Hi there everybody. Welcome to episode 98 of the Cloudbase Mayhem. We are almost to 100 and what that means is I am hard at work. This is great actually after the X-Alps to be able to relax and just write and work on this book that's kind of a tools of titans about the mayhem. We're going to put all the best of the best together in a book that Cross Country is publishing. Working closely with Ed and Hugh on that. It's very exciting. Writing, we hope to have that kind of in draft format and ready to go by this fall and published early in the year, so stay tuned for that. Certainly, this conversation that you're about to hear is going to have a lot in it. This is an awesome conversation. Before we get to the talk with Alex Robey, a couple things of housekeeping. Uh, we had a pretty tragic accident, uh, that ended as bad as it could really at the Horseshoe Bend flight park a couple weeks ago.
I don't know all the details, I'm not going to get into that here, but a few of the people that were on scene at that accident have asked me to just remind you, the community, that medical training, specifically wilderness first response training, is really key to what we do. It's a nine-day course, it's expensive, and there's only a few of them a year, so you know, it's something you really have to invest in, but I can speak from experience. It is absolutely awesome. And I mean, it's great to have CPR and first aid, but really what we do is remote and access often to first response care is hours and hours away. If I mean, possibly days, if you're flying cross country in places like beer and all over the world for that matter.
So this is something that we need to really take on as a community. We've talked about it quite a bit on the show. There's actually a whole show on it with the Matt Wilkes podcast, a good friend of mine who's an ER doc up in Scotland and now an instructor in Brevier. He's got some great thoughts on what happens and how you should respond to various kinds of trauma. Often trauma, obviously, with free flight is final. So we need to know how to stabilize. We need to know how to medicate. We need to know how to comfort our victims. systems and we need to know how to get them out. And I have often talked about the importance of having a Garmin InReach device or at least a spot, but a way to communicate with the outside world when you don't have cell service. So that's step one.
Step two is certainly wilderness first response training. So this is a great reminder that out of tragedy comes good things. And so So the good thing here is that it is a reminder to go out and get this training and help our community be safer. That's often what this podcast is all about.
Okay, Alex Robe. If you are like me and an ex-contest junkie, you probably check it out, especially on days where you can't fly. And on the big days, the hammer talk days in Europe, you're going to see one name over and over and over again, often right at the very top. And that's Alex Robe. That's my guest today. I've been wanting to talk to him for years, and I actually got the opportunity to fly with him about a week ago at Antholz on a big day. It was terrific to see him and his buddies in action. More of them will be on future shows as well, including Primo Sousa from Slovenia, who is another guy you often see at the very top there. And we talk about a lot of amazing, just great stuff in this—in this show, Alex is very good about sharing his thoughts.
He writes a blog about every flight he takes; he takes pictures and videos, and kind of stills it all down into great learning opportunities. He gives talks quite frequently. He's also a guy that's very restricted with his time; he has family and job commitments that keep him out of the sky, so his approach to risk is basically to only fly the really, really, really good days. So, uh, this is crazy, but he's, I think, his worst flight of his five best this year is like a 260 something FAI. He's got a couple of 290 something fais, fais in a given year, he'll fly by 10, 15 flights a year.
He won X contest in 2015. He won it again in 2017. He insists he's very much a recreational pilot still. He doesn't do very good wing overs and stuff, but this is a guy that clearly knows how to crush and he really knows how to stay in the sky for 10 or more hours on these big days that he picks. So we talk about what aspects have to come together for that kind of success. He puts his weather knowledge right at the top of that and being able to pick out these good days. And so we talk about all the resources he used. These are all in the show notes. Definitely want you guys to check that out. Doesn't matter if you're just flying in Austria where he is or anywhere in the world, it'll all be totally relevant. He has a great approach to risk.
So we talk about risk management. We talk about the number one mistake that he sees that leads to accidents. This was a new one. I hadn't heard this one before. I think it's terrific. talk a lot about how to fly fast. Obviously, you got to fly fast to go to cover a huge amount of distance, and we talk about the importance of analyzing your flight post-flight. He does a lot of analyst analysis after his flights by looking at the track logs and creating avery files with the various different pilots that are in the air. Talks about the importance of bringing together a really good group, so you've got other great people to fly within the sky. So being very public about, "Hey, I think this is going to be the place to go, please come join me." Anyway, we talk about a lot; it's all super valuable.
Get out your pen and paper, uh, prepare to see a bunch of this in a book. So, without further delay, please enjoy this great talk by an incredible pilot and, uh, just great all-around dude. I really enjoyed this one, Alex Robey, Alex.
it is uh terrific to have you on the show we just had a great little talk in the in the pre-talk there before we started recording boarding. I'll bring some of that back in. Uh, fantastic to fly with you at a place that Bruce Marks, I will miss him. You know, my, my supporter in the first couple of races, and he was my flying pal for years and years and years. Anthels was always on our list. It never really worked out. Every time we came into your zone, it was, it would always OD or rain or something would, something would blow up in the Dolomites. So finally got to have a shot at it. Uh, it didn't work out for me personally at the end, actually digging into there to the Dolomites, but it did for you guys. And that was a fun day. So thanks for sharing that beautiful triangle with me. Let's start it off there.
Hey, you're more than welcome, Gavin. I'm really glad to have you on the show. I'm a big admirer of the whole Cloudbase Mayhem and all the output and inputs I get from there. So really happy to be here.
Awesome. Hey, before we get into how you just crushed X-Contest and your job and some of the things we were just talking about there before before we started, I'd love for you to just tell the audience your, you know, when you dream at night of flying, what's the, what's the one flight for you that still to this day really stands out and that'll help us understand your history a little bit more as well.
Usually, uh, when I sleep right now, it is just, uh, typically one of the latest flights I have. Uh, but this is why I do all my blogging, uh, to keep the memories alive of the past, past flights, and especially the beginnings, and maybe what is really standing out is the most impressive flight in the beginning was my first thermaling flight on my home site. I live in Austria, in Styria, and we have a little hill; it's just 400 meters above my hometown, and it's barely giving you thermals, but the first time when I was able to climb from there, and especially really gaining heights up to 2000 meters, and then meeting an eagle, that was totally overwhelming. So I was passionate about before, but this is what really then crashed me.
It made me sell my motorcycle and everything, and I got totally into flying and
What year was that, well?
That was actually, uh, 2001, okay? Although I started a little bit earlier, but, uh, these days they were really inglorious, you know? They were, we were having, I was having a friend who had already a paraglider. It was a very, very old one; it was an aldk maxi, I think, it built year around 88 or 90 or something like this. It was a parachute; it was actually a parachute, but that did not keep us from trying to fly, and we, we took off, you know, from, from rather steep, steep grassy hills and trying to, to fly down, but those were more sled rides and we were technically completely not there, uh, just trying, you, you know, to take off and sitting too early into this what was kind of called a harness
Actually, it was just a seat plate, and you know, all these, these bad things happening, you know, you're sitting down too early and you're, you're sitting then on the grass again and having a sled right down and in the fresh, fresh cow dunked grassy hill, you get all the cow down between your legs and why you let riding down. So all these, these, these bad things you do in the beginning when you don't know anything, but those were actually funny parts, and the luckily I never got hurt my whole paragliding life, I have to admit. And also these early days, yeah, they were pretty, pretty rough, but uh, I easily, or luckily, I, I did not hurt myself in these things.
