Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. I'm bringing this to you pretty much live from Argentina. I am down here in a place, a beautiful place called La Rioja for their nationals. We're kind of midweek, halfway through the comp, and I thought it'd be really fun. I've been getting a lot of questions lately about folks heading off to their first comps this winter down in Roldanillo and Mexico and stuff. And so I thought it'd be fun to put some really good comp pilots in a little group. Well, this is the first time we've done this little group talk about competition. So we talk about gaggle flying and starts and headspace and safety and wings and finding good lines and strategy and pretty much A to Z of comps. So I think you're going to really enjoy this.
My guests are from all over the world. Francisco Manteras, who has been on the last two worlds team for Argentina and a really, really good pilot, lives in the States right now. But he's doing super well here. I think he's in second or third right now overall. The Canadian, but originally from Belgium, J.P. Vandebegian. I don't think I'm saying his last name right, but J.P. or Robert. Great dude. Awesome pilot's been flying since 1998. Been in a lot of comps. And lastly, Taiwanese guy, but also living in the States, Chin Chin Huang. We call him Jimmy. He's also been flying comps for a long time.
So I just had sat these guys down and you'll hear some traffic noise in the back and you'll hear a lot of bugs. We're at this hotel. We're outside. Francisco was packing a reserve when we were doing this. So there's some noise. We are not in the studio, as you can tell with the noise behind me. But super fun talk. A lot of laughs. You're going to enjoy it. And before we get into it, one of the questions that was asked that I didn't get to on that last last ask me anything show was. One of our Patreon supporters asked if I could lay out like the perfect dream year, if I could go anywhere and to fly every month of the year, where would I go? And a little bit of thoughts behind that. So I put together a little list here. This is just if I had the year off and plenty of cash and I just wanted to fly my brains out.
And these are the places that I would certainly think about going. So month by month, January, which is actually what I'll be doing. This. This year is I'd go to Valle de Bravo. Pretty hard to beat Valle. The comp scene there is awesome. The flying there is totally reliable. The food's great. It's cheap. The pilots are awesome. And Miguel runs the best show on Earth in my mind. So that's that'd be where I would go and actually is where I'm going this January and February. Depends on what you'd want to focus on. But, you know, a great place to go is Roldanillo, Colombia for nice, soft thermals, great flying, great cloud flying. A lot of people have been down there. There's always lots of lots of comps there that time of year. I'm going to be down there actually this year for the British Nationals, which end, I think, with February, February 2nd.
But February is still a really good month. December, January, February are all really good months in Roldanillo. I'd also think about going to El Hierro and the Canaries to practice acro for that's super reliable and a really nice time to be there. You can also, of course, think about New Zealand, Australia. And those are good months to be down in either of those zones. March. I've been hearing really good things about Costa Rica, very reliable, flying sixty hundred K triangles every day, so that and that would certainly be on my list. I've never flown down in Costa Rica. That'd be pretty fun. Or you can head down to Brazil and do like Baixa Guandu or any of the number of amazing sites they've got in that huge country. March can be a really good time down there. They often have comps that time of year down there as well.
April, I would go to beer in India right now is the time to be there. And beer India in the fall for total reliability. But April is the time for the really big flights. So there's a lot more down days, still a lot more weather than there is in the fall. But that's when you get a lot more instability. It's a lot colder and get but you can get way tall and push it way back into the deep Himalaya there that that would be that would be pretty fun. That's been on my list for a long time. I've flown beer a couple of times, but always in the fall, which is a much narrower season, but very reliable. And that's happening right now. Those of you who are watching X content. Yes, you're seeing flights from there every day. That kind of starts early October and goes through about the 10th of November. Typically, April, I'd also think about the Alps, some of the lower sites in the Alps, the higher sites are still too snowy.
But places like Annecy and La Rania and the Maritime Alps down south can be really good in April. The last few years, they've had big flights for like two or three days in a row. But then, you know, there's also a lot of downtime. But I really like spring flying. And it's a lot of time in Europe and it doesn't tend to be great where I live in Sun Valley. But another place you can think about going is like the Sierras start getting pretty good in April and out in California in May. Again, the Alps, I have been completely shut down in May and I've had some of the best flights of my life in May. So pretty hit and miss on the weather. The Sierras are pretty reliably producing that time of year. They can also be pretty bad.
May is kind of tough, you know, around the world. It's the monsoon season. So May is tricky. But that can be a fantastic time to hit the Sierras. And then as we move into June, but also May, you know, that's when I did the Alaska Traverse, I would go back to Alaska in a heartbeat. That's the time to be there, any really northern areas. So Norway, Sweden, Scotland, those are the months, those are the months, May and June to be in any of those places. And, you know, for me. Scotland or Alaska, pretty hard to beat. July, I'd be smack dab home in Sun Valley. I used to, I used to would have said, I used to have said probably August in Sun Valley, but these days in the West, in the U.S., it's just the fire season's vicious.
It's getting us every year. It used to be like every 10 years, you know, say what you will about climate change, but it's hammering us. And so it's pretty unbreathable often in August at home these days. So July. July is when I had the big flight a bunch of years ago. That tends to be when we get our our biggest air. And so, you know, you have a lot of down days, but pretty much anywhere in the Rockies, July is a pretty magical month. And the other one I'd consider to be the caucuses between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea across Mount Erebus, highest mountain in Europe. And that whole range has been very intriguing for a long time. There's some political stuff going on there and some things are maybe not totally safe. So, you know, it's kind of the big thing, but I would say, you know, from that side, from that standpoint, but that would be certainly a place I would take a look at in August.
I'd be up in Canada, up in Pemberton or Golden. There's been some amazing flights going down up there last couple of years. August is getting late. Certainly by the end of the month, you're not getting long flights, starts to get pretty stable, but terrific time to be up there. Again, if the fires aren't too bad. The other place I would certainly consider is Mongolia. Pakistan. stand, uh, those would be a couple places that would be pretty magical that time, that time of year. September, I kind of struggled with this one. September is an amazing month at home, but uh, the big flights have been that they've seen these uh things really dry out in the over the uh, the Wyoming flats. Uh, Bill Belcourt and Cody Mittanck and Chris Galley and all those guys that are based out of uh, Salt Lake have been doing huge flights from a couple different sites, one Porcupine and another lab.
They fly right down a freeway, so it's pretty tame. Uh, you can fly in a lot of wind there and they do some huge distance. If they could make that work in July, uh, they would go a really, really,really long way, but typically it just ods every day um through about end August. So September is proving a really nice stomping ground to hit and hit some big downwinders there um and not October, like I said earlier. Uh, Beer India is pretty hard to beat. You fly almost every day um, fantastic triangles there and just food. I mean, the whole scene there's terrific. Um, the other one I'd consider, of course, is the Sirtal Brazil, which I did last year. Uh, Kisha does the most widely known place, but now they're doing these great toes from Keiko and uh, Patu, and there's a bunch of sites, but that's of course where the current world record stands um from Tasima, which is a really tough place to make a flight from uh, and uh, Patu, and there's a bunch of sites, but that's of course great work.
Uh, hats off to those guys to to make that work, but um, that's a lots of big patience game. You're gonna be waiting around a lot to fly out of Tasima, but uh, more reliably, you go to Kushida or go to Patu or one of the other sites that's further inland and uh, test your your heavy wind skills and flying over some pretty, pretty rock and terrain. Uh, November, Chile or Argentina. Now that I'm down in Argentina for this comp, this place is super cool. I've heard great things as well about Chile. They've got their nationals are next month in November in Santiago. I've heard great things. That, so I would put those on the list. And then, uh, December, yeah, I mean New Zealand, Australia, you can do the flatland thing over Deniliquin, and in the towing, that is really hot and a lot of flies, uh, but they do huge distances there.
Also, a really nice time when the flats aren't working, you can head up into Bright and do some cool mountain flying or hill flying, really for Australia, but, uh, and then, uh, I would put those on the list. And then, uh, December, yeah, I mean New Zealand, Australia, a couple of—I guess it was two years ago now—I went down and did a race in Zapotec, which is outside of Guadalajara in Mexico, which is really cool, surrounded by big volcanoes, and they're gonna have a PWC there this year. So, uh, if you're, you know, you're done by a lot, you're looking for a new place in Mexico, that would be, uh, top of the list. So there you go, 12 months of, uh, that'd be a pretty epic year if you could pull all those off, or even just a few. So those are my recommendations. There are many, many more wonderful places to fly, but those are the ones that came to the top of my mind, uh, immediately. And, uh, let's get into it.
