Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloud Base Mayhem. It is getting super real for the Red Bull X-Alps. We are just slightly over two weeks away. I can't believe after all the months and months and months of preparation that it's all happening. And I'm actually recording this several weeks before this actually drops. So I haven't actually left for Europe. By the time you get this, I'll have been there for a little while doing some training with my team. And hopefully it has warmed up a lot. And they've got a lot of snow in Europe. Last I checked, it's been cold and wet and snowy. And there's a lot of snow not very high. And a lot, a lot of snow up high. So it looks like the race can be, yeah, got to think about our foot management big time. Hopefully the weather will just be epic and we'll fly over those passes.
But, of course, that never happens. So I expect some real slogging and very wet conditions. Hopefully it's not isothermic post-hauling hell, but locked up. But, yeah, it's going to be very interesting. I have been promising. Quite some time, more hanging shows. I was out in California, as you all know. I've been listening to this lately, out in March. And ran into Wolfie, Wolfgang Seiss, again there. I saw him doing some ground stuff down in Valle. Some ground effect flying about 100 miles an hour that was insane. It was so awesome. It really, really made me want to fly hang gliders. So Wolfie's dad flies hang gliders. He's been flying since he was 14. He's been flying really seriously now for 19 years. He runs the gamut on flying, you know, speed flying down hills and comps and expedition stuff and tons of films.
And this is just super fun talk. You're going to dig this, whether you hang glide or not. I hope this sparks some interest in the younger crew with hang gliding. They are an incredible aircraft. And Wolfgang's one of the best. So he is incredibly passionate about it. He does pretty much all he does year-round is fly. And I think you're going to really enjoy this talk. As I've been talking about in the last bunch of shows, we have made the transition over to our own subscription service on the website. However, if you are still supporting us through Patreon, just stay there. If you like it, if you like the platform, it works totally well. A lot of you that are on Patreon, though, have been having trouble. We brought that database across. You should be all set up with a username and password.
Actually, with password, you just have to get on and put your username and then say forgot password if you don't know it. And it will create an account for you. And then you have access to all the bonus content. Of course, all the bonus content also gets posted on Patreon. So you've already got it. But on the website, it's a little easier to find because it's all in one place rather than kind of blog format as it is in Patreon. So if you're having any trouble with that, reach out to me. I will be available to do that kind of stuff for about another week. Again, when this drops. But, of course, during the race, I'm a one-man show and that's not going to happen. The other thing that's going to be tricky, this summer is all of our swag, all our Cloudbeast Mayhem trucker hats and t-shirts and stuff. That's going to be tricky because I'm, again, one-man show and I'll be in Europe through August. Be over there all of June, July, most of August.
And so I won't be able to ship any of that stuff while I'm there. So get your orders in now and I'll get them over to you. All right. That sounds like my missus and little one coming in. So I'll just switch over here to the podcast. Please enjoy this cool talk with a very cool dude. Wolfie Seiss.
Wolfie, man. Awesome to have you on the show. I appreciate it. We've been trying to coordinate this since I saw you. Well, gosh, since I saw you in Valle in January and then we saw each other again in Santa Barbara, which was cool. I actually got to fly a bit together there. And then you've been rallying all over the place. But great to have you on the Mayhem. Psych to talk to you. I appreciate it. I understand you're in your van. Out there in Innsbruck and getting ready for the tandem season. And there's a lot of snow, which makes me super nervous about the race.
Hey, Gavin. Thank you so much for having me on the show. It's pretty awesome talking to you. Yeah, it's been pretty wild. A couple of months. Lots of traveling. Lots of flying. And yeah, now I'm actually in Interlaken, Switzerland and starting working tomorrow.
Great. Yeah. So I want to talk to you about tandems. I want to talk to you about your history and your dad. And we don't do enough hangy shows, man. So I'm really excited to talk to you about this passion that we share in the sky from different avenues. And of course, paraglider and your hangy. So that's going to be a lot of fun. But I thought a really good place for us to start, not that I like to dwell on the scary stuff, but Evan told me that when he reached out a few months ago and he was like, hey, you're going to be in the same place as Wolfie. You got to say hi and try to get him on the show. He gave me some of your videos. He gave me the arch thing that you and Zach did in Moab, which was sick. That was so cool. And then he also showed me the video from Elsinore.
And God, dude, that tumble looked terrifying. It was so amazing to have all that on video and that you came out OK. But I thought we'd start there just to get everybody listening here totally gripped and into this into the show. That was scary, man. What happened?
Yeah, that was definitely a while. It was definitely a wild one. It took me a long time to get over it. And I probably didn't see the video myself in like two years. It's like, you know, everywhere you go, people tell you, oh, this video is so crazy and they want to show it to you. I was like, I just don't want to see that anymore. I can just relive that as soon as I see it.
That's it. You know, talk about the place, too, because I've flown Elsinore a bit. It's really a better hanging site than a paragliding site. It's windy. It's on. And I know, you know, you guys have been the hangings have been flying that site for more than 40 years. But I mean, God, that just looked terrifying, man.
It's I love Elsinore when I'm in California. I love the flight. I think it's it's super fun to fly. And, you know, we heard about they call it the tax zone where I tumbled and I'm not the first one who came down on his parachute there. Um, it's I it's really hard to say what happened that day. Because everybody else you talk to said it was a very nice flying day. And the day before we flew and we got you actually get the conversions there with the sea breeze come in and then you can fly all the way to the beach. And we knew the sea breeze was coming in, but he was still quite a while away because when I was lying down there after everything, it was probably not an hour before the sea breeze really come in.
So, you know, it was just strong thermal and not so good. Good. Conditions. But, you know, a little a little bit of maybe over the back, maybe not. It's really hard to say what really happened there.
And is that is a tumble on a hang glider? Is that is that as bad as it gets? I mean, is that is that just the one thing when it happens to you guys, you just don't really have an option?
Yeah, there's people flown out of tumbles. There's stories of people flowing out of tumbles. For me, it was not really a tumble. So tumble is more like straight over. And I kind of rolled over sideways, which was also kind of odd and weird. I must have just got into like, you know, really strong thermal shear on one side and just the downdraft of the other one. And it just flipped me over in like a split second, you know, by the time I realized what's happened, I was lying in the sail already.
God, but man, you reacted really fast. Was there just was it just kind of this is this is my only move? Yeah. Instant in your mind?
Yeah, pretty much. It's really bad because I already have two parachute deployments before that from acrobatic flying from hang gliders when I had gliders blow up on me. When
you say blow up like they broke.
Yeah, they actually broke like in a loop on the bottom and just completely blew up. And you know, there's the only chance it's a reserve. And in this moment, I mean, I knew how high I was and I try to figure out how to do it. I try to fix it like you can see in the video. I try to fix it, but it's just like, you know, I was not having it. And then I fell into the sail and, you know, I knew my altitude. So the only option was throwing the reserve and getting it out as quick as possible. And it actually like I threw it out and I never really felt the opening. The way I was spinning, there was not really a hard opening. So I actually did not know I was hanging on the parachute until I hit the ground. Oh,
Jesus. I mean. I mean, from the video's perspective, it looked like you rolled through. Bam, you're in. It just looks so fast. I mean,
you know how it is in these like really radical situations. Everything, time slows down, you know? Sure. And for me, that whole thing, like we didn't find the video until like three days later when we went back and searched for the camera. And for me, the whole thing was like took way longer. I said I was laying in the sail forever because that's what I felt. So the glider flipped over. I fell into the glider and glider basically broke on me. And then I slipped out of the back. And I remember seeing like just the sail material around me. And that just took forever until I saw sky again. But in real life, it just happened like in an instant, you know? Do you guys fly with two reserves? So half-half.
