Hi there everybody, welcome to episode 86 of the Cloudbase Mayhem. This continues to kind of blow me away. Before we get into the show, a few things of housekeeping. One, got quite a bit of feedback, all good, about the last show, my opener, about the accidents and what was going on in Valle and what I thought were some of the reasons. That's just my opinion of course, but one of the things I talked about I felt like maybe required a little bit more expansion because I've gotten some emails about people felt like I should dig into that more. Wing choice, I said that I saw a lot of people flying wings that I thought were well above their level. I think that contributed to the accident ratio and also contributed to quite a bit of sketchiness in the gaggles.
You know, we had 130 people on start every day, actually, I'm sorry, 150. And a lot of the people that were flying wings that I felt were a little bit above their level were spending a lot of time on the wings. Spent a lot of time looking up at the wings instead of looking around, which makes gaggle flying a little bit scary. But one of the things I didn't talk about too much was just your own mental bandwidth. You know, when you're flying a wing that's, you know, you maybe don't feel like you've got the hours, you haven't had the SIV. Anyway, a wing that's definitely above where you personally are, you don't have the bandwidth to, you know, A, relax, which is really important to fly well. But also just. To be, you know, observing everything around you, smoke and wind in the valley and thermals and birds and other pilots.
And, you know, the more relaxed you are and the more, you know, non-stressful the flying is or the wing that you're flying is, the more confidence you have in your gear, the more confidence you've got in yourself and you're just going to fly better. So I wanted to kind of add that. Just be thinking about that. I think the temptation is. You know, that you, when you go to these races and, and all the crew that's on the really hot wings, you know, they go on glide and it's just impossible to keep up. But there's a lot of satisfaction to be had in flying a lower level wing and flying it really well. You know, like I said, the last time, like, like kayaking, you know, you really shouldn't be kayaking class four until you're nailing every Eddie in class three. And that's how I kind of think about this.
So, I mean, I think back to my own progression and, you know, I was told. Over and over and over again, like, Hey man, you're flying, you know, you really got to back off. You're taking too much risk, but you know, the first time I went to an ENT, I'd been flying for many, many years at that point. This was 2011. I went from an Arctic to an ice peak six. That was definitely a big jump. I'd gotten into a world cup. I get invited to fly here in some Valley at the PWC in 2012. I'd only done one comp before that. So yes, that was a big jump, but I had, you know, several, at least two and a half thousand hours. At that point, I'd done a whole bunch of SIVs, five, six, seven with jockey and Santa and a bunch of people, a lot of training over the water, a lot of acro training.
Um, and I'd been flying a ton. I mean, I think that year I got almost 500 hours before I made that jump. So just in that year, um, so I'm not saying to follow what I've done by any means, but, um, I was surprised. I was surprised how many people were flying two liners. Uh, how many people had made really big jumps, um, how many people had not been flying that long and we're fine. What I see is pretty hot wings. Uh, you know, the Zeno for a two liner is certainly a very stable wing as, as is the peak four, uh, by Navy, but there's still two liners. So anyway, just another, uh, shout out there about, you know, respecting these wings and, and, uh, thinking about the choice you're making. Um, the other thing I'm seeing a lot of, and I appreciate Trevor mentioning this.
Uh, we had a nice email exchange. Um, a lot of people are switching to the lightweight gear, which is great. You know, the lightweight gear is fantastic. And I think the X ops has driven a lot of that, but typically when you switch to lightweight gear, you're also given up a seat board, which we've talked about quite a bit. Um, I think for sure, uh, handling your wing is better with a seat board. Um, and you're also giving up a lot of protection, uh, no matter what, when you go to this light stuff, you know, you're just not going to get the back protection. So, you know, for hiking out and for hiking flies, it is fantastic, but just, you know, remember what you're giving up. It's all, it's all, you know, there's a lot of give and take there. Um, it's all a compromise, uh, you know, even going to a pod harness. I know they're sexy and I know they look cool.
And, but if, you know, they're more demanding, you know, they're more, you're more likely to get twisted up in a pod harness, uh, you know, and for not a lot of benefit, you know, there is some for sure. Uh, if you're doing a lot of racing, then. Yeah, for sure. But, uh, be thinking about that as well. I think a lot of accidents, you know, they, they could be avoided at least a bit, or a lot of the damage could be avoided quite a bit by just flying safer gear. Uh, Greg Hamilton with fly bubble. Who's been on the show, put up a great, uh, uh, Facebook post that, uh, that's you'll find in cloud-based mayhem. If you just go to cloud-based mayhem on, on Facebook and do that search, he put up a great little, uh, write up about light gear that I highly recommend. Check it out.
Uh, one more bit of housekeeping. I am pretty seriously consider considering moving us from Patrion to our own, uh, subscription service on the website. Now we've put a lot of effort into Patrion. We've got a lot of patron supporters. This would be a kind of a big and somewhat risky move, uh, in terms of, you know, I, I would really want everybody to transfer over. Uh, a lot of you that listen to other podcasts probably heard about, there's been a bit of a debacle there with Patrion. With free speech, uh, they banned quite a few, uh, what are considered kind of alt-right or very conservative artists. Uh, I don't want to get into that debate whatsoever. I mean, I think that there's, uh, you know, free speech versus, you know, uh, hate stuff and alt-right.
