Hi
there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloud Base Mayhem. Just got off the phone with Theo Worden. This has been a highly asked for pilot because he is 19 years old. He was actually in my little class that I did up in the Lakes District at Jockey's about a year and a half ago with the Cross Country Magazine and Ed Ewing organized for us, which was super fun. Obviously, a super talented pilot, and he just got back from winning the Europeans, which is kind of like the world's, you know, super high-caliber competition, and in a long one, like the world's ten days, so to keep it together for that long is super impressive. It was really tight all the way to the end, but he pulled off the win, and then they all went over to the British Nationals and he won that as well. So, unbelievable!
I mean, to have that kind of success would be amazing in a career of being a competition pilot, and he's done it at 19. And then, right after that, he went to the World Cup in Sopot and Bulgaria, got a little bit of humble pie, did not win that one. So that was—that was cool, just to keep everything honest. And so we talked about all that, talk about how he did it, the kind of the mental side of things, the whole mentoring program that the Brits have been doing with Guy Anderson and Russ Ogden and all those guys. Obviously, that's creating some amazing results, maybe something we should be doing here in the States and other places. So, yeah, a lot of—we talk about flow and mental state and, you know, not making mistakes and being disciplined and all the things you got to do to do well in competitions. We also talked about his job a little bit; he repairs gliders and trims gliders with his dad.
That's how they got—that's how they're funding things right now. He and his dad fly a lot together, and so talk about trimming gliders and the importance of it and when you should do it. So, yeah, a lot of little good nuggets here that I think you're gonna enjoy, and without further ado, please enjoy this great talk with Theo Warden.
Theo
Awesome to have you on the show. I've been stoked to catch up with you and find out how in the world you just pulled off these amazing wins, so really psyched to talk to you about that. Congratulations to these British and the Europeans. I mean, you've already like had a had a lifetime of of wins. You, you're, you're—I'm super envious, man. That's, that's super, that's amazing. And I've flown with you and done that little course we did a little over a year ago with Ed and the boys over it in the lakes with Jockey, and to see you pull that off was super cool. So yeah, man, congratulations. I
Really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me on the podcast, yeah.
A lot of people have been asking for it, so it's, you know, it's, it's cool. To people are like, "This dude's 19 and he just won Europeans, and you won the British, so you've got to get him on the show." So yeah, excited to talk to you.
Yeah, thanks. Why
don't we start with your history? You know, because you are 19, right? Do I have that? right yeah
19 yeah
So, you know how long you've been flying? How'd you get into it? When did you start comps? You know, give us the resume version of your... of your career thus far, okay?
Cool, so um, yeah, actually the first time I saw a pack, that I have a little little story, and we are live right on the edge of kind of national park called the Peak District, and where me and my family used to go into the Peak District for walks on the weekends to get a boy from the city, just some time to relax, and we have this one ridge called Stanage Edge, and they used to prior guys used to just fly along this ridge for hours and hours, well, whilst we kind of went for our walks, and you look up at them, you give them a wave, and then they'd flat the brakes and wave back. I always, yeah, after that I can, um, I kind of always thought of it as something that I wanted to do, and that was back when I was a super small little kid, and I always thought of it as something that I wanted to do, and that was back when I was a super small little kid. So when, um, my dad, actually, he wants to get into it as well, he was about around 50, and he asked my mum if he, if she wants to get into flying, she tried it, didn't really enjoy it, so he went onto it, and then, yeah, I got trained up, and then a year later the BHBA, the, the kind of governing body of paragliding in the UK, they, they changed the learning age from 60 to 14, so as soon as I, as soon as I heard that, I applied to get a job, um, I was just trying to save as much of my money, so as soon as I was 14, I could pay for equipment training and go on to, uh, go on to learn.
I remember actually the first, the first time I flew was, I think, the day after my 14th birthday, so I've got everything sorted out, and it was, yeah, man, after that, yeah, it's awesome. I can remember standing in the, I learned in airways on the tow on a flat field, we got towed up, and the first time I can remember shaking and, um, feeling really nervous, but as soon as actually I remember, as soon as we took off, it was only like 20, 20 feet above the ground, just all the anxieties completely vanished, and I just felt super happy, and as soon as on the ground, I just started running around, yeah, as you would as a 14 year old would, it was absolutely awesome, so that was kind of my, like, my introduction into into paragliding, um, and since then you have just been flying as much as possible.
So when I was in school, I had the opportunity in like summer holidays where I could just spend all of my time, like, flying, looking at the weather, just doing any kind of preparation I can, um, yeah. And with competitions, I think I've been flying around, I think I've been flying around, uh, one and a half to two years. I think maybe my first competition was when I was 15, or no, I think it was 16. I was flying a Nova Mental 4 when I was in the Nova Nova team. Yeah, that was San Andre in France, is the British British championships. And yeah, I did terribly, but it was just amazing fun because we have all these people that had come from kind
of like all over the world, and they all come meet in one place, and they all come meet in one place, and they all come place to fly all together. They all know each other really well. There's always lots of, you know, banter, and I kind of ever since that, I just got hooked. It was partially the flying, but partially also the kind of the fun that you'd have with the people and getting to know new people, and all of all of that, that's what I really enjoyed. So yeah, um, after that, I am, yeah, the addiction just kind of took over my life, and it went from to school and flying to getting a job with my dad off at Aerofix. We service gliders and trim them and repair them, make sure they're all safe to fly, and that's my full-time job now.