Here's the show, and please enjoy this, this talk with some really good comp pilots, uh, live here in Argentina. Apologize for the sound, but it's what it is. Enjoy, hey?
Hey guys, uh, thanks for joining me here. We're all in Argentina, and I'll do a whole pre thing before this, so we're just gonna get right into it. But, uh, why don't you just give
us a brief kind of comp history, and that'll give the audience, uh, a little bit of know-how about who you are and your various accents, okay?
So my accent is typically French, probably, but in in reality, it's a bit Belgian. So my name is Robert Van En Begin. I come from Belgium. I'm flying now for Canada because that's where I live. So I've been flying comps for a very, very long time. I think my first comp was '98 or something by the time we took pictures, but I was quite, uh, not really, uh, I was at it, so I stopped competing and I went back. So, uh, I won two times the Belgian championship, and this year I am the Canadian champion. So it's quite, uh, quite funny for me to be champion of two countries, uh, and I'm, I'm into, uh, some PWC sometimes, but not that much. I have quite a lot of work, so it's a bit, uh, difficult for me to to manage everything and be able to compete a lot.
And so from year to year, it depends.
You've been in Quebec how long now?
It's been three year and a half now, and the flying is good there. Yeah, flying is super nice—a few days a year only—but, but it's nice when it flies nice. It's nice. And what's JP? JP stands for, uh, Jean-Pierre and Robert. But, uh, my, uh, you know, my, my name is Robert, okay?
but we go by
JP, JP is okay. Yeah, okay, like it, uh, I'm used to
That too, so no worries. Well, my name is Jimmy, uh, my real name is actually... I'm originally made in Taiwan and recently exported to the U.S. about 30 years ago. So I raced kind of on and off; I was racing really seriously from 2009 to 2012, had a serious accident, so I kind of stopped for five years. So now I'm just kind of coming back to the racing scene since like 2016 and stuff like that. So I do this more recreationally; I'm not as accomplished as Robert here, but just trying to play the game and learn the sport and having fun. So it's good to have you back. Thank you. Hi,
There, my name is Francisco. I'm from Argentina and, uh, I've been flying for a long time, but, uh, competing not for so long, although my first competition was in 2003 and then the second maybe was in 2007 or so. And then I got really into it about 2011, I think, when I bought my first, uh, comp wing I could say, and, uh, since then I've been really engaged and I enjoy it.
And you've, uh, tell us about your world's experience. Was you've been on the world's team for Argentina, yeah?
Actually, I competed the world's, uh, two times already with the team. I've been in the team since then, that was 2015, the first world I did, and then the second one in Italy in 2017, and it was a great experience. And I'm here in Argentina now, competing the national championship to try to stay in the in the team, as I need to be ranked within the first four of the country, yeah.
Cool, and and do you call Argentina still home, or is the U.S. home, you?
know what, uh, both are home, I guess, because I work in in the states and I spend a lot of time, but of course my home original, it's in Argentina, and I think my heart is in Argentina, I should say, yeah.
Cool, he's been cooking us up some, uh, insane barbecue. I have to redo my house now to make a proper Argentinian barbecue. It's been amazing food, thank you. I'm glad.
You like it? It's my pleasure, so...
Let's just stick with you, uh, Francisco. Um, I wanted to get into—we get a lot of questions about people that are just getting into comps, and if you could kind of rewind the clock and, you know, and share with us a little bit about what you've learned. Um, let's talk about before you launch, you know, like gear, headspace, you know, I always talk about, and it's not my thing, and Nate Scales always says, "No, there's—you know, we had a friend of ours forget his instruments today." Like, that's the kind of stuff that, uh, I'm looking for here. Like, what are the things that you've learned to be relaxed or kind of get into that right frame of mind? Well,
I used to actually even write notes for myself that I should read even a few days before starting a comp, and those notes were like, "Stay away from the from the party gang, you know? Stay away from from drinking, stay away from staying up late."
I don't seem to succeed, but but that's the idea, but that's the idea at least. And I was serious about it a few years ago; now I'm starting to relax a little bit more, I guess, too, because I learned better and I have more experience. So I guess I don't commit so many mistakes as I used to. Those mistakes, I've been erasing mistakes by, you know, maybe writing these notes. So I used to need to read them every time.
I was writing these notes; I used to need to read them every time I was writing.
them every time now. I, I think I assimilated them, so and
Do you have any kind of like, um, set routines, you know, that you do every time no matter what? Like, do you do, you like to launch early, late? Do you do, you have any kind of set routines with your gear charging, instruments, you know, just well?
Yeah, I have my own routines of charging and controlling my equipment before, um, I can't really remember exactly right now all the routine because it's already so assimilated that I just do it.
But
then in terms of taking off early or late. Wait for whatever, I just adapt to the day. If I see that the day is going to be strong and and fast to to go up, I guess I'd take off only, not not I wouldn't say minutes, but maybe half an hour before the start. That supposedly gives me enough time, enough enough time to be at the top. But some days are super slow or launch is complicated. So those days I try to launch earlier. So I just adapt to each day.
For me, I kind of a system, you know, I kind of do the same thing every time. I buckle in the same way, so I don't forget something, and then right before I take off, I tend to kind of pat myself, make sure my horn is on correctly. I always grab my reserve handles three times on both sides, just to know where it is, a little muscle memory thing. Just make sure instruments on everything's ready, because once you're in air, you don't want to kind of make these little mistakes, you know, something you could have solved on the ground. It's one less thing to worry about, that's kind of my system, uh
Yeah, I have different routines and, uh, I can, uh, well, about take off first, uh, usually when I go to a country I never visited, uh, I would take off quite early because I'd like to learn the day, you know, as it goes. So to take off early is good, good thing certainly. As you enter the competition, it's good to be able to understand how the air will evolve during the day. That's one point. Another thing is, I listen to music, so I have two different songs: one song for sleep and one song for, uh, to concentrate, just to focus, uh, before the start or before the takeoff. So I would, uh, probably get out of the group, uh, listen to some music, my, my song, just to switch my mind to, to the competition and then, uh, I'm ready to go.
Identify that song? Is it the same song all the time, uh?
It's always the same, and it's a song I use when I'm running, and it's a song that has different beats and, uh, some powerful beat for sprints, and I like, you know, adrenaline and sprints, and so that's—that's how the flow comes, okay?
Yeah, you just brought up something. How do you guys approach, um, fitness with flying, with, with, uh, either competitions or just XC flying? Is it, is it something you think about? Is it important? Is it, it is
It is more and more important, I think, today. Uh, in the past, uh, for me, the most important was to be able to, to stand long flights. Uh, now I'm okay with that. Of course, you need to take care of yourself, so drinking, eating, and stuff like that. But still, now I need to prepare myself before going to the camp, so I do some gym and workouts, and yeah, stuff like that. As I say, the food is also important. Uh, so when you come to a new country, uh, maybe switching from one food to the other can be problematic, so you have to make it quite, uh, slowly and adapt yourself. So I always come with my food also from, from home, and try to have always the same kind of, uh, of eating.
So I eat rice most of the days, or something
real simple, yeah, simple, basic, you
know it's not gonna
make you sick and exactly, okay? Yeah, oh, interesting. I'm gonna start the
conversation with you, and then we'll see you next time.
This next question, off with a story. I was just over in Macedonia for the Nordic Opens, and you guys probably saw all the really tragic news and the British Opens, uh, the British Nationals, I think it was. The last day, they had a mid-air collision and both the pilots died. Quite unusual, um, one was a very experienced pilot, uh, and the other was actually not in the competition, um, but was free flying and, and you know, obviously they got screwed up in the air and, um, so super sad. Um, but it was, it was quite interesting. The very, the next comp was being run by the same organizer, Goron, who you all know, and, uh, and he made a comment that I thought was, was, was really interesting. That the, the accidents these days, like, you know, back in the Peter, he today's in the two line of the initial two liners with the R11 and the R10 and stuff, it was like, you know, we were all just hanging on waiting for the blow up, and you just don't see these gliders blowing up anymore.
