Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloud Base Mayhem. Last week, I was out at the rat race in Oregon and got to witness something pretty special. A good friend of mine, Nick Greece, who we've had on the show before, just dominated. We had seven out of seven days, a bunch of really good tasks, some of them pretty tough, not what I would call classic conditions. We're dealing with quite a bit of wind and stuff, so it was certainly a challenge, but also a ton of fun. And it's hard to stay on top for seven days, but that's what Nick did, and he won with grace and style. And so I invited Nick to come back onto the show because he literally went from zero to hero here. In the PWC down in Brazil a month ago, he got dead last, which is pretty hard to do, but he did.
He got dead last after the Pan Ams down there, which he was also dominating early and then had a couple bad days and fell off there. And so we talk about headspace. We talk about some of the—he saw a really terrifically bad accident flying in Kenya with Cedar Wright back in January, February, I believe. And so he was dealing with some PTSD that I think many of us have dealt with in our sport, unfortunately. So, yeah, we talk about headspace and psychology and strategy and discipline. And this was basically, you know, as we kind of get into the comp scene in the Northern Hemisphere summer, I thought it would be a really timely thing. I thought it would be a really timely time to talk to Nick about comps. He's been doing it almost 20 years. He got into it in a very special, funny, unique way, which we covered a little bit on the first show with him that couple years ago, but we get into it again on this one.
And, yeah, I just think you're really going to enjoy this. Also, a little bit of housekeeping before we get into the show. USHPA and I and Nick, we've all been working on this insurance thing, and Nick talks about it a little bit at the end of the show. But we've come up with what we think is kind of the best solution through Global Rescue. And IMG, that doesn't have any exclusions for our sport, we're still working with them on competitions and some other stuff. So we'll get back to you on that. But if you are traveling and you'll be more than 100 miles from home, these are great solutions. You can find out more on my website, cloudbasemaham.com. Just do a search for insurance. You can see that there are links to it, but there will soon be links through USHPA, if you're an USHPA member, that will get you a discount and some other good stuff.
So really psyched on that. We've been working on that for months and months and months, and it's nice to have kind of a one-stop solution that is available now and will soon, we hope, also have competitions covered. So exciting news there. What else? A good friend of mine, Evan Bouchier, has a couple of friends who broke away from Black Diamond a little bit ago, and they're making these really cool gloves. He was selling them at Rat Race. They're direct, you know, so they're kind of cut out the middleman. So they're super reasonable and really worth it. They're really well made. They're called Truck Gloves. You can find them on truckgloves.com. And they're offering a 10 % discount to our listeners right now. And they've got mitts. They've got every kind of range. And they're actually going to be coming out with a paragliding-specific glove, but I used them at the race.
They're awesome. I wouldn't call them, you know, a full winter glove or spring glove. You know, they're more, you know, for racing or for when it's not super, super cold, but, you know, really well put together, great feel, really comfortable. And you can just order them direct. And if you go to their website, truckgloves.com right now, and put in the discount code cloudbasemayhem, two separate words, then you'll get 10 % off. Again, that code is cloudbasemayhem. And the website is truckgloves.com. One other bit of housekeeping, cloudbasemayhem.com. If you go to that website, you can see our store. I've got some killer new women's shirts, a new color from Patagonia. These are all organic, fair trade, you know, classic Patagonia. Plenty of stuff. Lasts forever. It's got our Cloudbase Mayhem logo and stuff on the back.
And then our great hats by Annika Hurton, her recaps, which were a big hit out at the rat race. These are the coolest trucker hats ever. So really psyched to be sporting those and a great way for you to support the show. And let's get into it. Without further delay, please enjoy this very cool talk with my good friend, Nick Greece.
Nick, awesome to have you back on the show. It was so fun racing around the skies with you. Last week at the rat race, seven out of seven days. That was pretty incredible. And I appreciate you taking the time out. I understand you're on a little road trip or traveling right now, but sounds pretty good in your car. And just psyched to sit down and talk to you about going from zero to hero. You've had quite a run in the competition scene lately down in the PWC and now just scoring at the rat race. So congratulations, and I can't wait to talk about it.
Yeah, it's been a journey. I think a full spectrum result.
Yeah, I'll say so. Before we get into these last couple comps, because I want to talk kind of big picture comps and psychology and all the stuff. And you've also been through some kind of hairy stuff this year. But before that, we talked about this a little bit in the first podcast, and people can listen to that to get a refresher. But take me back, I think, almost 20 years now to your kind of first comp. How did you get into comps? Because it's quite a funny story. And then we can fast forward to the rat race.
Yeah, so I
started flying in 2001 and quickly became obsessed, just full obsession. That's people kind of sometimes, oh, well, you seem to be decent at this sport. How did you get so good? And I think Gladwell's 10,000-hour rule kicks in with a lot of us. And I know, Gavin, you're similar. I've witnessed your obsession. And now we have some other people that call it Skycracker, which is probably fitting.
After getting into it and flying a bunch, I realized, wow, these competitions seem like the best money I can spend to get any kind of help or mentoring I could find. 20 years ago, it was really hard to find mentors. I don't know if it's because they were few and far between or people were reticent to share or what. But I just remember having a hell of a time finding a mentor or anybody that would tell me anything. And so competition seemed like the way forward. So I actually ended up traveling for a year with my paraglider at some point. I decided that because of watching Felix Volk in cross country jump off a dam in his hang glider and then Bob Drury's article in cross country about this ridge, Zagora, in Morocco that I actually was just playing marbles, which I thought I was being really cool and flying paragliders.
But actually, I was just playing marbles and that I needed to go get some. So I sold all my possessions and traveled for a year flying. And during that time, I ended up stumbling kind of onto a World Cup in Aftonau, Austria. And these are the best and the brightest of paragliding, Bruce Goldsmith and Norman Losh and a bunch of big stars. But I didn't have any money. So I decided instead of entering, which I couldn't anyway. But I did. I just would sneak into the meals, first of all, to get food. And then I would sneak up to kind of ask, oh, what turn point are you going to, you know, what are your turn points today? And someone would tell me and then I'd hike up to one and just punch into it, into the race as soon as I would see the field coming.
And so that was kind of the first comp, I guess, that I didn't enter but was at. Eventually, I got caught by the organization because you needed to go up a lift one day because they weren't taking buses. I was sneaking on the buses, too, to get to a launch sometimes. And then, you know, they're like, oh, well, today, you know, you have to take a lift. So we have to pay for a lift. So every name has to be checked off. So I went and I figured out who wasn't at the race but was signed up. And the only person I could find was Jin, the famous Jin Song. And so I was like, oh, you know, let's try it. So, you know, they got up to the gate to go into the lift, like name. And I'm like, Jin Seok Song.
