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there everybody, welcome to another episode of the Cloud Based Mayhem. These are still coming to you from on the road. I'm still out in Santa Barbara training. I was down in Marshall with Reavis and Ben for a few days. Got some great flying and a lot of Red Bull logistics stuff sorted out. So that was fantastic. I'm back up in Santa Barbara. I'll be here for another couple days. I'm actually right in the middle of a three day simulation. But I just wanted to bang out this intro so we can still get a show up on time. Great show for you today with Travis Burke. A lot of you I'm sure are familiar with that name. I follow him, started following him a few years ago on Instagram. Now along with almost a million people and he's got 800 and something thousand followers. So he wouldn't like this term but he's one of these people referred to as an influencer.
And is an athlete and photographer. Really talented photographer and shoots surf and skate and climbing and all kinds of uh, sports. Kind of I guess more on the extreme end of things. But recently got into flying and I always think it's fun to talk to folks who are really just getting into it. And see what their perspective is. He and his good friend who manages his business, David Hatfield, drove up here from San Diego. And we had a really nice XC flight here in Santa Barbara together. And then we sat down and had a talk. In some ways I feel like this was kind of a missed opportunity. Because we had this really interesting talk on the way up to launch. Just about, you know, the pros and cons of social media.
And as I've alluded to in the last few episodes, I really feel like, you know, Facebook has pretty much a monopoly on social media. Owning Instagram and WhatsApp. And clearly played a major factor in our last election. And anyway, I think the business model for these companies. That facilitate data transaction. It's free to the user. But that's how they make their money. Is a really flawed and toxic business model. You name it. Google, Amazon. Anyway, that's not my job. And that's not what we talk about here on the show. But I just, I do think that world is pretty fascinating.
And I wanted to get into. Because I have quite a strangled relationship with that. And I imagine many of you. Are not. I'm not sure what you would do with the addiction side of it. And just the sponsorship side. And how to be authentic. And still use it. Or should we not use it at all. And he and I had a pretty good talk about that. And then we didn't really talk about it. I just felt like it was kind of complicated to talk about in the actual show. And didn't think you would be interested in it. But then I realized when we were done. That if I'm interested in it. Probably you all or many of you all are as well. So I apologize for that. That is kind of a missed opportunity. The other thing that we decided actively to not talk about. And then also thought. Man, maybe we should have. He was given a wing by Ozone.
Right up front. Very early on. Today, you know. Well, when we recorded this. The day we had our XC flight from here in Santa Barbara. Was literally his first XC. Travis has about 100 hours. But most of those are ridge soaring at Torrey Pines. Which, you know. I've told you. I've told some other people. And you know. Folks. A lot of people would say. Like, oh. Those kind of hours don't even really count. Which is probably an interesting thing to, you know. Discuss. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And weigh in on that. You know. Certainly launching and landing is always good hours. And it doesn't matter where you get them. But anyway. What I'm trying to say is. You know. Very, very novice pilot. Just shot a big commercial with Toyota. That featured paragliding. And so that was another thing.
That we didn't really get into. But. I thought. Gosh man. If people find out that you're getting wings. And you're just learning how to fly. That's probably going to infuriate people. But you know. Like the. With the Superfinal just wrapped up. And I would imagine there's only a couple of the top. Maybe 30 pilots down there. At the Superfinal. Like the best pilots in the world. That are actually getting wings for free. You know. There might be the homie discount. Or the team pilot discount. That kind of thing. But you know. It's folks like Travis. That have a ton of reach. And that can get it. And really in my opinion should. Because they can bring a whole new audience. To our sport. And grow the sport. And so it was pretty proactive for Ozone to see that.
And then I also get a ton of questions all the time. From people going. Hey how do I get. You know. Can you introduce me to so and so. And how do I get sponsored. And my usual response is like. Hey man. Just get a better job. And buy the gear. It's a lot of work. And it's. You know. When I introduce folks like that. It's you know. It's kind of. It's very rarely a win-win. You know. The chances for under-livery. Or through the roof. You know. It's unless you're really. That's what you do. Like Travis does. If you're a content provider. Then you know how to do that. If you don't. It's pretty tough. It's pretty hard to make. You know. Getting a free wing. And covering that 3,500 euros. In terms of content. You know. And providing that ROI. Back to a company. Is pretty hard to do.
So. Anyway. That was another subject. We didn't really discuss. And again. I apologize for that. I do feel like this was kind of a missed opportunity. But we did cover a lot of ground. Not a lot of it flying. But mostly. You know. The business side. And the photo side. And you know. He's had a very interesting arc to his business. Which I thoroughly enjoyed. So I think you will as well. Before we get to the show. A couple little bits of housekeeping. One is. I'm a little sensitive to. You know. I try to get guests. That are representative from all over the world. I haven't been able to do that. Since I've been on the road. I've got a ton of great ones lined up. Wolfgang Seiss. The hang gliding show. And Marcella. Who just broke the female distance record.
Down in Brazil. And Maxine Bellaman. Who just released his new book. Performance Flying. And I've actually got a review of that. In the next cross country magazine. So. Some great interviews coming up. I just have not had the internet. To be able to do those. As I typically do on Skype. So I've had to find people. More locally to do these. And that those happen to be Americans. Like with the last show. With Rob Sporer. We've got another show coming up. With J.K. Nichols. About TEM. He's an airline pilot. Who's you know. That threatened air management. That they use flying airplanes. Is super relevant. And I think pretty interesting. To free flight. So. Bear with us. I'm sorry. We haven't had that kind of typical mix. We usually do. But that's just been logistically tough.
With me being on the road. The other thing. I just want to bring up. The some of the advice. In the Rob Sporer show. Which I totally agree with. I got some feedback from some listeners. That you know. Felt like the advice about trees. Are always your friend. And the advice about reserves. Maybe needed to be expanded on a little bit. You know. That they. Maybe we came across. In the podcast. That they were infallible. I don't really think we came across that way. But you know. Certainly. Those two things are. You know. For the most part. Work really well. Trees typically are your friend. And reserves do work. Just period. So. But of course. They aren't infallible.
And these guys reached out. And had pretty serious accidents. One from a reserve. Another one from a tree. Of course. That happens. But I still think the messaging. Is totally accurate. You know. That you make a low rash. Really quick turn. Low to the ground. To not hit a tree. Your chances of getting really hurt. By spinning the glider. Or something. Go way up. I'd rather just. You know. I'd. For the most part. You can just fly into that tree. And have much better odds. And then the other thing. Is just reserves. Just hands down. Period. They are actually pretty infallible. Of course. There are. You know. Your. Your risks. Are still. You know. It's. It's free flight. You still have the risk. Of something going wrong. But. For the most part. They work really well. And will at least.
You know. Instead of. Death. Or a broken back. You know. You're looking at an ankle. Or something else. So. Anyway. But I did. I appreciated that feedback. They're absolutely correct. They're not infallible. And. You know. Good things to discuss. I think that's it. With the housekeeping. I am right now. Transitioning us over. From Patreon. As I've said. In the last couple shows. To our own. Subscription service. So. That will be live here. Any day. But. As I've said before. Just stick where you are. For right now. Until we get that all solidified. And tested. And making it work. So. We're getting close. And. Yep. Also. The X-Alps is getting close. We're. Closing down here. Quite a bit less than three months to go. So. Stay tuned. For more.
Exciting. Content. Coming out of that whole. Crazy madness. Please enjoy this show. For now. With Travis Burke. Cheers.
Travis. Thanks for coming on the Mayhem. It was really cool. Having a flight with you today. That was. That was really neat. With David. And. It's good. Good to see you guys up here. In Santa Barbara. And. Always special for me. To be able to do. You know. Quote unquote. Live show. Have you sitting here. In the. In the. Glamping mobile. But. Welcome.
Yeah. Thank you. Super stoked to be out here. We had a. Crazy flight. My first kind of. Cross country. So that was exciting. And. Yeah. Stoked to be here.