Some people do. Some people don't. Calm pilots normally do. Some people do. Especially since my second parachute deployment, I always fly with two reserves. It's just, you know, a little extra safety. And also, it helps for weight sometimes with hang gliders. If you need a little extra weight, you don't need to carry lead. You just carry an extra parachute.
Were you at that time, so this was four years ago, is that right? That's pretty
much plus minus a week or two, four years ago, yes.
Wow, it's just right now. Yeah. At that time, were you, you know, quote-unquote professional pilot? You know, you're flying comps. I mean, is that kind of how you're making your living then?
Yeah, a mixture between tandems for a couple of seasons. And then, you know, I'm probably trying to be professional for like maybe six years now, which is not that easy in hang gliding. So getting side jobs and just, you know, working cash in hand when the weather is bad and helping out buddies in construction. But basically trying to chase professional hang gliding. And the whole trip, the whole thing in Elsinore was basically the start of a big road trip. Me and my buddy Jonas Lobitz did the Rhythm of Flight road trip. And that was like the first stop, first filming stop. We filmed part of the episode the day before. And my glider was brand new. That was my third flight on a brand new $12,000.
Solid glider. And I destroyed it like to a couple of screws, I think, were left and a base tube.
Crushing. So before we started recording, I want to get back into the specifics of the accident too. But before we started recording, you know, you said that I think it was like 12 episodes on that that you guys did. But it took you a solid three years to kind of recover from the mental side of that. How hard was that to go out and start? You just started this project. You mangle your glider. Was it kind of hard filming all that? How long did it take you to film this project?
No, the thing is I flew the next day. We actually had wheelswing demo days in Andy Jackson that following weekend. I think Maxi did was on a Wednesday. And then we started the demo days on Friday or something. And so I flew straight away. I flew. I flew all weekend and kind of thought I'm over it. Like, oh, that happened. I shake it off. And then we actually went to Florida, did some comms. And I did really well in the comms. And I was literally like, oh, I'm so good. You know, I didn't bother me. And people are super like, no, you know, you just had a pretty big accident. And I'm like, no, I'm all good. And then we got to the mountains. As soon as we got to Colorado, I every time I flew into Turboland Air, I just got very scared.
And I think the first time. The first time in big mountain was in either in gold, I think in golden Colorado. And I climbed out. I got one bump, which everybody would normally laugh about when you get something like that, like a little bit of Turboland. I flew out in the middle of the valley, spiral down, landed and was just over it. And that just continued the entire trip. Like everywhere we went, like, you know, we flew some big sites like in Canada. And I just. I couldn't enjoy it. I was super amped on the doing the whole project and we still had a good time and I love flying. I mean, that's what I love and that's what I do. And I kept trying and kept trying and it just took a very long time to being not scared for the tumbles.
I think it took three years until I'm was completely over it.
What looking back, was there anything that helped or was it just time or were there, you know, did you talk to any like sports psychologists? Or friends or other people that had had, you know, similar accidents? You know, what was the was there kind of a was there a piece of that puzzle that you were able to figure out or was it more just just time?
I never talked to a psychologist. I always thought about it because it was really bad. And, you know, I was like leading com tasks and flying into a little turbulence and go and land and didn't even realize until I was on the ground what I just did. I'm like. What just happened? Like, you know, had full on blackouts in the air. But I think I talked to a lot of people and most people just said it needs time and needs time. And for me, what helped the most was I went flying. I never stopped flying. Even if I knew it was a rowdy day, I went flying and sometimes I flew for ten minutes and other times I got an hour out of it and then got too scared and just kept going at it. But I think what helped the most was calm flying and flying with other people and going like. It is turbulent and I getting, you know, bounced around here pretty well.
But there's 30 people next to me who also get bounced around and nobody tumbles. So I'm fine. You know, was
it do you think part of the the nervousness or the fear that kind of sank in after that, you know, the after the Andy Jackson and after the first comps in Florida where it really kind of set in? Do you think part of it was because, you know, looking back on it, you didn't really know what happened? I mean, I. I mean, it seemed it seemed like it was just such a you know, what was there something you did? Was it was it a lack of knowing what you did wrong?
Yeah, I I really can't tell what I did wrong in the whole thing. I mean, it's if you look at it, there's not it's always hard. Most of our accidents, there's a good amount of pilot error. It's like a little arrow like you hit a tree pilot area. You flew into some freaking storm. It's pilot arrow. Because you should have not been there. But this was like it was a good day and it was really hard because it was not turbulent. Everybody I talked to said it was a nice day. And and I think that's what made it so. I mean, Florida is nice conditions and it was never turbulent. So I think that's why Florida was just so nice to fly. And then when I got into the mountains, it's just it's you know, it is months get rough and they bounce you around sometimes.
And and I think it just needed time. I think I got so quick back into flying and just we were just. We were so focused. I mean, that project, you know, this is they take a long time to get organized. And I was just so focused on that project that I just took a long time to sink in what really happened.
You know, one of the things you and I and a lot of we've all seen a ton of accidents in this sport. It's just the reality. And a lot of times, you know, with like this 2020 hindsight, it's you know, you go, God, that wasn't surprising that that so and so got hurt. Because they were flying scared, you know, you know, when you're not when you're not confident and kind of on your game, we always look at it and go, man, it's just, you know, but but that's a hard thing, isn't it? I mean, if you're not, how do you get confident back on your game if you don't fight through it? You know that there's there have been times in my career where I've really noticed I'm flying scared and I'm always like, God, does that mean I should not fly for a while? Or I mean, the solution for for for so many people I've talked to is always different.
Some people go to like a lower class glider. You know, some people just avoid the meat of the day. But, you know, to me, it's kind of like, man, you got to kind of get back on the horse and get through it. But then, you know, if you are scared, you're probably overreacting. You're a little too handsy. I don't know what the parallel would be in hang gliding, but, you know, you're just doing too much.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, if you I don't know, it's really hard to say. I think, yeah, you can. I think you get in your own head a lot. You know, it's like. You know, you scare yourself. And then for me, it was like I was like really scared. I really want to go flying. But at the same time, every time I went flying, I already thought about the incident even before I went flying. So it's like, you know, it's really hard to, like, shut it off and just do something else, you know. And but for me, flying with buddies, flying with friends, flying with a lot of people. That's what just, you know, did it for me and got me back into it. Just, you know, seeing other people flying with other people and just. I think that was my mind a lot away from the whole thing.
Hmm.
Let's let's give the audience some some background here. Rewind to the beginning. I understand your dad was a pilot and that's how you got into it.
Yeah, my dad. My dad still is a hang glider pilot. So my dad still flies. He started flying in 78.
And in the meat of it, like right just after the beginning, it's not quite the beginner gliders like the beginning of hang gliding. But right after and he's been flying for since then, still flies every every weekend. I think he's going to retire in a month. So he's going to go flying even more. And yeah, I just grew up around hang gliding. That's what we did on weekends. We my dad went flying and we helped him watch set up the gliders and then watched him. And. Yeah, did my first tandem when I was 10 years old with my dad on my 10th birthday. Because that was my mom's. My mom said we need to be 10 years before we can go on a tandem.