I mean, yeah, anyway, I don't want to get into that. Uh, I think free speech is really important, but I also think that, you know, maybe there shouldn't be platforms for, for crazies, but I don't know any of these folks that were banned. I don't listen to any of their stuff. I don't have an opinion on that whatsoever. But, uh, I do read our exit surveys and the big one that, that tends to, you know, people sign up and they stay with us for a little while. And then especially the folks that aren't based in the US, they're paying quite a bit of tax and their, their, the fees through Patrion. So in other words, the money that gets to me, um, is quite a bit less through them than other routes like PayPal and stuff. So, and PayPal's still pretty big for fees. So I know all of you that are listening. You're listening to the podcast that want to support it. You know, you want the money to go to the creator.
You want it to go to us and not to these platforms. So, uh, we've looked into options. There's, there's some other platforms that they cost me money, but they would cost you very little. Um, and I think that's going to, you know, in the long run, that's going to be the better way to go because Patrion for us really, we keep growing our numbers, but the amount of support kind of stays the same because a lot of people will sign up at 10 or 20 or five. And then after a few months, they realize that, you know, they're looking at the receipts going, well, not a lot is, you know, some of this is too much of this is getting taken away again, especially if you're not in the States. And most of our listeners are not in the States. They're mostly in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, other parts of the world. So, uh, I think this is a good move. If you don't like this idea, uh, get ahold of me, come to the website, just send me an email and maybe, maybe, you know, something else that works better.
But, um, I'm going to be basically following what I've seen. A lot of other artists do like Sam Harris did recently. He, he chucked Patrion and, uh, you can just now subscribe through his site, which I've done. And a lot more of the money goes to him. And, uh, and I'm basically going to follow the same. They're basically just plugins for WordPress. We can do our own credit card processing. There are fees there, but there are a lot less, uh, and in some cases less than patron than PayPal as well. So I think this is a good solution. It will only work. Of course, if all of you that are on Patriot and switch over, but I'll update this more. On the next show, it's going to take quite a bit of work, it stuff in the background, but I think we can make it happen. And I think it's going to be a much better solution for, for everybody. We just want to make sure that that transition is smooth.
Let's get into the show. Uh, this was recorded again, live down in Columbia. I'm now back home now. That's why the sound here is better, but the, uh, sound for the show is going to be filled with birds and dogs and other stuff, other Columbian background noises. But as always, the miles has done his magic and, uh, it won't be too bothered. With that. But I sat down with Annalena, his Anastrosa, uh, Ernesto's wife. They just had a little baby. Uh, you all know their names, uh, Ernesto and Annalena have been crushing on the, uh, comp circuit for an awfully long time. Ernesto is one of the just, he's just fantastic. He's got so much personality. I loved flying with him the last couple of weeks down at the British open. Uh, Annalena had the, had the child duties for this one. They go back and forth on that. So we talk about, you know, how things have changed.
Once you have that. You have a baby. Uh, but we talk about her, uh, predilection for flying three liners instead of two liners and she crushes on those. So that's pretty fun. Um, and I also asked her a question that I've asked other, uh, other of our women guests on the show about, you know, what she thinks there, you know, why are there so few women in the sport? Um, and I threw one at her that I think kind of got her and she wasn't really able to answer here. So I wanted to answer live. And she thought about it after we started. We stopped recording and I, I'd like to just maybe fill in those blanks. I hope I do it justice. But, uh, basically I said, I compare, I said, well, you know, do you have to be a really strong, independent woman to be a paraglider? And I brought up some, some people like Isabella that, you know, that to me are who we've also had on the show who are, you know, really strong, uh, strong minded women.
And I thought, you know, is that one of the factors? Is that, you know, is that requisite for being a. Woman pilot. Um, and it kind of stumped her and she thought about it and, and I don't think she really, uh, liked her answer at this point. I don't remember what it was, but I remember we talked about it afterwards and she said, you know, I'm just a regular woman. So, no, I don't think so. Um, I think, you know, it's just, it's just the numbers and it's just the, the reality of it and the risk and, you know, maybe having kids certainly has a factor in that. Adele had some great thoughts on that. Um, that's also a great show. Go back and check that out. So, uh, anyway, I don't think we really came up with a very good answer. Um, I, I think it was, it was one that kind of stumped Annalena.
I don't have an answer either. Uh, one to explore with future shows, but I just wanted to, uh, let you know that we did talk about that afterwards and didn't really come up with a, with an answer, but, uh, great gal and, uh, awesome pilot and super inspiring. And it's really fun to meet their little kid who they're taking all over the world. These guys travel a ton to fly. And, uh, I was really inspired by this. So I think you're going to enjoy this talk. So without further delay, please enjoy Annalena Henestrosa.
Annalena, thanks so much for coming on the Mayhem. We're going to be, uh, bombarded here with construction and trucks and chickens and roosters and very Colombian noises. But I think this will be fun, but I appreciate the time.
Thank you for the invitation. It's like typical Colombian morning. The mornings are great here.
Yeah, they are great. Yeah. Well, we've had our coffee and our orange juice. We're all ramped up and ready to go. Uh, where I thought we'd start, I just kind of throwing this out. You, you're, you're unprepared, but, um, tell me your, your most favorite flying story. What comes to mind when you think about flying? It doesn't need to necessarily be yours. It could be Ernesto's, your husband's or something else. But, you know, I know you, you learned in Venezuela. Uh, but what's it, what's it, what's something that comes to mind when you think about flying? That you want to share?
You know, I had one perfect flying day. I remember out here in Colombia in 2015, I remember. And it was just such a typical, beautiful, emotional day. Um, at first we went up to Los Tanques in this bus. How is it called? Chiba. This open, colorful bus. And already the ride up to take off was an adventure. And on the ride up. I saw in the forest, a toucan. A really beautiful bird. I really like. And just seeing this toucan was such a good experience. I don't know. And then I had a really beautiful flight, obviously, obviously.