Yeah. That was. Special. Share the sky with you. Knowing you hadn't really gone XC. So. That was. That was really fun. I thought we'd start with. You know. You and I were talking today. After our first flight. About some of the things. That kind of. Took you down this road. But. Pretend you're at a party. And you're introducing yourself. How do you describe. Yourself. To somebody that doesn't know. Like what you do. And. And. And who you are.
Yeah. I guess I would say. I'm a photographer. Athlete. And content creator.
Okay. And. Does the. Is. Is the new terminology. Is influencer. Do you kind of. Would that. You wouldn't say that at a party. I think. But is that kind of. Is that how that works.
I don't typically. Like to use that. Myself. But it is a term. That I think would. Describe what I do. Pretty well. Yeah. But. I just try and. Approach it different. I'm a photographer. By trade. So. Just so happened. To have built an audience. On social media.
And how did. How did that all. Happen. Was your background. In photography. Did you study it in school. Or. How did you get into this.
Yeah. I guess I kind of started. In the. I grew up in San Diego. I grew up in the. Surf. And skate. Industry. Skateboarding. And. Just. Had a background. I always loved to try. Different sports. A little bit of everything. So. Mountain biking. And. Rock climbing. Riding a unicycle. Almost anything. That kind of just pushed me. Kind of mentally. And physically. After high school. I didn't really know. What I wanted to do. I knew. I wanted something. Creative. Hands on. And. Hadn't found that yet. So. I didn't go straight into college. And. Started working at. Different warehouses. For. Surfing. And skateboarding. And. Doing a little bit of everything. Bagging groceries. At grocery stores. Being a. Busboy. At restaurants.
Even. One of my more classic jobs. Was. A fire safety job. And. Through the night. We would. Go up into these restaurants. After they shut down the kitchen. And actually crawl. Up into the grease traps. And the ventilation systems. It was still super hot. From the. Stoves and ovens. Being on all day. And we would just. Scrape the grease. Out of the insides. Of these things. With cockroaches. And rats. And it gets in your hair. And we're spraying chemicals. And. Uh. To try and. Get the grease. Kind of break down the grease. And you're just inhaling that stuff. And. We do that from about. Nine o 'clock at night. Till. Six in the morning. And then we'd go. Me and my buddy would. Jump in the water. Do a quick surf. To try and get the grease off. And. I'd uh. Go to school.
And I was doing. A little bit of random. Community college stuff. At the time. But. It wasn't until. My parents were actually. Hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. From the border of Mexico. All the way up to Canada. They're in their 50s. And 60s. And. I didn't think they'd. Really get very far. But. I told them if they made it. To Yosemite National Park. I'd come up and visit them. They had. A decent amount of experience. Backpacking. But. That's a gnarly hike. For anybody. So. A lot of people at Trider. In their mid 20s. Just out of college. What's the
full distance on that? Cause they did the full thing right? They started at the border? Yeah. I don't remember.
It's a couple thousand miles. Yeah. Ended up. They ended up completing it. And it took. Just over five and a half months. Wow. For them. To
do it full
time. Every single day. Like. They put in about. I think they average 18 miles a day. Wow. Like 40 pound packs. Good for them. And all different types of terrain. You could imagine. Deserts. And snow. And. Once you get up. Yeah. Into Oregon. It's just wet. And rainy. And miserable. And. Yeah. I gained a lot more respect for them. After that. I mean. Was there.
I know this is. About you. But. Was there. What was their background? Were they. Hikers? Were they. You know. Outdoorsy people? Or. Is this. Is this just on a whim? Or did they. You know. They're a little more prepared than that.
Yeah. Definitely outdoorsy. We grew up camping. We had a little tent trailer. And we do. You know. Fishing. With my dad. And different trips. Since as long as I could remember. So. Always loved the outdoors. They skied. That's how they actually met. Was skiing. And so. Always outdoorsy people. And. Basically. Their. Their retirement. Trip. For themselves. Was the. Pacific Crest Trail. So. Cool. They planned it for. For quite a few years. They did the John Muir Trail. As like. Training. And successfully did that. So. They had some warm up. They had about four years of. Planning. Before they actually did it. So. It wasn't just. Out of nowhere. But. At the same time. There's still so many variables. That. Come into play with something like that.
That. Yeah. It. It was impressive. Was
it really good for them? It was. It was a couple. And. You know. I mean. Obviously. They've been together a long time. But.
Yeah. I think. They say. I think with any. Long distance. Backpacking trip. Or even. Road trip. I spent four years in a van. Traveling around. But. Any relationship where you're. With somebody. 24-7. Stuck in these. Tiny confined spaces. You go through the highs. And lows. And. Sure. Can't really get away from each other. Even if you want to.
Really test you. So. I think for them. And for most people. Who do something like that. It'll either. You'll come out stronger. And. Kind of knowing that. That you're. We're toast. You're fully in it. And. Compatible. Or you'll come out. And know that you're. It's not really working. And kind of split from there. But for them. It all worked out. And. Yeah. They. They do really well together. They. They do pretty much everything together. So. Yeah. It was a great experience. Probably. I think for them. Experience of a lifetime. So. Yeah. It was really cool. But. To get back to. The story. I. I told them. I'd meet them. In Yosemite National Park. If they. Even made it that far. And. After a couple weeks. They told me. You know. They're getting close. So. I decided. I was working all those random jobs.
Had some extra money. Decided I'd buy some. Over the top. Camera. I had no idea how to use it. But. Like. Oh. I'm going to Yosemite. I'll be Ansel Adams. And. Take all these pretty pictures. And so. I packed up my truck. I had a little Toyota Tacoma. With a camper shell. And. Threw all my gear in there. And decided to do a little solo road trip. Up to Yosemite. Spent time with them. Hung out. And. After that. Kind of just stuck around. Yosemite. And. Hiked Half Dome. And. What I realized with. Photography. Is instead of just walking past. A scene. And acknowledging. And being like. Wow. This is really pretty. And then continuing on. It really made me stop. And slow down. And. Try and capture it. So I'd be. With the new camera. I'd be like. How do I get the composition. And the angle. And the colors.
And. I really spent more time. Just. Absorbing it. Kind of in the moment. And trying to. Capture that. In the best way possible. And even just the little things. Like we had. I remember. I was just by myself. Taking a break. And I saw these ants. Kind of crawling. Across this log. Like whoa. This is awesome. I got out my macro lens. And I could see all the details. And I'm laying on this log. Just taking pictures of ants. And if I didn't have my camera. I wouldn't have even. You know. Really looked at it. Or thought anything. Yeah. Yeah. But. Yeah. So it really made me just. Look at everything. In a. New way. A new perspective. And spend more time. Appreciating. All of those. Little moments. And trying to capture them. So. Some people say that the camera. Is like a disconnect for them. They're focused on. Settings. And all these things. And they're not present.
But for me. I've. I've always found that I. I feel like I'm more. Present. And appreciate moments. More. And for longer periods of time. With the camera. So. I would even go out at night. On that first trip. Into the valley. And. Have the moon coming over. The valley. And trying to capture that. Completely. In the dark. I. Don't think I had a tripod. It was all blurry. And out of focus. But. It just. I was just stoked to be out there. And trying to capture it. And. Otherwise. I just would have been asleep. In my tent. And. You know. Not really. Experiencing those beautiful moments. So. That was kind of the start of photography. For me. I went back home. And. I was doing some community college classes. Woodworking. And. Graphic design. And. Architectural.
You know. Classes. And. I. Kind of dropped all those. And switched to photography. And. Really hit it. Full speed. From there. And. Started assisting other photographers. And. Going home. I. I didn't just want. The base knowledge. That the classes were giving me. I would. Do research. And I'd go to libraries. And. I'd do all these. Anything I could. To get more information. And. Yeah. I just hit it full speed.