We also tried with inch, that was also pretty bad. We just took a rope what we have seen in the videos, you know, there was the times prior to YouTube and so on, but we got our hands on some videos where they say we saw people, uh, pulling other gliders up, uh, with people, um, doing kind of a winch thing, and we did that also, so in the, in the flat fields. And yeah, of course, we did not know anything about it, and my, my friend was driving the car and she just drove against the wind. It was, of course, uh, then the, the ground effect we did not know either about, uh, kicked in, and then as soon as I got lifted a couple of meters, the wind was really strong, and oh, I felt such a high pressure. The rope, of course, was torn, my glider was turned, and then I went downwind, coming in at, I don't know, 60 or 70 kilometers
it was
ah the
beginnings. Yep, the beginnings. You, I...
I often, I often compare it to like going through college, you know? It's just amazing that we make it, you know? Unfortunately, some, some don't, but luckily some of us, some of us do. But okay, well, I'm going to earmark your, your, uh, approach to risk. Cause I think it's quite, no, it's not totally unique, but it's, it's, it's really something we need to talk about. I'm going to save that for a little bit later, but first tell me about your blog. Uh, you, you pointed me to it recently. You give a lot of talks and your, your blog has, you know, it's, it's, it's massive. I went through it earlier today and it's in German. So I wasn't able to enjoy it like I should, but, um, tell me about the blog. What, what is it, What are you trying to accomplish there?
Yeah. First of all, the blog started out as just keeping my memories. You know, I was – from the beginning, I was taking pictures. And I love just to keep my memories fresh because I soon found out, yeah, those memories, they vanish easily. And I want to keep the things alive. life, so I always try to do pretty close to the time when the with a nice and big outstanding flights happen to do some blog entries to keep those memories fresh, because then you can put your emotions in and, um, there are also always a lot of pictures, uh, to to remind me of the feelings I had in the past. And from that idea, uh, that started out in the year, uh, 1999, since then I'm blogging, um, about paragliding things, and this came bigger for the years and more instruction, of course, with the possibilities and my abilities to do blogs, uh, they became kind of, yeah, cross country, uh, I don't want to call it bibles, but some kind of references if you want to learn to fly a special place and you are able to understand German, somehow you can go to that blog and, by by reading a couple of those adventures or just flipping through those pictures and seeing my descriptions of what I see and what my decisions were and why did I take them, you really can then learn a lot.
It has always at its end a lessons learned compendium of all flights and actually also the flights we did together. And I think it was already the 15th or 17th time I've been to Crente. There is still, I don't know, five or six new lessons learned. And when you look at it, it adds up over time. So I've made a freely available lessons learned compendium of all my flights. They are organized by site, by weather, by the conditions we had and all these things. So was it an unstable day or a stable day and all these things? So you easily can figure out by just looking at it for half an hour and you go to a new site for you and you're already kind of prepared.
So this is the main purpose because I'm totally convinced that everybody should have free access to know everything. It's just like you do and this is why I admire your Cloudbase Mayhem show so much. It helped me so much throughout my whole becoming a better pilot that this is my little contribution really to tell the people what I know because I still do a lot of mistakes. Unfortunately, not life-risking mistakes. They are more or less always just technical, luckily just technical, but still, they are not necessary to be done. Done. So, this is why I try to to give that knowledge away to everything and spread the word, and and I get a lot of positive feedbacks from the pilots.
So, hey, this is what I aim for, yeah.
We'll include all of that, of course, in the show notes, because that's just an amazing kind of bible of of flying, and I really appreciate that you're you're doing that. We we need, you know, as much of that kind of thing is possible. And, you know, we were, before we started talking, before we started recording, I was saying how much I appreciated you coming up to me before the flight at Anthels and just giving me some really key local beta. Hey, be careful about this. Get high before you go there. You know, these are things that, you know, I often don't get, you know, much these days. People say, oh, that's Gavin. He's an ex-ops pilot. He doesn't even know anything. And, but that was, that was super helpful. It was, it was great. I still kind of I tried to do my own thing as I do and, and got slammed for it at the end, but it was, that was a, that was fun.
And it was, it was good knowledge to have. Um, you said something that kind of blew me away also before we started recording that, you know, that you kind of consider yourself still a very recreational pilot. You know, you don't even know how to do proper wing overs, which I don't believe for a second, but Hey
man, believe me, it's a shame.
It is a shame.
Well, how do you, how do you, you know, how do you win X contest? Uh, you won it in 2015, you won it in 2017. Uh, I sit, I'm an X, X contest junkie. You know, when I sit at home in sun Valley, we get very few, you know, when it's good in sun Valley, it's, it's among one of the best places to fly in the world, but unfortunately it happens very rarely. So there's a lot of nights where I have to get on X contest and go, oh my God, those guys cracked another two 90 and antholds. I mean, This April is just like pure torture for me, watching you guys send three days in a row of just huge flights. You know, when I look at those on next contest, and I look at these huge flights, you're almost always at the top. You're in the right place, and you have, you know, you have the top speed, the average speed, uh, and you know, you're flying an Enzo three.
You're flying a very fast wing. That's, that's certainly part of it, but, but it's also, you know, you're flying with a lot of really good pilots. It's in a really good place, and so I, I'm not trying to, I know that's, this is hard to answer as a humble person, which you are, but, uh, how does that work? You know, how do you fly fast? How do you pick these exceptional days? Yeah.
It's, it's pretty, pretty unspectacular because it just improves from year to year. You have to imagine me, uh, starting out on a, on a very easy glider. I was, was just flying five years, just down from my home hill, and I was happy with that. And, uh, I just figured out, uh, I don't want to go into big detail, uh, about how my whole progression went, but just focus on the, on the cross country perspective. I just figured out, uh, with my, with my job, but my limited spare time, it has to be the, the right place and the right conditions. Otherwise, you will maybe fly like a hero, and you will, don't, you will not make big distance. And somehow, I was always fascinated by that: how far can you, can you push a day?
So, uh, and key to flying far then was, then just to figure out and really kind of make sure, almost what is the best option available in my area, as I live in the eastern Alps. I'm just, I just want to limit myself to just four, four, four hours driving from, from my hometown. So that's kind of limits to the, to the South Tyrol, maybe Tyrol area where I want to go. And over the time, I really went into that in deep analysis. Of weather forecasts, and lucky us, of the the forecasting systems that we really have improved. And when you have a look at days that you consider as good, and you are in the air, you get a good feeling, which weather sites you can trust for what?
Because I don't have a single weather source to make my flying decisions; it is a couple of them, and all of them have their advantages. And some things where they are a little bit too conservative, or a little bit too aggressive in judgment, or just wrong, because they don't consider special weather, weather happenings that are going on, that are going on. So I really focused on finding the right day; this is key also for, for risk management. I'm not a pilot who just focused on, on passive safety, and, and the rest will happen by itself. I was always focused on, on being kind of a self-responsible person.
I also then started, for example, that's maybe funny, I started out on a dhv3 glider. You know, that's like an en, that's like an end CCC glider. That was my very first glider. What? Yeah, I'm not kidding, it was a dhv3. It was a pro design contest 42; it has very short lines, so it was very agile, and this is how, how I learned my paragliding. Of course, because it was cheap. But still, it made me from the beginning on taking responsibility. And I kind of feel a little bit uncomfortable by pushing that, especially in the German-spoken area, by pushing that whole passive safety thing so much.
Because it takes away the feeling that people are responsible for themselves. To just, hey, I want a wing that takes care of me. I have a totally different approach. I'd rather have a wing that allows me a lot of things to control and I don't want to give the control away to the wing and hope that it reacts nicely.
Let me ask you – I don't want to cut in here, but let me ask you something that Bill Belcourt told me. I was really second-guessing my decision for my wing choice in the last X-Offs. in 2017. And I really wanted to fly a hotter wing than I was planning on with my sponsor. And, and he said, Gavin, 95 % of the time you need performance, 5 % of the time you need safety. And I I've been reticent to say that on the podcast, because I don't want to, you know, I want, you know, this is, it's important to put out the right message to all of our listeners. And, you know, I think that, you know, some amount of passive safety, depending on your skill level, of course, Is really important, but that really gelled with me and I, I have said many, many, many times
I personally, if you have the hours and you have the skill level and you've done the SIV and you know, and you're tuned up, um, me personally, I'm a lot safer on a pretty hot two-liner than I would be on a B because of where I fly and where I go and where I take a glider, and you know, I want the performance, I want the bar, definitely.