Like the, the places for accidents, uh, you know, especially in a comp like the one we're in here in Argentina, where it's not a PWC, everybody's not on two liners, there's a lot of B's, there's a lot of C's, you know, the turning circumference is different, um, the knowledge is different, the ability level is different, and he was just ramming like, you know, hey, the dangerous thing here is the gaggles, you know, it's, it's, it's at the start and everybody's together, it's like the most dangerous time in the race and I kind of found some new appreciation for that, so I want to ask you guys about how to gaggle fly, but also, you know, what do you think about that? And, and what do you think about, you know, the the risk of gaggle flying, and do you for me?
That's not the biggest risk, I think, when I fly, depending on the gaggle, of course, but most of the gaggle I play with or fly with are totally okay. Uh, it depends on the day, so I've been in some gaggles in PWC in France where the gaggle was each individual flying by itself away from each other, and uh, so yeah, it depends on the day for sure. But I think flying mountains and, you know, lee side stuff are still maybe more, uh, more—well, I would say more dangerous for me, I think, uh, because, uh, pushing the bar on the, uh, you know, on the lee sides and stuff like that, we still see pilot doing it, and it's a bit weird.
um yeah
Yeah, and maybe, maybe I should rephrase that. He wasn't—he wasn't saying it was more dangerous, for sure, but that was just a risk that maybe some people were underappreciating. And and and was really, I think, what what what caught me was that, uh, you know, I I've really backed off my aggression in in in gaggles, especially at the start, because I—there's no point. It doesn't really seem like, you know, that there's not really any point in like really tightening, you know, turning tighter than
you know and
everybody else, because at the start, it's the start, you know? It's, yeah.
But the point is, there is only one place where you want to be is the at the correct, uh, place and the highest. So still, the fight is already on, I think, uh, but you're right. So we have to be aware, and I agree with you, but it's the same for when we are flying, uh, little groups, uh, whether in the flats or on the mountains. I mean, there's no point to risk lives of each other, uh, by a collision or
something like that
or pushing someone outside of the terminal. The the funny thing is about paragliding is one of the sport that you have where you have to cooperate with your competitors. In many other sports, you fight with them, and here you need them, so just take care of them. Yeah, yeah.
Well, let's... okay, so before we get into gaggle flying, um, let's talk about starts. How do you get a good start? What are you thinking about, you know, how are you trying to maneuver? Um, because the start is super important. It's been really important here, and and they're so fun. I love stars, yeah.
I think it's, it's really about timing and kind of going back a little bit about gaggle flying a little bit, kind of before we move on to the start. For me, like, it's almost like you have to share the space, and sometimes when you fly with your friends enough, you kind of have a relationship with them. You kind of wave them over, you kind of briefly talk to them, or like gesture, or just do a little head nod or something like that to kind of like indicate, or just look at them to let them know you see them, and so they're aware. And that's what happens, you know, usually in a tight situation. Let's say if you have a slow day, like Australia this year in PWC at the Bright, you know, the takeoff was, there was really weak condition. There's only really one or two house thermal, and you have the entire 150 guys and girls, you know, just circling as high as it can, and with free flowers flying through the the gaggle is pretty crazy, but at the same time it works out, you know, it's great.
But that's, that's where the fun is, you know, that's fun, the sport. You know, your eyes open and you know you're just doing it For me, timing-wise, I just try to just relax, just get to the top, and I think with time and experience, you're gonna kind of figure away how to kind of position yourself in the right place, and I think that's kind of where the magic, the flying, is for me.
Yeah, I would add something is that, uh, maybe for me at least, the last 15 minutes is some very, are some very important minutes for me. I need to be already at the position there. Uh, it's no way that the last 15 minutes I should be moving from one place to the other or whatever. So you've kind of set your, yeah, this is where I'm
gonna be, I'm gonna make this work.
Yeah, so when I take off, uh, my my first aim or objective is to really understand where it will, well, the start will happen and how. And it was interesting, two days before, or yesterday, I don't remember, that we were drifting with the wind, so there was a tempo, and you do it one, two times, and then you know how long it takes to to drift with the thermal and
And by the time you have to learn it and to understand how it goes to be just there at the right moment, at the right place, so it's important.
Yeah, let's talk about this. You know how, in all these years you've been flying, Francisco, you know how have you learned to climb better, be at the top, be in the right position for a start? Well,
Uh, back to the gaggle and and start, uh, I would say the start is the biggest gaggle of the race. So, first of all, in terms of security and safety, uh, you need to recognize whoever is around you. So, sometimes, uh, I've been in, uh, like in Superfinal goggles, start goggles, or any goggle actually, because it's Superfinal and the worlds are super tight and big goggles, uh, sometimes it's super aggressive, but you know who you, who you have around, and those are so professional pilots that you're not afraid of them at all. But sometimes in a comp like, like this one, uh, where you have, uh, different levels, then you really need to recognize who's around you. And then you need to be more aware or less aware depending on your surrounding, and, uh, in terms of me positioning at the top, I don't know what I do.
I just, um, you know, I observation for me is, is a big thing. Flying goggle, when you're out of the goggle, you're flying on your own. It's all about feeling, but when you're flying the goggle, it's observation, and the minute you miss something, you lose a few spots, a few meters,
for sure. I think you hit on the thing I was looking for. Here is that, I... I think I find that the best pilots are, I always think about like Josh Cohn with the swivel head, he sees everything. He's got like 10 eyes, you know? And I think that the... the lower hours pilots are really locked into what's here, and the better pilots are—and sorry, the audience can't see what I'm doing, I'm talking like tunnel vision versus, you know, looking at really swirling around and seeing everything, because it's all those things.
that are really important to me, and yeah, and yeah.
it's the population a lot more. Do you think, uh, yeah, if—if for some reason, which is the push, there's no push, there's no, you know, you don't as much area. If you're a beginner, you have racing. I mean, if you're going for like a second, whether you get that advantage or you get a second, he's just you get better posture, and then you use that, you make that feel like you're, you figure out what's, what's the answer to it, then you know afterwards you just try to work with that gaggle and I, I don't, I don't know that there's just a... well, here's the answer, but I'd like to hear your answer. It seems like it's just hours and practice, but yeah...
Yeah, you're saying it is practice, but um, I guess, uh, there's two ways of approaching and and catching up with the front gaggle, maybe not the lead gaggle, but at least the front gaggle. The gaggle you have in front of you is one is under, the other one is pretty much the same altitude, and the other one is above. The safer one is always above, and hopefully will be the best one and faster too, because normally the thermal as you go higher, sometimes it gets better, and then flying a higher altitude normally is faster, so it's the best way for me. But sometimes there's no other way than just pushing low and counting on luck to try to get the thermal before the big gaggle. Maybe you're low, but you catch it before, and hopefully you catch up.
So it also, it always depends on the day and the way it's working in my set of rules of my little notebook. Um, I have different, see, I put, I say, if the day is low is slow, always catch up, uh, from above; but if the day is strong, maybe you can catch up from under. So it really depends on the day, you have to adjust, yeah.
Um, the, uh, this was one of the kind of breakthroughs I had at one point was, you know, when we're first learning, we're told you top out every climb. Talk about how that really does not apply in racing, yeah?
Sometime when you actually top off, I mean, depending on what type of glide you're flying, um, you top off, you actually spend too much time climbing because as the thermal reaches the top, it actually peters out a little bit. Um, there's also another thing when, when the thermal, as you flow out, you know, you kind of go through the falls, and that could actually take all that time you spent topping off, and you just wasted falling out outside of the thermals on either side of it, so you
Have something to say.
there jp yeah
Yeah, uh, also what matters is the the the lift. If the lift is very strong, maybe it's best to stay in it, not to leave it. Uh, usually it works like that, that uh, even the leaders, they are pushing a bit and they're leaving too early some terminals, and then you simply stay in and you catch up easily. So it really depends on the conditions, I guess. Um, I wanted to say also that you maybe sometimes you don't have to stay with the gaggle. I would recommend to stay as much as you can, but even today I had a strange experience when I I changed the route, so the the lead gaggle were on the mountains, I crossed the flats and I was way above everybody and I I reached, I I managed to reach uh and uh get in touch with the lead gaggle, but I was above them, so I could top them, stay on the same thermal with them, and then it was uh kind of easy and relaxing.