And they just looked at me like I was, you know, a crazy person. I thought it was worth a go, you know. I guess I didn't quite realize how famous he was at that time. I was still relatively new to paragliding. And that I don't look Asian, in fact. So that also, I think, played into it.
Not even a little bit. But anyway,
they allowed me to be a wind dummy. They're like, no, you can come because you're crazy, but we need a wind dummy. So anyway, I did that. So that was kind of how it started. And actually, there's a guy, Urs Schoenauer. I remember the World Cup then was kind of a hippie scene. It was different than now. It was much more, I think, continental. And people would just follow the whole thing. You know, Martin Orlick and Urs Schoenauer, Andy Berenstiel, these names, you know, would follow the whole thing in their vans all summer. And it was just, you know, it was kind of more of a tour that people could just drive to. So Urs Schoenauer was... I remember to this day was, you know, he was amazed at what I was doing. He's like, one day you should do the World Cups, you know. So he's actually coming in in a week, and I'm going to show him around the U.S.
And then we're going to go to Chelan. So it would be cool to, you know, see him again.
The magic to me of something like the rat race is it's kind of solved this mentoring problem. You know, you've got the sprint and the clinic and then the race. And, you know, every day at this race last week, you got, you know, some of the pilots together and gave these amazing talks. With all kinds of advice, you know. So it's, you know, kind of solving that problem to an extent of the mentoring thing. But what would you say to the listeners of the show that are maybe thinking about doing their first comp or maybe nervous about comps? Have you learned over all these years, are comps good for flying? Are they a good strategy? Are they a good thing to get into? Any warnings maybe?
Yeah, look, you know, I have mixed feelings about competitions for sure. I think comps are... Fantastic learning opportunities. I think, you know, when I first... By the time I was doing comps, I could, you know, do helicopters. I could stall my glider. I could, you know, I was flying 30 to 50-mile cross country flights. So I think that getting into competition flying at the right time is very important. I think not, you know, not... And it depends on the competition. There's great, you know, the Chabra Open or Ozone puts on some, you know, entry-level competitions. The rat race has a sprint. There's entry-level competitions. Those would be great earlier. But full-on competition, I think you should be very comfortable, you know, flying, launching, and landing anywhere.
Because, you know, as we say, it's a cross country competition. So you're still... The first thing we're doing is flying cross country. And the cross country, the skills to me are launch..
. To
be able to launch safely in any condition and be able to land safely in very, you know, in almost any landing field. And so because, right, those are the two times that it actually matters..
. In
terms of, you know, how close to Earth you are. So as long as you can do those things, I think competitions are fantastic places to learn. And again, you know, at competitions, I always remind people to, you know, be hard on yourself. There's nothing wrong with being hard on yourself. But don't beat yourself up. And that means there's plenty of lessons to be learned. Take the lessons as they come. You know, process them. Talk with more experienced pilots. And then once you process the information, you let it go. And that's where you don't beat yourself up. And so I think that's, you know, the best way. But, you know, for $500... Well, in the U.S., they're a lot. But $500 a week, you get a full cross country clinic. You know, and, you know, when you land, you know, look at your track. Look how you did. If you have questions during it, find someone who did it successfully.
Process it with them. You know, don't just, you know, go, oh, that was cool, and go grab a beer. And then, you know, on to the social part of our sport. You know, utilize it for what it is, you know, is this learning opportunity. Because there will be plenty of time for the social... Yeah. But, you know, I did find it interesting, even at the rat race. We do lectures every day on launch. You know, and I try to challenge people that we're not just going to, you know, regurgitate to you the platitudes and bumper stickers, like, you know, you can't win a comp on the first day, but you can lose it. We're going to try to, you know, or, you know, when in doubt, whip it out, whatever. You're... We're trying to ask people questions from the days they had, and by the last day, no one had a single question. You know? Yeah. Of interesting, you know, we're like really, okay, you guys are all because I don't see many of you in goal, you know?
Um, but, but, but they, you know, it's kind of funny, it's so maybe people were maxed out. I mean, seven days is a long time, and they were, they were non-traditional, uh, conditions. They weren't classically good conditions, um, and so, uh, maybe everybody was tired, and you know, and all that. But I, I think what happens is that we have a tremendous mixture of a sport and aviation. And I think a lot of times the sport social part takes over where aviation should be, in the sense that you know, like in this case, people should. If I were somebody in that position, and when you look, when I look back on my earlier times in my progression, I have my log books and every after every flight, as soon as I would land, I would fill in all the things I did well and all the things I did poorly, um, and therefore if I went to launch and somebody, a panel of people like
You know, um, Jared Anderson were there. I would have my list written down. Oh, I have a question, you know? And so I did find it interesting that, you know, like I said, by the end, and I think it's because, uh, sometimes the sport takes over, um, and whereas people in my opinion should be focusing more on aviation, what
About the like, the let's, let's talk a little bit about fast forward to your last couple months. Um, you know, you went down to the pan ams, you crushed the first couple days.
Uh, and and then immediately went to the PWC, and and I'm not making fun of you, but that you got dead last, that was pretty epic. Uh, that that's hard to do, and uh, it's really hard to do, that's really hard to do. So I and then and then you came back to the rad race and just dominated. And so I mean, take me through that whole, you know, the—we always talk about this, you know, the paragliding has the ups and downs, just like we climb and we sink in a paraglider, it's the same in your head. Um, and and I know that you're intimate with the paraglider, those kind of things. What, what are you, you know, take me through that whole, how did you come back from that? And what happened? And what, and how did you get lost?
Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is, yeah, it's, it's an interesting tale. I mean, I look paragliding is, you know, I call her the most, you know, um, manic temptress ever, um, in the sense that, you know, the highs are incredibly high and the lows are often very low, you know? Austin, all the ultimate low, uh, for some, uh, so I basically, for me, it's, you know, it's, you know, um, we ebb and flow and I, I've had just health issues actually over the past three years, um, in terms of my body falling apart, you know, I call it running out of talent, but, um, you know, basically my back went out, uh, at the Colombian World Championships and I had a back surgery. I came back from that and then crashed, uh, you know, basically fell over running, which is pretty funny, and tore and and hurt my shoulder, uh, and so that's the, anyway, so low level you know, body stuff, but then, uh, you know, basically in—and when did we go?