And pretty much alongside that, I try and do as much comps as possible and, uh, fly as much as possible.
And between that, the uh, the British Championships when you were 16, and and now, do you have a guess how many comps you've flown, um?
Yes, I actually look, I've been flying for a long time and I've been out. Um, I looked this up the other day because there's something on a on the c civl website or cvil website where it tells you how many comps you've done and which positions you've got. I think the last PWC that I did in Bulgaria was my 10th competition, so the um, so
The Europeans were your eighth competition, yeah?
the Europeans was my eighth, oh
Theo, there must be... there must be a lot of pilots cussing you right now, cussing, and yet thrilled at the same time. That's amazing. That's amazing. Thanks.
Yeah, it's just been such an amazing experience. Like, everyone in paragliding is just so friendly, and yeah, the flying is absolutely amazing. The views you get are amazing. I love this sport, and
and do you have, um, are there many other peers like at your age that you have, you know, you have buds that are you're flying with that also got? Because that, that's quite unusual over here. We don't, we don't have many young people getting into the sport, it's been one of the challenges of of USHPA, but you know, we're trying to, trying and trying to figure that out. Like, maybe tell me, tell me a little bit about, you know, because I understand Guy and Russ have been pretty, yeah, pretty cool about creating kind of a juniors program. What is that? You know, what is it? Is it like official? Do you get, do you get funds for it, or is it just kind of a mentoring thing? How does that all work?
Um, so I'm not too sure on the fun side, but yeah, we have the BPRA, which is the British Racing Paragraph BBB British Paragliding Racing Academy, and um, it's pretty much, yeah, a group of us where Russ, um, Guy, Idris, and Malin are kind of like Malin love the mentors, and they kind of bring everyone together. Um, we do kind of like boot camps, um, SIVs, and um, yeah, competitions all together, and we, um, they just try and get as many young people into it as possible to try and kind of make it easier, so they organize the, uh, the SIVs and all this kind of stuff, and they try and subsidize it, which really does help because, uh,
I'm, yeah, I'm 19. I have a full-time job. I'm, I spent all of my money on paragliding, so I'm still pretty poor. Um, so yeah, with with people my age, it's definitely getting better. So we have, yeah, we have quite a few now. So we've got like Jack Pimbley, he's really good. He's flying acro as well as doing competitions. Um, and he's, yeah, he's killing it. We've got Antonio, we've got a few other young people like Jack Bailey, um, Kevin Maynard, Laurie Nocta. Laurie Nocta is actually my, um, he actually taught me how to fly at Airways. He was my instructor, and now we're flying together in competitions, which is, which is awesome, and
He was in, he was in the course we did, right? Wasn't he up there with us in the lakes, um...
Yeah, Laurie was actually there. I think he was in your other other one, the other one. Yeah, I think he went just before us.
right right yeah
Yeah, did you like it good? Yeah, that was really fun. That was the first thing I'd ever taught
Yeah, no, that was—that was, I mean, you know, as I mean, you know, I do a lot of informal teaching, but I've never been a formal instructor, you know, that kind of thing like that. So that was, you know, that was a real blast, and it's always just cool to share space with Jockey, you know, such a good, yeah, of
course, yeah, he really is. Um, yeah, I think he's actually the new British team.
like the captain or something? Yeah, British team captain, which I'm really excited for. I can't really—I can't wait until next year, so
Very cool. And so, take me, you know, like when you, when you jumped on a plane to go to the Europeans, you know, what, what were your goals? What were your hopes? What were you, you know, were you, were you hoping to win? Were you expecting, you know, were you expecting top 10? Were you just hoping for to have fun? You know, take me through, uh, that whole experience. And then also, I'd love to hear, you know, like, Derby's during the comp, what you were hearing from your mentors, what were you hearing from Russ? What were you hearing from, you know, like, "Hey dude, keep it together," or like, "discipline," or, you know, what? What was, what was some of the advice you got? Because Europeans are long, and it's like a world, you know, I mean, you, yeah, it's like, it's like golf. You really got to hold it together for multiple days. You
Do, and um, yes, I think it's about a 10, 10-day competition. And when I was, when I was heading out there, I wasn't really expecting anything, I think, um, because one of the things I've learned from Guy and Russ is that, yeah, it's all about discipline and all this, but it's, I've kind of, I feel it's, it's all just fun, isn't it? Like, we don't, we don't get anything from winning, it's just the, the experience of taking part, flying with your friends, having a good laugh, and a bit of, obviously, a bit of competition, being competitive, um. So, yeah, after the Superfinal last year or this year, um, I've just tried to take the attitude of, go to a competition and as relaxed as possible with a completely clear head and just fly for the fun of it, really.
