Hi
there everybody, welcome to another episode of the Cloud Base Mayhem. Got a great show for you today. A lot of people have been wanting me to talk to Damien Lacaze. If you don't know that name, you should, but if you don't, you'll be psyched you do after this show. He was Antoine Girard's partner on that huge bivy those guys went and put down this summer in the Pakistani Himalaya. Flying through some really seriously rad terrain. The Triangle Towers and Broad Peak and they did some mountaineering on that. It's an awesome, awesome story and I really appreciate him giving it to us. So before we get to that though, a couple little bits of housekeeping. There's a race coming up down in Valle right before Menarca.
If you haven't been to Valle before, you need to get down there. It's amazing, but Menarca filled up pretty quick. And this is a good reason to go down. Marco's race, Marco I had on the podcast a while back. He is a Czech pilot. He's also in the X-Alps this year. This is his first go at the X-Alps. Really awesome pilot. He won the Menarca last year on an ENC glider. But he, last year was the inaugural, what's called the XC Sky Race, which is really aimed at just the best XC pilot. They have a really cool scoring algorithm that combines. Um, X contest, but also your, your, your wing classification and, uh, how fast you fly and you're basically just rewarded for going big and getting home.
So putting up the best points, uh, so you can definitely win this thing on like an ENB glider. Super fun, very casual, a great way to get warmed up for the Menarca, much less stressful than kind of race to goal comps. It is the sixth to the 12th. It's like 200 bucks, super cheap. They did a great job last year. He's refined. The scoring system a bit to adjust for, uh, the different wings and, uh, it's just going to be a blast. There's three, as I know, I think there might even be more than that, but there's at least three X-Alps pilots in it. Uh, myself, Willie Cannell and Marco himself, the race director. So great opportunity to fly with some, some good pilots and get a lot of mentoring and get used to VIA and get all warmed up for the Menarca. So go to XCSkyrace.com, check that out and, uh, sign up if you can.
The second bit of housekeeping, um, it's been a long time this morning with, uh, the foundation for free, free flight, uh, with Jane who took it over a little while back, um, after the hang gliding episode we did, uh, and David Glover, uh, they put me in touch and I've been working with the foundation for free flight for quite a while because of the last two X-Alps campaigns. They've been super supportive for hang gliding and paragliding competitions, uh, the world's teams, but also their, their biggest work by far is site preparation. Preservation and safety, and a lot of people just really don't know what they do. This is a totally separate branch from USHPA. Um, Jane actually used to run USHPA, but those of you who fly in North America, uh, especially those of you who fly in the States, um, please go check out their website, just Google foundation for free flight.
And if you can, in this holiday season, if you can bump them a few dollars, uh, they do really, really, really important work. Their entire staff is volunteer, um, and they keep most of the, of our precious. sites open, uh, around the country. So they do very, very important work that a lot of people don't know about. And, uh, and this is the giving season. Uh, they could use some, some dollars for sure. And, uh, I promise you they're, they're just fantastic people doing wonderful things and they're making it possible for all of us to, uh, enjoy our sky crack addiction. Uh, okay, let's get to the show. Damien Lacaze, uh, he was Benoit Outers, uh, supporter. I'm not saying Benoit's last name, right? I'm probably not even saying his first name, right? But, uh, those of you who watched the 2017 X-Alps, you know, that only two people got in, Chrigel and Benoit.
Uh, what I didn't know, it's unbelievably fascinating. They're actually not allowing this in 2019, but Damien flew every single flight with, uh, with Benoit. Uh, so clearly a super talented pilot. Uh, he kind of got the best of it. He's a great pilot. He's a great pilot. He's a great pilot. He's a of all the worlds of the X-Alps. He didn't walk on the roads, but he did every hike with Benoit and he did every flight with Benoit, including day two. Those of you that watch that race. And we talk about this in the show, um, some terrifically strong North Fern going from the South side over across, or sorry, from the North side over the South side. Uh, I watched Benoit coming down through the Canyon and landing on a backside of a cliff and the trees. And he actually got a little bit of hurt doing that. And, and I was wondering who was right with him. And that was, that was Damien. So very, very talented. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,
and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, um, and kind of near Brianne Some and in that race, uh, or just before the race got to know Antoine Girard who on that exact same day, day two got really hurt trying to launch in those very dicey conditions and wasn't able to keep going. But, uh, Antoine got healed up and, uh, went back, you know, as you all know, he broke the, he was the first person to break the 8,000 meter record. I think two years before that flying over broad peak. So we got a good look at the Himalayas. and got a look good look at that whole zone and uh desperately wanted to go back and so those guys became friends at koopa car and uh well the rest is history that 1500 km uh incredible bivy some pretty wild mountaineering some cerebral edema uh and the very first day antoine lands super hard because you're landing you're flying very very high there and you're landing very high so you're flying really fast and he thought he broke his ankle and uh they you know damien really thought the expedition was over and antoine just powered through as he does so yeah tough dude i won't tell you anymore you're gonna love this story i appreciate damien fighting through it in his non-native language but uh we had a blast doing this and i think you're gonna really enjoy it so without further delay please enjoy this conversation with damien
damien uh so great to have you on the show i really appreciate it i i just read your your three incredible articles i i mean i did the translation from french to english with google so i'm sure it loses some of its uh some of its articulation but it was a it's amazing story and i i can't wait to talk to you about the the big vol biv trip you did with with uh with antoine my friend antoine it's he's been doing some amazing things lately before we get to uh pakistan and your your big expedition i'd i'd love to just ask you uh about the about the X-Alps you were benoit's supporter in the in the race in 2017 and you were the only other team to finish other than Chrigel and i before we started recording a couple days ago you mentioned that you did uh quite a bit of flying with with benoit in the race i wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about your experience in the X-Alps thank
you thank you um in first um i think normally uh next uh country mag uh will publish uh an english article oh
great i
don't know when i i think the next one so uh we it's a shorter article a bit shorter but uh it's quite the same then uh for a previous x-alp with benoit well uh in 2016 when benoit was selected i just just send him uh an sms for congratulate uh him he responded me uh do you come with me i'm looking for a pilot for for fly with me so he had already uh all the supporters the assistant for for drive and for cooking and the other things it it was interesting for me to do this race but only the good uh the good things only fly or walk in the mountain and no running on the into the shower and in the flat roads
perfect it was like the it was like the perfect X-Alps experience
so i said i said yes and uh and we do we did that i i flew with him uh uh every day uh and i walk in the mountain every day only when benoit walks on on the road i i stay in the car and uh him to, to eat and to, to know where, where he, uh, he go. And were you, were you
friends before or, or you just say,
uh, yeah, we were friends for, not for a long time, not for a very long time because Benoit is flying for, uh, four years, three years. He's a, he's a beginner in paragliding before he was, uh, he was, uh, an ultra trailer. So he, uh, and one day he, he live in Gordon. Do you know Gordon? Yeah, I know it well. Yeah.