In December, I went to Kenya. There was a fatality there that you know of, a um, a tandem fatality, and so, um, we were dealing, you know, we had to deal with the body recoveries, uh, and and you know, it's ultimately, you know, like I said, it was just a horrible, tragic, you know, experience. And and part of paragliding, that's always been, you know, I've I've always dealt with rescues or had to deal, but I've, I've luckily in 20 years, this is the first full body recovery that that I've had to help perform. Um, so you know, basically we came back from that and and I had PTSD. I'm sure everybody who dealt with it, you know, and obviously the ultimate sacrifice was by the pilots. I'm not, you know, and that, and that's part of PTSD, though, um, is that, you know, the whole time like, well, but I'm alive and, and it's, and so why I shouldn't I have no business complaining about anything, and so I think in paragliding, I think that's something that all of us deal with, um, to some extent, uh, unfortunately, uh, over and over, and I think, you know, I luckily I was able to talk to some people that gave me some really good advice, uh, about that, you know.
And like I said, I, I still, the, the, the ultimate sorrow is, is for the pilot and the passenger, and, and, and I still, uh, think about them and and and hope you know I never see that again, but but you know for
And and dealing with it, um, you know, it took me a few months to even, you know, talk about it. And then, uh, you know, once we started talking about it, I was told, given some important information, to find other people who've experienced this and talk with them about it, and talk candidly, and and and don't be afraid to talk about it. And so for me, that was, that was a huge thing that I needed to in order for me to, you know, and it wasn't that, uh, you know, flying is in the in proportion to to life is obviously not, not bad for me, and I think that's a big part of it, and I think that's very high on that, that that scale. But in terms of me getting back in the sky, I was flying and I was flying fine, I was flying about, you know, the same, but I was, I had my head in the sand, so I was flying with kind of part with with part that part cordoned off and and pretty much just, you know, moving forward just with the mechanical parts of it, but not really, you know, kind of not really enjoying it, uh, tremendously was
it something like you felt like you you you just needed to go do because you're a pilot and you weren't then you're then you'd flying and be like, what the hell am I doing? Why am I doing this? Or can you describe that more?
Yeah, yeah, it's tough. Um, yeah, I mean, it's for me. I, when things like that happen, like the next day, I put my head in the sand. I flew 230 kilometer triangle or something. It flying can help me escape that, but ultimately those things start to build up inside and and in terms of performance, I think it was really, that was the first step of of me shutting down and really needing to kind of reprocess all these things and things and and uh you
know, I, I've, I've gone through these, these times where, you know, I feel like, oh, the weather, the forecast is good, I should go fly because I'm a pilot and I should be training and I should be practicing, and then I go fly and I'm like, what am I doing? You know, I'm just, I'm not even, I'm not enjoying it. I'm scared, or, you know, I, yeah, you know, we, we go through these ebbs and flows like you've talked about, but is that, is that, is that tied into the PSD that you had, or were you, kind of, was that, am I reading it right? Is that what you were kind of doing, or was it more
Just ignoring the PD, PTSD, like the next day you just ignored it, head in the sand, just went
Flying, yeah, and the sand, but no, I mean Gavin, that's an incredibly astute point, and that—that all plays into this because it's basically about—it's about, you know, that happens to me, yes. That—that not from this particular occurrence, but I—that has happened to me over the last 20 years, especially people like you, myself, like we've—now on my career is paragliding, yeah. Um, and you know, sometimes I—you know, I called Bill Belcourt after the third thing, which I'll—you know, that in this list of this year of horrible things to happen around me, uh, and—and kind of, you know, saying like, I don't know if I can continue, I don't know why I do this, I don't know if I can continue to do this, uh, you know, um, I love flying, but I—I love my family, I love life, I love mountain, you know, I love being on this planet. And—and I think a lot of us deal with that, or—or don't, you know, which is the head in the sand technique, um.
But I think that we all, you know, a lot of us who are—who have been in the sand technique have been in the sand technique for quite a while, um, now. And—and you know, it starts to add up, uh, in terms of, wow, this is—you know, there—there is, we know it's risky, we're not—you know, we're not deluded, we know, um, that it can be dangerous. Um, and—and it always has been worth it to me, the amount of joy, the highs, you know, we're worth the lows. But at some point, you know, when things keep piling up on us, and I—and I've seen this with a lot of our friends over the years, that we start to really try to see like the balances don't seem like they're—you know, tipped, the lows seem to—you know, are outweighing the highs, it gets more difficult.
to rationalize
Yeah, and I mean, you just had a kid. I mean, I, I imagine that, you know, that it would be a factor to me as well, you know, whereas when I was a single guy, uh, in Jackson, there was times before Spots and and Delormes, I could care less. I was like, I'm fine. I was missing for two days once, um, and I would fly over the Absarokas with no tracking, you know, and I was thinking, "Wow, the search pattern is going to be like four thousand square miles, you know, I'm missing, um, and you know there's no—we had no Delormes, no Spots, and and I could care less." But, you know, as I've aged, right, I mean, uh, a, I didn't think I would live this long. Otherwise, I probably would have done more yoga, uh, and be, uh, you know, uh, we just get a little smarter, right? Like, that is where and more wise, and so it gets harder when these, you know, incidents are up front personal, um, to rationalize why we're doing it and and obviously to perform well in any, you know, to take it to performance where, which is, I know, it's a stretch and a weird, you know, connection, but you need to be centered.
And so that was, you know, this is like, you know, kind of the first block in the in the uncentering for me
Before we, before we go from there, can you tell me about the advice? You said you got some really good advice, and maybe just, you know, tell us also, what is PTSD in this situation? Like, describe...
Yeah, post-traumatic, post-traumatic stress disorder, so for you know, and and you can, everybody should look this up. Um, and you know, obviously we come from America, uh, Gavin and I, and so because we're such a worry population, we—this is a common phrase in our culture, um, because we have our all our poor soldiers returning, a lot of them have PTSD, and basically it's, uh, you know, the the advice I got, like I said, was to talk to, go find, you know, find other people who have been in the same similar situation and talk about all the details, all the things that are tripping you up, you know, to to to to just talk constantly about it with them, and to and also to acknowledge it and to accept it and give it space in your in your life, so that you can then, you know, try to climb over it, and you will always live with these experiences, uh, and and that's just the way it is, um, but you can, you know, climb over that and and move forward and and come to some peace and understanding about it.