Huh. How long ago was this?
This was. Yeah. Sorry. My first trip to Yosemite. Was. Just over 10 years ago. Okay. That was my. I had no idea how to use a camera. So. I'd probably been in school. A year and a half. At this point. Taking. Film classes. And studio lighting classes. And. A couple different things. Had built a portfolio. And was getting. Decent at photography. Had. I think. Even won a couple awards. At that point. I was submitting contests. And. Different things. But. Yeah. So. There was a. He was the chief writer. And editor. For Surfer Magazine. Who was speaking to this. Journalism class. And. I wasn't taking. Any of those classes. But I figured. If there was. There was a way. For me to be able to. Learn and understand. From a journalism perspective. What they're looking for.
Because the writing. And photos. Go hand in hand. How I can. Utilize that. To take. Pictures. That would connect. The story. Better. Than that would. Kind of give me a one up. In the industry. And. Just figure out. You know. How to. How to. Produce the right type of content. For them to hopefully land a job. Yeah. So he. He was telling people. How he had. Been a professional surfer. And traveled the world. To all these. Beautiful islands. And crazy destinations. That I had never even heard of. Then he was the. As a writer for Surfer Magazine. He'd get to go on all these trips. And. Document everything. And tell those stories. And. I was just. Sitting there. Thinking like. Wow. This is literally. The dream job. Like I can't believe.
How incredible his life is. I had. Never really even left. California. I was just so focused on. Surfing and skateboarding. And we didn't do any. Really big trips. Growing up. We drove to Texas. A couple times. Which. Is pretty much. Just flat the whole way. But. Hadn't seen much of the US. Let alone. The world. And just hearing these stories. Was just. Mind blowing. And. I remember specifically. He was like. If there is one trip. That meant more to me. Than. Any other trip. I've ever. Been on in my life. And I just. Felt like he was talking. Directly to me. I was kind of. At this point. Where. I was sick of my. Jobs. I. I wanted something different. More fulfilling. More. In line. With what I was passionate about.
And I didn't really know. What that was. And so he's sitting here. Saying like. This is what. Meant more to me. Than anything. I've ever done. And. I was like. Whatever he's about to say. Like this is my calling. This is what I have to do. And. So I was just waiting for it. And. It's like. Out of everything. I did a solo road trip. Across the entire. United States. And I was like. Whoa. I wasn't expecting that. Like. Yeah. All these crazy places. Every place in the world. And just a road trip. Across the U.S. And he talked about just. How much of a personal experience. That was. Just the different cultures. And landscapes. And. I was like. Okay. That's it. Like. I got to do this road trip. You know. And. So that really stuck with me. And he talked for quite a bit longer. And I ended up getting to chat with him.
Afterwards. After. You know. All the other students. Had kind of. Tried to. Connect with him. And I was kind of. The last one there. I had my laptop. With my images. I started chatting with him. Showing him my work. I did a lot of like. They're called diptychs. Where it's a portrait. Next to like. An action shot. Of a surfer. I think I even had some paragliders. In there from Torrey Pines. And. Different things. And I was. Trying to relate to him. And show him that I was telling a story. With my images. By the portrait. And then. Kind of what that person did. And. After a while. He's skimming through. And. I was like. Wait a minute. Are these. Your images? And I was like. Yeah. That's what I do. I'm a photographer. And he was like. I got to get you into my office. And I was like. Whoa. Like. I really didn't expect it. To go anywhere.
So sure enough. A week or two later. I'm in his office. And. He ended up presenting. He's like. I've been in this industry. A long time. And this was Grind TV. Grind Media. Which at the time was. I think right now. It's called the Enthusiast Network. But it's kind of. The umbrella company. For. Surfer Magazine. Skateboarder. Canoe and Kayak. All these. Outdoor. Sports. That I was. Kind of obsessed with. Growing up. And I'm. I was just nervous. Being in the office. I'm like shaking. I'm like. I can't believe I'm in here. This is crazy. And. He was. He kind of sat me down. And was like. I had a chance to look through your work. And I've. I've. Have this position. That I never thought would. Ever exist. Because I've never seen. Somebody that really. Can.
Produce. The type of work. That you're producing. In such a broad spectrum. But. I want to. Give you the opportunity. To basically. Be the first ever. Staff photographer. For the entire. Network. Wow. And document everything. And I was just taken back. I had no idea. That was like. The biggest compliment. I could ever get. Sure. Coming from somebody like that. And. I was like. Wow. That's. That's amazing. And. I took a second. And I was like. You remember that story. You told. About. Your favorite trip. You've ever done. Was that road trip. Across the country. That really stuck with me. Is that something. You would recommend. Somebody like. Myself doing. And. He kind of sat there. And was like. If you have the chance. To do that. There's always.
An excuse. There's always a reason. Whether it's a mortgage. Or. Your dog. Or a wife and kids. Or something. There's always a reason. Not to do. Something like that. He said. If you have that opportunity. You have to go for it. And kind of just do it. So I sat there. And I was like. Okay. Well. I have. A huge respect. Thank you so much. For. This opportunity. I'd like to maybe. Put that on hold. And. Do this road trip. And take off. And if the. Opportunity is still there. Yeah. I didn't even really know. What I was doing at the time. Just kind of going. Going with it. But it felt like. The right thing to do. And. I was like. Before I settle into this. Position. And job. I feel like this might be. My only time.
And. I think he was taken back too. He was like. Whoa. Like. How's he. Turning this down. I think I was. Thinking the same thing. After I said it. Like. I can't believe. I just said that. But. He sat there. And. He thought about it. For a minute. And he didn't even. Consult anybody else. He just. Was like. Okay. He's like. How about this. Take your road trip. Go wherever you want to go. Do whatever you were going to do. He's like. I know you're going to be. Taking pictures. And documenting. The whole thing. He's like. I'll cover the cost. Of your entire road trip. And pay you. X amount of dollars. On top of that. If you just send us. The images. That you're shooting. Slam dunk. What? Oh my god. It just. Blew me away. I was like. Oh. Let me think about that.
No. I was like. I was just like. Mind blown. Yeah. So. That's really what started. That was my first. Actual. Job. That was in the. Career. That I was passionate about. I was even doing. Real estate photography. On the side. And. Had assisted wedding photographers. And. All the product. Product photography. And studios. And all these different things. But. That was like. Wow. This is. Kind of the opportunity. Of a lifetime. So. Packed up my truck. I had all my gear. Climbing. You know. Mountain biking. Snowboard. Surfboard. Skateboard. Everything. And. Kind of just hit the road. And. Was just. Traveling around. Doing landscape photography. Night photography. I'd go into these small towns. And just see. What type of sports. Or activities. People are doing. Connect with the locals. Sometimes I'd link up with.
With professionals. Sometimes it was just. You know. Weekend warriors. And documenting. Their adventures. And the landscape. And. Yeah. That kind of. Kind of. Set me off. In the path. That really got me out here. And
was that. You know. So Instagram. That stuff's around then. That's 2009. 2010. I guess.
Yeah. Somewhere. I think. I'm bad with years. But. Kind of. In the beginning. Stages of Instagram. I think I had. I had one at that point. I wasn't. I was. I held off. I wasn't really. Super into it. And just like. I don't want to. I'm not big on sharing. What I'm doing. Or. I don't know. So most
of this was going back. To this guy. At Grind. And. Okay. And they
had like a blog. We had started a blog series. With my content. And. So I was. That was really. What kind of. Kicked off my social media. I started posting. Now that I was out and about. Doing cool stuff. All the time. And road tripping. It was just a way for me to. Update. Even friends and family. And just let them know. Where I was. What I was doing. And. Almost a portfolio. Just me. Showing my. My best clips. And photos. And. But yeah. Some of the. Imagery. And stories. Were actually. Grind had. Some awesome connections. Obviously. In the industry. So. I remember there was. Multiple. Kind of. Blogs. And stories. That I did. That got the front page. Of Yahoo News. Which at the time. Was like. The biggest search engine.