Beautiful place. And
one day, uh, he, he landed, uh, very close to my home in, in Ambrun with a friend with me. And, uh, I, I didn't know Benoit and the other guy, my friend called, called me and said, uh, Hey, uh, could you, uh, could we, uh, sleep in your home? Because, uh, it's later. Uh, and, uh, now it's night and we are looking, uh, home. So he come with Benoit for sleep in my home and Benoit was only one year of flight and he did his flight with, uh, uh, Ux3 Niviuk, uh, NB glider. He did 160 Ks.
Wow. With that. Amazing talent. What a talented pilot.
Yeah. Yeah. He had a very, very fast program. And I, I know him like that and, uh, two, two years ago, uh, we, uh, the, the years, uh, after, uh, we, uh, after that, uh, we, we fly some cross country, uh, together. And, uh, two years ago, he, he was selected to X-Alp and, uh, he proposed to me to, to come with him. I said, yes. And, uh, I, I was, um, sure Benoit wanted to go, uh, to this race. Uh, not only. Not only for discover the race and for participate, uh, I know he's a pilot, uh, qualities and I know too, uh, he's a runner qualities and, uh, I, uh, I knew, uh, it was, um, able to, to do, uh, a big thing, uh, in this race and, uh, he did it.
What do you think? I, we, I know we, I know we need to speak about Pakistan, but just because I'm such an X-Alps junkie. Uh, and you know, I'm going back this year and I know you applied to go back and the French are so deep with talent, you know, with Gaspard and Antoine and, uh, it, it, in Maxime, it was, you know, it, it, I feel, I feel bad that you didn't make the team, but, uh, make the X-Alps cause obviously you're very, very well qualified and I'm sure you'll make it in, in 2021, but you know, what, what do you think was the real, um, what, what was, what made your success? In the race? Because, you know, for a rookie and someone who hadn't been flying very long, I mean, obviously very good pilot and, uh, very strong physically, but, uh, you know, it's, it's challenging for a rookie team to, to come in second.
Uh, what do you think was the reason for your success?
It's like, um, I think it's like, uh, cross country competitions. Uh, I, me, I, um, I compete in PW, PWAC and, uh, the, the best, the best, the best, the best pilots win, but there is always chance factor, you know, chance or, and Benoit is very strong in flight. And, uh, I think with me, we were the only French, uh, with, uh, uh, flight supporter. I think it's a really, really, uh, good, uh, help for, for, for be competitive. And, uh, moreover, uh, maybe we have a little bit chance. Yeah. Uh, yeah, we were at the right, right place at the right time.
And, uh, we are very strong because all the, all the night after, after the flight, he put, he push it, uh, he push him to, to run and to do, um, 20 K Ks more by foot every night, every morning, then on the morning, uh, go up, uh, 2000 meters, uh, and he did maybe 3000 meters by day for. 10 days every day plus, uh, plus, uh, 80 Ks by foot. Uh, it was incredibly, uh, he was strong. So he used his two night pass. It's very important. And, uh, the, the second one, the second one permit him to, to pass, uh, to pass in front of Paul.
Yeah. He passed in front of Paul.
Yeah. Cause Paul was, Paul was right in there with you guys, uh, after the Matterhorn, he was pretty tight, wasn't he? So. So, um, you know, this, this year they, they, Damien, they, they've changed the rules now. Um, and you can't, you can't team fly in 2019 because that's been a complaint of some of the pilots in the past. And I think, you know, for me personally, because Chrigel has never done it, I, I've, I've always, I don't care to me. It's doesn't matter at all. But, um, do you think, will you be two questions? Will you be supporting him this year again? And then. Um, what, how do you think it will affect him without having the, the team flying? Cause clearly you guys really flew well together.
Um, so I'm, I'm aware about the new rules because, uh, Tom, Tom, the dollar door, uh, asked me to, to do the same, uh, with him, uh, last year, uh, next year. So, and, uh, then, uh, he read the, he read the, the reglement, the regulations.
And he, he saw, uh, it was forbidden to, to have a flight reporter. So. Are
you going to be supporting Tom this time?
Yeah. So no, I, I, uh, uh, Benoit asked me to, to do the same and I, uh, take the time for reflection. And, uh, I, I, uh, I said no to the two guys because, uh, it's too much time to. Yeah. To do that. And, uh, it's, uh, lots of time and not for me. Yeah. So it's one, one, one, one thing it's a wonderful experience, but, uh, two, it's too much for me. Yeah. It's
a major, major commitment. Okay. One more, one more X-Alps question. And then we, then we switched to Pakistan, um, day two, uh, of the race, uh, remember day one was terrible. And then day two was really strong. North fern and very, very dicey. Um, I, I had taken my night pass. So I was down with Sebastian Hubert Huber down in the CA because when we got to the past that night or that morning, it was totally unflyable. And then it started getting better. And at one point I was down, you know, making my way south towards Slovenia, but, you know, just out of that very deep Canyon. Uh, and I turned around and I started seeing, you know, uh, Gaspard and Benoit.