And I think that's, that's what's been, um, really helpful for me, because I think when I stress too much about results, I just get completely stressed out, I'll crumble up proper, I'll really, um, yeah, I kind of like mess up the end, or I won't be consistent, I think, um. Yeah, that's, that's been the biggest thing to kind of help me is I've listened to Russ and Guy, and I've listened to Russ and Guy, and I've listened to Russ, and they've kind of, um, yeah, given us this idea of what, what flying should be, and, um, I heard
I heard from some of your compatriots that, you know, you like, you just said that, uh, you know, you went in with this attitude of just trying to be really relaxed and, you know, taking it easy and, you know, just having fun. Were you successful at that, um?
Yeah, I was. And okay, I heard you.
Got a little bit sick before both of those comps, a little maybe some butterflies, um...
That was actually, it's quite a funny story. Um, I was actually ill during, during the Europeans, so I, I, um, it's a bit gross, so I had a, I had this camelback, and I hadn't washed it for a while, so the first day I drank from it, and then I got really ill. I was pretty much, I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't really do too much. I had to, um, actually, yeah, that day I, I was really, really ill. They actually cancelled the task. So I was in the HQ. This really lovely, lovely organiser called Valentina came and picked me up. Off the floor, I was laying down next to the toilets. Oh yeah, she, um, she just looked after me, which was awesome. Um, we ended up going to the doctors just really quickly to stick an IV in me and get me rehydrated.
Um, and then we drove up the hill, ended up being cancelled the day anyway, but, um, yeah, and that gave me a chance to recover, but it was, it was really quite full-on. Oh,
You were, you were just sick. I, I understood it that you were just, it was just nerves, no?
No, it was, um, it was probably properly, um, fully dehydrated. Proper illness, yeah, I
Was watching the Europeans, you know, kind of each day. And, and, uh, you know, you had some, you had some really nice strikes early. What, what, you know, mentally, where were you, you know, after the first couple days? Like, okay, what, what was the strategy, strategy of the whole race? Like, did it change? Did it, did you alter anything, or was it always just like, just go have fun? Yeah.
I think you know, um, my main strategy is, uh, have fun and just be trying to be as consistent as possible. I'm, I don't try and push too hard; I'd only push if I have a really obvious opportunity, and that's something that Guy and Russ have been teaching since the beginning. So stay disciplined, stick with the gaggle, um, just don't put any, put yourself anywhere where you're going to be low and exposed, so people can just pimp you. Pretty much, you need to work
Do everything like as a gaggle, because I feel like the gaggle does move the fastest, and even if it doesn't go the most direct way, it seems to find them more efficient, um, efficient paths. And, uh, yeah, so they during the competition, none of the, none of the strategy changed at all. It was pretty much just the same thing every day. The first day, yeah, we landed out pretty much everyone in the, in the British team, but I just landed and I laughed because it was just such a fun, it was such a fun task. We were blasting along this committee definitely convergence. And the cloud, there were little tendrils coming down and people were smashing through them. It was a really, really good day. It's just, we were unlucky enough to, um, not get the next thermal and we all landed.
What was your, what was your wing? Um, you take me back to the, the men you were flying the mentor for in the beginning in San Andre. Um, how have you moved up? How have you decided to move up and what are you flying now?
Um, so I'm flying an Enzo three at the moment and yeah, absolutely love it. My, my favorite wing I've had, um, I'd ever really, it's just amazing supply, but yeah, back to, back to the Nova and the mentor. So I, I flew that first in San Andre and I think I'm not too sure, but I think my, maybe my next competition was on it. And then I went to Jamona, uh, which was a British championships. And that was a week where we did a BPRA kind of bootcamp. Um, and I had the chance to fly a Delta two, which after flying the men's men's four was then my favorite wing. And then the next day I managed to fly a borrower peak four.
So the Niviuk, the Niviuk END. And yeah, I love that. So I kind of had, um, over, over two days, I went from an EMB to a C and then to a D two liner. And I ended up actually buying the peak four at the end of that trip. So I went, um, I kind of had a really quick transition, which probably wouldn't recommend, but yeah, it felt, it felt super natural at the time with, um, taking everybody else's advice and being careful about it. But yeah, so that's how I, I, um, moved up. And then after that, I flew the Zeno, the Ozone Zeno and then onto the Enzo. So yeah, and that, I think that's actually been in the last two years or one and a half years.
It's been pretty, pretty recent, a bit fast.
And then are you doing, um, tell me, tell me about these bootcamps. What's that? What does that involve?
Um, so it depends on the, um, on how they set it up each year, but, um, usually it involves Russ or guy coming and they'll pretty much, they'll just bring us all together and say, right this day, we're going to fly this task and it's going to be like a normal competition day. So we'll have a start, a course and a finish. And then at the end of each day, we would go back to a room with a TV. We'd load all the, um, track logs onto a computer and we'd play them back and we could kind of look through, see what we all did, why we did it and kind of analyze each bit as we go along. And yeah, it seemed to be, I think it, yeah, it's a really good way of doing it. So you're not just, you can't, you can't say, hey um you can't really blame anything else apart from yourself because if you make a mistake it's obvious we're on the screen we can watch it and you'll you can't run away from it so
it's, um, it's quite good. It makes you come to terms with, with any kind of traits or mistakes do you, um, do you have in your flying? So yeah, it's quite exposing.
