Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. We recorded this show right when I got off the plane near Lago Maggiore at the Icaro factory with Christian Cech. Manfred was there working on gliders, and I've been promising we've been doing more. We will be doing more hang glider shows, and this is one of them. To be honest with you, though, that was before the X-Alps, several weeks before the X-Alps, and this is now I'm recording this opener post X-Alps, about a week after the X-Alps, and I am still pretty foggy, so I don't totally remember what Christian and I talked about. I know we talked about comps and techniques and getting in the right headspace and a lot of different very interesting things. We also recorded this at the Icaro factory, so there's quite a bit of sound in the background and people were working and making gliders and telephones were ringing and stuff, but I thought that was kind of appropriate and cool.
But there will be some noise in the background, but I don't think it'll bother you too much. And yeah, I know many of you want to hear more about the X-Alps. I know you only get a certain taste of it from the stories and from the live tracking, which I understand this year was awesome. I didn't get to watch that too much, obviously, in the race, but I understand it was really great. They did an awesome job with that, but I will save that for another show. I'm working on a video of some of the highlight footage from the various days. I took quite a bit of footage and one day I was flying with Toby and he had a whole video crew with him and they had a drone and a bunch of stuff, so I'm waiting on that. I'll get that up shortly and I've got a blog post that I've been working on. And the next show that we'll release in two weeks is, I did a series of questions, kind of the same questions with a whole bunch of the team.
So still got a few more of those to wrap up. I'm actually talking to Chrigel and Patrick today and a few others and then we'll put that together. Just to get their thoughts post-race and I think you're going to really enjoy that. That's a pretty fun way to get an insider's view on how it all went down. The race was epic. It was epically hard. I think I did 525K on the ground in 11 and some odd days when it ended. So yeah, rough, tough race, but great flying conditions for a bunch of it. Almost no flying conditions for the last few days with all that heat wave. It hit Europe and the stability. So super challenging, very, very fun as always. The last couple of days totally crushed me, which was when that heat was just, that took it out of me.
But yeah, so it's nice to just chill here and be in Europe. I'll be here for the next little more than a month and I'm lining up a bunch of interviews with some great pilots over here. So stay tuned for more awesomeness from the show. And in the meantime, please enjoy this great conversation with a real hanging legend, Christian Chek.
Christian, it's so awesome to have you on the show. It's great to be able to do it here live in the factory. I don't know that I'm going to be as articulate as normal because I'm really jet lagged just getting off the plane yesterday. But fantastic to see you in your in your place here at the where it all happens. This is this is the spot. So I thought where maybe we a fun place to start, we'll get into your history and comps and strategies and all this kind of thing. As we were just talking about before we started recording. But, um, I thought it'd be fun to start with a story of flying, but what's a, when you think about your decades of flying, what's, what's one that you dream about still at night? Something that still, uh, you'd look back on and kind of epitomizes your, your passion for flight.
Uh, first of all, I want to say that I'm very surprised you, you're going to be, you stay here now because I was watching you. Uh, along the Alaska during the Alaskan trip and the rocky trip was amazing. What you, you doing, um, about my history is a little bit more simple than yours, but it was very, um, enthusiastic. It was a very, uh, amazing story because I was flying a normal, uh, cross country flight. And, uh, when I was, uh, along the balloon, I know if you know the harps, I guess, you know, because you're going to run the, uh, red bull shot. So, um, I was near balloon and I was climbing into a terminal.
And, uh, after a few seconds, I saw a big eagle coming much lower than me. Uh, I didn't know he was a eagle. I just saw a big bird coming into the terminal and he started climbing. And, uh, as soon as I got close to me, I realized it was a eagle, a young eagle because the white spot on the wings. Um, instead to just, uh, pass me. And, uh, I was like, oh, I'm going to fly. And, uh, as soon as I go away, he started to stay in the terminal with me. Uh, and he was flying on the right, on the left, on the top. It was just studying me and it was something really strange. And then something unbelievable, uh, happens because instead to just fly away, I said, he come behind, uh, below my wing, just a couple of meter below my wing.