And yeah, with the flats, turmoiling with the birds, everything perfect. It was just such a nice flight. And in the end I landed close to a papaya field. Here close to Roldanillo. And I don't know. Just landing there, I saw a huge blue butterfly. I love also. I know this from Venezuela already. It's just such a beautiful butterfly. Brilliant. Blue. And you really barely see it. And yeah, that was such a perfect, you know, experience as well. It's just everything was in the flow. And after I had packed my paraglider. A lady came from the farm to help me to get out.
To get the right way. And she gave me a papaya. She just handed it over to me. And at home having this papaya, it was the best papaya I ever had. It was so perfectly. Yeah. This fruit. And this was like a perfect flying day for me. You know, not just in the air, but also on the ground. And you know, when you feel the connection with nature. And yeah, all the beauties. That are out there. I really remember. The
cloud flying here is extraordinary, isn't it? Yeah. It's just unbelievable. I had some moments yesterday just surfing up the sides of these clouds. And just kind of in and out of the mist. Yeah. It was just.
You're right. Especially also in competition flying out here in Colombia. When you are waiting for the start one hour. Cloud surfing. Yeah. Soaring the clouds. Getting. Yeah. Close. Feeling it. This. Yeah. You really can see them out here. You can see the clouds forming. It's special.
Yeah. It is special, isn't it? Yeah. It's really nice. We talked a little bit before we were hitting the record button on how you got into flying. Can you share that story again in Venezuela and meeting Ernesto and all that?
Of course. Sure. It's been. For me, it's been quite a long way to become a pilot. I met my husband in 2017. Yeah. In Venezuela. He used to be a tandem pilot. And yeah, we flew a lot tandem by that time. I used to live there for university exchange. And yeah, he took me. He took me a lot to fly around all Venezuela. I loved it. I wanted to become a paraglider. But actually, he did tell me that he won't learn me how to fly before I stop or before I finish university. Because he said, you will be too addicted to go on with your career. So from then on, yeah, we've been tandem flying and we started ground handling a lot.
Also because of, yeah, money wise, it was difficult to become a, to get the equipment. So for the next year and a half, two years, we've been practicing a lot on the ground together. He showed me a lot. But in the end. Yeah. We took every. Every possibility in Germany, every little field that was. Yeah. It was good to do some practice. And in the end, after finishing my career, we went back to Venezuela in 2009. And there I became a pilot doing my first flights from altitude.
And was that in Caracas?
Close to. You know, there's. Yeah. There's a German village called Colonia Tovar. Okay. And in between there and Caracas, there's a famous flying spot called Placivel. There's, that's the space, the spot where my husband also started paragliding. And in the end, he didn't want to give me the final degree. And his instructor, Orlando Leighton, famous teacher from Venezuela. He, he finished my degree with the, with the altitude flight. I'm proud of him. I'm
proud. One of the coolest landings I ever saw was in. A bunch of us tried to cut the corner on the convergence. And I think this was in like 2013, it was a world cup somewhere. And and Carlos came in. He bombed out with us and. And he. He would like, you know, I've seen flapping in this was like flapping at a whole nother level. Like he would basically. Tail slide almost the glider and then let it go. And then tale slide, and then let it
go at a chance.
and just helicoptered like a helicopter just landed around the ground and i was like carlos man that was amazing what where did you learn how to do that he said ah flying in caracas because all the fields are surrounded by fences and barbed wire and all this stuff and man he had impressive landing skills this was this was before i got into the ex-alps and i was like i need to learn how to do that that is impressive that's
all reported it's a flying site directly in in the city of caracas i think they're not flying there anymore but they got a new one and actually the site where i learned to fly place well it's also it's a tiny valley and you you have a mountain rip in the middle where you take off and the landing is just a couple of hundred meters it's not much maybe 300 meters down and the landing is like a top landing spot and you also have fences and you get huge active terminals you get huge active terminals that place so you really get you you really learn to to top land in a termic area right
wow but it's the official landing
because further down with um where they used to land um before it got all constructed so there's barely no landing left so you need to make it back up actually to land in this place and i remember there we've been competing a lot in this space in this area many times you also make just like slope landings if you don't reach this top landing official landing anymore right
wow good good xops training i
had at the in the first years of my career i had really good good exercise and yeah for for takeoff and landing i remember now um yeah the last years much more in the alps it's been becoming much yeah not easier but yeah more official i would say like this perfect takeoff and landings we have over there so
were those first years what was most of the training like you when you learned how to fly and you're you're flying solo now and stuff was it mostly done in germany or was done in venezuela because i understand you were kind of splitting your time yeah
we've been actually we've been traveling a lot all these last 10 years so we used to spend summer in germany um first in fussen in the alpine side and then in garmisch so there i've been flying a lot also and training a lot but also it's been a time of much work and then we spent the winters in venezuela in venezuela where i really had much more time for flying and we've yeah we flew all the time just like flight addicts and also we spent and um one winter in nepal where we really got a lot of air time and
were you doing any bivvy in nepal or were you mostly just flying there and um actually
not at that time i was not interested in to this and i was just so into cross country flying i started doing my first contract cross country flights and my husband was working as a tandem pilot so we got yeah we stick to to pokara the time and yeah i i made my my rounds around the green wall having all this also special experiences with the you know i don't know if you've if you've flown the green wall but there you you think you see a terminal the the trees moving and then when you get there you just um recognize that there are monkeys you know on the trees and this is also such a special experience over there but it works very well the green wall it's such nice move um terminals and it's perfect for landing because nepal there's almost no wind for in the air but also for landing and takeoff it's perfect for for beginners cross country pilot yeah
yeah i mean i think that's why beer's gotten so popular you know it's amazing you fly you fly into these deep mountains and there's no wind yeah you know i'm just i'm not where we're where we're from we deal with a lot of wind in the rockies and it's it's just the first time i went there i was with uh eddie and john and and jim uh the the himalayan skies safaris guys from the uk and uh and following following john sylvester around was like we're gonna go in there what are we doing you know and then it would there wouldn't be any wind it was just amazing yeah nepal is similar in terms of the lack of wind yeah
it's just a bit more it's it's more easy because the mountains are not that that's big that big yeah you know yeah and it's more open i remember also for landing beer's great but i really felt like small going into this big deep mountains although it it's working yeah as you say there's no wind and the thermals are there so it's working but it's you feel like really small in this big mountain and