Yeah, I
Good idea. Don't be a lemming, I think, for sure, right? Yeah, you know, don't, don't distrust your good ideas because you can't have them. I think there's, it's easy to get locked into the gaggle mentality, but sometimes you can have a good idea like you did today and it really works out. I think the, um, the other thing about gaggle flying, it seems like is, is, uh, you know, if there's, if it's a big gaggle and you're, you're at the bottom of it and everybody goes, you know, taking that time to climb to where they were is pointless because if everybody's out in front of you, you can
See who's getting the lift, and you know, by the end of that next glide, you're gonna have caught up, you know that? I think often you don't really need to top it out if you're at the bottom of the gaggle, yeah, but
being at the bottom, I think the, well, you have to be really mentally strong to be at the bottom and it works. So, uh, at some points I remember a competition I was in, Pedro Bernardo, everybody was staying at a mountain, nobody wanted to go to the next waypoint on the flat because
Of course, it took me a bit of time to find the waypoint, the lift, sorry. And when I caught it, everybody came; they were above me, of course, because I lost a lot of altitude to find this. I literally saw the whole camp passing above me, so I said, "Okay, I'm not grounded yet," so the task is on, and I won the task at the end. So yeah, it was amazing. So it's possible, it's always possible. You never know what will happen, uh, in the next, uh, next moves I
Really agree with, um, what you're saying there, because you never know. There's just so many variables out there, and there's so many different factors that affect the day. I mean, the league might be a little, you know, tactical, kind of calculating where they're going to go, seeing who's around them, and kind of keeping their place. And maybe they will let some people go, let them sniff out the thermals, and while they kind of keep their, you know, competitors more at bay, you know, they might let other guys just go ahead and just kind of sniff things out. You know, that's kind of another play you could do, just kind of use the every pilots out there to kind of gauge, you know, how the day is and stuff like that. Well,
The only thing I have to say about that is, uh, there's two different animals in this—in this sport—the comp of the the PWC and the professional, where, uh, if you leave the gaggle, for sure they're going to win against you; you'll never beat the gaggle. But in this kind of small comps, sometimes the single moves are, uh, really, they really pay off, like the move the rover did today. Uh, we were, we were doing some kind of, uh, gaggle flying and all of a sudden he showed up in the valley higher than everyone, so that was a single move and it worked. That in PWC most likely won't work, so there's two different things there that you have to recognize.
Let's jump to that then. So, talk about what you shouldn't do. What are the things that you learned all these years that like, okay, I didn't need to like me the first day? You know, I, I, I made a break too early. I do it all the time. Uh, in a great position, was in a really good spot to, to, to win the race, and I broke too early and I didn't stay with you guys. I didn't stay with the gaggle and it's, it's a let, it's like Russ Ogden calls it discipline. Well,
I think you're talking about my huge mistake. No, I'm talking about me. Oh, you did? Okay, I did it today. Okay, I was leading the whole comp pretty much today, and at the end I was, uh, so this mental aggressive mode that I kept pushing, well, when I was actually the highest and I could just take above everyone to go to, to hit the last turn point and make it go first, and instead I was so pushy today that I just left the goggle on my own again, once again, and, uh, thinking that I was doing good, and the goggle behind really went up so high that, uh, above, yeah, they got me so, so globally. That's lack of discipline. Is that what you're saying?
Absolutely, because if you find yourself on top of everyone, why was, what's the rush leaving that place? You know, just stay there, check it out, breathe, you know, relax for a moment, say what's my position, what's next, how far I'm from goal, and should I leave or stay? And then you make your decision. No, today I just didn't think at all, I just pushed. Big mistake. I
Think, I think Gavin was trying to, uh, kind of refer to the situation, and me and him got into the first day of the comp. We were like super psyched and just went out and charged ahead and got super low, and kind of vice versa today. While me and Francisco's on the front, he's waving at me to go, and I kind of left him and kind of went to the flats by himself, so he's kind of getting back at me a little bit for that. But, you know, as we said before, the day varies so much, you never know what's going to happen. I mean, every move counts. I think the best thing to do, just kind of be aware of the situation around you, the people around you, the best you can. I think for me personally, just flying comp is really just like challenging yourself, because pilots—every pilot has a different level, especially at this comp. There's beginner pilots, there's, you know, there's world-class pilots here, etc., etc.
Um, but I think if you just compete with yourself and just try your best and learn from your mistake, I think that's probably the best way for me to kind of approach the situation and
You had a really good, um, you know, a lesson that we all need to be reminded of. Yesterday, uh, you came in a little bit lower. I got out in a dust devil and you were like, "Yeah, I don't, I don't need to do that." So...
I'm kind of a little get a little background with the situation, so basically we just tagged last turn for him. We're going to the end of speed and, um, while we're going to end of speed, I see this giant dust devil and I see, I just, I have a big smile on my face right now because I see Gavin just charging for the same, uh, dust devil too. This seems just humongous. It's like probably like, I would say, "What do you think, Gavin?" Like, it was big, it was big, it was gnarly, it was just trash everywhere and we're just both getting pulled into it, but Gavin's a little higher. He's, he was actually playing with, uh, the dust devil. He's already kind of getting a little lift while I'm approaching it low and we're over like a housing development with power lines. Not many places land. The brushes here looks like they're really low, but they're probably three or four feet tall.
So while, you know, while both of us approaching this dust devil, I just see Gavin's kind of doing the thing. Next thing I see, I see his wing just goes disappears. He's going up the thermal sideways. You know, I'm like, "Is this, is this, is this a good thing to do right now? Is this a smart thing to do?" And, you know, for me, I have a new baby, you know, I have a new family. So I, when my direction approach was, there's a power line around to me, I just decided, just, "Hey, it's better to fly tomorrow than, you know, spend the time at the hospital and just, you know, laugh it out, you know?" But Gavin took the thermal by its, by the horn and made it a goal and while I was
Kicking, learn my lesson. No, it's okay, I'm okay with it. You know, I get to fly another day, and that's really what's really all about, yeah.
In my, in my defense, audience, I was quite a bit higher. I think it would have been pretty scary for you to go in that thing finding good lines like this. Is, uh, this is like a science that I find impossible to teach, but I, I would like to get your thoughts on it because it's everything, isn't it? I mean, I, I find that most people can climb pretty well with enough hours, you know, but it's finding those good lines. It's gliding, that is, uh, is that really ultimate?
Feeling, yeah, uh, it's really tough to teach to learn, uh, yeah, it's, but flying comps is a good, uh, it's a good school for that because you see all those lines, especially here. I think pilot were very disciplined that we spread, we don't stick together, and everybody spreads, and so you can see the different lines, and it's, it's really interesting. Well, we're develop
That more, because some, some of the listeners might not know what you're talking about, because that, that's important. Yeah,
So we were in the lead gaggle, and instead of having all pilots in one file, uh, one after each other, we were all flying on up front, all together, uh, and so we, we cover a large area of, uh, of ground like a
flock of birds, like birds, like, yeah, like gooses, and then, uh
And then, uh, there you can see the difference in the glider floating a bit better, you being in a less, less, uh, favorable area. And then you, of course, you have to react. If you don't react, you, you stick to that and you go down and down and down. So you have to change your, uh, your line when it's, uh, appropriate. Keep the line when it's good. Uh, when we're talking about lines, we're talking about convergence also, so it's good to understand what's a convergence and how to stay on it. Um, sometimes it's not necessary to stay
on it but
You turn, you just have to go straight and then you climb, climb, climb, climb. Uh, we've had that like in Piedrata, or there are some known places for that where you, you just literally can fly. I don't like 10k straight, yeah? And you go up, up, up, up. It's amazing. Uh, but if you're on the wrong side of the convergence, then you go down, down, down, down. So that's the problem. So flying lines is, yeah, mainly practice, practice, practice, practice, and trying to understand. So first thing is, of course, to be aware that there are lines. Uh, most of pilots don't even know that, and once you know, you have to look at birds, look at other pilots, and try to understand what's happening with the air and, and feel it.
Uh, one thing is also flying with B helps a lot because when you're flying with the brake lines, you don't feel the air as well as when you're flying with bees, and then you can have some micro information that will eventually lead you to the best, uh, the
best line, so so let's drill down a little bit in technique there. What, what are you doing? How much pressure do you have in your hands? What are you doing with your feet on your speed bar? What are you, what's ideally, well...
