But I have this opinion that if you do once SIV training, you will try to do some of these moves, but you will never be able to master them. You will never be able to do it on your own easily and without fear. So it does sometimes make the people have even more fear because they try to do a stall during SIV trainings, but it didn't always work out well. And they might have a fear to encounter in the real life. So I think that when I started training, somebody told me, oh, you have to do two, three hundred full stalls. And I was like looking at him and wondering, well, I have 50 and I feel I control it. But then I did 300 and I was like, oh, this guy was right.
That was Ander Prashaska recounting how important it is to work on things like stalls and not just doing it in one SIV, but doing it hundreds and hundreds of times. And that's just one little niblet of great knowledge we've got for you in this episode of the Cloudbase Mayhem. Andra is a fantastic pilot. He goes, he's switchy. Like I like to say, he goes both ways. He just set the world record for the Esfera. So he's a super dialed in acro pilot, competitive acro pilot, but he's also very skilled cross country pilot. I was just flying with him down in Mexico at the Monarca. And I actually met Andra. Andra training with Aaron Durogati last May near Aaron's hometown of Murano.
Aaron was on a previous episode of the podcast, but I got I was really lucky to be able to hook up with these guys for a couple of days and train in his neck of the woods. Andra has been Aaron's supporter in the last two editions of the X-Alps and will be this summer at the X-Pyr and again in 2017 for their third go at the X-Alps. So this is a really cool talk. We talk a lot about safety and how he got into acro. Because he didn't feel like his approach in cross country was putting him in some dicey situations and he wanted to learn how to control his wing better. So there's some really valuable stuff. Right before we get into it, just a few logistical things. Thank you all again for your generous donations. It's really, I really appreciate that. They go a long ways to making this whole podcast viable.
We don't fund things with sponsorship. We just do it through your good dollars there. So thank you very much. I appreciate that. I've also posted a thing about a week ago on Facebook. I'm putting together kind of we're going to do kind of an in-between cast because as these podcasts get out to more and more people, I'm starting to take a lot of questions through email and that kind of thing. And I've built up this list. And so if you have anything you want to ask me about the X-Alps or about training or about I've been writing lately, I'm just started a column for cross country. A lot of different things. I'm certainly no expert. But if you have any questions for me on sponsorship or whatever, you ask me anything you want, if you're curious about any things we're talking about here on the podcast or just with me or things you haven't seen answered, then shoot me an email through cloudbasemayhem.com or hook up with me on Facebook and send it to me there.
And at some point here, I'll put out this kind of in-between cast and I'll just answer all of your questions. So feel free to reach out. So, yeah, Andra Proshaska, let's get on with the next episode. I think you're going to enjoy this. And see you on the other side. Cheers.
Andra, buddy, it is fantastic to talk to you. Welcome to the Cloudbase Mayhem. Where are you in the world right now?
Hi, Gavin. It's nice to have this interview with you. I'm on the Canary Islands on a little hidden island called El Hierro. I'm just in the preparation phase for this season. So doing a lot of acro. And, yeah. It's great. It's always this time of the year that I come here to enjoy the great conditions for flying that are on offer here.
And, you know, you've got a really interesting history. In my experience, people kind of go either acro or cross country. But you and I were just flying around together down in the sky at the Monarca in Mexico. And at the same time, you were out and I believe you just broke the Esfera world record. For the listeners that don't know what the Esfera is, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Andra, but it's an off-axis infinity tumble that Pál Takáts created. And you just broke the world record. Is that correct?
Yes. Actually, just before we met, I was having this little project. And you're right. It's a maneuver that is consisting of basically three phases. A rhythmic start. Then you enter infinite. And then you're dropping back down in anti-rhythmic. So basically, it's also a way how to get an infinite through the air. So the rhythmic sudden. And Pal, I think, invented it through basically trying all different things associated with this. And I mean, it's a kind of a physical maneuver. It's, you know, you don't do so many. You know, I did just nine Esferas. It's not a big number. But physically, it feels, because usually the rhythmic, it's like doing some turns of infinite.
So probably altogether, nine Esferas could be more than 150. Around 200 turns of infinite, actually.
Wow. Okay. I didn't know that. Because I was reading your blog. And I watched your video. I would encourage the listeners to check that out online on your website. You know what? First things first. How do you say your last name?
Prochaska. Prochaska. It's actually, in English, it would be Walker. So actually, my name would be like Andrew Walker. But it's so hard to pronounce. It's really, it would be wonderful if I would have it. If I would have an English name. It's, yeah.
That's funny. Yeah. And I read from your, on the blog. And when I watched that video, you said it was really exhausting. And I know the infinity puts you through a lot of G-force. But why is the Esfera so exhausting compared to the infinity?
Well, it's not more or less exhausting. It's like a different kind of like physical. I mean. There's a lot of force. And I was speaking with a few people that are learning rhythmic and anti-rhythmic. And it's a lot of G-force that is asymmetric. So it's also a lot more physical. Because once you enter the infinite. And you do, let's say, an infinite record. You're kind of, let's say, centered. And you're doing just a few corrections to keep it going. I mean, of course, it's very physical to do as many as Horacio did. I mean. It's impressive how many he managed. But, you know, when you have to do the Esferas. You always have to do a rhythmic to go up.