I think I can within within myself with the context, but you know, it's it's almost like, um... I see it almost like cancer, uh, in the sense that these things will always be a part of you, and there, there could be a recurrence at any time, you know, when you see something else that will trigger this. So it's also acknowledging that, like I said, just being open to it and understanding and, and, uh, and and dealing with it, and not just putting your head in the sand. And so that's those are those that's my advice, but you know, that's from an amateur, uh, you know, no
but I like that. I mean, and then, were you—was your head still in the sand when you went to Brazil, or were you more kind of—had you had the talks with Belcourt and, well,
No, no, so there I was, still—this is before I needed, uh, old Yoda, um, but, uh, so yeah, this, I, you know, I was kind of back to, you know, I've been dealt with it, I processed it, um, you know, my, my, my close people had to kind of help me take the brunt of it, uh, and then, um, and then we're, you know, on to Brazil, and I was feeling good and happy. I was with my friends in the first few days, uh, you went, went well, I got second, and then, you know, someone, someone died, you know, uh, during the comp, um, a Brazilian pilot, and so again, you start to, and I didn't see it, I wasn't a part of it, um, I was well past there, I didn't even know what happened when I, you know, I came into land, but again, you like I said, that balance those scales, right?
We start to eye them up again, and then evaluating, what are we doing, you know, why are we doing this, um, and then I, you know, I, I had another good day, but I could definitely, that was a good day, and then I was like, oh my god, I'm going to do this another, that was kind of a chink in the armor, you know, and then I just kind of had a couple bad days, but I did have one of the most adventurous days, uh, while I was there, which included a four-hour hike where I went a mile and a half, um, you know, yeah, and I was hiking the entire time, so yeah, like belly, I lost a lot of my dignity in, in Brazil, uh, that trip, um, including belly crawling for an hour, you know, over reeds, uh, you know, pulling my glider behind me, because otherwise it would sink me up to my chest in water. You're just in a massive swamp.
or Reed Swamp or something, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I was like, I hope there's not snakes. Um, I'm like, I'm gonna die if I get bit by something poisonous. There's no one down, but I won't be able to get out of here. But, uh, anyway, so that didn't go well. And then, uh, and then basically, uh, my, um, my girlfriend came to Brazil. We went traveling. Uh, I got really drunk the last night celebrating our trip and just slept all night, really funny on my shoulder. My shoulder's been hurting me for a long time, and I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die." Years, uh, and so by the time I got to the World Cup, it hurt, you know? Just sitting there, I couldn't, I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't, you know, any of that. And I just started, you know, basically when, when you're in pain like that, that for me, and I've experienced it once before with my back, chronic pain, and paragliding for me mean no patience.
So anytime, you know, you kind of, you're like, well, just forget it, I'm just gonna go. If you know you're like, I'm high enough, I'm gonna go. Um, so That, and then there's no discipline, I, no discipline, it goes out the window because you just want the day to be over, you want the pain to end, you know? Yeah, but also, I mean, I'm not going to blame it all on that. I also was just not having a good competition, and that was, I mean, there were some classic, you know, moments of bad decision mixed with, you know, kind of bad luck where I'd, you know, I'd fly to a giant, you know, in Brazil, there'll be thermals marked by birds that go thousands of feet high. I'd fly to that thermal and I'd fly to a giant and I'd fly to a 2,000 feet of birds climbing, you know, and they'd all fly away together, you know? Or, you know, stuff like that where you're like, "What the?" Yeah, good timing, so I'd land.
Yeah, yeah, I'm like, "All right," because I didn't have like this when I wasn't high, and then I'd be like, "Boom, boom, boom, boom, landing." Um, uh, and then, you know, Mickey Siegel actually said a funny thing to me too. He's like, "Now, when I see you, Nick, I know to go the opposite direction," um, because there is a thing, I think, with This happened to another guy, a French pilot wants it. It's just that sometimes when you're doing really bad, it's, it's like, it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy, yeah.
Yeah, you're—you're not the guy to bet on at the craps table, no.
Yeah, it's like you're a cooler, right? Um, and and so that, that was kind of where I was, and so it just keeps getting, it kept getting worse and worse. And then, you know, it's like I just don't care, I just want to land by a road. Uh, if I was going to land, um, the funny, you know, a couple funny things was, you know, Torsten said he'd never searched the bottom of the list, you know, to see, you know, he would, he would look for his result at the top because he was like in the top three. And then he's like, and then I would scroll all the way to the bottom to see if you made it, you know, if you did it, you know. And I'm like, yeah, I did it, I last place because there was, there was a French girl who had like broken her foot or something and didn't fly for three days, uh, and because of FTB, she beat me in the end, you know. But it was close right up to the last day, you know, it was me and her fighting for last, um, but she, she, yeah, she, I persevered, you know, I don't think, you know, she could quite, you know, mess with my team, my team loser status, um, but yeah, so that, you know, but I stayed and and, you know, you stay and celebrate the winner and, you know, huge congratulations to Michael Cofer who flying out that, that's a tricky place to fly and he flew consistently and crushed it and it was awesome to be there and party with him and celebrate, um, and I got a great photo that, you know, with he and I, uh, you know, so it's if you're not first, you're last, kind of bookends of pilots for the PWC in Brazil, so
It seems to me like, um, you know, the World Cup's kind of one thing because of the shoulder and and, uh, just, you know, at some point there was probably just this like, "fuck it," you know, and, uh, but with the with the Pan Ams, you know, two days crushing, so I mean, because this has happened to me and I and I and I'm I try to do like you, I try to write it down and log it and try to figure it out, and my problem is always discipline. Um, but you know, when you go from, you know, hero to you, you really in the Pan Ams, you kind of had that one from from my perspective, you you kind of had you just had to fly discipline and you would have wanted more, you know, or you would have done pretty well. Was that was that a mental thing, or was it just were you pushing too hard? Were you was it was there something you could identify that was like, "Yeah, I I blew that," or was it just paragliding and it just luck?
No,
I blew that. That's the biggest lead I've ever blown, um, I mean with FTV, I just had to come in decent one day and I think I would have won, right? Um, but yeah, I don't know, I don't know. That's the biggest lead I've ever blown, but you know, I haven't been racing in the last couple years. Um, I think it was discipline. I also think my shoulder was starting to hurt, so I got, I got home and I did eventually. I was like, "Man, this shoulder." I got an MRI and I have a torn part of my shoulder, um, and it needs surgery. It's fully torn, and if I take care of it and do all the things that need to do, it's usable. You know that? And that's the thing at Rat Race, I was taking 12 ibuprofen a day, um, which the doctor said is okay, and then putting some, uh, this hemp oil on it top, um, and, and that was really helpful. So, but the point is, there, there was a real injury.
Um, I think that was, I, I think I just blew it, but it, you know, at the Pan Am's, um, in terms of I made really poor decisions. I started flying a little bit desperate. I started flying, um, you know, not, not good tactically, not a good tactical flying decision. The first two days I flew great tactically, and no matter what, you can't, you can't, you know, out-maneuver, you know, the other pilots, uh, with bad decisions, uh, so I, you know, but I also think it was also just like I said, the balance was starting to creep again in terms of me being, I really wasn't having a ton of fun. I wasn't happy up there, you know, I was kind of, it just was, you know, it started becoming kind of annoying to, to, to go to launch, you know, uh, we couldn't get to launch a bunch of the days, I think.