Yeah, I would say that, uh, for example, when you were on, uh, end of speed, uh, really pushing, and for the final glide, uh, it does matter much less. Uh, it's more in the course when you're, uh, so if you're full bar, you don't feel that much most of the time, so you should probably release a bit the bar, and it's, it's working quite a lot. So instead of pushing like mad trying to find the next thermal, uh, there are pilots, uh, who are flying slower, but, uh, they just float in the air much better. So at the end of the, of the transition, you arrive even sometimes higher than the other. Uh, I had a race in, well, it was a cross country, uh, flight with a delta, so a hang-like glider, and it was amazing because the guy was pushing hard and I was, uh, trying to stick to the lines and he was way in front of me but super low.
So at the end, I arrived and we, we met again, and so that's how I could catch up with him instead of pushing with him, and it would be a nonsense, huh? That's interesting. Yeah, very cool. It was funny, funny, and interesting indeed. jimmy
Yeah, for me, um, I'm kind of impatient, so I kind of want to get to point at a point B as fast as I can, and we just smash bar, like, what, um, Robert says, it's something you don't feel anything, and sometimes you actually might fly through quite a bit of thermals, like, for, for example, like the Chelan, the last task where we were sneaking high, and then we thought we could make it the goal, but because we're so like into winning and just kind of making the task, that we flew through like five thermals, and we all of us dirted, you know, instead of we could just slow down a little bit, just took a few turns, we would have made it. We were like short by 100 meter, I mean, it's crazy, but that's where racing comes in, that kind of each of the, well, like Francisco says, discipline, you know, you gotta have discipline and stuff like that. For me, personally, I, I tend to hold on to the beast quite heavily, and I discover that for me, sometimes I do kind of put most of my weight on it, but right now I try to relax and just kind of pull back, like a, like a bow and arrow type of scenario, and to me that, for me, that, that works out for me.
Um, speed bar wise, my feet is kind of like a sewing machine, it's constantly moving, adjusting the pitch of the machine, and I'm really passionate about the glider. Um, when you get a hard hit, you know, you kind of want to release the bar really quick, but when I first started, I would release, and that would actually make the glider pitch up and slow down, and then we step on speed bar again, you kind of lose all that momentum, and you kind of use all the potential energy you saved to gain that speed again. So now I'm really good at just, once I hit a bump, I let go and push it right back, and sometimes that's actually kind of reaffirming to just like push on that bar and feeling that there's a lot of pressure or at the front edge of the wing, for me, that's comforting. That's like, oh, there's still air in front of me, and things are good, and
Jimmy, how did—how did you learn how to do that? Has that just been flying in comps and practicing it, or are you actually even going out on like sledder days when it's really mellow and doing a bunch of pendulum flying? And, you know, is there because it's quite—it's intuitive after a long time. Yeah, it's not very intuitive in the beginning. We hit a thermal when we come off our speed bars, the dead wrong thing to do. Yeah,
Um, for me, I actually don't have a lot of time on my days off. I work, and I'm a full-time daddy daycare, so I only fly comps, and that's just kind of where I learned. And I think just kind of over time, I discovered that you just have to trust your glider. I mean, your glider today's gliders are so strong nowadays and so solid, you just have to kind of test it. You know, for, for, for a long time, I would literally just don't step on bar, and I was like, "Why am I coming in these races and then finishing so slow?" And I discovered the speed bar, like, wow, that's an amazing tool, man. So as I kept pushing, just pushing, lemon, challenging myself, challenging the glider, and knowing the limits of the glider, you kind of get a feel what it can handle, what it can't handle, and that's kind of how I discovered it. And um, it works for me. Francisco, you have anything to add to that, uh?
Well, what I can say is, uh, there's two different ways of flying. It's one is trying to stay high and finding amazing lines and stuff, and the other one is, um, you know, chasing goggles and pushing the bar. And the way I do it is, uh, when it's a day is strong, so again, it's and defining what kind of day you're flying. When I see that the day is strong, normally I go from A to B as fast as possible and just try to hit the the next thermal and go up as fast as I can. But if the day is soft and and not working so great, maybe I don't push that much bar, and actually my bar is super, you know, my my feet are super sensitive and releasing and pushing just to keep my glider
12 o'clock right above my head, trying not to pitch up and down and stuff like that. That's the most important in a shitty day, let's call it, or a soft day. But um, again, you know, in a strong day, maybe my technique is to hold on to those, those pieces of wood on the, on the B risers and, uh, push hard on the, on my feet and, uh, whatever happens to the glider, just manage it with my, with my hands and not with my feet. Sometimes it's the opposites, you know, when, when I'm trying to gain, uh, better lines, maybe I play more with my feet. But when I try to just go fast and keep the glider above, I use more my hands and I find it that it really works with, uh, with the B risers.
You can really pull them and you can be, maybe, full bar on, like today, approaching to goal, I didn't release bar ever since the last thermal and, uh, in my glider sometimes was searching really bad and, you know, how bumpy the air was today, right and
I'm trying to gain better lines.
and uh, I just hold on to those, those B risers and controlled it only with the B risers; otherwise, I would not catch up. And that way, I was able to gain a couple of spots in there and to go, yeah, you
Guys, talk about instruments a little bit. Are you using sticking with speed bar and with speed and glide and climbing and everything, but are you using mccready? Are you using polar curves? Are you, you know, how much are you looking versus how much feel?
I don't, I don't use the instrument as I could probably, because those instruments are amazing, but I use my feelings and I look at the the glide ratio and the the speed of going down or up and stuff like that, and then try to come up with my my best glide. Like that, it's not that I really understand my instrument, I have to say. I don't understand it as I as I wish to, you know, some people, maybe at Josh Kahn or some of these guys that are really good at gliding and climbing, and maybe they do better understanding them and they get more out of them, for sure. Yeah,
I'm not really instrument guy either, you know. I was just recently in Australia and one of the pilots, Garrett there, was making fun of my dinosaur instruments that I was using. So again, which
Are, go ahead and tell the audience, old school Garmin.
and then a 60 30 flight tech, but for me personally, I just, I actually only look at two things: I look at a glide ratio. So my glider, I know it flies around average on; if I'm not even getting close to that, I just step on it until I get as close as to it possible to eight to one, because usually when you're not gliding well, you probably in sync anyway. So you step on, you're trying to get, get out of that sync, and for me, that's kind of the way I fly. I just kind of look at an angle and just go with the flow and do
You are, you pretty aggressive about changing your direction of flight when you're in sync, or are you just hammering bar no?
I do. I actually use my b risers or weight shift, or just even rolling my ankle a little bit to change the speed bar, and actually will turn the glider 15 degrees or so. I don't do the 45 degree turn thing; I just do a little 15 degree here and there and just see if the sync rate's going up or down, and just kind of finding that fine line. And it just takes time to kind of figure that out, but sometimes you're just in sync, you just have to power through it, you know? Yeah.
I'm finding the sync here really strong, uh, and and like big seams of it, which are obviously the other side of, uh, you know, really nice because there were some nice convergence lines and stuff. Having more luck today with being a lot more aggressive, like when we do these big, you know, when you guys, uh, I'm sure you've all done these too, like in Brazil, the big downwinders they do up on the, on the Sertão and Quixadá and that kind of thing. I learned there that you can't, if you just stay in the sink and hammer the speed bar because you're going downwind, you're going to stay in it till the ground. You know, you almost had to come like 90 degrees off, which was new for me, you know, the, the whole like, it's supposed to be 45 degrees, that's what we learned, you know, that's not enough there. I'm finding here, it's also is that, are you guys finding the same, uh,
When the sink is strong, you do 90 degrees for sure. Yeah, uh, like I said, if the day is strong, maybe you just push the bar and a to b as fast as possible, but especially with a soft day, you better do your 90 degree and find a better, better line for sure. And again, back to observation, you have to really look even behind and see what the guys are doing behind, because behind they can tell if
they're going
better on a on a line more to the right or more to the left, so for sure. But switching directions—I mean, not switching directions, but turning 90 degrees—sometimes you have to do it because, like, you're saying, otherwise you push all the way to the ground.