I totally second that. And wherever I go, I tell the people, when they say, "Hey, I feel not comfortable," and they are just following this, uh, E and A, E and B, E and C kind of progression type, but I see, I fly a lot of them, and I've pretty, I fly fast. And when I come along those E and B pilots, and they get so much more collapses, and it's not just, I think, because cause of bad pilots, it's just because the principle of three liners is just different, and they are just more prone to collapse. But it's hard to get that attitude going, so before the whole abilities come, that what you have mentioned before, I think first of it is the attitude.
What type of pilot are you? What approach do you have to piloting? And to really take responsibility and initiative to fly a wing, this is the beginning of everything. And I think from there, you can derive then your progression. Of course, you have to progress from technical things and to know all that stuff. But basically, I'm not happy with that, that two-liners still are considered as some kind of always hot chips. In my opinion, they give you so much more control that I would be frightened to fly in really turbulent conditions and especially windy conditions with a three-liner that is maybe lower class.
But just because of those, like you said before, 5 % passive safety.
Would you agree – I just want to make sure we're clear in our messaging here because I totally agree. Would you agree with that? You said that you have this much greater feel on a two-liner. Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. We're flying the bees all day long. We can feel everything. We feel when the air is starting to get a little bit weird. But I would add that you definitely need the skills to fly that kind of glider. And that does take a lot of hours. I mean, I just, I wouldn't, I don't want people to hear this and just jump to a two liner without the, without the, like you said, without the knowledge, without the history, without the ability to fly that wing. And when I, I, my, my good metaphor is, is kayaking, you know, you shouldn't really kayak a class five river until you're nailing every Eddie, just without thinking about it at class four.
So, in other words, if you're flying an Enzo and you're hammering that thing, you're ready for an Enzo. But if you're flying an Enzo and you're tepid and you're scared and you're not sure how to use the bees and you're not sure how to use the bar, yeah, you need to be on a Xeno. Would you agree? Okay.
Definitely. I just want to admit everything. It's just not the feeling you have on a two-liner. It is the control abilities. I miss on the other three-liner constructions. You can't just not control, especially if you want to fly fast. A wing like you can on a two-line, it's just based on the principle of design. And actually, I was, I was paving my way when I won 2015 x contest. It was on a mentor six, but I felt much more uncomfortable, especially on high speeds, than on the xeno. On my first flight on the xeno, I knew, "Hey, this is it. This is just it." Just felt so safe, it felt so nice, and it felt just like I'm much more in control in a bigger speed range.
And like you said, especially when you have a lot of headwinds to battle against, the two, they just penetrate so well. You can stay on bar and just control everything with a beast.
You, you won the X contest in 2015 on a mentor, nope.
on a man uh sorry on a mantra six sorry I'm sorry. I was wrong. On a Mantra 6. Okay. Well,
still, that's still phenomenal. Holy cow. Okay.
It was also funny because those were the days where the Alpine flights, they were not superseded by the Brazilian flights you have to do these days. And especially with those Mantra 6, A triangle around 250, 260 kilometers was still worth something. And
you could do
those things nicely on those old E &D wings. They were nice thermaling, but it's just not comparable at all to the modern two-liners.
So when did you make the jump?
Actually, I had a Peak III before. Okay. And it was really the bulletproofest wing I ever had. It was my first two-line experience. And I was really happy, but really on full bar, especially on comps that I do occasionally. I really was not happy. And also regarding thermaling, it was just, for me, it was not easy to keep it really, especially in weak conditions, in a good thermaling average speed. So then I went to this Mantra 6, who was really a good climber. but I kind of missed then the the speed bar bulletproof feeling that I that I had on this this peak three and that totally then came back, uh, on the xeno and I was flying the xeno now for two years and actually this year when I tried a flow XC Racer, uh, that was a little bit more to to handle, a little bit hotter to handle and a little bit more workload than the xeno, but it was also climbing very well and then I thought to myself, hey, when I anyway have to deal with that more workload, why don't fly an enzo where everybody and enzo3 especially where everybody I talked to said, hey, it's such a well-behaved glider, it's just nice, you can can fly it even in the nasty conditions and it won't be bad to you and then then I tried it and I got a very old lady with 250
plus hours on it, but still I'm so happy with it because it's just always, you have always everywhere a little bit the edge with it. It's thermaling nicer, and especially the day when we met in Antalz, the next day we have been to Mayrhofen, I flew the first time in the Silatar, and there were predicted strong westerly, northwesterly winds, and they were actually really there, especially further up in the north, and we got beaten the whole time in nasty lee conditions. So, really, with strong wind, lee winds with 25, 30 kilometers plus on the lee side, so it was really, really tough to do, hey, in the glider.
I don't lie to you, it was open all the time. Of course, you have a lot of work to do, but I just dug myself self out together with Primosh Suja. I fly a lot this year, and hey, we worked ourselves out, and the glider were so well behaved. Um, it was really amazing how, in, in piloting level, uh, how narrow the gap is. I expected much more hot shipness, uh, when piloting in those nasty conditions, but actually, even there, when you, when you, of course, uh, work, uh, what has to be done with the glider, uh, they, they totally, uh, they, they are not waiting just to be, be mad to you, you know, and throw you off
No, they, they, they, they just generate lift from all kinds of rare. You're just constantly coming out, uh, at speed, and you feel confident. And yeah, they're, they're just the CCC gliders these days are amazing. They're just beautiful wings. Well, hey, I got you on a sidetrack there. Uh, bring, bring me back to how you're identifying these days. And again, folks, we'll have all these resources that Alex is talking, is going to talk about, um, what he uses to kind of identify these banger hammer talk days, uh, in the, in the show notes. But take us back to where you were. You were talking about where you, how do you identify these days and show up at Anthols on the, on the good one? Yep.
Um, I have a pretty, pretty simple approach that has developed over the years. What I do to identify great days, first of all, I don't give—I don't know if I'm supposed to did it—I don't give a shit about predictions longer than, than seven days ahead. I don't even look at weather forecasts for a longer time. Things get interesting for me especially five, two days ahead. And there, I really want to point out the perfect service we have in the Alps here, that's called soaring meteo.ch. Maybe are you anyway familiar with that already from the X-Alps?
yeah exactly yeah
Hey, and it gives you, you know, it's the GFS model. It's maybe not very precise, but it gives you a very fast look at, at the day's quality, uh, I think one week ahead. And they have a nice easy coloring scheme, maybe it... It takes still some hours to get into that, how they judge the paragliding quality of those days. Then you have a good initial idea, hey, could there be a nice day ahead or not? And then, of course, with the ever-expanding abilities of Windy, you get a lot of those various other Meteor models you can compare with. And then I really start to look at what kind of air mass is coming and especially what kind of cloud cover can we expect there.
That's really where they stand out. I also love the meteograms of MeteoBlue. They are also very nice because you see how the cloud base will be, how thick the clouds can come, is there precipitation to be expected. And these are the things I roughly have on the radar. for the for the five days or three days, and then when it really starts to look good, then there comes the the, especially for my area, the Austrian Meteorology Institute has a really nice um clouding overcasting forecast and the raincoat forecast, uh, that's pretty pretty accurate. And what's also an important aspect is when we have especially southerly conditions, you want to to make sure you have the the dust forecast in mind, because sometimes those video models, they don't get the dust.