And then you always have a lot more physical force. And it's kind of more demanding for some parts of the body. But, of course, like maybe doing 50 of them would be super extreme.
What is the maximum for the infinite right now? And who holds that record?
So. Actually, the infinite record was done by Horacio. I think it's like 586 turns. So it's an incredible feat what he did there. And he had to actually jump from a helicopter pretty high. It will be very hard for anybody to do more turns. Or get this record really broken. I mean, the Esfera is different. So if somebody went that high like Horacio did for his record. It would be pretty interesting. Probably you would get like 10. Well, let me. 9 is for 2000 meters. So you would be able to do probably like 30 Esferas, I guess.
Oh, wow. So it's a much more involved maneuver.
30 Esferas. I can't really imagine. Like that's going to be pretty insane. I mean, I'm sure that it's possible to somehow do it. Maybe like 15. I don't really know. I mean, like for me, 9 was already like. All right. Enough. Enough to tell you the truth.
That was maxing out. Okay. So I'm super fascinated to learn about where do you come to this? How did you come to this point? What's your history? And why the lean towards acro? What was the catalyst that got you into flight?
I think this is an interesting story because I never really wanted to. I never really wanted to focus or do acro. So when I started flying, I saw some acro videos, but I was like, okay, they exist. But nothing really that was inspiring me to do it on my own. So actually, after doing my first 300 hours of cross country, I experienced some situations which were not as clean. You know? I had two events where I could have hurt myself. And I was always putting back the idea of doing an SIV training because I was doing a really low budget life and I didn't really have enough money to pay for an SIV training.
So I was like, I'm going to do it on my own somehow, but I want to do it above water. And I was always like back and forth. And then after all these hours and this experience, I was like, okay. No, I have to really start doing this training. And I was like, I'm going to do it in winter after this cross season. And I started doing stalls, of course, with some input. I checked a lot on the internet and videos. I had friends around that were doing a lot of acro. And one day it just happened that there was a lot of fresh snow in the valley and no wind because in winter there's very little valley wind. So I said, this is it. I mean, these are the perfect conditions to be safe, to have a safe box.
And even if anything goes wrong and I have to throw one of the two rescues I had with me, I'm going to be in powder snow. And I mean, I always dreamed about doing it. I mean, in my head, I saw it like millions of times how the stall is going to be and how it's going to work out. And I was really looking forward to the very moment of doing it. And the first one went well and the second one went well. And then in all in all, I've spent like more than seven, eight days in a row every day going, doing ten rotations with a cable car. And I did like two, three hundred stalls within a week or ten days. So it was like a breakthrough. And I got to understand the wing really well. And I mean, it was still wintertime, so I didn't stop there.
And I kind of like started to experiment and trying some deep stalls and helicopters. And all of a sudden then. Kind of the next stage was like, OK, I want to do a helicopter with or be able to do a helicopter with any wing I'm flying. And and that was like the next stage when I kind of dropped totally into Acro. And
when was this and where was this? This
training that I was talking about was in Austria and in the Stubai Valley, which is kind of popular for winter flying as well with the Stubai Cup being being there every year in April, I think, or March. And there are pretty good conditions there. I mean, and also in many other places. And I think I did like the first I mean, the basics, all the Acro basics and like the SIV basics I did there in Austria. And then in summer I moved on to Gerlitzen, which is a really nice overwater flying site in Austria as well, which enables like super cheap living with a cheap cable car and overwater flying.
And. Also a great community and a nice, nice camping place with many pilots around. So as I totally, you know, got into Acro all of a sudden without really planning it. And additionally to that, like the summer and spring was really bad for cross country flying, many windy days and a lot of overdeveloping conditions. So it all fit together. And I was basically training winter and the summer. And then the fall. And the second winter in a row, just Acro. And I didn't have almost any cross-flying within almost two years. And that was also the reason why I really got back into cross-flying, because I was like, OK, I was really missing it.
And I love flying cross country. And after two and a half years, I was searching for also possibilities to fly cross on the good days. And you can really mix it well if you're in a good place. So
that's interesting. So you really identified early on. You were a cross country pilot. You got about 300 hours. And then you identified that, wait a minute, to do this safely, I really need to learn Acro. And that kind of became your more or less your thing. What year was that? When did you learn?
You mean Acro? No, when you first started. So I started flying in 2010. Yeah, that was my first flights. Like. Because, I mean, I didn't really get instructor, like in a, I didn't really get instruction course. I got a glider from my friend. And I was kiting a lot before I started paragliding. And the reason why I started paragliding was that somehow I started to fly a little bit more with the kite. And I thought, well, hang on a minute. I mean, I basically should be doing paragliding instead of kiting, because I really love the part of flying in kiting. So I did my own course because I just basically swam. I switched a kite for a paraglide. And I did like 20, 30, 40 hours of ground handling and started to do little flights from a small training hill.
And then I started to do bigger flights. And, I mean, I, after two, three months, I wanted to fly legally and have insurance. So that was the time when I really started to search for a school that would kind of like do a quick course with me because I was flying. And I just wanted to get kind of like briefed maybe on some, I don't know. Things about the air spaces and stuff that I didn't really know about and get a license quickly. And then 2011, over winter, I did some flying. In 2011, I did this big cross country season with the 300 flying hours. And then end of, I mean, 2012, in the winter, I did this full-sail training. And then it was like 2012 summer, the bigger one above water where I learned infinite.