And he come into my space because he was. Into the, the wing, not, uh, not outside the, the wind tip, just below the wing, a couple of meter below, and he was flying towards me and the, when he was about one meter, I said, okay, what, what are you going to do is just make a sort of wing go and, and, uh, it flew, it flew away. It was really impressive. As you say, my hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. So, and that was near here. Uh,
Belluno is quite far from me because I was living in, uh, in Trentino, I'm coming from Trentino, I was born in Trentino, and I was flying there, my home hire, it was, uh, impressive. That is really impressive. The story that, uh, I like better.
Oh, wow. There was a time in, in Alaska after, after Dave left and, uh, it was really quite late in the evening. I had sat up on this launch all day and it was blowing over the top. And it was, you know, not launchable. So I just spent the day throwing rocks in my shoes and stuff, and finally was able to fly and got a nice flight, maybe 40 K and then landed and realized, ah, I think I can still make a little bit of distance. Cause in Alaska, it's not, it never gets dark, you know? And so I ran up this little hill and there was quite a bit of wind going the way I was going. I launched and kind of Ridge sword and finally kind of got out and flew not far, 10 K. And then there was a huge glacier, massive. And I thought, oh, I really. Need some height to get across this because the glaciers look okay, but to land is not good.
You know, and I, and I was just, it was late and there wasn't really any thermals. And I thought, oh, I don't know. I don't, I don't think I can make it. I was just kind of soaring. And, uh, this Eagle came out of a tree, literally right where I was soaring. I hadn't seen him and he came out and it was like, he was just like, okay, come on, I'll help you, you know, and just got a little tiny bit of lift. And then we both flew across the glacier together. It was like, he knew where I was going. And then just as we got across, he was. Okay. See, that was amazing. I think they know.
So tell me about Icaro and, and your history here. And, uh, because I, we did this show on the history of hang gliding that was fascinating. And from what I understand in kind of the late seventies, there were just dozens and dozens of manufacturers. And now it's really you and Wills and a couple others, and it's really trimmed down. And, uh, so that I, it's, I feel very privileged to be here.
Yeah, the market is very small for hang gliding now, uh, for directly, let's say that there are, there are very few schools on the lighting school, uh, schools around the world. So this is why so many factor factories, uh, are not here anymore. And Icaro start to produce some gliding in 1975 and I arrived here in 2001. So it's, uh, 18 years that I'm here and, uh, I was flying. Icaro since, uh, 91. Okay. Wow. Kind of. You're loyal. I start flying in 88 and probably I start flying because my father was a pilot, hang glider pilot.
He start when Icaro open the same because he start flying in 75. I was four on that time. Uh, and since he start flying, I always follow him around the takeoff. I'm landing and probably the passion come from that.
Was he, was he real instrumental in teaching you as well, or was he more reserved?
No, I wasn't a lot of resource. Yeah. Uh, I, I start flying in 88, but my father wasn't so happy. Yeah. It, it teach me something when I was 14, but just some training him. And, uh, when I start flying, uh, unlikely he stops because he say the two pilots in the. The family are too much. Hmm.
So did it make your mom nervous?
No, really. Um, I guess it's because it was kind of, um, anxious. My father was kind of anxious. He never really, uh, learned to properly take off. Let's say it was, it was when he, when he began to, to, to fly, there was no instruction. Sure. Uh, everybody start by himself, uh, who has, who had more experience was. Teaching to the others, but, uh, it was not easy. And, um, my father lost, uh, many friends because at the beginning of the history of ungliding, many accidents happens. And so I guess this is why he stopped when I started. So we had only. Do you have any
siblings? Do you have any brothers and sisters?
I have two sisters. Okay. They, they don't fly. Okay. Um, and I had only a couple of flight with my father together. And I remember one because it was a Houghton flight, very smooth condition. And, uh, since then I had some problem, let's say on landing, I was kind of nervous landing. I had something like six months of flying on that time and flying with him, just, uh, with him in front of me and approach landing with him. It was some, something really relaxed, let's say. And, uh, I guess I learned something, uh, that had me after that. Um, the, the, the next flight.
And did he fly competitions and that kind of thing too, eventually? Okay. Does he still fly?
No, he's not. He's not here anymore. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. And he stopped flying when I started. So. Oh,
that was it. Yeah. It just made him too nervous.
Yeah. We, we, we made very few flights together. A couple, as I said. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. And so when did you get serious about it? When did it, was it right away? You just were like fascinated and crazy about it. Or did it take some time?