We get a lot of dust from from Sahara when we have southerly winds, and they can make this, I completely overcast and dead. and some of those weather models, they just don't consider that, so uh, how
Do you get that, uh?
If there is a Greek site, it's called Skiron, or maybe we really put it down in the show notes. Yeah, that considers that because, you know, the thermal index would be really nice, and the winds are nice, and you wonder, "Hey, how? Where is that overcastiness coming from?" And it's just dampening so much of the solar energy, uh, that we've had already some years ago, a couple of days, uh, where we stood on those, uh, on the mountains and just did not know what happens, what's going on, and the condensation, you know, but what you have with a very fine dust that totally then makes the the sky overcast and takes away the the thermal energy. So this is also something I always check, you know, it's it's it's very fast.
Uh-huh. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it, uh, but with the northerly winds we have had this year throughout uh the season uh there were never any But still something just to make sure, because this also can influence that I make a decision to go flying or not. And then on one of the days ahead, one day ahead, I just look at the outdoor control. There is the thermal quality very well judged by these. And you get the cloud base. You get a good idea how high the cloud base can be. And if there is overdevelopment, and you can see about all the three levels of clouds very nicely, yep. And again, of course, until the end, it's called windy.
And I want to point out that meteo parapont is something that I really use if it's a humid day for a local prediction of thunderstorms. So, you know, when you have a high humid, highly humid day, you know, you—it's, it's kind of a lucky game where maybe thunderstorms will happen or not. Of course, there is a tendency where they are more often, but I really started to trust in prometeo parapont about those, those rather precise locations or areas where the thunderstorms will then really be and uh and
You're still, you're still totally willing to fly on those days? It's more just, you know, that you, you'll try to pick a triangle that can work around something like that, or is that just a day I'm not going exactly
And this is, for example, where I did not append a second day to our first Antwoords flight because I saw the the overdevelopment happening, although a couple of friends were still going for that day to Antwoords, and I say I told them, "Hey guys, today was the good day. Tomorrow is going to be an development." And this is why I said, "Okay, it's just pointless to fly around a couple of hours and then just being disappointed that then the overdevelopment happens." So we we went up to the northern side. What
model, you know, in the in the states we use XCSkies a lot, which is kind of of like medio blue or medio parapente, um, in the in the past, um, it has been very inaccurate in Europe because they're in Europe, he only had GFS, but now he has, uh, the ECWF, ECMWF, and the ICON model, um, which, which models are you really putting more weight in these?
days, uh, I've totally forgot forgot to mention XCSkies. It was there from the beginning and I still use it, and especially when you, when you look at the blog entries, these are the screenshots I take, and it's really a basis for decision because I like the, the low wind they always forecast, because sometimes when I look at the other wind forecasts, you maybe would not go flying because you know they always say nasty something, and the winds, a wind erodes the thermals. So I still with the old GFS model, I still love the XCSkies. First of it all, it costs almost nothing for what you get. You get the winds in a very nice, uh, I think 300 meter level layer, and they, they are averaged, and this is what I'm anyway mostly, um, interested in.
What is the average wind? Because I know whenever there is, uh, there is, there's a spine that is then blown over from the back. There will be some leak conditions there and everything. But still, getting an idea of the overall wind and how it develops. XC Sky is totally one of the main, especially when it comes to wind decisions, one of the main resources I use.
Interesting. Alex, how much of your success do you credit to learning the weather? 60%, I'd say.
Wow, really? Definitely. Definitely. Because it's just imagine you are on the wrong hill on the perfect day. You don't get those hours. And the first ingredient is to be on the right mountain on the right takeoff. Because from there, you can make sure that you have a lot of hours you can learn from. Just imagine, you, you take off and you have to, you, you're forced to land after one hour or two hours. You lack those eight hours of experience that you still could fly from, from another nice mountain. So this is, uh, totally, totally key to, to flying big is just the weather and, of course, for the safety, uh, it's, I cannot point it out more.
Um, I would not dare to fly those hot wings with my abilities of flying. Um, if conditions are just, just wild like, like you guys do, I could never imagine to fly myself or take part in the, in the X contest, uh, sorry, in the X helps I did in 2003, in the very first edition as a supporter of an Austrian team member. But still, uh, my abilities, although even, yeah, almost, uh, 18 years later, they are far from being there to feel able to, to cope with, with all these, these conditions because I would just shit my pants, you know, I just don't Can't do it, and I'm not even, not willing, because, uh, it's just too wild for me, way too wild, I think.
This is an important point because I, you know, one of the—a lot of the feedback I get from listeners is like, "Hey, you know, I—I really dig, you know, that you're talking to these people like Chrigel, but I can't be Chrigel. I can't emulate Chrigel. I'll never be Chrigel. I can't get 300 hours a year." You know, I actually really like when you talk to, you know, the weekend warriors, the people that are, you know, that are getting after it as much as they can, considering life, job, kids, you know, all the things that most people have to consider. You know, I'm not putting you in the weekend warrior category. We chased it hard in the middle of the week recently, but you are pretty constrained. Talk about your job. Talk about how you've approached flying when you've got to be really choosy.
Absolutely. In my old job, I was forced in a kind of an all-inclusive contract. This means whatever you do, you cannot get any second of leisure time added. It so, this is the main reason why I also got really picky about when to to take off vacation, as you have mentioned before. Of course, I have a family, um, I have to take care of, and I want to want to balance that out all very nicely. So I have just limited resources in days; this means typically 10 days per year flying, because three weeks is family vacation, so I want to spend that wisely. And those constraints, they they kind of force you to to also be picky about those days, because when I already take a day off, I want to really make sure that I that I max out these days, and the flying experience is there are
you doing anything in particular when you when you only have you know those days you're you're getting you know a lot of hours because you're having eight eight, nine, 10, 11 hour flights. But with these long gaps, what are you doing, you know, the night before, three days before the day of, you know, just to make sure, I mean, I often just, I don't feel very tuned up when I fly like that. You know, if I haven't flown in a couple of weeks, then, you know, the first hour I'm kind of nervous and I'm thinking more about my, where my reserve handle is. And, you know, classically, because it's me, you know, I'll have forgotten something and I won't have my P tube or, you know, whatever, something kind of critical that you even reminded me that day on WhatsApp, which I really appreciated like, Hey man, prepare for a 10 hour flight.
We want to be in the air a long time. And, uh, you know, that really helps, but what, what can you relate to those who, you know, are, are in your situation? Because I find it, I find it hard to tune up when there's big breaks.
Maybe Gavin, you you go flying on the wrong days because normally when I, when I'm, I'm seeing a good day coming, the that's the point where the total passion and overwhelmedness gets gets in, you know? And especially when we hike up those those mountains, this is when the the passion kicks in. And when you have a nice day to fly, uh, typically when you, when you start so early for a cross country flight, like, like you have to if you want to go far, the conditions anyway start out so smoothly, you know? And you have then the time to make yourself comfortable. And typically, if you know your gear kind of well and you have a couple of hours already head on it, usually the first mild hours or one and a half hours, they are really to to get yourself comfortable because typically, typically, when you start early, conditions are weak.
You have to milk something. You have to be really sensitive how much bar you pull. And there is enough time to get myself comfortable, even if there is a gap of one month. That is totally usual in my flying. Because like we have had this year, there was always one month gap between the big flights. And as I said before, if I don't, if I cannot do big flights, I don't have the time to just make smaller ones. So this is totally enough to get myself comfortable and to really, yeah, get myself into tune to fly big.