And 2013 winter where I kind of like polished a lot of the moves. And 2013 summer, basically second acro summer, I moved to Organia, which was for sure a breakthrough because it's a great place for training above ground, of course. But making you fly a lot of hours acro in a row. And that was basically like this two-year super intensive adventure, which finished up 2013 autumn. When I went there. I went to Chile to do a lot of ground training, like more kind of waga style, which gives you a lot of feeling for the glider as well and helped me a lot in many aspects. And yeah, it was kind of like this two and a half years of intense acro stuff.
In all that time, André, did you ever have an accident?
I mean, I didn't have any accidents. I told you like during cross country, like 2011 at the beginning. I did like really well. I did like, I don't know, like six, seven hundred plus kilometer triangles and 160K one-way distance in the Alps. I was, I mean, for my first season and I did a lot of hours. I felt really comfy. I was controlling the glider, but because I wasn't really there with all the experience and everything. I had like these two moments where I could have really hurt myself and it all finished well. But maybe you were asking about accidents in acro. And I mean, I didn't have any, to be honest with you. I see acro as actually much safer discipline to practice because if it's done right and you're a little bit smart, you know, you do step by step.
You know, you ask some friends, you don't jump on an acro wing, small one right away from the beginning, you know. And you go above water if you really have the possibility. So usually you have like hundreds of meters. Like thousands of feet almost under your ass. And it's not like flying, you know, half speed bar, like 50 meters from a ridge, which, you know, I mean, you can do the mathematics, you know. Even if you're the best pilot, things can go wrong. And in acro, you still have like two, three rescues. And additionally, you're ready to deal with a situation that might happen because you're training acro at that moment. And you have a lot of altitude.
That you're always calculating with. So, I mean, you know, it's pretty safe and it gives you a nice touch for the glider and a lot of good experience. You
hit on something that I think is really important. We're often commenting about in cross country that, you know, people that haven't had SIV training or that don't do acro training, I feel, are really taking huge risks with their lives even if they don't know it. It sounds like it. It sounds like you identified that really early and you almost got into the training on your own. But how would you, what would you, what advice would you give for kind of lower hours pilots or people that hear this podcast and want to get out and get into acro? How would you advise them to do it? What's the best way to approach acro training and why? At
the beginning, you know, many people have fears from all this. I mean, that's understandable. But on the other hand, they might get fears from flying cross country and, I mean, they might have fears also from having a bad situation happening to them in cross country, which is the big problem. Because if you're under stress, you know, you're never going to react well. But to get back to your question, I think it's really nice if you do, if you're not really this kind of like a person that has the… Yeah. …the possibility to try and do some steps on your own, which not many people maybe have. It's good to get SIV, like you said, with an instructor and there are many possibilities around.
Just to see if you can, you know, do at least this basic course at first and then maybe you can continue on your own, you know. You know, I have this kind of opinion and maybe many people will not like it. Or many SIV trainers will not like it. Or maybe they will like it. I don't know. But I have this opinion that if you do once SIV training, it will… You will try to do some of these moves but you will never be able to master them, you know. You will never be able to, you know, do it on your own easily and without fear. So it does sometimes make the people have even more fear because they try to do a stall during SIV trainings.
Yeah. But it didn't always work out well and they might have a fear to encounter in the real life. So I think the… When I started training, somebody told me, oh, you have to do 200, 300 full stalls. And I was like looking at him and wondering, well, I have 50 and I feel I control it. But then I did 300 and I was like, oh, this guy was right because now I can do it with any glider. And I, you know, it's something that you can't really describe. It's also the confidence, you know. And with every stall, you need to deal with a different exit, asymmetric exit like this shooting, that shooting. And I think the important thing is to do not only once SIV trainings. I mean the really good pilots which are flying PWC comps, I mean they do SIV trainings when they get a new wing or they go do SIV trainings when every year like an avalanche course for people that go in the back.
You know, like country skiing, you know. So you want to keep current and you want to do this on your own because if somebody has one SIV training and I come to him and I tell him, okay, now go there out in the valley with 1,000 meters and do a stall on the wing that you're flying now, he might not be able to do it, you know.
I'm really glad you said that. In 2012, I had done a few SIVs at that point and I went out to do some acro training with a friend of Jockey's. Jockey had a guy in that was… I forget his name now. It's embarrassing that I can't remember his name but he was there to just do some acro training with me. But most of the people in the class were there to do an SIV and it was so funny to watch. You know, it's the buildup. You do all those small things and it builds up to the last day when everybody's got to do their full stalls and that day everybody's just silent. That morning, you know, when they're getting the briefing from Jockey and everybody's so scared and they're so nervous. And, you know, to me, it's like… You really shouldn't be flying cross country until your stalls are like launching.
There should be a non-event. It should just be something you don't even think about. It's just… It's automatic response. It's fun. It's not scary. It doesn't get your heart rate up and that you can only do that from repetition. Like you say, you know, 300 times. And I'd be curious. I didn't know that you'd only been flying since 2010. You've had some amazing success. Would you credit that? You know, you were saying you're flying 200 to 300 hours a year, maybe more. But even that, you've had a lot of success. You know, there are not a lot of people flying those kind of hours. But what would you credit your success to? Is it dedication? Is it talent? Some kind of combination?