Uh, it didn't take time. It was, it was so many years that I was waiting to fly that, uh, it was natural that I have to fly because my father was flying for 13 years before I started. And uh, on that time I was just waiting that my father said, okay, you can go. And as soon as I had the age, 16 years, I started the cruise and I started flying and it was what I have to do.
Mm. Mm. And how did it, how did the competitions and all that start going? Was that just kind of the natural progression?
I would say yes, because, um, I was interested in cross country flights, uh, and in my area only few pilots, very few pilots made, uh, was made making cross country flights. And so many times I just bomb out somewhere by myself, uh, with nobody to compare. And they said, uh, there is no way to improve in this way. So I guess I have to start some, to make some competition and, uh, and this is why I started and the reason to, to, to, to improve, to, to learn. And, uh, as far as I get this, uh, um, approach to the competition still now, or also now this is the best way I can approach the competition.
Okay. Okay. So if I come to the competition with, uh, the spirit of learning something, normally I get the better, the best results. Mm.
So we're going to talk about, yeah, the kind of the mental side of the game, but how many world championships have you won now?
Uh, three. Okay. Two with the rigid and one with the flex. Okay. And one European championship with the flex. So
for the paragliding pilots that listened, describe the difference.
Uh, the rigid wings. Uh, are, uh, the, the class five I'm flying, I was flying, uh, are controlled like a hang glider, standard hang glider, but the movement instead of, uh, um, shift your body, you just move the hyaluron or the spoiler on. Okay. Um, and so this, this make the wing get turning. So you move your body on the right and the right spoiler, uh, open and then the right, uh, the wing. Turn on right. Hmm. On the flex wing. When you make the right movement, you have, um, your body, your weight goes to the right. And so you have, um, more deformation on the right wing and on the left. And so you have the term.
And so this is a totally different category when you, when you guys find it in the championships, it's it's, you have the rigid or the flex. You, you choose. Do you have a, do you have a, do you have a favorite?
Yeah. The flex. The flex. Yeah. I'm not flying the rigid anymore. Okay. Uh, I made a. A couple of, uh, a couple of, uh, world championships, some other competition. I was flying rigid, uh, all the 2002, uh, but then, uh, the market for, for Icaro was not so interesting. So, uh, we stopped producing the rigid wing. We were producing rigid wings too, but now we produce only flex wing. Is
that pretty much the world over? Is it just, is it just flex pretty much now?
No, no. Uh, the rigid are not all the technology, but the, um, the market is smaller. The pilots are less, so there is less interesting for us to, to be in the market on that market.
Um, when we did the show on the history of it, uh, um, a couple of the guests were talking about that they, they really felt like to get more people interested in the sport, they needed to spend more time on, you know, that, that these gliders that are so hot and, you know, high aspect. And really fun to fly and the competition end of gliders, you know, they're not very accessible to newer pilots and they needed to spend more time on wings that were fun, but easier, much easier to learn and not as dangerous, I guess. Uh, but more inviting to the, the newer pilots is that, how does, how has Icaro approached that?
Uh, we have, um, um, a wide range of kind of, uh, wings with those. Because, uh. We produce wings for beginners and for competition pilots. Um, and likely, uh, in, uh, almost all country now there is also the sport class competition for pilot that don't, don't have such a big experience like the top pilots, let's say. And so approaching the competition on, on gliding is, is possible for everyone because you can approach a sport class competition even with a, with a beginner glider. Uh. Uh, so there is no reason to say that you cannot approach the competition because you are not, uh, you don't have the, the, the right experience and, uh, also the competition on glider.
We are always working, it is true that they are more, less accessible for everyone, but we are always working to get, uh, better and easier wings to fly. So for instance, the competition on glider of today.
Is
it, is it similar to paragliding in that, you know, every year there's these little tiny breakthroughs and to really be competitive, you've got to have the best glider that year. I mean, is it, is it the kind of thing where, or can you, can you survive and compete on the glider from four years ago?