how did you get into how did you get into competing and if we're skipping some big aspect take me there but um when did you start competing and how did that all happen in
2012 in nepal actually our friends jessica isabella and so the american girls yeah jamie messenger they actually they took us to nepal to live there and we know them from germany because in germany we used to live at the same summer flying site they took us to nepal and then we already spent there a couple of months me learning my xc and then there was this russian open russian open and after the nipple open and they said yeah come in a little you can do that join us i had at that time yeah sea glider i just got you and that's how i started to compete you know they showed me everything and it was just a great experience all our friends were around and it was fun it was huge fun great fun
learning learning under the uh the guidance of jamie messenger that's that's that's pretty valuable yeah that guy's a jedi yeah yeah amazing great
pilot yeah incredible yeah great
pilot fantastic and so and you liked it yeah you enjoyed competing yeah okay it
was fun yeah and uh you know i could learn so much and enjoy so much and we were all together and having a good time and after we went all back together to germany and there were the weekend competitions league competitions and german german so all of a sudden we were into competition you're
you you said you were near garmisch um so is vonk your your main the main site
actually yes bank especially in spring and autumn and then osterfeld is called the other side so we are directly in garmisch living there you know from the examples yeah so we have quite a take-off surround that
line between aschau and and lermus is unbelievable it is so spectacular it's just amazing in there you just you're in like such a such a uh i mean you're in a part of the alps where there's lots of people you know in in garmisch and aschau and kim see in that whole area and then you get into those mountains and you feel like you're in the end of the world
yes there's
not much in there and
it's really difficult to fly there yeah it's true
it's tough it is really neat though it's beautiful you
know there's this huge area it's called carvenda it's really special it's um it's a protected area um yeah that's why also you know yeah it's it's a beautiful protected area in the middle of the the alps it's also great for mountain biking hiking everything i'm sure
ah it's a gorgeous area they i'd love to talk to you guys at some point about you know there there seem to be some pretty interesting convergence lines that set up through there too and with the bavarian winds coming in and then depending on the time of the day but i have often had a lot of trouble with that transition between the the there's a big mitter top mitter or something um so just east of garmisch there's a little town at the base of those big you know those big mountains and from there to the zugspitze i've often had a really hard time with that transition and Chrigel just nails it every time but
you know we've been watching Chrigel from ground and he's done some flights lines nobody else has done before there you know first of all because i remember at the last or the yeah i don't know which except if it's been four years ago or more it's been a lot of lots of west wind yeah that much west wind that we usually wouldn't take off and seeing Chrigel coming into garmisch jumping from back there there's no landings from the ranta and then just being at the right spot at the right time where at the end of the day there's still a little bit of sun um hitting the the rocks and then managing to just fly around this massive so it's been crazy and it's really yeah it's really not easy um this part
because you can take the south um rocks um just to the south of garmisch the vetterstein but then there was the rule you have to um to fly around the or go around the zugspitze on the northern side
yeah and
then in between this carwendel i told and the garmisch um and rocks and mountains there's like a a part a valley that is not easy to connect because it's really wide you've seen at the vetterstein so it's not easy to take the right route and most pilots have been walking yeah
i've done plenty of walking in there yeah
and and the weather is also tricky you know tricky to get a good day yeah
it can be really tricky area but man it's beautiful that's a nice part of the world to train i'm sure to fly and to also to also live um cool so you start competing uh you would you're enjoying that you're doing league back in in uh in germany let's wait for this truck to go by when does up come into the equation and and uh is that years down the road here or you know when actually i guess take me through some more of your progression
actually coming back from nepal in 2012 um we went back to our summer place in in fission at that time and i've been doing many different works for a couple of years after university i've been working with tour operators in south america helping yeah with with translations organization i've been working in a climbing area like a climbing park i've been working in the flying school my husband was working as talent and pilot i've been working as a waitress i've been many different things just to to get money and to keep on traveling but coming back from nepal and studying opinion of course IF YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BE AN ACER because this little village yeah there was not so much work offer for me as professional so I thought going into hotels or whatever or keep on with the flying school etc and then by chance coming back from Nepal I wanted to change my glider and I got a Trango UP Trango and I really fell in love with this glider and to afford it I asked the company how we can do if I can pay in parts or whatever I really like doing I wanted but then I just quit my job and by chance they told me UP is searching for professional and I thought oh that sounds nice maybe you want to have my documents and I sent my documents to UP and a couple of days later I was starting working there Wow so and then we moved to Garmisch is
UP in Garmisch yeah
UP is the headquarters in Garmisch so in 2012 I started working with them since now Wow
cool and then are you involved in the development side at all or what what what do you do for them
I I I'm doing now marketing and international sales okay so right now I'm I'm working less I'm working part-time after I had the baby I quit for a while and came and just came back in September this last year 2018 and yeah I've been doing a bit of everything but mostly office work of course I met managing the team pilots the German speaking team pilots doing the marketing thing I'm working part-time and part-time I'm managing the team pilots the German-speaking team pilots doing the marketing thing I'm the contact person for the magazines I'm yeah with the web page social media etc etc and in contact with all the UP dealers and importers worldwide sounds
sounds fun but it's interesting to see it from that side of the fence you
know it's been like my dream work and yeah paragliding since I started paragliding life was just moving it's been in a good flow for sure there has been difficult times as well as always but it's been in total paragliding direction I would say and I love my work yeah was
your as your travel all these years with Ernesto and now your baby is it all been is it all pretty much oriented around flying is it always flying trips you guys are going to do or it sounds like more it's not really so much trips it's more living you go to a place you live for a while yeah it's
been always around paragliding you know we first we we went for a long time to Nepal to Venezuela for the whole winter then as I started to work with UP it became a bit less or shorter times but still always with paragliding and we start to fly World Cups so we went to India Brazil Mexico for World Cup so it's been competition competition competition competition Combined with flying, but for a couple of years in between, I would say 2013 to 2017, it's been World Cups mostly. And now we are coming back for longer times to pass winters in Colombia mostly.