I think it's a combination. I mean, over the time, you know… I mean, now I'm 30. So I'm getting to know myself as like my personality and my person as general. And I see that somehow I'm kind of like better with stuff that is like hand-managed, you know, or like all the stuff that I can kind of do with my hands. I'm a little bit more talented. And also, I'm an Arab person. Like I don't feel so comfortable in work. I don't like water, for example. So water sports are really much harder for me. But in general, I think, you know, nobody, even the most talented person, will never be able to get really good if he doesn't put a lot of dedication in it.
And tell me about the crossover back to… So you and I met this last spring when we were training together near Murano for the ex-Alps with Aaron Durogati. You were his supporter this year. You were also his supporter in 2012. I believe you're going to be his supporter this summer at the Ex-Pyr. Tell me about that relationship, how that happened. And also, you know, one of the really interesting things, I think, about your team is that you often launch during the race as well with Aaron. And you guys kind of fly together. Obviously, that's a real… That's a huge benefit for Aaron. But also, you know, I've seen you fly cross country in the Monarca. You're a very skilled cross country pilot.
Can you talk a little bit more about both that team, that combination, working with Aaron, but also, you know, what's kind of your passion now? Is it more acro or is it more cross country?
Oh, well, that's many different questions. I'll try to go step by step. I mean, the passion, I love both, you know. It's like when I do a week or two of cross, I'm always thinking, you know, I'm going to be really happy to do, like, a few acro moves. And actually, in the end, like, I do some acro with a cross wing. I always try to fly a wing that is doing at least the basic stuff, you know, so I can, you know, do some helicopters. And it's also giving me the touch for the cross wing, so I really like to have a nice sustained deep stall with the wing and tail slide and full stall the cross country wing as well. So I always… I mean, I do, you know, let's say before a task, if there's a chance I go out a little bit to use the altitude and I do a stall or I do a helicopter, because this always keeps you to touch.
I mean, even if you are the best acro pilot and you will not fly for a few months or years, you will still keep your skills to a certain level, but you will not have the muscle memory at such a high level and the confidence. So, you know, it's always a mix of muscle memory and your mental, like, awareness, if you really think you can do it and, you know, so many things are influenced just with the pure mind. If you always… If you are such a person that you always say, I can do it, great. But it's also good to have this training because this keeps you, like, have the feel that you can do it. So I love both, and cross country for me is… has always been from the very first moment a great way to see the nature and also like to travel some distance and explore the mountains, and I love mountains.
So it's also the reason why I got into this X-Alps thing. I mean, I was always doing hike and fly and I always loved the idea of hiking up and flying down or even doing cross country. And I never thought actually I'm going to be somehow involved in this race because I would love to cross the Alps on my own, but I don't think part of the race because it's just a little bit… too extreme the race. But I met Aaron 2013 actually. Was it that… No, 2012 actually in summer when I was doing training and I was at the phase of learning Infinite and he came to the same place and he was really motivated to learn Infinite. So he was there and we were kind of…
I just passed the phase. I understood what I should be doing, and he was still struggling with a few parts, and I was really happy to go over his video footage and give him some insights from my training, and we had really good vibes, and his girlfriend back then was… or it's still the same girlfriend, but his girlfriend was a friend of mine and so when they were going for X-Alps and they got nominated,
they were together as a team. So he and Renata. So… But the thing is that just before the race, like three, four, five months before the race, they changed the rules and they enabled one more supporter and at that time he gave me a call and he was like, oh, you think you would be interested in doing it with us and I think you would fit in the team well. So I said, yeah, why not? I mean, I'm up for it. I mean, I felt it was like a great way how to experience the race and this crossing without having to do it on my own, you know.
And you guys… You guys did really well coming out of the race by the whole shot. You hit seventh in 2013 when the weather was fantastic and really good flying. I know that you had a really horrible day where you made almost no progress, really tough day where you had some damage to the wing and then a little bit better even this year you were sixth in I think more challenging weather and flying and stuff. Given that Aaron is, you know, former world champion, obviously really, really amazing pilot, what do you feel like is going right for you guys and what's holding you back from winning?
I mean, I will maybe, before I answer this question, I'll just say that because you mentioned in the last one that we're flying together, like the first year we didn't really fly that much together because first of all, it was illegal, I mean. So we, I mean, Aaron is very straight with the rules and he's really taking care of all little aspects and air spaces and all the stuff that can influence the race. So in the first race I was usually doing a lot of hiking like even last race but I was usually having also a very easy glider. I was flying a Gin Yeti so that didn't even give me the possibility to fly with him because of course the performance difference is incredible
and I usually took a lot of things for him up like backup shoes, food, water and also nice to hike together two people for navigation and talk and just better to be two. And I would fly down back to the car and I would stay in the car and then maybe in the next part just hike again with him up. For the second race what changed was that
Basically, we were allowed just one supporter again like 2015. Last year was just one supporter, but what they took out of the rules is that there was—it was possible that anybody could be helping you, because in the past the rules said that there is nobody that is allowed to give you any kind of support or help outside of the two supporters. And therefore, what happened was that the teams got really pretty big. I remember, I think Antoine Girard had like six or seven or eight people helping him; like, it was incredible big teams. And we didn't really plan on changing the strategy much if you compare to the first year. We didn't really plan to change the strategy; we wanted to keep it very similar to 2013.