Uh, you can, let's say that the, the development of, uh, ungliding, uh, is, is, is, uh, is, uh, the movement of the wing and gliders. Uh, we, we wings are not so fast, has the, the partner. Uh, let's say that, uh, model of last year or two years are still competitive and, uh, every year we try to do something better, but yeah, it's a long process. So I just read that one. I went, I will I wait to say American way to say, and it is the RO is not the arrow, but he's the Indian. I love that. but you should you must have a good heart so yeah
Okay, gotcha. So let's talk about the Indian, um, that was there. Was there a moment in your competition career that you look back on, it was really defining in terms of something clicking, something kind of, "Okay, I'm figuring this out," or has it just been a constant kind of, "It's always the education"? Because I've found competitions to be quite, uh, you know, you have, you have your mantras, discipline, whatever it is, you know, to, but it's, uh, you had like a breakthrough moment that helped you, uh, kind of under, like, put the pieces together to get the goal fast? Yeah.
maybe, um, because I was kind of, uh, pilots that was tend to fly by inside
I was watching the others, but as soon as I get my line and my, uh, my idea, I just was playing on that direction. Uh, and then I realized that it wasn't working so well. Most of the time, the the leading gaggle is he knows something more than you, and so I started flying a different way. I started to fly more with the gaggle, wait to understand how what's going on during the day, and, uh, at the beginning, I just left everybody if I could, and I didn't wait anybody from the beginning of the flight. And now it's different. Now I tend to stay, I try to stay with the best pilots during the flight, and if during the flight it's possible to leave them, then I try, but it's something that has to work by, by, by himself.
I didn't try to leave the leading; it must be the gaggle that goes away how
Do you, how did you, um, how have you adapted to, as I understand, in hang gliding, they, you know, they used to very much be start gates, uh, and they, they've changed things now to really give you a lot of lead points. So, and then typically, like, in Italy, I understand Gary was telling me this when we drove up, that it's the, a lot of times they're just one, you know, more like a paragliding race now. Um, how did you adapt to that change, uh?
I like the the situation not better now than before, because before it was more... most of the time it was just a matter of waiting. If you have enough patience to wait to be the last to take off, or to the last to leave the gate, you probably win the the day. It was not nice because you were waiting that the condition blow away, disappear, and so it was not nice. Now with with the kind with the leading gaggle, we are forced to to fly in the best condition, in the best possible condition, and everybody tried to do that. So I like this situation better, and I guess he I didn't he
didn't, uh, need a big adaption because it was the way everybody hoped to fly, um
What's your favorite place to fly the?
orange really
Of course, yeah, yeah, and your favorite place to have a competition as well, uh
Yes, maybe, yeah. There are many good places for a competition, but uh, and in the Dolomites, we have only, only few, but the Dolomites are amazing. I, I didn't visit all the planets, but uh, I went in several different countries, and the scenery that you have in the Dolomites is, it's also because it's accessible. It's not really a lot; it's not like Alaska, you know? You can be on by yourself into the mountain and just in half an hour flights, you, you are on the ground on a civil place. So easy, it's easy to fly, and the scenery is amazing when
I, I just spent, uh, let me ask
You what's, which one is your favorite?
I like home where I live in Sun Valley. Yeah, it's, it's, it's hard because, um, we, we often get battered by the jet stream and so, you know, like this last summer, we had one week that was just unbelievable, like as good as it gets, and the rest of the summer was terrible. So you just, you don't get the hours there like you do in the Alps, because even when, even when the weather's not great in the Alps, you can usually go fly, you know? And I think that's why the pilots here are just so good, because there's one, there's so you're getting so much more feedback and you can learn much quicker. But, you know, at home there's four or five of us, you know, that, that really chase the cross country because it's pretty strong, it's pretty big air you fly with oxygen in the summer and stuff.
But boy, when it's good, it's Magnificent, it's beautiful mountains and it's really strong. Um, you know, King Mountain for you guys is famous hang gliding site and it's a really special place. You know, the Big Lost is that chain that Will Gadd and I flew in the Rockies. You know, it goes all the way to South America and all the way to Alaska. It's a big chain of mountains. So, um, yeah, I like where I live, but it is inconsistent. It's tough. We just, we deal with a lot of wind. It used to be a big hang gliding area and it's the same as other places that you just don't see them anymore. But it would be, I'm really tempted to get into hang gliding because you can just deal with more wind. You know, I think it's, um,
would be a magnificent place to hang. Have you ever flown King? Have you, did you ever do a comp out there? Yeah, because they used to have a lot of comps and they don't anymore. But the, you know, the sailplanes still fly there. Um, the Big Lost is the next range over from where I live. It's called the Big Lost Range and it's, yeah, it's pretty magnificent. So I was just down, I was just watching the Superfinal and, uh, which happened down in Brazil and it was really interesting to study the track logs and to afterwards, you know, the 10 days of racing, whatever it was that that to see the consistency of the the guys and the girls that ended up kind of in the top 10 or the top five and it it's very often I see, you know, the names are the same, not always, but you know, in the big races you see, uh, the you see that kind of the same folks.