And then from then on, I just, you know, sticked around hang gliding and always, you know, had a lot of friends and from other pilots kids. We were hanging out there. And when I was 14, I got given a beginner glider. From a family friend who didn't need it anymore. It's like an old glider. So I, you know, go out on the weekends and I set up the glider and I'm run up and down the landing area and just practice my takeoffs. And in Austria, it's actually the legal age is 16 to learn how to hang glide or fly.
Right. Yeah.
And but when I was 14, 15, I started training more on a training hill with a family friend who used to be in a national team. He teach me a lot. And then I went to school. And finished everything there in the end of 15, which actually got to be on the weekend when there's Mother's Day. It's going to be 19 years that I fly.
Wow. Cool. So you started. So you got your license when you were 16?
Well, I started flying when I was 15. I got my license when I was 15 because when you have it under supervision of instructors, you can fly with 15 under the if your parents are okay with it, which I never really flew with instructors. As soon as I got my license, I just went flying with my dad and friends.
Yeah. But got my license when I was 15 and then just kept flying and kept chasing him. And your mom is a pilot? My mom's not a pilot. She's been around for a very long time. My dad and my mom used to organize the Alpen Open, which used to be a really big, well-known hang gliding competition in Innsbruck until a couple of years ago. She did a few tandems, never flew herself. But she always just supported my dad. And now me and my brother is also flying since two years now.
Oh, really? Yeah. Is he getting really into it too?
Yeah. My brother is 30 now. And when he started, he was like, oh, I want to just start and get like an easy glider and fly a little bit. And when I got back from the trip, he's super fired up. He full on got the buck. He flies every second he has time. And he's just completely into it. Completely turned from not interested to completely obsessed with flying.
What is it like in your household? Has your mom just gotten totally comfortable with this because your dad's been at it so long? Or is she constantly a little bit worried? I know with my mom, when I got into ski racing and I was six, she's gotten really good. She somehow just kind of ignores it all. She always just kind of goes, oh, that's nice, sweetie. You know? When I tell her about some big project that I've done or something. When she sits in the movie theater and watches it, she almost takes my knee off. She just kind of – she's avoided it on purpose. Just got, oh, that's so nice. She just kind of ignores it. But it's kind of hard to ignore when it's your husband.
No, I think she got – she's worried. She's a mom. And my mom knows everything about hang gliding because she's been around. She's seen accidents, seen things happen over the years. And she has a very good clue about everything. She can tell people when they fuck up or fly and they come in and they made a mistake. She knows. She's been around for a long time. And then I'm doing crazy things, racing down mountains. And I think by now they kind of got confident and they just trust me, try to do it as smart as I can and make it as safe as possible. But there's still a mom. She's definitely worried about it. And I think some things she just tries to ignore and not see it.
Is this accident you had in Elsinore or is that the only one you've had or have you had others?
So Elsinore was my third parachute deployment. Okay. Oh, yeah, and the other
two were Acro, right?
The other two were Acro. When I was 18, I got really into Acro. I got a topless glider and started looping. And I was actually training for the Ville Neff Acro comp. Oh, yeah. And, yeah, blew up a glider there. And then like six months later, I blew the same glider up again. And, you know, that's obviously always also in their kind of mind that I'm not doing that again.
Did you get hurt from those or is that – are you doing that over water? It's not a big deal.
No, I've never – the second one, I got a little hurt. I actually broke my back but just a little bit. I was just out for a couple of months. Just a little compression. I had a little compression break. Other than that, I dislocated my shoulder really bad in Columbia at a comp a few years ago.
Just making a stupid mistake in goal, being tired after a week of flying.
And, yeah, my biggest incident was my shoulder for sure. I dislocated my shoulder and ripped all my tendons. You
just come in on one wing or something? Bounce?
No. I came into goal and I was mad because I was doing really good in a comp. I was really good doing that task and try to push away to win the day and ended up coming in 15th because I got really low. And so I came in and did a little show off, low pass, fly by. And then I flew my drogue chute and just fell into the gradient and just hit the ground really hard straight in. You were – oh,
go ahead. Sorry. Just
popped my shoulder out.
You were doing these like terrain runs in Valle that were – They were awesome, man. You would come in and like just get that ground effect forever. I mean watching you do that down in Valle, I was like, okay, I get hang gliders now. Because I've always kind of been like, oh, man, the setup and the time and you got to kind of land in a place where somebody can get you because it's not so easy to hike with all that stuff. But then I saw that and I was like, oh, you're flying like a quarter of a mile five feet off the deck at 100 miles an hour it looks like. And it was like that looks fun. I mean it was super cool. Yeah,
that's the difference between hang gliding and paragliding. We just have that way bigger speed range, right? I can fly from 30, 35 k's an hour to I think the fastest I ever flew was 165 k's an hour. Yeah, man. And then when we do these low passes and stuff, I'm guessing about 130 onto the ground. And then the energy retention on these gliders these days is just absolutely amazing. It's just absolutely ridiculous. It still keeps blowing my mind every time I do it.
So we had a talk. We did this kind of history of hang gliding show a few months back with Bruce Weaver out at Kitty Hawk and a bunch of others. And one of the thoughts to make hang gliding a lot more accessible was that these gliders that you're flying are not gliders you learn on. These are really tough. They take a lot of hours. And you got to have a lot of experience. And they're super fast. So their thoughts was like it's like this beginner thing and then there's no – they're really missing the middle ground of a glider that's fun, that's easy to set up, that's still super accessible. But it's not a $12,000 glider that's just carbon and all that stuff that goes into the wings that you're flying.
Would you agree with that? How do we get more people like you? How do we get more people like you young and passionate and into it? Because it seems like that's the problem, right? Am I oversimplifying that? But it seems like that's the problem with hang gliding is that the age is getting older and older. We're not attracting enough young people to the sport.
Yeah, it's true. I don't know. It is a conversation about how to grow the sport I have basically on a weekly basis with somebody because that's what I try to do. The thing is … I don't think so. I think there's enough steps of gliders to like work your way up. It's like the wheelswings sport 3 is like an awesome intermediate glider where you can fly XC but still be safe, have a light glider. The thing is like with the simplifying, obviously, we struggle. You need to set up a glider. It seems like a lot and it always depends where you go because if you look at all the old first hang glider pilot, they take an hour to set up a glider. Or half an hour to set up the glider and then it takes two hours to break it down and somebody lands and watches that.
It goes like, oh, I don't want to do that. But the truth is it doesn't take that much time. I can really – I can set up a glider and get ready to fly in 10 minutes if I want to.
Oh, that's the same as paragliding. That's not much different.
Yeah, I watch that sometimes. DCN VIA was pretty fun to watch sometimes. We came up and I was like, I want to go early today and I'm getting ready and there's somebody getting his plane. There's paraglider gear ready next to me. I'm like, that was about the same time. It's a little more work and there's a couple of battens to shove in but it's not that much more work to set up the glider. But I think it has like maybe a little bit of a wrong image or wrong picture sometimes because we got that massive thing you have to carry around in your car. I mean for me, the flying makes up for that little extra work I have to do.