Sometimes it happens that you have even to go back. I mean, you were—Francisco was talking about pilots climbing on the back. Yeah, if it's climbing and you're on the wrong side of the climb, you should go back, maybe sometimes. So if
This was a... this was something I also learned from Josh. Keep bringing Josh up, Josh bot, but um, and I... I see it in Chrigel in the X-Alps all the time. He's constantly going back in order to stay in the air.
Kind of formatted, uh, and comes when I learn, comes people keep going, yeah, go, go, go. And it's not good, sometimes you have to think and pause a bit and look around. And so, uh, pilots have a trick to do on tour from time to time just to look around. That's what I do sometimes, just, uh, zero five or something when you don't lose a much altitude, just to check what's going on around you and go back or back to course. Uh, talking about instruments, uh, we were discussing about the lines a bit earlier in the discussion. Uh, instruments are useful for that also because you can feel the air. Uh, well, when you look at your speed, so if you don't touch the bar, of course, you will have also lines with better speeds, or of course your vario, you have to look at it, so it helps for that.
Uh, it certainly helps for, uh, distance to next, uh, next waypoint, of course, that's what I'm looking at. Uh, and also what's very important to me is to know how high I am above ground, uh, at goal. So then it gives me the trigger to know, okay, now I can push the bar, I have a bit of, uh, of a buffer, and now I can go through. And so, yes, it's important to know instrument does ring, or they give you a signal or audio signal to to to inform you that, okay, now you're on glide to go, you can just push the bar and go. Uh, so it's important to read the instrument, but I share, uh, the thoughts of Francisco and Jimmy that, uh, the most important is, of course, to look around.
So, uh, I had a funny story about that, but it's looking at instruments. Uh, it was in the PWC and we had this waypoint, but the waypoint was on, uh, on a small, uh, shoulder on the mountain, and I was looking at my instrument and I was really getting close to to the waypoint, but at the same time I was getting close to the ground and I was going down smoothly but gently, and and so a few meters before, uh, the waypoint, I I understood that I would never make it, so I turned, and because I was watching only my instrument, I was so low that doing my turn I landed so I took my glider on my shoulder, I went like really 10 meters up, and then blim blim, it tagged the waypoint.
I took off from there, and I was right, it was final glide to go, so I did one final glide and I was on goal, but I wasn't landed, so it was funny. I
Love it. Um, that just made me think of something else. The, uh, the first day, um, you, you were on final glide and you bombed out, yeah? And then, Jimmy, you did yesterday. We all have, we've all bombed out many, many, many, many times. Um, is there a common theme? Is there a comp, you know? Is there, is there a, um, when, when you're on the ground after those, is it, is it, is it, it's very often the same thing, like, "Shit, this is something I, I really shouldn't do anymore," because I, you know, or well...
Of course, it's competition, so you have to play the game anyway. So, if you don't want to push, maybe you shouldn't join a competition.
if you
Don't want to take some risk if you don't want to, to you know, gamble a bit. Uh, you're, well, a bit, I say that. Um, well, uh, the the cool thing with competition nowadays is that you, you have a day that you can remove from your scoring, so you are allowed to do one mistake in most of the comps. Uh, pushing is part of the game, but uh, one thing is, we mentioned it earlier, is getting isolated and maybe sometimes in front, you have this feeling that, wow, you can do everything and you know that's your day. Well, sometimes it is. So, the the most difficult part of it is that you have to recognize it. Sometimes you're on the flow and you can really win the task, and I, I won a few tasks in my career, so, and that's really exciting, that's super nice.
Uh, it's a nice reward. So, I guess that's why, why we all most of
the time we're in the same situation, and we're in the same situation, and we're
The pilots fly winning a task, it's a... it's a real nice experience. But besides that, when you land and when you bond out, uh, the difference between the pilots, or amongst the pilots, is when you have a strong mental, because you have to have this capacity of get rid of that and, you know, erase the board and, okay, next day it's a new, new start and let's move on. Uh, it's difficult. It was difficult yesterday for Jimmy, it was difficult for me. The first day we were drinking a lot of beers to forget that, but uh, it worked. So Jimmy,
Before we, uh, I want, I want to make maintain that a line of thought for a second. He was talking about, um, going back, and one of the things that I, I've personally learned is that, you know, that it, it often seems like the distance to go back is like, "Oh my god, you know, I never did it for a while," and now every time I do, do it, you, you're immediately with them. Like, the penalty is, is zero. I find that the race is never, it's potentially one there, but where I tend to, I think, is the penalty is higher for when you're turning in crap, you know, like if it's an obvious climb that's behind you, it seems like it's the reward is always there to go get them, even though it seems like it's the wrong way, if you have experience with
That, yeah, I mean, I deal with that all the time because you keep wanting to push forward and you don't want to backtrack and waste time. But at the same time, is once you're on the ground, you're on the ground, you're not playing the game anymore. So you kind of have to remind yourself that every time that turning back is a good thing, it's okay to turn back, it's okay to apologize to the thermal gods, you know, like go back and get a climb, regather yourself. And then again, the race is long, you know, it could be very beginning of the day and if you're already low, why not? Maybe towards the end, you're racing, yeah, take, take some risks here and there. But on that, the moral cycle is really, uh, hindering this little answering session, but
We've got some in the background, sorry. Yeah,
Yeah, we're surrounded. Yeah, uh, one thing though is, uh, if you remember how, how you went outside the, the last thermal is also something to keep in mind because if it's, if there was a, you were on the lee side and it was a big sink after the thermal, then it might be not a good option to go back to it. Yeah, uh, so it really depends, but if there are so strong terminals and you know that you're not on the lee side of the thermal and that you will be able to catch up when you turn back, then yes, you have to consider, uh, going back to the, to the gaggle. Uh, but for that, you have to, maybe one of the main theme is, uh, here to be aware of the surroundings. So, of course, if you push like mad and after 10 minutes you realize that, oh, maybe I should go back, I will have a look, it's too late.
Yeah, so once you leave a thermal and you know that there are people still in the, you should check what they're doing and sometimes will hit the core at the right moment. You're leaving the thermal, and then you're definitely not in a good position, so you should go back immediately. So it depends, yeah, sure. But the main thing is be aware of happen what happens to around you and then the surroundings, so
We've got a, we've got a, uh, a dinner to go to, so I want to be mindful of our time. But, uh, one more question then I'm going to ask you guys all, so you can plant this as we're talking, but, uh, you're like, your most exciting cool comp story. But before we get to that, how do you guys approach the overall strategy for the week? Because, you know, we now that we have FTV, which is super cool, it allows us to push a lot harder. Um, you know, Francisco, this is an important comp for you. I know you're taking it pretty seriously because it means, you know, defending your position for the world's team. Rewind to the before the first day. How, how would you generally approach day one versus day three versus the last day? And obviously, that depends on where your position is. Kind of overall strategy, well...
See, I'm bad for this. I'm not a strategic guy. I guess, uh, I'm the guy that pushes every day, pretty much try to do my best every day. And, uh, I know we have a day that we can discard if we make a mistake, uh, but you should never count on that day. But just try to do your best every day, and if one day doesn't work, then you can discard it. At the same time, that means that you can push it. You can push and make
It work, and you can push it, and you can push it.
Maybe you missed, you're mistaken by pushing, but that gives you the opportunity to do it and discard it if you—if you didn't make it. So I guess, uh, trying the best every day is my only, my only strategy here. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, again, you know, it's like you count on that, so I think you can push every day pretty much. And would that
Would that change for you at all, say, if you were going into the last day and you were in the lead, or you were, say, securely in second or third? Would you... would you be more conservative? Well, it
Always depends on what type of tasks you did before, for sure. So if you're comfortable, you—you have at least five good tasks, uh, you can either push it to try to win another one, or you can relax and try to just, uh, give, uh, put, put, put in another good task in your list and, uh, and just be safe. But, uh, you just heard me, you know, you can push it again. I said I think, uh, my, my technique is just to push it every day, pretty much. Cool for
Me, I just kind of approach this as a learning experience and some kind of new at this again. And for me, every day I just trying to learn as much as I can and just kind of get a good feel. I think the best advice I ever kind of got was just, basically, just fly and then let your body do its natural thing. It's kind of trying to get into a flow, so once you're flying the paraglider without thinking about it, you're using your brain power to looking at, observing what's around you. The bird is looking at what's doing, what the wind's doing; you kind of, kind of just get a bigger picture of the situation. I find that really helps. For me, for me, safety is number one. You know, I always consider safety is number one, and um, I'd rather land than not fly another day. That's kind of my approach to that situation, yeah.