Um, what are you what are you guys that are consistent like that? What is what's the what are the keys there? Because what I also noticed there was there, they're the rabbits, you know, they're the guys that can really fly fast and they're they have a very good chance of winning a task, but typically it doesn't work out for them very well, uh, at the end. You know, they're they're they're breaking too much, they're like you said, going out on their own too much, uh, you know, they're not is what Russ Ogden would call it, they're not as disciplined
Yeah, sometimes when you fly like, uh, when you, you are the rabbit, if everything works well, you don't have the, uh, the death time that you, you have on, on a gaggle. Sometimes in the gaggle, you have the, the waiting time that, uh, uh, everybody, everybody, everybody apply when you get on the top of the lift, everybody is waiting the others and, uh, they wait that somebody leave the terminal. Uh, so if the gaggle is not good, you have a lot of waiting time and, compared to a rabbit, you are out. But the rabbit has a less probability, high risk, less probability to find thermal and the gaggle works better if the gaggle is good and it works good, it's very fast.
You cannot deal with them, why? Why the pilots are always the same? Uh, it's difficult to say. I mean, they are focused on what they are doing, and I guess the good pilots are the pilots that are flying the condition they find. I mean, when you are—you are in takeoff, you look at the sky and you said, "Okay, today the day is this," and you imagine the condition you gonna fly, the thermal you're gonna find, and you are expecting something. But then, as soon as you get in here, maybe the condition are different that what you were expecting. So,
having a big expectation also in towards the conditions, it's always a risk. You have to adapt yourself to the condition, not whichever some doesn't work on the other way. So, you have to fly the condition you find and not the condition you like to find. And the good pilots, I guess, they have this kind of mentality. They works, they knows the condition, they can read the sky very well, but most of that, more than that, they can fly the condition they find, so It's, I guess, it is the reason when
You look back at your success and the the things you've learned, or that were there are there areas that that you studied or that you really delved into that you you feel were fruitful, that that you know that you know that you really spend some time in that that bore fruit.
Yeah, I spent a lot of time, especially at the beginning, to read the material.
meteorology meteorology
books and, and also looking
At the weather, I was really curious.
experience of other pilots on books, and I guess he had the possibility to fly with the some good pilots at the beginning, and also then the competition, of course. But let's say that, I guess, is more the mentality that you improve with the competition, with the experience that works especially for me now. But yes, of course, at the beginning I was reading, are reading quite a lot do
You have any recommendations, oh?
Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. The sky visitors, but I don't know if there is a an English version, okay? Um, that was nice because it was, um, joining the the theory to the practical to the experience of some pilots. Um, linear Westy was a book that was reading at the beginning, but it was tough, yeah.
glossary uh
Yeah, and some I find I, I found at the beginning, a really big beginning, I was finding some, uh
one
of the things Christian that I've been really trying to think about a lot, because I, I haven't been flying competitions like World Cup for very long, um, but with the X-Ops, it's just so consuming. I don't have a lot of time, but this last year I flew quite a few comps and I was trying to find that kind of perfect headspace for, you know, relaxed enough, but also serious enough, you know, where I was, you know, spending the time in the morning with the meteorology and, uh, you know, being, being disciplined in the air, but also I, I have personally, I found that my best flying is when I'm very relaxed, you know? So if you're really serious, you get kind of tense, and how do you, how do you approach, uh, and I know that this is individual for everyone, but when you go to a comp these days,
Where do you want to be, and how do you get there in your mind? I
need a order, I mean, you need an
Order, order. Okay, you have a sequence of things that you do.
Not really order in my mind, okay? Uh, when I—when I make a good competition is because, uh, everything works in a good order, and every choice is made because something I did before. Uh, when I don't have this order in my mind, everything goes wrong, like a sort of confusion they say. Um, when I fly, well, it's because, uh, uh, there is a kind of sequence that works in my mind, and that's work do
You do, you have um, do you have any kind of preparation that you do to try to get into that, or is that just something that's happens naturally?