Also, I just let a bunch of external factors influence, you know, that's the thing. It's all about just staying calm and enjoying the process. Um, can't get to launch, it's cool, you know, uh, if it's, if it's, you know, you think, "Oh, well, we may not fly today," always be prepared to fly today, uh, you know, always be positive. And I think for me, that's the number one, number one thing. And then, and you know, if you're positive, you're always prepared to fly. You're flying as decently tactically, you're going to make some mistakes. That's all you can do. And then it's just you, uh, you know, versus the, the course, versus you, versus the pilot, you know? And I think if you're racing the course, that's the, that's the way forward. You're not racing the pilots, they're there to help you. That's, um, and, and, and If and if you can, if you can do that, you usually come out pretty good, so
Before we started recording, you, you had some really good thoughts on like the team loser thing, you know, like how do you, how do you go from, yeah, the strategy of flying the course, but also, uh, you know, you were talking about like, like day one at the rat race, you know, you're leading, uh, you know, you're with the lead gaggle and, and, uh, can you remember what happened the first day or second day? Anyway, you, you had one of the days where you didn't make it and the second day, sorry.
Oh no, the second day I got dropped, but I was able. So, yeah, so I think I know where you're going. So, I mean, one thing, we have this thing called Team Loser in America, and there's a—there's a Facebook page which is hysterical, you guys should all check it out. Um, but you know, we—we basically we had this group of people that we—you know, we were losers. Um, we had come from a, you know, long tradition of probably add and getting ahead of ourselves and early age that generally we were going to fuck up at some point and would need to apologize or, uh, you know, we just—they, you know, not be the—we weren't true winners. And I—and I think that it's a really funny philosophical kind of group. So, there's winners and losers, right? And you can see, like, if you ask somebody like, "Hey, you want to be on Team Loser?" and they're a real winner, they can't. That—you can see their eyes start to twitch, um, because they don't identify as a loser.
They're real winners, you know? They're the go-getters, they're the doers, they're the—you know, the—they're best and the brightest, and they went to an Ivy League, you know, and they've always been winning. Um, but a loser, like, you know, myself and a group of us, um, we—I think we failed a lot more and we're able, and so therefore had to pick ourselves up more, right? Um, and I think that—that comes into play in competition paragliding again. I—I think paragliding is the perfect mixture for add, kind of, you know, individuals to a certain level of add. Um, and—and this is another example of how it benefits us to have—have been losers for before we started paragliding. Um, so that, you know, we're disappointed and bummed as much as anyone if we bomb out, but we can also go, "All right, well, you know, tomorrow's a new day.
You know, let's—let's see what—what goes on." Um, and—and now with FTV, we've seen, you know, over and over that if you just keep racing the course as well as you possibly can, all you can do is as good as you can anyway. You know, you can't—you know, that's maybe Facebook's bringing us down a bad road that way. We're always trying to do as good as we keep up with the Joneses, right? Yeah, you know, we're—but really, all we can do is as well as each of us can. Um, and so as long as you do that and keep moving forward, you'll usually end up in a good spot. So, you know, that's—that I think being a loser inevitably will help you win in paragliding, so
Did you do anything between, you know, we we've had a terrifically bad spring of flying? All of us all over the west has just been brutal, you know. There's a day here or there at best, and so I know, uh, because I watch XC find like a hawk, then you
Know, you've had a couple with Josh and, but between the World Cup and Rat Race, none of us got really that much time. And so, yeah, did you do—did you do anything? Did you? Yeah, exactly. Did you, like, mentally, did you do anything? I mean, how did—how did you just, you know, to me, you showed up and you were like, "I got this." What did that—did that just happen? Well,
For me, it was all about my... my shoulder. It was just about taking beings, you know? Yeah, I just had to... I said the discomfort. And so, look, your shoulder—your shoulder in quotes—can be different things, but something that's making you uncomfortable, whether it's mentally, whether it's, uh, you know, your equipment, whether it's the conditions, whatever is making you uncomfortable, that needs to be identified and addressed for you to perform, right? We always joke about the beta blockers and the Swiss team, you know, they're so... they're so calm and they're able to... and but that is truly, that's it. So whatever your shoulder is, we use the shoulder as a, you know, this ambiguous, um, you know, I guess a heel is what we say in American English. Whatever your heel is, your Achilles, um, that is what needs to be addressed. So for me, I needed to address my shoulder, um, in terms of I just had to get it to a place where I could actually fly without pain.
And so even on the practice day, I only flew for an hour because I was worried, like, I don't want to use up my shoulder. Or like, you know, I would launch it late too each day. If the... if the cylinder was right over launch, I would wait 45 minutes, um, because I was like, I don't want to use up my shoulder because I was like, well, that's 45 minutes, I don't have to fly with my shoulder, you know? And it worked. My shoulder felt great. And... and... and then as well, I just tried to have fun, you know? That it's... it... that was for me was the... it's the, you know, we have our things, but for me, if I'm having fun, you know, then everything else falls into place, um. And so I just try to have fun and enjoy my time there, uh, with you and with all the other pilots that I get to, you know, you when we fly up. I was just so psyched to be flying with my friends and... and also just be flying because we...
between Brazil and, but you know, for after Brazil, it took me six weeks to get my shoulder not to be just inflamed as all hell. And so, you know, that—that also is why I didn't fly, because I just needed to rest it. Tell
me about some, some of the specific things that you remember doing that, you know, it maybe afterwards you went, "Yeah, that really paid off." Um, you know, the strategy, tactics, or, you know, I, God forbid, I should compare our sport to golf, but you know, in terms of mentally, uh, and I'm not a golfer, but my dad was, my sister was, and you know, they always talk about, you know, five hours a day for five days is really hard to keep your shit together. You know, just one shot is all it takes to blow your whole comp. And paragliding with FDV, it's maybe not that harsh, but it's, you know, it's kind of like that. It's really, you know, once we step off the mountain, it really is almost all mental. Um, you know, in these long comps like Rat Race, where it's seven days, for sure there's some physical component to it. But what did you, you know, after the first couple days, you're back in the swing of things, you're climbing, well, you're, you're, you know, you're up on top of the gaggles every day, you're, you know, you're like, "Yeah, I can, I can win this." Then what do you do?
You know, how do you, how do you, how do you address each day?