And people, Paul flying out of that Canyon. It was just terrifying and they really, really, uh, incredibly strong and very, very dicey conditions. Um, did, did you fly with him there too? Yeah. Really?
If you want to know all the history, it's a bit funny because we walk, uh, uh, on the, the bus, you know, the part with the lake. Yeah. Yeah. We would like, yeah, we would like to take off on this bus. And when we, we reached it, uh, we, we, we saw the wind and we, we, we said, uh, we said this, uh, it's not possible to fly very, very strong, very turbulent, fun, fun wind. So we, we go by foot in flat. We don't, we don't go down. Yeah. You understand? Yeah. Yeah.
You, you, you contour. The
same altitude, uh, down, down the wind to, uh, and we, uh, we, we would like to find another takeoff, maybe one or two Ks more under the wind. And, uh, we, we thought, uh, maybe it was, it will be, uh, uh, a bit less turbulence. So we, we, we were trying to, to find this and probably take off and maybe two hours or three hours later. We find, uh, take off a bit, a bit, uh, protected, uh, uh, by, by the fun, but we, we, it was very turbulent, very strong to take off. And, uh, we,
we watching the valley and, and we saw the right wing of Gaspar, uh, going down the valley at maybe 80 KPA, uh, uh, in, in all the positions. Uh, yeah. And, uh, we saw there is Gaspar here and Gaspar is, uh, uh, is, uh, the only guys, uh, I know who pass fun cloud in flight.
Yeah. He was just, I just recently went back and looked at the replay of, of the, of the race and he, he, he had taken off from way over on the south side, you know, that he flew up and over the past. Oh, Jesus. Terrifying. It
was very late. Yeah. Yeah. And so we, we, we saw Gaspar. So we, we, we said us, uh, we have to, we have to fly now it's, it's not possible to, so I, I take off in first and, uh, because, uh, it's my, it's my job, it was my job. And, uh, my wing fly maybe 10 meters and then nothing, my wing, my wing, uh, all, I don't know, big, uh, fully opened. Yeah. I took off, uh, no fly. And, uh, I crash into the grass, maybe 10 meters. I don't know why, uh, no collapse. No.
So, uh,
I was okay, but I said my Nelson was, uh, there was a, we first too. So I said to, uh, to burn one at a time. Okay. Uh, if you want to go, uh, I, I watch you and after I will they see the, I try again. So burn, we go, go and take him off the bus. And he chose a bad moment, I think. He take a small collapse and fly to go in the gorge. But he was low, very low. And in the gorge, he going down very, very fast. Very fast. I saw his
whole flight. I saw him land in the trees. And it was just, oh, God.
With Nelson, we were in the takeoff and we can see him. So, we taking off together just after. And for us, it was better. We go up a little bit in soaring with the fan and go in the gorge, but higher. And maybe five minutes later, I saw Benoit landed in the gorge just behind a big, big rock under the wind. And he said, I mean, by radio, go away, go away. Don't land here. And so, I fly a bit with Gaspar and Nelson. And I land just after the valley when the fun was lighter.
And I land in back fly. Yeah. So, it was very, very strong. And Benoit, until his foot catches the ground, he thought, I'm going to die. I'm going to die all the time. So, it was not a good experience. But after that, Pierre Rivalois, a friend of him who drives the team with his computer in France, called him and sent him, you have a takeoff at 600 meters above you if you want to try again. And Benoit woke up and tried again in the fun. And takeoff again and make a big flight until just maybe 20 k's before Slovenia.
Yeah. I actually was just getting ready to take off right when Benoit was coming down the canyon. Because I was just beyond the canyon and I'd found a little launch. And I had to kind of go around a corner to get out of the fern and out of this really strong wind. And I looked back and I saw Benoit go in there. And I saw him go into the, and I couldn't tell from my perspective if he was in a tree or he was okay. But I called the safety director, you know, the Red Bull safety director. And I said, you know, there's a lot of wings coming out of this canyon and someone's going to get hurt. This is crazy. I mean, I don't know who it was. I don't know if it was Gaspard. No, it wasn't Gaspard because he kept going. But one of the pilots got out of the canyon there and he was quite high. He had enough height to go quite a bit further.
And he just spiraled right. To the ground. He just was like, okay, that's it. I'm done. Yeah, it
was me who spiraled onto the ground because I was waiting for Benoit. Yeah, it was me at the end of the valley. I landed here because it was more safe. Yeah. And I have to wait for Benoit.
Yeah, because I had the same. If I
was an athlete, I didn't land here. And Gaspard saw me and he said to me that after he saw me landed here and he didn't understand why. And he didn't know it was me. Ah, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, he was sure having a good race until he got hurt. It was fun to watch him. But, well, amazing. I have to hand it to you. That was obviously very, very good training going through the Alps for what was. Did you know then during the race that you and Antoine were going to Pakistan or did that happen much, much later?
Yeah, the first time we talked about that, it was during the pre-week before the race. Okay. You know, we have lots of time for. Yeah, plenty. And wait for some interview or shooting photo. So we talked about that with Benoit. And maybe we said we can go in Pakistan by two teams of two persons or one team or three, maybe. It was the first time we talked about that. And then in September at the Copicar, Benoit said to us, I can't come with you because he finds a job in the bombers.
Hmm. And so. So Antoine was already looking for one guy. So I said, okay, I'm okay. And I know I knew Antoine a bit before, but it wasn't a friend. We flew some XC cross country flight together and we talked a bit when we were in competition. But it wasn't a friend. It wasn't a friend before this, this adventure.