Not really, but uh, physically, yes. I try to, to be prepared physically because, especially in gliding, the physical part, it's important. Uh, let's say that you, if you, if you have the possibility to fly a lot, especially in competition, you don't need to do much more. But, uh, especially here, that in winter we don't have a very good condition to fly, and, uh, you have a long rest. Let's say you, you can fly, but you make something like 10 minutes flight each. Uh, so you need to, to be prepared for, for the Springer, for the competition, because, um, it's, it's true that, uh, in on gliding is not like running or bicycle or something like that, but the physical part is really dominate, dominating, they say, but
The preparation, the physical preparation, helps you to get a clear mind when you are in flight. If you are tired, you cannot make the right choice.
Um, your friend and partner that's behind us working right now, a man for rumor, uh, who I'll hopefully get on the show here at some point as well. And again, I might my lack of knowledge with hang gliding here, but I understand that, you know, if, if there was a comparison, he's kind of the Chrigel in our world, uh, of the, of your sport has been, you know, he's kind of the, the guy to beat typically. Um, what have you, what why, um, what, what's he doing differently? And, and what do you, what do you try to, how do you try to utilize him in the air? Oh,
It would be nice to utilize him there. Uh, it's really instinctive, I would say, okay? Um, and really competitive, I guess. I'm not so competitive, um, uh, so as I said before, I have to approach the competition um as a new lessons, not as a new competition, because it doesn't work for me. Um, but for Manfred, he works in this way; he has to be. If he is prepared, and he knows when he is prepared, he's really competitive and, uh, and very, he's cold in the arm, the same. He knows how to choose, he knows where to stay; it's a very distinctive way to fly.
How does that, when when he's at a comp, the year's at? Does it change, change how you fly my?
way to fly, yeah.
When he's—when he's at a competition versus not at a competition, do you—you know, are you more aware of where Manfred is in terms of your strategy? And, you know, do you try to stay with—with him? Do you try to just treat him like anybody else, uh?
No, of course you have a special consideration, uh, among along this, this pilot and also some other pilots, because there are some other very good pilots. Um, you have a different, uh, consideration depending from the pilots you are flying with, of course. Um, but, uh, yes, sometimes we are human, everybody is human, and so sometimes also Manfred made some mistakes, sure.
Yeah, when you look back at your career, uh, flying all these decades, 88, you said, yeah, um, if you could wind the clock back to your 16-year-old self, your 15-50 hour self, approximately, what advice would you give that Christian after all these years in terms of anything, safety, racing, studying, uh...
especially
Probably studying, studying is never enough, and I would say to not fly a couple of in a couple of days because I had a couple of T gambling in my career. Um, no one, the first one was kind of easy, let's say, to recover because, uh, uh, I timed it because I badly managed on my Glider. I tuned it in a bad way. I didn't have experience on that time, and I lowered this truck completely. I, it was 97, just two years before the arriving of topless gospel, the scenery, the, the world of fun gliding.
Um, and so there was a reason for the tumbling and it was kind of easy to, to go, to, to continue to fly. But last year when I tumbled for the second time, it was different because I was in the right place, let's say, not, uh, don't we know anything? Uh, there is not, there was not, um, uh, strong wind, uh, thermal were kind of normal, let's say. The only one thing that was out of order was that, um, the weather forecast predict, uh, strong wind shear, uh, close to the mountain and, uh, but you know, we fly every day that is stable.
If there is not a special wind, a special situation that you consider extremely dangerous. So, uh, on that day, I just tumbled because it was the right spot in the wrong moment.
So I would, I would prefer to not fly on that day.
avoid the bad days. Did you throw your reserve?
Yeah, both, both.
And it, it worked out
the first one didn't open properly and the second one did it. So this is why we are making this interview today, really, really, because, you know, if the parachute doesn't work, yeah, there is not much, uh, did you
save the hang glider or did it fold it destroyed? I
was kind of low on the mountain, uh, about, uh, 250 meters above the, the ground and, uh, the tumbling was just very, very fast, um, on the first practice attraction of second, uh, I felt the bar going away, but, uh, the bar, the control bar. I was sitting in my hand and the second fraction of a second, I didn't realize that I lost the bar, but the bar wasn't there. And so I had to do the parachute immediately. I didn't have time to wait to see if something was possible to do to recover in a different way because the ground was too close. So I opened the first shoot and, uh, and
I felt something wrong because I didn't felt the drag of the shoot. And. Uh, the glider tried, uh, start to spin and after a few seconds, uh, I threw the second parachute and it opens properly, but the Lenny was kind of hard. Anyway, I landed on my feet, but you
were okay. Yeah,
I'm okay. Yeah. But, uh, for a few days, it wasn't so nice to walk around.
