted to save and after the first day when I cover 80k on the road, my knee was damaged. So I got the injury where I not get in control until Monaco, so the knee was, was all day painful and not that was not, not the fun. And on the end I say, okay, and a hard race, but my knees is, uh, is in the problem. It made seven weeks recovery, so it was not so, so the best one. And this year it's, uh, I was really careful with my body. I was really have my team which controlled me and finally with these rules and this checklist, I was able to manage all day safe and it makes me very happy.
What
Was this, you know, I in in some ways, I mean, you're always out in front and you're always very difficult, if not impossible, to catch. But in some ways, I felt like, you know, again, this is just from when I was walking, I could watch a little bit of the tracking and stuff. But it seemed like you had to fight harder in this one than in previous editions. Was this the hardest one to win? I mean, in the end, you were still quite a ways out in front of Maxime, but he put up a pretty good fight. He
did very good, and he's a really good athlete. I know him from the PWC. He's a very excellent flyer. It means he can fly alone, find the best core in the terminal to have a good climb. And he's very smart as well. So my tactic was to fly until Switzerland to make the, for me, difficult turn point, the Titlis. And after we will see if I can improve or not. So I was quite relaxed, so when he was with me or in front of me, for me it was okay because of this tactic. And finally, when I made this turn point, Flyways in, uh, in day four, I felt a big, uh, help because, uh, he was stuck in the cloud or because of a thunderstorm, he was not so fast at this moment.
So I was maybe in Davos, I was maybe 45 minutes in a lead, and on the end, it was almost one day. So this day four, when I could land on the Titlis, it was really a, a pre-decision and for me a big help to, to stay relaxed. I
did a podcast with patrick um just a few weeks before the race And he was telling me about the, the kind of academy, like the X-Alps Academy that you've started and you've got some, you know, pilots like him. And I think one of his supporters, I think is also really solid. What are the kind of the, what are the kind of the main things that you're trying to pass along to these, these younger X-Alps pilots that, that really make a difference in the race? You know, what, what are the, what are the kind of, you know, what are the, what are the things you put up on the chalkboard? Like, Hey, this is what you really like. For example, he, he mentioned that, you know, one of the things that you talk about in the academy is that, you know, the little things add up, you know, so the speed that you pack your glider and the, the, if you get another 500 meters in your, in the little flights and the little glides, then over the course of 10 days, you know, it really adds up.
And I was thinking about that during the race. Like I, I really spent quite a bit of time this time learning to pack my glider fast, but very often when I would unpack the glider, I'd have like a little tangle or a little, like it was just, you know, slowing me down a little, you know, a little, little, little, you know, like one time, uh, Patrick and I launched at the same time in Ashow. And, you know, he was in the air five minutes before I was from almost the same place because I was farting around with my glider. And I thought, gosh, this is just one little part of my game where I really need to refine. And by the end of the race, you know, I'd figured it out. I just wasn't putting my lines back correctly. But what are things like that that, you know, in your mind, like if you could advise the community, maybe the people that are thinking about someday doing the X-OPS, what are the things that you're obviously doing better than everybody else?
First of all, I really like to share my experience to other pilots. They like this adventure races. I mean, it's not only X-OPS. It's all about the year. They are high-complex competitions. and I think there is a good community in enduring sport like marathon or in flying like Swiss league or all the leagues in the in the countries, but there is no really um something to learn about hike and fly. So with my sponsor teamwork, we started this X-Alps academy one and a half year year ago, and the goal was really to to motivate and to to share the experience with uh young pilots they like this style of hike and play competitions, and for sure there was a goal to have young pilots in the future in the X-Alps.
So with Patrick, he was a bit lucky because he was very good in flying already, and so there was a one year of working together to share the experience, to have a look of all the details of the important things of strategy of teams, team settings, everything like this, and I think with this work he was very fast, quite well prepared, so when I needed, for example, two editions of X-ups, he was ready in one year, and I think it's also Also for the future, a very good tool to have – to share all the experience under all the athletes and to come better and better in this specific discipline, I think.