So tell me about the, the kind of the lead up from, from Copicar to when you, when you went to Pakistan. You know, obviously Antoine had done the big solo journey there the year before, the year before the, the X-Alps. And he, you know, that's when he got the, the altitude record in front of Broad Peak and, you know, they made that amazing film. But when you decided to team up together, you know. Was it, did you fly much together before the trip or was it mostly that winter just talking about logistics and what you would bring and equipment and that kind of thing? How did, what, what were you doing in the kind of between September and June?
No, we, we, Antoine is a very busy guy. Yeah. So, so we, we didn't fly a lot together between September and the departure. We just organized a weekend, a full weekend to, with all the equipment, maybe one month before the, the departure to check all the details. And, but we didn't fly a lot together before. But I know Antoine, I know he's a good pilot and he, he knew me. We know it was not a problem, but.
For the listeners, if you, if you're not aware. Uh, the day we were talking about the second day of the X-Alps that was so incredibly dicey, uh, Antoine also tried to take off and, uh, quite a similar place, uh, where, where Damien was talking about. Yeah. And he got really hurt and that was the end of his, his race. So that was another question I had for you. How, how was he, uh, when he was that in, because I think in Koopa car, he was still pretty injured, wasn't he? And, and then what was he, was he 100 %? By the time of your trip, uh,
Antoine, uh, I think, uh, yeah, he's, he's, um, he's new was, uh, not, maybe not 7%, but, uh, he was good. He, he, he could, uh, yeah, he, he can, he, before departure, he can walk, uh, normally, uh, he can, uh, take a big bag, but, uh, he, he can't, he can't run.
Right, right. Okay.
And, uh, it was the same for me because I had a surgery. Uh, uh, three months before the departure, a little surgery, but, uh, I, I, I wasn't, uh, at, uh, some percent, uh, two. So we were two, uh, two, uh, injury guys.
Okay. So, um, you, you got, you got to fly together and kind of test the equipment about a month before you went. Um, but, uh, how did you decide on the route? Because it was, you, you forwarded that link to me. I looked at it. It's amazing. It, uh, uh, and it's in your articles and I'll, I'll, I'll point the listeners to your articles in the show notes, but, well, first, had you been to Pakistan before? Was this your first trip?
No, neither. Um, I, I, it was my first, uh, first time in Asia. Okay. First time in the Himalaya. Yeah. Himalaya, Nepal, neither. And for the route choice, I, I let Antoine, uh, chose the, the main, the main. Uh, part of the route because I, I didn't know this Himalaya and, uh, I just, uh, say the, uh, said to him, uh, I would like to, to see Nanga Parbat and maybe to fly in battle like you, uh, two years ago. Antoine knows, uh, the country because he, he, he did, uh, a bigger, uh, two, uh, two years ago. And, uh, he choose a route to who cross, uh,
cross a Harrier. He. I don't know yet. So, uh, we, we would like to go on in the West, in the, in near the Afghan border because, uh, he, uh, he said, uh, it was very nice, very peace and, uh, and, uh, very, uh, uh, forgotten, forgotten, forgotten mountains. Very, um, savage, uh, savage. I don't know.
I like that word. Very savage. Very remote. And
we, we were, we were. Do you want, uh, how long the ride was, uh, until then? Did you want to, to do a little, do you know no, no. During the trip, we, we include a mountaineering option. Yup. Yup. Yeah. Yeah.
I was gonna, I was going to ask you about your, your, your gear. What did you have, uh, you know, crampons, ice acts. Rope.
Not during the first part. There were three parts. The first part is around 1,000 Ks of bull beef between Skardu and Karimabad. We decided to stop in Karimabad to take some
rest and try to do a 7,000-meter mountain with a paragliding approach and to go up and go down in two days. Karimabad to Sumit and Sumit to Karimabad in two days.
Okay. I didn't quite understand that from the articles. Okay. So, Normally,
if you want to make a 7,000-meter summit, maybe in classic mountaineering, you have to take one month maybe for acclimatization approach, porter. The trip was to make a little revolution in mountaineering approach and to land directly at the bottom of the face, and just climb the face and take off from the summit and go going down immediately.
Now, were you using just light, normal, the wings that you had flown with for the first 1,000 Ks, or did you use single-surface wings, like super light gear for that part? No, no,
no. Because from Karimabad to our landing on the big area under the summit, we had to fly 40 kilometers. 40 Ks, cross country, 40 Ks. Well, maybe two or three hours of flight. So, with single surface, it was not possible. We need cross country wings, but we took a string harness, very light harness, and no rescue because we had to walk with all the stuff after or try to take off from the summit. And for alpinism gear,
we have sent a bag with all the stuff to a contact, a guy who we know in Karimabad, and he was keeping the bag and going back when we arrived in Karimabad.
Ah, and did that work? It all worked out? So, you flew? Yeah. You flew the 40 K to kind of the base of the mountain, or the base area, and you switched out your gear, and then you did the summit? Yeah. Wow. Yeah,
with light axes, crampons, rope, and only in the bag, two days of food, a little tent, no sleeping bag. The wing is a good sleeping bag, and the wing for flight, for going down. So, was
this where Antoine got hurt, or was that later?
His ankle, no, it was the first day, first landing.
Oh, no. Okay, so he... Yeah. But it wasn't broken, was it? Because in the article, he said, oh, I think I broke my ankle.
Yeah. On the first day, on first flight day, we made an amazing flight from Karimabad, Skardu to the west of Nanga Parbat. We flew on the south face of Nanga Parbat. Do you know the history of Elisabeth Revol this winter?
No. The
French? No. It's a woman who were blocked in this mountain from three or four days with his companion dead and with a big expedition to rescue. And so we fly just on this part of the mountain on the Nanga Parbat. And after we land maybe 40 km in the west of this mountain, our first landing, maybe we flew 15 km over the max. And we landed at 4,500 meters.
So we land very fast without wind. So we land very fast. And then this first landing, Antoine brought his ankle.
And the ankle became blue very quickly. And I don't know the name. Very big, big ankle. He can't walk. And he said to me, so for the next, it's forbidden to walk now. We have to land on the top. On the top every day. And we did that.