And we did make again a team of two supporters, even though one was official and the other one was kind of like helping, but I mean the same like 2013, but we had—we didn't have like hyper. I mean, we actually, what we did have, we had the Yeti glider, which I was thinking I'm going to be flying a lot, but we also took the a backup wing for Aron, which was, which was then the one that I was using during the race for some flying. I mean, I think I did like 40, 45 hours of flying during the race, actually. You know, during the race, we found out that there are so many teams having like, like flying supporters, so to say, like sometimes even two, two, three people flying, you know, with the athlete.
We were like, "Oh my gosh, I mean, for sure this is helpful. Like, let's see if we can do it as well." And Renata was also—that was not part of the race this time. She was around a lot and she wanted to help us a lot, so all of a sudden, she became a fourth supporter. She was driving the car. With Matthias, they were taking care of all the food and driving, and basically me and Aron, we were doing all the hiking and a lot of flying. And all of a sudden, it turned out to be totally different than we planned. I think it was an interesting aspect. I mean, it for sure, it does help for the athlete if there is somebody flying around; it helps a lot, at least in the days when you're not really sure when you can take off, at what time is it working already.
And also, when you fly together, it's nice, it's emotional. And there are a lot of people flying around; it's not like all us two. There's a lot of other athletes nowadays, all the competitors, they are such a high level that you know, it's hard to really separate. So I mean, there were many times that me and Aron, we were flying with three, four other people. There was like four athletes together. Plus me, plus each of them had also flying support. It was like a group of eight people sometimes. It was crazy, and it was like really funny. So, I mean, in general, in the end, the thing is, it's really, really hard to kind of like keep on. Like, you would have to be like two people
flying at super same level all the time if you would like to keep up, like, all the time together. So, not always it's working like that because, of course, like, if I get a little bit behind, he's not going to wait for me, of course. So, either I have to really come with some smart line, you know, to catch up, which was sometimes the case, or if I get a thermal and I'm, you know, a little bit in front, I come back, you know, I wait, or I go down, you know. I mean, it's a pretty challenging task, and we did some really beautiful flights. We did some flights where we were at the beginning together, but then we separated, and I flew like four or five hours, totally different line than he did, and we met up again at one point sometimes.
So, it was really, really interesting experience, and I mean, I Really, really grateful for this for the 2015 year, because I could fly in the same conditions like they did, and it was pretty harsh, harsh flying conditions. What
Would you, what would you change? What have you guys learned the two times as a team? I imagine you're already probably plotting strategy and everything for the next one, and you'll be doing the X period this summer, which will be good training as well. But if you guys identified things that you need to, to do better, or is it more just luck? Or, you know, how do you, how do you make less mistakes? I guess, yeah.
I mean, there's always many things to work on and change. I mean, we all wish we could fly and and do the race in such an amazing pace like Chrigel does every year. It's really, he is doing an amazing job. And I mean, for sure, we identify, always we identify like things that we can work on. Last year, like 2015 edition, what really failed on us was the the telephone that we got from the organization and the internet coverage. And internet is such a such a crazily vital element of the race. Like, it's amazing how dependent, you know, we are because, of course, for example, if the supporter doesn't have internet, I don't have a clue where Aaron is and I can't really come and help him or or talk to him or talk with him and
It's, it's really alpha omega of the whole thing, you know? So this really failed on us, and we were thinking about getting satellite internet for the next edition as one little thing, like having at least one gig of satellite internet for those extreme situations, no matter what it's gonna cost. And I mean, on the, on the physical side, I think Aaron is really on the top top of the whole pack, I think that. I mean, he's also continuing to train like every day; he was training already one day after the race. So I mean, I think that, that part, I mean, what he was, he was almost diagnosed for overtraining, so I think he knows well how to really manage his training, and he has good, good support, like good trainer.
So I think all this stuff is gonna be always good, so we all need to just work little bit on the... I mean, he needs to work a little bit on the flying side because he's a great comp pilot, but he doesn't have these thousands of hours of cross country and trying different lines like Chrigel does, and this helps a lot during X-Alps. So he's getting so much better; like, this year was much better than the year before, but you know, he's a very aggressive pilot, and when it's strong condition, it's really amazing for him. But you know, X-Alps is also flying from early day till end of the day, so you need to be switching, you know, a little bit the strategy and flying a little bit slower towards the end of the day.
And I think he's... he's getting there; it just needs a little bit more like going out and doing his own cross country in the... in the Alps. And I mean, he already did it. This last autumn, like after X-Alps, he was going doing some random cross country around his home place, so this is exactly what he needs to be doing. And of course, we're working on all these little aspects, and I think, let's see, I mean, we're gonna be for sure strong for 2017, and and we're gonna give our best, and let's see what's gonna happen, yeah.
You guys are a great team, and I'm, you know, really one of the main teams to watch, for sure. I sure had fun training with you, and it's been—it's been really good getting to know both of you as well. I couldn't agree more with your—with your thoughts there, Andra. One of the questions I put out, a thing that I was gonna be speaking to you, one of the questions we got was, you know, when you fly two or three hundred hours a year and you're, you know, you're going to Mexico and now you're in the Canaries and you'll be doing the X-Pyr with—with—with—with Aaron in Spain, is your—are you making a living from paragliding? Or how does all—how does that work? Is it sponsorship? Or is—because it seems like you're pretty much full-time, it's
An interesting situation for me now, I'm—I'm kind of living the sport, but on the other hand, for many people, would be like surviving, because I don't really have like a, you know, a lifestyle of—of people, of normal working people, you know, so
You're, you're, you're living on the cheap.