How do you, one of the, one of the questions I get all the time in emails from listeners is they go, Hey, you know, I can make it three hours or I can make it five hours, but I, I just, you know, I kind of bonk or I lose it or I lose focus. focus, um, how, you know, how do I get over the hump? And my answer is, is always been, you know, you, we forget as pilots that this is, you know, you need to physically train and, you know, because I trained for the X ops and that kind of thing. I, I don't, you know, I'll, I'll suffer from a lack of focus at some point in the flight and have to rein it back in. That's usually just water and food. But, um, but I, I often say, listen, it's physical training, But are you doing anything in particular or special, uh, to prepare beyond the mental side?
And it's really mostly mental, isn't it? But, uh, to for these long flights, because you know, when I look at your top five flights this year, they're, they're monsters. They're huge. How? Just bang them out. I'm gonna, I'm gonna embarrass you. What are your top five flights right now?
um the top flight five flights right now is I think three, 290, whatever, just not 300 this year. And I think it is – the weakest one is a 260. Okay, folks. So that's
– he's talking FAIs there, of course. So yeah, okay. So your weakest one is 260 FAI. Oh, boy. There's got a lot of listeners in the US that are beating their fists against the wall right now. Yeah. We just don't have the terrain to do that.
Yeah, we can elaborate on that, how this worked. As I told you at the beginning, it just developed over the years, and I can give you a nice recipe how to get there, how it just must happen like that. Yes, please. There is no alternative.
Before you do, answer the first question, and then we'll go to your recipe.
The first question, of course, everything comes, again, from a set goal. I'm a totally mental person. I'm an engineer, and I'm totally goal-oriented. This means, what do I want to happen? I want to make it sure that if you have two good days after each other, I want to be able to hike up the Krente that is almost two hours with a 25 to 30 kilo backpack. I want to fly each day 12 hours and I want to make sure that I don't get myself into risk because I'm tired or something like this. So this is the final end scenario that I want to have happening. So from that, I derive, what do I have to do to to achieve that?
So I go into the gym two or three times a week, usually listening to your podcasts, actually get all the mental side in parallel, the full overdose of knowledge, you know, and and doing uh all some physical training, although I do not make a hard workout, I just make a kind of a kind of a core body strengthening That's what you actually really need. When I go there, I don't do endurance training, so big and lucky me, I'm not a smoker, so and I have a good, good base physiology, and I don't have to carry extra weight because I'm rather a slim person anyway. But still, I want to make sure that, especially the areas you need and the the core, uh, the core muscles, that they are strong, that you don't get sore shoulders because you're pushing the bar a lot, you're carrying, having equipment always resting on your shoulders.
You want to make sure that you don't have shoulder problems. You also want to make sure you have enough, uh, power in your arms to get those b handles where that you're currently actually from a 10 or 11 hours flight, I'm um whatever, whatever, maybe not – when I'm not thermaling, I'm not on the bees, but actually I'm always on glide. I'm on the bees and doing something typically. Maybe not always necessary, but it just makes me feel comfortable when I go full bar. So I just want to make sure that those things, those muscle groups you need during flying, they don't get sore on a, let's say, 20 hours flying and four hours hiking event. So this is from the physical side, what I do.
Then what really helps me, I also get to hear it often from my wife that I'm not normal.
None of us are normal, Alec.
Maybe my wife thinks it's really okay. okay, I'm typically not normal because I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to analysis and finding things out. You also mentioned you are kind of an ex-contest addict. I also, especially my preparation starts after the flights I've done, not so much before the flight's happening. It's always kind of looking what has happened there when I was flying on a distance where some other pilots have been. Maybe have they have some some better areas where they were finding nicer lines or climbing better, or even new thermal trigger points. Um, so this is something I really dig into because I love it so much, you know?
The whole analysis thing, maybe for other people, oh, they just want to go fly, and this might sound dry stuff, but especially with with every system you have really nice 3D animations, animations, uh, you have with a Naviter CU software, you have the options to get yourself some some waypoints there and where the thermal triggers are, and all these things I love to do in advance to to develop a good feeling. Also, what I do is I write myself for each takeoff spot, I write myself down kind of a guide. This means I take screenshots, and that's also one of the reasons I do so many photos during flying and a lot of videos, uh, to to really see where the clouds have been, where the triggers were, what were the conditions like, and I always write those things down, and then
Coming back to what you said before, this is then the preparation I do, especially on a on a triangle, even if I was flying there already 10 times. Hey, I flip over those pages that have aggregated it over the years with all the knowledge and just to make sure, hey, I don't waste time by flying around because I really want to be be efficient because I love efficiency and I enjoy it actually so much when I think, hey, watch the sky, there almost no thermaling, it really makes me makes me happy. And this also helps them not to get exhausted. Coming back to those having the two days ability to fly there, you need just also mental recreational things, and this is then again where my passion about the the whole moment kicks in so much because, hey, when you are there at 3,800 or 4,000 plus meters and you're thermaling and just thinking, hey, where to go there?
You look at the landscape and it's just so overwhelming each time. Uh, this is what what what relieves my stress than also completely okay. And when you are established in a thermal, hey, for me that's just relaxing. There is not any any stressy thing anymore because everything is set, and even if the next decision where to go is set, hey, I just circle there for a couple of minutes and that totally gets myself down, uh, with with a stress level again that I'm really prepared to for the next maybe challenging, uh, passage I come across.
When you're, when you're analyzing these tracks and you sent me those great Avery files, uh, that, you know, you kind of put it together in two shots, which I have done quite extensively with the last couple of X-Alps, you know, you always get the track logs afterwards and it's just fascinating. It's great to watch because you go, Oh, well that's, that's a place where I spent way too much time, you know, Compared to Chrigel or somebody else, um, but how do you do? Are you, are you also looking at Skyways, or are you building all this knowledge from your own flights and people you've flown with? Because I, I also know that Skyways can be a little bit too much.
Skyways is totally irrelevant for me, because it covers just all tracks. It's not selective; I just want to always pick out the good lines. Don't get distracted by, by anybody else's flights, you know, recreational flights. So, Skyways, for me, is not a tool, not a tool. I look at it at all. It is just, uh, always, uh, picking out really the, the nice days, because I anyway expect that I go there flying on a similarly nice day, maybe a different season, or maybe a different time in year, but still similar. And then I just pick out those, those, those really good days, like I celebrated my premier flight from Zillertal. I never was there; I take the triangles, the big one from Valde Tom, and I really try to figure them out, and how the, the conditions were those days.
And then, uh, then just see how he fimmeled, where he took his glides, and all these things. So, I totally orient myself on the good flights, so not even the average ones, okay?
So when you went to the Zillertal the day after we flew Anthals, did you have kind of waypoints in from Thomas's flights, you know, already in your flight computer? You know, like, okay, well, let's he went whatever, you know, 290, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kind of emulate basically that, or do you leave it pretty open so you can kind of fly the sky? No,
When I go there the first time, I'm pretty technical, okay? Put on even some trigger points. Actually, it gives me just a feeling of safety in flight. I unfortunately are going somewhere, but I never, I never look at them, but it gives me just a good feeling that in case I would need it, I have it. But there's a side effect of the whole preparation thing; you really, uh, you really intensify, uh, the flight experience before by looking at those Avery animations and having the CU software at hand, I'm really able to get myself a good imagination of how it would be, which lines work, which lines maybe not or just have not been flown before. So I rather stick on the elaborated routes.
So if I don't get washed down by any Lee, I really try to stick those lines where the good days have been flown on.
Tell me about two things. things, your gear, what are you flying, and why? And then, on those big flights, do you have any kind of check-in moments for water, for food, for presence of mind? You know, any, any kind of telltales that you know, like Revis, my support in the X-Hops, he has this great one where, you know, if he gets to a launch and three things, you know, he, before he launches, he's, you know, forgotten or missed three things. And these are not major things. These could be like, you know, your string on your phone or whatever, you know, like little things. That's just like a call to attention for him. Oh, I might be a little tired.