So Damien, so the 1,000 km between Skardu and the 7,000 meter climb, what was the name of that place? I should have the map in front of me.
The Spantik.
Spantik, okay. So how much of that, because his ankle, did you fly all of it? Or were you still having to walk some?
After that, we knew it was impossible to walk for him. Moreover, we had a very, very big bag. Because we took 15 or 16 days of food. Because we planned to not going down before Karimabad. So Karimabad, he was at 1,000 km of Skardu. By the route, so we take a bag around the 35 kilos with water, very, very heavy. So we tried to don't walk or, and it was forbidden for us to land in the bottom of the valley.
We try every day to land in high altitude between 4,000 and 6,000 meters. And for that, we. We. Find the landing place very early, maybe at 4 p.m., 5 p.m., but not later, because we really don't want to land in the bottom. Yeah, you didn't want
to bomb out. So I was writing to you before when we were kind of thinking about some of the podcast questions and, you know, the two really big bivvies that I've done in Canada and Alaska, you know, I never found it very real. How
did you does the first day need keep a lot of weight. But it was reasonable
to carry more than like seven days of food. How did you manage 16 days of food? What, what gear did you have? Because it's a lot of weight and it's a lot of space. For me, it's always been the space. It hasn't really been the weight. It's just been the place to put it.
We took the minimum. We took only for one day in food, we took one desidrated pack. Okay. You know? Your Feliz. Yeah. And 200 grams of cereal, like mostly for the morning. And some cereal like almonds or nuts or during the day, but no more. So maybe 400 grams of food desidrated by day, no more. It was not enough if we walked.
Yeah. Okay. So just bare minimum. Calories just for flying.
Yeah. And we knew if we are forced to walk and to eat more, we can go down immediately and find a village when we want. But the plan was to try to reach Karimabad in one shot.
Okay. Okay. Okay. So how much bivy experience did you have? Um, coming into this, this trip, uh,
before, uh, um, for me, I, I, uh, did, uh, only one bivy, uh, bivy flight before I, uh, I cross, um, Moroccan Atlas with a friend in 2013. So
you had the one bivy in the, in the Atlas in Morocco. Um, and, and then, so this was the kind of the second big one.
Yeah. It's my second big one. And, uh, of course the, the biggest.
Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't get much bigger than that.
So how many days, uh, how many days did it take you for the, the first segment from the, from the start, the first day Antoine, uh, breaks his ankle? Was it literally broken?
Yeah. No, not, not broken, but, uh, um, I don't know the name exactly. I think, I think sprain, I looked at the
pictures and it was just really swollen and very, very purple. And I, I, it looks like to me a sprain, which is really. painful it
was a tearing of ligament yeah yeah
of course when ouch yeah
yeah it is it was very bad because uh now it's uh he's not uh he's not in 100 percent of uh for his ankle and uh he said he tell it to his uh surgeon the doctor he want to to do the next exhalp so he don't doesn't want to to have a surgery and uh he have to plan a surgery for after the next exhalp because his ankle is not good
ouch that's gonna be tough yeah
it's not good yeah and i i think if i was a him at this moment uh i i choose to stop the expedition i don't know why uh he doesn't want to stop and i i say to to antoine if you want to stop it's not a problem don't uh don't go only for me and uh no no it was not for me he he go on for for him just because he never give up
wow he's a strong strong in the mind he's very strong because because it's
not good i
mean it's one thing to to do the the flying you know all the way down to to the uh to the climbing section but the once you got to the climbing section and he's really hard on the ankle that must have been excruciating for him for
the ascent of spantic uh it was okay because um it was maybe 20 days before his his uh shock his accident okay this accident so the ankle was not good but uh the the pain uh was super terrible and uh he wear he wear at a big big shoes uh big high mountain shoes so the ankle don't move enough and they in he walked in the snow so it's not like uh when you walk in the on the road for example the the foot don't move enough and it was okay okay
and now briefly just outline after the climb and we're going to come back and do you know and get into each of these areas deeper but so the the the third segment uh after what is the name of the peak you climbed i guess yeah uh spantic yeah spantic um after that uh it's it's it's completing the circuit correct it's getting back to the beginning no
no so to uh from skardu to karimabad we we we fly uh 12 days for the first part
okay in
12 days we were in karimabad then spantic we had bad weather during the ascension so we are we were forced to going down only once um 100 meter um
before the summit 100 meters maybe 30 or 30 minutes of walk but the razor was very very bad and uh we were forced to going down moreover antoine was very uh tired and uh i didn't understand why uh i i knew antoine and he he he's very a very strong guy and uh he can do make the the track in the snow he's too tired it's not a normal situation and uh when we go down i i see the the really uh situation of antoine he was very very bad he's sleeping sitting down in the snow and sleeping immediately i i was forced to to uh call him for a wake up and i was forced to wake up and uh going down going down again and uh after uh doctor said us uh he was um making uh
yeah no no yeah he was sleeping always and then in the bad weather we we stay two days in the snow at uh six thousand and five hundred meters on the plateau
we can doing uh doing down uh because uh under the plateau there is only cliff and serac and uh so we we uh we absolutely absolutely need to take off and uh we are we waiting two days uh for better weather weather oh
man he was really sick i mean that's incredibly dangerous we
we take off in uh in the cloud because uh it was very important to to go down antoine it was very bad and uh as soon as the the wind was in the good right direction and not too strong we uh we made a route on our gps and uh taking off through the clouds and we fly five kilometers through the clouds to go down uh by follow the the how in the in the gps after we going out to the clouds and uh so the valley and the glacier and uh and we we we said uh it's okay now we are safe that
was that it was that a really scary flight it sounds terrifying yeah
yeah we were after the takeoff we were um
white out you
couldn't see yeah
we were um relieved you know yeah
relieved yeah yeah yeah very happy we