What, if anything, could you change? You and I and Tom were on that kind of athlete committee that you put together, which I think was a really good idea. What, if anything, maybe in retrospect, looking back at this race, if you were Ulrich and you were at the command, what would you change about the race that would either make it better or more fun to watch or more competitive, potentially? yeah
For me, it looks, it looks really that the term points, um, they fix the root extremely, and it's not, uh, it's more on a media event. It pushes the term points, but not the the interesting of the roots. So, um, I prefer one or two term points to have a different options in between. In generally, uh, I think there are two, two things. Um, one is the competition characteristic. So, for, for the competition, you have to remove turn points, and there is the, the organizer. They have the idea for a good event, for a media event, sure, and for also to make it more, um, um, sellable, or more visible for the, for the fans.
And for this, I think it's the opposite. You have to do more turn points, but this turn points, you have to do more attractive. It means if there is like, uh, in the cycling to the France, for example, they have daily runs, and then you have a start and a goal. And maybe if, if you do, uh, an adventure race with, um, maybe three day races, it means cover over 200k, and then have a stop, and then the next day you have a restart. All that leads together It makes it more attractive for the turn points, I mean, because there is a arriving of the athlete, then the athletes they stay there for maybe one day, they have time, so all the fans they can visit and they can have a talk for selfies and these things, and then you have a restart at the next day, and then all the athletes start together and and then it's a new race, a new uh for all of them, they have a new motivation because they can stay in front again, and I think it would be also more difficult to me to to be in front because we thought that when when we are together the others they can do exactly the same and they can do flying, well they they hike well, I think my my My strong point is to find the root, the best root, depends on the weather, when I stay alone.
That's a
good idea. I really like that idea. Any other ideas like that along those lines to improve it?
There is also the question about safety.
I feel that the biggest problem is the tiredness. So, uh, if we could have more sleep, for sure, it's less extreme, extra less hard adventure race, but it makes it more safe, I think, for all the teams. And, for example, we have this two or three days race, and then it's one day rest, yeah, and then a restart. It will help a lot also for the safety, because, um, yeah, if you have a rest, you can think about something else, you can recover your head and your body. And then, maybe this is also an important part, but on the other side, it's, it's good to have a start and who is first in in the Mediterranean Sea.
Uh, yeah, for me, it's, it's both options, but on the end, I think the X-Alps, it's also, um, it's, it's a unique race, and it's for 10 times, or now for nine times, it was similar, it was very similar, but, but now, maybe for the 10th addition, it's, it's good to have a change, yeah.
What if, anything? I can't imagine you underestimate anything, but uh, you know, you've done it. You've won six times now, but uh, looking back at this race, did you underestimate anything? Anything you would have done differently?
Yeah, it was very close to the perfect one, but for sure I had some, some um, bad luck also. So, for example, before Lermos, um, I was pushing too much and I, I had to, I, I bomb out, so I had to walk up for another hour. So it's also the reason Maxim could, um, catch up a 20k delay. So this, for sure, was, was, um, over motivation or too much pushing. So this, this, um, I will be safe or, yeah, do it better. And on the other side, it was always difficult to find a good solution depends of the weather. So, in, in after the race, you always, um, stay more, more smart.
So now it's easy to say on which place I have to push or to wait, but in generally the strategy we, we have with the, with the team, it was perfect. And, um, I would say I tried to have the same in two years. I
was going to say you, your, your team changed quite a bit this year. You had the same support you did in the expir this last year, but, um, is, has that been a big thing for you to adjust to? Has that been hard or was it pretty easy to, you know, from all the experience to train up a new team
For sure, it was. It was new and we was a bit unlucky in the spring with the weather and with, uh, with the with the competitions we like to do, and there was canceling a border race and my other supporter we planned to that he come, he had an accident, so he had to switch which three weeks before the race, one person. So it was not too easy. It was quite hard, and we had to learn during the race how it works best. But generally, it helped me also to stay motivated, to work with them, to feel what are the strengths of each person. So it was also good to have a new experience and a new motivation for the race.
How much of the race do you put in their hands? For example, when you land or that day you bombed out going to Lermous, are they totally in charge of your route and the next place you launch? They're the ones doing Google Earth and the meteo and the weather and everything, and you pack your glider and you go? Or are you really involved in those decisions as well?