How does that, how does that align, um, with just your, your XC flying, like the North South cup, for example, or something like that? Like the, um, you know, one of the things that I've been really battling in my own, comp flying is like you, I had some, you know, kind of early success probably before, and I'm not comparing myself now to you because you'd been doing a lot of training, but my, my early success in comps was, was probably a lot of it was just luck and probably just taking it very, I wasn't serious about it. And, uh, and then you would do well. And then, and then I started thinking, oh, I could, I could do well, I should train at this. And then, then I lacked the discipline. I was constantly pressing out and, you know, just, I remember at the Superfinal in 2012, you know, Russ came up and, and, uh, and, you know, and he was like, you know, discipline.
That was, that was his word. That's his thing. Yeah. And, uh, and so I've been really trying to kind of rejigger how I fly, but it really doesn't often totally align, um, with, with comps. I mean, it's, it's still hard for me to bleed, to be disciplined and it's hard to, um, I don't know. It's just, it's, my, my best flying is done when I'm creative and, you know, I go for it and I try to take something deep. Uh, you know, like in this last great example, the last day of the, of the Nordic open that I just got home from, um, you know, a bunch of us had scored really poorly because of, uh, this, there was a ton of pilots. They're not making nominal distance every day.
So a lot of the days, you know, you'd make goal and it'd be like, you'd get 450 points kind of thing. And so it was, uh, it was, it skewed things in a really strange way. Anyway, the last day, um, the really obvious line was, was way off course line. You know, there was this, you know, the clouds were smoking over this Ridge and, and, uh, and two people went that way, uh, Ari and another guy, Louie. And they did, you know, they came in to go like 20 minutes ahead of everybody else. And it was, it was totally the line I would have taken if I was just flying XC, but this whole like discipline thing is like, no, Gavin, don't leave the lead gaggle. Don't leave the lead gaggle. The lead gaggle, we'll figure it out. And the lead gaggle, a lot of them bombed. Um, it was, it was really tough cause we took the wrong way. Um, yeah. And, uh, anyway, and it's been, it's been a really, it's been really interesting to try to kind of figure that out.
And I just wonder if that's something that's happening in your own flying.
Um, yeah, I think, yeah, I think power guiding is a lot. There is a lot of luck in power guiding because no one can see all of the weather. You could go to a cloud and it could, there could be no lift under it. I think there is a lot of luck in what we do. I think there's also a lot of making your luck, um, is a big part of it. So kind of looking at the bits you can see. So the clouds, maybe the red looking at some ridges, like seeing if there's, um, any kind of darker fields out in the valleys. But, um, yeah, I think most of my flying has been recently has been with, um, like really high level competitions. So, and really high, well, really skilled pilots. So it's been quite, quite easy just to, um, see what they're doing and trying to understand why they're doing it.
Um, I think in that way, flying with, um, the people I've had the opportunity to fly with, it's been, yeah, it's just been pure learning. I've, I've not had too many days where, um, the lead gaggle, lead gaggle has failed. I kind of failed. I've had lots of days where kind of the, um, the second gaggle will overtake and then the first gaggle will overtake again. We've had a lot of kind of gaggle hopping and leapfrogging, but yeah, I think I've, yeah, I think I actually have been really, really lucky in my, um, in my, in my career, flying career so far, hopefully, uh, carry on with it.
Yeah. And that's, that's been kind of an interesting, interesting thing to watch. You see, I mean, obviously you see the consistency of people like, you know, Mark Watts and Guy and Russ, you know, it's very rare that they're not up there in the top 20, you know, but, but you do see it, you, you still see it happen. Like Aaron Durogati won the Superfinal two years in the row. And then last year he was in his, in the eighties, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's pretty interesting. You get on these runs where like, you can't do anything wrong. Like, like Mickey Siegel this year, he just couldn't, he just couldn't get it wrong. And, and I heard from other people, I wasn't, I didn't go to the Superfinal this year and I wasn't down in Brazil, the other one he won. And, but I, I heard that, you know, it was kind of like, he would take lines that other, other people were kind of like, Ooh, man, that's kind of, and it would work. It would, it'd be like, he would leave the gaggle and go do it.
His own thing. And it would work. And it's, yeah, I'm finding it hard to really hit that, hit that. Right.
Yeah. I, um, there are just, um, it's people like, oh no, who just, I swear in previous lives, they are, they were birds. Actually this one time in the euros, there was this, um, power, you know, how they do power hawking. Well, there's kind of, um, Hawks. It was flying around, um, waiting for it. Uh, it's like, I don't know, it's mastered to take off. And, um, it went and landed on on those head. I just, I just thought to myself, like, there's something going on. Maybe he was just a bird in the past life or something. If you believe, if you believe something like that, but yeah, it's, um, I don't, I don't know. I think, um, I think maybe that comes with experience because, um, there haven't been a huge amount of opportunities where I've thought, right, let's go for it and try and like gain 20 minutes on everybody else.
But I think there's just some people can do it. And they can do it really consistently and they get that flow where they can just kind of, they can stay relaxed and do everything completely right. It really is just amazing to watch.