I might not have had enough coffee. You know, the, the, like, this is a heads up, you know, maybe this isn't my day. Do you have any kind of, so too many any questions but folks so gear gear and why um and then do you have any kind of you know what what's in your what's in your flight deck okay uh
you're starting out with a gear, yeah? I right now feel comfortable with my X-rated seven harness and, uh, wing-wise, um, I upgraded this year from a Xeno that I've flown two years before to an Enzo three, and I'm really, really happy and, and really surprised what the Ozone's got out there for us pilots to enjoy. It's just, for me, really comfortable. And especially after the Zillertar flight, it was really a lot of beating we have taken there. I'm really confident that I can pilot it, although I have no experience big time with SIVs or any other things. Regarding preparation before the takeoff.
Wait a minute. What instruments, too? What do you, what do you have on your flight deck, I
Recently bought a brand new XC Racer, okay, with a flarm, and I really love it because it has almost no, um, no lag in in feedback. But I flew once with just that little thing and I was totally not able to to to get them established if I'm right now in a good thermal or not. So I do need a second vario too, so I fly with an audi 4, okay? This is also for my navigation purposes, and I figured it out having the the XC Racer in a silent mode or in a quiet mode beside my ear and having the audi in front. Those two two baryotones, they give me the perfect ability to really read the skies much better and thermal more efficiently.
So you've left, this is interesting to me because I only fly the XC Racer unless I'm in a comp and then I'll add my Flytech 6030 or something, you know, just because I've always loved that one. But what I had to do with the XC Racer was dampen it. So it was more like an averager rather than immediate, but you've left yours immediately because I had the same thing the first time I went out and it was immediate. I just couldn't find a quarter save my life. It was like, well, it's there. Oh no shit. And so, but once I dampened it and it really kind of emulates, I just... it took me a while. I actually got it from, from a world cup pilot. He gave me his configuration settings. Then now I just, I just use it and I love it. But um, so you're using it really out of the box, so it's just, so it's just, of course I adjusted
the tone yeah
the tone
I totally customized myself. I have, uh, there is no gap between, uh, rising air and sinking air, so I always get the feedback there. And, um, the thing is just I left it, uh, with almost zero dampening effect to really, uh, in disorganized thermals, I at least I think I have a much better understanding. And when you, when you actually see my videos that I always do, uh, and I put out on my Vimeo channel, uh, you can then hear, uh, the difference. And the very, it is, it is just a huge difference when you are already in, in sinking air. Told by the XC Racer, uh, your averager on the Audi still, of course, tells you, "Hey, you're doing still quite fine," but actually, it's just not bad.
So I find it, you have to get used to it, and it took me one or two flights to really, to, to really combine those mentally, those two types of information. But it really helps me to climb better, I'm sure.
Interesting. Cool. Okay. So sorry, I cut you off again. So keep going with what's in your flight deck.
And then, of course, also based on your recommendations, I got a Delorme inReach, the old one, just in case. And recently, as I'm also an avid competition flyer in my area, and our competition league, the Austrian Competition League, has said you have to have a Flymaster tracker. I love that device because it's really easy to handle; you just switch it on, you put it in the back side of your gear, and you land, you turn it off, and even the track logs that get uploaded immediately to all your your X-Contest, XC.DHV, and all those online contests you want to have. And especially your friends at home, they really can enjoy your flying in 3D.
Hey, man, I love their 3D environment. The coverage is just really cool. So I really say, hey, it's just a perfect piece of kit. And in totally, it gets completed by a, uh, a Broiniger, a Competino Plus very, because I just love its readability. I still look at it, uh, for compass and for speed, because the readability, at least with my, my sunglasses, of the audi and the cockpit, the angle that the X-rated 7 gives you, it's just not, not really perfect. I hardly can, can read it, so I'm still with the old standard Competino Plus screen. I really love that for its, its clear readability, and that's pretty much my flight deck.
I don't do anything with tablets yet because of the same readability issue.
Okay, and how much are you drinking? How much are you eating? What do you—what do you have on board for that kind of thing? Um...
It's usually just some kind of muesli bars that I eat throughout the whole day, and I have, uh, yeah, backpack with with electrolyte, uh, drinking. I figured out if you're just drinking water, it just, you just pee it out without giving you the necessary minerals. So, um, I have an electrolute, enriched water, and I typically drink two liters. And I'm totally not one of those people being able to fly a big distance without peeing a lot. It's just totally not possible for me, especially in the beginning, in the first couple of hours. And still, it helps me just to drink a lot more because I don't have to think about that.
It just works fine with the XCP.
Great. I love it.
What was the second part I had? Okay, yeah. Preparation. Yeah, preparation.
I'm for sure, all of my old friends, I'm the type of guy that takes the longest time. I have a lot of itsy and bitsy here and there to get myself ready. I'm not the type of guy who reaches a mountain and 10, 15 minutes later, he's airborne. I'm totally not. So my preparation actually before takeoff starts with a decision when I hike up the mountain because I know it takes time for me. You know, there is a tape here and there is a radio connector there. Then they have to connect the XCP. Then I have to make sure that the lines, they are not somewhat knotted and all these things. And the key for me is just to have time. and even if maybe Primosh or some other guys, they have already taken off and it is already stressful because I see it's working, they are climbing out there.
Okay, I say, "Hey, whatever I do, I take rather five times, uh, five minutes more before takeoff just to make sure that everything is perfect and everything is in its place." Then I figure out in there, "Hey, I forgot to close my air fairing, okay? Or I forgot to to attach my XCP really correctly, or these type of things, are to close the buckles." So no matter which stressful situation there is and thermal activity has already kicked in, I always take my time there because I know usually I, I can catch up somehow, how and when they, when they are gone. Okay, uh, yeah, it is like this, but actually I start really early and and I know I take long and knowledge again is key, so I try to to just be right.
Like we have met on the anthills day, I was way up there before you and I got up out of the bed, uh, just, uh, yeah, half an hour, one hour earlier just to have a really relaxed and and really easy walk up and and, oh, hey, I'm there at maybe even before 8 a.m. at the takeoff, so I really have my time, I can have nice chat there, I can eat enough and and do all my toilet and all these things, uh, to just to really then, um, yeah, be ready. And I would really be pissed at myself if I forgot anything. This is really, it's just for those, you know, I just fly typically less than 10 times a a year, okay? So and I could really not, I would really be mad at myself if I then fuck up something on those days, hold
On a second, you're going out maybe 10 days a year? Are you serious? Uh, 10 days...
A year for XC flying, if you take away the competition flying, and then I also go just competition flying when it's really good days. Yep, this is where I just joined two tasks this year, uh, but actually, um, yep, that's it. And even on the on those those the first wins, uh, on X contests, uh, this was a year in total with the tandem flights I did with my family and, uh, the whole XC flights, it's I just had 16 flights the whole year, but those flights are long flights, so I have the hours 16.
Flights 160 hours, that is fantastic. Okay, tell me more. You know, preparation, you called it recipe too. Tell me more about your recipe, um...
I have, uh, especially, um, for, for preparation at home, um, what I have is kind of a checklist. Again, I would really don't want that feeling that I, I forgot something, so, so part of the recipe before flight is just to have kind of a checklist, not to forget anything, not to forget my bananas or to forget something, an ex-CP or something like this. So this is what's kind of the recipe from a technical side. And otherwise, it's just what recently is more and more focused is really to gather good people around you. So, one part of the recipe is, hey, to tell the guys that I fly together with, which have a similar level.