You know what concerns me about what's happening? I think with hang gliding is like we've got some legends in this part of the world that – Frank Brown who died a couple of years ago. These guys that were back like with your dad. They started in the early 70s, mid-70s. Wills Wing comes around. It gets crazy. A lot of these folks are – they're old and they're dying and I feel like we're losing a lot of knowledge. Do you worry about that in the sport or is there still – there's Manfred and Christian Cech and all these people that I need to get on the show. But I kind of feel like we're losing knowledge, almost like that sailplane knowledge that's just so vast and something that we at our end of the sport, flying slow paragliders, we could really tap into and learn a lot about.
Yeah. There's definitely – it seems like in paragliding, there's a little more – people give out the knowledge a little more. There's books and there's all kinds of things about paragliding. Hang gliding has that too but there's definitely something missing to give that out sometimes and I don't know. For me, I – I don't know. It's hard to say. I'm lost now.
No. Yeah. I mean I just – yeah. You've been at it 19 years. You've kind of seen it from a lot of different directions but you're still young and there's not – I feel like a lot of these guys – we were just down in Nevada a few days ago. We had a big day. We had a big day across Nevada with Willie and Cody, the other two ex-Alps teams and we drove in this O-Ways and then there was a river that kind of blown out the road as dirt road and so we just walked up. We got up there and it kind of had that feel like, man, I bet we're the first people to ever fly here and then we're like, no way. Man, back in the day, hang gliding was so popular. I bet this place has been flown – it was a road all the way to the top. It was a perfect hangy launch. We thought, man, I bet the hangies have – used to fly this way. These guys just fly this all the time and we just – there's no IGC files.
There's no way – we don't have a way to even find out rather than asking. But I feel like – I don't know. I feel like we're on the precipice kind of of like losing this kind of book of great knowledge.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure about that. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of sites who've been flown all around the world where nobody even knows they've been flown and now it seems like they get new discovered. But the hangy baloney is just – it's just not the same. Well, back in the days, they freaking ran off everything, man. They just flew all these places. I mean there are so many places now. If you look in Southern California, you can't even fly anymore because it's full of houses, right?
Yeah. Yeah, that's a bummer, man. And I think with the drone thing coming on, we might be in real trouble losing a lot more.
I think so too. I just heard about they want to do something in Austria. And if they definitely want to – they're talking about making like a place where they can fly and test their drones. And it's like – it's right in like the best flying area at home. It's like – and they got a pretty good hand. I don't think they're going to achieve that, but I hope not because otherwise we lose some really good flying over the next couple of years.
Yeah, Amazon just announced they've gotten state okay for drone delivery of packages I think in Virginia or somewhere back east. And I was just thinking, man, the Amazon lobby is going to be a lot bigger than our lobby. Yeah. If they want that to pass through Congress, they're going to get it and we're not. There's just no way we can compete with the billions and billions and billions of dollars that these big companies have. And I worry about that. Maybe I shouldn't. It's just inevitable.
No, I'm pretty sure I worry about that too. I think about that too every time I see an article about some drone things because like I said, they're way bigger. We have no chance. We all got free flying in our heart. But free flying is going to get – It's going to get less and less and less unfortunately as this technology involves.
When I just ran into you out in California, you threw down some hours numbers that blew my mind. So you've been flying pretty seriously it sounds like for 19 years. I don't know how – you flew like how many days straight in Valle? I think you were like 60 or 30 or – I can't remember what you said, but you racked up a lot of hours down there. You've been pretty much on the road since then. That was back in January. How do you maintain your passion for airtime and for hours and how do you not get burned out?
Yeah, Valle was crazy. I spent three months in Valle and in the three months, I didn't fly seven days. In five days of them, I went to Cali to wheelswing for a few days to do some work and I actually took two days off flying. Other than that, I flew every day and I think I got 150 to 200 hours in the three months I was there.
Wow. Wow. That's incredible. Which at
this point, I was working. I was guiding there. I was helping Rudy with some hang gliding tours and guiding. That's definitely something your motivation gets a little less. We fly really every day, every day. But for me, I have so much passion for flying. I love it, man. Sometimes I'm like, I don't want to fly today and then I go anywhere and as soon as I'm in the air, I'm like, I'm so happy I went flying. It's just my happy place. As soon as I'm in the air, that's when I'm happy.
If I don't fly too many tandems, tandems is for me when I definitely kind of start losing passion a little bit because it just becomes work.
Yeah, I was going to say, you know, I've never been a tandem pilot. I've always avoided that just because I hear that from a lot of tandem pilots. Like, oh man, the number one way to lose your passion for flying is to do tandems and you're in a part of the world where you can do a lot. You know, you guys can lap like crazy there. How have you kind of approached maintaining that balance? Or is it just like the necessary? Is it necessary evil to pad the pockets and keep traveling again?
It's for me. I decided a few years ago when I got into the whole tandem thing, I do six months and then I do six months of my own flying and just a little bit of tandems. And that definitely helped being here in Interlaken. Now I fly a lot of tandems, but I still go free flying. I, you know, take my days off and go flying or go flying in between because that really recharges my batteries.
And it gets a little tough if you fly tandems for five months straight and fly all the time. You just don't want to go up that mountain anymore.
But as soon as I go, like I said, as soon as I go flying again, everything is good and I'm all happy again.
What part of the sport do you really get excited about? Because it sounds like you've had, you know, background and kind of everything. You went through this acro phase, you know, obviously cross country comps. Like when you, when you look ahead at this, the next year, what, what gets you most fired up? And why?
Um, for me right now, definitely speed flying. I love racing down mountains, finding new lines and, and just fly as fast as I can down some mountain faces. So
I don't, I don't understand what this is. What is, I didn't know that that was even a thing in hang gliding. Is this a different kind of wing?
No, no, it's my same angle. It's my same comp wing. I normally always speed, speed flying being around for a long time. They used to do competition. There used to be the Red Bull speed running kids. Speed. Which was a really big thing. Um, I think they had something in Aspen for a while, which was a big thing. Um, it's just basically same thing. The wingsuit is do just a little flatter terrain and little longer rounds because we could just play around a little more.
You just pointing it and staying right on the deck. Yeah.
Just points. They right on the deck, find like little ski slopes where you can go really close or close to the ground. And then like, you know, good spines. You can raise along and just fly these freaking. Epic mountain sites early morning and super calm conditions. Like that's for me. That's where I'm most focused. I can like go up a mountain and there's literally nothing else there than racing down that mountain. And I can just, you know, be full on in the zone.
So we're going to have all this in the show notes. We'll have the tumble and we'll have your 12 episode series of your trip across the U S. Um, and then we'll have some of this speed flying anything else. So those of you listening. Go check out the show notes and, uh, and we'll have, we'll have all of Wolfie's videos on this. Wolfie, tell me about the, tell me about this trip. I don't want to skip over this U S thing that you did. Cause that sounded pretty, pretty awesome.
Um, rid of a flight. I mean, I always want to do a big road trip about across the U S there's so many awesome flying sites. And then with the final touch in Moab, there was like something I was dreaming about for a really long time to fly under, under an arch of through an arch. Yeah. And I actually, after I got injured in, um, Columbia with my shoulder, I went to the pre-world in via and just hang out there and I was driving for, for my buddies and just hanging out there. And me and Jonas, who is a long time friend of mine from New Zealand, Jonas low bits. Um, we used to work in Stan will park Australia for two seasons together as tandem pilots. We always said, ah, let's do a road trip. And you know, it just all just grew into let's do this.