So let's talk about flow. Cause I've just been reading a ton of books and chick sent me high and all, you know, all the, all the, all the, there's a ton of information coming out about flow. Stephen Kotler's books recently and rise of Superman and stuff and stealing fire. It's been, it's been quite fun. Are you doing training outside of just hours?
Um, I think most of my competition, well, most flying has been competition recently. And I've, I've been really busy with work and other commitments. So I've not actually been flying a huge amount, but the flying that I have been doing has been, I think the right kind of flying is to just as many competitions as possible. And then it kind of gets me in the, uh, the zone. And I, I see it. I think that's, uh, that's what helps if I'm flying competitions the whole time, kind of stay in that flow.
I mean, the, the last PWC I did, um, yeah, that was, um, definitely, it was amazing fun, but, um, I didn't do too well and it was still, yeah, still an amazing competition, but yeah. I was
going to say, so you, you win the Europeans, uh, and then you, you immediately win the British right after that. Does that put more, less, what were you feeling any pressure from that going into the world cup? Or could you, can you pin down, uh, what went wrong in the world cup or was it just paragliding? You know, sometimes it doesn't matter. It just doesn't go right.
Yeah. I mean, I, it's quite funny cause, uh, after the two competitions, I didn't, I didn't feel really any pressure. Um, I think it was just, it made me love the sport even more. And yeah, it was, um, there wasn't really a huge amount of going through my head. Maybe I'm just, just a bit simple, but, um, yeah, I went to the PWC with just that, that eagerness to fly. Cause you know, when, you know, on those days where you'd like, you could, you bomb out, you're either in the mentality of, fuck, I've just messed this up. This competition is ruined. Or you're feeling like I absolutely can't wait for tomorrow. I wish I was on launch right now, about to take off for the next task. And pretty much every day that I bombed in, um, in the PWC, I had that attitude. I can't wait to fly again.
It was, um, yeah, I've before when I was putting too much pressure on the, on the results, I never used to get that. I always used to get frustrated and now it's just, yeah, I'm, I'm really enjoying this. Uh, this kind of carefree, a bit more relaxed approach to, um, to competitions. I think for my, my personality, it suits me.
And was that, um, did that just come naturally or is that something you consciously decided or was that a feedback from other people? Cause I think a lot of people, including myself at times get that wrong. You know, you land and kick your helmet. God damn it. Um, you know, and it's definitely not, that's not, that's not, not the way to learn. Yeah. You know, the, absolutely the way to do it is like, that was amazing. I just had, I just flew number one. That's amazing. And then I just landed. That's amazing. And I'm safe. That's amazing. It's all good. And then we get to go do it tomorrow. Like that's, this is incredible. That should, should be the attitude, but it's not always the one we have.
And no, that's true. And I think, um, I would land and then I would, um, I would just like take a few minutes to think about what happened to, um, if I land on my own, you have to think about like, why, why was I on my own? Why did I land? Um, what did I do differently? Um, cause I think you have to think about it while it's still fresh in your head and just keep it in mind for the next few days, but don't let it like kind of drag you down. I think that's what kind of got to me. Um, is it used to just try and get in my head and I was thinking, right, I have to fly good now, but really just treat each day the same. You're just flying for fun, try and, um, do the best you can and enjoy it in the process. I think that's, that's how I've been doing things. So I think it was, um, it was conscious.
I think maybe cause over time I would have, um, I would have both of both experiences and thing, and then I would do better after a day where I was more relaxed and kind of eager to fly the next day. Cause if I was angry, I'd have this red mist. Um, I think I, the, the, uh, the days after that would, wouldn't be as, um, wouldn't go as well for me. They wouldn't be as fun. And then it would make, make it even less fun. Cause I'd get even more angry. Yeah. It's, um, I think I put in two and two together. I just decided to try as hard as I can to kick out that negative emotion and just fly for the fun of it.
Let's, uh, switch, switch here a little bit to, uh, your job. Um, how, how much is trimming gliders? You know, how often should we be trimming our gliders, you know, at the competition level? How much, how often are you tweaking your own? Um, what are we, you know, those of us who, cause I, we just started doing that this fall and I've been, it's been quite fascinating. Um, tell me about that whole side of things, you know, how, how, um, you know, you're flying an Enzo, how often should you be, um, trying to make that thing go better?
Um, I think, I mean, when I'm, um, I actually trim my, uh, wing before every competition. If I get a chance to, if I go home, um, just to check that everything's as it should be. And, um, that is, um, that's the way I like to fly it before I, uh, before I get on the plane and go and fly the competition. Uh, but that's because I have the opportunity to just go on a weekend and check my trim. And for other people, I've, I think, um, just as much as possible, if you're flying competitions and, um, you want to get the best result, I think at a high level, you need your wing to be on, on par or yeah, you need, you need to be as good as it could possibly be.
Um, cause you know, you get those really long glides and if you're flying slowly, you won't be matching everyone's speed. Or if, um, if something funky is going on with the trim, your glide might not be as good or your climb might not be as good and you'll just get left behind. And sometimes it can be the glider it's, it's, um, and that can get inside your head. So, um, yeah, I think definitely at least, um, once a year, if you're flying an Enzo, it, it definitely needs or any comp wing. It depends on the comp wing, but, um, I think there are small things that change over time, especially as soon as the first, the first kind of 50 hours are quite crucial. I found, I found that the lines kind of, um, the way I see them is like, they're like a memory foam mattress.