And. So that was. Huge exposure. For me. They. Actually. Also connected me. With GoPro. At the time. Like hey. He's about to. Set off on this road trip. You know. Can you hook him up. With some cameras. And got me that. Initial connection. Which was. Ended up being a huge. Catalyst to. The social media world. And building a following. Because. Once. I had gotten some content. Sent them some photos. I think we talked about this. Earlier. But. The very first image. That. GoPro. Actually shared. On their. Instagram page. Still at that time. They had. You know. Million plus followers. I had maybe like. A thousand or something. And. It was a strong image.
And it engaged. Really well. It was their. Actually highest. Engaged image. They had ever posted. And. That sent. In. 24 hours. I had gained. I think. 25,000. Followers. Unbelievable. Man. And so that was.
Struck gold.
Yeah. That really was like. Whoa. Kind of a reality. Check of. This. Is a great way. To. Just get more exposure. It was my. Target audience. You know. Everybody that was. In the outdoor. Industry. That wanted to. You know. See beautiful landscapes. Or kind of outdoor adventures. And so that was. Between grind. Getting stuff featured. On their website. And. A couple magazine features. Getting stuff on. On Yahoo news. And a couple other. Big outside sources. Like that. And. Starting to work with. Different brands. They connected me. With Cliff Bar. And. I got connected. With goal zero. Ended up building. Long term. Relationships. With all those companies. And. Yeah. Them. Featuring my work. Was a great way. To. Just build that audience.
And that exposure. And kind of. Allowed me. To. Continue. On. On the road trips. I. I built those relationships. To where I could get. Kind of an annual. Contract with them. And. Shoot photos for them. That they could use. For marketing. And PR. And. Social media. And so. It was a great way. That was kind of. At the beginning stages. Of. I guess. What you would now consider. Like an influencer. But I was able to. Utilize my. Social media page. Which was. Continuing to slowly. Grow. And. Create content for them. That they could use on. Their social media channels. As well.
So. In the. In the age of digital. Because. You know. Back in the day. It was all slide. And film. And you know. It was an investment. And you really. Had to. I'm not a photographer. So. I'm saying all this. From. You know. Just. My own life. And learning from Jody. And my partner. For a long time. Who's. Who's. Photographer. And. But there's. You know. You really had to learn. The craft. How do you. How do you. And obviously. It's what. What you have done. But. You know. These days. You know. The iPhone X. Is unbelievable. Like. You're competing. With the world. Yeah. That has. Smartphones. And they can do some pretty fun stuff. People can. Capture it. Because they're lucky. Or whatever. But. You know. How do you. How have you constantly. Had to kind of reinvent.
Yourself. Or. How do you stay ahead of that. Kind of wave. Because it. It was a huge. Not everybody survived. That transition. You know. There's always going to be. The Ansel Adams out there. That's just amazing. But. You know. How do you. Do you. I'm leading us to paragliding. In a. In a very roundabout way. But. You know. There. There's talent. And there's hard. Work. And there's both. You know. Do you. When you look back. Did you just have a natural eye. Or was it just a ton of hard work. Both.
Yeah. Those are all great. Great questions. And I think. To summarize. I don't think I was technically. Like. Naturally gifted. With photography. I. I went through. A lot of classes. And we got critiqued. And. My work. At the beginning. Was. Definitely didn't. Stand out. Necessarily. Next to anybody else's. I think it was. And. What a lot of the other sports. Had taught me. I was huge into skateboarding. That was my thing. Growing up. And. Got to the point. Where I was doing. 20 stair handrails. And. Skating vert ramps. And doing. Pretty big stuff. And. I think that taught me. That didn't come naturally. Necessarily. To me. Either. But. What I learned. From skateboarding. It kind of taught me. A bunch of life lessons. That I've. Used.
Throughout my career. Now. To approach different things. And just life in general. But. My whole. Concept. Is. With. Passion. Dedication. And the belief. That it's possible. You can really do. Anything that you want. So. And skateboarding taught me that. Just through hard work. And. Doing things that my friends. Kind of laughed. And. I. I was. 12 years old. And I showed him this. Magazine cover. Of this guy. Doing a 20 stair handrail. And. I. I went out to my friends. And I. I wasn't very good at skateboarding. I was like. I think I could do this. And it was like. The biggest thing. That I had. Ever been done. And they're like. You're crazy. You're an idiot. You know. Like whatever. And. I was like. No. It. It seems. Logical. If you can do. A 5 stair handrail.
You can do a 20 stair. You just have to. Balance longer. And. They're like. No way. Like you're crazy. But. That same mentality. I ended up going. I think it was like. 8 years later. And doing the same trick. On the same handrail. Has this cool back story. But. Yeah. Only a few people in the world. Had ever. Ended up. It. Was this handrail. That is called El Toro. It's a. Famous 20 stair handrail. And did the same trick. On the same rail. That I'd seen on the cover. All those years ago. And. Yeah. So I think. With just hard work. And dedication. And just really pushing. I think it's a lot of. Leaps of faith. And. Whether it was me. Setting out in my van. With. $81.10. To my name. Or. Pursuing all these. Different sports. I do a lot of.
Slacklining. Or highlining now. Where you're. Walking a slackline. Across these. Crazy huge canyons. And. It's just pushing past. Those perceived boundaries. I think. And. I guess. Yeah. To circle back. To your. To your question. I think it's just a lot of hard work. For me. To. There is a lot of competition. Out there now. In the photographer. You know. Realm. And social media. Every kid. With an iPhone. Or a GoPro. Or a. You know. Mirrorless camera. Are using the exact same tools. That I'm using. And so. It is a. It is a. Almost a. It could be seen. As a scary. Position. For me to be in. Like wow. I really have to. Continue. I can't feel. Safe.
I don't think. I have to continue. To constantly. Evolve. And push myself. And that's part of what paragliding was. To me. I think. Too. I had seen it years ago. I grew up in San Diego. Around Torrey Pines. And it always intrigued me. But. Just. A. It was something that. Always did intrigue me. And I was really excited to do it. But. Just finding new ways. To approach landscapes. And to. Get out there. And push myself. And. Meet up with other people. And see. Landscapes. In a way. That not many people in the world. Get to see them. And. Being able to hopefully bring. My unique perspective. Into that. And capture that. Share it with a large audience. I'm all about like. A human element. In the landscape. And. For me. Whether that's night photography.
Or just. National parks. But. To have. A human element. In the landscape. Where you're both flying. Through the landscape. I mean. That's like. The ultimate dream. For me.
Don't you think. Like. With your. You know. With your background. The first big.
Paragliding film. I did. You know. We'd done. Quite a few smaller ones. But the first. Bigger budget film. And more serious. And red cameras. And all that. Was 500 miles to nowhere. With a very good friend of mine. Michael Paul Jones. Who was. You know. A huge Hollywood. Shooter. And he was just. Fascinated by it. And he wanted to come out. And shoot it. You know. So. But. We had. We had Jody on that trip. And because she was a pilot. You know. Mike was. Super astute. In telling his. You know. His. Right hand man. This guy. Jeremy Cannon. Who's. Super talented as well. But. You know. He was constantly going. Jeremy. Just go where Jody's going. Yeah. Because she's going to shoot the stills. She's going to get. She knows all the angles. Yeah. Because she's a pilot. And. Do you think. That that's really been. A factor with you.
Like. You know. I think of somebody like Jimmy Chin. You know. The reason he knows how to shoot climbing. So well. Is he's a pretty good climber. You know. He's. He knows how to. He knows where to be in the mountains. And he can get there.