I want to dig into that just specifically with you, because you, you, and maybe compare this to pre-accident, post, because you were telling some stories the other night about how aggressive you were when you first got into it. You were flying like Comp Gliders day three, and you know, just like you were just full on. And then, and I'm—did the accident was it literally that that changed it? Because now you're like, I don't give a shit if I bomb out, I'm here to have a good time. Yeah.
It was pretty funny. I actually, when I started paragliding, I got invited to bayou. My friend Paul down, down to Bayou de Bravo. I have never flown thermals. He just basically told me to go learn at this coastal soaring site and then next week meet me at bayou. And then literally like, I showed up the week before the 2009 World Championship. I saw like all these cool pilots like Lisa Woodry like putting in the French flag on their advanced gliders and these things are so bitching. Just going out there flying with them, it's like, wow, you could circle on this stuff. I can get to like 6,000 feet. This is awesome, you know? I came back just or the wrong size glider or adding two small, you know, a pod and everything. You know, I was bitching and signed up for every single race as possible, just charging, learning as much as I could.
And literally from 2009 to 2010, I got a wild card at Jalan World Cup and I remember meeting Andre Ranford from South Africa and he basically kind of just told me straight up, it's like, hey, your demographic is most likely to get hurt because you just charge and you don't care. You know, you most likely gonna get hurt literally within three days, room I reserve. So that always stuck to my head and every time I do something stupid, I always kind of have that thought in my head. Um, so yeah, you just have to time and patience. You know, like when I jumped up class, my rules was basically when the class three times before I went up a class and that's what I did. So I won sport class three times, won zero class three times and then when the time I jumped up, that's when the Enzo one came out and that was, I think, it was too big a jump for me.
I wish I would have jumped on something like an Ice Peak six, something like that, more mellow and then maybe that would have prevented a lot of accidents, you know? And and I think, you know, that's lack of experience, not because the glider is bad. Just I didn't, I didn't. You just
weren't ready.
I just wasn't ready.
for
it. And then that took a long time. I mean, it was stupid for us. Go fly Elm's Valley midsummer. First of all, you know, that's how the accident happened. And, um, after that, it took a while for me to kind of get back to the sport, you know? And once I'm back, it's—it's kind of like riding a bicycle again. You kind of rediscover the fun of, you know, traveling to foreign places and meeting all your old friends again, like seeing Francisco in his home country and checking things out, and seeing Gavin and Robert, you know, like different parts. And it's funny, like, once you come to these comps, you see the same guys over and over again. It's kind of like reunion in certain ways. Another cool thing about comps is, like, you know, you kind of go to places that normally you don't—tourists don't go to, you know, less travel locations, and really get to know the people and experience the lifestyles and stuff like that. And I really highly recommend any pilots from any, you know, levels to do comps because I think it's great.
I mean, you pay here, how much do we pay for the comp? Like, 150, whatever, it doesn't matter, a very small amount. You get to fly for seven days with meteorological background, you just have pilots to talk to, share ideas, and just chit-chat and just have a good time and learn. I mean, that's a great value, yeah? You get, you know, minus the expenses that come in here, so
JP, what about you? Do you have a kind of a, an overall strategy, or do you have because you've been racing a long time, would you say 92, 98, 98? Yeah, do you have kind of a, um, you know, a strategy that that seems to work? I
would say I'm still learning. First of all, I came here with a firm intention not to use my, uh, discard day, so I did it on the first day. So you see, I still have lots of things to know. I knew it, I shouldn't, but anyway...
Yeah, no, it's just, I mean, it's a long process, I think. Um, it's also a question of mental. So, I, I realized a few years ago that, uh, it's if you want to win a comp, it's there is a different thing and winning comps, and I think those are two different kind of persons. Uh, all three around the table, we might be more the kind of winning tasks person instead of winning comps. Um, I've seen a lot of people winning comps without winning any task in their entire life. Yeah, and it's a different, uh, way of flying. So we didn't mention it today, but, uh, yeah, if you, if you want to win a comp, you have to fly a bit
of a different way of flying, and I think that's a
more conservative, and there is a way of doing it. The French have a very good strategy for that; it's just to put you in the position where you can kind of be dominant and wait and see what's what's going on and see what are the best opportunities and follow the best ones. It happens here also. We can also detect the pilots were acting or behaving like that. Uh, I wish I would do so when I want to win a comp, which I am on the way to that, uh, but I'm still more excited about winning a task. Uh, so far, yeah, it's fun. It's a lot of fun, JP.
Keep the mic. Um, can you regale us with, uh, the the the the comp story that comes to mind? It could be the most exciting or the most crazy, or it doesn't have to be you either. It could be something you saw, so
Yeah, I've been in many, many camps. I have had many stories. I remember that
I was talking to Calvo by the time it was, Calvo was the mid-director, and I, I was announcing all these pilots through reserve and etc. And the funny thing is, next morning he explained to the people at the meeting, "Yeah, Robert announced many reserve," and the last one was himself under the reserve was calling me and saying, "Oh, Calvo, I'm under the reserve." So there were that day, there were seven reserves on the same day, on the same day. We've had some sad stories. I was in Piedraita with my 2011 and then my kids asking me, "Why I do? Are you doing that sport?" I say, "Why are you asking the question? Well, you could die." And then, yeah, you have this kind of um of uh feelings. Uh, we we did this epic flight in Chelan, which I was lucky enough to be first on uh on goal when we did it, the 224 K's.
It was super funny. Uh, yeah, so I would say that uh It's, it's real adventure. Uh, flying comps is, uh, meeting people is also, uh, living incredibly incredible stories. When you land, you have so many images in your head, so many things to say. That's, it's, it's just impossible to share with anybody but pilots and, uh, I have very often the feeling that when I end up a comp, I come back home with a real full adventure and so, yeah, it made my, uh, my day or my holidays cool.
Jimmy, before you tell yours, I'll, uh, were any of you guys at the Superfinal with the fire flying in Columbia in 2000? It was 2012, but it was 2013, so we were... I don't remember what day it was, but it was the... it was my first year of comps and I got quite lucky because the PWC was in Sun Valley that year and and I got really lucky there and I got really lucky and I got really lucky, so I made it the Superfinal and, uh, and I was just getting trashed at the Superfinal. It was very humbling, but, uh, the, uh, we had the... they, they light the sugar cane on fire and rolled the Neo. Those of you been there, you've seen all these and, uh, some of them can get really big and these huge columns and it was quite a stable, slow day and the lead gaggle was, was trying very hard to get into goal and they and Chrigel was there and Yasin and, uh, and a few of them flew into the column and, uh, and Chrigel later posted his, his instrument and it was a 20 meter climb and Yasin went in to this thing like 50 feet off the ground, so Chrigel went in way high and just...
Chrigel that he went in, lost his glider, full stalled, got his glider back, lost his glider again, full stalled. Matt Beecher was just circling on the outside of this column and he was... that black, it was just a column of black and Farmer was like, "I'm not going in there," and he just watched just one guy after another go into this thing, it just explode. But Yasin went in right off the ground and it took him 2,000 feet above the top of the column like just straight up. His glider exploded right away, he never got it back together, it twisted up like a rope. He said he definitely had like more than 20 twists, it was literally just a rope over his head and, uh, and he went to throw his reserve and he thought, "Oh no, no, I can't throw it yet because I'll land in the fire." So he went two thousand, he just rode it all the way to the top and came out the top of the thing and went, "Oh, okay, now I can throw"
Anyway, that was my favorite cop story, but do you have a favorite, favorite cop story just
One thing to add, uh, they generate cumulus, so we have them pyro-cumulus, totally. Yeah, this—this one was big. Yeah, this one was
Big, it wasn't a little one, and Luke Armand got up the next day and, uh, and gave a very heartfelt, "I don't want to ever see anybody do that again. No, it was really dangerous in the"
comp, I think it was next year. There was, uh, a paramotor circling the fires to prevent us to go inside. Really? Yeah, yeah. Wow.
They set up safety, yeah.
Yeah, there was a new new setup. Jimmy, you got a favorite comp story, yeah?