And when you get them brand new, they've got no kind of, um, impression at all. They're not, they've not been used, but as soon as you start using it, they'll kind of shrink or stretch to their shape. And then they'll kind of remain there for, remain there more consistently over, over time, um, is my experience. Um, so that first 50 hours, I think you really need to be looking at it because the first, first 10 hours I flew my Enzo is absolutely amazing. And then after that, I kind of just slowly started to get slower and slower. And then I got to trim it. And it was amazing again. Um, so yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. It really does make a huge difference between even, even five millimeters can make a huge difference to the way the wing feels.
And I wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought that because I'd come from wings like the Nova where you could have like over the whole kind of, um, the whole cord, it could be the kind of 20 mil shorts at the back on the seasoned D's. Um, compared to the A's and it still flies. Okay. It's a little bit slow and the handling's not as great. Brake pressure is a bit light, but, um, on an Enzo, if it was like that, you'd, you'd absolutely hate it. It'd feel completely different. I felt when it was, uh, when it was new and, um, because it's such a gradual process, you might not actually recognize it. So, um, yeah, back to the subject. I think we should get it checked as much, as much as you can.
Um, maybe,
um, send it to someone or you can actually make your own trimming kit. It's not actually that expensive. You just need a laser. Um, like you can make your own kind of targets and pulleys and make sure it's loaded five kilos every line when you pull it, um, just get it checked as much as possible is what I think.
Are there, are there generalities you're seeing? Is that, I mean, they, they, from what, from all the checks I've done, they, they seem to always shrink, you know, the lines always get shorter. Okay. So is there, is there, is there, is there generalities you're seeing between the A's? I mean, is it, is it, is it typically like, like if I brought you a 50 hour Enzo before you even checked it, are you going to be like, yeah, I can pretty much tell you what we're going to be doing here.
Um, yeah, there's a few things I've, I've had a lot of experience with ozone wings just cause, um, a lot of people in the UK seem to be flying ozones and especially Enzo's or Zeno's. Um, so I can say that generally, um, the bees do shrink and, um, when you're flying, well, yeah, yeah. The bees, the bees do shrink. So you'll either have to, um, loop the A's or if they've got loops in the bees, you'll have to release the bees or yeah. And it's quite interesting. So you'll, you'll measure a wing and, um, it's not always just quite as simple as releasing a few loops. It's, um, it's quite subtle. So you've, you've got the, um, yeah, if you go into it, a lot of detail.
But, um, there's, there's some things that, um, might be changing on one side, which might only be changing on the other, or some things might be asymmetric. Um, yeah, it's, it's all changed. Everything kind of changes differently and it depends on the wing and how it's been flown. Um, one of the things I have found on the, the ozone, um, ozone wings is they have a, uh, a dyneema loop that holds the, the AR three. So it's kind of like, but the, the AR one, AR two, they're on the main riser block, and then you've got an extra kind of dyneema loop that's on the holding the AR three, um, on the Xeno, especially I found that, that seems to shrink quite a bit, which is kind of natural for dyneema.
Um, so dyneema, that we kind of use in power garden. We use two materials, dyneema and Kevlar. Um, dyneema is really good for strength, but it's, um, not, it's not, It's not é; it doesn't always do the best at maintaining its length, and Kevlar is really good at maintaining its length, but it gets weaker quite a bit faster is what I've found. So it's got this dynamo loop, and that kind of pulls the A3s down, AR3s down and that can make the tips quite fast so that's something you need to watch out for if you're flying an Enzo or a Xeno sometimes you can have everything slowing down and the tips
relatively, kind of speeding up. There's some weird things that can happen and
that causes them to tuck a lot it
Can cause it to collapse a little bit if the tips are too fast, they'll become unstable. Yeah, there's quite a lot that goes on, and I'm not a test pilot, but it's quite fun, kind of taking these wings, trimming them, playing around and then flying them and seeing how it makes a difference because it really can make a difference in the feeling just from a few millimeters
very cool so tell me about you do these three comps you've got your little bit of humble pie there at the end at the World Cup and SOPOT and so what does the winner look like to you? what were the takeaways? obviously it sounds like you like flying even more than you did when you went there yeah so you're still super stoked about it so what does that mean for the next kind of six, nine, twelve months?
Yeah, I'm just really excited to fly as much as possible.
pretty much as many comps as I can possibly do, and also I want to spend a little bit more time flying
just not competition, so maybe taking people to tandems, flying together with friends, but I think in the next kind of year or two I'd really like to get into either doing something like tandems commercially or doing some more, maybe getting into guiding something along those lines that isn't really related to the comps, which I can have as well as as well as the comps
and I might have this wrong but I'm pretty sure you and I talked about the X-Alps when we were up there together flying around together is that still something you're interested in?
Yeah, definitely. Actually, yeah, that's another thing I missed off the list. I really, really want to get into kind of the full Biv scene, just because I love the idea of freedom where you can just take your wing and go absolutely anywhere, just go for it. But yeah, I just need to—I need to find the time, really, to be able to do that, because everything's—everything's a bit busy at the moment. I just need to get myself somewhere where I can go for it.
can I ask did you apply for 2019?