And has there ever been, you know, like maybe a difference in the passion between you and Ernesto? And have there been times where maybe he's not as excited about it or you're not as excited about it? Or how does it work quite well with you guys all the time? Or is it, are there times where it's like, I don't know?
No, it's been working well all the time. It's just now I stopped competition flying two years ago. I did my last competition here in Colombia in 2017. And then with our baby, actually, we kept on traveling a lot in Europe. Yes. Well, that's in the winters. And now I'm joining him to the competition.
And you stopped competing because you got pregnant. Yeah. Okay. And then do you see yourself getting back into it?
Actually, I'm not sure. Yeah. You know, I'm not sure. I'm really enjoying flying. I've been flying all this time. After my baby was born, I started to fly again six weeks after. But I then flew a low-beak glider for a while because, yeah, it's just been more easy, lightweight. Equipment, eight kilos. It's been perfect. Yeah. So I wasn't thinking about competition flying. And I just got back on my trango here in Colombia now, two weeks ago. And I fell in love by the first flight. I was a bit scared. Oh, yeah. I was curious how it would be to get back. And I was just happy. But I feel this life is now so busy with all this family thing and the baby.
And I'm not really thinking about competition, to be honest. I'm not missing it, you know. For sure, I can imagine coming back, but I don't know when. I see in World Cups, I've seen many women that have already grown up, kids or women, men that are, yeah, much older than me or that are already in their 50s, 60s. So I think there's no hurry to come back. If I would enjoy, I can come back after now
or whatever. That's the
nice thing about this sport,
isn't it?
Yeah, this sport is great. You can enjoy it all your life, you know. But you need to be calm and be honest to yourself and keep it safe.
So you have a little boy, 16 months old. Do you see, what's his name? Lucas. Lucas. Do you see him becoming a pilot?
Might be, you know. He's already. He's already climbing a lot and interested into the sky. But, yeah, I'm not sure. It's difficult to see. But two days ago, we went out to the balcony of our apartment here in Roldanillo. And he, before I could see, he already saw a glider landing in the stadium. And he said, Papa, Papa. So he's really recognizing it already. And he's been at the landings the whole summer we spent with the bicycle. Going to the landing, home. And he's been seeing and watching riders all the time.
So as a mom, the risk side of it, you feel like that could be managed. And this is really on my mind right now because there's been so many accidents this year. And it just seems like, I don't know, it seems like that's every year. But the reason I asked you is I have an 18-month-old little girl. Oh, nice. So very similar. She was with us in Valle the last couple weeks. I was up there for a couple of comps. And same thing. She spots paragliders like birds. She's just like, ah, paraglider. She doesn't say paraglider. But she's definitely kind of figured it out and is enthralled by the whole thing. But I wonder. I think it's the kind of thing if she shows interest in it, of course, I will support it. But I wouldn't be too – like mom's not interested in it at all.
I've taken her on a couple of tandems and she's just like, yeah, whatever. And it was always for me. Like, great, perfect.
The risk thing, okay, I think before he would start paragliding, that would pass many years. Yeah. But the risk thing for me flying, for sure, it is there in my mind all the time. And I'm really thinking about.
To be honest, I've been enjoying every single flight I've been doing since he was born.
And it was good for me also. Mentally, yeah, I don't know. I feel happy after flying. But I really feel that I need to be super careful and super careful also with my emotions. And with all the surroundings.
Yeah, and to get sure about, first of all, conditions. Because, okay, the equipment is checked. The equipment is good. That's not the problem, I think. But the conditions are. The thing, the conditions is what is, yeah, I need to be most careful about. Like, my last flight here, three days ago, it was really strong. Really strong. It was, yeah, and I've heard about a couple of, yeah, incidents. And for me, in this flight, in the mountains, I really could not enjoy that much. And I was thinking, yeah, what to do. And the people kept on going in the mountains. And I just left. To the valley alone.
Because I said, you know, I'm not needing to make XC points or compete. I need just to enjoy this flight. And that's what I'm up in the air for. And I left for the flats. And it was a beautiful flight in the flats. It was really tricky conditions.
Really short cycles.