Hey guys, what do you think about the next days? We should go. Do you have time? And all these things. So, part of the recipe is also to together people to fly with. It's because it's more fun and it's just so much more efficient. So, this is throughout the last years what has developed, because in my former paraglider club, they were also, hey, cool guys and funny guys, but they were just totally not into flying big distances. And even if they were, they, they were not on the similar wing, not having the similar possibilities and options. So, I was always flying at the end if I was flying alone. And throughout the, the last years, this just really has, has, has improved because of my whole flying has improved because I was gathering with similar pilots with similar skills.
And yeah, I love it.
Yeah, I mean, then you've got mentors and you've got all those targets in the air to learn from. I mean, that's why comps are so valuable. You learn so much more when there's other people around you.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Alex, your wife, let's get back to what she said, that you're kind of an unusual person. What do you mean by that? And what does she mean by that? And what are your kind of – let's talk more about how you've built up this success in these huge flights.
Yeah, I'm a total paragliding nerd. I just love the possibility we have there to fly completely silent through that with just natural resources. So I'm totally addicted to the principle of flying with a paraglider. So I'm totally a nerd on that.
What does that mean, being a nerd on it? Let's dig into that.
I suck up everything that is kind of a resource of paragliding. So, for example, if somebody writes a book, Flying Wrecks for Glory, or like Maxim put out this brand new book, I just read them all. And I just, you know, when I sit on the toilet and I have nothing to do because it's anyway almost most of the time bad weather. I just get myself in the headspace of flying and thinking and training my analytical possibilities. So this is what I mean with being just a nerd. I just suck up everything I'm interested in and everything that's related to flying and especially how I can myself improve to fly better because I love just efficiency.
It's just part of me. Second thing is, uh, I also love the the panorama. So, I mean, you can see I do a lot of videos, especially the my season wrap-ups. They are, they are highly recognized the in, at least in the German-spoken zine, uh, where I make a wrap-up of the best moments of all my flights of the the last year and, uh, I just there, you can also see the the passion for panorama. And I even if I love to fly fly fast and I love to fly fishing, I always take my time, hey, to take out, if it's a great moment, I take out the camera and then I then I even speak to the camera to to keep those moments alive. Now, it's a difficult decision, or how do I feel right now?
And it just makes it so so vivid and it's, uh, giving me really a a possibility to to see those, uh, other to to get those memories. fresh back again, and last thing I came up with is just to surround myself, of course, with the right people. You don't want those people around you, do you? Really think it's a nice day? Oh, do you really want to drive four hours? Oh man, it's everything is such an effort. Hey, for me, that's totally no, uh, no discussion, because it's just so rewarding. Because if you have a nice flight for 10 hours, it is such an intense, um, adventure. You, you land there, you, you're, you're still stoked for the next two or three days.
When I was motorcycling, I also enjoyed it, but the feeling just lasted a couple of hours. When you had a nice flight, you know, you, you still, I think, look dumb for the next two or three days because you're still so, so flashed with all the thing and saying insanity, um, that happened, um... point is also, yeah, maybe the curiosity I have, I always want to see what, what's, what's going on out front, if it's possible to go there and if it's possible to maybe take this route. So the, the curiosity is something that I also contribute a lot of my motivation to, uh, and also that things are complicated, I don't get, uh, don't get discouraged courage when things are complicated.
Actually, I love it, you know, it's all those kind of natural riddles you have there, uh, when you, when you go and fly, and it's just always, uh, the, the riddle kind of against and with nature, how far can I go? That's really something that I love, and optimizing that aspect is really something that I, I really love, and the ability to, to, to, to, to also identify the great days, I think it's what really makes them the X contest, uh, final, uh, overall scoring good to always be, be on the right spot is something, uh, that's, that's for sure, um, just key, and like we, we said before, you know, with the mental training and having those the, the The wish that I am able to fly two hours, two consecutive days, flying 10 or 11 hours,
it's just something, some core desire from me to really fly the long as possible. I really want to be the last one to land. And if I'm fast enough, be the first one to take off. Stretch the bay. Yep, really, to squeeze out every minute. And then as a result, you typically get long distances. Alex,
what is it about engineers that make, I've asked this question before and you've listened to the podcast and heard me ask this, but I consistently run into engineers who are pilots and they tend to be really good pilots. What is it about your profession that is such a good mix with paragliding? I
think engineers are just some kind of always interested. Interested in things in an analytical way. And they are used to getting the questions, why is that? Or how far can I go? Or what can I do? All these things are typically for an engineer because you are confronted with these types of challenges all the time. So you have a problem and it's up to you to solve it. And that's actually what you do. When you, when you fly across grant, you know you have the conditions, you cannot see anything. You can't just guess all the time; you sometimes get yourself into nasty places. Nobody's there to help you out; it's totally up to you. And engineers are typically rather used to that, that they can do it on their own.
When you are used to working teams and people, or maybe in social stuff, you can share the responsibility, or you can delegate something to, to, to anybody. But you actually, on the flight, you cannot do that. It's just always you. You alone, you have to do everything. You're responsible for everything. So this is why when you're totally used to it and it's second nature for you, it's much easier for you to become a good cross country flyer. hmm
Alex, you said that you know, maybe 60% of your success you put down to all the time you've spent on learning these weather models and being able to identify the best days, that also reduces a lot of your risk, which reduces a lot of your anxiety in the air. And you know, you're flying these really, you know, we call them hammer talk days, uh, but how much would you put on, you know, just the motivation of X contest, whether that's either to win it or as you've done twice, which is amazing, or to just, you know, push in the 300 FAI envelope and beyond. And how much would you put to local knowledge that your, your time is limited to you to kind of this area of Austria and the Tyrol and times you know like really getting to know a
place. Yep, so it's—I would say it's even 50/50, of course, to to see what's possible or what others have really accomplished is is really, really inspiring for me. And so I want to see how they, how they do it, uh, what do they do? So the whole, uh, learning aspect, especially the resource effects count, is just the best thing I think that happened to to the sport at all. And then, of course, uh, like I told you before, um, I make my write-ups, I make my blog entries, and all these things. So really learning from that, from your own experiences, you can compare what others have done, and you when you merge those two areas of knowledge, that then really helps.
Then that efficiency can kick in because the first time when you, you maybe are flying with locally unexperienced people too. You are just not efficient. You take maybe a climb because you just don't know that the big bummer is out there to climb there. You are just not as efficient. Of course. So this is also one of the very simple goals I have each year, just to fly better than the year before. And this is actually what, what made me then, uh, also coming out on top of the ex-con artist, it was just a natural evolution. We're just trying to, to make less mistakes than the last time and make from maybe 80 per 80 mistakes just 70 anymore, and coming down to making at least not the same mistakes again.
And then somehow it narrows down, and this is why I also was giving you those advices, because those are the typical beginner advices when you're fresh to the, to the, the kente triangle. It's a very easy triangle, but you have, uh, two to three maybe nasty places. And if you know these, hey, you would just have a great flight. And this is just really that what makes the really big distances, like we have seen in the Zilladar, we just did not know that. Then the last lag on the main alpine ridge would be said so easy. Uh, we thought, "Wow, it's maybe pretty nasty," but then in the aftermath, we found out, "Hey man, we could have easily done the turn point down on the main alpine ridge and would have served the skies still at home, and would have had on the first time there a 270 closed fa triangle, but you just don't know this the first time.
And just because other people, you also see the guys who have flown it there, even while the Tom, uh, who's a very excellent pilot, uh, he doesn't fly 300 kilometers there when he's there the first time. Sure, you have to work it out for yourself. You can make great, uh, preparation there, but still, it's just up to you to really then do it and repeat it and analyze it. And then you get better and better and push the mark out five percent more if the data allows, of course, uh, each time. And that makes it actually even more fun because you, you can go maybe lower because you know it still works and don't have to waste your, your time there. And all this you get just from flying it again and again, Alex.