I'm definitely not fit enough to do anything like that. I've, yeah, I think you can run a marathon, and that's not even close to what the guys in the X-Alps are doing. They're just like a marathon every day, and you need, yeah, like, well, you know exactly, you know? So you tell me, I think it's just a lot, a lot more physical than anyone has actually, unless they've actually done it. Anyone knows about it's pretty extreme.
Yeah, it's pretty out there for me, for sure. But you know, if you—if you apply, you'll, and you get in, you'll be like, "Yep, okay, gotta do it." So I hope, I hope I'll see you in it in one of the future years. That would be—that'd be awesome. And you got—yeah, you got plenty of time, obviously. So that's very cool. I think I just need to apply.
like you say, just go for it, just train
And so, your, your relationship with your dad—I met him when we were up there as well, super psyched he was. You can see, very proud father is he. Still, pretty, pretty into flying himself? Do you guys fly a lot together?
Yeah, he's like, me, he's not lost the passion. He absolutely loves it, so he's not as much into competitions as me. He tried that out and he decided he wasn't as into it, but cross country is really where his heart is, where his heart's at. Yeah, every time we get a chance to go out to the hill and go XC, it's just, yeah, you can tell he loves it. That's, that's really what he's interested in.
You guys, you guys do any trips together, or is it mostly in the UK?
It's mostly in the UK. Neither of us have had a huge amount of time this year, just because work's kind of exploded. We've had so much service work, but yeah, we want to planning in the future. We want to go away and do a bit more kind of vol biv together, something a bit bit more interesting and combining the two, walking and and flying, which is kind of a passion we've we both have, we both share. So yeah, that's that's the plan for the future, more trips together.
So, Theo, you know, taking us back to the competitions, you know, you're only 19, you've had this amazing success there. What would you like to pass along to the listeners about, you know, what did you, what did you learn from it? What would you, you know, if you could go back to your Nova day and come back up to where you were, would you do that? would
you change
anything? you know what are the kind of the the bigger takeaways about how to do well?
Sure, I think something that I've learned over time, and I've had a lot of help from—I don't know if you know Judy Ledin, she, she's a world record holder, ex-women's, you know, ex-world champion, and all this, all this amazing stuff. She's just absolutely amazing person, and she's helped me out a lot with kind of the mental side of things, and so, which actually I think is just as important as learning all the specifics and competitions, like not putting yourself anywhere where you can be be exposed and used. So yeah, when it comes down to
Flying for me, I think most of it is in my head, so if I'm having a good day, I'm relaxed, I'll fly a lot better than if I'm kind of a little bit worked up. There's something niggling on my mind, yeah? So if you, if you put yourself in a good head spell, good head space, you've got, yeah, a clear head. I think that's really the days where I fly, I fly the best, and is
There is, there anything you do, you know, kind of consciously, like, in preparation, you know, for a given day to get more in that head space, you know, kind of work towards that more flow state, yeah?
It's actually really funny; it just reminded me. So every day on the in the morning of the Europeans, we would me at the British team and everyone in the team would come together and we'd do do some yoga and also some. It sounds, it sounds pretty out there, but we'd kind of sit outside our rooms. We had all our rooms kind of aligned in our hotel; we'd come outside, bring a little mat, do loads of stretches, and then right at the end, we'd have a little meditation session. So we would sit down, not think about it anything, just pretty much clear in our minds. We had a few little techniques which
Malin Love and Jess Cox were taking us through, and I think stuff like that is actually really helpful. It sounds like it'd have no, no connection in any way; it's like yoga and paragliding, but I think it was something that was really enjoyable. It got you feeling fresh, awake in the morning, and it just kind of led on to having good days.
That's great. Were you still—were you guys as a team analysing tracks after the races, like after the at the end of the day too? Or is that just too much? There's not enough time for that.
There wasn't a huge amount of time for that, and the Europeans, I think some days we had—well, we had days where we would come back and it was quite late, so we wouldn't really have the time. But yeah, it was pretty much just the morning preparations would be really chilled, so and then we'd go eat breakfast together. And yeah, I think yeah, actually the company as well, the company throughout the throughout that competition, and the Brits was just absolutely lovely. The people that were with the attitude, the mentality, everything was just absolutely perfect. They just couldn't have been asked, couldn't have asked for any better company at all. It was just really perfect.
Will there, will there be like a, like a team leader kind of thing? It's something like the Europeans, or does that only happen in the world?
I'm not too sure. I think this year we... there was a complication with our team leader, so he couldn't, couldn't make it. But usually there is... just this year we were a bit unlucky, yeah? So next year we have, we have Jocky Sanderson, which should be awesome for the world amazing, yeah? He's great. We'll be
just laughing the whole time. The other thing, whose contribution was that? Who decided to to bring that to the full, the meditation and the yoga, and what was the, yeah?