Let's do something bigger. Let's, you know, make some cool videos and show all these cool flying starts around the world and go from, from calm flying to mountain flying. We actually did a bivvy flight in Colorado. How did that,
how did that hold on? I gotta, I gotta understand how the baby fly. How did you guys tackle bivvy flying with hang gliders?
We actually, we, we made it pretty easy in ourselves. We, we, we had just some Falcons. So we had like some beginner gliders and we just took off in Aspen. And we kind of like try to find a spot where we can top land on a mountain, um, up on Google earth upfront. And then we just, you know, but like sleeping bags and some pots and everything we need in our harnesses on and on the crossbar of the glider. And I don't know what we flew. It was not that far. I think we flew like 30 case maybe down the range and found actually a super sick flat top mountain where we landed on. And then we just spent the night there.
And then flew
back the next day.
Have you ever looked at lines to do like a big bivvy trip with a hangy like a, like a Mongolia, you know, somewhere where there's, there's no trees and really grass covered mountains, but you know, nicer than the, than the Alps, a little more friendly. Is that, is that something that's kind of on your guys' radar?
Yeah, it's definitely on my radar. I got a massive list of ideas of things I want to do in angliding and, you know, go and explore that whole bivvy. I'm going to do a bivvy thing a little more. It's definitely something I want to do. Um, but things always need to line up and, you know, I've always about a million and two projects in my head and just see how things go, how money wise goes, what I can do. But it's definitely something I want to do. We've been talking about it since years. We should send, um, we actually should send an application to the X-Alps thing and say, uh, we want to compete in hang glider and see what they say.
Oh man. They would say yes for sure. Can you imagine? They'd love that. Oh my God. I mean, I want, I,
uh, SIPI, uh, SAC majors always said, we just, you know, we walk up to the guys' program, we fly the first day and then we just call it good. And we've been in the X-Alps, you know, but I think it will be, you know, I mean, obviously depends on the day. If you have like freaking two weeks of Epic flying and you really train hard, you maybe can walk your hang gliders up a few days, but definitely not what you guys are doing.
Yeah. I think that four or five times up Everest with a hang glider would be, would be a little too much crushing, but, but if you, if you could really send it, there just have to be different rules. Like your team could help or something, you know, something, I don't know. Yeah.
We were always talking about it and never, you know, never really went through with it when we do it one year, maybe somebody else is crazy enough after hearing that and say, yeah, that's a good idea. And does it, I hope will be pretty awesome to see.
That would be awesome to see. How do you, how do you compare, give the listeners that, you know, because a lot of people listening are, you know, have spent a lot of time in the Alps and a lot of people listening, spend a lot of time in the States, but not both. Compare the U S to, to where, you know, then that big trip you did compare the air, the, you know, what, what are the big differences that stand out?
It's really hard for me. Like, you know, we, we did some good mountain flying and. We did some good mountain flying and in Colorado and in Canada, which was super awesome. And I think that's pretty similar to flying here in the Alps. But then there's obviously all there, you know, massive terrains of like big flats, which we don't have here. We just have mountains and valleys and more valleys where you don't really want to land. But I think the big thing here in the Alps is like, you always find a town, right? There's always at every town. There's in every valley. There's a little town. And then there's so many places in the U S where you just completely no man's land and there's nothing there.
This, this flight we did the other day, it was, we basically crossed a big chunk of Nevada from, from west to east. And actually Cody made it into Utah at the end. He broke the state record that day, but it's just, you know, it's the most mountainous state in the U S which people don't realize more than Alaska. And, and, you know, you're just, so you're just range hopping, just mountain to mountain, to mountain, to mountain. And you're crossing these huge flats and there's no one for 200 miles. There was nothing, you know, you'd see a little dirt road, but I didn't see any people saw some cows, you know, you just, I didn't see any trucks. We didn't really get
to go like on our trip. We didn't, we never, we didn't really have a driver. It was just us two in a pickup truck. And we kind of always met up with locals and it was kind of the whole trip with more like flying with locals and going up and flying with, with people we met along the way. Or like reaching out to people. And then we reached out with them in front. There was more about like the community of flying and, you know, flight parts, which we don't really have here. Like the way they are in the States. Especially the air tow parks. We don't have that here in Austria, Switzerland. So, but we didn't really go, went really big, big XC, but I had like a few flights where I was just looked, there was a mountain range is like, yeah, there's nothing there for a long time.
I say in Europe, you like, you know, you go over a mountain range and there's maybe a big glacier, but after there is something and you always know you're going to find a town somewhere, you know.
Always. Paul, Paul Gushabaur came through here on his, when he was doing his bush plane thing from Alaska down to Argentina. And he came through town on a really good week. He nailed it. I think he broke his personal best that day. It was huge, you know, proper sun, sun Valley day. And, and he gave a presentation on the X-Alps. And, and he was, you know, you, you, some of this footage he showed was like busting through these coals and you're like, oh my God, there's nowhere to land. And he would, you know, he would say like, you're in the Alps. There's always a place to land watch. And then sure enough, it would clear up and there'd be a little village. I learned that the first couple of times I started flying in the Alps, I'd be like, oh my God, what's going to be on the other side of this? Oh, there's a village.
Yeah. There's always a mountain man. They always build a village somewhere in the mountains and just, yeah,
totally. Totally. And I mean, I think, I think the wildness here, I got a new perspective of that flying out in Santa Barbara, you know, so along the coast where you are, you know, where there's, there's like massive civil civilization. You're, you're, you're not that far from Los Angeles, but you punch it over the back one Ridge line and you might be out there for a couple of days. I like that. That is a deepness that even here in some Valley we don't have, I mean, it's, it's way more remote than California, but you know, you can kind of land most, you know, you can land in the middle of the mountain. You know, it's not like deep like that, where it's just miles of Chaparral and no trails and no roads, you know, there's, there's dirt roads. You're going to find a hunter. You're going to find somebody with a truck, you know, you might spend the night, but you're going to get a ride and man that I couldn't believe how close you were to LA and then how deep you were.
I mean, one move you go over the back there, man, you're in tiger country big time.
Yeah. I flew. What's that? That's I called further down event tour in the mountains.
Oh, hi.
Yes, exactly. I flew Ohio a few years ago and we flew towards the Owens and man, there's some, there's some big tiger country there. That's for sure.
Yeah. That first jump is intense. Just right there. You just like, Oh God. And then you'd make the next jump and you're out over the Mojave and it's all mellow. But man, that first one is like, Oh my God. I think that I think the European pilots would be like, Ooh, this is a little bit of pucker factor here.
Yeah, definitely. There were some, I mean, we were, we had a super high cloud base day and we got over there pretty quick. But I still looked at it and it was like, yeah, you don't want to land there. That's for sure.
Hey, I'm going to give you some rapid fire questions to kind of, and we, we got a lot to talk about. We can keep going, but I just want to, you don't have to answer these fast. They're just a bunch of different questions that I find kind of fun. I was listening to a podcast recently and these, these came up not for flying. It was totally different thing, but I've, I've changed them for flying. So if you had one piece of advice for someone to say, I'm not a pilot. I just want to succeed as a pilot. What would it be?