He must have
a huge. And he can get there. Yeah. Right. Most people
can't get there. Right. To get the shot. So. Yeah. That's a great point. And. Somebody like Jimmy Chin is. Someone who I've always looked up to. Because of that. They're not just sitting on the sidelines. Trying to capture. Something with a long lens. Of someone up on a wall. Or on these huge. You know. Mountain routes. Or mountaineering in general. He's out there with them. And he's. Almost at the same level. As some of these top athletes. In the world. And. I think that does give him. That unique perspective. And get the angles. That nobody else can get. And. Really just understand the sport. And how gnarly it is. And. Be able to translate that. Through the imagery. To tell the best story. If you don't know. What it's like to be out there. How can you. You know. Tell that story.
I think it's a lot harder. And there's more of a disconnect. So. With everything that I shoot. I try to be. Competent in. That sport. Or that activity. To. Really. Understand it. To document it the right way. It builds a better connection. And relationship. Between you. And the other person. And. For me. It's just really fun. I don't want to just be sitting around. On the sidelines. I want to be out there. Whether I have a camera or not. So. Yeah. It all has tied together. And Jimmy's a. Person that I've. Looked up to. For. For that. And that respect. A lot. But. Yeah. It'd be. If I was just sitting. On the ground. Shooting paragliding. All day. There's not. Too many angles. I could necessarily get. But if I can. You know. Be up high. Thermaling. Looking down. Or just. vol biv. And get to these crazy places.
That. Not many people. Get to. Otherwise. There's no trails. There's no roads. There's no access. Even. Part of. One of my goals. Is. PPG. For that reason. As well. And just to. Be able to. Especially. Be able to. Sunrise. And sunset. Be able to. Get a motor. And get up in the sky. And approach these. Different landscapes. Just with a. Again. A unique perspective. And a unique eye. And even get out to. Some of those places. That you really can't get to. Any other way.
So we'll. We'll get more into the fly. But I. I want to spend a few minutes on. So I. Got to know you. Because of your van. You know. Hashtag van life. Yeah. I saw like the. The very original one. I think. And. And. This is. I think. More or less. When you started really blowing up. And. On social media. And stuff. But you. You had. Quite an adventure there. Right? It was like four years. Yeah. Living in a van.
Yeah. It was pretty cool. I had been working for. Grind TV. Grind Media. And had just been living out of my truck. This was really before. The whole van life movement. And there wasn't all the. Sprinter vans. And you know. Every. Every other car you see out. And Moab. Wasn't a. Adventure van. But. I. Was out there. I was on. And it. It ended up being. About a 100 day road trip. In my truck. All over the western US. And. It was incredible. But I found that. Living out of my truck. Was a little challenging. In some ways. I mean. Editing photos. I was like. Laying down. I had a kind of a platform thing. In the back of my truck. And. I was trying to edit photos. And I had all my gear. And. Was just laying on my back. With my. Computer on my stomach. I couldn't even sit up. Or trying to.
Change my pants. You know. Like. You're like. Laying. Laying down. Trying to put pants. It's just like. Not the best long term. Goal. At least for me. So. I. At one point. I had seen this adventure van. Drive by. I think it was probably a sports mobile. Like. One of the original sports mobiles. At the time. This lifted Ford. Fully decked out. With solar panels. And off road. 4x4. And ladders. And I just saw it go by. And I was like. Whoa. That's what I need. Like. If I'm going to do this full time. Like. It just has. A little kitchen. I could stand up. And. And I was like. That's the dream. Right there. And. So. I put it on. I had started creating. Like a vision board. And. Got really into that. And. I looked online. And.
I think I found sports mobiles. And they're like. You know. $150,000. For the low end one. And I was living paycheck to paycheck. And. Honestly. Wasn't. Getting paid. On time. And. Especially in the. You know. The surf. And skate industry. You don't necessarily. Get paid all the time. It's just a bunch of. Bros. And homies. And. Oh. Sorry dude. I forgot. To send the check out. And. Yeah. I was. There was times. Where I was struggling. And. Didn't have enough money. To. Buy groceries. Or pay for a shower. Do laundry. And. Even if I wanted to give up. And. Buy gas. And drive home. I didn't even have enough money. To. Pay for a full tank of gas. But. And so. $150,000 van. Which is totally. Out of the question. But.
For some reason. I still. Still stuck it on my vision board. And I was like. I don't know how. I'm going to get this. But I just know. That I'm going to make this happen. And. Months went by. I was looking on Craigslist. And. Oh you used for $95,000. And I just. There's just no way. And. Probably six months later. You know. I told my parents. And a couple friends. Like this is my dream. And. My grandma called me. Who lives in Texas. And she was like. You know. I have this. Camper van. Just sitting in my driveway. If you want it. You can just have it. And. I was like. What? Like. I totally didn't even remember. But I was like. Wait a minute. Send me a picture. And I was thinking in my head. Like. It's not going to be some. Adventure. Mobile. Like epic thing.
And. She sends me a couple pictures. And. It's a full on. Like 20 year old grandma. Camper van. With.
Like blue shag carpet. On the inside. And. Moon lighting. Yeah. Just like. You know. Definitely not. This. Lifted. Epic thing. But I thought about it. For a little bit. And. I was like. You know. I have a background. I'm pretty handy. I was like. There's not really. Any other way. I can make this happen. So. I was like. Alright. I'll fly over to Texas. And I want to. Pick this up. And hang out for a little bit. And drive it back. And I feel like. I could. Make it look a little more adventurous. Than it is. So I sold my Tacoma. Took the money from that. Which is about $8,000. I think. And put it all into the van. And tore it down to the metal. Pretty much on the inside. And. Built out cabinets. And flooring. And. Really kind of customized it. To what I thought. It needed to be. I lifted it.
Put off-road tires. And ladders. And solar panels. Tried to emulate that first one. That I had seen. And. But. I remember when I first. Drove it back to San Diego. It was that. Grandma. Camper van. And. My friends are just like. What are you doing? Like. You lost it. You know. Like. This is just ridiculous. Again. Because of van movement. It wasn't really a thing. Necessarily. And it was just this like. Beat up. You know. Weird looking van. And they're like. Oh. It looks like a. Creeper mobile. You know. Like. And. Nobody really saw the vision. But I was like. Just wait. Like. I'm going to fix it up. It's going to be awesome. And. Sure enough. Yeah. A couple months later. I set off the night before my birthday. With. Eighty one dollars.
And ten cents to my name. And again. It was one of those like. Leap of faith moments. Where. I knew if I stayed in San Diego. It just. I wouldn't be able. To. Produce content. And. Get the. Imagery that I needed. So I needed to be on the road. And. I was still working with Grind. But they were. As I said. Not paying the best all the time. I was just barely getting by. But. I was like. I just need to fully commit to this. If I want to. Try to make something happen. And. Set off. And it. I was like. I might be gone three months. And. Be over it. Or I might be gone three years. I really had no idea. And it turned into a four year road trip. All around the United States. And Canada. So.
And. And do you attribute that to really. The kind of. The career you've built. I mean. That kind of. Stepping off. I'm. Saying it comes to mind. Is you know. Boats are safe in harbor. But that's not what boats are built for. Exactly. You know. You just have to. You know. When I first set off. At sail. I mean. If I had listened to the people in the marina. I'd still be sitting there. Yeah. You know. Oh no. You got to have that. You got to have that. You got to have wind vane. You got to have that. You know. Definitely. You never go anywhere.
Yeah. And yeah. You have that same. I think spirit. And kind of background. On the water. Obviously. And I know you. You have the van as well. And have done quite a few road trips. But. Yeah. I think it's just a combination of. The things I. I kind of learned was. Like I said. With skateboarding. There were so many other. Even with photography. Like. You really. Have to take those leaps of faith. If you want to. Get anywhere. Push past. Those perceived boundaries. Like I said. If you. Stay in your comfort zone. Nothing. Nothing. Like they say. Nothing great. Comes from your comfort zones. You really have to. Push past that. And it is. You have to still be smart. And assess all of those risks. But. At the same time.