Take it, take it day by day. Don't, don't think I can win this, you know? Don't. It's just day by day. It's like, hey, I'm out here with my buddies again today. Let's have one, you know? Um, and then, you know, the the key is, you know, I think, you know, Mitch brought up a really, no compounding mistakes. There were some, you know, some some on launch that I learned stuff from. So, uh, you know, no compounding mistakes. If you do get left behind, just fly as well as you can. I mean, I got left behind one day by 15k, but luckily, so did Donna Zete and Matt Henzie, and so we had a a perfect group to rage back, and we ended up finishing. You know, you crushed that day. I think we were, uh, 10 minutes behind you, but you know, there was only you and Brad, and then the whole rest of the our group. So, you know, flying again, flying the course, flying as good as you can, taking it just, you know, day by day, not not
thinking about the win, but then you know, once I did get in the lead, reeling it back, and you know, so it's, it's what if you crack off good, good flights in the beginning, you can have a good result. You can, you know, coming in the goal one day, uh, you know, I'd let, I could let Mitch go and and and I could slow back down. And so just being conservative sometimes, you know, when, when that called for, so the, the tactics definitely, you know, change a little bit, just like in bike racing or anything. If you have a lead, um, it's really difficult with FDC to be able to do that. And TV, though, because I have no, you have no clue what. For me, I mean, I can't figure out the scoring formula, you know, and we had some problems with ours and they sent it to your, he's like, "Yeah, it's messed up." So I think no one can figure out the scoring formula, um, and that, that's kind of disappointing. I, I hope that they can fix that at some point.
Someone, you know, people smarter than us, so you, um, because that's kind of bogus. People like
verbally, when you're with your friends and stuff, you know, the reason we all love to hang out with you is because you're freaking hysterical.
Oh dude, I'm for sure gonna blow it tomorrow. Uh, is that just for us? Is that just entertainment? Or is that, you know, because when I read like the psychology, Mitch inspired me to like start reading more psychology, and Josh did too. He talked about, you know, that, that, that's how he's become kind of the bot. Is he's, he read all this psychology and, you know, like kind of the bell court like bringing it thing like that. The psychology, the optimistic self-talk, you're the opposite of that. You're always like, "Yeah, I'm definitely gonna fuck it up." Is that just for our entertainment? Is that what actually, what's going through your head, or I
Don't know, I've never thought of it. Uh, maybe I do that subconsciously. No, I mean, I think, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I definitely like myself less than most people. Um, and, uh, and so yeah, I don't know. And like I said, I am a loser, and so, you know, I've blown leads before, so I'm like, "Oh god, but no, you're right, I should stop doing that." I mean, really, I should. It's, I mean, and and the truth is, when I'm up raging, I'm, and I, and I know I'm having one. I know I'm having one, like, I know when I'm in the zone, so that's kind of cool. So, you know, but when I'm standing on the ground talking shit, I'm not gonna be like, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna fuck people up tomorrow." You know, I have no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow, you know.
yeah um
Because that's the truth to me, but what I so to me, it's more about being truthful versus self-fulfilling. Because when I'm up there and I'm like, well, I'm on one, I go, "Yeah, you know that's what I..." You'll see, I'll push out, I'll leave, I don't care who's with me, you know? Um, but but I could, but so I do know when I'm in the zone, I'm not gonna be like, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna," you know? And so that's kind of cool. Is there
Anything you can do to get in the time, I mean...
How could we know? It's like, you like, you said, you know, paragliding, like I bombed out one day being stupid. I, I wasn't, again, I wasn't sleeping that great, and you know, luckily that night I got a great night's sleep, but I was like, this is the best I felt all comp. It was day seven, you know, so yeah, I don't know, that's interesting to think. I've never thought about it, but I'll, I'll take that back and think about that, well.
I mean, it's—it—it's interesting because I've—I've been trying to, you know, they just talk about in these—in these books, and this is a lot on this like self-help kick, God forbid it's not like that. It's more just, I've been reading this guy that was a shooter and, uh, you know, he just wasn't an athlete, couldn't, you know, was last to get picked on the baseball team and basketball team and everything, track and field. His dad was an athlete and so really bummed him out, and he—he just became one of the best shooters in the world, you know, three pre-Olympics and all this stuff. And it was just from training, but also he has this kind of mental approach of just, you've got to talk yourself into being a winner. You've got to talk yourself into being like, I'm good at this. And I think that's what Mitch brought up at the the thing, and so I've I'm, but I'm curious because in paragliding, you know, you have these, like you said, it's it's it's manic, um, and and I'm wondering what your self-talk was that week, and especially as the week went on, um, uh, you know, was there, like you said, you you know, you were disciplined about your strategy, like, "Hey, okay, now I don't need to win every day."
Was just, "Don't let anybody get too far out," you know? I need to be disciplined now. But was there... was there other self-talk that was going on? That was like, like I'm talking about during the comp, like once you've launched after the start, um...
Yeah, after the start, I think, um, well, every, you know, for me, a competition is, is about getting, if I'm doing it well, I'm in a really good routine, you know? Um, so, you know, you notice I showed up every day, right, in the morning at a certain time, because for me, it's all about a routine. So, it's, I, you know, I get into this routine of, and that's the groundhog day, and that's the beauty of it, where, you know, I'll have my coffee at the same time in the morning. Usually, I like to work for two hours before the competition, so that I can feel like, okay, you should, you know, I've done with my work for the day, at least to hold it off, uh, and then come meet everyone, and then, um, and then just try to keep keeping the energy low there, uh, and then, you know, like to launch, so that there's a routine, it happens the same every day, and that to me is really
Uh, in terms of keeping my energy where it should be at the times it should be, uh, and then on launch, those talks are a little distracting actually. Um, but even on launch, they changed the—the launch thing once, I don't know if you remember that, where they put the board out one day so that everybody can program during the, and that's the day I sunk out was because then I felt like I—I mean, that's not the reason why. I feel like you're off the back, I was off the back the whole time. I—I didn't my launch without my instruments on. I want you know, like, I was like, you know, and I felt like people got ahead of me. So I do think that there's psychology in that, you know? And so whatever I—there also, I just was tired of whether, and I was, you know, day six, uh, I wasn't flying well. But while I'm up there, no, it's, you know, I'm really, I'm just trying to focus on having fun and flying cross country.