The main strategy was that the team bring all in the camper van or in the e-tron, I mean the car, and they bring me this as soon as possible to my landing if I like support. And the other part was that they always have a control over the race to share information, like new weather forecasts, new information from the organization. All these communication parts were very important. important and also when I when I plan the next day that I think with me that they give me new route new ideas so I can choose the best for me and like this it works was
working together, but I always, on the end, I always take the decision what I like to do, hmm.
What was your your best day and your worst day?
It always feels very good when I can cover a big distance. I mean, when I flew all the way to Titlis, because Titlis for me was the worst, or the most difficult turn point. I top landed and I flew down, so it felt very good. Um, maybe it was, was just a good playing day, but But in the end, I covered a difficult part and it felt like I did very good. And the worst one was maybe when I crossed at home. My place I know very well and I was expecting easy going and it was the hardest day. I covered 5,400 meters uphill and on the end, I was flying in the rain.
my glider was totally wet and we stopped at 9 in a camping because I was looking for a room to dry my wing and we stopped already at 9 and my glider, My gear was completely wet. Also, the reserve I had to put out and drying, and when we eat dinner at 10, I felt not too good because I covered almost nothing and my gear was wet and I was totally, uh, over because 5400 meters, it makes me very tired. And so it's, it's totally strange, you know, the the feeling about the good and the bad day.
Um, your your preparation is famous for these races, and I think you—I even saw somewhere that you were more fit for this one than in any previous edition, which we all got to see in in the prologue. Uh, I never felt that you in the previous prologues that I've done with you, I think you were pretty casual about them. But clearly this time you were really gunning for it to get that second position. And I mean Benoit and Maxime are fast. And that was a breakneck pace for a prologue. I mean I think we were all really fast that day. But if you could – in the last – I know you're always preparing. You always say as soon as you're done with this one, you're preparing for the next.
But if you could prepare differently for this specific race, when you look back at the last year, what would you change, if anything?
It was quite good because of a lot of power training in gym during the winter. And I never stopped really because I realized that it's very important for the body to have a good shape in muscle. So the legs have to be very strong, and I, I did once in a week, um, gym until the start. So, and during training, I did a lot of ski touring, also ski touring races, to to have a base, a good base. And then in spring, I start to run, and this also was quite good. Maybe for a next edition, I tried to have more competition, I mean flying competition close before the start from lakes, because this year I was not planning really the competitions.
And finally, the weather was not too good to fly cross country, and at the start, and not have the best feeling about my flying skills. And so it's always a question of time, so spending more time for the physical training or for the flying training. But next time, I try to have in the winter, spring more during training, and then focus on flying and to have more flying competitions to really be ready at the race start.
And when you say flying competitions, you're not talking like World Cups and stuff. You're talking like hike and fly competitions or
both? Yeah, both. Maybe also World Cup because in the World Cup you really learn or you get the feeling to fly fast, to fly just straight rate and just keep the or take the best um thermals and this gives you a good average speed in the hiking flight too
One of the things I'm finding tricky, and this might just be unique to me, but I—I kind of doubt it. Um, you've got a couple kids, and you know I have my little daughter that I had right after the last race. Um, age is certainly a component, I think. I've got more than 10 years on year, but the, um, the balance I find tricky, um, because the race requires at least my approach because I'm older and I have quite bad knees. I really have to train hard physically for this race. I really put a lot of effort into that because, uh, I know it will pay off and I don't want to end the race because of my knee or something. So, um, but it's also so much time And so much preparation.
I, my next question is actually, will you do it again for everybody else? Obviously you will. So I don't need to ask that, but, um, are you finding that, you know, difficult to balance with your kids? You know, you know, the, obviously they know this is who you are and this is what you do, but, um, you know, it's not just the ex-alps that you do. You're doing a lot of the other ones as well. And like the X period, these are, they're all big commitments. And I'm finding, you know, my, where I am right now is like, gosh, I just don't know if I can put that kind of time in and also be, you know, a good dad. Are you finding that tricky, time consuming, hard? And if so, how are you balancing it?
Actually, I, I feel very comfortable because I'm self self-employment and um, flying is my life. So as long I can cover my life for my family with flying, I'm very proud and I, I feel also still motivated to train. It mean it's not a, it's not a must to train, it's a, it's a gift and I can share my experience during the training with other people, with friends and I, I set some some competitions for sure because it's also fun and it's um, it's the game for for getting more media work. It means um, every article I can um, generate with the competition, it's good for my sponsors and uh, so I, I have to find a balance between family, training and the competitions.