Yeah. Sometimes it's just going for it. And. Fully committing. And I think what I've learned over the years. Through everything that I've done. Is. It's those moments that. I was terrified. Of something. And I went for it anyways. And. And. Pushed past those fears. And just fully committed. That ended up turning into. The best experiences. Of my life. And that the van. And taking off was. Was one of those moments. For sure.
So. We have pretty similar backgrounds. When it comes to that kind of thing. Yeah. And also I think. Similar. Where we've gotten to. In a way. So you go through this time. And it's really. Footloose. And fancy free. Because you've got nothing to lose. I like being in a position. Where you've got. Nothing to lose. And nothing to lose. But then four years later. You're making money now. You've. You've. You've landed. Cliff Bar. And these other companies. And you know. You're making money. And you bring on an assistant. And another assistant now. Still feels the same way. More pressure.
Yeah. That's a great question. I think. The. Having a team. Is still. Pretty new to me. I've had my. Original assistant. Whitney. For. Two years now. And she's. Part time. And then. Brought on my. Close friend. David Hatfield. Full time. To be kind of my agent. And rep. And really help. In all aspects. And. It is a. Little bit more. It's. It's definitely. A little more scary. Knowing that I have that. Overhead. And even. I recently got rid of the van. I gave it away. In a contest. Wanted to pay it forward. Like my grandma had done with me. And. Decided I was. Kind of tired of. Living in something. The size of a walking. van. In closet. You know. For four years straight. I couldn't even fully stand up.
And. Again. It was. You know. The experience of a lifetime. And I credit my grandma. With giving me. Kind of getting me. Where I'm at. If. If I wouldn't have had that van. It would have been a totally different story. But. Yeah. I was ready for something new. So I settled. Back down in San Diego. I'm renting a place. Got a normal. Vehicle again. And have hired a team. And yeah. It's. It is a little more intimidating. Just knowing. That. I have to consistently. Have money coming in. And it's not this free spirit. Kind of go with the wind. Like. I'll just take a job. When it comes. And. A lot of the stuff. In my industry. Is last minute. But yeah. That's a lot more intimidating. And does add. Some stress. With knowing. That there's other people's. Livelihood. Depending on. You. And your business.
And your. Creativity. And. Making it all come together. And just the business. In general. So. Yeah.
One more business question. And then. We've. Got to switch to flying here. But. I just. I think it's fascinating. I think the listeners. Will find it fascinating. The. Do your. Jobs. Clients. You know. Gigs. Whatever we call them. Do they always come from. The company. Or do they come from. Athletes too. Like. Do you. Do athletes reach out to you. And go. Hey. I need. X and X. Because. In my own. Personal contracts. There's never any budget. For that. I've got to supply. You know. I've got to supply. The imagery. And. Social. Media. Imagery. Is always kind of free. You know. It's just something. It's just in my contract. I got to do that. You know. There's. There's extra stuff. Sometimes. Where. It's in the contract. That if I need to hire. A photographer.
That's on them. If we're doing. A specific project. For X company. But. Just wondering. That. Because. That just seems. To have shifted. I don't know. If that's just me. Or. The industry.
Yeah. That's a great point. I would say. For me. It's a little bit. All over the place. I built relationships. With. With. Quite a few athletes. To where. If we're just. Brainstorming. Some. If. Or even. If just the athlete. Is like. Hey. I got this crazy. Idea. I want you to be a part of it. I've built those relationships. Where they. They know me. They trust me. We work really well together. They know that we produce. Really good content. And so. Hopefully. If they have something cool. Then I'll be stoked. To at least hear about it. And hopefully. Go on this crazy adventure. And produce content. And just have an overall. Really good experience.
And then. Are you figuring out. Sorry to butt in. Yeah. Are you then. Post selling that. Or you got it all pre-sold. Are you. Are you. Are you. Approaching that as. Hey. This is a great project. This is a cool person. I'm just going to shoot it. And see what we can do with it.
Again. It's a little bit of everything. Sometimes the person's like. Oh. I'm working with. Black Diamond. Or Patagonia. And we're putting. I'm presenting this project. And I want to add you to the team. And so. It'll all be included. In the proposal. And they do have. A budget. And. You know. There's. Deliverables. And it's all planned out. Ahead of time. And sometimes. And especially. In the beginning. It's a lot more like. Hey. Let's go do. Something rad. Produce really cool content. And hope that somebody's. Going to be. Stoked on it. And. The more. I guess you. The more you've produced. And the more you have. The name in the industry. And have built that. Kind of trust factor. To where they know. That you're going to go out. And get something. Then. They're able to back it.
Beforehand. And be like. Okay. These guys are going out. We know. They'll get something cool. We can help fund. The project. And. Can contribute to that. And. A lot of times. It's honestly. Trying to pull from a. Couple different sponsors. And be like. Hey. We have this idea. Let's get. This company. And this company. Like. You know. This clothing company. And this shoe brand. And this gear brand. And make it. This. Project. Where we can incorporate. All of them. Organically. And produce content. For them. And. Hopefully. Get some budget. Enough to. To make the project happen. So. And then sometimes. You have agencies. Reach out. I just did a project. With Toyota. We were able to actually. Integrate. Paragliding into that. I did some surfing. Paragliding. And highlining.
All in one day. But. Sometimes agencies. Approach. Me. Or other athletes. And we're like. Hey. We have this. Really cool. Company. That's looking for. Whether it's an athlete. Or a content creator. We think you're great. For. This. And. And you kind of go from there. What's the project about. What's the deliverables. Budget. And you kind of. Break it down. See if it's a good fit. I honestly. Turn down. I would say. Over the years. It's been probably. 90%. Of. Jobs. Or proposals. That come to me. Because I've been so. Passionate about. Staying true. To myself. And my brand. And. That organicness. We kind of talked. About this earlier. But. Just companies. That are really. A good fit.
For me. And my lifestyle. And I think that my audience. Would. Want to see. I don't want to. Kind of overwhelm people. With these spammy. Cheesy. Commercials. I want it to be. Something that I'm stoked on. Something that I. Already use. And integrate. In my life. And. Try and connect. With those companies. I think. Overall. That would be. Kind of a tip. That I would give anyone. Is try to. If you're already using. A product. And a brand. Like. Try and work with those. Companies. Because. Those are the ones. That will organically. Already be in all of your content. And it's not going to be. Some weird thing. To have to integrate. You know. Something cheesy. An underwear line. Or just something cheesy. Whatever it might be. That you're not going to see. Or use. Or whatever it is.
And just. Yeah. Just a natural fit. But yeah. I don't know. If that fully answered it. But it's. It's a whole spectrum. Of different things. Sometimes. We reach out. To the. To the brands. Sometimes. They reach out. To us. So it's a little bit. A little bit of everything. And that's. Part of why. It has been intimidating. Like I said. With that overhead. Because it's not. It's not always consistent. And now I need. A little bit more. Of that consistency. But. Yeah. So trying to find. Outside. Ways. To make sure. That I have that stable income. Has been important too. But yeah.
How. Okay. I want to. Not forget. My second question here. But the first one is. How much of your time. Is spent shooting. Versus all the other. BS. Yeah. Would you call it BS? I mean. It's the. It's the. It's the editing. It's part of the job. Yeah. It's the lifestyle. It's the computer time. You know.
And so nowadays. People see these. I think not only myself. But anyone on social media. Who they. Oh. This person's living the dream. Or traveling the world. And staying in. All the coolest places. Doing the coolest things. And the reality. Because I. Am friends with quite a few. Of those people. And. You know. Have somewhat. Of a little bit. Of that lifestyle. Myself. It's a lot of. The back end work. Especially if you don't have. A team. Helping you. You gotta be the one. Sending the emails. And. Editing the photos. And researching. The best time for sunrise. Or where. The Milky Way is gonna be. Or what the weather conditions. Are like. And. It's a ton of time. I would say.