Fly, fly, fly just hours and hours, hours and hours. And you know, go fly, go flying with, you know, find a club flight and find out of people. So you can go fly with, talk to pilots and fly, fly, fly, fly, smart, fly in good conditions. Don't, don't push it. You got the entire life. You don't need to fly. You know, it's good to pack up on takeoff and not fly a day and just fly, fly, fly. I think. for me it's fly fly fly yeah
there's no there's no real shortcuts is there um if you could do one thing differently you're not far out of your 20s but if you could do one thing differently in your 20s what would it be
not much man i i did what i wanted to do my entire life i started flying and i probably would have not been as much as a dumbass and and started acro the way i did and nearly killed myself with dad okay
let's extend let's extend that question a bit this is one i ask all the time if you could rewind the clock it sounds like for you maybe when you were 15 but if you could rewind the clock to your 50 hour self so probably that first year you were learning what advice do you wish you would have received from you today like wolfie hey uh now that i'm in my 30s and i've flown for 19 years do this different way
um definitely like you got all the time in the world you got the entire life to fly i you know definitely pushed it a couple i was i was pretty lucky when i went flying with my dad a lot and without a family friends but there was definitely times i went flying i probably should have not gone flying because i was just super gung-ho and going flying and i need to fly today now who knows what the weather does next weekend and i need to go fly today but the thing is you got so many more so many more flying days ahead of you it doesn't matter if you break down your glider on takeoff
has there any been any real friction between your dad and you with flying has there ever been times where he's been you know just kind of like has to look away
yeah definitely um you know when i do my my speed flying and stuff and going close to the ground i i normally set myself a half a meter limit going to the ground and then i most of the time break that because i'm ground horny as we decided a few years ago we call it um you know he always says like oh just fly a meter off the ground or two meters off the ground it just looks as cool it's like yeah but you know because he sees the video but he doesn't see what i because i do that because i love that and you know i can have 10 cameras on my glider racing down a mountain all i think what's in front of me in the line and i've just got a massive smile on my face and you know it's just the ground rush the ground rush real it's closer to ground is you know more fun it is for me not to i kept i kept my i keep my limit and i'm i'm pretty smart i definitely a couple of years ago i was like not doing that and as you get older you just give yourself a little bit of a limit but it seems it's even if you watch the video people go like you're completely stupid but if you're actually in the moment and doing it and be like oh i'm not doing that i'm not doing that i'm not doing that right there you got it it's a different thing right and you just don't do that and with the conditions so if it's bumpy or the conditions are not good i pack up and you know i just fly down normally i i pull away from the hill and i stop doing it but then i don't post the video and two days later i do it racing down the mountain in perfect conditions and it looks all rad and good but there people don't see how much work and effort you put into doing something like that um
have you ever gone got into base jumping and wingsuiting um
no i don't i have uh i skydive a little bit and i have 10 jumps of britches on a base jumping gear but that's it never been in a wingsuit or something like that kind of interested in it especially living here very close where it all happens just you know a couple of k's from the valley but for me if i would get interested i'm more interested in the in the idea of jumping off a cliff and just tracking away than actually wingsuiting because i feel like if i want to go fly i'm going to do that in angleter yeah
sure uh okay back to these questions 10 years from now what do you think you'll regret doing too much or too little of huh
um it's hard to say i've you know i fly a lot i it's all i want i don't know it's really hard to say i don't think so anything i you know i'm pretty happy right now and i don't and i think in 10 years i'm pretty happy what i did the last 15 20 years what
is the most important non-flying thing you can do to become a better pilot i
think watching videos on on the internet and and seeing what other people make mistakes is a good thing to learn yeah it's kind of still flying but not really
yeah you're still putting it in your head yeah
you're still putting in your head and you know seeing some I think seeing some of these accidents is, uh, it's good. It's a good learning curve for, for pilots. And, you know, if you have that and you had to see that before your chances of when it happens to you, you can react a little faster, definitely way higher.
I just did a review, uh, for Maxime's, uh, the first of his, it's two books, uh, performance flying. I just did a review of the first one for cross country. And I really enjoyed that. I've, you know, Burkhardt Martin's books on thermal flying and, you know, there's, there's lots of good books out there. Dennis Pagan's done a ton of stuff. You know, his secrets of champions is still one of my yearly reads and that's all hang gliding, you know, and I'm not a hang glider, but I still think there's just so much valuable information there. But I find that, you know, especially in winter on a rainy day or something, I find tapping into those is, you know, is, is always a good thing just to, just to, I find that, you know, like I've had a lot of injuries in my life, not from paragliding, thankfully, but, you know, from other sports. And, you know, when you, when you get.
It's always like, oh man, darn it. And then, but then you, you know, that separation from whatever it is you were chasing often makes you better when you come back to it. You know, you haven't had the hours, you haven't had the time, but you've had the perspective and you get, you can come back to it and often be, at least for me, it'd be better than you were.
Yeah. Yeah. For me, I don't know. It's hard because I've not really had any time off from flying in the last five years, I think. Um, basically. That's all I do. If I don't fly tandems, if it's a rainy day, like today, I'm not flying, but otherwise I'm always somehow in the sky. It's all about, it's all about getting more, how to get more time in the sky than on the ground. Right.
Yeah. Yeah, totally. There's nothing that replaces hours. I get that email all the time. Hey man, I, I only have this much time out. How can I become an awesome comp pilot? I was like, yeah, there's no shortcuts, man. You got to get the hours. That's it. I mean,
reading, reading these books and, you know, getting that, that basic. Knowledge is really good, but for me it's, it's all about the hours and experiencing it in the sky. That, well, it helps me a lot. And I just felt that now again, um, after not flying so many comps and just doing tandems for a while, just Mexico, just flying for three months. It's like, you know, I take off and I'm going my harness and I'm, I'm there. I'm like in the zone straight away. And it's like, I don't need a few minutes to like get settled in or something, you know, it's like, I'm always right. There because I had just been flying so much. And I think that's what helps me at least the most. I need, I need fly. I need hours to fly good, especially in call.
I've been surprised with, so this has been a really big year for me for flying. Cause of course the X helps coming up, but, um, it only takes a little while for being away from it. And then I'm right back in that. I mean, I get back in the zone faster because of all the hours, but you know, if I'm away from it for a couple of weeks, I'm the next time I'm in the air, I'm like uncomfortable, you know? I'm a little bit scared and a little bit, you know, it takes a couple of days. It's just, there's nothing that replaces hours. Yeah.
It definitely, it definitely helps. It's like, you know, I learned that when I was a younger pilot and you know, we roll, I, you know, for the longest time I had until I was 20 or something, I had a normal job and just, you know, work weekdays and went flying on the weekends and, and then took winters off and just go on little trips to Italy or something. And then you go on like a week trip and like two day, day four, day five, all of a sudden you go like, man, I'm like full on. I'm in the zone, you know, it's like so easy. And I just talked to my brother who just did that last year. He said the same thing. He's like, you know, it takes me always a while to get back into it, but then I go on a trip and, and it's just, everything is just in tune. You know, it just know what's happening, you know, what do you need to do? It's like for me, nothing replaces hours. That's I,
this isn't part of my rapid fire questions here, but just made me think you've done a lot of traveling. It sounds like what are, what, what's your favorite place to fly? Yeah. And what's on your checklist? You know, what, what's on your, God, I can't wait to fly that Favorite
place to fly. It's definitely still at home in the mountains. I love the mountains. There's just nothing more stunning than just, you know, flying on 3000 meters over some mountain peaks. And that's where I learned to fly. That's where, you know, got most of my flying in the beginning. And I mean, there's so many stunning places. It's so hard to say. I get that question all the time. What's your favorite place to fly? And it's like, there's a million cool places. I just, you know, I just had an awesome time in Brazil, Mexico, Valle is freaking cool to fly. It's like, everything is different. Like there's so many good flyings, but if I have to pick one place, I'd definitely say the Austrian mountains home.