Inversion. And I got a beautiful low safe in the middle of the valley. While I was there, I was thinking, okay, I'm crazy. But I thought. It's, yeah, no worries. There are huge landing spots everywhere. If I'm careful, I can land everywhere if I'm aware about that. The landing is getting the most important part for me now. To think about a good landing and where. But I thought, yeah, however, my baby is fine with his father and his grandmother back home. So if it would take me to walk out two hours, it's no
big Denali
can manage. And, yeah, I just can land wherever I want. I just need to be really sure about a good landing.
What do you mean by being careful with your emotions?
You know, after having a baby, you get, in my case, you get really emotional about everything. Yeah. More than before, I feel. Yeah, yeah. You know, and paragliding is a strong emotion in all directions. Yeah, sure. You know, negative as well as positive. And, yeah. Yeah, it's a strong emotion. And also, I need to, I think I need to be careful because you can get so easily so addicted to paragliding. So I try to calm myself down and to not go too far. So I decided for myself the first cross country flight I make here. I made here, I went to La Union and back. And then the next one, I made the bigger route to La Victoria, Sarcelles and back.
And I decided to keep it. I decided going slowly to become, to fly more slowly because friends were asking, yeah, why didn't you go on flying or kept on flying with us? And I said, yeah, it's no need. I need to get used again. I need to build up resistance for flying. I haven't been doing big cross country flights for years. And so I really want to get into it slowly and not because I'm so emotional or happy by turning this great term. I'm
going to keep doing that. So I just want to have some time to just
keep on going without taking care about my energy level, you know. That's what I mean about taking care about my emotions. To just realize that I should take it slowly.
You mentioned you spend a lot of time with Jessica Love and Isabella Messenger because you've spent all this time in Nepal. I love them so much. Me too. When I think of Isabella and Jessica, I think of big, strong personalities. Do you? think that that's uh the question i want to ask is why are there so few women in the sport and do you think that uh you know they it the people like you that are strong and and uh independent and
what kind of woman is attracted to paragliding
well that's a difficult question i
think i think many women could be attracted it's just so important that you have a good start into the into the sport that you can feel you can manage and um yeah it's important to have lots of practice at the beginning lots of practice and that you feel you can you can do it you know it's it's a lot about you talk and think about the sport and the risks you know many without trying it just think it's dangerous you know and that's why they won't try it but i think you know there's so many business women out there running businesses or whatever so there could be more women running not running but paragliding it's not that women could couldn't do that but maybe they don't know they can do it so it's a question for me really difficult to answer what kind of woman do
you think that you you and not by just you i mean you and isabella and jessica and other women that are that are good in the sport and have had long careers in it and really enjoy it do you think you have a different kind of risk um tolerance than than most women than other women or do you think it's more just that for whatever reason you guys got into it with great partners maybe and that helped uh for
sure uh the you know to have a partner that shows you that you can do it and that gives you the confidence is very important actually for me um yeah to know you can do it maybe maybe a problem also could be that still having so many men around in the sports um can be for for women intimidating yeah because we are taking another um yeah we are thinking maybe differently about flying risk we are not that competitive i think yeah they're women competing really well sure but yeah all this after a flight all this talking about flying it's also different for women the feelings you know we
we are very emotional and and it's not so much um talking about who's better or yeah battling each other but it's more about the experiences we have out there
that's interesting you say that i i follow isabella on instagram and it's uh it really is it seems to be more about the experience and the the i don't know it's more of a holistic view i think that women have of it rather than the competition and the distance and the x contest and the you know the the goals and the marks and the you know what i mean it's uh men are very competitive yeah
more i i guess yeah
um they are
competitive women and they're great women out there competing you know last year Superfinal here in colombia there's been two women in top ten yeah ah this was so awesome so happy that was awesome that was
awesome yeah so we can
compete and we can be great pilots and be there on top that maybe it's just a different way to get into or to yeah um
having having lucas uh has it changed your desire for the sport your passion for the sport is it uh what whether you you talk about it you talked about it making definitely you're assessing risk more conservatively but have there been other changes for
sure i'm not so crazy about flying anymore to be honest i feel like i need to get into the air every one in in a while because it makes me it yeah i relax i i can free my mind i i after landing i'm happy i'm full charged again but i'm not like i i'm not like i need to fly all the time I don't have this feeling. I have a feeling of when everything comes together and the situation is perfect. I've got a babysitter or Ernest is on the ground or yeah, the conditions are perfect. The day is good. And I have energy. I'm waking up or getting into the day with energy.
Then I feel like, okay, now I go flying. But I don't have this feeling anymore of I need to fly. I need to fly more. But I'm enjoying every single flight.
You said it's really important for women to get into it the right way. What does that mean? How do you get into the sport the right way?
Slowly and without incidents and with confidence. And I think the most important is to do, well, in my experience, I did lots of ground handling. For years, actually. And I think this is so important. Because watching the flying sites, I've been living in Germany, Garmisch and also Füssen, it's just so tricky takeoffs. And I think if I would have done a classical career in a school, flying school, it might have been not enough for me. Because after a couple of days of training here, getting up to this mountain. And take off by myself, I think I wouldn't have done
it maybe, you know. Because I think many women or pilots just start and then quit because they can't get the confidence. And in my case, I was really lucky because I had hours of tandem flying, of cross country flying, of ground handling. So my first altitude flight, I made it backwards. And I felt so confident about me. Handling the glider, that I didn't think about, oh, I'm now flying from a high mountain, you know. But if I think I would have done it after a couple of hours at the hill, then forward launching into the first time into nothing, I think I would have been scared.