It's, it's more like a like experience, you know? Like, when you start the sport, you kind of this dream of doing something amazing and stuff, but you know, to be serious, you know, like this is like esp and ocho stuff, you know? Like, not to make fun of the sport or anything, but it's just like, it's such a new growing sport. I kind of describe this as like, the sport to me kind of reminds me of like, in the 70s, you know, where guys are loading up their model socks in vans and... kind of vagabonding and just trying their hearts out, and there's no money involved. People really do this for their passion, and they just truly love the sport. That's what I really like about this sport, you know? That's what really kind of drives me, and you just get to see people from around the world and get to visit them and stuff. I mean, to me, that's kind of the the neatest thing. I mean, winning a task is great, you know? Winning a comp is good, but I think just kind of hanging out friends, it's probably like the favorite parts for me.
So I always say, people with the most fun wins the wins the comp, right? You know, even though you could be doing shitty, if you're still having the best fun, well...
In terms of stories, uh, have many stories like the fire ones in Brazil. Also, you know, there's a lot of fires in Brazil, and last time, uh, in the PWC, there, there was a one of these huge combs, and all the guys were going in, and I said, "No, I'm not going to go in there, it's just ugly." And of course, I mean, the day turned bad for me because the guys went super high, and I had to scratch all the way to the, to the goal, and they made it before me. So that's a bad story for me, yeah. But I guess, uh, stories about comp, comps are all, you know, just raising, and all the flying part is pretty much the same except with different touch-ups. But the good stories are behind the comps, the days you don't fly, which many can be told, many cannot be told.
Those are the best, uh, stories. Uh, I need a lot of time to tell them, but, uh, there's many all
Right, well, we'll save it for another show. Um, before we close, do you guys have any last bit of advice for the audience? Anything you know, the the the many people who listen that are maybe thinking about doing their first comp, or maybe thinking about taking their first trip to Valle or Roldanillo this winter, or here, or Chile? Um, you know, just any kind of advice for them, or what they should be thinking about? Well,
The first advice is, go as a as a learning process, so don't think you're going to win the comp. That that makes it safer. Uh, second is, uh, yeah, just go to comps. The way I started is, I thought, hey, I can go fly cross country and I have somebody to retrieve me and have all the safety around me and everything, and experienced pilots just taking me by the hand to long places, long long flights. So my advice is just just be as a student to the first comps, but go go to comps if you can.
I would, uh, push it even further in your direction. Uh, keep your glider. Don't buy a comp glider for your first comp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. So just make it with your glider. Uh, learn to fly. So you should change from to another glider once you really push the bar a hundred percent and you feel comfortable with that, then you can change the glider. Else, you don't use your glider enough, so you just keep it. And of course, it's frustrating. Uh, you see those comp gliders flying and literally, you know, leaving you. But, uh, that's part of the game. So I would also recommend people to enjoy and so just remove the pressure and try to make go as much as you can.
And as we all said, safety first. So don't put yourself into trouble, uh, and don't try to beat the lead gaggle when you, when you're doing your first comp. Doesn't work there.
There's a good thing you hinted on there, though, that I've been taking care of, and I think it's really important to keep in mind that, you know, the the two-liners these days—let's use the Xeno as an example because it's been a huge hit and tons of people are flying it—um, I think there's a lot of hidden risk there because it's it it's a it's a super solid glider. The two-liners these days are amazing gliders; they're really solid, and I think they they give people a lot of, uh, false confidence, yeah.
Uh, you made a point. Uh, I would recommend any comp pilot to do SIV before his first comp. That's very important. Uh, go, go to a lake, whatever, uh, find a school and have a reliable, uh, teacher or, uh, and and do SIV. It's very, very important to know how to recover from different situations and also to learn about your glider and to have the feeling of the glide of your glider. Uh, that's super important, yeah.
I'm glad you said that too, because I think people get a new respect for big spanny gliders when they start stalling them and doing weird stuff to them, and they're—it's not like learning how to stall a no, I
I come from a flat country in Belgium. It's very flat, so people used to buy big boys gliders, and we had this, uh, championship in Switzerland. Half of the people wouldn't take off because they were frightened by the conditions, and I respect that. I totally respect it, and that was, I think, a good decision. But it's a bit sad also because if they came with their own glider
They wouldn't be able to do it, and they wouldn't be able to do it, and they wouldn't
be able
to do it, and they
would have, uh, or uh, more, you know, adapted glider, they would have flown for sure. And it was a nice day, uh, to fly, so yeah, uh, sometimes you fly your own, uh, takeoff and sight and you feel confident, and but just go try your glider in the Alps or in some rough mountains, and then you'll see, okay, maybe I should practice more before changing my glider. I had one person, it's, it's very, uh, I have very often a person coming to me, oh, look, I'm willing to buy, as you know, or I'm willing to buy a flow or whatever, and I'm really trying to cool them a bit, but I have to say, I have to admit one thing though, is it's also a matter of feeling.
So I started to fly comp gliders quite quite early in my career because I've felt more confident under it, so but it's the behavior of the glider versus the pilot, so it's not only a matter of skills but something that, you know, there is a interaction between you and your glider, and if you have a good fit, then why not? But you have to know that you have to remember remain and stay humble. Below the glider, I've never seen a glider failed; I've always seen pilots failing, sure, yeah
I want to add to that too. I think it's very important to kind of start with a slower glider, and then you have to be more confident. And you have to be more confident, you could have just as much fun, you know? It's, it's just a funny feeling when you get this glider, you get a good start, you're crossing the valley, you know, you're just smashing bar. I just remember the time that, you know, the rat race, me and Kiwis crossing the the Apple Gay valley and just thinking that we were doing this, you know, at the start, and next you know, like five seconds later, you know, these big boys gliders, the skinny ninja wings are flying over us. But that's kind of cool because as you have as much fun as you can with these wings and you gain experience and respect for wings, um, you kind of look back now and laugh at these experiences and how much fun you had. And then, of course, flying these wings, you're going to make tons of mistakes and know your limits and stuff, but that's how you learn.
You have to make mistakes. If you just go out there and do the best, you never learn the basic. You didn't really set a strong foundation at first, and I truly believe that you have to spend a lot of time flying, spend a lot of time developing that process, and then getting into a system and working your way up to a, you know, those tiny little skinny wings that everybody wants to fly, but yeah
I mean, look at some of the guys here. I mean, there's a—there was a guy in an arctic today that was just crushing it out there, you know? I mean, it's awesome, and that's got to be a really good feeling. That's a good point.
to make like, yet last year we went to the Canadian Nationals in, um, Pemberton, and these Deltas were keeping up with the the Enzo threes because we can't push as far or close to the cliff. These guys could just full bar to the
was really taken away, you know? It's actually better flies, you know, in the in the delta, yeah, that point, you know.
Last year at the Monarca Marco, I mean, he's a very talented, great comp pilot, but he won it on the Queen, you know? He won it on a sea glider. He beat everybody on the Enzos, and because he could just, he mashed bar through all the convergence. We were always coming off like, "Oh god," trying to deal, and he just kept going. Yeah, it was pretty cool. Well,
I stayed in the previous conversation, I lost my mind for a bit, but uh, what I wanted to add to the previous conversation was, uh, don't try to beat your next guy, the guy next to you. So, the first time you go to a comp, just go as a learner again, and uh, don't try to beat the guy next to you because it doesn't change anything in the results. To win a comp, it requires a full week of good flying. So, when you're flying next to a guy and you're like, "Ah, I want to beat this guy next to me," you don't even, probably don't even know who he is, but at that moment, you just want to beat whoever is around you. That's a huge mistake everybody makes, especially in the beginnings, and that's when you, when you get yourself into trouble, when you push it more than you need it just to beat the guy next to you, and that's not going to change anything in the comp result.
super so just
Uh, you know, keep in mind that to win a comp, it takes seven full, really good flying days from you. Uh, so most likely in the beginning, it's not because you don't have experience, so just go to a comp to enjoy every single flight, not winning against your buddy next to you. Just use your body, be the be a buddy to him and fly with him. That's when, that's what it's going to take you to go. And I'm still mad at you. Yes, I don't, I don't forgive you, so
Disappointed, guys. Great, thank you so much, I appreciate it. And listeners, I hope you enjoyed that, and uh, let's go get some chow. All right, thank you guys. Thanks, guys. I
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