That's nice. And so it's always good to like home. And what about, what about what's on your, what's on your tick list?
My tick list. There's, there's a lot of things on my tick list. Like a lot of things. I really, I want to fly Patagonia. I think that will be a very stunning place to fly.
Um, I really would like to fly in Iceland. Hmm. Um, just cool.
There's a, there's a pretty good, there's a pretty good club there. There's a lot of pilots in Iceland. I had no idea.
Yeah. I researched it a little bit. There's, there's a hang gliding club and paragliding club and there's some good flying there. And it's just, just one of these lists. It just needs to line up one day that I can go and do it. I can do that. But yeah, that's definitely that. I mean, I just recently had probably one of my biggest dreams in flying, um, came true. Like one of these flights, like I always wanted to do as long as I remember seeing photos in magazines and it just happened actually like month and a half ago in Brazil. Ooh, do tell. I, uh, the crystal flight, the famous crystal flight in Rio. It's like, you know, it's like one of these things. It's like, it needs to line up, especially when we go, we fly into Rio and then we go somewhere for a calm, but then you have two more days in Rios and it never really works out and you just need the right day.
And I'm Johnny Duran, Rory Duncan and I just like month and a half ago we got there and all the locals were like, no, no, today is not a crystal day. Today's not a crystal day. And then one guy was like, you guys should wait. And we were like, you guys can sink out now and fly to the beach in 10 minutes or you just sit a couple of hours up here. And wait. So we just waited and then they just turned on and it took us a while to get there because it's normally it's like a two climb flight, maybe a one climb flight. And it took us a while. We were soaring over the favelas for like 45 minutes and the same altitude before the wind turned back on. And yeah, there's just two more climbs and we just glided to the crystal and it was super spectacular.
It was like cloud base was right on the base of the crystal. So it, he came in and out of the cloud constantly, constantly. And we're gliding over and Johnny's done that flight five, six times. So he kind of like showed us the way and Rory and I kind of followed him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. getting tears in my eyes a little bit because it's like, that was such a big dream flight I wanted to do.
Ah, cool. That's pretty neat that, you know, that a flight that doesn't really require, you know, huge distance or, you know, huge commitment or something, but it's so special. I mean, really with the right conditions, probably a pretty simple flight for you guys, but yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, it was a little tricky that day, but normally it's a pretty simple flight for the locals, but it's one of these flights that just, you know, everything needs to just line up and you can go to a place for 10 years and never get it. And then one day you're just in the right place at the right time and you get these really special, special flights.
Brazil's got so much good flying. I was watching the Superfinal from afar this year and man, that Baixu Guandu area is just crazy looking. It's like land of the lost. It's beautiful. I've only flown the Sertau.
Yeah, we were like, what, not far away? We were in Valadares at the same time. I said, there's, it's a Superfinal. We didn't really have the best weather. I think they flew a little more than we did, but yeah, it's pretty awesome. I love Brazil. There's some really good flying for Brasilia where we go. There's a comp every year. It's absolutely insane, cool flying. And I've not been to the Northeast yet, but I think that's one of my list plans for this fall. Let's see how things work out. Hopefully I can go. Yeah, there was a
whole crew flying to SEMA when I was in there. The, I think, the Austrian or German girl broke the female record the year I was there, but man, that's a patience game. Holy cow. I mean, they sit there for a month and get like three flights. Yeah. It's brutal. It's a different, it's a, it's type two fun for sure.
It's a different kind of flying, right? You just wait for that one day and you just wait for that day.
Yeah. I mean, you go out there at 5 30 and you know, 80 % of the time you just go back to the hotel and sit there all day, you know, it's, it's, it's a tough go, but, but it's a good spot for it. For a long runway, you can go a long ways. Um, okay. Back to these questions. What negative experience in your life, one that you would not want to repeat has had the most profoundly positive effect on who you are.
Probably that my accidents, all three of my accidents definitely changed a lot, especially the one in Elsinore. It just changed a lot of my perspective on many things.
Talk about that.
Uh, it just, you know, it just, Elsinore was definitely the closest. I came off, you know, dying in a hang, in a hang glider.
And I definitely have a different, I still like now I'm, I'm over the tumble and I feel like I'm over and I can fly in, in, uh, in strong lift again and strong thermals and don't be scared anymore. But I still got it in my mind. It's like, you know, you look down and you go like, Oh, if I throw a parachute here, it doesn't end that well, you know, it's like, maybe I shouldn't fly in there and I just, you know, look a little fly a little smarter. Definitely fly a little fly a bunch smarter. Mm.
Mm. Gave me the perspective that you thought you had, but you, you needed it.
Man, we've, we flying and we flying and we can't see the air, right? We flying in this big thing we can't see. And I always say if we would have goggles and we could see the wind and the thermals, we would maybe fly 5 % of the time. We really fly.
It had to be terrifying. I love it. I don't want, I don't want those goggles to be invented.
Nope. Me either. I like to live in the, in the black when it comes to that.
Yeah. I mean just any number of places, you know, I mean in the race that's about to come up, if I, if I had those goggles on, I'd just be on the ground the whole time. I mean, we're flying in the Lee of the Alps the whole way, you know, we're flying against the wind pretty much the whole way. I don't want to see that. Yeah. I just want to tuck in and know that I'm going to get a Lee side climb and get out.
No. But you know, you fly over the years, it's just learning fly smarter and get a little less gang ho and push into stupid valleys where you, you maybe not get up. I just, but then there's comp flying where you still do that because you're in a calm mode and you don't even think about it. I just, I just had a pre, not a sketchy landing, but a little tiny landing spot in Florida at a comp because I, you know, I was about to land out 10 K short of goal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.! And I'm like, I'm going to get up there. And then as soon as I get to the birds, I'm not even looking at the ground. I kind of saw that it was a landing below me, but then I'm flying over the next tree line because I, all I look is at these birds cause I'm like, I'm going to get up there. And then as soon as I get to the birds, I go like, I'm way too low to get up here.
Where do I land now? And you know, that's comp flying where you're just like do stupid things, you know? And, but I definitely did like improve a lot over the years and just trying not to push it so much anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.! Yeah.
Yeah. And those kinds of situations are so, man, they're tough. I mean, cause if you don't do that, you're not going to win, you know? And, uh, and then if you do do it and screw up or get hurt, then you're like, ah, what am I doing? What an idiot. Yeah. You know, it's just a fine line. We're walking, we walk it all the time. Well, we fly it, fly it all the time. Yeah.
The thing is if we, since we fly a lot and you know, it's the same in paragliding and hang gliding. It's like, I'm pretty confident to land in pretty small fields. So it's okay for me to push in there. There was the, we have the world championships this year in Italy. And last year at the pre-world, there was a lot of people complaining about how the sketchy place, there's not that many landings and there's some places, some turn points is not so good. But then you talk to people like Manfred, Manfred goes like, I fly into the valley. I know there's a landing in there. It's very small, but I can land there. That's why I fly in there. If I wouldn't be confident to fly in there, I wouldn't fly in there. But then there's people who just see all they see is the fricking turn point and the error on their GPS and they fly in there and then in there and be like, Oh, what do I do now?