If you, if you had an accident, if you had an accident, have you been hurt?
Uh, yes. Not really. Seriously. Never seriously.
Is your approach to risk, um, different now than it was now 10 years ago, 20 years ago?
Uh, I guess so. Um, I was more, uh, inclined to may, maybe to risk a little more some days just because you know, that is difficult to get hard to, to get wrong, but now I'm a little bit more conservative about that.
Um, when you say Manfred is really competitive, um, define that. What, what do you mean? Like he, he, he just really wants to win. And so he prepares differently or, uh, approaches it differently or, uh,
it's not a pilot though when I stay second or third, if he knows that he cannot win, he will not compete, I guess, just
wants to win. We should get him in the XL. You
have to ask him, but I guess, uh, yeah,
um, what would you say to, uh, the, the listeners, you know, we have a lot of hang listeners, hanging listeners, but we also, we have many more paragliding listeners. Um, what would you say to them, uh, enter if they're thinking about getting into hang gliding, what would be, what would be the approach? What would be the, what
are they are waiting for?
No, they're there. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Stop waiting. Just do it. Right. Um, but the, what would, what would be the best way to approach getting into hang gliding?
Just like paragliding, I guess. Yeah. You have to go to a school and start a course. And, uh, as a, as for the paraglider, you don't need to, you don't have to erase yourself. You have to improve day by day. Yeah. Without, uh, uh, risky, without keep, uh, waiting that your experience grow with you. You don't have to run anyway, anywhere.
So
what are, what are, yes,
I guess if somebody want to do, he has to do, because as we said here, um, you never see a eagle flying with the house in front of him. Sorry. Yeah.
Fair enough.
When you.
Another, another, uh, I made a question for, for two, who asked me why to fly paraglider or hang glider. And it is how you dream to fly. Do you dream to fly seated or prone?
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sure. Do you want to fly like a bird? Do you want to fly like an eagle facing backwards, his ass backwards? Yeah.
Um, when you, when you imagine, uh, your life in five, 10 years and flying, what do you, what's your vision? What, what, what's your, what's your goal?
To have a easier and safer wings, especially after the accident of last year.
Um, it would be nice to be in the air and say, okay, the parachute is just an option. Today is not an option. It's something you have to do with you. And sometimes it is not as necessary to use. It's really rare. It's never happened, but when it happens, you have to do it. Hmm.
Um, and so the idea is to, to get safer and easier wings to fly. Hmm.
And what about for you with, uh, in competitions or, you know, in, in programs? Is that really important or is this something you do just for fun?
Uh, I still like competing and, um, it's a good way to fly, I guess, because of course it's good to, it is nice. And I like a lot to make cross country flights and even to make some, uh, evening flight is nice, but, uh, to compete, you have the opportunity to, to share the experience with the friends. Also during our cross country flights. You can share the experience with a friend, but when you are in here for a cross country flight, sometimes the target changed. I mean, you start to, with the decision to reach a goal and during the day you see that the goal is not reachable or there is a better goal, uh, to, to reach.
And you decide for, for another, another flight. Your friend maybe doesn't know, or maybe it doesn't follow you, or it don't want to follow you. So during a competition, everybody has one single goal and you share this experience for all day. This is why I like to compete.
When you look back at the, since, since you learned how to fly, um, I'm assuming like everyone, there's been some times where you're not maybe as motivated, you know, it kind of comes up and goes down like we fly. Um, how do you, how have you handled the times that you don't have as much motivation or passion, or maybe it's just you, you're tired of it?
Um, I guess you, it's, it's a natural part of the life and a natural part of the, the flying experience. So, uh, I would say that there is not really a need to, to force, to fly when you don't feel, uh, the, the, the need to fly. I guess the, the, the, the worst things you can do is to be in the air. Like the, the way to say the worst thing to do is to be in the air with the, the, the, the need to be on ground.