And um, as long I, I feel good, that means that my body works well. I like to do this, and so if next year I find a good adventure, I do this. Maybe it's XP again, because the peonies I really like, and then I hope to be ready in 2021 for the X-Alps again, because working with the young pilots, prepare them with the X-Alps Academy, it's also a good motivation. And when I feel the motivation of them, they push me, they like to do better than me, maybe I can be better than now.
What advice would you have for millions of people watch the race and they watch the live tracking and you know there's lots of good pilots in the world and they get quite inspired by what they see? Um, what main bits of advice would you give to someone who's thinking about doing the X-Alps?
It's, it's, uh, it's more than a competition. Um, if you like to do a competition, you better go to, to other competitions, because the X-Alps is an adventure. It needs a lot of preparation, um, for the logistic with the team. It, it, um, it's also hard to work with the media. If you do this the first time, when working with all this media, maybe it's, uh, it's more hard than in a competition. And finally, it's also quite long because, uh, 10 days, it, um, maybe the first two days it's fun, and then it starts to be hard, and on the end it's really a fight. And if you like this, you can do; if you not really like, let's say, in us, in a shorter competition to enjoy this, is my experience.
But for me, in general, it's, it's, it gives me a good motivation for the life, you know? If I have exhaust project, I know it starts in, for example, one year, I can have daily motivation for my training, I can optimize my equipment, I can have a good time with my team, and on the end it's, it's just this 10-day race where I have to test, where I have to the work, I think. And for me, it's, um, it's, it's more from the preparation time than from the, uh, competition at all.
what What? How? What? How does your... I haven't had this of the others, but it's just something I'm feeling right now. I have felt in this race and the last two as well that, you know, the gift and the opportunity of training for something like this and the time and the anticipation and I, I love, I love it. The, the whole process is, is really just, you know, there's... it's... It's overwhelming, it's consuming, it's fun, it's, you know, you get to, you basically get to focus on your health for a year, you know, so, you know, what better thing could there be? And then you have this experience, which is like mind blowing and it's difficult and it's fun and it's fascinating and it's, you have the laugh.
I mean, I never laugh so hard as I do with my team in the X-Alps. I mean, we just have a really, really good time and then it's over. over, um, and both the in 2015 and 2017, and then this time it's over. And you know, you, you have this elation and exhaustion, and you know all the things that people can imagine you will have, but you also, for me, it's, it's also a really hard time. There's like a, you know, it's, it's like coming down off some really, really good high, um, and it's, I mean, you're, you're used to it. You've now done, done that six times, and you've done all these other races, but do you experience that? Is that, are these weeks post the X-Alps? I mean, for me, they're the hardest weeks because there's, yeah, I don't know what to do with myself in a sense, yeah.
That's funny for me. The whole project, it... it looks like, uh, when I do the we are visualization, it's like a pyramid. So the... the peak of the... of the pyramid, it's the X-ups, and everything comes together. And after I am the top, and the only thing I can do is to fall down. So after the X-ups race, it feels like staying in a hole. Everything is dark and no motivation. The body, it's tired. Uh, there is no power left to do something else. Yeah. And on the beginning in 2009 and 11, it felt very, very hard. This first three, four weeks after the race...
um, now I did a clear, uh, timetable what I do after the race because this helped me to stay focused. So it means, um, the first week I do holiday with my boys, then, uh, start a little, little bit of training again. And now I have some competitions, um, like the Eiger Tool, for example, and it gives me new motivation and new focus. And this, I really need to not stay in this hole and do nothing. Yeah, because as you said, it's... it's the preparation period close to the race, and then the race, it's the... the most, uh, intense days in the year. And, um, to feel all this, uh, it's...
it's, um, it's great. But after it, it goes on, and then you have to be prepared for this, Chrigel.
Thank you very much, as always. I really appreciate your time, your openness. It was great to have those chats with you before the race and, uh, god man, it's—it's really, it really is awesome to watch you work and it really is inspiring. So, congratulations on your sixth win of the X-Alps. I know there are more in your future and, uh, I hope to see you again soon. Yeah,
Thank you very much for you for call and for your interest. And then, yeah, see you soon if
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