It's like planning ahead and just like knowing your skills and how much you can pull off. Right.
Yeah. We're going to get Manfred on the show here shortly. I'm bringing all my gear to Europe, but is Manfred your Chrigel?
I'd say so.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in, in secrets of champions and I know that was, you know, that was what, late nineties, early 2000. I mean, he was like unbeatable.
Yeah. He's he, and he's still, he's, he's a bird man, you know, he's just a different level of flying and so all he does is all he does. And it's still all he does. He just flies. I think he flies a bunch of Swifts and stuff too, but he's still, he's the bird man for sure.
So what, what do you guys, you know, when you're sitting around with your crew and Zach and Johnny and the guys you're all traveling with and stuff because we have the same conversation about Chrigel. What is it? What are the things that you guys go, okay, we got to get better at this and that and this and that like Manfred is or is it just like, yeah, he's just a bird? Because Chrigel is a bird.
Yeah, it's basically the same with Manfred. I mean I know Manfred since I'm – as long as I remember I know Manfred because he's been around to comps from my parents and stuff and then when I started flying or when I started competing when I was 18, I hang out a bunch with him and we did quite a few comps together and you ask him something and it's like, how did you do that? And he's like, oh, I just pushed out a little more. Like we had a comp. I think that was in Lanzarote. We did a comp and him and I were in front and we were like, oh, I'm going to do this. And we're coming back, last climb to get the last turn point and go to goal and we come back to take off and we're at the same height and there's like nothing there and I'm just like circling in zero and he just climbs out and you go like, what the fuck happened there?
And then you ask him after and he goes like, just pushed out a little more. It was not that hard. And you go like, really? Really? Like it seemed to me. It's like Manfred is always like – he doesn't really tell you so much either. He gives you some information but he doesn't really give you what you want to learn or what you want to know.
I've actually been warned of that by a number of you that, oh man, it would be great to have him on the show but good luck. Yeah, I'm going to be
very curious. I hope you get something out of him. Every time I try or most of us try, it's like you get a little bit but you don't really get what you want. I want some of your knowledge, dude. Just hand it over. Just hand it over and he just –
My guess is that he's not being protective of the knowledge. He just doesn't understand how to say it. I think there's a lot of people like that. I mean it's probably like trying to become a better surfer from Kelly. I mean he just does what he does. He's Kelly Slater. He trains hard. He practices harder than anybody. But handing that off is a different thing. It's like he's using his toes and his heels slightly different. I mean just the weight of the board and the transition. I mean all these things that are probably just a little bit beyond most people's reach. It's not really something that can be explained.
No, I'm pretty sure and I'm pretty sure that's the same with Manfred. Yeah, he just – he's been flying for so long and it's so natural. He's a bird man. I think that puts it to the point. But we're going to see. He has a son who I think just learned how to fly the last few years. Let's see. We all worry because we're all like, well, there's something else that's going to kick our ass in a few years.
Yeah, man. In the last X-Alps, we were sitting in the rain before the start. I was sitting right next to Chrigel and he started showing me videos of his kids who I think were six and nine at the time, both of them flying. I thought, oh, God, there's no hope for us. Yeah. Can you imagine being his kid learning at that age? It's just like, yeah. I learned how to paraglide when I was 36. I think I'm a little behind the eight ball.
Yeah, I think so. And I think it's going to be the same with Thomas and Manfred. I hope not. I mean, I hope and I hope not. I hope for him, but I hope not for us that we get an ass hand.
Because Manfred still shows up and just kicks ass, right?
That's awesome. How old is he?
I have no idea.
I don't know. But I think he's coming to the world, to Italy very soon.
Cool. It'll be fun to watch him. I'm going to watch him.
Everybody's worried already.
I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. No, that's just like when Chrigel shows up. Everybody's worried. Wolfie, thanks so much, man. I really appreciate this. I appreciate you giving me the time. And we've been trying to do this for quite a long time. And just thanks for sticking with it. But I hope to see you here soon. The race is coming right through your backyard. So I hope to see you out there. And good luck with your tandem season. We didn't get to talk about tandems too much. But we'll see you next time. We'll see you out for another one. But thanks, man. I appreciate it.
Yeah. Thank you so much, Gavin. It was fun talking to you. And yeah, see you here pretty soon. Let's hope the snow melts a little more so you guys don't need to walk around in snow so much with us. It
sounds wet and cold, man. Yeah. I hope so. I mean,
it's what? It's beginning of May. And we just had snow on takeoff two days ago. And I think there's more snow coming in a few days, which is very scary. I'm sitting in my van with the heater on. And in May, it's not really.
Yeah. We're a month away. We need a change for it to be drier. I've already started packing. I've got my 12 pairs of shoes out there. But none of them are very good in the wet. So I'm going to have to rethink that.
Yeah. I think you do. Well, it's good talking to you. And yeah, come by here. And if you have some time before the training, I'm in Interlaken. Let's go fly. Or if you guys fly around. You guys have a turn point here, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Iger.
Yeah. Iger and
Titlis. So yeah, that's going to be a really cool part of the course. And of course, it's Kriegel's backyard. So I'd love some local knowledge. That'd be terrific. I'll come say hi when we get there.
Oh, we're definitely going to try to fly. I flew two years ago. I flew with you guys a little bit. Rob Mintzberg, when you guys came over the back, I actually flew there and flew with a couple of guys. I flew with Paul into the Oudstall. Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So it's going to be fun watching you guys fly. And maybe get a couple of turns in with you guys.
That'd be terrific, man. Love it. Well, cool, man. Wolfie, thanks so much. I appreciate it. And yeah, see you here in a few weeks.
Cool, man. Thank you so much. Cheers, bud.
If you find the CloudBase Mayhem valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher or however you get your podcasts. That goes a long ways. And help spread the word. You can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media. You can talk about it on the way up to launch with your pilot friends. I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way. And of course, you can support us financially. This show does take a lot of time, a lot of editing, a lot of storage and music and all kinds of behind-the-scenes costs. So if you can support us financially, all we've ever asked for is a buck a show. And you can do that through a one-time donation through PayPal or you can set up a subscription service that charges you. For each show that comes out, we put a new show out every two weeks. So for example, if you did a buck a show and every two weeks, it'd be about $25 a year.
So way cheaper than a magazine subscription. And it makes all of this possible. I do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors. We get asked about that pretty frequently. But for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show, I don't want to do that. I don't like having that stuff at the front of the show. And I also want you to know that these are authentic conversations with real people. And these are just our opinions. But our opinions are not being skewed by sponsors or advertising dollars. I think that's a pretty toxic business model. So I hope you dig that. You can support us. If you go to cloudbasemayhem.com, you can find the places to support. You can do it through patreon.com forward slash cloudbasemayhem. If you want a recurring subscription, you can also do that directly through the website. We try to make it really easy. And that will give you access to all the bonus material, a little video cast that we do and extra little nuggets that we find.
And conversations that don't make it into the main show, but we feel like you should hear. We don't put any of that behind a paywall. If you can't afford to support us, then just let me know and I'll set you up with an account. Of course, that'll be lifetime. And hopefully you're being in a position someday to be able to support us. But you'll find all that on the website. All of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought CloudBase Mayhem merchandise, t-shirts or hats or anything, you should be all set up. You should have an account. You should be able to. You should be able to access all that bonus material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support and we'll see you on the next show. Thank you.
Thank you.