And you know, I know that I've flown paragliders cross country and race and more races than most of the people the competition. So, I in terms of experience, I have no excuse, you know? There's no, there's nothing holding back. I have, there's no excuses there. Um, and so then it all just comes down to having fun. And if I have fun, I feel like I can win anywhere, you know? Uh, and and so to me, I guess it's that's just focusing on that. But that's why it's so important to deal with all these other things for me, whether it's, you know, the the PTSD or, uh, not having your gear ready or whatever it may be, so that it's worth it for us. I mean, that's the thing. It's like, otherwise, if I'm up there and it's not that fun and I'm kind of stressed and I don't like this, I don't like that, then that balance starts to tip for me in terms of this isn't worth the risk.
The reward isn't worth the risk. It's, it's only when I'm really having fun and I'm like, "Wow, look at the earth. It's, we're up here. What an amazing sport. I can't believe we get to do this." I mean, I guess that's the self-talk that's going through my head, uh, when I'm doing well, uh, and I'm up here with my friends and, oh, how cool, there's Gavin. What's up? You know? And and if, and if you know that, that is to me, then it's because the scales are tipping back. This is totally worth it. I'm worth, this is worth it to me to risk. I, I can mitigate the risk with, with practice and skill. And therefore, I'm stoked to be up here. So I don't know, I ask myself that a lot. And now, flying cross country, I go, "Land, if I'm not happy." You know, I used to just grind it out, or I don't even go launch. I don't even go for launch. Um, I'd go, you know, I'm not—I'm not stoked.
Why would I? I'm just gonna go mountain biking, or I'm gonna do something else. And so, I think being truly honest and listening to your gut, uh, it will make you a better pilot. So all these things—that's the funny part is that it's not just, you know, these foo-foo things; they're actually, this is all performance-driven suggestions. You know, have
You ever noticed, you mentioned flow, and I think this is a common theme with, with, with flying, with human flight these days, and just in life. There's been a lot of research and stuff on Adele Honte, one of my, my guests a few episodes back, talked a lot about flow. If you talk, and I think it's something we've all experienced in flying at certain times, um, you know, certainly I've had days in the X-hops where there's just amazing flow, and other days where you're like, "Yep, there's no flow here, there's zero." Um, how do you have, you ever identified like a way to enter it? Or, you know, you've, you've said either there are days where you're racing, you're just like, "I've got it, I, I have," this other days where it's more struggle. Have you ever noticed like what maybe leads you to that, or what is it, or, or just kind of happened?
Because I, I never have, I've never figured that out. I've never figured out that equation. Like, sometimes it's just going, you know, and other times
It's just going, you know, and other times you're
times, it's like, fuck yeah, I can't find it, yeah.
For me, it's, I think it's routine, you know? Like I was saying, I develop that routine and I don't try to deviate from it, and that gives me my best chance of getting into it. I think too, the key and one of the reasons I did well is because you also need to know when your flow is over. You sometimes, you only get flow for a little bit, and that's fine. Don't, don't be, don't be mad at that. Take that as a bonus, and then kind of just, then I just start bumbling around until I can like get back into a rhythm. Um, but the beautiful thing about competing is you'll have other people to work with you until you get back into it. Yeah. Um, for me, it often takes eating, you know? Just as long as I'm keeping my mind fed, I can stay in a good state. Um, but that's once an hour eating and drinking, eating and drinking. I know you've heard me talk about that incessantly, but I think that's because for me, um, my form of edd, or just my whatever neurochemical composition, it needs, it needs that food.
It needs sugars, um, it needs proteins, uh, in order to stay in a flow, um, or just even in a rhythm, you know? Uh, but I think, I think it's that just like bad decisions compounding each other, I think flow can compound each other. So when you're in it, go have one, you know, enjoy it. Yeah. And so I say, and I think it will perpetuate itself, but you know, like when I, if I get gobbled up by the, by the gaggle nowadays, I'm like, cool, there's all my friends. I guess that was fun, you know? I'm gonna fly with them now. And I think that often you see the newer comp pilots who are doing well as soon as they get gaggled up, you know, gobbled up by the gaggle, they try to push on low. And so that's, that's another kind of psychological switch that's happened in recent years for me, one
Of the things that I'm noticing, um, you know, like on, on Instagram, I see like the best of the best of Chevy and Aaron Durogati and Siegel, and they take a lot of—they're like, you, they take a lot of photos at comps, um, and I'm always like, I used to look at that and go, "God, I can't imagine." You know, I'm focused so hard in comps and I'm thinking so much and I'm strategizing so much and I, you know, and I often like, when I fly, I'm like, I'm like, I'm see here, I also eat every hour. And then I go to a comp and I'm like, oh, come on, this is three hours. I don't need to do that. But do you, I think that I've been wrong about that. I think like you're saying when, you know, when you're taking pictures and you're having fun, you relax, you, you're, you're, you're stepping back out of the moment a little bit and you're just enjoying it and therefore you fly better.
Yeah, definitely. And I think there's a, there's a breaking point, but like in photos, for example, I'll take photos, you know, when I'm, you know, I could begin before the starts, an hour and a half before the start. It gives me something to do, you know, um, and so I'll do it then. Yeah. Well, it gives you a shift and then I go, okay, I put it away now. This is what I'm doing more of now. Okay. Now it's time to put it away and dive into what, you know, like the real, what I need to be doing. And so it also just gives me a break, you know? Um, and then some days it's like, yeah, I'm not really feeling it. You're going to pull it out, you know? So, uh, yeah, I don't know. I think it, I think are good. I do believe photography could be an interesting tool for advanced pilots to give yourself breaks and be able to, you know, come out the other side, uh, having like kind of refreshed, you know?
And
I think that, I think that's what that eating does as well, or even just being, you know, all these things are just little things where you're like, okay, you know what, actually blowing this glide a tiny bit, it's not going to be that big a deal. You know, it's going to make me more comfortable. I'm going to be better prepared, you know, and all that, you know, you kind of learn that you just don't need to be hammering all the time.
Well, I'm, I'm, my climbing suffers if I'm not eating. Yeah, I can tell. I, I, I know for sure. Cause as soon as I eat, I'm like, yep, back here, you know, good. Now I'm feeling good again. Uh, so it's kind of funny. I, I even like, Oh, I forgot to eat. Cause I kept climbing like shit. I can tell, you know? So I, I think there's a lot to it. So yeah. Why would you, you know, this is just like any race and these are these rhythms, these, these patterns, you know, it's like, yeah, if you train one way, you train at home, you eat once an hour. When you go to the race, eat once an hour, even if it's an hour long, you know?
What did you learn from? I learned from Donizetti. That was really cool for all of us. I know Mitch made a bunch of comments about like him turning way wider and just, he was at, Donizetti was out climbing him all the time. So Mitch was like, I got to figure this out. That was really, that was really cool and useful for all of us because we all fly with all of us all the time. And it was really neat to have somebody from a different continent. Who's really awesome. Who has flown as far as the farthest flight that's ever been done. Um, just total badass. What's that? Yeah. Sorry. Twice. Twice. Yeah. Twice. Exactly.