Yeah, exactly. So I'm really optimizing my costs and my budget. I mean, when I went to Mexico, I didn't really, I didn't really think there's a Superfinal going to happen there. I didn't really plan to fly in the Monarca open. I didn't really plan to to do a a Sphera world record. I didn't plan anything. I just saw a skyline for 350 or 400 bucks, you know, back and forth, and I said, "Okay, let's go to Mexico this year." A few friends of mine that I met in the past, they were like already telling me a few years to come and and share the sky with them. So I mean, the paragliding community actually is the one that that I can thank the most for being able to live this kind of lifestyle.
And of course, like simple life, a few sponsors that is keeping, you know, keeping the whole motor, the whole engine running. And you know, if you really want something there is, it's so so simple, you can get it. But you know, there's always a price to pay. So I mean, I don't have a flat, I don't have a car. I mean, I'm I'm moving all year round. I mean, this time of the year is the best time of the year for me because I'm always renting a flat and I'm staying in my own plan. And so I'm kind of like having more kind of a regular lifestyle throughout the year, you know, like in the summer I probably this year I'm gonna train for the expert, maybe train a little bit accro, and maybe do just some cross country with my backpack and cross the Alps.
You know, I mean, for that, you don't really need to have a car, you know? You don't need a car, you know? You really need a lot of money, you know? In the end, it's, it's like simple choices, but you know, nowadays, once you get used to some kind of a comfort, it's really hard to get out of this comfort zone and and and live a simple life. You know, it's, it's always about the choice, and and it's also not gonna work out for me like this forever. I mean, it might happen that I'm gonna strike a big deal and I'm gonna have like a sponsor with, I don't know, thirty thousand bucks per year or more, and and then it's going to be a different story. But otherwise, it's, I mean, I managed to to travel and I managed to do some shows and I get some invitations every year, so and I always try to have a balance between, between, let's say, cross and accro travels, so I kind of get the similar airtime because now, I mean, probably I'm getting like hundred fifty accro hours and probably like hundred fifty cross hours, so this makes like 300 plus additional 50 to 100 here and there, depends.
So, I mean, like now, like this year or last year, I had like 350, I think, or 400 hours, and and anyways, it's like in the early stages when I was training more accro, I was actually doing more hours. I was always getting towards 500 hours. Now, with with all the cross country, no, actually, with all the comps, with all the accro comps and the accro shows, you know, there's a lot of traveling and very little flying, so it's actually taking like 100, 150 hours out of the whole total, actually let
me, I'll ask you a question that you don't have to answer, but I think people would find this pretty interesting. What, what do you think you spend in a year on your, on your flying, on your life, but
when I was doing the The Acro training phase, when I was really dedicated to Acro, I think I was managing a year from 5,000 euros, which is like, let's say, 6,000 bucks. I mean, that's very little money, taking into account I was flying like 500 hours per year. The the key to to be able to do this kind of travelling is to select, let's say, four or five really good flying spots where you can accumulate your hours. Let's say if you want to do accro, you go to Spain and and then you move to Chile, or like you find some spot for the for the spring, for winter, for summer, and you try to get as consistent spot as possible. So you know, when you get there, you're going to be able to stay there for three months at least, because once you minimize the the traveling between one spot and another, you're going to minimize, of course, your expenses, because the travel expenses are really high.
Secondly, as you're basically dividing your year, let's say, into three, four, five stages, places where, let's say, you're going to be always renting an apartment with some other people that are also into flying, then you don't need to rent your own flat. Wherever you live, if you would think that you're going to be living in this city, you're going to be spending six thousand bucks for the apartment there, plus you're going to be commuting to the flying spot like every weekend, like just this uh commuting to the flying spot back and forth, and weekend flying is going to give you such a high budget with the flat that you can, you know, travel the world and fly non-stop. So, so
Tell me, tell me this then: how do you—that it sounds like this is, you know, a completely year-round pursuit for you? Uh, you know, you're, you're in your sixth, it's going on seventh year of flying. How do you stay—two questions: how do you stay motivated for it? And, and what is it about paragliding that has you so wrapped? Why are you—what's, what's so special about it for you? Well,
Paragliding is a great way how to really be in contact with the nature. I think it's the unique way to to experience like flight because there are many other sports, let's say skydiving or wingsuit flying, which are really, really cool. I am sure about that. I don't have so much experience in this area, but it's a short, short moment and high adrenaline, let's say. And you know, many people, when I fly a tandem with them, they're like, "Wow, this is so calm," you know, and relaxing, because paragliding is relaxing actually. And it's a good mix of, you know, supportive elements and experience and all those chemicals we like, the endorphins and dopamine and certain means. And there's also a bit of adrenaline there as well, I'm sure.
So I think this is the the key why whenever I'm, you know, sometimes you're right that the motivation can drop, but it's really funny that when I get in the air I'm like really, really happy and motivated. But it's, it's not like in when I was starting with paragliding, I was really obsessed, you know? I was like watching the weather and I was like, "Okay, it's flyable, let's go," or when it was not sure it's flyable, I was like spending even two hours like thinking if it is flyable or not, you know, checking the, you know, the mountain from the window, checking the weather stations, the conditions, and thinking, "Maybe it might be possible, maybe not. Should I go? Should I not go?" I don't have these stages anymore. So I have like, I go when it's good and I try to be very efficient because there's also some work to be done, you know, and organize, you know, and do some sponsor stuff or think about projects, make videos, which I like to dedicate my time in.