You know? Yeah. So get that foundation. Yeah,
I think the sport is, you can have a good, you can manage the glider. Well, and it's about technique and practice. But yeah, for sure, the traditional school teaching is you get on a mountain quite quick. And then, I don't know, how would be the feeling to take off then without having this glider control, you know? I don't know.
What would you say? To a pilot, you know, a pretty new pilot that's maybe thinking about getting into competitions. What would you say just in general about competitions? What to be excited about? What to be maybe a little more nervous about? What to be careful about? Maybe a little bit of thoughts on equipment.
Yeah, for sure, equipment is very, very important. Having the right glider. You can fly competition on a B glider and a C glider. So it's not important to have the machine. To have the right equipment for your skills. Harness is very important too. The right combination of harness and glider. And for sure, rescue, the instruments, everything. Radio is important. And I think for new competition pilots, it's important to know. What he, she wants with this competition flying.
I think it's a great way to learn, to improve XC skills. The most important thing is not to want to win, you know, by starting competition. That's not the thing. You need to learn and there's so much to learn about in competition to be efficient. That's what I like most about competition. Like this feeling of efficient flying, you know, climbing well, then knowing where to climb, when to climb, when to leave a climb, taking the right line to fly efficiently. That's how you fly faster. So, and you learn this by, yeah, by competing, by watching, by joining, you need to be very attentive,
no, watching around. It's very important to be. Careful with that many pilots around and to be relaxed. That's the most important thing. If you can relax, terminating with so many pilots, you're all right. If you feel nervous still by terminating with so many pilots, maybe you need to just practice more terminating and flying. But when you're that comfortable flying, terminating with many pilots, you can be in the competition and then just, yeah, slowly learn slowly as always. There's some. Much time you have for flying so slowly and then the first goal is to improve your flying, so it's not important to come into goal.
The most important is always, as I said before now, is to have a safe landing after a safe start. So in competition flying, you can easily get into this racing mode and forget about the landing, but you need to be careful about the landing. Yeah. Yeah. I had
this very interesting, wasn't really a realization. It's just something, you know, but to see it visually every day in Valle, Josh Cohn, who's, you know, an amazing competition pilot and has been winning forever and is usually the one who's going to win Valle or the Menarca. I mean, he's always at the top. This year, they had a little baby a few months ago and he was flying the Omega X-Alps, you know. So most of the. You know, the top end comp pilots were on the Enzo and I'm flying the Evox now, but, you know, most of the top 20, of course, top 30 were on CCC gliders and Josh was on a, you know, a pretty reasonable D and a three liner and we really had a hard time shaking him.
You know, I mean, every glide you'd pull away and then he'd be there again because he's picking better lines and he's a better climber and it made me a lot more. Conscious of, you know, what, what I see that has been frustrating me in the last couple of years is, is people that are coming up and getting better and going to comps, you know, they, they get frustrated by the glide difference. Uh, you know, if they're on a C or they're on a low end D and, uh, and they want to move up too fast and they, they see that and they go, ah, I got to get an Enzo, you know, and I got to get a better glider to keep up with you guys. And I, I think that's. It's such a huge mistake because they don't have the hours. They don't have the time. And if you, if they had an Enzo, they're still not going to win, you know, they're, they've got a better tool, you know, they've got a, they've got a, you know, a better glider in terms of speed and glide, but, um, they're still, they're not going to win.
They don't have the experience and how you get the experiences is like you said, is getting the hours and the time on a, on a lower end glider and getting really good, you know, becoming a Josh cone on another glider and being able to keep up. And then you've got the time and the, and, uh, you know, the SIV experience, the whole thing, you're, you're, you're a more complete pilot. And I, it's frustrating to me to see so many people coming up so quickly, you know, to, to a hotter glider that they're really not ready for.
Yeah. Do you know, there are also a couple of, um, serial class competitions around. You could try, or you could, um, think about the flying sites because there's some flying sites that it's not. So important, um, the, the, the glider, you know, um, yeah, but usually pilots want to be there for sure. It's, it's not too nice always bombing out, you know, or, or it's frustrating as you, as you say, not to have the same speed and glide. But I remember my first comp here in Columbia in 2015, it was like that. I felt like, okay, I'm on my triangle. I, I didn't know anything about flatland flying because I'm used to the Alpine, uh, flying and it was just like, okay, I'm, I'm here bombing out many times.
I, I don't understand, but okay. I keep on flying. And then the last comp I've been doing in 2017 here, it was the best comp of my life. I still had my triangle. No, I had, uh, I changed from X-rays from X. C-free to X-rays, so a bit better glider, but still, still, uh, triangle.
And it's been two years in between, in between this comps and I just love this competition. And I, I had much more skills and I could keep off, uh, keep on even with the CNOS at that time. You know, I came into goal 10 minutes after, and it was so happy because, um, during the flight, I could keep up. Quite well with them when, when it was a strong day with good conditions, um, and then just on the, uh, yeah, on the final part. So in between this two years of experiences, experience of competition, flying the first year here in Colombia, bombing out all the time. Um, and then two years after keeping up with the CNOS on my triangle, it was, yeah.
Yeah, that's rewarding. It's a big difference, um, but that's why it's worth it. Keep on going, you know?
Yeah, that's, that's, that, there's a lot of reward in that, you know, where you're feeling like, I am, I'm doing better. I'm flying better. You
are learning all the time and you're, you never stop learning. And that's the, the beauty of, about the sport as well.
Uh, when you look back at your flying career, uh, if you could go back to your 50 hour self, you know, so you rewind to that first year. Yeah. Yeah. You're learning and, uh, you're very new. Um, if you could change anything, what would you change?