Ah. 50 to. 75 plus percent. Of my time. Is actually. On a computer. Or. Indoors. Somewhere. Trying to get. Wi-Fi. And. Send. Emails. And. Upload photos. On a slow. Wi-Fi. Wherever I can find it. In some crazy country. Or just in a. Small cafe. Or. I use libraries a lot. When I was on the road. They always have decent Wi-Fi. And a nice mellow place. To sit. And relax. But. Yeah. It's a. It's a large part. Of what I do. It's not just this. Like. Oh. He's living the dream. And on vacation. 24-7. While you're there. And in these crazy places. You gotta produce content. No matter what the conditions are like. You have people. Paying you.
Good money. Like. This guy's going here. Like. And so. There's a lot of pressure. You can't just. Be lounging by the pool. Or by the beach. Like. You have to produce. No matter what it is. And. And I take pride. In my work. And my quality. I want to make sure. That the client. Is getting. You know. The highest quality. Possible. So. Yeah. For me. It's. It's go time. And it's no sleep. Because. I love shooting. The night sky. I want to be up for sunrise. And I want to shoot. Golden hour. And. And midday. Like. For different things. For flying. It's good. So it's. It's almost like. Just never ending. And then you got to go back. And edit the photos. And send them off. So. Yeah. It's pretty. It's a pretty crazy adventure. 24-7.
Okay. I'm going to. Ask you a little. Tongue cheat question here. How does a guy. Even given your reach. And your background. In photography. I don't mean to sound. This like a slam. But how do you get a Toyota commercial. When today. I believe. Was your first XC flight ever. There's a lot of. There's a lot of listeners out there. That are like. What the.
Definitely. And. That's a great question. And yeah. We haven't really talked about. My paragliding experience. I think in general. So. That
was. This is the. Sort of transition. Yeah.
So. I'm at. I think just about. A hundred hours. And. Done. Some mountain sites. Being in San Diego. I started. At Torrey Pines. Did quite a bit of. Kiting. Even before then. And tried to. You know. Listen to. You guys. And. Build those fundamentals. And everything. But. Yeah. Just started. Flying. You know. Doing the mountain sites. And. Today. Was my first. Kind of. Intro. Into XC. I think we got about. Ten miles or so. But. Yeah. It's been a little bit. Over a year. And. I thought I'd transition. Kind of straight to PPG. My goal. Was to be able to take. Some camera gear up with me. So it was really. It
was really. Photography. When. When you came back to it. After the tandem. The years later. It was. It was more. Mostly to get in a PPG. And take. And shoot. It
was. Yeah. It was always. I think everything for me. Is both. For the experience. And. The photography. But. Yeah. I was like. How cool. To be able to fly. And go anywhere you want. And. Take my camera. And. And capture that. And. Just having a motor on my back. I felt like I'd be able to reach. Reach. Places that I. Maybe couldn't. Reach without a motor. And. So that really intrigued me. But once I started. I. I thought I'd kind of do it. The. To me. What seemed like the. Smart and safe way. To learn how to control the wing. Before strapping a motor to my back. And add just another element. So. Learned how to. How to kite. And ground handling. And I wanted to get my. Launches. And landing. And everything dialed. Before. Again. Strapping a giant motor to my back.
And. Once. I. Started flying. I was like. This is actually. Really cool. And I could really get into this whole. Side of it. And. Yeah. I've kind of been. Been hooked on just that.
So. Today. Being your first. Mountain flight. What are the.
What are the things that are. First XC. Not necessarily. Sorry. Sorry. First XC flight. You know. I think it's fascinating. How people get into the sport. And. What they learn early on. And. You know. I always have this. 50 hour question. You know. What could. What would you do differently. If you went back to your 50 hour self. You're. You're there. Basically. You know. Because a lot of the hours. I know. Are Tori. Ridge soaring. And. Yeah. It's kind of different than. XC flying. But. What. How is your learning process. Gone. And what are. What are you. Enjoying about it. And what. Do you feel like. It may be missing.
Oh. That's a great question. I tried to. Even before. Going to Tori. Do. I had friends. In the sport. And they told me. You have to be able to. Control your wing. On the ground. Before you get in the air. And so. I went out with buddies. And just borrowed a wing. And started kiting. In the park. My buddy Dave. Just threw me in. Wild conditions. Like 15 plus. Mile an hour. Like I. Kited once or twice. Like all right. Have fun. Like. Just wanted me to learn. You know. And get. Kind of drug around. And. Learn how to control the wing. I grew up. Flying. Trainer kites. And even. Doing. A little bit of kite boarding. Or. Variations of that. So I knew. The wind window. And I knew. A little bit about. Controlling a wing. In the air. But obviously. With a paraglider. There's.
A lot of different elements. To that. And it's just a lot bigger. So. If you do something wrong. It's gonna. It's gonna let you know. And drag you around. So. That was a huge. Part of. My foundation. Was just. Kiting. And ground handling. I think I had. 40 plus hours. Before I even went. To Torrey Pines. To try and. Even talk to them. I just knew. It would hopefully. Speed up the rest. Of my. Process. If I just knew. How to control. The wing properly. And. And I think that's. Really helped. Even my first day there. That the instructors. Were. Just like. Yeah. We can tell. You know. What you're doing. I mean.
I could
forward launch. And reverse launch. And do. All kinds of. You know. Ground handling. That most people. When they first start out. Sure. Weren't able to do. But I think. I've become.
I've flown. Mostly at Torrey Pines. And. I feel. Relatively. Confident. And comfortable. In that situation. But I know. That that's not. The real world. And that's not. What any other. Site in the world. Basically. Is going to be like. And. But it was such a great. Training ground. To practice. Top landing. And different approach. Patterns. And. And. Just really. Getting comfortable. With how the. Wing will. React. In different situations. And doing. You know. Little spirals. And. Just different things. Like that. And really. Understanding. The fundamentals. Even. On the ground. And in the air. And then. Now I know. That. As I'm getting into. Mountain flying. It's just such a different world.
To go from ridge soaring. To thermal. Flying. And XC. And. I feel like. Even as. I think you saw today. When. I felt uncomfortable. Or I wasn't getting. Any thermals. My. Instinct was to go. Close to the ridge. Because I've been dependent on. And just comfortable. Yeah. When. Ridge soaring. And when. I think. The goal is. If I were to. Push out a little bit. I could. I could find those thermals. So. Kind of transitioning. And. Understanding. A little bit more. Of the. The thermals. And. What's. The. Different reaction points. And where those thermals. Are coming from. And. I think now. I really need to.
Continue to progress. And. Learn more about. The actual. Mountain. Flying. And real world. Situations. That. Are everything but. Torrey Pines.
How. How are you approaching. Learning. Now. Because you go through. I've often thought. It's kind of tricky. If you. You know. You go through. Your. Your instruction. Your instruction. Course. And you get your P2. And you get signed off. And then it's like. Fly bird. Fly. Yeah. But you're still really. Young. And really new. And you don't know that much. And. So how. How. You know. If you. If you don't. Hook into. Mentors. And good mentors. And you know. The community. It sounds like you've got a really good community. Down in San Diego. But. You know. With all this. You know. Your work going on. And all this other stuff going on. How are you. How are you approaching. Training. Improvement. And.
Yeah. That's a great question as well. And it is. Basically. What you're talking about. I think with anything. That I've done. It's surrounding myself. With people who are better than me. In every aspect. And. I never want to be. The best in the room. Or the best. In the area. Because. You won't. Learn anything necessarily. And I'm someone who always. Wants to learn. And grow. And there's always. Ways to progress. So. For me. And paragliding specifically. Yeah. Just getting myself. Into the community. Making sure I'm going. Out. With the right guys. Who. Know. The. The launch sites. The mountains. The weather. And asking questions. Constantly. When you get there. Making sure that you're going. On the right days. That are. You know. Moderate. Mellow days.