are relieved because uh because we we were in flight very very scared by the clouds and the around house we we there are there are there is a lots of peaks over six thousand meters six thousand meters yeah and uh you can't
see him it
was very afraid to follow this arrow and and don't don't know if uh big mountains uh show his his face uh 20 meters behind but uh yeah five kilometers like that is very long
that's a long way that's really yeah that's that that's that's scary i don't know if you've seen the the opening of our alaska film but i i get stuffed into a cloud in very different circumstances but i i get cloud you know cloud suck and got up in a cloud for about 20 minutes and you you start following the arrows and trying to trust in your instruments and it's really it's a very it's very tense to say the least it's scary you hope you don't you know you hope you don't just suddenly run into a mountain yeah
because we we haven't uh any choice and uh at the moment when we are in that situation for two days and you know you have to go down now because uh if you you wait one days more maybe your friend can't wake up because maybe
he dies
he can drink he sleep every day so you you said us okay i take off if i if i crash in the in the mountain uh i will try and uh we will see but uh i prefer to crash on the mountain uh in the cloud to to to yeah
then to
stay then to just sit and die oh
man okay so you make it down you get down to the bottom and and what is the third what is the the next step what's the third segment going
down we are some problem with uh police because uh they they knew we flied in the area and we haven't any authorization so we we take two days in the office to to regularize the situation but the police is very kind kindly and just they explained it was forbidden to fly without without authorization and some shippers in the mountains uh we meet some shippers in the mountain they took some picture of us and uh put on facebook oh and we didn't we didn't know that and uh in in the hotel karimabad a policeman uh come come come and uh
show me a picture on his smartphone and you it was me on facebook
amazing is it true i i think it was a tourist and i i i tell him yes it's me it's nice uh where do you find it and he said me i'm a policeman it's forbidden to fly in the mountain it was funny but you have to be uh careful with the shipper they all
have iphones now unbelievable unbelievable
today is for that and after we are waiting for one week one week uh about bad weather again so uh we we have a we made a good choice to to try to go down by flight because the river the weather was not better the next days so uh if we if if we choose to wait on the plateau on the spantic uh maybe uh we wait a very long time in bad weather so one week later the the weather became better try to go back to Skardu, but with a visit to Baltoro Glacier and Trango Tower, K2 and Broad Peak.
So for that we had to cross over the Span Tic and to go east to Ascoli. Ascoli is the last village before Baltoro Glacier. It's the start of every trek, every big trek until K2 base camp and Ispar Glacier, a very famous trek in Pakistan. So we did a flight over 130km from Karimabad to Ascoli and we landed on a ridge at 5,000m. And we waited for a good day to try to go to Baltoro.
So this connection flight, it's very wild and very savage. We crossed the Span Tic so we had to fly over 6,500m to pass Ascoli.
And the cloud base was very just, very limited. We are forced to climb maybe 200 or 300m above the cloud base to cross the Span Tic. And after we're going down a big glacier, maybe 30km to going down with no landing area and lots of wind. So we have to walk days if we land. Yeah, maybe all the flight during the trip, if we land on the glacier, maybe we have to walk one week to going to the first village. And with the ankle of Antwerp, it's very complicated if we land.
So this part is very hard to integrate, to do. So we have to keep in mind during all the flight.
Yeah. And then, is that, how many days was from Span Tic to the end?
Span Tic to the end, we flew one day to Ascoli. Then Ascoli, we had one day of very bad weather. We spent in the tent all the day. And the day next, the day after, we go in Baltoro glacier. We did one day in Baltoro glacier. We did one tentative to go to the Broad Peak.
The weather and the cloud was, wasn't higher. So we going down, we going back at the same place and make another flight. So three days. And after we going back, maybe five days. Five days, yeah.
Okay. Okay.
Five days to finish the trip.
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just briefly about your gear. Obviously you had the different gear when you did the climb, but what wing, what harness, what other different things that maybe wouldn't be obvious, like the difference of the, what you had in Morocco and the Atlas versus what you had in the Himalaya?
Yeah. In Morocco, I had, I think you don't know this brand, Nervure. It's a French brand of paragliding. It's making. It's the last brand who make his paraglider in France. Okay. That's the last one. And for, for Pakistan, I had the advanced glider, Omega XL2. Antoine had Ozone glider because he's annual sponsored. So we keep his LMC6. And for harness, for us, the only harness who permit to transport all this stuff. Yeah. And maybe 10 days or more of food. It's the Colibri, Cortel Colibri, because the, the backpack is very large.
You can remove the back protection and the, the ass protection to put a sleeping bag, tent, water. You can, I don't know, maybe you can put inside maybe 80 liters of stuff. Hmm. Yeah. But for that, it's a very, very, very good harness and very robust too.
Yeah, they, they...
And yeah. And for alpinist material, we had the Petzl girder, very light ice axe and pulley. I don't know the name in English, pulley. Harness too. Harness for climbing. It was Petzl. Yeah. And for the rescue, we had two fishing luggages. Companion by Advance. Companion SQR light.
Okay, okay. That's a round?
Yeah, yeah. No, not a round. It's an hybrid between a square and round. Okay,
okay. But not a steerable. It's a very lightweight.
Yeah, it's 90, 70, 1970 grams. Okay. Up to 100 kilos.
Yeah, okay. Yeah, like an X-Alps reserve. When you think back now on the trip, obviously there was the ankle and Antoine getting sick, which is really scary, but and I know this is difficult. You did a very good job of this in the article. I know it's difficult in English, but can you tell us the high moment of the trip and the low moment of the trip?
Yeah, definitely. I think the low moment was on the spantic, on the distance where we sleep two first nights under the storm and with Antoine in a very bad situation. For me, it was very difficult because I asked myself always what is going to happen now if Antoine can't take off. What can I do? Can I... let him here, let him alone here to call rescue? Can I stay with him?