I think, um, the most important is to know when you're getting tired. I had two experiences, one in the SIV and one coming into goal in the competitions. Then I realized, um, I was exhausted. So. To know when to. Land and to know when to stop the day, you know, after five, seven flights in SIV, you just might be too, um, tired to, to keep on, um, to keep on flying. So there have been this experiences I had that I'm would say, uh, calm down and just, yeah, again, slowly.
Yeah.
Take it easy.
And if you are exhausted, tired, stop for the day.
In all your travels, uh, you guys wandering around the world for these last 10 years, 12 years. Um, what's, what's the place you get most excited to fly? If you could go anywhere right now, I know you're in Columbia, which is one of your favorites and that might be the favorite, but where would you go?
Ah, I would go to India again. Beer. Yeah. I love this place. It's been, yeah, it's been great. But also Brazil, Brazil, we've been to Castelo, but again, it. It depends on the experience you have and the conditions you get at the time. You are, we've been to Castelo in this year, I think 2016, and it's been perfect. It's been the other best comp of my life where I kept in the World Cup where I kept up with the two liners quite well still. Um, because we had this bombastic conditions, beautiful, um, place in Castelo, flatlands again, and with this crazy hills, it's just.
I've seen pictures. It's beautiful.
It's, it's crazy. It's beautiful. And all the lifestyle people, food, it's been great.
When you, when you look back at your comp flying, um, was there a moment or a time that you can really identify that, uh, you know, you kind of made a leap, like, like something clicked and something, you know, like, oh, I'm, I figured this out. It was there. Was it a strategy change? Was it a thermaling technique? Was it finding sniffing out better? Better lines? Was there, was there something, um, that, you know, like an aha moment in your, in your comp career?
Yeah. The line things. That's most important. I think when I just, the line flying, you know, Like flying
lines. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I realized
what means flying lines, what everybody's talking about, you know, or yeah, to use the accelerator, right. Um, to, to have efficient. Um. Um, crossings, valley crossings, or line flying, because it's quite easy to become a good, um, or thermal flyer to be quick in climbing and on top of the stack and to be good positions, but then, um, the jump to become a good, um, navigation pilot to navigate the sky. Um, this has been quite a while to get this feeling. Um, under the glider to how to, how to fly out the lines, especially here in the flats, for example, to, because if you also in the Alps, if you make a big, um, valley crossing, just pushing the bar like crazy, losing all your height, no, uh, it's not working.
You need to be, to take the best line to, to make the best crossing compared to the other pilot.
This is something that, um, I've never. Never had a guest really be able to articulate how to do is there, can you explain how to do that? Or is it just feel
it's it's feel for sure. It's for sure different on a two liner. I never flew two liners. Um, so all my competition and work of flying, I did on a three liner, but I did it because I enjoyed for sure. There could have been the time then to change, but then I became a baby, but on the three liners, it's, it's a feel. You need to relax, to lay back in your harness and, and feel and take the, the C or B rises and then let the glider go, you know, let the glider go and feel it and watch the clouds, the birds, the other pilots around.
Yeah, I've, I've just, I feel like I've had a kind of a personal breakthrough in the last year with, with, with lines and it was for me. It was backing off, uh, not hammering speed so much, I mean, especially in comps, um, you know, in the X outs, it's all about staying in the air, you know, you just have to stay up. Um, but I've, I've, I've learned more in the comps now to, to back off a little bit on the, on the lines. Cause it's easier to feel when you're not using as much speed and it's easier to let the glider do its thing. And, um, that, that has really helped. But I think that. You know, when you, when you see the pilots that really find good lines, it's, it's, it's almost like magic.
Yeah. There's some really birds out there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My husband, actually, I've been following him a lot and thinking, how can he do, how, how is he doing? Or Xevi Bonet. Yeah. There are many pilots to name. Xevi's amazing. He will be here. Yeah. The next days.
I'll be following him quite a bit. I'm sure. If I can. Yeah. He's amazing. He's amazing. Um, any last bit of advice for, uh, for specifically females, um, either getting into the sport or kind of at the learning stage, you know, any last bit of, you know, maybe something to avoid or something to look out for, or, you know, like you talked about, uh, and Isabella actually talked about that on the podcast we did with her, the intimidation factor on launch. Is there, are there any? Are there any kind of headspace things that you can, that have helped you?
Yeah. Um, do your thing and be confident with yourself. You can do it. Um, you don't have to show anybody, um, practice a lot, practice a lot on your glider, um, skills, ground handling skills, and for sure there will always be moments, um, or comments. Um, that can frustrate you or intimidate you, but no, don't take, um, yeah, don't, don't hear too much. And if you're not, um, if you're not sure about something, ask the others. There are many women around.
Um, ask them how they are feeling, how they're doing. Keep in contact. Um, make your, um, yeah, your flying group. Um. And, um, and, and keep it slowly again. And, and think about, think about, um, what you really want and enjoy. And yeah, be honest to yourself. And if there's a moment you don't enjoy, think about how you can improve, um, the situation.
Great. Well, I think that's a perfect place to end. Uh, Anna-Lena, thank you so much. I can't wait to compete with you. I can't wait to compete with your husband next week. Are you, and are you going to do the comp?
No. Okay. I'll be on the ground. Okay. I'm the ground support. The ground support. Excellent. For sure. I will go to take off one day with, with my baby. Yeah. And, and watch you. Awesome. I wish you a great comp.
Thank you very much. Well, I appreciate it. And thanks for your time and the coffee in your shoes. And, uh, yeah, we'll see you on launch. Thank
you for your invitation.
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