Hopefully. And not. You know. This is. Extreme. Or could kind of. Turn on. Or OD. At any point. And. I do have travels. That kind of interfere. With. I can't just be. Paragliding isn't. 100 % of my life. And I. I don't think it. Necessarily can be. At this point. Because I'm running. My own business. And traveling. And incorporating. Different things. So. It's. I think making sure. That I'm aware of that. As well. And if I come back. From a. A month. Of not flying. Not to just go. All right. Let's go charge. A big mountain site. And try XC. For the first time. Because it's a good day. For that. It's like. Okay. Let me go back to Torrey. Get comfortable. Ground handling. And launching. And landing. And landing patterns. And then. Go out. To a mountain site. And just sight fly.
On a mellow day. And. That slow progression. And transition. And making sure. That I'm staying safe. And in my. My relative comfort zone. Like pushing myself enough. To where I'm progressing. With the. The right mentors. And people around me. But. Not going too extreme. Too fast. And making sure that. Even when I land. I'm. Asking. You know. To be critiqued. And what could I do better. Both. Internally. Asking myself those questions. And. And hopefully. Asking the people around me. On. Yeah. Just. Just how to progress. And. San Diego is a. Great community. And. For paragliding. Right now. And. We. Started. To. There was a. Like a. Safety meeting.
About. Yeah. Just everybody. Learning. The basics. Of like. First response. Almost. It wasn't like. An actual. First response course. But it's like. Hey. Here's at least. A little bit more knowledge. And information. And we want. They want. Everybody to. Be able to help out. If there. If there is something. That happens. So. Bringing a little bit more. Of that awareness.
To the community. Making sure that. Everyone's. Active. And involved. And can hopefully. Help each other. If something does go wrong. And there's kind of. A protocol to that. And. Yeah. Because. It is. Inherently dangerous. And. The more. Everyone's. Heads up. And on the same page. And knows what to do. If. If somebody were to go down. Hopefully. There's somebody there. That can. That can help out. I know. If I went down. I'd want. Somebody that kind of knew. What to do. Rather than just being. By myself there. So. So
you've participated in. A lot of different sports. And. I forget the term already. For this 20 stair. Oh yeah. Just. That sounds like a. Gnarly move. Yeah. So. How does this. How does paragliding. Compare. On that. Kind of Richter scale. Of. Radness.
Yeah. Like I said. Everything from. Skateboarding. 20 stair handrails. To walking across. Slack lines. Thousands of feet. Above the. Yosemite Valley. And. Even. I took on. Free diving. A couple years ago. I was actually scared. Of the ocean. And. Pushed free diving. And diving. You know. 40. 50 feet. Down. And going through caves. On a single breath. And. Had to overcome that fear. But. I think it. It all has helped me. With paragliding. Understand myself. Mentally. And physically. And what I can handle. And. When I feel uncomfortable. Kind of staying. Calm. And relaxed. And assessing. Situations. Because I think if you. If you start freaking out. And your adrenaline's going. And you're scared.
You're not going to make. The best decisions. So. Being able to stay. Calm. And relaxed. And focused. And assess things. Has been. A huge part of. I think. Helping. And hopefully. Continuing to help. Me stay safe. In all of these different sports. But. Yeah. Paragliding. Especially. I mean. The mountain flying. Still so new to me. Torrey Pines. I think there's that. That comfort factor. Of oh. You can just go to the beach. You know. 300 feet down. And be fine. But there's so many more unknowns. Once you hit the mountains. That. I'm still. I'm still nervous. Like in a good way. And I know. That I have to. Respect. The. The. Environment. And the conditions. And.
And. Assess those properly. So. I think even today. I was. I was talking. After our flight. And was like. I didn't even. Take a single picture. I didn't pull out my phone. Because I knew. That I. Was uncomfortable. Or not. I wanted to stay safe. And be present. And. Just do. All. There's so many. Distract. If you pull out a GoPro. And you're taking selfies. And all these things. It's just going to distract. So. Um. I'm. Still at that point. Where I. I want to be. 100 % present. Um. And safe. And progress.
Hmm. Um. Does it. Scare you more. Or less. Than. Other stuff.
Yeah. I realize. I maybe didn't even. Answer that question. Um. Oh. It's a different feeling. Because it's just so. It's beautiful. And peaceful. And you're just. That's part of what I love. About paragliding. It's just. So incredible. And relaxing. But at the same time. If you're. Starting to sink out. Or you're. Scratching. And there's this. Um. I think that's when. It gets intimidating. And it should be intimidating. When you're low. Versus when you're high. Obviously. So. Yeah. It's. Um. It's pretty up there. Especially. Especially. I feel like I'm a lot more. Out of my element. Than in. Other situations. So. We have to revisit this. After.
In a year. Uh. If you start doing a ton. Of XC flying. I want to see. If you still say. It's relaxing. Oh yeah. I don't often find. I don't often find. Like the kind of flights. That I do. I don't find them relaxing. Yeah. Necessarily. Like the end of the day. When there's a glass off. Or. Yep. You know. Or having a nice sledder. In the evening. Of course. You know. But. I find. I find like. You know. Big XC days. Is like going to battle. Oh yeah. What you're doing. Is pretty on. Another
level. Well.
I mean. It's just. I like that. Because when I. You know. Most people. When they take a tandem. They say. Oh it's so quiet. It's so relaxing. And I'm like. Wow. That's. That's not the sport.
I participate in. Yep. Anymore. And that's what I'm finding with. I mean. If I. I've mostly just done. Sight flying. Even at mountains. So I can thermal up. And I'm not trying to go anywhere. Sure. So then I'm just cruising. And find the next thermal. I'm hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. And I've just gone on good days. And had good lift. And so. There has been that element. Of like. Oh this is pretty cool. But once I get low. Or yeah. Even today. As we. Started at XC. I'm like. Whoa. This is intense. Like. Where's the bailout. Or yeah. Just. There's a million different factors. So. Yeah. I know. That's. That's where I'm at. That transitional period. Again. Where it's like. Okay. It's back to everything being. Intense. And a million different factors. Everywhere. But that's what I love about it too.
So. I. Imagine. Because of your. You know. Huge following. And. We don't need to go back to that. But you know. You've got. A ton. That there will be. A lot of people. Listening to this. That are not pilots. You know. And most of the. The podcast is. Is. Most of our listeners. Are of course. Pilots at. Every level. You know. From. Your guys level. To all the way up. You know. And. What would you say. To the folks listening. That. That are maybe like. Wow. This paragliding sounds pretty. Interesting. What would you say. To the. You know. The. Folks who. Who don't know. What it's all about.
I would say. It's an incredible experience. And there's. Obviously. Nothing else. Like it. But if you. Do decide. To. Take it on. Make sure you. Do it. The right way. And don't just. Buy a wing. And. Watch a YouTube video. And. Huck yourself off a mountain. I think it's all about. Safety. And surround yourself with. The right mentors. And going through. The proper. Safety. But. Yeah. Because there is that risk. But. The reward is just incredible. And. The community is incredible. That's part of. What I love about this too. Is coming up. To Santa Barbara. And. Hanging out. And meeting new people. And seeing new landscapes. So. Yeah. It's. It's for sure. Something. I want to do. The rest of my life. And.
I'm just taking it slow. To make sure. That I do it the right way. So that I can. Do it. The rest of my life. But yeah. There's. There's really nothing else. Like it. So. I encourage. Yeah. Take a tandem. See if you like it. And. Definitely. Dive in. And do it the right way. But it's. It's incredible.
Travis. Thanks. It's a great place to end. And. It's awesome meeting you. Good luck with your progression. I'd love to check in with you again. In a year or so. And. But yeah. Have fun at cloud base. And. Keep chasing it.
Thank you so much. And yeah. Hopefully we can get up to more adventures soon. I really appreciate it. Cool.
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