So for me, it was very difficult. It was the lowest point. And the better, the higher point, there is lots of very good moments, but the higher for me, it's when we flew above Trango Tours on Baltoro Glacier. Because before paragliding, I was an alpinist and a climber. So for me, Trango Tours, it's a legend.
it's a legend. It's an inaccessible mountain, very huge granite tower. And to fly over that, we just went in pulling the handle and terminating some ascendancy. It was crazy. It was so easy. It was incredible. And the broad peak too, but for me, the better moment was just Trango Tours.
And tell me about the flying, because it's, you know, I have often heard, I spent some time with John Sylvester, who's, you know, done a lot of flying in Pakistan, in the Himalaya. And you mentioned in your article that you frequently had climbs that were, you know, as strong as you can get in the world, really. I mean, we get 12 and 13 meter climbs here in Sun Valley on a really big summer day in the Rockies. That's quite unusual, but it sounded like that was pretty common. But was it scary flying? Or was it because I've heard that the flying can be quite soft. It's quite nice. I mean, strong thermals, but they're nice. Is that true?
Before the trip, Antoine said to me, you will see thermals are very strong, but very large and smooth. It's cool. And at the first flight, we see that's not the same as two years ago. The thermals are very strong, but not cool. A bit like in Swiss mountain, you know. Yeah, sharp. But it was not worse like Swiss. Maybe a bit strong, very strong thermals. The stronger I have never seen, but no, it was not dangerous. It was like in mountain, but in big mountain, so big thermals.
Every day, we flew in 10 meters by second. Every day. The first day, it's very impressive, but after two days, oh, it's normal. And when we turn in four meters by second, you said, okay, go away. It's
nothing. That's a bad climb.
The proportion of the mountains and thermals are the same. It's the same proportion, but all is bigger. So it's not when we see mountains, you can say, oh, it's like the Alps. It's the same valley. Mountains is not very high.
The proportions are equal, but in fact, all is very, very big. When we cross a valley, about 10 minutes, you look at your position, and you say, oh, I'm not in the middle of the valley yet. It's very long. But you saw that when we try to cross it. If you saw just the valley in a picture or just a look, you think it's a classic valley like in the Alps,
but it's very, very big. But it's the
Rhone times 10.
It's huge. Yeah, and for the 13 meters by second, this day was particular. I think after the trip, I think this day was the day of the year. It was really an amazing day. At 10 a.m., we fly over 6,000 meters at 10 a.m. Yeah, and the timeout became strong and strong and strong, 10, 12, and then 30 meters by second. And this day, we reached 7,000
90... Sorry, 990...
7,900.
Yeah. But above small mountain, not above 8,000 meters. We flew above 8,000 meters. 5,000 meters mountains. It was incredible. On this day, I think if we were on K2 area, it's sure we made maybe 8,400 or 500. It was very, very good day.
Matt Wilkes has done a lot of really interesting study on high altitude flying and what it does to your physiology and your mind. Obviously, with Antoine getting pulmonary cerebral edema, not pulmonary, but cerebral edema, at the very least, extreme altitude sickness, that was, I would imagine, most likely after the long rest down in the valley and because of the physical exertion of flying. But you guys didn't have the space or the capacity, obviously, to have oxygen. It's too heavy and you can't fill up every day.
How did you approach that? How did you deal with not having oxygen? Because also when you fly that high without oxygen, it's also very cold. Oxygen helps you stay warmer. I imagine the cold must have been fierce.
Yeah. So, sanitation was a big concern particularly on the first days of flight. So, for first days, we set us to not fly above 5,000 meters, maybe 5,500. And we spent two days at 4,000 meters in bivouac because the weather was not good. So, we tried to fly not very high. But our first flying day, the weather was very good on the first day. So, first thermal, we go up at 6,000
meters. And we say, oh, shit! It's too high! We can't
talk. It was too difficult to talk and we have to respire. And we have to do it in one word. So, the first day was very complicated. And we were very concentrated to our conscience and to our respiration. And after the first bivouac when Antoine broke his ankle, we slept at 4,500. The day after was a bit better and day and day. After maybe six or seven days, we flew to the over 7 000 meters without amplitude because we just go up in the thermal and and going down in the next transition so the time spent in over 6 000 meters was not very long it was okay
but spantic we we spent a very long time at this altitude and we we made a physical effort and uh i think our organism on on where we are we are not uh we are not uh training training training for that and uh it was very difficult uh very difficult more difficult than the flight at the same altitude when
you when you look back at it uh you know when you i mean it's just it's almost seems impossible to compare you know a in the atlas mountains which are big and beautiful amazing place i've done quite a bit of flying there too and and uh and the alps you know your home which is incredible um but then the scale like you spoke about in pakistan and the himalaya is so much bigger was it uh was it mostly just awesome and you know like wow i can't believe i'm here or was it a little was there quite a bit of fear too like my god if this is maybe maybe bigger than uh i mean did you feel confident uh going there and in the in the first days or was it just really scary uh
all the days after each flight i i thought uh wow it was a flight of my life and each day the next day i i thought the same the same thing because all the days it was more and more impressive and more of a huge mountains and a huge flight and i was like oh my god i'm so afraid but uh we were not not afraid uh when when the conditions were were good it was cool to fly here just you you have to keep in mind uh it's forbidden to to add an accident forbidden to land on the bottom of the valley on a glacier and you you try to keep high every every time but it's not not very afraid uh two days on the west of the the route uh near afghanistan we had a very strong west wind and uh yeah we we we flew two days with a afraid condition uh maybe if maybe uh 40 k kph uh west wind at 6 000 meters it was not good for flight but uh when the wind was not too strong it it was cool it was a very very nice to fly in this area if
you did if you did have an emergency um like let's say you know you you you you couldn't have flown off the span tick and and antoine is very sick um what what did you have to communicate what did you have an in reach or did you have a satellite phone or in reach okay we
had we had an in which uh two in which one one each uh so we we can send an sms to our family and on the spantic we we send regularly sms to my family because benoit sent us uh meteo provision the forecast but the meteor is very bad the forecasts are very bad in this country and uh when we when we leave for the spantic uh the forecast uh didn't uh didn't say the the bad weather come one one day later so it's very complicated to have a good forecast and the forecast is very complicated to have a good forecast and the we we flew every day uh when like that uh oh today it's it looks like it's good no yeah no no not too strong wind okay let's let's try and we'll see but uh yeah in which uh was only for rescue and for for me it was two for my my wife and my daughter my daughter was a six month um six months