So I'm, I'm always like, when it's not sure it's not flyable, I'm really happy not to fly because I'm flying so much, you know? I'm like, "Oh, it's okay." I mean, I, I'm happy to have a day rest and and I'm taking all these dull moments, you know, out. And sometimes people feel, "Oh, you're not motivated to go flying, I don't see the passion." It's just because I'm not sure if it's worth it and and another day I'm gonna be up there and I'm gonna be really happy about it. So you know, it's sometimes it's a little bit hard to keep on maintaining the acro part because, you know, if you go and train three hours and you're training all the time the same moves and you are doing this every day, I mean, I'm sure like I'm not flying acro for such a long time like, let's say, Horacio or some guys out there.
And I have big respect to see Horacio to train, like I mean, in Chile I saw him train five, six hours without stop and I was like, "Wow." I mean, I'm impressed after being like six, seven, eight years, I don't know how many, doing this all the time over and over again. I mean, big respect for me. Sometimes, you know, I need—I'm doing it because I like the sportive side, you know? I, I really love to move, so acrobatics is very physical, at least, uh, for, for the abdominals and, and the upper body. It's not so much for the, for the legs, but it's really physical to do, like, training in very good dynamic sites where you can do every six minutes, you can do a two-minute, three-minute run where you're sweating and you're like running a marathon.
So, I mean, here on the Canary Islands, when I train, I go for three hours, and today I took my friend for his first session. He's like, he's now sleeping, you know, because he's totally, he's ruined, so
Andre, when you're—you mentioned you're 30. Do you—do you have, are you living kind of moment to moment right now, or do you have, um, goals in the sport? Or when you look at, say, 35 or 40, I know some
People don't, I've never been one to, very, you know, make plans for the future. But, um, do you have plans for the future and and and goals? I'm
more or less like you, I don't really have like super long-term goals, like where I would like to be, how to say it? I, I don't, I'm not a competitive person actually, so if, if for some people the goal would be to become a world champion or to, to win a gold medal,
Because you know, it's such a—it's such a little thing that, that you know, it's more of a like egoistic thing. So I mean, a few years back, before I started flying, I was, uh, or let's say 10 years back, I was a—I was a city kid, you know? I was—I grew up in Prague and I was—I was, you know, not really supportive, you know? Whenever you're a city kid, like a big, uh, big city kid, let's say. I have the opportunity, I have a few friends who got born in the Alps and I was always dreaming, you know, to—to—to, because I was doing a lot of snowboarding, I was always going to the Alps and I was dreaming to be born there. But when I was like 22, I—or 21, I thought like, I need to change my life, you know?
I wasn't—I don't want to say I wasn't happy, but I—I was thinking a lot about, you know, health, lifestyle, and—and I was thinking, I was, you know, totally transforming the way, how I eat and what I eat. And at that time, I also got to understand that, you know, healthy is not the whole story. You need to move, you know? You can eat total trash, but if you're doing a lot of sports, you know, you're gonna always get—get, you know, like the body's gonna be kind of healthy. But if you eat super healthy food, bio, whatever you want, and you have no movement at all, you're not gonna, you know, be cutting it. So at that time of the—of like being like at that age, I thought, okay, I'm just gonna try to get out of the office.
I started studying university again, I started to do a lot of sports. I moved then for my master's to Innsbruck, to the—in the Alps, and I was like buzzing, you know, having—having a mountain that you can run up, you know, doing like 1800 vertical just behind your doorstep, still living in a city. It was a great change for me and I also could start doing a lot of paragliding there. So this was the motivation and the long-term goal became more like, I want to have a healthy lifestyle, a sportive, and—and in the nature, be as much in connection in nature as possible. This is still my goal and the way how to achieve it is not always easy because, you know, how it is, we need money, we need to, you know, earn the money, we need to work, we need to be in the office.
How to get rid of the office, how to get, you know, how to get out of the office, not sitting in front of the computer like an office rat, like probably 95 percent of the working people have to be doing at this moment. So this was—this was the—the idea and—and I never thought it's going to be through paragliding, doing the sport on, let's say, a professional level in a certain sense, but somehow over the years it became this kind of situation.
Where you know, I have a minimalistic life, but I spend so much time outside and and what I was always dreaming about, probably like eight, ten years ago, is now kind of reality. And and now it's just a question because I'm entering this phase of transformation for sure next year is how to maintain it, how to see if it's possible to have a, let's say, a fixed place where to live, maybe a house or rent whatever, have more of a space, how to if it's possible to bind it with a family, if it's possible to have this kind of a regular environment while still keeping the possibility of being out of the office as much as possible in the nature.
So it's a very thin balance and a very complicated aspect of everybody's life and, for sure, at the moment, it's really hard for me to think about these things because how can I have a serious relationship when I am every, let's say, six, seven, eight, ten weeks in a different place? You know, yeah.