You, you mentioned risk management is a big part of your own approach to paragliding, and I also understand this is a big part of your talks. Tell me about risk management.
The risk management is, is really maybe the, the core part of the talks I give, uh, because we know all the area and we even, I have it still, there are some areas where I get a little bit scared, uh, where I'm really nervous about conditions, can I handle them? And behind of it all is, most of the times, it's just a kind of an uncertainty, uh, I would call it, you know, maybe it's a new terrain I fly in, um, or it is a new wind situation. Everything is not so, not so easy to handle anymore. And this is where I want to give everybody the advice, hey, take yourself some, some systematic. I mean, at least that's, that's my key, how, how I approach it.
So, how do I, how do I get rid of, of that fear? I have a very, very simple approach that I, I always keep, uh, the beauty in mind, you know, the beauty of the moments. Hey, what, what I do there, that really helps me to, to, to reduce, uh, the, the level of stress that I have. And second, very important thing is, just maybe conditions really turn bad and I overlooked something in the forecast. So, it's very important to really fight, focus, or figure out, um, is it just shitty area I'm currently in, or is the day turning bad? Because if it's a shitty area, I can say, hey, okay, this is just happening for a limited amount of time, I will work myself out, it's nasty, but I can do it.
So that, really, that you don't say, hey, okay, I throw my nerves and I get to land. So, you really have to assess the situation you're currently in. Is it going to be everywhere like, like this, or is it ahead, is it better looking? And what also helps to reduce, uh, stress is maybe some, to, to, to connect yourself, uh, via radio with, with like-minded fans. You don't want to have those, those kind of, uh, yeah, you call it in your blogs, always, the ground sack crowd. I love that, that, that name for it, to really say, hey, how, how do you feel, uh, what, what is your thermal, uh, and to really surround yourself also on the radio, because maybe it is just you that does not feel well.
And that also can, can help you to overcome these, these bad kind of, of feelings. So, what I then typically do when I have a lot of stress, I, I reduce my speed a little bit, okay? So, I back off the bar a little bit. And you have to really try to dissect the fear that you have. Is it really because of risk you're currently facing, or is it just some mental thing that, uh, that you don't just feel capable of to handle right now? Because then again, uh, I can, when I find out that it's just fear, I have, I have some, some breathing technique that works for me pretty well. So, take really some, just deep breath, and that really gets my, my headspace really down to, to the facts.
That really there is... okay, there is no risk. I am high, okay? Thermals are disorganized. This thermal land, but actually there is no risk because I have a 1500 meter ground clearance, and maybe ahead, it's... it's gonna be, uh, gonna be better again. I
Really like Nick Neynens, he has a—he has a good one for this. He always thinks to himself, "You know, what would this look like from the ground?" You know, like if you're—if you're just on the ground, if you look up and there's a glider 1500 meters over, doesn't look that radical, you know? Even if—even if you're doing acro, it doesn't look that radical. And then the other one is, you know, just—you know, imagine what it's like with your vario off. You know, if you—or just turn it off for a little bit, and suddenly things don't—things don't sound that wound up when your vario is not screeching out. You know, it's kind of like, "Huh, it's not that bad." Yeah.
Actually, yeah, perfect. I totally second that. And for the, for the risk management, actually, it's, it's always important to, to not get your mind, uh, get control over your, your feelings, because you have to always, uh, what I give always in the speeches in big detail is, is the Swiss cheese model. You know that, you really, there has to happen really a lot in our sport in order that, that something goes wrong. You have the, the wind and weather aspects, you have your, your material aspects, you have your abilities, and you have your mental, uh, current state of mind. And if, even if that all does not really work out, you, you still have luck, you know?
So it's always a lot of things that really have to happen that you have really a problem, and that usually helps. It helps to reduce the risk to what it is.
Love it. Love it. Alex, do you ever, with your kind of analytical engineering mind and all the preparation you do and the studying and post-analysis and flights, you sound like you're always ready. Have you found that when you show up at a site, that's a day you don't have it?
Never. Never. Uh, not not a single time I can remember. Maybe I forced my brain to to hide that out somehow, but actually never, because uh, as I said, it is always the most important thing to go flying on a nice day. Yeah, then you, you know, don't have those frustrating moments if you go rarely flying like me, maybe once or twice a month throughout the season. That is, it's actually anyway just four or five months for me.
When you just go flying on nice days, you don't have those frustrating moments because conditions are always nice. And the level of skill I have is then totally sufficient for the day. So what could make that day bad? It could just be minor or short-term things. And just knowing that then really totally never gets me into that kind of headspace where I talk myself down. or, uh, I see myself forced to land is always when I, when I'm forced to land, it's always because I misjudged some, some situation, uh, where no thermals were anymore. But I did not give up because of anxiety or being scared or something like this, never ever I
think that's super critical, man, and that's one of the greatest things you've said. You know, go
flying on nice days, yeah, it's a simple recipe.
I think that's so smart. And then there's like, you said, there's no reason to be scared. Then there's also no reason to have an accident. Then you're flying in good weather, correct?
and it's always wind, always, you know, you even if, if it's thermals are weak or whatever, maybe strong, uh, it is, most of it, it's always the wind. And you, as long as you have that in mind, you're always on a safe side. I'm totally convinced of that; I'm a living proof. I have never ever hurt myself in paragliding. I was sitting on trees two times already, but I never got got hurt
There are those that will
It was one time with a tandem. I was making my tandem certificate, and it was just, uh, amazing. It was one of my, my last flights I did with another paragliding pilot to get my tandem license, and we were flying there, and it was, it was a spot in the Western Austrian in for a bag in chief is, but typically in the afternoon hours, the kicks in the northerly wind, and we were flying there. We were thermaling and out of nothing. I lost the whole tandem wing under me, luckily above a tree line, but then just shortly after, we were sitting on that very tree and hugging, hugging, uh, that the tree branches, uh, not to fall down, and we looked at each other and said, "Hey man, how could that happen?" Luckily, completely uninjured, but you know, it's always a little bit bad thing too.
Last question, I'm tempted to end it on that, but we—we touched on this before, we—before we opened in the show when we were just chatting, and I wanted to ask you because you—you've been at this game quite a long time. What's the number one thing you see that leads people to getting hurt? You know, we've both seen way too many accidents, we talked about it a little bit, and you know, if you could remove something, what would it be? Listen,
to the type of person you are. Um, if you are maybe a little bit scared person, or a person who wants to to give away responsibility, you have to acknowledge that. And not because you are in a team of people, or some environment of you, a social environment of you, is expecting something of you. If it's not you, then don't do it that way. There are so many ways you can enjoy flying, but if it's not not really in in your blood, and you just do it for for somebody, so maybe some for recognition. There is really a life-threatening risk that you really put yourself out in danger.
If you really feel comfortable and you enjoy everything, you will be a good and safe pilot. hmm
Good advice, I haven't heard that one yet. We're, we're on what? Episode 98 here. That, that gets to go in the book, Alex. Uh, fantastic, Alex. Uh, this just really makes me want to fly with you more, man. I just can't be around, yes, like you did. Yes, yes, yes. No, well, I've got a few more weeks. Hopefully, we'll get some more banger days here. I will make myself available, of course. Uh, that, that was just a hoot, a blast. It was very special to be able to fly that special triangle with you guys. It really made me miss my Evox, though, I'll tell you that. I mean, I would have liked my my fast glider. But yeah, this was really, really special to talk to you. And I feel like it's a great education for me and, of course, everybody else.
So thank you. Thank you for your time. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge. We will put up all that great information you have on your blog and on all the weather sites in the show notes. And I really encourage all of you listening to go check out what Alex has done. There's a terrific compendium of incredible resource there. So check it out. But thanks, Alex.
It was a real pleasure. Thanks, Kevin. If
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