In no way, it wasn't. It wasn't official at all; it was just pretty much Jess. Jess would go in the morning and she'd do some yoga, and then we all kind of—we all saw and we all just wanted to join in. And then Marlon contributed with the some of the techniques with the kind of meditation, and yeah, so half an hour at 7:30 until 8:30, we would whack on some whale music and just completely chill out, stretch it, and yeah, get ourselves in the right headspace. It was perfect.
that sounds amazing
We're just chasing it, flying, flying, and getting in that flow, and it's just once you're there, it's absolutely, it's such an amazing feeling just being there with all of your friends, flying together, flying together, all thinking the same. It's just, yeah, I've
Been listening to a lot of podcasts recently on, you know, on risks and, you know, like the wingsuit jumpers take, for example, base jumpers and that kind of thing where the odds are just really bad and, and yet, you know, that it really is this, you know, this flow state that we chase and this ability to, to really be in the now and be incredibly present is, is a very special thing. It's not something that a lot of people, something that everybody has experienced sometime in their life, whether that be in business and corporate and driving. You know, there's a lot of different ways you can, you can get there, often just by mistake or as paragliding, you get there very often, not by mistake.
It just takes you there and, and it's, it's, you know, it's one of the most powerful drugs there is and so it's no question. I mean, there's no, there's no question why we, why we do it, why we go there because it's, it's a powerful drug and it's, it's Like, you've used the word "addiction" a few times, and it truly is so. It's, yeah, it's an interesting line we walk, though, and it's been—it's been—it's been something that I've been thinking about a lot, and I don't know that any of us really have it sorted in a sense. It's just more the—the downside is certainly down.
It's, it's an amazing sport. It's just, it has obviously, it's downsides. I'm
Curious, is there—is this something you guys talk about as a family much? With your dad, with your mom, you know, is she concerned about you guys? Or it's quite interesting. My, my girlfriend Maddie is, you know, I mean, I think she's concerned in a way that you would just normally be concerned, but she's not really that worried about me, you know? And she, she finds that, you know, she, I think that I have her convinced, and I am convinced of this myself, that it's not really a dangerous sport. I mean, you can participate for a lifetime and not get hurt; you just have to be super mindful every single time you fly that, you know, this could be, you know, this is the most important flight of my life right now, this one that
I take and I
think if you have that kind of mindfulness about it, that there are no, just you got to pay attention
Yeah, I think the people that surround you do pick up on that. So, if you act reckless, there's probably more, more reasons to be concerned, and obviously Maddie's picked up on you.
recognising that the flight is the flight that you're flying at the moment is the most important in your life, that's why you have to concentrate 100% of your your bandwidth on just flying and being safe and having fun, and as long as you're you're doing it, doing it right, I think, yeah, you're right, it's not
It's not the most dangerous sport in the world. I think you've probably got more, like, you're probably more likely to get hit by a car or, you know, you know, have an accident like tripping over and hurting yourself than paragliding, yeah.
Theo, great stuff, man. I really appreciate it. And that's—that's a—that's a—that's a good place to end, actually. You know what? Before we end, I do have one more question for you. When you think back on your five years of flying—god damn, I can't believe you won those two comps, that's so epic. So, when you think back to these—these five years, you know what's—what's just—what comes to your—what comes to mind the most precious moment you've had in the sky?
I think it's just, yeah, all of it. But the, I think the most precious is just there's no one moment, it's kind of just whenever you're, you're in the sky and you're just looking across and you can see your friends smiling and you're all just doing the same thing. I think it is a really social sport for me. It's just absolutely, yeah, the social bit is one of the most important, I think. Just, I love that, I love flying with my friends and having a good time and then getting on the floor and talking about all the, the shit that went up, that happened in the sky. Yeah, awesome. That's what I love.
the paradribble. I can't say Maddie enjoys that very much, but I sure like it.
Yeah, I do feel sorry for the people that are around us, you know? Like, we are just talking rubbish half the time.
We are, that's true. That's true. Did you see that? Did you see that? And you're just like, "Yeah, exactly."
that's good Theo
Thanks, I really appreciate it. It's—it was so cool to watch me, and I—I am an ex-contest junkie, and I, you know, I watch—I watch these things because I'm—I'm envious. I wish I could be there, and it was just so cool to like, "Whoa, I know that dude. What's going on here?" And that was—that was just really exciting then to watch again. In the British, it's like, "My god, he's having—he's having one!" So again, congratulations. Terrific to watch. Good luck at the—at the Superfinal and whatever you decide to do with the rest of this year. And yeah, I hope to see you in the X-Alps someday. That'd be a blast. But yeah, thanks for—thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I really appreciate it. Yeah.
Thank you, I've really enjoyed this. It's been really fun. I appreciate it. Thanks, Gavin. Cool.
man talk soon
I hope you enjoyed that. Great to sit down with Theo and talk about those wins in Europe, and see what the future holds for him. As always, all we ask for is a buck a show. This is a listener supported podcast, and there's been a ton of people supporting lately, so I guess that that kind of opener I gave a few episodes back, just about why we've done it that way and why we decided to not use sponsors and advertising and stuff, as that hit home a little bit. So, really, thank you all for reaching out and supporting that. So, we've got these bonus shows that are coming up here shortly on the on the the Patreon, if you support via Patreon, and that's patreon.com forward slash cloudbasemayhem. You'll find the links on that for the website cloudbasemayhem.com.
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