older yeah oh my god so it was a bit complicated for my wife oh oh
i think she she's the real hero in this story damien
you know what i mean she she wow what what an amazing woman hats off to her that good for you that's that's incredible when you look when you look forward now uh you know i i went through this very interesting time after alaska because it was something that i planned for years you know i literally it was six years something that i i really wanted to do and i'd looked at and looked at all the maps and everything and and then you do it you know you and antoine you go there and you do it then you complete it um what was it like to be done and to come home and to you know to have that kind of it for me i don't know if you know this word it's like a void you know it's like uh uh you know for so long it's it's uh it's something you strive to do it's like the X-Alps you know you train and you train and you train and then you do the race and it's just amazing and then it's done and then and then it's done yeah
then done uh yes we we we didn't prepare this expedition like you for uh several years uh before and uh we made a a route but it's it it doesn't it was not a fixed route just uh you
hope it's like a yeah you hope it you hope it goes but it doesn't have to go
when the weather was not good on on the direction of how how route we take on the right of on the left uh if if the cloud uh looks better on the south of on the north uh it's magical to to say set us uh okay if i land here no problem i have food i have water uh if this mountain is better than this one i about so i go on this one we yeah we were open we are we were not fixed on one one objective uh one only objective uh and we we did some uh extra extra route uh uh when when the weather said us it's better on the north or on the south yeah the route was prepared
yeah but not uh not fixed right not uh i
understand yeah you you had an idea of what you wanted to do but you could you could do you could follow the weather you could you could the the weather would dictate what you would end up doing what about you know when you're done um when you've completed something you know when you've when you've had uh you know something that's so intense and so beautiful and you know hard and good flying and i'm sure you know you've developed a great friendship with antoine and there's a there's a bond there but then it's done and for me that's that when it's done it's always kind of difficult to maybe get back into the swing of life i
understand yeah uh it's true and for me when i'm coming back for me it was a mistake i think i um i spend only one week at home and i uh i leave immediately immediately for PWC competition in bulgaria and in turkey and it was too much i uh i i went to this competition because i i booked all the all the stuff for the flight ticket and the registration before so i was forced to to go but uh it was too much and it was not uh my mind was not in the competition where i was uh in in pakistan so i i i was not performant of this competition i live alone again my wife and my daughter it it was difficult for me and after i when i i think back to that i am i think it was a mistake to to do to participate to this to compete to this uh and uh uh yeah yeah the the
normal life and the well the transition was not uh easy and uh i think it was too too early to to fly with my race race wing and uh and to leave my family and um again and uh for the for my my job yeah it was different to to going back to my job my uh every days but um during two months uh we called uh every days with antoine for reading articles uh um to for uh for the pictures on the photoshop of lightroom for uh made made a good good pictures and then try to to think about a movie so
my mind was uh occupied by that and uh yeah the autumn is uh is passed quickly yeah
i'm sure i'm sure well damien i i uh want to be mindful of your time and just a great talk i'm imagining it all and i encourage all of you who are listening to i'll have the the links to the the three articles that damien wrote the pictures are just unbelievable just awesome photography you guys did a great job i
can share with you uh some uh clip movie short short clip of uh big term also flight about i don't know if you see ever see it yeah i know i saw a couple
of them and i i spent a lot of time on your facebook page and and looked at some of those that would be that would be terrific um so i'll i'll have i'll have all of that in the show notes yeah for for all the listeners to look at but one one final question damien uh what's next and
what's next i don't know um i would like at the beginning i would like to to participate to next exalp but it's not possible so for next year i think uh i want to to try to to do some uh more competition international competition PWC pw you see and uh i i don't play in any expedition for next year i think maybe some i can fly comp in europe uh and uh if i'm still motivated for night long we'll see for the next exalp in uh 2021 i don't know but uh for 1991 sorry 2019 uh only competitions damien
i thank you so much i really appreciate your time uh this was this was a blast and uh it took us a while to get the the right connection but we finally did so thank you so much and uh good luck to you and i i hope to see you uh soon and we'll i'm sure i'll see you at some pwcs maybe not this year because it's the next alps year but uh but but soon so uh but we'll talk soon thank
you giving i
hope you enjoyed that man that inspires me to uh do some bigger and better things uh very very cool story uh if you're getting something out of the cloud based mayhem there are many ways you can support it you can support it directly uh financially if you go to cloudbasedmayhem.com you'll find the links to do that as a one-time deal through paypal or uh you can set it and forget it through patreon uh on patreon.com forward slash cloud based mayhem again you'll find the links to that on the website we also accept crypto kind of a new thing which is kind of fun but uh through patreon you'll be rewarded for for contributing um your your own you only pay when we put out content so it's all on us and you've probably heard my spiels in the past we just are not funding this through sponsorship we're going direct because i feel like that's just a more authentic way to go and uh you'll hear some in some of the past episodes you'll hear why uh more about why i think that's the best way to do things but anyway but if you can't support us financially i totally understand uh and there are other ways you can do it you can give us a rating on itunes or stitcher or however you listen to your podcast however you get them uh you can blog about it on your own website you can share it on social media which is really big on facebook or twitter or instagram or however you like to get your social media you can talk about it on the way up to launch what this is all about is just spreading information and knowledge to try to help all of us be safer and better pilots and help our community so thanks for the love appreciate it happy holidays see you on the next show cheers