So yeah, if you don't have to do, but because you are working or because you are a test pilot, um, I would say just keep your time and wait because even it can be also dangerous if you are in the air and you don't have the mind, the head to, to fly, you are not, uh, ready to fly. So.
Was there any kind of, uh, I don't know what, if this would be the, the, the words that would make sense for you in Italian, but the, after your tumble, after that accident, was there, uh, any kind of fear injury that went with that by, by fear injury? I mean, like in the next flights after that, were you more, did it take you some time to get back to? Yeah. Sure.
It's a kind of long process. Hmm. Especially, especially because, uh. On the second time it happens, uh, with a normal glider, with a standard configuration and, uh, you understand that it can happen in many different situations. So, um, without the specific reason I had on, on the first time. And so, yes, it's, uh, you are, you are a little bit more stressed from some turbulence, some, some, uh. When, when you know that you are approaching, uh, lee side of mountain is going to be more difficult. Of course.
When I, um, I recently had a podcast with Wolfgang Seiss. Uh, we, we haven't released it yet, but by the time this is out, people will have heard that one. And he talked about his tumble that he had in Elsinore, which is all on film. It's, I don't know if you've seen it. Yeah,
I've seen it. It's
terrifying. Um, he said it took him about four years really to get there. And he wanted to get over that. Um, do you, do you do anything specific to help that getting over that?
Um, no, I guess the best thing to do is to fly confidence. You need to get the confidence again. And it takes time and the more you fly, the easier it is. I didn't know. I didn't remember that it was already four years. Yeah.
Yeah. It was, uh, I was, I was stuck. surprised with that too, and he said that it really, it's uh, for a long time he would be like leading a comp, or you know, doing quite well, and then it would be a little something that, you know, he'd get a little bump, and he and he didn't realize it, but he would just go on a really bad line and land, and then he'd be in the field and go, "What? What? What the hell? What? What did I just do? Why did I do that?" You know it, and he said, "You know the kind of turbulence that before would not have even been turbulence, it would have been, you know, it just scared him out of the air over and over." It was really quite a long time to get the confidence back. He, he said the best thing for him was like flying in in Valle with a lot of other people, or flying in competitions where he could see that, "Wait a minute, it's not scaring all of them, it shouldn't scare me," and it really helped to fly with friends, fly with other people.
Yeah,
I agree, when you fly by yourself, uh, it's difficult you to evaluate if the turbulence you're finding is too strong or not because you're by yourself and you don't know if somebody else would fly or not in that condition, but when you are in competition, you have, uh, different people to to watch and if they stay in the air most of the time, not always, sometimes there are very crazy people, but most of the time you can stay there too. So, yeah, I agree, the competition flying and fly in like that out, especially in competition, that's a lot what
What kind of flying most interests you now, after all these years for...
Several years when I started to fly to to work here in IKEA in 2001, for several years I didn't have the opportunity, let's say, of uh, of flying in uh, by myself, cross country competition, because I was also teaching in the school and competing. So my flying, my flying was a test blind, a competition flight, and for the rest I didn't have time for the cross country flight. But now I am motivated for cross country flight, especially before the tumbling, I was trying to make some very good flights. Now I'm, yeah, I have to work on on that.
Um, let's end it on another eagle-like story. What's another story, uh, of flying that really sits on the front of the plane with you flying?
wise, uh, I had a very good task flying a flight flew with the al explorer that I remember because the conditions were very unstable with a covered sky, so the conditions were smooth and good almost everywhere. And we, we had some tens of kilometers parameters, uh, together into around the clouds and was kind of nice. Um, and non-flying wise, I guess, yeah, some dinner after, after, after competition are very, very nice, singing, uh, karaoke.
with a drinking friend, drunk friends, and my father said that we were on one of these this dinner, my it was the Italian national in 2004 and I was singing something, I don't remember, something like, uh, vagabondo of um Italian group and there was, uh, there was my father and there was also my mother and my father said, "Look at Christian, he think that he can sing. Really, he can't sing."
so
You must have been. If you're like me, you must have been very drunk, because the only time I open my mouth to sing is when I'm really hammered.
Christian, thank you very much. I really appreciate your time and sharing your stories, some of them, and uh, wish you the best of luck here. And I hope to be able to come back and see you after the race, uh, but thank you for your support there in the past and just thank you. Period. I appreciate it. Thank...
You very much, and I wish you the best possible result in the next competition. Thank you.
if
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