Um, yeah.
What? 564. That's, that's not bad. Um, what did you, what did you learn from him? Cause you guys were, were having a killer battle right till the end, but.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, for me, it was just a real joy to fly with him. I mean, that's the thing. The beauty of this sport is in competitions at the top level, I am thrilled to fly with that. Donizetti was a true joy to fly with him and it was cool to watch him. Um, you know, basically. Yeah. And, you know, we would be, we would be pointing and helping each other and, um, and I don't know if you guys realize that, but yeah, generally we were both helping each other as much as possible. Yeah. And that's what, you know, a lot of people do. It's like, Hey, look, it's, we're all in this together to the last 15 K you know, and the faster that we can rally through here and get ahead of the next pack, the better. So, you know, so he was, he was just a real pleasure to fly with because he has so much experience flying in a, in a, um, in a, in a joint manner with other people for, to, to reach success.
So, um, it's just, I'm really, I'm psyched that we have someone else, uh, in our community. It's really fun to be in a position, you know, where we're always welcoming people, um, in the sense that it's never overcrowded in the U S for great pilots. So anybody that wants to come race with us, please come over. We'll show you a real good time.
Yeah. Well talking about a real good time and a real good race and a real good location. Uh, what are your takeaways from the rat race going into Chelan? Is there, is there more pressure? Is there less pressure? Is there, are you just stuck? Are you just stuck? Are you just soaked? Um, you know, what, what, what will you take away from, you know, what will you bring to that race that, uh, that came out of the rat race?
Yeah. You know, clean slate, I think. Um, I mean, I feel a little better. I mean, coming back from, uh, from the world cup, I was like, wow, you know, maybe this is over. I'll never race well again. I mean, obviously those, these thoughts go through your head. Um, not that that's going to be the end all for my life and how I'll be noted at what I'm going. But, um, you know, you think about that, you're like, oh man, we're going to have to, we're going to, this is over, you know, like that's last place is, you know, while it's really funny and, and, and I, I am proud because it's very difficult to really come in last place. Um, and be trying, you know, not be injured. Uh, uh, you know, uh, yeah, it's the same. It can happen again. You know, that's the thing with paragliding where you think, you know, if you look at the competition, it's very few people, once the wings were all equal, have dominated a paragliding competition.
Sure. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
I mean, it's a Superfinal last year after a one year. But Aaron won twice. And then last year I think he was in the eighties, you know, it's just, it's a pair. Yeah. You know, it
goes. Yeah. So no, I'm just thrilled for Chelan. That's my favorite place in the world to race. And so, um, um, yeah, I'm just psyched to be there with all you guys and Nate's come in and, you know, we're gonna have a great group of people, Mickey Siegel and her show an hour and it'll just be, you know, I'm just really enjoying more and more that these races, we get to fly with my friends, you know, I get to fly with my friends and that I don't get to fly with anybody, uh, anymore, you know, hardly. I live. Um, and so it's just a real great opportunity to be in a cool place, fly with my friends. So that's what I'm taking into it.
Nick, before we sign off, cause there's a ton of good stuff here. You, you, you said that, you know, you had the Kenya thing. Um, and then there were a couple others. Did, do you want to go into those before, before we depart?
No, no. I think, I mean, I think we're, people get the idea. My, my point, you know, and I, and I hope if people can take away from this is that it's okay. So to, to, and, and maybe cause we're so crazy, we even have to say this, you know, I think a lot of us smarter people just have left the sport earlier, you know, once one thing happened. Um, but the fact that we have to, you know, to me, uh, being the hardheaded, you know, kind of crazy dry, you know, paraglider driver that I am, you know, it's okay to, to process and deal with these things. And, and your friends are there for you and talk about it and, and, you know, what, whatever that may be, maybe it's something else, but if you want to increase your performance, you know, and you're not doing it, you're not doing as well as you want to be. I think that you need to look at what's actually truly affecting you and then deal with whatever that is.
So that, that's my takeaway.
Great advice, Nick. Thank you so much, man. This was a really special. I really appreciate it. I can't wait to race with you, dude. Again, in Chelan, it's going to be so fun. I know. And, uh, it was just awesome to watch you rock that thing. That was, that was a really cool thing. That was, I was a witness to something very special there. That was super fun and just a great week of racing. They did an awesome job. Putting that on, but, um, thank you for sharing, uh, all that.
Well, Gavin, thank you. And thank you for this resource. I hear so many pilots all over the world. Grateful for this. This is the biggest educational tool that's, uh, arguably ever been in the sport. So keep it up and, uh, and thank you for working on that global rescue thing. Ushua is now able to offer that to its members. Uh, and a huge part of that is because of you. So, and that's, you know, as you know, I'm a big proponent and all that rescue insurance. So I just want to take a moment. To thank you, uh, Gavin, for all that you do and keep doing it, man. It's, it's, it's really helping. And it's, I think it's making pilot's lives better. So thanks.
That's awesome. Well, it certainly is a pleasure. Thanks, Nick.
All right. See ya.
I hope you enjoyed that. Always fun to hear from Nick. Uh, and that going from zero to hero was, uh, is pretty entertaining. It's going to be fun to race with them here in Chelan. One of the greatest places to race in the world in my mind here in a couple of weeks. But, uh, as always, all we ask for a buck is a buck a show. If you've enjoyed the show or you got something out of it, please let us know. And we'll see you next time. Or if you're just discovering the show, please go back and check out all the many, many, many hours of incredible advice. Like the show was from Nick Greece, uh, Russ Ogden and Will Gadd and Nate scales and Cedar Wright. And there's just, there's some terrific content there. So, uh, go back and check those out. And, and yet if, if you can't afford it, we totally understand there's, there are many ways to support the show. You can blog about it. You can share it on Facebook or Instagram or however you talk to your friends.
You can talk about it on the way up to launch. That's what I just heard. I heard at the rat race, people are doing a lot of is, you know, listening to the podcast and then have just having discussions on the way up. Like, Hey, what'd you think about this? Did you agree with that? Um, that's all very cool as well. So it's awesome that the word is spreading. So it's so fantastic that so many people are listening. It's a real joy to bring to you. Uh, you can find other ways to support the show at the website cloudbasemayhem.com and just click on support and you can do it on a one-time basis through PayPal, or you can sign up through Patreon and be rewarded for doing so, or you can kind of just set up a show. So, uh, it wouldn't be possible without you, our listeners making this possible. So thank you very much. And we'll see you on the next show. Cheers.