And I would say, as I often do about my life, these are—these are good problems to have, aren't they? You know, it's—it's, uh, you've got plenty of time to figure it out. And, and you know, there's no rush. And I think that—that's where a lot of people, I think, make a mistake when they come out of school is they—they rush because they quote-unquote have to be doing something or should be doing something. And you know, our life is a—is a short journey; we don't have a lot of time. So there's no—there's no reason to, but there's no reason to rush it, you know? Um, Andre, this is—this is fantastic. We're just about in an hour, so if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you, uh, a friend of—uh, a friend of mine who lives in Innsbruck, actually, Max, uh, put me onto this Proust questionnaire that I—that I really—I love.
So I'll ask you a few. These are just kind of like quick-fire questions, uh, you don't have to answer them quickly. You can
We'll sign off. I really appreciate it. I know it's getting very late in the canaries, and I know you want to get to bed. You got some training to do, so um, okay, so here we go. Oh, actually,
i'm super fit
You're ready? You—you pounded your friend, but you're okay? Oh,
Yeah, I mean, I'm training like three and three hours a day, every day, so I don't feel it. I mean, I could train longer, but it's, you know, I, I don't like to over-train as well because once you—that's the problem with acro, that, uh, just that I put this little thing inside that, you know, when you train a lot, you will have a lot of, um, problems with your tendons in your, in your arms, and it can get a little bit, um, I don't think it's because, you know, I'm on this health lifestyle approach, I don't think it's really good long-term to do this. It's like having a tennis arm, you know? So I think similar thing can happen in any sport. I think like hike and fly is probably one of the healthiest ones, but, uh, you know, it's like you want to be training in, in a specifically intelligent way, so to say.
But let's get on with this question; I'm pretty interested in it.
Okay, uh, what is your favorite word? Oh, fuck.
uh nature and
What is your least favorite word? Illness? Oh, good one. What turns you on? Uh, good food. You and me both. What turns you off? I
Think, um, when I feel some kind of a negative thing in the air, you know, when—when even when people have negative energy, that turns me off.
What sound or noise do you love, bird?
singing, you know, and and I love actually the sound of the wing, you know, either in acro or in cross country. That's really like, it's so nice, yeah, I
Agree, uh, and what sound or noise do you hate? Well,
I hate, you know, this kind of a sound of an engine. You know, we have so many cars around, but all these engines are not in a good shape. I don't know if you have any ideas on how to do it. Genes and the smell and everything that, you know, puts me off of it and
What profession other other than your own would you like to attempt, or do I've
always had this had this dream of being able to try a certain job or profession for like two weeks, you know, and just being able able to have the capacity to enter, you know, and do it professionally, but you know, quit, uh, quickly, because I think I would die doing one job for for, uh, you know, a long period of time, but I'd like to try be a commercial airplane pilot. Could be pretty interesting, even though I wouldn't like to work like that, and and what and I mean there, yeah, there are many things to, you know, to to try and
What profession would you definitely not want to do? I
Think you know, garbage men have a pretty tough job, but I think still, a garbage man in my eyes is much better than being a minor. So I think minor is the least, you know what I would, I would never like to do, you know, anything in the in the mind.
Right, it's the opposite of being in the air, isn't it? Okay, then the finally here. If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? Maybe
He's gonna say, "You tried your best, but it wasn't enough." I
like that. Uh, a mutual friend of ours, Vessel, he, he said, "Uh, good job," and I thought, that I thought that was good. He did a good job. Fantastic. That's a good one. And well, yeah, Andre, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. I thank you for your time, uh, thank you for your inspiration and your thoughts and your advice. I think, uh, our listeners are going to get a lot out of that. I really appreciate it. Um, before we sign off, where can people find out more about you and, and how can they reach out to you if they have other questions and that kind of thing, uh,
Thanks as well for having me, and if anybody wants to get in contact with me, I guess there is, uh, there are some contact details on my website. I mean, I'm always reachable on Facebook, and what is your, what is your website? Website is like my name is, uh, www.ondrej minus p-r-o-c-h-a-z-k-a
Great, Andre, thanks very much, buddy. And, uh, we'll see you when we see you. I'm sure I'll be seeing you soon. I'm going to be in Europe and in July, I wish you guys the best of luck for the X-Pyr and for your acro competitions and your cross country flying and, uh, we'll see you soon, buddy. Thank you, thanks.
A lot. See you in the Alps soon, mate. Take care. I
hope you enjoyed that; I certainly did. It's going to be really just interesting to see what, uh, happens in in Andre's career. What an amazing, uh, few years he's had, and I hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you—he hasn't been flying very long, but man, he's already made a mark, uh, setting world records and supporting Aaron and the X-Alps and X-Pyr, and uh, he's certainly getting after it's fun to see. As always, all we ask for is a buck, a show, uh, you can find that link if you want to contribute. Really appreciate it if you do, uh, on the cloudbasedman.com. Any of those, any of the podcasts, it has the link down below the kind of description and of the athlete that I've interviewed. Um, what else? Logistics, uh, yeah. And we're also, I'm doing this in between casts, as I said at the top of the show, uh, answering your questions. So, if you have anything for me that you're, you're not getting out of these podcasts and you want to ask something personal about the X-Alps or training or, uh, flying in Sun Valley or flying at 18,000 feet or whatever.
Go ahead and shoot me that question, and I'll answer it on the next show. until then, fly safe, fly far, and have fun. Cheers.